Vol. 18: Mardy Fish

For the eighteenth episode of Charges, Rex brings Mardy Fish on the show to talk about his Tennis career and how mental health changed his life. Rex & Mardy discuss: How Tennis entered his life & looking back at how he started, how he got better & not living at home, his relationship with Andy Roddick, the ranking system on The Tour, being overweight & getting in shape, having a heart issue, his career, the moment everything changed, mental health in sports & more. This episode is not to be missed!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Charges. That's created by Portalais and Control Media. It's produced
by dB Podcasts in association with I Heart Radio. This
time a former Son's player who you might remember as
t Rex More video in just a moment, But this
is Rex Chapman's mug Shaun, and we are learning a
lot more about the charge of charging. What do you

(00:22):
realize now that you look back on it and you
know so much more about yourself and mental health. I
stayed home for like four straight months. I didn't do anything.
If I left my house, I went to the psychiatrist.
That was the only time I left my house. And
like right away, that's like weight just lifted off my
shoulders and I was like, oh my god, I don't
actually have to play. If I didn't have the support

(00:43):
system I had, there's no talent where I'd be today.
Welcome to Charges. I'm your host, Rex Chapman. Mental health
is a hot topic in sports and then the world
in general. These days. We see it with players like
Naomi Osaka and Kevin love Of and to Marta Rosen
and countless others who have talked about the pressure and

(01:04):
the struggle to cope with social anxiety, depression and a
host of other mental health ailments and issues. I bring
that up because today my guest is Marty Fish. Marty
was a top ten tennis player in the world and
suffered one of the more public battles with his mental
health in the prime of his career. We're gonna talk
with Marty about that. He's done an amazing job and

(01:25):
commendable job when it comes to sharing his journey. Marty
really deserves a ton of credit for being someone in
the sports world who recognized and dealt with his mental
health issues almost a decade before it became something that
was accepted and understood. This his charges, Marty, thanks for

(01:51):
being here. Welcome to the show, buddy. Yeah, thanks for
having us. Thanks for that intro. Appreciated. I know when
I come on shows, I've always like, oh man, they
really loved me up, So we tried to appreciate out
all the good stuff there. Uh, Marty, let's go back
to the beginning. How does tennis enter your life as
basically a baby in Minnesota? Yeah, um well, I come

(02:13):
from a tennis family. Um My father teaches tennis, still
teaches tennis. Went to the US Open even before I
was born as a fan. Um so um, you know,
pretty cool history of kind of tennis sports. My sister
played collegiately. Um, I guess I got my sort of
my I guess my sporting talent from my mom. My

(02:33):
dad was a uh was one of those kind of
hard workers, went to University of Minnesota, tried to play
you know a little bit, and just didn't have the
the athleticism or or the talent that it took, but
certainly had the work ethic and stuff. So UM, instill
that in me pretty early, um, which was nice and UM,
you know, just couldn't have had a better, uh more

(02:54):
you know, sort of more comfortable upbringing. Um, really lucky.
You know that tennis is a gnarly or we can
get into that as much as you want. But but
in terms of tennis parents, UM, I put tennis parents
right up there with with any parent of any sport, um,
as crazy as any of them are. And I've been
super lucky, super lucky with that. That's amazing, It's amazing.

(03:16):
I don't know if people realize this, but tennis seems
to be one of those sports like gymnastics or golf,
where you know, a child basically people can tell you know,
oh this kid's special and if we nurture this talent,
who knows where it could go. Looking back on that
time in your life, what do you remember. I remember
getting started early. Um, you know, I played my my

(03:36):
first tournament when I was six years old, lost six
oh six oh, which is as as bad as you
could possibly do. I play, I tried to play when
I was young. I mean, I love I did love
it and was passionate about it. When I started playing
the other sports, I stopped playing, but loved it and
loved growing up, you know, growing up watching Borg and
McEnroe and and all those guys. So I know I'm

(03:58):
a big tennis fan. UM. No, yeah, it's um, you know,
you got you you start early. Life expectancy on um.
You know, in tennis is not as long as you
would think being a non contact sport, you know, as
you know are are you know, it's a lot of
running obviously, so like joints and hips and knees and
stuff like that. Feet, um, you know, take the brunt

(04:21):
of it, um, and we're running around on concrete for
the most part. So um, you know, it's uh sometimes
an hour, sometimes five hours, you know, and that's that's
one of the hard things about tennis, right is that,
like you get out there and you can train for
whatever you want to train for, but it could you know,
you could play a I played plenty of Grand Slam
matches where I won or lost in an hour and

(04:42):
a half and and and a bunch of them where
I've played over four hours, and you can't. You know,
it's really hard to prepare for that. Um, you sort
of have to prepare for the four and hope it
coach shorter than that. But um, but that's you know,
that's kind of how it started, and you know, it's
sort of fast forwarding through out your career and to
the end you're you know, I retired when I was

(05:03):
thirty two years old, and you know for a bunch
of different reasons, which we'll get into, i'm sure, but um,
you know, why why did you retire so early? It's like, well,
you know, I've been playing I've been playing tournaments since
I was six years old. People don't understand that I I
played professionally for sixteen years, but uh played tournament since
I was six. So it's a it's a it's a
long time to do anything that wear and tear. I

(05:25):
feel you. Um, and I was retired at thirty two
as well. But again he started playing when you're in
grade school, you know, and and serious about it. When
was it clear to you that tennis was going to
be a really big thing in your life? And you
remember how you felt about that at all? Um? You know, look,
I I love sports, always have always loved sports. Uh.
You know, born in Minnesota, moved to Florida when we

(05:48):
were around four or five years old. Um, still keeping
the roots of Minnesota sports, um in my blood and
and rooting for them Timberwolves, Vikings, Twins, Gophers. Even though
I didn't go to college, my dad went to University
of Minnesota, so I root for the Gophers. So like
die hard, die hard Minnesota sports fan. Um. Again, I
love sports. I loved playing all kinds of sports, so

(06:10):
I played. I played high school basketball. I played you know,
baseball up until I was like thirteen or fourteen until
I kind of had to stop. Um, and played competitive
golf until I was fourteen as well. Um. When I
was fifteen, I moved over to a place called Saddlebrook Academy,
which is over in a little north of Tampa, Florida. UM,

(06:30):
to spend my sophomore year of high school there and see, um,
I was ranked about fifty in the state of Florida
at the time, which was fine, probably would have gotten
me an education, you know, free education somewhere, um, but
certainly not professionally by no means. Um. And I went

