November 29, 2022 • 40 mins
Michelle and Roman are healing the mind! Roman Zanoni explains the difference between the mind and the brain. He also talks about addressing mental illness at its core, the impact two failed relationships had on his quest to understand mental health and tools to combat traumatic responses. CHECK IN to this episode to understand healing on a new level!
For access to Roman’s courses, visit: https://www.mindfreed.org/resources
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Twitter: @ZanoniRoman
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Checking In with Michelle Williams, a production of
My Heart Radio and The Black Effect. We have all
suffered from trauma or encountered people that we love who
(00:23):
have suffered from it as well, but can't we ever recover? Well?
My guest today says yes, and that we can do
the healing for ourselves. He's coming up next here on
Checking In. Hey, y'all, I'm so so so thrilled that
(00:44):
y'all are back for another episode of Checking In. Today's
guest is an American artist. Yes, they've got music, y'all.
At first, when I saw artists, I was like, oh,
that's nice. They draw they do stencils, because it kind
of would make sense because of the healing work that
(01:05):
they do in the philanthropy that he does. He is
also a trauma recovery specialist and guess what, y'all, he
lives in the home area of Chicago. Please welcome to
Checking In, Romans and One. Thank you so much for that,
appreciate what you're doing. Thanks for having me. Absolutely, it
(01:26):
is so good to speak with you during this time
and during this season where I feel like a lot
of people it's the holidays, people are grieving the loss
of loved ones or their way of life. People are
still recovering from the pandemic and how it has changed
and shifted things. So I'm so glad that you are
(01:49):
here to walk us through some things. Thank you. I'm
happy to be You have an interesting occupation. You are
a trauma recovery specialist. You help people heal their brain
and body from the effects of complex trauma using your
own mind. You mean to tell me that we have
(02:10):
the power within ourselves. We do. We have the power
to heal ourselves using our own mind. So when you
experience a trauma, your brain is traumatized, but your mind
is not the same as your brain, So you can
use your mind to heal your brain. And the way
I like to differentiate that is the mind is the
(02:31):
operating system of the brain, and the brain is your supercomputer.
And the reason why the methods that we're using are
so effective but not really well known is because most
scientists and doctors don't want to touch the mind because
they know nothing about the mind. Because there's a spiritual
(02:52):
component to this faculty of the mind. If you were
to google it, you'll just come up with an answer
like it is the phenomena of mental faculty, and it's like,
what does that even mean? It means we have no
idea what it is. So what I specialized in is
helping people to understand what the mind is how to
(03:14):
use it, because it is a most precious gift and
it is powerful and we can use it to heal
our anxiety, our depression, our low self worth, our low
self esteem, loneliness, anger. And so when working with trauma survivors,
I'm helping them to overcome the effects of their trauma,
(03:38):
and that has long reaching effects because trauma is the
root of so much mental illness. Most intact, I say
this on every episode where we talk about trauma, just
in case there are some new listeners. Trauma just isn't
bodily harm as far as you punch me in the head,
(04:02):
or your car rams into the wall or you crash,
that is a form of trauma, as far as blunt
force trauma. Right, But trauma is also getting news that
your boyfriend cheated on you, verbal abuse, you're so shocked
that a person said this thing. Can you help people
not just see trauma as blood and guts, although it is, Yeah,
(04:25):
what I'm dealing with is psychological trauma, when a person
is assaulted, when a person goes through, like you said,
getting bad news on the telephone, or losing a loved one,
And that's wide ranging. But again, trauma is one of
those things no one really knows what exactly it is. Like,
we all talk about it, we know, but how to
(04:47):
really pin it down and define it is very difficult.
So I would define it as this trauma is anything
that is distressing and causes an undesirable chain in the person.
It's anything that is both distressing and causes an undesirable
(05:07):
change in the person. And that's the problem with our trauma.
When we go through an assault or an abuse or
neglect and we're feeling this pain inside and we we
actually change as a result of what has happened to us,
but we don't like the way we've changed. We've become untrusting,
we feel anxious, we become sad, and how do we
(05:28):
overcome that change? How do we change back so to
speak to who we used to be, or more so,
to progress to who we really can be when we're
feeling stuck in the trauma. And that's what I specialized in,
and the effects of utilizing your mind to heal yourself
is that you can break out of the trappedness of
(05:50):
trauma within weeks, within months of work, not years, not
a lifetime. In one session, we can heal a person's anxiety,
even if they've been dealing with anxiety their whole lives
because of the way we're doing, we're getting directly to
the route. In one session, we can obliterate a person's oppression,
(06:13):
even when they've been going through through depression their entire life.
Why because we're getting to the root of the actual issue,
which is trauma. I've heard some people say, I don't
ever think I'll be able to get rid of my depression.
I've had it for years. I'm speaking with someone because
I asked her. I said, well, do you know what
the root is? She said, there isn't a root. Everyone
(06:35):
in my family has depression. M hmm. Yeah, you'll hear
that a lot. But that is a misconception. Depression does
not get handed down in your genes from one person
to the next person. You can have a predisposition for it,
no doubt, but that same person who feels like they've
inherited this could have one session with me or a
(06:56):
therapist who's trained by me and field or depression lift
in thirty to forty five minutes of just having a conversation.
And how is that. It's because we understand what's actually
causing the depression. At the core. It is not their genes.
At the core, it is not the chemical imbalance as
(07:17):
we're taught. And yes, the feeling and the sensation and
the body is the chemicals. But what is the cause,
what is releasing the toxic amount of cortisol in the system.
The cause at the root is the perception of the mind.
The subconscious mind is perceiving that something is out of
(07:38):
line with your values, and it is communicating to you
through the chemicals. It's letting you know, Roman Michelle, there's
something wrong here. There's something in our in our reality
that we're perceiving is unacceptable, and we feel powerless to
change it. Those two components are what give us the feeling,
(07:59):
the sensation, and of depression when we feel something is
unacceptable and we feel powerless to change it. Once we
will be identify what that is in that moment, at
that time that you're going through that's causing that, and
we simply alter the perception of it. So that you're
you're looking at it from a more healed mindset. Suddenly
(08:22):
your subconscious releases a balanced chemical cocktail instead of that
extreme chemical cocktail, and you emotionally feel more balanced, more stable.
How did you get into this? Was it your own
history or I do consider myself to be a trauma survivor.
(08:44):
But it was after getting out of my marriage of
fifteen years to a narcissist. And it is very difficult
for for men to identify that they are married to
a narcissist because there's lack of support and understanding of
what narcissism looks like in a female. As I got
(09:06):
out of that, I had already been coaching counseling for
twenty years, and I said, I do not want to
become a narcissism counselor. I don't want to because I'm done.
I did fifteen years with a narcissist. I don't want
to talk about narcissism anymore. But it was the next
woman that I fell in love with. She was the
opposite of a narcissist. She was empathic, but as an
(09:30):
unhealed EmPATH, she's hyper vigilant. She has all types of anxiety,
she's feeling difficulty trusting, she feels a loss of self,
like not really knowing who she is, and I'm seeing
her go through these issues and I'm loving her so much.
