July 14, 2022 • 33 mins
We're back with the second episode in our Red Bull two-parter, and it's time to talk drivers. On one side of the garage is reigning World Drivers' Champion Max Verstappen, a young racing prodigy known to never back down from a fight — sometimes to his own detriment. On the other side is Sergio "Checo" Perez, a veteran driver who's consistency and reliability initially earned him a spot on one of the grid's fastest teams. The Red Bull team functions with a clear number-one and number-two driver setup. How has it fared for them with this duo?
Special thanks to our guests: Jennie Gow, and Aldas Kavaliauskas.
This episode was produced by Lily Herman and Senior Producer Yochai Maital. Sound Design by Yochai Maital. Mastering by Sela Waisblum. Recording at The Cutting Room Studios by Rob O'Leary II. At SI Studios, Max Miller is Executive Producer and Brannan Goetschius is Head of Audio. At iHeartRadio, Sean Titone is Executive Producer.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Lily touring or to amno ethan sulfonic acid is an
organic compound that is widely distributed in animal tissues. It
is a major constituent of bile and can be found
in the large intestine and accounts for up to point
one percent of total human body weight. It's named after
(00:29):
the Latin taurus, which means bull or ox was first
isolated from ox bile in seven by a German scientist.
So touring in Red Bull basically animal bile stomach acid
delicious carbonated, which is which is an excellent transition to
(00:53):
Max whatever. His last name is a perfect segue, if
you will. So for those who are just joining us,
this is a second episode about Red Bull, second of
our two parter, focusing on the drivers and what would
I what I would consider to be probably the most
(01:14):
interesting driver pairing in that I don't necessarily feel like
they are competing against each other. But we will get
into why that happened and why that exists. From my
Heart Radio and Sports Illustrated Studios, this is choosing sides. One. Wow,
(01:44):
I have to admit, as a sports fan, there's something
extraordinarily contradictory about watching teammates pass each other it's still
I still can't kind of comprehend it because they're on
the same team, but yet they're racing, so that that
(02:05):
that's a very complicated but also cool factor of Formula One.
I would say it's more one way at Red Bull.
You know, we don't we don't see Sergio Perez, also
known as Checho passing Max, but we definitely see quite
a bit of Max at times passing passing Checko. But
we'll get into that. So yeah, So our two drivers today,
(02:26):
we have reigning World driver's champion Max for Stappin, and
then we have Sergio Perez. Sergio Perez is also often
called Checko, so you can use those names interchangeably, but
he's more often than not called just Checko. So we're
gonna start with Max for Stappin, partially because he is
the reigning world champion and he got that title through
(02:49):
a little bit of an upset. Do you remember when
we talked about Louis Hamilton's with Mercedes, we discussed how
he's into a million things. He does fashion, he loves
his dog, he you know, he's got tattoos, into social activism.
I would say Max for Stappen, Max Verstappen is the
complete opposite end of the spectrum. He has essentially been
(03:12):
engineered from birth to be a Formula One driver. That
is all he's about, that is all he thinks about.
I remember interviewing him at the end of the sixteen
season and he said, if someone gives me a car
fast enough to win, I will be world champion. This
is Jenny Gal, a long time F one journalist. There's
no butts with Maxi verstapp and he knows he's good enough.
(03:32):
He just needed a car and now he has it.
So he's a very intriguing character, the antithesis of Sir
Lewis Hamilton's inasmuch as he does turn up on a
race weekend. He hates talking to the media. Just already
stopped about this because it's we had so many questions
about this ridiculous. He gets into his car as quickly
(03:53):
as he can, he drives some laps around and then
he leaves the track and you don't hear of him,
you don't see him. He doesn't have any kind of
huge online presence. Tennis has these people, and I can't
stand these people in my in the sport of tennis
because they just are engineered robots, fun to watch and
(04:14):
amazing at this skill set. But then it's like, what
else life is this, you know, buffet of emotions and
interests and hobbies and people in my opinion, and they's
just not how they live their life. What what? What
nationality is Max? He is Dutch and he was He
was the first Dutch Formula One driver to ever win
a Grand Prix. They fucking love Max for staffid in
(04:44):
back in the Netherlands, like they are obsessed with him.
They're a small country. They go very hard for their athletes. Yeah,
I got a couple of pictures here to show you.
Uh looks like a race picture racing car driver. Uh,
you know what, his face, it's just not the warmest,
(05:05):
most likable looking face. I don't know what you're saying
is Max is starting out at a bit of a
deficit for you. Actually, I did find some photos of
him smiling for you, which might also be a little
bit of a foreign look. So I have Max on
the left it's him current day, and then on the
right is when he entered F one as a teenager.
It looks like the face is not meant to smile.
(05:27):
It looks like like like if someone had to punch
in into a computer software. Okay, Max, smile and the
pressed enter. I'm being very hard on this young champion man.
He looks so young, still got acne on his face.
But um interested to hear more about him because my
initial reaction is like he reminds me of of a
racing robot. You're not incorrect in terms of what other
(05:48):
people have said. So to understand Max Verstappen, it's actually
very important to understand his father, a man named Yos
first Appen Yos Jos Yas Firs. Stepping actually was also
a Formula one driver, though not a particularly successful one.
He's actually known for a race where back in the day,
during pit stops, drivers used to come in get their
(06:10):
tires change and actually refuel and on one such occasion
his team pulled out you know, the the gas pump
refueling stuff early and his car set ablaze with Yas
for Steppen in it an interesting, interesting legacy to leave.
But basically Yas has the son Max. And aside from
(06:33):
day one that Max Verstappen is going to be the
F one driver, he never was. He's going to conquer
the sport and and that's just how it's it's going
to be. Stappen was quite an abrasive character, and he
used that sort of aggression that you know parent on
the touch line shouting at their child, screaming for them
(06:55):
to get a goal. He used that psyche to to
get the best out of Max to sta happened, and
it was a harsh upbringing. I'm not going to assign
judgment on this, but just to list some things. He
has been accused of assault and domestic violence by several
former partners, including Max's mother. Uh In twelve, he was
actually arrested on attempted murder charges for allegedly trying to
(07:17):
run over the next girlfriend, though those charges were eventually dropped.
And I will say the way that Max talks about
his childhood, it's very awkward in that Max will describe
it in very folksy nostalgic terms. But then the stories
he's telling, you're just kind of as an adult sitting
there like what so. For example, he was once left
(07:37):
to the service station because he didn't win a race,
and then his mom had to come and pick him up.
He also proceeded to for the week following this incident
not talked to Max. Now it tears a plenty in
that household, but it brought him into this category of
being one of the best sports people we've seen in
form in a one. Well, now I feel terrible for
(07:59):
what I said about Max, because he might be an
excellent racer, but what he probably needs is a hug
from dad on, some unconditional love. Probably a little therapy,
but they all need therapy. But yeah, so, yeah, so
I think that adds a little more context to why
Max is the way he is. I will say, though,
that y'as didn't turn out to be correct, that he
was a very very good driver from a young age.
