January 14, 2020 • 10 mins
James Kotecki of C Space Studio speaks with Ricky Ray Butler, CEO, Branded Entertainment Network.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi, I'm James K Techie. You're listening to the C
Space Studio podcast interviews with technology, media and marketing leaders
from CS. Hi, my name is James ko tech E.
You are in the C Space Studio at CS and
joining us is Ricky Ray Butler, the CEO of the
(00:22):
Branded Entertainment Network. Nice to meet you, Hey. Likewise, thank
you for having me. Do you call it Ben or
did you usually go by Ben okay Ben group dot com?
But yeah, we go by Ben. So from what I
understand about Ben, your company is about product placement, which
is something that's been around for a while, but you're
adding artificial intelligence into the mix. So can you just
quickly contextualize what your company does? Absolutely? So, we are
(00:45):
an AI company that specializes in entertainment, and so that
includes product placement, you know, across all the sphot platforms, TV, film,
as well as influencer marketing, whether it's you know, on YouTube, Twitch,
Dot t, the tech talk or Instagram. So I can
use AI to better insert product placement into the content
(01:07):
that I'm selling. You can better use AI to make
more accurate predictions, whether it's impressions, engagements, or actual cells.
And how does this look in practice, is it like
there's a box of cereal and I can change it
to be a different brand depending on who I'm trying
to reach. Well, so when when it comes to like
doing the actual product placement UM, we focus on making
(01:28):
sure to part the storyline that it empowers the content,
not distracts the content or disturbs the content. Where AI
comes in as they can figure out which content is
going to best aligned with for the brand and how
the deepest impact. So this is not like a c
G I fixing it after the fact. I think this
is about a product that's integrated into the story and
(01:48):
even in the writing process or the creation process of
that piece of content, your AI technology was able to say,
if you talk about this, that would be the best
things you're to talk about. From a marketing perspective, Sure
it can help with messaging. You can also help with
which verticals and categories which the target. What's interesting about
AI UM and with entertainment is that entertainment has more
(02:09):
data than any other form of advertising. There's and specifically
around unstructured data. So that's like the creative imaging video audio,
and so when you take years of performance data and entertainment,
and then you utilize AI specifically a form of machine
learning that we call deep learning that you know, really
helps with the unstructured creative data. UM. You take the
(02:32):
historical data, you use use the AI, and then you're
able to make these predictions and then the AI improves
your campaigns month after month. So given that AI is
making I guess specific predictions for every customer of yours
in every instance, are there kind of general high level
rules of thumb that you're able to talk about as
far as what works and what doesn't. When it comes
to cross absolutely everything you've done with creating commercials or
(02:57):
other forms of marketing materials, you have to throw that
out the window. There's a different approach, and it's about,
you know, being inside the content rather than outside the content.
And when you're inside the content, you have to be
authentically a part of the storyline and in a very
empowering way. And it's one of those things where right now,
add avoidance is at an all time high across the
(03:19):
globe of people are avoiding advertising through ad blockers. In
the United States alone, people have an ad blocking strategy
just with television, and so we're seeing tremendous growth as
a company because brands are realizing in order to get
part of this you know s thought battle and and
to get into content that maybe doesn't have you know,
(03:41):
an AD supports, it's not it's not AD supported. Um.
They have to get inside the content. In order to
do it, you have to change your systems and processes,
and you have to use data driven processes and technology
that can help you navigate all the content that is
out there, because there's more content today than ever before.
As a viewer, is it better if a product that
is placed in a piece of content takes me out
(04:03):
of the story for a moment, like Oh, there's a
Ford truck and I just know? Or is it better
to be so subtly integrated that I don't even notice
it? It It is more on a subconscious level. The most
important way to really have a strong placement or integration
is really empowering the content and being a part of
the storyline. So a good example of this is something
(04:23):
that we did, you know in the nineties with Forrest
Gump where he was drinking all those dr peppers. The
dr pepper was a part of the content. Another good
example is Bumblebee and transformers. Um Bumblebee was actually originally
supposed to be a Ford and we came in and
we made it a Camaro. Bumblebee was product placement, but
(04:44):
it was a very important part of the storyline. Are
there certain kinds of brands that you just wouldn't recommend
for that kind of product placement marketing? We know, what
if the brands are relevant in our lives, the relevant
and content producers and directors they're are right now always
in search for different opportunities to be able to make
(05:04):
their content look more real. Having fake products um um
just doesn't work. You have the story and actually it's
more of a distraction. Now, there are other types of
brands where it can be more challenging because you know,
if you have a CpG brand or a spirits brand
or automotive, it's very easy, very I mean, there's gonna
be thousands of opportunities in a series to build integrate.
(05:26):
But you know, with platforms that can be more difficult.
