May 25, 2021 • 56 mins
Chris Herren’s rise to stardom and brief NBA career is one of the most tragic and fascinating stories in recent sports history. For the fourth episode of Charges, Rex brings Chris onto the show to discuss: Reaching out to an old friend about Chris (3:33), Growing up in Fall River, Massachusetts & choosing Boston College with his boys (5:16), being introduced to cocaine & being kicked out of BC (13:38), going to Fresno State & being sent to rehab (17:29), getting drafted into the NBA & Draft Night (20:36), playing in Denver (25:09), being traded to Boston, Oxycontin & contemplating suicide (31:06), the recovery process (44:28), speaking at schools, prisons & giving people a second chance (48:49) & more.
Follow @c_herren, @HerrenTalks & @HerrenProject
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Charges. That's created by Poor Delays and Control Media. It's
produced by dB Podcasts in association with I Heart Radio.
This time a former Son's player who you might remember
as t Rex. More video in just a moment, But
this is Rex Chapman's mug shot, and we are learning
a lot more about the Charge Up the Chargeman. I
(00:21):
remember coming out of jail that night and I remember
calling the guy who should it to me and like, listen,
I need more because him is so good. It almost
killed me. You know, I wish people challenged me in
other areas of my life. My wife is less than
a quarter mile away from this scene, and she's about
to find out that her husband is a heroin addict.
(00:45):
You're a walking, fucking miracle man. Welcome to Charges. I'm
your host, Rex Chapman. Today on the show, we have
perhaps one of the best players to have his career
and potential completely ruined by addiction. Compared to a lot
of the guests we'll have on this show, you might
not know him, so let me give you a little background.
(01:07):
Chris got his own Sports Illustrated photo shoot, which in
was about as big a deal as trimming on Twitter
for a week straight I spoke with a number of
Chris's former coaches, teammates, and opponents, including our resident two
time NBA MVP Slash Charges executive co producer Steve Nash,
and he told me that Chris should have played in
(01:27):
the NBA for ten, twelve, fourteen years he played for two.
Come join us today on a crazy and in some
ways cathartic episode of Charges with us Today is Chris Harren,
perhaps one of the best players to have his career
(01:49):
and potential completely ruined by addiction. Chris was the pride
of Fall River, Massachusetts who became a McDonald's All American.
He would land at Boston College and go on and
start at Fresno's a under legendary coach Jerry tart Kanian.
But we will get into why he changed schools later.
He was drafted by the Denver Nuggets in the second
round of the ninety nine NBA Draft thirty third overall,
(02:12):
and then played for his hometown Boston Celtics the following season.
He then head overseas to play basketball in China, Turkey, Italy,
Poland I Ran. He did all of this while battling
a massive drug addiction. A drug addiction so consuming that
he would overdose and need to be brought back from
the dead more than once. You might know of Chris
if you're a true hoops junkie, which if you think
(02:34):
about it, what a term, right, or you may know
him from the incredible documentary on him as part of
ESPNS thirty for thirty series called Unguarded by Jonathan Hawk,
or his memoir Basketball Junkie. Chris is an author, motivational speaker,
and wellness advocate. Chris has founded three organizations that provide
programs and services with the goal of overcoming setbacks and
(02:57):
navigating life's challenges. It's great honor to be here with
Chris today. And Chris, I'm so glad you survived to
talk with me. Bro. No man, I'm honored honestly, you know. Uh,
you know, aside from everything you just talked about. Um,
you know you are one of the reasons why I
picked up a basketball. You know, there's no doubt about that.
(03:17):
So I remember, you know, cutting out sports illustrated pitches
of you, and so it is it's great to be here,
and um, I'm glad we're here in this uh talking
about recovery and so on. That's really cool bro, Thank you. Um. Yeah,
I reached out to a guy yesterday who I spent
time with in the NBA, A coach. Um. Now, he's
(03:40):
not much older than I am, but I reached out
to him yesterday because I told him, I said, weren't
you uh with Chris? At one point he said yes,
And I want to read you what he said. See
if you can guess who it is, I'm sure you can. Wow.
I love Chris, everyone does. Most likable kid I ever coached,
even and back then, very unselfish. Only player who would
(04:02):
actually buy me lunch. I remember doing defensive slides with
him on his recruiting trip in his hotel room, showing
him we could teach him to guard the ball. He
knew he could score, but was concerned he wouldn't be
able to guard. Who is it? Johnny Welch. Johnny Welch,
Johnny Well you know exactly how great is that? Dude? Yeah?
(04:23):
He's the best. He I mean, I want to be
here today. Um. He made me, you know, he brought
me into the lab and created this basketball player. So
you know, without John Welch, I would have never made
it past college. Um. But what people don't know about
our relationship too is he was instrumental into supporting my
(04:45):
recovery as well as introducing me to recovery. So on
so many levels, so impactful. You know, just a great man,
a great mind, a great soul and uh you know,
nothing but cherished beautiful memories of Johnny Welch. That's so
great here, Yes, truly hit son. Riley has been playing
(05:06):
here at Kentucky the last few years as a walk
on so and he just graduated. So I can't believe
that he was just a little guy. It seems like yesterday,
you know, could you please, you know, set the scene
where you're from Fall River in Massachusetts. The city it
seems like it shaped you. And as a kid from Kentucky,
I can kind of understand that. Tell me about fall River,
(05:28):
you know, Fall River was a booman city back in
the twenties and the thirties, textile, a lot of mills um,
but a lot of blue collar, a lot of blue
collar people, hard working. You know, the city in itself
is a tough city. But you know the lineage, the
history of diffy basketball just you know, growing up in
(05:51):
that time. You know the Celtics, you know they were
kind of second back seat to diffy basketball. To me
as a kid, you know, diffy basketball meant everything to me,
you know, especially with no internet and no access. You know,
all I cared about it was Tuesdays and Friday nights
going to watch diffy basketball. So you know, my father
(06:13):
played hoop. My brother was unbelievably successful as a high
school basketball player. Did you guys play together? You and
your brother? He was older by too much, right, yeah? Yeah,
so he You know, I came in his freshman year
of college. So I was a freshman in high schoolhen
he was a freshman in college. You know, I was
blessed with probably more athletic ability. He was blessed with
(06:34):
more heart in a sense, you know, in toughness. Yeah yeah,
I mean, you know he's he but come on, yeah yeah, yeah,
well listen, I was blessed with enough of it accepted. Yeah. Yeah. Um,
you know, he was a tough act to follow, and
playing in front of, as you know, thousands and thousands
(06:55):
of people as a fourteen fifteen year old kind of
shapes you and sometimes negative I understand that. Man. You know,
the town I grew up in sixty thou people, Owensboro, Kentucky,
and four high schools my dad coached. He played, he
played an old a B A but he you know,
I was always Wayne Chapman's son. But he coached at
Apollo High School, and that's all I wanted to do,
(07:19):
was the only thing I wanted to do. I went
to his practices every day. Nothing else mattered. And you know,
as I grew up, you know, started getting better and
better and stuff, but it was always rewarded, you know, positively.
When that's all I knew how to do. I didn't
give a shit about anything else, school, nothing else, you know.
So I wonder, you know how similar that might have
(07:42):
been for you playing for Durfy completely. You know, I
often tell people, especially when I speak to kids, like,
you know, I wish people challenged me in other areas
of my life, you know, like I wish somebody came
up to me and you know, and said, you're really
good at basketball, but you really struggle, you know, being yourself.
And you can play and perform in front of a
(08:03):
lot of people and score a lot of points, but
you really struggle with yourself on a Friday night with
kids that you've known your whole life. So you know,
in my my mission today and all the public speaking
I do and all the kids I'm in front of,
you know, it's about awareness. It's about you know, challenging
our children socially and emotionally and exposing them to different
(08:25):
life skills, coping skills, skills that I never had. And
you know, I'm listening to you talk about you know,
you didn't care about school and it was just scoop,
and internally I kind of cringe, right, because that's that's
the thing. Yeah, I mean, that's one of the things
I'm most embarrassed by, you know, is that lack of
(08:46):
effort that I put in into so many other areas
of my life. Lack of curiosity. That's what gets me,
you know, just I didn't care if somebody did tell
me I was messing up. I remember them telling me
in school sophomore year, and I had no plans on
leaving school early, but they said, rex, you know, this
is a class you're gonna need. And I was like,
(09:06):
I'm not gonna need that. I'm not gonna need that,
and then I left. And then guess what that degree
would have been coming really handy about seven or eight
years ago, right, you know, I couldn't even coach basketball
because I don't have a degree. So you're in high school.
You're dominating though on the court, you know, but off
the court, what were your vices? What were you doing? Drinking? Smoking,
(09:29):
you know, and did that affect your game at all
as a high schooler? You know, I think so drinking
and smoking primarily occasional pills. Right, If I could get
my hands on if some valu yeah, if some parents
had surgery, will get ahold of their Viking ins um,
someone you know had their wisdom teeth pulled, or you know,
(09:50):
one of our friends had a little orthoscopic surgery. So
we weren't afraid of that. From the outside looking in,
I would say a lot of people would not have
projected my struggle because the game of basketball took me
away from it. It was an escape for those two hours,
and you're dominating. You know, you feel superhuman in many ways, right, Yeah,
(10:12):
And not to mention the fact too, like, you know,
a AU was just kind of coming into its own
and it was yet to be taken over by the
sneaker companies. But I was playing you know, seventy eight
Games of Summer, right, So I'm traveling to Vegas to
Tennessee to Florida. So I'm away from the scene. It's
(10:35):
just when I come back to the scene, right, I
come back and I dive right in part of me.
And I don't know if you struggled with that, but
I wanted to be normal, and you know, like I
was envious to the kids who didn't have, you know,
all this pressure, you know, in this ability, and I
just wanted to be normal, right, And you know, it
(10:56):
is kind of like the whole be careful what you
wish for. I dreamt all of my friends from age
eight to grow to be able to play basketball. They
all dreamed for it, and then it happened to me.
You know, I just wanted to get a scholarship somewhere.
What I wasn't prepared for was I was so socially
inept if I wasn't around my good friends when I
(11:18):
came to Kentucky. Part of me coming to Kentucky was
that I got to bring two of my boys from
high school to live in the dorm. That was the deal.
That was the deal, A part of the deal. So
and they did you know they lived downstairs, my twins,
Kevin and Keith Vanderpool. There my boys to this day.
But I almost had no confidence around anyone else. I
(11:39):
got really weirded out with people looking at me, wondering
if they were talking about me, talking shit about me,
or are they loving me up? And and I in
securities of the time. They're lining me up, you know,
they're sizing me up. They're not saying, oh, look at
Chris Harren, What a good guy. You know, I'm thinking
immediately they're talking about me. So um, and that's alcoholism
(12:01):
at its best in a sense, right, is untreated alcoholism.
But um, you know, I too did not have the
deal on the table of bringing my homeboys to Fresnel.
But but they I know they were there, but they
came anyway. We're gonna get to that. But part of
(12:21):
that high school thing. And I didn't win, Chris, I
didn't win in college. We were good, but we didn't
win it. But we won the third region to go
to the state tournament my junior year in high school.