And then I watched her sabotage our relationship and her
(09:51):
life so that she lost everything she truly wanted. And
I couldn't understand why would a person sabotage and lose
everything they wanted? Why would someone do this? And that
had me perplex That got me interested in getting into
mental illness very deeply, and that's where I discovered cpt
(10:15):
s D, complex post traumatic stress disorder. It was a
dead ringer for this woman that I loved. And for
those who don't know what c p t s D is,
it's like PTSD but times ten times a hundred because
instead of it being one trauma, you lived or grew
up in the trauma, or you were in sustained trauma
(10:38):
for a number of years, and so now you have
you're manifesting symptoms such as high anxiety, fear of abandonment
that could lead to people pleasing, a loss of self,
not knowing who you are, living in fear and shame
and all of that. So so when I when I
realized what she was suffering from. Now it was too late,
(10:58):
but I wanted to help her. So that's what led
me into well how do I how do I help
support someone with anxiety? And I started developing a system
that would actually help someone overcome anxiety. It turned out
it was so effective that people are are overcoming In
one session, I said, Wow, if this is so good,
(11:19):
can we do this with depression and it works with depression?
Can we do this with low self esteem and it
works with low self esteem? Can we deal with managing anger?
Can we do it with loneliness? And it turns out
that yes, we can actually help a person to heal
from all of the effects of CPTSD, which is complex trauma,
within just a matter of weeks or months. And that
(11:41):
that was like, this is it for me? This is
definitely it. Do they know the line of work that
you're doing right now? Like do the two former women?
If they google me and they'll find out. Okay, now
this is a fun question. I hope it's not probing,
but I don't know if you married and anything that,
But does it affect how you date? Are you assessing
(12:04):
people as you're dating? That's a great question. Actually I'm
not dating right now. I'm just focused on my work
and purpose. Okay, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. I
crack up because those of us who have even just
been in therapy for a number of years, we want
to assess and be the psychologists and psychiatrists and say,
(12:25):
you know what, he didn't get enough love as a child.
He's performance oriented. So absolutely, that's how we do. That
is how we do. What are some of the common
ways that we incorrectly deal with trauma? Oh, there's a lot.
(12:49):
So what happens really commonly as people will distract they
feel the anxiety or they feel the depression, and they're
trying to distract themselves by uh, television, shopping, being around people,
or drugs, alcohol. People are trying to figure out how
to get rid of the pain inside of them, so
(13:10):
they're blasting the music and watching the television. But that's
actually the opposite of what we should be doing. We
should be leaning directly into the sensation to understand what
it is because it is a communication from your subconscious.
So we need to actually address the feelings of anxiety, depression,
(13:31):
and if it's trauma that we're trying to overcome. We
need to be able to not only identify what is
it that caused the trauma, but to address the beliefs
because we may need to change our beliefs from unhealed
beliefs to healed beliefs and the way we're thinking and
our behavior. When you heal your belief system, the way
(13:55):
you're thinking, and your behavior, you will hear mental illness.
Because all mental illness comes down to false beliefs, maladaptive
way of thinking that is unhealthy and unhelpful to the south,
in a maladaptive way of behaving that is unhealthy to
the self or others. And so when you can change
(14:16):
the behavior and the way of thinking and the beliefs
to all be aligned, then you will be in healing
and it will actually pull you out of mental illness.
Even say the person that's dealing with something like schizophrenia,
which is something I haven't delved deep into, like anxiety, depression,
by polar and those are some of the things because
(14:38):
those were I'll be transparent a lot of things that
I was screened for. But schizophrenia, when is that considered
something that a person can be cured of or if
they come work with you, is that something that can
be lessened the symptoms. Yes, people can heal from that
and the symptoms can be less And I don't specialize
in schizophrenia, but still you have false beliefs. A schizophrenic
(15:03):
is at a point where they're believing things that are
not true or are not helpful to the self. If
we can convince that person that those things are untrue,
and we can bring them into believing and seeing the truth,
and then we can help their pattern of thinking to
be a way that is thinking that it's helpful to
them and being aligned with what is true, and then
(15:26):
we can bring their behavior into what is healthy and
helpful to them. Then yes, their symptoms will dissipate and
they will be cure. Okay, you are touching on CPTSD
the signs that a person should be looking for. I'm assuming,
like when you talk about insecurity, but even some of
the physical things shaking, the fidgeting, zoning out, rocking, you know,
(15:51):
I guess to soothe to me, rocking is almost soothing.
I'm assuming that those are some of those signs that
we should be looking out for. And anyone can have
cpt s D that has had trauma correct. Yeah, especially
if you've had it for a sustained period of time,
then then it's going to become complex. Yeah, now how
(16:12):
does that relate to As we were talking about before
we started officially recording, oversharing and over explaining is a
form of cpt s D. It's a trauma response, and
yes it's a symptom of CPTSD. So what what you
have with oversharing and over explaining is when you're in
a situation where you're called upon to offer an explanation,
(16:37):
you find yourself going, going, going, and explaining way too
many details and divulging things about yourself that you're later
going to regret divulging or or with oversharing, you're going
into too much intimate stuff with your life and and
telling people that really aren't worthy of all of that
sharing and explanation. And so what's actually happening for the
(16:59):
person is this is the fawn response. So with trauma
you have fight, flight, freeze, and faun And what funding
is is let me lose so so you can win.
And that's a way that we survive traumatic situations. Like
it's adaptive. If someone is is coming in to rob
me and I say, oh, let me lose so you
(17:21):
can win. Here's my money, here's everything, and this is
how I survived the situation. That's funding. But what happens
is when someone comes from complex trauma, they've learned to
fawn as a way of life. So now they're always
telling people in their lives essentially, let me lose so
that you can win. In every relationship, it's like, how
are you feeling, what are you thinking? What do you need?
(17:44):
And they are ignoring their own needs and they're they're
faunding now to the detriment of their selfs and they're saying, yes,
they're people pleasing, which means they're basically lying to try
to go with the flow, to make sure no one's
upset with them, to make sure everyone's happy, to make
sure they're always appeasing the needs and wants and desires
(18:05):
of everyone else. And they've learned to just ignore or
shut down any knowledge or understanding of how they are
truly feeling. So when you're oversharing, it's a fun response
because you're saying, even if this is to my detriment
to blab all of this information, I'm going to do
it because I'm afraid right now, I'm afraid that you're
going to reject me. I'm afraid that you're going to
(18:26):
judge me. I'm afraid that you're going to think I'm lying.
And it's that fear a lot of times, a fear
of abandonment that causes people to overexplain and overshare. And
I'm wondering, I guess, just from experience, you're hoping that
if there is something in the blabbing that you're saying
that they're going to connect to and you be accepted,
let me just share everything and there's something and there's
(18:51):
gonna be something you say and all of that, they're
gonna be like, Okay, you cool with me? I forgive you. Okay,
oh see, you said exactly what I needed to hear
in order for us to move forward. Wow, there are
moments where I consider myself to be an open book
and transparent. I know this wasn't intended to be a
(19:13):
coaching session, but I'm like, oh my gosh, was some
of this fawning? M Okay, that's our book you for
We're gonna figure it out, but we're gonna talk about it.
It's an important thing and it's happening to so many
people in our community, because when you're raised in a
system with harsh parents or with narcissistic parents, they're training
(19:36):
you to feel like you need to prove yourself to them,
that you need to do whatever you can to to
manage their emotions and manage their feelings and manage how
their perception of you. And so that's that that training
raises you to feel like I need to It causes
this anxiety in you when you're being questioned, when they're
(19:57):
when they're when they're demanding a response, and you're feeling
like you just need to lay it all out and
put it all out for them. But what I would
tell clients who are in that situation is pause rule
of seven seconds as a tool you can use. The
rule of seven seconds dictates that you allow five to
(20:17):
seven seconds to pass before you respond to almost anything.
