July 20, 2021 • 53 mins
For the twelfth episode of Charges, Rex brings Jayson Williams on to the show to talk about overcoming tragedies as a child and adult plus overcoming alcohol addiction. Rex & Jayson discuss: When he knew basketball would change his life forever (2:40), overcoming tragedies in his family then playing for St. John's University (6:33), being drafted into the NBA (18:44), if he loved playing basketball & his interests outside of basketball (23:58), committing accidental murder, being charged & going to prison (35:32), his alcohol abuse & creating an adventure rehabilitation center (42:01) & more . This episode is not to be missed!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Charges. That's created by Portalais and Control Media. It's produced
by dB Podcasts in association with I Heart Radio. This
time a former Son's player who you might remember as
t Rex. More video in just a moment, but this
is Rex Chapman's mug shot and we are learning a
lot more about the charge up the charge? Where did
(00:22):
your desire to own guns come from? I have a disease.
That's the only disease. You can go to jail four
if you ever accidentally killer man, It's never the same.
I went to visit and I was there for twenty
seven months. A lot of things changed from them, and
like I said, with our structure came instruction. Jay, you
had an accident. Stop stop man. Welcome to Charges. I'm
(00:50):
your host, Rex Chapman. Today we speak with former NBA
All Star and my longtime friend, Jason Williams. Jason is
a mental giant, but his reputation unfortunately precedes him a
career in life on top as a professional athlete itself
is a blessing, but in an instant it can all
(01:11):
be taken away. He is a man who would make
backpage headlines during his career as a New Jersey Net
but in retirement, as when he made a splash onto
the front page, he has committed the worst mistake a
person can make, costing someone else their life, albeit accidentally.
What is not known is the slew of tragedies he
faced throughout his childhood and how he put his family
(01:34):
onto his broad shoulders time and time again through trials
in court and tribulations with addiction. The road has been long,
but Jason is a testament of resilience and I'm proud
to have him on to tell his story of rebounding
in life and for others today this his charges. Jason,
(01:59):
Welcome to the show. We've known each other for a
long time and I love you, my man. Just wanted
to get that out of the way. I feel like
people know pieces of your story, and you've told me
that you're ready to talk, so let's talk. When was
it clear to you that basketball was gonna be that
thing for you? What age were you and how did
change your life? I believe it or not, Rex, she
(02:21):
you was recruited and uh, you know everybody heard the
Rex Shapman out of New York. We got a lot
of people that played and in that area we had
Derek Coleman, Cherry Mills. Uh, we had Moses story. Uh,
we had Kenny Anderson, Anderson everybody. Yeah, we had everybody,
(02:41):
you know. Uh so I never got invited. It was
a guy named Tom Kachowski. You remember him, like he
was the guy who wrote down if you get four
stars or three stars or five stars and then right,
and that's what how college was recruited you. If you
got a three stars, you were going to the to
five star or four star. He was going Division one,
(03:03):
five star, you was going into the Big East. So
I would kind of manipulate him and said, hey, man,
once he changed that four to five and uh he said, well,
I tell you what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna get
you in the ABC camp. Remember that Sunny VI Carol.
I went up there and I was an invite owner.
I think it was a hundred people to get invited.
(03:24):
I was a hundred and three. Now, Derrick Coleman was
up there. Your buddy was up there. What you tell
us funny story about him? A little later h J. R.
Reid Um. So he came in as a rookie, as
a senior or sophomore, and I was a senior and
I just said, you know what, I'm gonna let it
have it here. You know, I'm just going I'm gonna play.
(03:46):
I'm a hoop boy. They had some orange uniforms and
gave us free sneakers. First time I ever got free sneakers.
So I went down to this camp and I had
a move that goes behind the back and and just
lay it up and I must have averaged third five points.
And I was just remember it was like the movies.
Everybody run into the phone and I had not one.
(04:06):
I did have a letter, uh, and no disrespect to anybody.
It was from Davidson. And I was like, where is Davidson?
And then this is how ignorant I was. After I
started getting letters. I always wanted to go to u
c l A. Because I went to high school Kareem
at bul Jabal and I was like, Wow, I'm gonna
(04:27):
go to u c l A. Until I found out
and it wasn't on University of corner of Alexington Avenue.
That's what it didn't stand for c l A. Right,
I thought it was in Halem. I thought all these
schools was in Halem. So I ended up saying, heck no,
(04:48):
you know, I cannot go to all U c l A.
Because I can't leave my parents. So at this point, um,
when I got home, there was a hundred letters and
and I was like, wow, I got something here. I
go home to show it to my daddy. And my
daddy never forgot. He asked you questions how much you're
going to us? And then even though I went from
(05:12):
never starting a high school game to starting my senior year,
I knew there was only two place I was gonna go,
Seton Hall or I was gonna go to St. John's
because they were close to each other. And I never
want to leave my parents. Because, believe it or not,
I say it on your show, I say it to
my teammates and my staff all the time. I watched
(05:32):
The Women as a kid and The Exorcist, and I
slept in my parents bad to I was fourteen. I
was scared to death. You know. My dad used to say,
damn boy, when your feet stick off the bed more
than I do. You're trying to leave your mama, bad
ain't you? You know he's from the Deep South, doc guy,
you know. But the movie scared the hell out of me.
(05:54):
But it wasn't that. It was that so much things
happened to my sisters that I would never leave the
house to go to a camp without my dad. I've
known Jason Williams for three decades, and he has always
been the kindest man. I want to ask you all
to try to leave your preconceived notions at the door
for this interview. Whether at St. John's, briefly in Philadelphia,
(06:17):
blossoming in New Jersey, or after his career as a broadcaster,
Jason was always the biggest personality in the room, with
a heart to match. For someone in the spotlight of
as many major networks as Jason was for so long,
it's a minor miracle that more people were not aware
of what he had to overcome to get to the top.
Maybe if the public knew what you're about to hear,
(06:40):
things may have ended up differently in the court of
public opinion, even after a court of law charged him
with reckless manslaughter. I try to never behave as though
I've walked a mile in a man's shoes unless I'm
willing to walk beside them and hear their story from
its origin. For portions of this podcast list, her discretion
(07:00):
is advised so real quick I grew up on the
Lower East Side of Manhattan. I came home. I was
about thirteen and a half years old. Uh. I was
staying with my sister at the time. We would only
live building. The building depend on how if I missed curfew.
That means when the lights went on outside, I could
(07:23):
always run over to her house and she would tell
a lot to my dad that I was over there.
But this time it was an awakening. I got out
the elevator, I saw tremendous amount of blood. I looked
down the hallway and the blood got thicker and thicker,
and it led until my sister's apartment when I went
into them. My sister six ft one, she's about a
(07:45):
hundred and thirty pounds. She was a model, a supermodel.
And UH. A guy named Sergio, who I did not
know at the time. I found out his name later,
had stabbed seventeen times. That beat over the face with
a hammer in the bathtub in front of a two
(08:06):
year old son, e J and Uh. That was just
the start of it. Of course, we couldn't find Sir
Joy at that time. My sister was rushed to the
hospital where she received the blood transfusion. They didn't give
it much pain for her face. Uh, they gave it
(08:28):
more pain for her stab rooms was a seventeen and
she got hooked on morphine. But doing that blood transfusion.
I can't prove this, but hopefully this is the reason
because I've never seen my sister do drugs prior. She
came home and we had to take down all the
(08:52):
mirrors out of our house because her face was deformed.
She caught the A virus. He was the first woman
in New York City to catch it. It was something
like if you thought COVID was bad, uh, you times
that by a hundred. And when people don't know what
is going on, they became very, very panic and panic situations.
(09:17):
I remember going to Bellevue Hospitals. I now never forgive
Bellevue Hospital, um for having my sister come to appointments,
uh doing the service elevators. I never forgive my mother,
who I loved the death, who was dearly departed three
years ago, for each feeding my sister and a has
(09:38):
Matt suit. Um, you had to have a has Matt
suit on. That's something I never got over. And I
loved my mother. I never did that. I stayed with
my sister all during visiting hours, and then I would
walk home, which was about a two mile walk from
Street to the Lower east Side every single night. Sometimes
I stopped at Saint Theresa's and pray for She was
(09:58):
my best friend. She was the cool sister that will
pull up in uh new Cadillac and Junior High School
and say she being the passenger side. And all the
kids that you know used to bullet meal or make
fun of me because I wasn't dressed the right way
because at that time my mother and father split up
and I was living in Henry Street Settlement, which was
(10:20):
a homeless shelterough. So I wore one pair of cut
off jeans the school with a bomb on. So how
ridiculous did that look in February? But I looked real
cool when I got in the car and fourteen or
thirteen uh and started driving away. So um, but that's
(10:41):
about as good as it gets because we know people
rex who have HIV uh now they just went straight
to AIGs. Then she was my best friend. We had
plans together. Uh. She gave us back then it was
a milkshake thing, uh, and it was it took man
(11:01):
about five scoops and it took the biggest spoon that
chopped this thing up and it was a lumps and
you had to give it to her four times. But
she went from a hundred and thirty pounds to forty
one pounds when she died in his five of maybe
six months. Um, that was sad to see. Uh. My
(11:22):
sister sissy, who her name is Laura, but we called
the cissy try to ease the pain, came over and
started hanging out with her. And if you hang out
in the barbershop long enough, you're gonna get a haircut.
So my sister started using drugs with her intravenously, and
(11:44):
because Sergio decided to come in and rob my sister
and beat her like the way he beat her. I
lost two sisters to the age virus. And like I said,
it is not like where you can live with stuff
like this for twenty years, twenty five years. Um, this
is something that kills you. In six months, my sister
(12:05):
had a son named e Jane. My sister Laura had
a son named Monique. I was getting ready to go
to college and a couple of years, Uh, it was
a difficult situation for my family. Then right away I
have a sister named Roseanne, who was so beautiful like
(12:26):
my hogany and you know she was just beautiful. She
married an alcoholic, which we were not happy with. Um.
I actually pulled him around back and told him I
was not happy with him married my sister. Uh. He
told me very nicely, because that's the mold I'm in. Rex.
(12:51):
You play with me. I'm nicest guy in the world,
but when it comes to my family and my friends,
it's for real, especially my sister. So um, he asked me,
and okay me. Uh. Six months later he came up
and had a bad day, took a shotgun out and
blew my sister head off, and then uh shot himself.
