November 8, 2022 • 35 mins
Michelle and Dr. Rachel are getting into the pleasure principles! Dr. Rachel expands on how trauma affects our capability to enjoy pleasure. She also shares ways to release trauma from the body, explores the different meanings of pleasure and learning how to be a receiver.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Checking In with Michelle Williams, a production of
My Heart Radio and The Black Effect. This week, it's
kind of spicy. Well for me, it's spicy to be
(00:23):
having this conversation with y'all. Yes, for me, this would
be on the menu with the three jalapeno peppers that
indicate its spice level. Now, y'all. Dr Rachel was so
good that we had to have her comeback for a
second time. She's a license holistic psychologist. She's twenty years
in the game. She's a writer of the brand new
(00:45):
book The Pleasure Is All Yours. She leads retreats. She's
an expert in pleasure and body fulness. I'm so excited
to welcome back Dr Rachel Atlan. So y'all tuned in.
I don't know what you need. Get you some cold
tea hot tea lemonade, coffee, your drink of choice. Dr
(01:09):
Rachel Alan, you guys is back today, and y'all we
were talking about before we even press record. It was
getting so good. We just rant, we gotta press record.
This is so good. We were talking about trauma and
pleasure and how if you don't deal and heal from trauma,
how can you experience pleasure and how sometimes trauma. Okay,
(01:36):
so what we were talking about was in the bedroom,
straight to it. Let's get straight to it. What might
be abusive to someone else might feel good to someone else.
So what was your response, Well, just talking about like
power play, you know, whether it be S and M
for some people being a dominating person in the bedroom
(01:56):
or some person some people like to be kind of
a submissive person in the better room. And part of
what's important is before you do that to have a
conversation of sort of like which role you want to be,
what your limitations are, your boundaries, your yes, your no.
So it could actually be a really good conversation for
when people are into that, but you have to have
that conversation because for some people they might think that
(02:17):
having their hair pulled and kind of their head yanked
in that way could be erotically charging, but then when
they get into it, it could trigger them into something
that is a trauma response that that they didn't even
know that they had. And so it's important of course
to have a partner that you feel emotionally safe with
that you can say, you know, stop I'm getting triggered,
or I need to back off. And some people do
(02:38):
know their triggers may because of past experiences. But you know,
if you're with a partner that you feel emotionally safe
with and and comfortable with, it can be a really
wonderful exploratory time to find out, like what is your
edge and kind of getting to that exciting edge, but
then what is not right for you and what your
limits are? Yeah, don't be d M and me. I
don't want to know you a bit room stuff. Don't
be d M and me talking about some girl. My
(03:01):
head was banged up against the headboard and honey, well
it's a free world. Go go, go ahead of a
matter of fact, we want to know. Go ahead, go
ahead and let me and Dr Rachel Allen know your
thoughts about this. We're grown, I'm in my authorities at
(03:22):
this point, so I don't have time to be shy
about talking about certain conversations. We're not offending nobody. We
are literally getting educated and having some fun. And no shame,
no shaming, what when? When? What people want to bring up? Right,
We're all about like, no more shame around all this,
no more confusion. First of all, no shame, no confusion,
and no judgment because while something might not work for you,
(03:45):
it's cool to be educated on what other people like
to like, that's what you like in your bedroom, oh ouse.
I think it's great when people know what they like, right,
That means that they even invested in themselves. They kind
of they had some mind body connection, They paid attention
they versus being shut down or just doing kind of
the same you know, the same thing maybe every time,
(04:07):
and not even exploring and being more adventurous with what
they like. M M doctor right, soul is Dr Rua.
You were talking about trauma responses, But what is trauma?
First of all, what is trauma? Well, we've always long
thought is that trauma is the actual incident, like the
car accident or somebody you know, maybe physically violating us.
(04:30):
But while that is extremely stressful, trauma is actually the
way that kind of we process and handle that, and
that then the kind of leftover residue that can exist
within us when we haven't been able to kind of
cope and heal from it. And so that's where a
lot of the science and research is going right now
in psychology and in mental health is how certain things
(04:52):
we can't talk our way through because at the time
of the event that was traumatizing, certain areas of the
brain were sponsible for language can sort of dial down
and shut down a bit, whereas other aspects of our
brain and our response cycle dial up to try to
protect us. So um a lot of work that's trying
to cope with trauma that gets stuck in the body
(05:13):
is actually going more to the body, straight to the
source of that that residue, that imprint in our body
and really working with releasing it that way, leading people
to know then new things that they can do to
kind of find agency in their body again reconnect with
their body. A lot of people disconnect from their body
and dissociate when their husband trauma. And the problem is
when you know, maybe something similar comes up again later
(05:34):
that is similar to their original traumatizing incident. People have
these reactions, you know, real reactivity, really strong reactions and
nervous system reactivity. They both they fight, they yell, and
they don't know why they suddenly had that immediate response,
and that's a sign that there's some leftover trauma in
their nervous system, reactivity in their connective tissue. So and
(05:56):
how a person reacts is that then what you call
trauma response. Yes, how we respond or react to a
situation is really telling as far as whether there's still
some older traumas in our system. If we find we
overreact to something so it's really disproportionate to what just happened,
that's a good indication that there's something unresolved kind of
(06:17):
in our system wanting to protect us because this steel
is familiar to that original trauma. But the good news
is that we all have ways within our own system.
It doesn't even require a prescription. We have ways within
our own system to move that through, to recognize it
as it comes up, have ways to kind of soothe
ourselves and regulate again, and that's working at the pleasure again.
Then how does a person recognize that they're having a
(06:40):
trauma response, Well, you have to really know your body.
So I help people in sessions with noticing breath, noticing
areas of tension like my jaw for example, of my
jaws getting stiff, Like you can even call me out
if you notice I'm starting to clench something within me,
maybe starting to kind of get constricted, maybe I'm nervous
or want and want to give a better answer. Can
be little things like that. But starting to notice also,
(07:01):
you know, little ticks and habits, and you know maybe
how your stomach and your digestion feels, or your body
temperature or your intuition what it's telling you. But yeah,
areas of constriction, areas how you you're breathing is certain
people might bring it out in us. We might find
that we get kind of KG with certain people. There
might be something about them, either from the past or
they remind us. Even people's tone of voice, somebody else's
(07:23):
tone of voice configure us to have a from a
past trauma. I've even sent oh yeah now for me
in a pleasurable way. I love the smell of Calvin
Klein etern because one of my very my first real boyfriend,
used to wear Calvin Clein Eternity a lot, and I
(07:44):
loved it so much that he sprayed it on a
bear that he got me for Valentine's right. That's something
as far as a scent, But there could be a
certain scent that just trigger somebody and you don't have
a pleasurable exactly. Yeah. I have a whole chapter in
my book on the senses, like one by one, I
(08:04):
go through each of the senses and talking about really understanding, Like,
for example, talking about scent, it's most connected to memory.
So every time you know, you come across that senter,
you will probably your your memory will go to that
boyfriend you had, or you know, some food. It brings
you back to something you know, maybe our grandma made
for us as a kid. And so so I go
(08:25):
through the book each of the senses just how we
can have them be our ally, because the more we
are connected to our senses, sort of what might be
aggravating with each of our senses and what we can do,
like in our toolbox of different things we can do
to help do their senses, whether it be putting on
calming music or essential oil or kind of smelling the
aroma of your favorite tea. But we have that agency
(08:47):
within us two soothe what could be older trauma coming
back up again through each of our senses. And the
book that Dr Rachel is talking about is called The
Pleasure Is All Yours. Reclaim your bodies, bliss, and reignite
your passion for life. But y'all, before I could even
start talking about pleasure and bliss, I wanted to talk
(09:08):
about what trauma does when it's stored in the body.
