December 16, 2024 • 30 mins
Previously Recorded
Michelle and Sarah Jakes Roberts dig deep into being a woman in today’s society and mastering how to “have it all.” They also discuss the church’s role in mental health. The conversation moves Michelle to open up about the importance of having supportive friends like Sarah, reminding us to CHECK IN with our “strong friends” and making sure we all get the help we need.
National Suicide Prevention Lifeline Contact Info:
800-273-8255
https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/
Find a Therapist:
https://borislhensonfoundation.org/
https://therapyforblackgirls.com/
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Checking In with Michelle Williams, a production of
iHeartRadio and The Black Effect. Hey, everybody, it's Michelle Williams.
(00:21):
Welcome to my podcast Checking In with Michelle Williams, a
part of iHeartMedia and The Black Effect. My next guest
is such a boss. Okay, not just a boss for
the Graham. She's a real boss. But the most important
part of her that's boss to me is that she's
(00:44):
a boss in prayer. She's a boss as an entrepreneur,
She's a boss as a pastor. She is a absolute boss.
And guess what, she just may inspire you to take
the next step in your life right now on Checking
In with Michelle Williams. Listen, everybody, I am just really, really,
(01:17):
really happy to have this awesome guest. I'm trying not
to say all the churchie words on this auspicious occasion,
but listen, I'm happy to know this woman. I'm happy
to know this amazing wife, media mogul mother. I probably
didn't say it in the correct order because I'm not
(01:38):
looking at a piece of paper. Not only wife mother,
media mogul, but founder of Woman Evolved. Did I say
author of amazing books? You guys, I want y'all to
welcome my friend, my girl, Miss Sarah Jakes Robert come
on podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
I am really digging podcast Michelle. I like all of
them Michelles, but podcast Michelle is doing a thing for me.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
I like her word. Come on in affirm, come on,
give it all, give it all. Last time I think
I was on your podcast or I'm sitting down with
you for your digital series, we talked about affirming one
another and you did not know how to take it.
I was like, Sarah, you are a bomb.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
You know, I don't know. Here we go see and
I'm yeah, that happened.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
You know.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
I'm receiving it. I am receiving it.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
I think that I have to allow myself to receive
those truths about me, because you know, when you've had
self doubt or insecurities, like those are the thoughts that
are at the forefront of your mind. And when someone
speaks something that like wages war with that thought, you
have to like wrestle it down to receive it as truth.
(02:58):
And so what you caught me in was the middle
of my wrestling process. But I'm receiving it.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Okay, y'all, we are two minutes and twenty five seconds
into this podcast, and she already dropped about three tweetable
nuggets instagram worthy caption I'm a love on her for
a second. She's a boss, okay, b a wse just
doing so many things? How are you balancing it all?
Speaker 2 (03:28):
I don't think that I am, you know, I feel
like I have relieved myself from the pressure of feeling
like balance means that everything is running at the same
case and same speed and same efficiency all at the
same time. I think that my new goal is to
really make sure that I am being attentive to what
(03:51):
needs my attention the most and delegating in the areas
where it allows me to perhaps grow someone else or
handover the ranks to different part of it. But I
just feel like balance can be a little bit of
an illusion, and sometimes balance makes me feel pressure like
I like the idea I'm doing the best that I
can more than this pressure of I need to make
(04:13):
sure everything is moving at the same case. For me,
that creates a little bit of a sense of anxiety.
It's from the place of center, with me being balanced
and angered within myself, that I can then execute what
needs to be done outside of me, and that is
what brings me the most peace. So I don't think
I'm balancing everything at the same time. I think I'm
finding in their balance and then executing based off of
(04:34):
what comes to mind from that place of peace.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Wow. So do you feel like that eliminates the difficulties
of you building you?
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Well, it does in a way, because I feel like
everything that I build is organic.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
To who I am.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
I think that when I am trying to balance everything
at the same time that I find myself building for
other people or building at the case of what other
people need.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
But I feel like when I am.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Balanced on the inside of myself that I'm able to
produce what is organic to who I am, So there's
not pressure to perform.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
If that makes.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Sense, Come on somebody, So it sounds like to me
then too, Then you are able to even build the
atmosphere around you and train the people around you to
like uh uh, and you're building your atmosphere of how
you want to thrive.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Some days I can cook and work out at six
thirty and go and film and record and preach. Some
days I can do that. Some days all I can
do is taking that, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Some days.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
This is all I have for you today is rest
and learning to be okay with that. For me is
balanced because I have to. I think it's all about
knowing your triggers. It's easy for me to fall into
this idea of performing for other people and not knowing who.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
I want listen. I think you've brought up that word
performance about three times, and there is a such thing
as a person being a performance oriented person where I
will do this for this type of response, even it's
for a response that you think you owe yourself instead
of saying no, baby, sit down. You don't have to
(06:17):
perform for anybody else's type of response. Just make sure
that you're doing everything from an organic and authentic place
and just from a place where you feel like, no,
this is necessary for me to do. You also talked
about balance. You are showing that you can be all
of those things that you are and still have a career.
(06:40):
I guess, as they're saying redefining what a woman's role
has to be in this world, you know you just
don't have to well, I hope I don't get in trouble,
but you just don't have to stay home. You just
don't have to be putting the turkey in the oven.
You just don't have to be making sure that when
he comes home you're readily accessible for whatever he needs.
