August 5, 2025 • 42 mins
In this episode, Michelle welcomes back licensed trauma therapist and author Dr. Shanita Brown to discuss her new book, Healing and Thriving After Domestic Violence: A Practical Guide for Black Women. With honesty and vulnerability, Dr. Brown shares her personal journey from survivor to healer, the process of reclaiming her voice, and why Black women need culturally competent resources to break the cycle of abuse.
Together, Michelle and Dr. Brown explore how trauma impacts the mind, body, and spirit, the power of faith and therapy in healing, and why consistency is key in the recovery process. They also unpack generational patterns, spiritual abuse, and the shame that keeps many women silent. Whether you're a survivor, supporter, or simply seeking understanding, CHECK IN to this episode for truth, tools, and hope.
National Domestic Violence Hotline: 1-800-799-SAFE (7233)
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Checking In with Michelle Williams, a production of
iHeartRadio and The Black Effect. Today's episode is going to
be really special, but at the same time possibly triggering
to some and I want to acknowledge that I always
(00:23):
want to keep a safe space while discussing sensitive topics.
My guest today is none other than doctor Shanita Brown.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
I just love all that she's doing.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
She is doing heavy work while carrying heaviness through what
she has endured as well, and we're going to talk
more about it on this episode of Checking In. Hello,
and welcome to another week of Checking In. How y'all
(00:59):
been doing. Y'all been behaving this summer? Have you been
outside showing out well? On this week's episode. I am
excited to have someone absolutely phenomenal, truly special in the
field of mental health. I am excited to welcome back
(01:19):
to Checking In doctor Shanita Brown, who is a licensed
trauma therapist. Her work you've seen her here on Checking In,
You've seen her in Essence Therapy for Black Girls Parents,
just so many amazing outlets for us. She just released
(01:40):
a book called Healing and Thriving After Domestic Violence, A
Practical Guide for Black women. It is out just now.
I'm excited to welcome doctor Shanita Brown.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Thank you, thank you, thanking, Hello everyone, I'm so excited
to return. Thank you for the hochey.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Yes, this book, and I also want to offer a
slight warning for people that are listening. You might be
your survivor, you might know, you might have been a
caretaker or a loved one you know has gone through
walked through healing through domestic violence.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
We just want you to know that this is a
safe space.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Doctor Brown, Will you tell us how this book was launched?
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Wow, birth, thank you for honoring survivors and uplifting survivors
maybe in this space. And I want you all to
know that I am with you. This book started five
years ago. I was living in Virginia and en Richmond
at the time, and at the time I wanted to
offer a resource for survivors in general. I was just
(02:53):
thinking about all survivors and you know, kind of share
what that has been like from a therapist point of
view and work with survivors. And the more I decided
to write, the more I decided, you know, that I
wanted to do this work. I began to find my
voice and I began to reclaim my power and say,
wait a minute, China, Wait a minute, Nina, you know
(03:13):
you can't do this without talking about what you have experienced.
And so it began to shift from me that doing
this book, I needed to share my story, my research
for specifically for black women survivors, because we do not
have enough resources our experiences. I often overlook we have
(03:34):
been silent for so long, you know, thinking that you know,
we're too strong to experience to be a survivor, and
too resilient, you know, to to overcome. And so I
wanted to make sure that our voices are heard. Uh,
there's a space for us, that we are firmed, that
we are validated. And life is possible after abuse. You
(03:56):
can't thrive after abuse.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Wow, life is possible after abuse and you can thrive
after abuse? Abuse really messes with your soul and your mind.
For you to say life is possible. How did you
know that life was possible.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Through through my relationship with Christ? In therapy? There's that
word clap cloud or listen.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Wait wait, wait, wait wait, you are a therapist. You
have the word doctor. You went to school for this.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
You mean to.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Tell me the doctor sees a doctor or a therapy.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Yes, because for one, I'm human. You know, I have
many identities, and I want listeners to understand that, yes, therapists,
we consult with each other, but when we're dealing with
life's challenges and tribulations and life is life, and it's
okay to see a therapist, right, And that helps me
to unpack and also to be better seen and also
(05:07):
to hold space for my clients. So I got to
deal with my stuff. So there is an ethical side
to this as far as my credential and making sure
that I deal with my own matters, but also I
have stuff like everyone else, and I felt the need that. Okay, Lord,
I said, send me a trauma therapist. I specifically prayed
when I was in Richmond for trauma therapists and I
(05:28):
waited for months and it was life changing for me
and I discussed it in the book. She was a Christian.
We prayed before our sessions, after sessions, and it was beautiful.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Yeah, I'm excited that we can also find therapist specific
to our faith, our cultural needs. I love psychologytoday dot com.
There's filters where you could be like, I hope they.
Speaker 4 (05:54):
Love pets, right, Like, maybe not specifically like pets, but
you somebody who who do you want them to acknowledge
your faith, your culture, because I've talked with people that say, hey,
I don't know, I need someone who can understand and.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Advocate for me just being black. That's right there, we
need therapy for that.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
That's telling, right. I mean, you know, being black, a
black woman, it's hard in America. And so you're right.
I wanted a black therapist, and I discussed in my
book that we have to be open that in a
mental health profession we don't have a lot of black
therapists and being open to someone who does not look
(06:39):
like you, right. And my trauma therapist, my very first
trauma therapist, was not black. So I empower readers to
be open a trauma therapist. I didn't know she was
going to be a Christian therapist. I didn't know she
was going to open up with prayer, but she did ask.
And I have claus to say, well, that's a brown
I want to I want to a black therapist, but
(07:02):
not too churchy, you know, like if I want to yeah,
so not too churchy. If I want to say I'm
mad at God, I want to have the space and
freedom to do so without feeling judge. And I was like,
of course you can say you're mad at God about
something that happened, right.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Speaking of that having balance, someone could be on and
listening right now, why did this happen to me or
why did this happen to my mother or my sister?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
God, why did you allow that to happen?
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Right? And that's a that's a very great question, and
I hear that a lot. And as a therapist, it's
important that we ask individuals about the role of faith
in their lives and their beliefs and what do they
believe about God. Like we sometimes we have to unpack
what we were taught. A lot of times we were
taught things that just simply aren't true, but it shapes
(07:54):
who we are and how we see things. So, Yes,
Survivs in my book, and Sid I work with, said,
you know, I'm mad at God because he is punishing
me because I am not obeying my husband and so
this is his way of punishing me. And I said, so,
there's nothing about abuse that aligns with God. Right. That's again,
(08:19):
abuse aligns with God. And we begin to shift and
really break down what you were taught or what do
you believe about God? They begin to understand. Okay, so
let me go to some scriptures for empowerment.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Nothing about abuse aligns with God. That but I'm sure
it probably takes a couple sessions, because you can hear it.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
You might even I believe that the sun is gonna rise.
I believe God.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Do I accept when you said nothing about abuse aligns
with God? We have to accept that. Whether it's a
form of physical abuse, verbal abuse, sexual abuse, it does
not align.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
It does it? Because even spiritu abuse, Michelle, because spiritual
abuse of abuse his power and control right when one
person tries to maintain power and control over another individual
in a relationship, and they do that in a variety
of ways. And so I have it in my book,
chapter four call It's titled We've Come This Far by
(09:29):
Faith that is dedicated to identify and help saviv as
Black women who hold a strong identity regarding their spirituality
and the role of faith and how that can be
a source of strength and empowerment but also as a
tool for control. Sh So what that looks like is
(09:55):
abusers are saying you can't go to Bible study tonight,
or if you don't practice their same faith or if
I identify as you know, I had someone who said
that no, I was a Muslim or a Jew. Yeah,
(10:15):
and I married someone who was a Christian and we
clashed a lot. So I became isolated and wasn't able
to connect with my faith community.
