March 1, 2025 • 22 mins
Our guest is The Honorable Judge Cody Williams—a former Council member for the City of Phoenix and a Justice of the Peace for Maricopa County. He served as a council member for 8 years and as a judge for 15 years.
In the second half of the show, we discuss the many lawsuits that have been filed against the Trump administration and Elon Musk. We try to identify the strategy behind Trump’s many executive orders, and the ways that democrats can be successful in combating these initiatives in the courts.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Keep on riding with it, says. We continue to broadcast
the balance and defend the discourse from the Hip Hop
Weekly Studios. Welcome back to Civic Cipher Iron your host
Ramsay's Jock Q Ward is indisposed at the moment. He
is out changing the world in other ways, but trust
and believe he will be back next week. Have no
fear though. We are in the studio with the one,
the only, the Honorable Judge Cody Williams, who is a
(00:23):
former city council member for the City of Phoenix and
a Justice of the Peace for Maricopa County. He served
as a council member for eight years and as a
judge for fifteen years. We are in the process of
breaking down the judicial branch of the United States of
America for folks who might not be intimately familiar with it.
And you know, we couldn't have a better guest, So
(00:45):
thank you so much for sticking around for the second time.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Pleasure. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Yeah, And we are going to actually delve into the
weeds a bit and kind of get a sense of
some of the trials and the lawsuits that are taking
place at the federal level. So stick around for that,
and so much more. Before we get there, it is
time to discuss Baba becoming a better ally. And today's
Baba is coming from the New York Times, and this
(01:09):
is kind of a cool story, Q, and I wanted
to share it with you for folks that don't know.
This did have its viral moment. But I'll share again
from the New York Times. When he was an NFL punter,
the Minnesota Vikings punter Chris Klue was known for speaking out. Sorry,
I'm not a sports guy. This is Q's thing anyway.
(01:30):
He hasn't stopped in retirement. Mister Clue was arrested in
Huntington Beach, California, on Tuesday night and charged with disturbing
a city council meeting. He was objecting to plans for
a plaque celebrating the fiftieth anniversary of the Huntingdon Beach
Central Library, which included the words magical, alluring, galvanizing, and adventurous,
the first letters of which spell MAGA, President trump slogan
(01:52):
meaning make America great again. Quote. Everyone is in favor
of a plaque to celebrate the library, but the vast,
vast majority are against including a maga acrostic. He said,
standing at a lectern with a microphone, goes on to say, unfortunately,
it's clear that this council does not listen. MAGA is
explicitly a Nazi movement, he said, drawing applause. You may
(02:14):
have replaced a swastika with a red hat, but that
is what it is saying. He would now engage in
the time honored American tradition of peaceful civil disobedience. He
took a few steps toward the front of the room
where council members were sitting, and police officers rushed to
detain him. A councilman announced a five minute recess and
cameras cut away for several moments. So the reason we
(02:37):
wanted to shout him out is because, of course, you know,
people that have a profile, higher profile, people that are brave,
people that can speak out and are not given to cowardice,
that do so deserve to be uplifted. It takes all
of us, and especially for people like him, people that
come from means, to risk his freedom. That way, we
salute you. You are an example of becase make a
(03:00):
better ally. Okay, the honorable Judge Cody Williams, you have
long been a hero of mine, someone that. I mean,
you don't think about it when you're a kid and
you're like going to go play basketball, and you're you know,
(03:24):
getting out of college and you're you know, trying to
go hang out where the where the girls are, and
you know all that sort of stuff, and you see
your name around the city, and of course I was connected,
so I would see you at different events here and there,
speaking to now refer to you as the honorable uh
Judge Cody Williams. It's it feels special because you are
(03:48):
always that sort of like north star for a lot
of us, and to know that you were still forging
that path even further, it feels special. It's it's so inneron.
I cannot thank you enough for taking the time.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Thank you for the kind words. And you know I
felt the same way. I've spoken to you know, on
average ten fifteen thousand people a year, and you'd never
know when that person is going to walk up to you.
