Going Boysober with Hope Woodard

Holis! Welcome to this episode of Chiquis and Chill. Today, we’re talking about one of my favorite topics: RELATIONSHIPS. I’m joined by comedian, storyteller and creator Hope Woodard to talk about her relationship with men, her relationship with herself and about something she calls Boysober.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hello everyone.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
This is the Cheese and Chill Podcast, your favorite podcast
where you come to learn, to grow, and to glow.
And one of the things that I like to do
on this podcast is to explore topics about relationships. We
just had a really great conversation on healing from heartbreak
with grief and couple's therapists Eva. Let that be, And
today we're going to talk about something our guest, Hope Woodard,

(00:26):
calls boy sover. She's a comedian, a storyteller, and a creator,
and she's going to tell us exactly what boy sober
means and why she thinks seeking male validation is a
generational and societal issue.

Speaker 1 (00:39):
Welcome to the show.

Speaker 3 (00:40):
Hope.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
I love your name, by the way.

Speaker 4 (00:41):
Oh thank you, thank you. You love it.

Speaker 3 (00:44):
Yes, I said to someone truly about an hour ago.
I was like, like, Hope isn't lost And she was
like like, when you say your name, do you think
of yourself all the time? And I'm like, like it
is a hard Yeah, totally.

Speaker 1 (00:57):
I probably would.

Speaker 3 (00:58):
As a spiritual thing, Hope is I think one of
the better things to like hold on to spiritually. Hope
and grace are two of the best ones, especially right now.
In this in this administration, I'm like holding on to it.

Speaker 4 (01:16):
It's it's an important thing, you.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
Know, absolutely, It's what's going to get us through, guys.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
So I love it. My niece, her middle name is Hope,
Jayla Hope. So we have Jayla Hope. We have Genevieve Faith,
we have Jordan Love, and then Julie and Joy. So
my sister did all you Yeah, So like it's really.

Speaker 1 (01:35):
Special to me.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
And talking about my nieces because I think this is
an episode that I want to share with them. They're young.
One is about to be sixteen. I still see her
as a baby, and the other one's eleven, and I
have another I think eleven year old. So anyway, they're young,
but I think we need to talk about these things.
The younger they are, the better because you're fairly young.
How young are you?

Speaker 4 (01:56):
I'm twenty nine, so a young girl.

Speaker 1 (01:59):
I know, I'm we are isn't weird totally?

Speaker 4 (02:01):
I know, but like twenty nine does feel like.

Speaker 3 (02:05):
I was working I have a little like bartending job,
and a girl walked in the other day and she
had a shirt on that said like I've aged like
fine wine, and I.

Speaker 4 (02:14):
Was like, I love your shirt, and she said, I
bought this.

Speaker 3 (02:16):
When I was twenty one, and we both just like
laughed about how young it is to be twenty one,
Like twenty nine is still young, and I'm like, this
is the youngest I'll ever be, you know, but twenty
nine is not twenty one.

Speaker 4 (02:29):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
I get what I mean, I feel you.

Speaker 4 (02:32):
I'm like, I'm I've been around the block.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
You know, I get you, and I well, for me,
I think that this is what what you're doing is
beautiful because I know it went crazy like on TikTok
and like came super trendy, which I think is awesome
because that's where a lot of the youth is is.
So I want to talk about it. I want to
start off with how are you today?

Speaker 1 (02:55):
How are you feeling?

Speaker 3 (02:56):
Oh my god, thank you so much for asking immediately,
I'm like, you've asked me that and I've like relaxed.

Speaker 4 (03:02):
How am I today? I'm good.

Speaker 3 (03:04):
I should say I've given up cigarettes and I'm thirty
two days no nicotine.

Speaker 1 (03:11):
Congratulation.

Speaker 4 (03:12):
Thank you so much.

Speaker 3 (03:13):
I'm telling everyone because I am really proud of myself,
Like that's awesome.

Speaker 4 (03:17):
It took me like a.

Speaker 3 (03:18):
Year and a half of being like I'm gonna quit,
I'm gonna quit, I'm gonna quit to finally do it,
and now I'm like right there. But I will say
these last couple of days, I've like woken up so
on the wrong side of the bed and I walked
outside of my apartment yesterday and my neighbor was outside
smoking a cigarette and he was like, do you want one?

Speaker 4 (03:35):
And I like started crying because I was like, yeah,
I do. But I also know that like.

Speaker 3 (03:40):
That quick fix isn't going to do anything, So like
how am I?

Speaker 4 (03:45):
I am doing good?

Speaker 3 (03:46):
I am grateful, happy, practicing, gratitude, all of that. But
like we sort of talked about like this day and age,
like with the things I see on my for you page,
not really heavy heavy good, but heavy good, but like
hopeful again to use my name, hopeful but aware.

Speaker 4 (04:08):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (04:09):
Yeah, I love that hopeful but aware.

Speaker 2 (04:11):
Oh my god, I totally get it, and like waking
up on the other side of the bed or under
the bed, because it's been happening to me as well.
I think it's just the energy has been very heavy
and having conversations like this help congratulations on that I
have a friend that right now is twenty three days
sober from alcohol and for her ride almost every day.

Speaker 1 (04:33):
She says, I get so emotional.

Speaker 2 (04:35):
I didn't realize it was a problem, and I just
I think a lot of people are becoming more aware.
And this is why I love this conversation because I'm like, Okay,
people are wanting I see more and more people younger
and younger becoming sober from alcohol, from.

Speaker 1 (04:51):
Cigarettes, from even sex.

Speaker 2 (04:54):
Yeah. So I think this is great. I think we're
going in the right direction. And that's what keeps me
hopeful because I'm like, there's so many things I don't
have control of. I need to have control of how
I react and what I decide to do with my body.

Speaker 1 (05:08):
And this is why I decided.

Speaker 2 (05:10):
I was like, we need to have her on the
podcast because and thank you for saying yes, by the way, duh, yeah.

Speaker 3 (05:16):
Thank you. I always like, I'm always so happy to
take because I'm sure as a host, like you are
so familiar with being in the seat of the question asker.
I'm in host mode so often it is nice to
switch rolls sometimes, you know.

Speaker 4 (05:30):
What I mean, Yeah, totally.

Speaker 1 (05:33):
And if you have questions for me too. You can
ask me whatever you want.

Speaker 3 (05:35):
Well, I was wonder Yeah, I'm like it's so funny
because like the words sober like it's you know, sober,
callie sober, boys sober, Like it's really entered the lexicon.

Speaker 4 (05:46):
And I think, like it is so of the moment to.

Speaker 3 (05:51):
Like be sober, you know, Like it's like all these
headlines are like worried about.

Speaker 4 (05:56):
Gen Z because they're like gen Z isn't partying? Da
da da.

Speaker 3 (05:59):
You know, Like I feel like I see a headline
like that all the time, but I'm wondering where you
are at with like that word and that are you
sober or you.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
Know what I was.

Speaker 2 (06:11):
I wasn't drinking alcohol. I wanted to just for health purposes.
And I just started recently drinking a little bit more.
And again my body's telling me you need to take
a break, and I know it, and I want to
be completely sober. It's just it's been a process. So
not doing like shows and stuff like that. I'm like, okay,

(06:34):
like my music shows, it helps me a lot, but
now I have a little bit more time to see
my friends and you know, you want to have a
hotel and then one.

