Vol. 7: Antoine Walker

For the seventh episode of Charges, Rex brings Antoine Walker onto the show to talk about his career and looking back on how he lost his fortunes. Rex and Antoine discuss: Their first time meeting at University of Kentucky & where his confidence comes from (1:29), growing up in Chicago as the oldest of 6 (3:33), Coach Pitino and his time at UK (5:27), Being drafted & his time with the Boston Celtics (6:25), going against Michael Jordan & The Bulls

 (11:26), Free Agency & ending up with the Miami Heat (13:23), Training, Gambling & Reprucussions in Las Vegas (19:00), The 2007 Recession (25:25), being aware of his finances & fitting the bill for loved ones (27:00), filing bankruptcy & trying to get back into the League (33:16), when he knew he was in trouble financially & his lowest moments (37:54). How he takes care of his mental health & what's next (44:00). This episode is not to be missed! 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Charges. That's created by port Lay and Control Media. It's
produced by dB Podcasts in association with I Heart Radio.
This time a former Son's player who you might remember
as t Rex. More video in just a moment, But
this is Rex Chapman's mug Shawn, and we are learning
a lot more about the charge up the charge. First

(00:21):
time you ever gambled? And do you feel like you
ever had an addictive personality? So we have vegas or whatever,
got competitive, end up standing out there by six weeks.
Next thing you know, I'm down a million dollars. People
didn't know my story. People thought are gambled my money
away party. And I did gamble the party, but that
wasn't the reason I lost my fortune. My mom, she

(00:43):
told me she still drives by the house. You know
what I mean. But you know what, that's okay, that's okay.
Welcome to Charges. I'm your host, Rex Chapman. Today on
the show, we talked with a guy who had it
all and then lost at all all of it. Our
guest today has been crowned an NBA champion with the

(01:04):
Miami Heat and an n C double A champion with
My Kentucky Wildcats. While in the League, he became a
three time All Star and the guy who once responded
to the question why do you shoot so many threes
by saying because there are no fours? Employee number eight,
Antoine Walker. Antoine, thanks Bro, thanks for coming on man,

(01:31):
thanks for having on the show. Rex. I've been knowing
you for a long time. Uh, the first time I
remember seeing you. And I don't know if you remember this, Antoine,
but myself, Kenny Walker, and Jamal Mashburn, we're all back
playing in the summer in Lexington and you came in
and you were really highly regarded, but we had never

(01:52):
seen you before. We didn't know anything about you, and
we're all playing in the NBA by now, and but
we were over there to hoop at Memorial Colisey and
you walked in the gym and uh, you know, because
you had kind of been compared to Jamal Mashburn at
the time, and we were kind of checking you out,
and you walked over to where we were, but we

(02:12):
were talking about Glenn Robinson, big Dog. Glenn Robinson had
just declared for the draft, and you walked up to
us and you're seventeen and fresh out of high school
and you heard that. We were talking about big Dog
leaving school and you said, Glenn Robinson left. He going
to the NBA, and we said yeah, and you just

(02:34):
real matter of fact, he said, oh, so player of
the Year is wide open. You hadn't even played a
college game. You hadn't played a second. We hadn't even
played with you in the pickup game yet. I mean,
where does that confidence come from? Man? Man? You there

(02:54):
was the days when Um, I was a skinny little kid,
very cocky in the south side of the Cargo, and
it just came natural. Man. That was like one of
my biggest things. I think that helped me actually get
to the NBA. But I was just a very confident individual.
But why it just that's the way I was. I
come from a trash talking you know, south side Kiss

(03:16):
where I grew up against the guys I played against,
and it was just so much trash talking. So that's
how we motivated each other. It was just a certain
confidence in order that I had about myself when I
came in there, didn't know nothing, but um I got
humble real quickly, you know. But it definitely was. I
was definitely a very confident individual. Tell me about your childhood.
You're the oldest of six raised by a single mom,

(03:38):
you know, tell me about that experience. Yeah, just like
you said, I'm the oldest of six raised by you know,
my mom. Um fox boys, two girls had to grow fast.
My mother had me at the very young age, so
I had to assume the responsibility of helping out a
ton um. Really raised by my grandmother who was very
hard on me. Just been there in UM focused on school.

(04:02):
And people don't understand my upbringing is a little bit different.
I'm probably one of the few kids that was in
the inner city that actually went to UM Catholic private school. UM. Yeah,
and that and and actually elementary and in high school.
How did that happen? I don't know. Through the grades
of God. My mom, for some of my reason, she
felt like the Chicago public school system was not very good.

(04:26):
I really could not afford to go to Catholic private school. UM.
In the elementary school, she figured it out and bit
the bullet and got me through it. And then in
high school. UM, it was one of the situations where
I got finial ad scholarship kind of thing. Yeah. But
a funny story is that I graduated and everything, but
obviously I got my transcripts, but I owed the school

(04:48):
like seven eight grand when I graduated, so I actually
didn't get my physical diploma. So I went pro, came
back and wrote in my check. Yeah. So yeah, Mom
was very appreciatives, uh, to my mom and and kind
of sheltering me and not making me go to public
school where it's more ganging, drug related so it's very

(05:09):
difficult to get through. And she allowed me to be
a kid and to play sports at a very very
high level and and that probably saved me and gave
me an opportunity to make it to the league. So
always very appreciative of that. And I know I jumped
the story around, but the rest is history. That's the
growing up in Chicago for me that led me to Kentucky.
I talked to Rick about you recently, coach p and

(05:30):
he he told a story. He said. We asked him
if any players ever really got to him, you know, uh,
during practices or whatever. He said, no, nobody really. He said, Antoine. Antoine,
he said, one time, Uh, Antoine. He said, he came
over to me during practice and we had a really
good team, really deep team, and he said, Antoine came

(05:52):
over to me and said, coach, you better take him
off of me, because I'm gonna ruin his confidence. He said.
It just made him start laughing, you know, and Rick
is pretty serious during practice, right, Oh, no question, no
question about it's going to three second remating. All right.