(07:03):
You're showing no, no, no, I can work. I can
have the career you say you're you said working preaching
the podcast. You have a clothing boutique, you are a mother,
you are a wife. And I just remember some years
ago I was telling someone that was working with me
at the time about all these things that I wanted
(07:23):
to do, and they were like, no, that's too much.
I think you should just focus on one thing. While
I do agree, we have to focus on one thing
and every now and then and master that area. As
they say, you don't want to be jack of all
trades and master of none of them. I totally get that,
but just to know that you are encouraging people. Of course,
(07:45):
we got to have structure that you can do it all.
What advice can you give to women today who want
to take it to the next level with their career
or aspirations.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
I think that next level is always an inside job,
like to really come to a place where you understand,
like why do I want to take it to the
next level? Because you can say I want to build
the vehicle. I know where the destination is, but like,
what is going to be your fuel to the next level?
And armed with that to really create space in your
world for you to get there? Right, So if we
(08:18):
use this car analogy, like there are certain times when
you don't drive in la there are some places you
go to the other side of the city at a
certain time because you just know traffic. So you have
to really assess, Okay, this is where I want to go.
What is going to motivate me to withstand whatever resistance
is going to be a part of that path? And
then how am I going to execute this practically? What
(08:40):
does that mean about my job? What does that mean
about what time I wake up in the morning. I
think it starts from the inside with external ponents that
we begin to incorporate to make sure that we're able
to move to that.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
To that next level. But it's not enough to just
want to go to the next.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Level if you don't know why, because when you do
meet resistance, and you will meet resistance, you have to
be able to popify whether or not you have what
it takes to overcome it. And so why am I
doing this? Why is this important to me? And understanding that,
I believe is really I'm going to say three quarters
of the battle from there. Execution is a Google you know,
(09:16):
search away, but that why you can't find on Google?
Speaker 3 (09:19):
That why is down on the insight?
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Come on, come on, and I think you're already helping
me transition over into while doing all of that. How
you're managing the stress of it all? Even during this
time during the pandemic, we see how the state of
the country is, and we see anxiety and depression rates
(09:43):
are on the rise. If you don't mind sharing, just personally,
what are you doing to manage your stress during this time?
Speaker 2 (09:52):
I am kind of known around my house for suppressing
my functions.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Because sometimes I nobody got time.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
To feel things, all right, I have to get things
done right, that's that performance thing, right. So what I
am learning to do is to create space for me
to feel and to identify what I'm feeling and to
be okay with feeling that, because one, I need to
figure out what I'm feeling, and for me, that takes work.
(10:22):
For other people it might just be like there for them,
but like I need to understand why am I feeling
the way that I'm feeling, how can I love myself
from where I am right now? How can I love
this brokenness? How can I understand this brokenness? And then
how can I allow myself to be loved and to growth?
What do the perspectives look like? What does worship look like?
(10:43):
Do I need to let someone into this moment? But
it is about stillness for me, Like I was just
sharing a message about how important it is for us
to really take time to be intentional about being slow
because we have such a microwave, rapid crashit boss culture
and it is amazing. But the truth is that if
(11:04):
we don't take time to cultivate being slow, then we
will end up being machines when we were created to be.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Being Well, you know that I hate. I've been hating that,
saying while you was sleeping, I was grinding. Well, you
crazy because I'm gonna take a nap. Well, I'm tired
and I'm gonna take a nap. I'm gonna arrest. You
were saying how you were allowing yourself to just be
and allowing yourself to feel. Is it easy for you
(11:34):
to be vulnerable?
Speaker 3 (11:37):
You know, I think being transparent and being vulnerable are
two different thing.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Two different things, yes, because I feel, especially as women,
I think sometimes we are always on watch, and I
believe we build these walls that we don't even know
we're building. You know, that's just a way of coping,
that's just the way of protecting ourselves. My mother never
said you gotta be a strong woman. I just saw
(12:03):
her strength. I never saw her crumble. I never to
this day. I saw my mom cry for the first
time in like two thousand and nine or ten at
my grandmother's funeral. I never, in my forty one years
of life have seen my mother cry. And I just
remember that was a complaint in a relationship of mine,
is that I'm not vulnerable. Although I feel Out'm transparent,
(12:28):
I'm very honest, but I'm like vulnerable. So what do
you mean? You want me to cry when the sun rises?
You want me to cry when the birds are chirping.
I don't know, but I feel like as I begin
to do some healing of my own heart, I found
myself being vulnerable to the point where a couple weeks ago,
(12:48):
I was like, oh Lord, no, I need you to
hearten my heart again. I don't want to feel this.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Is it easy for people to be vulnerable, Like, I
don't think it's like easy, like it's not my default setting,
but it is a less space in which I know
I must live in and it just requires humility, it
requires grace, it requires courage, and don't even talk about
inviting someone else into that space. That's when it gets
real real.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
What have been some of your coping strategies during this pandemic?
Have you? Are you a homebody? Has the pandemic been
working for you? It's been working for me because I
like being home.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
I love being home.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Home, home is my and I think before the pandemic,
I was traveling and moving so much that it took
me some time to accept that I didn't have to
move anymore.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
And it was really like.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
It was emotional for me even like it's on a
spiritual level, because it gave me time to finally accept
my life. And that's why I think that idea of
like embracing the slow is so important because your life
is changing and you're moving, and sometimes we miss out
on what has really transpired inside of us.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
And so it has been working for me. Yeah, I
love being home.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
It's allowed me to really prioritize my health, like At
first I was eating all of the next and then
I was like you for not taking your You're always
on the move, so like, let's really determine like who
we're going to be in this moment. And it's made
me a better mother, a better wife. I'd like to say,
it's made me a better and more intentional friend too.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
That is awesome. And that's what checking in has been about,
is making sure you are checking in with you, yeah,
checking with others, and of course more importantly checking in
with God. I know you've had your share of counseling
single women, and I know just a few days ago
you posted the most beautiful dope picture of you and
(14:44):
Terree Pastor Terrey Roberts, your husband. I know you have
many thoughts on women and singleness, and I just think
that that question could It's so it's so broad. If
you had one thing to say today as a relation
to women in singleness, whether it's waiting, whether it's not
worshiping the desire of marriage or investing in yourself, just basically,
(15:10):
what should we be doing right now?