Speaker 5 (10:24):
Mm hmmm.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
So a sign of abuse, which can turn of course physically,
is isolation. You begin to and it can start as
something where doctor Brown, there are certain little things that
we might think have we're cute, he was, you know,
he wants.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Me to hisself.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
She wants me to herself.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Now, by the way, there are times where in relationships
you it does call for I just want some me time.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
I just want some I just want some us time.
But out the that's better than a pattern.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
That's the key word, Michelle Bingo, the target, a pattern
of controlling behavior. There is a difference from someone saying,
let's can you pass and I want to spend some
time together. I want some meantime. But when you begin
to notice a pattern of oh, you're not going with
your friends, or I don't want you to go, or
you're isolating yourself or from your family, next thing, you know,
(11:27):
that becomes a pattern. Yeah, that's a red flag. It's
a pattern of controlling behavior. Yes, ma'am, that's pattern. And
it's okay to have me time, but at some point
I should be able to say, hey, baby, you know,
I'm going out with my lot sisters or I'm hanging
out with my family, I'm having a bunch that I'm
going to budge, and they should be okay with that,
(11:50):
not trying to get you. Oh, you don't never do
anything with me, or you're not doing that, or when
you go out with your friends. Then they then they
tend to blow up your phone, not back yet, send
me a picture of what y'are doing, trying to determine
if you were really there. If that's the part that
people do not understand. Okay, well, yeah, we have separate lives.
But then it constantly texts you what you're doing, send
(12:12):
me a picture? Are you really there? I don't believe
y'all when you get to the point of going to
blunt with your girlfriends. Okay, okay, I'm okay with it.
I'll let you go. Let right, I'll let you go,
and then when you get there, send me a picture
what y'all doing. You can't even enjoy be present with
your friends from constantly on your cell phone and looking.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
At Yeah, so we can know the difference where Udi
feels cute, he just being protective. No, this is starting
to turn into control. So we just have to pay
attention to the patterns. And everything ain't cute.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
Everything isn't cute. And so then when you get home
it becomes to an argument. You stay too long, that's
what it looks like. Okay, so we're talking about going out.
I just want to break this down. So if you're
ever feeling afraid in a relationship, that's a red flag
that is abusive. Right, because a lot of people and
(13:10):
not break this down the book, like, so what is healthy,
what is unhealthy? And then what is abusive? If you
are feeling afraid to do something in a relationship that
isn't indicated that it is abusive. No one should be
afraid in a a romantic relationship should never be afraid. Okay,
so if you're calling each other names back and forth, right,
(13:32):
that that would be unhealthy, a little toxic. But when
when you are afraid, that's an indicator honey, hunh that's abusive.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
When you were saying real bigger back and forth. You know,
even you think that's normal because maybe we saw that
growing up, doctor Brown. I was in a session once
and the therapists actually had.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
To tell me, baby, that's dysfunction.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
Mh.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Just because you saw growing up and.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Maybe they even stayed together for years later, that was dysfunction.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
How can we I guess it just takes courage.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
It takes courage, and it takes and I discussed that
I witnessed abuse and in peace and chaos, but I
also noticed that my father changed, right, So it became
very the first image of a relationship starts at home.
That that is your template, that's the blueprint. So it
takes courage to say and step out and say, well,
(14:52):
just because I witnesses doesn't mean I want to continue
in this the cycle of abuse.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
The cycle of abuse, because too, the cycle continues because there's.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
No outlet for them to share. Don't talk about don't talk.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
About this, you just see it and you keep going.
And so witness and abuse, you're more you're more at
risk to get into that type of relationship if you
witnessed it, right, and so one of those things, I mean,
that's what that was a hard thing for me to
decide to do. I want to put that in my book,
and I did because I did witness abuse and I
(15:29):
did see that my father change. So that became very
confusing for me, which led me to stay in a relationship.
Was like, Okay, well hmm, that change, so why can't
he change? So I'm gonna just stay in this little
bit longer. That's what I saw.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
It's almost more so what you saw than what you
were told.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
That affects the psychological right, you know, And so we
we it's like, well, this is all I know, but
we got to get to a place where it might.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Be all you know.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
But it don't feel good and do we have to
tolerate that and we.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
Have to talk about it. Parents have to talk about
it with their kids, especially in black families, to say
this was wrong and use developmentally a developmental appropriate words
with your children. And so many survivors that I've worked with, like,
you know, I don't want to say anything to my kids.
I'm like, you can't see it, five six, seven years old?
They see it. You know why they acted out at school.
(16:30):
It's a number of reasons, but they become you know,
you can become you can be also at more risk
for repeating that same behavior. Be an abuser. Yes, how
I manage conflict, that's what I know. To put my
hands on somebody's.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Throat, y'all, we can't do that. You can't accept that.
That's not normal. Like like I know people have they fatishit.
But two that's another's.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
That's something different.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
That's something different.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
But in a conversation and they just like put their
hands on you, y'all, that is not okay. And I'm
sorry that if anyone is listening that you thought it
was okay. Let this be a signed to you. Two
black women on here who love you, yes, to know
(17:27):
that's not okay. And if you find yourself in that situation,
I know it's easier said than I've heard this a lot.
Something happened to someone and I was like, well, why
didn't you just leave? And I meant, well when I
said it, especially when it's repeated.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
Yeah, it's that psycho abuse, you know, it's it's the
impact of trauma bonding and and savivrs say for so
many reasons, and Saviva's if you are listening and you
are in a relationship and this is hitting home for you,
we are not bashing you that you are in it.
I want you to know that it is very dangerous
(18:07):
to leave an abusive relationship and to consider working with
an advocate or DV advocate to plan your exit. It's
called safety planet. And because of a number of reasons,
you may have children together, or financial like there are
literally people who rely on their partners for everything, right
financial views, I don't know anything about my account or
(18:30):
who pays what because he's doing or they're doing everything,
she's doing everything right, and so on. Financial reasons, trauma, bonding,
or you love them right, this is what you think
love is. There's so many reasons. But you can't just
leave like that. I mean, it's not that simple. And
the research says it takes approximately seven attempts to successfully leave.
(18:53):
That means seven tries and then like, okay, I'm following
your leave. Yeah I go back, or I want to
give him another chance, or I have survivors and clients
that I've worked with and say, you know, doctor Brown,
I wanted to give this one more try. And I'm saying, Okay,
if that's what you wanted to do, I'm going to
support you. Not to empower clients to make the decisions
(19:14):
for themselves. Yeah, it's my job to educate them. The
book is a companion and a guy and a supplement
to therapy.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
You got to get the therapy. Well it is, you
do say it is a practical guy.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
It is a practical guy for black women understand the
role of our intersecting identities and how we show up
systemic challenges. And that's why this book is so important
because black women we don't have enough resources. Our voices
are often overlooked when you have an intersection of sexism
and racism and oppression and how we are treated. Okay,
(19:50):
so now we're talking about domestic violence in the mainstream, right,
it's domestic violence or domestic abuse. But are you talking
about why black women are experiencing domestic violence more than
any ethnicity. I don't see that on the headlights.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
That's news to me.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Black women are experiencing rates higher of domestic violence than
any other race.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
Compared to thirty four percent to our white kincross white women. Yeah, yeah,
maybe nine second to someone is assaulted.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
So we've got some work.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
You've got work to do.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
We've got some work to do.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Your book, Healing and Thriving after Domestic Violence a practical
Guide for Black women is getting rave reviews, but it's
also getting support and reviews from survivors themselves.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
It is survivor approved.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Now, you wrote this for survivors in mind, but you
actually had survivors contribute to What was that like?
