September 26, 2023 • 44 mins
Michelle and Ashley are fine tuning their purpose. Ashley talks about purpose not being limited to one thing. She also shares the power of retrospect and the value of partnership in your relationship. CHECK IN to this episode if you’re questioning whether or not you’re operating in your purpose!
For more info on Ashley, visit: https://www.abf-j.com/
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Instagram: @MichelleWilliams
Twitter: @RealMichelleW
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Checking In with Michelle Williams, a production of
iHeart Radio and The Black Effect. I'm checking in, how
(00:20):
you been doing, how's your heart, how's your soul, how's
your spirit?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
How's your health? How your friends doing? How your family doing,
How y'all boo doing, How you doing? How your children doing?
Speaker 1 (00:36):
How your dog doing, How y'all pet's doing. What y'all
been doing over there? Y'all listen, I'm fine.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Biggie is fine. He's getting so big, he will be.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
He turns one October twenty third, So I'm like, do
I have a little get together for him or.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Just I don't know. Maybe I don't know. Maybe I'll
give him some I don't know. Well we'll see, we'll see,
we'll see. So that's what's been going on in my world, y'all.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Okay, okay, okay, I'm so excited because Ashley blamed Featherston Jenkins.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
She's coming up right here. I'm checking in, yoll okay, listen.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
You have seen her in Dear White People, netflix's original series.
You've seen her in an NBC's hit comedy series Grand Crew,
where she's also a producer, content creator at a proud
Howard University graduate, and she has her own podcast called
Trials to Triumph.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Please welcome everybody. Ashley blamed Featherston Jenkins.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Hi, sis, Hi beautiful, We had got right into it.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Are you doing all right?
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Thank you for asking? You know what I am. Today's
a good day. My heart's in a good place. I'm
feeling good, a good mood. So today's a good day.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
That's so good.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
I was talking to someone at Sarah Jakes's conference Women Involved,
which was phenomenal, and I asked them how they were doing,
and they gave me their real answer, and I was like,
that's amazing that we can like give the real answer.
How have you grown to that place where well, maybe
(02:26):
if you feel safe enough to you'll be like, man,
I'm struggling, you know, but how did you even get
there to where you could possibly be like man, I'm.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Good or yeah, it's been a struggle today. How have
you gotten to that house?
Speaker 3 (02:40):
Yeah, that's such a good question. My friends, they held
a mirror up to me. I am like notoriously known
or I used to be. I've grown out of this,
so I'm quite proud of myself. But I used to
be someone that no matter what was going on. I
would say I'm fine, fine, I'm fine, but based on
(03:02):
my demeanor or my disposition or just them knowing me,
they would know that I actually was not fine, and
they would, you know. Finally, I don't remember which friend
it was, one of them was like, hey, when you
say that you're fine, in a high pitched tone, I
just want you to know that we know that you're
not fine. And honestly, I think it was me getting
called out on it that made me say, you know what,
(03:25):
I just need to be more honest about it. And
what I learned through that is that they loved me still.
I can say I'm not fine, I'm actually really sad,
or I'm actually not in a talking mood, or I'm
scared or something. I don't know, I'm just not in
the mood to talk whatever, and they're like, okay, but
we're here when you are. I think that there was
(03:46):
something about me that felt like I had to say
that I was fine because people always expected me to
be fine, and if I weren't fine, then maybe people
wouldn't enjoy that version of Ashley as much. But the
truth is we are all complex in that way. None
of us are always fine all the time. So yeah,
I'm grateful to my friends for that. And so now
(04:07):
you know, like I said, with you as my friend
asking me, how am I feeling today, I'm in a
great space, but I one thousand percent what I felt
comfortable enough to say since I'm struggling today.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
You know, Listen, I'm so glad that spaces are being
created and that you have friends. And we don't talk
like that, but if you had to, we'll often we'll
comment or send each other a message.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
But just know that, like you're right, like to get
vulnerable with somebody, I'm grateful to know that space has
been created for you to do that. How do you
think you are able to create space for others to
be truthful with you?
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Because people want to know what do you mean create
a safe space? Well, let's talk about how we create
safe spaces for others versus is how we're feeling.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
They need to create space for me.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, I actually just commented, Uh, there's
a hummingbird outside of my window. Always comes whenever I'm
doing a podcast. It's very like I need to like
look it up, and that's why I'm just looking at
the windows a reminder. Yeah, every time I'm in here,
the humming bird comes in business.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Let me looking it up.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
I'm present, let me be present.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
They all have a meaning, but we'll look it up.
But I actually just did a post about this on
my Instagram. I uh received, which I'm sure you get
sometimes too, but it was somebody who had commented about
my podcast Trials to Triumphs and was basically like, I
(05:44):
like the podcast and like I think that actually is
cool and whatever, but like, I don't know, I just
feel like she just kind of like talks about her
story too, and like aren't we just here to like
listen to her guests? And I wasn't at all offended
by the comment, but it made it very clear to
me that the person who made the comment didn't understand
(06:07):
my purpose, my gift, or the purpose of my podcast.
And I think the way that I'm able to create
a safe space is because I'm sharing too. I'm not
asking of you what I'm unwilling to also give. I'm
not you know what I mean, Like, that's that's not
what we're doing. That's not at all what you do either.
(06:29):
Michelle and I think we really understand each other in
that way. So oftentimes, like you do too, I get
guests who come on and are like, I've never shared
something like this before, or I can't believe I'm saying that,
And it's because they know that I'm in the same
vulnerable space right there with them. I'm not. And what
(06:52):
I said in my in my Instagram post is like,
I just want to be clear and tell people I'm
not a journalist. I'm not. I'm a human who likes
to have wonderful, deep, inspiring, honest conversations with other humans
and what we find from that is always a beautiful discovery.
But oftentimes journalists who we need. We need journalists right.
(07:14):
Journalists are very important, but their job is to get
the hard hitting answers, to get the facts, to stay
very stoic so that you know that's not what we do.
I'm having conversations with people I want to talk to,
and what comes out of that as a blessing.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
And conversations are reciprocal. It's you sharing something, it's me responding,
and if I have something to share that might be.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Relevant or complimentary, I will share. Now.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
I was gonna say, when she said that comment, the
person that made the comment, do they have a journalism
background or something like that, because if I'm not mistaken,
journalists are taught don't inject your personal stories or feelings
into matter.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
But I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
I love when Oprah Winfrey can inject a personal story, whether.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
It's a trial or something triumphant, and she's checking in.
You see, I'll piece piece our stuff together.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
I love when Tamra Hall, who we know, has that
show and she is a journalist, but I love every
now and then she'll share something about her son.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Or something like that. I think it's so endearing because
it brings.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
That person to human form that hey, they're experiencing life
with us as well. So I'm glad that you were
able to have that perspective and not change how you
do what it.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Is that you do. So thank you for that.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
I've got to tell everybody you were in my video
Believe in Me, and I told Angela, you'll see it's
relevant entertainment.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
I said, y'all, she was so good. He plays my
therapist in a video called Believe In Me, and I
believe I was able to talk about it on your podcast,
but I have yet to share the story on mine.
And I was like Angela, she was so good. She
made me cry.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
You played my therapist, and I think in the video
I'm saying the words of my song believe in Me.
But it was the way you looked me in my eye.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
I felt seen.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
I feel like, maybe I know I was going through
some healing stuff as well at that time, but I
felt like you created space for me to just have
a real cry. That wasn't nothing. The director didn't say, Michelle, make.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Sure you cry. That was a real moment.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
So thank you for those healing tears back in two thousand,
whatever year that was thirteen or fourteen.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Oh my gosh, it was like ten years.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Ten years ago, close to ten years.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
Yes, thank you, thank you for that. Thank you for
that was like a dream come true. I was like,
what Michelle Williams supposed to be to play her therapist
and hurt. This can't like am I reading Wait a minute,
maybe am I reading this properly? But you know, in
when I look back at that, we both got what
(10:18):
we needed right. You needed a good try and I
needed to be around inspiration. I needed to be around
somebody who inspires me, who reminds me that I'm on
the right path, And that's what you did and have
continued to do. You did before I met you, then
you did it in the moment, and you've continue to
do it over the past past ten years. So thank
you for that. You're a little it.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
And I was like, y'all, she was such a good actress,
just you know, in the video, and so I am
so excited about watching your journey, your journey, and.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
It's like, I'm a proud mom.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
And it's not that because you were in my video
that that was something so low, but I'm like.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
A.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Yeah, so I speak from from that place, from your
of your journey, which has been absolutely amazing. Did you
see yourself on this trajectory of acting and having such Yeah,
I have no problem saying what her podcast as well.