Speaker 2 (15:14):
I think that one of the things that we haven't
done the best job at doing in the really affirming
a woman in her identity outside of marriage. And I
think marriage has become like this arrival, this trophy, this
awar that you get for doing things the right way
if you leave it up to religion. Yes, yes, I
(15:37):
believe this single woman should really take the time to
really love and embrace who they are without the validation
of a relationship or a man that makes them feel better.
Like I think my most treasured moments with myself happened
when I was single.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
Now I share my life with my.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Husband and I have a life that I love because
I married someone who was worthy of me sharing my
life with.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
But I would have never made that decision had I not.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Taken the time to really love and understand my own
self worth and value. And that doesn't come from being
with someone. That comes from being with yourself.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Come on, because I feel like when you have a
need to be with someone, maybe that's where you settle.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
So much of your identity is then wrapped up into
that person you know, and so like, I know who
I am unless I am with you. And I think
that one of the reasons I know, for in fact,
one of the reasons my husband loves me is because,
like I know who I am outside of our marriage,
so I know who he's receiving. I know what I
can do, I know what I can't do, I know
(16:45):
when I'm off center, what I need he to Our
marriage is successful because it depends on an awareness like
about our self. And if you don't have that self
awareness going into a marriage, you're going to abuse the
person you're with because you're going to ask them to
be medicine for your soul twenty four to seven because
you don't know what it takes to heal you yourself.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Absolutely. So basically we have to have a way where
we are soothing ourselves. We are not asking them to
fill us up. Although it's nice because affirmation fills you up,
protection fills you up, respect fills you up. But at
the same time, you're not coming into the relationship so
empty like this cup I hold in my hand, and
(17:28):
you're expecting them to fill you up so much and
you don't have anything to fill them back up with
in return. And I will say when you look at
that that that is definitely not fair. You spoke about
the church's response to singleness and marriage. I want you
to know that I appreciate on your podcast when you
(17:49):
have doctor Anita Phillips on there talking about mental health.
What do you think overall the church's response to the
topic of mental health has been lately.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Lately, I think that we have come to a place
where we have accepted that we are outleads when it
comes to helping people walk through mental health issues, and
I think that's a beautiful space to be in.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
I can tell you.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
About Bible study, but at the end of the day,
I am not a clinical professional who can help you
understand the way that your brain works, the way that
your mind responds to trauma.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
And I think that we.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Are allowing ourselves to be okay with that, which is
freeing so many people to use prayer and therapy or
weapon and not feeling like I have to choose one
or the other, or that makes me less of a believer,
because I've seen so many people now embracing mental health
perspectives that just five years ago we would have said,
you need to pray that away, or you just need
to turn on the worship music and that out of
(18:41):
go away. When you feel the Holy Spirit empowering you,
it may not mean that the depression breaks you instantly
in that moment, but they could definitely, Spirit is empowering
you to call that therapist to finally be Okay, we're
going to get that medication. And that's like the Holy
Spirit can work in a number of ways, and I
feel like that's important for you people to know, even
if you don't get that immediate breakthrough in the moment,
(19:03):
if you feel like now I feel empowered to call someone,
Now I feel empowered to get help. That is the
Holy Spirit too, like we're going to take what he
gives us an apply it to the tools that are
available to us.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Absolutely, I always say prayer and therapy go hand in hand.
Every Monday around noon has been my standing appointment. And
when I get off of my therapy, zoom, I know
I can take more specific things to God in prayer,
be like, now God, you hurt the therapist, you hurt
what she said. And I really just encourage people that
(19:36):
Sarah said, you can do both. You can pray and
have a therapist. Because we have to also know that
we cannot put everything on the minister or the pastor.
You know, every minister and pastor they're not trained in
that area of mental health. But I do feel like
some churches are now having in house therapists in their ministry,
(19:57):
or they have more contacts when they come in and say, pastor,
this is what I'm doing this, this is what I'm
going through. And instead of him just reading you a
scripture or praying for you, he can do that, but
he also can go into his contact list and say, hey,
I want to refer you to this trusted clinical practitioner
to help you in whatever area you need, and that
(20:17):
does not diminish the God in you. I don't want
people to feel like, well, if I go to therapy
or if I talk to somebody about it, that I'm
leaving God out the equation if I don't talk to him.