Speaker 1 (06:41):
Becomes three, you know always.

Speaker 2 (06:43):
So I'm like, yes, I just want to sit there
and practice my willpower and really work it and just say,
you know what, no, I don't. I want to do
it because I want to do it, not because I
need it or I'm suppressing, you.

Speaker 3 (06:54):
Know, right well, it's just good to put things on
the shelf sometimes, like.

Speaker 4 (06:59):
Even if it's not.

Speaker 3 (07:00):
And every time I've ever like gone sober, given something up, whatever,
this is something that I think I a step, a
wrong step I took when it came to my whole
boy sober situation. I had a timeline and I actually
think like I was like, I'm going to do this
for a year, you know, And I actually think like

(07:23):
when I am most successful in giving something up to
like reevaluate my relationship with something, whether it's sex or
drinking or whatever, it's not having a timeline because if
you say a month, a week, a year, which a
year is too damn much, you know, like you're like
waiting to get to that finish line instead of like

(07:44):
every time I've been successful, it's been a thing of
like I will participate with this thing again when I
want to, you know, or like when I feel ready,
like when I feel like I've done the work, and
that is I think a healthier mindset, like, oh, let
me get past this finish line.

Speaker 2 (08:02):
I agree, yes, because I've done that. I'll do forty
day clanses. I'll do ninety day clanses and it works
and I feel great. But then when you get back
into it, you kind of forget in a weird way.
So it's like I think it's like a day thing.
It's like, you know, like I mean they do that,
I'm sure. And I've heard an AA where it's like, Okay,
it's just today today and you get through today. Well,

(08:23):
tell us about boy sober, though I do want to
tell us a little more.

Speaker 4 (08:27):
Yeah, thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (08:29):
You know.

Speaker 3 (08:29):
It's so interesting because the two year mark of like
really feeling like I need to give up men, give
up sex for a second will be October of this
year because I was like the whole thing was sort
of born out of like, oh, sober October, I think
I actually need to do this with sex, and you know,

(08:49):
almost two years ago. Now, the there's always an inciting
incident for me, like when I give something up, like
never am I ever Just like things have been chill, but.

Speaker 4 (09:00):
Me just detail of course, It's like it's like no.

Speaker 3 (09:03):
Like some people have been caught in my wake of
the wake of my chaos, you know. And I had
this amazing ex boyfriend who like was in love with me,
and I just like was, I don't know if that
you have this dog in you, but when someone loves me,
I'm like, you're insane, You're crazy, get away from me.

Speaker 4 (09:23):
Like that.

Speaker 3 (09:25):
That was the situation, and I just sort of realized, like, wait,
this guy loves me so much, and I'm like totally
not treating him right. And I do love him, I'm
just like not in love with him. But then I
was sort of asking myself this question of like why
am I sort of so self destructive? Why am I
so obsessed? Why is it that I have to hold

(09:48):
on to him when I know he's not the one?
And why do I chase people who I know don't
want me and run from people who I know do
Like it was just all of those things, and I
was thinking back. I was like thinking like, gosh, how
long have I been doing this? Like how long have
I been practicing these patterns?

Speaker 4 (10:10):
How long have I been doing this?

Speaker 3 (10:12):
Yeah? I started like being intimate with guys at like
thirteen in middle school, which is like too young, I
think in my like looking back and like, dang, like
sometimes I'm jealous of late bloomers because I'm like, you
guys got to like grow without like men and boys
like in your life, you know, were like in your

(10:34):
head kind of I'm like, who would I be, like
if I hadn't wasted like all of my time and
adolescents like freaking out about a guy.

Speaker 4 (10:43):
That who had this energy Totally, I'm like, what could
I have created? What could I have done? Like who
would I be now?

Speaker 3 (10:50):
And so I was just sort of like damn, Like
what I've been doing has not been working. Like what
I've been doing since I was thirteen has not been working,
you know. And since I was thirteen, I've been like
having sex whatever because I've always been like a sex
positive person and I'm from the South, which is like
a really Christian like I'm from the Bible bell you know,

(11:11):
and so like growing up, I was pretty like defiant
of the idea that women were better or more pure
or more worthy if they weren't sexual, like, and I
think I was really like resentful of that conversation.

Speaker 1 (11:24):
That makes sense, yeah, I get that totally.

Speaker 3 (11:27):
And so I've always been extremely sex positive, but I
think I had this realization where I was like, Okay,
like having sex and hooking up does not actually equal
like sexual empowerment. And I think there was a long
time where like that was sort of the headline for women,
like sleep with who you want.

Speaker 4 (11:46):
To sleep with?

Speaker 3 (11:47):
Hookup culture is okay, like you can have sex and
be independent and da da da da da, and like yes,
absolutely like and don't get me wrong, like I need
a man in my bed from time to time, you
know what I mean, you know, hold me and I'm yeah, hello,
like every now and again, like I'm only human, you know.
But I did just sort of have this realization where

(12:09):
I was like, Okay, maybe actually the sex I've been
having has not been empowering in the way that I
maybe wanted to believe that it was.

Speaker 2 (12:18):
Hmm, Okay, I totally understand. And see, here's the thing
let's just talk about because you're from New York, right,
So as you were speaking, I was thinking, like that
whole empowerment of having sex. I think of Miranda from
Sex City. I don't know if you ever watched it,
but she was just like she was successful, she knew
what she wanted, she was an independent woman. She was like,
I'm just gonna have sex because that's what it is.

(12:40):
And I get that and I respect that. But then
for me, if I would have saved myself a little longer,
I feel like I would have saved myself from a
lot of heartbreak.

Speaker 1 (12:50):
I wish I would have known.

Speaker 2 (12:52):
A lot younger that having sex is sacred, it should
be very We need to take care of who we
have sex with because it's energetic. And now I know
that after years of you know, yeah, you know, but
you get me. So this is why we're having these

(13:13):
conversations because I do think it's a beautiful thing to
take the time and to pause and correct me if
I'm wrong, if this is what you're doing where you're like, okay, wait,
I want to pause and work on myself and really
figure out why I've been doing this and heal my
inner child. And and you know, cause I feel like
I'm on that journey right now, like healing my inner child.

Speaker 1 (13:33):
And I thought I was done with learning never.

Speaker 3 (13:37):
And that's like back to sort of like the fake
finish line of like the finish line is not there.

Speaker 4 (13:43):
Like I hate to get dark, but like the finish
line is like truly death, like you know what I mean.
I'm like we will be like true.

Speaker 3 (13:49):
I'm like until the day we leave this earth and
pass over or whatever you believe in, like after this
this experience of life like that is when you're learning stops.
That's when you're trying stops, like you can even think
about it, like working out, you know. I feel like
sometimes we think about working out like oh, I only
need to do this for ninety days so I can

(14:09):
lose ten pounds and then I don't have to do
it anymore. But lifestyle, yes, it is a con It's
like you will have you have to upkeep forever emotionally, spiritually.
Something I'm wondering is like, what were the conversations around
like sex and love and men for you growing up?

Speaker 1 (14:31):
Growing up?