(06:25):
So you win the title and then you enter the draft. Uh,
just after your sophomore year draft, You're drafted by the
legendary Boston Celtics. What did that day mean to you?
It meant everything, um, and it's kind of weird. Through
my draft process, I worked out from the second pick
to the level pick, and these are some self workouts,

(06:47):
you know, um, things I've never done before. And the
Celtics was my easiest workout. It was crazy because I
came in and I probably know I was other workouts
for two and a half hours, um, you know, doing
all these drills and doing all the stuff, and I
going to the Celtics. I'm on the court probably thirty
forty minutes. But the my meeting was at this time,

(07:08):
mL car was the head coach and gim but the
assistant coach was Dennis Johnson, Casey Jones. You had Maxwell,
Tommy Heights, and Joe Joe White, Larry Bird was still
a part of the thing. Read all back was around.
I mean, this is the people that were in my
my meeting. So I was overwhelmed, you know, growing up
being a huge basketball so I was overwhelmed. So I

(07:28):
didn't really know that they really liked me like that.
I didn't know how to take that because just the
length of time that I was there and there a draft, Um,
they moved up to six because they didn't feel like
I was gonna make it. Um, I kind of gotta guarantee.
My agent kind of was like, you're not going past
New Jersey at eight, and they moved up and took me,

(07:49):
and I couldn't been more UM prouder or excited about
going to a story franchise UM like the Boston Celtis.
And it was perfect for me because they were in
the rebuildings stage so I can be a part of
the rebirth in the gaming opportunity to play a ton
of minutes and be a part of some special So
I couldn't ask for a better situation, UM, coming out

(08:10):
of school and it just worked out perfectly for me.
UM couldn't couldn't write the storybook, No, no better than that.
But being a part of that organization UM is second
and none. I still to this day consider the Boston
my second home. I mean to get drafted, their play
eight years of my career there, um, so I still
considered at that my second home. Yeah, I remember, you know,

(08:31):
of course I was in Phoenix when you came out,
So I was playing against you guys, and you guys
were you were. You were terrible right there at the
at the beginning, and we had a good team, you know,
out in Phoenix. But tell me about those years in Boston.
What were some of the highs and lows that stand
out for you? It wasn't easy in the beginning, as
you said. Uh, and even after Paul was drafted, what
were those years like Paul Pierce? Uh, they were tough

(08:54):
because the expectations in UM in Boston are a little
different UM than in some places. UM to sports town.
People that are very engaged into the team and everything
that you have going on. So it was great for
me as far as basketball because it forced me to
work and want to win and learn how to win.
The best thing that happened to me was coach coming.

(09:14):
I think after the first year Rick made the All
Star team. Yeah, coach Patino coming over and making the
All Star team. Want them had a lot of success. Obviously,
we didn't have a ton of team success. Um, coach
got a little impatient and kind of ran through our
roster and didn't really give guys time to develop. We
traded Chauncey Bill. It's not the fourth and one game. Yeah,

(09:34):
so we didn't really get a chance to develop. But um,
the time of Boston was great because we were able
to make a run, get back to being a playoff team,
and then we made it, made a legitimate run to
the Eastern Conference finals. Didn't end the way I wanted to. Um,
you're a guy that you play with. I don't know
if you coach you or you played with you. It
was a both. Danny ain't I played against Danny and

(09:56):
then he coached me. Yeah yeah, okay, yeah I figured that. Um.
But yeah, Danny came in and which was fine. He
came in with a different agenda. You know how this
is Rex and you you've been in the front office
of teams, and I wasn't his guy. Um, I wasn't
a guy that he felt like he could continue to
build around. So I was a little heartbroken to get
traded because I felt like we were right at that

(10:17):
time in the Eastern Conference. We were one or two
best teams in the Eastern Conference, probably missing a traditional
point guard to kind of get us over the hump.
But um, he decided to go a different direction and
they did that, and I actually end up coming back
and being a part of another good team that we
got upset in the first round of the playoffs against Indiana.
I think Reggie Miller's last year, thinking two thousand and five,

(10:40):
I think it was Danny, by the way, Danny Angel
loved really loves you. He I talked to him about Danny.
Danny said, Antoine was a great player. He said, he
got on the wrong side of one of your favorite coaches,
Dick Harder. Dick Harder coached me when I was in
Charlotte and Rest in Peace coach Harder. But I couldn't
stand the Harder. I was a young player, none of

(11:01):
none of us could stand him. But it just so
you know, that's what he said. I also want to
read you something that Rick said, uh, because I I
wanted to know from Rick what his opinion of you
was as a player. And he said, Antoine Wow. Extremely
talented and really knew the game. People would be surprised
with his basketball acumen. Highly competitive and loved the game.

(11:26):
Also asked him about the game opener we beat defending
champ Chicago and Jordan was yelling down the hall at
him about him doing the shimmy dance. You remember that,
what kind of Celtic team is this? Why did you
have to look at it and say it's the youngest
team in the last ten years. They only averaged two

(11:48):
point three years of experience. This steam Dick will get
better as the season goes on, and he'll be with
all of that, we still have Michael Jordan's two on
to Randy Brown controlling and the Walker and courses the
turner over four and three rolls night my party, Walker
to the basket and the turnover had a three point opportunity,

(12:13):
and Rick Portino Celtics and leading seventy nine sixty seven.
Antoine Walker with twenty nine points is the game's high score.
He has ten more that Michael Georgian does. It just
me my first game and people, you mean, you gotta
understand from Chicago. So the first three championships, I was
a fan, right like I'm like a huge fan. Michael retires,

(12:35):
comes back, I come in. I play against the next
three championship teams. I mean we went one knee eleven.
So we opened up in ninety six against uh uh
ninety a. Sorry against the Bulls got him the first game.
Scottie sitting out for the contract situation. Scotty's sitting out.