And you do not release it, How then can you
even appreciate pleasure? How can you feel pleasure or even
recognize pleasure? So what happens when you don't deal with trauma?
Dr Rachel, Well, then it leads people really find more
and more extreme ways to disconnect from self. That's where
(09:29):
we see a lot of addiction. I mean, we now
understand addiction as being a way to really kind of
escape and numb, and there can be addictions of all kinds.
I mean, workaholism is probably the most accepted in our culture, right,
but that is also a way to sort of escape
and numb from our vulnerability, from from the discomfort within. Also,
we can take it out with aggression towards others, whether
it be even judgmental towards others or aggression towards ourselves.
(09:51):
You know, a lot of self criticism and self hate
and you know, low self worth can be ways in
which when we aren't able to really have compassion and
understand and some of the ways that the leftover trauma
is like living with us and it comes out a
lot of relationships too, and we store all of that
in our bodies, which, like you said, leads to the
low self esteem, low self worth, value of our how
(10:13):
we view ourselves. Yeah, when we aren't able to really
be compassionate with some of the discomfort we have and
understand its source. And a lot of times some of
the source of our pain and trauma isn't just from incidents.
It can be collective, it can be due to systemic trauma,
can be due to intergenerational trauma from families passed on
from our ancestors. And so I think that that's another thing.
(10:33):
People always maybe blame themselves for some of their the
ways they responded to things in the world, when really
we have to look at how there's means. Systemically, a
lot of our culture is very sick. We have so
many six systems, and we have racism and sexism and
homophobia and able is um that causes trauma as well.
You know, that's really significant. You should say that because
some of us we we relate trauma to abuse, sexual abuse,
(10:58):
verbal abuse, some physical abuse that was probably going on
in the home, or trauma that's experience. Should you get
hit in the head, that's force trauma. But you just
name some other things that is traumatic racism, homophobio and
which includes bullying of all sorts. And so we were
(11:18):
talking about before we started press recording, because we were
talking about pleasure and trauma and how when that trauma
is stored in the body, how do you receive pleasure? Right?
I mean it starts with actually reconnecting to your body,
the language of your body, so the senses, as we've
been saying, also ref also can muscle constriction and blood flow,
our energy, subtle body energy, and our chakras and things
(11:42):
like intuition, just knowing what we need for rest versus
activity from all those different signals from the systems in
our body. And we tend to live in this overthinking
culture right where all we think that the mind is
the seat of all reason and can solve all our problems.
And so I think it starts with just befriending the body,
listening to the body. Body full this. Yeah, yeah, body
fulness is my thing. Yeah yeah, mindfulness is important, but
(12:05):
bodyfulness really gets us beyond mindfulness because we need to
get out of our heads. We need to go beyond
just sort of observing to also releasing physically through like movement,
to signing through massages, through repetitive motion sports, whether they'll
be walking, biking, swimming that can be really meditative. Sometimes
it's like sighing. Sometimes it's even raging. We associate that
is something that means that you're out of control, but
(12:26):
sometimes that is how we get it, like out of
this sort of the visceral kind of upper chest, you
kind of let out this, you know, a yelp or
scream and and your rage and that releases it. Now
we don't want to read on someone else, of course,
it's it's about doing it within your own room. And
but there's all these ways in which actually we've been
told that as humans we're supposed to be really buttoned
up and keep it all in. And what we now
(12:46):
know through science is that actually it's through a lot
of times releasing that lets that trauma move through. It's
just a matter of yeah, you need to Maybe you
don't do it in the grocery store, but um privacy
of your own home or people that you feel safe with.
But autifulness comes from listening to your body, finding ways
to kind of self soothe and regulate in your body
with movement or containment practices that make you feel safe
(13:09):
and secure. And then then that steps us into a
place of like feeling self confident in our mind body connection,
knowing what we need to do to kind of regulate
feel good again. And let's just feel a little bit
more comfortable to be vulnerable, right, being vulnerable. We can't
do that unless we're coming from a place of feeling
kind of some safety and security within. And then and
then also just knowing that we're worth it, giving ourselves
(13:31):
permission that we deserve to feel good. And I know
you talked in the last our last podcast about just
how like some religious messages from upbringing with say like
it's maybe naughty to feel good, to feel pleasure, sort
of a naughty thing. So I do a lot around
just helping people reclaim the pleasure is healing in the
healing way. You know what, I am a word girl,
(13:51):
and I'm looking at the definition of the word pleasure.
It is a feeling of happy, satisfaction and enjoyment. Enjoyment
and entertainment contrasted with things done out of necessity, like
she had not traveled for pleasure for a long time,
and even our activity from which one derives enjoyment. The
verb though pleasure is what you were talking about. I
(14:14):
think the church or faith based they focus so much
on the verb, which is to give sexual enjoyment or
satisfaction to you know, tell me what will pleasure you.
You know, that's sexually, but the noun itself, person, place,
or thing, pleasure being a thing in this moment, it's
not about sex, right, And the words that were also
(14:38):
connected in that definition, they said enjoyment and they said happiness.
And so part of why I like to write about
pleasure is because it's sort of like the one that's
been demonized, like when nobody disputes our right, you know,
have to have happiness and have moments of joy. But
what we know scientifically is that it is moments of pleasure.
Certain types can be unhealthy for us, of course, but
ultimately there's certain types of pleasure. Those moments add up
(15:01):
to lead to longer lasting states of joy and happiness.
So we kind of can't really get to join happiness
unless we actually let ourselves receive moments of pleasure. That's
the noun. Let's talk about the verb. And you can't
get two moments of happy and satisfaction and enjoyment in
the sexual way of pleasure based off trauma or the
(15:21):
low confidence that you have or you know, women we
talked about how we can multitask you over here thinking
about did I leave the stove on? You know, our
our minds are in so many places that you don't
sit and enjoy pleasure in that moment. Y'all are like,
wait a minute, Michelle, Now wait, this is probably the
(15:43):
first episode in which we're really going to go deep sexually, right,
But I know a lot of listeners y'all. Y'all are
enjoying pleasure in that way in the verb tense, So
the pleasure is all yours and that the right fel
the floor is yours to go in whatever directs you
(16:07):
do you want to go in. Yeah, well, really, this
is a book written for anybody who feels they aren't
deserving of feeling good, and especially if they've been conditioned.
There can be some toxic conditioning out there that says
that it's bad to receive that. You know, you're you're selfish.
And really, what I try to explain at its core
is that not only is it healing within ourselves to
(16:29):
let ourselves receive moments of healthy pleasure, but when we're
engaging in that, we are better for others. And when
people are collectively engaging in like say a music concert
or some group yoga class. Outside those moments of kind
of pleasured, embodied experiences with others also really lead to
more altruism and connection. People feel more compassionate towards others.
(16:50):
So I really see pleasure at the root of this.
It's a life force energy that opens us up to
our best selves and to really uniting and seeing the
connect action, you know, interconnection with others. So it can
be about sex, but pleasure can be about also just
enjoying being in our body, whether we're dancing or singing.