I think that we are able to do both. Sarah,
thank you so much for joining us. If you can
just encourage everybody out here about keeping their faith and
(20:41):
how to empower us during this time. We don't know
how long this pandemic is gonna last. We don't know
if things are going to go back to normal. Can
you give us just a moment of encouragement.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
What has been encouraged me encouraging me in this season,
whether it's the political division, or the pandemic or the
racial undrest, is that God has not been caught by
surprise by any of it. That he may look at
it and his heart is breaking, but he's not looking
at it as the way that I am, and that
he knows the end from the beginning. And if He
(21:13):
chose for us to be alive in this season, at
this time, in this generation, it's because we can be
a part of bringing the change and the transformation that
is so desperately needed. And so you're listening to this,
and maybe you've been feeling stressed, maybe you've been feeling
lost in computer. I want you to know that you
are here by design, on time, that God has a
(21:36):
strategy and a plan, and I want to empower you
to move whatever stressors, to make space to go to therapy,
to get the help that you need so that you
can be clear about how you can be a change
agent in this season. Nothing changes the atmosphere like being
a part of the change. And so I want to
encourage you to do the work, to show up so
that we can see this world turn into what God
(21:57):
had in mind when he placed us in it.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
My gosh, y'all, I'm gonna send her a cash app,
you know. And I say that because you always drop
so much knowledge and insight for us to take away
and actually apply it. It's so practical, but yet it
(22:20):
is powerful. Sarah, I want to thank you for joining
me on my podcast today. I really appreciate you forgiving
us your time today.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
I love you. I'm so proud of you.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
I cannot believe that we are doing something new and amazing.
That I shouldn't be new and amazing.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
It is just what you do.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Okay, come on, come on, well, thank you so much.
We continue to lift you up and support everything you
gotta do. Tell us where we can find you, and
tell us anything next for you that we need to
be aware of. Thank you, Sarah. We'll see you later. Okay, everybody,
(23:02):
y'all aren't gonna hear me crying. I'm gonna try to
get myself together when I say. Sarah is a friend
and a sister. Sarah and her husband, they were there
for me in a really, really dark moment, and I
really appreciate them for that. I really thank her for
(23:26):
not judging but praying. And we need people like that
in our life when we are going through. None of
us are immune to going through. And I just pray
right now that everybody listening to this episode, I just
want to let you know I pray that you have
a safe circle. I pray that you have safe people
(23:50):
so that when you're going through or even when you
want something to celebrate, that you have a safe crowd
of people who will love on you. Because yes, we
have people that we can call on who actually love
when we're going through something. Right, the reason why I'm
crying is because which I said I wasn't gonna cry,
is because she can celebrate this moment for me with
(24:14):
my podcast. She has a podcast too, but she's not saying, well,
I have a podcast, so why would I do your podcast.
It's not that kind of spirit at all. And my
book is called checking In, And I just am so
grateful to have others that I can check in with
(24:34):
because I teach people check in with yourself, but check
in with others. And just know, I pray you feel
like you're not a burden to people. There are so
many people who have died by suicide simply because they
felt they were a burden to somebody, simply because they
felt like they could not pick up the phone and
(24:57):
call somebody or do this when someone asks us how
we're doing we lie and say we're fine. But because
of the spirit that Sarah left behind, I want to
go even further and pray that you feel you are
your strongest when you could admit your weakness. It takes
(25:19):
strength to tell somebody I'm not doing okay. I feel
like I want to give up. You are at your
strongest when you can even tell somebody yo, I even
have a plan to take my own life. I'm not
just talking about it. I'm gonna walk this out. I
actually have a plan, and I just pray right now
(25:40):
that you have a safe circle. We will also be
providing resources for you to call. There are so many
apps that are available for you to get a therapist
or someone that you can talk to where you can
see them face to face. Listen, y'all, we invest in
our our hair, our clothes. We invest in the latest sneakers,
(26:05):
but we're buying sneakers that cost three hundred dollars and
in some places that is three therapy sessions. And if
you feel like I'm preaching, I am because I want
us to get to talking it out with somebody. You
can do it. Men, especially, I want you to know
(26:26):
you are at your strongest when you can admit a
weakness or a struggle, and if I do, say so myself,
you're a little more attractive when you can do that. Women,
there is something about us being able to be vulnerable,
not needy, but just vulnerable and say I'm not doing well,
(26:51):
I'm in need of help. I'm not the strong woman
that y'all see on Instagram because how many of us.
We post so many things on Instagram that people don't
feel like you need help. They don't feel like you
need help, so they're not gonna check on you, and
they say check on your quote unquote strong people. I
just want to also let you know I've been there.
(27:11):
You know. People are like, well, your friends are Beyonce
and Kelly. I've got other friends, but those are the
two people that people bring up the most and they say, well,
those are your friends. What do you have to be
sad about? You know, my depression and anxiety it started
way before coming into this industry. Mine started out as
(27:34):
whatever age around sixth or seventh grade. That's when it
started for me. So you can't equate someone's success with
how they're feeling on the inside. I didn't have an outlet.
I didn't know what to call it. I just knew
I was not feeling the same, and I thought that
therapy was just for maybe upper class white people. And
(27:57):
like I said, I talk about it more in my
book Checking In. You guys have to get into it.
You have to read it. You have to know getting
help is one of the strongest, swaggiest things you could
ever do. I can go on and on and on.
I think my takeaway is you are loved. We talked
(28:17):
about strength, we talked a little bit about entrepreneurshiping and
building yourself, but I think I'm led to tell you
throughout all of this, this conversation went in a whole
nother direction. I just want you to know you're loved
and you can make it. You're not alone. It's heavy
lifting to do the work, but you can do this.
You can do this if we go lift weights at
(28:39):
the gym, or do pushups, or do whatever. If we
lift that coffee cup to our mouths, if we lift
that honey bun or whatever it is, that kale and
spinach or that memosa, whatever you got in your hand
right now, I think it takes that same amount of
energy to pick up the phone and get the help
you need. Or send a text to somebody. Heck, if
(28:59):
you want to me a DM in my Instagram messages
and just get it out, Get it out. Once again,
you are loved. Checking In with Michelle Williams is a
(29:50):
production of iHeartRadio and The Black Effect. For more podcasts
from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.
