November 23, 2021 • 44 mins
For the nineteenth episode of Charges, Rex brings Ike Vallie-Flagg on the show to talk about his MMA career and how drugs changed his life. Rex & Ike discuss: How he decided to be a professional fighter, what he loves about MMA, fighting his heroes, learning fighting styles, how to get noticed, what it's like in the ring, being part of UFC, when drugs entered his life, taking opiods & how he got them, addiction, his lowest moment & Charges, his wife & recovery, what he's doing today & more. This episode is not to be missed!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
This time a former Son's player who you might remember
as t Rex. More video in just a moment, But
this is Rex Chapman's mug shun, and we are learning
a lot more about the charge of charging. I've read
where you said you struggled with drugs from an early age.
When did drugs enter your life? So the pills are
too expensive, and so somebody turned me onto heroin, and
(00:23):
I would do heroin and then I would smoke math
to make sure I could level out. Once I took
an opiate, you know, because I was taking them as prescribed,
and then I started snorting him. And once I started
snorting him, I was like, this is this? Is it?
Welcome to Charges. I'm your host, Rex Chapman. Mike Tyson
(00:45):
once said everyone has a plan until they get punched
in the mouth, but sometimes you never see what's about
to hit you. For me, I never thought the hardest
part of my career as a professional athlete would be
fighting off an addiction to painkillers opioids and fighting to
keep my relationships, my reputation, even my dignity. As a
disease was attacking all aspects of my life. That fight
(01:09):
was and is the hardest of my career as a
professional basketball player, and I never fought anybody but today's guest.
He knows exactly what it's like to get punched in
the mouth, and yet his fight and my fight are
the same, and he knows all too well how much
more pain can come from a pill than any punch
ever thrown by a human, and that includes Mike Tyson.
(01:31):
This his charges. Welcome to the show, my friend, Isaac
Valley Flag Welcome. Thanks for having me, man, I appreciate it. Man,
I'm so excited. We just kind of got to, you know,
a little bit of a Twitter relationship, and man, I've
(01:53):
followed your story on and off throughout the years. My
son is a big m M A fan, And uh,
I'm really happy for you and to see where you
are today. Thanks Ben. Yeah, it's uh, it's a cool
place to be, especially considering where I was about four
years ago, you know what I mean? And yeah, you
do know, Yeah, you do know what I mean? Right, Yeah,
And it's baby steps, man, And I was brushing up
(02:16):
on some things today and so much of it resonated. Well,
let's start here. How the hell does somebody decide I
want to be a professional fighter uh, you know, I
kinda so I had another body who we're working at
a bar, and uh, it just kind of seemed like
it was a fun thing to do. I kind of
grew up doing getting into fight street fights and stuff
(02:40):
and uh and some of our longline. Uh, they told
me I could do it and I wasn't gonna get
in trouble and uh, I might even get paid at
some point. So that was you know, that was like
m M as the early days before it was like
really as big as it was, the UFC was a thing,
but it wasn't like a thing like a force like
it is now, you know. So it was that That's
(03:02):
kind of how for you. I was early twenties, so
I gotta got into it late. Um. You know a
lot of the a lot of the guys these days,
they start doing stuff because the sports gotten so big,
they start doing stuff at a at a real young age,
you know, and it just wasn't the case when I
was younger. I just kind of dug the whole aspect
of fighting, and then then I fell in love with
(03:22):
like the more spiritual side of the fighting game too.
You know. Yeah, I was wondering about that, you know,
I've heard heard some fighters talk about how it it
really is more of an art form than about the
violence or actual fighting. What do you view it as? So? Uh?
Number one, I do love the violence of it. I mean,
you know what I mean. But there's something really uh
(03:45):
for lack of a better word, peaceful about being in there,
uh with another human being. And it's just you know,
as much as there is crowd noise and stuff, it's
just you and them like essentially locked in together and
you're really paying attention to the breathing and everything, and
you're very much in the moment, you know. And so
there there's like a real beauty to fighting. There really is,
you know, And I think that, I mean it is. Look,
(04:08):
it's violent, we're fighting each other. But at the same time,
there's a lot of people who find a certain amount
of like of of peace doing that, you know, And
I think I'm I'm one of them, and it isn't it.
You know. I obviously didn't compete like this in a
sport where you actually, you know, fight. We all talked about, well,
we went to war last night and we've battled them. No,
(04:29):
we didn't. Ye basketball the players never fight. Let's get North,
can we you know, you gotta fight somebody for three
seconds till they break you up, right right, Let's just
get that out of the way right now. No. So
I'm wondering though, But you know, playing that sport, you
know there no matter how hard you go at one another,
(04:51):
there's a mutual respect. And I gotta think that that's
you know some of it too, that piece of being
in the ring with someone else you know is a
professional and you guys are gonna I mean, I would think,
don't you sort of have a kinship even though you're
trying to kick that person's ass. So I got lucky.
I got to fight guys who are like kind of
my heroes, So I mean it was it was kind
(05:11):
of cool. Uh like Eaves Edwards and taking or Gold me.
We're uh those are the guys who I really liked
coming up and I got to fight him, you know. Uh,
So it was there is that kind of kinship, especially
when you're doing you're fighting somebody who you look up to,
you know, right, Well, tell me about the training that
somebody has to do to compete in m m A
(05:32):
and not like jumping rope and push ups, like what
it's like to learn all the fighting styles, how to
defend things all that. Uh. So the learning part, I mean,
that's the other part of it that's really cool is
you are learning a craft, you know, uh, and it's intense,
uh and it's fun. At my age, because I started
so late, I kind of was behind the curve, and
(05:55):
I really I pushed myself as hard as I could
to try to to try to catch out with these
like young guys like Cub Swanson is a really good
friend of mine and uh and he started young and
he would come out here to Albuquerque, and I always
felt like I had to work harder than him because
I didn't have the same amount of time and that
left in the sport or natural ability as him or
(06:15):
anything like that. So I always pushed myself as hard
as I could to try to get better at it.
You know, were you were you an athlete growing up?
Did you play sports? Did you? Um? Or you don't
have to play sports to be an athlete, but did
you have an athletic background growing up? Now? You know?
So I've never had a dad, so I don't know, uh,
you know, father in the house until like later on. Um,
(06:39):
and I just kind of had a hippie mom who
wrote poetry, so I don't even know if I was.
That's awesome though, Yeah, that's awesome though. But finding it's
amazing to go through, you know, twenty years of your
life and then all of a sudden, you know, it had.
I like the new sports, like in the Olympics every year.
I enjoy that. I'm so thrilled to see, you know,
(06:59):
it's a violent sport and I know you can you
only have a short window of time to do it.
But I'm really excited for, you know, there to be
another profession outside of just traditional boxing, which is that's
what it was when I was growing up. I remember
in my hometown they had something called um tough Man
competitions and those were just bare knuckle kind of things
(07:20):
until you one person got knocked out. And you know,
it's just amazing to see where the sport and where
mixed martial arts has gone over the last thirty years.
I love watching the sport. Grol. I honestly think that
uh M M A. As much as M M A
and boxing compete with each other as far as like
for viewership and stuff, I think they also push each
(07:40):
other to get better, you know, uh you're seeing people
pick up stuff from other skill sets and other sports,
and and you're also seeing boxing now starting to get
a revival of being a little bit more exciting than
it was after after Mike Tyson and after the eighties boxers.
You know, uh, for a while, we weren't treated to
any of the Hagler Herns stuff. It was just kind
(08:01):
of boring, you know so, And I think mixed martial
arts kind of nipping it its its heels really forced
it into a place where now it's gotten exciting again.
I agree with that. Um, let's talk about the process
of becoming a pro. What is that? Like? Who do
you have to beat or impress or better question, how
do you even get noticed? Because there's so many m
(08:23):
m A and UFC style gems. How does one go
from just doing that to trying to make a living
in the NBA. There's a pretty clear path. If you
go to college, you go to the NBA. How did
you decipher all of that? When I started off there
with you never had an amateur pro kind of deal.
You just you started fighting. And then I got lucky
(08:43):
enough to be in in one of the better gyms
in the world in Albuquerque, and just did a certain
amount of rounds with with all the really talented A
level guys, and and then I beat some guys and
people took notice of me, you know, I got I
getting your ass kicked at first vice him guys when
you just didn't know what you're doing yet. Yeah, uh,
(09:05):
you know that's kind of when I was coming up,
I think for because we didn't know any better. You
earned your lumps in the gym. I mean, you know,
you really, you really did. And there was there was
some real talent in our gym. You know. We had
Cowboys Roni and Cub and and and a bunch of guys,
you know. And I would just get in front of
him because I wanted time in front of the coach
and I knew that it would make me better talking
(09:27):
to them and training with them. So that's just what
I did. And and again I was an older guy,
so it's not like I had like this. I didn't
ever have anybody looking out for me like these younger
talented guys. Did you know. You gotta remember Cowboys six
six years younger than me, and his career in the
w C and USC started way like long before mine, did.
(09:49):
I just thought it was a cool deal and I
wanted a spot. You know, you have to be a
really good student though, you know, I don't know how
you did it growing up and when you were in
school or everything, but it obviously appeared that there's something
with this sport that you found intriguing and you were
able to pick it up, I mean pretty damn quickly.