I always joked that like karaoke, I love to do it.
(17:10):
I'm not a good singer, um, and I never want
to do a karaoke battle with you, my friend, but
well because I feel I have fun and it's not
about being self conscious. So yeah, but women in particular
have had a hard time letting themselves really kind of
own their bodies, enjoy their bodies, know their bodies, and
know what their pleasures are in their body and then
ask for kind of what they want because women have
(17:33):
been really conditioned to be the givers, not their receivers.
Well that's the thing, you know, as far as gender roles.
At one point women you serve your husband, you cook,
and you clean, and and then it's almost like you
just lay there and let him get all the pleasure.
And like you said, asked for what you want. But
how many people don't even feel like they can and
(17:53):
that they should without rocking the boat, right, I mean,
it has to come from a place of self worth
and deserving. And of course what's wonderful in the relationship
is that it can be such a mutual thing when
each person is interested in how to pleasure the other.
I mean that really helps build intimacy and connection because
ultimately sex is really about bonding. It's about bonding and
really bringing out kind of that oxytocin, the bonding hormone. Okay,
(18:16):
and just as touch of any kind, I mean even
a hug that's over twenty seconds is actually able to
release oxytocin, so pleasure from you know, intimacy and physical
intimacy doesn't have to just be about penetrative sex. It
can really be about the snuggling and massage and you know,
just different ways of caressing that release that same sort
of pleasurable feeling, bonding feeling, feeling of connection, which is
(18:38):
so important. Well, that's the thing. Glad you say that,
because again you don't. I didn't hear any of this
growing up. The only time sex was talked about was
in a way of don't have sex you get too attached,
m literally and you get to attach or in church.
Like I said, I've never heard the word pleasure, and
(18:59):
the only time I hear the word pleasure it was
related to sex. But I love how in your book
you talk about no, there's like four types different kinds
of pleasure, sensual play, lively, flow, and the erotic sexual
and how you can experience each kind through the practice
of your favorite topic, body fullness. Yeah. Yeah, And there
(19:21):
can be a pleasure in giving to others, But at
my point in the book is that a lot of
times there can be people who do it too much.
You know, they aren't ever to also get back to
themselves or just like own their wants and needs and desires.
So as long as it's in balance, giving to others
can bring ah. Yeah. So speaking of giving to others,
people might feel like I just get pleasure in doing
(19:42):
for other people. But what is the difference between you
feel like they're doing it out of performance or people
pleasing And is that a trauma response. That can be
absolutely that can be a trauma response. That's a good point,
and that is I think really good to recognize, and
it's a way to sort of avoid one's own desires
and needs, needs, and the legitimacy of their own desires
and needs. It's again everything kind of imbalanced, and because giving,
(20:06):
of course, being kind and sportive of others is fabulous
and we need that in the world. We need that
empathy absolutely, but if we don't generate that back towards ourselves,
and a lot of women have a hard time doing
that when it comes to their bodies and sex, then
they're they're really disconnecting and cutting off from like a
really thriving life force energy that is regenerative and it
actually helps with resilience. We hear about people being burnt
(20:28):
out a lot nowadays with hustle culture, but actually like
getting that massage from a professional or your partner, or
or even just having your partner go down on you
and and just exploring how that feels good and receiving
in that way. That is a regenerative life firce energy
that like really opens us up to know it a minute.
It's a regenerative life force energy. Rachel, you know us
(20:49):
a kind of some big words. She makes it sound
so sophisticated, and it's a really like, honey, I meet
this done because it is its off life force energy
that I need right right. Well, I know this is
more of a heteroonormative model, but if you look at
say a man coming into a woman like true, look
(21:12):
as he comes, he is giving a life first energy
into the woman's body. She is meant to be a receiver.
That's why why often men are tired after sex and
women have energy often after sex. Oh wow, I'm going
down like a different path here now, this is amazing. Yeah,
I'm so grateful that you allow us to check in
(21:32):
about all sorts of things and conversations. So I think
that's probably the first time I've heard that we've seen
the angel means where he's knocked out, you know, and
she's up baking cookies afterwards. So it comes to contra
contric philosophy. He comes with what contric philosophy, which Contra
(21:54):
has really misunderstood. People confuse what it means. But it's
really an ancient philosophy that was all about receiving pleasure
just for the sake of it, because we understood it
back then in ancient times as being something that helped
us feel good, and then we had energy for others
and we shared in that collectively. And then puritanical times,
industrial Revolution, these things came in and said, no, that's
(22:15):
too indulgent. We have to work hard, we have to
kind of build this indication, and this isn't going to
get us to God. But tontric philosophy, ultimately it had
a subset that was about sex, and it really understood
that that women are meant to be these receivers of
men's semen and their energy, and but that it was
more than about producing a baby. Is really about when
(22:35):
women getting to kind of just like receive that that vibe.
And so contrict philosophy would say that men should try
to abstain from coming as long as possible so they
don't give away their life force energy with and get
too depleted. So this is a whole nother maybe whole
another show too to go down Chantra, Wait a minute,
that is a whole book. I just read that somewhere
where men should hold all of that in for creative Yeah,
(23:01):
and that's when I say life first, energy creativity is
considered part of that, which I should have maybe defined
that life first energy means kind of creative or when
we're when we're we're creating, whether it be art or
creating another you know, um podcast, or when we're building
something or you know, really that kind of idea of
being kind of inspired and envisioning things. So there are
(23:23):
some theories around men that they should kind of abstain
and do a lot of edging, riding that edge and
wait to come as long as possible. Yes, the whole
thing of abstaining for men was so that they're able
to create. That's absolutely interesting. Yeah, yeah, because then they
(23:46):
were really they were connected to their body and they
were connected to enimity with their partner, but they weren't
giving kind of all away that part of that life
first energy. They still kind of had it there in
their body and their nervous system, that kind of potent
vibe that is within um. Whereas for women it used
to be with entrant philosophy, receive, you know, let yourself
kind of receive their pleasure, connect to your own pleasures,
(24:10):
and that there's nothing depleting about that that that, you know, really,
the more women tapped in to their pleasures and desires,
the more that they were connected to a creative energy,
to an inspired energy, to a nature and to others.
And now we've really siphoned ourselves off from that where
said be in your head, beyond a computer, think your
way through, don't connect to your bodies. Women's bodies. There's
(24:32):
they call it body terrorism, the way women's bodies are
really shamed for not being the right size, the right color,
the right performative value, looking old not young. So of
course we turn away from our bodies and the life
first energy and we yeah, we go self criticism. And
so how can you have any type of body fullness
(24:52):
when everything is so distorted because what you see on
social media or what your partner could be spew and
get you that's unhealthy, or what you saw growing up
between your parents. Yeah, you're right right what you modeled.
I've had clients come to me with really distorted views
of their body because they saw their mom really hating
on their body, always on diets, calling themselves fat. So
(25:16):
that's where really like embracing our curves, embracing all our
body does for us, kind of embracing things like dance
and being sensual in our bodies as a way to
reclaim and kind of let go of the past capitalism
and the patriarchy, telling women that like they shouldn't have
this erotic energy. Audrey Lord is an amazing writer who
wrote a lot about the power of the erotic. She's
(25:37):
like a hero of mine and really was ahead of
so everybody could check out her essay called the Power
of the Erotic m I did a reading and Audrey
Lord reading Dr Martin Luther King got this beautiful cathedral
in New York, so that was my time to like, wow,
you're very right. Her writings absolutely incredible, Doctor Rachel, you
(26:04):
are absolutely incredible. Guys. We we hit the ground running
and we had such a great conversation. I think we
got y'all hooked within the first three seconds of this conversation.