Speaker 2 (14:32):
I think because I was also raised in a Christian home,
and I it was you have sex before marriage and
you're going to hell and instead of me, obviously I was.
I was scared, but then it also made me more
curious or I can't do this, Oh I kind of
want to try it. That's where I'm like, I don't
want to implement fear. It's just this is a choice,

(14:53):
you know. So for me growing up, I'm like, it's
kind of sneaky and I would get like, you know,
some type of ex with doing things I wasn't supposed
to do because there was so much control in my household.

Speaker 3 (15:05):
Duh, it's rebellious and of course, and because also it's
like it's a thing that is natural. It's like you're
a teenager, like duh, like your hormones, your brain, like whatever,
your crushes, Like, nothing is more intense than when you're sixteen,

(15:26):
and that's everything, you know what I mean. That's like happiness, sadness,
like you're so like you're that's like the era that
your brain is in is it's like experience everything really intensely.
And so what frustrated me, like looking back and thinking
about all of this and sort of reevaluating where to
hold sex in my life is like there is good

(15:46):
reason to not have sex, but the reason is not purity.
The reason is not to save yourself. The reason is
not to avoid hell, Like, the reason is to like
be with yourself and understand that you are making a
choice in again sort of like empowerment, not like in
a choice of scarcity or fear or Yeah, that's just

(16:11):
something that I had to like pull apart. I think,
like to separate, sort of like the Christian shame of
it and like the actual goodness of just like taking
a breather and waiting, yes, you.

Speaker 4 (16:24):
Know, yeah?

Speaker 2 (16:25):
And are you are you deciding to? Like is there
a moment? Is there there's no timeline? Is you're waiting
for the right person? Are you waiting till marriage?

Speaker 1 (16:33):
Have we all know?

Speaker 4 (16:35):
I am not waiting till marriage. I don't think I'll
ever get married.

Speaker 3 (16:38):
I'm like, oh, God, like, I don't know about you,
but marriage for me, I'm like, I don't know.

Speaker 4 (16:46):
My parents are divorced.

Speaker 1 (16:47):
And so I just I was so scared of marriage.

Speaker 4 (16:50):
Yeah, are you okay?

Speaker 3 (16:52):
Wait?

Speaker 4 (16:52):
Are you married? I should?

Speaker 1 (16:53):
I am married?

Speaker 4 (16:53):
Okay? And how and how is it?

Speaker 2 (16:56):
I had to go through a lot of shit to
be honest. I So you know when earlier you said,
have you ever felt like, oh, I don't deserve this person,
this person like I don't love you the way you
love me. I felt like that with my partner for
a long time and until I needed to heal some
really deep things that I was ignoring, and then I

(17:18):
was ready to receive love and that I mean, that's
after going I've already I've been divorced this guy, you know,
so okay, okay, and I after that first one, I
was like, I don't ever want to get married again.
I don't want to think about having kids, like I
I'm good, I'm chilling. That traumatized the hell out of me,

(17:39):
but I had I had to learn and unlearn a
lot of things like your hat said about myself and
about what I wanted and didn't want. But before then,
because I experienced so much separation and divorce in my
family with my mother, I was like, f.

Speaker 4 (17:54):
This, like totally you know.

Speaker 2 (17:56):
And even then it was I was fine with not
getting married. But my husband was kind of like, hey,
like I've never been married, and like I now I
really want to marry you, and I'm like, okay, cool,
Like but he's a great guy. Honestly, I have We're good,
we're chilling. It's not perfect, but it's a lot better
from than when I than where I come from.

Speaker 3 (18:16):
Like a relationship, there's just absolutely no way a relationship
can be perfect because you're two humans, and to be
human is like not it's to not be perfect, you know.

Speaker 4 (18:25):
Yeah, I wanted to ask you.

Speaker 3 (18:27):
I've been thinking a lot about healing, you know, and
like how to really do it because I think one
of the things that happened with me and the whole
boy Sober.

Speaker 4 (18:37):
Journey the moment online.

Speaker 3 (18:41):
Is it was really a moment of healing for me,
and I was like sharing it with the public and retrospectively,
I'm like, Okay, I don't know if that is something
I would suggest to like heal something so vulnerable, like,
because I did sort of realize like along the way,
like oh, that's why AA is anonymous, you know.

Speaker 4 (19:04):
What I mean, Like when you're like, yeah.

Speaker 3 (19:06):
When you're trying to give something up and really sort
of like reckon with addiction or bad habits or whatever,
inviting in public opinion is just like tricky territory. It's
decided because the exciting thing about it was like so
many women resonated with it, right, So it's like there

(19:27):
are so many women who felt really seen and were
inspired to like take a moment to learn about themselves
to reevaluate. But I think along the way, I was like, Okay,
I think I need.

Speaker 4 (19:41):
A little bit of privacy to heal.

Speaker 3 (19:44):
And so over the last maybe like couple of months,
I've been like healing in sort of a different way.

Speaker 4 (19:51):
Yes, And so I wanted to just ask.

Speaker 3 (19:53):
You about like your process of healing, you know what
I mean, like give me advice please?

Speaker 1 (19:59):
So no, Yeah, I got you.

Speaker 2 (20:00):
It's I totally understand because I think in the position
that we're in and you've shared, and you're being vulnerable
and you're sharing your experience and everything, I think there's
a lot of strength in that, and it also helps
you heal to share it, right, But you also are
exposing yourself to people's opinion and we have to be
ready for that. That's that, right, That helps, That's a

(20:22):
part of healing. But you also do need Now that's
what I'm doing as well this year, and I'm choosing
to step back and share certain things, but share them
after the fact, not what I'm going through it.

Speaker 1 (20:34):
I had to go and.

Speaker 2 (20:35):
Kind of do a retreat, a spiritual retreat where I'm like,
I need to spend time with myself and stop worrying
about It's good because it keeps us accountable with having
our social media, you know, Okay, it keeps us accountable
with our process, but also that privacy. There's something with
silence and just thinking and encountering yourself that is life changing.

(20:55):
And I think that's where you are, and I think
that's exactly how and just I mean, I'm sure you
know this, but what you're doing and you're like, Okay,
I need some time, I'm gonna chill. I'm gonna like
be private. That's your intuition and you gotta just freaking
follow it and not feel pressured, you.

Speaker 3 (21:11):
Know, totally to absolutely listen to your intuition. You want
to know what like to be totally honest, like, I'm
still in the thick of figuring out how to like
separate myself from like how to stop being so obsessed
with men. It's been like a two year. It's like
so embarrassing that I'm like, I mean, as we said

(21:31):
again and again and again, like it's a lifetime project.
But like a couple of months ago, like honestly, I've
had to like sort of restart the process because it
became so I had this crush where I was just
like everything I was doing, I was posting on my
Instagram story for him, I was like up just like

(21:53):
everything was a casting the net you know what I mean,
every song I listened to, I was thinking about him,
every movie that came on, and like, I was on
a dance floor dancing, and I was like, if he
could see me right now? Like everything, Yeah, I'm like
you like, out with my friends on a dance floor,
nowhere in sight.

Speaker 4 (22:13):
He's nowhere in sight and I'm like, if he could
only see me, you know.

Speaker 1 (22:18):
So that's the seeking validation part.

Speaker 3 (22:20):
No, right, Like what is that? And like so then
I finally sort of asked him. I was like, I
texted him and I was like, what do you want
from me? You know?