(12:56):
We catch Michael. I think I had like thirty had
a huge night opening. I'm shamming. I'm dancing everywhere. How
you hear that hour, I'm gonna stop all that dance.
I'm gonna stop all that dance. I'm gonna stop all
that dance. That's how you hear Michael telling me that Louibho.
We don't never beat him again. But I went one
eleven and three years against Michael. Uma was incredible. Incredible, man, incredible.

(13:20):
That's so great. From six to two thousand and three,
Antoine Walker was a bona fide star for Boston. He
made the All Star team in two thousand two and
two thousand three. The Celtics had made the Eastern Conference
finals in two thousand two, but in two thousand three

(13:41):
they barely made the playoffs and were swept in round one.
During the summer of two thousand three, Boston dealt Antoine
to Dallas. The next offseason, he was traded to Atlanta.
Midway through the OH four oh five season. Boston realized
it was time to bring Antoine home for the playoff run.
It turned out to be the right decision. The Celtics

(14:01):
got hot and earned the three seed in the East,
but we're upset by a Pacers team featuring run Artest,
Stephen Jackson, Jermaine O'Neill, and Reggie Miller. Antoine was up
for free agency that summer, and his services were about
to be far from free. Free agency market came. Danny

(14:22):
wasn't willing to pay what I wanted on the market.
We negotiated, went back and forth for a long time,
and nothing could happen. And then the Miami Heat situation came.
So when I get the call from Pat and he's
telling me, you know, he couldn't the money wasn't gonna
be while I wanted to be in kind of breaks
down the situation to me. Uh, he said, if you
can get Boston to do a sign and trade, take

(14:43):
some money back. And you gotta remember the Miami Heat
were coming off the Eastern Conference Championship against the Detroit Pistons.
They had just it was the first year with shack Um,
it was gonna be the second year with Shock, and
they were championship trying to get to the championship. So
I'm like, man, I would love to have this opportunit
because I started looking at the roster, I'm like, I've
never been in a championship contender. I've never played with

(15:06):
a guy like Shock and Alonzo Morning and d Wade,
so this could be a great opportunity for me. Danny
did not want to take any money back with you,
was surprising. So I called an owner. I called Wick,
I called Gross Back and I'll said, listen, I've done
a lot for this organization. Um, you know you guys
do not want me. You're gonna go in a different direction,

(15:26):
you know, Can you guys do a sign and trade
and allow me to go continue my career. And they
figured it out and that's how thirteen players got involved.
So it got to be a lot of mumble jumble
guys making eight hundred, nine hundred thousands desided to be
a lot of So that's how the trade got so large.
Because Boss, they really did not want to take any
money back. You know, Lord behold, they get it done.

(15:47):
Now we get another roadblock. Shack was up, so Shot
could have took He was grandfather then, so Shot could
have took his bird rights three for ninety and at
that time, thirty millions a year was heard of in
the NBA. Besides what Michael didn't so call Shock and
obviously you know I know Shock. We're not best friends, um,

(16:09):
And I said, hey, big fellow, I want to come
down and play with you and help you get this championship.
You know, he had this thing with Kobe going on
at the time that he wanted to get one by himself,
and and he was like, look, Pat was like getting
to take five years for a hundred and we can
work it out. Shock did it, Um, Shock took the

(16:31):
five years hunted and you can look at the paperwork.
I signed it like a six year, fifty two million
dollar deal. I deigned a six year deal to make
it work. Then, you know, six year deals were unheard
of at that time. So I ended up taking sign
a six year deal with them and and all that,
and then we hit another roadblock. We get to the
physical they cleared me. Then they come back and said, well,
you got some author rities you may not be able

(16:52):
to fill six years. So now the last two years.
They don't want to guarantee the last two years. And
we're in a twelfth hour, like I got like six
hours to make a decision or the dealers tore up.
Everything goes back and it was August, and you know,
you get thirty days into a free agency, like I'm like, yo,
so I just signed the deal. Pap you know, made

(17:15):
some promises that hey, we went it all, will figure
this thing out, making a great owner, and we went
on with the deal, but everything went of courting the playing.
I mean, it was unbelievable, and you know I talked
about the team Kamarati with the Wildcasts, but for the
what the heat was unbelievable. We had to stay fifteen strong,
and you know this rex be in the league. It's
very hard to find six seven guys out to dinner.

(17:37):
But we had that type of team. We were so close.
We hung together, we partied together, and I always tell
people about my time Miami. I never partied and played
basketball like this in my life. But I was sold
because we were talking about win the championship. It was
something I never did. He sold me on being a
six man of the year you do some other things.
So the first twenty games, I came off the bench

(17:59):
and we were tenanten Shock missed the first few games
with injury, and Pat just I wouldn't say panicked, but
he came down. He felt like he had to come down.
He fired stand. In my first meeting with Pat, he
was like, you're starting. He was like, you're starting at
the three. He said, you are best passer. You're gonna
put you throw in the post. He said, I'm gonna

(18:19):
get you out early. And you know, with the second
unit to be your time. But this first unit, I
want you to spot up, get the ball in the
big fella and play off. D wait in shock, but
I played my money and you know how rous is.
He's like, and that's how it's gonna go. If you're dud,
don't want right, this is getting start out. Are you

(18:39):
gonna be the foul Terry puts up? They look when
the first championship in franchise history, Well, you know what

(19:01):
happens next. You know how we eventually you know do
this on charges. I shared my story about after my career,
you know, addiction to painkillers, alcohol, gambling. Uh threw me
down in a downward spiral, you know, twine Uh, and
I lost everything as well. Just a little history to
my story. A lot of people think, you know, at

