June 24, 2025 • 37 mins
In this episode, Michelle sits down with the first guests of the season - Devale and Khadeen Ellis! They discuss their journey to the success they have today and the importance of showing up for each other in their partnership. Check in to gain an understanding of what true partnership looks like.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Checking In with Michelle Williams, a production of
iHeartRadio and The Black Effect. On another episode of Checking
(00:20):
In with Michelle Williams, we are talking.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
To Deval and Kadeen Ellis.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
This powerhouse couple, actors, producers on Broadway, New York Times
bestselling authors, parents to four boys.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
We've got a lot to discuss. Keep it locked on
this episode of Checking In. Well, I am so excited.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
I think I want to get right to this couple
that I am seeing everywhere. They are doing things, amazing
things together, but they're also killing it individually. I'm so
excited to have today, mister and missus, Devel and Kadeen Ellis.
Speaker 5 (01:05):
Thanks for having us, Michelle, thank you for checking in
with us.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yes, yes, let's go.
Speaker 6 (01:11):
Thank y'all for checking in with me.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
First of all, how are y'all even up right now?
Y'all are doing everything which is great and I don't
mean this from a critique, like everything y'all have the
Ellis ever After podcast, which you guys rebranded as of
April sixteenth, y'all are co producers of Oh Fellow, the
(01:35):
record breaking play on Broadway. Devout Zatima sisters, You and
Kadeen both New York Times bestselling book We Over Me,
The counterintuitive approach to get it everything you want in
a relationship. Kadeen divorced sisters on Tyler Perry's BT plus
(01:58):
Mom Friends, Which I think. Did I think my best
friend spoke at your conference one year?
Speaker 7 (02:05):
I hope.
Speaker 6 (02:05):
I'm saying a Mirra, Yes, yes you were in common
you were.
Speaker 5 (02:12):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes we were magazine covered dinner together.
Speaker 8 (02:17):
What was that last year?
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, so absolutely amazing. So I'm
saying all this to say, y'all have a lot going on,
devouts the team, sister's husband father, Yes, y'all have four
boys together, and are are are people trying to do
the whole Russell and Sierra single.
Speaker 9 (02:43):
They They've been telling us we need to have a
little internet needs for the past three.
Speaker 7 (02:47):
Years, but it's not.
Speaker 8 (02:48):
It's not happening.
Speaker 5 (02:49):
We actually, if Sierra and Russell go for it, all
power to them because the got snipped.
Speaker 8 (02:53):
Yes, yo, there will be no more.
Speaker 6 (02:57):
There will be Well I listen, look at me talking.
I believe in miracles.
Speaker 5 (03:04):
All right now, because if it happens, I'm gonna be
like yea god mother.
Speaker 6 (03:07):
Michelle weekend. I got it.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
I absolutely will be God Mamy, My question is how
are y'all finding the time for life with each other, individual,
self care, parenting, and work.
Speaker 9 (03:26):
Wow, it's interesting that you asked this question when Kadeen
and I were just speaking this morning about how we've
decided to curate our life.
Speaker 7 (03:35):
You know, we've curated our lives since we were eighteen.
When we first met.
Speaker 9 (03:38):
We decided we were going to do things differently and
in a non traditional way than everyone else.
Speaker 7 (03:42):
And we've just been sharing that journey along the way.
Speaker 9 (03:45):
And I think today I finally realize, I said Kadeen,
our journey is going to look very different, and we
have to curate it in a way where we get
to spend time with each other and the kids, because
we don't work well when we don't.
Speaker 7 (03:55):
See each other.
Speaker 9 (03:56):
When you see me looking my worst and Kate looking
at her words, it's because when not around each other
or the kids for a couple of weeks. So we
just finding time now to make sure we do both
and being deliberate about it.
Speaker 5 (04:06):
Yeah. And when he says a couple, that's intentional time, right,
because we'll be together sometimes in the same house days
going you know, weeks are going by and I'm just like, man,
I just miss my man, I miss my best friend
because we haven't made the intentional time to connect and
spend that quality time. You know, it's not enough just
(04:26):
to be you know, moving shifts in the house because
the kids have their activities, and we have work obligations,
and of course, like you said, taking time for ourselves
as individuals. Those are things that I think tended to
get kind of glazed over over the past years, and
only because our hearts were in the right place. We
really wanted to curate and build out a life for
(04:47):
ourselves where we did have autonomy over our time.
Speaker 8 (04:50):
And we realized like.
Speaker 5 (04:52):
Taking every gig, going to every event, trying to show
up in every interview that was starting to get really
really daunting after a while, and we to now kind
of regroup at the top of the year and really
decide collectively if we're going to take the gig or
if we're going to do an interview or a project or.
Speaker 8 (05:10):
Whatever it may be.
Speaker 5 (05:11):
Is it something that we really are invested in, and
is it something that's going to move the needle for
us and not just doing busy work to stay busy if.
Speaker 8 (05:18):
That makes sense.
Speaker 6 (05:21):
Do you all does it feel like pressure?
Speaker 1 (05:23):
If I were to say, you guys are an example
of you can have it all, meaning if you get
what I'm saying, marriage work, marriage and still doing your
individual dreams and goals, your work coming together producing or
(05:50):
is that a question that comes with some pressure because
some people might say when you said de Val, you
said it's going to look different for us us there
might be some people that say, one of y'all need
to take a step back.
Speaker 6 (06:06):
I'm not people.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
I'm excited because y'all are showing me, at least Kadeen
as a woman that although I do believe you do
have to do what works for you, that you can
still do your thing and be buried like.
Speaker 6 (06:26):
I love that.
Speaker 5 (06:27):
Yes, No, it's I don't think it's pressure at all.
I think we are showing an example to the masses
of how it can be done.
Speaker 8 (06:37):
I also feel.
Speaker 5 (06:38):
That God literally will create the perfect timing for whatever
it is that's supposed to creature fruition for us. So
at one point in time, devou was at the forefront,
like there was Sisters, there was the spinoffs, the Tima,
like all of the things were happening for him, which
the entire family and me is his wife. Knowing his
dream since the very beginning of our relationship, I was like, Babe,
(07:00):
it's your time, Like, we're going to rally behind you.
We're going to push you to the forefront. Whatever we
need to do. Home base is taking care of if
it means moving my parents in, your parents coming down
to help with the We have an amazing village, an
amazing family who really rally around us. So we understanding
that through God's timing, it just means that whoever's season
(07:22):
it is, whoever's moment is it is in that moment,
we just kind of push them forward and we rally
behind them. So it was devowed for sisters and the
team for a minute. Then it was the both of us,
you know, with the rebanding of the podcast, there was
the book, and then now for me getting the opportunity
with Tyler Perry for divorced sisters, you know, something that
I've been wanting to do for so long, but I
had taken fifteen years to really just build our family
(07:43):
and have our children and be so invested. Yeah, and
there was the you know, having the child, and then
there was rearing the child and then getting back and
then getting pregnant again.
Speaker 8 (07:51):
So I felt like for the past fifteen years that
was my focus.
Speaker 5 (07:55):
And then now I said, man, God gave me the
green light, you know, called me with this opportunity. And
it was amazing to see how my husband and our
family and the boys even just rallied behind me.
Speaker 8 (08:07):
And it was just like, Kadeen, that was your time.
Speaker 5 (08:09):
Go go do whatever it is you need to do.
Just do it and just know that we're at home
rooting for you. And that's been amazing.
Speaker 6 (08:16):
I love this so much.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Brooklyn, New York.
Speaker 8 (08:22):
We're very, very big Brooklyn, New York.
Speaker 6 (08:25):
Yes, listen, I went to Brooklyn.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Last week for some pizza because apparently one of the
top spots for.
Speaker 8 (08:34):
Pizza is Bridgie Malby.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
It was in park in Park Slope, just just set Panos.
Speaker 5 (08:42):
Probably probably was yeah everything pizza there.
Speaker 6 (08:46):
Yes, it was good. I'm going back and I'm taking
people with me.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
It was the good old traditional oven fired yeah, you know,
so that was that. That was amazing. And this spot,
by the way, please go. They're known for pizza. That's
their hero product. They don't do chicken wings. It's literally
just pizza, pizza. I appreciate you know what your bag is,
(09:17):
stay in that bag. Yeah, and it's and it's not
even pizza, it's they don't even have like eighty flavors.
You you they got five specialty pizzas, a calzone, beer, one,
and soda.
Speaker 6 (09:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
I say pop, but y'all probably say soda. I just yeah,
I have been wanting. I was told in order to
get really really good food, I had to get out
the city of Manhattan.
Speaker 5 (09:44):
It's the little mom and pop now, yes.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Yes, And now that the weather is warming up in
New York, I'm finding myself being able to be out
and discover So yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. De Val
and Kadem you both have interesting an interesting path into
art and entertainment. Just about former NFL player Kadeen Weather
(10:13):
reporter traffic reporter into acting. Do you guys both mind
sharing that journey just in case someone is listening that saying, Hey,
I'm a chef or I work in the finance department,
but I really want to be an actor. R.