And so as you're going through the healing process, you're
retraining the brain to learn it is okay for me
to stop and to pause when people ask me questions.
And in that seven seconds, it allows your cerebral cortex
(20:37):
the fire up so that you're no longer just in
the trauma mind. The amygdala responding based on emotion, based
on fear, but allows that prefrontal cortex the fire up.
So now you can respond as the higher self, as
the more spiritual self, as the wiser self, as a
more logical self. That's where emotional regulation is, and that
(20:58):
just allowing that five to seventh, that is the past.
All of a sudden, you can articulate more concisely, and
then I would teach them CBS clear, brief, simple, takes
a little practice. Oh, let's practice this. Let's practice this. Okay,
let's go CBS. Okay. So do you want to pretend
(21:18):
that you are the spouse, but you're asking me the
questions and now I have to practice these tools seven
seconds CBS. Okay, I can respond in a way that
keeps me from oversharing and overexplain. Okay, I noticed that
your ex is giving you heart eyes and your comments
on Instagram. Are y'all reconnecting? Mm hmm? Why are you
(21:44):
so quiet? I'm quiet because what you asked me is
really important, Michelle. It's making me realize that I'm not
doing enough to make you feel secure in this relationship.
There is absolutely nothing going out with my ex. Baby.
Come on, let's spend some time together now, Roman, Wait, wait, well,
(22:08):
you would be doing enough if you could tell her
that it's inappropriate to give you heart eyes if nothing
is going on and she knows that me and you
are together, what's making her feel at liberty to leave
you hard eyes? In your comments section, mm hmm, you
(22:29):
bring up a good point. I should be doing more.
Thank you for bringing that to my attention. Thank you Roman,
And it really helps when you don't dismiss what I'm feeling.
Thank you for considering and let me admit if I'm
responding out of trauma. But thank you for your patients.
(22:51):
But I don't want to see her eyes and your
comments no more. I hear you. Okay, okay, okay, okay,
So as you as you saw there, what I did
was I paused and I allowed the seven seconds of
past and yeah, your spouse might be like, what is
all this pausing? But but it's okay. Still pause anyway,
(23:14):
because your initial response will not be your superior response.
Your initial response will not be your higher mind response.
It will not be your higher self. It will be
your emotional, gut defensive offensive. It could be anger, it
could be feared, but but it's not gonna be your best.
So when you pause. It allows you to respond more logically. Okay,
(23:37):
let's do one where it's not the clear brief simple
so people can differentiate. Oh maybe it is me. You mean,
so I demonstrate what it would look like to overshare. Okay, sure,
who are those flowers from? It's not your birthday? Oh
my god. I knew that you might have a problem
with these flowers, but I just want to let you
(23:57):
know it's really nothing like. It was some people at
work that got me the flowers, but I really was
nothing like. They didn't mean anything to me. And even
though some of the people at work were female. I
don't want you to think that them getting me flowers
has something to do with us having a relationship, because
it doesn't. Like we were talking the other day and
I let them know like the type of flowers I
(24:19):
was into and what I liked, and I think they
just must have probably thought that what I needed was
something because I was a little bit down the other day.
But honestly, it really had nothing to do with you,
and I had nothing to do with our relationship. I
wasn't telling them anything, but ultimately they still do you say,
I'm actually raising more issues, concerns, problems, and especially if
(24:41):
you're toxic, I'm giving you more ammunition to use against me. Yes,
and Roman, I was almost getting Okay, I'm not like this,
but I look at me like this. I could see
how the other person gets pleasure hearing you over explain
(25:03):
versus feeling sorry like I'm sorry, my bad. Maybe it's
just some insecurity in me. Mm hmm. You're right, because
normally you would have told me about flowers you got.
Why don't you tell me this time right? Versus looking
at that person's track record of trust. Maybe they just forgot,
(25:23):
Maybe it was a stressful day they just didn't tell
you about the flowers, or or maybe they just felt like,
why I gotta tell you about flowers? That ain't something
you want to hear, you know, versus everything that's kept
from a person is not because of a secret, like wow, woman,
yeah you nailed it. They get a perverse pleasure. If
you're dealing with a narcissistic spouse or made someone who's abusive,
(25:46):
they're getting a perverse pleasure out of seeing you squirm
and divulge detail after detailed information after information, And you
already know. When you're in your wise mind, knowledge its
power You are giving them more ammunition. You are fawning
when you're over explaining, you're saying, here's all the power,
(26:07):
here's all the power. Please love me, please accept me,
Please don't leave me. We have to stop giving these
abusive people all the power. And that's why it's important
for us to learn how to pause and CBS clear,
brief and simple answer the question, and we can use
(26:27):
aalize techniques like I used when I was responding to
you in a clear, brief and simple way. I use
the technique where I acknowledge where you were coming from.
And that's a part of assertive in its training is
understanding how to balance out our ability to assert ourselves
with having that empathy for how someone else is feeling.
And so all that's in my training videos and stuff
(26:49):
like that in the healing course which listen, y'all, I'm
so excited now, is it mind freed dot org exactly
more the training is, y'all, listen forgive me Roman. I'm
on your site as we speak. Thank you for that.
(27:10):
I appreciate it is something that see. It's if you
go to home c PTSD, you can book online. There
are so many useful resources and there's a healing course
that you can sign up for, and what you're getting
is like as if you could do months of sessions
(27:33):
with me. I have put all the tools, all the gems,
all the training into one healing course and so it's
like you pay forty bucks and then you've got access
for for a month and you can keep it going
or you can cancel after you've you've gone through the course.
But people love it because it allows them to heal
at their own pace, and we're having amazing results with it.
(27:54):
I definitely records. I saw them, and I was about
and if you didn't say it, I was gonna say it.
Where it does allow you to heal at your own pace. Now,
is there a specific situation where you're like, alright, sis, okay, bro,
it's taking you a little too long to heal in
this No, no, that doesn't. But we're here to provide support.
(28:18):
And that's why me and the other therapist that I train,
we will sit and do in person sessions with you
as well to help accelerate your healing. But but you
gotta do it at your own pace. You should be
seeing some growth though while you're healing. Correct in my program,
people are healing from CPTSD within three months, you will
see incredible progress based on the effort that you're putting in.
(28:40):
So if you're watching one of my trainings once in
a while, then it's going to be slower progress. But
if you're on top of it every day watching one
of the videos, you're gonna heal very fast. That's so good,
that's so good. Y'all are probably like, Wow, that was
a great exercise guys, that you guys did. But I
(29:02):
don't know. Healing just don't. I don't know if it's
for me. Have you ever had people say that Roman,
that's good for my neighbor or somebody in a higher
tax bracket, but from where we come from, me from
the streets, Like, I don't, that ain't for us. Yeah, well,
especially if you're from the streets, you have to understand
that healing is not just about flowers and roses and hearts.
(29:28):
It's about arming yourself with the sharpest weapon you can
arm yourself with, which is a sharper mind. You need
a strong mind in the streets. You need a strong
mind in business, You need a strong mind in family,
in a relationship. Your mind is one of the most
precious gifts you have received, so you need to make
(29:50):
sure your mind is sharp. And that's when my healing
program is teaching you how to use your mind, how
to sharpen the mind so that you're able to navigate
all of the relationship ships. Whether it's the deals in
the streets or it's the deals in the boardroom. You
need to understand how to tap into your power, how
to live in your power, because you are a powerful thing. Shish.