(19:21):
that time, I had a gambling situation that took place
in Vegas and you know this rext one time. So
I used to train in Vegas. At this point, I
kind of transition. They should train in Chicago. I transitioned
from Tim Grover and I suhould go out to Vegas because, um,
they just have a training facility. I used to like
the on court stuff. So I would stay out there
probably like five weeks. Usually stay with a bunch of

(19:42):
guys Kevin Garner, t lou Chauncey Billups. This is kind
of their training facility where they used to train that.
So I used to go out there. Should be like
thirty or forty pro So we work out twice a
day like any other time. But at night we're in Vegas.
So we're in Vegas or whatever. We'll go to the casino.
All of us go to the casino, hang out and
do that. First time you ever gambled and do you

(20:04):
feel like you ever had an addictive personality. No, because
I really didn't pick it up. I was like, ut
forty minute, I like to hit and run. I wasn't
a guy that sit there at for hours. Yeah. I
was just like just like you did on the court. Yeah.
I never was a guy that like sit there for six, seven,

(20:26):
eight nine hours and just play. Um. So I would
just say I was more like, let me just hit
it run, hit and run. And then I didn't really
gamble heavy, um until I was like in Vegas. Vegas
was my thing. Um, I would say as addictive, yeah,
because you know I'm competitive, So you know what I mean.
And um, I don't know if you did this, but

(20:49):
you know, once I filed bankruptcy, so my stuff went deep.
I looked at they went through and found so I
was I won four million and lost four million. So
I don't know how you mathematically create that, because you know,
you know how it is. You can you know what
I mean. I still have tax issues from my stuff.
I'm telling you listen, Vegas All Star Weekend next, I

(21:12):
want eight hundred thousand. I didn't lose a bet All
Star Weekend in Vegas in two thousand seven, but then
the following year I come back and lose that million. Yeah,
so I would, of course I would say it played
a part, but it's kind of hard to you know,
it's just different time ins and how it goes. But
it was actually crazy to get those numbers when they

(21:35):
did the audience and they had to go through the
books because you know, Vegas obviously no Vegas got your
play down today. Yeah to the PENNI yeah to the penny.
When you're an active or retired world famous athlete with
millions of dollars in the bank in a city such
as Las Vegas, the world and blackjack table can be
your buffet. Problem is, and I know from experience the

(21:58):
house always wins. That's why these casinos are willing to
give out six figure markers a k A. I O
used too high rollers because they damn well, no, you
will owe them in the end. So this particular summer
was a bad summer. I end up got competitive, end

(22:18):
up staying out that five six weeks. Next thing, you know,
I'm down a million dollars. When you say you got competitive,
you're saying you started chasing it. You started chasing the law.
So you know, yeah, look look down a hunt down
a hunter, go get another market for a hunter. You know,
I'm a big player of season, so my credit lines
a half a million and I probably can get up
to seven fifty. So I'm playing every day whatever, and

(22:39):
you know, by the time i leave for the trip,
all a million dollars. I'm pissed at myself and I'm like,
you know what, I'm done. I'm done with the markets.
I'm gonna figure this out. I'm gonna pay them back
that money. And end up bumping into a guy out
there that I've been knowing, and he was like, listening
to one, you probably can get off the books for
six hundred thousand, you know, say yourself full hunted, but
you're gonna have to give your credit line and all

(23:01):
that stuff. So I went to the casino said, listen,
I'm looking for a payment plan. I'm trying to, you know,
going back out of this. And the casino was fine
um at that time, but they tried to handcuff me.
They wanted me to pay a hunter grand of mine
and I'm like, I'm not gonna do that. So it
just got a little hand. So we get into negotiations.
Were just gonna let the court system figure it out,
and the whole thing. So in the process I tell

(23:24):
that story to say, in the process of me dealing
with that one situation in Vegas, you know, at the
forty five days legally they can go and it's your warrant.
And at this time I'm playing in the Centurion Classic,
which is hosted by Seasons. This is the termament that
everybody got to see Charles Barker's horrible swing. Right. Yeah,

(23:47):
So this is my fourth fifth year. I'm planning it.
So I go out there that you particular year and
get off the plane. I get a phone call from
my mom and she's like, you all over the news.
You old Vegas, this money. They got a war on
for your arrest. I said, well, I'm in Nevada, saying,
ain't nobody here. Nobody's bothered me in. Nobody came up
to me, No police came up to me. Called my lawyer,

(24:09):
figured out what was going on. So my lawyer tells me, hey, listen,
you got any money to make a payment. I'm like, yeah,
I got some money making payment. He was like, look,
enjoy your trip, um, but when you leave there, you
leave Tahoe, fly out of Vegas, and we're gonna make
a payment, and then we get this thing squad away.
I'm like, all right, no problem. So I took the
public embarrassment for two days and people looking at me

(24:29):
crazy and like they thought I was aggressive. And then
my second day at night, I'm at the bar, so
I can't gamble. So now I'm just in party mode,
golf party mode, and the police come up to me
and was like, hey, look, we gotta take you in.
We gotta warrant for your arrest. Like what I say,
We're gonna deal with that, and I'm trying to figure
it out. But it's like three in the morning and

(24:50):
I'm probably like ten vodkas in and I'm like okay.
So I go to the jail and the police officers
department was great. They didn't arrest me. There's like, listen,
we know us late. Get in touch with your people
in the morning. You know you gotta make something happen
and we're gonna have to rest you. So we figured
this whole thing out and end up making the payment
there on the spot. So get him a hundred and

(25:11):
thirty five thousand, had it wired over to them. They
let me out, so never did any jail time, and
those are just a few hours there waiting to get
this money get over to him take care of that situation.
But in the process of me going through that, the
real estate market had crashed. People that know and that
we're in that fielding two thousand seven, eight nine, we