But you know, working with you know, clients like TikTok
or clients like Zillo, you know, we've been able to
see great success having those platforms being a part of storylines.
And so you mentioned that the spot streaming of video
on demand streaming wars and people additional people increasingly subscribing
to platforms that there are no ads on. Do you
(05:48):
imagine a future when some consumers literally never see any
kind of video ads because they just paid up and
they subscribed all these platforms. I believe there's always going
to be some form of advertising, but being inside the
content and doing brand segration is going to be a
much bigger part of the marketing mix um because people,
I mean, the reason why these streaming platforms are exploding
(06:10):
like they are is because people can go and binge
watch their favorite programs without any disturbance and and and
this is not something that's going away. We're staying it
across the board. And that's why, you know, there's a
there's so much content today, and even though there's a
lot of content, there's still demand um for more content
and and and so um. You know the times of
(06:32):
having a commercial before you know a piece of content.
You know, those those days are slowly disappearing. But there's
gonna be other ways to be able to make advertising
more relevant. Are people eventually going to be able to
click on the product placed products inside of content and
buy it because I imagine that would create additional data
for you about whether this is working. Absolutely, and this
is going to be one of the areas that platforms
(06:54):
are gonna have to innovate, UM in order to monetize more.
And it's gonna be through what is being seen within
the content and engaging with it. UM. If you look
at Vander Snatch, like, did you ever watch that on Netflix? Well,
so it's basically is that choose your own adventure UM film.
(07:15):
And they actually used products like cold Cereal that you
have to choose one Cold Cereal or the other. That's
just the beginning of of of that type of engagement
with brands within content. Talking to Ricky ray Butler Branded
Entertainment Network, UM, I know that you also do a
lot of work in influencer marketing. UM. What do you
say to a brand that comes to you and just says,
(07:35):
I want to get into influencer marketing. What's the first
thing you tell them? Well, there's there's a there's a
lot of things that need to be First of all,
you need to be data driven. UM. There's a lot
of people that they just check influencer marketing off and
they say Okay, we did. We worked at a couple
of influencers or a dozen influencers, were good to go. Well,
the truth is, influencers are not just the feature of celebrities.
(07:57):
It is television. These are programs and content is now
being more decentralized today than ever before, and so you
need to have a very data drive approach, utilizing technology
like AI technology, build a monitor all that content and
figure out which content you need to prioritize over others.
And there's also a lot of risks that come with
it with all this content and this diversification. You know,
(08:18):
you have to make sure you're you're you know, you're
you're doing things correctly, You're you're you're following the data,
and that you're avoiding working with influencers that have fake followers.
Is it worth redefining the word celebrity now in money
because I mean when when you know, if you go
back twenty three the area Forrest Gum for example, I mean,
are we ever going to see a movie star with
the level of kind of universal name recognition like Tom
(08:39):
Hanks when now everybody, especially younger people, are watching just
their own personal favorite bloggers or Instagram people or whatever.
But at people outside their network might not know who
they are. Yeah, And you know what's so interesting about this,
It's like there's so many more celebrities or influencers today.
I personally like to call them today content creators. And
(09:00):
one thing it's not even it hasn't really become localized yet.
Localization when it comes to content creators and and celebrities
hasn't really taken off significantly um across all the platforms.
But I think that's the next wave. But also if
you look at these like top tier celebrities from Hollywood
or from from music, like Selena Gomez, she has a
hundred and forty million followers. Imagine if she started to
(09:23):
become more disciplined um with creating content, she would probably
average around fifty million views on on on Instagram. Compare
that to any other TV network or TV channel. Those
numbers are monstrous compared to what is in traditional television.
And so we're gonna be seeing a lot more diversification,
a lot more decentralization. But a lot of these top
tier talent from music as well as Hollywood, they're also
(09:46):
gonna become the future studios and and and there's gonna
be a lot less um relevant central organizations. My intuition
and correct me if I'm wrong, is that despite the
numbers that you're mentioning, if somebody becomes a YouTube star,
they would probably still prefer to be a traditional TV
star or leverage their like web celebrity into that is
(10:08):
sometimes it's not true. There's a lot I know dozens
of different creators and influencers that are offered tv UM
opportunities all the time, and the truth is it just
doesn't pay as well as as what they're doing online
with their own content. And to remember, these are actors
and actresses, influencers and content creators. They are the future
(10:28):
studios and TV channels and so they're not really just
a piece of the puzzle. They come with the entire
puzzle in place, and they're making more money that way. Well, really,
we really appreciate you being here in our studio to
C Space Studio. Hey, thank you so much. I really
appreciate it. Rickory Butler's CEO of Branded Entertainment Network, Thanks
a lot, Thank you appreciate This podcast is in partnership
(10:50):
with the I Heart Podcast Networks
Hi, I'm James K Techie. You're listening to the C
Space Studio podcast interviews with technology, media and marketing leaders
from CS. Hi, my name is James ko tech E.