(30:13):
This has been so helpful, absolutely impactful. I know, as
the host, sometimes we're not supposed to like make stuff
about us, but I'm just gonna admit, you know a
lot of y'all listening. You know my story, you know
my journey, but this is helping me literally as we speak.
I am an admitted fawner, and I'm looking back to
(30:37):
times where I've been told you're such a team player.
You're such a team player. You're such a team player.
Now I know what that means. You just go along
to get along. You don't want to rough on old
feathers in all sorts of relationships, whether it has been business, personal,
and when I say personal, I'm just even meaning in friendships.
(30:58):
And then of course for a man tick. You know
you have the fear of abandonment, you have the well
I know I wronged you before, so let me over explain,
hoping that there's something that I say that makes you
not question something again. But I think, like you said,
the root of that is how you are raised. I
(31:18):
pray that when I have children like I, let them
explain themselves and not shut them off. Because we were
born in an era of Roman. I don't know about you,
like don't talk back versus no mama want I was
the one that wanted to have the conversation with mom,
not talk back. Can we have a conversation because some
(31:39):
children Roman, I think they really aren't talking back. They
really want to know. And when you shut that off,
you know, communication wise, before you know it, they just
don't say nothing in life. They don't stand up for themselves.
You are right on the money, and therefore they don't
learn the skills like assertiveness. We need assertiveness. That's what
(32:02):
brings us out of the funding and so it brings
us out of the over explaining or the under explaining
or the running away, or helps us to know how
to set boundaries. Is assertiveness. Assertiveness is defined as stating facts.
That's it. That's it. You need the skill of being
(32:22):
able to state effect to your spouse, to your partner
at work, whoever you are, wherever you are, you have
to be able to say that. For you, as an
international superstar, you have to be able to say those
tour dates don't work for me. Stating facts, just being
able to come right out and be like, I'm not
(32:43):
comfortable with the choreography, just stating facts. And it's so
scary to do that, especially if, like you said, those
skills were extinguished in childhood when your parents didn't allow
you to speak up, didn't encourage you to learn how
to respectfully assert yourself, then you didn't learn the skills
(33:05):
in childhood. You're absolutely right, So that's why we got
to learn those skills of how to assertive, so not
to be aggressive, to be assertive to state facts. But
you do know, roman, especially with black women, I've I've
seen it time and time again and I've experienced it
when we are being assertive. Sometimes we've been called aggressive. Well,
(33:26):
it's important to make sure that we're not actually crossing
that line over into being aggressive. So we need to
really learn the skills of being assertive, right, because well,
you'll notice when I was when I was dealing with
you in our my OC session, You notice I didn't
cross the line on being aggressive. That was assertiveness for
me to say, you know what, maybe I am not
(33:47):
doing enough. Now do those individuals who are who are
being accused of being aggressive, are they making sure that
they're addressing things from that empathetic standpoint and not purely
a defensive standpoint. We need to learn how to not
respond in a defensive manner, because the moment you do that,
you are in an argument defensive and offensive. That creates
(34:08):
a fight. When you can learn to express yourself, to
state a fact, but to not defend or offend, then
you are no longer aggressive, you're no longer at war,
but you're actually having that conversation that you're yearning to have. Wow,
so so good, so so good. And we have to
be assertive and not fear the result or a consequence of,
(34:33):
like you said, stating of fact. All right, yeah, because
that's a great point, because we are called aggressive even
when we're not being aggressive and we are just being assertive.
But we cannot fear other people's judgment, their judgment of me,
their opinion of me is their business. It's not my job.
I'm not trying to control your perception of me. I
(34:54):
am trying to state a fact. I don't like the
tour dates. I'm stay eating a fact, just saying something
that is true. I'm not comfortable with the way you're
touching me. I'm stating a fact. They can say you're
being mean, you're being a jerk, you're They can say
that that's their business. How they feel and what they
(35:14):
think is their responsibility to manage. It's my responsibility to
manage what I feel and what I think. And that's
why I'm setting a boundary so that I can continue
to care for myself, to protect myself. Now, that's got
to be part two. But I'm gonna leave this right
here because I just got a revelation. Possibly when you
are not assertive, I think that's one of the root
(35:37):
reasons why people ghost. Yeah, for trauma survivors. Absolutely, Okay,
that is part two. Roman, you have blessed us on
this day. You have to come back. I would love
(36:01):
to be my honor. Thank you for having me. I
appreciate that absolutely. Y'all. We can find Romans and known
me at mind Freed Dot org. Honey get your Mind
freed on YouTube as well. You are a gym, someone
well needed in this earth, and I'm so glad that
(36:23):
you are operating in your calling because to be effective
in less than an hour in which we've talked, I know,
I know you're doing God's work for sure. So I'm truly, truly,
truly thankful for your time today. Thanks for Schelle, We're
thankful for you as well. Can we say, Mike Drop,
(36:47):
I don't know what to say. I'm ready to book
a session now. I do have my own therapist, but
Romans and Nanni is uh pretty interesting. Again. You can
go to mind free dot org for his courses and
you know wherever you are or if you want to
start the healing journey. I thought this was incredible and
(37:10):
I love seeing and talking to men who are in
the space of mental health who are just trying to
help heal and free people, one mind at a time,
one heart at a time, one soul at a time.
I truly believe, oh, I so believe in a great
quality of life. Why focus on trying to be the
richest person in the world. If your heart can't contain it,
(37:32):
if your soul can't contain it. If your mind can't
contain it, wouldn't it be best to have a great
quality of life? Focus on that first, and then you
know we can add the other things. But I know
we got bills to pay. We've got families to feed
and child houses to buy and stuff to invest in.
(37:52):
So I get it. Listen, a way of life, in
a way of living. Earning coins is important. But I'm
just wondering, as I'm older, when I was so focused
on getting out the house, so I can't wait till
I get out the house. Well, I can't wait till
I do this so I can have money to buy this.
And then, in my own experience, having the revelation that
(38:14):
success does not heal trauma. Money don't heal trauma. It
helps you pay your bills on time, at least you
should be paying your bills on time, no judgment, no judgment.
Having income can afford you resources when you're sick or
when a loved one is in need, But it does
not take away trauma. It doesn't take away the hurt
(38:35):
from words spoken over you. It doesn't take away hurt
from even folks that still have a physical wound from
physical abuse. Being inflicted upon you when you were younger.
Success does not take away the sting and the burn
of betrayal, heartbreak, abandonment, neglect. Right, So, I'm so glad
(38:59):
that we could have this conversation, and I'm excited to
personally work on my habit to people please. I love
making people happy, but at the same time, I hate
feeling like I disappointed somebody, or I hate feeling like
I hurt somebody's feelings. And so the same grace that
I give people, it's the same grace that I hope
someone would give me, you know, should I have said
(39:21):
something in the wrong tone or you know what I mean.
And so I'm working on that. I'm working on that,
and y'all, my checking in tribe, you're gonna help me
with that as I sit and help you by bringing
amazing guests like Romans Nani, and please please please keep
in touch with me via social media to let me
know if this podcast episode helped you, if it made
(39:43):
you think, even reflect. Heck, even if you disagree, I
want all the smoke. I want you guys to engage
with me and say, I mean, I don't agree with that,
but have you tried this approach I love y'all so much.
Y'all are amazing, And again it's I say this as
much as possible bowl you know, because of you, guys
listening and downloading. I can't do these episodes without you.