(25:31):
went through a recession. But part of the biggest part
of my portfolio was in real estate pretty much like
six of my money was in real estate on a
hundred and fifty properties in the city of Chicago. I
was welden out and commercial rehab rental, you name it.
I was involved. UM. I had a business partner that

(25:52):
was running it on a day day basis. UM end
up having his own legal troubles and never told me
and I did what know some of us athletes do
sometime we trust the wrong people. Though he hasn't played
an NBA game since two thousand eight, Walker is still
spending plenty of time around courts. Lenders have filed foreclosure

(26:13):
actions against at least fourteen of his investment properties, which
include houses, condos, and apartment complexes. He entrusted a man
named Fred Billings to run his portfolio of properties under
billing stewardship. Mortgages were not paid. Buildings were not repaired,
and many became uninhabitable. Billings is out on bond after

(26:36):
being arrested for running a mortgage scam. He faces felony
charges of fraud, forgery, and theft. Walker already owes the
city of Chicago nearly a million dollars in court ordered
fines for running his buildings into the ground. How much

(26:56):
of your finances were you aware of? Because I knew
I had money, but other people were handling it. How
involved were you? I was involved enough where I knew
where I was at financially. When was the first time
you felt rich? Probably when I was ninety nine when
I signed my max still, but I didn't have any
money before that, not to they now, because I knew

(27:19):
I had seventy one million dollars I was gonna make
over the next five six years. But that was probably
the first time. The only reason I say that, I
think that just a little small education to what And
that's a great question that you asked me. When I
came in the league, I was a six pick um.
I signed a three year, five point five million dollar contract.
First year I made one six, second year one eight,

(27:41):
the third year two point one. People don't understand after
taxes living in Boston, you do, but most people don't understand.
I bought my mom and half a million dollar home.
I bought me a condo for like two fifty three
hundred thousand. You gotta furnish it, a couple of cars.
I'm the old this, I'm taking care of things. So

(28:01):
my first year, technically I'm in debt. Like the first
thing that that shocked me was taxes. I'm with you.
I had no financial intelligence or background at all, so
it just the process for me, and it took a
while for me to get a hang of it. And
the first couple of years were rocky because obviously I
wasn't making that much and I want to do so

(28:21):
much for family and friends and and take everybody on
this journey, this ride be in the league, and you know,
and fortunate enough, you know, my third year, I was
able to sign a max contract and able to do
some of the things I wanted to do, build my
mom my home from the ground up, and just a
lot of things that I had promised that I wanted
to do once I was able to make it to

(28:41):
the league. So those things were there, and I'll be
the first I live a very expensive lifestyle, very materialistic.
I used to have at points eight nine cars at
one time. UM, a lot of jury. I was a
watch guy. Um, I was really into watches at that time.
When I came into league read and you know that
we had little dress codes and you know what I mean,

(29:03):
So we have to put clothes on. So we talked
about so you know, yeah, so, um, I'm in my
first year in Boston. We had to wear suits on
the plane. We can't we have to wear a tie,
but you have to have a suit on on. So
I ended up spending a ton of money on clothes
with different clothes designers, and so I had some fetishes
on my own. Besides, my family had two kids. I

(29:24):
was not married, so obviously that was automatic child support,
so you got that. And then I had an entourage.
You know, I would travel with seven eight guys, but
not guys that I picked up out the street. These
are guys that were in the ground with me every day,
that that I grew up with, and and I took
them on this ride with me. And you're basically you're
footing the bill though, right, you're footing most of the Yeah, yeah,

(29:46):
taking care of them and helping them out and in
different situations. So I had a pretty you know, expensive
group that you know that I was doing. Explain, explained, Antoine,
if you wouldn't mind explained to listeners. You know what
it's like being a multi millionaire and a professional athlete
who and you're an all star, you know, at the

(30:06):
height of your NBA popularity. What it's Can you explain
to people what that's like? Did you ever physically see
the money you had a mass in the bank or
did it feel kind of like funny money to you? Well?
You you get anything you wanted you basically, and that's
the one thing that I tell you. You set your
lifestyle up. What's that like? Going from having nothing? You know,

(30:26):
you're at Kentucky, you know, you're a kid from Chicago,
to overnight literally overnight having everything. What is that like?
I know a little bit, But what's it like? What
was it like for you? For me, it was the
best thing that could have ever happened. I mean, and
people don't understand it until you actually understand what financial

(30:47):
situation you're going through. To see my mom struggling, to
see me not be able to you know, pay you
to get my diploma. Uh, to see my mom on
on welfare and and you you see those things. We
move six seven times, just all those things and then
to finally make it and to put stability there. Always
tell them the biggest thing is my little presdom. Now

(31:10):
everybody has their own room. You don't have to share bedrooms.
Everybody got their own bed you know, you get a
house for six bedrooms. Now, Um, it's different. I mean
it's a different feeling and it makes you feel special
as a player. Um, it's something that you dream about
to be able to take care of your family, and
you roll with it. You don't think about the end.