Speaker 7 (10:36):
That's actually a really good question.
Speaker 9 (10:37):
I started off as an athlete only because I thought
that was the only way my journey was going.
Speaker 7 (10:41):
To carry me.
Speaker 9 (10:42):
Growing up in Brooklyn, there were no places directly that
taught young men that it was okay to be in
the arts.
Speaker 7 (10:48):
Think about Brooklyn in the nineties. If there were any
young men in the arts, they were considered soft. So
it was like you had to go play some sort
of ball or do something to not be considered soft.
Speaker 9 (10:58):
You know, we're talking about before people evolved in what
they know we know now. So I just played football
and basketball to go to school for free. It was like, hey,
I had a plan. My plan was to get my education.
Speaker 10 (11:10):
If I go to school for free, I was going
to graduate from school, get a job as a stockbroker,
get a Brownstone, live downstairs in the basement floor, and
ran out the upstairs floor so I didn't have to
be a starving artist.
Speaker 9 (11:20):
You know, Michelle, the arts is it's not very lucrative early.
So the way, yeah, football was a way for me
to get my family a foundation financially so that I
didn't have to struggle while pursuing what my real dreams are.
And it's funny you asked before about us doing things
differently than everyone else. We knew it was going to
be different because I knew kadein wanted to get in
(11:42):
the arts and I wanted to get in the arts,
and we neither wanted to sacrifice our career for the
family for long term. So, like she said, it was
whose turn is it? It just so happened that, Hey,
the valves opportunity broke first. So while my opportunity broke,
I continue to carry and bring my wife with me.
Let's do a podcast, Let's do a book, Let's do
(12:03):
something so that people can see your gifts so that
when your opportunity comes, they don't say why should we
get it?
Speaker 7 (12:08):
So it was all like a very cure raated.
Speaker 9 (12:10):
Plan for us to show our gifts through social media,
through other means so that once the acting opportunity come,
we can show them that we can do this as well.
Speaker 8 (12:18):
Yeah, I mean for me going to college, it was
a struggle for me in the beginning.
Speaker 5 (12:22):
My family is very heavily in the medical field, so
I have nurses, doctors, everything, So you know, when my
mom and dad kind of was just.
Speaker 8 (12:30):
Like, oh, this is you want to do community school communication.
What do you mean? What is that? You know, how
are you going to make money doing that?
Speaker 3 (12:35):
You know?
Speaker 6 (12:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (12:36):
And I was just like, well, you know, there's so
many different ways to do it because it's not the
conventional route for anyone. I think any artist, when you
listen to their journey and their story, it's all something
completely different, you know. So once I finally had the
courage to say, you know what, the medical feel is
not for me, my family of course supported me. I
ended up in Hofstra getting my degree and broadcasting when
I was doing undergrad and then went back to do
(12:56):
speech communication, rhetoric and performance because I also.
Speaker 8 (12:59):
Enjoyed acting as well.
Speaker 5 (13:01):
So now fast forward to where I am getting a
series regular role on Tyler Perry's new show Divorces say
that again, Dy Larry's and series regular on Tyler Perry's
Divorce Sisters. It's really a full circle moment for me
because it's just something.
Speaker 8 (13:18):
That I've always wanted to do for so long.
Speaker 5 (13:20):
I just getting small gigs and guest star roles here
and there, just to kind of keep my foot in
the game, and then finally leaving an opportunity, like in
this industry, all you want is someone to just say,
you know what, I'm going to give you a chance.
And getting that after so many years of wanting to
do this in this capacity.
Speaker 8 (13:36):
It's just I've literally been floating all year.
Speaker 5 (13:40):
It's been it's been amazing, the journey has been amazing, awesome.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Yeah, I'm I'm sitting here just smiling like a I'm
gonna say proud auntie because I feel like I'm older
than y'all, but.
Speaker 6 (13:49):
I don't want to say it. But I'm like, oh,
this is is so No.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
I was sitting here just want to be I'll have
so many amazing individual accolades, and then I was like,
how am I gonna respectfully do this interviewing y'all together?
Speaker 6 (14:09):
But I love seeing this so much. I really really
do this.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
I don't know how often you get this, but it
is hopeful. It's giving me hope. I hope I can
speak for others, giving people hope, lifting each other up.
Like you said, maybe somebody will have to take take
some time back while pushing the other person forward. How
(14:37):
have you been able to help other couples manage their
relationship like you said, because sometimes we might the man
is seen as.
Speaker 7 (14:48):
Well.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Traditionally, he is the provider, he is this, he is that.
But if he has to take a step back while
she goes forward, have you been able to help men
of maybe saying, yo, bro let her.
Speaker 8 (15:03):
Move her forward.
Speaker 7 (15:04):
Absolutely, that's part of it very early on. Yeah, part
of our story.
Speaker 9 (15:09):
Is being vulnerable so that people can understand that what
you think life is going to be is not always
God's plan, and you only want to make God laugh.
Tell him you got a plan for yourself. That's how
you really make God laugh. So I had to learn
early in our relationship that being a provider didn't only
mean finances, right. I just talked about this on another
interview where I was making a large part of the
(15:31):
money playing football, and then all of that got stripped
from me when I got cut, and for the first
time I had to lean on my wife to bring
in some money. And it wasn't just money. We didn't
have insurance. And these are things that people don't understand,
like when you're talking to couples and how you're going
to survive. Sometimes your wife may have to go to
work or do something just so that y'all can make it.
Speaker 7 (15:50):
And man, it's okay. Like at first I took it
as a blow.
Speaker 9 (15:54):
To my ego. I'm not gonna lie. I was like, Yo,
I'm supposed to pay all the bills. I'm supposed to
get insurance. I'm supposed to be the one. And I
felt like it wasn't fear to her that I'm asking
her to do some of these things. And it wasn't
until I started to speak to God and speak to myself,
and God was just like, bro, I never said that
you had to do all of these things all the time,
(16:16):
Like you need to start speaking to your wife about
what you need as a man so that she can
help provide that.
Speaker 7 (16:22):
And I was like, Okay, God, if this is what
you're saying, I gotta do. I'm gonna do it.
Speaker 9 (16:26):
The moment Michelle, I started focusing on telling her how
I felt, telling her what I needed, but also being
for her what she needed emotionally. Really, it just seemed
like our life just blossomed, like there were no more arguments.
Yeah we have discussions still, Yeah we still disagree on things,
but it's okay, you know what I'm saying. Okay, you disagree,
(16:47):
I disagree, how can we move forward? So I like
to tell men like yo, your job of what you
think being a provider is is not going to be
decided by how much money you make. There's so many
more things you have to provide as a man to
be there and also to I talk to women too
and say, listen, your husband may not feel comfortable telling
you how he feels because we've been conditioned to hold
(17:09):
things inside. Try your heart is to give him a
safe space. And when he's honest with you, try not
to shame him for it.
Speaker 7 (17:16):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 9 (17:17):
Try to understand where he's coming from. And I tell
husbands the same thing, like, your wife's going to tell
you what she need, and when you ask, don't shame her.
You asked her to you, let's okay. So that's typically
my message to.
Speaker 5 (17:30):
To I mean, that's that's He's spot on with everything
he says. It's been necessary pressure that I felt Deval
had put on himself in our early years because he
never vocalized to me that that that was his plan.
Of course, he said, you know, now that you're my wife,
I want you to be taken care of.
Speaker 8 (17:47):
It's my duty to do that.
Speaker 5 (17:48):
But me being a team player as well, knowing that
we're going to do this together, I'm like, listen, if
I'm better equipped in this moment to you know, push
the family forward, then pass me the torch passed me
the time, and I'm going to run the flag, you know.
Speaker 8 (18:02):
And that happened early on in our relationship.
Speaker 5 (18:03):
Once he got cut and we had to move back
to Brooklyn, we went to his grandmother's old apartment that
she had rent stabilized for like thirty something years, and
when we sat in the room together, it's like, Okay,
we both need to figure out a way to make.
Speaker 8 (18:15):
Ends meet and make some money. And I was like, hey, I.
Speaker 5 (18:17):
Was working part time at mac Cosmetics when we lived
in Detroit together.
Speaker 8 (18:21):
I said, yo.
Speaker 5 (18:22):
He said, oh, you think you can get a job
here in Brooklyn And I'm like, you know what, Let
me dry And that day, same day, moment I put
some makeup on, put on my all black turk, off,
my engagement ring, put it in the jewelry box, I
got on the bus and I went to King's Plaza
shopping mall in Brooklyn to get a job. And I
was the one that was holding down the fort for
a bit. We ended up having our first son shortly
(18:42):
after that, and Deva was a stay at home dad
and I was the one working at.