Welcome to Checking In with Michelle Williams, a production of
iHeartRadio and The Black Effect. Hey, everybody, it's Michelle Williams.
(00:21):
Welcome to my podcast Checking In with Michelle Williams, a
part of iHeartMedia and The Black Effect. My next guest
is such a boss. Okay, not just a boss for
the Graham. She's a real boss. But the most important
part of her that's boss to me is that she's
(00:44):
a boss in prayer. She's a boss as an entrepreneur,
She's a boss as a pastor. She is a absolute boss.
And guess what, she just may inspire you to take
the next step in your life right now on Checking
In with Michelle Williams. Listen, everybody, I am just really, really,
(01:17):
really happy to have this awesome guest. I'm trying not
to say all the churchie words on this auspicious occasion,
but listen, I'm happy to know this woman. I'm happy
to know this amazing wife, media mogul mother. I probably
didn't say it in the correct order because I'm not
(01:38):
looking at a piece of paper. Not only wife mother,
media mogul, but founder of Woman Evolved. Did I say
author of amazing books? You guys, I want y'all to
welcome my friend, my girl, Miss Sarah Jakes Robert come
on podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
I am really digging podcast Michelle. I like all of
them Michelles, but podcast Michelle is doing a thing for me.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
I like her word. Come on in affirm, come on,
give it all, give it all. Last time I think
I was on your podcast or I'm sitting down with
you for your digital series, we talked about affirming one
another and you did not know how to take it.
I was like, Sarah, you are a bomb.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
You know, I don't know. Here we go see and
I'm yeah, that happened.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
You know.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
I'm receiving it. I am receiving it.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
I think that I have to allow myself to receive
those truths about me, because you know, when you've had
self doubt or insecurities, like those are the thoughts that
are at the forefront of your mind. And when someone
speaks something that like wages war with that thought, you
have to like wrestle it down to receive it as truth.
(02:58):
And so what you caught me in was the middle
of my wrestling process. But I'm receiving it.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
Okay, y'all, we are two minutes and twenty five seconds
into this podcast, and she already dropped about three tweetable
nuggets instagram worthy caption I'm a love on her for
a second. She's a boss, okay, b a wse just
doing so many things? How are you balancing it all?
Speaker 2 (03:28):
I don't think that I am, you know, I feel
like I have relieved myself from the pressure of feeling
like balance means that everything is running at the same
case and same speed and same efficiency all at the
same time. I think that my new goal is to
really make sure that I am being attentive to what
(03:51):
needs my attention the most and delegating in the areas
where it allows me to perhaps grow someone else or
handover the ranks to different part of it. But I
just feel like balance can be a little bit of
an illusion, and sometimes balance makes me feel pressure like
I like the idea I'm doing the best that I
can more than this pressure of I need to make
(04:13):
sure everything is moving at the same case. For me,
that creates a little bit of a sense of anxiety.
It's from the place of center, with me being balanced
and angered within myself, that I can then execute what
needs to be done outside of me, and that is
what brings me the most peace. So I don't think
I'm balancing everything at the same time. I think I'm
finding in their balance and then executing based off of
(04:34):
what comes to mind from that place of peace.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Wow. So do you feel like that eliminates the difficulties
of you building you?
Speaker 2 (04:44):
Well, it does in a way, because I feel like
everything that I build is organic.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
To who I am.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
I think that when I am trying to balance everything
at the same time that I find myself building for
other people or building at the case of what other
people need.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
But I feel like when I am.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Balanced on the inside of myself that I'm able to
produce what is organic to who I am, So there's
not pressure to perform.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
If that makes.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Sense, Come on somebody, So it sounds like to me
then too, Then you are able to even build the
atmosphere around you and train the people around you to
like uh uh, and you're building your atmosphere of how
you want to thrive.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Some days I can cook and work out at six
thirty and go and film and record and preach. Some
days I can do that. Some days all I can
do is taking that, you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Some days.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
This is all I have for you today is rest
and learning to be okay with that. For me is
balanced because I have to. I think it's all about
knowing your triggers. It's easy for me to fall into
this idea of performing for other people and not knowing who.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
I want listen. I think you've brought up that word
performance about three times, and there is a such thing
as a person being a performance oriented person where I
will do this for this type of response, even it's
for a response that you think you owe yourself instead
of saying no, baby, sit down. You don't have to
(06:17):
perform for anybody else's type of response. Just make sure
that you're doing everything from an organic and authentic place
and just from a place where you feel like, no,
this is necessary for me to do. You also talked
about balance. You are showing that you can be all
of those things that you are and still have a career.
(06:40):
I guess, as they're saying redefining what a woman's role
has to be in this world, you know you just
don't have to well, I hope I don't get in trouble,
but you just don't have to stay home. You just
don't have to be putting the turkey in the oven.
You just don't have to be making sure that when
he comes home you're readily accessible for whatever he needs.
(07:03):
You're showing no, no, no, I can work. I can
have the career you say you're you said working preaching
the podcast. You have a clothing boutique, you are a mother,
you are a wife. And I just remember some years
ago I was telling someone that was working with me
at the time about all these things that I wanted
(07:23):
to do, and they were like, no, that's too much.