(31:31):
All you can think about is living in that moment
and now. And you we created and build these lifestyles
that we think that will never end. And that's the
way I wrote. And in the process of doing that,
obviously I was doing stocks and bonds and have my
financial guy doing that. But I got seven years in
I wanted to do something else. The real estate markets

(31:51):
were really good at the time, so for four years
I was heavily involved making good money in the real
estate market, trying to establish myself as a businessman off
the court and trusted in someone else and we all
as athletes or sometimes does this and trusting people that
we shouldn't have and no nobody to blame for that
but myself, but trust someone. He ended up going through

(32:14):
some personal problems of his own and end up actually
doing real jail time at the time that I was
going through my process. So in the process of me
trying to figure out what's going on with my money
and what finance position I'm gonna be in, the person
who had the answers to that was on his way
to jail and actually did five years in the rect

(32:34):
The one thing that bothered me the most about my
story was that, um people never ever give you an
opportunity to explain. So when the vegan situation hit national
TV and then on the flip side of the hand, ah,
you have a financial troubles, they equate that immediately to gambling.
I'm not saying that didn't like the gambling. I wasn't

(32:55):
an aggressive gambler, but it never put me in the
financial strength. And I told a story earlier while I
was telling you about that one time. That was the
one time where I got out of control for me,
where I got really competitive. Any other time it would
be one of those situations, not saying it's peanuts, it
will be a twenty or thirty thousand dollar loss. So
that was for me that that wasn't the reason for

(33:15):
me filing bankrupts. So when I went through this whole
bankruptcy process, and obviously is my first time going through it,
and I looked at it and I'm like, Okay, I
got the biggest firm I could find in Florida at
this time. On my Florida residents, If anybody know anything
about bankruptcy, Florida is the best place to file bankruptcy
um or it's one of the best places. I wouldn't
say it's the best place. And we just went through everything,

(33:38):
and at this time, and you asked me this question,
I thought I was gonna play for four or five
more years. I really thought. And when I made that
decision to file bankruptcy and take Chapter seven bankruptcy, which
was gonna get me debt free, I decided to. I said,
lest you know what, I can go debt free. So
I had about with assets and liquid cash, I probably

(33:59):
was sitting on about twenty million dollars, but I owe
twenty million, maybe a little bit over that, and I
was like, you know what. They gave me a couple
of different options, and they was like, look, if you're
go and play and you think you can play four
or five years, you should go debt free. And then
if you make you another four or five million, you know.
I think the league minimum at that time had been

(34:20):
pushed up to Lisa mill So I was like, at
Warrist case scenario, I'll be playing for the league minimum,
and um, I chased it. Man, I worked my butt off,
and it's a funny story. So I called coach Patino.
I said, Coach, I need to get a shape. So
I've been sitting around um down and he told me

(34:43):
to come to Louisville. So nas had a place down there,
or he got me apartment. I think he got me
an apartment and left me one of his cars. He's like,
you don't even gotta drive to bring one of your cars.
So he left me a car and for six months
I stayed in Louisville. I didn't much. I stayed in Louisville,
lost thirty pounds. I was so happy coach took a

(35:05):
personal approach um and stayed there with me, work me
out majority of the time. Um, he was going through
something with his situation with his wife and you know,
the infidelity that he had going on. So we were
you know, I was going through my things. So we
really bonded and got to the best shape that I
can get into. At this time, I'm I think I'm

(35:25):
like thirty one thirty two. I knocked off thirty pounds. Um.
So I went to Charlotte. Obviously you've heard the stories
of me and Michael having a relationship and everything. Um.
Larry Brown was the head coach up there. Nazi was
on the team and it was the summertime workout, like September,
guys are getting ready for camp. He was like, man,
just come up here, play with us for two weeks,

(35:47):
trained with us. So I stayed up there two weeks,
playing hard. Larry Brown's there every day. He's he's actually
coaching the pickup games, you know, exactly, like you know
what I mean, Yeah, you know, it's like coaching the
pickup games. Anyway, I think I played great. So all
I want at this time, Rex, all I'm looking for
is an opportunity. Let me go to training camp. Let

(36:08):
me playing three or four preseason games. Let me show
people I'm in shape. Let me just you know, get
out there. That day came called Michael, called Larry. Michael
tell him that Larry wanted to go with Darius Mouse
was down there. He wanted to go with the younger
Darius Mouse. And that crushed me. That like took the
zap out of me. Like it crushed me. Um that

(36:29):
I and I couldn't understand why I couldn't get into
somebody's training camp, that I couldn't even get an invite
to be one of the twenty guys even if I
got cut you know a weekend. I just it was
a black cloud that had been tanked. It was. It
was a situation where I felt like, um, people didn't

(36:51):
know my story. People thought I was you know, I
gambled my money away party and at their gamba of
their party. But that wasn't the reason I lost my fortunes.
And besides acting me and really figuring it out, they
went with that and they created a black cloud over
my head. That's what I think. Do I know that

(37:12):
for sure? Obviously No, I'm not behind in these front
office and closed doors. And it came up that it
was over with. I was like, you know what, twine
is over I'm not going to get a call up.
Nothing's gonna happen for me basketball wise. It's time to
try to figure this thing out and do something else.
I wasn't committed to stand in the protic shape that
was going to be needed to play at the professional level,

(37:35):
and I just said, no what, I'm gonna go ahead
and call it and and that's what I did. For
professional athletes, competition is king on and off the clock,
even when it's all over. Antoine's career earnings were one
hundred and ten million dollars. Antoine has always had a

(37:55):
big personality, but as you can tell, an even bigger
heart for those he loves. They say father time is undefeated.
But for some athletes who make waves, even if they
have more wind in their sales front offices league wide
can put them out to sea, into open waters. When
did you know I'm in trouble? You know when it

(38:16):
came to money? When did you know? And how long
was it before the rest of the world started to
find out? Um? For me, UM at the meeting with
UM the bankruptcy people and telling me what I would
have to do and breaking down my situation. UM, I
knew I was gonna be in trouble, but I'm gonna
go back to it. I always thought rex I was

(38:38):
gonna play more. I never thought that I was not
going to get back on the basketball court. I never
thought that. And that probably was the biggest thing. If
I would have took that approach, I probably could have
did a few things, probably still had to file bankruptcy.
But what year was this, Twine? What year was that?
Two thousand and ten? Okay, So it just was one
of those things where I had to really you know,

