November 4, 2025 • 34 mins
On this episode, Michelle sits down with pastor, teacher, mentor, and bestselling author Dr. Joel Tudman to dive deep into his new book The Fight to Find Yourself. Michelle and Dr. Tudman talk about the masks we wear to earn acceptance, how trauma can disconnect us from our truth, and the freedom that comes from recognizing that we are loved even in our lowest moments. With relatable stories, spiritual insight, and practical tools for emotional growth, this conversation will challenge you to look inward, embrace who God created you to be, and accept that you are already enough. CHECK IN to this episode if you’re seeking healing, clarity, or the courage to take ownership of your life’s purpose!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Checking In with Michelle Williams, a production of
iHeartRadio and The Black Effect.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Hey, you do you know who you are?
Speaker 3 (00:17):
If you don't, do you know that you are worth
fighting for your worth searching for who you really are?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
And it's okay.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Once you find out, Man, this is who you really are.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
If that's you, stay tuned for this life changing episode
of Checking In. Okay, everybody, welcome to another amazing episode
of Checking In. I'm telling y'all, week after week the
guests get better and better and better. Today, I am
truly truly excited, thrilled, and humbled. Some of y'all be
(00:55):
saying honored when you should be saying humbled. I am
humbled to have my friend, my brother, doctor Joel Tudman,
the author of the best selling book that's it, The
Fight to find Yourself, Author, teacher, pastor, mentor, coach, many
(01:19):
many things, and we're going to get to all of
that again. His new book, The Fight to find Yourself
is available and we're going to talk about it right now.
He is based in Florida. Got some great things going
from Oklahoma, Dallas to Florida. We're going to talk about
that and where we can find him a little bit.
Towards the end of this interview, doctor Tubman, welcome.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
Hey, thank you so much for allowing me to come
into your space. You are an amazing accomplished author, singer, dancer, preacher, actor, actress,
all those things, right, come on here, So it's no
but it's one. Well, thank you for having me many things.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
I'm jealous of the palm trees and all that stuff
going on in the background. It's so great and gloomy
in New York City.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
Automobiles and honking horns and people walking and cussing.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
That's what you got mad because it stinks some big rats.
Listen why he's so big here before that's the next book.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Listen.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
We were naming all kinds of things that we are also, y'all.
I didn't mention he's also a husband, a son, a father,
a friend, and so we're naming all these things that
we are that the world knows that we are. But
in there do we know who we are to ourselves?
(02:54):
And that's what the fight to find yourself is.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Doctor. I was reading this book.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
I chose to read some of it in the hair salon,
because you know, when we stand in the hair salon
for hours, and I knew this was going to be
a page turner. So I'm sitting in the in the
chair saying, oh my god, this is so good. Oh
this is good, and people are looking at me because
I don't have food in my hand.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
I don't have a drink in my hand.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
The book is so good, it is amazing. It had
me in a choke hold in the introduction. It's so surgical.
And I'm going to say this, and.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
We're going to interview, but it may be it may be.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Almost nervous to read the rest, really, because it checked
me in the introduction. Wow, it was like doing surgery
on me in the introduction.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
No anesthesia.
Speaker 4 (03:52):
Well you know that's painful.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
But I think some of the things that we need
can't always come with sugar on the side.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
The truth. I'm so glad you said that. But we're
in such a society it loves the sugar, and you
have to figure out how do you infuse a little
sweetness with the salt in today's society.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Look literally, in one of your chapters of the book,
break Down or Breakthrough, one of the sub things was
learning to receive correction.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
But we're going to get there. I want to know
this book how and why? How did it come about?
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Why did you decide now, let me write this book,
even though you probably wrote it a couple of years ago,
because it takes a couple of years before it to
get to our hands. But at the time, why the
fight to find yourself?
Speaker 4 (04:40):
Because it took so long to do it? And because
it took so long to do it, I had grown
past the phase of trying to prove myself to people.
I spent the majority of my life trying to fit
into circles that add no room for me. And as
gifted as I was, I still been feel that I
(05:03):
had the gift that be accepted into the rooms that
I thought I should be in. I was in certain rooms,
but those weren't the rooms I wanted to be in.
Those weren't the people I wanted to be around. I
have my eyes fixed, like, if I get there, I
know that these doors are going to kick over for me,
(05:24):
life is going to change. So I turned my life
to follow a pattern of what I thought would be
my next and it never was. And so I've lived
a series of that, trying to become, trying to become,
trying to do trying to do and none of it
(05:45):
got me anywhere. So over the course of time and
getting the right mentorship, yeah, and someone stripping your lens
and cutting through all of the facades, all of the
decorated mask that you put on. He cut through it,
and it disrupted all of my thinking. It disrupted every
(06:10):
pattern that I had built, and so there was a
lot of internal healing that took place, but there was
still a lot of bleeding that was going on. And
in the process of that, I decided, let me document
what I'm going through because this doesn't feel good, but
I've understood over time there's all gold inside of every
(06:34):
situation that you're going through. So for me going through
the right mentorship, uncovering and understanding that I'm okay the
way I am and that I may never enter those circles,
and that's absolutely okay. Once I realized that and I
got stripped cut and then two critical deaths, my son's
(06:55):
debt and my father's death. After those two deaths, everything unfolded.
Everything that he was teaching me started making sense to me,
and trying to do all of this stuff to fit
in these rooms where nobody opened the door for me.
Don't all the matter. I realized I'm a door, I'm
(07:18):
a prize, I am worth the time. What he's given
me is a blueprint, blueplint, blueprint within itself. But it
took time to strip through everything that I have built
that I thought was good, that was absolutely killing me.