And it takes a lot of studying, you know, and
(10:11):
being engaged as much as it was studying just a
bunch of hard work. I mean I was always known
as like I would put an extra time. I would
put in, you know, more time because I knew that
I didn't have the advantage of having the talent that
some of these guys did, and I knew where I was,
so I just I put in. I worked my ass off,
you know, fantastic. How do you describe the feeling being
(10:33):
in the ring when your fights about to start? Are
you focused on your plan? Are you just trying to
get quiet in your mind? Or are you ampt and
ready to ready your role? I get so the minute
I get in there, I get real quiet. I mean,
like the up leading up to a fight, I'm super
nervous and super I mean It's a scary deal. You're
you're literally about to go fight somebody and possibly get
(10:54):
knocked out on TV or whatever they're you know whatever,
you're looking at your home crowd or whatever. But then
once you get in there, like I said, everything gets
kind of quiet again, you know, I mean really like
it's just you and that other guy at that point,
and you hear your your hone in on your coaches,
and it's just really, uh, I'm just you're there to
do your thing kind of and it's like, what what
you worked hard for? You know? Yeah? Um so, okay,
(11:18):
you're part of the UFC and you're in the mix.
Tell me what it's like to be a part of,
you know, one of these big cards and the whole process.
Who's helping you figure out who to fight and you
know what to do when fights fall apart. Uh So
I had good managers and good coaching luckily along the way.
And you know, uh, we'll get when we get into
(11:39):
the addiction stuff, we'll get in. My career didn't last
very long in the UFC. I found pain pills law
like almost immediately, you know, and you can see uh,
kind of my from my first fight to my second
fight even that like the downfall, like the starting of
the of the addiction, you know, because I had done
some you know, I fought for another organization that the
(12:01):
UFC owned, called Strike Force, and I beat a really
bigger name at the time. And then, uh, and then
I had my first fight in the UFC against a
guy named Eves Edwards. And then right after that, I
hurt my back and that was kind of like the
you know, I kind of messed around the stuff, but
that was like it, you know, I mean, it was
just you know, that part of it was became more
(12:22):
exciting than the than the fight itself. I get it.
I get it. You know, I've said I've read where
you said you struggled with drugs from an early age.
When did drugs enter your life? When I was like,
I mean, drinking twelve thirteen, Drinking was always part of
my family. So it was like we were the we
(12:42):
were the family of like taking SIPs at the family reunions,
you know what I mean. The parents didn't mind or
adults didn't mind. Yeah, get it. Yeah, it was just
a I mean, I think it was just different than
you know, it was just what you did in family stuff,
you know, Uh, so there was always that, but like
on my own, like twelve or thirteen, really young, Like
like I look at my daughter who's fifteen. Now I'm thinking, man,
(13:03):
you are not even close to ready to any any drinks.
And I'm like, oh the hell, I know. I know.
Isaac is a great example of how things can go
downhill quickly, from drinking as a youngster at family functions
to using at parties to letting it all affect his
livelihood as an m M A fighter. I for one,
(13:27):
know the dangers of opioids for my playing career and thereafter.
Although basketball can be brutal to the body, there is
no comparison to what an m M A fighter is
put through in the ring and in the ranks. Isaac
was ascending, but on the inside, his greatest battle was
about to begin. So at what point did it go
(13:53):
from alcohol to something else? So I have always struggled
and kind of went in and out of of some
sort of a program and like white knuckled stuff and
and things like that. Uh, but you know, and I've
always dabbled in drugs, but like the really hard opiate
stuff wasn't until this last, this last little stint that
(14:14):
I had, you know, like in in twenty twelve, I started,
were you someone who partied Isaac or someone who used uh,
you know to kind of sort of make things go
away or to level out? I started by being a
party or I mean, like I always I always thought
that that's how you that's how you unwound. And I
saw people who could party, just party, you know what
(14:36):
I mean. You know, I'm sure just like you see
people celebrate after a game, right, and you're like, yeah,
I can do that, and I just you know, so
that's how it started. But then towards the end of it,
it was just me getting high in my garage by myself,
you know, so and and that was just there's nothing
there except for masking something some other trauma that I'm
trying to deal with, you know. Towards the end, there
is no more party left, you know. I mean, it's
(14:58):
just you know, remember getting yeah, I remember getting in.
You know, at first, everybody says it's you know, at first,
drugs are fun, and then it's fun with problems, and
then it's just problems after a while. Like let's talk
about pain meds in gyms and locker rooms. Uh no,
I I'm not trying to get you to get anybody
in trouble. But what what was that like in the
(15:18):
UFC and m M A world. So everybody again, you know,
like you're dealing with a bunch of alpha males, uh
or alpha male mentality kind of stuff that it's like
guys if they were using and I know a few
guys who who were because we talked about it now
and they've had they've addressed some issues. But you hid
(15:39):
that stuff because you didn't want anybody knowing that you
had a weakness of some sort, you know. Uh. So
you know I found my guy and uh and but
it's not like this is a guy your doctor was
outside the gym. Yeah, outside the gym, And so I
found a guy that wasn't going to relay stuff back
to anybody. You know, I think, you know, there was
(16:01):
a couple of guys. There's a few guys in the
gym who knew I was doing stuff by the time
it was too late. But I mean I tried to
keep it hitting the best that I could. You know,
I didn't you know, I didn't think I knew how
dangerous I because I considered myself such a strong guy. Um,
(16:21):
I didn't think that I was going to have the
same issues with with opiates that everybody else did, you
know what I mean? And I'm sure sure you were
the same way, right. I mean, you're you're a professional athlete.
You've you've gotten yourself whatever is right. You've gotten yourself
this far. So I'm gonna be able to handle this
and I'll just stop after whatever. You know, Yeah, you
feel invincible, like you're one of one. You know, you
(16:42):
just can do anything right. Yeah, and you know it's yeah,
you really do. And it's crazy how much. And I
think you're seeing a lot of guy, especially fighters now,
you're seeing a lot of guys who are who are
starting to get affected by that um mental health wise
and then addiction to wise and everything. I mean, it's
(17:04):
a it's a big deal. You're taking a bunch of
kids who didn't know anything, letting us get hit or
we we put ourselves in there, but we all get
hit in the head a bunch, and then you put
us in front of a camera and things are bound
to to get a little bit weird, you know, no,
no question about it. You know I've said this before
on the show. Um, but I remember when I took OxyContin.
(17:26):
You know, my brain immediately had a reaction that was like,
oh shit, I really like this. This is my this
is my jam. Uh. You know, I want to feel
this way all the time. That's immediately what I felt,
which we know not everyone feels like that. You had
something similar happened though, right, Oh yeah, that was like
(17:47):
once I took an opiate, uh, you know, because I
was taking them as prescribed and then I started snorting him.
And once I started snorting him, I was like, this
is this is it? Like, Wow, I never snorted him.
I I I chewed them. I chewed them to try
to get in. I've heard of the you know, I
got into rehab and heard of the snorting. But man,
that's gotta be Oh my goodness. Look man, like we
(18:10):
wouldn't we wouldn't be having this conversation if it wasn't
one of the greatest feelings in the world, you know what.
I'm with you, and it's uh, it's one of those
things that just eventually kicked the ship out of me.
But I mean like I loved it, man, I really
until I did, and I loved it, you know same,
you know, I for me, I the the initial I
was always kind of a little, uh, socially awkward around
(18:32):
people I didn't know, and you know, being in sports,
people would come up all the time and you know,
kind of say hi and introduced themselves, and I'd always
felt really just awkward about it. The second that I
took the OxyContin, it was like my guard went down.
I felt more at ease in my own mind. I
(18:53):
felt more. I felt funnier and smarter, and you know, everything, um,
and before you know it, it's you know, it's not
that way, and you're chasing one pill and the next pill.
You know, you get to the point it's you're not
deciding when to take it anymore. It's telling you when
you need it. It's telling you when it's time, like
(19:14):
either physically or you or you know, I mean like
the same thing that most of us who are addicted
really kind of have. Is it like we got something
different in our brain that's telling us when it's time.
And it's not just the physical stuff, you know, it's
like really like something clicks in my head that it's like, man,
it's time to to get high. Still, you know, so
at one point, you know, I'm sure it was they
(19:37):
were prescribed to you for legitimate, you know pain, like
you said, back pain. Um, how long and because there's
something that goes on with our minds? How long did
you take opioids thinking and truly believing I am only
taking this for my physical pain until you realize you
(19:59):
were you know, you're actually just taking it because you're
addicted and you like the way it makes you feel.
I think there was a certain amount of that throughout
the whole time, Like I had to. I had to,
you know, like my addict brain. Even so even when
I started, so I went from pills to heroin, and uh,
even when I started using the heroin, I'm like, well,
I really hurt, you know. I mean, like there's a
(20:21):
real you know, and and that's bullsh I mean it
really is bullshit. Like I deal with my pain now
and I'm fine, you know. And uh, and I know
guys who have my friend Cub, I'll keep using him.
He had his whole face broken and he doesn't take opiates, right,
And but so there was this lie in the back
of my head the whole time that was like, man,
(20:41):
you you really need this, you know. I Mean, there's
that denial thing that you need in order to keep
everything kind of running. You know, well, you know on
charges we talk about you know, the ugly part, and
we'll get back into the good part. But let's get
into it. You're so you're out of the UFC and
you're struggling with drugs. Um, how do you up in
a car with guns and drugs and being charged with robbery? Unlucky? Yeah, attempted.