(08:20):
I mean, he was racking up wins left and right
all the way back when he was a kid krding.
I think he first took him out, first took Max
out to kart when he was four or four and
a half years old. He's one of these you know,
from the very beginning was was a racer. And he
has the interesting distinction of remember when we talked about
how there are these quote unquote lower lower formulas that
you work up from F four F three Formula two,
(08:42):
so Max actually went straight from Formula three to Formula one.
So he skipped Formula two, and he to this day
is the youngest uh F one driver to ever start
a race. He was seventeen years old, and then he
ended up becoming the youngest driver to ever win a
Grand Prix when he was eighteen years old. You are
(09:05):
a race winner. Fantastic, what a trade debut, Thank you
very much, Christian. So he's a guy who's been golden boy,
especially in this one particular team structure since day zero.
Pretty much interesting. I like him more and I sympathize
with him more now that I know the history, which
is which is probably how it is with every human
on earth. So practice empathy today, ladies and gentlemen. You
(09:28):
never know who the Max for staffands are in your
own lives. Uh So, Okay, this probably also doesn't surprise
you that Max as a driver can be a little aggressive,
more than a little aggressive. That's what he is. Ridiculous heratistically, honestly.
(09:49):
And he's also though known for being one of the
fastest I mean even again when he was carding, when
he was when he was in these lower formulas, was
just always known for his speed, and there was a
lot of belief back then that even though he would
ash or make mistakes. It was like, hey, we can
we can really hone this kid's skill and keep the
speed and lose all the other the other stuff on
the flip side. Max, in addition to being pretty matter
(10:10):
of fact, as we've discussed a little bit automaton at times,
he has an extreme dislike for the media. Max. Well,
i've you had so many accidents. I don't know, and
(10:30):
like I said in the beginning of this press conference,
I got really tired of all the questions. So yeah,
I think if I get a few more ahead about
someone speaking of this Netflix show Drive to Survive, that
kind of periodically comes up. He actually declined to participate
in season four because they create fake storylines and fake
rivalries and he did not like his portrayal. And of
(10:51):
course there is some debate over if the portrayal was
inaccurate or not. That's a debate everyone can have. But
I will say everyone wants you to start streaming. He
does get along with quite a few of the drivers
around his own age on the grid. He does do
twitch streams with them. I love you he can, so
I wouldn't say that he's like a disliked character universally
particularly by his peers who actually have to race against him.
(11:14):
Good luck, don't don't cry. No, I'll try not to,
and I'll see We're gonna take a break and we're
right back. Max is the defending world champion, right, Okay?
So it I mean, are we rooting for him to defend?
Do we like Max, does the sport like Max? Or
(11:35):
is he kind of the you know, ugly champion and
everyone's kind of hoping someone more marketable comes through. There
was a lot of controversy over this, and I'm gonna
try to explain it as suscinctly as possible, because when
I say they're a little podcast like shows dedicated to
this incident or last season series of incidents that led
(11:56):
to Max being world champion, like, it would take take
a lot of time, you know. And I'm going to
also try and say this in a way that doesn't
offend everyone who was, in fact a fan who watched
last season. So, as we were talking about, Red Bull
went through some years where they weren't really in championship
contending mode, but in one they finally have a car
(12:18):
that is capable of keeping up with Mercedes, and for
the first time in many years, there were two separate
drivers from two separate teams who were in fact dueling
for a championship. Lewis and Max go back and forth
the whole season in terms of who's winning, who's up
in the points. They have two major crashes that are
also hotly debated to this day. One, for instance, involves
(12:40):
Max going yet over uh fifty I think it's fifty
one g forces into a wall at Silverstone. You then
have Max basically crashing over Louis and that little, uh,
that like circular thing called the halo that you see
over the cars that saved Louis from having his head
crushed by Max's car. The fans are just bit like
(13:00):
feral at this point. Racist messages, including monkey emojis and
other racial abuse came off to Hamilton's fought back from
a ten second panel. Racist abuse directed at Lewis Hamilton's
is unacceptable, and we've removed a number of comments from Instagram.
The one thing I think all fans can agree on
is that race control. You know, the f I A
these kind of people who govern over the sport. We're
(13:23):
really not set up to referee or moderate a good
championship battle. They hadn't had one in years there were
a lot of inconsistencies about certain penalties being called for
certain drivers or teams or situations not others. People were
not fans generally of how the season was reft, so
to speak, and so we somehow end up, through a
(13:45):
variety of means, getting to the last race of last
season and Lewis and Max are completely tied in the points. Yeah,
perfect storm, right, you're just sitting there. It was must
must watch TV. I was in Costa Rica for a wedding,
and I was up after the wedding, you know, the
next morning like six and am to watch what was
about to unfold. We've been waiting for this whole season long,
(14:08):
the finale, the title decide under the lights here and
abbys abby. It slides down away. Lewis is ahead, He's
doing well for much of the race. For the first
you know, fifty or so laps, it's really looking like
a Louis win. Then with only a couple of laps
to go in the final race of the season, a
driver from your Darling team Williams, a man named Nicholas
(14:29):
Latifi crashes and when there's a crash where they need
to clear the debris, in the car and make sure
the driver's okay. They usually issue what's called a safety car.
Basically the drivers have to slow down. You know, it
forced them to get to the side of the track.
They can't be passing anyone. You know. The whole idea
is to keep the race going. Why aren't we getting
these from lap cars out of the way and just
keep close Christian, just keep me a second. You know,
(14:53):
Lewis is in first place, Max is in second, but Max,
because of where they were in the race, is actually
behind several cars who Lewis had lapped, and so normally,
you know, it takes a little time, even if you're
faster on these cars to get around them. That's just
how race car driving works. What ends up happening is
that the race director, this guy named Michael Massey whose
name is now living in infamy. Essentially, Michael Massey makes
(15:15):
a call where he allows Max to kind of go
ahead of these lap cars and not they call it
unlapping themselves, so he doesn't have to fight around them
because they're on the last lap of the race. This confusion,
but the safety car is coming in at the end
of this lap, so they those backmarkers allowed, So I
(15:36):
would say the safety car, and Michael Massey makes this
decision because they want a race to actually happen. And
the big problem with this for Stefan has the faster,
fresher tires. We've talked about tire strategy and all these
other things that go into a Formula One race. So
Max actually has fresher tires than Lewis. So obviously, given
(15:56):
that his tires are a lot newer, he's able to
pass Lewis Hamilton's on the last lap. He's gonna make
the luge inside how about it? Says it coming, it's
a light large barbs dapper and wins the Formula One
Championship for the driver's title. Let's started with controversy, has
ending with controversy. Biking no no. Mike Mercedes still wins
(16:19):
the Constructor's Championship, but he denies Louis his eighth world title,
which would make him the winningest driver in in Formula
history definitively, and that's Max's win. The problem is his
his world title for season comes with this weird asterisk, right, Yeah,
Like it's this weird sort of setup where it's like,
well he's not even allowed. Yeah, So this has created
(16:42):
a lot of a lot of drama after the fact.