(06:51):
to Saddlebrook, started spending and I grew up in a
small town in Florida via Beach, Florida, and um it
went over and started playing against people that were better
than me every day. Um and and got to where
I uh, I went from you know, fifty in the
state that next year to number one in the state
and probably top couple in the country. UM. My living

(07:13):
at home though, right, How was that it was a
little high school different? Yeah, I mean, you know, at
first I wasn't driving. Um, you know, I was fifteen
years old, and and I'm very close with my parents,
my dad and my mom and and so yeah, I
mean it wasn't looking back, I mean, you know that
parts not easy. We weren't that far away, straight across

(07:36):
the state, maybe two and a half hour drivers, So
my parents came over all the time. UM. I'd go
back and see my friends because again, like this is
a sacrifice that people sort of forget is that, like
I didn't have that normal upbringing where you know, I'd
go visit my friends at Florida State or something like that,
and like, you know, I missed that college experience. I
didn't have it. I didn't have the normal high school

(07:57):
experience that that other kids had. So you know, I
went to a sort of a specialized school where I
went to school for three hours which probably felt like
twenty minutes and uh a day, and I'd play before
and after school all day every day, you know, and
and and got a lot better. Uh, let's talk about
Andy Roddick in your relationship with him and his family.

(08:18):
Tell me about how that all came to be. Yeah. So, um,
after that sophomore year in high school, I went back
to Verreau Beach, um and sort of spent like the
first quarter, um or maybe half a semester at high
school and VIAU Beach. And I knew I was a
different tennis player. And I knew that, you know, probably
my career trajectory would likely either take me to whatever

(08:41):
college I wanted to play at for maybe a year
or so, or just take me straight professionally. Um. I
always wanted to be a professional athlete, Like I didn't
necessarily care what sport honestly, like I, you know, tennis
just happened to be the one that was best at. UM.
I loved tennis, don't get me wrong, but but that
one was the one I was best at. So there
was a gap there where uh Andy and I and

(09:04):
UM a few other guys maybe five total guys. UM.
They were very highly ranked in the country, went down
to train with a guy named Stanford bost He was
like a hard nosed uh If you didn't bring enough
rackets to practice, if he didn't bring extra grip, if
you didn't bring an extra pair of shoes or something
like that, he'd dropped you off UM at one of

(09:25):
the exits on nine until you to run home. You know,
it's sort of ten miles or eight miles or whatever.
It was so like very you know, like really good
for us, really good for like a punk kid sixteen
years seventeen years old, thinks he's better than he is
or knows he's really good, kind of kind of kid. UM.
And we were all good kids, but we knew we
were good. We were cocky too, and and so he

(09:47):
was really really good for us, UM in terms of
putting us in our place, making us work really really hard. UM.
And and he was the guy that we shared a
coach with, so I didn't have anywhere to to really live. UM.
Some of the guys lived with Stanford and his wife,
and I didn't necessarily want to do that. Andy and
I were real close, so you know, they invited me

(10:08):
to to basically live as as Andy's new brother at
his house. And um, and he had an older brother
named John, who was a very very highly ranked junior
player and good collegiate player at the University of Georgia. UM.
So they had some tennis blood in them as well.
And UM and Andy was special for sure, and you knew, UM,

(10:30):
you knew that he was really unique, um in terms
of on the tennis court. And uh, well, because he
he had this competitiveness, you know. And you always say like, oh,
he's so competitive, you know, like every athletes competitive. I
feel like again, and this is like the same thing
with like there's two sets of athletes. In my opinion,
there's also two sets of like competitiveness in athletes. I

(10:52):
think one hates to lose, which wasn't necessarily me like
that was John McEnroe, Like he just hated to lose,
Like he could not stand losing. Right, That wasn't me.
I love to win. That was me. Like, so it's
either you hate to lose or you love to win.
And he hated to lose and he loved to win.
And it was like that, Like there was that like

(11:12):
competitiveness that you just don't see very often. Um. And
if I look back at like my career and the
guys that I played throughout my um sort of tenure,
and I was obviously lucky to play the Feds and
the Dolls and Djokovic's and those guys. Um, he was
like a latent Hewitt and a the Doll sort of
wrapped into one where, Um, he would refuse to give

(11:34):
in it all. He was feisty, He was nasty, tell
you anything you didn't want to hear on the court.
He'd get into it with you. He'd try and hit
you with a serve. I mean he was he had
this monster serve and he was just nasty, you know,
like in turn on the court, you know, and like,
did you guys get along like brothers? So we weren't
best friends, we were brother We fought at everything. We fought.

(11:58):
We competed. Uh, we drove of separate cars to school
that when we were going from the same place to
the same place, because I thought I had a better
I had had a faster route than he did, you know.
Like that's what we competed at. We competed at girls
who could get you know, who's gonna date who? On
the basketball court, we play one on one obviously on

(12:18):
the tennis court, you know, and that'd go back and
forth for the most part, you know, back then. Um,
and so yeah, I mean we were we were going
through life sort of you know, high school changes and
you know, just sort of life's changes. Um. It sounds
like a great same time, you know, at the same time,

(12:40):
you know, and like and yeah, I mean we the
best I could put it is just we weren't friends.
We were we were brothers like you know, and and
just fought at everything, literally everything. What what were your
early years like on the tour? And if you don't mind,
can you explain how going pro in tennis and working
your way up? How does that? Um, So it's it's

(13:03):
all I mean, tennis is really uh tough in terms
of there's only one thing that you're that you're judged by,
and it's the number by your name, you know, and
like that ranking is all that we really have to
go by and engulf. It's a they have a two
year ranking system, so it's like you're not as stressed

(13:24):
to like, you know, to continue to show real yeah,
just like have results after results after result, and also
not looking forward or ahead or or looking at the
last twelve months or twelve months ago and going, oh,
we'll shoot, I made the final last year, so um,
you know, I got this to defend and these amount

(13:45):
of points to defend and stuff. Wouldn't that Why wouldn't
tennis do that? We tried, They tried. Two thousand and eleven,
Nadal came around to all the guys in the top
ten and said, you know, even him, who's who was
you know, one or two in the world at the time,
or really the entire career. So he went around and
tried to get everybody that was in the top ten