(07:40):
And then I realized, I think it's trying to release
all the stuff that I love.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
And that there in itself. Y'all think, I think, y'all
can hear? Is a process, is a journey. Some of
us don't realize when they I've heard the saying what
do you bring to the table. It takes a while
for people say I am the table.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
It takes a lot time for you to realize that
you are at the table because you know you got
the goods. Yeah, you can have every piece that everybody's
looking for, but that doesn't mean that you recognize what
you bring. And a lot of times that doesn't happen
(08:23):
until you realize who you are. Because, again I talk
about in the book, we become known for what we
do before we know who we are. Depending on how
popular you get, especially in your shoes, I mean, you
blew up if you didn't have good people in your life,
taught you the value of who you guys were, your family,
(08:43):
what you stood for, what you stand for. To unravel
the gifts and then unravel you, then that's a possibility
that the world could have picked you up, spit you
out of crumpled you in the pieces.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
And some of that is the world's purpose is to
try to do.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
All the things.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
I want to go back to something that you were
saying about trying to fit in and as I was thinking,
it seems like some of the most gifted people fit
in don't fit in anywhere. Two some of the rooms
that you want to fit in, you're actually better than them.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
Three.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Some of the rooms don't want you in the room.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Because if you get in the room, the attention turns
from them to you.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
And you just walked in.
Speaker 4 (09:42):
You didn't say nothing is something. You just right down
the list so profoundly because I just exactly the process
once I got into some of those rooms, and look,
it just happened.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
You shouldn't some of these rooms book.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
He talked about it in the book. He's not saying anything,
y'all that's not in the book. The Fight to find Yourself.
Speaker 4 (10:06):
Just walked in and I'm like I was trying to
get here. You mean to tell me I was breaking
my neck to get here and this is nothing, This
is absolutely nothing. You're you know, I don't even want
to say that. I was gonna say you're terrible, but
that's not a great thing to say. But I'm breaking
my neck to try to meet a certain person and
(10:28):
get in a certain person's face. And when I get
to that person, I'm like what.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
I'm saying, I'd rather be at Texas Roadhouse getting them
hot rolls with the butter. And y'all were saying this
for a reason, because you are a force within yourself,
like owning and embracing what God has given you. We
want to teach y'all there are certain places that you're
fighting to be that the reason why sometimes you're not
there is for your protection and your preservation.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
Oh that's so powerful and it's so beautiful because if
you don't know, you spend so much time keeping the
real youth from coming into a world that you were
supposed to dominate, not just be a part of.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Damn a very good come on dominy.
Speaker 4 (11:11):
And you don't know what you can dominate if you're
being dominated by constant thoughts of trying to pleagurize your life.
I talk about identity foreclosure in the book where you
have tried to be the next Michelle, You tried to
be the next Beyonce, You tried to be the next Kelly,
for the.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Next doctor Joel. We want to holler like you, we
want to teach like you.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
Whatever you want to call But at the end of
the day, here's it's okay to set your eyes on
them and to say I want to be like them.
But at the end of the day, if you don't
find out who you are, you will foreclosed on someone
who has a lane that has carved out for themselves.
If you're going to build destiny and other people that
(11:57):
want to be exactly like you, and you've proposed on that.
So you've got to find the fire to dig through
everything traumaticness happened to you. That's the dirtiest part of
finding yourself is digging through the trauma, and some of
the trauma, if you're not careful, you'll forget that you
(12:17):
actually went through certain things.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
Sorry about the loss of your father and your son,
and we can still say sorry today even though it
happened a couple of years ago. Because the pain it's
still there. And you were saying you didn't know how
much you forgot that you had a moment with your dad.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
God. I had so much animosity with my father that
when I wrote the book and I was adding a
piece into the book, I said, wait a minute, that
hand that was on my back was my dad's and
it snapped. I broken at and started crying that so
(13:00):
much innermosky against him, about what I thought he should
have done and all of that stuff. And while I'm
writing the book and I'm talking about the trauma from
my son, the one hand that touched my back, go ahead,
(13:21):
do what you need to do. I'll never forget it.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
You need to do Yeah, And I screamed so.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
Loud outside and I went back inside together myself like
U lichized my son, you.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Were able to do it from my dad's books.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
And it's amazing because the voice that we sometimes need
is the voice of our father. And my heart is
going out to people who don't have that, who are
fighting to get that, especially when you have a father
that's still alive. I'll say there were things that I
(13:58):
held against my father, really because sometimes as a little girl,
we have ideas of how we want Daddy to be
and what we think he should be, but then not
understand that there are dynamics between him and Mommy that
we don't quite understand. And I didn't get it. I
(14:19):
couldn't forgive until I started going to therapy. Not excusing
a lot of things that happened, but understanding, Oh, they
was going through their own stuff. It was hard for
him to be who I needed him to be because
he couldn't be who he needed to be as a
husband and as a son. And it's I think everything
is so layered because our parents have their own stuff
(14:42):
from their parents.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
Yes, yes, And you know what, I'm glad that you
broke it down like that because I tried to kind
of walk through that. You do that as you start
correcting things and you start going through what you've been
through and you start realizing just what you said. This
is connected to that, This is connected to this, This
(15:05):
is connected to this. The reason why I can't show
up here because I got to go there, And if
I can't show up there, it's because I had to
be here. And at the end of the day, everybody's
mad because I'm not there at all places at the
same time, and it takes years for a teenager to
grow up and then get exactly what you said, understand understanding.
(15:28):
But Michelle, I need to interrupt your business. It takes
years to get the understanding, but there's still years of
damage because nobody understands until And so my hope is
that you can get this book on the front side
and understand while you don't understand, because there's still your
(15:54):
father still wounded in the process, Michelle, still wounded in
the process, your mother is still wounded in the process us.
But if we could some kind of way course correct
and make correction cultural, make correction normal, then nobody's going
to be so wounded when we don't understand. It becomes
a part of a process of learning and we absolutely
(16:17):
different way. I hope that makes.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
Sense, absolutely, And also getting trying to lay aside the thought,
well it's too late. I'm in my thirties now, it's
too late to correct it, or children not accepting that
your parents are doing the work to correct damage that
(16:39):
they've done.