(11:23):
We are content and and insecure. So how did you see.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Yourself doing everything that you're doing?
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Oh my goodness, Yes, and no, Michelle, you know like
I did. Yeah. So I I am one of the
the the lucky few who who knew what they wanted
to do from a very young age. So like as
soon as I could really like walk and talk, and
people are asking me what my future aspirations are, I'm
(11:52):
saying I want to be an actress. I want to
be on TV. I want to perform like that was
always the goal, and my parents supported me my whole
life through that, you know what I mean. I started
acting professionally at fourteen and had been in voice lessons
and taking all the dance and all the theater, and
I went to Howard University and got a degree in
musical theater. So like I was always working toward the goal.
(12:15):
I moved to Los Angeles at twenty two, eight months
after I graduated from Howard. But the reason I say
yes and no is because you know, if it were
up to me, I would have, like I thought I
was gonna have like seventeen Emmys by now, like probably
an Oscar, you know, Tony Money. Yeah, Like I would
(12:36):
have been like Egott, all right, you know.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
What I mean.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
So so I say that to say that the journey
has not at all looked like what I thought it
would like, not at all. It's been far harder, far
more arduous than I thought it would be. But I
talk a lot about this on my podcast. But I
(12:59):
have such an appreciate for retrospect because I think it's
so important to be able to look back over your
life and say, that's why that wasn't supposed to happen.
That was the pivot I needed to take here, or
you know, even I look back like I wanted to.
You know, there were times that when I'm growing up
where I wanted my parents to like pack up the
(13:19):
house and like when I was a teenager moved to
La so I could be like Kyla Pratt. I wanted
to be Kyla Pratt when I was like in high
school and my parents were like, no, we're not moving
our whole lives to California. You're finishing high school and
you're going to college. And it might sound like a
small thing, but like Howard changed my life. My best
(13:40):
friends in the entire world I met at Howard, you
know what I mean, Like it's I needed that experience,
the type of network I have, my sorority sisters, so
many things that the things that I learned, the lesson
all of it so much. I got in those four
year years and had my parents done what I wanted
(14:02):
them to do, which is also like what teenager can
tell their parents what she wants their parents to do.
So I was already somewhat delusional, but I'm so happy that,
like that's what my life was. And to go back
to how I said yes and no. You know I
have a podcast, right, and I love being a podcast host,
but I didn't know that I would be doing it
(14:24):
because it wasn't a dream that I could have dreamt
because it wasn't a thing.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Right.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
So it's one of those dreams and one of these
opportunities that has taken me by surprise. And then I
was like, oh God, you always intended this for me.
This is this actually feels very much so in the pocket.
And it's been really nice also to see the doors
that podcasting has opened up for the rest of my
(14:50):
career and we'll continue to open up. So it's never
the way you necessarily want it to be, but it's
the way it has to be in order for you
to fulfill your purpose.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
That's what I believe.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
I feel like you have such an amazing perspective on
when things don't happen the way you thought they would,
you dreamed them to be. But you know, okay, I'm
I'm in the place where I'm supposed to be at
this time. It's kind of healthy, kind of mature.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
Thank you. I guess I never looked at it like that.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
It's kind of healthy, mature. There's no entitlement, there's no ball.
I have a degree from Howard University of Musical Theory.
I'm supposed to have this. I'm supposed to do this' No,
you're not in total control of your life, and it
seems that you know who is in control.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Yes, ultimately, Yes, not at all confused about that.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
By the way, I wanted you to know if you
wanted to know what sighting a humming bird is.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
H Yes, I want to know, just for.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
Y'all context, in case you're tuning in a little later,
you're fast forwarded or something. Ashley, she kept peering out
of her window because she said, every time I do
a podcast, I see a humming bird.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
So Angela sit she sends us.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
What a hummingbird is, it says to some citing a
humming bird signals that challenging times are over and healing
can begin as a as a spiritual symbol, to some,
a humming bird means that the spirit of.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
A loved one is near. The biblical meaning.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Can represent faith and hope, as the sight of a
flying bird and flapping its wings exudes an image of.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Precision that reflects the magnificence of.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
God nowhere now ashly, if you want to refer to
it right now, you click that thing that say chat
and read it because we can discuss this child. Did
anything out to you a lot?
Speaker 3 (17:02):
Actually, you don't.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Have to go into details if it's personal stuff.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
But no, no, no, no, we just talked about that. I'm
comfortable and it's a vulnerable place. No, no, no, So
this is.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Comb in her skin.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Cozy. Yeah, I know, we're all still just on the high.
I know my husband and I talk every day.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
How do we interject that in humming? I know it?
Speaker 3 (17:27):
It applies to everything. Every time the hummingbird comes, I
first think of my Nana. I've always thought of her,
who passed away in twenty nineteen December twenty nineteen, but
I always I always feel like it's her. But the
the other thing is that I think it's a reminder
(17:47):
that I'm right where I'm supposed to be, Like I
am my podcast, when I'm sharing my story on other podcasts,
it is in alignment with my purpose. I am in
the pocket, I am doing the right thing. It is
a higher calling on my life that I am fulfilling,
you know, like it it reminds me that I'm in alignment,
(18:09):
is what I'm trying to say. And I think that's
kind of what this is what it's saying basically like
and also it's a reminder too, like it says the
precision that reflects the magnificence of God, like God is
always in everything that I do. Like it's that reminder
He's in everything, and don't don't forget it. I'm here,
(18:29):
I'm in it. I called you to do this, this
is what I want you to do. You were on
assignment like that, That's what it reminds me of.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Oh, and on assignment because you said you never projected
predicted that you would be doing a podcast, so maybe
to me also, the humming bird is like, you're doing
what you're supposed to be doing. So any type yes,
you doubting, what is I'm gonna send this humming bird
to let you know I'm omnipotent, I'm nipresent.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
That's you know what, Michelle. I needed to hear that
because I'll be honest, Like my podcast, this was my idea,
like right, I created the podcast that I wanted and
it was an opportunity that I sought out. But I
think that once it materialized, I started having feelings of like,
but wait, I'm an actor, though, like what are people
(19:16):
going to think that I'm doing this this podcast? And
are they going to be like, but shouldn't she just
be on TV? Like I started, I started feeling like
maybe it was incongruent with my purpose, like maybe maybe
this is a departure that like isn't going to help
me but might hurt me in some way. And I
(19:39):
was wrong. I've been wrong obviously. And you know, Daryl,
my husband, said something to me not long ago that
like really really spoke to me, and I was like
crying and complaining about like opportunities that had like you know,
getting so close to so many jobs and them not
working out, and I just it was a it was
a season where not even just a day, it was
(20:01):
a season where like I was not okay, and I
was really sad, and I was really defeated, and I
was really overwhelmed with like what is my life? What
is my career? What am I doing? I work so hard?
Like why do I feel like it's not materializing in
the way that like I really wanted to? And I
was like, you know, isn't this my purpose and he
(20:23):
was like he calls me bash. He was like, bash,
I I think you have it wrong a little bit.
And I was like, I got like, what do you
mean I have my purpose wrong? Like what are you
gonna tell me? Like? It was kind of like that
type of thing, and he very kindly and gently. It's
probably one of my favorite I've known him for almost
fourteen years. It's one of my favorite memories of us
(20:44):
because I thought it was so of God. It's such
a message from God through my husband to me. But
it also was such a manifestation of like, you know me,
you know the heart of me. And what he said
was he said, actually, I don't think your purpose to
be an actress. Your purpose is to inspire. And there's
(21:06):
going to be a multitude of different places that you're
able to do that. Sometimes it's on screen, Sometimes it's
behind a mic on a podcast. Sometimes it's speaking to students.