(14:05):
to sign a petition that said, can we change the
ranking system to a two year ranking system? Because even
someone like him, who was gaining thousands of points um
more than everyone else, still was stressed about the process
of of every twelve months. Um uh, you know, having
to defend, defend, defend ranking points so like, and since

(14:27):
the ranking is all we sort of have to go by, um,
it can be draining mentally being a professional athlete in
any sport. That's difficult. Due to the spotlight and scrutiny
you and your teammates face, Marty and other tennis players
have to go at it alone. He offered us a

(14:49):
unique perspective on being a ranked solo player, especially when
your peers and dear friends are ranked ahead of you.
Marty had a solid career, but admittedly think it could
have been better, a tale consistent with many athletes who
look back at their careers a road riddled with regret
is one I can relate to. But hearing it from

(15:10):
Marty's perspective on how the pounding he took on the
concrete really paints the picture for what was coming next.
So you're on the tour, You're in the mix a bunch,
but I guess fair to say you weren't a top
player in the upper echelon. What was that like? Did

(15:33):
you just enjoy competing and traveling or enjoying the game
or was it killing you to win? It was hard
watching someone like Andy b number one in the world,
and you know, because I always rooted for them, but
that didn't mean that I didn't want to be ranked
ahead of them, you know, or or beat them all
the time. It was one of those things where I
just didn't understand the full dedication that it took UM

(15:57):
to get everything out of it. I was very um
up and down. My results were very mixed. I could
beat anyone, um I had. I beat Federer in in
less than an hour. UM in Indian Wells one year
in the semifinals, a huge match, probably the best match
I've ever played. Uh. And then I would I wouldn't
you know, And I'd make the final of a massive tournament,

(16:19):
get my ranking back, you know, from eighty to to thirty.
And then I wouldn't you know, Then I'd lose a
bunch of first rounds in a row. You know. I
just was not consistent at all. I didn't do a
good job of taking care of my body. Um. That's
certainly one of the first things that I would have changed.
You know. Those athletes sort of they're just like, oh,
I have no regrets. You know, if you're lying to yourself,

(16:40):
you know, like if you don't have any regrets, like
so one of my regrets certainly would have been to
take care of my body better earlier. Um, it just
wasn't something that we did back then, you know, two
thousand one, two thousand, two thousand three. It wasn't a
huge emphasis on your body take care of your body.
There also wasn't like back then, if I when I

(17:00):
remember like high school and like late high school or
early like, it was it was cool to like sort
of slack off back then. And you know, that's changed
a lot over the years. It's like, you know, with
all these I'm looking, I've got like my office slash
jim here, my my COVID office slash gym here in
l A. And I've got a peloton over here, and
a tonal over there and a peloton and I do

(17:22):
mixed martial arts, so I've got a boxing bag over
here and kickboxing back and like it's cool now to
like be fit and to work out and to like,
you know, do that, but back then it wasn't. It
was like it was kind of cool to show people
I didn't care quite as much. You know, that is
not the only thing that Americans are excited about as
the new American number one, Marty Fish is taking on

(17:45):
world number two and undefeated No. Back Djokovic. Fish surpassed
Andy Roddick for the number one spot after Roddick, as
the defending champion, fell out of his first match and
fourteen seated. Fish defeated the likes of Julian bennetto, Richard Gascay, one,
Martin del Poto, and David for Aren's succession, Fish can
potentially enter the top ten in the ranking. Let's jump

(18:07):
ahead to or maybe, Uh that offseason you decided if
it was really possible, if you could push your body
and train like never before, and your trainer says in
the dock that you lost like thirty pounds, which you
already were an elite athlete. What was that like to
hit that other level and what was that motivation? Uh? Yeah,

(18:27):
it's a great question and one that I had, Like
desperately isn't the word, but I definitely wanted to try
and get into shape. I knew I could be in
better shape. I wasn't like overweight where you're like, oh,
look at that guy walking down the street, he's overweight.
I was overweight in terms of that's a professional athlete overweight,
you know, and so you know that sort of Uh,

(18:50):
let's see that fall. I had a knee issue that
that needed surgery, um, and it was because I was
just it was too heavy, I was pounding too much
on my knee and the cartilage had some cartilage damage.
You need it cleaned out. And it wasn't like a
super invasive surgery. It wasn't like a crazy one. It
was like at the time, I was two two oh three, uh,
two oh three, but I'm I was I'm six three,

(19:12):
six four with shoes on six three. But but I'm
not like I wasn't six three, two oh three jacked
like no, no, no, Like I was like shaped like
a pair kind of and like oh yeah, yeah, I
still had baby fat on me when I was twenty
seven years old, Like I don't know if that's baby
fat anymore, dude, or is just fat? So uh So

(19:33):
I finally felt like I had the time, um, you know,
because like our off seasons like six weeks long. So
if you're healthy, it's brutal to be able to try
and do that. You can't do much in six weeks. Um,
And I knew I had our my surgery September twenty eight,
two thousand nine. The reason I remember that because something
I was my first one year anniversary of my wife
and wedding. So, um, what a one year anniversary to

(19:55):
go under the knife and and do some rehab after U.
And so my my trainer and I and my wife too,
we we all sort of set out didn't have kids
at the time, and we hired a chef. Um very
you know, kind of low you know, low budget sort
of thing though, like you know, twenty five bucks an
hour kind of thing. You know, it wasn't create a
couple hours a day. Uh. She found, got the food, cooked,

(20:19):
the food, told us how many calories were in there.
My my trainer would sort of calorie count estimate what
I burned, um, what was going in. So we watched
every single thing that went in my body for about
three months a note to see the transformation. Just just diet.
So the first six weeks it just felt it flew off.

(20:40):
And that's not normally the case, you know, like it
takes time. And I you know, we're under five to
seven hundred calories every day on purpose, um, you know,
and I was eating like hundred calories a day, which
is not a lot of I mean, if you like,
you go have a cheeseburger and a fry and that's it.
That's all you can eat that day. Um So, I

(21:00):
clearly I wasn't needing that stuff. But that's just to
get you know, give me an example, obviously, you know,
but give you example. And um So, the first six
weeks I was starving. First eight weeks or so, I
was starving, you know, And I thought I was the
fittest athlete in the world in terms of like anaerobic,
Like you tell me to run, I'll run. You tell
me you do this, I'll do this until you tell
me to stop. And I won't complain. I won't do anything.