And it might I feel because all my boys got
to do that. They got to go and play in
rupp Arena. I knew I was gonna go and play later,
but it's you know, so that high school thing huge
(12:46):
special especial it's you know, and and unfortunately, right, so
during high school, they were writing a book about you know,
Far of a Dreams and you know in that book
are quite a few of my friends, and you know,
we all struggled, right, we all struggled like whether it
was heroin, cocaine, alcoholism. And you know, I say to
(13:09):
kids all the time, like, you know, that's the scariest
thing about addiction. Nobody knows who has it yet, you know,
nobody knows who's gonna be the one suffering so much
as an adult, you know, because of some of the
decisions we're making today. And you know, to grow up
and walk to school with these kids and go to
elementary and recess and play whoop in their driveways and
(13:29):
you know, go down to parks, and then fast forward
twenty years later, we're all shooting heroin and jam and
coke op on those you know, it's tragic, it is.
Take me to your dorm room at Boston College. You know,
cocaine's a serious step up from weed and booze and
pills um. And that wasn't that long after Lenny Bias
had died, which was a huge deal nationally and especially
(13:51):
in Boston. What was it about that coach that intrigued you?
Because I played against guys with guys who did coke
who and they were a fucking nightmare to guard. And
I assumed if I did that, I would a die
right away or I would love it, and so I
(14:11):
never did it. So I'm really intrigued to know. And
how did it make you feel? Playing as well? It
probably would have had the same exact effect on you
that it did on me, um, because and only people
that really partied on coke can identify with this. But
it was kind of my truth serum. It allowed me
(14:34):
at three thirty in the morning to sit there on
a couch and talk about who I was, my feelings
when I'm struggling with It just opened me up and
it made me unbelievably transparent and vulnerable. Now, you know,
at three o'clock the next afternoon, when I'm just shaking
it off and waking up, I'm like, what did I
(14:56):
talk about? You know what I mean? But at that moment,
you know that social awkwardness that you talked about, you know,
it takes yeah, and it takes that away. It takes
that away, and it kind of it allows you to
kind of spill your guts. Um, that was one of
the attractive things to me. You know, obviously I had
(15:18):
no idea you know how attracted I'd be to it.
You know, I I truly said it, and I meant it,
you know, because of Lenny Bias. Right, I'm saying to myself,
I'll do this one time and I'll never do it again.
And fourteen years later, Um, but it's a tough drug.
My dorm room, you know, eighteen years old, five in
(15:39):
the morning and I'm watching kids carrying their backpacks going
to class, and you know, I was just I couldn't
identify right, and I'm depressed and I'm digging a hole.
And I just remember the Boston College Athletic director, you know,
bringing me into his office and saying, we need to
help you, and I need you to to write down
who your teaches us I can contact them. And I
(16:01):
was like, buddy, I don't even know my teachers. You know, yeah,
I'm with you. And that was like three months in
four months in you know what I mean. I just
I just didn't know him. I wasn't going And you
know I say that laughing because you and I can
identify but also with great embarrassment. After breaking his risk
(16:23):
during a Boston College home game in November of things
started going off and into the rails of cocaine addiction.
Within three months of his injury, Chris failed two more
drug tests for marijuana and cocaine use. He was expelled
from the team and the university. So you get kicked
out at BC. How crushing was that? You know you
(16:43):
live not far away. Yeah, it was crushing. I couldn't
wrapped my head around it, you know what I mean.
I was doing a lot of coke, a lot of party,
and it's embarrassing. Right. So I had just got done
being a feature in Sports Illustrated coming off the McDonald's
All American Game. BC was you know, we had a
top five recruiting class, so there were high expectations and
(17:04):
then it's over and any in hindsight, right, my mother
she's at the time, you know, thirty nine years old
and she's got to find out her son has a
major cocaine addiction, you know. So it's just devastating on
so many levels. I can dive into it a little
bit more today than I did at eighteen. I was
(17:25):
just like, yeah, big mistake. Let's keep it moving. You know,
when you go to Fresno in the middle of nowhere,
friends they move out there with you. Uh do you
ever think, man, I gotta find a way to stay
away or did you think, you know, these are my people,
they'll help keep me safe. Could you even negotiate that
I wouldn't keep them safe? You know what I mean? Like,
(17:45):
that's the thing I remember growing up as a kid,
and I remember, you know, parents say, oh, you gotta
stay away from that kid, you know, And I'm like,
you have no idea they have. Parents are saying the
same thing about me, you know, Like you know, people
tell me, like, you can't hang out with your friends.
Those friends don't shouldn't be hanging out with me, you know.
(18:06):
I mean, let's keep it real, right, So I fight
out to Fresno and I get put in the arms
of Danny Tarkanian and John Welch, And that year of
sitting out was so there was so much relief, right,
no pressure. You were crushing them, bro, I mean crushing
(18:27):
them your body. You know you were. You could tell
you look different if you look at my sophomore year,
that red shirt year to my sophomore year, my body.
Johnny Welch had my body like I was a fighter.
You know, I was ready and he put me in
that position. And you know we played. There was some
great players at Fresno and extremely competitive. Johnny Welsh could play. Oh,
(18:48):
he could play man. Yeah, got after it too, after
you Yeah, and you know he'll listen to this. But
what Johnny Welch won't tell anybody. I think he's for
three on right hooks on me. I ducked them all.
(19:09):
I've I've you got some fight to get your background too,
and I know he does too. He gives no fox man,
I mean on the nicest guy though off the court.
Nicest guy, yeah. The great and future Hall of Famer
Jerry Tart Kanyan May you rest in peace, gave Chris
a second chance to play by bringing him cross country
(19:29):
to Fresno State in Chris made his debut for the Bulldogs,
but after a breakout season under coach Tark, Chris's addiction
caught up to him once again. Chris felt a drug
test during his junior year and was forced to go
to rehab, the first of many trips he would make
over the next several decades. I saw your press conference
(19:51):
I saw your press conference and just started bawling because
I mean I could say you couldn't look you couldn't
look at anybody. The breaking news concerns one of Jerry
Tarkanians star basketball players. There's a news conference about to
get underway at President State, and perhaps some of you
may know. I haven't battled the first one problem for
the past four years. I am his days every one
(20:12):
I sent back in that clips up. It's time for
mental focus. I'll get Hi my letter back in auto
and discussion this feep with my doctor's coach kid clue
that should sep away for the best ball program. I
fress I finis I We'll be back to oh my
(20:33):
best Thank you now. This was June, But imagine this
scenario happening in today's seven news cycle. A top draft
prospect battling addiction coming soon to an NBA team near you.
Today's NBA franchises wouldn't touch Hearon or anyone else with
(20:54):
a ten football, A true testament to just how gifted
he was as a player. To tends to have executives
turning a blind eye or two two holes in character.
For Chris, it was more of a growing chasm ever
eroding before our eyes. What do you remember about your
(21:15):
you know, your pre draft workouts and draft night specifically,
you know, I remember just in complete fear, right like
if it wasn't for Danis. So Dannis still gave me
a little bit of comfort, you know, like he Kentucky Wildcats. Yeah,
no doubt, no doubt. And I remember working out for
the Nuggets and him throw me in his car and
(21:36):
driving me back down to the Pepsi Center, and you know,
we both shared stories about our childhood and what we
had to face and what we went through. And I
felt that if at thirty three Dennis who was going
to take me after our conversation, So that gave me
a little comfort I was sitting that was kind of
your backstop, no doubt. And it was a very guard
(21:59):
dom minute draft, like Baron Davis and Steve Francis and
William Avery and Fontigo coming. There was just a lot
of guards going in the first round. So you know,
I fell and I waited for you know, Daniel, and
and I was fortunate enough to land there. I uh,
it was a party. The streets shut down in four River,
(22:20):
you know, we were escorted in My wife and I
and you know, the party began, the celebration began, and
it was just another mountain to climb, though, you know,
like as exciting as it was, like I saw another
mountain and I was like, fuck, man, I gotta climb
this one too. I watched your your draft footage, and
(22:40):
I was just every pick that went by. Of course,
like every fan, I'm just crushed and crushed and for
your wife, Heather, and and you're a young man who's
already been in rehab, man who's already been and I
can't imagine that. But on the drive down to the party,
you were so excited, so excited in the car and
(23:00):
you got out and immediately you got up in front
of these people and you they are your people, but
you got emotional. You felt like you had something to prove. Still.
It was beautiful and heart wrenching all at the same time.
(23:21):
I thank everyone for coming down here. This has been
We all fought for this for a long time, and
everyone stood behind me throughout this whole thing. And thirty
three number one, it feels the same, and it's has
(23:46):
time to relax and have fun and let's enjoy the
playing dead. You know, so many emotions right, so much
hard work, so much you know, commitment, you know, all
the people who questioned me and my addiction, and like
you said, you know, being in rehab at twenty and
(24:09):
one years old and facing that adversity to finally get there.
But for me, it was a little different, right Like
when I jumped on that plane to go to Fresno,
I had no plans on playing in the n b A.
I had zero plans. I just wanted to be a
good college basketball player, and I wanted to prove myself
at that level. John Welch put that dream in me,
(24:32):
and he made me realize, well, maybe I can. So
it was hard work, It was a lot of dedication,
It was a lot of discipline. But there was a
lot of sadness to it, and there was a lot
of emotion attached to it. So I was so far
away from living in the moment, you know, the way
we lived, the way I lived today, living one day
(24:52):
at a time. I was so far away from that mindset,
and I just wish that I could have cherished those
moments when they they weren't cherishable. Bro, I feel so
much of what you're saying. You know, I reached out
to several people that I know knew you for this,
you know, Rick Pattino, Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, every last
(25:13):
one of them talk about what a good player you were,
what a great guy you are. Your teammates always loved you,
and that speaks volumes. So you're in Denver your rookie year,
and I think you played out there with a couple
of well at least with one guy, Dice. Antonio mcdice,
he was my young guy in in Phoenix, but then
he ends up out there with you guys and Nick
(25:34):
Van Exel. Who else was on that team? And what
was it like playing on that team? Was it? And
what was your Holy shit, I'm in the NBA moment, phenomenal,
phenomenal team. Just men, right, Bryant Stith, Popeye, Jones, Roy Rodgers, Uh, Antonio, Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. Um,
(26:00):
just a lot of Chauncey Billups, Ron Mercer was on
that team, um for a little bit, and just a
lot of as salt of the Earth type dudes. George
McLeod who I spent most of my time with, right,
Big George, I know, Big George, Roy Rogers and mcdice,
great teammate, you know, he was. He was a special guy,
(26:22):
and they were all you know, they embraced me. Antonio
took care of me. You know, I could honestly like,
I love Antonio mcdyce for what he did for me.
Uh dude, one of the sweetest people you'll you'll ever meet, right, No, humble, kind,
very kind, very soft. And you know, I was playing
my NB a moment um, you know, just one of
(26:45):
them and includes Dice. I was coming down the court
and I just threw it and I was like, uh fuck,
like this is going in the third row. And he
just came out of nowhere and was like, I'll take that.
And I was just like, that's the NBA. Welcome to
the NBA. I'm telling you, it wasn't an amazing We
(27:05):
used to because when I was playing in probably that
still had illegal defense. So what we would do, I'd
run a side pick and roll. Dice would come out
and when they would push it down to the baseline,
I would just fly straight to the baseline, running out
of bounds because they couldn't help on the week side,
and Dice would go to the rim and I just
just throw it up and he would catch it anywhere.