And that you came to my high school, yes, seven
years ago, eight years ago, and because of what you said.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
I see that I did, yes exactly.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
And because of that, you know, now I'm married, I
got two children. You know, I've been with the company
that I'm with and how you know, and I may
not recognize them, I may remember that I spoke at
that place some time ago, but it's always rewarding to
see it. You know how many times I've walked somewhere
(04:49):
and you married my cousin. You know, I was at
the wedding that you performed, and you know, just to
to think that that maybe I've had a positive influence
on the lives of others is what I set out
to us. My parents did, my family's done for years,
my wife has done, my children are are pursuing. So
(05:12):
it's important for me to stay connected. Certainly, the older
I get, the more young other things get and the
more pointed. But we've literally we're in a process, as
you sort of led this segment to almost turning the
plot back as it relates to what we face in
this country with the administration that we have right now
(05:38):
in just thirty days, approximately thirty days.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Yeah, so let's talk about that.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
So here we are.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Republicans control all the levers of government, particularly the Supreme
Court has a decidedly conservative majority. Democrats that the opposition party,
the party that has slowed the radicalization in a in
(06:15):
a in a right word. Direction of this country are
as helpless as I've ever seen them, except in the courts.
They can hold Republicans to the Constitution of the United
States of America. Is this constitutional? Is this not constitutional?
(06:38):
And this is where the battle is being waged now.
I happen to know that Democrats aren't going to win
every case. I just I just doesn't feel realistic to
assume that, especially given the fact that appeals are possible,
(07:03):
and if you appeal something enough times, conceivably it could
get to the Supreme Court, where again there's a decidedly
conservative majority, and so even that lever of government is there.
But it is not impossible to slow things down until
such a time as midterm elections come around, maybe even
slow a few things down long enough to where another
(07:25):
election and everyone decides if this is the path we
want to stay on, or if we want.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
To revert Ramsey's side. You don't need me here. What
you've just You've laid it out. You've said everything that
I would say to you. I would I would would
would would start if you will allow you?
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Yes, please, I'm guessing.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
No, no, no, you're not guessing. You are laying out
strategy okay, because what you're talking about a strategy. But
but I want your listeners to first be able to
appreciate two things. In the past three decades, Donald Trump
and or his comp have been involved with over four
(08:02):
thousand legal cases lawsuits. Many of them are them being
the prosecutors where let's say they're suing a property because
the people aren't paying their hoa dues versus the opposite
side where plaintiffs may be suing him for not returning
(08:24):
monies that are over today. But over that three decades,
Donald Trump and his supporters and his friends and his
allies have never been afraid to be in the courts.
Being in the court is part of their business strategy.
(08:47):
Second thing, in the approximately thirty days from the twentieth
when he was sworn in to where we are right
now a little over thirty days, ish give her turkey,
there have been seventy five lawsuits brought against him and
(09:07):
his administration in thirty days, and most of them. Of
those seventy five are cases that involve blocking actions that
he has taken via his executive orders. Now appreciate the
(09:30):
strategy behind this. I'm going to say, and I am
going to do everything that I've said. I don't care
how radical it is. I don't care if I'm firing people.
I don't care if it's about buy out money. I
don't care. If it's about transgender issues. I don't care.
If it's about DEI, I don't care immigration. Whatever it is,
(09:54):
I'm writing it as an executive order. Now. Executive orders
are are literally made for opposition. My executive order to
you know, tell everybody to say good morning to one another.
You may not like that, and you can file a
(10:15):
lawsuit against me. Well, that is what is happening, both
with employees like Treasury Department employees, Igher Realm, anybody that
can be affected by those particular executive orders, some of
them immigration base, I think about nineteen or twenty in
the immigration world and those places, and a lot of
(10:38):
others that go in there, and many of them may
not be specifically against Trump or Elon Musk, but there
are some that are specifically against Elon Musk, specifically against
the President, specifically named as department heads, current department heads
that were just added on. And so from two sides
(11:01):
of the strategy, if I'm the president, I'm throwing it
all out there. I'm getting everything I want out on
the table, and I am basically daring the people suing
me to place them in various courts. And I'm going
to take my time, so as long as it's happening immediately,
(11:22):
unless somebody says we're gonna hold this, I'm a judge.