(13:17):
I had another brother who was struggling with alcohol abuse
run into a wall that said welcome to South Carolina
on ninety five. Uh. So I've had and I don't
tell any of this for shock value. I just know
I've had a lot of business in addiction. UM. Myself,
(13:42):
I'm an alcoholic UM, and I have a disease that
tells me I don't have a disease. So at any
given moment, I can end up in an institution, I
can end up death, I can end up in jail.
And you know what's messed up, X, I have a disease.
That's the only disease you can go to jail for,
(14:05):
right if you're an attic, you can end up in
jail because you're an attict. Well, Rex, I end up
raising my sister's children, who I legally adopted, And it's
nothing like trying to get a eleven year old girl
up to go to school and an eight year old boy.
(14:26):
And you're pretty familiar with New York. So I had
to wake up one little boy at five o'clock in
the morning and then take him all the way from
New uh Queens to New York, drop him off of St. Anthony's,
and then get back up, wake rewake my daughter. And
when they at that ease and kind of getting into
(14:47):
the attitude and you know, they want to hear a
situation and you know, man natural, I was eighteen eighteen,
so um yeah, I took them to school and um
then after school, I had to go to school. So
after I finished school, I would have to go pick
them up one of Manhattan, one of Queen's. Then I
(15:10):
would have to bring him to Luke CORNERSECA who understood this,
and uh, they became ball boys and ball girls and
you know, doing stuff like that around the gym. Then
I had to practice. Then I had to go home
help them with their homework, do homework. And not to
call this no saint, but you know I played for St.
John's University. You played for Kentucky. That's all nice. You
(15:31):
gotta guys got a great program. But you're not in
New York City. You know, you're the You're the colle
tip of town. You know what I'm saying. So right now,
New York had a lot of places to go, a
lot of people today had the most famous university in
the world. I'm trying to get that done. And only
actorl aid I'll take for the rest of my life
(15:52):
is that after four years of college, my kids miss
five days of school and I got my degree and
I was able to be drafted in the first round,
which is a whole new story. I hope you touched
on about draft day. I want to ask you something.
You've had so much tragedy in your life, but even
(16:12):
at that young age taking care of your brother sister,
you know you're sisters kids. You've obviously always cared about people. Um,
how did you manage all of that? Being on your shoulders.
I know sometimes you probably didn't manage it um as
well as you would have liked to. But you're such
(16:32):
a caring person and you you wear your emotion on
your sleeve. Where does that come from? Well, I think
it came from my mother and father splitting up the
whole time. I had a tragedy with my uncle did
something very terrible to me when you were seven years old? Right, Yeah,
when I was seven years old, he got us drunk
and he really hurt me physically. Uh, and my cousin.
(16:57):
But you know, I never forget good and him making
me drink two glasses of liquor and get into the
house and was hung over as a you know, seven
eight year old, and I knew I was in trouble
when I slept on. Uh. We had a room in
South Carolina, was the regular room that we had a
(17:17):
good room where furniture was at the plastic on it.
If you were in that room, you're in trouble because
my grandmama let nobody use that room. You know, that
room was for rehearsal for the choir when they're none
singing behind so um. She told me that it was
her son who did it that if I was to
tell anybody that my daddy would probably get upset and
(17:41):
kill his brother. And so that was something that I
had to live with and it was a little bit
of chip on my shoulder. But you know what, Rex,
if you asked me how I raised these children, it
was a family. We have a family that we make
how the tragedy, We tell good stories. We get around
and we tell the good, the bad and body My
family could tell a story. And it was just like
(18:03):
it's the next person up, and I was the next
person up, and I was about to let them go
to force the care. So I, you know, I took
them on and it was just like nothing. That's fantastic.
With the pick in a draft, the Phoenix start elect
(18:24):
Jason Williams from Thanks John Univers, you heard the round
of a blog. Jason william are quite his basketball at
Saint John Jain a power forward. The question on Jason
Williams was how is this condition? He had an injury foot.
They had to place a pen in his foot surgically.
This was a man who might have been a lottery
(18:45):
pick without that injury to his foot and getting a
pin in the foot. Let me just tell you something
about draft nights that you played there. You remember back.
I didn't go to the to the Madison Square Guard
of Rex. I went to Coach Corner Sector's office and
I would look back. This is the funny story. My
(19:06):
mother and father would sit back before me, behind me.
Now my dad is a really dark skinned black guy
with really white eyes. My mother is white, and I
would look my My agent told my dad said, look,
he didn't go anywhere from five to twenty five. All
my dad heard was he going number five. So I
broke my leg. I broke my Footmall senior year. So
(19:29):
when number five came the Miami heat, my father jumped up, yeah,
and it was like goes to Mark Kessler and my
dad was like still clapping. I was like, Dad, that
ain't be and he and she said, don't worrybody, you'll
be next. This went on. We got the number ten,
don't worry by the son, you'll be next. We got
(19:50):
the number seventeen was the Knicks, so I he knew
I was going there playing at St. John's in New York.
So the number seventeenth pick came on and said New
York's pick Jim Right, Rod Moust off. So my dad
was like, so I did a double take, right, I
(20:11):
said that it's gonna be all right. It's gonna be
all right. Now look back again. He looked at my
mom and said, babble this something that's gonna had me
laying bridge the rest of my life. So so I
know this is gonna get a little tricky. I try
to let this die down, but hell, they keep losing
my luggage and Phoenix anyway, so I gotta send it
(20:33):
without them knowing. You noticed, uh story, Rex, but a
lot of your listeners might not know. Um. I was
a young man, probably a couple of years younger over
circumstances than than what my age really was. I was
very immature. But I knew on the twenty second pick
I was going to the nets because they called and said, well,
(20:55):
this reed said I'm picking you. So it was at
the twenty first pick at this time, and you know,
back then that was a big deal because they thought
they were getting a lottery pick. Who was hurt that
can they can wait for and they had twenty thousand
people in the stadium. I didn't know that because I
wouldn't paying attention. I didn't know where Phoenix was, and
(21:18):
I damn sure wasn't going there. So they said, the
number twenty one pick goes to Phoenix Suns and I'm
just having a conversation with coach Connor SCA and they said,
Jason Williams, and we ain't even here because we won't
pay an attention. And then they put a microphone in
my face. They said, hey, Jason, what do you think
(21:39):
about going to the Phoenix Suns. I said, go on, well,
I say, ain't going to Phoenix. I got the next pick.
I'm going to Philadelphia. They said, no, you got drafted
by Phoenix and culture trying to shake me and I said,
I'm not going to Phoenix. I said, ain't not not
there but some red neck pickup driving the teeth in
(22:00):
their mouth, having sons of bitches, and the whole stadium
was like and I was like, and that's that. And
then at twelve o'clock that night, the governor put on
a state of emergency that I was a racist. You know,
I didn't even know my mom was right, but I
was just not going. And I went there, and I
(22:24):
never forget Jerry Colangelo giving me an old Raggy Ltd.
And giving subjects a battas a night, hell night, brand
new Cadillac. So I took the car up into the
parking lot up in the on the mall and I
smashed it up and I put it back down and
I said, I bet you I get a car like
them all. And uh. The next day I went outside
(22:45):
and they had one of them little grand damns, you
remember them, little party act. It was three times more
than that. Barnaby Jones called and and on the sticker
on the window and said, maybe the other car was
too big. This might help him. So I'm not gonna
boy you going into what I had to do and
destroy their officers. But they end up trading me to
(23:08):
the Philadelphia seventy six is And I just made that
long story to tell you that subjects A Battles called
me and said, man, it was thirty year anniversary. And
I just like you, glad. Did you like that cold
money in Philadelphia? Because one for you, I'll be out
the league. That's right. Um, you got so many interests.
(23:29):
You're just fascinating, so much emotional intelligence. JA I gotta ask,
did you love basketball or do you play? Because you
were sized and athleticism. That's a good question, right, at times.
I love. My dad got me my CDL license when
you can sign off on it. But then in two
thousand I had to retake the test side CDL that's
(23:53):
commercial drivers license has Matt we My dad had a
trucking company. He had a gas station and construct your company.
So I build most of my friends their homes, um
their foundations, and they take it from there. But you
people don't know this Rex that every morning I had
to wake up at four forty four, my dad had come.
(24:16):
We had a big farms, about seven animals. I had
to feed up and it was pretty much now I
know why. He'd be like, Jake, count them goats, and
I'd be like, God, the goots right, and then be like,
I mean one to eighteen. I make up a number
(24:37):
right there. I try to remember what happened two days ago,
and I'd be like, eighty four hen, like you're a
damn lie. He said they had a kid. That's what
you call a little goat. Last night he gonna count
them again, and I'll be like, hell, what eighty four one?
It's fine, But you can't never talk like that my dad,
because um, my dad wants put some lad in my
(24:59):
brother for drinking because he didn't tolerate drinking. Put a
little twenty two and is behind. But um, he did
that because he knew I needed accountability to get up
in the morning. My dad knew I had to stay busy.
And what happened to me in my life, Rex is
that when I lose my structure, soon came destruction. So
(25:21):
even to today, if I don't get up in the
morning and get to the weight room, I don't get
up in the morning and get myself together, I'm a
hot mess and it doesn't work. It never changes, you know.
My dad knews that. He used to say, let me
tell you something about your son, Barbara. He said, that's
something bit reflicted. She needs to stay busy. The way
(25:47):
that Jason has overcome and persevered. I mean, my goodness, wow,
taking blow after blow and coming out on the other
side from such a young age as all inspiring in hindsight.
His selflessness was his greatest asset, but may have been
as achilles heel as well. He give and give, but
how much was left for himself and his craft? His will, efforts,
(26:11):
and desire carried him to a sea of riches, but
the shallow end of his eternal pool was draining dangerously
low to the bottom. You know, you were so crucial
to your team winning your averaging thirteen and thirteen and
an All Star. You signed a big deal for you know,
ninety million dollars. I want the listeners to know how
(26:34):
important it was to have a guy like you who
was great at what you did, and how did your
life change when you signed that deal. Well, I was
doing pretty good before. I was building a nice house.
My dad built me a mega house. You probably go
on cribs and find it, but he built it himself.