My heart just goes out to people who don't know
how to release trauma so that they can receive pleasure
(26:27):
and know that they are worthy and deserving all because
of trauma. And I don't mean to be dismissed all
because of trauma, because it's so layered. Yeah, there's a
lot of different types of trauma, like I said before,
and but the good news is that we can recover
and we can heal, and so I always suggest people
(26:48):
find what's called a traumatic psychologists if they think that
they know have reactive patterns that talk therapy hasn't been
able to heal alone, and so I do a blend.
I blend talk therapy with embodiment, and there's more and
more psychologists out there doing that that do it's called semantics,
so then that you can you talk through things, but
then you also notice how it's showing up in your body,
and it's a really good blend. Are you into e M.
(27:10):
D R. I'm not trained in that, but I definitely
agree that that is a really powerful thing, and that's
considered a semantic approach as well. M M. I love
that you said. I wrote this book for anyone who's
felt homeless in their body, disconnected from their essence, and
conflicted in receiving the pleasures they deserve. My other favorite things,
(27:33):
she said, I wrote this so we could heal collectively
from the body up. Yeah. Yeah, I mean it's it's
like our mind and body really are truly one. And
so in a way, I I talked about it almost
as the body separate, mainly because I'm championing it's healing capacity.
It is sometimes a mind down approach, Like we might
(27:53):
have a mental thought that helps suit us, but a
lot of times we also need to have our from
the body up in order to get to a calmer mind.
We might need to shake, we might need to side,
We might need to kind of go into a child's
pose or get a hug. We might need those embodied
approaches first to get us to a place where mentally
we can kind of think more rationally, let go of
a distorted belief, think more kindly towards ourselves. So it's
(28:16):
kind of a beautiful interplay between kind of body up
approach top down approach. But really, when you know how
to handle both or operate with both, that really helps
with healing. That's so good you say in the book,
will we would learn how to have more strength, resilience
and magnetism that can draw others to your energy. Right,
(28:38):
all those single people out there in the dating world
keep that in mind, you know. So that's a true thing.
So do you feel like we can attract who we are? Oh?
I definitely believe a lot in the law of attraction.
Oh yeah, yeah, I mean there's some limits there but
you can't get you know, magical thinking. But absolutely like
what we kind of what we into it, what we believe,
(28:58):
what we say, you know, our energy. Yeah, like in
our vibe attracts our tribe that I definitely believe in that.
But what I say, though, is that it's don't discount
or overlook the discomfort or the pain. Because sometimes people think, well,
if I tap into the negative, I'm gonna be drawn
to negative. But there's a difference between Sometimes we need
to stop and have self compassion and own like this
(29:20):
is really hard right now, Like I'm feeling depressed right now,
I'm feeling interest right now to really understand what needs
attention within us, because we can't always just have sort
of a positive vibe, right We can't always just attract
the positive unless we've first given ourselves some some compassion
about something more painful or hard and that we're doing
the best we can. Like I'm all for gratitude, but
(29:42):
sometimes I never want people to to like overlook what
needs some compassionate attention, that's hurting or that's hard, and
just skip over that to gratitude, because then that's sort
of bypassing, you know what emotionally needs attention. I'm so
glad you said that because my heart also goes out
to people who are scared to release what they need
(30:03):
to release to attract better but at the same time
having compassion for things you know that you've got to
work on. There is a fear that folks have of
letting go. But I'm telling you, when you don't let
go of things that have happened to you or even
guess what, maybe you were the inflictor of someone else's
pain and trauma. Right When you don't let that stuff go,
(30:24):
you cannot enjoy those four different kinds of pleasure that Dr.
Rachel Allen talks about. And it definitely goes beyond maybe
what you first think of or here, I'm curious, let
us know what do you think of first when you
hear the word pleasure and do you shy away from it?
(30:48):
Do you also feel like you're only supposed to give it?
And because of you know, the people pleaser that you are. Oh,
I just love giving. I just love what everyone else
is happy. And then deep inside your feeling like nobody
sees that you need to be given to as well. Yeah,
we all benefit. It's a give and take. We give
(31:09):
back and forth, you know, and that really enhances relationships
and makes for more intimate relationships. Dr Rachel, has there
been anything we missed? Oh? Well, I mean, I want
to let's just have a whole weekend retreat with everybody
and talk about all this stuff. Oh I'm here for it.
I'm here for it because I know there are so
many more gyms that you have and I appreciate the
(31:33):
time that you spent with us today, y'all. Part three
seven eight at the retreat is coming. We gotta heal
my pleasure. I love having these conversations, and thank you
for just really being the one to be bold enough
to say we need to talk about this stuff. We
absolutely doing. The more we talk about it, the more
I heal, the more I'm confident, the more I can
(31:55):
say what I need and want in business relationships and
my personal relationships. Y'all. I mean, I'm telling you, you
gotta be get that confidence. I didn't always have it,
and I still fail at times, or at least I
do it afraid. I might have that hard conversation, but
you know, you feel good at the end because that
(32:16):
other person I just had a hard conversation the other
day and they said, Wow, I appreciate this conversation. They
acknowledge that that the type of relationship that you have,
we have. They said, when you're this intimate, you are
gonna have some friction, but some heads and some triggers,
and if you allow yourself to be vulnerable, it's all
(32:36):
about letting yourself be vulnerable. That's the new kind of hero.
Strength is anybody people let themselves be vulnerable. That's the
hero's shirt. My prayer turned into God, make my heart
of stone again, because I don't like feeling anymore. I'm
just playing um. But because those of us that have
these hard hearts, you have it because it's something defensive.
You have it to protect because you don't want to feel.
(32:59):
I get it. But that's another conversation. Dr Rachel Allen,
you checked in in a major way today. We thank you.
Thank you Michelle my pleasure listen. I believe that we've
all had traumatic experiences and sometimes we think we're over it,
but it can live in our bodies and come out
(33:19):
in many ways that we have never imagined. So I
really hope that this episode, I guess it helps you
reflect and that we all share and in certain things
and Hopefully you identify some trauma, let's keep learning about it.
And I don't want to say, you know, some people
(33:39):
say get over it or move past it. I don't
even want to say, like move past it, because you
don't know how to move past it. I didn't know
how to move past a lot of things. So that's
why it's so good to read trusted articles. Go to
a trusted licensed counselor in the area, and maybe with
you vic experienced trauma in I'm telling you, there's nothing
(34:03):
wrong with getting that healing. It's nothing wrong with wholeness. Okay,
everybody walking around with a chip on their shoulder thinking
it gives you some swag. No, you just hurt. No,
you've gone through some trauma, you're not healed from it.
I hope this episode really helps. That is my job.
(34:24):
That is my goal and my passion is that somebody
is inspired to go out get the help that they need,
or just maybe you just keep this episode in your
back pocket, you know, or you might share it with
someone else. Hopefully something is said where you're like, wait
a minute, I'm going through this, or wait a minute,
I know somebody going through this exact same thing. So
(34:45):
if you do share this episode, and again, I truly
want to say thank you for subscribing and downloading and
checking in with me every single week. Take care. You
are so loved. Yeah. Checking In with Michelle Williams is
(35:21):
a production of I Heart Radio and The Black Effect.