(21:06):
I guess I'm just unlucky. You know. It's so, it
really was. I mean it was like I've always so
I've always done stuff like I shot with some of
the police officers over here. Uh, and I've been part
of like a good community. So all this stuff that
I was doing, I mean I I even when I
was getting high, I was still shooting with like some
(21:27):
people that I knew who were federal agents and stuff.
So I always pictured myself as a pretty good guy. Yeah,
you know, law abiding citizen who just like to tinker
with guns. And you know, I knew I was doing
a lot of stuff that to feed my addiction as
far as stealing goes. Um that I still was justifying
(21:49):
for whatever reason because it was known. I know it's
hard to talk about, and but I feel your pain,
right now because people ask me all the time, they
were like, but you you stole some stuff, and and
and it's it's painful, right, it's painful to reconcile that
you we were doing this right. Well, it's it's that
(22:12):
whole thing of like, I mean, we are at the
end of the day, we're what somebody would consider a junkie.
But it's like, sitting here talking to you, it's hard
to imagine either one of us being you know, you
have this idea in your head of what a junkie
looks like, you know what I mean, And it's not
it's not somebody who performed at a high level in
basketball or fighting. A junkie is somebody who you see panhandling,
(22:35):
you know, in the street. And I was actually there,
you know, not literally, but pretty close to it there
for a while. And so was I. The thing that
saved my asses that I have a I have a
wife God who's like a godsend, who really like, if
it wasn't for her, I'd be homeless, you know, and
and who I lied too good enough to let me
stay in the house. I mean, that's that's my big thing,
(22:58):
is I did a lot of stuff to my addiction.
That's not great and I'm not proud of it. But
the things that I'm really not proud of is the
way that I treated my family and friends. You know,
I burned a lot of bridges with people who I
love greatly, uh, trying to either being super toxic or
like trying to feed the addiction and needing to lie
(23:20):
about it to everybody. You know. So like this, I
can talk about the I got good war stories about
stealing and that kind of I'll laugh about that, and
it's not a funny thing, but I can laugh about that.
The thing that really hurts it is like the stuff
that I did to my family and friends and in
the name of in the name of like continuing to run.
You know, I said, so one of the guns had
(23:40):
a silencer. What was going on there? So I was
building silencers and and again so that this was the
like the mania of the drugs. I'm like, that's just
normal to me. Right, I'm sitting my you know, your
your brain really starts to tell you this ship is
that everything that you're doing is normal. It was the
thing about oxyconton for me, and I think that that
(24:02):
was the other thing about it was that I realized
it was like every good thought I had kind of
hung around and all that every bad thought was real fleeting.
And it almost made me think I've said it before.
It was almost like it was the it'll be all
right drug, because that's what it reminds. It just tells
(24:23):
you it'll be all right, Okay, Yeah, those bills came,
it'll be all right and right, yeah, and I'll deal
with that later, you know. And and and that only
goes so far before you before you end up in
some serious ship, you know. So your thing was, didn't
you get caught stealing like iPods or something at an
(24:43):
Apple store? Which which to me again, So my thing
I got caught stealing. Uh, I was stealing copper and
stuff from from a few places, you know, right, from
building sites and stuff. Yeah, from from stuff like that.
And and so I'm sitting here looking at something like, man,
that's like I watched people running out of Apple and
people steal copper all the time. I'm like, those guys
(25:05):
are junkies. I'm like, oh wait, fucking that's right. Yeah,
you know, going from a blossoming m M A career
to being arrested for stealing copper from construction sites is
a severe fall from grace. To make matters worse. For Isaac,
opioids weren't the only drug of choice that had entered
(25:29):
his world. Sometimes when charges hit, they come at the
right time to save a life. What was your lowest point, Isaac?
And whatever happened with those charges? So the charge is luckily, Uh,
I got a pre prosecution deferral. Uh, and I went
(25:51):
to treatment and I had a great lawyer obviously, and
uh and those charges, I did a good amount of
community service and stuff, and they got to smith because
I was looking at some serious time, you know. Um.
And you know, I wish that I could say that
was even my lowest point, but you know, I kept
I got I went to jail and got out, and
I went to treatment once and uh, then I kept
(26:13):
getting high. Uh. And I think the lowest heroin at
this point, because you really, the pills are too expensive
at a certain point, right, Yeah, So so the pills
are too expensive, and so somebody turned me onto heroin
and I would do heroin and then I would smoke
meth to make sure I could level out. So Matt,
see that's a whole other thing. I'm I'm sorry to
(26:36):
begin with, because you know, sitting in rehab um a
lot of people that go down that road, and heroin
as well. But once people go down the meth road,
you know, it's very hard to recover. And man, I'm
really proud of what you're doing. Well, so both of us.
I mean, like you know this, our chances as as
(26:57):
recovering opiate addicts are not good, you know. Uh, and
you throw a meth on top of that, and it's
even worse. But it really is the kind of thing
that like, uh uh, as long as I'm diligent about
some stuff. You know, I'm in a recovery program, and
as long as I'm diligent about the stuff that I do, uh,
then I stay good, right, And so it really you know,
(27:22):
I know our chances aren't good, and I knows a
meth and heroin addict they're not good, So I get
I stay extra vigilant about that, you know, like I do.
I'm observing. I have yeah, and I have people that
I work with, and I talk to people on a
daily basis and and all the stuff that we're told
to do, you know. So you know, I'm curious. I
(27:44):
know what opioids feel like. I don't know what heroin
feels like. I can only imagine because I know what
oxy feels like. Um, what does meth do to your brain?
You said you were doing the heroin and then you
do the the meth later. Is it just a different rent?
Is meth more of a stimulant? I guess it is.
It's a stimulant. But I mean, really, so I had
(28:06):
this whole life that I had to keep lying about
so that I could keep a family and so that
I could keep appearances up, so I couldn't go too
far down and I couldn't go too far up. So
I was just using those to kind of to not
feel any level out, not feel anything, you know. Uh.
And I don't realize until I look back at stuff,
until I look back at the way I have interacted
(28:29):
with people, I don't realize how crazy my brain was
with the drugs, you know what I mean? Like I
I I look at the thoughts that I have, and
I'm like, dude, this is like, I'm like, how the
fund did I even? How did you anybody even buy that?
I wasn't like just losing my fucking mind. You know,
I'm with you because I drove around in in Phoenix
(28:49):
for years without a driver's license, you know, and I
was pulled over all the time. I would get um,
you know, I would get arrested here and there and
for not having a license and just idiotic, idiotic thinking,
you know. Yeah, stuff that seemed normal, right, Yeah, what
(29:11):
what was your low point? You've been clean now for
a couple of years, right, yeah, for it'll be four
in February, so let's go. Yeah, thank you. It's uh,
but what caused that? What was that point for you
that you just went Okay, I can't do it anymore.
(29:31):
I don't even know. It was just it was I mean,
it was kind of looking at the shame in my
wife's eyes, you know. Uh, and I man, I wish
I had a really cool story about it, but I
was just beat down, man. And it was like I
was just beat to the point where I didn't I
didn't have any answers. I knew I couldn't keep getting high,
and I was like, man, I don't know if I
(29:51):
can stop getting high, but I knew I couldn't, like
you know, and so I just I was completely just
defeated and there was really nothing I remember, just broken
in it, you know, he really, I mean, and you
know this, there's this demoralization. The arrests are bad, everything
like that house is bad. But like, for whatever reason,
(30:13):
we have that moment of clarity that we're just like, man,
I can't, I can't do this anymore. And and it
was that man like I remember my my wife. I
had to explain to her what keeping me well for
the weekend until I got into treatment was. And my
(30:33):
wife is a straight laced, straight straight lace. She works
for the d O D has a clearance kind of
you know, we we almost mess that up, but that's
who she is. And uh, having to explain to her
what keeping me well till I could get into treatment
look like. And then having to drop me off on
the edge of what we call the war zone here
(30:55):
so I could go pick up dope, you know, and
borrowing money from her at the end so I could
go get high until until I could get into treatment,
you know. And that's that's what it was. It wasn't
any it wasn't any one thing, because I can sit
in a jail cell. I know how to do that,
you know, I know how to hustle. It was really
just the feeling of just absolutely and utter disgusted with
(31:17):
myself with what I had become. Kind of you know, same,
very much the same. I remember also, um, you know,
getting into treatment and of course the detox just being awful.
But I remember the first day I got in there.
This was seven years ago, and I got in there
and you know, I had not kept my drug problems
(31:38):
a mystery to my friends. Everyone knew, you know, that
I had my issues. It hadn't been public though, and
at this point it had been public. You know, I
was arrested and now I'm going into treatment within a
couple of weeks. And I remember getting into and this
is before detox, but I remember getting into my room
there and you know, there's no TV, there's no nothing.
(32:00):
It's like a little dorm room. And I just remember
this moment of sitting on the bed. Nobody else was
in the room, and I just went and I exhaled,
and I was like, Okay, after years of this, I
feel like I'm in the right spot. I don't everybody
(32:22):
knows that. You know, I've got issues and now I
gotta try to dig out of it. But there was
that moment for me. Was there one for you? Kind
of like that, Yeah, I mean there was honestly, so
that moment happened. That moment happened when I went to jail,
when I got arrested, because I was like, cool, I
can stop running, you know. Uh, and like I can
(32:43):
quit line to my wife and everybody else about what's
going on. I knew things, not like I was happy
about it, but the same thing. It was just the
kind of the the okay, we're we're kind of a
relief relief of like I can stop now out and
I didn't, but you know, I get it. I get it.