We're breaking news to bring you from the world of
Formula One. This time the f i A say that
Michael Massey has lost his role as the current race director.
They put him in another position in the f i A.
He's just not race direct right. Yeah, but I mean this,
this doesn't matter to me. If you're a race director,
the head of Formula One, there should just be systems
(17:03):
in place that that doesn't even allow that. That's like saying, Okay,
NBA teams, we had someone run on the court, but
now you get ten extra points. I mean it's just nuts. Yeah.
That being said, did Max do anything wrong? I think
no one would would argue that Max isn't capable of
winning a World Driver's title. Right. He was right in
there all season. He's had some phenomenal races. Just a
fast guy. And look, I also personally, just speaking for myself,
(17:27):
I do not fault Max for taking advantage of the
situation he was given, right, you gotta he did. He'd
exactly what they said there. I think you can you
can get past these cars having to fight them for it.
You know, he had fresher tires, which again was just
a lucky strategic call and it it was just one lap left.
There's one lap left when the safety car was taken out. Also,
Lewis allowed himself to be overtaken. Well, he was just
(17:49):
not his car wasn't gonna be as fast as with
tires that were old. So so then you could make
the argument, and I'm playing Devil's advocate both sides here,
you can make the argument that Max and his team
managed the car are better exactly. Yeah, I can just
say they lucked out. They're able to get new tires
on at a time. You know, they obviously don't know
that Nicholas latif he's going to crash into a wall
with a couple of laps left. So that's I would
(18:09):
say Max's deal. So in terms of how Max is
doing coming into this two season, I will say he
had a rough start the first race. Both Red Bull
cars end up not finishing, and Max was understandably not
pleased as the rating world champion who already has a
little bit of a chip on his shoulder coming in
(18:33):
as of this recording. Things got a lot better after
those first couple of races. He has been called dominant
by some in the press this season. There's still a
lot of two season to go, so it's definitely too
early to just call it. But I think if Max
was hoping to have a season where no one could
dispute that he was the champion, He's definitely on his
(18:55):
way to getting there where there wouldn't be a single
asterisk or any weirdness or a keyness around him taking
that title. We'll be right back after this break. It
will be faster than a red bull pit stop. Who's
on the other side of the garage, So across the
garage we have Sergio Checko Perez, who has a completely
(19:16):
different vibe than backs for staffing in every way, shape
or form. So the quick stats Checko is thirty two
years old as of this recording. He is a father
too too soon to be three kids. He's married, and
he's from Mexico, and that's a big deal for many reasons,
including sponsorship wise, checko career in general has been largely
(19:38):
funded by Carlo Slim, the billionaire, and a lot of
his companies sponsored Checko, so you'll see the Claro logo
on all sorts of stuff over the years. That's also
been actually a reason why Checko has sometimes been preferred
over other drivers by teams. Is Hey, this guy's gonna
bring all this money, especially money that we don't necessarily
see into the sport. You mean Latin American money, exactly. Yeah.
(19:59):
So you know, Carlo Slim isn't sponsoring any other drivers
in the same way he's sponsoring Checho Perez. Uh. Something
else about Checko He is very Catholic. At one point
he kept a photo of the late Pope John Paul
the Second in his F one car. Yes, baby, you
(20:24):
know what, whatever keeps you safe, whatever it gives you
that little bit of edge you have, it's superstition or
something like he it seems to work for him. He's
has one of the longest careers currently. Yeah, I love
that about him. I love that he's thirty two. I
love that family seems to be important. And this is
based off of what you've just told me. I don't
(20:44):
really know what these guys do them their private time,
but so yeah, So, as I said, Checho has one
of the longest running careers, especially enough one right now.
So he's been in the sport for well over a decade, which, again,
in a sport where every race could be your last
is pretty impressive. Impressive. Why has Checko stuck around for
so long? Really? Why has Checho stuck around? So? A
couple of things. One, he does have great sponsorship with
(21:06):
people like Carlo Slim. So if you're bringing in money,
you know you can afford to have a little more
wiggle room in terms of if things aren't going perfectly
or super swell. But what do you mean you're bigging
in money because because it's not like the Formula One
gets the money from from Slim, you're saying because he
is funded or because he makes money from the endorsements
(21:30):
that somehow I don't understand. So a lot of times
these sponsors for individual drivers, that money goes to the team,
So they bring in money for the teams. They might say,
you know, hey, Carloston will say I'm gonna give Red
Bull thirty million dollars or whatever it is, and they'll say, okay,
that's that's a huge chunk of change. That helps a
lot exactly. So so if you have some of these sponsors,
it can just get you a little bit more more
(21:51):
time if things aren't going well. He's a driver who
came into Formula One as a page driver, He didn't
get into forming one purely based on you know, office talent.
This is f one expert I'll just kevlowskis. But the
reason why I'm a fan of him is that very
quickly we realized this guy is not here just off
the back of his money. He has got talent, and
no one calls him a paid driver anymore. The way
(22:11):
he's been going around teams, he has been there for
a reason. He had to grind his way. He's not
a household name like a maximust happen. But yeah, he
finally got into Red Bull, you know the team that
is basically Max's team. Everyone knew it, there's no kind
of denying it. So check is known as a very
consistent driver and a well rounded driver, but in particular
he can be really really good at defending pack up,
(22:33):
brilliant job, brilliant the stuff. And he's also very good
at things like tire conservation, which means if they say, hey, Checko,
we need you to kind of last out on the track,
we we can't pit stop you for another like twenty
laps and and you know this will help our strategy,
particularly to help another driver win. We need you to
just make sure, you don't, you know, blow through your
tires or do something, you know, make them too cold
(22:55):
or too hot. He's very good at just staying out
there and doing whatever they need him to do. So
for a team, you know, having a reliable, consistent, solid
driver who you know might not be the you know,
a Max for Staffen in terms of quickness, but but
it's still very fast and can do well. You know,
having that that reliability can be super great for a team.
So what makes the Checko and Max dynamic very interesting
(23:18):
is the fact that they actually get along. It's been
really enjoyable working with Checko. I think we respect each
other a lot. We helped the team forward because we
always trying to love for the same thing. It's been
a really enjoyable ownership. Yeah, seems like Max is definitely
benefiting from this relationship. Obviously, I'm sure about to be like,
what does check out of it? But so, what's interesting
(23:40):
about Red Bull They've always had issues with their two
drivers not getting along, having you know, inner team rivalries,
having them you know, funk up each other's races and
whatnot over these rivalries, and and all of these issues
only multiplied when Max for Staffen came in as this
chipper young teenager, and Red Bull made it very clear
that this was their dude for like the foreseeable future,
(24:01):
Like they were putting all the eggs in the Max
for Staff in basket. So, as we've discussed, most teams
have a number one and number two driver, and that's
kind of the dynamic, and understandably, most people do not
want to be a number two driver. You wouldn't be
an F one unless you were gunning for that world title.