For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I
heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
Welcome to Checking In with Michelle Williams, a production of
My Heart Radio and The Black Effect. This week, it's
kind of spicy. Well for me, it's spicy to be
(00:23):
having this conversation with y'all. Yes, for me, this would
be on the menu with the three jalapeno peppers that
indicate its spice level. Now, y'all. Dr Rachel was so
good that we had to have her comeback for a
second time. She's a license holistic psychologist. She's twenty years
in the game. She's a writer of the brand new
(00:45):
book The Pleasure Is All Yours. She leads retreats. She's
an expert in pleasure and body fulness. I'm so excited
to welcome back Dr Rachel Atlan. So y'all tuned in.
I don't know what you need. Get you some cold
tea hot tea lemonade, coffee, your drink of choice. Dr
(01:09):
Rachel Alan, you guys is back today, and y'all we
were talking about before we even press record. It was
getting so good. We just rant, we gotta press record.
This is so good. We were talking about trauma and
pleasure and how if you don't deal and heal from trauma,
how can you experience pleasure and how sometimes trauma. Okay,
(01:36):
so what we were talking about was in the bedroom,
straight to it. Let's get straight to it. What might
be abusive to someone else might feel good to someone else.
So what was your response, Well, just talking about like
power play, you know, whether it be S and M
for some people being a dominating person in the bedroom
(01:56):
or some person some people like to be kind of
a submissive person in the better room. And part of
what's important is before you do that to have a
conversation of sort of like which role you want to be,
what your limitations are, your boundaries, your yes, your no.
So it could actually be a really good conversation for
when people are into that, but you have to have
that conversation because for some people they might think that
(02:17):
having their hair pulled and kind of their head yanked
in that way could be erotically charging, but then when
they get into it, it could trigger them into something
that is a trauma response that that they didn't even
know that they had. And so it's important of course
to have a partner that you feel emotionally safe with
that you can say, you know, stop I'm getting triggered,
or I need to back off. And some people do
(02:38):
know their triggers may because of past experiences. But you know,
if you're with a partner that you feel emotionally safe
with and and comfortable with, it can be a really
wonderful exploratory time to find out, like what is your
edge and kind of getting to that exciting edge, but
then what is not right for you and what your
limits are? Yeah, don't be d M and me. I
don't want to know you a bit room stuff. Don't
be d M and me talking about some girl. My
(03:01):
head was banged up against the headboard and honey, well
it's a free world. Go go, go ahead of a
matter of fact, we want to know. Go ahead, go
ahead and let me and Dr Rachel Allen know your
thoughts about this. We're grown, I'm in my authorities at
(03:22):
this point, so I don't have time to be shy
about talking about certain conversations. We're not offending nobody. We
are literally getting educated and having some fun. And no shame,
no shaming, what when? When? What people want to bring up? Right,
We're all about like, no more shame around all this,
no more confusion. First of all, no shame, no confusion,
and no judgment because while something might not work for you,
(03:45):
it's cool to be educated on what other people like
to like, that's what you like in your bedroom, oh ouse.
I think it's great when people know what they like, right,
That means that they even invested in themselves. They kind
of they had some mind body connection, They paid attention
they versus being shut down or just doing kind of
the same you know, the same thing maybe every time,
(04:07):
and not even exploring and being more adventurous with what
they like. M M doctor right, soul is Dr Rua.
You were talking about trauma responses, But what is trauma?
First of all, what is trauma? Well, we've always long
thought is that trauma is the actual incident, like the
car accident or somebody you know, maybe physically violating us.
(04:30):
But while that is extremely stressful, trauma is actually the
way that kind of we process and handle that, and
that then the kind of leftover residue that can exist
within us when we haven't been able to kind of
cope and heal from it. And so that's where a
lot of the science and research is going right now
in psychology and in mental health is how certain things
(04:52):
we can't talk our way through because at the time
of the event that was traumatizing, certain areas of the
brain were sponsible for language can sort of dial down
and shut down a bit, whereas other aspects of our
brain and our response cycle dial up to try to
protect us. So um a lot of work that's trying
to cope with trauma that gets stuck in the body
(05:13):
is actually going more to the body, straight to the
source of that that residue, that imprint in our body
and really working with releasing it that way, leading people
to know then new things that they can do to
kind of find agency in their body again reconnect with
their body. A lot of people disconnect from their body
and dissociate when their husband trauma. And the problem is
when you know, maybe something similar comes up again later
(05:34):
that is similar to their original traumatizing incident. People have
these reactions, you know, real reactivity, really strong reactions and
nervous system reactivity. They both they fight, they yell, and
they don't know why they suddenly had that immediate response,
and that's a sign that there's some leftover trauma in
their nervous system, reactivity in their connective tissue. So and
(05:56):
how a person reacts is that then what you call
trauma response. Yes, how we respond or react to a
situation is really telling as far as whether there's still
some older traumas in our system. If we find we
overreact to something so it's really disproportionate to what just happened,
that's a good indication that there's something unresolved kind of
(06:17):
in our system wanting to protect us because this steel
is familiar to that original trauma. But the good news
is that we all have ways within our own system.
It doesn't even require a prescription. We have ways within
our own system to move that through, to recognize it
as it comes up, have ways to kind of soothe
ourselves and regulate again, and that's working at the pleasure again.
Then how does a person recognize that they're having a
(06:40):
trauma response, Well, you have to really know your body.
So I help people in sessions with noticing breath, noticing
areas of tension like my jaw for example, of my
jaws getting stiff, Like you can even call me out
if you notice I'm starting to clench something within me,
maybe starting to kind of get constricted, maybe I'm nervous
or want and want to give a better answer. Can
be little things like that. But starting to notice also,
(07:01):
you know, little ticks and habits, and you know maybe
how your stomach and your digestion feels, or your body
temperature or your intuition what it's telling you. But yeah,
areas of constriction, areas how you you're breathing is certain
people might bring it out in us. We might find
that we get kind of KG with certain people. There
might be something about them, either from the past or
they remind us. Even people's tone of voice, somebody else's
(07:23):
tone of voice configure us to have a from a
past trauma. I've even sent oh yeah now for me
in a pleasurable way. I love the smell of Calvin
Klein etern because one of my very my first real boyfriend,
used to wear Calvin Clein Eternity a lot, and I
(07:44):
loved it so much that he sprayed it on a
bear that he got me for Valentine's right. That's something
as far as a scent, But there could be a
certain scent that just trigger somebody and you don't have
a pleasurable exactly. Yeah. I have a whole chapter in
my book on the senses, like one by one, I
(08:04):
go through each of the senses and talking about really understanding, Like,
for example, talking about scent, it's most connected to memory.
So every time you know, you come across that senter,
you will probably your your memory will go to that
boyfriend you had, or you know, some food. It brings
you back to something you know, maybe our grandma made
for us as a kid. And so so I go
(08:25):
through the book each of the senses just how we
can have them be our ally, because the more we
are connected to our senses, sort of what might be
aggravating with each of our senses and what we can do,
like in our toolbox of different things we can do
to help do their senses, whether it be putting on
calming music or essential oil or kind of smelling the
aroma of your favorite tea. But we have that agency
(08:47):
within us two soothe what could be older trauma coming
back up again through each of our senses. And the
book that Dr Rachel is talking about is called The
Pleasure Is All Yours. Reclaim your bodies, bliss, and reignite
your passion for life. But y'all, before I could even
start talking about pleasure and bliss, I wanted to talk
(09:08):
about what trauma does when it's stored in the body.