(33:03):
So how how does life start turning around for you though?
Once you got into treatment um to where you are now?
How did how did it start turning around? I made
a promise to myself that I was gonna do whatever
anybody asked me that had to do with recovery, you know.
And I and again, like I, I approached it like
I did my fighting. I was going to be very
vigilant about and being regimented if you asked me to
(33:26):
do something, I did it, you know, and uh. And
there was times when I hated it, but I remember
what I told myself that I was gonna you know,
and that really that has served me even to this
day of like, I know, as long as I keep
doing the next right thing, uh, that whatever, this higher
power thing is going to keep taking care of me,
(33:46):
you know what I mean. And that really is like
every time I get stressed out or frustrated, I remember
what I had told myself and what I've told other
people I work with, and that just keep doing the
next right thing and that we're gonna stay vigilant about
this off And every time that I focused on my recovery,
life has just gotten better. You know, it hasn't. It
hasn't been exactly who I wanted, right, Uh. You know,
(34:10):
Like I tried fighting for a while afterwards, and I
was like, this is gonna be my big comeback into fighting,
and that didn't work out, so I was like ship.
But being able to do that, yeah, being able to
take that, you know, because hey man, we can say
what we want. When your career is over and you've
spent years doing that, you're gonna mourn that. You're gonna
(34:31):
mourn that being over and being able to do that
and not dip back into drugs. That's big time, man,
So well done it is. But I'm of the mind
to set of we guys like you and me, based
on the amount of like wreckage and pain that we
have in our life, we have no good excuse to
get high anymore, you know. Uh so so yeah you
(34:54):
mourn it, but like there's a lot of people who
mourn real death without getting high. Uh. And that's the
whole design for living thing that we've kind of committed to. Um,
that's really kind of what I've committed to. And and
it's like realizing that we don't have we don't have
that excuse. It's not there's no good reason for us
to do any of that anymore, you know what I mean? Absolutely.
(35:18):
You know you've talked about how hard it is to
struggle with addiction, but how much harder uh we make
it as a society for people with this disease. Um,
you know, what can we do better? Education? Always education?
You know that. Uh. I have a good friend who
runs a treatment center and runs a sober living place.
(35:41):
He's a clinical he's a head clinician there. And uh,
you know, the more that we educate people about the
stigma around it, you know, I mean, it's still like
mental health and addiction are still like really frowned upon.
People still think of this as as a weakness that
you and I have, And I'm like, man, I'm a
pretty strong fucking you know. I'll take a beating and
(36:01):
I'll keep going. But when it comes to this one thing,
whether it's for me several things by anxiety, my depression,
my addiction, you know, I got no answers for it.
And that to me, is not a weakness. That's just like,
that's something that there's an illness in my in my head,
you know, I mean. And and I think it's good
that people are starting to know more and more about
(36:22):
the disease of addiction. Yeah, but man, you can just
put that beautifully, I mean, and it's emotional growth to
know that, hey, look this is why we were doing
it all these years, and that that's a good feeling. Right.
For years, I didn't I didn't know why I was
doing things and what was wrong with me. And you know,
finally I went well, a lot of people struggle with
mental illness, and you know, I'm one of those people.
(36:45):
So once I could put my arms around it, you know,
it felt much better. It does, especially you know, I've
always had these anxiety and depression issues, but I've never
I've never really, it's just been a thing. But now
like I can recognize it and deal with it appropriately,
and I'm like, oh, ship, that's how you do that,
you know, Like I don't have to get high over
(37:06):
that to like mask whatever whatever it is. It's whatever
bothering you. I know, I know, it's so crazy. It's
an absolute mind fuck, it really is. And um, you know,
when when you look at all your opponents in the ring,
how does the fight against addiction stand up? So again,
(37:26):
it's almost like I'm never gonna if I'm fighting somebody,
I'm never gonna stop fighting until I'm until I am
separated from consciousness or or asleep from getting choked. The
biggest thing with this was like, you know, it's a corny,
hokey thing that you hear in like some of the programs,
but like I really surrendered and then I quit fighting
and that was that was that made it easy. So
(37:50):
is it a fight? Uh, it's not a fight. Like
I don't I don't wake up anymore going funk. I
want to get high, but I'm not going to do
it today. You know, I wake up every morning and
I really do kind of count my blessings and see
why I'm grateful for and the work that I have
to do for to stay sober is like minuscule compared
to what I had to do to get high and
(38:12):
to maintain that lifestyle. So I don't think it's a fight.
I really I don't. I don't view it as a fight.
You know, that's great, that's great. What does a day
in your life look like these days? In Albert? Kirt?
I'm super boring, man. I get up and do roofing
and then uh come home and see the family, hit
a meeting. You know, good. You know the meetings that
(38:32):
that's interesting too. You know, I did a ton of meetings,
and um, you know, getting clean and sober is different
for everybody. Uh. The one thing that I learned most
about those meetings though, was it's camaraderie and it's being
able to be with other people who you know, nobody's
(38:54):
putting on any airs. Everyone's a little bit fucked up
in here, and you know you can kind to share
in that and and other people's stories, and you know, um,
I think what you ever, you know, you said some
of its corny whatever, but it's seems important. It is important,
and you know a lot of that they're they're starting
to look at stuff is like you know, isolation is
(39:15):
being a really big deal for for addicts, you know.
And I'm a big fan of like, whatever way you
find your recovery is great for me, as long as
it's as long as it's working. I found it a
particular way, and I stick with that, you know. Uh.
And my big thing is not isolating myself for people,
you know. I mean this, the disease kind of wants
us dead and wants us alone for that to happen.
(39:39):
And they're starting to go more and more. They're starting
to see how just like you said, that camaraderie stuff
is really plays into, uh, plays into the real recovery,
you know. So now I'm gonna give you my uh
my credentials, my stats for my playing days. I was
about six four one. I have one ninety six six
(40:02):
or seven wingspan. Uh. I come walking into the gym,
How are you training me? And do I have any
sort of shot? Uh? You're gonna we're gonna use your
lengths obviously, okay. Yeah, And we're gonna keep you away
from people and and make sure you and I are
different fighters. I'm a short, little fire plug and I
like to get hit, but I don't want you. I
(40:23):
do not want you getting hit. So we're gonna learn
how to use your jab and your and your kicks
and stuff and keep you a distance till you can
hurt somebody. But man, I did a few, We did
a few boxing sort of workouts, uh or I've done
something in my life. And we did some with certain teams.
I mean one thing we did about basketball drill. We
(40:43):
just ran around the court with our arms up like
this for three minutes, thinking, you know, that's not too bad.
You get to about a minute and you and you
guys gotta be up like this all the time. People
don't understand the endurance and the strength and the uh,
the mental fortitude. It's a lot. Man. It's like like
(41:04):
getting to any I consider the UFC a high level.
I never got to the heights of the UFC that
I think I should have. But like, once you're there,
like you you've developed a work ethic and a and
a mental fortitude that that it's crazy, man. And like
and for any any sport, like at a pro level,
even if you're riding a bench, you're gad, dude, you
(41:26):
know what question about it? Yeah, you put your time
in a lot of practice, a lot of muscle memory,
and you can't fake that stuff, you know, So that's
always what's abusing to me. Sorry, I'm gonna mention your
your social media stuff here a little bit because I
love it than man. Yeah, well I I do it.
It's cool to see you use your platform the way
you do. Um. You know, I'm a fairly left leaning
(41:48):
guy as you are, and it's it's good to see
guys like you and what's his face David Bautista and
guys like that really kind of uh putting it out there.
And I mean, you guys do have you? Guys are
like he has a whole fan base. It probably believes
that that Trump still won, right, but he's not afraid
(42:08):
to at this point. He does it, but he's not
afraid to lose that popularity because he knows what it,
what it means for real, you knows to be to
be real and honest. Yeah. I appreciate that too, And
it's cool to see guys like you who have like
who really have that using it for what it what
it should be used for. Man, you know, I wish
(42:28):
I had the balls that you have. Most of the time. Yeah, well,
let's leave on this the fight for sobriety and the
journey you've had and been on. What do you want
to tell others out there who are struggling, Like my man,
don't be afraid to open up about it. If you're struggling,
talk to somebody, and like, I don't give that lip service.
(42:48):
There's other guys on on Twitter who I talk to,
who I know personally, I answer messages when somebody says
they're fucking hurting. I mean, like I really I don't
give that lip service because it is like there needs
to be somebody to listen, and there needs to be
somebody to listen when somebody really needs to reach out.
So reach out and fucking find some and be if
(43:09):
you can be of service and be the person to listen,
do that, you know, I mean, you never know what
you're gonna affect, so and you never know what another
person is going through, and sometimes it just takes an ear,
you know, to help help them get through their day. Right,
there's a lot, like I said, there's a lot of
strong people who have run their fucking cars in the
walls because they've never just opened up, you know, And
(43:32):
that's that's the that's the truth, Isaac Man. I can't
thank you enough for coming on the show. Um. I
think the world of you and much continued success. My
door is always open to your brother. Thank you, man, say,
I appreciate it. This was this is a good time
and it's nice to actually finally talk to you and
not just see a block or charge you know here,
(43:54):
all right, man, thank you so much. All right, thanks man,
talk to you soon. Seven Runniens with the charges ship Lee, Sender,
tenors and ballers and charges the Celebrity gang forms and charges.