Speaker 6 (18:46):
The time, and I just.
Speaker 8 (18:48):
Felt like I'm doing my part.
Speaker 5 (18:49):
I felt good as a woman, like man like our
son is taking care of with his dad, and I'm
the one right now that's in the workforce until he
was able to pick up his training business.
Speaker 7 (18:59):
And all that didn't feel good. I didn't.
Speaker 9 (19:01):
It was hard for you to deal with that, but
it felt good to have a partner who had my back.
Speaker 7 (19:06):
Like.
Speaker 9 (19:06):
She didn't just say, OK, rough around here, I'm out.
She was like, yo, what do I gotta do? And
I was just like, yo, if you can just make
sure we got insurance when this baby comes, we Gucci.
So she got enough hours to get insurance. I was
still busting my tail. I was a stay at home dad,
but I was picking up shifts. I was a substitute teacher.
I worked as a color commentator for MSG Varsity.
Speaker 7 (19:26):
I was working summer schools. I was doing everything to
just you know, strap money together.
Speaker 6 (19:31):
Yeah, this is.
Speaker 7 (19:33):
Where you say, you know, can everybody have it all? Yes?
Everybody can have it all. If you have a.
Speaker 9 (19:37):
Person and you use discernment to decide, like this is
the person I'm gonna do life with.
Speaker 7 (19:42):
You can have it all. You just can't have it
all at the same time. That's the thing.
Speaker 9 (19:47):
You want to have everything at twenty five, it's impossible,
Like we're forty, just starting to feel like we're having
it all, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 8 (19:55):
And that's why our podcast has been so pale.
Speaker 5 (19:57):
So when you ask about, you know, couples and other
relationships and have people.
Speaker 8 (20:01):
Talked about, yeah, I feel like this is literally.
Speaker 5 (20:03):
Our podcast is like is anyone else feeling the way
we feel? And that it's also become kind of like
our ministry at this point. You know, we've had so
many couples I can't tell you, Michelle countless people who
have come to us either when we're in public and
they run into us, or they send in listener letters
for emails and talk about our podcast and listening to
the things that we discuss has helped them save their marriage,
(20:26):
you know, learn how to communicate better with their spouse.
So people have even said they read our book and
they realize that they do not want to be married. Yes,
because if marriage is being of service to.
Speaker 8 (20:36):
Your partner for the you know, the rest of your life,
then I'm not equipped to do that. And that's also okay.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
That's so when you talk about about marriage being of service, Kadeen,
he said, this almost is our ministry because I do
feel something absolutely special. When I say special, I mean divine.
When I say divine. Israel Holton has a song called
Jesus Be the Center of it All, and I think
(21:07):
sometimes the only way something can withstand the pressure and
the hard times is your foundation. So I was so
happy to hear you say that, Kadin, when you said
you got a job at King's Plasm, put your ring gate,
(21:29):
put your ring in the drawer, got on the bus.
Was there an innate de value you use the word discernment.
Was there an innate thing that said, I'm gonna do
this because I.
Speaker 6 (21:42):
Know we're gonna make it, or I'm gonna.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Do this because no matter if we're still here, I
love him.
Speaker 5 (21:50):
We're gonna be.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
That's good because you know, you know how people say, honey,
if we was in a car Moore.
Speaker 6 (21:59):
Boxes loan with you, uh huh.
Speaker 8 (22:03):
You know what, it definitely is a little bit of both.
Speaker 5 (22:06):
I felt genuinely devout up until that point because we
started dating in college at eighteen, but we knew each
other since elementary school. Right, The man that he showed
himself to be over those yes.
Speaker 8 (22:20):
At that point, what was it seven years? The man
that he had shown himself to be already. Hadn't you
so invested?
Speaker 5 (22:28):
Because I'm like, this man is has been a man
of his word up until this point. And he said
to me, he was like, Kaden, this won't be it
for everything. He's like, let me just try to figure
things out. And for me, I was just like, as
long as I have you and we're doing this together,
I don't care what we do it.
Speaker 8 (22:44):
You can tell me, hey, we're gonna go to.
Speaker 5 (22:46):
The moon on Friday and then on Saturday we'll be
back in time for lunch and I'd be like, okay,
we we wearing what are packing? Like?
Speaker 8 (22:53):
That's how I held.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Did you believe her?
Speaker 6 (22:56):
Did you believe her about because man could be like because.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
There is a thing in a man that wants to
have and be and have all things for his wife
and family. Did you believe her when she said, baby,
I got you. I'm here no matter what.
Speaker 7 (23:11):
I'm gonna tell you. When I believed her? At first?
Speaker 9 (23:14):
At first I didn't believe her because I didn't believe myself.
I didn't believe where we were, so I couldn't even
fathom believing that she would want to stay here because
I was got I'm like, why are we even back
in Brooklyn?
Speaker 8 (23:25):
Like?
Speaker 9 (23:25):
I did everything I was supposed to do. I went
to every meeting on time, I was early, I participated well,
I performed well. I saved my money, I invested my money.
It just so happened at the stock market crash and
the housing bubble burst in two thousand and nine, so
all the investments I made had all come bottomed out.
So I couldn't even fathom her believing her, because I
(23:45):
was like, I don't even know how we're here. And
then when she said I'm gonna go work at MAC,
and she started working at MAC, and I was pissed
because there were holidays where she had to work and
we couldn't spend time together. I was like, Yo, she
really she's really doing this, Like she really don't care.
She will come home and be happy and excited. This
is what did it for me. I said, Hey, we
can be out of here in five years. We can't
(24:07):
go on no vacations, we can't buy no designer clothes.
I'm gonna turn to my outia seven. I'm gonna take
the train. And she said as rock and for five years, Michelle,
this is the part people don't ever want to. When
they talk about our story story, they can't forget this part.
Speaker 7 (24:24):
For five years, Michelle.
Speaker 9 (24:25):
We spent no money doing anything. We ate grits and eggs.
We saved every penny to be able to move to
La to start our dream. And whenever I tell his story,
people be like, celebrities, be so out of touch. Ain't
nobody saving for five years? I said, I wasn't a
celebrity when I was saving for five years. I was
a gym teacher and my wife was a makeup artist.
(24:46):
You know us as celebrities now because of the sacrifices
we took in and the sacrifices we did together. It
wasn't one person sacrificing. You know how hard it is
for a woman to be kept, be in a house,
have a big rain, she has a driveway backyard. And
then her fiance said, Yo, we got to move back
to Brooklyn Crown Heights, live in my grandmother's apartment, and you.
Speaker 7 (25:08):
Got to go back to work.
Speaker 9 (25:09):
You know how hard it is for a man to
have to tell us his girl that, and how hard
it is for a woman to accept that that.
Speaker 7 (25:16):
That's our story. When people discuss, like what is it
about y'all. We believe in each other.
Speaker 5 (25:21):
Yo.
Speaker 9 (25:22):
When I told this woman what I wanted to do
with my life, she said, okay, but how we gonna
get there?
Speaker 8 (25:26):
Because I was like, this is our first day? I was,
but shit, I said, first day, honey. I said, so
what we're gonna do to give these dreams happen?
Speaker 7 (25:32):
Baby?
Speaker 8 (25:33):
How we gonna get on TV?
Speaker 6 (25:34):
Together? But I was, I was like, I was like,
she believed me, Come on, all right?
Speaker 9 (25:41):
And then the lesson's history, like this is my this
is my my dog, bro, Like there's nothing, there's nobody
in this world. There's no thing in this world that
can take her place. And I say this whole heartedly.
Not even my kids, not even my kids, nothing can
take their mom's place. This is my partner, Like this
is I can't say it anymore. And I'm so happy
(26:03):
for her, Like.
Speaker 6 (26:04):
Get a room, a moment she gets to go out there.
Speaker 7 (26:09):
I want to see her.
Speaker 8 (26:11):
But he's just sitting back there and just smiling. Randomly,
He'll walk past the house, meet the house and he
just be smiling. I'm like, what's the man? He's like,
I'm just so proud of you.
Speaker 5 (26:19):
I you know, you know how I felt all these
years when everything was coming to fruation for you.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Ellis after after y'all's new podcast, co producers of Old
Fellow on Broadway, such amazing things the team of Sisters
Divorced Sisters on b ET plus best selling book Too
We Over Me, as you just said, you know it
(26:49):
is we over me.
Speaker 6 (26:50):
But at the same time, I choose you for any
and everything. You daily.
Speaker 7 (27:02):
It's over me, but I choose you daily. That's fire.
Speaker 8 (27:06):
It'st this book.
Speaker 7 (27:08):
Two sequelook, Yes, I choose you daily, Yes.
Speaker 6 (27:15):
Daily.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
My podcast, the foundation of it is mental health. Y'all
have been very open and vulnerable about how you really feel.
Speaker 6 (27:31):
If you don't mind me asking, how are you really doing?