(21:22):
I won't I'll just do it. And um So I
went to the first tournament and I'm, you know, and
again I've still got this knee issue and like I'm
you know, rehabbing that and take care of that and stuff.
And I feel like it's different, you know, go down
to Australia, have you know a little bit, you know,
when a few matches. But I'm just I feel different.
I go to any wells loose first round, feel a
little different to go to Miami, and I beat Miami.

(21:44):
I beat one one match and then beat Andy Murray
was a defending champion um in straight set second round.
And again like I always knew, I had that, like
I had that one or two matches in me that
I could beat anyone. But it was the consistency that
never was there. So then I won the next round,
the next round, and like, okay, well still though, you know,
that's one tournament, you know, And so i'd go and

(22:04):
I go to Houston and I you know, that's on
clay courts, and I'm like okay, and you know, i'd
play a good match, and you know, play a long time,
and I feel like I could play forever. So I
get to the French and this is may of that
my results hadn't necessarily come yet. But I knew something
was different, you know, and I didn't I didn't understand

(22:27):
it until And clay was always my worst surface because
my game was tailored. I was a faster court player.
I you know, it's just the way I was. That's
the way I played. I played, I came to the net,
I played better on grass, played better on faster services.
Just the way I played. I didn't dislike clay. I
just wasn't very good on it. And U and I
won my first round in five sets. And then I

(22:49):
played uh if on Lubachich. I think it was, you know,
four or five in the world, time great player, a
great clay court player, and I lost to him, like
but over a two day match where it was like one,
you know, we were in the fifth that was like
four all in the fifth or four all in the
three all in the fifth. We had to come back
next day because of darkness. UM, and it end up

(23:09):
going like twelve or like twelve ten or fourteen twelve
or something. I lost in the fifth set, but dude,
I came off. I walked off the court and I
was like I could play another five sets right now.
And that right there was like it clicked, and I
was like something like, this is different. This is different.
I could play differently. I can play different styles. Um,

(23:30):
I could play a clay court style of tennis. I
could play a grass court style of tennis. UM went
to uh Cincinnati and made the final of that tournament,
loss of federal and a really really tight match. All
of a sudden, I'm ranked like twenty five in the world.
And I know I'm different man, Like I just like
I made the fourth round of of the US Open

(23:50):
and I won't made the final a Tokyo lost in Nadal.
I made the you know whatever. So fast forward to
you know, that off season and off season into my
best year. Kept going the next year, uh, that offseason,
pushing harder and harder, not taking any any time off

(24:10):
to like you know, reset my mind or anything. Um.
And that's kind of where the the expectations changed a lot.
It seemed like, you know, from the getting though that season,
it was like you're it was almost like you were
gonna have issues. Then the condition with your heart right
and you know you're also starting to have you know,

(24:31):
a panic attack here, and I just ladd an excuse
to have it, you know, like my body needed like
an excuse to have some sort of trauma to where
I was like, Okay, I'm gonna dwell on that for
a while. UM. I had an issue with my heart
called tachycardia, fairly common. It's like an electricity issue around
your heart. There's a bunch of electricity electroids around your

(24:53):
heart and when they fire tells your heart to beat.
There's like thousands of them. So when it fired, puppump, fire, bump,
and they can malfunction, and when they malfunction, your heart
doesn't know but to beat because they're firing. So I
trained at an incredible rate where I would follow my
heart rate at all times. I would have a heart
rate monitor on when I trained, and so I would

(25:14):
try and get What I do is I try to
get my heart rate up to as high as it
could possibly go, and then in twenty five to thirty seconds,
which is all we have in between points, I try
to get it as low as I could get it too,
and then do it over again, and just do it
over and over and over in training, right, Um, I
knew that I couldn't get my heart to beat more
than a hundred ninety two beats per minute. I never
saw it higher than that. So and that was that

(25:37):
was my threshold. Everyone's different, but that was my threshold.
One nine two. I'll never forget it. And um, I
would have these electricity episodes where they're malfunctioning and they
were just firing like uncontrollably in your my heart again,
my heart didn't know but to beat, and it was
beating at like two beats per minute, like, so I'm
thinking as uneducated about the heart as I was, Um,

(26:00):
my heart's gonna like blow up or something like what
you know, because why is it going this fast? I
couldn't get it this fast. And from there it just
started spiraling to where I was like I fixed the issue,
but never really fixed the issue in my mind. Um
And and just over time that summer, I took off
the French to have that procedure. UM. I started in Wimbledon,

(26:24):
continue to have some good results because again like Wimbledon,
grass was my best surface. And then I'd go into
the US hardcourt season and that was again probably the
best part of the season of you know that that
I had throughout the year. And so I had some success,
I beat some good players, lost to you know, lost
some really good players whatever, and uh, you know, just

(26:45):
slowly over that summer it was just started deteriorating. My
mind was going into places anxiety wise that I just
had never been before, never understood, but you know I have.
I didn't I wasn't around anyone with any mental health
issues unfortunately, so I didn't know what was going on.
Um And I didn't gather it until it was too late, really,

(27:06):
and um, you know that sort of fast forward into
the US Open. Physically, Marty Fish had been going through
a lot on and off the court. His struggles with
his weight, heart and body were well documented. But the
powder keg was about to be lit ablaze because of

(27:27):
a battle within the fragility of the human spirit. As
akin to a house of cards, pull one and they
all can come tumbling down. Most deal with this in private.
Marty dealt with it heading to the grandest stage in
the sport of tennis while preparing to face the greatest
of all time. So you're playing Roger, and tell me

(27:54):
about it, And what do you realize now that you
look back on it and you know so much more
about yourself and mental health. Yeah, that's a great question.
You know. It's like, what could I have done differently?
I guess I could have spotted it earlier, could have
talked about it earlier, I mean not could have, definitely
could have or should have. UM, But me being uneducated

(28:16):
on in that world, UM, didn't really allow me to
do that. Um, I didn't know. And so I get
in the car heading to the US Open to play
what is you know, the pinnacle of our sport? You know,
the fourth round or you know deep, you know, middle
or deep into a Grand Slam, which happens to be
the biggest term of the year, the US Open, the
one the US players want to win the most, or

(28:38):
want to do well the most. Playing Roger Feder on
Labor Day weekend, the greatest player of all time. I mean,
this is the match that I trained and sacrificed so
much to get to right And not for a second
would I have thought, you know, for how bad I felt.
Anxiety attacks, panic attacks every fifteen minutes of the day.