We came along way from living lawless charges selling a
Runniens with the charges shot Lee, Sender, tenors and ball
ass and charges Shi the Celebrity Gang forms charge. We
(44:17):
came along way from living lawless charge charge
This time a former Son's player who you might remember
as t Rex. More video in just a moment, But
this is Rex Chapman's mug shun, and we are learning
a lot more about the charge of charging. I've read
where you said you struggled with drugs from an early age.
When did drugs enter your life? So the pills are
too expensive, and so somebody turned me onto heroin, and
(00:23):
I would do heroin and then I would smoke math
to make sure I could level out. Once I took
an opiate, you know, because I was taking them as prescribed,
and then I started snorting him. And once I started
snorting him, I was like, this is this? Is it?
Welcome to Charges. I'm your host, Rex Chapman. Mike Tyson
(00:45):
once said everyone has a plan until they get punched
in the mouth, but sometimes you never see what's about
to hit you. For me, I never thought the hardest
part of my career as a professional athlete would be
fighting off an addiction to painkillers opioids and fighting to
keep my relationships, my reputation, even my dignity. As a
disease was attacking all aspects of my life. That fight
(01:09):
was and is the hardest of my career as a
professional basketball player, and I never fought anybody but today's guest.
He knows exactly what it's like to get punched in
the mouth, and yet his fight and my fight are
the same, and he knows all too well how much
more pain can come from a pill than any punch
ever thrown by a human, and that includes Mike Tyson.
(01:31):
This his charges. Welcome to the show, my friend, Isaac
Valley Flag Welcome. Thanks for having me, man, I appreciate it. Man,
I'm so excited. We just kind of got to, you know,
a little bit of a Twitter relationship, and man, I've
(01:53):
followed your story on and off throughout the years. My
son is a big m M A fan, And uh,
I'm really happy for you and to see where you
are today. Thanks Ben. Yeah, it's uh, it's a cool
place to be, especially considering where I was about four
years ago, you know what I mean? And yeah, you
do know, Yeah, you do know what I mean? Right, Yeah,
And it's baby steps, man, And I was brushing up
(02:16):
on some things today and so much of it resonated. Well,
let's start here. How the hell does somebody decide I
want to be a professional fighter uh, you know, I
kinda so I had another body who we're working at
a bar, and uh, it just kind of seemed like
it was a fun thing to do. I kind of
grew up doing getting into fight street fights and stuff
(02:40):
and uh and some of our longline. Uh, they told
me I could do it and I wasn't gonna get
in trouble and uh, I might even get paid at
some point. So that was you know, that was like
m M as the early days before it was like
really as big as it was, the UFC was a thing,
but it wasn't like a thing like a force like
it is now, you know. So it was that That's
(03:02):
kind of how for you. I was early twenties, so
I gotta got into it late. Um. You know a
lot of the a lot of the guys these days,
they start doing stuff because the sports gotten so big,
they start doing stuff at a at a real young age,
you know, and it just wasn't the case when I
was younger. I just kind of dug the whole aspect
of fighting, and then then I fell in love with
(03:22):
like the more spiritual side of the fighting game too.
You know. Yeah, I was wondering about that, you know,
I've heard heard some fighters talk about how it it
really is more of an art form than about the
violence or actual fighting. What do you view it as? So? Uh?
Number one, I do love the violence of it. I mean,
you know what I mean. But there's something really uh
(03:45):
for lack of a better word, peaceful about being in there,
uh with another human being. And it's just you know,
as much as there is crowd noise and stuff, it's
just you and them like essentially locked in together and
you're really paying attention to the breathing and everything, and
you're very much in the moment, you know. And so
there there's like a real beauty to fighting. There really is,
you know, And I think that, I mean it is. Look,
(04:08):
it's violent, we're fighting each other. But at the same time,
there's a lot of people who find a certain amount
of like of of peace doing that, you know, And
I think I'm I'm one of them, and it isn't it.
You know. I obviously didn't compete like this in a
sport where you actually, you know, fight. We all talked about, well,
we went to war last night and we've battled them. No,
(04:29):
we didn't. Ye basketball the players never fight. Let's get North,
can we you know, you gotta fight somebody for three
seconds till they break you up, right right, Let's just
get that out of the way right now. No. So
I'm wondering though, But you know, playing that sport, you
know there no matter how hard you go at one another,
(04:51):
there's a mutual respect. And I gotta think that that's
you know some of it too, that piece of being
in the ring with someone else you know is a
professional and you guys are gonna I mean, I would think,
don't you sort of have a kinship even though you're
trying to kick that person's ass. So I got lucky.
I got to fight guys who are like kind of
my heroes, So I mean it was it was kind
(05:11):
of cool. Uh like Eaves Edwards and taking or Gold me.
We're uh those are the guys who I really liked
coming up and I got to fight him, you know. Uh,
So it was there is that kind of kinship, especially
when you're doing you're fighting somebody who you look up to,
you know, right, Well, tell me about the training that
somebody has to do to compete in m m A
(05:32):
and not like jumping rope and push ups, like what
it's like to learn all the fighting styles, how to
defend things all that. Uh. So the learning part, I mean,
that's the other part of it that's really cool is
you are learning a craft, you know, uh, and it's intense,
uh and it's fun. At my age, because I started
so late, I kind of was behind the curve, and
(05:55):
I really I pushed myself as hard as I could
to try to to try to catch out with these
like young guys like Cub Swanson is a really good
friend of mine and uh and he started young and
he would come out here to Albuquerque, and I always
felt like I had to work harder than him because
I didn't have the same amount of time and that
left in the sport or natural ability as him or
(06:15):
anything like that. So I always pushed myself as hard
as I could to try to get better at it.
You know, were you were you an athlete growing up?
Did you play sports? Did you? Um? Or you don't
have to play sports to be an athlete, but did
you have an athletic background growing up? Now? You know?
So I've never had a dad, so I don't know, uh,
you know, father in the house until like later on. Um,
(06:39):
and I just kind of had a hippie mom who
wrote poetry, so I don't even know if I was.
That's awesome though, Yeah, that's awesome though. But finding it's
amazing to go through, you know, twenty years of your
life and then all of a sudden, you know, it had.
I like the new sports, like in the Olympics every year.
I enjoy that. I'm so thrilled to see, you know,
(06:59):
it's a violent sport and I know you can you
only have a short window of time to do it.
But I'm really excited for, you know, there to be
another profession outside of just traditional boxing, which is that's
what it was when I was growing up. I remember
in my hometown they had something called um tough Man
competitions and those were just bare knuckle kind of things
(07:20):
until you one person got knocked out. And you know,
it's just amazing to see where the sport and where
mixed martial arts has gone over the last thirty years.
I love watching the sport. Grol. I honestly think that
uh M M A. As much as M M A
and boxing compete with each other as far as like
for viewership and stuff, I think they also push each
(07:40):
other to get better, you know, uh you're seeing people
pick up stuff from other skill sets and other sports,
and and you're also seeing boxing now starting to get
a revival of being a little bit more exciting than
it was after after Mike Tyson and after the eighties boxers.
You know, uh, for a while, we weren't treated to
any of the Hagler Herns stuff. It was just kind
(08:01):
of boring, you know so, And I think mixed martial
arts kind of nipping it its its heels really forced
it into a place where now it's gotten exciting again.
I agree with that. Um, let's talk about the process
of becoming a pro. What is that? Like? Who do
you have to beat or impress or better question, how
do you even get noticed? Because there's so many m
(08:23):
m A and UFC style gems. How does one go
from just doing that to trying to make a living
in the NBA. There's a pretty clear path. If you
go to college, you go to the NBA. How did
you decipher all of that? When I started off there
with you never had an amateur pro kind of deal.
You just you started fighting. And then I got lucky
(08:43):
enough to be in in one of the better gyms
in the world in Albuquerque, and just did a certain
amount of rounds with with all the really talented A
level guys, and and then I beat some guys and
people took notice of me, you know, I got I
getting your ass kicked at first vice him guys when
you just didn't know what you're doing yet. Yeah, uh,
(09:05):
you know that's kind of when I was coming up,
I think for because we didn't know any better. You
earned your lumps in the gym. I mean, you know,
you really, you really did. And there was there was
some real talent in our gym. You know. We had
Cowboys Roni and Cub and and and a bunch of guys,
you know. And I would just get in front of
him because I wanted time in front of the coach
and I knew that it would make me better talking
(09:27):
to them and training with them. So that's just what
I did. And and again I was an older guy,
so it's not like I had like this. I didn't
ever have anybody looking out for me like these younger
talented guys. Did you know. You gotta remember Cowboys six
six years younger than me, and his career in the
w C and USC started way like long before mine, did.
(09:49):
I just thought it was a cool deal and I
wanted a spot. You know, you have to be a
really good student though, you know, I don't know how
you did it growing up and when you were in
school or everything, but it obviously appeared that there's something
with this sport that you found intriguing and you were
able to pick it up, I mean pretty damn quickly.