And you do not release it, How then can you
even appreciate pleasure? How can you feel pleasure or even
recognize pleasure? So what happens when you don't deal with trauma?
Dr Rachel, Well, then it leads people really find more
and more extreme ways to disconnect from self. That's where
(09:29):
we see a lot of addiction. I mean, we now
understand addiction as being a way to really kind of
escape and numb, and there can be addictions of all kinds.
I mean, workaholism is probably the most accepted in our culture, right,
but that is also a way to sort of escape
and numb from our vulnerability, from from the discomfort within. Also,
we can take it out with aggression towards others, whether
it be even judgmental towards others or aggression towards ourselves.
(09:51):
You know, a lot of self criticism and self hate
and you know, low self worth can be ways in
which when we aren't able to really have compassion and
understand and some of the ways that the leftover trauma
is like living with us and it comes out a
lot of relationships too, and we store all of that
in our bodies, which, like you said, leads to the
low self esteem, low self worth, value of our how
(10:13):
we view ourselves. Yeah, when we aren't able to really
be compassionate with some of the discomfort we have and
understand its source. And a lot of times some of
the source of our pain and trauma isn't just from incidents.
It can be collective, it can be due to systemic trauma,
can be due to intergenerational trauma from families passed on
from our ancestors. And so I think that that's another thing.
(10:33):
People always maybe blame themselves for some of their the
ways they responded to things in the world, when really
we have to look at how there's means. Systemically, a
lot of our culture is very sick. We have so
many six systems, and we have racism and sexism and
homophobia and able is um that causes trauma as well.
You know, that's really significant. You should say that because
some of us we we relate trauma to abuse, sexual abuse,
(10:58):
verbal abuse, some physical abuse that was probably going on
in the home, or trauma that's experience. Should you get
hit in the head, that's force trauma. But you just
name some other things that is traumatic racism, homophobio and
which includes bullying of all sorts. And so we were
(11:18):
talking about before we started press recording, because we were
talking about pleasure and trauma and how when that trauma
is stored in the body, how do you receive pleasure? Right?
I mean it starts with actually reconnecting to your body,
the language of your body, so the senses, as we've
been saying, also ref also can muscle constriction and blood flow,
our energy, subtle body energy, and our chakras and things
(11:42):
like intuition, just knowing what we need for rest versus
activity from all those different signals from the systems in
our body. And we tend to live in this overthinking
culture right where all we think that the mind is
the seat of all reason and can solve all our problems.
And so I think it starts with just befriending the body,
listening to the body. Body full this. Yeah, yeah, body
fulness is my thing. Yeah yeah, mindfulness is important, but
(12:05):
bodyfulness really gets us beyond mindfulness because we need to
get out of our heads. We need to go beyond
just sort of observing to also releasing physically through like movement,
to signing through massages, through repetitive motion sports, whether they'll
be walking, biking, swimming that can be really meditative. Sometimes
it's like sighing. Sometimes it's even raging. We associate that
is something that means that you're out of control, but
(12:26):
sometimes that is how we get it, like out of
this sort of the visceral kind of upper chest, you
kind of let out this, you know, a yelp or
scream and and your rage and that releases it. Now
we don't want to read on someone else, of course,
it's it's about doing it within your own room. And
but there's all these ways in which actually we've been
told that as humans we're supposed to be really buttoned
up and keep it all in. And what we now
(12:46):
know through science is that actually it's through a lot
of times releasing that lets that trauma move through. It's
just a matter of yeah, you need to Maybe you
don't do it in the grocery store, but um privacy
of your own home or people that you feel safe with.
But autifulness comes from listening to your body, finding ways
to kind of self soothe and regulate in your body
with movement or containment practices that make you feel safe
(13:09):
and secure. And then then that steps us into a
place of like feeling self confident in our mind body connection,
knowing what we need to do to kind of regulate
feel good again. And let's just feel a little bit
more comfortable to be vulnerable, right, being vulnerable. We can't
do that unless we're coming from a place of feeling
kind of some safety and security within. And then and
then also just knowing that we're worth it, giving ourselves
(13:31):
permission that we deserve to feel good. And I know
you talked in the last our last podcast about just
how like some religious messages from upbringing with say like
it's maybe naughty to feel good, to feel pleasure, sort
of a naughty thing. So I do a lot around
just helping people reclaim the pleasure is healing in the
healing way. You know what, I am a word girl,
(13:51):
and I'm looking at the definition of the word pleasure.
It is a feeling of happy, satisfaction and enjoyment. Enjoyment
and entertainment contrasted with things done out of necessity, like
she had not traveled for pleasure for a long time,
and even our activity from which one derives enjoyment. The
verb though pleasure is what you were talking about. I
(14:14):
think the church or faith based they focus so much
on the verb, which is to give sexual enjoyment or
satisfaction to you know, tell me what will pleasure you.
You know, that's sexually, but the noun itself, person, place,
or thing, pleasure being a thing in this moment, it's
not about sex, right, And the words that were also
(14:38):
connected in that definition, they said enjoyment and they said happiness.
And so part of why I like to write about
pleasure is because it's sort of like the one that's
been demonized, like when nobody disputes our right, you know,
have to have happiness and have moments of joy. But
what we know scientifically is that it is moments of pleasure.
Certain types can be unhealthy for us, of course, but
ultimately there's certain types of pleasure. Those moments add up
(15:01):
to lead to longer lasting states of joy and happiness.
So we kind of can't really get to join happiness
unless we actually let ourselves receive moments of pleasure. That's
the noun. Let's talk about the verb. And you can't
get two moments of happy and satisfaction and enjoyment in
the sexual way of pleasure based off trauma or the
(15:21):
low confidence that you have or you know, women we
talked about how we can multitask you over here thinking
about did I leave the stove on? You know, our
our minds are in so many places that you don't
sit and enjoy pleasure in that moment. Y'all are like,
wait a minute, Michelle, Now wait, this is probably the
(15:43):
first episode in which we're really going to go deep sexually, right,
But I know a lot of listeners y'all. Y'all are
enjoying pleasure in that way in the verb tense, So
the pleasure is all yours and that the right fel
the floor is yours to go in whatever directs you
(16:07):
do you want to go in. Yeah, well, really, this
is a book written for anybody who feels they aren't
deserving of feeling good, and especially if they've been conditioned.
There can be some toxic conditioning out there that says
that it's bad to receive that. You know, you're you're selfish.
And really, what I try to explain at its core
is that not only is it healing within ourselves to
(16:29):
let ourselves receive moments of healthy pleasure, but when we're
engaging in that, we are better for others. And when
people are collectively engaging in like say a music concert
or some group yoga class. Outside those moments of kind
of pleasured, embodied experiences with others also really lead to
more altruism and connection. People feel more compassionate towards others.
(16:50):
So I really see pleasure at the root of this.
It's a life force energy that opens us up to
our best selves and to really uniting and seeing the
connect action, you know, interconnection with others. So it can
be about sex, but pleasure can be about also just
enjoying being in our body, whether we're dancing or singing.
I always joked that like karaoke, I love to do it.