You are in the C Space Studio at CS and
joining us is Ricky Ray Butler, the CEO of the
(00:22):
Branded Entertainment Network. Nice to meet you, Hey. Likewise, thank
you for having me. Do you call it Ben or
did you usually go by Ben okay Ben group dot com?
But yeah, we go by Ben. So from what I
understand about Ben, your company is about product placement, which
is something that's been around for a while, but you're
adding artificial intelligence into the mix. So can you just
quickly contextualize what your company does? Absolutely? So, we are
(00:45):
an AI company that specializes in entertainment, and so that
includes product placement, you know, across all the sphot platforms, TV, film,
as well as influencer marketing, whether it's you know, on YouTube, Twitch,
Dot t, the tech talk or Instagram. So I can
use AI to better insert product placement into the content
(01:07):
that I'm selling. You can better use AI to make
more accurate predictions, whether it's impressions, engagements, or actual cells.
And how does this look in practice, is it like
there's a box of cereal and I can change it
to be a different brand depending on who I'm trying
to reach. Well, so when when it comes to like
doing the actual product placement UM, we focus on making
(01:28):
sure to part the storyline that it empowers the content,
not distracts the content or disturbs the content. Where AI
comes in as they can figure out which content is
going to best aligned with for the brand and how
the deepest impact. So this is not like a c
G I fixing it after the fact. I think this
is about a product that's integrated into the story and
(01:48):
even in the writing process or the creation process of
that piece of content, your AI technology was able to say,
if you talk about this, that would be the best
things you're to talk about. From a marketing perspective, Sure
it can help with messaging. You can also help with
which verticals and categories which the target. What's interesting about
AI UM and with entertainment is that entertainment has more
(02:09):
data than any other form of advertising. There's and specifically
around unstructured data. So that's like the creative imaging video audio,
and so when you take years of performance data and entertainment,
and then you utilize AI specifically a form of machine
learning that we call deep learning that you know, really
helps with the unstructured creative data. UM. You take the
(02:32):
historical data, you use use the AI, and then you're
able to make these predictions and then the AI improves
your campaigns month after month. So given that AI is
making I guess specific predictions for every customer of yours
in every instance, are there kind of general high level
rules of thumb that you're able to talk about as
far as what works and what doesn't. When it comes
to cross absolutely everything you've done with creating commercials or
(02:57):
other forms of marketing materials, you have to throw that
out the window. There's a different approach, and it's about,
you know, being inside the content rather than outside the content.
And when you're inside the content, you have to be
authentically a part of the storyline and in a very
empowering way. And it's one of those things where right now,
add avoidance is at an all time high across the
(03:19):
globe of people are avoiding advertising through ad blockers. In
the United States alone, people have an ad blocking strategy
just with television, and so we're seeing tremendous growth as
a company because brands are realizing in order to get
part of this you know s thought battle and and
to get into content that maybe doesn't have you know,
(03:41):
an AD supports, it's not it's not AD supported. Um.
They have to get inside the content. In order to
do it, you have to change your systems and processes,
and you have to use data driven processes and technology
that can help you navigate all the content that is
out there, because there's more content today than ever before.
As a viewer, is it better if a product that
is placed in a piece of content takes me out
(04:03):
of the story for a moment, like Oh, there's a
Ford truck and I just know? Or is it better
to be so subtly integrated that I don't even notice
it? It It is more on a subconscious level. The most
important way to really have a strong placement or integration
is really empowering the content and being a part of
the storyline. So a good example of this is something
(04:23):
that we did, you know in the nineties with Forrest
Gump where he was drinking all those dr peppers. The
dr pepper was a part of the content. Another good
example is Bumblebee and transformers. Um Bumblebee was actually originally
supposed to be a Ford and we came in and
we made it a Camaro. Bumblebee was product placement, but
(04:44):
it was a very important part of the storyline. Are
there certain kinds of brands that you just wouldn't recommend
for that kind of product placement marketing? We know, what
if the brands are relevant in our lives, the relevant
and content producers and directors they're are right now always
in search for different opportunities to be able to make
(05:04):
their content look more real. Having fake products um um
just doesn't work. You have the story and actually it's
more of a distraction. Now, there are other types of
brands where it can be more challenging because you know,
if you have a CpG brand or a spirits brand
or automotive, it's very easy, very I mean, there's gonna
be thousands of opportunities in a series to build integrate.
(05:26):
But you know, with platforms that can be more difficult.