Speaker 4 (16:40):
You know, I was in Dallas and I was angry
with my father, and Bishop Jake's says to me, he says,
you know, your dad was your age when you were young.
Think about how you feel right now. Dang, I ain't
(17:01):
think about it like that, he said, So give your
dad some breaks. There's times for even worse back when
your dad was your age. Now. Yeah, when you go
talk to your father, go talk to him with sylympathy
as a man understanding with me. You know it's and
(17:21):
that really started shrinking the issues becuse I was like, man,
I've got some of the same problems.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Some of the same problems or things that you'll find
upset about your mom, about your dad.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
And then I look in the mirror like you are
Anita Williams too.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
To niet Michelle, you are Dennis Williams. My dad passed
in twenty twenty and I literally found myself looking at
pictures from of him the other day because I'm in
the phase where I'm missing him. But I know why
I'm missing him. His birthday is coming up, his passing
is coming up, and so I'm choosing to smile.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
But yet but yet more.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
But I want to tell you, doctor Joel Tuttman, that
so many people will identify with your story. But I'm
glad you wrote this book because people are going to
be able to identify with the healing as well. This book, y'all,
this book is a guide. There are amazing prompts at
(18:26):
the end of a book. And in one chapter I
was like, I got to write this thing down where
you were like, what is one of the most difficult
things you're dealing with.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
In your fight? And you gave three three prompts of
what it could be.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
And I was like, let me write, let me write
this down. But healing can begin even y'all that are
listening when you choose to even write something down that
you're fighting with, not only write it, but begin to
say it. Story that you even told about your father
in the fight to find yourself, that's a movie when
(19:07):
you were in the hospital and you were praying the
Sentaer's prayer. Yeah, yeah, So I think sometimes my question
do you think sometimes the fight within ourselves as far
as identity is concerned. Do you think do you find
that with the people you've mentored and coached and pastored
(19:27):
through the years, the ones of us who have dealt
with identity in who we are, does it always come
from broken homes or those who are fatherless.
Speaker 4 (19:39):
I'm not gonna say that it always comes from.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
Issues okay, yes, sir, Well, I don't think that's the
thank you for saying that.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
By the way, issues that's great.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
And some issues. Sometimes it's just a lack of information,
I will say, lack lack of information, lack of love,
a lack of opportunity. I think with my father it
was a lack now that I understood, it was a
lack of time, a lack of opportunity because he and
(20:12):
my mother got a divorce. He didn't divorce us, He
divorced my mother and when he left Mount Pleasant he
moved to Texas, Canada, Texas, which was an hour and
a half away. As a kid, your mine is he's
just an hour and a half away. Oh man. He
has a job, he has a church, he has to
(20:33):
go to sleep, he has to still be his spouse,
he has to still have responsibilities in his career. There's
only so many hours of day. And he did get
the opportunity to see us. So there was a lack
of time, a lack of so I think that it's
more so a lack of something, not necessarily brokenness. Now
(20:58):
can a lack of something create eight brokenis absolutely okay,
but not necessarily okay. He doesn't you don't have to
necessarily be broken to not know who you are. You
just don't have the opportunity, nor do you have the
guide the people to help inform you. This is why.
(21:20):
And I know I take a long time to answer
the questions.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
I'm sorry, No, it's great, it's great.
Speaker 4 (21:25):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
I guess long. But when you want to tarry a
little longer, you can.
Speaker 4 (21:30):
I don't want to tarry. That's why I opened the
chapter of the book this way. Jesus is coming into
the Jordan River to be baptized. John the Baptist points
and none said, that's the one, all right. It comes
to take a breast sense of the world. He baptize
(21:50):
is Jesus a John's voices, and we hears first Jesus
goes down in the water, he comes up out of
the water, and then his father's voice speaks, behold, this
is my beloved son. And wells the whole primises of
the If you don't have a natural father, if you
don't have a guard, you have a God that loves
(22:13):
you where you are, and you have to embrace that.
You are the beloved of God. And it has taken
me all those years, even though I've preached in his name,
I've sang in his name, I have laid on hands
with his name, I have sung prophetic songs in his name.
All of that stuff that I've been able to do
(22:34):
as the annoying comes upon you. But the one thing
I didn't open myself up to with the annoying was
that he loved me trouble, without preaching, without playing football,
without being a husband, without being a father, without having together,
he loves be. And once I came to the conclusion,
(22:56):
and it's taken my into my life to realize that
he he loves me to me, who is the blackest
black sheep of my family, because I made so many
mistakes that I've spent all those years pursued trying to
get in those circles so that everybody would see me
a different way. I realized he loved that meat. The
(23:20):
broken disgusted me. And that's where the door begins. When
you can realize that he loves you at your lowest,
because Jordan was at the lowest and amount the Mount
Transfiguration was the highest. He says it again, this is
my beloved son. Yes, yes, So once you realize that
(23:42):
he loves you, at your lowest, he loves you at
your highest everything in between, he's with you. I mean,
he's got and you don't have to be afraid to be.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
Again. It's in your book about excepting, accepting, accepting what
you're saying, and accepting who you are with.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
All the flaws. We like ourselves when we're done.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
Up, hair is done, braids groomed. You know, women, we
like our our nails are done. But can you like yourself? Ladies,
when you when you don't win about two to three
weeks and you don't have that feel, can you accept
I'm still dope even when I need a fill.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Okay without it?
Speaker 3 (24:35):
Come on, I'm still dope without extensions. Please people, you
know you you are worth fighting for. I was I
was thinking of something this morning and then I wrote down.
I said, why is it a fight though to find ourselves?