Speaker 3 (20:58):
It was? It was beautif it was beautiful. I had
no idea how I wanted to incorporate survivors stories on thriving.
I hadn't thought about that. But the more I begin
to heal, and the more I began to recognize what
thriving looked like for me, I said, let me incorporate
(21:20):
people who wanted to share and uplift others on this journey.
There's life. You can't do this, you can do it,
you can make it. Yeah, this is what thrhyment looks like.
It's like navigating triggers. There's a chapter dedicated to understanding
domestic violence trauma because I didn't understand five years ago
(21:41):
how that trauma was showing up for me, and I
experienced the abuse and during my undergrad years in my
early twenties, I had no idea of how that's deal
with impact my belief system. I am not good enough,
I'm not worthy so we don't talk about how that
trauma impacts our belief system. I'm not learning it was
(22:06):
my fault. I am not good enough, and how that
settles into how bring it in our body our belief
system it sits in our body. I didn't understand the
importance of movement til I begin to do my own
work and moving that out my body and doing trauma
(22:27):
work to reprocess memories that were stored. And so I
do talk about that and incorporating survivors and for other
suvivas to hear that they're going to therapy or they're
now examining and looking for green flags more so than
red flags. Sometimes we're going into I'm looking for the
red flags, But how about looking for the green flags?
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Yes, look for the green flags. I love that.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Healing after trauma is definitely possible, but it does take consistency.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Me get award when it's.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
Oh, that was my hardest chapter.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Come on, talk about it, doctor Brown.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
That was my hardest chapter. Consistency and I had to
take breaks and a couple of therapists, but they were said, girl,
just have a shot out to Quaila and keep writing
what was happening. I was having flashbacks and I didn't
yet have the two to navigate all of the flooding
(23:40):
and the images and know that at times I had disassociated,
I had disconnected for myself. Oh so I did a
lot of writing at the beach, specifically on the chapter
Understanding Domes of Valence Trauma. I love the beach and
(24:01):
being close to the water. I feel very close to
God and connected. And I remember praying and said, God,
help heal this part of me that I have never
shared with anyone. There were just tears. I mean, it's
almost like a puzzle when we disassociate, right, It's a
jigsaw puzzle. You think of a movie, and think of
(24:22):
a Marvel movie right in the beginning, and things flash
in the beginning of the movie, various images a movie,
like a Marvel movie, and it's like a jigsaw puzzle,
and you're trying to look and then that's how it is,
spotty in your brain. I have an image here, I
have an image there. I have a pain here. I
have not in my stomach. That trauma that we experienced
(24:43):
from domestic violence can shatter your self work. I mean
that's the goal of the bezer to beat you down,
that you that you just think you're nothing. Not psychological abuse.
It's much more damage damaging than physical abuse. I mean
you could so we can't see the invisible wounds, right,
We can't see the invisible.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Wounds, which sometimes can be almost more destructive or equal
to the wounds that you can see.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
Right, Okay, if I get you know, I get some stitches,
and I have a scar, and a mind scar.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Gets me Neilsporn, it'll help, you know, it'll even help
lessen the appearance of the scar or the one, if
you're doing it consistent, right.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
The consistent part of therapy, Michelle was that, and sometimes
we have to take breaks, right, So I do encourage
my clients. Sometimes it can be a lot to bring
up a lot of memories and trying to reprocess trauma.
But get with someone who knows what they're doing right,
and but be consistent with that. If you take a break,
I'm gonna take a break. But I have tools to
help me in between that part, not just take a
(25:49):
break and not going back. I don't have any tools
like how you helping yourself move forward? We want to
get to thriving. So you take a break, but I
have some tools. I'm gonna journal I'm gonna exercise, I'm
gonna pray, I'm gonna meditate, I'm gonna get So.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
All of that is even therapy just sitting down with
a therapist, which is great for me because you know me,
doctor Brown, I'll be why you ain't, Why you ain't
doing it what.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
You're supposed to be. Did you do your culture like some.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
I can understand why, Like I can't.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Work out every day.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
I need a break even so the work that I
did do give it time and process.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
To let the work, let the work work right.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
You know why that's important because therapy isn't meant to
be forever. Yes, you have to practice, use your tools.
The same way if you go to physical therapy for
your shoulder, if you aren't practicing your rehab exercises, the
author bey the surge, be like, so what are you
doing in physical therapy? I gave you a prescription for therapy.
(26:57):
The physical therapist say, you're not getting better? Are you practices? So?
Are you journaling? Are you taking deep reps? Are you
using your container? Are you exercising, are you getting are
you getting rests? Are you taking your medication?
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Yeah, that part when we got a lot to unpack
because I also heard you say that even after you
are out of the out of the abusive relationship, that
abusive environment, it's the long term effects of the trauma
that you still have to heal from. So I want
people to know, like, even today, ten years later, you
(27:35):
still might, like you said, you get a nod in
your stomach every now and then, but give yourself grace
and don't feel like I might as well just go
back if I'm a feeling the same way.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Yeah, because we're always be triggered to a certain degree
because we are alive. We have an active nervous system, right,
So it's important to understand that, you know, I'm ten
years out understanding how that trauma is showing up for
me and my relationships. For example, I describe and discuss
that I would be I would be very reactive when
(28:12):
I was disrespected and I didn't understand why it just
I didn't even understand what was happening to me. And
I said, you know, I need to figure this out,
because you can be reactive at work, you could be
in a business in a business meeting, and you can
be with family members and people are looking like, so,
how do we get there? Like someone is just disagreeing
(28:34):
with you. You found it disrespectful and you just fas
out on them. Wow, we're not rying. We need to
have more discussion about Okay, how is that trauma showing
up for me? In my current relationships, family, friends, work,
faith communities. I take things from so personal all the time.
(28:57):
And my pastor saying, you need to hold off on
this program right now. Oh, he don't like me, she
don't like me. They y'all have to get me. I
can't never get anything accomplished. Like the pastor said, hold
off right now, maybe in the next quarter. How do
we get that the pastor doesn't like you because your
proposal for a program was not approved. But we have
(29:18):
to ask ourselves for hard questions. Why am I showing up?
Why am I acting like this? Why am I jumping
to this conclusion? What's really going on? So I had
that conversation. I was like, Nita, you gotta take a
look at this Liz moment.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
Literally just yesterday, I jumped to the worst conclusion about
the situation. I was expecting the package, and the worst conclusion.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
I jumped to is because you have stolen.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
It.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Found out they didn't put the person.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
The shipper didn't put the unit number on, and I
was like, I have to like ask God for forgiveness.
I had to ask the person that I was like,
how can I make this up to you?
Speaker 2 (30:01):
I am so sorry?