Sometimes you know, there's sometimes it's just when you share
a nugget with someone you meet at the CBS, whatever
it is, that's why you're here. And I was like,
(21:27):
you know what, and it hit me like a ton
of bricks, Like a ton of bricks. He was right.
And so again, if my purpose is to inspire, if
my purpose is to always make it clear that I
am on assignment from God, right, then my podcast, being
a guest on your podcast is very much so in
(21:48):
alignment with the whole reason why I'm here. And I
was just really grateful for that reminder.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Yes, no way, admit it because I'm gonna get to relationship.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Said a minute, but I can't help, but ask now,
were you low key like, oh you right? Oh I
hate you?
Speaker 2 (22:06):
You're right? I know I would have been.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Yeah, because I had to admit a lot. It required
me to admit things to myself that maybe I had been,
like blocking blessings because I didn't think it was my
purpose or not or not embracing other talents and sectors
to my life and facets of my creativity because it didn't.
(22:33):
It wasn't It wasn't a traditional actor on a TV
show or on stage, like you know, it wasn't that.
But like I'm a multi hyphen it. I do a
lot of things. I'm not one thing. And you know, Michelle,
I realized that there was a box that I felt
like I was. I was. I felt boxed in Remember
I was telling you this this season of my life,
I just it wasn't a good season, and it was
(22:54):
because I felt boxed in. But I had to admit
to myself, I put myself in the box. The industry
didn't put me in a box, didn't know nobody else
put me in the box but myself. And now I
understand that this box that I'm in has no lid,
has no I'm not in a box, but the box
has an infinite amount of room. I'm not boxing myself
(23:17):
in anymore. And I think because of that, the blessings
are flowing in a different way.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Well, when you said you were blocking your blessings, it's
a possibility we don't know that we are also operating
in a state of not being in a state of gratitude.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
You know.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
It's like, so it took your husband to be like,
wait a minute, maybe you're meant to inspire in so
many ways, so you get the perspective You're like, Lord, my.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Bad, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
I'm so grateful for all the ways you allow Ashley
me such a creative person, to inspire.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
And I got a box story for you being in
a box.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
If y'all don't mine to the person that trolled her
the other day. Do you mind if I tell my
story about being in a box?
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Is it okay?
Speaker 3 (24:09):
We want I want to hear it. We want to
hear it, okay.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Because suns it might bless you too. Cool. Okay, here
we go. So I was on a plane coming back
from an award show. Okay, I'll said.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
It was a gospel award show, and I was, oh,
my God, tears flowing down my eyes.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
I remember my.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Head is laying against the window because I felt rejected,
and Babe the Holy Spirit said, why are you crying
about a box that I never put you in? I
wiped them tears. I said, my bad, I'm sorry. I
was just playing. Let me look at my calendar, maybe
my cycle was coming. But we look at so many
(24:58):
things like, yeah, you did your job, your assignment here
to inspire, But don't just put yourself this is my
earphone box. Every there's so much more outside of this
box that we limit ourselves to. And we overhear crying,
tears and everything about a box that.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
He never put us in.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
That's the thing, like who puts you in the box?
You have to be honest about that, and oftentimes you
put yourself in the box, bloop, and that you have
to reckon.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
With that, and did and did, and now you got
to figure out, well, why did you put yourself in
the box? Is it fears and securities are feeling like
you should only be over here right now and not you.
But I know even the root of that is I
remember being told, you know, you need to stick to
one thing, you need to stick to one thing.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Yeah, yeah, and.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Was that when was that? Do you remember when that was?
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (25:53):
This was in the early two thousands. This was so
so many years ago.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
And I think the desires that I had back then,
I'm walking in them now because I'm like, we would
have never seen at a time in the industry.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
You better be doing multiple things because the music industry
is different. You better be doing some other things.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
You better start being great and taking classes and be
an experts in other areas. Now, I try to make
it all make sense, you know, with my purpose and assignment.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
You know, I wanted to all make sense. You know.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
I'm like, Okay, that's why she's okay the podcast, you know.
But then again, I have to check myself to everything
that we do sometimes is not meant to understood until
the fruit of it whom.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
Yeah, sometimes you just have to keep putting one foot
in front of the other and say, this feels wonky.
I don't know what I'm doing. But you know, when
you have that feeling inside of this spirit where you
know you're in the right place and you know you're
doing what you're supposed to be doing, you just have
to be patient and like you said, have a really
strong gratitude practice in the midst of.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
It all, have a really strong gratitude process trying to
be happy in all things. And I definitely want to
discuss that word happiness because you are sharing that happiness
don't always come easily naturally, especially as a black woman.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Yeah, can you share about you saying that? Can you
share about that? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (27:33):
Like, I don't know. The older I get, the more
I realize that, like life and everything in life is cyclical,
you can only really appreciate happy days when you've had
really sad ones. So I learned to because you have
(27:54):
to have that juxtaposition, right, Like anyone that only knows
one thing doesn't have the life perspective. So you know,
those are the people that when one bad thing happens,
they're like freaking out because they don't have any there's
no resiliency. And you know there's people who there's people
who yeah, there's people who fight, uh not fight. There's
(28:17):
people I think who feel like but but you shouldn't
have to be resilient, like in life, you shouldn't have
to have a resiliency. And I disagree. I think resiliency
is what builds character. I think you need some bounce back.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Yeah, like you have to.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
Have a buoyancy to get you through life. Like you
can't just be like swimming through like that's that's impossible.
There's there's waves, there's a tide, there's currents, there's a storm, like,
there's all sorts of things.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Babe, we need to be like them trees.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
You know when the storm hit that tree, be lean
and you think it's no break that thing, ain't it?
And then in the perk up, then that storm it'd
be it'd be it'd be swaying it.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
All right, it doesn't break, but like what what what
happens though? Right, there's still might have lost some branches,
might be some leaving.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Which is necessary.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
So yeah, there's pruning there, shedding that's happening. You still
had to to shake some stuff off of you. But
you you're standing in the sunshine after the storm. Right,
that's good, you know what I mean? You're still growing,
your roots are still in the ground, You're still planted,
and so yeah, so I feel like, yeah, happiness isn't
(29:39):
always a part of our existence, and that's okay. It's
what am I doing with the days where I'm not happy?
Am I believing that there's a happy day that is
still coming? Or am I or am I sitting in it?
Or am I sitting and wallowing in it and believing
that this is my life?
Speaker 1 (29:57):
What do you say to the people who be like
you don't have to be able to say something like that.
You can only be in a place of healing and
be on a journey of being self aware to be
like to have that perspective.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
I would say, hmm, that's a good question. I think.
I would say, you.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Don't understand what I'm going through. How do you not
have empathy?
Speaker 3 (30:21):
Well, I would say I do have empathy, a very
empathetic person, And I would say I am rooting for you.
But I would also say, like I said, we can
go back to retrospect. There's not one person in the
world who has had all bad days. That's not how
(30:42):
it works. There are some of us who have had
far more bad days than others. That is a fact.
But again, if we go back to gratitude, Michelle, there's
always something to be grateful for. My gratitude practice includes
me putting something in my gratitude jar, even if I
feel like I don't have something. Sometimes it's like my
(31:04):
nail pols didn't chip. Sometimes it's I got my dream job.
Sometimes it's there was food on the table today, but
there's something the sunshine. I like the way the sun
felt on my face today. So what I would say
is like, look back over your life and I actually
(31:26):
think there has been a time or a day or
a moment that you were happy, and like hold on
to that and remember that if you had it, then
you can have it again. But so much of life
is perspective. I really really believe that. And like the
mental agility, which is the toughest part, and I know
so many of us struggle with that. It's not easy.
(31:47):
It's not easy to work through and fight through depression.
Like I would never sit here and act like it
is it is an easy thing to do. But what
I will say is that it does take commitment. Think
about the times, Michelle, when you were at your lowest.
The only way you got through it is because you
(32:09):
at one point decided you were committed to doing so
That's right, and I would say the same for myself.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
Yeah, commitment.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
And brasilience, all of that. Yeah, you know, and that
builds strength. We feel like we just go get some
strength the Popeye Sailorman Spinach. That ain't how strength we're
you know, got you gotta train to get this strength.