What it did was i'mna quite honest. It probably took
(26:58):
the fire out of me um a little bit. And
but the one of what it does do Rex, You
know that because it happened to you the whole time,
because color of your skin. And then you came out
playing and use such a high lottery pick. Theres so
much hopes for I came in backing up Derrick Coleman
and being the backup and coming and out play those guys,
(27:18):
and you can get the headlines. But it's a difference
whout the rabbit got the gun right. It's a difference
when you know it's no fun when the rabbit got
the guns. So when you is the man who's supposed
to win, now you're taking the winds and the losses,
but you know everybody expect you to win and get
these numbers. It seemed like everybody was focusing more on
(27:41):
me in the pre game the other teams, and it
was tougher and tougher, and they was like, hey, man,
keep them offensive. Off the board had three or four
people checking me out. I think what hurt me the
most was when we had the all the lockout season
and we came back and nobody was ready. Well I
wasn't ready, you know. I was still like hemn being
(28:03):
no season and I'm gonna do what I do best.
You know, I'm coming on with three o'clock in the morning. Um.
And I thought that I could move out of the
way of us, you know, Stephon Marbury who uh steff
On Malbury. Uh, you know he had this big old
head and I planned to go up and Mutumbo knocked
him into my knee and the first year, first year,
(28:27):
first year, sixteen games in the contract and broke my
leg and I never really played again. I tried to
make a comeback three years later, and then you conversate
on one leg and your break the fifth metal TOSSU
which gets no blood, and the other. But as far
as making the money, it's more important to keep in
(28:49):
the locker room. What happened was we had a good
locker room until we got certain people. See, I had
one of these owners. God blessed him. He died, but
he had the idea that, you know, trainee Sam Casale,
who you know is great in the locker room, to
step on Marlbury. Um. And me and Marlbury didn't get along.
We didn't see eye to eye and he didn't see
(29:11):
eye eye with a lot of teammates, and it just
brought the morale now for me. My um. But uh,
I just thought that was it, and it just I
loved well. I love basketball. You asked me a question
that I love playing. I love construction and driving trunk more.
But I loved when we won, and I loved when
I was in the meadowlands and had those fans. Matter
(29:33):
of fact, I had a season ticket. All the season
ticket holders was allowed to come to my house once
a year, which was about five thousand, and I get
the norm and hang out. I love the camaraderie. I
love seeing people smile and feel good actually playing the game.
You really had to poke the bear uh to get
me going. So I played hard every day. And because
(29:54):
hustle is the talent I tell these kids all the day.
You know, hell, you know no bigger talent than diving
on lo balls, grabbing offensive rebounds, which I think I
don't think anybody has broken that record. And um and
and just going out and and taking charges, and nothing
worse or nothing better than grabbing the offensive rebound and
throw it back to Sam and he missing it, and
(30:15):
go and get another one, throw it back to Sam
and then he make it and and he makes all
the rest, you know. And I love that when just
love making people feel good. But when you get some
bad apples on the team, you know that, when you
get some dudes on the team. And I was this guy.
I was always the enforcer in the locker roo. I'm
be like looking at man, you say thank you for
the person picking up the tower, you say thank you
(30:38):
for the to the ball boys, and you quit moping
around here because you're making twenty million dollars. Look, when
we had to strike, I paid every single person that
worked in the in the meadowlands so all these people
are serving popcorn union workers all that I paid. You know,
I paid them because they were missing for the games.
(30:59):
You know these other guys that come in and you know,
reach over at the popcorn makeup and just snack some
popcorn out their hand. Not all these guys, just one idiot.
Uh and Uh, I said, hey man, he gotta pay
for that popcorn. When you get back, you know you're
gonna get up and pay for it. Was literally times.
Then I will stop and called time out when I've
(31:19):
seen it and make him go into the room and
get some money and paid them. So that's the kind
of program I ran there. Um and it was good
when we had good people. You know, Jason, you if
I had one word, if somebody said, you know, describe
Jason Williams to me as a basketball player, my uh
answer is always relentless. You were just relentless and that's
(31:42):
what made you such a great teammate. You. So you've
broken your leg and at this point you've talked with
the doctors you try to make a comeback. Uh, you've
kind of decided it's not gonna happen. Did there come
a point where you thought your life was spiraling out
of control. You know what happened. I went to school
at St. John's University. I got remember degree and I
(32:04):
used it right away. It was communications and liberal hearts.
I jumped right into NBC and I was Charles Barkley
and uh, what's the guys straight hand before straight hand?
And all these guys didn't that stuff. Yeah, I was
on NBC and I was making it fun and I
never gave stats. I love it when Shaquille and all
these guys got up there go, well, we're gonna get
(32:25):
eighteen point seven rebounds. Who the hell knows how many
gonna get eighteen point seven? And that the viewer care
if you don't want to hear about, you know, a
funny story like we've been telling tonight. Right, I can't
tell you who're gonna win the damn game, And neither
kid anybody on that panel. Right. So I kept lively
and we were number one. Man, we were number one
at that time. When you start playing bad, don't you
(32:47):
notice disrect you start getting more and more people around you.
You know, misery loves company. Yeah, so all of a sudden,
you know, the core people like the wrong rutledges and
uh my brother and the George Patters and the Daniel Shays.
All the guys that were close to me would say, hey,
j it's eleven thirty. We got one tomorrow, we got
(33:08):
a game. Time to go, you know, finish that up.
And then I look around. You see a pretty girl,
you see something and be like then, but then you
see a whole bunch of other guys and they'll come
over to you, send you a drinking and say, hey man,
you ain't got to go. You're doing what you do.
The team sucks, you know, And then all the sunnen
you get a bigger group of people hanging out with you,
(33:32):
and your core people leave. Now you don't know that
team of people that's around you. Now they have a
group of people around them rex now before and they
have a group. So before you know what, you're sitting
up in the club and you with thirty people you
don't know, and your core group is gone. And then
(33:53):
all the sudden, you got some people crea because they
got a plan. They create drama in the club. And
then when big guy comes over and he tries to
put it out so he could move up in status,
uh and beside and before you knew it, you're lost.
And that's what happened to me. I became lost, and
it was because at this point I was crying in
(34:16):
my milk. At that point, I'm crying in my milk
now when I get sad. Before I was crying in
about a Scotch And that's dangerous. And then you know,
you have a house for the people and a lot
of things gonna go wrong. And I think the biggest
thing that happened to me was I got too big
for my bridges. First of all, Um, I started trusting
(34:37):
in everyone else instead of trusting in God first and
then trusting in my core people. And like I said,
with our structure came instruction, and I was just like,
you know what, I'm not doing that. I'm not doing that.
I'm just gonna be Hollywood hell with that. And I
had the best job as the highest paid guy. He
was on the way to win an enemy. UH rememby
(35:00):
thirty one and then uh I had I had an
accident that I recklessly caused and and recklessly ran away
from and and I had to uh and I'm deeply
sorry to Mr Kristaphi and his family, and I had
to go. I went to prison and I was there
for twenty seven months, and uh, a lot of things
(35:21):
changed from then. Let me ask this, where did your
desire to own guns come from? Look, I'm from Kentucky,
so I know gun culture. Um, but you're a guy
from New York with a construction background. How did all
these guns end up at your house? Well, I'm gonna
tell you two things, and it's honest truth. First of all,
I had skeep machines. If you watch MTV crib, you
(35:44):
know I had skeep machines. I grew up in South
Carolina for a while, so we would do you know,
clay shootings. So all the guns in my house, you know, shotguns,
So they were all for clay machines. Uh. The problem
I had was leaving them uh locked at times, and
the trusting people to put them back. What happened that
(36:04):
night there was a shell in the gun. I'm not
gonna blame it. It was my gun. I own it. Uh,
I did not mean to. I did not know Mr
can stop feeds in the room. The gun went off,
hit him and killed him in called nine one. I
panic ran away. It's something that's going to follow me
for the rest of my life. But it's and I'm
(36:26):
sorry your use of alcohol has gotten you into a
lot of trouble. Obviously, alcohol and guns don't fix that's
gotten you where you are today. But where you go
from today, how you handle the rest of your life,
it's entirely in your hands, and you're gonna choose your
own path. So with regard to these matters, on the
(36:50):
charge of hindering apprehension, which is the third degree crime,
on the charge of tampering with that with witnesses, which
is also a third degree crime. On each of those matters,
of the be a five year term in state prison.
On the count the fourth degree account of aggravating assaulted,
it will be an eighteen month term eighteen months to
(37:11):
be served without parole. The council will run concurring to
each other. So it's a net aggravate term of five
years in state prison eighteen months to be served without parole.
To my family, please for give me for the pain
that I cause to you my children. Did you deserve
(37:31):
a better father, son, brother than I have been? Judge
Coleman and the Christopher family. Not a bad man, but
I actually active battling on right fourteen. I will work
endlessly to prove myself to continue to help others and
(37:54):
again make positive contributions and our society. That's who I
am and that's who I want my daughter to be
proud of. When you get a wrong group of people
around you, Rex, and this happens to a lot of
NFL guys and a lot of guys who an NBA,
who have a posse. When you don't have your original
(38:17):
posse no more who know that you can do what
you can do and gonna tell you the way it is.
You start owning guns because nobody's gonna rob us in
the club. Rex, We're spending money, we got more security,
more bouncers. They're gonna make sure you're gonna be all right,
(38:39):
and nobody wants that publicity. Plus I'm from New York City.
I can handle myself. Everybody in the city that we'll
do something like that has the much most respect for me. Um.
It becomes where you hold guns because you're hanging out
with people who know your intimate secrets right, and you
(39:00):
because your secrets right. So you have a gun and
you're just letting them know you see this, you know,
and it ain't for you know, uh t bone or
salve or Anthony to come take your money. It's for
the inner group going, Hey, man, you been not telling
nobody what time we were out do and what we
was doing, and bet not tell about that goat and
(39:21):
and uh, you know all these kind of craziness um
and that and not be honest with you. That's the
true answer. And that's why athletes carry guns. We don't
carry guns. Who the hell are we you We're gonna
shoot our way out the club. It's just for the
inner circle that we don't trust that tell us how
good we are. And no, damn, well my daddy say this,
(39:44):
love many trust ifew pat of your own damn canoe nice?
I love your dad. I've never met him. Uh. They
sound like an unbelievable man. Hey, to share this stuff
is huge. Um. I've heard you talk about the people
around you and your behavior the night of the shooting,
(40:04):
and I've heard you say you acted like a coward.