(27:28):
I mean imagine being able to do that totally. He
uh see, when I was with them, you got spurts
to that right, Like moments he became just like this
unbelievable turnaround seventeen Sea shooter, right yeah, just amazing automatic yeah,
automatic automatic. So um, you know, but many moments I
(27:51):
remember Dannisti looking down the bench and saying like come
on in, you know, and and entering that game for
the first time. Um, you know, I remember having such fear.
You know, like the guards today they don't experience, you know,
getting put in the post, and you know, being a
six one six two white kid, I'm like Gary Payton
(28:13):
Jason Kidd, like these guys are gonna drag me down
into the block tonight. You know, I would lose sleep
over that. Yeah, you know the same as me. You know,
I played in an era where Clyde Drexler and m
J and Glenn Rice are the two's and I'm just
gonna get posted up all night. I better be really good.
On the other hand, right, it's a completely different game.
I needed like twelve fouls if I was gonna, I
(28:37):
was gonna guard that. Um. But you know that experience
in Denver, was it was beautiful. It really was like
I had my moments, you know, I remember and George McLeod,
he'll remember this. I remember, you know, being at the
Rolex in Miami and you know what I mean. And
(28:58):
that was and that was for Rick Ross made it
pretty right, like the Rolex was grimy and yes dirty,
and I didn't go back with the rest of the guys.
And I just remember coming in at like four thirty
five thirty in the morning and Big George kind of
like grabbing me and saying, like, this isn't how we're
doing it. You talk about that team with such reverence.
(29:20):
It's like a couple of my Phoenix teams, you know,
where I just felt I was playing my best. You
know what breaks my heart is that this is your
rookie year. And that's what I asked Stevie Nash. I said,
how good was Chris? He said he was really good,
and he said, you know who knows. But there was
no reason he shouldn't have banged out ten, twelve, fourteen
years in the NBA, and maybe whatever happened was going
(29:43):
to happen. I just wish that you could have had
a little bit more of that in Denver for another
couple of years to maybe see, if you know, some
of that behavior that you were exhibiting could have become
habit and that growth, right, I had a lot of
growth that year, you know, to be with Chauncey and
watch the Popeye Jones and they were very selfless, right,
(30:06):
I played with very selfless men that year, and they
were older. So I remember getting traded to the Celtics
and I was supposed to be excited and I was hotbroken.
See June comes true thrown up right down the street.
Is uh, It's an amazing things to this day to come.
You know. I dreamed about this a long long time
(30:28):
ago as a little kids. So I can't say enough
about it. You know. I've also been traded more than
once in my career, and let me tell you, it's
hard having to uproot your whole life, family and future.
October seventeen, two thousand, a day that changed Chris's life forever.
On this day, Chris Herron and Bryant's Death were traded
(30:49):
to the Boston Celtics by the Denver Nuggets on Monday
for Robert Pack and Calbert Cheney. I can't even imagine
how conflicted Chris must have felt heyding from a group
of veterans in Denver who had his back to a
Celtics team in search of chemistry. Years before re establishing
a championship pedigree. Chris was nearly twenty five. That trade
(31:12):
back home was the beginning of the end for him
in the league and the start of his road to
a life where he would play only twenty five games
in Celtic Green. He would never make it back to
the NBA. When you get traded to the Celtics, it
kind of falls apart. Tell me about what you were doing,
who you're doing it with, uh, and how that double
life felt? Brutal right? It was, you know, twenty two
(31:36):
hours a day was dedicated to keeping this secret and
the other two was to practice with Rick Pottino, you know,
so you know I was introduced to Oxy's It was,
you know, right right around nine thousands, and it wasn't
in the headlines, you know, the head We were on
the cutting edge. Yeah, we want exactly on the cutting
(31:59):
edge and that and at that time they were calling
it hill billy heroin. That's what they were calling it
back then, hill billy heroin. And it seemed to settle
you know, in the Kentucky West Virginia, Ohio, and then
it skipped and it went up to Maine and then
it worked its way down. But I just as I say,
I'm one of the unfortunate ones that takes a painkiller
(32:21):
and feels phenomenal. You know, I wish I was that
guy who threw up and couldn't take it. Does do
that thing that we talked about earlier. Though I remember
taking it in two days, I knew I was in
love what it did. It made me feel nicer, Like
people would come up to me, chatty, people would come
up to me, and you know, people maybe at one
(32:41):
of my son's baseball games that only wants to talk
about basketball, and all of a sudden I was talking
to him about basketball. I felt like a nicer, better
person and that was pretty alluring to me. And I
can only imagine it had to feel a bit the same,
no doubt, And you know it's I jumped, you know,
(33:03):
from forty milligrams to milligrams quickly, you know, like I
would be out with people and they would know the
extent of what I was taking and they would shake
their head, and I'm like, that's just to get right
you know, like I didn't. I mean, I'm I'm right,
you know, I'm functioning, I'm playing, I'm practicing. Um, did
(33:24):
your body ever give out? Only when I didn't have it? Right,
It's when I didn't have it then that's when that's when, Yeah,
so sick. So if I had it, I was okay.
And that doesn't mean I was okay. I could have
had oxy cotton every day and never felt that sickness
in my career would have nos dived, you know, because
the grind, you know, the time, the energy, the emotion
(33:48):
that's put to that addiction is just ruthless, and you
know all of the other things that come along with it,
the health and some of the things that you go
through when you know, uh, heavily dependent on opiates, but
a lot of lonely nights, man, a lot of a
lot of lonely nights. And I just remember remember going
(34:08):
to bed at night and saying to myself, like, what
is it going to be like when everyone finds out?
You know, what is this? What is this going to
look like? And you feel like a fraud? That felt
big time, big time, and uh, you know, I was
just saying this. There was a time especially during the Celtics, right,
I had access to money, and I would deal with
(34:31):
guys and I would show up and I would buy,
you know, thirty forty OxyS and they would pull me
to the side and say, like Chris, like, you have
a lot of money, man, just buying bok, why do
you keep coming out? And in hindsight, looking back at
that behavior, like sadly, I just wanted that day to
be my last day, you know, so I just kept
(34:53):
coming every day, you know, when I could have dropped
twenty grand on the table and said give me and
paid a lot less for it, right, right, But I
didn't want that many on me because I had the
the ambition and the gold to quit, but I didn't
have the tools. Yeah, it reminds me. I say, I
was just fortunate that I was finished playing. Well, I
(35:13):
really wasn't. I had another three years left on my deal.
But I was hurt and all of that. However, the
second I took oxy Con, I never played another game
in the NBA. I retired shortly thereafter because that's all
I wanted to do. And I remember driving from Phoenix
down to Tucson. You know, I couldn't get him from
the doctors anymore. I'm taking like fifty sixty Viking in
(35:34):
today about ten oxies and just chewing them up, you know.
And so at some point and I got tired of
running around two dealers. So somebody told me, hey, you
can go down to Tucson right out the back of CVS,
you know, meet my boy down there. And so two
or three times, man, I drove from Tucson back to
Phoenix and probably speeding, you know, in a sports car.
(35:57):
And I've got four big bottles see under, you know,
five hundred apiece in there, so two thousand pills. If
I'm pulled over and there for me, they are for me.
But if I'm pulled over, I'm not sharing them. And
so but if I'm pulled over, just they're taking me
to prison. This is with intent to distribute. And that's
(36:18):
the end, because they're not going to believe that I'm
taking all that ship. It's mind boggling to me. How
many times did you get in trouble with the law?
Do you remember? You know, the law started coming when
Heroin came. A former high school basketball star is in
trouble with the law. Chris Heron made a name for
himself at Diffy High School in Fall River before playing
(36:39):
at Fresno State and going tow On Friday, Heron was
arrested in Portsmouth on drug charges. Investigators claimed heroin residue
was found in That's when I really started to struggle
as far as dealing with with Lauren Fossman because of
the overdoses. Right, and and that's another thing, Like I
(37:00):
did most of my heroine and most of my oxy's
in the car, Like I would drive down, get it,
do it, and go back to my home empty handed. Right,
So most of my use was between point A and
point B, right from the dealer's house to my house.
It was all gone. So there was a lot of
(37:20):
you know, multiple times I overdosed um, you know while
in my vehicle, so d uise and so on and
so far started coming pretty regularly. You know. When I
overdosed for the first time, it was in two thousand four,
and you know, I was in a dunkin Donuts drive
through and I took my foot off the brake and boom,
I bumped into the woman in front of me. You know,
(37:42):
when I come through and uh, you know, there's blue
bags everywhere. A hypodermic needle, and I'm like, my life
just changed forever, and everybody who loved me, you know,
Like my wife is less than a quarter mile away
from this scene, and she's about to find out that
her husband is a heroin addict. And you know, the
(38:06):
next day the Boston Herald, the headline was, what a
shame is that your rock bottom? Gosh no, no, no,
I had so many of them. Um, you know, And
that's the thing, right, Like it's every day, you know that,
like every day is low, you know, like there's no
good days. There's no good days when you know, I'm
(38:28):
looking at my children and I'm then going to the
A T M Machine to spend five dollars. Yeah, it's
maddening and it's psychotic, you know. You you said it
so well. I Mean, one moment, all we can think
about is ourselves, and then the next moment, the second
we get in trouble or whatever, we start thinking about
(38:49):
all those people who love us. Isn't that amazing? Yeah? Yeah,
And listen, you know two thousand four people weren't really
overdosing on heroin, right, Like it was so uncommon and
that it almost somewhat flew under the radar. You know,
like a weirdly but you know, I I remember coming
out of jail that night and I remember calling the
(39:11):
guy who who sold it to me and like, listen,
I need more because it was so good it almost
killed me, you know. And that's how sad we are,
you know, that's how sick we get that we wake
up every day to pay to take a chance of Diane.
You know, every day we chased death for that feeling.
You know. So I remember going on the Texas road trip, right,
(39:34):
and I'm like, fuck, like Texas. That means we're going
for like seven days, eight days. That's stress man, right,
So I would just fly him. I would FedEx fly
him down. So when I got to certain hotels, whether
it's in San Antonio or Dallas, the concierge would say,
you know, Mr Herron, you have a package. You know.
(39:55):
That was a full time job. Well, Christmas rear would
continue overseas. This would begin a downward spiral of drug
use and charges, tabulating seven felonies in all. This included
a then thirty three year old Heron being arrested for
alleged heroin possession after police found him slumped over the
(40:16):
steering wheel of his vehicle in June two thousand and eight.
The car was partially on the sidewalk with its engine
running and in gear. Police said, with the amount of
times Chris used in his vehicle, it's blind luck he
didn't hurt anyone. And then he lived to share his story.
I remember you'll like this. I'm playing in Turkey and
(40:37):
Istanbul and I had a guy shipped me out a
bunch and I remember going to the place to pick
it up and I opened up the package and all
the pills are gone, and a guy in customs wrote
me a nice note saying like this is unbelievably disappointing
that this is what y'all life has turned to, Like,
(40:57):
guess some help for your family man, And he took
them all, but I could see all the green oxy
from the eighties still stuck to the newspaper. But the
build up to that was I had an inclination walking
into that package place in Istanbul that someone had gone
through my package. And when they walked out, it was
(41:19):
wrapped in yellow tape and they said, do you want
to claim this? And I was like, I want to
claim that, just in case, just in case, you know. So, yeah,
So the madness that comes with, you know, with that drug,
the desperation, um, you know was the everyday thing. Yeah, Um,
(41:40):
I want to take a moment if you're comfortable talking about,
you know, getting clean. I was in rehab three times,
and I want to tell you just from I've always
been felt very fortunate, especially after going to rehab, that
I never stuck a needle in my arm. You're a walking,
fucking miracle man. You know, it was long odds making
(42:01):
it to the NBA, but what you're doing now, well,
it's life changing, not just for you, but for a
lot of people. Talk to me about your getting clean,
the sobriety how you know, I know everybody's different. You
and I we had to get off of opioids, which
is essentially heroin, right and in your case actual heroin.