(39:00):
I evaluated and thought about it. I was like, Okay,
I'm gonna play again. I have opportunity to put some
money up. Um. Everything was out my system at this time.
I was humbled. Uh you know, I had to because
after my Gamut situation, part of my deal was that
I don't get with the casinos no more, you know,
So that was part of my deal. So all that
stuff was like out my system. I was moving forward

(39:22):
in different directions. So I'm like, yeah, if I can
go steal me three four more years, right, you know,
you know, I mean, I I'm with you. I'm with you.
It's such a hard feeling because and I was way
too old to go back and play. That was you
know part of it. You know. I was like, but
I can I can understand. You were still a young
man at that point, Twine. Yeah, so I'm thinking, like,

(39:42):
you know, I'm gonna get there, play me a few more.
Hey cut down a little bit of my lifestyle. When
I went through the bankruptcy, I was able to get
rid of some things and move some things around. And
and a lot of people don't understand when you found bankruptcy,
you can keep everything if you really if you can
figure out a way to hey it, you know what
I mean. And people don't understand that. Your creditors are

(40:03):
usually like, okay, you file bankruptcy, can you still paying
this car note? You know? You know, so people do
understand that having the house, can you still pay this mortgage? No,
they're not gonna take you don't have to move out
your house, but can you pay for the upkeep of
this place? And can you pay the taxes and all
that stuff. So that was all the process and going
through that at that time, Antoine, as a dad, you know,

(40:26):
I want to ask you something, uh, someone who's been
to jail for stealing in an Apple store to pay
for my habits. I understand shame. Um. You know when
stories came out that you owe this money child support
and your daughter can't go to school, the school that
she's been going to since she was little, because you
can't afford the tuition. A guy who's made over a

(40:48):
hundred million dollars in ten years is at the lowest
point in your life? And if not, what was and
how did you deal with that? Antoine? It was very
disappointed that it was one of the low points because
I had did so much financially for my daughter prior
to that, and it was a bad relationship between me
and her mom um that drove up to that. And

(41:09):
sometimes people, um don't get it, and I think at
that time she didn't get it. She was very content
and getting that money every month, and now the denomination
changes and now you're not gonna get that, and it's
the blame game. And it became that point, and it
did become very serious, and I had to go talk
to the school. My daughter had been in private school

(41:30):
a whole life, and it wasn't the fact that told
the move. I told the school. I said, listen, um,
part of my child support agreement is to pay for
her to go to the school I can't afford to
pay to her go to school, and you know, we're
gonna try to figure out something different. Um wasn't that,
And my daughter was very smart and still was a
bunch of other good schools that she could go to.

(41:51):
But that is a disappointing thing, because you do want
your kids to go to the best school possible. But UM,
I was more disappointed that me and my baby mother
at the time couldn't figure this out, and we took
it public. The Lord's point in my life was, UM,
I built my mom a home from the ground up,
four million dollars UM, fifteen thousand square feet UM, indoor pool.

(42:16):
I think it was twelve thirteen bedrooms. And when I
found my bankruptcy, I had an option to keep any
home I wanted. I was gonna be able to afford
to pay one mortgage, and my mom told me to
keep my place and told me to let hers go.
And I was like, no, I'll just live with you,

(42:38):
and she said no, She said, you worked too, you
don't need to live with me. She said, we're downsize.
And that probably was the Lord's point, because that was
my my dream to build her home from the ground
up and I let her sit with the architect. I
had nothing to do with none of the designs. I
just opened the checkbook and get a a she want

(43:01):
And that was one of my proudest moments of my life.
And when it came down the bankruptcy and the upkeeping.
You can imagine the upkeep on the fifteen thousand square
for home, the taxes Morgeson, she just was like, let
it go. It's crazy. And I shared the story. That's
a really more occurrent story. And you know, sometimes you

(43:22):
don't talk to your mom. And everything has been great.
I mean, she's in great spirits, but during the pandemic,
you know, some emotions hit. She was down a little
bit and she hurt me because she told me she
still drives by the house. You know what, But you
know what, that's okay, that's okay, No, not a sense
that that not the fact that she hurt me personally.

(43:43):
But I'm just saying that feeling comes up again. I know,
I know, how do you take care of your mental health?
You know what. I've been very fortunate. A couple of
people looked out and you probably never saw. I filmed
the documentary I know about it. Yeah, I filmed the
documentary and I think that was the the best thing
for me. And you know what was great about the

(44:04):
documentary is I had my family and friends and people
that have been in my circle and just to see them.
I wasn't in the interviews, but to see the interviews,
to see how they feel about you, to see what
they think the head of them. And I'm not for
sure if you know, um, but this was my first year.
I got an opportunity to do all the financial literacy
for the league. That's great. That was my goal, my

(44:27):
dream to be able to turn my negative story into
a positive story or to be kind of a learning
tool for these young guys. And the opportunity presented itself
and I we had did twenty six other thirty teams
prior to the world shutting down. Um, but I ain't
gona lie to you, Rex. That was like the best
thing for me to be one back in front of

(44:48):
my peers talk and sharing my story with the guys.
Um having that interaction again, being around the guys, I mean,
traveling to all the cities, like I felt like I
was back a part of it, you know what I'm saying.
I felt like I was back a part of it,
and we also um during the pandemic, we did the zoom,
so we we kept it going. UM. I was a

(45:09):
big part of that, and I was brought in by
the Players Association, and that's what made even more special.
I'm with you, man, I was very similar, you know,
because I do a lot of the drug stuff. And
James Jones, you know James you played against James uh,
he's the GM of the Sons now. A couple of
years ago we were talking and I had, you know,

(45:29):
been through some you know, real troubles and kind of
felt like I was toxic. People didn't want to, you know,
have much to do with me. And and I started
doing NBA TV again, and I started doing Kentucky basketball again,
and I saw these people that were welcoming me back in.
And he turned to me one time and he said, look,
he said, you're smiling again. I said yeah. He said,