There's no point in being in the sport. So what
started to happen is a very popular driver named Daniel Ricardo,
(24:25):
who will meet very very soon. But Dania Ricardo was
a longtime Red Bull driver. He was part of their
you know young driver development program, very well known and
very well liked by the public. He announces he's leaving,
and a big part of that reason is he started
to feel like despite his own successes, despite being older
than Max for Staff, in having more wins, etcetera, he
was being kind of edged out and kind of made
(24:47):
to be the number two. So Daniel Ricardo leaves kind
of somewhat unexpectedly, Red Bull fills that seat with another
driver who we will talk about soon named Pierre Ghastly.
Uh remember when we said that Red Bull will happily
just yank people from seats. Well, Pierre had a rough
start taking over that number two seat to Max, and
he is yanked, not even necessarily like halfway. They proceed
(25:09):
to put another driver who now actually races for your
team Williams, named Alex Alban. He also, like the revolving
door continues. He's out within a year and a half,
and interestingly, both Alex and Pierre their careers did suffer
as a result, so Pierre was dropped down to that
sister team which then was called Toro Rosso now Alpha Towery.
(25:31):
Alex Alban actually was taken out of the sport of
f one for a year. He's only just come back,
so so their careers were damaged by that would then
be can't became known as the cursed number two seats, right,
the cursed Red Bull number two seat. So of course
Red bulls aware that they're starting to get this reputation.
They also are aware that, hey, it seems, you know,
this is just not us. Pulling from our current stable
(25:51):
of drivers is not working out quite well. So they
pull a very interesting move and they bring in Checko.
I think if you go into its team knowing that
you are a number two driver, there is something about
that in your headspace that makes it acceptable to you.
That was Jenny Go again. You know you are there
is a supporting role, and at Red Bull they clearly
(26:13):
define that. I think Sergey Paris knows that he is
fortunate to have found himself in a championship winning car.
He's getting paid a lot of money to be there,
and some drivers can make peace with that better than others. Now,
whether Paris has made peace with that entirely, I doubt it,
(26:34):
but you never know. Maybe I just googled check out
Pere's salary and it says eight million a year, and
it says Max million a year. Yeah, and they think
it's more for Max, now okay, and you know there's
still endorsements. I mean, he's the other thing is getting
paid very well. Yes, I mean I would be second
(26:55):
fiddle for a lot less than that. But the reason
I'm not first fiddle in anything is because I don't
have that ego that that gets you in informing the
one seat at all um. But I do think as
you get older, as you have kids, you start to go,
I love racing, I love my job. I love the
(27:16):
collaboration of a team moving towards a specific goal. And
maybe it also I love eight million dollars. I'm sure, Checko,
I'm sure all that plays in totally. He's a real
team player as a driver. Motorsports journalist Hazel Southwell, people
who've seen Drives five might not realize this because it
wasn't quite portrayed very well in the show. Um, he's
(27:39):
also someone who has managed to not get totally crushed
by the existentially destructive experience of being Max Verstaffen's teammate. Um,
which you know he's the first. Yeah, like I said,
it will be interesting to see at what point Red
Bull says, Hey, we're ready to kind of dip back
into our pool of young talent. And I've always said
(28:01):
it's going to be interesting when they find the new
max for stepping and current max for stapping is no
longer the it guy. What happens, It'll always be interesting
in sport when the max for stapping is then asked
to become the Checho Perez. That'll always be fun. So, Michael,
we have spent two episodes now talking about Red Bull.
(28:24):
You now know about two teams on the grids the
way there. First of all, what do you think of
Red Bull as a team, and what do you think
of these drivers? That's that's the that's my empty red Bull.
I finished a Red Bull this episode. I don't like Christian.
He seems like a whiny over ACTI team principal. Uh Max,
(28:47):
I'm not in love with either. Okay, to be specific,
he seems like a lot of these tennis kids I
grew up with that all they knew had it was
to play tennis. But then you'd ask them the most
simple question, like locate England on a map, and they
(29:07):
don't even They couldn't do anything. They couldn't do anything else.
Right now, I'm just really distilling it down here. Love
the Checko Perez character. Love that he's a family man,
Love that he's willing to play defense for the young
up and comer who who you know, has already arrived
in a lot of ways. I love a great team player,
(29:30):
and I find it interesting that you you like I
don't know if i'd say both George and Checho are underdogs,
but these sort of not the champion dies on both
for sure. I mean, I I like the people that
get the least amount of credit that I think really
do the dirty work. I have always liked those people
in sport, the Scottie Pippens, you know. Uh, and I
(29:50):
hope they sleep well at night because they are world
class at their endeavor. But they're just not getting the
same credit that the other person. So I find it
all very interesting. And what I do love about the
Red Bull team is that this is not Lexis, this
is not Mercedes, this is not Croquet. This is a
(30:13):
working class energy drink for truckers, do you know what
I mean? So I like, I really do like that. Uh.
And I also think Christian is doing a lot of
what team principal head coaches need to do, which is
I am gonna lead by example for the belief in
the competitiveness that I want you to have. So he's
very you know, extroverted in his display of that. So
(30:37):
he leads by example. The question is if we like
the example. Yeah, I don't know if I like the example,
And I think it's a lot of bark. But uh,
but I can see now thanks to you, Lily, why
this Mercedes Red Bull rivalry is really fun. Yeah. Yeah,
it's just so different in a lot of ways. So
how are you feeling when you compare a Mercedes to
(30:58):
a Red Bull? Yeah? Well, I I used the word
class and I said that I felt like Team red
Bull was lacking that. And I would probably still stick
with that, and I would say that Mercedes probably on
on brand for them, feels like they they have class.
If I had to pick between these two teams right now,
(31:19):
I'm going to contradict myself. I would probably go with Mercedes.
Is that interesting? Not? Need to need more? I need?
I need more teams. You need, need more teams, I
need more teams. Um, I've got a feeling I'm going
to pick a different team than these two. Well, you know,
we don't rock into Williams for a while. Yeah, I know,
But I like Williams, but I have no idea why
I like. So who's next week? So next week we
(31:49):
have our final two parter and we're talking about the
most historic team on the grid, not Williams. We are
talking about Ferrari. Yes, I mean I used to have
Ferrari posters up in my bedroom as a kid. There
we go. So Ferrari is the only team on the
(32:11):
F one grid that has participated in every single year
of the official Formula One Championship going back to So
we've got a team with history, we've got some very
very hot Italian tempers, we've got controversial leadership. We have
got an interesting pairing of drivers who are probably the
most evenly matched on the grid, which is going to
(32:33):
create some some fireworks. And they actually have a car
that might challenge for the championship this year. So we've
got a really fun two episodes coming all about the
most venerable team on the grid theoretically. I can't wait
to learn about it. Excellent. This has been Choosing Sides
(32:57):
f one, a production of Sports Illustrated Studios and I
Heart Radio. The show was hosted by Michael Costa and
Lily herb. This episode was produced by Lily Herman and
our senior producer hi Mi Taal, who also did the
sound design at the Cutting Room Studios. We are recorded
by engineer Robot Leary. The second mastering by Cello Weisblu.