So what was your process of getting clean? You know,
(42:24):
towards the end, I was so out of money, right,
like we were living so rough. Do you remember? And
see how you say that right now and you say
it and it just rolls out. I say it myself,
but I also remember there was a time where that
was I was terrified of But what if I have
to say that someday? Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and you know,
(42:44):
like we're talking, you know, not enough money to pay bills,
no lights, no heat, and and we will live in
rough and I had run out of things to sell.
You know, the pawn shops wanted nothing to do with
me anymore. So I was I primarily was become a
vodka drinker. Right. Vodka shuts the noise off, It hits
(43:06):
you quick. And occasionally I would mix heroin in and
you know that last overdose two, you know, wake up
at thirty two, and you know, all I could think
about was killing myself. Like I was like, you know what,
like I can't do this to my kids anymore, you know,
like my poor children. You know, they deserve so much
(43:27):
more than what I'm giving them. And you hit a pole, right,
a pole, and they you were supposedly dead for thirty seconds?
Is that true? Well, just knock can right, the knock can.
So is that what happened? Yeah? Yeah, so so not Yeah,
so knock cam brought me back, and um wow, I
I just remember waking up and saying to myself, like,
(43:51):
you know, I have to find a way to end
my life, and I don't know how I'm gonna do it,
you know, there's multiple ways I can do it, but
I just remember a suicide being such a strong thought. Um,
and a lot of that came from not wanting to
face the people who loved me and not wanting to
(44:11):
you know, completely unravel my wife's life. You know, my
wife's sacrifice so much to stay with me, like she
went against her loved ones, her family's request to leave me.
So long story short, the recovery process. Chris Mullen, you know,
like Chris Mullen and Mully and Liz, you know, they
(44:35):
made a connection to a guy named Murph, and Murph
connected me to day Top and you know I checked
in and at thirty two years old, I was introduced
to a different way of treatment. It was behavioral modification.
It was a therapeutic community, which means, you know, very aggressive, authoritative.
(44:55):
You know, like no phone calls, if your bed's not made,
if your socks aren't old, if you close on color coordinated.
I was living in a room with eight people. I
got screamed at to put my feet on the floor
in the morning. So a different world. And but you know,
a month and a half into that, Heather has given
birth to Drew, and you know, I got a little
(45:17):
bit of time under my belt, I'm feeling somewhat confident.
I got a community of like eighty guys who I'm
living with, and I'm like, I'm gonna go home and
do this. And I failed, and I relapsed that day,
and thankfully I made it back. And I was one
of the lucky ones because um I stayed in treatment
(45:38):
or some form of treatment for almost eleven months, and
it was almost eleven months before I made it back.
Yeah to my family. But unbelievable story. Side story is
Murf Murph, who Molly introduced me to, who got me
the scholarship at day Top. He changed my life, He
(46:00):
saved my marriage. He talked to my wife every single
night when I was in day Top after I relapse. Now,
Murph was a super fan of Mulley. Two years later,
Mulley's being inducted to the Hall of Fame and I
will be in attendance, and all I care about is
that Murf is gonna be there. And I finally get
(46:21):
to a high five hug kiss, you know, the guy
who saved my life. And Murph dies of a heart
attack and Penn Station. I never meet him. I never
met the man I never met the man that saved
my life. And I was hours away from hugging this
dude and he passed away. You know, the Mullins opened
(46:43):
the door and Murph, he spent countless hours counseling my
wife and helping me without me knowing. Makes me want
to cry. It makes me want to cry. So, you know,
as I tell people in my wellness center, right, like,
get comfortable with monotony, you know, because recovery can be
very monotonous at times. You know, you're gonna listen to
(47:04):
the same stories, You're gonna hear the same voices, but
you're blessed to be present for that monotony. And you know,
for eleven months, I laid this foundation with the help
of so many guys and women, you know, and that
foundation has given me, you know, twelve and a half years.
When did you decide you wanted to tell people about,
(47:26):
you know, these horrible things that have happened in your
life And what was the goal? So didn't have one. Right,
I was driving around repossessing vehicles, you know, with a
childhood friend and I lost my license, right I had
to you know, three d Uise under the influence of
her many times. So now that job is gone and
(47:47):
I'm in a meeting and you know, this guy who
has twenty five years sober says, I got a woman
who's gonna give you the keys to a school gymnasium.
You're gonna teach basketball. So I started teaching. Who wasn't
it therapeutic? It was beautiful. You know, I'd be in
the gym with some kids who could really hoop, and
then I, you know what, the next session is a
(48:07):
you know, a little fifth grade girl with harry legs
who can barely reach the rim, you know what I mean. So,
but it was all a beautiful experience for me, because
I'll tell you this, those parents who dropped their children
off to me first, I will always be indebted and
unbelievably grateful that they gave me that chance. You know
(48:28):
that with you, I did the same thing in l A.
I did that for a couple of years, and uh,
you know, they knew me, their parents knew me. The
kid didn't know me, their parents knew me, and they
trusted me. And but when I watched you coaching these kids,
You're perfect with them. You were so good with them.
What relationships do you have with guys in the league
(48:50):
or college, and do you ever have a desire to
get into basketball in that regard in that capacity. So
while I was teaching basketball, a woman called and she said,
you know, I know you lost your license and I
want you to come to my school to speak. And
she said, I don't have a budget for it. I
can just give you a dunkin Donuts gift card. So
I went on to speak in her class. Word of
(49:11):
mouth went on to a couple of more high schools
and the next thing, you know, I'm speaking, you know,
two hundred times a year. And you know in the
speaking game is it's all word of mouth? Right, If
you don't bring it, and if you're not authentic and
you're not you know, responsible in front of those children,
no superintendent of principle is gonna say, hey, bring him in.
(49:32):
So I'm very proud that I've been able to do
this for almost ten years. It was not planned. You know,
I don't have many relationships. Um, you know I do.
I do have relationships, but you do know I do.
But a lot of it too stems from people circling
back for help, right, and they know that I'm available,
(49:55):
and they know that you know, yeah, totally so. But
Billy Donovan is a special dude. Um, you know you
said that. And Chauncey Billips is an unbelievable man. Uh,
Johnny Lucas at times we cross paths, um, you know.
And oddly a lot of my stuff is football. I
spend more time with football than I do with basketball.
(50:16):
Uh really yeah, so you know, whether it's going into Alabama.
I'm with Alabama multiple times every year with savings. So
a lot of football guys, a lot of you know,
I've been working with Alabama for ten years. I've been
with Florida State and Jimbo than transition to Texas A
and m um you know stoops, stoops? Who's Mark? Yeah?
Who is that Kentucky? He was with jimbo Um at
(50:40):
Florida State. That's when I first met him. So the
football game has been really good to me. I do
a lot of work with the NFL with UH and
I did the Rookie Symposium every year for the NBA.
That's great, Let's say it. It is. It's really powerful
what you're doing. Uh. If you were playing today twenty
one year old Chris Herron in today's NBA, imagine I
want to be afraid of the post. That's right, That's right. Yeah,
(51:04):
I want to be afraid of that. Mean Toronto had
they were starting Kyle Lowry and Fred VanVleet, I mean
you could have never. I love those guys, they're all stars,
but you couldn't have started that backcourt in the eighties
and nineties. I mean straight to the post and you're
just playing out of rotations all night long. Yeah, you
were built for this, right, You're built different game, totally
(51:26):
different game. And uh, you know, I'm a fan and
I always will be. I'm unbelievably grateful for what the
game gave me. Um, I believe you know, the commitment
that it required and the patients has also kind of
transcended into my recovery. You know, that work ethic, you know,
like you talked about in the opening, it's hard. You know,
(51:48):
it requires a lot of due diligence and commitment, and
you know, there were a lot of times I didn't
want to wake up to go to a gym to
shoot at a little orange thing. And there's times I
wake up and I don't want to walk into a
meeting to in my seat, But you know, I claim it.
What's the Heron Project and Heron Willness. So Heron Project
was all about Mulley, right, like I wanted to be.
(52:10):
I wanted to be Chris Mullen. I wanted to make
the phone call he made, and I wanted to make
that phone call and witness somebody's life change, and like
he did for me. And the Heron Project, you know,
I started it ten years ago. Over six million dollars
worth of scholarships over the years, thousands fantastic, Yeah, thousands
(52:33):
and thousands of people have been put into treatment because
of Haron Project. And you know, we support families, um
we provide scholarships and sober living after we give people
sober coaches, recovery coaches. Um. So, just an unbelievable organization
that really stems from Murph and Mulley and Heron Wellness.
(52:53):
You know, at ten years sober, I took a chance.
It was my dream, you know, to start this company
and to be you know, uh, part of the whole process.
And you know, Heron Wellness is located in Massachusetts. Residential
people live there. We have twenty four beds. I like
it small, I like it intimate. I want people to
(53:14):
get as much attention as they deserve. What advice would
you give your younger self a teenager or two listeners
all over the world who might be struggling with addiction
or or with the loved one who is you know,
I think when we're in the middle of that storm,
it's so daunting, it's so far away, you know that
the hope is gone. And even when kind of hope
(53:37):
piques its way back in, and you really ask yourself,
is it worth it? Like and I'm too far gone? Man?
Like you know here I am, I'm thirty two, I'm
shooting heroin, I have track marks on my arms, I'm
smoking meth um, multiple felonies, arrest d you wise, like,
what am I going to get sober for? Sobriety has
(53:58):
tested me and has given me more, you know, pride
and confidence and just just such empathy for other human
beings and you know, and and growth that I never
ever thought that I could attain. And you know that
guy that we talked about, you know, back when we
(54:20):
were eighteen years old, socially awkward and needed all homeboys around.
You know, recovery has replaced them and has provided me
people that you know, has guided me, uh for the
last thirteen years, so please don't lose sight of that.
Please don't ever think it's too late, because I would
have never ever imagined my life could be this good. Chris,
(54:44):
from the bottom of my heart, bro Um, I want
to thank you for joining me sharing your story today.
It means it really means the world to me. Um.
If you ever need anything, please feel free to reach out.
You know you got my number. My door is always open.
I'm wishing you nothing but the best. Bro. We're in
this together, team, gain no doubt, we no doubt. But
(55:05):
I do want to say this, and I mean this
with all my heart. You were a childhood hero of
mine and you know and as you were of many,
but I was one of those kids that fell asleep
to your picture and wanted to dream the life you
will live in. And uh, if it wasn't for you,
I wouldn't have been in the driveway. So I love you,
(55:26):
thank you, and we'll keep in touch. Much love, bro Hey.