So training is being committed. That's part of my training,
my strength training, getting up every morning.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
Yeah, you don't want to being around the right people,
Like listen, somebody listening to this podcast, This message is
for you. Sometimes the weight and the brunt of what
you're feeling is not your own. It's a projection from
(33:05):
someone else in your orbit, in your circle that has
latched on to you. Have you ever been have you
ever felt like or been in a time in your
life when you felt like, I don't know, I just
feel kind of like down. I don't really know why,
Like I just I don't know, I don't really feel
like myself. There's been a few times in my life
(33:27):
when I felt that way, and you know, I'm realizing,
like I don't really know why I feel that way.
Like I things are pretty okay, and I took stock
of the people around me, or of someone around me,
and was like, oh, this isn't mine, this ain't mine,
this is theirs, and I need to kindly give it back,
support them through it, pray for them. But this is
(33:50):
not mine. I'm feeling I And sometimes it comes from
the closest relationships. Sometimes it's family, sometimes it's our best friends.
Sometimes it's coworkers, sometimes it's a job, you know, whatever
it is. But like you have to take stock of
a friend of mineset this to me recently that sometimes
you have to take a moment and assess what's yours
(34:11):
and what isn't yours, and what isn't yours give it
back to where it came from, because we ain't got
time going to be carrying around what's ours, what somebody else's,
what's the person that gave it to them? Like we
don't we got enough going on with ourselves.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
But like you said, though I can support you, Oh
but I can, I'm not going to carry the whole load. No,
because there's some work that you need to do that
you may be afraid to do or.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
You don't know how to do it. I'll help you.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
You know, let's find a therapist of constantly together, let's
do some breath work or something. But you're so right,
and it is to encourage that person listening. Maybe there
is some work that needs to be done that you're
afraid to do, and it's like, no, you do not
have to be afraid.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
You don't have to be afraid.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Speaking of close relationships, you celebrating your wedding anniversary with
your husband Darryl, who sweet fully was able to help
you change perspective on being inspired. Do you think that
y'all's dynamics and everything about the word like amazing, beautiful?
(35:33):
And do you have something to impart into couples who
might be struggling and what they can maybe do.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
To strengthen the bond.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Now, I do want to say that everybody don't show ashlely,
Everybody don't show the moment where they feet might stink,
they got on your nerves, or we might have got
in an argument today, or you might but you share
with us like, Okay, this wasn't easy.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
Can you impart some strength to people like we hold
this to work.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
It's just a struggle because you said, y'ap been knowing
each other fourteen years.
Speaker 3 (36:06):
Yeah, and we've only been married for two, so I
mean it's been a long it's been a long it's
been a long journey. We met when we were very young,
we met when we were twenty two, and then I
always say like we turned thirty and were like, what
are we doing? We're in love with each other and
we've been together ever since. But I think the wisdom
that I would impart is that if you were in
(36:30):
a marriage and a relationship that you really really want
to work, and you're struggling to find ways as to
how focus or or return, try your best to return
to partnership. And the reason I say partnership first is
(36:51):
because what's changed my life about my marriage is that
I have a partner in all things. And I think
often times when people feel stressed or strained in a
relationship is because they feel alone or single, but yet
they're in a relationship. They don't feel somewhere the partnership
(37:12):
got lost. And I think that when you return to
partnership or return to love, like one of which is
one of my favorite books by Mary and Williamson, which
is I never read that reader Return to Love by
Mary and Williamson. But a partner has your back and
does A partner sees you. A partner holds your hand
(37:39):
when you're too scared to go by yourself. A partner says,
I know you're tired, so I'll do it, and vice versa.
Like partnership is invigorating, and partnership is worth living for
and it's worth fighting for. So if you feel like
you can find that in your relationship, it's really worth
(38:00):
holding on to. And if you feel like you can't,
then maybe you never had a partner to begin with.
And that's okay too, you know what I mean, Like
understanding that, Like sometimes we have to come to an
a realization of like maybe we were never really partners,
maybe we were lovers, maybe we were friends, maybe we
were but to be partnered with somebody is a real blessing.
(38:21):
And that's what I'm most grateful for and what we
really prioritize on a daily basis. And let me tell
you something, you never know what lies ahead in life.
In the past two years we've been married, there's no
way we could have gotten through all the things. If
we weren't partnered, like even the strike, I have a partner,
(38:44):
we could have never predicted that my entire industry would
just be completely shut down a work stoppage. If I
didn't have someone who, like I said, was holding my
hand and is like standing side by side with me
and saying we're in this together, I think I would
be in a much different place right now with something
that again was on when we got married in twenty
(39:06):
twenty one. We didn't know if this was gonna happen, Like,
there's no way to predict that. We've you know, we've
dealt with life altering medical diagnoses. If we weren't partnered
in it, then maybe we wouldn't have the strength to
work through the medical diagnoses. Like, yeah, it's partnership that's healing.
(39:26):
It's partnership that's everything. And to me, partnership is what's
worth partnering your life with somebody because that's ultimately what
you're doing.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
Absolutely two whole people coming together. It ain't half a
person like the whole fifty to fifty no.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
No no, no no no.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
You come in home, partners come in home, and that
saying you ain't gonna come in with baggage or stuff
that you're still gonna be, you know, journeying through. But
it's like, man, can we do life?
Speaker 2 (39:53):
Somebody told me and helped me instead of be like
are we gonna ever get married? No? Can we do
life with each other?
Speaker 1 (40:02):
That's what partners do because when we say get married,
we really talking about the wedding, which is a couple
of hours for that day.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
But you gotta do life together.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
That is an ultimately marriage partnership, meaning you've chosen someone
that you feel like you can ultimately partner with, and
then the next layer is someone that you've sent I
can partner with you to do life with you.
Speaker 3 (40:27):
Yeah, And it's funny listening to you say what you
just said. It's making me think. Before I got married,
I was always like I never understood why some people
would make the choice to say partner and not husband
or wife or spouse or whatever. Some people are very
like big on saying partner, and like I really get
(40:50):
it to me, like I always say my husband, but
like there's a vibe to saying like my partner. Like
it's making it very clear this is not just this,
this is more than just like the title that you
have that's on your marriage license. This is like, this
is my partner in all things, like not not just
my husband, just my wife, not just my spouse. This
(41:11):
is my partner. And so I really just hearing you
say that, it made me like really understand the significance
and the weight that's saying someone is saying someone as
your partner.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
Holds that's so good.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
Yeah, And it's when it's a partnership, even corporations, when
you do partnerships or if I partner with someone, it's
like you do everything that you can to protect it.
This partnership, we have to we do everything that we
can to protect it. Thank you Ashley so much for
giving us that, Jim, and I'm excited you guys are
(41:48):
welcome to DM myself or maybe even DM or her
to even share tell her how that gem that she
dropped is going to strengthen your relationship with the person
that you love or anything else that she has shared.
And I'm excited for your podcast, which y'all it's on
the Oprah Winfrey Network podcast network, by the way, and
(42:10):
so congratulations on that. And again I'm so thankful to
have had you on checking in today.
Speaker 3 (42:18):
Thank you so much, sus. You know, I just love
an adore you, Michelle. I'm so grateful for you and
you all like. Check out Michelle's episode on Trials to Triumphs.
It's a great episode. It's fantastic. We have new episodes
every Monday. Yeah, but this is just always a joy.
I just love chatting. I could chat with you all
day long. So I know.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
It's amazing that your new episodes come out on Mondays
and mine comes out on Tuesdays, so we're not conflicting.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
So you guys are just fine.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
Check out her podcast Trials to Triumph and all the other.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
Amazing projects that she has her hand to Ashley, thank
you for checking in.
Speaker 3 (42:55):
Thanks sus, See you next time, right.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
I love Ashley. She is just she's awesome. She's awesome.
She's awesome.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
Now, y'all go back and look at my video before
the song I had called Believe in Me.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
She plays my therapist in that video.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
Y'all go back and look at it, and I hope
that she has said something that just sparks some creativideo
or something she says that lets you know everything's gonna
be alright and be on the lookout. Maybe a hummingbird
will fly your way.