(40:05):
I wouldn't have a deal without y'all, so thank you
so much. And let's continue checking in, Let's keep healing,
and let's keep loving. All right, love y'all so much,
all right, bye. Checking In with Michelle Williams is a
(40:39):
production of I Heart Radio and The Black Effect. For
more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I heart
Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows.
Welcome to Checking In with Michelle Williams, a production of
My Heart Radio and The Black Effect. We have all
suffered from trauma or encountered people that we love who
(00:23):
have suffered from it as well, but can't we ever recover? Well?
My guest today says yes, and that we can do
the healing for ourselves. He's coming up next here on
Checking In. Hey, y'all, I'm so so so thrilled that
(00:44):
y'all are back for another episode of Checking In. Today's
guest is an American artist. Yes, they've got music, y'all.
At first, when I saw artists, I was like, oh,
that's nice. They draw they do stencils, because it kind
of would make sense because of the healing work that
(01:05):
they do in the philanthropy that he does. He is
also a trauma recovery specialist and guess what, y'all, he
lives in the home area of Chicago. Please welcome to
Checking In, Romans and One. Thank you so much for that,
appreciate what you're doing. Thanks for having me. Absolutely, it
(01:26):
is so good to speak with you during this time
and during this season where I feel like a lot
of people it's the holidays, people are grieving the loss
of loved ones or their way of life. People are
still recovering from the pandemic and how it has changed
and shifted things. So I'm so glad that you are
(01:49):
here to walk us through some things. Thank you. I'm
happy to be You have an interesting occupation. You are
a trauma recovery specialist. You help people heal their brain
and body from the effects of complex trauma using your
own mind. You mean to tell me that we have
(02:10):
the power within ourselves. We do. We have the power
to heal ourselves using our own mind. So when you
experience a trauma, your brain is traumatized, but your mind
is not the same as your brain, So you can
use your mind to heal your brain. And the way
I like to differentiate that is the mind is the
(02:31):
operating system of the brain, and the brain is your supercomputer.
And the reason why the methods that we're using are
so effective but not really well known is because most
scientists and doctors don't want to touch the mind because
they know nothing about the mind. Because there's a spiritual
(02:52):
component to this faculty of the mind. If you were
to google it, you'll just come up with an answer
like it is the phenomena of mental faculty, and it's like,
what does that even mean? It means we have no
idea what it is. So what I specialized in is
helping people to understand what the mind is how to
(03:14):
use it, because it is a most precious gift and
it is powerful and we can use it to heal
our anxiety, our depression, our low self worth, our low
self esteem, loneliness, anger. And so when working with trauma survivors,
I'm helping them to overcome the effects of their trauma,
(03:38):
and that has long reaching effects because trauma is the
root of so much mental illness. Most intact, I say
this on every episode where we talk about trauma, just
in case there are some new listeners. Trauma just isn't
bodily harm as far as you punch me in the head,
(04:02):
or your car rams into the wall or you crash,
that is a form of trauma, as far as blunt
force trauma. Right, But trauma is also getting news that
your boyfriend cheated on you, verbal abuse, you're so shocked
that a person said this thing. Can you help people
not just see trauma as blood and guts, although it is, Yeah,
(04:25):
what I'm dealing with is psychological trauma, when a person
is assaulted, when a person goes through, like you said,
getting bad news on the telephone, or losing a loved one,
And that's wide ranging. But again, trauma is one of
those things no one really knows what exactly it is. Like,
we all talk about it, we know, but how to
(04:47):
really pin it down and define it is very difficult.
So I would define it as this trauma is anything
that is distressing and causes an undesirable chain in the person.
It's anything that is both distressing and causes an undesirable
(05:07):
change in the person. And that's the problem with our trauma.
When we go through an assault or an abuse or
neglect and we're feeling this pain inside and we we
actually change as a result of what has happened to us,
but we don't like the way we've changed. We've become untrusting,
we feel anxious, we become sad, and how do we
(05:28):
overcome that change? How do we change back so to
speak to who we used to be, or more so,
to progress to who we really can be when we're
feeling stuck in the trauma. And that's what I specialized in,
and the effects of utilizing your mind to heal yourself
is that you can break out of the trappedness of
(05:50):
trauma within weeks, within months of work, not years, not
a lifetime. In one session, we can heal a person's anxiety,
even if they've been dealing with anxiety their whole lives
because of the way we're doing, we're getting directly to
the route. In one session, we can obliterate a person's oppression,
(06:13):
even when they've been going through through depression their entire life.
Why because we're getting to the root of the actual issue,
which is trauma. I've heard some people say, I don't
ever think I'll be able to get rid of my depression.
I've had it for years. I'm speaking with someone because
I asked her. I said, well, do you know what
the root is? She said, there isn't a root. Everyone
(06:35):
in my family has depression. M hmm. Yeah, you'll hear
that a lot. But that is a misconception. Depression does
not get handed down in your genes from one person
to the next person. You can have a predisposition for it,
no doubt, but that same person who feels like they've
inherited this could have one session with me or a
(06:56):
therapist who's trained by me and field or depression lift
in thirty to forty five minutes of just having a conversation.
And how is that. It's because we understand what's actually
causing the depression. At the core. It is not their genes.
At the core, it is not the chemical imbalance as
(07:17):
we're taught. And yes, the feeling and the sensation and
the body is the chemicals. But what is the cause,
what is releasing the toxic amount of cortisol in the system.
The cause at the root is the perception of the mind.
The subconscious mind is perceiving that something is out of
(07:38):
line with your values, and it is communicating to you
through the chemicals. It's letting you know, Roman Michelle, there's
something wrong here. There's something in our in our reality
that we're perceiving is unacceptable, and we feel powerless to
change it. Those two components are what give us the feeling,
(07:59):
the sensation, and of depression when we feel something is
unacceptable and we feel powerless to change it. Once we
will be identify what that is in that moment, at
that time that you're going through that's causing that, and
we simply alter the perception of it. So that you're
you're looking at it from a more healed mindset. Suddenly
(08:22):
your subconscious releases a balanced chemical cocktail instead of that
extreme chemical cocktail, and you emotionally feel more balanced, more stable.
How did you get into this? Was it your own
history or I do consider myself to be a trauma survivor.
(08:44):
But it was after getting out of my marriage of
fifteen years to a narcissist. And it is very difficult
for for men to identify that they are married to
a narcissist because there's lack of support and understanding of
what narcissism looks like in a female. As I got
(09:06):
out of that, I had already been coaching counseling for
twenty years, and I said, I do not want to
become a narcissism counselor. I don't want to because I'm done.
I did fifteen years with a narcissist. I don't want
to talk about narcissism anymore. But it was the next
woman that I fell in love with. She was the
opposite of a narcissist. She was empathic, but as an
(09:30):
unhealed EmPATH, she's hyper vigilant. She has all types of anxiety,
she's feeling difficulty trusting, she feels a loss of self,
like not really knowing who she is, and I'm seeing
her go through these issues and I'm loving her so much.
And then I watched her sabotage our relationship and her
(09:51):
life so that she lost everything she truly wanted. And
I couldn't understand why would a person sabotage and lose
everything they wanted? Why would someone do this? And that
had me perplex That got me interested in getting into
mental illness very deeply, and that's where I discovered cpt
(10:15):
s D, complex post traumatic stress disorder. It was a
dead ringer for this woman that I loved. And for
those who don't know what c p t s D is,
it's like PTSD but times ten times a hundred because
instead of it being one trauma, you lived or grew
up in the trauma, or you were in sustained trauma
(10:38):
for a number of years, and so now you have
you're manifesting symptoms such as high anxiety, fear of abandonment
that could lead to people pleasing, a loss of self,
not knowing who you are, living in fear and shame
and all of that. So so when I when I
realized what she was suffering from. Now it was too late,
(10:58):
but I wanted to help her. So that's what led
me into well how do I how do I help
support someone with anxiety? And I started developing a system
that would actually help someone overcome anxiety. It turned out
it was so effective that people are are overcoming In
one session, I said, Wow, if this is so good,
(11:19):
can we do this with depression and it works with depression?