But now that you're sober, clean, you've had all this time,
do you even feel like that was you? Or was
that some other version of yourself where you're just broken
at this point? Uh, you know want something when you
hear this and you just see nothing and you see
somebody hit the ground, You're like, your first is to
(40:27):
protect yourself, I guess, and me run. I never remember this,
jumping in the swimming pool, coming back button naked and
you know, but I remember watching not in less than
ten seconds, calling and I remember coming back. Everybody's trying
to tell a story, like probably including myself. I think
I was selfish. I think um, if I was with
(40:50):
the right crew, it was Ron Rutledge, my brother, any
one of the group that helped me get to where
I am, Danny Mizelle's, uh Joe and Mike Kaiser. I
would have been in a situation where he said, Jay,
you had an accident. Stop stop man. What happens is
you just panic. You're going to shock And if you
(41:13):
ever accidentally killing man, it's never the same. You know,
you're taking something from everything he got and everything he's
gonna app And sometimes when I'm having a real good time,
I just stopped laughing and I love to laugh, and
I go, damn, I did something that could have been avoidable.
I was reckless. Jay. You said you think about the
accident and the mistake every day. At the time, you said,
(41:37):
you've gone to Mr Chris stuff he's grave more than
your own father's. Uh. Do you think the weight of
that mistake led to probably even more alcohol abuse or
do you think once you've crossed a certain point with drinking,
you were just an alcoholic and someone who like me
would be in recovery for the rest of your life. Well,
(41:59):
I think it's the ripple effect. It's the effect that
when you get out of jail, you said, look, I
paid my debt to society, I'm out, NBA, you will
help me. Uh. Not that you needed resources, but you
want to get back with the camaraderie, that's right. Uh,
And people go, oh, I can't touch you night, Gonna
(42:21):
need a little time. Well it's been twenty years later,
and about five years ago now the NBA letters partner
up with them, uh to have a center where we
can help people in anxiety, depression and drugs and alcohol
and um, that's where I'm at right now. Jason Williams
(42:42):
alcohol once controlled every aspect of his life. However, for
the last twenty seven months that's no longer been the case.
Williams battled alcoholism for years. He came down to Palm
Beach County for treatment and to get help through the
advice of his friend Charles Oakley. Now he's helping others.
For fifty three year old Jason William this is just
another day at the office, his office. You see, it's
(43:04):
actually a rehabilitation program which uses adventure sports to joke
addicts out at their bad head. Be honest with you,
I'm very, very good through the grace of God and
getting people better. Probably the highest in the country, jumping
out of airplanes, uh, scuba diving with our therapists and psychiatrists.
(43:26):
With us, we do nineteen different crazy outdoor activities and
then boom, we go right into our treatment. And you know,
we're out from six o'clock in the morning until eight
o'clock at night. And people exhaust, they lose weight, they
gain muscle, build self esteem, breakdown barriers. It's like no
other program in the country that does this. And I
have to be there seven days a week, so it
(43:47):
keeps me accountable. But be honest between me and you, Rex,
what it does is it deflects. For right now, it
keeps my mind off for the awful things that I
have done. And guess when I get home, I'm so
tired that I go to sleep and then tomorrow, Rinch
(44:11):
Wash repeat every day, Rinch Ross repeat. But like I said,
it's about the program that people say, well, Jason stuck
down there. You know, we get the toughest cases. And uh,
because I'm a warning on example, how many people have
been through the things that I've been through, So you know,
(44:33):
not only with our psychiatrists and our coaches and all
the people. Look, look we got your man Mike Jaminski
down here, and right now, he came down and he's
on one year sober, and much as he wanted to
be on this show today he goes, look, I'm teaching
that one of the two class. And you know he
told me three months ago he says, I found my calling,
(44:54):
you know. So as much as he's on CBS, man
Mike is working down here with us. Um, we have
had some of them, you know, and we don't get
the easy cases because it's hard to get somebody who
hasn't hit their rock bottom. You know. It's easy when
we get the guy that says, well, I'm down there
for d w I and the judge said, look, he
(45:16):
ain't there for sixty days calling me You're going to
jail right. Uh. But when you get somebody who has
an endless amount of resources. You have to be very
clever to find something to leverage them with um and
most of the time is finding their purpose. And that's
where the skills life. You know, your skills, ability and
(45:36):
going this way, and the and and the the abilities
of the world are going. You know this way, the
needs of the world. Skills and ability going this way,
and the needs of the world going this way. That's
your purpose. My purpose is getting up every morning help
with somebody. When did you know you were gonna do this?
I didn't because you know what happened. I wasn't going
to treatment. So you know it took Charles Oakley UH
(46:00):
and Curtis Martin. Now they came up to a cabin.
And you know how the brothers are right. The brothers
buy a range Rover and it ain't for a range Rover,
you know. They buy a range Rover and put white
interior in it. So oak brings up to this. I
bought it, uh from Jennifer Lopez and her husband. I
bought a cabin on the top of the hill, and
(46:21):
I had the resentments four in the Big book, you know,
f everybody you know, and I'm a lift here read
watering on the on and the hell with everybody. And
after sixteen days it was like red rum. I was
drinking a gall on the liquor. You know, you came
in there looked like the shining. So they came up
(46:41):
to do an intervention along with with Chris Mother. They
never want to leave Chris House and Chris Heron and
all these guys that have helped me. But when Oakley
came up, you know, he came up with something behind
his back because he was mad. Because when you get
out of this white interior, brand new Alexis, he was
on clay and mud, right, and now you know he's
(47:04):
on dirty his truck Arraine droping that meant to be dirty? Uh.
And then we go inside with Curtis and Curtis, I
give you, Jane, you know what you got to do.
What would Jesus do? Right? And I will watch him.
He's in front of me. Look over my shoulder. Now
(47:25):
from being in prison, somebody look over your shoulder, You
look back, you know. So I look back and and
Oka put something behind his back. I said, what the
hell he got by his back? Now I'm drunk, I'm
doing it. They're doing an intervention I'm drinking the gall
of the moonshine. I'm really drunk. So the next time
he did it and looked over his shoulder, I looked
(47:46):
back and hit it again. I didn't deva take and
Oak had illuminum back and he said, look, man, you're
going to treatment. And Curtis was like, what would Jesus do?
And what would Jesus do? Had a lot less on
me then with when Oak with this big baseball back
looming them back, so I said I I'll go. And
(48:09):
he had a cop like you know, like like Reggie,
you know, Bucky. Then Greg Nettles, you know he's ready
hit me. Um, and they got me down the treatment
and I never forget asking Oak, was you really gonna
hit me with that baseball back? He said all day long?
And I said, well, have you ever hit anybody with
(48:29):
looming the baseball back? Because I want to know how
you gauge that? Is it a full swing? It's a
little tap? You know? What was the games? He said? Jason,
I was gonna hit your ass until you got in
the truck and we got you the Florida. I went
down and after thirty days, see I go again. Jason,
(48:50):
me and Jason coming back, going I'm out, let's go
give me a job, you know, let's let's have fun
back on television, and that anybody said, huh, man, you
gotta go back. And I went back, and you know,
I volunteered out a couple of places and didn't have
the energy that I needed and didn't have the outdoor
(49:11):
venture therapy and because that stuff builds his steam and
it loses weight, and you know, it's just it's just
a tremendous program that I end up saying, Okay, I'm
gonna stay here for a year. And now it's six
years later and rebound and still going strong. And you
know what happens rex Sometimes you get in the knucklehead. Man.
(49:31):
I got some knuckleheads that come in, especially the players.
You know, God, you know it's hard for a player
to come in because we're taught out to surrender. Man.
Oh man, ain't got no problem. Man. I smoke a
little reef forever at once, oh while, you know, and
then I go, okay, man, pe in this cup and
the light up like a Christmas tree, you know, and
(49:53):
then you go look man, and then they're go okay, yeah, man.
I had that one night and this and that, and
then you three days later you see everybody wearing the
Rebound shirt, which means more to me, or as much
to me as them getting better, because that means that
they released the stigma. And once you release the stigma
and you wear this shirt, that means right now you
(50:15):
be hold accountable right because you went down there. See
a lot of players don't want to go down there
because they're still rather bag you know, wine, and you know,
don't let nobody know. People are gonna look at you go, hey, man,
didn't you just get help? Hell no, I'm not serving you.
Hey no, I'm not giving you no money even to
(50:35):
get your ass back to Jason. And I love it
with old grandmothers call me about their kids and they go, hey,
I don't toell this boy. You better get your ass
back to Jason. They don't even know the name of
the program. You better go see Jason. You know. So
I take a lot of pride in what we do, man,
And you've been down to visit a few times as
(50:57):
observer and something that you know, always helping, and you know,
I'm so proud of where we both have come. You know,
I'm so excited to do your show. I'd be quite
honest with you, I'm very uncomfortable doing these shows. But
for you, Rex, you know, all in for you because
let me tell you something. You know, um and one
(51:19):
and for like one year, Man, he was hitting it.
We that guy founding you're doing talks, you were knocking
it out the park. And uh, every time I see you, Man,
you just light up. And you don't know how much
that makes me feel. Brother, that you light up every
time that you see me, and that makes me feel very,
very very special. I love you, bro, And you gotta
(51:42):
know this, Jay, you light the world up. Everybody that
knows you, everybody that's come in contact with you. You're
Tony Kornheiser said at once about me. But I think
about it. When I think about you, You're incandescent. Your
light can't be put out. And you do bring joy
your helping so many people down there, for instance. And
you tell Mike that that I said this. I haven't
(52:05):
talked to Mike Jiminski in a couple of years, but
a mutual friend of ours I bumped into in an
airport about eighteen months ago and I said, Hey, have
you talked to g Man? He said, g Man is
not doing real well. Rex, I said, really, I had
no idea, and then I followed up with a couple
(52:27):
of friends and then lo and behold, I talked to
you a few weeks ago, and he's down there with you,
and I am so proud. I'm so happy that because
you know, hey, Mike's older. Mike's older, and it does
there's a stigma that goes, you know, with asking for help,
and so you tell him. I'm proud of him. I
love him to death. You keep doing what you're doing, man, Jay.
(52:50):
I want to thank you for joining me, telling us
about your work and recovery and be unwilling to own
your own mistakes and your actions and to try to
make sure you help other people. I want you to
know my door is always open to you, brother, and
I love you. Thank you. I love you, brother. Be well,
God bless charges selling no run Nians with the law
(53:12):
charges super least send the tennis and ball ass and
charges the celebrity gank forlorums. Charges we came along with
from living lawless charges selling no run Nians with the
law charges sheper least send the tennis and ball ass
and charges the celebrity gank. Forums and Charge we came
along with from living Lawless. Charge Charges is created by
Portlay and Control Media. It's produced by DV Podcasts in
(53:36):
association with I heart Radio. For more podcasts for my
heart Radio, visit i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you get your podcasts.