Speaker 4 (22:30):
And he said nothing, Oh my gosh.

Speaker 3 (22:35):
No.

Speaker 4 (22:36):
In the moment.

Speaker 3 (22:36):
First of all, I was drunk off bottomless mimosas, Like
you talk about one, two, three drinks like I'm sober
sober again, like from drinking because bottomless mimosas will absolutely
do it to me, like will absolutely make me act.

Speaker 4 (22:49):
In a way where I have to maybe take a second.

Speaker 1 (22:53):
And you're a.

Speaker 3 (22:54):
Bartender, yeah, which is so funny.

Speaker 4 (22:57):
No, I know.

Speaker 2 (22:58):
I mean, you know you're practicing your power, You're really
exercising it there.

Speaker 3 (23:02):
Bartenders are like one of two things. Either alcoholics are
recovering alcoholics. Like, if I'm being honest, oh, after that rejection.
First of all, I think rejection is a really good thing,
you know, especially.

Speaker 1 (23:15):
It is God's protection.

Speaker 3 (23:17):
That's okay, yes, write it down. I'm like no, literally,
like okay, I love the way that you just said that,
because he has actually been sneaking back into my mind's eye,
and you're right.

Speaker 4 (23:31):
Like rejection is protection.

Speaker 3 (23:33):
Like I have to really work so hard to be
like keep him like at a safe distance, you know.
But after that rejection, I have, I think started like
a new process of healing where I am like that's
why I gave up drinking, I've given up weed, I've
given up nicotine, and I'm like really trying to just

(23:54):
feel everything, which is not, oh my.

Speaker 4 (23:58):
God, not easy.

Speaker 3 (23:59):
Like I started going to yoga for the first time
in my life, and my yoga instructor, like when we
laid down at the end to just breathe, it was
like the first time I had been in my body
I felt like in a really long time, and I
just like fully started crying on that mat, just like
fully like.

Speaker 1 (24:17):
You're feeling, oh my god, yeah, this is great. So
is it? Alcohol and weed and everything? Also thirty two
days or is it okay?

Speaker 4 (24:24):
Thank you for asking.

Speaker 3 (24:26):
I'm like fifty five days no weed, no alcohol, and
I'm like thirty two days no nicotine. And it's like again,
it's this thing of like who knows how long this
is because I'm not like an aa girl, like like
I've never almost lost my life or something from my addiction.

(24:48):
It's it's just like the chaos that's brought into my
life is not always worth it. So I don't know
for how long or when or where. I think it
again just goes back to like, Okay, I feel like
I've done the work, And.

Speaker 2 (25:09):
Do you feel better like mentally, like do you have
more mental clarity? Because I know emotionally a lot is happening,
and I get that because it's only normal.

Speaker 3 (25:17):
First of all, I've been angry, Like I think anger
is like a difficult emotion, especially maybe for women, like
we're really not allowed to be angry. Like in my
house growing up, like being polite and being nice and
being soft was absolutely the most important thing a woman
could do. A girl could do, like to be any

(25:40):
kind of like harsh or mean or.

Speaker 1 (25:42):
A ladylike I got that so.

Speaker 3 (25:44):
Much, absolutely absolutely, and like you know, what there is
something absolutely like important to being sweet, like to being polite,
like I like to be polite and kind, but it
tips it into sort of like making yourself small too often,

(26:06):
you know what I'm saying, Like, yeah, there's a very
fine line.

Speaker 2 (26:11):
Yes, I think being soft and being ladylike is great,
you know, but then there's also like being unapologetically yourself,
like yes, someone is treating you unfairly, or someone's doing
something that you don't appreciate it. I think that's where
you use your voice and like, hey, it's all how
we deliver our message. I say that a lot on
the podcast. I've been trying to find that balance because

(26:33):
I get you from that type of background. It say, wait, okay,
I'll just stay quiet, and then we suppress so much
and it's not good for us.

Speaker 3 (26:41):
Yes, I agree completely, and so has it been good
for me? Like I have actually been loving the anger
I've been feeling, Like I'm like, uh, I don't want
to smoke cigarettes right now, because I just like anger
is like a signal, right, Like yeah, it's not it's
like a secondary emotion whatever. And it's like to be

(27:03):
angry with someone is not productive, Like there's a great
book by this woman who was like a psychologist in
the really popular psychologist in like the eighties, and it's
called The Dance of Anger, and it talks a lot
about how like, yeah, when you're using your anger like
in relation with someone, it's not exactly productive, right because

(27:23):
we're like we're lashing out, we're taking swings. We're not
really in sort of like fix negotiate mode.

Speaker 4 (27:32):
We're just like in burn it all down mode, you know.

Speaker 3 (27:36):
Yeah, But like the anger, I've been feeling like I've
enjoyed it because I'm like, you know what, like there's
a fucking lot to be angry about right now, Like
there's like so much.

Speaker 2 (27:48):
And I love that you're being honest and you're being vulnerable,
because yes, that's the truth, right, It's life, guys, totally.
It's rollercoaster of emotions.

Speaker 3 (27:56):
Yes, absolutely, And it's not a matter of like not
feeling it. It's just a matter of like, okay, where
do you go with it now?

Speaker 1 (28:06):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (28:07):
So yeah, And I've learned now now that i'm older,
being part you know, I feel like I can now
say I'm myself, whether people like it or not when
people ask me, how are you doing today?

Speaker 1 (28:17):
I'm like, you know what, I'm in a bad mood today? Yeah,
me too good?

Speaker 2 (28:20):
You know I don't, Yeah, you know, because I've caught
myself doing that in the past, where oh I'm good
because I have to keep it all together because everything's fine,
and that's what I was taught, Like, oh no, I'm
not great today and that's yeah.

Speaker 3 (28:36):
No, I think it's actually too like so much relief
to it. I mean, every emotion is universal, you know
what I mean. We all are walking around with like
the big the big emotion sadness, joy, anger or whatever,
and like when somebody really kind of opens that door
of honesty, like it's such a relief. Like I'm sure

(28:57):
you experienced this too, Like if you say to someone like, damn,
you know, today's actually been kind of tough. I feel
like I always feel like a like a an ex
hel you know what I mean, like a like a
relief when I say that to somebody, because it's like wait, yeah, no,
like things are not always perfect.

Speaker 1 (29:17):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2 (29:19):
I think I can probably tell you now that I'm
one thing that I feel like i'm pretty sober of
is people pleasing.

Speaker 3 (29:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (29:29):
You just get to an age where You're just like,
f this totally how I really feel.

Speaker 2 (29:34):
But what has been the feedback you've received from men
and women? Has it been more from one side than
the other. And do you feel like people are more
voice sober because of you?

Speaker 3 (29:46):
Okay, absolutely people are voicober because of me, because like
I'll get these dms or like these comments.

Speaker 4 (29:52):
Yeah, like it.

Speaker 3 (29:54):
That is what makes it absolutely so worth it to me,
like as somebody who is like somewhat in the public eye,
you know what I mean. The thing that I love
the most about it is when I get to hear
somebody say like, oh, I kind of changed my life
in this way for the better, because you.

Speaker 4 (30:15):
Know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (30:16):
Yes, And I've gotten a couple of comments from girls
or I'll like I'll get one maybe like once a
month or every so often of them being like, oh
I went boysover because of you and like my life
is so much yeah.