Speaker 4 (43:28):
All right, I love you bye.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
Checking In with Michelle Williams is a production of iHeartRadio
and The Black Effect. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit
the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
Welcome to Checking In with Michelle Williams, a production of
iHeart Radio and The Black Effect. I'm checking in, how
(00:20):
you been doing, how's your heart, how's your soul, how's
your spirit?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
How's your health? How your friends doing? How your family doing,
How y'all boo doing, How you doing? How your children doing?
Speaker 1 (00:36):
How your dog doing, How y'all pet's doing. What y'all
been doing over there? Y'all listen, I'm fine.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Biggie is fine. He's getting so big, he will be.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
He turns one October twenty third, So I'm like, do
I have a little get together for him or.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Just I don't know. Maybe I don't know. Maybe I'll
give him some I don't know. Well we'll see, we'll see,
we'll see. So that's what's been going on in my world, y'all.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
Okay, okay, okay, I'm so excited because Ashley blamed Featherston Jenkins.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
She's coming up right here. I'm checking in, yoll okay, listen.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
You have seen her in Dear White People, netflix's original series.
You've seen her in an NBC's hit comedy series Grand Crew,
where she's also a producer, content creator at a proud
Howard University graduate, and she has her own podcast called
Trials to Triumph.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Please welcome everybody. Ashley blamed Featherston Jenkins.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Hi, sis, Hi beautiful, We had got right into it.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Are you doing all right?
Speaker 3 (01:52):
Thank you for asking? You know what I am. Today's
a good day. My heart's in a good place. I'm
feeling good, a good mood. So today's a good day.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
That's so good.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
I was talking to someone at Sarah Jakes's conference Women Involved,
which was phenomenal, and I asked them how they were doing,
and they gave me their real answer, and I was like,
that's amazing that we can like give the real answer.
How have you grown to that place where well, maybe
(02:26):
if you feel safe enough to you'll be like, man,
I'm struggling, you know, but how did you even get
there to where you could possibly be like man, I'm.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Good or yeah, it's been a struggle today. How have
you gotten to that house?
Speaker 3 (02:40):
Yeah, that's such a good question. My friends, they held
a mirror up to me. I am like notoriously known
or I used to be. I've grown out of this,
so I'm quite proud of myself. But I used to
be someone that no matter what was going on. I
would say I'm fine, fine, I'm fine, but based on
(03:02):
my demeanor or my disposition or just them knowing me,
they would know that I actually was not fine, and
they would, you know. Finally, I don't remember which friend
it was, one of them was like, hey, when you
say that you're fine, in a high pitched tone, I
just want you to know that we know that you're
not fine. And honestly, I think it was me getting
called out on it that made me say, you know what,
(03:25):
I just need to be more honest about it. And
what I learned through that is that they loved me still.
I can say I'm not fine, I'm actually really sad,
or I'm actually not in a talking mood, or I'm
scared or something. I don't know, I'm just not in
the mood to talk whatever, and they're like, okay, but
we're here when you are. I think that there was
(03:46):
something about me that felt like I had to say
that I was fine because people always expected me to
be fine, and if I weren't fine, then maybe people
wouldn't enjoy that version of Ashley as much. But the
truth is we are all complex in that way. None
of us are always fine all the time. So yeah,
I'm grateful to my friends for that. And so now
(04:07):
you know, like I said, with you as my friend
asking me, how am I feeling today, I'm in a
great space, but I one thousand percent what I felt
comfortable enough to say since I'm struggling today.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
You know, Listen, I'm so glad that spaces are being
created and that you have friends. And we don't talk
like that, but if you had to, we'll often we'll
comment or send each other a message.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
But just know that, like you're right, like to get
vulnerable with somebody, I'm grateful to know that space has
been created for you to do that. How do you
think you are able to create space for others to
be truthful with you?
Speaker 1 (04:53):
Because people want to know what do you mean create
a safe space? Well, let's talk about how we create
safe spaces for others versus is how we're feeling.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
They need to create space for me.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, I actually just commented, Uh, there's
a hummingbird outside of my window. Always comes whenever I'm
doing a podcast. It's very like I need to like
look it up, and that's why I'm just looking at
the windows a reminder. Yeah, every time I'm in here,
the humming bird comes in business.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Let me looking it up.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
I'm present, let me be present.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
They all have a meaning, but we'll look it up.
But I actually just did a post about this on
my Instagram. I uh received, which I'm sure you get
sometimes too, but it was somebody who had commented about
my podcast Trials to Triumphs and was basically like, I
(05:44):
like the podcast and like I think that actually is
cool and whatever, but like, I don't know, I just
feel like she just kind of like talks about her
story too, and like aren't we just here to like
listen to her guests? And I wasn't at all offended
by the comment, but it made it very clear to
me that the person who made the comment didn't understand
(06:07):
my purpose, my gift, or the purpose of my podcast.
And I think the way that I'm able to create
a safe space is because I'm sharing too. I'm not
asking of you what I'm unwilling to also give. I'm
not you know what I mean, Like, that's that's not
what we're doing. That's not at all what you do either.
(06:29):
Michelle and I think we really understand each other in
that way. So oftentimes, like you do too, I get
guests who come on and are like, I've never shared
something like this before, or I can't believe I'm saying that,
And it's because they know that I'm in the same
vulnerable space right there with them. I'm not. And what
(06:52):
I said in my in my Instagram post is like,
I just want to be clear and tell people I'm
not a journalist. I'm not. I'm a human who likes
to have wonderful, deep, inspiring, honest conversations with other humans
and what we find from that is always a beautiful discovery.
But oftentimes journalists who we need. We need journalists right.
(07:14):
Journalists are very important, but their job is to get
the hard hitting answers, to get the facts, to stay
very stoic so that you know that's not what we do.
I'm having conversations with people I want to talk to,
and what comes out of that as a blessing.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
And conversations are reciprocal. It's you sharing something, it's me responding,
and if I have something to share that might be.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Relevant or complimentary, I will share. Now.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
I was gonna say, when she said that comment, the
person that made the comment, do they have a journalism
background or something like that, because if I'm not mistaken,
journalists are taught don't inject your personal stories or feelings
into matter.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
But I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
I love when Oprah Winfrey can inject a personal story, whether.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
It's a trial or something triumphant, and she's checking in.
You see, I'll piece piece our stuff together.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
I love when Tamra Hall, who we know, has that
show and she is a journalist, but I love every
now and then she'll share something about her son.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Or something like that. I think it's so endearing because
it brings.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
That person to human form that hey, they're experiencing life
with us as well. So I'm glad that you were
able to have that perspective and not change how you
do what it.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Is that you do. So thank you for that.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
I've got to tell everybody you were in my video
Believe in Me, and I told Angela, you'll see it's
relevant entertainment.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
I said, y'all, she was so good. He plays my
therapist in a video called Believe In Me, and I
believe I was able to talk about it on your podcast,
but I have yet to share the story on mine.
And I was like Angela, she was so good. She
made me cry.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
You played my therapist, and I think in the video
I'm saying the words of my song believe in Me.
But it was the way you looked me in my eye.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
I felt seen.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
I feel like, maybe I know I was going through
some healing stuff as well at that time, but I
felt like you created space for me to just have
a real cry. That wasn't nothing. The director didn't say, Michelle, make.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Sure you cry. That was a real moment.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
So thank you for those healing tears back in two thousand,
whatever year that was thirteen or fourteen.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Oh my gosh, it was like ten years.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Ten years ago, close to ten years.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
Yes, thank you, thank you for that. Thank you for
that was like a dream come true. I was like,
what Michelle Williams supposed to be to play her therapist
and hurt. This can't like am I reading Wait a minute,
maybe am I reading this properly? But you know, in
when I look back at that, we both got what
(10:18):
we needed right. You needed a good try and I
needed to be around inspiration. I needed to be around
somebody who inspires me, who reminds me that I'm on
the right path, And that's what you did and have
continued to do. You did before I met you, then
you did it in the moment, and you've continue to
do it over the past past ten years. So thank
you for that. You're a little it.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
And I was like, y'all, she was such a good actress,
just you know, in the video, and so I am
so excited about watching your journey, your journey, and.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
It's like, I'm a proud mom.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
And it's not that because you were in my video
that that was something so low, but I'm like.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
A.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Yeah, so I speak from from that place, from your
of your journey, which has been absolutely amazing. Did you
see yourself on this trajectory of acting and having such Yeah,
I have no problem saying what her podcast as well.