Speaker 1 (30:03):
And I was like, we be reactive or so I
had to look at me. Okay, you still got some
trust issues, right, but I've been through enough therapy to
even be self aware to.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Do that little process.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Now I look back and like, you know, you could
have done differently.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
You could have even thought it right.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
But even some stuff don't even have to come out
of your mouth until you even process.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Why was this even a thought?
Speaker 3 (30:35):
Let's get there exactly?
Speaker 1 (30:37):
Why was it even a thought? I'm looking at a
post right now? And you said if healing.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
After trauma was a picture.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
Healing can look like crying even after months of progress,
and then numb the next That means you're learning how
to feel safely again. Healing can look like crying after
months of progress. Tears don't erase growth, they honor it.
Healing can look like laughing during the day and grieving
(31:14):
at night. You said, joy and pain can coexist. Both
are signs of you're human. You said, healing won't always
make sense, but it will make change. Healing won't always
make sense, but it will make change.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
So as I'm going through.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
Your carousel, I'm seeing the picture of what healing looks like.
When my dad passed, I wanted my mom to know, like,
you know, if something is funny, you could laugh, or
you know, it's okay to cry. Healing after trauma, healing
after loss. Like you said, it's all those things. It
(31:55):
is the ups and downs and that if you were abused,
I love that we can heal from it and we
can laugh about it, even in reflection, even crime. What
about the person that's still carrying shame because they said
(32:16):
I knew better?
Speaker 3 (32:17):
Wow, that you know, there's that shame is in a
whole other level. Right. You have guilt. We carry so
much guilt. And one of the things I help clients
with understanding about guilt and shame. It's like Gil implies,
you did something wrong, So you have to ask yourself,
what did I do wrong. I can't do anything about
what I didn't know then, but I can do something
(32:39):
about what I know now. Right, because we were always
told that, well, if you wouldn't have done this, I
wouldn't have threw a glass at you, or I wouldn't
have slapped you. But that shame is internal and it
really attacks that belief system, and that takes some work
with a therapist to really help you release the shame
(33:01):
to a deeper level. I feel shame for what I'm doing,
like I didn't cause this, This was my fault. We
believed that for so long when we stay solid, and
that's why many of us don't come forward. I'm a
black woman. Do you know what that means? I'm strong, resilient.
(33:22):
How dare I share my story on social media?
Speaker 1 (33:28):
I think we've answered the question that I was going
to ask, why do we stay silent as black women?
Speaker 3 (33:33):
Shame?
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Because it's shame.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Or the mask of people thought I had it all together,
but I was being abused.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
Some people perceived me. Yeah, and letting go of shame
was so liberating for me. That is a process understanding
how the trauma attack my belief system or Carrie for
so long, I am not worthy, I am not good enough.
(34:04):
It was my fault. I cared that for years. But
doing the work to unpack that and understand how it
changed my belief system, I begin to develop new healthy beliefs,
I am worthy of relationship free of violence.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
It's almost like when we talk about the shame, how
we would talk to one of our best friends is
how we need to talk to us, because if it
was to our one of our close friends or somebody
at church that we just love, we would be.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Saying, it's not your fault.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
You are so amazing, you're strong, you are beautiful, you
are gifted.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
You gotta let that shame go.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Now, we also know it's more than an affirmation of
what somebody speaks into you or what you speaking to yourself,
because it does require but it's almost like do the
self talk to yourself how you would talk to your daughter,
your sister, a friend, because we will be telling, we
will be affirming our folks in our life, like you
(35:06):
got this, You can do this. Yes, trauma has affected
your belief system, but you can rewire it.
Speaker 3 (35:14):
That's the beautiful thing about God, how he designed our
brain right neuroplasticity where we have the reality to rewire.
And so yes, some things were wired at child, you know,
in my childhood, but through therapy and healing that rewire
it through healthy Yeah, through healthy through therapy, through healthy connections,
(35:34):
and activities, rewire that I am worthy, I am the beautiful.
I deserved that.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
She dropped a big word, by the way, neural plasticity.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
I wasn't even gonna go to. But I said, wait
a minute, now, she said it.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
Neuroplasticity the process or the effect of rewiring.
Speaker 3 (35:54):
Right, and so healthy neurons. So you have neurons in
your brain, and so when the trauma impact your brain development,
your brain chemistry, right, and so it can chance. Why
the earlier, the earlier you can address the trauma, the
better it is because it has a chance to rewire
and to healthy attachments and healthy neurons, right, And so
(36:15):
it's the retachment. It's the rewirement of negative, unhealthy neurons
to healthy neurons, right. And so with that belief system
is like, okay, yes I saw this, but through therapy,
through connections, through healing, I rewired my brain.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
So, just like we talk about other organs in our bodies,
the heart, the liver, the pancreas, the brain is an
organ that can be treated and fixed and heal.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
The brain is let's say the brain is an organ.
The brain is an organ, and sometimes that brain needs
medication along with therapy to heal PTSD. I discussed that
in the book as well many survivors that I knows
with PTSD.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
We have to champion your new book. This is not
light work as in the weight of it. This is
light work. You are doing hard things. You are letting
your light shine, processing and talking about your own grief,
your healing process. And I'm really thankful for your time.
(37:26):
What is one thing that you want us to know
about your book, Healing and Thriving after Domestic Violence?
Speaker 3 (37:35):
Gosh? What do I say to that? It's a catalyst
for change, for.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
A catalyst for change, hope and restoration because all all
of those things can happen and take place. To everybody listening,
I hope you give yourself time and grace to know
that change, hope, and restoration can and will take place.
Know that we love you, We are here for you,
Doctor Shaneda Brown. How can we find you?
Speaker 3 (38:17):
Buy me on all social media platforms under adopted she
Needa Brown on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram. I am there available
to chat to get them the podcast to help survivors.
You are not alone. You are not alone. If you're
feeling that you want to talk to someone of their
trained advocates out here. Contact the National Domestic Violence Hotline.
(38:38):
Can I share that number?
Speaker 2 (38:40):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (38:40):
Please, it's one eight hundred seven nine to nine. Safe
like the word safe. Are you safe as in Sam Apple,
Frank and elephant in the world to help you get
out and get free. Liberation is your birthright. So waiting
on you. We got to take the step.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
A minute, liberal, y'all, I'm taking notes. Liberation is your
birthright too.
Speaker 3 (39:09):
Come on, release the chains. We got to release the chains.
It's time to get freet.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
Yes, come on. We love you, doctor Brown. Thank you,
You're welcome anytime.
Speaker 3 (39:19):
Thank you so much, you'd be saying, love you.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
All, thank you, love you.
Speaker 3 (39:23):
Bye.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
To all of my listeners here at checking A, thank
you so much for allowing me to have possibly difficult conversations.
But I want you to know that there is always
light at the end of the tunnel.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
After a storm, the sun does shine again. And just
know that if you or anyone that you love is
going through.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
Domestic violence, please please please reach out to someone DM
Doctor Shanita Brown, and she will safely give you the
resources that you need. We also discussed the domestic Violence
hotline again. It is one eight hundred seven nine Safe
(40:20):
letter s as in sam A as an apple, f
as in Frank E as an Edward.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
You are awesome.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
You do not have to tolerate abuse of any kind.
Let nobody put their hands on you unless they're about
to give you a hug.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
Tap you on your shoulder, Let you know your love.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
You know some of y'all might want a little tap
on your and your little boot tag. I don't know
whatever floats your moat, but if it's a touch that hurts,
a touch that demeans, a touch that does not make
you feel safe.