Charges. That's created by Portalais and Control Media. It's produced
by dB Podcasts in association with I Heart Radio. This
time a former Son's player who you might remember as
t Rex. More video in just a moment, but this
is Rex Chapman's mug shot and we are learning a
lot more about the charge up the charge? Where did
(00:22):
your desire to own guns come from? I have a disease.
That's the only disease. You can go to jail four
if you ever accidentally killer man, It's never the same.
I went to visit and I was there for twenty
seven months. A lot of things changed from them, and
like I said, with our structure came instruction. Jay, you
had an accident. Stop stop man. Welcome to Charges. I'm
(00:50):
your host, Rex Chapman. Today we speak with former NBA
All Star and my longtime friend, Jason Williams. Jason is
a mental giant, but his reputation unfortunately precedes him a
career in life on top as a professional athlete itself
is a blessing, but in an instant it can all
(01:11):
be taken away. He is a man who would make
backpage headlines during his career as a New Jersey Net
but in retirement, as when he made a splash onto
the front page, he has committed the worst mistake a
person can make, costing someone else their life, albeit accidentally.
What is not known is the slew of tragedies he
faced throughout his childhood and how he put his family
(01:34):
onto his broad shoulders time and time again through trials
in court and tribulations with addiction. The road has been long,
but Jason is a testament of resilience and I'm proud
to have him on to tell his story of rebounding
in life and for others today this his charges. Jason,
(01:59):
Welcome to the show. We've known each other for a
long time and I love you, my man. Just wanted
to get that out of the way. I feel like
people know pieces of your story, and you've told me
that you're ready to talk, so let's talk. When was
it clear to you that basketball was gonna be that
thing for you? What age were you and how did
change your life? I believe it or not, Rex, she
(02:21):
you was recruited and uh, you know everybody heard the
Rex Shapman out of New York. We got a lot
of people that played and in that area we had
Derek Coleman, Cherry Mills. Uh, we had Moses story. Uh,
we had Kenny Anderson, Anderson everybody. Yeah, we had everybody,
(02:41):
you know. Uh so I never got invited. It was
a guy named Tom Kachowski. You remember him, like he
was the guy who wrote down if you get four
stars or three stars or five stars and then right,
and that's what how college was recruited you. If you
got a three stars, you were going to the to
five star or four star. He was going Division one,
(03:03):
five star, you was going into the Big East. So
I would kind of manipulate him and said, hey, man,
once he changed that four to five and uh he said, well,
I tell you what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna get
you in the ABC camp. Remember that Sunny VI Carol.
I went up there and I was an invite owner.
I think it was a hundred people to get invited.
(03:24):
I was a hundred and three. Now, Derrick Coleman was
up there. Your buddy was up there. What you tell
us funny story about him? A little later h J. R.
Reid Um. So he came in as a rookie, as
a senior or sophomore, and I was a senior and
I just said, you know what, I'm gonna let it
have it here. You know, I'm just going I'm gonna play.
(03:46):
I'm a hoop boy. They had some orange uniforms and
gave us free sneakers. First time I ever got free sneakers.
So I went down to this camp and I had
a move that goes behind the back and and just
lay it up and I must have averaged third five points.
And I was just remember it was like the movies.
Everybody run into the phone and I had not one.
(04:06):
I did have a letter, uh, and no disrespect to anybody.
It was from Davidson. And I was like, where is Davidson?
And then this is how ignorant I was. After I
started getting letters. I always wanted to go to u
c l A. Because I went to high school Kareem
at bul Jabal and I was like, Wow, I'm gonna
(04:27):
go to u c l A. Until I found out
and it wasn't on University of corner of Alexington Avenue.
That's what it didn't stand for c l A. Right,
I thought it was in Halem. I thought all these
schools was in Halem. So I ended up saying, heck no,
(04:48):
you know, I cannot go to all U c l A.
Because I can't leave my parents. So at this point, um,
when I got home, there was a hundred letters and
and I was like, wow, I got something here. I
go home to show it to my daddy. And my
daddy never forgot. He asked you questions how much you're
going to us? And then even though I went from
(05:12):
never starting a high school game to starting my senior year,
I knew there was only two place I was gonna go,
Seton Hall or I was gonna go to St. John's
because they were close to each other. And I never
want to leave my parents. Because, believe it or not,
I say it on your show, I say it to
my teammates and my staff all the time. I watched
(05:32):
The Women as a kid and The Exorcist, and I
slept in my parents bad to I was fourteen. I
was scared to death. You know. My dad used to say,
damn boy, when your feet stick off the bed more
than I do. You're trying to leave your mama, bad
ain't you? You know he's from the Deep South, doc guy,
you know. But the movie scared the hell out of me.
(05:54):
But it wasn't that. It was that so much things
happened to my sisters that I would never leave the
house to go to a camp without my dad. I've
known Jason Williams for three decades, and he has always
been the kindest man. I want to ask you all
to try to leave your preconceived notions at the door
for this interview. Whether at St. John's, briefly in Philadelphia,
(06:17):
blossoming in New Jersey, or after his career as a broadcaster,
Jason was always the biggest personality in the room, with
a heart to match. For someone in the spotlight of
as many major networks as Jason was for so long,
it's a minor miracle that more people were not aware
of what he had to overcome to get to the top.
Maybe if the public knew what you're about to hear,
(06:40):
things may have ended up differently in the court of
public opinion, even after a court of law charged him
with reckless manslaughter. I try to never behave as though
I've walked a mile in a man's shoes unless I'm
willing to walk beside them and hear their story from
its origin. For portions of this podcast list, her discretion
(07:00):
is advised so real quick I grew up on the
Lower East Side of Manhattan. I came home. I was
about thirteen and a half years old. Uh. I was
staying with my sister at the time. We would only
live building. The building depend on how if I missed curfew.
That means when the lights went on outside, I could
(07:23):
always run over to her house and she would tell
a lot to my dad that I was over there.
But this time it was an awakening. I got out
the elevator, I saw tremendous amount of blood. I looked
down the hallway and the blood got thicker and thicker,
and it led until my sister's apartment when I went
into them. My sister six ft one, she's about a
(07:45):
hundred and thirty pounds. She was a model, a supermodel.
And UH. A guy named Sergio, who I did not
know at the time. I found out his name later,
had stabbed seventeen times. That beat over the face with
a hammer in the bathtub in front of a two
(08:06):
year old son, e J and Uh. That was just
the start of it. Of course, we couldn't find Sir
Joy at that time. My sister was rushed to the
hospital where she received the blood transfusion. They didn't give
it much pain for her face. Uh, they gave it
(08:28):
more pain for her stab rooms was a seventeen and
she got hooked on morphine. But doing that blood transfusion.
I can't prove this, but hopefully this is the reason
because I've never seen my sister do drugs prior. She
came home and we had to take down all the
(08:52):
mirrors out of our house because her face was deformed.
She caught the A virus. He was the first woman
in New York City to catch it. It was something
like if you thought COVID was bad, uh, you times
that by a hundred. And when people don't know what
is going on, they became very, very panic and panic situations.
(09:17):
I remember going to Bellevue Hospitals. I now never forgive
Bellevue Hospital, um for having my sister come to appointments,
uh doing the service elevators. I never forgive my mother,
who I loved the death, who was dearly departed three
years ago, for each feeding my sister and a has
(09:38):
Matt suit. Um, you had to have a has Matt
suit on. That's something I never got over. And I
loved my mother. I never did that. I stayed with
my sister all during visiting hours, and then I would
walk home, which was about a two mile walk from
Street to the Lower east Side every single night. Sometimes
I stopped at Saint Theresa's and pray for She was
(09:58):
my best friend. She was the cool sister that will
pull up in uh new Cadillac and Junior High School
and say she being the passenger side. And all the
kids that you know used to bullet meal or make
fun of me because I wasn't dressed the right way
because at that time my mother and father split up
and I was living in Henry Street Settlement, which was
(10:20):
a homeless shelterough. So I wore one pair of cut
off jeans the school with a bomb on. So how
ridiculous did that look in February? But I looked real
cool when I got in the car and fourteen or
thirteen uh and started driving away. So um, but that's
(10:41):
about as good as it gets because we know people
rex who have HIV uh now they just went straight
to AIGs. Then she was my best friend. We had
plans together. Uh. She gave us back then it was
a milkshake thing, uh, and it was it took man
(11:01):
about five scoops and it took the biggest spoon that
chopped this thing up and it was a lumps and
you had to give it to her four times. But
she went from a hundred and thirty pounds to forty
one pounds when she died in his five of maybe
six months. Um, that was sad to see. Uh. My
(11:22):
sister sissy, who her name is Laura, but we called
the cissy try to ease the pain, came over and
started hanging out with her. And if you hang out
in the barbershop long enough, you're gonna get a haircut.
So my sister started using drugs with her intravenously, and
(11:44):
because Sergio decided to come in and rob my sister
and beat her like the way he beat her. I
lost two sisters to the age virus. And like I said,
it is not like where you can live with stuff
like this for twenty years, twenty five years. Um, this
is something that kills you. In six months, my sister
(12:05):
had a son named e Jane. My sister Laura had
a son named Monique. I was getting ready to go
to college and a couple of years, Uh, it was
a difficult situation for my family. Then right away I
have a sister named Roseanne, who was so beautiful like
(12:26):
my hogany and you know she was just beautiful. She
married an alcoholic, which we were not happy with. Um.
I actually pulled him around back and told him I
was not happy with him married my sister. Uh. He
told me very nicely, because that's the mold I'm in. Rex.
(12:51):
You play with me. I'm nicest guy in the world,
but when it comes to my family and my friends,
it's for real, especially my sister. So um, he asked me,
and okay me. Uh. Six months later he came up
and had a bad day, took a shotgun out and
blew my sister head off, and then uh shot himself.
(13:17):
I had another brother who was struggling with alcohol abuse
run into a wall that said welcome to South Carolina
on ninety five. Uh. So I've had and I don't
tell any of this for shock value. I just know
I've had a lot of business in addiction. UM. Myself,
(13:42):
I'm an alcoholic UM, and I have a disease that
tells me I don't have a disease. So at any
given moment, I can end up in an institution, I
can end up death, I can end up in jail.