Speaker 4 (30:27):
And so to know that.

Speaker 3 (30:29):
Those stories are out there is like absolutely make so
much of it worth it to me. The feedback from
a men is two sided. It's like I think a
lot of men do not know how to be alone.

Speaker 1 (30:44):
For sure.

Speaker 4 (30:44):
I went to the beach by myself the other day,
which I love to do. I'm like, I love a
solo beach day.

Speaker 1 (30:49):
That is so cool, you know, I love I love
solo dates.

Speaker 3 (30:52):
Like I did to right, and but like going to
the beach is like such a spiritual thing for me,
kind of like the water, the ocean whatever, like the
salt sand, you know.

Speaker 1 (31:01):
Yeah, what's your sign? Sorry, I'm sorry to interrupt you.

Speaker 4 (31:03):
I just needn't know I'm a cancer.

Speaker 1 (31:05):
I freaking knew what I was talking.

Speaker 2 (31:08):
I was like, dude, I feel so much of this
girl's energy.

Speaker 1 (31:11):
I'm a cancer.

Speaker 4 (31:11):
To June twenty six, you're lying, is it yours too?
Fuck offline?

Speaker 1 (31:18):
If you're swear, we're gonna fuck off together. Oh my god, guys,
they're so crazy. I did not know this.

Speaker 4 (31:25):
June twenty six, Well, I have butterflies right now. I
have butterflies.

Speaker 1 (31:29):
I was like, I was like, she's so where at
the ocean and how it heals her?

Speaker 3 (31:32):
And this.

Speaker 1 (31:32):
I was like, she has to be a cancer.

Speaker 3 (31:34):
Yes, okay, we're like we're kindred spirits.

Speaker 4 (31:38):
That's amazing.

Speaker 3 (31:39):
I love to hear this because also, a June cancer
is different than a July cancer, Like June cancer's customers
like say.

Speaker 4 (31:46):
That we're different. Sorry, we're just so different.

Speaker 1 (31:50):
I'm sorry we are.

Speaker 3 (31:52):
But the thing was was like I was looking around
and I was like, oh my gosh, there are like
so many women here like doing that thing, like being alone,
enjoying their time, thinking whatever.

Speaker 4 (32:04):
And they were like no men there.

Speaker 3 (32:05):
And I do think I don't know if it's cultural
permission or I don't know if it's just like women
are so often hurt by men that.

Speaker 4 (32:12):
We have had to figure out how to like process
things on our own. But I don't think men know
how to do it.

Speaker 3 (32:19):
So I've had a few guys in my DMS and
my comments or even friends in my life who have
been like, you know, i've been girl sober for a while,
or like I feel like I need to be because
they're like addicted to the romantic validation as well, or
they don't know how to deal with things without a woman.
And I know a lot of times in like cis

(32:40):
kind of hetero female male relationships whatever, like a woman
does a lot of the emotional processing for the man.

Speaker 4 (32:47):
We will often this is.

Speaker 3 (32:49):
Another thing that psychologist Harriet Lerner talks about. It's like
we will overproduce emotionally for them, and then like we'll
get exhausted doing it and then they like underproduce and
and it's actually like we're doing the work for them,
and even though we're mad that we're doing it, it's
like both parties are sort of like this is how

(33:10):
we process. It's like cultural stuff and who's allowed to
do what and all of that. But I just think
that like so many men, they don't have the same
sort of structures to be alone, and they don't know
how to like and they do have the sort of
patriarchal structures like more money, more this, more that, but

(33:31):
emotionally they do not have the same wherewithal so a
lot of men have reached out being sort of like
I need to learn how to do this, I need
to know how to do this.

Speaker 4 (33:43):
And then totally and then the other side.

Speaker 3 (33:47):
Of it is like I have never in my life
had more men in my DMS than the time I
was like publicly being like I'm giving up men, I'm celibate,
I'm this, I'm that. The boys we're going out they
were freaks for it.

Speaker 1 (34:03):
Of course for it.

Speaker 2 (34:05):
Yeah, I'm sure it made them real horny.

Speaker 1 (34:08):
Yes, I want to be the one to break it
like they.

Speaker 3 (34:12):
Love that so like I will sometimes tell girls, I'm like, absolutely,
you should like take that off the table if you
want it yus like so often like if you sneaky
want somebody up in.

Speaker 4 (34:26):
Those dms, just let everybody know you've given up on men,
like somebody will come knocking on your door. So that's
been like the reaction they love challenges.

Speaker 2 (34:38):
Yes, And do you feel the pressure of having to
keep this up because people are kind of counting on
you or how have you like processed that part of it?

Speaker 4 (34:55):
Wow?

Speaker 3 (34:55):
Thank you so much for asking. There was a ton
of pressure at the beginning. The first sort of headline
to come out about it, when it moved from sorry
traffic outside is excus sorry, I know, right, thank you.
When the first headline came out about it, it was
all about celibacy, and that made me feel a lot

(35:19):
of pressure. I think emotionally internally I got like pretty
small and I'm angry and sort of resentful.

Speaker 4 (35:29):
But I was trying to like keep on keeping on,
keep on keeping on.

Speaker 3 (35:33):
And at some point that just sort of like came
to a head, you know, And it wasn't a question
of like if I felt like I should keep it
up or shouldn't.

Speaker 4 (35:45):
It was just that like I couldn't really anymore.

Speaker 3 (35:49):
Yeah, because maybe you get this as like sister zodiac signs,
as cancers. It's like we do like a little attention,
a little light, a little something, but like ultimately, like
I want to like hide in my shell sometimes, you know.
And it feels sometimes disingenuous to be someone who's online

(36:09):
and who also says like I don't always love the attention,
but it was definitely just something I had to adjust to.

Speaker 4 (36:18):
Yeah, yeah, And as.

Speaker 3 (36:20):
Like a girl from the South, like you said, who's
always been told to be polite, and as like a
chronic people pleaser, internalizing all of those like messages and
comments and ideas and who says what and how to Honestly,
the whole voiceover project idea journey was like a reckoning
with how to trust my intuition and not do the

(36:45):
dance for everybody, like, oh, you think it should be
about this, Oh you should think it should be about that.
You think I'm cheating if I flirt with a guy
at a bar, So maybe it is, you know what
I mean? Like, and you know, I invited that, like
I invited the public sort of debate, which it was
like fun and cool and exciting, but it did just

(37:05):
reach a moment where, like I sort of said earlier,
like let me take a minute.

Speaker 4 (37:11):
To see like what this actually is for me.

Speaker 2 (37:14):
Yeah, you know, yes, you have to kind of just
go back and say, Okay, wait, this is why I'm
doing it. This is the reason why, And I tell
you that's what keeps it going, you know, right, And that's
what I want to tell people to say, Okay, this
is your journey, and everyone's journey is different, and if
you find this incredible dude tomorrow and you feel it,
then that's what it's going to be.

Speaker 1 (37:32):
And we don't know.

Speaker 2 (37:32):
That's why I think it's beautiful that we're like we're
not putting a timeline. It's just I'm going to know,
you know.

Speaker 3 (37:38):
Because also, like the unfortunate truth is like I am.

Speaker 4 (37:42):
Always with me.