You do answer it in a book, but I'm like,
it's easier to find AirPods. You have a freaking app
(24:58):
on your phone to help you find find items. But
then I was like, well, we do have the Bible
to help us find ourselves. We have God, the one
who created us, to help us find ourselves. But the
I was just like the fight. Why is it a
fight when it's easier to find other things, it's easier
(25:19):
to find bad relationships.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
Is that something that is such a great question, and
it's such a true reality. Most of us don't like ourselves.
We like what we've created, and because other people like
what we created, we created it for other people to like.
We didn't even create it for ourselves. We created it
(25:42):
so that other people would invite us into those circles.
And so over the process of time, because right back
to what I told you, you end up foreclosing on you. Yes, sir,
got to know you because you built this whole exterior
so that you could go into a room or be
accepted by a new boot, or going to a new
(26:03):
company and close a new deal. And so the fight
becomes difficult because you never knew who you were, so
you don't know where to start. You don't even know
what you're looking for. So you got to dig through
everything that you built on until you start tapping on
what you feed and then you start feeling all of
that stuff that you hate, because that's why you built
it in the first place.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
To say, yes, do you feel more at peace? Like
you are a mental health advocate. So I'm sure you've
dealt with anxiety, some stress, panic attacks, maybe depression. How
are you feeling just now, because it's still a process, right,
just as far as is there more peace, is there
(26:45):
less stuff going on in the.
Speaker 4 (26:49):
I have skills new, I have skills that I can
apply when I feel certain things. I don't panic, I
don't I don't want the way I have answers now
and the things that I don't have answers to the
patterns that have been produced through the process. I'm confident
(27:10):
that what I've learned so far and the community that
I've built, that I'm going to be okay. In the past,
I didn't have any of those, So anger became number one,
the low hanging fruit, frustration, running away, I had no answers.
But not today today. I love how I process. I'm
not there yet, but I love.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
But you love it.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
It is a process, and we're thankful for you. Probably
just lately, it's so refreshing to see black men, black
men who are giant in the faith, who are honest
and vulnerable, because that's very tough.
Speaker 4 (27:50):
Yeah, it is. It's tough from the outside. It's I
don't even want to answer that question. But it's not
a question, it's a response. It's tough when you don't
have an environment that is conducive for it.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Okay, only tough.
Speaker 4 (28:05):
When everybody around you is hard and you've been socialized
to be that way. That's how it started for me.
I was socialized to be that way. But now I've
been resocialized and the room then is full of confident,
wealthy black strong men that have learned the value in
being a lion and a lamb at the same time.
(28:27):
And now it's easy because the room produces it.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
That's so good, so y'all will probably want to leave.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Y'all on that note, too, is making sure that you
are that you are in rooms that make you feel safe,
people who don't complain when you tell them how you're
really doing, and people who will encourage you to keep fighting.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Who you are is in there.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
As you say in the book, You're already enough, You're
already loved, and I love one of the either it's
a title or one of the subtitles about having the
fire to try. Yeah you, Doctor Trubman basically is telling
you in this book you are worth fighting for, just
(29:17):
like we fight to find I remember missing like my
phone or AirPod. They were in the refrigerator. But man,
it felt so good when I finally found them. It
was worth the fight to find the device that I work.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
From and communicate from.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
So that same energy that we fight to stay in
certain things, in relationships or that to pass that test,
you're worth the same You're worth. You're worth the fight
of finding yourself. Doctor Tubman, any last, well, I wouldn't
(29:51):
say last, because you're your friend up to checking and
you can come here any time you want. Any words
to say to our readers, our readers and listeners about
your new book.
Speaker 4 (30:03):
First of all, thank you for your time. Your audience
is amazing. It's been an honor and a privilege to
be with you. All. Go get the book. It comes
out and November four, it's ready to go. You need
to go get it, all right. I think it's going
to change your life transform. Just understand this that when
you start digging into your past, you may want to quit,
but that's a part of the process.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
Listen, y'all, the book is actually out today. It just
released today. We get to talk to him on.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
His book release day. We're excited.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
I won't hold you cause I know book promo is
a lot. You're going to be doing a lot of
interviews and answering a lot of the same questions, which
I try not to do in this interview. But thank
you for flowing with us. We love you.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
You are welcome here anytime. Thank you, y'all.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
I try to honor people's time. Oh I don't want
to be the person that just goes.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
On and on and on and on and on.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
But this book the fight to find yourself. And then
Joel Tuckman and just his story and what he has
fought through.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
It's so inspiring.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
The fact that in life you will go through the fire.
I don't care how you try to avoid it, how
you try to run, but life will life. And prayerfully,
while life is lifing, there are parts of you that
you are discovering. Maybe you discover you're more resilient than
(31:38):
you thought. Maybe you discover you are incredible, You are talented,
you are a great human being.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
You are who God says you are. And sometimes.
Speaker 3 (31:52):
The voices are louder in our heads, the voices are
contrary to who your creator created you to be. So
I really really hope that you enjoy this episode and
that you share it with people. Joel doctor Tutman is incredible,
(32:15):
just absolutely awesome, And I am so glad that we
got to have this incredible warrior with us. A mental
health advocate, chaplain, an amazing speaker. He's got a bachelor's
in sports studies, a master's with a minor and counseling
from Texas A and M.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
He's got a doctoral.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
Degree in Spirit Field glob or Leadership in the African Diaspora.
But he too was fighting to find out who he
really is without all the accolades. The man given accolades,
but I'm so glad to hear him say that you
become more at peace. You know, there are even certain
(33:01):
arguments in certain places you won't go because you.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
Know who you are.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
So I'm thankful that y'all stay tuned for this again.
The book is called The Fight to find Yourself. You
can get it and an audio book. You can get
it wherever you get your books. But I encourage you
to get this book and maybe we should do like
I don't know if it's a book club, maybe for
a month or so, or maybe for the next month.