Can we do this with low self esteem and it
works with low self esteem? Can we deal with managing anger?
Can we do it with loneliness? And it turns out
that yes, we can actually help a person to heal
from all of the effects of CPTSD, which is complex trauma,
within just a matter of weeks or months. And that
(11:41):
that was like, this is it for me? This is
definitely it. Do they know the line of work that
you're doing right now? Like do the two former women?
If they google me and they'll find out. Okay, now
this is a fun question. I hope it's not probing,
but I don't know if you married and anything that,
But does it affect how you date? Are you assessing
(12:04):
people as you're dating? That's a great question. Actually I'm
not dating right now. I'm just focused on my work
and purpose. Okay, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. I
crack up because those of us who have even just
been in therapy for a number of years, we want
to assess and be the psychologists and psychiatrists and say,
(12:25):
you know what, he didn't get enough love as a child.
He's performance oriented. So absolutely, that's how we do. That
is how we do. What are some of the common
ways that we incorrectly deal with trauma? Oh, there's a lot.
(12:49):
So what happens really commonly as people will distract they
feel the anxiety or they feel the depression, and they're
trying to distract themselves by uh, television, shopping, being around people,
or drugs, alcohol. People are trying to figure out how
to get rid of the pain inside of them, so
(13:10):
they're blasting the music and watching the television. But that's
actually the opposite of what we should be doing. We
should be leaning directly into the sensation to understand what
it is because it is a communication from your subconscious.
So we need to actually address the feelings of anxiety, depression,
(13:31):
and if it's trauma that we're trying to overcome. We
need to be able to not only identify what is
it that caused the trauma, but to address the beliefs
because we may need to change our beliefs from unhealed
beliefs to healed beliefs and the way we're thinking and
our behavior. When you heal your belief system, the way
(13:55):
you're thinking, and your behavior, you will hear mental illness.
Because all mental illness comes down to false beliefs, maladaptive
way of thinking that is unhealthy and unhelpful to the south,
in a maladaptive way of behaving that is unhealthy to
the self or others. And so when you can change
(14:16):
the behavior and the way of thinking and the beliefs
to all be aligned, then you will be in healing
and it will actually pull you out of mental illness.
Even say the person that's dealing with something like schizophrenia,
which is something I haven't delved deep into, like anxiety, depression,
by polar and those are some of the things because
(14:38):
those were I'll be transparent a lot of things that
I was screened for. But schizophrenia, when is that considered
something that a person can be cured of or if
they come work with you, is that something that can
be lessened the symptoms. Yes, people can heal from that
and the symptoms can be less And I don't specialize
in schizophrenia, but still you have false beliefs. A schizophrenic
(15:03):
is at a point where they're believing things that are
not true or are not helpful to the self. If
we can convince that person that those things are untrue,
and we can bring them into believing and seeing the truth,
and then we can help their pattern of thinking to
be a way that is thinking that it's helpful to
them and being aligned with what is true, and then
(15:26):
we can bring their behavior into what is healthy and
helpful to them. Then yes, their symptoms will dissipate and
they will be cure. Okay, you are touching on CPTSD
the signs that a person should be looking for. I'm assuming,
like when you talk about insecurity, but even some of
the physical things shaking, the fidgeting, zoning out, rocking, you know,
(15:51):
I guess to soothe to me, rocking is almost soothing.
I'm assuming that those are some of those signs that
we should be looking out for. And anyone can have
cpt s D that has had trauma correct. Yeah, especially
if you've had it for a sustained period of time,
then then it's going to become complex. Yeah, now how
(16:12):
does that relate to As we were talking about before
we started officially recording, oversharing and over explaining is a
form of cpt s D. It's a trauma response, and
yes it's a symptom of CPTSD. So what what you
have with oversharing and over explaining is when you're in
a situation where you're called upon to offer an explanation,
(16:37):
you find yourself going, going, going, and explaining way too
many details and divulging things about yourself that you're later
going to regret divulging or or with oversharing, you're going
into too much intimate stuff with your life and and
telling people that really aren't worthy of all of that
sharing and explanation. And so what's actually happening for the
(16:59):
person is this is the fawn response. So with trauma
you have fight, flight, freeze, and faun And what funding
is is let me lose so so you can win.
And that's a way that we survive traumatic situations. Like
it's adaptive. If someone is is coming in to rob
me and I say, oh, let me lose so you
(17:21):
can win. Here's my money, here's everything, and this is
how I survived the situation. That's funding. But what happens
is when someone comes from complex trauma, they've learned to
fawn as a way of life. So now they're always
telling people in their lives essentially, let me lose so
that you can win. In every relationship, it's like, how
are you feeling, what are you thinking? What do you need?
(17:44):
And they are ignoring their own needs and they're they're
faunding now to the detriment of their selfs and they're saying, yes,
they're people pleasing, which means they're basically lying to try
to go with the flow, to make sure no one's
upset with them, to make sure everyone's happy, to make
sure they're always appeasing the needs and wants and desires
(18:05):
of everyone else. And they've learned to just ignore or
shut down any knowledge or understanding of how they are
truly feeling. So when you're oversharing, it's a fun response
because you're saying, even if this is to my detriment
to blab all of this information, I'm going to do
it because I'm afraid right now, I'm afraid that you're
going to reject me. I'm afraid that you're going to
(18:26):
judge me. I'm afraid that you're going to think I'm lying.
And it's that fear a lot of times, a fear
of abandonment that causes people to overexplain and overshare. And
I'm wondering, I guess, just from experience, you're hoping that
if there is something in the blabbing that you're saying
that they're going to connect to and you be accepted,
let me just share everything and there's something and there's
(18:51):
gonna be something you say and all of that, they're
gonna be like, Okay, you cool with me? I forgive you. Okay,
oh see, you said exactly what I needed to hear
in order for us to move forward. Wow, there are
moments where I consider myself to be an open book
and transparent. I know this wasn't intended to be a
(19:13):
coaching session, but I'm like, oh my gosh, was some
of this fawning? M Okay, that's our book you for
We're gonna figure it out, but we're gonna talk about it.
It's an important thing and it's happening to so many
people in our community, because when you're raised in a
system with harsh parents or with narcissistic parents, they're training
(19:36):
you to feel like you need to prove yourself to them,
that you need to do whatever you can to to
manage their emotions and manage their feelings and manage how
their perception of you. And so that's that that training
raises you to feel like I need to It causes
this anxiety in you when you're being questioned, when they're
(19:57):
when they're when they're demanding a response, and you're feeling
like you just need to lay it all out and
put it all out for them. But what I would
tell clients who are in that situation is pause rule
of seven seconds as a tool you can use. The
rule of seven seconds dictates that you allow five to
(20:17):
seven seconds to pass before you respond to almost anything.
And so as you're going through the healing process, you're
retraining the brain to learn it is okay for me
to stop and to pause when people ask me questions.