Make sure to follow Chris on Twitter at Sea Underscore,
Harron Harron talks at hair and talks at Hair and
Project and at Hair and Wellness. Thanks Bro, Thanks Chris,
no doubt, Thank you, Thanks for being an Inspiration Charges
(55:48):
Shet Sintenis and Charges Celebrity Gang Charge We came along
with from Living Lawless Judge. Charges is created by port
Lay and Control Media is produced by DV Podcasts in
association with I Heart Radio or more podcasts. For my
heart radio, visit I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or
(56:10):
wherever you get your podcasts
Charges. That's created by Poor Delays and Control Media. It's
produced by dB Podcasts in association with I Heart Radio.
This time a former Son's player who you might remember
as t Rex. More video in just a moment, But
this is Rex Chapman's mug shot, and we are learning
a lot more about the Charge Up the Chargeman. I
(00:21):
remember coming out of jail that night and I remember
calling the guy who should it to me and like, listen,
I need more because him is so good. It almost
killed me. You know, I wish people challenged me in
other areas of my life. My wife is less than
a quarter mile away from this scene, and she's about
to find out that her husband is a heroin addict.
(00:45):
You're a walking, fucking miracle man. Welcome to Charges. I'm
your host, Rex Chapman. Today on the show, we have
perhaps one of the best players to have his career
and potential completely ruined by addiction. Compared to a lot
of the guests we'll have on this show, you might
not know him, so let me give you a little background.
(01:07):
Chris got his own Sports Illustrated photo shoot, which in
was about as big a deal as trimming on Twitter
for a week straight I spoke with a number of
Chris's former coaches, teammates, and opponents, including our resident two
time NBA MVP Slash Charges executive co producer Steve Nash,
and he told me that Chris should have played in
(01:27):
the NBA for ten, twelve, fourteen years he played for two.
Come join us today on a crazy and in some
ways cathartic episode of Charges with us Today is Chris Harren,
perhaps one of the best players to have his career
(01:49):
and potential completely ruined by addiction. Chris was the pride
of Fall River, Massachusetts who became a McDonald's All American.
He would land at Boston College and go on and
start at Fresno's a under legendary coach Jerry tart Kanian.
But we will get into why he changed schools later.
He was drafted by the Denver Nuggets in the second
round of the ninety nine NBA Draft thirty third overall,
(02:12):
and then played for his hometown Boston Celtics the following season.
He then head overseas to play basketball in China, Turkey, Italy,
Poland I Ran. He did all of this while battling
a massive drug addiction. A drug addiction so consuming that
he would overdose and need to be brought back from
the dead more than once. You might know of Chris
if you're a true hoops junkie, which if you think
(02:34):
about it, what a term, right, or you may know
him from the incredible documentary on him as part of
ESPNS thirty for thirty series called Unguarded by Jonathan Hawk,
or his memoir Basketball Junkie. Chris is an author, motivational speaker,
and wellness advocate. Chris has founded three organizations that provide
programs and services with the goal of overcoming setbacks and
(02:57):
navigating life's challenges. It's great honor to be here with
Chris today. And Chris, I'm so glad you survived to
talk with me. Bro. No man, I'm honored honestly, you know. Uh,
you know, aside from everything you just talked about. Um,
you know you are one of the reasons why I
picked up a basketball. You know, there's no doubt about that.
(03:17):
So I remember, you know, cutting out sports illustrated pitches
of you, and so it is it's great to be here,
and um, I'm glad we're here in this uh talking
about recovery and so on. That's really cool bro, Thank you. Um. Yeah,
I reached out to a guy yesterday who I spent
time with in the NBA, A coach. Um. Now, he's
(03:40):
not much older than I am, but I reached out
to him yesterday because I told him, I said, weren't
you uh with Chris? At one point he said yes,
And I want to read you what he said. See
if you can guess who it is, I'm sure you can. Wow.
I love Chris, everyone does. Most likable kid I ever coached,
even and back then, very unselfish. Only player who would
(04:02):
actually buy me lunch. I remember doing defensive slides with
him on his recruiting trip in his hotel room, showing
him we could teach him to guard the ball. He
knew he could score, but was concerned he wouldn't be
able to guard. Who is it? Johnny Welch. Johnny Welch,
Johnny Well you know exactly how great is that? Dude? Yeah?
(04:23):
He's the best. He I mean, I want to be
here today. Um. He made me, you know, he brought
me into the lab and created this basketball player. So
you know, without John Welch, I would have never made
it past college. Um. But what people don't know about
our relationship too is he was instrumental into supporting my
(04:45):
recovery as well as introducing me to recovery. So on
so many levels, so impactful. You know, just a great man,
a great mind, a great soul and uh you know,
nothing but cherished beautiful memories of Johnny Welch. That's so
great here, Yes, truly hit son. Riley has been playing
(05:06):
here at Kentucky the last few years as a walk
on so and he just graduated. So I can't believe
that he was just a little guy. It seems like yesterday,
you know, could you please, you know, set the scene
where you're from Fall River in Massachusetts. The city it
seems like it shaped you. And as a kid from Kentucky,
I can kind of understand that. Tell me about fall River,
(05:28):
you know, Fall River was a booman city back in
the twenties and the thirties, textile, a lot of mills um,
but a lot of blue collar, a lot of blue
collar people, hard working. You know, the city in itself
is a tough city. But you know the lineage, the
history of diffy basketball just you know, growing up in
(05:51):
that time. You know the Celtics, you know they were
kind of second back seat to diffy basketball. To me
as a kid, you know, diffy basketball meant everything to me,
you know, especially with no internet and no access. You know,
all I cared about it was Tuesdays and Friday nights
going to watch diffy basketball. So you know, my father
(06:13):
played hoop. My brother was unbelievably successful as a high
school basketball player. Did you guys play together? You and
your brother? He was older by too much, right, yeah? Yeah,
so he You know, I came in his freshman year
of college. So I was a freshman in high schoolhen
he was a freshman in college. You know, I was
blessed with probably more athletic ability. He was blessed with
(06:34):
more heart in a sense, you know, in toughness. Yeah yeah,
I mean, you know he's he but come on, yeah yeah, yeah,
well listen, I was blessed with enough of it accepted. Yeah. Yeah. Um,
you know, he was a tough act to follow, and
playing in front of, as you know, thousands and thousands
(06:55):
of people as a fourteen fifteen year old kind of
shapes you and sometimes negative I understand that. Man. You know,
the town I grew up in sixty thou people, Owensboro, Kentucky,
and four high schools my dad coached. He played, he
played an old a B A but he you know,
I was always Wayne Chapman's son. But he coached at
Apollo High School, and that's all I wanted to do,
(07:19):
was the only thing I wanted to do. I went
to his practices every day. Nothing else mattered. And you know,
as I grew up, you know, started getting better and
better and stuff, but it was always rewarded, you know, positively.
When that's all I knew how to do. I didn't
give a shit about anything else, school, nothing else, you know.
So I wonder, you know how similar that might have
(07:42):
been for you playing for Durfy completely. You know, I
often tell people, especially when I speak to kids, like,
you know, I wish people challenged me in other areas
of my life, you know, like I wish somebody came
up to me and you know, and said, you're really
good at basketball, but you really struggle, you know, being yourself.
And you can play and perform in front of a
(08:03):
lot of people and score a lot of points, but
you really struggle with yourself on a Friday night with
kids that you've known your whole life. So you know,
in my my mission today and all the public speaking
I do and all the kids I'm in front of,
you know, it's about awareness. It's about you know, challenging
our children socially and emotionally and exposing them to different
(08:25):
life skills, coping skills, skills that I never had. And
you know, I'm listening to you talk about you know,
you didn't care about school and it was just scoop,
and internally I kind of cringe, right, because that's that's
the thing. Yeah, I mean, that's one of the things
I'm most embarrassed by, you know, is that lack of
(08:46):
effort that I put in into so many other areas
of my life. Lack of curiosity. That's what gets me,
you know, just I didn't care if somebody did tell
me I was messing up. I remember them telling me
in school sophomore year, and I had no plans on
leaving school early, but they said, rex, you know, this
is a class you're gonna need. And I was like,
(09:06):
I'm not gonna need that. I'm not gonna need that,
and then I left. And then guess what that degree
would have been coming really handy about seven or eight
years ago, right, you know, I couldn't even coach basketball
because I don't have a degree. So you're in high school.
You're dominating though on the court, you know, but off
the court, what were your vices? What were you doing? Drinking? Smoking,
(09:29):
you know, and did that affect your game at all
as a high schooler? You know, I think so drinking
and smoking primarily occasional pills. Right, If I could get
my hands on if some valu yeah, if some parents
had surgery, will get ahold of their Viking ins um,
someone you know had their wisdom teeth pulled, or you know,
(09:50):
one of our friends had a little orthoscopic surgery. So
we weren't afraid of that. From the outside looking in,
I would say a lot of people would not have
projected my struggle because the game of basketball took me
away from it. It was an escape for those two hours,
and you're dominating. You know, you feel superhuman in many ways, right, Yeah,
(10:12):
And not to mention the fact too, like, you know,
a AU was just kind of coming into its own
and it was yet to be taken over by the
sneaker companies. But I was playing you know, seventy eight
Games of Summer, right, So I'm traveling to Vegas to
Tennessee to Florida. So I'm away from the scene. It's
(10:35):
just when I come back to the scene, right, I
come back and I dive right in part of me.
And I don't know if you struggled with that, but
I wanted to be normal, and you know, like I
was envious to the kids who didn't have, you know,
all this pressure, you know, in this ability, and I
just wanted to be normal, right, And you know, it
(10:56):
is kind of like the whole be careful what you
wish for. I dreamt all of my friends from age
eight to grow to be able to play basketball. They
all dreamed for it, and then it happened to me.
You know, I just wanted to get a scholarship somewhere.
What I wasn't prepared for was I was so socially
inept if I wasn't around my good friends when I
(11:18):
came to Kentucky. Part of me coming to Kentucky was
that I got to bring two of my boys from
high school to live in the dorm. That was the deal.
That was the deal, A part of the deal. So
and they did you know they lived downstairs, my twins,
Kevin and Keith Vanderpool. There my boys to this day.
But I almost had no confidence around anyone else. I
(11:39):
got really weirded out with people looking at me, wondering
if they were talking about me, talking shit about me,
or are they loving me up? And and I in
securities of the time. They're lining me up, you know,
they're sizing me up. They're not saying, oh, look at
Chris Harren, What a good guy. You know, I'm thinking
immediately they're talking about me. So um, and that's alcoholism
(12:01):
at its best in a sense, right, is untreated alcoholism.
But um, you know, I too did not have the
deal on the table of bringing my homeboys to Fresnel.
But but they I know they were there, but they
came anyway. We're gonna get to that. But part of
(12:21):
that high school thing. And I didn't win, Chris, I
didn't win in college. We were good, but we didn't
win it. But we won the third region to go
to the state tournament my junior year in high school.
And it might I feel because all my boys got
to do that. They got to go and play in
rupp Arena. I knew I was gonna go and play later,
but it's you know, so that high school thing huge
(12:46):
special especial it's you know, and and unfortunately, right, so
during high school, they were writing a book about you know,
Far of a Dreams and you know in that book
are quite a few of my friends, and you know,
we all struggled, right, we all struggled like whether it
was heroin, cocaine, alcoholism. And you know, I say to
(13:09):
kids all the time, like, you know, that's the scariest
thing about addiction. Nobody knows who has it yet, you know,
nobody knows who's gonna be the one suffering so much
as an adult, you know, because of some of the
decisions we're making today. And you know, to grow up
and walk to school with these kids and go to
elementary and recess and play whoop in their driveways and
(13:29):
you know, go down to parks, and then fast forward
twenty years later, we're all shooting heroin and jam and
coke op on those you know, it's tragic, it is.