Speaker 5 (41:01):
If it's an unwanted touch, no, ma'am, no sir, all right,
Mother Williams has spoken.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
I love you so much, thanks again for checking in.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
Checking In with Michelle Williams is a production of iHeartRadio
and The Black Effect. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
Welcome to Checking In with Michelle Williams, a production of
iHeartRadio and The Black Effect. Today's episode is going to
be really special, but at the same time possibly triggering
to some and I want to acknowledge that I always
(00:23):
want to keep a safe space while discussing sensitive topics.
My guest today is none other than doctor Shanita Brown.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
I just love all that she's doing.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
She is doing heavy work while carrying heaviness through what
she has endured as well, and we're going to talk
more about it on this episode of Checking In. Hello,
and welcome to another week of Checking In. How y'all
(00:59):
been doing. Y'all been behaving this summer? Have you been
outside showing out well? On this week's episode. I am
excited to have someone absolutely phenomenal, truly special in the
field of mental health. I am excited to welcome back
(01:19):
to Checking In doctor Shanita Brown, who is a licensed
trauma therapist. Her work you've seen her here on Checking In,
You've seen her in Essence Therapy for Black Girls Parents,
just so many amazing outlets for us. She just released
(01:40):
a book called Healing and Thriving After Domestic Violence, A
Practical Guide for Black women. It is out just now.
I'm excited to welcome doctor Shanita Brown.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Thank you, thank you, thanking, Hello everyone, I'm so excited
to return. Thank you for the hochey.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Yes, this book, and I also want to offer a
slight warning for people that are listening. You might be
your survivor, you might know, you might have been a
caretaker or a loved one you know has gone through
walked through healing through domestic violence.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
We just want you to know that this is a
safe space.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Doctor Brown, Will you tell us how this book was launched?
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Wow, birth, thank you for honoring survivors and uplifting survivors
maybe in this space. And I want you all to
know that I am with you. This book started five
years ago. I was living in Virginia and en Richmond
at the time, and at the time I wanted to
offer a resource for survivors in general. I was just
(02:53):
thinking about all survivors and you know, kind of share
what that has been like from a therapist point of
view and work with survivors. And the more I decided
to write, the more I decided, you know, that I
wanted to do this work. I began to find my
voice and I began to reclaim my power and say,
wait a minute, China, Wait a minute, Nina, you know
(03:13):
you can't do this without talking about what you have experienced.
And so it began to shift from me that doing
this book, I needed to share my story, my research
for specifically for black women survivors, because we do not
have enough resources our experiences. I often overlook we have
(03:34):
been silent for so long, you know, thinking that you know,
we're too strong to experience to be a survivor, and
too resilient, you know, to to overcome. And so I
wanted to make sure that our voices are heard. Uh,
there's a space for us, that we are firmed, that
we are validated. And life is possible after abuse. You
(03:56):
can't thrive after abuse.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Wow, life is possible after abuse and you can thrive
after abuse? Abuse really messes with your soul and your mind.
For you to say life is possible. How did you
know that life was possible.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Through through my relationship with Christ? In therapy? There's that
word clap cloud or listen.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Wait wait, wait, wait wait, you are a therapist. You
have the word doctor. You went to school for this.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
You mean to.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Tell me the doctor sees a doctor or a therapy.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
Yes, because for one, I'm human. You know, I have
many identities, and I want listeners to understand that, yes, therapists,
we consult with each other, but when we're dealing with
life's challenges and tribulations and life is life, and it's
okay to see a therapist, right, And that helps me
to unpack and also to be better seen and also
(05:07):
to hold space for my clients. So I got to
deal with my stuff. So there is an ethical side
to this as far as my credential and making sure
that I deal with my own matters, but also I
have stuff like everyone else, and I felt the need that. Okay, Lord,
I said, send me a trauma therapist. I specifically prayed
when I was in Richmond for trauma therapists and I
(05:28):
waited for months and it was life changing for me
and I discussed it in the book. She was a Christian.
We prayed before our sessions, after sessions, and it was beautiful.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Yeah, I'm excited that we can also find therapist specific
to our faith, our cultural needs. I love psychologytoday dot com.
There's filters where you could be like, I hope they.
Speaker 4 (05:54):
Love pets, right, Like, maybe not specifically like pets, but
you somebody who who do you want them to acknowledge
your faith, your culture, because I've talked with people that say, hey,
I don't know, I need someone who can understand and.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Advocate for me just being black. That's right there, we
need therapy for that.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
That's telling, right. I mean, you know, being black, a
black woman, it's hard in America. And so you're right.
I wanted a black therapist, and I discussed in my
book that we have to be open that in a
mental health profession we don't have a lot of black
therapists and being open to someone who does not look
(06:39):
like you, right. And my trauma therapist, my very first
trauma therapist, was not black. So I empower readers to
be open a trauma therapist. I didn't know she was
going to be a Christian therapist. I didn't know she
was going to open up with prayer, but she did ask.
And I have claus to say, well, that's a brown
I want to I want to a black therapist, but
(07:02):
not too churchy, you know, like if I want to yeah,
so not too churchy. If I want to say I'm
mad at God, I want to have the space and
freedom to do so without feeling judge. And I was like,
of course you can say you're mad at God about
something that happened, right.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
Speaking of that having balance, someone could be on and
listening right now, why did this happen to me or
why did this happen to my mother or my sister?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
God, why did you allow that to happen?
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Right? And that's a that's a very great question, and
I hear that a lot. And as a therapist, it's
important that we ask individuals about the role of faith
in their lives and their beliefs and what do they
believe about God. Like we sometimes we have to unpack
what we were taught. A lot of times we were
taught things that just simply aren't true, but it shapes
(07:54):
who we are and how we see things. So, Yes,
Survivs in my book, and Sid I work with, said,
you know, I'm mad at God because he is punishing
me because I am not obeying my husband and so
this is his way of punishing me. And I said, so,
there's nothing about abuse that aligns with God. Right. That's again,
(08:19):
abuse aligns with God. And we begin to shift and
really break down what you were taught or what do
you believe about God? They begin to understand. Okay, so
let me go to some scriptures for empowerment.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
Nothing about abuse aligns with God. That but I'm sure
it probably takes a couple sessions, because you can hear it.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
You might even I believe that the sun is gonna rise.
I believe God.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Do I accept when you said nothing about abuse aligns
with God? We have to accept that. Whether it's a
form of physical abuse, verbal abuse, sexual abuse, it does
not align.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
It does it? Because even spiritu abuse, Michelle, because spiritual
abuse of abuse his power and control right when one
person tries to maintain power and control over another individual
in a relationship, and they do that in a variety
of ways. And so I have it in my book,
chapter four call It's titled We've Come This Far by
(09:29):
Faith that is dedicated to identify and help saviv as
Black women who hold a strong identity regarding their spirituality
and the role of faith and how that can be
a source of strength and empowerment but also as a
tool for control. Sh So what that looks like is
(09:55):
abusers are saying you can't go to Bible study tonight,
or if you don't practice their same faith or if
I identify as you know, I had someone who said
that no, I was a Muslim or a Jew. Yeah,
(10:15):
and I married someone who was a Christian and we
clashed a lot. So I became isolated and wasn't able
to connect with my faith community.