And you know what's messed up, X, I have a disease.
That's the only disease you can go to jail for,
(14:05):
right if you're an attic, you can end up in
jail because you're an attict. Well, Rex, I end up
raising my sister's children, who I legally adopted, And it's
nothing like trying to get a eleven year old girl
up to go to school and an eight year old boy.
(14:26):
And you're pretty familiar with New York. So I had
to wake up one little boy at five o'clock in
the morning and then take him all the way from
New uh Queens to New York, drop him off of St. Anthony's,
and then get back up, wake rewake my daughter. And
when they at that ease and kind of getting into
(14:47):
the attitude and you know, they want to hear a
situation and you know, man natural, I was eighteen eighteen,
so um yeah, I took them to school and um
then after school, I had to go to school. So
after I finished school, I would have to go pick
them up one of Manhattan, one of Queen's. Then I
(15:10):
would have to bring him to Luke CORNERSECA who understood this,
and uh, they became ball boys and ball girls and
you know, doing stuff like that around the gym. Then
I had to practice. Then I had to go home
help them with their homework, do homework. And not to
call this no saint, but you know I played for St.
John's University. You played for Kentucky. That's all nice. You
(15:31):
gotta guys got a great program. But you're not in
New York City. You know, you're the You're the colle
tip of town. You know what I'm saying. So right now,
New York had a lot of places to go, a
lot of people today had the most famous university in
the world. I'm trying to get that done. And only
actorl aid I'll take for the rest of my life
(15:52):
is that after four years of college, my kids miss
five days of school and I got my degree and
I was able to be drafted in the first round,
which is a whole new story. I hope you touched
on about draft day. I want to ask you something.
You've had so much tragedy in your life, but even
(16:12):
at that young age taking care of your brother sister,
you know you're sisters kids. You've obviously always cared about people. Um,
how did you manage all of that? Being on your shoulders.
I know sometimes you probably didn't manage it um as
well as you would have liked to. But you're such
(16:32):
a caring person and you you wear your emotion on
your sleeve. Where does that come from? Well, I think
it came from my mother and father splitting up the
whole time. I had a tragedy with my uncle did
something very terrible to me when you were seven years old? Right, Yeah,
when I was seven years old, he got us drunk
and he really hurt me physically. Uh, and my cousin.
(16:57):
But you know, I never forget good and him making
me drink two glasses of liquor and get into the
house and was hung over as a you know, seven
eight year old, and I knew I was in trouble
when I slept on. Uh. We had a room in
South Carolina, was the regular room that we had a
(17:17):
good room where furniture was at the plastic on it.
If you were in that room, you're in trouble because
my grandmama let nobody use that room. You know, that
room was for rehearsal for the choir when they're none
singing behind so um. She told me that it was
her son who did it that if I was to
tell anybody that my daddy would probably get upset and
(17:41):
kill his brother. And so that was something that I
had to live with and it was a little bit
of chip on my shoulder. But you know what, Rex,
if you asked me how I raised these children, it
was a family. We have a family that we make
how the tragedy, We tell good stories. We get around
and we tell the good, the bad and body My
family could tell a story. And it was just like
(18:03):
it's the next person up, and I was the next
person up, and I was about to let them go
to force the care. So I, you know, I took
them on and it was just like nothing. That's fantastic.
With the pick in a draft, the Phoenix start elect
(18:24):
Jason Williams from Thanks John Univers, you heard the round
of a blog. Jason william are quite his basketball at
Saint John Jain a power forward. The question on Jason
Williams was how is this condition? He had an injury foot.
They had to place a pen in his foot surgically.
This was a man who might have been a lottery
(18:45):
pick without that injury to his foot and getting a
pin in the foot. Let me just tell you something
about draft nights that you played there. You remember back.
I didn't go to the to the Madison Square Guard
of Rex. I went to Coach Corner Sector's office and
I would look back. This is the funny story. My
(19:06):
mother and father would sit back before me, behind me.
Now my dad is a really dark skinned black guy
with really white eyes. My mother is white, and I
would look my My agent told my dad said, look,
he didn't go anywhere from five to twenty five. All
my dad heard was he going number five. So I
broke my leg. I broke my Footmall senior year. So
(19:29):
when number five came the Miami heat, my father jumped up, yeah,
and it was like goes to Mark Kessler and my
dad was like still clapping. I was like, Dad, that
ain't be and he and she said, don't worrybody, you'll
be next. This went on. We got the number ten,
don't worry by the son, you'll be next. We got
(19:50):
the number seventeen was the Knicks, so I he knew
I was going there playing at St. John's in New York.
So the number seventeenth pick came on and said New
York's pick Jim Right, Rod Moust off. So my dad
was like, so I did a double take, right, I
(20:11):
said that it's gonna be all right. It's gonna be
all right. Now look back again. He looked at my
mom and said, babble this something that's gonna had me
laying bridge the rest of my life. So so I
know this is gonna get a little tricky. I try
to let this die down, but hell, they keep losing
my luggage and Phoenix anyway, so I gotta send it
(20:33):
without them knowing. You noticed, uh story, Rex, but a
lot of your listeners might not know. Um. I was
a young man, probably a couple of years younger over
circumstances than than what my age really was. I was
very immature. But I knew on the twenty second pick
I was going to the nets because they called and said, well,
(20:55):
this reed said I'm picking you. So it was at
the twenty first pick at this time, and you know,
back then that was a big deal because they thought
they were getting a lottery pick. Who was hurt that
can they can wait for and they had twenty thousand
people in the stadium. I didn't know that because I
wouldn't paying attention. I didn't know where Phoenix was, and
(21:18):
I damn sure wasn't going there. So they said, the
number twenty one pick goes to Phoenix Suns and I'm
just having a conversation with coach Connor SCA and they said,
Jason Williams, and we ain't even here because we won't
pay an attention. And then they put a microphone in
my face. They said, hey, Jason, what do you think
(21:39):
about going to the Phoenix Suns. I said, go on, well,
I say, ain't going to Phoenix. I got the next pick.
I'm going to Philadelphia. They said, no, you got drafted
by Phoenix and culture trying to shake me and I said,
I'm not going to Phoenix. I said, ain't not not
there but some red neck pickup driving the teeth in
(22:00):
their mouth, having sons of bitches, and the whole stadium
was like and I was like, and that's that. And
then at twelve o'clock that night, the governor put on
a state of emergency that I was a racist. You know,
I didn't even know my mom was right, but I
was just not going. And I went there, and I
(22:24):
never forget Jerry Colangelo giving me an old Raggy Ltd.
And giving subjects a battas a night, hell night, brand
new Cadillac. So I took the car up into the
parking lot up in the on the mall and I
smashed it up and I put it back down and
I said, I bet you I get a car like
them all. And uh. The next day I went outside
(22:45):
and they had one of them little grand damns, you
remember them, little party act. It was three times more
than that. Barnaby Jones called and and on the sticker
on the window and said, maybe the other car was
too big. This might help him. So I'm not gonna
boy you going into what I had to do and
destroy their officers. But they end up trading me to
(23:08):
the Philadelphia seventy six is And I just made that
long story to tell you that subjects A Battles called
me and said, man, it was thirty year anniversary. And
I just like you, glad. Did you like that cold
money in Philadelphia? Because one for you, I'll be out
the league. That's right. Um, you got so many interests.
(23:29):
You're just fascinating, so much emotional intelligence. JA I gotta ask,
did you love basketball or do you play? Because you
were sized and athleticism. That's a good question, right, at times.
I love. My dad got me my CDL license when
you can sign off on it. But then in two
thousand I had to retake the test side CDL that's
(23:53):
commercial drivers license has Matt we My dad had a
trucking company. He had a gas station and construct your company.
So I build most of my friends their homes, um
their foundations, and they take it from there. But you
people don't know this Rex that every morning I had
to wake up at four forty four, my dad had come.
(24:16):
We had a big farms, about seven animals. I had
to feed up and it was pretty much now I
know why. He'd be like, Jake, count them goats, and
I'd be like, God, the goots right, and then be like,
I mean one to eighteen. I make up a number
(24:37):
right there. I try to remember what happened two days ago,
and I'd be like, eighty four hen, like you're a
damn lie. He said they had a kid. That's what
you call a little goat. Last night he gonna count
them again, and I'll be like, hell, what eighty four one?
It's fine, But you can't never talk like that my dad,
because um, my dad wants put some lad in my
(24:59):
brother for drinking because he didn't tolerate drinking. Put a
little twenty two and is behind. But um, he did
that because he knew I needed accountability to get up
in the morning. My dad knew I had to stay busy.
And what happened to me in my life, Rex is
that when I lose my structure, soon came destruction. So
(25:21):
even to today, if I don't get up in the
morning and get to the weight room, I don't get
up in the morning and get myself together, I'm a
hot mess and it doesn't work. It never changes, you know.
My dad knews that. He used to say, let me
tell you something about your son, Barbara. He said, that's
something bit reflicted. She needs to stay busy. The way
(25:47):
that Jason has overcome and persevered. I mean, my goodness, wow,
taking blow after blow and coming out on the other
side from such a young age as all inspiring in hindsight.
His selflessness was his greatest asset, but may have been
as achilles heel as well. He give and give, but
how much was left for himself and his craft? His will, efforts,
(26:11):
and desire carried him to a sea of riches, but
the shallow end of his eternal pool was draining dangerously
low to the bottom. You know, you were so crucial
to your team winning your averaging thirteen and thirteen and
an All Star. You signed a big deal for you know,
ninety million dollars. I want the listeners to know how
(26:34):
important it was to have a guy like you who
was great at what you did, and how did your
life change when you signed that deal. Well, I was
doing pretty good before. I was building a nice house.
My dad built me a mega house. You probably go
on cribs and find it, but he built it himself.
What it did was i'mna quite honest. It probably took
(26:58):
the fire out of me um a little bit. And
but the one of what it does do Rex, You
know that because it happened to you the whole time,
because color of your skin. And then you came out
playing and use such a high lottery pick. Theres so
much hopes for I came in backing up Derrick Coleman
and being the backup and coming and out play those guys,
(27:18):
and you can get the headlines. But it's a difference
whout the rabbit got the gun right. It's a difference
when you know it's no fun when the rabbit got
the guns. So when you is the man who's supposed
to win, now you're taking the winds and the losses,
but you know everybody expect you to win and get
these numbers. It seemed like everybody was focusing more on
(27:41):
me in the pre game the other teams, and it
was tougher and tougher, and they was like, hey, man,
keep them offensive. Off the board had three or four
people checking me out. I think what hurt me the
most was when we had the all the lockout season
and we came back and nobody was ready. Well I
wasn't ready, you know. I was still like hemn being
(28:03):
no season and I'm gonna do what I do best.