Speaker 1 (27:38):
M And I'm not saying that this conversation was not real,
because it absolutely is.
Speaker 6 (27:46):
How are y'all doing?
Speaker 5 (27:48):
You?
Speaker 7 (27:48):
Want some truth?
Speaker 9 (27:49):
Truth?
Speaker 8 (27:50):
Yes?
Speaker 7 (27:51):
One thing I'm known for is given the truth.
Speaker 9 (27:53):
And that's why it's polarizing because some things I say
people don't agree with and I don't care. It's hard
sometimes to be honest because I'm living in my truth
that I know a lot of people have never seen before.
Speaker 7 (28:08):
They've never seen a man be this faithful.
Speaker 9 (28:11):
And love his woman outwardly as much and love his
kids as much as I'm showing. And I'm doing it
purposely because I know a lot of people have.
Speaker 7 (28:19):
Never seen it.
Speaker 9 (28:20):
But sometimes it's get hard because people try to project
on you and be like, oh.
Speaker 7 (28:24):
He's fake.
Speaker 9 (28:25):
He don't really love Kadem that much, you don't love
his kids that much. If you want, honestly, I'll tell
you the truth. I can't even show you.
Speaker 7 (28:32):
How I love my kids, how much I love my wife.
Speaker 9 (28:35):
I also can't even show you on this internet how
much I love my own people. And it gets time
and some time because I like to show it, and
I always get backlash sometimes from my own people, and
I understand it's because they've never seen it before, so
I don't get upset at them. I don't take it personally.
It's just hard and it's exhausting at times because it's
(28:55):
like I'm really.
Speaker 7 (28:56):
Just being myself. I love her more than anything, and
I love my kids.
Speaker 9 (29:00):
Is in my life and I just want to share it,
and it gets exhausting when people try to pinpoint things
or project what they're going through. Oh he's faking, because
he really And it's like I'm not like I could
do more. If y'all think I'm extra down to my wife, I.
Speaker 7 (29:14):
Could be even.
Speaker 9 (29:15):
You know how much times I've wanted to postuff and
k be like the value you can't and I'd like,
but I just love y'all so much. Like that's the
hardest thing when people ask me like how are you feeling?
And I always want to say I'm good, and sometimes
I don't be good, like it's okay. Yeah, it's like
I'm not good sometimes, Like I don't want to let
people in all the time, but I feel like this
(29:37):
is God telling me we need to because they need
to on each other like this. They see us fight
all the time. Right, if you turn on the internet,
you see people fighting all time.
Speaker 7 (29:47):
How about you.
Speaker 9 (29:47):
See people loving each other and just say it's okay.
Speaker 6 (29:51):
How about that?
Speaker 2 (29:52):
How about all about that's my truth?
Speaker 8 (29:55):
Yes, No, that's that's great, babe.
Speaker 5 (29:57):
I think we both have kind of realized how exhausting
it can be on social media, So we have recently
and more recently, I should say, have been like conditioning
ourselves saying, you know what, social media is not.
Speaker 8 (30:14):
A real place.
Speaker 5 (30:17):
Real life being present in moments like this is where
life exists and I think if more people realize and
understood like life really happens in real life, then then
there would be a lot less of that daunting energy
that you let into your space. So for me, Michelle,
I am very purposeful now in order to be okay.
(30:39):
I'm purposeful about disconnecting from that world and that space.
Speaker 8 (30:44):
I feel my best when I.
Speaker 5 (30:46):
Am living and I'm existing in real life with my
husband and my children, who are right down stick you
want and up and down here like this is the
joy for me is being present in this space, taking
time with my boys. I just took my oldest son
on a day overnight trip to DC to catch the
Kendrick Laurens's the concert, the last one he had in
(31:07):
the US, and that was because I was busy working
and had to do press for the show and I
couldn't take him to another show. And it's like those
moments where I'm just like, man, I'm just soaking it
up because life is so fleeting.
Speaker 8 (31:18):
Time is a thief.
Speaker 5 (31:19):
You see it when you have children and you realize
I was just pregnant like yesterday, and you're fourteen and you're.
Speaker 8 (31:25):
Taller than me.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
How did we get here?
Speaker 6 (31:27):
You know?
Speaker 8 (31:27):
So pres girl, preserving mine.
Speaker 6 (31:30):
I will say this.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
Now, when you said you all are showing people something
that they have never seen. Meaning when you to the
people that maybe are projecting, maybe they're actually projecting because
that's they desire what they see. And y'all, and it
seems like I wrote this down when you said that
(31:53):
chain breakers and cycle breakers helping, and you become a
cycle breaker because of what you choose daily.
Speaker 7 (32:05):
Yes, yes, yes, you shall come on.
Speaker 9 (32:08):
That is that is literally it though, that is it
seems so simple, right, But you choose to do the
right thing daily, not this one time.
Speaker 7 (32:18):
I wake up every morning and I'm going to do
the right thing.
Speaker 9 (32:20):
I'm gonna be faithful to my wife, I'm going to
love my kids, I'm gonna work hard, I'm gonna be
on time.
Speaker 7 (32:26):
And you just choose to do that daily.
Speaker 8 (32:28):
That becomes your reality.
Speaker 7 (32:29):
Yes, yes, And so.
Speaker 6 (32:33):
Kadeen and develop individually.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Only you know what cycles or patterns that you probably
needed to unlearn and break. But we only can do
that because of, like you said, what we choose to
do data daily.
Speaker 8 (32:52):
That's what I don't think does it become a Habit takes.
Speaker 9 (32:55):
Thousands of thousands of rest before a muscle movement becomes habit.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Yeah mm hmm. And I'm so excited that we got
to have this opportunity to talk.
Speaker 6 (33:07):
This is going to be off the chain.
Speaker 7 (33:11):
It's blessing me.
Speaker 6 (33:12):
Thank you.
Speaker 7 (33:16):
I knew you could bless us.
Speaker 9 (33:17):
And this is why we were so interested in getting
this conversation, because you what you've been doing for such
a long time and being in the public eye, I'd
be willing to ask people like, how do y'all deal
because Michelle, it don't matter what you do, there's always
going to be somebody that's going to find something negative
to say about You.
Speaker 7 (33:34):
Could be feeding the homeless and they're gonna be like,
they're just feeding the homeless because they want people to
see they got money.
Speaker 6 (33:39):
It's like I just came to feed the horns.
Speaker 7 (33:42):
How do you deal with How do you deal with that?
I really want to know you.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Don't you actually just but I empathize with what you
were saying. You want people to know how authentic you
are and you're being real.
Speaker 6 (34:00):
But when you realize.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
It, like there is no magical or theological response other
than you just have to continue doing.
Speaker 5 (34:13):
Right.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
There's always going to be somebody. Since the beginning of time.
Someone always criticizing the good that someone else is doing
because it also probably reminds them of what they're not doing.
Speaker 8 (34:31):
We talked about that with mediocrity.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
It's like unfortunate that can come, that will even come
from family or friends.
Speaker 6 (34:41):
It don't take all that, yes to do.
Speaker 7 (34:43):
We got the.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
Kids to do.
Speaker 5 (34:47):
And if you don't need help and all the things
that we were doing that was the most, Now you
need help.
Speaker 6 (34:52):
So yeah, I don't do the most.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
You lose access to what I have too because I'm
a sharer, I'm a giver.
Speaker 6 (35:02):
But yeah, it do take all that, literally got it.
Don't take all that. It takes all of that.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
I cannot wait till one day I could be like, y'all,
I got both kids.
Speaker 6 (35:16):
You're right, I can't do that. I can't give you.
Speaker 7 (35:18):
They got tuition right now.
Speaker 6 (35:22):
I love y'all so much.
Speaker 7 (35:24):
It's been.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
I have had all the talking points and all the
questions to ask, but I love how this flowed. But
still being respectful of y'all's amazing resume. Again, thank y'all
for being here and checking in.
Speaker 8 (35:42):
Thank you you being amazing.
Speaker 5 (35:43):
Congratulations on everything you have going on show in New York.
Speaker 6 (35:49):
Y'all, come on in, come on in, come on. We'll
let you know when we're coming.
Speaker 7 (35:53):
Please do.
Speaker 6 (35:54):
I'll see y'all soon.
Speaker 8 (35:55):
All right, love you take care of listens to y'all.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Bye, all right, y'all listen. Okay.
Speaker 4 (36:05):
I think this episode is where you hear love in action.
Speaker 6 (36:16):
You hear what it takes.
Speaker 4 (36:19):
When you choose to love daily. It really seems like
it's a daily thing, choosing to love what you can
do with your pain and how you can turn it
into power and purpose, especially when you stay locked in
(36:41):
with the one you love. Thank y'all so much for
tuning in. Let me know your takeaways from this episode.