See it happening before I rule on, I'm will to
freeze this particular action. But there are also judges who
are being asked to allow people to come back to
jobs that they have been terminated from. That requires some research,
that requires some others.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
So the judges have a power here that I'm just
learning about. They can allow these executive orders to more
or less exist in an operational in operational mode until
they weigh in with their decision, or they can freeze it.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Absolutely weigh in they do have you are absolutely correct.
So so what you are hoping for is that they
freeze it depending on who you may be. And so,
and I want you to imagine that many of these
deal with states that have you know, the state of
Maine is involved with one. You've got Illinois, You've got
(12:20):
some Washington, state of Washington has several of them. There's
a list that if you just google it. You know
you'll see almost you'll see every one of us suits
and those are that's millions of people affected, Republicans and Democrats.
So go back to the second side, the democratic side,
(12:41):
which you just described. There are three elections, special elections
that are coming up to replace appointees that Trump made
from Congress, and so if those three places stay Republican,
then this process is going to intention. If throw those
(13:01):
three positions in the various parts of the country flip
to Democrats, we will have a majority in one of
the houses. Nothing that's that trusts me. You you are superstars.
And so what you're saying about waiting out this two
year period, so if I'm over here, my strategy is
to throw in as much junk as I can. I
(13:24):
don't care how crazy I may be. I'm signing it
into as an indexecutive order, and I'm giving my department
heads the ability to make those same statements and initiate
those things within their organizational structure. And so when those
lawsuits come, you're hoping, you're praying that they get held
up in the action frozen, versus allowing those things to
(13:49):
continue to happen until a judge and he has hearings
and these things. Again, both sides could go on from
months and months in my years tied up, and so
the congrus this is the third piece, is sort of
the most important piece. It goes back to your question
about whether the president can make these changes when I
(14:13):
said no, many of the changes that he would want
to make constitutionally. While the Republican majority exist in both houses,
they are not fifty fifty plus one votes. They're not
who has the majority, it's actually there. Many of them
(14:35):
have a sixty forty kind of requirement, or some of
them have different makeups of the number of votes they
have to have in order to pass. And for what
it's worth, and I know a lot of Republican, very
good minded, want to do the right thing. And there
(14:55):
are some of them who will not stand for some
of the constitutional because they are constitutionalists as well, and
they understand that when our forefathers created this Constitution, that
it was designed to create equality, not dictatorship. Yes, and
that's what happens if you continue to change the Constitution.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
So let me ask this. I think somewhere in here
is where we find out. I mean, it's very easy
to see why a lot of people are frustrated with
Elon Musk in his position, But why it's particularly hurtful
and it's disconnected from the democratic process, why it feels
(15:42):
so so deeply upsetting for many people. I think we're
finding it right here because Elon Musk, for for all
intents and purposes, has just been able to do what
he wants terrorize people. And it's all been with the
stroke of a and people have not elected this man,
(16:03):
and it's almost like he flies above the consequence and
he's protected by the executive branch somehow. And for many
of us who've never seen anything like this before, we're like,
how is this even possible? I did a segment on
the Black Information Network recently where I was discussing how
(16:26):
federal jobs really granted access to Black Americans to the
middle class because they were federally protected, despite their race,
despite their back as long as they were qualified to
do the job, they could do it, and it came
with benefits and stability and so forth. And then Elon Musk,
with the stroke of a pen, is able to say
you're all fired, except this money before September or whatever day. Right,
(16:49):
And that's one of the lawsuits, right, right, and so
I think that this is where we start to figure
out why this is particularly upsetting again because this was
not a part of any one's plan, even even again
well intentioned Black Republicans that voted for Donald Trump did
not anticipate this. And so this, again, this part is
(17:11):
is particularly unsettling. And add to that that, you know,
there are a lot of people who I mean, they
understood the far rights approach to DEI that whatever it was,
whatever they're reasoning for, because it sounds really good.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Market it's a marketing it's a marketing effort. You know.