Speaker 5 (10:24):
Mm hmmm.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
So a sign of abuse, which can turn of course physically,
is isolation. You begin to and it can start as
something where doctor Brown, there are certain little things that
we might think have we're cute, he was, you know,
he wants.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Me to hisself.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
She wants me to herself.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Now, by the way, there are times where in relationships
you it does call for I just want some me time.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
I just want some I just want some us time.
But out the that's better than a pattern.
Speaker 3 (11:05):
That's the key word, Michelle Bingo, the target, a pattern
of controlling behavior. There is a difference from someone saying,
let's can you pass and I want to spend some
time together. I want some meantime. But when you begin
to notice a pattern of oh, you're not going with
your friends, or I don't want you to go, or
you're isolating yourself or from your family, next thing, you know,
(11:27):
that becomes a pattern. Yeah, that's a red flag. It's
a pattern of controlling behavior. Yes, ma'am, that's pattern. And
it's okay to have me time, but at some point
I should be able to say, hey, baby, you know,
I'm going out with my lot sisters or I'm hanging
out with my family, I'm having a bunch that I'm
going to budge, and they should be okay with that,
(11:50):
not trying to get you. Oh, you don't never do
anything with me, or you're not doing that, or when
you go out with your friends. Then they then they
tend to blow up your phone, not back yet, send
me a picture of what y'are doing, trying to determine
if you were really there. If that's the part that
people do not understand. Okay, well, yeah, we have separate lives.
But then it constantly texts you what you're doing, send
(12:12):
me a picture? Are you really there? I don't believe
y'all when you get to the point of going to
blunt with your girlfriends. Okay, okay, I'm okay with it.
I'll let you go. Let right, I'll let you go,
and then when you get there, send me a picture
what y'all doing. You can't even enjoy be present with
your friends from constantly on your cell phone and looking.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
At Yeah, so we can know the difference where Udi
feels cute, he just being protective. No, this is starting
to turn into control. So we just have to pay
attention to the patterns. And everything ain't cute.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
Everything isn't cute. And so then when you get home
it becomes to an argument. You stay too long, that's
what it looks like. Okay, so we're talking about going out.
I just want to break this down. So if you're
ever feeling afraid in a relationship, that's a red flag
that is abusive. Right, because a lot of people and
(13:10):
not break this down the book, like, so what is healthy,
what is unhealthy? And then what is abusive? If you
are feeling afraid to do something in a relationship that
isn't indicated that it is abusive. No one should be
afraid in a a romantic relationship should never be afraid. Okay,
so if you're calling each other names back and forth, right,
(13:32):
that that would be unhealthy, a little toxic. But when
when you are afraid, that's an indicator honey, hunh that's abusive.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
When you were saying real bigger back and forth. You know,
even you think that's normal because maybe we saw that
growing up, doctor Brown. I was in a session once
and the therapists actually had.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
To tell me, baby, that's dysfunction.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
Mh.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Just because you saw growing up and.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Maybe they even stayed together for years later, that was dysfunction.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
How can we I guess it just takes courage.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
It takes courage, and it takes and I discussed that
I witnessed abuse and in peace and chaos, but I
also noticed that my father changed, right, So it became
very the first image of a relationship starts at home.
That that is your template, that's the blueprint. So it
takes courage to say and step out and say, well,
(14:52):
just because I witnesses doesn't mean I want to continue
in this the cycle of abuse.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
The cycle of abuse, because too, the cycle continues because there's.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
No outlet for them to share. Don't talk about don't talk.
Speaker 3 (15:06):
About this, you just see it and you keep going.
And so witness and abuse, you're more you're more at
risk to get into that type of relationship if you
witnessed it, right, and so one of those things, I mean,
that's what that was a hard thing for me to
decide to do. I want to put that in my book,
and I did because I did witness abuse and I
(15:29):
did see that my father change. So that became very
confusing for me, which led me to stay in a relationship.
Was like, Okay, well hmm, that change, so why can't
he change? So I'm gonna just stay in this little
bit longer. That's what I saw.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
It's almost more so what you saw than what you
were told.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
That affects the psychological right, you know, And so we
we it's like, well, this is all I know, but
we got to get to a place where it might.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Be all you know.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
But it don't feel good and do we have to
tolerate that and we.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
Have to talk about it. Parents have to talk about
it with their kids, especially in black families, to say
this was wrong and use developmentally a developmental appropriate words
with your children. And so many survivors that I've worked with, like,
you know, I don't want to say anything to my kids.
I'm like, you can't see it, five six, seven years old?
They see it. You know why they acted out at school.
(16:30):
It's a number of reasons, but they become you know,
you can become you can be also at more risk
for repeating that same behavior. Be an abuser. Yes, how
I manage conflict, that's what I know. To put my
hands on somebody's.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
Throat, y'all, we can't do that. You can't accept that.
That's not normal. Like like I know people have they fatishit.
But two that's another's.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
That's something different.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
That's something different.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
But in a conversation and they just like put their
hands on you, y'all, that is not okay. And I'm
sorry that if anyone is listening that you thought it
was okay. Let this be a signed to you. Two
black women on here who love you, yes, to know
(17:27):
that's not okay. And if you find yourself in that situation,
I know it's easier said than I've heard this a lot.
Something happened to someone and I was like, well, why
didn't you just leave? And I meant, well when I
said it, especially when it's repeated.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
Yeah, it's that psycho abuse, you know, it's it's the
impact of trauma bonding and and savivrs say for so
many reasons, and Saviva's if you are listening and you
are in a relationship and this is hitting home for you,
we are not bashing you that you are in it.
I want you to know that it is very dangerous
(18:07):
to leave an abusive relationship and to consider working with
an advocate or DV advocate to plan your exit. It's
called safety planet. And because of a number of reasons,
you may have children together, or financial like there are
literally people who rely on their partners for everything, right
financial views, I don't know anything about my account or
(18:30):
who pays what because he's doing or they're doing everything,
she's doing everything right, and so on. Financial reasons, trauma, bonding,
or you love them right, this is what you think
love is. There's so many reasons. But you can't just
leave like that. I mean, it's not that simple. And
the research says it takes approximately seven attempts to successfully leave.
(18:53):
That means seven tries and then like, okay, I'm following
your leave. Yeah I go back, or I want to
give him another chance, or I have survivors and clients
that I've worked with and say, you know, doctor Brown,
I wanted to give this one more try. And I'm saying, Okay,
if that's what you wanted to do, I'm going to
support you. Not to empower clients to make the decisions
(19:14):
for themselves. Yeah, it's my job to educate them. The
book is a companion and a guy and a supplement
to therapy.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
You got to get the therapy. Well it is, you
do say it is a practical guy.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
It is a practical guy for black women understand the
role of our intersecting identities and how we show up
systemic challenges. And that's why this book is so important
because black women we don't have enough resources. Our voices
are often overlooked when you have an intersection of sexism
and racism and oppression and how we are treated. Okay,
(19:50):
so now we're talking about domestic violence in the mainstream, right,
it's domestic violence or domestic abuse. But are you talking
about why black women are experiencing domestic violence more than
any ethnicity. I don't see that on the headlights.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
That's news to me.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
Black women are experiencing rates higher of domestic violence than
any other race.
Speaker 3 (20:13):
Compared to thirty four percent to our white kincross white women. Yeah, yeah,
maybe nine second to someone is assaulted.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
So we've got some work.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
You've got work to do.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
We've got some work to do.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Your book, Healing and Thriving after Domestic Violence a practical
Guide for Black women is getting rave reviews, but it's
also getting support and reviews from survivors themselves.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
It is survivor approved.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Now, you wrote this for survivors in mind, but you
actually had survivors contribute to What was that like?