I feel it was really special. I still have goosebumps,
Like literally, y'all, I literally still have goosebumps from this
conversation until next time.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
Checking In with Michelle Williams is a production of iHeartRadio
and The Black Effect. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit
the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
Welcome to Checking In with Michelle Williams, a production of
iHeartRadio and The Black Effect. On another episode of Checking
(00:20):
In with Michelle Williams, we are talking.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
To Deval and Kadeen Ellis.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
This powerhouse couple, actors, producers on Broadway, New York Times
bestselling authors, parents to four boys.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
We've got a lot to discuss. Keep it locked on
this episode of Checking In. Well, I am so excited.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
I think I want to get right to this couple
that I am seeing everywhere. They are doing things, amazing
things together, but they're also killing it individually. I'm so
excited to have today, mister and missus, Devel and Kadeen Ellis.
Speaker 5 (01:05):
Thanks for having us, Michelle, thank you for checking in
with us.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yes, yes, let's go.
Speaker 6 (01:11):
Thank y'all for checking in with me.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
First of all, how are y'all even up right now?
Y'all are doing everything which is great and I don't
mean this from a critique, like everything y'all have the
Ellis ever After podcast, which you guys rebranded as of
April sixteenth, y'all are co producers of Oh Fellow, the
(01:35):
record breaking play on Broadway. Devout Zatima sisters, You and
Kadeen both New York Times bestselling book We Over Me,
The counterintuitive approach to get it everything you want in
a relationship. Kadeen divorced sisters on Tyler Perry's BT plus
(01:58):
Mom Friends, Which I think. Did I think my best
friend spoke at your conference one year?
Speaker 7 (02:05):
I hope.
Speaker 6 (02:05):
I'm saying a Mirra, Yes, yes you were in common
you were.
Speaker 5 (02:12):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes we were magazine covered dinner together.
Speaker 8 (02:17):
What was that last year?
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, so absolutely amazing. So I'm
saying all this to say, y'all have a lot going on,
devouts the team, sister's husband father, Yes, y'all have four
boys together, and are are are people trying to do
the whole Russell and Sierra single.
Speaker 9 (02:43):
They They've been telling us we need to have a
little internet needs for the past three.
Speaker 7 (02:47):
Years, but it's not.
Speaker 8 (02:48):
It's not happening.
Speaker 5 (02:49):
We actually, if Sierra and Russell go for it, all
power to them because the got snipped.
Speaker 8 (02:53):
Yes, yo, there will be no more.
Speaker 6 (02:57):
There will be Well I listen, look at me talking.
I believe in miracles.
Speaker 5 (03:04):
All right now, because if it happens, I'm gonna be
like yea god mother.
Speaker 6 (03:07):
Michelle weekend. I got it.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
I absolutely will be God Mamy, My question is how
are y'all finding the time for life with each other, individual,
self care, parenting, and work.
Speaker 9 (03:26):
Wow, it's interesting that you asked this question when Kadeen
and I were just speaking this morning about how we've
decided to curate our life.
Speaker 7 (03:35):
You know, we've curated our lives since we were eighteen.
When we first met.
Speaker 9 (03:38):
We decided we were going to do things differently and
in a non traditional way than everyone else.
Speaker 7 (03:42):
And we've just been sharing that journey along the way.
Speaker 9 (03:45):
And I think today I finally realize, I said Kadeen,
our journey is going to look very different, and we
have to curate it in a way where we get
to spend time with each other and the kids, because
we don't work well when we don't.
Speaker 7 (03:55):
See each other.
Speaker 9 (03:56):
When you see me looking my worst and Kate looking
at her words, it's because when not around each other
or the kids for a couple of weeks. So we
just finding time now to make sure we do both
and being deliberate about it.
Speaker 5 (04:06):
Yeah. And when he says a couple, that's intentional time, right,
because we'll be together sometimes in the same house days
going you know, weeks are going by and I'm just like, man,
I just miss my man, I miss my best friend
because we haven't made the intentional time to connect and
spend that quality time. You know, it's not enough just
(04:26):
to be you know, moving shifts in the house because
the kids have their activities, and we have work obligations,
and of course, like you said, taking time for ourselves
as individuals. Those are things that I think tended to
get kind of glazed over over the past years, and
only because our hearts were in the right place. We
really wanted to curate and build out a life for
(04:47):
ourselves where we did have autonomy over our time.
Speaker 8 (04:50):
And we realized like.
Speaker 5 (04:52):
Taking every gig, going to every event, trying to show
up in every interview that was starting to get really
really daunting after a while, and we to now kind
of regroup at the top of the year and really
decide collectively if we're going to take the gig or
if we're going to do an interview or a project or.
Speaker 8 (05:10):
Whatever it may be.
Speaker 5 (05:11):
Is it something that we really are invested in, and
is it something that's going to move the needle for
us and not just doing busy work to stay busy if.
Speaker 8 (05:18):
That makes sense.
Speaker 6 (05:21):
Do you all does it feel like pressure?
Speaker 1 (05:23):
If I were to say, you guys are an example
of you can have it all, meaning if you get
what I'm saying, marriage work, marriage and still doing your
individual dreams and goals, your work coming together producing or
(05:50):
is that a question that comes with some pressure because
some people might say when you said de Val, you
said it's going to look different for us us there
might be some people that say, one of y'all need
to take a step back.
Speaker 6 (06:06):
I'm not people.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
I'm excited because y'all are showing me, at least Kadeen
as a woman that although I do believe you do
have to do what works for you, that you can
still do your thing and be buried like.
Speaker 6 (06:26):
I love that.
Speaker 5 (06:27):
Yes, No, it's I don't think it's pressure at all.
I think we are showing an example to the masses
of how it can be done.
Speaker 8 (06:37):
I also feel.
Speaker 5 (06:38):
That God literally will create the perfect timing for whatever
it is that's supposed to creature fruition for us. So
at one point in time, devou was at the forefront,
like there was Sisters, there was the spinoffs, the Tima,
like all of the things were happening for him, which
the entire family and me is his wife. Knowing his
dream since the very beginning of our relationship, I was like, Babe,
(07:00):
it's your time, Like, we're going to rally behind you.
We're going to push you to the forefront. Whatever we
need to do. Home base is taking care of if
it means moving my parents in, your parents coming down
to help with the We have an amazing village, an
amazing family who really rally around us. So we understanding
that through God's timing, it just means that whoever's season
(07:22):
it is, whoever's moment is it is in that moment,
we just kind of push them forward and we rally
behind them. So it was devowed for sisters and the
team for a minute. Then it was the both of us,
you know, with the rebanding of the podcast, there was
the book, and then now for me getting the opportunity
with Tyler Perry for divorced sisters, you know, something that
I've been wanting to do for so long, but I
had taken fifteen years to really just build our family
(07:43):
and have our children and be so invested. Yeah, and
there was the you know, having the child, and then
there was rearing the child and then getting back and
then getting pregnant again.
Speaker 8 (07:51):
So I felt like for the past fifteen years that
was my focus.
Speaker 5 (07:55):
And then now I said, man, God gave me the
green light, you know, called me with this opportunity. And
it was amazing to see how my husband and our
family and the boys even just rallied behind me.
Speaker 8 (08:07):
And it was just like, Kadeen, that was your time.
Speaker 5 (08:09):
Go go do whatever it is you need to do.
Just do it and just know that we're at home
rooting for you. And that's been amazing.
Speaker 6 (08:16):
I love this so much.
Speaker 2 (08:21):
Brooklyn, New York.
Speaker 8 (08:22):
We're very, very big Brooklyn, New York.
Speaker 6 (08:25):
Yes, listen, I went to Brooklyn.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
Last week for some pizza because apparently one of the
top spots for.
Speaker 8 (08:34):
Pizza is Bridgie Malby.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
It was in park in Park Slope, just just set Panos.
Speaker 5 (08:42):
Probably probably was yeah everything pizza there.
Speaker 6 (08:46):
Yes, it was good. I'm going back and I'm taking
people with me.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
It was the good old traditional oven fired yeah, you know,
so that was that. That was amazing. And this spot,
by the way, please go. They're known for pizza. That's
their hero product. They don't do chicken wings. It's literally
just pizza, pizza. I appreciate you know what your bag is,
(09:17):
stay in that bag. Yeah, and it's and it's not
even pizza, it's they don't even have like eighty flavors.
You you they got five specialty pizzas, a calzone, beer, one,
and soda.
Speaker 6 (09:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
I say pop, but y'all probably say soda. I just yeah,
I have been wanting. I was told in order to
get really really good food, I had to get out
the city of Manhattan.
Speaker 5 (09:44):
It's the little mom and pop now, yes.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Yes, And now that the weather is warming up in
New York, I'm finding myself being able to be out
and discover So yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. De Val
and Kadem you both have interesting an interesting path into
art and entertainment. Just about former NFL player Kadeen Weather
(10:13):
reporter traffic reporter into acting. Do you guys both mind
sharing that journey just in case someone is listening that saying, Hey,
I'm a chef or I work in the finance department,
but I really want to be an actor. R.