(11:23):
We are content and and insecure. So how did you see.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Yourself doing everything that you're doing?
Speaker 3 (11:31):
Oh my goodness, Yes, and no, Michelle, you know like
I did. Yeah. So I I am one of the
the the lucky few who who knew what they wanted
to do from a very young age. So like as
soon as I could really like walk and talk, and
people are asking me what my future aspirations are, I'm
(11:52):
saying I want to be an actress. I want to
be on TV. I want to perform like that was
always the goal, and my parents supported me my whole
life through that, you know what I mean. I started
acting professionally at fourteen and had been in voice lessons
and taking all the dance and all the theater, and
I went to Howard University and got a degree in
musical theater. So like I was always working toward the goal.
(12:15):
I moved to Los Angeles at twenty two, eight months
after I graduated from Howard. But the reason I say
yes and no is because you know, if it were
up to me, I would have, like I thought I
was gonna have like seventeen Emmys by now, like probably
an Oscar, you know, Tony Money. Yeah, Like I would
(12:36):
have been like Egott, all right, you know.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
What I mean.
Speaker 3 (12:38):
So so I say that to say that the journey
has not at all looked like what I thought it
would like, not at all. It's been far harder, far
more arduous than I thought it would be. But I
talk a lot about this on my podcast. But I
(12:59):
have such an appreciate for retrospect because I think it's
so important to be able to look back over your
life and say, that's why that wasn't supposed to happen.
That was the pivot I needed to take here, or
you know, even I look back like I wanted to.
You know, there were times that when I'm growing up
where I wanted my parents to like pack up the
(13:19):
house and like when I was a teenager moved to
La so I could be like Kyla Pratt. I wanted
to be Kyla Pratt when I was like in high
school and my parents were like, no, we're not moving
our whole lives to California. You're finishing high school and
you're going to college. And it might sound like a
small thing, but like Howard changed my life. My best
(13:40):
friends in the entire world I met at Howard, you
know what I mean, Like it's I needed that experience,
the type of network I have, my sorority sisters, so
many things that the things that I learned, the lesson
all of it so much. I got in those four
year years and had my parents done what I wanted
(14:02):
them to do, which is also like what teenager can
tell their parents what she wants their parents to do.
So I was already somewhat delusional, but I'm so happy that,
like that's what my life was. And to go back
to how I said yes and no. You know I
have a podcast, right, and I love being a podcast host,
but I didn't know that I would be doing it
(14:24):
because it wasn't a dream that I could have dreamt
because it wasn't a thing.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Right.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
So it's one of those dreams and one of these
opportunities that has taken me by surprise. And then I
was like, oh God, you always intended this for me.
This is this actually feels very much so in the pocket.
And it's been really nice also to see the doors
that podcasting has opened up for the rest of my
(14:50):
career and we'll continue to open up. So it's never
the way you necessarily want it to be, but it's
the way it has to be in order for you
to fulfill your purpose.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
That's what I believe.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
I feel like you have such an amazing perspective on
when things don't happen the way you thought they would,
you dreamed them to be. But you know, okay, I'm
I'm in the place where I'm supposed to be at
this time. It's kind of healthy, kind of mature.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
Thank you. I guess I never looked at it like that.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
It's kind of healthy, mature. There's no entitlement, there's no ball.
I have a degree from Howard University of Musical Theory.
I'm supposed to have this. I'm supposed to do this' No,
you're not in total control of your life, and it
seems that you know who is in control.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
Yes, ultimately, Yes, not at all confused about that.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
By the way, I wanted you to know if you
wanted to know what sighting a humming bird is.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
H Yes, I want to know, just for.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
Y'all context, in case you're tuning in a little later,
you're fast forwarded or something. Ashley, she kept peering out
of her window because she said, every time I do
a podcast, I see a humming bird.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
So Angela sit she sends us.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
What a hummingbird is, it says to some citing a
humming bird signals that challenging times are over and healing
can begin as a as a spiritual symbol, to some,
a humming bird means that the spirit of.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
A loved one is near. The biblical meaning.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Can represent faith and hope, as the sight of a
flying bird and flapping its wings exudes an image of.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Precision that reflects the magnificence of.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
God nowhere now ashly, if you want to refer to
it right now, you click that thing that say chat
and read it because we can discuss this child. Did
anything out to you a lot?
Speaker 3 (17:02):
Actually, you don't.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Have to go into details if it's personal stuff.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
But no, no, no, no, we just talked about that. I'm
comfortable and it's a vulnerable place. No, no, no, So
this is.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Comb in her skin.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Cozy. Yeah, I know, we're all still just on the high.
I know my husband and I talk every day.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
How do we interject that in humming? I know it?
Speaker 3 (17:27):
It applies to everything. Every time the hummingbird comes, I
first think of my Nana. I've always thought of her,
who passed away in twenty nineteen December twenty nineteen, but
I always I always feel like it's her. But the
the other thing is that I think it's a reminder
(17:47):
that I'm right where I'm supposed to be, Like I
am my podcast, when I'm sharing my story on other podcasts,
it is in alignment with my purpose. I am in
the pocket, I am doing the right thing. It is
a higher calling on my life that I am fulfilling,
you know, like it it reminds me that I'm in alignment,
(18:09):
is what I'm trying to say. And I think that's
kind of what this is what it's saying basically like
and also it's a reminder too, like it says the
precision that reflects the magnificence of God, like God is
always in everything that I do. Like it's that reminder
He's in everything, and don't don't forget it. I'm here,
(18:29):
I'm in it. I called you to do this, this
is what I want you to do. You were on
assignment like that, That's what it reminds me of.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Oh, and on assignment because you said you never projected
predicted that you would be doing a podcast, so maybe
to me also, the humming bird is like, you're doing
what you're supposed to be doing. So any type yes,
you doubting, what is I'm gonna send this humming bird
to let you know I'm omnipotent, I'm nipresent.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
That's you know what, Michelle. I needed to hear that
because I'll be honest, Like my podcast, this was my idea,
like right, I created the podcast that I wanted and
it was an opportunity that I sought out. But I
think that once it materialized, I started having feelings of like,
but wait, I'm an actor, though, like what are people
(19:16):
going to think that I'm doing this this podcast? And
are they going to be like, but shouldn't she just
be on TV? Like I started, I started feeling like
maybe it was incongruent with my purpose, like maybe maybe
this is a departure that like isn't going to help
me but might hurt me in some way. And I
(19:39):
was wrong. I've been wrong obviously. And you know, Daryl,
my husband, said something to me not long ago that
like really really spoke to me, and I was like
crying and complaining about like opportunities that had like you know,
getting so close to so many jobs and them not
working out, and I just it was a it was
a season where not even just a day, it was
(20:01):
a season where like I was not okay, and I
was really sad, and I was really defeated, and I
was really overwhelmed with like what is my life? What
is my career? What am I doing? I work so hard?
Like why do I feel like it's not materializing in
the way that like I really wanted to? And I
was like, you know, isn't this my purpose and he
(20:23):
was like he calls me bash. He was like, bash,
I I think you have it wrong a little bit.
And I was like, I got like, what do you
mean I have my purpose wrong? Like what are you
gonna tell me? Like? It was kind of like that
type of thing, and he very kindly and gently. It's
probably one of my favorite I've known him for almost
fourteen years. It's one of my favorite memories of us
(20:44):
because I thought it was so of God. It's such
a message from God through my husband to me. But
it also was such a manifestation of like, you know me,
you know the heart of me. And what he said
was he said, actually, I don't think your purpose to
be an actress. Your purpose is to inspire. And there's
(21:06):
going to be a multitude of different places that you're
able to do that. Sometimes it's on screen, Sometimes it's
behind a mic on a podcast. Sometimes it's speaking to students.
Sometimes you know, there's sometimes it's just when you share
a nugget with someone you meet at the CBS, whatever
it is, that's why you're here. And I was like,
(21:27):
you know what, and it hit me like a ton
of bricks, Like a ton of bricks. He was right.