(33:28):
I think what I'm gonna do is just talk about
pieces of this book that are just man changing my
life as we speak. So yeah, yeah, all right, y'all.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
Piece Checking In with Michelle Williams is a production of
(34:09):
iHeartRadio and The Black Effect. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen
to your favorite shows.
Welcome to Checking In with Michelle Williams, a production of
iHeartRadio and The Black Effect.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Hey, you do you know who you are?
Speaker 3 (00:17):
If you don't, do you know that you are worth
fighting for your worth searching for who you really are?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
And it's okay.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Once you find out, Man, this is who you really are.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
If that's you, stay tuned for this life changing episode
of Checking In. Okay, everybody, welcome to another amazing episode
of Checking In. I'm telling y'all, week after week the
guests get better and better and better. Today, I am
truly truly excited, thrilled, and humbled. Some of y'all be
(00:55):
saying honored when you should be saying humbled. I am
humbled to have my friend, my brother, doctor Joel Tudman,
the author of the best selling book that's it, The
Fight to find Yourself, Author, teacher, pastor, mentor, coach, many
(01:19):
many things, and we're going to get to all of
that again. His new book, The Fight to find Yourself
is available and we're going to talk about it right now.
He is based in Florida. Got some great things going
from Oklahoma, Dallas to Florida. We're going to talk about
that and where we can find him a little bit.
Towards the end of this interview, doctor Tubman, welcome.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
Hey, thank you so much for allowing me to come
into your space. You are an amazing accomplished author, singer, dancer, preacher, actor, actress,
all those things, right, come on here, So it's no
but it's one. Well, thank you for having me many things.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
I'm jealous of the palm trees and all that stuff
going on in the background. It's so great and gloomy
in New York City.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
Automobiles and honking horns and people walking and cussing.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
That's what you got mad because it stinks some big rats.
Listen why he's so big here before that's the next book.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Listen.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
We were naming all kinds of things that we are also, y'all.
I didn't mention he's also a husband, a son, a father,
a friend, and so we're naming all these things that
we are that the world knows that we are. But
in there do we know who we are to ourselves?
(02:54):
And that's what the fight to find yourself is.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Doctor. I was reading this book.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
I chose to read some of it in the hair salon,
because you know, when we stand in the hair salon
for hours, and I knew this was going to be
a page turner. So I'm sitting in the in the
chair saying, oh my god, this is so good. Oh
this is good, and people are looking at me because
I don't have food in my hand.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
I don't have a drink in my hand.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
The book is so good, it is amazing. It had
me in a choke hold in the introduction. It's so surgical.
And I'm going to say this, and.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
We're going to interview, but it may be it may be.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Almost nervous to read the rest, really, because it checked
me in the introduction. Wow, it was like doing surgery
on me in the introduction.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
No anesthesia.
Speaker 4 (03:52):
Well you know that's painful.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
But I think some of the things that we need
can't always come with sugar on the side.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
The truth. I'm so glad you said that. But we're
in such a society it loves the sugar, and you
have to figure out how do you infuse a little
sweetness with the salt in today's society.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Look literally, in one of your chapters of the book,
break Down or Breakthrough, one of the sub things was
learning to receive correction.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
But we're going to get there. I want to know
this book how and why? How did it come about?
Speaker 3 (04:29):
Why did you decide now, let me write this book,
even though you probably wrote it a couple of years ago,
because it takes a couple of years before it to
get to our hands. But at the time, why the
fight to find yourself?
Speaker 4 (04:40):
Because it took so long to do it? And because
it took so long to do it, I had grown
past the phase of trying to prove myself to people.
I spent the majority of my life trying to fit
into circles that add no room for me. And as
gifted as I was, I still been feel that I
(05:03):
had the gift that be accepted into the rooms that
I thought I should be in. I was in certain rooms,
but those weren't the rooms I wanted to be in.
Those weren't the people I wanted to be around. I
have my eyes fixed, like, if I get there, I
know that these doors are going to kick over for me,
(05:24):
life is going to change. So I turned my life
to follow a pattern of what I thought would be
my next and it never was. And so I've lived
a series of that, trying to become, trying to become,
trying to do trying to do and none of it
(05:45):
got me anywhere. So over the course of time and
getting the right mentorship, yeah, and someone stripping your lens
and cutting through all of the facades, all of the
decorated mask that you put on. He cut through it,
and it disrupted all of my thinking. It disrupted every
(06:10):
pattern that I had built, and so there was a
lot of internal healing that took place, but there was
still a lot of bleeding that was going on. And
in the process of that, I decided, let me document
what I'm going through because this doesn't feel good, but
I've understood over time there's all gold inside of every
(06:34):
situation that you're going through. So for me going through
the right mentorship, uncovering and understanding that I'm okay the
way I am and that I may never enter those circles,
and that's absolutely okay. Once I realized that and I
got stripped cut and then two critical deaths, my son's
(06:55):
debt and my father's death. After those two deaths, everything unfolded.
Everything that he was teaching me started making sense to me,
and trying to do all of this stuff to fit
in these rooms where nobody opened the door for me.
Don't all the matter. I realized I'm a door, I'm
(07:18):
a prize, I am worth the time. What he's given
me is a blueprint, blueplint, blueprint within itself. But it
took time to strip through everything that I have built
that I thought was good, that was absolutely killing me.
(07:40):
And then I realized, I think it's trying to release
all the stuff that I love.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
And that there in itself. Y'all think, I think, y'all
can hear? Is a process, is a journey. Some of
us don't realize when they I've heard the saying what
do you bring to the table. It takes a while
for people say I am the table.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
It takes a lot time for you to realize that
you are at the table because you know you got
the goods. Yeah, you can have every piece that everybody's
looking for, but that doesn't mean that you recognize what
you bring. And a lot of times that doesn't happen
(08:23):
until you realize who you are. Because, again I talk
about in the book, we become known for what we
do before we know who we are. Depending on how
popular you get, especially in your shoes, I mean, you
blew up if you didn't have good people in your life,
taught you the value of who you guys were, your family,
(08:43):
what you stood for, what you stand for. To unravel
the gifts and then unravel you, then that's a possibility
that the world could have picked you up, spit you
out of crumpled you in the pieces.