And it takes a lot of studying, you know, and
(10:11):
being engaged as much as it was studying just a
bunch of hard work. I mean I was always known
as like I would put an extra time. I would
put in, you know, more time because I knew that
I didn't have the advantage of having the talent that
some of these guys did, and I knew where I was,
so I just I put in. I worked my ass off,
you know, fantastic. How do you describe the feeling being
(10:33):
in the ring when your fights about to start? Are
you focused on your plan? Are you just trying to
get quiet in your mind? Or are you ampt and
ready to ready your role? I get so the minute
I get in there, I get real quiet. I mean,
like the up leading up to a fight, I'm super
nervous and super I mean It's a scary deal. You're
you're literally about to go fight somebody and possibly get
(10:54):
knocked out on TV or whatever they're you know whatever,
you're looking at your home crowd or whatever. But then
once you get in there, like I said, everything gets
kind of quiet again, you know, I mean really like
it's just you and that other guy at that point,
and you hear your your hone in on your coaches,
and it's just really, uh, I'm just you're there to
do your thing kind of and it's like, what what
you worked hard for? You know? Yeah? Um so, okay,
(11:18):
you're part of the UFC and you're in the mix.
Tell me what it's like to be a part of,
you know, one of these big cards and the whole process.
Who's helping you figure out who to fight and you
know what to do when fights fall apart. Uh So
I had good managers and good coaching luckily along the way.
And you know, uh, we'll get when we get into
(11:39):
the addiction stuff, we'll get in. My career didn't last
very long in the UFC. I found pain pills law
like almost immediately, you know, and you can see uh,
kind of my from my first fight to my second
fight even that like the downfall, like the starting of
the of the addiction, you know, because I had done
some you know, I fought for another organization that the
(12:01):
UFC owned, called Strike Force, and I beat a really
bigger name at the time. And then, uh, and then
I had my first fight in the UFC against a
guy named Eves Edwards. And then right after that, I
hurt my back and that was kind of like the
you know, I kind of messed around the stuff, but
that was like it, you know, I mean, it was
just you know, that part of it was became more
(12:22):
exciting than the than the fight itself. I get it.
I get it. You know, I've said I've read where
you said you struggled with drugs from an early age.
When did drugs enter your life? When I was like,
I mean, drinking twelve thirteen, Drinking was always part of
my family. So it was like we were the we
(12:42):
were the family of like taking SIPs at the family reunions,
you know what I mean. The parents didn't mind or
adults didn't mind. Yeah, get it. Yeah, it was just
a I mean, I think it was just different than
you know, it was just what you did in family stuff,
you know, Uh, so there was always that, but like
on my own, like twelve or thirteen, really young, Like
like I look at my daughter who's fifteen. Now I'm thinking, man,
(13:03):
you are not even close to ready to any any drinks.
And I'm like, oh the hell, I know. I know.
Isaac is a great example of how things can go
downhill quickly, from drinking as a youngster at family functions
to using at parties to letting it all affect his
livelihood as an m M A fighter. I for one,
(13:27):
know the dangers of opioids for my playing career and thereafter.
Although basketball can be brutal to the body, there is
no comparison to what an m M A fighter is
put through in the ring and in the ranks. Isaac
was ascending, but on the inside, his greatest battle was
about to begin. So at what point did it go
(13:53):
from alcohol to something else? So I have always struggled
and kind of went in and out of of some
sort of a program and like white knuckled stuff and
and things like that. Uh, but you know, and I've
always dabbled in drugs, but like the really hard opiate
stuff wasn't until this last, this last little stint that
(14:14):
I had, you know, like in in twenty twelve, I started,
were you someone who partied Isaac or someone who used uh,
you know to kind of sort of make things go
away or to level out? I started by being a
party or I mean, like I always I always thought
that that's how you that's how you unwound. And I
saw people who could party, just party, you know what
(14:36):
I mean. You know, I'm sure just like you see
people celebrate after a game, right, and you're like, yeah,
I can do that, and I just you know, so
that's how it started. But then towards the end of it,
it was just me getting high in my garage by myself,
you know, so and and that was just there's nothing
there except for masking something some other trauma that I'm
trying to deal with, you know. Towards the end, there
is no more party left, you know. I mean, it's
(14:58):
just you know, remember getting yeah, I remember getting in.
You know, at first, everybody says it's you know, at first,
drugs are fun, and then it's fun with problems, and
then it's just problems after a while. Like let's talk
about pain meds in gyms and locker rooms. Uh no,
I I'm not trying to get you to get anybody
in trouble. But what what was that like in the
(15:18):
UFC and m M A world. So everybody again, you know,
like you're dealing with a bunch of alpha males, uh
or alpha male mentality kind of stuff that it's like
guys if they were using and I know a few
guys who who were because we talked about it now
and they've had they've addressed some issues. But you hid
(15:39):
that stuff because you didn't want anybody knowing that you
had a weakness of some sort, you know. Uh. So
you know I found my guy and uh and but
it's not like this is a guy your doctor was
outside the gym. Yeah, outside the gym, And so I
found a guy that wasn't going to relay stuff back
to anybody. You know, I think, you know, there was
(16:01):
a couple of guys. There's a few guys in the
gym who knew I was doing stuff by the time
it was too late. But I mean I tried to
keep it hitting the best that I could. You know,
I didn't you know, I didn't think I knew how
dangerous I because I considered myself such a strong guy. Um,
(16:21):
I didn't think that I was going to have the
same issues with with opiates that everybody else did, you
know what I mean? And I'm sure sure you were
the same way, right. I mean, you're you're a professional athlete.
You've you've gotten yourself whatever is right. You've gotten yourself
this far. So I'm gonna be able to handle this
and I'll just stop after whatever. You know, Yeah, you
feel invincible, like you're one of one. You know, you
(16:42):
just can do anything right. Yeah, and you know it's yeah,
you really do. And it's crazy how much. And I
think you're seeing a lot of guy, especially fighters now,
you're seeing a lot of guys who are who are
starting to get affected by that um mental health wise
and then addiction to wise and everything. I mean, it's
(17:04):
a it's a big deal. You're taking a bunch of
kids who didn't know anything, letting us get hit or
we we put ourselves in there, but we all get
hit in the head a bunch, and then you put
us in front of a camera and things are bound
to to get a little bit weird, you know, no,
no question about it. You know I've said this before
on the show. Um, but I remember when I took OxyContin.
(17:26):
You know, my brain immediately had a reaction that was like,
oh shit, I really like this. This is my this
is my jam. Uh. You know, I want to feel
this way all the time. That's immediately what I felt,
which we know not everyone feels like that. You had
something similar happened though, right, Oh yeah, that was like
(17:47):
once I took an opiate, uh, you know, because I
was taking them as prescribed and then I started snorting him.
And once I started snorting him, I was like, this
is this is it? Like, Wow, I never snorted him.
I I I chewed them. I chewed them to try
to get in. I've heard of the you know, I
got into rehab and heard of the snorting. But man,
that's gotta be Oh my goodness. Look man, like we
(18:10):
wouldn't we wouldn't be having this conversation if it wasn't
one of the greatest feelings in the world, you know what.
I'm with you, and it's uh, it's one of those
things that just eventually kicked the ship out of me.
But I mean like I loved it, man, I really
until I did, and I loved it, you know same,
you know, I for me, I the the initial I
was always kind of a little, uh, socially awkward around
(18:32):
people I didn't know, and you know, being in sports,
people would come up all the time and you know,
kind of say hi and introduced themselves, and I'd always
felt really just awkward about it. The second that I
took the OxyContin, it was like my guard went down.
I felt more at ease in my own mind. I
(18:53):
felt more. I felt funnier and smarter, and you know, everything, um,
and before you know it, it's you know, it's not
that way, and you're chasing one pill and the next pill.
You know, you get to the point it's you're not
deciding when to take it anymore. It's telling you when
you need it. It's telling you when it's time, like
(19:14):
either physically or you or you know, I mean like
the same thing that most of us who are addicted
really kind of have. Is it like we got something
different in our brain that's telling us when it's time.
And it's not just the physical stuff, you know, it's
like really like something clicks in my head that it's like, man,
it's time to to get high. Still, you know, so
at one point, you know, I'm sure it was they
(19:37):
were prescribed to you for legitimate, you know pain, like
you said, back pain. Um, how long and because there's
something that goes on with our minds? How long did
you take opioids thinking and truly believing I am only
taking this for my physical pain until you realize you
(19:59):
were you know, you're actually just taking it because you're
addicted and you like the way it makes you feel.
I think there was a certain amount of that throughout
the whole time, Like I had to. I had to,
you know, like my addict brain. Even so even when
I started, so I went from pills to heroin, and uh,
even when I started using the heroin, I'm like, well,
I really hurt, you know. I mean, like there's a
(20:21):
real you know, and and that's bullsh I mean it
really is bullshit. Like I deal with my pain now
and I'm fine, you know. And uh, and I know
guys who have my friend Cub, I'll keep using him.
He had his whole face broken and he doesn't take opiates, right,
And but so there was this lie in the back
of my head the whole time that was like, man,
(20:41):
you you really need this, you know. I Mean, there's
that denial thing that you need in order to keep
everything kind of running. You know, well, you know on
charges we talk about you know, the ugly part, and
we'll get back into the good part. But let's get
into it. You're so you're out of the UFC and
you're struggling with drugs. Um, how do you up in
a car with guns and drugs and being charged with robbery? Unlucky? Yeah, attempted.
(21:06):
I guess I'm just unlucky. You know. It's so, it
really was. I mean it was like I've always so
I've always done stuff like I shot with some of
the police officers over here. Uh, and I've been part
of like a good community. So all this stuff that
I was doing, I mean I I even when I
was getting high, I was still shooting with like some
(21:27):
people that I knew who were federal agents and stuff.