Speaker 3 (37:43):
So even if I take two, three, four years away
from sex and dating and men, if I become a nun,
if I join a monastery, whatever, like some dude can
come back in my life and the potential of it
all unraveling is there.

Speaker 4 (37:58):
Like do you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (37:59):
Like we are always with us and so just like, yeah,
understanding that, Like, as people always say, healing is not linear,
like and every era of life is going to bring
you something new, Like I'm twenty nine now, who knows
what I'm gonna need when I'm thirty nine, when I'm
forty nine, when I'm fifty nine. I'm like, we don't

(38:21):
know those versions of ourselves and we have no idea
what's true today won't be true then or whatever.

Speaker 1 (38:29):
So yeah, yeah, and you're not dating at all, right, or.

Speaker 3 (38:33):
Yeah, I tried, like, first of all, full transparency.

Speaker 4 (38:37):
I'm like, I need a man to pay for my
dinner these days.

Speaker 3 (38:39):
I'm like, in it's right now, Hey, yeah, hello, and
Trump's America.

Speaker 4 (38:45):
I'm like, I'm broke and I need a man to
pay for my dinner.

Speaker 3 (38:48):
And so the other day, like I let a guy
take me on a day and he paid for my dinner.

Speaker 4 (38:54):
I would love your opinion on this because he.

Speaker 3 (38:58):
Was talking about his ex girlfriend the entire time, and
I'm like, red flag, here's my thing. If you mentioned
your girlfriend, if it comes up briefly, no bigs, We've
all been with other people. I get it, But you
talk about her on our way to the date, you
talk about her at the date, you talk about her
after the date.

Speaker 4 (39:19):
It's a red flag.

Speaker 1 (39:20):
It is he's probably still in love.

Speaker 3 (39:23):
And I told him, I said hey, I said, hey,
it's a red flag that you kept talking about your girlfriend.

Speaker 4 (39:29):
On the date or your ex.

Speaker 3 (39:31):
And he was like, oh, I actually think it's more
of an orange flag whatever.

Speaker 4 (39:35):
But this is what I.

Speaker 3 (39:36):
Want your opinion on because I'm like, he's a freak
to me.

Speaker 4 (39:40):
I'm like, it's a no for me. It's no for me.

Speaker 1 (39:42):
It's not ready to date.

Speaker 2 (39:44):
And yeah, you can mention her, oh I just got
out of a long relationship or whatever the case may be.
But talking about her the entire time, I think he
has some unresolved emotions that he needs to resolve before
he invites another person.

Speaker 4 (39:57):
In his life.

Speaker 3 (39:58):
And that is my thing is like this is you know,
like snow white Cinderella situation, Like I do not have
my broom. I am not there to like, you know,
clean up whatever mess is still going on with you.

Speaker 4 (40:09):
So am I dating. Here's the thing.

Speaker 3 (40:11):
Last week, literally last week, I was like, let me try.
And then I gave him a couple of chances because
the day after our date, he brought coffee to my
door the next morning, and I was like, that's nice.
That's a green flag. But then it just sort of
kept being like red flag, red flag. Like he's one
of those guys that likes.

Speaker 4 (40:31):
To tickle peep girls.

Speaker 3 (40:33):
And he was like tickling me in a flirtatious way
and I said please stop, and then he didn't stop.

Speaker 1 (40:38):
Ah, that's another red flag.

Speaker 4 (40:40):
No red flag. Da da da da da.

Speaker 3 (40:43):
I was like the whole thing crashed and burned. And
so now I'm in this headspace of just like, actually,
I do kind of think it's time for me just
to like take a second on the bench again, because
and what I said to him is I was just like,
I'm just not ready to be someone's girlfriend. Yeah, and
I do not want to be in a situationship. That's
one thing that the whole voysover thing has taught me

(41:05):
is like I am not a situationship girl. I'm like
not interested, can't handle it. It makes me crazy.

Speaker 4 (41:13):
Same.

Speaker 2 (41:14):
I need clarity, I need ability. I'm sorry because it's
like no, I'm with you. Yeah, one foot in, one
foot out does not work for me. And I think
this being sober has taught you so much about yourself,
and I did a little small one, not two years,
but I tell the six month thing before I met
my parson, And that's what it taught me. The most
of it was like, I know, I want something serious and

(41:36):
that's okay. Like I am a monogamous person. I like that,
and I'm going to just not share my body and
my lips are in any way with the mel until I'm.

Speaker 1 (41:46):
Completely ready for it. But it taught me so much
about myself.

Speaker 4 (41:50):
Well, that's the thing.

Speaker 3 (41:51):
It's like when you are alone, when you are taking
time away from it all, like you do not have
to bend or or adjust. And I do just think
like women who are just like kind and loving, like
we want to what's the word compromise, it's like to love,

(42:13):
like to be in a relationship. To be with someone
is to compromise, because it's like a relationship is two people. Yeah,
but like being alone, I don't think enough of us
have spent the time alone to figure out what it
is we want before the compromise.

Speaker 1 (42:28):
Mm hmmm, absolutely one hundred percent. And you know what
this is.

Speaker 2 (42:32):
I think this is a perfect opportunity for you to
speak to my listeners, if you would please just tell
them if they are thinking about it, give them some
tips as to how to go about it. And when
maybe like an indication that's like Okay, maybe I need
to try this something that maybe will be recurring.

Speaker 1 (42:52):
I don't know any type of advice that you may have.

Speaker 3 (42:54):
Well. The one of the things that also made me
think like, holy cow, let me like take some time
away from this is I realized like a lot of
women in my life were talking to me on the phone,
like my sister's long distance friendships whatever. We'd have these
thirty minute conversations on the phone, and they would talk

(43:15):
about the man in their life that's causing them heartbreak
or havoc or whatever. They would talk to about them
our entire conversation, and I just thought, like, what a
waste of time, Like we're not talking about each other,
We're not learning anything about each other. So I think
if you find yourself wasting so much time just talking

(43:35):
to people you love about a man that is like
not serving you, it's like maybe you need to let
that go. And you do not have to be a
serial monogamist to sort of like be obsessed with someone.

Speaker 4 (43:50):
And also you are not always single. When you say
you're single.

Speaker 3 (43:56):
For a long time, I said to myself, I'm single,
but I was all ways texting someone obsessed with someone,
like somebody was taking up space in my mind.

Speaker 2 (44:08):
Or you needed that or I need it. Yes, you
need that in order to feel good.

Speaker 4 (44:14):
Yes, literally, or just to feel something.

Speaker 3 (44:18):
That's the thing too, It's like, how good are you
really feeling in these like situationships. It's like I think
we go towards them because you feel something, and to
feel something is to like, you know, it's nice to
even if your heart broken, it's like the you know,
that's like the delicious thing about love is like your
heart broken and then they lift you back up and

(44:40):
it's just like that roller coaster that we like to ride,
you know.

Speaker 1 (44:43):
That becomes addicting totally.

Speaker 4 (44:46):
The high and the loonere course.

Speaker 3 (44:48):
Yes, yeah, And so like I guess those are the
things I would say if you are to like maybe
consider giving up. It's like if you're finding yourself more
upse sessive than you are enjoying, you know, and if
you find yourself like wasting time talking about someone who

(45:09):
is not serving you too much to people who are
in your life that do love you and do want
to be with you. It's like when we become obsessed
with a romantic thing, it's like we can't even see
our friends, like even when they're with us, you know
what I'm saying, Like you're not even there with them
because you're like on your phone thinking about someone else.