But you know, working with you know, clients like TikTok
or clients like Zillo, you know, we've been able to
see great success having those platforms being a part of storylines.
And so you mentioned that the spot streaming of video
on demand streaming wars and people additional people increasingly subscribing
to platforms that there are no ads on. Do you
(05:48):
imagine a future when some consumers literally never see any
kind of video ads because they just paid up and
they subscribed all these platforms. I believe there's always going
to be some form of advertising, but being inside the
content and doing brand segration is going to be a
much bigger part of the marketing mix um because people,
I mean, the reason why these streaming platforms are exploding
(06:10):
like they are is because people can go and binge
watch their favorite programs without any disturbance and and and
this is not something that's going away. We're staying it
across the board. And that's why, you know, there's a
there's so much content today, and even though there's a
lot of content, there's still demand um for more content
and and and so um. You know the times of
(06:32):
having a commercial before you know a piece of content.
You know, those those days are slowly disappearing. But there's
gonna be other ways to be able to make advertising
more relevant. Are people eventually going to be able to
click on the product placed products inside of content and
buy it because I imagine that would create additional data
for you about whether this is working. Absolutely, and this
is going to be one of the areas that platforms
(06:54):
are gonna have to innovate, UM in order to monetize more.
And it's gonna be through what is being seen within
the content and engaging with it. UM. If you look
at Vander Snatch, like, did you ever watch that on Netflix? Well,
so it's basically is that choose your own adventure UM film.
(07:15):
And they actually used products like cold Cereal that you
have to choose one Cold Cereal or the other. That's
just the beginning of of of that type of engagement
with brands within content. Talking to Ricky ray Butler Branded
Entertainment Network, UM, I know that you also do a
lot of work in influencer marketing. UM. What do you
say to a brand that comes to you and just says,
(07:35):
I want to get into influencer marketing. What's the first
thing you tell them? Well, there's there's a there's a
lot of things that need to be First of all,
you need to be data driven. UM. There's a lot
of people that they just check influencer marketing off and
they say Okay, we did. We worked at a couple
of influencers or a dozen influencers, were good to go. Well,
the truth is, influencers are not just the feature of celebrities.
(07:57):
It is television. These are programs and content is now
being more decentralized today than ever before, and so you
need to have a very data drive approach, utilizing technology
like AI technology, build a monitor all that content and
figure out which content you need to prioritize over others.
And there's also a lot of risks that come with
it with all this content and this diversification. You know,
(08:18):
you have to make sure you're you're you know, you're
you're doing things correctly, You're you're you're following the data,
and that you're avoiding working with influencers that have fake followers.
Is it worth redefining the word celebrity now in money
because I mean when when you know, if you go
back twenty three the area Forrest Gum for example, I mean,
are we ever going to see a movie star with
the level of kind of universal name recognition like Tom
(08:39):
Hanks when now everybody, especially younger people, are watching just
their own personal favorite bloggers or Instagram people or whatever.
But at people outside their network might not know who
they are. Yeah, And you know what's so interesting about this,
It's like there's so many more celebrities or influencers today.
I personally like to call them today content creators. And
(09:00):
one thing it's not even it hasn't really become localized yet.
Localization when it comes to content creators and and celebrities
hasn't really taken off significantly um across all the platforms.
But I think that's the next wave. But also if
you look at these like top tier celebrities from Hollywood
or from from music, like Selena Gomez, she has a
hundred and forty million followers. Imagine if she started to
(09:23):
become more disciplined um with creating content, she would probably
average around fifty million views on on on Instagram. Compare
that to any other TV network or TV channel. Those
numbers are monstrous compared to what is in traditional television.
And so we're gonna be seeing a lot more diversification,
a lot more decentralization. But a lot of these top
tier talent from music as well as Hollywood, they're also
(09:46):
gonna become the future studios and and and there's gonna
be a lot less um relevant central organizations. My intuition
and correct me if I'm wrong, is that despite the
numbers that you're mentioning, if somebody becomes a YouTube star,
they would probably still prefer to be a traditional TV
star or leverage their like web celebrity into that is
(10:08):
sometimes it's not true. There's a lot I know dozens
of different creators and influencers that are offered tv UM
opportunities all the time, and the truth is it just
doesn't pay as well as as what they're doing online
with their own content. And to remember, these are actors
and actresses, influencers and content creators. They are the future
(10:28):
studios and TV channels and so they're not really just
a piece of the puzzle. They come with the entire
puzzle in place, and they're making more money that way. Well, really,
we really appreciate you being here in our studio to
C Space Studio. Hey, thank you so much. I really
appreciate it. Rickory Butler's CEO of Branded Entertainment Network, Thanks
a lot, Thank you appreciate This podcast is in partnership
(10:50):
with the I Heart Podcast Networks
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