(33:22):
Max Miller is the executive producer and Brannan get Us
his head of Audio at s I Studios. At I
Heart Radio, Sean Titone is our executive producer for more
podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app,
Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts, and don't
forget to rate us and tell your friends. It'll mean
(33:43):
a lot
Lily touring or to amno ethan sulfonic acid is an
organic compound that is widely distributed in animal tissues. It
is a major constituent of bile and can be found
in the large intestine and accounts for up to point
one percent of total human body weight. It's named after
(00:29):
the Latin taurus, which means bull or ox was first
isolated from ox bile in seven by a German scientist.
So touring in Red Bull basically animal bile stomach acid
delicious carbonated, which is which is an excellent transition to
(00:53):
Max whatever. His last name is a perfect segue, if
you will. So for those who are just joining us,
this is a second episode about Red Bull, second of
our two parter, focusing on the drivers and what would
I what I would consider to be probably the most
(01:14):
interesting driver pairing in that I don't necessarily feel like
they are competing against each other. But we will get
into why that happened and why that exists. From my
Heart Radio and Sports Illustrated Studios, this is choosing sides. One. Wow,
(01:44):
I have to admit, as a sports fan, there's something
extraordinarily contradictory about watching teammates pass each other it's still
I still can't kind of comprehend it because they're on
the same team, but yet they're racing, so that that
(02:05):
that's a very complicated but also cool factor of Formula One.
I would say it's more one way at Red Bull.
You know, we don't we don't see Sergio Perez, also
known as Checho passing Max, but we definitely see quite
a bit of Max at times passing passing Checko. But
we'll get into that. So yeah, So our two drivers today,
(02:26):
we have reigning World driver's champion Max for Stappin, and
then we have Sergio Perez. Sergio Perez is also often
called Checko, so you can use those names interchangeably, but
he's more often than not called just Checko. So we're
gonna start with Max for Stappin, partially because he is
the reigning world champion and he got that title through
(02:49):
a little bit of an upset. Do you remember when
we talked about Louis Hamilton's with Mercedes, we discussed how
he's into a million things. He does fashion, he loves
his dog, he you know, he's got tattoos, into social activism.
I would say Max for Stappen, Max Verstappen is the
complete opposite end of the spectrum. He has essentially been
(03:12):
engineered from birth to be a Formula One driver. That
is all he's about, that is all he thinks about.
I remember interviewing him at the end of the sixteen
season and he said, if someone gives me a car
fast enough to win, I will be world champion. This
is Jenny Gal, a long time F one journalist. There's
no butts with Maxi verstapp and he knows he's good enough.
(03:32):
He just needed a car and now he has it.
So he's a very intriguing character, the antithesis of Sir
Lewis Hamilton's inasmuch as he does turn up on a
race weekend. He hates talking to the media. Just already
stopped about this because it's we had so many questions
about this ridiculous. He gets into his car as quickly
(03:53):
as he can, he drives some laps around and then
he leaves the track and you don't hear of him,
you don't see him. He doesn't have any kind of
huge online presence. Tennis has these people, and I can't
stand these people in my in the sport of tennis
because they just are engineered robots, fun to watch and
(04:14):
amazing at this skill set. But then it's like, what
else life is this, you know, buffet of emotions and
interests and hobbies and people in my opinion, and they's
just not how they live their life. What what? What
nationality is Max? He is Dutch and he was He
was the first Dutch Formula One driver to ever win
a Grand Prix. They fucking love Max for staffid in
(04:44):
back in the Netherlands, like they are obsessed with him.
They're a small country. They go very hard for their athletes. Yeah,
I got a couple of pictures here to show you.
Uh looks like a race picture racing car driver. Uh,
you know what, his face, it's just not the warmest,
(05:05):
most likable looking face. I don't know what you're saying
is Max is starting out at a bit of a
deficit for you. Actually, I did find some photos of
him smiling for you, which might also be a little
bit of a foreign look. So I have Max on
the left it's him current day, and then on the
right is when he entered F one as a teenager.
It looks like the face is not meant to smile.
(05:27):
It looks like like like if someone had to punch
in into a computer software. Okay, Max, smile and the
pressed enter. I'm being very hard on this young champion man.
He looks so young, still got acne on his face.
But um interested to hear more about him because my
initial reaction is like he reminds me of of a
racing robot. You're not incorrect in terms of what other
(05:48):
people have said. So to understand Max Verstappen, it's actually
very important to understand his father, a man named Yos
first Appen Yos Jos Yas Firs. Stepping actually was also
a Formula one driver, though not a particularly successful one.
He's actually known for a race where back in the day,
during pit stops, drivers used to come in get their
(06:10):
tires change and actually refuel and on one such occasion
his team pulled out you know, the the gas pump
refueling stuff early and his car set ablaze with Yas
for Steppen in it an interesting, interesting legacy to leave.
But basically Yas has the son Max. And aside from
(06:33):
day one that Max Verstappen is going to be the
F one driver, he never was. He's going to conquer
the sport and and that's just how it's it's going
to be. Stappen was quite an abrasive character, and he
used that sort of aggression that you know parent on
the touch line shouting at their child, screaming for them
(06:55):
to get a goal. He used that psyche to to
get the best out of Max to sta happened, and
it was a harsh upbringing. I'm not going to assign
judgment on this, but just to list some things. He
has been accused of assault and domestic violence by several
former partners, including Max's mother. Uh In twelve, he was
actually arrested on attempted murder charges for allegedly trying to
(07:17):
run over the next girlfriend, though those charges were eventually dropped.
And I will say the way that Max talks about
his childhood, it's very awkward in that Max will describe
it in very folksy nostalgic terms. But then the stories
he's telling, you're just kind of as an adult sitting
there like what so. For example, he was once left
(07:37):
to the service station because he didn't win a race,
and then his mom had to come and pick him up.
He also proceeded to for the week following this incident
not talked to Max. Now it tears a plenty in
that household, but it brought him into this category of
being one of the best sports people we've seen in
form in a one. Well, now I feel terrible for
(07:59):
what I said about Max, because he might be an
excellent racer, but what he probably needs is a hug
from dad on, some unconditional love. Probably a little therapy,
but they all need therapy. But yeah, so, yeah, so
I think that adds a little more context to why
Max is the way he is. I will say, though,
that y'as didn't turn out to be correct, that he
was a very very good driver from a young age.
(08:20):
I mean, he was racking up wins left and right
all the way back when he was a kid krding.
I think he first took him out, first took Max
out to kart when he was four or four and
a half years old. He's one of these you know,
from the very beginning was was a racer. And he
has the interesting distinction of remember when we talked about
how there are these quote unquote lower lower formulas that
you work up from F four F three Formula two,
(08:42):
so Max actually went straight from Formula three to Formula one.