(28:59):
Uh No, no reprieve at all, dude, Like, just none whatsoever.
And I'm in the transportation headed to the courts with
my wife, my trainer, and my coach is already at
the courts getting ready. You know, it's sort of getting ready,
getting everything ready to go, ball's practice, you know, all
that stuff, and obviously it's a big day for everyone.
And um, and I'm crying in the car. I'm not

(29:20):
a crier at all. And UM, I don't know what
I'm gonna do. I don't know, you know, I'm gonna
I'm gonna go out there somehow, I'm gonna lose to Fetters.
You know and pretty quick fashion, I'm sure, and you know,
in front of millions of people watching and thousands of
people there or whatever, and I'm thinking about all this stuff,
and you know, and and as athletes as you know,

(29:41):
like we're an especially individual athletes and especially tennis, like
we are trained at a really young age to never
show the other, to show the opponent how we're feeling,
how we're doing, We're tired, are we pissed? Um? I
wasn't great at that part of the upset part um
the negative energy and stuff I I was pretty outward about.

(30:03):
But the the other stuff, Um, I would hide it.
If I was tired, I would hide it. If I
was hot, I would hide it. If it was you know,
I would. I would never show that weakness ever. Right,
And so driving to the courts that day, I needed
someone like my wife who hadn't grown up, or someone
in my support system who hadn't grown up like that

(30:26):
in that lifestyle, because like you, if you and I
were sitting in there, you never would have thought of
it to go, hey, dude, you know you don't have
to play like you never would have thought that, and
I never would have thought that ever. And so thank God,
my wife was there to where she you know again,
didn't grow up in that lifestyle or that, you know, like, hey,
you're you're forced to do this, Like you get out there,

(30:47):
god damn it, and you do. And you get out
there now and you don't say a word and you
go beat that guy, you know kind of thing she
says to me, you know, you don't have to play,
and like right away, this's like weight just lifted off
my shoulders. And I was like, oh my god, I
don't actually have to play. And I never, dude, in
my wildest dreams, I never would have thought that ever.

(31:09):
So if she wasn't there, I would have you know,
I don't know, I would have stepped out there, I
would try to play. I would have been worse off,
I'm sure. Um. And it made me feel better. It
made me feel better right away when she said that
when I didn't have to play, it made me feel better. Um,
when I knew that I could go home, you know,
like I've been on the road awhile and like reset

(31:31):
and try and get some help, try and get a
doctor and some medication and just some therapy or something,
just something to help me because I was so desperate.
I was so bad, dude, I mean, I was so
I was in such a bad place that I you know,
I thought maybe I was gonna I was afraid I
was gonna hurt myself. I was afraid I was gonna
hurt someone around me. Um And luckily, and it's you know,

(31:52):
number one for me in terms of the mental health
is a support system. If you don't have a support
system that understands and is allowing you to be vulnerable
and allowing you to be open and listening, and if
you don't have that, man, it can we see the
I mean we see suicide rates. We see suicide rates
and children, we see you know, people on the street,

(32:13):
homeless people. I mean there's those people aren't aren't well
and they were okay at one point. And so that's
a huge part for me, is that support system. If
I didn't have the support system I had, there's no
talent where I'd be today. Yeah same here man. Uh,
thank goodness for her. How did you get charged in
the court of public opinion after withdrawing from the match?
You know, what was the stigma around mental health at

(32:34):
that time in sports and in society. Yeah, Luckily, it
was early on in the social media craze. Um so,
like you know, I had Twitter, I think, but it
wasn't um as toxic. I was recognizable, I guess because
I was the number one American and I had played
some big matches that those couple of years or whatever,

(32:55):
and so people would you know. I remember I was
on the plane heading back to back home that after
that us open and oh man, what happened to you?
You know, are you okay? You know kind of stuff
like just on the plane and it just felt really uncomfortable.
Um So I stayed home. I stayed home for like
four straight months. I didn't do anything. If I left

(33:16):
my house, I went to the psychiatrist. That was the
only time I left my house. I don't want to
get too dark here or make you relive it too much.
It does seem that after the withdrawal you really kind
of spiraled and uh, we're in a lot of pain
and crisis. How did you eventually start to work your
way out of that? And how long did it take
to even want to start to do that work? Yeah,

(33:37):
um well I wanted to start it right away because
I was really bad. Um I wanted to get my
life back. I wanted to get back to playing a
round of golf with my buddies and having a beer,
like you know, as simple as that. Um. I was
far away from it. Um at the time. UM, I
felt like it was never gonna happen. Um. So I

(33:57):
was desperate to get help. Um that was obviously a
blessing in disguise. I'm sure, like just wanting to do that,
being open to seeing someone being vulnerable with someone, you know,
a doctor that I've never met before. Um so um
uh you know it took four months. Was the was
the first time we left the house to not go
to the doctor. It was to go to a movie.

(34:19):
UM had a Zanex in my pocket. I never didn't
like Xanex. I never took it. I never wanted to
take it. UM, but I knew that if it was
there in my back pocket that I would feel a
little bit more comfortable. We sat in that the first
seat next to the exit, so I could leave right
away if I didn't, you know, kind of thing. I
don't know what manifest how would manifest? It could be anything.

(34:39):
Man it could have been, you know, did I eat
too much and like my stomach was a little full,
and then I you know, just if I felt off
at all, you know, if I had, I'm battling if
you can hear it or not, but I'm battling like
a head cold, chest cold right now. Man, ten years
nine years ago, I'd be freaking out, like what's wrong
with me? Yeah? Like I was desperate for the help.