I think you should just focus on one thing. While
I do agree, we have to focus on one thing
and every now and then and master that area. As
they say, you don't want to be jack of all
trades and master of none of them. I totally get that,
but just to know that you are encouraging people. Of course,
(07:45):
we got to have structure that you can do it all.
What advice can you give to women today who want
to take it to the next level with their career
or aspirations.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
I think that next level is always an inside job,
like to really come to a place where you understand,
like why do I want to take it to the
next level? Because you can say I want to build
the vehicle. I know where the destination is, but like,
what is going to be your fuel to the next level?
And armed with that to really create space in your
world for you to get there? Right, So if we
(08:18):
use this car analogy, like there are certain times when
you don't drive in la there are some places you
go to the other side of the city at a
certain time because you just know traffic. So you have
to really assess, Okay, this is where I want to go.
What is going to motivate me to withstand whatever resistance
is going to be a part of that path? And
then how am I going to execute this practically? What
(08:40):
does that mean about my job? What does that mean
about what time I wake up in the morning. I
think it starts from the inside with external ponents that
we begin to incorporate to make sure that we're able
to move to that.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
To that next level. But it's not enough to just
want to go to the next.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Level if you don't know why, because when you do
meet resistance, and you will meet resistance, you have to
be able to popify whether or not you have what
it takes to overcome it. And so why am I
doing this? Why is this important to me? And understanding that,
I believe is really I'm going to say three quarters
of the battle from there. Execution is a Google you know,
(09:16):
search away, but that why you can't find on Google?
Speaker 3 (09:19):
That why is down on the insight?
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Come on, come on, and I think you're already helping
me transition over into while doing all of that. How
you're managing the stress of it all? Even during this
time during the pandemic, we see how the state of
the country is, and we see anxiety and depression rates
(09:43):
are on the rise. If you don't mind sharing, just personally,
what are you doing to manage your stress during this time?
Speaker 2 (09:52):
I am kind of known around my house for suppressing
my functions.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
Because sometimes I nobody got time.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
To feel things, all right, I have to get things
done right, that's that performance thing, right. So what I
am learning to do is to create space for me
to feel and to identify what I'm feeling and to
be okay with feeling that, because one, I need to
figure out what I'm feeling, and for me, that takes work.
(10:22):
For other people it might just be like there for them,
but like I need to understand why am I feeling
the way that I'm feeling, how can I love myself
from where I am right now? How can I love
this brokenness? How can I understand this brokenness? And then
how can I allow myself to be loved and to growth?
What do the perspectives look like? What does worship look like?
(10:43):
Do I need to let someone into this moment? But
it is about stillness for me, Like I was just
sharing a message about how important it is for us
to really take time to be intentional about being slow
because we have such a microwave, rapid crashit boss culture
and it is amazing. But the truth is that if
(11:04):
we don't take time to cultivate being slow, then we
will end up being machines when we were created to be.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Being Well, you know that I hate. I've been hating that,
saying while you was sleeping, I was grinding. Well, you
crazy because I'm gonna take a nap. Well, I'm tired
and I'm gonna take a nap. I'm gonna arrest. You
were saying how you were allowing yourself to just be
and allowing yourself to feel. Is it easy for you
(11:34):
to be vulnerable?
Speaker 3 (11:37):
You know, I think being transparent and being vulnerable are
two different thing.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Two different things, yes, because I feel, especially as women,
I think sometimes we are always on watch, and I
believe we build these walls that we don't even know
we're building. You know, that's just a way of coping,
that's just the way of protecting ourselves. My mother never
said you gotta be a strong woman. I just saw
(12:03):
her strength. I never saw her crumble. I never to
this day. I saw my mom cry for the first
time in like two thousand and nine or ten at
my grandmother's funeral. I never, in my forty one years
of life have seen my mother cry. And I just
remember that was a complaint in a relationship of mine,
is that I'm not vulnerable. Although I feel Out'm transparent,
(12:28):
I'm very honest, but I'm like vulnerable. So what do
you mean? You want me to cry when the sun rises?
You want me to cry when the birds are chirping.
I don't know, but I feel like as I begin
to do some healing of my own heart, I found
myself being vulnerable to the point where a couple weeks ago,
(12:48):
I was like, oh Lord, no, I need you to
hearten my heart again. I don't want to feel this.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Is it easy for people to be vulnerable, Like, I
don't think it's like easy, like it's not my default setting,
but it is a less space in which I know
I must live in and it just requires humility, it
requires grace, it requires courage, and don't even talk about
inviting someone else into that space. That's when it gets
real real.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
What have been some of your coping strategies during this pandemic?
Have you? Are you a homebody? Has the pandemic been
working for you? It's been working for me because I
like being home.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
I love being home.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Home, home is my and I think before the pandemic,
I was traveling and moving so much that it took
me some time to accept that I didn't have to
move anymore.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
And it was really like.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
It was emotional for me even like it's on a
spiritual level, because it gave me time to finally accept
my life. And that's why I think that idea of
like embracing the slow is so important because your life
is changing and you're moving, and sometimes we miss out
on what has really transpired inside of us.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
And so it has been working for me. Yeah, I
love being home.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
It's allowed me to really prioritize my health, like At
first I was eating all of the next and then
I was like you for not taking your You're always
on the move, so like, let's really determine like who
we're going to be in this moment. And it's made
me a better mother, a better wife. I'd like to say,
it's made me a better and more intentional friend too.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
That is awesome. And that's what checking in has been about,
is making sure you are checking in with you, yeah,
checking with others, and of course more importantly checking in
with God. I know you've had your share of counseling
single women, and I know just a few days ago
you posted the most beautiful dope picture of you and
(14:44):
Terree Pastor Terrey Roberts, your husband. I know you have
many thoughts on women and singleness, and I just think
that that question could It's so it's so broad. If
you had one thing to say today as a relation
to women in singleness, whether it's waiting, whether it's not
worshiping the desire of marriage or investing in yourself, just basically,
(15:10):
what should we be doing right now?