So I always pictured myself as a pretty good guy. Yeah,
you know, law abiding citizen who just like to tinker
with guns. And you know, I knew I was doing
a lot of stuff that to feed my addiction as
far as stealing goes. Um that I still was justifying
(21:49):
for whatever reason because it was known. I know it's
hard to talk about, and but I feel your pain,
right now because people ask me all the time, they
were like, but you you stole some stuff, and and
and it's it's painful, right, it's painful to reconcile that
you we were doing this right. Well, it's it's that
(22:12):
whole thing of like, I mean, we are at the
end of the day, we're what somebody would consider a junkie.
But it's like, sitting here talking to you, it's hard
to imagine either one of us being you know, you
have this idea in your head of what a junkie
looks like, you know what I mean, And it's not
it's not somebody who performed at a high level in
basketball or fighting. A junkie is somebody who you see panhandling,
(22:35):
you know, in the street. And I was actually there,
you know, not literally, but pretty close to it there
for a while. And so was I. The thing that
saved my asses that I have a I have a
wife God who's like a godsend, who really like, if
it wasn't for her, I'd be homeless, you know, and
and who I lied too good enough to let me
stay in the house. I mean, that's that's my big thing,
(22:58):
is I did a lot of stuff to my addiction.
That's not great and I'm not proud of it. But
the things that I'm really not proud of is the
way that I treated my family and friends. You know,
I burned a lot of bridges with people who I
love greatly, uh, trying to either being super toxic or
like trying to feed the addiction and needing to lie
(23:20):
about it to everybody. You know. So like this, I
can talk about the I got good war stories about
stealing and that kind of I'll laugh about that, and
it's not a funny thing, but I can laugh about that.
The thing that really hurts it is like the stuff
that I did to my family and friends and in
the name of in the name of like continuing to run.
You know, I said, so one of the guns had
(23:40):
a silencer. What was going on there? So I was
building silencers and and again so that this was the
like the mania of the drugs. I'm like, that's just
normal to me. Right, I'm sitting my you know, your
your brain really starts to tell you this ship is
that everything that you're doing is normal. It was the
thing about oxyconton for me, and I think that that
(24:02):
was the other thing about it was that I realized
it was like every good thought I had kind of
hung around and all that every bad thought was real fleeting.
And it almost made me think I've said it before.
It was almost like it was the it'll be all
right drug, because that's what it reminds. It just tells
(24:23):
you it'll be all right, Okay, Yeah, those bills came,
it'll be all right and right, yeah, and I'll deal
with that later, you know. And and and that only
goes so far before you before you end up in
some serious ship, you know. So your thing was, didn't
you get caught stealing like iPods or something at an
(24:43):
Apple store? Which which to me again, So my thing
I got caught stealing. Uh, I was stealing copper and
stuff from from a few places, you know, right, from
building sites and stuff. Yeah, from from stuff like that.
And and so I'm sitting here looking at something like, man,
that's like I watched people running out of Apple and
people steal copper all the time. I'm like, those guys
(25:05):
are junkies. I'm like, oh wait, fucking that's right. Yeah,
you know, going from a blossoming m M A career
to being arrested for stealing copper from construction sites is
a severe fall from grace. To make matters worse. For Isaac,
opioids weren't the only drug of choice that had entered
(25:29):
his world. Sometimes when charges hit, they come at the
right time to save a life. What was your lowest point, Isaac?
And whatever happened with those charges? So the charge is luckily, Uh,
I got a pre prosecution deferral. Uh, and I went
(25:51):
to treatment and I had a great lawyer obviously, and
uh and those charges, I did a good amount of
community service and stuff, and they got to smith because
I was looking at some serious time, you know. Um.
And you know, I wish that I could say that
was even my lowest point, but you know, I kept
I got I went to jail and got out, and
I went to treatment once and uh, then I kept
(26:13):
getting high. Uh. And I think the lowest heroin at
this point, because you really, the pills are too expensive
at a certain point, right, Yeah, So so the pills
are too expensive, and so somebody turned me onto heroin
and I would do heroin and then I would smoke
meth to make sure I could level out. So Matt,
see that's a whole other thing. I'm I'm sorry to
(26:36):
begin with, because you know, sitting in rehab um a
lot of people that go down that road, and heroin
as well. But once people go down the meth road,
you know, it's very hard to recover. And man, I'm
really proud of what you're doing. Well, so both of us.
I mean, like you know this, our chances as as
(26:57):
recovering opiate addicts are not good, you know. Uh, and
you throw a meth on top of that, and it's
even worse. But it really is the kind of thing
that like, uh uh, as long as I'm diligent about
some stuff. You know, I'm in a recovery program, and
as long as I'm diligent about the stuff that I do, uh,
then I stay good, right, And so it really you know,
(27:22):
I know our chances aren't good, and I knows a
meth and heroin addict they're not good, So I get
I stay extra vigilant about that, you know, like I do.
I'm observing. I have yeah, and I have people that
I work with, and I talk to people on a
daily basis and and all the stuff that we're told
to do, you know. So you know, I'm curious. I
(27:44):
know what opioids feel like. I don't know what heroin
feels like. I can only imagine because I know what
oxy feels like. Um, what does meth do to your brain?
You said you were doing the heroin and then you
do the the meth later. Is it just a different rent?
Is meth more of a stimulant? I guess it is.
It's a stimulant. But I mean, really, so I had
(28:06):
this whole life that I had to keep lying about
so that I could keep a family and so that
I could keep appearances up, so I couldn't go too
far down and I couldn't go too far up. So
I was just using those to kind of to not
feel any level out, not feel anything, you know. Uh.
And I don't realize until I look back at stuff,
until I look back at the way I have interacted
(28:29):
with people, I don't realize how crazy my brain was
with the drugs, you know what I mean? Like I
I I look at the thoughts that I have, and
I'm like, dude, this is like, I'm like, how the
fund did I even? How did you anybody even buy that?
I wasn't like just losing my fucking mind. You know,
I'm with you because I drove around in in Phoenix
(28:49):
for years without a driver's license, you know, and I
was pulled over all the time. I would get um,
you know, I would get arrested here and there and
for not having a license and just idiotic, idiotic thinking,
you know. Yeah, stuff that seemed normal, right, Yeah, what
(29:11):
what was your low point? You've been clean now for
a couple of years, right, yeah, for it'll be four
in February, so let's go. Yeah, thank you. It's uh,
but what caused that? What was that point for you
that you just went Okay, I can't do it anymore.
(29:31):
I don't even know. It was just it was I mean,
it was kind of looking at the shame in my
wife's eyes, you know. Uh, and I man, I wish
I had a really cool story about it, but I
was just beat down, man. And it was like I
was just beat to the point where I didn't I
didn't have any answers. I knew I couldn't keep getting high,
and I was like, man, I don't know if I
(29:51):
can stop getting high, but I knew I couldn't, like
you know, and so I just I was completely just
defeated and there was really nothing I remember, just broken
in it, you know, he really, I mean, and you
know this, there's this demoralization. The arrests are bad, everything
like that house is bad. But like, for whatever reason,
(30:13):
we have that moment of clarity that we're just like, man,
I can't, I can't do this anymore. And and it
was that man like I remember my my wife. I
had to explain to her what keeping me well for
the weekend until I got into treatment was. And my
(30:33):
wife is a straight laced, straight straight lace. She works
for the d O D has a clearance kind of
you know, we we almost mess that up, but that's
who she is. And uh, having to explain to her
what keeping me well till I could get into treatment
look like. And then having to drop me off on
the edge of what we call the war zone here
(30:55):
so I could go pick up dope, you know, and
borrowing money from her at the end so I could
go get high until until I could get into treatment,
you know. And that's that's what it was. It wasn't
any it wasn't any one thing, because I can sit
in a jail cell. I know how to do that,
you know, I know how to hustle. It was really
just the feeling of just absolutely and utter disgusted with
(31:17):
myself with what I had become. Kind of you know, same,
very much the same. I remember also, um, you know,
getting into treatment and of course the detox just being awful.
But I remember the first day I got in there.
This was seven years ago, and I got in there
and you know, I had not kept my drug problems
(31:38):
a mystery to my friends. Everyone knew, you know, that
I had my issues. It hadn't been public though, and
at this point it had been public. You know, I
was arrested and now I'm going into treatment within a
couple of weeks. And I remember getting into and this
is before detox, but I remember getting into my room
there and you know, there's no TV, there's no nothing.
(32:00):
It's like a little dorm room. And I just remember
this moment of sitting on the bed. Nobody else was
in the room, and I just went and I exhaled,
and I was like, Okay, after years of this, I
feel like I'm in the right spot. I don't everybody
(32:22):
knows that. You know, I've got issues and now I
gotta try to dig out of it. But there was
that moment for me. Was there one for you? Kind
of like that, Yeah, I mean there was honestly, so
that moment happened. That moment happened when I went to jail,
when I got arrested, because I was like, cool, I
can stop running, you know. Uh, and like I can
(32:43):
quit line to my wife and everybody else about what's
going on. I knew things, not like I was happy
about it, but the same thing. It was just the
kind of the the okay, we're we're kind of a
relief relief of like I can stop now out and
I didn't, but you know, I get it. I get it.
(33:03):
So how how does life start turning around for you though?
Once you got into treatment um to where you are now?
How did how did it start turning around? I made
a promise to myself that I was gonna do whatever
anybody asked me that had to do with recovery, you know.