(35:00):
So we were really lucky we found a psychiatrist. It
was really good. UM put me on some medication that
I still take to this day. That was really good. UM.
I take Lexapro. I take milligrams alexe pro every day.
I'm not afraid to admit that medication exactly the same stuff. Yeah,
same type of stuff. It was just what was better

(35:20):
for each individual. And that's one thing that I you
know that like as people. UM, I've had a lot
of conversations about mental health, which is great, trying to
educate people, and that was one thing that was so
beneficial for you know, with the doc coming out, was
just to try and educate people on what mental health is, uh,
trying to spot it, trying to just be helpful to

(35:42):
other people, UM, people you don't know or whatever, because it's,
in my opinion of uh, sort of a physical injury.
I mean, it's your brain. Your brain is part of
your body. And I know they call it mental health,
but I think it's physical. It's just not an injury
that you can see. Um. It's not like an ankle
injury that you change your sprained your ankle in the
end A and you I can see that, I can
see you limping around. You can't see my issues with

(36:05):
mental health because they're internal and UM. So it really
helped me in you know, not judging people, UM, not
judging why people do certain things, why they believe certain things, um,
because you just never know what somebody's dealing with on
a daily basis. So you know, that was the sort
of the main goal was just to just to be
open about give someone a success story and be open

(36:28):
about my issues and what I struggled with and how
there's you know, A you're not alone and there's tens
of millions of Americans that deal with mental health issues
every day. UM. And again it's just you never know
everybody's dealing with something. Everybody has issues and some people
can handle them better than others and some people can't.
Doesn't make you less of a person, less of a man,

(36:50):
less of a woman. UM. It just means that UM
in your world and your bubble mental health doesn't care
what you do for a living. They don't care if
you're an x mb A player, next tennis player, an
next athlete, or a journalist now, or a podcaster now
or whatever. UM. Everyone's bubble and everyone's world is their own.
We're all trying to, you know, trying to do well

(37:11):
for each other and our families and trying to provide.
And and I don't care if you're you know, garbage
man or contractor construction work or anything like the guy
that that cuts my my lawn is still trying to
provide for his family. And he could have the same
mental health issues that I did. UM, And so it's
not like mine were tougher or bigger than anyone else's.

(37:32):
I think it's really important for people to understand that,
you know, I'm so glad you said that. So often
people don't realize when someone's struggling, but sometimes we don't
even fully understand or recognize it in ourselves. Do you
still have ways and methods and check ins to make
sure you know that you're doing what you need to do.

(37:53):
I actually had a rough day yesterday because I wasn't
feeling that well. Um, I just mentioned I had like
a coal. I had like these chess cold, you know,
and this COVID things going around Apparently it's in your
respiratory and like I haven't had COVID, but like it's
I you know, it's a respiratory thing. People say they
don't breathe very well or whatever, and like I got
tested and I don't have it, but like, you know,

(38:14):
I got a chess cold, and like before COVID, I
got a chess coal. You're like, all right, we'll get going,
Like what's the big deal, you know whatever. And it's
just my you know, your mind can just sort of
spiral into places that are uncomfortable and um, and so
I had a bad day yesterday. And so what I
do is I, um, you know, and this is a
personal thing, not personal like I don't want to tell people,

(38:34):
but personal, like just to me. This helps me is that, Um,
I try and take my mind. I try and change
the channel on negative thoughts. I call it like literally
just like a remote control. I try and change the channel.
And so what I do is I'll take my mind too.
I love golf, so like I'll take my mind to
a golf course. My favorite golf course in the world
is like small city in North Carolina and no one's

(38:56):
ever heard of. And it's not even that, you know,
it's a nice golf course and pretty and North Carolina
and the Blue Ridge Mountains, but like it's not like Augusta,
you know, anything like that. And like I'll take my
mind there and I'll be super detailed and vivid about
what I'm doing, um like the what is the smell
in the air, what is the weather? Like? What color
is all the way down to like the number on

(39:17):
my golf ball? And what what color is my tea?
And rex I'll tell you, dude, like and I'll play
every shot. So I'll play. I'll hit every shot, you know,
and every shot is perfect, beautiful shot, beautiful drive. You know,
a little baby draw dog leg right up the hill.
Part five, you know his second shot on the green,
I'll make eagle, you know, every time I'm make an eagle,
you know part three, next hole, very vivid in detail

(39:38):
right with like with what I'm doing. Um So my
mind is I'm trying. I'm changing the channel I'm internally
my mind is changing from how I'm feeling and this
anxiety or panic or depression or whatever that I'm having
is now I'm changing my mind to so a happy
place for me. Um, I've never gotten to the fourth
hole in my entire life. Me thing that like I get, yeah,

(40:02):
and like it does work. It's you know, for me,
it works where I can change the channel on my
negative thoughts right right there. Um. It takes you know,
five six, seven, eight, nine minutes. But again I'm very detailed.
I don't think for a second about how I'm feeling. Um,
and that works for me. So like if anyone's listening

(40:23):
to this or does listen to this and they're like, man,
I don't know how to get my mind out of it. Um,
I wouldn't say it's easy, but there are ways to
do it. And that is a way. What I would
suggest is trying to you know, like if it was
you and you're you know you for it was someone
who loves basketball, take yourself to that Jim that you
have a pickup game at every Wednesday morning at eight o'clock,

(40:44):
and like put yourself in a game and be super
detailed and vivid with the all the way down to
the to the basketball to what you're wearing to what
the other guys are wearing. The shoes you got these
perfect Steph Curry shoes on brand new, you know whatever,
and then all of a sudden, I guarantee you man,
you won't even get to five all in the in
the game, and you'll be like, Okay, I feel okay now,

(41:05):
and definitely trying. I'm definitely trying because I can work
my way into a bad mood like nobody's business. You know,
before I know it, I'm I've gone down a rabbit hole.
So I'm definitely going to try to employ it that
you know, you've gone and you've done the work on yourself.
You've you've seen a psychologist. You you're doing everything that
you can do, and then you're feeling well enough to

(41:27):
get back out there. What did it mean to play
that doubles match with Andy? After all these years later?
Andy Roddick is returning to tennis, well for one tournament
at least. The former world number one announced he's going
to be partnering with his good buddy Marty Fish in
doubles at the Atlanta Open next month. Marty Fish, you
may have heard, has been coping with some anxiety disorders

(41:48):
in recent years. He plans to play singles in Atlanta
as well. The two time former Atlanta champion made his
ATP return back in March, losing it Indian Wells. Marty,
who is now a father to son Beckett, is not
committing to a full time comeback as he continues to
face some emotional challenges. That was great. Um. There was

(42:10):
only one player that I would want to play that
match with, um, and that was him. And conversely, there
was only one player that he was going to come
back and play with, and that was me. And so
it was. It was perfect. Um. We weren't trying to
win the tournament, dude. We were never going to win
the tournament. I mean, we were happy to win a match,
to be honest with you. He was old and fat,
and and I was and I and I had played

(42:31):
a double's magic forever and up and ripped up. Now
I was okay, I got myself back in shape. I
knew how to do that. I knew I know how
to get myself back in shape. I also know how
to get myself out of shape really well too now.
But but no, he he, UM, that was super special.
I'll never forget that, UM, never forget you know, sort