Speaker 4 (45:28):
So yeah, and then just like be honest with yourself
about that.

Speaker 3 (45:31):
I mean, right, what is it that they say, Like
to change something, you have to admit it first.

Speaker 4 (45:37):
Like let yourself.

Speaker 3 (45:40):
Like it is okay if you've got a little bit
of something you need to change, Like we said, we
all do.

Speaker 4 (45:48):
We all do.

Speaker 3 (45:50):
And so it's like be open to understanding what you
need to work on, Like don't don't let your pride,
don't let anything.

Speaker 4 (45:59):
Sort of get in the way.

Speaker 3 (46:00):
Like because also, and this is a cliche too, you
are the only person you can change. Like you want
a man to change, You want men to change, You
want something else to change, anything outside of you, not
your business, not your circus.

Speaker 4 (46:15):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (46:16):
Like love that.

Speaker 4 (46:18):
I'm preaching now, I love.

Speaker 1 (46:19):
It, love it, go go girl.

Speaker 3 (46:24):
No, But I'm like, you are the person who is
in charge of like the steps you're taking.

Speaker 2 (46:34):
I need to send this episode to a friend of
mine who just has so much casual sex right the
amount of times that she texted me and is like,
I feel so lonely and why do these guys just
want me for sex and they just use me? And
I'm like, you need to stop. I was like, practice
abstinence and just love yourself and just say I don't

(46:56):
need this. You need to get to a point where
it's like if you need the validation, and was like,
I need a man to love me and want me
in order to love myself. That's a huge problem in
my opinion. Absolutely you want that because not because you
need it, because you want it, Like it's like absolutely,
That's why I feel it's an issue.

Speaker 3 (47:15):
Well, and something else I'm kind of thinking about is
like the comparison again to sort of like the whole
drinking of it all.

Speaker 4 (47:21):
If we're like, if we're comparing.

Speaker 3 (47:23):
Like sex to alcohol whatever, there are some people who
can have a drink and enjoy that glass of wine,
and then there are other people who are like really
using that as like an escape. And I think what
sex can be for so many people is it's it's never.
I don't want to say never, but often it is
not about the sex.

Speaker 4 (47:44):
It's like that.

Speaker 3 (47:44):
We're looking for closeness, right, Like even if we tell
ourselves like, oh, I don't need anything from them, I
don't need any of this, I don't need anything of that,
I do think it's that is really hard to do
in practice. Yeah, it's like I was saying earlier, you
want it to be an empowering thing. It's like I'm
empowered by this. I'm having sex because I want to.

(48:06):
It's like be real, like like be real with yourself,
you know, and it is okay, and you are not
bad and you can still be a feminist and you
can still be in power and understand that like you
are using something for something other than what it is.

(48:28):
You know.

Speaker 4 (48:29):
Yep, okay, but wait my advice to actually give it
up because I get it. It's not easy.

Speaker 3 (48:35):
First of all, there will be an inciting incident, you
know what I mean, Like there's there's a guy, there's
a night, there's a situation where you wake up the
next morning or that night or whenever, and you're like shit,
Like I was out of alignment with myself on that
and I have been left in a place that is
not leaving me where I want to be. I think,

(48:57):
like you just have to take those moments seriously and
then ask yourself, like.

Speaker 4 (49:01):
How long do I want to be doing this.

Speaker 3 (49:04):
I'm lucky because I'm the youngest of four kids, right, Like,
I've got three older siblings, and so I have been
able to watch them mess up in a way that
I can take notes about, you know what I'm saying, Like.

Speaker 1 (49:17):
That's what my younger siblings say.

Speaker 4 (49:19):
Yep, totally.

Speaker 3 (49:20):
And so it's like the thing is is like as
humans is like we really can go the rest of
our lives like doing the thing that is not good
for us, right. And you might think like, oh, I'll
change when i'm thirty. Oh I'll change when I have kids.
Oh I'll change.

Speaker 4 (49:34):
Da da da da dah.

Speaker 3 (49:36):
But it's like the matter of the fact is like
you could go forever doing this thing.

Speaker 4 (49:41):
Yeah, And so it's like maybe just like.

Speaker 1 (49:44):
You got to recognize it.

Speaker 3 (49:45):
Recognize that, and also recognize that like time is so precious.

Speaker 1 (49:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (49:50):
My best friend, one of my best friends, she says
this all the time. Is just like yeah, like time
is something you cannot get back. And if you're wasting
your time spinning your wheel about like who you've slept with.
I don't know, get that time back. What are you
going to do with it? And so how do you
actually give it up?

Speaker 4 (50:09):
Be real with.

Speaker 3 (50:10):
Yourself about how much time you're wasting on it. And
also like get into other things that you think you
can enjoy, like find pleasure in other things. And the
people who have problems with like having sex, that is
maybe like leaving us feeling emotionally you know, empty.

Speaker 4 (50:33):
Like just a wreck. Whatever is like we are looking
for escape.

Speaker 3 (50:38):
We've got something going on, something in our childhood, something
in our life.

Speaker 4 (50:42):
Maybe you looked at your four you page for too
long and that has like say you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (50:46):
Like that it's so right, Like like I said, plenty
of reason to be angry these days, plenty of reason
to look for escape these days.

Speaker 4 (50:53):
But like find your escape in something else. I don't
know what it could be.

Speaker 3 (50:59):
Maybe it's going to the movies for an hour and
a half, right, totally, Like maybe it's going to the
beach for a day by yourself.

Speaker 4 (51:06):
You can find something else. It's just gonna take a
little bit.

Speaker 1 (51:09):
Of work, yes, and it takes time to figure it out, yes.

Speaker 4 (51:12):
Right, And don't put a timeline on it.

Speaker 1 (51:14):
That's a good one. That's a great advice.

Speaker 3 (51:16):
Do not put a timeline on it. Do not say
I'm going to give up men for a week. I'm
going to give up men for a month. Day by day,
today I am noticing what I like when I'm alone. Today,
I am noticing how many times I look at my
phone and wish I had a man texting me, Like
I could say this to myself. Today I checked my

(51:37):
Instagram story views six times for the same name.

Speaker 4 (51:40):
You know what I'm saying, like like.

Speaker 1 (51:43):
Like get you.

Speaker 3 (51:44):
You just gotta like clock stuff like that and be
easy on yourself. I'm not quick to call myself an expert.
It's just that, like I am in the trenches with everybody.
Oh there was something else I wanted to say, but
I think I've lost it.

Speaker 4 (51:59):
That's all right, that's all right.

Speaker 2 (52:01):
Oh my gosh, I'm sorry. But they can also hear
your podcast. They can listen to your podcast called voiceover.

Speaker 3 (52:07):
H Yes, voiceover on iHeart. Yes, it's been good. It's
a fun podcast.

Speaker 4 (52:14):
I'm very lucky to work with like a group of
girls who are just.

Speaker 3 (52:18):
Like brilliant and dedicated and sharp and it's yeah, it's
a good time.

Speaker 1 (52:24):
That's awesome.

Speaker 2 (52:25):
So guys, make sure you tune in to her podcast
called Voiceover, and also if you could share where they
can find you in social media, all that good stuff.