DEI is new, is a new conversation. It's something that
someone figured out that if we can say diversity, equity,
and inclusion, we can build an energy around being opposed
(17:49):
to it, while those who need or benefit from it,
who may fall in one of those two or three categories,
never have the same kind kind of of momentum to
fight back. And so if you can you know, when
I was the director of Equal Opera excuse me, the
(18:13):
equity efforts in the City of Phoenix. It was to
make sure black business has had an opportunity to participate
in government contract.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
You were the Equal Opportunity Director correct equal in that
in that equal opportunity space, I was the small business
minority owned business director.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
I was the person who was at those meetings working
with contractors, primarily white contractors, to make sure that they
hired individual small businesses to use some of the money
that tax payers were giving them to build those facilities.
But when you start to think about the fact that
we live in one of the most diverse countries in
(18:59):
the United in the world world, I mean, we have
people from all races literally from day one, that are here.
When we talk about equity and we talk about inclusion,
if there is a job opening and there are five
(19:20):
interviews that are going to take place and all five
of them are white males, inclusion does not say take
two black folk and kick two of these white folk
out of these five.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
It says interview them too.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Yes, it says interview seven, okay, because what you don't
know is who the most qualified individual is. Okay, And
there is even some discretion in that terminology. You know,
what you look like on paper may not be what
(19:59):
you are you're sitting in the interview or what you
may be doing in the job one may require more
communication skills and your ability to get people motivated and
do things. Another one may require you to do research
where you sit in a rule and gather numbers.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Okay, so let me ask you this because before this
recent phase of attacks on DEI, and we only have
about a minute or so, there was the weakening of
affirmative action, and we covered that story on the Black
Information Network as well, and that was very scary. That
was a blow because my whole life, affirmative action had
(20:36):
sought to bring about some equity to the to the
lay of the land in terms of employment, in terms
of education, et cetera. And the Supreme Court did that
with a conservative majority in the Supreme Court. Even if
Democrats get the White House and get one or both
chambers of Congress, does the Supreme Court ultimately block the
(20:59):
efforts to that a lot of black folks and marginalized
folks would want to see in terms of bringing about
a more equitable.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
That's a good question. I don't know where the mindset
will be because they will be seeing a tremendous flood.
This is happening so quickly. Judges are being a.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Step band and calls it muzzle.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Yes, it is moving very very fast. Is going through
the court system. Some of them will be addressed at
the district level, others will go all the way up
to the Supreme Court. I think the first one is
already on its way. So what we have to hope
for is that you know that the rest of the
elected bodies in Congress don't allow Donald Trump to be
(21:41):
a dictator. Because the way he describes how impactful the
individuals are that are black, are disabled, it sounds very
much like he's an aryan. If you're only six two
and white and blue hair, blue eyes and hair, that's all.
It's only people that can do a job, and that's
just not true.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Well, listen, I appreciate you taking the time. Of course,
we're going to have to have you back. It's always
a joy and I always learn something. But my hope,
of course is that our listeners learn something. And I
do believe that to be true. You are a hero
and a scholar and a gentleman and all the other things.
(22:21):
Once again, our guest has been the Honorable Judge Cody Williams,
former council member for the City of Phoenix and Justice
is the Piece for America County, who served as a
council member for eight years a judge for fifteen years
before we let you go any website, social media, anything
like that. You want to.