You know, I'm coming on with three o'clock in the morning. Um.
And I thought that I could move out of the
way of us, you know, Stephon Marbury who uh steff
On Malbury. Uh, you know he had this big old
head and I planned to go up and Mutumbo knocked
him into my knee and the first year, first year,
(28:27):
first year, sixteen games in the contract and broke my
leg and I never really played again. I tried to
make a comeback three years later, and then you conversate
on one leg and your break the fifth metal TOSSU
which gets no blood, and the other. But as far
as making the money, it's more important to keep in
(28:49):
the locker room. What happened was we had a good
locker room until we got certain people. See, I had
one of these owners. God blessed him. He died, but
he had the idea that, you know, trainee Sam Casale,
who you know is great in the locker room, to
step on Marlbury. Um. And me and Marlbury didn't get along.
We didn't see eye to eye and he didn't see
(29:11):
eye eye with a lot of teammates, and it just
brought the morale now for me. My um. But uh,
I just thought that was it, and it just I
loved well. I love basketball. You asked me a question
that I love playing. I love construction and driving trunk more.
But I loved when we won, and I loved when
I was in the meadowlands and had those fans. Matter
(29:33):
of fact, I had a season ticket. All the season
ticket holders was allowed to come to my house once
a year, which was about five thousand, and I get
the norm and hang out. I love the camaraderie. I
love seeing people smile and feel good actually playing the game.
You really had to poke the bear uh to get
me going. So I played hard every day. And because
(29:54):
hustle is the talent I tell these kids all the day.
You know, hell, you know no bigger talent than diving
on lo balls, grabbing offensive rebounds, which I think I
don't think anybody has broken that record. And um and
and just going out and and taking charges, and nothing
worse or nothing better than grabbing the offensive rebound and
throw it back to Sam and he missing it, and
(30:15):
go and get another one, throw it back to Sam
and then he make it and and he makes all
the rest, you know. And I love that when just
love making people feel good. But when you get some
bad apples on the team, you know that, when you
get some dudes on the team. And I was this guy.
I was always the enforcer in the locker roo. I'm
be like looking at man, you say thank you for
the person picking up the tower, you say thank you
(30:38):
for the to the ball boys, and you quit moping
around here because you're making twenty million dollars. Look, when
we had to strike, I paid every single person that
worked in the in the meadowlands so all these people
are serving popcorn union workers all that I paid. You know,
I paid them because they were missing for the games.
(30:59):
You know these other guys that come in and you know,
reach over at the popcorn makeup and just snack some
popcorn out their hand. Not all these guys, just one idiot.
Uh and Uh, I said, hey man, he gotta pay
for that popcorn. When you get back, you know you're
gonna get up and pay for it. Was literally times.
Then I will stop and called time out when I've
(31:19):
seen it and make him go into the room and
get some money and paid them. So that's the kind
of program I ran there. Um and it was good
when we had good people. You know, Jason, you if
I had one word, if somebody said, you know, describe
Jason Williams to me as a basketball player, my uh
answer is always relentless. You were just relentless and that's
(31:42):
what made you such a great teammate. You. So you've
broken your leg and at this point you've talked with
the doctors you try to make a comeback. Uh, you've
kind of decided it's not gonna happen. Did there come
a point where you thought your life was spiraling out
of control. You know what happened. I went to school
at St. John's University. I got remember degree and I
(32:04):
used it right away. It was communications and liberal hearts.
I jumped right into NBC and I was Charles Barkley
and uh, what's the guys straight hand before straight hand?
And all these guys didn't that stuff. Yeah, I was
on NBC and I was making it fun and I
never gave stats. I love it when Shaquille and all
these guys got up there go, well, we're gonna get
(32:25):
eighteen point seven rebounds. Who the hell knows how many
gonna get eighteen point seven? And that the viewer care
if you don't want to hear about, you know, a
funny story like we've been telling tonight. Right, I can't
tell you who're gonna win the damn game, And neither
kid anybody on that panel. Right. So I kept lively
and we were number one. Man, we were number one
at that time. When you start playing bad, don't you
(32:47):
notice disrect you start getting more and more people around you.
You know, misery loves company. Yeah, so all of a sudden,
you know, the core people like the wrong rutledges and
uh my brother and the George Patters and the Daniel Shays.
All the guys that were close to me would say, hey,
j it's eleven thirty. We got one tomorrow, we got
(33:08):
a game. Time to go, you know, finish that up.
And then I look around. You see a pretty girl,
you see something and be like then, but then you
see a whole bunch of other guys and they'll come
over to you, send you a drinking and say, hey man,
you ain't got to go. You're doing what you do.
The team sucks, you know, And then all the sunnen
you get a bigger group of people hanging out with you,
(33:32):
and your core people leave. Now you don't know that
team of people that's around you. Now they have a
group of people around them rex now before and they
have a group. So before you know what, you're sitting
up in the club and you with thirty people you
don't know, and your core group is gone. And then
(33:53):
all the sudden, you got some people crea because they
got a plan. They create drama in the club. And
then when big guy comes over and he tries to
put it out so he could move up in status,
uh and beside and before you knew it, you're lost.
And that's what happened to me. I became lost, and
it was because at this point I was crying in
(34:16):
my milk. At that point, I'm crying in my milk
now when I get sad. Before I was crying in
about a Scotch And that's dangerous. And then you know,
you have a house for the people and a lot
of things gonna go wrong. And I think the biggest
thing that happened to me was I got too big
for my bridges. First of all, Um, I started trusting
(34:37):
in everyone else instead of trusting in God first and
then trusting in my core people. And like I said,
with our structure came instruction, and I was just like,
you know what, I'm not doing that. I'm not doing that.
I'm just gonna be Hollywood hell with that. And I
had the best job as the highest paid guy. He
was on the way to win an enemy. UH rememby
(35:00):
thirty one and then uh I had I had an
accident that I recklessly caused and and recklessly ran away
from and and I had to uh and I'm deeply
sorry to Mr Kristaphi and his family, and I had
to go. I went to prison and I was there
for twenty seven months, and uh, a lot of things
(35:21):
changed from then. Let me ask this, where did your
desire to own guns come from? Look, I'm from Kentucky,
so I know gun culture. Um, but you're a guy
from New York with a construction background. How did all
these guns end up at your house? Well, I'm gonna
tell you two things, and it's honest truth. First of all,
I had skeep machines. If you watch MTV crib, you
(35:44):
know I had skeep machines. I grew up in South
Carolina for a while, so we would do you know,
clay shootings. So all the guns in my house, you know, shotguns,
So they were all for clay machines. Uh. The problem
I had was leaving them uh locked at times, and
the trusting people to put them back. What happened that
(36:04):
night there was a shell in the gun. I'm not
gonna blame it. It was my gun. I own it. Uh,
I did not mean to. I did not know Mr
can stop feeds in the room. The gun went off,
hit him and killed him in called nine one. I
panic ran away. It's something that's going to follow me
for the rest of my life. But it's and I'm
(36:26):
sorry your use of alcohol has gotten you into a
lot of trouble. Obviously, alcohol and guns don't fix that's
gotten you where you are today. But where you go
from today, how you handle the rest of your life,
it's entirely in your hands, and you're gonna choose your
own path. So with regard to these matters, on the
(36:50):
charge of hindering apprehension, which is the third degree crime,
on the charge of tampering with that with witnesses, which
is also a third degree crime. On each of those matters,
of the be a five year term in state prison.
On the count the fourth degree account of aggravating assaulted,
it will be an eighteen month term eighteen months to
(37:11):
be served without parole. The council will run concurring to
each other. So it's a net aggravate term of five
years in state prison eighteen months to be served without parole.
To my family, please for give me for the pain
that I cause to you my children. Did you deserve
(37:31):
a better father, son, brother than I have been? Judge
Coleman and the Christopher family. Not a bad man, but
I actually active battling on right fourteen. I will work
endlessly to prove myself to continue to help others and
(37:54):
again make positive contributions and our society. That's who I
am and that's who I want my daughter to be
proud of. When you get a wrong group of people
around you, Rex, and this happens to a lot of
NFL guys and a lot of guys who an NBA,
who have a posse. When you don't have your original
(38:17):
posse no more who know that you can do what
you can do and gonna tell you the way it is.
You start owning guns because nobody's gonna rob us in
the club. Rex, We're spending money, we got more security,
more bouncers. They're gonna make sure you're gonna be all right,
(38:39):
and nobody wants that publicity. Plus I'm from New York City.
I can handle myself. Everybody in the city that we'll
do something like that has the much most respect for me. Um.
It becomes where you hold guns because you're hanging out
with people who know your intimate secrets right, and you
(39:00):
because your secrets right. So you have a gun and
you're just letting them know you see this, you know,
and it ain't for you know, uh t bone or
salve or Anthony to come take your money. It's for
the inner group going, Hey, man, you been not telling
nobody what time we were out do and what we
was doing, and bet not tell about that goat and
(39:21):
and uh, you know all these kind of craziness um
and that and not be honest with you. That's the
true answer. And that's why athletes carry guns. We don't
carry guns. Who the hell are we you We're gonna
shoot our way out the club. It's just for the
inner circle that we don't trust that tell us how
good we are. And no, damn, well my daddy say this,
(39:44):
love many trust ifew pat of your own damn canoe nice?
I love your dad. I've never met him. Uh. They
sound like an unbelievable man. Hey, to share this stuff
is huge. Um. I've heard you talk about the people
around you and your behavior the night of the shooting,
(40:04):
and I've heard you say you acted like a coward.