Speaker 7 (10:36):
That's actually a really good question.
Speaker 9 (10:37):
I started off as an athlete only because I thought
that was the only way my journey was going.
Speaker 7 (10:41):
To carry me.
Speaker 9 (10:42):
Growing up in Brooklyn, there were no places directly that
taught young men that it was okay to be in
the arts.
Speaker 7 (10:48):
Think about Brooklyn in the nineties. If there were any
young men in the arts, they were considered soft. So
it was like you had to go play some sort
of ball or do something to not be considered soft.
Speaker 9 (10:58):
You know, we're talking about before people evolved in what
they know we know now. So I just played football
and basketball to go to school for free. It was like, hey,
I had a plan. My plan was to get my education.
Speaker 10 (11:10):
If I go to school for free, I was going
to graduate from school, get a job as a stockbroker,
get a Brownstone, live downstairs in the basement floor, and
ran out the upstairs floor so I didn't have to
be a starving artist.
Speaker 9 (11:20):
You know, Michelle, the arts is it's not very lucrative early.
So the way, yeah, football was a way for me
to get my family a foundation financially so that I
didn't have to struggle while pursuing what my real dreams are.
And it's funny you asked before about us doing things
differently than everyone else. We knew it was going to
be different because I knew kadein wanted to get in
(11:42):
the arts and I wanted to get in the arts,
and we neither wanted to sacrifice our career for the
family for long term. So, like she said, it was
whose turn is it? It just so happened that, Hey,
the valves opportunity broke first. So while my opportunity broke,
I continue to carry and bring my wife with me.
Let's do a podcast, Let's do a book, Let's do
(12:03):
something so that people can see your gifts so that
when your opportunity comes, they don't say why should we
get it?
Speaker 7 (12:08):
So it was all like a very cure raated.
Speaker 9 (12:10):
Plan for us to show our gifts through social media,
through other means so that once the acting opportunity come,
we can show them that we can do this as well.
Speaker 8 (12:18):
Yeah, I mean for me going to college, it was
a struggle for me in the beginning.
Speaker 5 (12:22):
My family is very heavily in the medical field, so
I have nurses, doctors, everything, So you know, when my
mom and dad kind of was just.
Speaker 8 (12:30):
Like, oh, this is you want to do community school communication.
What do you mean? What is that? You know, how
are you going to make money doing that?
Speaker 3 (12:35):
You know?
Speaker 6 (12:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (12:36):
And I was just like, well, you know, there's so
many different ways to do it because it's not the
conventional route for anyone. I think any artist, when you
listen to their journey and their story, it's all something
completely different, you know. So once I finally had the
courage to say, you know what, the medical feel is
not for me, my family of course supported me. I
ended up in Hofstra getting my degree and broadcasting when
I was doing undergrad and then went back to do
(12:56):
speech communication, rhetoric and performance because I also.
Speaker 8 (12:59):
Enjoyed acting as well.
Speaker 5 (13:01):
So now fast forward to where I am getting a
series regular role on Tyler Perry's new show Divorces say
that again, Dy Larry's and series regular on Tyler Perry's
Divorce Sisters. It's really a full circle moment for me
because it's just something.
Speaker 8 (13:18):
That I've always wanted to do for so long.
Speaker 5 (13:20):
I just getting small gigs and guest star roles here
and there, just to kind of keep my foot in
the game, and then finally leaving an opportunity, like in
this industry, all you want is someone to just say,
you know what, I'm going to give you a chance.
And getting that after so many years of wanting to
do this in this capacity.
Speaker 8 (13:36):
It's just I've literally been floating all year.
Speaker 5 (13:40):
It's been it's been amazing, the journey has been amazing, awesome.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Yeah, I'm I'm sitting here just smiling like a I'm
gonna say proud auntie because I feel like I'm older
than y'all, but.
Speaker 6 (13:49):
I don't want to say it. But I'm like, oh,
this is is so No.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
I was sitting here just want to be I'll have
so many amazing individual accolades, and then I was like,
how am I gonna respectfully do this interviewing y'all together?
Speaker 6 (14:09):
But I love seeing this so much. I really really
do this.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
I don't know how often you get this, but it
is hopeful. It's giving me hope. I hope I can
speak for others, giving people hope, lifting each other up.
Like you said, maybe somebody will have to take take
some time back while pushing the other person forward. How
(14:37):
have you been able to help other couples manage their
relationship like you said, because sometimes we might the man
is seen as.
Speaker 7 (14:48):
Well.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Traditionally, he is the provider, he is this, he is that.
But if he has to take a step back while
she goes forward, have you been able to help men
of maybe saying, yo, bro let her.
Speaker 8 (15:03):
Move her forward.
Speaker 7 (15:04):
Absolutely, that's part of it very early on. Yeah, part
of our story.
Speaker 9 (15:09):
Is being vulnerable so that people can understand that what
you think life is going to be is not always
God's plan, and you only want to make God laugh.
Tell him you got a plan for yourself. That's how
you really make God laugh. So I had to learn
early in our relationship that being a provider didn't only
mean finances, right. I just talked about this on another
interview where I was making a large part of the
(15:31):
money playing football, and then all of that got stripped
from me when I got cut, and for the first
time I had to lean on my wife to bring
in some money. And it wasn't just money. We didn't
have insurance. And these are things that people don't understand,
like when you're talking to couples and how you're going
to survive. Sometimes your wife may have to go to
work or do something just so that y'all can make it.
Speaker 7 (15:50):
And man, it's okay. Like at first I took it
as a blow.
Speaker 9 (15:54):
To my ego. I'm not gonna lie. I was like, Yo,
I'm supposed to pay all the bills. I'm supposed to
get insurance. I'm supposed to be the one. And I
felt like it wasn't fear to her that I'm asking
her to do some of these things. And it wasn't
until I started to speak to God and speak to myself,
and God was just like, bro, I never said that
you had to do all of these things all the time,
(16:16):
Like you need to start speaking to your wife about
what you need as a man so that she can
help provide that.
Speaker 7 (16:22):
And I was like, Okay, God, if this is what
you're saying, I gotta do. I'm gonna do it.
Speaker 9 (16:26):
The moment Michelle, I started focusing on telling her how
I felt, telling her what I needed, but also being
for her what she needed emotionally. Really, it just seemed
like our life just blossomed, like there were no more arguments.
Yeah we have discussions still, Yeah we still disagree on things,
but it's okay, you know what I'm saying. Okay, you disagree,
(16:47):
I disagree, how can we move forward? So I like
to tell men like yo, your job of what you
think being a provider is is not going to be
decided by how much money you make. There's so many
more things you have to provide as a man to
be there and also to I talk to women too
and say, listen, your husband may not feel comfortable telling
you how he feels because we've been conditioned to hold
(17:09):
things inside. Try your heart is to give him a
safe space. And when he's honest with you, try not
to shame him for it.
Speaker 7 (17:16):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 9 (17:17):
Try to understand where he's coming from. And I tell
husbands the same thing, like, your wife's going to tell
you what she need, and when you ask, don't shame her.
You asked her to you, let's okay. So that's typically
my message to.
Speaker 5 (17:30):
To I mean, that's that's He's spot on with everything
he says. It's been necessary pressure that I felt Deval
had put on himself in our early years because he
never vocalized to me that that that was his plan.
Of course, he said, you know, now that you're my wife,
I want you to be taken care of.
Speaker 8 (17:47):
It's my duty to do that.
Speaker 5 (17:48):
But me being a team player as well, knowing that
we're going to do this together, I'm like, listen, if
I'm better equipped in this moment to you know, push
the family forward, then pass me the torch passed me
the time, and I'm going to run the flag, you know.
Speaker 8 (18:02):
And that happened early on in our relationship.
Speaker 5 (18:03):
Once he got cut and we had to move back
to Brooklyn, we went to his grandmother's old apartment that
she had rent stabilized for like thirty something years, and
when we sat in the room together, it's like, Okay,
we both need to figure out a way to make.
Speaker 8 (18:15):
Ends meet and make some money. And I was like, hey, I.
Speaker 5 (18:17):
Was working part time at mac Cosmetics when we lived
in Detroit together.
Speaker 8 (18:21):
I said, yo.
Speaker 5 (18:22):
He said, oh, you think you can get a job
here in Brooklyn And I'm like, you know what, Let
me dry And that day, same day, moment I put
some makeup on, put on my all black turk, off,
my engagement ring, put it in the jewelry box, I
got on the bus and I went to King's Plaza
shopping mall in Brooklyn to get a job. And I
was the one that was holding down the fort for
a bit. We ended up having our first son shortly
(18:42):
after that, and Deva was a stay at home dad
and I was the one working at.
Speaker 6 (18:46):
The time, and I just.
Speaker 8 (18:48):
Felt like I'm doing my part.