Speaker 2 (15:14):
I think that one of the things that we haven't
done the best job at doing in the really affirming
a woman in her identity outside of marriage. And I
think marriage has become like this arrival, this trophy, this
awar that you get for doing things the right way
if you leave it up to religion. Yes, yes, I
(15:37):
believe this single woman should really take the time to
really love and embrace who they are without the validation
of a relationship or a man that makes them feel better.
Like I think my most treasured moments with myself happened
when I was single.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
Now I share my life with my.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Husband and I have a life that I love because
I married someone who was worthy of me sharing my
life with.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
But I would have never made that decision had I not.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Taken the time to really love and understand my own
self worth and value. And that doesn't come from being
with someone. That comes from being with yourself.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Come on, because I feel like when you have a
need to be with someone, maybe that's where you settle.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
So much of your identity is then wrapped up into
that person you know, and so like, I know who
I am unless I am with you. And I think
that one of the reasons I know, for in fact,
one of the reasons my husband loves me is because,
like I know who I am outside of our marriage,
so I know who he's receiving. I know what I
can do, I know what I can't do, I know
(16:45):
when I'm off center, what I need he to Our
marriage is successful because it depends on an awareness like
about our self. And if you don't have that self
awareness going into a marriage, you're going to abuse the
person you're with because you're going to ask them to
be medicine for your soul twenty four to seven because
you don't know what it takes to heal you yourself.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Absolutely. So basically we have to have a way where
we are soothing ourselves. We are not asking them to
fill us up. Although it's nice because affirmation fills you up,
protection fills you up, respect fills you up. But at
the same time, you're not coming into the relationship so
empty like this cup I hold in my hand, and
(17:28):
you're expecting them to fill you up so much and
you don't have anything to fill them back up with
in return. And I will say when you look at
that that that is definitely not fair. You spoke about
the church's response to singleness and marriage. I want you
to know that I appreciate on your podcast when you
(17:49):
have doctor Anita Phillips on there talking about mental health.
What do you think overall the church's response to the
topic of mental health has been lately.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Lately, I think that we have come to a place
where we have accepted that we are outleads when it
comes to helping people walk through mental health issues, and
I think that's a beautiful space to be in.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
I can tell you.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
About Bible study, but at the end of the day,
I am not a clinical professional who can help you
understand the way that your brain works, the way that
your mind responds to trauma.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
And I think that we.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Are allowing ourselves to be okay with that, which is
freeing so many people to use prayer and therapy or
weapon and not feeling like I have to choose one
or the other, or that makes me less of a believer,
because I've seen so many people now embracing mental health
perspectives that just five years ago we would have said,
you need to pray that away, or you just need
to turn on the worship music and that out of
(18:41):
go away. When you feel the Holy Spirit empowering you,
it may not mean that the depression breaks you instantly
in that moment, but they could definitely, Spirit is empowering
you to call that therapist to finally be Okay, we're
going to get that medication. And that's like the Holy
Spirit can work in a number of ways, and I
feel like that's important for you people to know, even
if you don't get that immediate breakthrough in the moment,
(19:03):
if you feel like now I feel empowered to call someone,
Now I feel empowered to get help. That is the
Holy Spirit too, like we're going to take what he
gives us an apply it to the tools that are
available to us.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Absolutely, I always say prayer and therapy go hand in hand.
Every Monday around noon has been my standing appointment. And
when I get off of my therapy, zoom, I know
I can take more specific things to God in prayer,
be like, now God, you hurt the therapist, you hurt
what she said. And I really just encourage people that
(19:36):
Sarah said, you can do both. You can pray and
have a therapist. Because we have to also know that
we cannot put everything on the minister or the pastor.
You know, every minister and pastor they're not trained in
that area of mental health. But I do feel like
some churches are now having in house therapists in their ministry,
(19:57):
or they have more contacts when they come in and say, pastor,
this is what I'm doing this, this is what I'm
going through. And instead of him just reading you a
scripture or praying for you, he can do that, but
he also can go into his contact list and say, hey,
I want to refer you to this trusted clinical practitioner
to help you in whatever area you need, and that
(20:17):
does not diminish the God in you. I don't want
people to feel like, well, if I go to therapy
or if I talk to somebody about it, that I'm
leaving God out the equation if I don't talk to him.
I think that we are able to do both. Sarah,
thank you so much for joining us. If you can
just encourage everybody out here about keeping their faith and
(20:41):
how to empower us during this time. We don't know
how long this pandemic is gonna last. We don't know
if things are going to go back to normal. Can
you give us just a moment of encouragement.