Speaker 3 (20:58):
It was? It was beautif it was beautiful. I had
no idea how I wanted to incorporate survivors stories on thriving.
I hadn't thought about that. But the more I begin
to heal, and the more I began to recognize what
thriving looked like for me, I said, let me incorporate
(21:20):
people who wanted to share and uplift others on this journey.
There's life. You can't do this, you can do it,
you can make it. Yeah, this is what thrhyment looks like.
It's like navigating triggers. There's a chapter dedicated to understanding
domestic violence trauma because I didn't understand five years ago
(21:41):
how that trauma was showing up for me, and I
experienced the abuse and during my undergrad years in my
early twenties, I had no idea of how that's deal
with impact my belief system. I am not good enough,
I'm not worthy so we don't talk about how that
trauma impacts our belief system. I'm not learning it was
(22:06):
my fault. I am not good enough, and how that
settles into how bring it in our body our belief
system it sits in our body. I didn't understand the
importance of movement til I begin to do my own
work and moving that out my body and doing trauma
(22:27):
work to reprocess memories that were stored. And so I
do talk about that and incorporating survivors and for other
suvivas to hear that they're going to therapy or they're
now examining and looking for green flags more so than
red flags. Sometimes we're going into I'm looking for the
red flags, But how about looking for the green flags?
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Yes, look for the green flags. I love that.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Healing after trauma is definitely possible, but it does take consistency.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
Me get award when it's.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
Oh, that was my hardest chapter.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Come on, talk about it, doctor Brown.
Speaker 3 (23:16):
That was my hardest chapter. Consistency and I had to
take breaks and a couple of therapists, but they were said, girl,
just have a shot out to Quaila and keep writing
what was happening. I was having flashbacks and I didn't
yet have the two to navigate all of the flooding
(23:40):
and the images and know that at times I had disassociated,
I had disconnected for myself. Oh so I did a
lot of writing at the beach, specifically on the chapter
Understanding Domes of Valence Trauma. I love the beach and
(24:01):
being close to the water. I feel very close to
God and connected. And I remember praying and said, God,
help heal this part of me that I have never
shared with anyone. There were just tears. I mean, it's
almost like a puzzle when we disassociate, right, It's a
jigsaw puzzle. You think of a movie, and think of
(24:22):
a Marvel movie right in the beginning, and things flash
in the beginning of the movie, various images a movie,
like a Marvel movie, and it's like a jigsaw puzzle,
and you're trying to look and then that's how it is,
spotty in your brain. I have an image here, I
have an image there. I have a pain here. I
have not in my stomach. That trauma that we experienced
(24:43):
from domestic violence can shatter your self work. I mean
that's the goal of the bezer to beat you down,
that you that you just think you're nothing. Not psychological abuse.
It's much more damage damaging than physical abuse. I mean
you could so we can't see the invisible wounds, right,
We can't see the invisible.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
Wounds, which sometimes can be almost more destructive or equal
to the wounds that you can see.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
Right, Okay, if I get you know, I get some stitches,
and I have a scar, and a mind scar.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Gets me Neilsporn, it'll help, you know, it'll even help
lessen the appearance of the scar or the one, if
you're doing it consistent, right.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
The consistent part of therapy, Michelle was that, and sometimes
we have to take breaks, right, So I do encourage
my clients. Sometimes it can be a lot to bring
up a lot of memories and trying to reprocess trauma.
But get with someone who knows what they're doing right,
and but be consistent with that. If you take a break,
I'm gonna take a break. But I have tools to
help me in between that part, not just take a
(25:49):
break and not going back. I don't have any tools
like how you helping yourself move forward? We want to
get to thriving. So you take a break, but I
have some tools. I'm gonna journal I'm gonna exercise, I'm
gonna pray, I'm gonna meditate, I'm gonna get So.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
All of that is even therapy just sitting down with
a therapist, which is great for me because you know me,
doctor Brown, I'll be why you ain't, Why you ain't
doing it what.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
You're supposed to be. Did you do your culture like some.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
I can understand why, Like I can't.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Work out every day.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
I need a break even so the work that I
did do give it time and process.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
To let the work, let the work work right.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
You know why that's important because therapy isn't meant to
be forever. Yes, you have to practice, use your tools.
The same way if you go to physical therapy for
your shoulder, if you aren't practicing your rehab exercises, the
author bey the surge, be like, so what are you
doing in physical therapy? I gave you a prescription for therapy.
(26:57):
The physical therapist say, you're not getting better? Are you practices? So?
Are you journaling? Are you taking deep reps? Are you
using your container? Are you exercising, are you getting are
you getting rests? Are you taking your medication?
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Yeah, that part when we got a lot to unpack
because I also heard you say that even after you
are out of the out of the abusive relationship, that
abusive environment, it's the long term effects of the trauma
that you still have to heal from. So I want
people to know, like, even today, ten years later, you
(27:35):
still might, like you said, you get a nod in
your stomach every now and then, but give yourself grace
and don't feel like I might as well just go
back if I'm a feeling the same way.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Yeah, because we're always be triggered to a certain degree
because we are alive. We have an active nervous system, right,
So it's important to understand that, you know, I'm ten
years out understanding how that trauma is showing up for
me and my relationships. For example, I describe and discuss
that I would be I would be very reactive when
(28:12):
I was disrespected and I didn't understand why it just
I didn't even understand what was happening to me. And
I said, you know, I need to figure this out,
because you can be reactive at work, you could be
in a business in a business meeting, and you can
be with family members and people are looking like, so,
how do we get there? Like someone is just disagreeing
(28:34):
with you. You found it disrespectful and you just fas
out on them. Wow, we're not rying. We need to
have more discussion about Okay, how is that trauma showing
up for me? In my current relationships, family, friends, work,
faith communities. I take things from so personal all the time.
(28:57):
And my pastor saying, you need to hold off on
this program right now. Oh, he don't like me, she
don't like me. They y'all have to get me. I
can't never get anything accomplished. Like the pastor said, hold
off right now, maybe in the next quarter. How do
we get that the pastor doesn't like you because your
proposal for a program was not approved. But we have
(29:18):
to ask ourselves for hard questions. Why am I showing up?
Why am I acting like this? Why am I jumping
to this conclusion? What's really going on? So I had
that conversation. I was like, Nita, you gotta take a
look at this Liz moment.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
Literally just yesterday, I jumped to the worst conclusion about
the situation. I was expecting the package, and the worst conclusion.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
I jumped to is because you have stolen.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
It.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Found out they didn't put the person.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
The shipper didn't put the unit number on, and I
was like, I have to like ask God for forgiveness.
I had to ask the person that I was like,
how can I make this up to you?
Speaker 2 (30:01):
I am so sorry?
Speaker 1 (30:03):
And I was like, we be reactive or so I
had to look at me. Okay, you still got some
trust issues, right, but I've been through enough therapy to
even be self aware to.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Do that little process.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Now I look back and like, you know, you could
have done differently.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
You could have even thought it right.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
But even some stuff don't even have to come out
of your mouth until you even process.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Why was this even a thought?
Speaker 3 (30:35):
Let's get there exactly?
Speaker 1 (30:37):
Why was it even a thought? I'm looking at a
post right now? And you said if healing.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
After trauma was a picture.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
Healing can look like crying even after months of progress,
and then numb the next That means you're learning how
to feel safely again. Healing can look like crying after
months of progress. Tears don't erase growth, they honor it.