Speaker 3 (52:33):
Yes, my Instagram handle is just Hopeen spelled h O
P I n along and yeah, thank you. I came
up with that as a freshman in high school.

Speaker 4 (52:44):
Oh you right now? Oh my god? Okay, good good,
I'll follow you back here.

Speaker 3 (52:49):
And the podcast Instagram is just boysober dot Pod.

Speaker 1 (52:56):
I love that.

Speaker 4 (52:56):
Yeah, easy, easy, easy, gosh.

Speaker 1 (52:59):
I really we enjoyed this conversation. I need to are
a ray of light.

Speaker 2 (53:03):
Your energy is awesome. I wish this thing he was
a person. But hopefully soon I'll be able to go
on your podcast or something.

Speaker 1 (53:09):
Yeah, all about it.

Speaker 4 (53:11):
We can talk.

Speaker 3 (53:12):
I want to know more about your healing era, like yeah, sure, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (53:17):
Yeah, yeah yeah, I would love to talk all about
it again, like you, I'm I'm I have ups and downs,
and some days I feel great about it. The other
days I'm just saying, why the hell did am I choosing.

Speaker 4 (53:26):
To do this? But totally it's okay.

Speaker 2 (53:27):
It's a process, guys, we have to trust the process.
And trust the progress as well.

Speaker 4 (53:31):
Wait, there's one thing I remember, I want what I
wanted to say. Yeah, and I'm sorry. I know we're
I know we're wrapping up.

Speaker 1 (53:37):
No, no, no, You're good.

Speaker 3 (53:38):
Love and sex is so different than giving up a substance,
you know what I'm saying, Because like we are human
and like we want connections so bad. So I think
that's why, like this journey has been so long winded
for me and so filled with ups and downs, because
it's like love is the first thing that you can

(54:00):
get addicted to. Like you can be an elementary school,
you can be on the playground, you know, as a
kid and like have a crush and like feel that
joy and that chase and whatever.

Speaker 4 (54:14):
Like.

Speaker 3 (54:14):
So if if you are someone like your friend maybe
who is struggling with like finding a practice with love
and sex, that isn't bringing chaos to their life, like, yeah,
just go extra easy on yourself. I think, yeah, because
it's not like not having a drink. It's not like
giving up cigarettes. It's like, I don't I'm not gonna

(54:36):
I'm not gonna feel isolated without a cigarette, you know
what I mean. I'll just feel empowered every day. But
I think the detox from like romance or sex or
whatever could potentially feel a little bit lonelier because you
really have to rewire so much in your brain. So
that was my last thing that I wanted to say.
It's just like go extra easy.

Speaker 1 (54:57):
Remember that.

Speaker 2 (54:58):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure, because it's it's true. And
quick question, do you feel that when we're seeking love
outside of ourselves, do you feel like it is because
we're lacking some type of self love?

Speaker 3 (55:10):
I mean, of course, you know, like because I think
so many of us do not have like a self
love practice, because I think so many of us were
not told that that was important, like especially young women.
Like for me growing up, it was like my role
was to make sure other people felt seen, other people
felt loved. Everything as a lady, to be lady like,

(55:31):
to be a polite, gentle, sweet southern girl. It was
my job and my only job to make sure everyone
around me felt seen and loved.

Speaker 4 (55:39):
But it's seen as like self It has.

Speaker 3 (55:42):
Been seen as so selfish to make sure that's happening internally.

Speaker 4 (55:46):
Also, it's true.

Speaker 3 (55:49):
That's how I felt for a long time totally, And
to like be to be self loving does not mean
to just be like indulgent. Like to be self loving
is to be like it's like how Bell Hooks kind
of has that definition of love and all about love.
It's like commitment, honesty, like safety, like all of these things.

(56:12):
Like to be self loving is to like really reckon
with who you are and what you need, and what
you need is not always what you want, you know what.

Speaker 2 (56:21):
I and being honest with yourself saying you know what,
I don't really like this about myself.

Speaker 1 (56:28):
I'm going to change it.

Speaker 2 (56:30):
Yeah, Or I really like this about myself even if
people don't like it. That's also self love and giving
yourself time and taking walks on the beach.

Speaker 1 (56:38):
Yeah, there's so many.

Speaker 2 (56:40):
It's so it's so broad that it's not as easy
as people think, and it is a tough journey, but
it's one that I think is so gratifying when when
you finally feel like, Okay, I've gotten to a place
where I'm like, Okay, I love myself Now I'm ready
for a person to come into my life.

Speaker 4 (56:54):
Mm hmmm.

Speaker 3 (56:55):
Yeah, And I think I'll be there one day and
I'm gonna call you when I am.

Speaker 1 (56:59):
Don't trip you. You are such a beautiful like you're
so beautiful.

Speaker 4 (57:02):
By the way, Oh my god, I look a mess today.

Speaker 2 (57:05):
I'm like, oh, you're naturally pretty. You're naturally pretty. So
I'm sure all these guys are in your DMS want
like no.

Speaker 3 (57:12):
No, literally, I'm like, I'm like, yeah, I'm just not ready. Yeah,
I'm just like I yeah, am back in this era
of like I still have not done it yet, you
know what I'm saying. And it's like it's like that's
sort of as we've said that. I've said this one
hundred times in the last hour. But it's just like
you know when you've done the work, and you know

(57:33):
when you haven't, and you know when you need to,
and like if you can start letting yourself do it
little by little by little, you'll.

Speaker 4 (57:40):
Be so proud of yourself.

Speaker 2 (57:42):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (57:42):
And I think people who are afraid to give something
up it is scary because just change is scary. But like, ooh,
You're gonna feel so proud of yourself when you like
feel yourself stack in your days, you know what I mean,
Like when I like that accomplishment totally totally like aret
small and then like watch it grow and then you

(58:03):
can really just like trust you can start to trust
yourself too.

Speaker 4 (58:06):
I think that's what it is, like.

Speaker 1 (58:08):
That's key, start slow, little bit little.

Speaker 4 (58:11):
I have to meet your friend. I'm like, oh my.

Speaker 1 (58:14):
Absolutely absolutely, I need to go on your pod.

Speaker 4 (58:17):
You my friend.

Speaker 2 (58:18):
Well there's anything that I can help you with as
far as like healing or you know, I am here
for you.

Speaker 1 (58:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:25):
I really enjoyed the conversation and I'm sure a lot
of the listeners mis hoope gave you guys, hope she
give me.

Speaker 1 (58:31):
I love it, cliche, I know, whatever, but I love it.

Speaker 4 (58:35):
I was like, thank your name, thank you, thank you, but.

Speaker 2 (58:39):
Thank you so much, thank you for being on listeners.
I love you guys, Thank you for listening. I hope
you guys enjoyed this conversation as much as I did.
Your energy, hope is great for.

Speaker 4 (58:48):
All you too. You too, This has been so much fun.

Speaker 2 (58:52):
Thank you, Thank you, guys, and I'll catch you on
the next episode of Chickens and Chill Bye. This is
a production of iHeartRadio and the Microdura podcast Network. Follow
us on Instagram at Michael Doura Podcasts. Then follow me
Chiky's That's c h I t U I S for

(59:13):
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or wherever you listen to your favorite podcast.