And in that seven seconds, it allows your cerebral cortex
(20:37):
the fire up so that you're no longer just in
the trauma mind. The amygdala responding based on emotion, based
on fear, but allows that prefrontal cortex the fire up.
So now you can respond as the higher self, as
the more spiritual self, as the wiser self, as a
more logical self. That's where emotional regulation is, and that
(20:58):
just allowing that five to seventh, that is the past.
All of a sudden, you can articulate more concisely, and
then I would teach them CBS clear, brief, simple, takes
a little practice. Oh, let's practice this. Let's practice this. Okay,
let's go CBS. Okay. So do you want to pretend
(21:18):
that you are the spouse, but you're asking me the
questions and now I have to practice these tools seven
seconds CBS. Okay, I can respond in a way that
keeps me from oversharing and overexplain. Okay, I noticed that
your ex is giving you heart eyes and your comments
on Instagram. Are y'all reconnecting? Mm hmm? Why are you
(21:44):
so quiet? I'm quiet because what you asked me is
really important, Michelle. It's making me realize that I'm not
doing enough to make you feel secure in this relationship.
There is absolutely nothing going out with my ex. Baby.
Come on, let's spend some time together now, Roman, Wait, wait, well,
(22:08):
you would be doing enough if you could tell her
that it's inappropriate to give you heart eyes if nothing
is going on and she knows that me and you
are together, what's making her feel at liberty to leave
you hard eyes? In your comments section, mm hmm, you
(22:29):
bring up a good point. I should be doing more.
Thank you for bringing that to my attention. Thank you Roman,
And it really helps when you don't dismiss what I'm feeling.
Thank you for considering and let me admit if I'm
responding out of trauma. But thank you for your patients.
(22:51):
But I don't want to see her eyes and your
comments no more. I hear you. Okay, okay, okay, okay,
So as you as you saw there, what I did
was I paused and I allowed the seven seconds of
past and yeah, your spouse might be like, what is
all this pausing? But but it's okay. Still pause anyway,
(23:14):
because your initial response will not be your superior response.
Your initial response will not be your higher mind response.
It will not be your higher self. It will be
your emotional, gut defensive offensive. It could be anger, it
could be feared, but but it's not gonna be your best.
So when you pause. It allows you to respond more logically. Okay,
(23:37):
let's do one where it's not the clear brief simple
so people can differentiate. Oh maybe it is me. You mean,
so I demonstrate what it would look like to overshare. Okay, sure,
who are those flowers from? It's not your birthday? Oh
my god. I knew that you might have a problem
with these flowers, but I just want to let you
(23:57):
know it's really nothing like. It was some people at
work that got me the flowers, but I really was
nothing like. They didn't mean anything to me. And even
though some of the people at work were female. I
don't want you to think that them getting me flowers
has something to do with us having a relationship, because
it doesn't. Like we were talking the other day and
I let them know like the type of flowers I
(24:19):
was into and what I liked, and I think they
just must have probably thought that what I needed was
something because I was a little bit down the other day.
But honestly, it really had nothing to do with you,
and I had nothing to do with our relationship. I
wasn't telling them anything, but ultimately they still do you say,
I'm actually raising more issues, concerns, problems, and especially if
(24:41):
you're toxic, I'm giving you more ammunition to use against me. Yes,
and Roman, I was almost getting Okay, I'm not like this,
but I look at me like this. I could see
how the other person gets pleasure hearing you over explain
(25:03):
versus feeling sorry like I'm sorry, my bad. Maybe it's
just some insecurity in me. Mm hmm. You're right, because
normally you would have told me about flowers you got.
Why don't you tell me this time right? Versus looking
at that person's track record of trust. Maybe they just forgot,
(25:23):
Maybe it was a stressful day they just didn't tell
you about the flowers, or or maybe they just felt like,
why I gotta tell you about flowers? That ain't something
you want to hear, you know, versus everything that's kept
from a person is not because of a secret, like wow, woman,
yeah you nailed it. They get a perverse pleasure. If
you're dealing with a narcissistic spouse or made someone who's abusive,
(25:46):
they're getting a perverse pleasure out of seeing you squirm
and divulge detail after detailed information after information, And you
already know. When you're in your wise mind, knowledge its
power You are giving them more ammunition. You are fawning
when you're over explaining, you're saying, here's all the power,
(26:07):
here's all the power. Please love me, please accept me,
Please don't leave me. We have to stop giving these
abusive people all the power. And that's why it's important
for us to learn how to pause and CBS clear,
brief and simple answer the question, and we can use
(26:27):
aalize techniques like I used when I was responding to
you in a clear, brief and simple way. I use
the technique where I acknowledge where you were coming from.
And that's a part of assertive in its training is
understanding how to balance out our ability to assert ourselves
with having that empathy for how someone else is feeling.
And so all that's in my training videos and stuff
(26:49):
like that in the healing course which listen, y'all, I'm
so excited now, is it mind freed dot org exactly
more the training is, y'all, listen forgive me Roman. I'm
on your site as we speak. Thank you for that.
(27:10):
I appreciate it is something that see. It's if you
go to home c PTSD, you can book online. There
are so many useful resources and there's a healing course
that you can sign up for, and what you're getting
is like as if you could do months of sessions
(27:33):
with me. I have put all the tools, all the gems,
all the training into one healing course and so it's
like you pay forty bucks and then you've got access
for for a month and you can keep it going
or you can cancel after you've you've gone through the course.
But people love it because it allows them to heal
at their own pace, and we're having amazing results with it.
(27:54):
I definitely records. I saw them, and I was about
and if you didn't say it, I was gonna say it.
Where it does allow you to heal at your own pace. Now,
is there a specific situation where you're like, alright, sis, okay, bro,
it's taking you a little too long to heal in
this No, no, that doesn't. But we're here to provide support.
(28:18):
And that's why me and the other therapist that I train,
we will sit and do in person sessions with you
as well to help accelerate your healing. But but you
gotta do it at your own pace. You should be
seeing some growth though while you're healing. Correct in my program,
people are healing from CPTSD within three months, you will
see incredible progress based on the effort that you're putting in.
(28:40):
So if you're watching one of my trainings once in
a while, then it's going to be slower progress. But
if you're on top of it every day watching one
of the videos, you're gonna heal very fast. That's so good,
that's so good. Y'all are probably like, Wow, that was
a great exercise guys, that you guys did. But I
(29:02):
don't know. Healing just don't. I don't know if it's
for me. Have you ever had people say that Roman,
that's good for my neighbor or somebody in a higher
tax bracket, but from where we come from, me from
the streets, Like, I don't, that ain't for us. Yeah, well,
especially if you're from the streets, you have to understand
that healing is not just about flowers and roses and hearts.
(29:28):
It's about arming yourself with the sharpest weapon you can
arm yourself with, which is a sharper mind. You need
a strong mind in the streets. You need a strong
mind in business, You need a strong mind in family,
in a relationship. Your mind is one of the most
precious gifts you have received, so you need to make
(29:50):
sure your mind is sharp. And that's when my healing
program is teaching you how to use your mind, how
to sharpen the mind so that you're able to navigate
all of the relationship ships. Whether it's the deals in
the streets or it's the deals in the boardroom. You
need to understand how to tap into your power, how
to live in your power, because you are a powerful thing. Shish.
(30:13):
This has been so helpful, absolutely impactful. I know, as
the host, sometimes we're not supposed to like make stuff
about us, but I'm just gonna admit, you know a
lot of y'all listening. You know my story, you know
my journey, but this is helping me literally as we speak.