Speaker 3 (08:57):
And some of that is the world's purpose is to
try to do.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
All the things.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
I want to go back to something that you were
saying about trying to fit in and as I was thinking,
it seems like some of the most gifted people fit
in don't fit in anywhere. Two some of the rooms
that you want to fit in, you're actually better than them.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
Three.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Some of the rooms don't want you in the room.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
Because if you get in the room, the attention turns
from them to you.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
And you just walked in.
Speaker 4 (09:42):
You didn't say nothing is something. You just right down
the list so profoundly because I just exactly the process
once I got into some of those rooms, and look,
it just happened.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
You shouldn't some of these rooms book.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
He talked about it in the book. He's not saying anything,
y'all that's not in the book. The Fight to find Yourself.
Speaker 4 (10:06):
Just walked in and I'm like I was trying to
get here. You mean to tell me I was breaking
my neck to get here and this is nothing, This
is absolutely nothing. You're you know, I don't even want
to say that. I was gonna say you're terrible, but
that's not a great thing to say. But I'm breaking
my neck to try to meet a certain person and
(10:28):
get in a certain person's face. And when I get
to that person, I'm like what.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
I'm saying, I'd rather be at Texas Roadhouse getting them
hot rolls with the butter. And y'all were saying this
for a reason, because you are a force within yourself,
like owning and embracing what God has given you. We
want to teach y'all there are certain places that you're
fighting to be that the reason why sometimes you're not
there is for your protection and your preservation.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
Oh that's so powerful and it's so beautiful because if
you don't know, you spend so much time keeping the
real youth from coming into a world that you were
supposed to dominate, not just be a part of.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Damn a very good come on dominy.
Speaker 4 (11:11):
And you don't know what you can dominate if you're
being dominated by constant thoughts of trying to pleagurize your life.
I talk about identity foreclosure in the book where you
have tried to be the next Michelle, You tried to
be the next Beyonce, You tried to be the next Kelly,
for the.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Next doctor Joel. We want to holler like you, we
want to teach like you.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
Whatever you want to call But at the end of
the day, here's it's okay to set your eyes on
them and to say I want to be like them.
But at the end of the day, if you don't
find out who you are, you will foreclosed on someone
who has a lane that has carved out for themselves.
If you're going to build destiny and other people that
(11:57):
want to be exactly like you, and you've proposed on that.
So you've got to find the fire to dig through
everything traumaticness happened to you. That's the dirtiest part of
finding yourself is digging through the trauma, and some of
the trauma, if you're not careful, you'll forget that you
(12:17):
actually went through certain things.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
Sorry about the loss of your father and your son,
and we can still say sorry today even though it
happened a couple of years ago. Because the pain it's
still there. And you were saying you didn't know how
much you forgot that you had a moment with your dad.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
God. I had so much animosity with my father that
when I wrote the book and I was adding a
piece into the book, I said, wait a minute, that
hand that was on my back was my dad's and
it snapped. I broken at and started crying that so
(13:00):
much innermosky against him, about what I thought he should
have done and all of that stuff. And while I'm
writing the book and I'm talking about the trauma from
my son, the one hand that touched my back, go ahead,
(13:21):
do what you need to do. I'll never forget it.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
You need to do Yeah, And I screamed so.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
Loud outside and I went back inside together myself like
U lichized my son, you.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Were able to do it from my dad's books.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
And it's amazing because the voice that we sometimes need
is the voice of our father. And my heart is
going out to people who don't have that, who are
fighting to get that, especially when you have a father
that's still alive. I'll say there were things that I
(13:58):
held against my father, really because sometimes as a little girl,
we have ideas of how we want Daddy to be
and what we think he should be, but then not
understand that there are dynamics between him and Mommy that
we don't quite understand. And I didn't get it. I
(14:19):
couldn't forgive until I started going to therapy. Not excusing
a lot of things that happened, but understanding, Oh, they
was going through their own stuff. It was hard for
him to be who I needed him to be because
he couldn't be who he needed to be as a
husband and as a son. And it's I think everything
is so layered because our parents have their own stuff
(14:42):
from their parents.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
Yes, yes, And you know what, I'm glad that you
broke it down like that because I tried to kind
of walk through that. You do that as you start
correcting things and you start going through what you've been
through and you start realizing just what you said. This
is connected to that, This is connected to this, This
(15:05):
is connected to this. The reason why I can't show
up here because I got to go there, And if
I can't show up there, it's because I had to
be here. And at the end of the day, everybody's
mad because I'm not there at all places at the
same time, and it takes years for a teenager to
grow up and then get exactly what you said, understand understanding.
(15:28):
But Michelle, I need to interrupt your business. It takes
years to get the understanding, but there's still years of
damage because nobody understands until And so my hope is
that you can get this book on the front side
and understand while you don't understand, because there's still your
(15:54):
father still wounded in the process, Michelle, still wounded in
the process, your mother is still wounded in the process us.
But if we could some kind of way course correct
and make correction cultural, make correction normal, then nobody's going
to be so wounded when we don't understand. It becomes
a part of a process of learning and we absolutely
(16:17):
different way. I hope that makes.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
Sense, absolutely, And also getting trying to lay aside the thought,
well it's too late. I'm in my thirties now, it's
too late to correct it, or children not accepting that
your parents are doing the work to correct damage that
(16:39):
they've done.
Speaker 4 (16:40):
You know, I was in Dallas and I was angry
with my father, and Bishop Jake's says to me, he says,
you know, your dad was your age when you were young.