But now that you're sober, clean, you've had all this time,
do you even feel like that was you? Or was
that some other version of yourself where you're just broken
at this point? Uh, you know want something when you
hear this and you just see nothing and you see
somebody hit the ground, You're like, your first is to
(40:27):
protect yourself, I guess, and me run. I never remember this,
jumping in the swimming pool, coming back button naked and
you know, but I remember watching not in less than
ten seconds, calling and I remember coming back. Everybody's trying
to tell a story, like probably including myself. I think
I was selfish. I think um, if I was with
(40:50):
the right crew, it was Ron Rutledge, my brother, any
one of the group that helped me get to where
I am, Danny Mizelle's, uh Joe and Mike Kaiser. I
would have been in a situation where he said, Jay,
you had an accident. Stop stop man. What happens is
you just panic. You're going to shock And if you
(41:13):
ever accidentally killing man, it's never the same. You know,
you're taking something from everything he got and everything he's
gonna app And sometimes when I'm having a real good time,
I just stopped laughing and I love to laugh, and
I go, damn, I did something that could have been avoidable.
I was reckless. Jay. You said you think about the
accident and the mistake every day. At the time, you said,
(41:37):
you've gone to Mr Chris stuff he's grave more than
your own father's. Uh. Do you think the weight of
that mistake led to probably even more alcohol abuse or
do you think once you've crossed a certain point with drinking,
you were just an alcoholic and someone who like me
would be in recovery for the rest of your life. Well,
(41:59):
I think it's the ripple effect. It's the effect that
when you get out of jail, you said, look, I
paid my debt to society, I'm out, NBA, you will
help me. Uh. Not that you needed resources, but you
want to get back with the camaraderie, that's right. Uh,
And people go, oh, I can't touch you night, Gonna
(42:21):
need a little time. Well it's been twenty years later,
and about five years ago now the NBA letters partner
up with them, uh to have a center where we
can help people in anxiety, depression and drugs and alcohol
and um, that's where I'm at right now. Jason Williams
(42:42):
alcohol once controlled every aspect of his life. However, for
the last twenty seven months that's no longer been the case.
Williams battled alcoholism for years. He came down to Palm
Beach County for treatment and to get help through the
advice of his friend Charles Oakley. Now he's helping others.
For fifty three year old Jason William this is just
another day at the office, his office. You see, it's
(43:04):
actually a rehabilitation program which uses adventure sports to joke
addicts out at their bad head. Be honest with you,
I'm very, very good through the grace of God and
getting people better. Probably the highest in the country, jumping
out of airplanes, uh, scuba diving with our therapists and psychiatrists.
(43:26):
With us, we do nineteen different crazy outdoor activities and
then boom, we go right into our treatment. And you know,
we're out from six o'clock in the morning until eight
o'clock at night. And people exhaust, they lose weight, they
gain muscle, build self esteem, breakdown barriers. It's like no
other program in the country that does this. And I
have to be there seven days a week, so it
(43:47):
keeps me accountable. But be honest between me and you, Rex,
what it does is it deflects. For right now, it
keeps my mind off for the awful things that I
have done. And guess when I get home, I'm so
tired that I go to sleep and then tomorrow, Rinch
(44:11):
Wash repeat every day, Rinch Ross repeat. But like I said,
it's about the program that people say, well, Jason stuck
down there. You know, we get the toughest cases. And uh,
because I'm a warning on example, how many people have
been through the things that I've been through, So you know,
(44:33):
not only with our psychiatrists and our coaches and all
the people. Look, look we got your man Mike Jaminski
down here, and right now, he came down and he's
on one year sober, and much as he wanted to
be on this show today he goes, look, I'm teaching
that one of the two class. And you know he
told me three months ago he says, I found my calling,
(44:54):
you know. So as much as he's on CBS, man
Mike is working down here with us. Um, we have
had some of them, you know, and we don't get
the easy cases because it's hard to get somebody who
hasn't hit their rock bottom. You know. It's easy when
we get the guy that says, well, I'm down there
for d w I and the judge said, look, he
(45:16):
ain't there for sixty days calling me You're going to
jail right. Uh. But when you get somebody who has
an endless amount of resources. You have to be very
clever to find something to leverage them with um and
most of the time is finding their purpose. And that's
where the skills life. You know, your skills, ability and
(45:36):
going this way, and the and and the the abilities
of the world are going. You know this way, the
needs of the world. Skills and ability going this way,
and the needs of the world going this way. That's
your purpose. My purpose is getting up every morning help
with somebody. When did you know you were gonna do this?
I didn't because you know what happened. I wasn't going
to treatment. So you know it took Charles Oakley UH
(46:00):
and Curtis Martin. Now they came up to a cabin.
And you know how the brothers are right. The brothers
buy a range Rover and it ain't for a range Rover,
you know. They buy a range Rover and put white
interior in it. So oak brings up to this. I
bought it, uh from Jennifer Lopez and her husband. I
bought a cabin on the top of the hill, and
(46:21):
I had the resentments four in the Big book, you know,
f everybody you know, and I'm a lift here read
watering on the on and the hell with everybody. And
after sixteen days it was like red rum. I was
drinking a gall on the liquor. You know, you came
in there looked like the shining. So they came up
(46:41):
to do an intervention along with with Chris Mother. They
never want to leave Chris House and Chris Heron and
all these guys that have helped me. But when Oakley
came up, you know, he came up with something behind
his back because he was mad. Because when you get
out of this white interior, brand new Alexis, he was
on clay and mud, right, and now you know he's
(47:04):
on dirty his truck Arraine droping that meant to be dirty? Uh.
And then we go inside with Curtis and Curtis, I
give you, Jane, you know what you got to do.
What would Jesus do? Right? And I will watch him.
He's in front of me. Look over my shoulder. Now
(47:25):
from being in prison, somebody look over your shoulder, You
look back, you know. So I look back and and
Oka put something behind his back. I said, what the
hell he got by his back? Now I'm drunk, I'm
doing it. They're doing an intervention I'm drinking the gall
of the moonshine. I'm really drunk. So the next time
he did it and looked over his shoulder, I looked
(47:46):
back and hit it again. I didn't deva take and
Oak had illuminum back and he said, look, man, you're
going to treatment. And Curtis was like, what would Jesus do?
And what would Jesus do? Had a lot less on
me then with when Oak with this big baseball back
looming them back, so I said I I'll go. And
(48:09):
he had a cop like you know, like like Reggie,
you know, Bucky. Then Greg Nettles, you know he's ready
hit me. Um, and they got me down the treatment
and I never forget asking Oak, was you really gonna
hit me with that baseball back? He said all day long?
And I said, well, have you ever hit anybody with
(48:29):
looming the baseball back? Because I want to know how
you gauge that? Is it a full swing? It's a
little tap? You know? What was the games? He said? Jason,
I was gonna hit your ass until you got in
the truck and we got you the Florida. I went
down and after thirty days, see I go again. Jason,
(48:50):
me and Jason coming back, going I'm out, let's go
give me a job, you know, let's let's have fun
back on television, and that anybody said, huh, man, you
gotta go back. And I went back, and you know,
I volunteered out a couple of places and didn't have
the energy that I needed and didn't have the outdoor
(49:11):
venture therapy and because that stuff builds his steam and
it loses weight, and you know, it's just it's just
a tremendous program that I end up saying, Okay, I'm
gonna stay here for a year. And now it's six
years later and rebound and still going strong. And you
know what happens rex Sometimes you get in the knucklehead. Man.
(49:31):
I got some knuckleheads that come in, especially the players.
You know, God, you know it's hard for a player
to come in because we're taught out to surrender. Man.
Oh man, ain't got no problem. Man. I smoke a
little reef forever at once, oh while, you know, and
then I go, okay, man, pe in this cup and
the light up like a Christmas tree, you know, and
(49:53):
then you go look man, and then they're go okay, yeah, man.
I had that one night and this and that, and
then you three days later you see everybody wearing the
Rebound shirt, which means more to me, or as much
to me as them getting better, because that means that
they released the stigma. And once you release the stigma
and you wear this shirt, that means right now you
(50:15):
be hold accountable right because you went down there. See
a lot of players don't want to go down there
because they're still rather bag you know, wine, and you know,
don't let nobody know. People are gonna look at you go, hey, man,
didn't you just get help? Hell no, I'm not serving you.
Hey no, I'm not giving you no money even to
(50:35):
get your ass back to Jason. And I love it
with old grandmothers call me about their kids and they go, hey,
I don't toell this boy. You better get your ass
back to Jason. They don't even know the name of
the program. You better go see Jason. You know. So
I take a lot of pride in what we do, man,
And you've been down to visit a few times as
(50:57):
observer and something that you know, always helping, and you know,
I'm so proud of where we both have come. You know,
I'm so excited to do your show. I'd be quite
honest with you, I'm very uncomfortable doing these shows. But
for you, Rex, you know, all in for you because
let me tell you something. You know, um and one
(51:19):
and for like one year, Man, he was hitting it.
We that guy founding you're doing talks, you were knocking
it out the park. And uh, every time I see you, Man,
you just light up. And you don't know how much
that makes me feel. Brother, that you light up every
time that you see me, and that makes me feel very,
very very special. I love you, bro, And you gotta
(51:42):
know this, Jay, you light the world up. Everybody that
knows you, everybody that's come in contact with you. You're
Tony Kornheiser said at once about me. But I think
about it. When I think about you, You're incandescent. Your
light can't be put out. And you do bring joy
your helping so many people down there, for instance. And
you tell Mike that that I said this. I haven't
(52:05):
talked to Mike Jiminski in a couple of years, but
a mutual friend of ours I bumped into in an
airport about eighteen months ago and I said, Hey, have
you talked to g Man? He said, g Man is
not doing real well. Rex, I said, really, I had
no idea, and then I followed up with a couple
(52:27):
of friends and then lo and behold, I talked to
you a few weeks ago, and he's down there with you,
and I am so proud. I'm so happy that because
you know, hey, Mike's older. Mike's older, and it does
there's a stigma that goes, you know, with asking for help,
and so you tell him. I'm proud of him. I
love him to death. You keep doing what you're doing, man, Jay.
(52:50):
I want to thank you for joining me, telling us
about your work and recovery and be unwilling to own
your own mistakes and your actions and to try to
make sure you help other people. I want you to
know my door is always open to you, brother, and
I love you. Thank you. I love you, brother. Be well,
God bless charges selling no run Nians with the law
(53:12):
charges super least send the tennis and ball ass and
charges the celebrity gank forlorums. Charges we came along with
from living lawless charges selling no run Nians with the
law charges sheper least send the tennis and ball ass
and charges the celebrity gank. Forums and Charge we came
along with from living Lawless. Charge Charges is created by
Portlay and Control Media. It's produced by DV Podcasts in
(53:36):
association with I heart Radio. For more podcasts for my
heart Radio, visit i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or
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