Take me to your dorm room at Boston College. You know,
cocaine's a serious step up from weed and booze and
pills um. And that wasn't that long after Lenny Bias
had died, which was a huge deal nationally and especially
(13:51):
in Boston. What was it about that coach that intrigued you?
Because I played against guys with guys who did coke
who and they were a fucking nightmare to guard. And
I assumed if I did that, I would a die
right away or I would love it, and so I
(14:11):
never did it. So I'm really intrigued to know. And
how did it make you feel? Playing as well? It
probably would have had the same exact effect on you
that it did on me, um, because and only people
that really partied on coke can identify with this. But
it was kind of my truth serum. It allowed me
(14:34):
at three thirty in the morning to sit there on
a couch and talk about who I was, my feelings
when I'm struggling with It just opened me up and
it made me unbelievably transparent and vulnerable. Now, you know,
at three o'clock the next afternoon, when I'm just shaking
it off and waking up, I'm like, what did I
(14:56):
talk about? You know what I mean? But at that moment,
you know that social awkwardness that you talked about, you know,
it takes yeah, and it takes that away. It takes
that away, and it kind of it allows you to
kind of spill your guts. Um, that was one of
the attractive things to me. You know, obviously I had
(15:18):
no idea you know how attracted I'd be to it.
You know, I I truly said it, and I meant it,
you know, because of Lenny Bias. Right, I'm saying to myself,
I'll do this one time and I'll never do it again.
And fourteen years later, Um, but it's a tough drug.
My dorm room, you know, eighteen years old, five in
(15:39):
the morning and I'm watching kids carrying their backpacks going
to class, and you know, I was just I couldn't
identify right, and I'm depressed and I'm digging a hole.
And I just remember the Boston College Athletic director, you know,
bringing me into his office and saying, we need to
help you, and I need you to to write down
who your teaches us I can contact them. And I
(16:01):
was like, buddy, I don't even know my teachers. You know, yeah,
I'm with you. And that was like three months in
four months in you know what I mean. I just
I just didn't know him. I wasn't going And you
know I say that laughing because you and I can
identify but also with great embarrassment. After breaking his risk
(16:23):
during a Boston College home game in November of things
started going off and into the rails of cocaine addiction.
Within three months of his injury, Chris failed two more
drug tests for marijuana and cocaine use. He was expelled
from the team and the university. So you get kicked
out at BC. How crushing was that? You know you
(16:43):
live not far away. Yeah, it was crushing. I couldn't
wrapped my head around it, you know what I mean.
I was doing a lot of coke, a lot of party,
and it's embarrassing. Right. So I had just got done
being a feature in Sports Illustrated coming off the McDonald's
All American Game. BC was you know, we had a
top five recruiting class, so there were high expectations and
(17:04):
then it's over and any in hindsight, right, my mother
she's at the time, you know, thirty nine years old
and she's got to find out her son has a
major cocaine addiction, you know. So it's just devastating on
so many levels. I can dive into it a little
bit more today than I did at eighteen. I was
(17:25):
just like, yeah, big mistake. Let's keep it moving. You know,
when you go to Fresno in the middle of nowhere,
friends they move out there with you. Uh do you
ever think, man, I gotta find a way to stay
away or did you think, you know, these are my people,
they'll help keep me safe. Could you even negotiate that
I wouldn't keep them safe? You know what I mean? Like,
(17:45):
that's the thing I remember growing up as a kid,
and I remember, you know, parents say, oh, you gotta
stay away from that kid, you know, And I'm like,
you have no idea they have. Parents are saying the
same thing about me, you know, Like you know, people
tell me, like, you can't hang out with your friends.
Those friends don't shouldn't be hanging out with me, you know.
(18:06):
I mean, let's keep it real, right, So I fight
out to Fresno and I get put in the arms
of Danny Tarkanian and John Welch, And that year of
sitting out was so there was so much relief, right,
no pressure. You were crushing them, bro, I mean crushing
(18:27):
them your body. You know you were. You could tell
you look different if you look at my sophomore year,
that red shirt year to my sophomore year, my body.
Johnny Welch had my body like I was a fighter.
You know, I was ready and he put me in
that position. And you know we played. There was some
great players at Fresno and extremely competitive. Johnny Welsh could play. Oh,
(18:48):
he could play man. Yeah, got after it too, after
you Yeah, and you know he'll listen to this. But
what Johnny Welch won't tell anybody. I think he's for
three on right hooks on me. I ducked them all.
(19:09):
I've I've you got some fight to get your background too,
and I know he does too. He gives no fox man,
I mean on the nicest guy though off the court.
Nicest guy, yeah. The great and future Hall of Famer
Jerry Tart Kanyan May you rest in peace, gave Chris
a second chance to play by bringing him cross country
(19:29):
to Fresno State in Chris made his debut for the Bulldogs,
but after a breakout season under coach Tark, Chris's addiction
caught up to him once again. Chris felt a drug
test during his junior year and was forced to go
to rehab, the first of many trips he would make
over the next several decades. I saw your press conference
(19:51):
I saw your press conference and just started bawling because
I mean I could say you couldn't look you couldn't
look at anybody. The breaking news concerns one of Jerry
Tarkanians star basketball players. There's a news conference about to
get underway at President State, and perhaps some of you
may know. I haven't battled the first one problem for
the past four years. I am his days every one
(20:12):
I sent back in that clips up. It's time for
mental focus. I'll get Hi my letter back in auto
and discussion this feep with my doctor's coach kid clue
that should sep away for the best ball program. I
fress I finis I We'll be back to oh my
(20:33):
best Thank you now. This was June, But imagine this
scenario happening in today's seven news cycle. A top draft
prospect battling addiction coming soon to an NBA team near you.
Today's NBA franchises wouldn't touch Hearon or anyone else with
(20:54):
a ten football, A true testament to just how gifted
he was as a player. To tends to have executives
turning a blind eye or two two holes in character.
For Chris, it was more of a growing chasm ever
eroding before our eyes. What do you remember about your
(21:15):
you know, your pre draft workouts and draft night specifically,
you know, I remember just in complete fear, right like
if it wasn't for Danis. So Dannis still gave me
a little bit of comfort, you know, like he Kentucky Wildcats. Yeah,
no doubt, no doubt. And I remember working out for
the Nuggets and him throw me in his car and
(21:36):
driving me back down to the Pepsi Center, and you know,
we both shared stories about our childhood and what we
had to face and what we went through. And I
felt that if at thirty three Dennis who was going
to take me after our conversation, So that gave me
a little comfort I was sitting that was kind of
your backstop, no doubt. And it was a very guard
(21:59):
dom minute draft, like Baron Davis and Steve Francis and
William Avery and Fontigo coming. There was just a lot
of guards going in the first round. So you know,
I fell and I waited for you know, Daniel, and
and I was fortunate enough to land there. I uh,
it was a party. The streets shut down in four River,
(22:20):
you know, we were escorted in My wife and I
and you know, the party began, the celebration began, and
it was just another mountain to climb, though, you know,
like as exciting as it was, like I saw another
mountain and I was like, fuck, man, I gotta climb
this one too. I watched your your draft footage, and
(22:40):
I was just every pick that went by. Of course,
like every fan, I'm just crushed and crushed and for
your wife, Heather, and and you're a young man who's
already been in rehab, man who's already been and I
can't imagine that. But on the drive down to the party,
you were so excited, so excited in the car and
(23:00):
you got out and immediately you got up in front
of these people and you they are your people, but
you got emotional. You felt like you had something to prove. Still.
It was beautiful and heart wrenching all at the same time.
(23:21):
I thank everyone for coming down here. This has been
We all fought for this for a long time, and
everyone stood behind me throughout this whole thing. And thirty
three number one, it feels the same, and it's has
(23:46):
time to relax and have fun and let's enjoy the
playing dead. You know, so many emotions right, so much
hard work, so much you know, commitment, you know, all
the people who questioned me and my addiction, and like
you said, you know, being in rehab at twenty and
(24:09):
one years old and facing that adversity to finally get there.
But for me, it was a little different, right Like
when I jumped on that plane to go to Fresno,
I had no plans on playing in the n b A.
I had zero plans. I just wanted to be a
good college basketball player, and I wanted to prove myself
at that level. John Welch put that dream in me,
(24:32):
and he made me realize, well, maybe I can. So
it was hard work, It was a lot of dedication,
It was a lot of discipline. But there was a
lot of sadness to it, and there was a lot
of emotion attached to it. So I was so far
away from living in the moment, you know, the way
we lived, the way I lived today, living one day
(24:52):
at a time. I was so far away from that mindset,
and I just wish that I could have cherished those
moments when they they weren't cherishable. Bro, I feel so
much of what you're saying. You know, I reached out
to several people that I know knew you for this,
you know, Rick Pattino, Jason Kidd, Steve Nash, every last
(25:13):
one of them talk about what a good player you were,
what a great guy you are. Your teammates always loved you,
and that speaks volumes. So you're in Denver your rookie year,
and I think you played out there with a couple
of well at least with one guy, Dice. Antonio mcdice,
he was my young guy in in Phoenix, but then
he ends up out there with you guys and Nick
(25:34):
Van Exel. Who else was on that team? And what
was it like playing on that team? Was it? And
what was your Holy shit, I'm in the NBA moment, phenomenal,
phenomenal team. Just men, right, Bryant Stith, Popeye, Jones, Roy Rodgers, Uh, Antonio, Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. Um,
(26:00):
just a lot of Chauncey Billups, Ron Mercer was on
that team, um for a little bit, and just a
lot of as salt of the Earth type dudes. George
McLeod who I spent most of my time with, right,
Big George, I know, Big George, Roy Rogers and mcdice,
great teammate, you know, he was. He was a special guy,
(26:22):
and they were all you know, they embraced me. Antonio
took care of me. You know, I could honestly like,
I love Antonio mcdyce for what he did for me.
Uh dude, one of the sweetest people you'll you'll ever meet, right, No, humble, kind,
very kind, very soft. And you know, I was playing
my NB a moment um, you know, just one of
(26:45):
them and includes Dice. I was coming down the court
and I just threw it and I was like, uh fuck,
like this is going in the third row. And he
just came out of nowhere and was like, I'll take that.
And I was just like, that's the NBA. Welcome to
the NBA. I'm telling you, it wasn't an amazing We
(27:05):
used to because when I was playing in probably that
still had illegal defense. So what we would do, I'd
run a side pick and roll. Dice would come out
and when they would push it down to the baseline,
I would just fly straight to the baseline, running out
of bounds because they couldn't help on the week side,
and Dice would go to the rim and I just
just throw it up and he would catch it anywhere.
(27:28):
I mean imagine being able to do that totally. He
uh see, when I was with them, you got spurts
to that right, Like moments he became just like this
unbelievable turnaround seventeen Sea shooter, right yeah, just amazing automatic yeah,
automatic automatic. So um, you know, but many moments I
(27:51):
remember Dannisti looking down the bench and saying like come
on in, you know, and and entering that game for
the first time. Um, you know, I remember having such fear.