Think about how you feel right now. Dang, I ain't
(17:01):
think about it like that, he said, So give your
dad some breaks. There's times for even worse back when
your dad was your age. Now. Yeah, when you go
talk to your father, go talk to him with sylympathy
as a man understanding with me. You know it's and
(17:21):
that really started shrinking the issues becuse I was like, man,
I've got some of the same problems.
Speaker 3 (17:29):
Some of the same problems or things that you'll find
upset about your mom, about your dad.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
And then I look in the mirror like you are
Anita Williams too.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
To niet Michelle, you are Dennis Williams. My dad passed
in twenty twenty and I literally found myself looking at
pictures from of him the other day because I'm in
the phase where I'm missing him. But I know why
I'm missing him. His birthday is coming up, his passing
is coming up, and so I'm choosing to smile.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
But yet but yet more.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
But I want to tell you, doctor Joel Tuttman, that
so many people will identify with your story. But I'm
glad you wrote this book because people are going to
be able to identify with the healing as well. This book, y'all,
this book is a guide. There are amazing prompts at
(18:26):
the end of a book. And in one chapter I
was like, I got to write this thing down where
you were like, what is one of the most difficult
things you're dealing with.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
In your fight? And you gave three three prompts of
what it could be.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
And I was like, let me write, let me write
this down. But healing can begin even y'all that are
listening when you choose to even write something down that
you're fighting with, not only write it, but begin to
say it. Story that you even told about your father
in the fight to find yourself, that's a movie when
(19:07):
you were in the hospital and you were praying the
Sentaer's prayer. Yeah, yeah, So I think sometimes my question
do you think sometimes the fight within ourselves as far
as identity is concerned. Do you think do you find
that with the people you've mentored and coached and pastored
(19:27):
through the years, the ones of us who have dealt
with identity in who we are, does it always come
from broken homes or those who are fatherless.
Speaker 4 (19:39):
I'm not gonna say that it always comes from.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
Issues okay, yes, sir, Well, I don't think that's the
thank you for saying that.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
By the way, issues that's great.
Speaker 4 (19:50):
And some issues. Sometimes it's just a lack of information,
I will say, lack lack of information, lack of love,
a lack of opportunity. I think with my father it
was a lack now that I understood, it was a
lack of time, a lack of opportunity because he and
(20:12):
my mother got a divorce. He didn't divorce us, He
divorced my mother and when he left Mount Pleasant he
moved to Texas, Canada, Texas, which was an hour and
a half away. As a kid, your mine is he's
just an hour and a half away. Oh man. He
has a job, he has a church, he has to
(20:33):
go to sleep, he has to still be his spouse,
he has to still have responsibilities in his career. There's
only so many hours of day. And he did get
the opportunity to see us. So there was a lack
of time, a lack of so I think that it's
more so a lack of something, not necessarily brokenness. Now
(20:58):
can a lack of something create eight brokenis absolutely okay,
but not necessarily okay. He doesn't you don't have to
necessarily be broken to not know who you are. You
just don't have the opportunity, nor do you have the
guide the people to help inform you. This is why.
(21:20):
And I know I take a long time to answer
the questions.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
I'm sorry, No, it's great, it's great.
Speaker 4 (21:25):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
I guess long. But when you want to tarry a
little longer, you can.
Speaker 4 (21:30):
I don't want to tarry. That's why I opened the
chapter of the book this way. Jesus is coming into
the Jordan River to be baptized. John the Baptist points
and none said, that's the one, all right. It comes
to take a breast sense of the world. He baptize
(21:50):
is Jesus a John's voices, and we hears first Jesus
goes down in the water, he comes up out of
the water, and then his father's voice speaks, behold, this
is my beloved son. And wells the whole primises of
the If you don't have a natural father, if you
don't have a guard, you have a God that loves
(22:13):
you where you are, and you have to embrace that.
You are the beloved of God. And it has taken
me all those years, even though I've preached in his name,
I've sang in his name, I have laid on hands
with his name, I have sung prophetic songs in his name.
All of that stuff that I've been able to do
(22:34):
as the annoying comes upon you. But the one thing
I didn't open myself up to with the annoying was
that he loved me trouble, without preaching, without playing football,
without being a husband, without being a father, without having together,
he loves be. And once I came to the conclusion,
(22:56):
and it's taken my into my life to realize that
he he loves me to me, who is the blackest
black sheep of my family, because I made so many
mistakes that I've spent all those years pursued trying to
get in those circles so that everybody would see me
a different way. I realized he loved that meat. The
(23:20):
broken disgusted me. And that's where the door begins. When
you can realize that he loves you at your lowest,
because Jordan was at the lowest and amount the Mount
Transfiguration was the highest. He says it again, this is
my beloved son. Yes, yes, So once you realize that
(23:42):
he loves you, at your lowest, he loves you at
your highest everything in between, he's with you. I mean,
he's got and you don't have to be afraid to be.
Speaker 3 (23:57):
Again. It's in your book about excepting, accepting, accepting what
you're saying, and accepting who you are with.
Speaker 2 (24:08):
All the flaws. We like ourselves when we're done.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
Up, hair is done, braids groomed. You know, women, we
like our our nails are done. But can you like yourself? Ladies,
when you when you don't win about two to three
weeks and you don't have that feel, can you accept
I'm still dope even when I need a fill.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Okay without it?
Speaker 3 (24:35):
Come on, I'm still dope without extensions. Please people, you
know you you are worth fighting for. I was I
was thinking of something this morning and then I wrote down.
I said, why is it a fight though to find ourselves?
You do answer it in a book, but I'm like,
it's easier to find AirPods. You have a freaking app
(24:58):
on your phone to help you find find items. But
then I was like, well, we do have the Bible
to help us find ourselves. We have God, the one
who created us, to help us find ourselves. But the
I was just like the fight. Why is it a
fight when it's easier to find other things, it's easier
(25:19):
to find bad relationships.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
Is that something that is such a great question, and
it's such a true reality. Most of us don't like ourselves.