And I and again, like I, I approached it like
I did my fighting. I was going to be very
vigilant about and being regimented if you asked me to
(33:26):
do something, I did it, you know, and uh. And
there was times when I hated it, but I remember
what I told myself that I was gonna you know,
and that really that has served me even to this
day of like, I know, as long as I keep
doing the next right thing, uh, that whatever, this higher
power thing is going to keep taking care of me,
(33:46):
you know what I mean. And that really is like
every time I get stressed out or frustrated, I remember
what I had told myself and what I've told other
people I work with, and that just keep doing the
next right thing and that we're gonna stay vigilant about
this off And every time that I focused on my recovery,
life has just gotten better. You know, it hasn't. It
hasn't been exactly who I wanted, right, Uh. You know,
(34:10):
Like I tried fighting for a while afterwards, and I
was like, this is gonna be my big comeback into fighting,
and that didn't work out, so I was like ship.
But being able to do that, yeah, being able to
take that, you know, because hey man, we can say
what we want. When your career is over and you've
spent years doing that, you're gonna mourn that. You're gonna
(34:31):
mourn that being over and being able to do that
and not dip back into drugs. That's big time, man,
So well done it is. But I'm of the mind
to set of we guys like you and me, based
on the amount of like wreckage and pain that we
have in our life, we have no good excuse to
get high anymore, you know. Uh so so yeah you
(34:54):
mourn it, but like there's a lot of people who
mourn real death without getting high. Uh. And that's the
whole design for living thing that we've kind of committed to. Um,
that's really kind of what I've committed to. And and
it's like realizing that we don't have we don't have
that excuse. It's not there's no good reason for us
to do any of that anymore, you know what I mean? Absolutely.
(35:18):
You know you've talked about how hard it is to
struggle with addiction, but how much harder uh we make
it as a society for people with this disease. Um,
you know, what can we do better? Education? Always education?
You know that. Uh. I have a good friend who
runs a treatment center and runs a sober living place.
(35:41):
He's a clinical he's a head clinician there. And uh,
you know, the more that we educate people about the
stigma around it, you know, I mean, it's still like
mental health and addiction are still like really frowned upon.
People still think of this as as a weakness that
you and I have, And I'm like, man, I'm a
pretty strong fucking you know. I'll take a beating and
(36:01):
I'll keep going. But when it comes to this one thing,
whether it's for me several things by anxiety, my depression,
my addiction, you know, I got no answers for it.
And that to me, is not a weakness. That's just like,
that's something that there's an illness in my in my head,
you know, I mean. And and I think it's good
that people are starting to know more and more about
(36:22):
the disease of addiction. Yeah, but man, you can just
put that beautifully, I mean, and it's emotional growth to
know that, hey, look this is why we were doing
it all these years, and that that's a good feeling. Right.
For years, I didn't I didn't know why I was
doing things and what was wrong with me. And you know,
finally I went well, a lot of people struggle with
mental illness, and you know, I'm one of those people.
(36:45):
So once I could put my arms around it, you know,
it felt much better. It does, especially you know, I've
always had these anxiety and depression issues, but I've never
I've never really, it's just been a thing. But now
like I can recognize it and deal with it appropriately,
and I'm like, oh, ship, that's how you do that,
you know, Like I don't have to get high over
(37:06):
that to like mask whatever whatever it is. It's whatever
bothering you. I know, I know, it's so crazy. It's
an absolute mind fuck, it really is. And um, you know,
when when you look at all your opponents in the ring,
how does the fight against addiction stand up? So again,
(37:26):
it's almost like I'm never gonna if I'm fighting somebody,
I'm never gonna stop fighting until I'm until I am
separated from consciousness or or asleep from getting choked. The
biggest thing with this was like, you know, it's a corny,
hokey thing that you hear in like some of the programs,
but like I really surrendered and then I quit fighting
and that was that was that made it easy. So
(37:50):
is it a fight? Uh, it's not a fight. Like
I don't I don't wake up anymore going funk. I
want to get high, but I'm not going to do
it today. You know, I wake up every morning and
I really do kind of count my blessings and see
why I'm grateful for and the work that I have
to do for to stay sober is like minuscule compared
to what I had to do to get high and
(38:12):
to maintain that lifestyle. So I don't think it's a fight.
I really I don't. I don't view it as a fight.
You know, that's great, that's great. What does a day
in your life look like these days? In Albert? Kirt?
I'm super boring, man. I get up and do roofing
and then uh come home and see the family, hit
a meeting. You know, good. You know the meetings that
(38:32):
that's interesting too. You know, I did a ton of meetings,
and um, you know, getting clean and sober is different
for everybody. Uh. The one thing that I learned most
about those meetings though, was it's camaraderie and it's being
able to be with other people who you know, nobody's
(38:54):
putting on any airs. Everyone's a little bit fucked up
in here, and you know you can kind to share
in that and and other people's stories, and you know, um,
I think what you ever, you know, you said some
of its corny whatever, but it's seems important. It is important,
and you know a lot of that they're they're starting
to look at stuff is like you know, isolation is
(39:15):
being a really big deal for for addicts, you know.
And I'm a big fan of like, whatever way you
find your recovery is great for me, as long as
it's as long as it's working. I found it a
particular way, and I stick with that, you know. Uh.
And my big thing is not isolating myself for people,
you know. I mean this, the disease kind of wants
us dead and wants us alone for that to happen.
(39:39):
And they're starting to go more and more. They're starting
to see how just like you said, that camaraderie stuff
is really plays into, uh, plays into the real recovery,
you know. So now I'm gonna give you my uh
my credentials, my stats for my playing days. I was
about six four one. I have one ninety six six
(40:02):
or seven wingspan. Uh. I come walking into the gym,
How are you training me? And do I have any
sort of shot? Uh? You're gonna we're gonna use your
lengths obviously, okay. Yeah, And we're gonna keep you away
from people and and make sure you and I are
different fighters. I'm a short, little fire plug and I
like to get hit, but I don't want you. I
(40:23):
do not want you getting hit. So we're gonna learn
how to use your jab and your and your kicks
and stuff and keep you a distance till you can
hurt somebody. But man, I did a few, We did
a few boxing sort of workouts, uh or I've done
something in my life. And we did some with certain teams.
I mean one thing we did about basketball drill. We
(40:43):
just ran around the court with our arms up like
this for three minutes, thinking, you know, that's not too bad.
You get to about a minute and you and you
guys gotta be up like this all the time. People
don't understand the endurance and the strength and the uh,
the mental fortitude. It's a lot. Man. It's like like
(41:04):
getting to any I consider the UFC a high level.
I never got to the heights of the UFC that
I think I should have. But like, once you're there,
like you you've developed a work ethic and a and
a mental fortitude that that it's crazy, man. And like
and for any any sport, like at a pro level,
even if you're riding a bench, you're gad, dude, you
(41:26):
know what question about it? Yeah, you put your time
in a lot of practice, a lot of muscle memory,
and you can't fake that stuff, you know, So that's
always what's abusing to me. Sorry, I'm gonna mention your
your social media stuff here a little bit because I
love it than man. Yeah, well I I do it.
It's cool to see you use your platform the way
you do. Um. You know, I'm a fairly left leaning
(41:48):
guy as you are, and it's it's good to see
guys like you and what's his face David Bautista and
guys like that really kind of uh putting it out there.
And I mean, you guys do have you? Guys are
like he has a whole fan base. It probably believes
that that Trump still won, right, but he's not afraid
(42:08):
to at this point. He does it, but he's not
afraid to lose that popularity because he knows what it,
what it means for real, you knows to be to
be real and honest. Yeah. I appreciate that too, And
it's cool to see guys like you who have like
who really have that using it for what it what
it should be used for. Man, you know, I wish
(42:28):
I had the balls that you have. Most of the time. Yeah, well,
let's leave on this the fight for sobriety and the
journey you've had and been on. What do you want
to tell others out there who are struggling, Like my man,
don't be afraid to open up about it. If you're struggling,
talk to somebody, and like, I don't give that lip service.
(42:48):
There's other guys on on Twitter who I talk to,
who I know personally, I answer messages when somebody says
they're fucking hurting. I mean, like I really I don't
give that lip service because it is like there needs
to be somebody to listen, and there needs to be
somebody to listen when somebody really needs to reach out.
So reach out and fucking find some and be if
(43:09):
you can be of service and be the person to listen,
do that, you know, I mean, you never know what
you're gonna affect, so and you never know what another
person is going through, and sometimes it just takes an ear,
you know, to help help them get through their day. Right,
there's a lot, like I said, there's a lot of
strong people who have run their fucking cars in the
walls because they've never just opened up, you know, And
(43:32):
that's that's the that's the truth, Isaac Man. I can't
thank you enough for coming on the show. Um. I
think the world of you and much continued success. My
door is always open to your brother. Thank you, man, say,
I appreciate it. This was this is a good time
and it's nice to actually finally talk to you and
not just see a block or charge you know here,
(43:54):
all right, man, thank you so much. All right, thanks man,
talk to you soon. Seven Runniens with the charges ship Lee, Sender,
tenors and ballers and charges the Celebrity gang forms and charges.
We came along way from living lawless charges selling a
Runniens with the charges shot Lee, Sender, tenors and ball
ass and charges Shi the Celebrity Gang forms charge. We
(44:17):
came along way from living lawless charge charge
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