So he skipped Formula two, and he to this day
is the youngest uh F one driver to ever start
a race. He was seventeen years old, and then he
ended up becoming the youngest driver to ever win a
Grand Prix when he was eighteen years old. You are
(09:05):
a race winner. Fantastic, what a trade debut, Thank you
very much, Christian. So he's a guy who's been golden boy,
especially in this one particular team structure since day zero.
Pretty much interesting. I like him more and I sympathize
with him more now that I know the history, which
is which is probably how it is with every human
on earth. So practice empathy today, ladies and gentlemen. You
(09:28):
never know who the Max for staffands are in your
own lives. Uh So, Okay, this probably also doesn't surprise
you that Max as a driver can be a little aggressive,
more than a little aggressive. That's what he is. Ridiculous heratistically, honestly.
(09:49):
And he's also though known for being one of the
fastest I mean even again when he was carding, when
he was when he was in these lower formulas, was
just always known for his speed, and there was a
lot of belief back then that even though he would
ash or make mistakes. It was like, hey, we can
we can really hone this kid's skill and keep the
speed and lose all the other the other stuff on
the flip side. Max, in addition to being pretty matter
(10:10):
of fact, as we've discussed a little bit automaton at times,
he has an extreme dislike for the media. Max. Well,
i've you had so many accidents. I don't know, and
(10:30):
like I said in the beginning of this press conference,
I got really tired of all the questions. So yeah,
I think if I get a few more ahead about
someone speaking of this Netflix show Drive to Survive, that
kind of periodically comes up. He actually declined to participate
in season four because they create fake storylines and fake
rivalries and he did not like his portrayal. And of
(10:51):
course there is some debate over if the portrayal was
inaccurate or not. That's a debate everyone can have. But
I will say everyone wants you to start streaming. He
does get along with quite a few of the drivers
around his own age on the grid. He does do
twitch streams with them. I love you he can, so
I wouldn't say that he's like a disliked character universally
particularly by his peers who actually have to race against him.
(11:14):
Good luck, don't don't cry. No, I'll try not to,
and I'll see We're gonna take a break and we're
right back. Max is the defending world champion, right, Okay?
So it I mean, are we rooting for him to defend?
Do we like Max, does the sport like Max? Or
(11:35):
is he kind of the you know, ugly champion and
everyone's kind of hoping someone more marketable comes through. There
was a lot of controversy over this, and I'm gonna
try to explain it as suscinctly as possible, because when
I say they're a little podcast like shows dedicated to
this incident or last season series of incidents that led
(11:56):
to Max being world champion, like, it would take take
a lot of time, you know. And I'm going to
also try and say this in a way that doesn't
offend everyone who was, in fact a fan who watched
last season. So, as we were talking about, Red Bull
went through some years where they weren't really in championship
contending mode, but in one they finally have a car
(12:18):
that is capable of keeping up with Mercedes, and for
the first time in many years, there were two separate
drivers from two separate teams who were in fact dueling
for a championship. Lewis and Max go back and forth
the whole season in terms of who's winning, who's up
in the points. They have two major crashes that are
also hotly debated to this day. One, for instance, involves
(12:40):
Max going yet over uh fifty I think it's fifty
one g forces into a wall at Silverstone. You then
have Max basically crashing over Louis and that little, uh,
that like circular thing called the halo that you see
over the cars that saved Louis from having his head
crushed by Max's car. The fans are just bit like
(13:00):
feral at this point. Racist messages, including monkey emojis and
other racial abuse came off to Hamilton's fought back from
a ten second panel. Racist abuse directed at Lewis Hamilton's
is unacceptable, and we've removed a number of comments from Instagram.
The one thing I think all fans can agree on
is that race control. You know, the f I A
these kind of people who govern over the sport. We're
(13:23):
really not set up to referee or moderate a good
championship battle. They hadn't had one in years there were
a lot of inconsistencies about certain penalties being called for
certain drivers or teams or situations not others. People were
not fans generally of how the season was reft, so
to speak, and so we somehow end up, through a
(13:45):
variety of means, getting to the last race of last
season and Lewis and Max are completely tied in the points. Yeah,
perfect storm, right, you're just sitting there. It was must
must watch TV. I was in Costa Rica for a wedding,
and I was up after the wedding, you know, the
next morning like six and am to watch what was
about to unfold. We've been waiting for this whole season long,
(14:08):
the finale, the title decide under the lights here and
abbys abby. It slides down away. Lewis is ahead, He's
doing well for much of the race. For the first
you know, fifty or so laps, it's really looking like
a Louis win. Then with only a couple of laps
to go in the final race of the season, a
driver from your Darling team Williams, a man named Nicholas
(14:29):
Latifi crashes and when there's a crash where they need
to clear the debris, in the car and make sure
the driver's okay. They usually issue what's called a safety car.
Basically the drivers have to slow down. You know, it
forced them to get to the side of the track.
They can't be passing anyone. You know. The whole idea
is to keep the race going. Why aren't we getting
these from lap cars out of the way and just
keep close Christian, just keep me a second. You know,
(14:53):
Lewis is in first place, Max is in second, but Max,
because of where they were in the race, is actually
behind several cars who Lewis had lapped, and so normally,
you know, it takes a little time, even if you're
faster on these cars to get around them. That's just
how race car driving works. What ends up happening is
that the race director, this guy named Michael Massey whose
name is now living in infamy. Essentially, Michael Massey makes
(15:15):
a call where he allows Max to kind of go
ahead of these lap cars and not they call it
unlapping themselves, so he doesn't have to fight around them
because they're on the last lap of the race. This confusion,
but the safety car is coming in at the end
of this lap, so they those backmarkers allowed, So I
(15:36):
would say the safety car, and Michael Massey makes this
decision because they want a race to actually happen. And
the big problem with this for Stefan has the faster,
fresher tires. We've talked about tire strategy and all these
other things that go into a Formula One race. So
Max actually has fresher tires than Lewis. So obviously, given
(15:56):
that his tires are a lot newer, he's able to
pass Lewis Hamilton's on the last lap. He's gonna make
the luge inside how about it? Says it coming, it's
a light large barbs dapper and wins the Formula One
Championship for the driver's title. Let's started with controversy, has
ending with controversy. Biking no no. Mike Mercedes still wins
(16:19):
the Constructor's Championship, but he denies Louis his eighth world title,
which would make him the winningest driver in in Formula
history definitively, and that's Max's win. The problem is his
his world title for season comes with this weird asterisk, right, Yeah,
Like it's this weird sort of setup where it's like,
well he's not even allowed. Yeah, So this has created
(16:42):
a lot of a lot of drama after the fact.
We're breaking news to bring you from the world of
Formula One. This time the f i A say that
Michael Massey has lost his role as the current race director.
They put him in another position in the f i A.
He's just not race direct right. Yeah, but I mean this,
this doesn't matter to me. If you're a race director,
the head of Formula One, there should just be systems
(17:03):
in place that that doesn't even allow that. That's like saying, Okay,
NBA teams, we had someone run on the court, but
now you get ten extra points. I mean it's just nuts. Yeah.