You know, like the guards today they don't experience, you know,
getting put in the post, and you know, being a
six one six two white kid, I'm like Gary Payton
(28:13):
Jason Kidd, like these guys are gonna drag me down
into the block tonight. You know, I would lose sleep
over that. Yeah, you know the same as me. You know,
I played in an era where Clyde Drexler and m
J and Glenn Rice are the two's and I'm just
gonna get posted up all night. I better be really good.
On the other hand, right, it's a completely different game.
I needed like twelve fouls if I was gonna, I
(28:37):
was gonna guard that. Um. But you know that experience
in Denver, was it was beautiful. It really was like
I had my moments, you know, I remember and George McLeod,
he'll remember this. I remember, you know, being at the
Rolex in Miami and you know what I mean. And
(28:58):
that was and that was for Rick Ross made it
pretty right, like the Rolex was grimy and yes dirty,
and I didn't go back with the rest of the guys.
And I just remember coming in at like four thirty
five thirty in the morning and Big George kind of
like grabbing me and saying, like, this isn't how we're
doing it. You talk about that team with such reverence.
(29:20):
It's like a couple of my Phoenix teams, you know,
where I just felt I was playing my best. You
know what breaks my heart is that this is your
rookie year. And that's what I asked Stevie Nash. I said,
how good was Chris? He said he was really good,
and he said, you know who knows. But there was
no reason he shouldn't have banged out ten, twelve, fourteen
years in the NBA, and maybe whatever happened was going
(29:43):
to happen. I just wish that you could have had
a little bit more of that in Denver for another
couple of years to maybe see, if you know, some
of that behavior that you were exhibiting could have become
habit and that growth, right, I had a lot of
growth that year, you know, to be with Chauncey and
watch the Popeye Jones and they were very selfless, right,
(30:06):
I played with very selfless men that year, and they
were older. So I remember getting traded to the Celtics
and I was supposed to be excited and I was hotbroken.
See June comes true thrown up right down the street.
Is uh, It's an amazing things to this day to come.
You know. I dreamed about this a long long time
(30:28):
ago as a little kids. So I can't say enough
about it. You know. I've also been traded more than
once in my career, and let me tell you, it's
hard having to uproot your whole life, family and future.
October seventeen, two thousand, a day that changed Chris's life forever.
On this day, Chris Herron and Bryant's Death were traded
(30:49):
to the Boston Celtics by the Denver Nuggets on Monday
for Robert Pack and Calbert Cheney. I can't even imagine
how conflicted Chris must have felt heyding from a group
of veterans in Denver who had his back to a
Celtics team in search of chemistry. Years before re establishing
a championship pedigree. Chris was nearly twenty five. That trade
(31:12):
back home was the beginning of the end for him
in the league and the start of his road to
a life where he would play only twenty five games
in Celtic Green. He would never make it back to
the NBA. When you get traded to the Celtics, it
kind of falls apart. Tell me about what you were doing,
who you're doing it with, uh, and how that double
life felt? Brutal right? It was, you know, twenty two
(31:36):
hours a day was dedicated to keeping this secret and
the other two was to practice with Rick Pottino, you know,
so you know I was introduced to Oxy's It was,
you know, right right around nine thousands, and it wasn't
in the headlines, you know, the head We were on
the cutting edge. Yeah, we want exactly on the cutting
(31:59):
edge and that and at that time they were calling
it hill billy heroin. That's what they were calling it
back then, hill billy heroin. And it seemed to settle
you know, in the Kentucky West Virginia, Ohio, and then
it skipped and it went up to Maine and then
it worked its way down. But I just as I say,
I'm one of the unfortunate ones that takes a painkiller
(32:21):
and feels phenomenal. You know, I wish I was that
guy who threw up and couldn't take it. Does do
that thing that we talked about earlier. Though I remember
taking it in two days, I knew I was in
love what it did. It made me feel nicer, Like
people would come up to me, chatty, people would come
up to me, and you know, people maybe at one
(32:41):
of my son's baseball games that only wants to talk
about basketball, and all of a sudden I was talking
to him about basketball. I felt like a nicer, better
person and that was pretty alluring to me. And I
can only imagine it had to feel a bit the same,
no doubt, And you know it's I jumped, you know,
(33:03):
from forty milligrams to milligrams quickly, you know, like I
would be out with people and they would know the
extent of what I was taking and they would shake
their head, and I'm like, that's just to get right
you know, like I didn't. I mean, I'm I'm right,
you know, I'm functioning, I'm playing, I'm practicing. Um, did
(33:24):
your body ever give out? Only when I didn't have it? Right,
It's when I didn't have it then that's when that's when, Yeah,
so sick. So if I had it, I was okay.
And that doesn't mean I was okay. I could have
had oxy cotton every day and never felt that sickness
in my career would have nos dived, you know, because
the grind, you know, the time, the energy, the emotion
(33:48):
that's put to that addiction is just ruthless, and you
know all of the other things that come along with it,
the health and some of the things that you go
through when you know, uh, heavily dependent on opiates, but
a lot of lonely nights, man, a lot of a
lot of lonely nights. And I just remember remember going
(34:08):
to bed at night and saying to myself, like, what
is it going to be like when everyone finds out?
You know, what is this? What is this going to
look like? And you feel like a fraud? That felt
big time, big time, and uh, you know, I was
just saying this. There was a time especially during the Celtics, right,
I had access to money, and I would deal with
(34:31):
guys and I would show up and I would buy,
you know, thirty forty OxyS and they would pull me
to the side and say, like Chris, like, you have
a lot of money, man, just buying bok, why do
you keep coming out? And in hindsight, looking back at
that behavior, like sadly, I just wanted that day to
be my last day, you know, so I just kept
(34:53):
coming every day, you know, when I could have dropped
twenty grand on the table and said give me and
paid a lot less for it, right, right, But I
didn't want that many on me because I had the
the ambition and the gold to quit, but I didn't
have the tools. Yeah, it reminds me. I say, I
was just fortunate that I was finished playing. Well, I
(35:13):
really wasn't. I had another three years left on my deal.
But I was hurt and all of that. However, the
second I took oxy Con, I never played another game
in the NBA. I retired shortly thereafter because that's all
I wanted to do. And I remember driving from Phoenix
down to Tucson. You know, I couldn't get him from
the doctors anymore. I'm taking like fifty sixty Viking in
(35:34):
today about ten oxies and just chewing them up, you know.
And so at some point and I got tired of
running around two dealers. So somebody told me, hey, you
can go down to Tucson right out the back of CVS,
you know, meet my boy down there. And so two
or three times, man, I drove from Tucson back to
Phoenix and probably speeding, you know, in a sports car.
(35:57):
And I've got four big bottles see under, you know,
five hundred apiece in there, so two thousand pills. If
I'm pulled over and there for me, they are for me.
But if I'm pulled over, I'm not sharing them. And
so but if I'm pulled over, just they're taking me
to prison. This is with intent to distribute. And that's
(36:18):
the end, because they're not going to believe that I'm
taking all that ship. It's mind boggling to me. How
many times did you get in trouble with the law?
Do you remember? You know, the law started coming when
Heroin came. A former high school basketball star is in
trouble with the law. Chris Heron made a name for
himself at Diffy High School in Fall River before playing
(36:39):
at Fresno State and going tow On Friday, Heron was
arrested in Portsmouth on drug charges. Investigators claimed heroin residue
was found in That's when I really started to struggle
as far as dealing with with Lauren Fossman because of
the overdoses. Right, and and that's another thing, Like I
(37:00):
did most of my heroine and most of my oxy's
in the car, Like I would drive down, get it,
do it, and go back to my home empty handed. Right,
So most of my use was between point A and
point B, right from the dealer's house to my house.
It was all gone. So there was a lot of
(37:20):
you know, multiple times I overdosed um, you know while
in my vehicle, so d uise and so on and
so far started coming pretty regularly. You know. When I
overdosed for the first time, it was in two thousand four,
and you know, I was in a dunkin Donuts drive
through and I took my foot off the brake and boom,
I bumped into the woman in front of me. You know,
(37:42):
when I come through and uh, you know, there's blue
bags everywhere. A hypodermic needle, and I'm like, my life
just changed forever, and everybody who loved me, you know,
Like my wife is less than a quarter mile away
from this scene, and she's about to find out that
her husband is a heroin addict. And you know, the
(38:06):
next day the Boston Herald, the headline was, what a
shame is that your rock bottom? Gosh no, no, no,
I had so many of them. Um, you know, And
that's the thing, right, Like it's every day, you know that,
like every day is low, you know, like there's no
good days. There's no good days when you know, I'm
(38:28):
looking at my children and I'm then going to the
A T M Machine to spend five dollars. Yeah, it's
maddening and it's psychotic, you know. You you said it
so well. I Mean, one moment, all we can think
about is ourselves, and then the next moment, the second
we get in trouble or whatever, we start thinking about
(38:49):
all those people who love us. Isn't that amazing? Yeah? Yeah,
And listen, you know two thousand four people weren't really
overdosing on heroin, right, Like it was so uncommon and
that it almost somewhat flew under the radar. You know,
like a weirdly but you know, I I remember coming
out of jail that night and I remember calling the
(39:11):
guy who who sold it to me and like, listen,
I need more because it was so good it almost
killed me, you know. And that's how sad we are,
you know, that's how sick we get that we wake
up every day to pay to take a chance of Diane.
You know, every day we chased death for that feeling.
You know. So I remember going on the Texas road trip, right,
(39:34):
and I'm like, fuck, like Texas. That means we're going
for like seven days, eight days. That's stress man, right,
So I would just fly him. I would FedEx fly
him down. So when I got to certain hotels, whether
it's in San Antonio or Dallas, the concierge would say,
you know, Mr Herron, you have a package. You know.
(39:55):
That was a full time job. Well, Christmas rear would
continue overseas. This would begin a downward spiral of drug
use and charges, tabulating seven felonies in all. This included
a then thirty three year old Heron being arrested for
alleged heroin possession after police found him slumped over the
(40:16):
steering wheel of his vehicle in June two thousand and eight.
The car was partially on the sidewalk with its engine
running and in gear. Police said, with the amount of
times Chris used in his vehicle, it's blind luck he
didn't hurt anyone. And then he lived to share his story.
I remember you'll like this. I'm playing in Turkey and
(40:37):
Istanbul and I had a guy shipped me out a
bunch and I remember going to the place to pick
it up and I opened up the package and all
the pills are gone, and a guy in customs wrote
me a nice note saying like this is unbelievably disappointing
that this is what y'all life has turned to, Like,
(40:57):
guess some help for your family man, And he took
them all, but I could see all the green oxy
from the eighties still stuck to the newspaper. But the
build up to that was I had an inclination walking
into that package place in Istanbul that someone had gone
through my package. And when they walked out, it was
(41:19):
wrapped in yellow tape and they said, do you want
to claim this? And I was like, I want to
claim that, just in case, just in case, you know. So, yeah,
So the madness that comes with, you know, with that drug,
the desperation, um, you know was the everyday thing. Yeah, Um,
(41:40):
I want to take a moment if you're comfortable talking about,
you know, getting clean. I was in rehab three times,
and I want to tell you just from I've always
been felt very fortunate, especially after going to rehab, that
I never stuck a needle in my arm. You're a walking,
fucking miracle man. You know, it was long odds making
(42:01):
it to the NBA, but what you're doing now, well,
it's life changing, not just for you, but for a
lot of people. Talk to me about your getting clean,
the sobriety how you know, I know everybody's different. You
and I we had to get off of opioids, which
is essentially heroin, right and in your case actual heroin.