(17:10):
I'm not a good singer, um, and I never want
to do a karaoke battle with you, my friend, but
well because I feel I have fun and it's not
about being self conscious. So yeah, but women in particular
have had a hard time letting themselves really kind of
own their bodies, enjoy their bodies, know their bodies, and
know what their pleasures are in their body and then
ask for kind of what they want because women have
(17:33):
been really conditioned to be the givers, not their receivers.
Well that's the thing, you know, as far as gender roles.
At one point women you serve your husband, you cook,
and you clean, and and then it's almost like you
just lay there and let him get all the pleasure.
And like you said, asked for what you want. But
how many people don't even feel like they can and
(17:53):
that they should without rocking the boat, right, I mean,
it has to come from a place of self worth
and deserving. And of course what's wonderful in the relationship
is that it can be such a mutual thing when
each person is interested in how to pleasure the other.
I mean that really helps build intimacy and connection because
ultimately sex is really about bonding. It's about bonding and
really bringing out kind of that oxytocin, the bonding hormone. Okay,
(18:16):
and just as touch of any kind, I mean even
a hug that's over twenty seconds is actually able to
release oxytocin, so pleasure from you know, intimacy and physical
intimacy doesn't have to just be about penetrative sex. It
can really be about the snuggling and massage and you know,
just different ways of caressing that release that same sort
of pleasurable feeling, bonding feeling, feeling of connection, which is
(18:38):
so important. Well, that's the thing. Glad you say that,
because again you don't. I didn't hear any of this
growing up. The only time sex was talked about was
in a way of don't have sex you get too attached,
m literally and you get to attach or in church.
Like I said, I've never heard the word pleasure, and
(18:59):
the only time I hear the word pleasure it was
related to sex. But I love how in your book
you talk about no, there's like four types different kinds
of pleasure, sensual play, lively, flow, and the erotic sexual
and how you can experience each kind through the practice
of your favorite topic, body fullness. Yeah. Yeah, And there
(19:21):
can be a pleasure in giving to others, But at
my point in the book is that a lot of
times there can be people who do it too much.
You know, they aren't ever to also get back to
themselves or just like own their wants and needs and desires.
So as long as it's in balance, giving to others
can bring ah. Yeah. So speaking of giving to others,
people might feel like I just get pleasure in doing
(19:42):
for other people. But what is the difference between you
feel like they're doing it out of performance or people
pleasing And is that a trauma response. That can be
absolutely that can be a trauma response. That's a good point,
and that is I think really good to recognize, and
it's a way to sort of avoid one's own desires
and needs, needs, and the legitimacy of their own desires
and needs. It's again everything kind of imbalanced, and because giving,
(20:06):
of course, being kind and sportive of others is fabulous
and we need that in the world. We need that
empathy absolutely, but if we don't generate that back towards ourselves,
and a lot of women have a hard time doing
that when it comes to their bodies and sex, then
they're they're really disconnecting and cutting off from like a
really thriving life force energy that is regenerative and it
actually helps with resilience. We hear about people being burnt
(20:28):
out a lot nowadays with hustle culture, but actually like
getting that massage from a professional or your partner, or
or even just having your partner go down on you
and and just exploring how that feels good and receiving
in that way. That is a regenerative life firce energy
that like really opens us up to know it a minute.
It's a regenerative life force energy. Rachel, you know us
(20:49):
a kind of some big words. She makes it sound
so sophisticated, and it's a really like, honey, I meet
this done because it is its off life force energy
that I need right right. Well, I know this is
more of a heteroonormative model, but if you look at
say a man coming into a woman like true, look
(21:12):
as he comes, he is giving a life first energy
into the woman's body. She is meant to be a receiver.
That's why why often men are tired after sex and
women have energy often after sex. Oh wow, I'm going
down like a different path here now, this is amazing. Yeah,
I'm so grateful that you allow us to check in
(21:32):
about all sorts of things and conversations. So I think
that's probably the first time I've heard that we've seen
the angel means where he's knocked out, you know, and
she's up baking cookies afterwards. So it comes to contra
contric philosophy. He comes with what contric philosophy, which Contra
(21:54):
has really misunderstood. People confuse what it means. But it's
really an ancient philosophy that was all about receiving pleasure
just for the sake of it, because we understood it
back then in ancient times as being something that helped
us feel good, and then we had energy for others
and we shared in that collectively. And then puritanical times,
industrial Revolution, these things came in and said, no, that's
(22:15):
too indulgent. We have to work hard, we have to
kind of build this indication, and this isn't going to
get us to God. But tontric philosophy, ultimately it had
a subset that was about sex, and it really understood
that that women are meant to be these receivers of
men's semen and their energy, and but that it was
more than about producing a baby. Is really about when
(22:35):
women getting to kind of just like receive that that vibe.
And so contrict philosophy would say that men should try
to abstain from coming as long as possible so they
don't give away their life force energy with and get
too depleted. So this is a whole nother maybe whole
another show too to go down Chantra, Wait a minute,
that is a whole book. I just read that somewhere
where men should hold all of that in for creative Yeah,
(23:01):
and that's when I say life first, energy creativity is
considered part of that, which I should have maybe defined
that life first energy means kind of creative or when
we're when we're we're creating, whether it be art or
creating another you know, um podcast, or when we're building
something or you know, really that kind of idea of
being kind of inspired and envisioning things. So there are
(23:23):
some theories around men that they should kind of abstain
and do a lot of edging, riding that edge and
wait to come as long as possible. Yes, the whole
thing of abstaining for men was so that they're able
to create. That's absolutely interesting. Yeah, yeah, because then they
(23:46):
were really they were connected to their body and they
were connected to enimity with their partner, but they weren't
giving kind of all away that part of that life
first energy. They still kind of had it there in
their body and their nervous system, that kind of potent
vibe that is within um. Whereas for women it used
to be with entrant philosophy, receive, you know, let yourself
kind of receive their pleasure, connect to your own pleasures,
(24:10):
and that there's nothing depleting about that that that, you know, really,
the more women tapped in to their pleasures and desires,
the more that they were connected to a creative energy,
to an inspired energy, to a nature and to others.
And now we've really siphoned ourselves off from that where
said be in your head, beyond a computer, think your
way through, don't connect to your bodies. Women's bodies. There's
(24:32):
they call it body terrorism, the way women's bodies are
really shamed for not being the right size, the right color,
the right performative value, looking old not young. So of
course we turn away from our bodies and the life
first energy and we yeah, we go self criticism. And
so how can you have any type of body fullness
(24:52):
when everything is so distorted because what you see on
social media or what your partner could be spew and
get you that's unhealthy, or what you saw growing up
between your parents. Yeah, you're right right what you modeled.
I've had clients come to me with really distorted views
of their body because they saw their mom really hating
on their body, always on diets, calling themselves fat. So
(25:16):
that's where really like embracing our curves, embracing all our
body does for us, kind of embracing things like dance
and being sensual in our bodies as a way to
reclaim and kind of let go of the past capitalism
and the patriarchy, telling women that like they shouldn't have
this erotic energy. Audrey Lord is an amazing writer who
wrote a lot about the power of the erotic. She's
(25:37):
like a hero of mine and really was ahead of
so everybody could check out her essay called the Power
of the Erotic m I did a reading and Audrey
Lord reading Dr Martin Luther King got this beautiful cathedral
in New York, so that was my time to like, wow,
you're very right. Her writings absolutely incredible, Doctor Rachel, you
(26:04):
are absolutely incredible. Guys. We we hit the ground running
and we had such a great conversation. I think we
got y'all hooked within the first three seconds of this conversation.