Speaker 4 (22:34):
Plug watch Ramse's job, Okay, I'll take that, you know,
and I'm going to count on him to keep me
in the moop.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
So when they call you and they're mad at me
for what I said, you let me know. I'll do
it and we'll work that out on the next time
I come in.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Okay, Well, follow me on all social media at Ramsey's job, qboard,
I am Qward and Civic Cipher. At Civic Cipher
Keep on riding with it, says. We continue to broadcast
the balance and defend the discourse from the Hip Hop
Weekly Studios. Welcome back to Civic Cipher Iron your host
Ramsay's Jock Q Ward is indisposed at the moment. He
is out changing the world in other ways, but trust
and believe he will be back next week. Have no
fear though. We are in the studio with the one,
the only, the Honorable Judge Cody Williams, who is a
(00:23):
former city council member for the City of Phoenix and
a Justice of the Peace for Maricopa County. He served
as a council member for eight years and as a
judge for fifteen years. We are in the process of
breaking down the judicial branch of the United States of
America for folks who might not be intimately familiar with it.
And you know, we couldn't have a better guest, So
(00:45):
thank you so much for sticking around for the second time.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Pleasure. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
Yeah, And we are going to actually delve into the
weeds a bit and kind of get a sense of
some of the trials and the lawsuits that are taking
place at the federal level. So stick around for that,
and so much more. Before we get there, it is
time to discuss Baba becoming a better ally. And today's
Baba is coming from the New York Times, and this
(01:09):
is kind of a cool story, Q, and I wanted
to share it with you for folks that don't know.
This did have its viral moment. But I'll share again
from the New York Times. When he was an NFL punter,
the Minnesota Vikings punter Chris Klue was known for speaking out. Sorry,
I'm not a sports guy. This is Q's thing anyway.
(01:30):
He hasn't stopped in retirement. Mister Clue was arrested in
Huntington Beach, California, on Tuesday night and charged with disturbing
a city council meeting. He was objecting to plans for
a plaque celebrating the fiftieth anniversary of the Huntingdon Beach
Central Library, which included the words magical, alluring, galvanizing, and adventurous,
the first letters of which spell MAGA, President trump slogan
(01:52):
meaning make America great again. Quote. Everyone is in favor
of a plaque to celebrate the library, but the vast,
vast majority are against including a maga acrostic. He said,
standing at a lectern with a microphone, goes on to say, unfortunately,
it's clear that this council does not listen. MAGA is
explicitly a Nazi movement, he said, drawing applause. You may
(02:14):
have replaced a swastika with a red hat, but that
is what it is saying. He would now engage in
the time honored American tradition of peaceful civil disobedience. He
took a few steps toward the front of the room
where council members were sitting, and police officers rushed to
detain him. A councilman announced a five minute recess and
cameras cut away for several moments. So the reason we
(02:37):
wanted to shout him out is because, of course, you know,
people that have a profile, higher profile, people that are brave,
people that can speak out and are not given to cowardice,
that do so deserve to be uplifted. It takes all
of us, and especially for people like him, people that
come from means, to risk his freedom. That way, we
salute you. You are an example of becase make a
(03:00):
better ally. Okay, the honorable Judge Cody Williams, you have
long been a hero of mine, someone that. I mean,
you don't think about it when you're a kid and
you're like going to go play basketball, and you're you know,
(03:24):
getting out of college and you're you know, trying to
go hang out where the where the girls are, and
you know all that sort of stuff, and you see
your name around the city, and of course I was connected,
so I would see you at different events here and there,
speaking to now refer to you as the honorable uh
Judge Cody Williams. It's it feels special because you are
(03:48):
always that sort of like north star for a lot
of us, and to know that you were still forging
that path even further, it feels special. It's it's so inneron.
I cannot thank you enough for taking the time.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Thank you for the kind words. And you know I
felt the same way. I've spoken to you know, on
average ten fifteen thousand people a year, and you'd never
know when that person is going to walk up to you.