So what was your process of getting clean? You know,
(42:24):
towards the end, I was so out of money, right,
like we were living so rough. Do you remember? And
see how you say that right now and you say
it and it just rolls out. I say it myself,
but I also remember there was a time where that
was I was terrified of But what if I have
to say that someday? Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and you know,
(42:44):
like we're talking, you know, not enough money to pay bills,
no lights, no heat, and and we will live in
rough and I had run out of things to sell.
You know, the pawn shops wanted nothing to do with
me anymore. So I was I primarily was become a
vodka drinker. Right. Vodka shuts the noise off, It hits
(43:06):
you quick. And occasionally I would mix heroin in and
you know that last overdose two, you know, wake up
at thirty two, and you know, all I could think
about was killing myself. Like I was like, you know what,
like I can't do this to my kids anymore, you know,
like my poor children. You know, they deserve so much
(43:27):
more than what I'm giving them. And you hit a pole, right,
a pole, and they you were supposedly dead for thirty seconds?
Is that true? Well, just knock can right, the knock can.
So is that what happened? Yeah? Yeah, so so not Yeah,
so knock cam brought me back, and um wow, I
I just remember waking up and saying to myself, like,
(43:51):
you know, I have to find a way to end
my life, and I don't know how I'm gonna do it,
you know, there's multiple ways I can do it, but
I just remember a suicide being such a strong thought. Um,
and a lot of that came from not wanting to
face the people who loved me and not wanting to
(44:11):
you know, completely unravel my wife's life. You know, my
wife's sacrifice so much to stay with me, like she
went against her loved ones, her family's request to leave me.
So long story short, the recovery process. Chris Mullen, you know,
like Chris Mullen and Mully and Liz, you know, they
(44:35):
made a connection to a guy named Murph, and Murph
connected me to day Top and you know I checked
in and at thirty two years old, I was introduced
to a different way of treatment. It was behavioral modification.
It was a therapeutic community, which means, you know, very aggressive, authoritative.
(44:55):
You know, like no phone calls, if your bed's not made,
if your socks aren't old, if you close on color coordinated.
I was living in a room with eight people. I
got screamed at to put my feet on the floor
in the morning. So a different world. And but you know,
a month and a half into that, Heather has given
birth to Drew, and you know, I got a little
(45:17):
bit of time under my belt, I'm feeling somewhat confident.
I got a community of like eighty guys who I'm
living with, and I'm like, I'm gonna go home and
do this. And I failed, and I relapsed that day,
and thankfully I made it back. And I was one
of the lucky ones because um I stayed in treatment
(45:38):
or some form of treatment for almost eleven months, and
it was almost eleven months before I made it back.
Yeah to my family. But unbelievable story. Side story is
Murf Murph, who Molly introduced me to, who got me
the scholarship at day Top. He changed my life, He
(46:00):
saved my marriage. He talked to my wife every single
night when I was in day Top after I relapse. Now,
Murph was a super fan of Mulley. Two years later,
Mulley's being inducted to the Hall of Fame and I
will be in attendance, and all I care about is
that Murf is gonna be there. And I finally get
(46:21):
to a high five hug kiss, you know, the guy
who saved my life. And Murph dies of a heart
attack and Penn Station. I never meet him. I never
met the man I never met the man that saved
my life. And I was hours away from hugging this
dude and he passed away. You know, the Mullins opened
(46:43):
the door and Murph, he spent countless hours counseling my
wife and helping me without me knowing. Makes me want
to cry. It makes me want to cry. So, you know,
as I tell people in my wellness center, right, like,
get comfortable with monotony, you know, because recovery can be
very monotonous at times. You know, you're gonna listen to
(47:04):
the same stories, You're gonna hear the same voices, but
you're blessed to be present for that monotony. And you know,
for eleven months, I laid this foundation with the help
of so many guys and women, you know, and that
foundation has given me, you know, twelve and a half years.
When did you decide you wanted to tell people about,
(47:26):
you know, these horrible things that have happened in your
life And what was the goal? So didn't have one. Right,
I was driving around repossessing vehicles, you know, with a
childhood friend and I lost my license, right I had
to you know, three d Uise under the influence of
her many times. So now that job is gone and
(47:47):
I'm in a meeting and you know, this guy who
has twenty five years sober says, I got a woman
who's gonna give you the keys to a school gymnasium.
You're gonna teach basketball. So I started teaching. Who wasn't
it therapeutic? It was beautiful. You know, I'd be in
the gym with some kids who could really hoop, and
then I, you know what, the next session is a
(48:07):
you know, a little fifth grade girl with harry legs
who can barely reach the rim, you know what I mean. So,
but it was all a beautiful experience for me, because
I'll tell you this, those parents who dropped their children
off to me first, I will always be indebted and
unbelievably grateful that they gave me that chance. You know
(48:28):
that with you, I did the same thing in l A.
I did that for a couple of years, and uh,
you know, they knew me, their parents knew me. The
kid didn't know me, their parents knew me, and they
trusted me. And but when I watched you coaching these kids,
You're perfect with them. You were so good with them.
What relationships do you have with guys in the league
(48:50):
or college, and do you ever have a desire to
get into basketball in that regard in that capacity. So
while I was teaching basketball, a woman called and she said,
you know, I know you lost your license and I
want you to come to my school to speak. And
she said, I don't have a budget for it. I
can just give you a dunkin Donuts gift card. So
I went on to speak in her class. Word of
(49:11):
mouth went on to a couple of more high schools
and the next thing, you know, I'm speaking, you know,
two hundred times a year. And you know in the
speaking game is it's all word of mouth? Right, If
you don't bring it, and if you're not authentic and
you're not you know, responsible in front of those children,
no superintendent of principle is gonna say, hey, bring him in.
(49:32):
So I'm very proud that I've been able to do
this for almost ten years. It was not planned. You know,
I don't have many relationships. Um, you know I do.
I do have relationships, but you do know I do.
But a lot of it too stems from people circling
back for help, right, and they know that I'm available,
(49:55):
and they know that you know, yeah, totally so. But
Billy Donovan is a special dude. Um, you know you
said that. And Chauncey Billips is an unbelievable man. Uh,
Johnny Lucas at times we cross paths, um, you know.
And oddly a lot of my stuff is football. I
spend more time with football than I do with basketball.
(50:16):
Uh really yeah, so you know, whether it's going into Alabama.
I'm with Alabama multiple times every year with savings. So
a lot of football guys, a lot of you know,
I've been working with Alabama for ten years. I've been
with Florida State and Jimbo than transition to Texas A
and m um you know stoops, stoops? Who's Mark? Yeah?
Who is that Kentucky? He was with jimbo Um at
(50:40):
Florida State. That's when I first met him. So the
football game has been really good to me. I do
a lot of work with the NFL with UH and
I did the Rookie Symposium every year for the NBA.
That's great, Let's say it. It is. It's really powerful
what you're doing. Uh. If you were playing today twenty
one year old Chris Herron in today's NBA, imagine I
want to be afraid of the post. That's right, That's right. Yeah,
(51:04):
I want to be afraid of that. Mean Toronto had
they were starting Kyle Lowry and Fred VanVleet, I mean
you could have never. I love those guys, they're all stars,
but you couldn't have started that backcourt in the eighties
and nineties. I mean straight to the post and you're
just playing out of rotations all night long. Yeah, you
were built for this, right, You're built different game, totally
(51:26):
different game. And uh, you know, I'm a fan and
I always will be. I'm unbelievably grateful for what the
game gave me. Um, I believe you know, the commitment
that it required and the patients has also kind of
transcended into my recovery. You know, that work ethic, you know,
like you talked about in the opening, it's hard. You know,
(51:48):
it requires a lot of due diligence and commitment, and
you know, there were a lot of times I didn't
want to wake up to go to a gym to
shoot at a little orange thing. And there's times I
wake up and I don't want to walk into a
meeting to in my seat, But you know, I claim it.
What's the Heron Project and Heron Willness. So Heron Project
was all about Mulley, right, like I wanted to be.
(52:10):
I wanted to be Chris Mullen. I wanted to make
the phone call he made, and I wanted to make
that phone call and witness somebody's life change, and like
he did for me. And the Heron Project, you know,
I started it ten years ago. Over six million dollars
worth of scholarships over the years, thousands fantastic, Yeah, thousands
(52:33):
and thousands of people have been put into treatment because
of Haron Project. And you know, we support families, um
we provide scholarships and sober living after we give people
sober coaches, recovery coaches. Um. So, just an unbelievable organization
that really stems from Murph and Mulley and Heron Wellness.
(52:53):
You know, at ten years sober, I took a chance.
It was my dream, you know, to start this company
and to be you know, uh, part of the whole process.
And you know, Heron Wellness is located in Massachusetts. Residential
people live there. We have twenty four beds. I like
it small, I like it intimate. I want people to
(53:14):
get as much attention as they deserve. What advice would
you give your younger self a teenager or two listeners
all over the world who might be struggling with addiction
or or with the loved one who is you know,
I think when we're in the middle of that storm,
it's so daunting, it's so far away, you know that
the hope is gone. And even when kind of hope
(53:37):
piques its way back in, and you really ask yourself,
is it worth it? Like and I'm too far gone? Man?
Like you know here I am, I'm thirty two, I'm
shooting heroin, I have track marks on my arms, I'm
smoking meth um, multiple felonies, arrest d you wise, like,
what am I going to get sober for? Sobriety has
(53:58):
tested me and has given me more, you know, pride
and confidence and just just such empathy for other human
beings and you know, and and growth that I never
ever thought that I could attain. And you know that
guy that we talked about, you know, back when we
(54:20):
were eighteen years old, socially awkward and needed all homeboys around.
You know, recovery has replaced them and has provided me
people that you know, has guided me, uh for the
last thirteen years, so please don't lose sight of that.
Please don't ever think it's too late, because I would
have never ever imagined my life could be this good. Chris,
(54:44):
from the bottom of my heart, bro Um, I want
to thank you for joining me sharing your story today.
It means it really means the world to me. Um.
If you ever need anything, please feel free to reach out.
You know you got my number. My door is always open.
I'm wishing you nothing but the best. Bro. We're in
this together, team, gain no doubt, we no doubt. But
(55:05):
I do want to say this, and I mean this
with all my heart. You were a childhood hero of
mine and you know and as you were of many,
but I was one of those kids that fell asleep
to your picture and wanted to dream the life you
will live in. And uh, if it wasn't for you,
I wouldn't have been in the driveway. So I love you,
(55:26):
thank you, and we'll keep in touch. Much love, bro Hey.
Make sure to follow Chris on Twitter at Sea Underscore,
Harron Harron talks at hair and talks at Hair and
Project and at Hair and Wellness. Thanks Bro, Thanks Chris,
no doubt, Thank you, Thanks for being an Inspiration Charges
(55:48):
Shet Sintenis and Charges Celebrity Gang Charge We came along
with from Living Lawless Judge. Charges is created by port
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