Speaker 2 (20:52):
What has been encouraged me encouraging me in this season,
whether it's the political division, or the pandemic or the
racial undrest, is that God has not been caught by
surprise by any of it. That he may look at
it and his heart is breaking, but he's not looking
at it as the way that I am, and that
he knows the end from the beginning. And if He
(21:13):
chose for us to be alive in this season, at
this time, in this generation, it's because we can be
a part of bringing the change and the transformation that
is so desperately needed. And so you're listening to this,
and maybe you've been feeling stressed, maybe you've been feeling
lost in computer. I want you to know that you
are here by design, on time, that God has a
(21:36):
strategy and a plan, and I want to empower you
to move whatever stressors, to make space to go to therapy,
to get the help that you need so that you
can be clear about how you can be a change
agent in this season. Nothing changes the atmosphere like being
a part of the change. And so I want to
encourage you to do the work, to show up so
that we can see this world turn into what God
(21:57):
had in mind when he placed us in it.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
My gosh, y'all, I'm gonna send her a cash app,
you know. And I say that because you always drop
so much knowledge and insight for us to take away
and actually apply it. It's so practical, but yet it
(22:20):
is powerful. Sarah, I want to thank you for joining
me on my podcast today. I really appreciate you forgiving
us your time today.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
I love you. I'm so proud of you.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
I cannot believe that we are doing something new and amazing.
That I shouldn't be new and amazing.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
It is just what you do.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Okay, come on, come on, well, thank you so much.
We continue to lift you up and support everything you
gotta do. Tell us where we can find you, and
tell us anything next for you that we need to
be aware of. Thank you, Sarah. We'll see you later. Okay, everybody,
(23:02):
y'all aren't gonna hear me crying. I'm gonna try to
get myself together when I say. Sarah is a friend
and a sister. Sarah and her husband, they were there
for me in a really, really dark moment, and I
really appreciate them for that. I really thank her for
(23:26):
not judging but praying. And we need people like that
in our life when we are going through. None of
us are immune to going through. And I just pray
right now that everybody listening to this episode, I just
want to let you know I pray that you have
a safe circle. I pray that you have safe people
(23:50):
so that when you're going through or even when you
want something to celebrate, that you have a safe crowd
of people who will love on you. Because yes, we
have people that we can call on who actually love
when we're going through something. Right, the reason why I'm
crying is because which I said I wasn't gonna cry,
is because she can celebrate this moment for me with
(24:14):
my podcast. She has a podcast too, but she's not saying, well,
I have a podcast, so why would I do your podcast.
It's not that kind of spirit at all. And my
book is called checking In, And I just am so
grateful to have others that I can check in with
(24:34):
because I teach people check in with yourself, but check
in with others. And just know, I pray you feel
like you're not a burden to people. There are so
many people who have died by suicide simply because they
felt they were a burden to somebody, simply because they
felt like they could not pick up the phone and
(24:57):
call somebody or do this when someone asks us how
we're doing we lie and say we're fine. But because
of the spirit that Sarah left behind, I want to
go even further and pray that you feel you are
your strongest when you could admit your weakness. It takes
(25:19):
strength to tell somebody I'm not doing okay. I feel
like I want to give up. You are at your
strongest when you can even tell somebody yo, I even
have a plan to take my own life. I'm not
just talking about it. I'm gonna walk this out. I
actually have a plan, and I just pray right now
(25:40):
that you have a safe circle. We will also be
providing resources for you to call. There are so many
apps that are available for you to get a therapist
or someone that you can talk to where you can
see them face to face. Listen, y'all, we invest in
our our hair, our clothes. We invest in the latest sneakers,
(26:05):
but we're buying sneakers that cost three hundred dollars and
in some places that is three therapy sessions. And if
you feel like I'm preaching, I am because I want
us to get to talking it out with somebody. You
can do it. Men, especially, I want you to know
(26:26):
you are at your strongest when you can admit a
weakness or a struggle, and if I do, say so myself,
you're a little more attractive when you can do that. Women,
there is something about us being able to be vulnerable,
not needy, but just vulnerable and say I'm not doing well,
(26:51):
I'm in need of help. I'm not the strong woman
that y'all see on Instagram because how many of us.
We post so many things on Instagram that people don't
feel like you need help. They don't feel like you
need help, so they're not gonna check on you, and
they say check on your quote unquote strong people. I
just want to also let you know I've been there.
(27:11):
You know. People are like, well, your friends are Beyonce
and Kelly. I've got other friends, but those are the
two people that people bring up the most and they say, well,
those are your friends. What do you have to be
sad about? You know, my depression and anxiety it started
way before coming into this industry. Mine started out as
(27:34):
whatever age around sixth or seventh grade. That's when it
started for me. So you can't equate someone's success with
how they're feeling on the inside. I didn't have an outlet.
I didn't know what to call it. I just knew
I was not feeling the same, and I thought that
therapy was just for maybe upper class white people. And
(27:57):
like I said, I talk about it more in my
book Checking In. You guys have to get into it.
You have to read it. You have to know getting
help is one of the strongest, swaggiest things you could
ever do. I can go on and on and on.
I think my takeaway is you are loved. We talked
(28:17):
about strength, we talked a little bit about entrepreneurshiping and
building yourself, but I think I'm led to tell you
throughout all of this, this conversation went in a whole
nother direction. I just want you to know you're loved
and you can make it. You're not alone. It's heavy
lifting to do the work, but you can do this.
You can do this if we go lift weights at
(28:39):
the gym, or do pushups, or do whatever. If we
lift that coffee cup to our mouths, if we lift
that honey bun or whatever it is, that kale and
spinach or that memosa, whatever you got in your hand
right now, I think it takes that same amount of
energy to pick up the phone and get the help
you need. Or send a text to somebody. Heck, if
(28:59):
you want to me a DM in my Instagram messages
and just get it out, Get it out. Once again,
you are loved. Checking In with Michelle Williams is a
(29:50):
production of iHeartRadio and The Black Effect. For more podcasts
from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com