(45:49):
you got basketball back. And isn't that something you know
all those times? You know, and you said it. You
you know, you're traveling to the NBA cities and you're
seeing familiar faces and a lot of stuff that we
took for granted as players. We get a chance to
make up for now. And you know, we all set
out to be Grant Hill and Ray Allen who just

(46:10):
scale through and they they're just all American guys and
they're mentally put together. But a lot of us, you know, struggle,
you know, giving everything and and and all of that.
So I'm just proud of you looking back on all
of it, Twine, Uh, what do you wish you could
have or would have done differently? I think, you know,
it's hard to say what one particular thing I think. Um,

(46:31):
you know, I kind of break it down in categories
when you think about financially. But I think I'm still
gonna take care of my mom. I think I'm still
gonna take care of my brothers and sisters, the family,
peace and friends of the extended family and friends. Um,
I think I would have more accountability, um for them.
I think I would want them to have more hold them,
more accountable. Um. I wouldn't just probably let loose cash

(46:52):
go out the door as easy as I did, And
I would say this is actually is one thing and
for me and for more athletes and what we all
make a mistake. We don't think about retiring. We just
don't think about thirty five or four years old, and
it's like when you came. I came in nineteen. I'm
playing and I'm I'm getting up and down and I'm

(47:13):
making money. I'm not thinking about thirty five. I'm not
thinking about forty just going in, you know what I mean.
All I'm thinking about these checks rolling in. I'm playing.
I'm in the best shape of my life. I'm having
the most fun in my life. You're not thinking about that.
And that's why I try to humble guys at and
let them understand. I was a year and a half
removed from the game before it hit rock bottom for me.

(47:36):
You gotta know that what you're doing is really powerful.
It's really powerful, and it's gonna help. It's gonna you're
gonna You're gonna keep a guy or two or ten
or twenty or a hundred from you know, going down
the road that that you have because Antoine is powerful.
You're an NBA All Star, You're champion in college and
the pros people are gonna listen to your story, So

(47:56):
sharing it is way powerful. Man. I'm more proud of
you over this than I am over all the basketball stuff.
And one thing I think you understand there's two rests
from going through your child and tribulations. One thing about it,
it's not you. It's a part of your story. Um.
You know, it's more good than bad. It's a part
of your life that obviously wish you could take back.
But if you let it tear you down, it could

(48:19):
lead you to a really, really dark place that you
may not be able to recover from. But if you
have some therapeutic situations to help you talk about it,
to help you, you know. So that's what's been good
for me. I've been had. I've had numerous opportunities over
the last four or five years of my life to
be able to talk about it, speak about it, and
to be honest with you. It's not enjoyable, you know.

(48:41):
I have to get my mindset and I don't know
what you have to go through before. But you get
tired of asking those questions. You get tired of answering, oh,
why why did you do this? Or you know, But
being able to be in front of my peers just
past year, and to be with guys that you know,
I said in that room I was on there, um
was great to be able to get those guys to communicate,

(49:02):
to talk to me, to ask me questions, UM, to
know know what not to do, what to do. That's
what feels good. You're giving back, man, And you're right though,
and it wears me out some days. I know I'm
supposed to go give a speech and I'm like, I
do not want to talk about the worst fucking day
of my life again today. And so but then I
get there, and then I start seeing people and they're

(49:24):
really into it and they're taking away something, and I think, well,
it would be awful selfish of me to not share it. Right,
That's exactly how I was. I think all those things
are are therapeutic and get you through it. But to
be honest with you, I mean, I'm bea forty five X.
I feel like it's a part of my life, you
know what. I love to be in half of my

(49:47):
financial position that I was in. Of course, well who
wouldn't want to be. But a lot of headaches are
going too. That's right, that's right. And you're still a
young man, Twine, You're still a young man. What's next
for you? I would love to continue to progress and TV,
but I'm now starting to think about UM, maybe wanted
to be with the team if you've done that before,

(50:07):
maybe in the front office scouting, Um, I want to
stay a part of the game. I'm actually in the
process of just figuring out because I never went down
that path, whether it was trying to coach or scouting.
I've never really really put a whole hearted effort into it.
But maybe just trying to reach out now, trying to
see if I can get on somebody, maybe start off

(50:28):
scouting um of some sort. I do love TV, UM,
but you know, like I know about TV, it's a
million of us that um, you know, ex players in
the field. It's not a lot of turnover in the job.
You know, they're kind of using the same people. So
I don't know if anything will open up in that
in that spectrum. But Fox has been great to me.

(50:49):
I'm already going into my fore fear with them, and
I mean they still give me a piece, and you know,
I still don't get in a couple of days a
week and get an opportunity to talk the game. So
I do enjoy that. I just want to stay in sports, man,
this was I love to do. There's a place for you. Hey,
letna switch this up. Last thing real quick. And a
lot of ways. You were ahead of your time as
a player. I mean you were you were six ten

(51:10):
six and all right, yeah, that's what I'm getting to. So, uh,
you're ahead of your time. When you watch the game today,
what do you see and how do you think you'd
fit in? I remember when I used to get criticized
for shooting threes. Yeah, and now guys, now teams are
shooting attempts at game. So I feel like I helped

(51:33):
transition the game a little bit into that. So I
was looking at that and you know, in my prime
probably yeah, I probably make it three million, and you
would save it this time. But there's big things on
the horizon for you, Antoine, bro listen, thanks so much
for joining me on charges today, being so open and
honest about this journey. You know, your person who brought

(51:53):
so much joy the millions of fans around the world
when you played, you stood tall, and then your story
took a turn. You truly are an inspiration, Antoine, your
true testament to how overcoming things are possible. And uh,
I want you to know, man, my door is always
open to you. I'm excited for the next chapter in
your life. Thanks for having me on the show About.

(52:15):
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