That being said, did Max do anything wrong? I think
no one would would argue that Max isn't capable of
winning a World Driver's title. Right. He was right in
there all season. He's had some phenomenal races. Just a
fast guy. And look, I also personally, just speaking for myself,
(17:27):
I do not fault Max for taking advantage of the
situation he was given, right, you gotta he did. He'd
exactly what they said there. I think you can you
can get past these cars having to fight them for it.
You know, he had fresher tires, which again was just
a lucky strategic call and it it was just one lap left.
There's one lap left when the safety car was taken out. Also,
Lewis allowed himself to be overtaken. Well, he was just
(17:49):
not his car wasn't gonna be as fast as with
tires that were old. So so then you could make
the argument, and I'm playing Devil's advocate both sides here,
you can make the argument that Max and his team
managed the car are better exactly. Yeah, I can just
say they lucked out. They're able to get new tires
on at a time. You know, they obviously don't know
that Nicholas latif he's going to crash into a wall
with a couple of laps left. So that's I would
(18:09):
say Max's deal. So in terms of how Max is
doing coming into this two season, I will say he
had a rough start the first race. Both Red Bull
cars end up not finishing, and Max was understandably not
pleased as the rating world champion who already has a
little bit of a chip on his shoulder coming in
(18:33):
as of this recording. Things got a lot better after
those first couple of races. He has been called dominant
by some in the press this season. There's still a
lot of two season to go, so it's definitely too
early to just call it. But I think if Max
was hoping to have a season where no one could
dispute that he was the champion, He's definitely on his
(18:55):
way to getting there where there wouldn't be a single
asterisk or any weirdness or a keyness around him taking
that title. We'll be right back after this break. It
will be faster than a red bull pit stop. Who's
on the other side of the garage, So across the
garage we have Sergio Checko Perez, who has a completely
(19:16):
different vibe than backs for staffing in every way, shape
or form. So the quick stats Checko is thirty two
years old as of this recording. He is a father
too too soon to be three kids. He's married, and
he's from Mexico, and that's a big deal for many reasons,
including sponsorship wise, checko career in general has been largely
(19:38):
funded by Carlo Slim, the billionaire, and a lot of
his companies sponsored Checko, so you'll see the Claro logo
on all sorts of stuff over the years. That's also
been actually a reason why Checko has sometimes been preferred
over other drivers by teams. Is Hey, this guy's gonna
bring all this money, especially money that we don't necessarily
see into the sport. You mean Latin American money, exactly. Yeah.
(19:59):
So you know, Carlo Slim isn't sponsoring any other drivers
in the same way he's sponsoring Checho Perez. Uh. Something
else about Checko He is very Catholic. At one point
he kept a photo of the late Pope John Paul
the Second in his F one car. Yes, baby, you
(20:24):
know what, whatever keeps you safe, whatever it gives you
that little bit of edge you have, it's superstition or
something like he it seems to work for him. He's
has one of the longest careers currently. Yeah, I love
that about him. I love that he's thirty two. I
love that family seems to be important. And this is
based off of what you've just told me. I don't
(20:44):
really know what these guys do them their private time,
but so yeah, So, as I said, Checho has one
of the longest running careers, especially enough one right now.
So he's been in the sport for well over a decade, which, again,
in a sport where every race could be your last
is pretty impressive. Impressive. Why has Checko stuck around for
so long? Really? Why has Checho stuck around? So? A
couple of things. One, he does have great sponsorship with
(21:06):
people like Carlo Slim. So if you're bringing in money,
you know you can afford to have a little more
wiggle room in terms of if things aren't going perfectly
or super swell. But what do you mean you're bigging
in money because because it's not like the Formula One
gets the money from from Slim, you're saying because he
is funded or because he makes money from the endorsements
(21:30):
that somehow I don't understand. So a lot of times
these sponsors for individual drivers, that money goes to the team,
So they bring in money for the teams. They might say,
you know, hey, Carloston will say I'm gonna give Red
Bull thirty million dollars or whatever it is, and they'll say, okay,
that's that's a huge chunk of change. That helps a
lot exactly. So so if you have some of these sponsors,
it can just get you a little bit more more
(21:51):
time if things aren't going well. He's a driver who
came into Formula One as a page driver, He didn't
get into forming one purely based on you know, office talent.
This is f one expert I'll just kevlowskis. But the
reason why I'm a fan of him is that very
quickly we realized this guy is not here just off
the back of his money. He has got talent, and
no one calls him a paid driver anymore. The way
(22:11):
he's been going around teams, he has been there for
a reason. He had to grind his way. He's not
a household name like a maximust happen. But yeah, he
finally got into Red Bull, you know the team that
is basically Max's team. Everyone knew it, there's no kind
of denying it. So check is known as a very
consistent driver and a well rounded driver, but in particular
he can be really really good at defending pack up,
(22:33):
brilliant job, brilliant the stuff. And he's also very good
at things like tire conservation, which means if they say, hey, Checko,
we need you to kind of last out on the track,
we we can't pit stop you for another like twenty
laps and and you know this will help our strategy,
particularly to help another driver win. We need you to
just make sure, you don't, you know, blow through your
tires or do something, you know, make them too cold
(22:55):
or too hot. He's very good at just staying out
there and doing whatever they need him to do. So
for a team, you know, having a reliable, consistent, solid
driver who you know might not be the you know,
a Max for Staffen in terms of quickness, but but
it's still very fast and can do well. You know,
having that that reliability can be super great for a team.
So what makes the Checko and Max dynamic very interesting
(23:18):
is the fact that they actually get along. It's been
really enjoyable working with Checko. I think we respect each
other a lot. We helped the team forward because we
always trying to love for the same thing. It's been
a really enjoyable ownership. Yeah, seems like Max is definitely
benefiting from this relationship. Obviously, I'm sure about to be like,
what does check out of it? But so, what's interesting
(23:40):
about Red Bull They've always had issues with their two
drivers not getting along, having you know, inner team rivalries,
having them you know, funk up each other's races and
whatnot over these rivalries, and and all of these issues
only multiplied when Max for Staffen came in as this
chipper young teenager, and Red Bull made it very clear
that this was their dude for like the foreseeable future,
(24:01):
Like they were putting all the eggs in the Max
for Staff in basket. So, as we've discussed, most teams
have a number one and number two driver, and that's
kind of the dynamic, and understandably, most people do not
want to be a number two driver. You wouldn't be
an F one unless you were gunning for that world title.
There's no point in being in the sport. So what
started to happen is a very popular driver named Daniel Ricardo,
(24:25):
who will meet very very soon. But Dania Ricardo was
a longtime Red Bull driver. He was part of their
you know young driver development program, very well known and
very well liked by the public. He announces he's leaving,
and a big part of that reason is he started
to feel like despite his own successes, despite being older
than Max for Staff, in having more wins, etcetera, he
was being kind of edged out and kind of made
(24:47):
to be the number two. So Daniel Ricardo leaves kind
of somewhat unexpectedly, Red Bull fills that seat with another
driver who we will talk about soon named Pierre Ghastly.