Speaker 5 (18:49):
I felt good as a woman, like man like our
son is taking care of with his dad, and I'm
the one right now that's in the workforce until he
was able to pick up his training business.
Speaker 7 (18:59):
And all that didn't feel good. I didn't.
Speaker 9 (19:01):
It was hard for you to deal with that, but
it felt good to have a partner who had my back.
Speaker 7 (19:06):
Like.
Speaker 9 (19:06):
She didn't just say, OK, rough around here, I'm out.
She was like, yo, what do I gotta do? And
I was just like, yo, if you can just make
sure we got insurance when this baby comes, we Gucci.
So she got enough hours to get insurance. I was
still busting my tail. I was a stay at home dad,
but I was picking up shifts. I was a substitute teacher.
I worked as a color commentator for MSG Varsity.
Speaker 7 (19:26):
I was working summer schools. I was doing everything to
just you know, strap money together.
Speaker 6 (19:31):
Yeah, this is.
Speaker 7 (19:33):
Where you say, you know, can everybody have it all? Yes?
Everybody can have it all. If you have a.
Speaker 9 (19:37):
Person and you use discernment to decide, like this is
the person I'm gonna do life with.
Speaker 7 (19:42):
You can have it all. You just can't have it
all at the same time. That's the thing.
Speaker 9 (19:47):
You want to have everything at twenty five, it's impossible,
Like we're forty, just starting to feel like we're having
it all, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 8 (19:55):
And that's why our podcast has been so pale.
Speaker 5 (19:57):
So when you ask about, you know, couples and other
relationships and have people.
Speaker 8 (20:01):
Talked about, yeah, I feel like this is literally.
Speaker 5 (20:03):
Our podcast is like is anyone else feeling the way
we feel? And that it's also become kind of like
our ministry at this point. You know, we've had so
many couples I can't tell you, Michelle countless people who
have come to us either when we're in public and
they run into us, or they send in listener letters
for emails and talk about our podcast and listening to
the things that we discuss has helped them save their marriage,
(20:26):
you know, learn how to communicate better with their spouse.
So people have even said they read our book and
they realize that they do not want to be married. Yes,
because if marriage is being of service to.
Speaker 8 (20:36):
Your partner for the you know, the rest of your life,
then I'm not equipped to do that. And that's also okay.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
That's so when you talk about about marriage being of service, Kadeen,
he said, this almost is our ministry because I do
feel something absolutely special. When I say special, I mean divine.
When I say divine. Israel Holton has a song called
Jesus Be the Center of it All, and I think
(21:07):
sometimes the only way something can withstand the pressure and
the hard times is your foundation. So I was so
happy to hear you say that, Kadin, when you said
you got a job at King's Plasm, put your ring gate,
(21:29):
put your ring in the drawer, got on the bus.
Was there an innate de value you use the word discernment.
Was there an innate thing that said, I'm gonna do
this because I.
Speaker 6 (21:42):
Know we're gonna make it, or I'm gonna.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Do this because no matter if we're still here, I
love him.
Speaker 5 (21:50):
We're gonna be.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
That's good because you know, you know how people say, honey,
if we was in a car Moore.
Speaker 6 (21:59):
Boxes loan with you, uh huh.
Speaker 8 (22:03):
You know what, it definitely is a little bit of both.
Speaker 5 (22:06):
I felt genuinely devout up until that point because we
started dating in college at eighteen, but we knew each
other since elementary school. Right, The man that he showed
himself to be over those yes.
Speaker 8 (22:20):
At that point, what was it seven years? The man
that he had shown himself to be already. Hadn't you
so invested?
Speaker 5 (22:28):
Because I'm like, this man is has been a man
of his word up until this point. And he said
to me, he was like, Kaden, this won't be it
for everything. He's like, let me just try to figure
things out. And for me, I was just like, as
long as I have you and we're doing this together,
I don't care what we do it.
Speaker 8 (22:44):
You can tell me, hey, we're gonna go to.
Speaker 5 (22:46):
The moon on Friday and then on Saturday we'll be
back in time for lunch and I'd be like, okay,
we we wearing what are packing? Like?
Speaker 8 (22:53):
That's how I held.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Did you believe her?
Speaker 6 (22:56):
Did you believe her about because man could be like because.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
There is a thing in a man that wants to
have and be and have all things for his wife
and family. Did you believe her when she said, baby,
I got you. I'm here no matter what.
Speaker 7 (23:11):
I'm gonna tell you. When I believed her? At first?
Speaker 9 (23:14):
At first I didn't believe her because I didn't believe myself.
I didn't believe where we were, so I couldn't even
fathom believing that she would want to stay here because
I was got I'm like, why are we even back
in Brooklyn?
Speaker 8 (23:25):
Like?
Speaker 9 (23:25):
I did everything I was supposed to do. I went
to every meeting on time, I was early, I participated well,
I performed well. I saved my money, I invested my money.
It just so happened at the stock market crash and
the housing bubble burst in two thousand and nine, so
all the investments I made had all come bottomed out.
So I couldn't even fathom her believing her, because I
(23:45):
was like, I don't even know how we're here. And
then when she said I'm gonna go work at MAC,
and she started working at MAC, and I was pissed
because there were holidays where she had to work and
we couldn't spend time together. I was like, Yo, she
really she's really doing this, Like she really don't care.
She will come home and be happy and excited. This
is what did it for me. I said, Hey, we
can be out of here in five years. We can't
(24:07):
go on no vacations, we can't buy no designer clothes.
I'm gonna turn to my outia seven. I'm gonna take
the train. And she said as rock and for five years, Michelle,
this is the part people don't ever want to. When
they talk about our story story, they can't forget this part.
Speaker 7 (24:24):
For five years, Michelle.
Speaker 9 (24:25):
We spent no money doing anything. We ate grits and eggs.
We saved every penny to be able to move to
La to start our dream. And whenever I tell his story,
people be like, celebrities, be so out of touch. Ain't
nobody saving for five years? I said, I wasn't a
celebrity when I was saving for five years. I was
a gym teacher and my wife was a makeup artist.
(24:46):
You know us as celebrities now because of the sacrifices
we took in and the sacrifices we did together. It
wasn't one person sacrificing. You know how hard it is
for a woman to be kept, be in a house,
have a big rain, she has a driveway backyard. And
then her fiance said, Yo, we got to move back
to Brooklyn Crown Heights, live in my grandmother's apartment, and you.
Speaker 7 (25:08):
Got to go back to work.
Speaker 9 (25:09):
You know how hard it is for a man to
have to tell us his girl that, and how hard
it is for a woman to accept that that.
Speaker 7 (25:16):
That's our story. When people discuss, like what is it
about y'all. We believe in each other.
Speaker 5 (25:21):
Yo.
Speaker 9 (25:22):
When I told this woman what I wanted to do
with my life, she said, okay, but how we gonna
get there?
Speaker 8 (25:26):
Because I was like, this is our first day? I was,
but shit, I said, first day, honey. I said, so
what we're gonna do to give these dreams happen?
Speaker 7 (25:32):
Baby?
Speaker 8 (25:33):
How we gonna get on TV?
Speaker 6 (25:34):
Together? But I was, I was like, I was like,
she believed me, Come on, all right?
Speaker 9 (25:41):
And then the lesson's history, like this is my this
is my my dog, bro, Like there's nothing, there's nobody
in this world. There's no thing in this world that
can take her place. And I say this whole heartedly.
Not even my kids, not even my kids, nothing can
take their mom's place. This is my partner, Like this
is I can't say it anymore. And I'm so happy
(26:03):
for her, Like.
Speaker 6 (26:04):
Get a room, a moment she gets to go out there.
Speaker 7 (26:09):
I want to see her.
Speaker 8 (26:11):
But he's just sitting back there and just smiling. Randomly,
He'll walk past the house, meet the house and he
just be smiling. I'm like, what's the man? He's like,
I'm just so proud of you.
Speaker 5 (26:19):
I you know, you know how I felt all these
years when everything was coming to fruation for you.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Ellis after after y'all's new podcast, co producers of Old
Fellow on Broadway, such amazing things the team of Sisters
Divorced Sisters on b ET plus best selling book Too
We Over Me, as you just said, you know it
(26:49):
is we over me.
Speaker 6 (26:50):
But at the same time, I choose you for any
and everything. You daily.
Speaker 7 (27:02):
It's over me, but I choose you daily. That's fire.
Speaker 8 (27:06):
It'st this book.
Speaker 7 (27:08):
Two sequelook, Yes, I choose you daily, Yes.
Speaker 6 (27:15):
Daily.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
My podcast, the foundation of it is mental health. Y'all
have been very open and vulnerable about how you really feel.
Speaker 6 (27:31):
If you don't mind me asking, how are you really doing?
Speaker 1 (27:38):
M And I'm not saying that this conversation was not real,
because it absolutely is.