We like what we've created, and because other people like
what we created, we created it for other people to like.
We didn't even create it for ourselves. We created it
(25:42):
so that other people would invite us into those circles.
And so over the process of time, because right back
to what I told you, you end up foreclosing on you. Yes, sir,
got to know you because you built this whole exterior
so that you could go into a room or be
accepted by a new boot, or going to a new
(26:03):
company and close a new deal. And so the fight
becomes difficult because you never knew who you were, so
you don't know where to start. You don't even know
what you're looking for. So you got to dig through
everything that you built on until you start tapping on
what you feed and then you start feeling all of
that stuff that you hate, because that's why you built
it in the first place.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
To say, yes, do you feel more at peace? Like
you are a mental health advocate. So I'm sure you've
dealt with anxiety, some stress, panic attacks, maybe depression. How
are you feeling just now, because it's still a process, right,
just as far as is there more peace, is there
(26:45):
less stuff going on in the.
Speaker 4 (26:49):
I have skills new, I have skills that I can
apply when I feel certain things. I don't panic, I
don't I don't want the way I have answers now
and the things that I don't have answers to the
patterns that have been produced through the process. I'm confident
(27:10):
that what I've learned so far and the community that
I've built, that I'm going to be okay. In the past,
I didn't have any of those, So anger became number one,
the low hanging fruit, frustration, running away, I had no answers.
But not today today. I love how I process. I'm
not there yet, but I love.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
But you love it.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
It is a process, and we're thankful for you. Probably
just lately, it's so refreshing to see black men, black
men who are giant in the faith, who are honest
and vulnerable, because that's very tough.
Speaker 4 (27:50):
Yeah, it is. It's tough from the outside. It's I
don't even want to answer that question. But it's not
a question, it's a response. It's tough when you don't
have an environment that is conducive for it.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Okay, only tough.
Speaker 4 (28:05):
When everybody around you is hard and you've been socialized
to be that way. That's how it started for me.
I was socialized to be that way. But now I've
been resocialized and the room then is full of confident,
wealthy black strong men that have learned the value in
being a lion and a lamb at the same time.
(28:27):
And now it's easy because the room produces it.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
That's so good, so y'all will probably want to leave.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Y'all on that note, too, is making sure that you
are that you are in rooms that make you feel safe,
people who don't complain when you tell them how you're
really doing, and people who will encourage you to keep fighting.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Who you are is in there.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
As you say in the book, You're already enough, You're
already loved, and I love one of the either it's
a title or one of the subtitles about having the
fire to try. Yeah you, Doctor Trubman basically is telling
you in this book you are worth fighting for, just
(29:17):
like we fight to find I remember missing like my
phone or AirPod. They were in the refrigerator. But man,
it felt so good when I finally found them. It
was worth the fight to find the device that I work.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
From and communicate from.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
So that same energy that we fight to stay in
certain things, in relationships or that to pass that test,
you're worth the same You're worth. You're worth the fight
of finding yourself. Doctor Tubman, any last, well, I wouldn't
(29:51):
say last, because you're your friend up to checking and
you can come here any time you want. Any words
to say to our readers, our readers and listeners about
your new book.
Speaker 4 (30:03):
First of all, thank you for your time. Your audience
is amazing. It's been an honor and a privilege to
be with you. All. Go get the book. It comes
out and November four, it's ready to go. You need
to go get it, all right. I think it's going
to change your life transform. Just understand this that when
you start digging into your past, you may want to quit,
but that's a part of the process.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
Listen, y'all, the book is actually out today. It just
released today. We get to talk to him on.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
His book release day. We're excited.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
I won't hold you cause I know book promo is
a lot. You're going to be doing a lot of
interviews and answering a lot of the same questions, which
I try not to do in this interview. But thank
you for flowing with us. We love you.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
You are welcome here anytime. Thank you, y'all.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
I try to honor people's time. Oh I don't want
to be the person that just goes.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
On and on and on and on and on.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
But this book the fight to find yourself. And then
Joel Tuckman and just his story and what he has
fought through.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
It's so inspiring.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
The fact that in life you will go through the fire.
I don't care how you try to avoid it, how
you try to run, but life will life. And prayerfully,
while life is lifing, there are parts of you that
you are discovering. Maybe you discover you're more resilient than
(31:38):
you thought. Maybe you discover you are incredible, You are talented,
you are a great human being.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
You are who God says you are. And sometimes.
Speaker 3 (31:52):
The voices are louder in our heads, the voices are
contrary to who your creator created you to be. So
I really really hope that you enjoy this episode and
that you share it with people. Joel doctor Tutman is incredible,
(32:15):
just absolutely awesome, And I am so glad that we
got to have this incredible warrior with us. A mental
health advocate, chaplain, an amazing speaker. He's got a bachelor's
in sports studies, a master's with a minor and counseling
from Texas A and M.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
He's got a doctoral.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
Degree in Spirit Field glob or Leadership in the African Diaspora.
But he too was fighting to find out who he
really is without all the accolades. The man given accolades,
but I'm so glad to hear him say that you
become more at peace. You know, there are even certain
(33:01):
arguments in certain places you won't go because you.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
Know who you are.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
So I'm thankful that y'all stay tuned for this again.
The book is called The Fight to find Yourself. You
can get it and an audio book. You can get
it wherever you get your books. But I encourage you
to get this book and maybe we should do like
I don't know if it's a book club, maybe for
a month or so, or maybe for the next month.
(33:28):
I think what I'm gonna do is just talk about
pieces of this book that are just man changing my
life as we speak. So yeah, yeah, all right, y'all.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
Piece Checking In with Michelle Williams is a production of
(34:09):
iHeartRadio and The Black Effect. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen
to your favorite shows.
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