Healing can look like laughing during the day and grieving
(31:14):
at night. You said, joy and pain can coexist. Both
are signs of you're human. You said, healing won't always
make sense, but it will make change. Healing won't always
make sense, but it will make change.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
So as I'm going through.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
Your carousel, I'm seeing the picture of what healing looks like.
When my dad passed, I wanted my mom to know, like,
you know, if something is funny, you could laugh, or
you know, it's okay to cry. Healing after trauma, healing
after loss. Like you said, it's all those things. It
(31:55):
is the ups and downs and that if you were abused,
I love that we can heal from it and we
can laugh about it, even in reflection, even crime. What
about the person that's still carrying shame because they said
(32:16):
I knew better?
Speaker 3 (32:17):
Wow, that you know, there's that shame is in a
whole other level. Right. You have guilt. We carry so
much guilt. And one of the things I help clients
with understanding about guilt and shame. It's like Gil implies,
you did something wrong, So you have to ask yourself,
what did I do wrong. I can't do anything about
what I didn't know then, but I can do something
(32:39):
about what I know now. Right, because we were always
told that, well, if you wouldn't have done this, I
wouldn't have threw a glass at you, or I wouldn't
have slapped you. But that shame is internal and it
really attacks that belief system, and that takes some work
with a therapist to really help you release the shame
(33:01):
to a deeper level. I feel shame for what I'm doing,
like I didn't cause this, This was my fault. We
believed that for so long when we stay solid, and
that's why many of us don't come forward. I'm a
black woman. Do you know what that means? I'm strong, resilient.
(33:22):
How dare I share my story on social media?
Speaker 1 (33:28):
I think we've answered the question that I was going
to ask, why do we stay silent as black women?
Speaker 3 (33:33):
Shame?
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Because it's shame.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Or the mask of people thought I had it all together,
but I was being abused.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
Some people perceived me. Yeah, and letting go of shame
was so liberating for me. That is a process understanding
how the trauma attack my belief system or Carrie for
so long, I am not worthy, I am not good enough.
(34:04):
It was my fault. I cared that for years. But
doing the work to unpack that and understand how it
changed my belief system, I begin to develop new healthy beliefs,
I am worthy of relationship free of violence.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
It's almost like when we talk about the shame, how
we would talk to one of our best friends is
how we need to talk to us, because if it
was to our one of our close friends or somebody
at church that we just love, we would be.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Saying, it's not your fault.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
You are so amazing, you're strong, you are beautiful, you
are gifted.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
You gotta let that shame go.
Speaker 1 (34:43):
Now, we also know it's more than an affirmation of
what somebody speaks into you or what you speaking to yourself,
because it does require but it's almost like do the
self talk to yourself how you would talk to your daughter,
your sister, a friend, because we will be telling, we
will be affirming our folks in our life, like you
(35:06):
got this, You can do this. Yes, trauma has affected
your belief system, but you can rewire it.
Speaker 3 (35:14):
That's the beautiful thing about God, how he designed our
brain right neuroplasticity where we have the reality to rewire.
And so yes, some things were wired at child, you know,
in my childhood, but through therapy and healing that rewire
it through healthy Yeah, through healthy through therapy, through healthy connections,
(35:34):
and activities, rewire that I am worthy, I am the beautiful.
I deserved that.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
She dropped a big word, by the way, neural plasticity.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
I wasn't even gonna go to. But I said, wait
a minute, now, she said it.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
Neuroplasticity the process or the effect of rewiring.
Speaker 3 (35:54):
Right, and so healthy neurons. So you have neurons in
your brain, and so when the trauma impact your brain development,
your brain chemistry, right, and so it can chance. Why
the earlier, the earlier you can address the trauma, the
better it is because it has a chance to rewire
and to healthy attachments and healthy neurons, right, And so
(36:15):
it's the retachment. It's the rewirement of negative, unhealthy neurons
to healthy neurons, right. And so with that belief system
is like, okay, yes I saw this, but through therapy,
through connections, through healing, I rewired my brain.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
So, just like we talk about other organs in our bodies,
the heart, the liver, the pancreas, the brain is an
organ that can be treated and fixed and heal.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
The brain is let's say the brain is an organ.
The brain is an organ, and sometimes that brain needs
medication along with therapy to heal PTSD. I discussed that
in the book as well many survivors that I knows
with PTSD.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
We have to champion your new book. This is not
light work as in the weight of it. This is
light work. You are doing hard things. You are letting
your light shine, processing and talking about your own grief,
your healing process. And I'm really thankful for your time.
(37:26):
What is one thing that you want us to know
about your book, Healing and Thriving after Domestic Violence?
Speaker 3 (37:35):
Gosh? What do I say to that? It's a catalyst
for change, for.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
A catalyst for change, hope and restoration because all all
of those things can happen and take place. To everybody listening,
I hope you give yourself time and grace to know
that change, hope, and restoration can and will take place.
Know that we love you, We are here for you,
Doctor Shaneda Brown. How can we find you?
Speaker 3 (38:17):
Buy me on all social media platforms under adopted she
Needa Brown on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram. I am there available
to chat to get them the podcast to help survivors.
You are not alone. You are not alone. If you're
feeling that you want to talk to someone of their
trained advocates out here. Contact the National Domestic Violence Hotline.
(38:38):
Can I share that number?
Speaker 2 (38:40):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (38:40):
Please, it's one eight hundred seven nine to nine. Safe
like the word safe. Are you safe as in Sam Apple,
Frank and elephant in the world to help you get
out and get free. Liberation is your birthright. So waiting
on you. We got to take the step.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
A minute, liberal, y'all, I'm taking notes. Liberation is your
birthright too.
Speaker 3 (39:09):
Come on, release the chains. We got to release the chains.
It's time to get freet.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
Yes, come on. We love you, doctor Brown. Thank you,
You're welcome anytime.
Speaker 3 (39:19):
Thank you so much, you'd be saying, love you.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
All, thank you, love you.
Speaker 3 (39:23):
Bye.
Speaker 1 (39:26):
To all of my listeners here at checking A, thank
you so much for allowing me to have possibly difficult conversations.
But I want you to know that there is always
light at the end of the tunnel.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
After a storm, the sun does shine again. And just
know that if you or anyone that you love is
going through.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
Domestic violence, please please please reach out to someone DM
Doctor Shanita Brown, and she will safely give you the
resources that you need. We also discussed the domestic Violence
hotline again. It is one eight hundred seven nine Safe
(40:20):
letter s as in sam A as an apple, f
as in Frank E as an Edward.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
You are awesome.
Speaker 1 (40:27):
You do not have to tolerate abuse of any kind.
Let nobody put their hands on you unless they're about
to give you a hug.
Speaker 2 (40:41):
Tap you on your shoulder, Let you know your love.
Speaker 1 (40:45):
You know some of y'all might want a little tap
on your and your little boot tag. I don't know
whatever floats your moat, but if it's a touch that hurts,
a touch that demeans, a touch that does not make
you feel safe.
Speaker 5 (41:01):
If it's an unwanted touch, no, ma'am, no sir, all right,
Mother Williams has spoken.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
I love you so much, thanks again for checking in.
Speaker 1 (41:49):
Checking In with Michelle Williams is a production of iHeartRadio
and The Black Effect. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
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