Speaker 6 (27:46):
How are y'all doing?
Speaker 5 (27:48):
You?
Speaker 7 (27:48):
Want some truth?
Speaker 9 (27:49):
Truth?
Speaker 8 (27:50):
Yes?
Speaker 7 (27:51):
One thing I'm known for is given the truth.
Speaker 9 (27:53):
And that's why it's polarizing because some things I say
people don't agree with and I don't care. It's hard
sometimes to be honest because I'm living in my truth
that I know a lot of people have never seen before.
Speaker 7 (28:08):
They've never seen a man be this faithful.
Speaker 9 (28:11):
And love his woman outwardly as much and love his
kids as much as I'm showing. And I'm doing it
purposely because I know a lot of people have.
Speaker 7 (28:19):
Never seen it.
Speaker 9 (28:20):
But sometimes it's get hard because people try to project
on you and be like, oh.
Speaker 7 (28:24):
He's fake.
Speaker 9 (28:25):
He don't really love Kadem that much, you don't love
his kids that much. If you want, honestly, I'll tell
you the truth. I can't even show you.
Speaker 7 (28:32):
How I love my kids, how much I love my wife.
Speaker 9 (28:35):
I also can't even show you on this internet how
much I love my own people. And it gets time
and some time because I like to show it, and
I always get backlash sometimes from my own people, and
I understand it's because they've never seen it before, so
I don't get upset at them. I don't take it personally.
It's just hard and it's exhausting at times because it's
(28:55):
like I'm really.
Speaker 7 (28:56):
Just being myself. I love her more than anything, and
I love my kids.
Speaker 9 (29:00):
Is in my life and I just want to share it,
and it gets exhausting when people try to pinpoint things
or project what they're going through. Oh he's faking, because
he really And it's like I'm not like I could
do more. If y'all think I'm extra down to my wife, I.
Speaker 7 (29:14):
Could be even.
Speaker 9 (29:15):
You know how much times I've wanted to postuff and
k be like the value you can't and I'd like,
but I just love y'all so much. Like that's the
hardest thing when people ask me like how are you feeling?
And I always want to say I'm good, and sometimes
I don't be good, like it's okay. Yeah, it's like
I'm not good sometimes, Like I don't want to let
people in all the time, but I feel like this
(29:37):
is God telling me we need to because they need
to on each other like this. They see us fight
all the time. Right, if you turn on the internet,
you see people fighting all time.
Speaker 7 (29:47):
How about you.
Speaker 9 (29:47):
See people loving each other and just say it's okay.
Speaker 6 (29:51):
How about that?
Speaker 2 (29:52):
How about all about that's my truth?
Speaker 8 (29:55):
Yes, No, that's that's great, babe.
Speaker 5 (29:57):
I think we both have kind of realized how exhausting
it can be on social media, So we have recently
and more recently, I should say, have been like conditioning
ourselves saying, you know what, social media is not.
Speaker 8 (30:14):
A real place.
Speaker 5 (30:17):
Real life being present in moments like this is where
life exists and I think if more people realize and
understood like life really happens in real life, then then
there would be a lot less of that daunting energy
that you let into your space. So for me, Michelle,
I am very purposeful now in order to be okay.
(30:39):
I'm purposeful about disconnecting from that world and that space.
Speaker 8 (30:44):
I feel my best when I.
Speaker 5 (30:46):
Am living and I'm existing in real life with my
husband and my children, who are right down stick you
want and up and down here like this is the
joy for me is being present in this space, taking
time with my boys. I just took my oldest son
on a day overnight trip to DC to catch the
Kendrick Laurens's the concert, the last one he had in
(31:07):
the US, and that was because I was busy working
and had to do press for the show and I
couldn't take him to another show. And it's like those
moments where I'm just like, man, I'm just soaking it
up because life is so fleeting.
Speaker 8 (31:18):
Time is a thief.
Speaker 5 (31:19):
You see it when you have children and you realize
I was just pregnant like yesterday, and you're fourteen and you're.
Speaker 8 (31:25):
Taller than me.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
How did we get here?
Speaker 6 (31:27):
You know?
Speaker 8 (31:27):
So pres girl, preserving mine.
Speaker 6 (31:30):
I will say this.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
Now, when you said you all are showing people something
that they have never seen. Meaning when you to the
people that maybe are projecting, maybe they're actually projecting because
that's they desire what they see. And y'all, and it
seems like I wrote this down when you said that
(31:53):
chain breakers and cycle breakers helping, and you become a
cycle breaker because of what you choose daily.
Speaker 7 (32:05):
Yes, yes, yes, you shall come on.
Speaker 9 (32:08):
That is that is literally it though, that is it
seems so simple, right, But you choose to do the
right thing daily, not this one time.
Speaker 7 (32:18):
I wake up every morning and I'm going to do
the right thing.
Speaker 9 (32:20):
I'm gonna be faithful to my wife, I'm going to
love my kids, I'm gonna work hard, I'm gonna be
on time.
Speaker 7 (32:26):
And you just choose to do that daily.
Speaker 8 (32:28):
That becomes your reality.
Speaker 7 (32:29):
Yes, yes, And so.
Speaker 6 (32:33):
Kadeen and develop individually.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
Only you know what cycles or patterns that you probably
needed to unlearn and break. But we only can do
that because of, like you said, what we choose to
do data daily.
Speaker 8 (32:52):
That's what I don't think does it become a Habit takes.
Speaker 9 (32:55):
Thousands of thousands of rest before a muscle movement becomes habit.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
Yeah mm hmm. And I'm so excited that we got
to have this opportunity to talk.
Speaker 6 (33:07):
This is going to be off the chain.
Speaker 7 (33:11):
It's blessing me.
Speaker 6 (33:12):
Thank you.
Speaker 7 (33:16):
I knew you could bless us.
Speaker 9 (33:17):
And this is why we were so interested in getting
this conversation, because you what you've been doing for such
a long time and being in the public eye, I'd
be willing to ask people like, how do y'all deal
because Michelle, it don't matter what you do, there's always
going to be somebody that's going to find something negative
to say about You.
Speaker 7 (33:34):
Could be feeding the homeless and they're gonna be like,
they're just feeding the homeless because they want people to
see they got money.
Speaker 6 (33:39):
It's like I just came to feed the horns.
Speaker 7 (33:42):
How do you deal with How do you deal with that?
I really want to know you.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Don't you actually just but I empathize with what you
were saying. You want people to know how authentic you
are and you're being real.
Speaker 6 (34:00):
But when you realize.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
It, like there is no magical or theological response other
than you just have to continue doing.
Speaker 5 (34:13):
Right.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
There's always going to be somebody. Since the beginning of time.
Someone always criticizing the good that someone else is doing
because it also probably reminds them of what they're not doing.
Speaker 8 (34:31):
We talked about that with mediocrity.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
It's like unfortunate that can come, that will even come
from family or friends.
Speaker 6 (34:41):
It don't take all that, yes to do.
Speaker 7 (34:43):
We got the.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
Kids to do.
Speaker 5 (34:47):
And if you don't need help and all the things
that we were doing that was the most, Now you
need help.
Speaker 6 (34:52):
So yeah, I don't do the most.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
You lose access to what I have too because I'm
a sharer, I'm a giver.
Speaker 6 (35:02):
But yeah, it do take all that, literally got it.
Don't take all that. It takes all of that.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
I cannot wait till one day I could be like, y'all,
I got both kids.
Speaker 6 (35:16):
You're right, I can't do that. I can't give you.
Speaker 7 (35:18):
They got tuition right now.
Speaker 6 (35:22):
I love y'all so much.
Speaker 7 (35:24):
It's been.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
I have had all the talking points and all the
questions to ask, but I love how this flowed. But
still being respectful of y'all's amazing resume. Again, thank y'all
for being here and checking in.
Speaker 8 (35:42):
Thank you you being amazing.
Speaker 5 (35:43):
Congratulations on everything you have going on show in New York.
Speaker 6 (35:49):
Y'all, come on in, come on in, come on. We'll
let you know when we're coming.
Speaker 7 (35:53):
Please do.
Speaker 6 (35:54):
I'll see y'all soon.
Speaker 8 (35:55):
All right, love you take care of listens to y'all.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Bye, all right, y'all listen. Okay.
Speaker 4 (36:05):
I think this episode is where you hear love in action.
Speaker 6 (36:16):
You hear what it takes.
Speaker 4 (36:19):
When you choose to love daily. It really seems like
it's a daily thing, choosing to love what you can
do with your pain and how you can turn it
into power and purpose, especially when you stay locked in
(36:41):
with the one you love. Thank y'all so much for
tuning in. Let me know your takeaways from this episode.
I feel it was really special. I still have goosebumps,
Like literally, y'all, I literally still have goosebumps from this
conversation until next time.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
Checking In with Michelle Williams is a production of iHeartRadio
and The Black Effect. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit
the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
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