I am an admitted fawner, and I'm looking back to
(30:37):
times where I've been told you're such a team player.
You're such a team player. You're such a team player.
Now I know what that means. You just go along
to get along. You don't want to rough on old
feathers in all sorts of relationships, whether it has been business, personal,
and when I say personal, I'm just even meaning in friendships.
(30:58):
And then of course for a man tick. You know
you have the fear of abandonment, you have the well
I know I wronged you before, so let me over explain,
hoping that there's something that I say that makes you
not question something again. But I think, like you said,
the root of that is how you are raised. I
(31:18):
pray that when I have children like I, let them
explain themselves and not shut them off. Because we were
born in an era of Roman. I don't know about you,
like don't talk back versus no mama want I was
the one that wanted to have the conversation with mom,
not talk back. Can we have a conversation because some
(31:39):
children Roman, I think they really aren't talking back. They
really want to know. And when you shut that off,
you know, communication wise, before you know it, they just
don't say nothing in life. They don't stand up for themselves.
You are right on the money, and therefore they don't
learn the skills like assertiveness. We need assertiveness. That's what
(32:02):
brings us out of the funding and so it brings
us out of the over explaining or the under explaining
or the running away, or helps us to know how
to set boundaries. Is assertiveness. Assertiveness is defined as stating facts.
That's it. That's it. You need the skill of being
(32:22):
able to state effect to your spouse, to your partner
at work, whoever you are, wherever you are, you have
to be able to say that. For you, as an
international superstar, you have to be able to say those
tour dates don't work for me. Stating facts, just being
able to come right out and be like, I'm not
(32:43):
comfortable with the choreography, just stating facts. And it's so
scary to do that, especially if, like you said, those
skills were extinguished in childhood when your parents didn't allow
you to speak up, didn't encourage you to learn how
to respectfully assert yourself, then you didn't learn the skills
(33:05):
in childhood. You're absolutely right, So that's why we got
to learn those skills of how to assertive, so not
to be aggressive, to be assertive to state facts. But
you do know, roman, especially with black women, I've I've
seen it time and time again and I've experienced it
when we are being assertive. Sometimes we've been called aggressive. Well,
(33:26):
it's important to make sure that we're not actually crossing
that line over into being aggressive. So we need to
really learn the skills of being assertive, right, because well,
you'll notice when I was when I was dealing with
you in our my OC session, You notice I didn't
cross the line on being aggressive. That was assertiveness for
me to say, you know what, maybe I am not
(33:47):
doing enough. Now do those individuals who are who are
being accused of being aggressive, are they making sure that
they're addressing things from that empathetic standpoint and not purely
a defensive standpoint. We need to learn how to not
respond in a defensive manner, because the moment you do that,
you are in an argument defensive and offensive. That creates
(34:08):
a fight. When you can learn to express yourself, to
state a fact, but to not defend or offend, then
you are no longer aggressive, you're no longer at war,
but you're actually having that conversation that you're yearning to have. Wow,
so so good, so so good. And we have to
be assertive and not fear the result or a consequence of,
(34:33):
like you said, stating of fact. All right, yeah, because
that's a great point, because we are called aggressive even
when we're not being aggressive and we are just being assertive.
But we cannot fear other people's judgment, their judgment of me,
their opinion of me is their business. It's not my job.
I'm not trying to control your perception of me. I
(34:54):
am trying to state a fact. I don't like the
tour dates. I'm stay eating a fact, just saying something
that is true. I'm not comfortable with the way you're
touching me. I'm stating a fact. They can say you're
being mean, you're being a jerk, you're They can say
that that's their business. How they feel and what they
(35:14):
think is their responsibility to manage. It's my responsibility to
manage what I feel and what I think. And that's
why I'm setting a boundary so that I can continue
to care for myself, to protect myself. Now, that's got
to be part two. But I'm gonna leave this right
here because I just got a revelation. Possibly when you
are not assertive, I think that's one of the root
(35:37):
reasons why people ghost. Yeah, for trauma survivors. Absolutely, Okay,
that is part two. Roman, you have blessed us on
this day. You have to come back. I would love
(36:01):
to be my honor. Thank you for having me. I
appreciate that absolutely. Y'all. We can find Romans and known
me at mind Freed Dot org. Honey get your Mind
freed on YouTube as well. You are a gym, someone
well needed in this earth, and I'm so glad that
(36:23):
you are operating in your calling because to be effective
in less than an hour in which we've talked, I know,
I know you're doing God's work for sure. So I'm truly, truly,
truly thankful for your time today. Thanks for Schelle, We're
thankful for you as well. Can we say, Mike Drop,
(36:47):
I don't know what to say. I'm ready to book
a session now. I do have my own therapist, but
Romans and Nanni is uh pretty interesting. Again. You can
go to mind free dot org for his courses and
you know wherever you are or if you want to
start the healing journey. I thought this was incredible and
(37:10):
I love seeing and talking to men who are in
the space of mental health who are just trying to
help heal and free people, one mind at a time,
one heart at a time, one soul at a time.
I truly believe, oh, I so believe in a great
quality of life. Why focus on trying to be the
richest person in the world. If your heart can't contain it,
(37:32):
if your soul can't contain it. If your mind can't
contain it, wouldn't it be best to have a great
quality of life? Focus on that first, and then you
know we can add the other things. But I know
we got bills to pay. We've got families to feed
and child houses to buy and stuff to invest in.
(37:52):
So I get it. Listen, a way of life, in
a way of living. Earning coins is important. But I'm
just wondering, as I'm older, when I was so focused
on getting out the house, so I can't wait till
I get out the house. Well, I can't wait till
I do this so I can have money to buy this.
And then, in my own experience, having the revelation that
(38:14):
success does not heal trauma. Money don't heal trauma. It
helps you pay your bills on time, at least you
should be paying your bills on time, no judgment, no judgment.
Having income can afford you resources when you're sick or
when a loved one is in need, But it does
not take away trauma. It doesn't take away the hurt
(38:35):
from words spoken over you. It doesn't take away hurt
from even folks that still have a physical wound from
physical abuse. Being inflicted upon you when you were younger.
Success does not take away the sting and the burn
of betrayal, heartbreak, abandonment, neglect. Right, So, I'm so glad
(38:59):
that we could have this conversation, and I'm excited to
personally work on my habit to people please. I love
making people happy, but at the same time, I hate
feeling like I disappointed somebody, or I hate feeling like
I hurt somebody's feelings. And so the same grace that
I give people, it's the same grace that I hope
someone would give me, you know, should I have said
(39:21):
something in the wrong tone or you know what I mean.
And so I'm working on that. I'm working on that,
and y'all, my checking in tribe, you're gonna help me
with that as I sit and help you by bringing
amazing guests like Romans Nani, and please please please keep
in touch with me via social media to let me
know if this podcast episode helped you, if it made
(39:43):
you think, even reflect. Heck, even if you disagree, I
want all the smoke. I want you guys to engage
with me and say, I mean, I don't agree with that,
but have you tried this approach I love y'all so much.
Y'all are amazing, And again it's I say this as
much as possible bowl you know, because of you, guys
listening and downloading. I can't do these episodes without you.
(40:05):
I wouldn't have a deal without y'all, so thank you
so much. And let's continue checking in, Let's keep healing,
and let's keep loving. All right, love y'all so much,
all right, bye. Checking In with Michelle Williams is a
(40:39):
production of I Heart Radio and The Black Effect. For
more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I heart
Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows.
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