And so again, if my purpose is to inspire, if
my purpose is to always make it clear that I
am on assignment from God, right, then my podcast, being
a guest on your podcast is very much so in
(21:48):
alignment with the whole reason why I'm here. And I
was just really grateful for that reminder.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Yes, no way, admit it because I'm gonna get to relationship.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Said a minute, but I can't help, but ask now,
were you low key like, oh you right? Oh I
hate you?
Speaker 2 (22:06):
You're right? I know I would have been.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Yeah, because I had to admit a lot. It required
me to admit things to myself that maybe I had been,
like blocking blessings because I didn't think it was my
purpose or not or not embracing other talents and sectors
to my life and facets of my creativity because it didn't.
(22:33):
It wasn't It wasn't a traditional actor on a TV
show or on stage, like you know, it wasn't that.
But like I'm a multi hyphen it. I do a
lot of things. I'm not one thing. And you know, Michelle,
I realized that there was a box that I felt
like I was. I was. I felt boxed in Remember
I was telling you this this season of my life,
I just it wasn't a good season, and it was
(22:54):
because I felt boxed in. But I had to admit
to myself, I put myself in the box. The industry
didn't put me in a box, didn't know nobody else
put me in the box but myself. And now I
understand that this box that I'm in has no lid,
has no I'm not in a box, but the box
has an infinite amount of room. I'm not boxing myself
(23:17):
in anymore. And I think because of that, the blessings
are flowing in a different way.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
Well, when you said you were blocking your blessings, it's
a possibility we don't know that we are also operating
in a state of not being in a state of gratitude.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
You know.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
It's like, so it took your husband to be like,
wait a minute, maybe you're meant to inspire in so
many ways, so you get the perspective You're like, Lord, my.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Bad, I'm sorry.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
I'm so grateful for all the ways you allow Ashley
me such a creative person, to inspire.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
And I got a box story for you being in
a box.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
If y'all don't mine to the person that trolled her
the other day. Do you mind if I tell my
story about being in a box?
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Is it okay?
Speaker 3 (24:09):
We want I want to hear it. We want to
hear it, okay.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Because suns it might bless you too. Cool. Okay, here
we go. So I was on a plane coming back
from an award show. Okay, I'll said.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
It was a gospel award show, and I was, oh,
my God, tears flowing down my eyes.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
I remember my.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Head is laying against the window because I felt rejected,
and Babe the Holy Spirit said, why are you crying
about a box that I never put you in? I
wiped them tears. I said, my bad, I'm sorry. I
was just playing. Let me look at my calendar, maybe
my cycle was coming. But we look at so many
(24:58):
things like, yeah, you did your job, your assignment here
to inspire, But don't just put yourself this is my
earphone box. Every there's so much more outside of this
box that we limit ourselves to. And we overhear crying,
tears and everything about a box that.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
He never put us in.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
That's the thing, like who puts you in the box?
You have to be honest about that, and oftentimes you
put yourself in the box, bloop, and that you have
to reckon.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
With that, and did and did, and now you got
to figure out, well, why did you put yourself in
the box? Is it fears and securities are feeling like
you should only be over here right now and not you.
But I know even the root of that is I
remember being told, you know, you need to stick to
one thing, you need to stick to one thing.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Yeah, yeah, and.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Was that when was that? Do you remember when that was?
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (25:53):
This was in the early two thousands. This was so
so many years ago.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
And I think the desires that I had back then,
I'm walking in them now because I'm like, we would
have never seen at a time in the industry.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
You better be doing multiple things because the music industry
is different. You better be doing some other things.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
You better start being great and taking classes and be
an experts in other areas. Now, I try to make
it all make sense, you know, with my purpose and assignment.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
You know, I wanted to all make sense. You know.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
I'm like, Okay, that's why she's okay the podcast, you know.
But then again, I have to check myself to everything
that we do sometimes is not meant to understood until
the fruit of it whom.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
Yeah, sometimes you just have to keep putting one foot
in front of the other and say, this feels wonky.
I don't know what I'm doing. But you know, when
you have that feeling inside of this spirit where you
know you're in the right place and you know you're
doing what you're supposed to be doing, you just have
to be patient and like you said, have a really
strong gratitude practice in the midst of.
Speaker 1 (27:06):
It all, have a really strong gratitude process trying to
be happy in all things. And I definitely want to
discuss that word happiness because you are sharing that happiness
don't always come easily naturally, especially as a black woman.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
Yeah, can you share about you saying that? Can you
share about that? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (27:33):
Like, I don't know. The older I get, the more
I realize that, like life and everything in life is cyclical,
you can only really appreciate happy days when you've had
really sad ones. So I learned to because you have
(27:54):
to have that juxtaposition, right, Like anyone that only knows
one thing doesn't have the life perspective. So you know,
those are the people that when one bad thing happens,
they're like freaking out because they don't have any there's
no resiliency. And you know there's people who there's people
who yeah, there's people who fight, uh not fight. There's
(28:17):
people I think who feel like but but you shouldn't
have to be resilient, like in life, you shouldn't have
to have a resiliency. And I disagree. I think resiliency
is what builds character. I think you need some bounce back.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Yeah, like you have to.
Speaker 3 (28:37):
Have a buoyancy to get you through life. Like you
can't just be like swimming through like that's that's impossible.
There's there's waves, there's a tide, there's currents, there's a storm, like,
there's all sorts of things.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Babe, we need to be like them trees.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
You know when the storm hit that tree, be lean
and you think it's no break that thing, ain't it?
And then in the perk up, then that storm it'd
be it'd be it'd be swaying it.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
All right, it doesn't break, but like what what what
happens though? Right, there's still might have lost some branches,
might be some leaving.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Which is necessary.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
So yeah, there's pruning there, shedding that's happening. You still
had to to shake some stuff off of you. But
you you're standing in the sunshine after the storm. Right,
that's good, you know what I mean? You're still growing,
your roots are still in the ground, You're still planted,
and so yeah, so I feel like, yeah, happiness isn't
(29:39):
always a part of our existence, and that's okay. It's
what am I doing with the days where I'm not happy?
Am I believing that there's a happy day that is
still coming? Or am I or am I sitting in it?
Or am I sitting and wallowing in it and believing
that this is my life?
Speaker 1 (29:57):
What do you say to the people who be like
you don't have to be able to say something like that.
You can only be in a place of healing and
be on a journey of being self aware to be
like to have that perspective.
Speaker 3 (30:09):
I would say, hmm, that's a good question. I think.
I would say, you.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Don't understand what I'm going through. How do you not
have empathy?
Speaker 3 (30:21):
Well, I would say I do have empathy, a very
empathetic person, And I would say I am rooting for you.
But I would also say, like I said, we can
go back to retrospect. There's not one person in the
world who has had all bad days. That's not how
(30:42):
it works. There are some of us who have had
far more bad days than others. That is a fact.
But again, if we go back to gratitude, Michelle, there's
always something to be grateful for. My gratitude practice includes
me putting something in my gratitude jar, even if I
feel like I don't have something. Sometimes it's like my
(31:04):
nail pols didn't chip. Sometimes it's I got my dream job.
Sometimes it's there was food on the table today, but
there's something the sunshine. I like the way the sun
felt on my face today. So what I would say
is like, look back over your life and I actually
(31:26):
think there has been a time or a day or
a moment that you were happy, and like hold on
to that and remember that if you had it, then
you can have it again. But so much of life
is perspective. I really really believe that. And like the
mental agility, which is the toughest part, and I know
so many of us struggle with that. It's not easy.
(31:47):
It's not easy to work through and fight through depression.
Like I would never sit here and act like it
is it is an easy thing to do. But what
I will say is that it does take commitment. Think
about the times, Michelle, when you were at your lowest.
The only way you got through it is because you
(32:09):
at one point decided you were committed to doing so
That's right, and I would say the same for myself.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
Yeah, commitment.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
And brasilience, all of that. Yeah, you know, and that
builds strength. We feel like we just go get some
strength the Popeye Sailorman Spinach. That ain't how strength we're
you know, got you gotta train to get this strength.