(42:51):
of asking him if he would like to do that,
him having to re enter the drug testing pool. You know, uh,
those gummies, they're not allowed taking those right now. And
so he sacrificed that for me when she's good for
him for for a week but now, but um, but
it was great. It was also great, Um. Look, I

(43:13):
wanted personally, I wanted to jump back in the fire play.
I wanted to get back to the US Open. That
was my ultimate goal. It was never about winning the
tournament or even winning a match. I wanted to finish
my career at the place that had taken all of
it away from me. Um. And I was able to
do that. I was able to still do it at
a fairly high level. I did win my first match,

(43:34):
I should have won my second and served for the match.
And this is like a competitor tennis area, like let
me let me dwell on the last match I played,
because let me tell you that it wasn't about winning
when um, I felt out, um, and then ultimately it
was just giving folks that success story that I didn't
necessarily have when I was going through it. Because I

(43:56):
mentioned that I was a big sports fan and um,
worches has been my whole life and really only been
my my whole life. And so um, I love all sports.
I watch everything from mixed martial arts all the way
down to European soccer to you know, European football to
you know, to every mainstream support here, right. And I

(44:16):
was desperately as I was going through this process in
two thousand twelve, looking for someone in sports that like
I could lean on and go, well, there's there's a
man or woman that was successful, had it taken away
from them, whether it be you know, mental health of anxiety, panic, depression,
whatever it was, and then and then ultimately got it
back and was you know, played again at a high level.

(44:38):
I didn't have that and um, and so ultimately that
was the goal was to come out with a story
in the players Tribune, um, which is which I love.
I love that sort of um medium of with athletes,
to be able to write, you know, write what we
want to write and have it narrated by us and
you know, and all that and then and come out

(44:58):
with a piece there and my last tournament and then
ultimately you know, have them and and Netflix partnered together
and just have that that platform of Netflix which is
just enormous. Um. It was a perfect storm with this
documentary because not only do I love the Player's Tribune
and net and obviously the platform that Netflix gives, but um,

(45:19):
the guys who too directed and produced the doc the
Way Brothers, Mac and chap Way there unbelievable. Um. If
you've ever if you love documentaries, and and um, if
you're ever on Netflix or whatever they've they've done in
a couple of documentaries called one called Wild Wild Country,
which one a bunch of Emmy's phenomenal dock um battered
bastards of baseball, phenomenal doc I mean they're just like

(45:42):
geniuses at a young age. And they had a history
of tennis, a small history of mental health as well.
It was a perfect storm of all things coming together. Um.
And then on top of it, we filmed in two
thousand eighteen and COVID took a bit of a hit
because it's a five part series and they had to
film them all. They had to all, you know, they
had to all be done for them to release the all,

(46:03):
and they weren't. And they weren't done. We were supposed to.
It was supposed to come out April, um and took
a while to have them all film and finish, And
it's funny how you know, and I watched them all
and seeing the others and they're all great. Um, they're phenomenal,
but um, the one that you know, they're they're all

(46:24):
sort of stories, this one, you know, mine of mental
health and sort of getting a grasp on it and
and um championing mental health and and being open and
vocal about it. Um seemed to be. It's funny how
it came into place with the timing right, like, because
again it was supposed to come out a year and
a half ago, and a year and a half ago,

(46:46):
we weren't Like Tyson Fury wasn't talking about his mental
health after winning the you know, after defending his belt,
Naomi Osaka was not talking about not wanting to chat
with the media at the friendch open and how she's
not you know, doesn't do well with the meat and
her mental health and Simone Biles, uh, you know, having
the twisties and not you know, people not understanding what

(47:06):
that is and and not even people being open and
okay with her. Um. You know, it's just a bummer.
A lot of the you know, you get a lot
of like men who would come out and see those
women and they just go, oh, toughen up, you know,
and like we know who they are, right, we we
know exactly who we're talking about. And like it's a
bummer because that just shows me a, UM, they're just

(47:30):
uneducated on the topic, um of mental health. And that's okay,
like that not everybody understands mental health because if you've
never been through it, like you and I have, it's
really difficult to understand. You can be um more open
or like, you know, okay with their decisions, UM then
people were, but it's really difficult to understand it. And

(47:52):
like do you really think that Like I know Naomi
really well and I know her that she really understands
her place in history. She wants to be one of
the greatest female tennis players ever. She feels like she
can do it. And for her to win two straight
slams US Open in Australia and then play the French
and pull out, um going for three in a row

(48:12):
and you know, trying to again become one of the
best tennis players of all time. UM, really showed me
something that she was struggling with something. You know, no
one wants to pry, and I didn't even want to
pry necessarily. I sent her a text and said, hey,
I'm always here if you ever need anything, and that's that.
She didn't respond, and she didn't need to respond. Um
Simone Biles, I don't know her at all. I know
that she's the greatest female gymnast of all time. I

(48:34):
know she worked her ass off to get to this
Olympics and and the other Olympics and and you know,
winning all those gold medals and all the medals in
the World Championships and stuff. Do you really honestly think
that she would just pull out of the Olympics because
she doesn't want to lose, like, you know, so I
feel like we needed, you know, like I've seen a

(48:56):
couple uh advertisements of like a football player, you know,
coming out and saying like they, you know, they struggled
with their mental health, Like that guy's tough, right, Tyson
Fury is the definition of tough. And he struggled with
his mental health, he struggled with suicide, he struggled with addiction,
he struggled with a lot of those things. For someone
like him to come out, it just speaks those people

(49:18):
who were vocal about Naomi and Simone are pretty quiet
about Tyson Fury and myself and Kevin Love and DeMar
De Rosen and and all these other guys coming out
that um Dak Prescott, Yeah, that are saying, Man, I
really struggled with my mental health and so maybe it
needed that like sort of male dominant kind of person,

(49:42):
you know, that combat sports type of person, the gladiator
ish type of sport, because because um, it just didn't
seem like it resonated with the sort of you know,
half the country male person who's just like just act tough,
you know, like who's never played us get up there.