My heart just goes out to people who don't know
how to release trauma so that they can receive pleasure
(26:27):
and know that they are worthy and deserving all because
of trauma. And I don't mean to be dismissed all
because of trauma, because it's so layered. Yeah, there's a
lot of different types of trauma, like I said before,
and but the good news is that we can recover
and we can heal, and so I always suggest people
(26:48):
find what's called a traumatic psychologists if they think that
they know have reactive patterns that talk therapy hasn't been
able to heal alone, and so I do a blend.
I blend talk therapy with embodiment, and there's more and
more psychologists out there doing that that do it's called semantics,
so then that you can you talk through things, but
then you also notice how it's showing up in your body,
and it's a really good blend. Are you into e M.
(27:10):
D R. I'm not trained in that, but I definitely
agree that that is a really powerful thing, and that's
considered a semantic approach as well. M M. I love
that you said. I wrote this book for anyone who's
felt homeless in their body, disconnected from their essence, and
conflicted in receiving the pleasures they deserve. My other favorite things,
(27:33):
she said, I wrote this so we could heal collectively
from the body up. Yeah. Yeah, I mean it's it's
like our mind and body really are truly one. And
so in a way, I I talked about it almost
as the body separate, mainly because I'm championing it's healing capacity.
It is sometimes a mind down approach, Like we might
(27:53):
have a mental thought that helps suit us, but a
lot of times we also need to have our from
the body up in order to get to a calmer mind.
We might need to shake, we might need to side,
We might need to kind of go into a child's
pose or get a hug. We might need those embodied
approaches first to get us to a place where mentally
we can kind of think more rationally, let go of
a distorted belief, think more kindly towards ourselves. So it's
(28:16):
kind of a beautiful interplay between kind of body up
approach top down approach. But really, when you know how
to handle both or operate with both, that really helps
with healing. That's so good you say in the book,
will we would learn how to have more strength, resilience
and magnetism that can draw others to your energy. Right,
(28:38):
all those single people out there in the dating world
keep that in mind, you know. So that's a true thing.
So do you feel like we can attract who we are? Oh?
I definitely believe a lot in the law of attraction.
Oh yeah, yeah, I mean there's some limits there but
you can't get you know, magical thinking. But absolutely like
what we kind of what we into it, what we believe,
(28:58):
what we say, you know, our energy. Yeah, like in
our vibe attracts our tribe that I definitely believe in that.
But what I say, though, is that it's don't discount
or overlook the discomfort or the pain. Because sometimes people think, well,
if I tap into the negative, I'm gonna be drawn
to negative. But there's a difference between Sometimes we need
to stop and have self compassion and own like this
(29:20):
is really hard right now, Like I'm feeling depressed right now,
I'm feeling interest right now to really understand what needs
attention within us, because we can't always just have sort
of a positive vibe, right We can't always just attract
the positive unless we've first given ourselves some some compassion
about something more painful or hard and that we're doing
the best we can. Like I'm all for gratitude, but
(29:42):
sometimes I never want people to to like overlook what
needs some compassionate attention, that's hurting or that's hard, and
just skip over that to gratitude, because then that's sort
of bypassing, you know what emotionally needs attention. I'm so
glad you said that because my heart also goes out
to people who are scared to release what they need
(30:03):
to release to attract better but at the same time
having compassion for things you know that you've got to
work on. There is a fear that folks have of
letting go. But I'm telling you, when you don't let
go of things that have happened to you or even
guess what, maybe you were the inflictor of someone else's
pain and trauma. Right When you don't let that stuff go,
(30:24):
you cannot enjoy those four different kinds of pleasure that Dr.
Rachel Allen talks about. And it definitely goes beyond maybe
what you first think of or here, I'm curious, let
us know what do you think of first when you
hear the word pleasure and do you shy away from it?
(30:48):
Do you also feel like you're only supposed to give it?
And because of you know, the people pleaser that you are. Oh,
I just love giving. I just love what everyone else
is happy. And then deep inside your feeling like nobody
sees that you need to be given to as well. Yeah,
we all benefit. It's a give and take. We give
(31:09):
back and forth, you know, and that really enhances relationships
and makes for more intimate relationships. Dr Rachel, has there
been anything we missed? Oh? Well, I mean, I want
to let's just have a whole weekend retreat with everybody
and talk about all this stuff. Oh I'm here for it.
I'm here for it because I know there are so
many more gyms that you have and I appreciate the
(31:33):
time that you spent with us today, y'all. Part three
seven eight at the retreat is coming. We gotta heal
my pleasure. I love having these conversations, and thank you
for just really being the one to be bold enough
to say we need to talk about this stuff. We
absolutely doing. The more we talk about it, the more
I heal, the more I'm confident, the more I can
(31:55):
say what I need and want in business relationships and
my personal relationships. Y'all. I mean, I'm telling you, you
gotta be get that confidence. I didn't always have it,
and I still fail at times, or at least I
do it afraid. I might have that hard conversation, but
you know, you feel good at the end because that
(32:16):
other person I just had a hard conversation the other
day and they said, Wow, I appreciate this conversation. They
acknowledge that that the type of relationship that you have,
we have. They said, when you're this intimate, you are
gonna have some friction, but some heads and some triggers,
and if you allow yourself to be vulnerable, it's all
(32:36):
about letting yourself be vulnerable. That's the new kind of hero.
Strength is anybody people let themselves be vulnerable. That's the
hero's shirt. My prayer turned into God, make my heart
of stone again, because I don't like feeling anymore. I'm
just playing um. But because those of us that have
these hard hearts, you have it because it's something defensive.
You have it to protect because you don't want to feel.
(32:59):
I get it. But that's another conversation. Dr Rachel Allen,
you checked in in a major way today. We thank you.
Thank you Michelle my pleasure listen. I believe that we've
all had traumatic experiences and sometimes we think we're over it,
but it can live in our bodies and come out
(33:19):
in many ways that we have never imagined. So I
really hope that this episode, I guess it helps you
reflect and that we all share and in certain things
and Hopefully you identify some trauma, let's keep learning about it.
And I don't want to say, you know, some people
(33:39):
say get over it or move past it. I don't
even want to say, like move past it, because you
don't know how to move past it. I didn't know
how to move past a lot of things. So that's
why it's so good to read trusted articles. Go to
a trusted licensed counselor in the area, and maybe with
you vic experienced trauma in I'm telling you, there's nothing
(34:03):
wrong with getting that healing. It's nothing wrong with wholeness. Okay,
everybody walking around with a chip on their shoulder thinking
it gives you some swag. No, you just hurt. No,
you've gone through some trauma, you're not healed from it.
I hope this episode really helps. That is my job.
(34:24):
That is my goal and my passion is that somebody
is inspired to go out get the help that they need,
or just maybe you just keep this episode in your
back pocket, you know, or you might share it with
someone else. Hopefully something is said where you're like, wait
a minute, I'm going through this, or wait a minute,
I know somebody going through this exact same thing. So
(34:45):
if you do share this episode, and again, I truly
want to say thank you for subscribing and downloading and
checking in with me every single week. Take care. You
are so loved. Yeah. Checking In with Michelle Williams is
(35:21):
a production of I Heart Radio and The Black Effect.
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