So training is being committed. That's part of my training,
my strength training, getting up every morning.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
Yeah, you don't want to being around the right people,
Like listen, somebody listening to this podcast, This message is
for you. Sometimes the weight and the brunt of what
you're feeling is not your own. It's a projection from
(33:05):
someone else in your orbit, in your circle that has
latched on to you. Have you ever been have you
ever felt like or been in a time in your
life when you felt like, I don't know, I just
feel kind of like down. I don't really know why,
Like I just I don't know, I don't really feel
like myself. There's been a few times in my life
(33:27):
when I felt that way, and you know, I'm realizing,
like I don't really know why I feel that way.
Like I things are pretty okay, and I took stock
of the people around me, or of someone around me,
and was like, oh, this isn't mine, this ain't mine,
this is theirs, and I need to kindly give it back,
support them through it, pray for them. But this is
(33:50):
not mine. I'm feeling I And sometimes it comes from
the closest relationships. Sometimes it's family, sometimes it's our best friends.
Sometimes it's coworkers, sometimes it's a job, you know, whatever
it is. But like you have to take stock of
a friend of mineset this to me recently that sometimes
you have to take a moment and assess what's yours
(34:11):
and what isn't yours, and what isn't yours give it
back to where it came from, because we ain't got
time going to be carrying around what's ours, what somebody else's,
what's the person that gave it to them? Like we
don't we got enough going on with ourselves.
Speaker 1 (34:28):
But like you said, though I can support you, Oh
but I can, I'm not going to carry the whole load. No,
because there's some work that you need to do that
you may be afraid to do or.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
You don't know how to do it. I'll help you.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
You know, let's find a therapist of constantly together, let's
do some breath work or something. But you're so right,
and it is to encourage that person listening. Maybe there
is some work that needs to be done that you're
afraid to do, and it's like, no, you do not
have to be afraid.
Speaker 2 (35:04):
You don't have to be afraid.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Speaking of close relationships, you celebrating your wedding anniversary with
your husband Darryl, who sweet fully was able to help
you change perspective on being inspired. Do you think that
y'all's dynamics and everything about the word like amazing, beautiful?
(35:33):
And do you have something to impart into couples who
might be struggling and what they can maybe do.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
To strengthen the bond.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
Now, I do want to say that everybody don't show ashlely,
Everybody don't show the moment where they feet might stink,
they got on your nerves, or we might have got
in an argument today, or you might but you share
with us like, Okay, this wasn't easy.
Speaker 2 (35:59):
Can you impart some strength to people like we hold
this to work.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
It's just a struggle because you said, y'ap been knowing
each other fourteen years.
Speaker 3 (36:06):
Yeah, and we've only been married for two, so I
mean it's been a long it's been a long it's
been a long journey. We met when we were very young,
we met when we were twenty two, and then I
always say like we turned thirty and were like, what
are we doing? We're in love with each other and
we've been together ever since. But I think the wisdom
that I would impart is that if you were in
(36:30):
a marriage and a relationship that you really really want
to work, and you're struggling to find ways as to
how focus or or return, try your best to return
to partnership. And the reason I say partnership first is
(36:51):
because what's changed my life about my marriage is that
I have a partner in all things. And I think
often times when people feel stressed or strained in a
relationship is because they feel alone or single, but yet
they're in a relationship. They don't feel somewhere the partnership
(37:12):
got lost. And I think that when you return to
partnership or return to love, like one of which is
one of my favorite books by Mary and Williamson, which
is I never read that reader Return to Love by
Mary and Williamson. But a partner has your back and
does A partner sees you. A partner holds your hand
(37:39):
when you're too scared to go by yourself. A partner says,
I know you're tired, so I'll do it, and vice versa.
Like partnership is invigorating, and partnership is worth living for
and it's worth fighting for. So if you feel like
you can find that in your relationship, it's really worth
(38:00):
holding on to. And if you feel like you can't,
then maybe you never had a partner to begin with.
And that's okay too, you know what I mean, Like
understanding that, Like sometimes we have to come to an
a realization of like maybe we were never really partners,
maybe we were lovers, maybe we were friends, maybe we
were but to be partnered with somebody is a real blessing.
(38:21):
And that's what I'm most grateful for and what we
really prioritize on a daily basis. And let me tell
you something, you never know what lies ahead in life.
In the past two years we've been married, there's no
way we could have gotten through all the things. If
we weren't partnered, like even the strike, I have a partner,
(38:44):
we could have never predicted that my entire industry would
just be completely shut down a work stoppage. If I
didn't have someone who, like I said, was holding my
hand and is like standing side by side with me
and saying we're in this together, I think I would
be in a much different place right now with something
that again was on when we got married in twenty
(39:06):
twenty one. We didn't know if this was gonna happen, Like,
there's no way to predict that. We've you know, we've
dealt with life altering medical diagnoses. If we weren't partnered
in it, then maybe we wouldn't have the strength to
work through the medical diagnoses. Like, yeah, it's partnership that's healing.
(39:26):
It's partnership that's everything. And to me, partnership is what's
worth partnering your life with somebody because that's ultimately what
you're doing.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
Absolutely two whole people coming together. It ain't half a
person like the whole fifty to fifty no.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
No no, no no no.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
You come in home, partners come in home, and that
saying you ain't gonna come in with baggage or stuff
that you're still gonna be, you know, journeying through. But
it's like, man, can we do life?
Speaker 2 (39:53):
Somebody told me and helped me instead of be like
are we gonna ever get married? No? Can we do
life with each other?
Speaker 1 (40:02):
That's what partners do because when we say get married,
we really talking about the wedding, which is a couple
of hours for that day.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
But you gotta do life together.
Speaker 1 (40:11):
That is an ultimately marriage partnership, meaning you've chosen someone
that you feel like you can ultimately partner with, and
then the next layer is someone that you've sent I
can partner with you to do life with you.
Speaker 3 (40:27):
Yeah, And it's funny listening to you say what you
just said. It's making me think. Before I got married,
I was always like I never understood why some people
would make the choice to say partner and not husband
or wife or spouse or whatever. Some people are very
like big on saying partner, and like I really get
(40:50):
it to me, like I always say my husband, but
like there's a vibe to saying like my partner. Like
it's making it very clear this is not just this,
this is more than just like the title that you
have that's on your marriage license. This is like, this
is my partner in all things, like not not just
my husband, just my wife, not just my spouse. This
(41:11):
is my partner. And so I really just hearing you
say that, it made me like really understand the significance
and the weight that's saying someone is saying someone as
your partner.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
Holds that's so good.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
Yeah, And it's when it's a partnership, even corporations, when
you do partnerships or if I partner with someone, it's
like you do everything that you can to protect it.
This partnership, we have to we do everything that we
can to protect it. Thank you Ashley so much for
giving us that, Jim, and I'm excited you guys are
(41:48):
welcome to DM myself or maybe even DM or her
to even share tell her how that gem that she
dropped is going to strengthen your relationship with the person
that you love or anything else that she has shared.
And I'm excited for your podcast, which y'all it's on
the Oprah Winfrey Network podcast network, by the way, and
(42:10):
so congratulations on that. And again I'm so thankful to
have had you on checking in today.
Speaker 3 (42:18):
Thank you so much, sus. You know, I just love
an adore you, Michelle. I'm so grateful for you and
you all like. Check out Michelle's episode on Trials to Triumphs.
It's a great episode. It's fantastic. We have new episodes
every Monday. Yeah, but this is just always a joy.
I just love chatting. I could chat with you all
day long. So I know.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
It's amazing that your new episodes come out on Mondays
and mine comes out on Tuesdays, so we're not conflicting.
Speaker 2 (42:43):
So you guys are just fine.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
Check out her podcast Trials to Triumph and all the other.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
Amazing projects that she has her hand to Ashley, thank
you for checking in.
Speaker 3 (42:55):
Thanks sus, See you next time, right.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
I love Ashley. She is just she's awesome. She's awesome.
She's awesome.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
Now, y'all go back and look at my video before
the song I had called Believe in Me.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
She plays my therapist in that video.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
Y'all go back and look at it, and I hope
that she has said something that just sparks some creativideo
or something she says that lets you know everything's gonna
be alright and be on the lookout. Maybe a hummingbird
will fly your way.
Speaker 4 (43:28):
All right, I love you bye.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
Checking In with Michelle Williams is a production of iHeartRadio
and The Black Effect. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit
the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
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