(50:03):
So like it's just not about that. And if you
can see the history of some of myself or you,
or Tyson Fury or these guys, like they are tough,
Like like we are tough. We were actually tougher for
coming out and being open about it, then we are
if we hadn't, I hope. So, uh so you you've

(50:23):
battled back in your year at the US Open, then
you retire. Let's talk about the Davis Cup, quickly explained
to our listeners, and then tell me about what it
meant to be asked to be the captain of the
Davis Cup team. It still sounds cool, um, even when
you say that it was two thousand, two thousand nineteen
was my first year. Um, an absolute dream job being

(50:46):
that Davis Cup, true honor. Um. Even when I play.
You know, David's Cup is different than uh, it's our
team competition for the US and tennis, okay, and um
for those who don't know, and if you follow golf
a little bit, you know the Eider Cup, UM is
similar Ryder Cup. They've got twelve players, um that make
the Ryder Cup team, several vice captains and things like that,

(51:07):
and obviously a captain. UM. So there's twelve guys that
that make that team. Um. We we get four um
every time we play. And and so four guys you know,
so I think back to obviously Andy Roddick, James Blake,
the Bran Brothers were incredible David's Cup players. So like
it was really hard to get on the team in
the first place. Um, I was really lucky to play

(51:28):
a lot in Davis Cup. I said yes every single
time I was asked. Um. I even got married like
a couple of days later and played one in Spain,
and like in a bowl ring, and like it was
just so you know, just some of my greatest memories
on the court off the court were around Davis Cups.
I've even when I was playing, I was infatuated by
the Captaincy. I just was like it was such a

(51:49):
cool like even I would just sort of study it.
And like I had some really cool captains too. I
played for John McEnroe, Patrick McEnroe and Jim Currier were
three captains that I had, And like, you know, um,
Jim Curry was really cool to have because I knew
when I sat down that, um, any scenario that I
was in the tennis court that day or that match

(52:10):
or that practice, I knew he had already been in
it tenfold, you know, So like it was just a
nice thing to feel, um when you'd sit down and
be a part of it. So I was like, even
while I was playing, I was really interested in like
what that captaincy met or what it was and just
what an honor it was. And so I've never interviewed
for anything in my life, Like I've just played tennis,

(52:32):
you know, so like I've never had to interview anything
in anything, and and so I didn't know, you know,
so like this job came up, and there are lots
of players wanted it, right, like lots of X players
wanted um, and including my friends, my closest friends who
have mentioned here before. And and I didn't know any
different but to lean on like my work ethic or

(52:56):
like my relationships and just literally call everyone that had
anything to do with it, whether I thought they did
or they didn't, I call them and I'd say, look,
this is what David's cutt meant to me, this is
what the David's Cup captaincy would mean to me. UM.
And I got it. And I was shocked that I
got it, and not shocked, and like you know, it

(53:17):
was just like I was so honored and fortunate. And
it's not a huge time consumption. Look, it's like we
play two ties a year, you know, it's like a
couple of weeks out of the year. UM. I keep
in touch with every one of the guys you know,
all the way in the top one twenties something like that. Um,
every on an every match basis, they'll get a text

(53:38):
from me or something to say, hey, good job or
bad luck, I'm thinking about you, like you know whatever.
And I love it, man, And I think Um, I
hope to a t that um that they love me
as the captain too. And I hope that we play
this year in turin Italy. Um, we play our group
as Italy and Colombia. Um. So Italy in Italy will

(53:58):
be really tough. They have some stud youngsters that are
on their team. But um, it's all you know, there's
always something special man when you put the red, white
and blue in the flag on your chest and and
you just walk around with that jacket on that track jacket.
It's just so special man, that's just amazing. I grew
up watching it myself. Finally, Mary, I want to give

(54:19):
you an open form here to talk about any part
of your experience that you think you know might have
been missed or something that you want to want the
listeners to know or understand a little bit better. Uh
what can those who relate to your story do to
seek hell? Um? Yeah, thanks? So, I mean I would
say three main things, um, just in terms of your

(54:41):
mental health would be a support system would be number
one for me. UM, getting like alerting or letting people
around you that loved, ones that love you know that
you're uh not feeling well or that um you may
have you're having these thoughts or you're uncomfortable about a
few things. UM, being open and honest and vulnerable with

(55:03):
loved ones is really important. UM. Number two, I think
and maybe this isn't necessarily in particular order, but therapy help, UM,
get help, seek help, ask for help. You can get
a psychiatrist, they can. There is medication or therapy that
can take this stuff away, really can. Like I know
that you probably and there's people that may be listening
that haven't tried medication because they don't like what it

(55:25):
makes them feel. Like lexapro for me, doesn't mess with
my cognitive frame at all. UM. It just simply adds serotonin,
a chemical that's emptied in your brain when you're having
those mental health issues. UM, and it just allows it
to enter back in your brain. UM. So there is
like at the worst cases there are there is medication

(55:47):
that you can take to get you, you know, back
to feeling better. UM. And then lastly find um, learn
from every episode that you have. UM. You know, why
did I have this on an airplane when I was
by myself? Well, maybe I had an extra cup of
coffee that day, and maybe I just had too much
caffeine and it made my heart race, and then that
made me feel uncomfortable. And that's where I got to

(56:09):
so like really learn and and sort of understand where
you are. Why, UM you feel like that. UM, maybe
you know you know yourself better than anyone else does,
and so you can sort of say, Okay, well I'm
a little more stressed right now than normal or and
you don't want anxiety or stress free life like you
do not want you can't get it. You won't get

(56:29):
out of bed if you have that. Like, so you
want and need stress in your life, but there's just
too much stress that can be put on. UM, So
just understand that. And then you know again like you're
not alone. Like they're like tens of millions of people
literally every day just in this country deal with mental health.
And just think of all the children that are dealing with,

(56:51):
you know, with this COVID and this pandemic and how
their lives have sort of been turned upside down and
and you're just you're not alone, UM, and it's they're
actually fairly normal thoughts. UM, if you just understand that
and be okay with that and be open with that, UM,
don't be too manly or or tough uh to you know,

(57:15):
to think that you know us can't happen to me it.
I promise you it does not care what you do
for a living or what your last name is. I
promise you that so um, be open, be honest, seek
help um and uh and I promise you that you'll
beat it. It won't go away, and it won't go
away forever. It just doesn't work like that. But just

(57:36):
embrace it and it will be a part of my
life forever. Um and I'll beat it every single day.
Marty Man, I can't thank you enough for joining and
being so brave letting people know about your story and
your journey with mental health. My door is always open
to you, buddy. I appreciate that and thanks for having me.
Rex Charges is created by Portalay and Control Media is

(58:05):
produced by DV Podcasts in association with I Heart Radio.
For more podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit I Heart
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