Uh remember when we said that Red Bull will happily
just yank people from seats. Well, Pierre had a rough
start taking over that number two seat to Max, and
he is yanked, not even necessarily like halfway. They proceed
(25:09):
to put another driver who now actually races for your
team Williams, named Alex Alban. He also, like the revolving
door continues. He's out within a year and a half,
and interestingly, both Alex and Pierre their careers did suffer
as a result, so Pierre was dropped down to that
sister team which then was called Toro Rosso now Alpha Towery.
(25:31):
Alex Alban actually was taken out of the sport of
f one for a year. He's only just come back,
so so their careers were damaged by that would then
be can't became known as the cursed number two seats, right,
the cursed Red Bull number two seat. So of course
Red bulls aware that they're starting to get this reputation.
They also are aware that, hey, it seems, you know,
this is just not us. Pulling from our current stable
(25:51):
of drivers is not working out quite well. So they
pull a very interesting move and they bring in Checko.
I think if you go into its team knowing that
you are a number two driver, there is something about
that in your headspace that makes it acceptable to you.
That was Jenny Go again. You know you are there
is a supporting role, and at Red Bull they clearly
(26:13):
define that. I think Sergey Paris knows that he is
fortunate to have found himself in a championship winning car.
He's getting paid a lot of money to be there,
and some drivers can make peace with that better than others. Now,
whether Paris has made peace with that entirely, I doubt it,
(26:34):
but you never know. Maybe I just googled check out
Pere's salary and it says eight million a year, and
it says Max million a year. Yeah, and they think
it's more for Max, now okay, and you know there's
still endorsements. I mean, he's the other thing is getting
paid very well. Yes, I mean I would be second
(26:55):
fiddle for a lot less than that. But the reason
I'm not first fiddle in anything is because I don't
have that ego that that gets you in informing the
one seat at all um. But I do think as
you get older, as you have kids, you start to go,
I love racing, I love my job. I love the
(27:16):
collaboration of a team moving towards a specific goal. And
maybe it also I love eight million dollars. I'm sure, Checko,
I'm sure all that plays in totally. He's a real
team player as a driver. Motorsports journalist Hazel Southwell, people
who've seen Drives five might not realize this because it
wasn't quite portrayed very well in the show. Um, he's
(27:39):
also someone who has managed to not get totally crushed
by the existentially destructive experience of being Max Verstaffen's teammate. Um,
which you know he's the first. Yeah, like I said,
it will be interesting to see at what point Red
Bull says, Hey, we're ready to kind of dip back
into our pool of young talent. And I've always said
(28:01):
it's going to be interesting when they find the new
max for stepping and current max for stapping is no
longer the it guy. What happens, It'll always be interesting
in sport when the max for stapping is then asked
to become the Checho Perez. That'll always be fun. So, Michael,
we have spent two episodes now talking about Red Bull.
(28:24):
You now know about two teams on the grids the
way there. First of all, what do you think of
Red Bull as a team, and what do you think
of these drivers? That's that's the that's my empty red Bull.
I finished a Red Bull this episode. I don't like Christian.
He seems like a whiny over ACTI team principal. Uh Max,
(28:47):
I'm not in love with either. Okay, to be specific,
he seems like a lot of these tennis kids I
grew up with that all they knew had it was
to play tennis. But then you'd ask them the most
simple question, like locate England on a map, and they
(29:07):
don't even They couldn't do anything. They couldn't do anything else.
Right now, I'm just really distilling it down here. Love
the Checko Perez character. Love that he's a family man,
Love that he's willing to play defense for the young
up and comer who who you know, has already arrived
in a lot of ways. I love a great team player,
(29:30):
and I find it interesting that you you like I
don't know if i'd say both George and Checho are underdogs,
but these sort of not the champion dies on both
for sure. I mean, I I like the people that
get the least amount of credit that I think really
do the dirty work. I have always liked those people
in sport, the Scottie Pippens, you know. Uh, and I
(29:50):
hope they sleep well at night because they are world
class at their endeavor. But they're just not getting the
same credit that the other person. So I find it
all very interesting. And what I do love about the
Red Bull team is that this is not Lexis, this
is not Mercedes, this is not Croquet. This is a
(30:13):
working class energy drink for truckers, do you know what
I mean? So I like, I really do like that. Uh.
And I also think Christian is doing a lot of
what team principal head coaches need to do, which is
I am gonna lead by example for the belief in
the competitiveness that I want you to have. So he's
very you know, extroverted in his display of that. So
(30:37):
he leads by example. The question is if we like
the example. Yeah, I don't know if I like the example,
And I think it's a lot of bark. But uh,
but I can see now thanks to you, Lily, why
this Mercedes Red Bull rivalry is really fun. Yeah. Yeah,
it's just so different in a lot of ways. So
how are you feeling when you compare a Mercedes to
(30:58):
a Red Bull? Yeah? Well, I I used the word
class and I said that I felt like Team red
Bull was lacking that. And I would probably still stick
with that, and I would say that Mercedes probably on
on brand for them, feels like they they have class.
If I had to pick between these two teams right now,
(31:19):
I'm going to contradict myself. I would probably go with Mercedes.
Is that interesting? Not? Need to need more? I need?
I need more teams. You need, need more teams, I
need more teams. Um, I've got a feeling I'm going
to pick a different team than these two. Well, you know,
we don't rock into Williams for a while. Yeah, I know,
But I like Williams, but I have no idea why
I like. So who's next week? So next week we
(31:49):
have our final two parter and we're talking about the
most historic team on the grid, not Williams. We are
talking about Ferrari. Yes, I mean I used to have
Ferrari posters up in my bedroom as a kid. There
we go. So Ferrari is the only team on the
(32:11):
F one grid that has participated in every single year
of the official Formula One Championship going back to So
we've got a team with history, we've got some very
very hot Italian tempers, we've got controversial leadership. We have
got an interesting pairing of drivers who are probably the
most evenly matched on the grid, which is going to
(32:33):
create some some fireworks. And they actually have a car
that might challenge for the championship this year. So we've
got a really fun two episodes coming all about the
most venerable team on the grid theoretically. I can't wait
to learn about it. Excellent. This has been Choosing Sides
(32:57):
f one, a production of Sports Illustrated Studios and I
Heart Radio. The show was hosted by Michael Costa and
Lily herb. This episode was produced by Lily Herman and
our senior producer hi Mi Taal, who also did the
sound design at the Cutting Room Studios. We are recorded
by engineer Robot Leary. The second mastering by Cello Weisblu.
(33:22):
Max Miller is the executive producer and Brannan get Us
his head of Audio at s I Studios. At I
Heart Radio, Sean Titone is our executive producer for more
podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app,
Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts, and don't
forget to rate us and tell your friends. It'll mean
(33:43):
a lot
Host
Michael Kosta
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