And that you came to my high school, yes, seven
years ago, eight years ago, and because of what you said.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
I see that I did, yes exactly.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
And because of that, you know, now I'm married, I
got two children. You know, I've been with the company
that I'm with and how you know, and I may
not recognize them, I may remember that I spoke at
that place some time ago, but it's always rewarding to
see it. You know how many times I've walked somewhere
(04:49):
and you married my cousin. You know, I was at
the wedding that you performed, and you know, just to
to think that that maybe I've had a positive influence
on the lives of others is what I set out
to us. My parents did, my family's done for years,
my wife has done, my children are are pursuing. So
(05:12):
it's important for me to stay connected. Certainly, the older
I get, the more young other things get and the
more pointed. But we've literally we're in a process, as
you sort of led this segment to almost turning the
plot back as it relates to what we face in
this country with the administration that we have right now
(05:38):
in just thirty days, approximately thirty days.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Yeah, so let's talk about that.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
So here we are.
Speaker 1 (05:50):
Republicans control all the levers of government, particularly the Supreme
Court has a decidedly conservative majority. Democrats that the opposition party,
the party that has slowed the radicalization in a in
(06:15):
a in a right word. Direction of this country are
as helpless as I've ever seen them, except in the courts.
They can hold Republicans to the Constitution of the United
States of America. Is this constitutional? Is this not constitutional?
(06:38):
And this is where the battle is being waged now.
I happen to know that Democrats aren't going to win
every case. I just I just doesn't feel realistic to
assume that, especially given the fact that appeals are possible,
(07:03):
and if you appeal something enough times, conceivably it could
get to the Supreme Court, where again there's a decidedly
conservative majority, and so even that lever of government is there.
But it is not impossible to slow things down until
such a time as midterm elections come around, maybe even
slow a few things down long enough to where another
(07:25):
election and everyone decides if this is the path we
want to stay on, or if we want.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
To revert Ramsey's side. You don't need me here. What
you've just You've laid it out. You've said everything that
I would say to you. I would I would would
would would start if you will allow you?
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Yes, please, I'm guessing.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
No, no, no, you're not guessing. You are laying out
strategy okay, because what you're talking about a strategy. But
but I want your listeners to first be able to
appreciate two things. In the past three decades, Donald Trump
and or his comp have been involved with over four
(08:02):
thousand legal cases lawsuits. Many of them are them being
the prosecutors where let's say they're suing a property because
the people aren't paying their hoa dues versus the opposite
side where plaintiffs may be suing him for not returning
(08:24):
monies that are over today. But over that three decades,
Donald Trump and his supporters and his friends and his
allies have never been afraid to be in the courts.
Being in the court is part of their business strategy.
(08:47):
Second thing, in the approximately thirty days from the twentieth
when he was sworn in to where we are right
now a little over thirty days, ish give her turkey,
there have been seventy five lawsuits brought against him and
(09:07):
his administration in thirty days, and most of them. Of
those seventy five are cases that involve blocking actions that
he has taken via his executive orders. Now appreciate the
(09:30):
strategy behind this. I'm going to say, and I am
going to do everything that I've said. I don't care
how radical it is. I don't care if I'm firing people.
I don't care if it's about buy out money. I
don't care. If it's about transgender issues. I don't care.
If it's about DEI, I don't care immigration. Whatever it is,
(09:54):
I'm writing it as an executive order. Now. Executive orders
are are literally made for opposition. My executive order to
you know, tell everybody to say good morning to one another.
You may not like that, and you can file a
(10:15):
lawsuit against me. Well, that is what is happening, both
with employees like Treasury Department employees, Igher Realm, anybody that
can be affected by those particular executive orders, some of
them immigration base, I think about nineteen or twenty in
the immigration world and those places, and a lot of
(10:38):
others that go in there, and many of them may
not be specifically against Trump or Elon Musk, but there
are some that are specifically against Elon Musk, specifically against
the President, specifically named as department heads, current department heads
that were just added on. And so from two sides
(11:01):
of the strategy, if I'm the president, I'm throwing it
all out there. I'm getting everything I want out on
the table, and I am basically daring the people suing
me to place them in various courts. And I'm going
to take my time, so as long as it's happening immediately,
(11:22):
unless somebody says we're gonna hold this, I'm a judge.
See it happening before I rule on, I'm will to
freeze this particular action. But there are also judges who
are being asked to allow people to come back to
jobs that they have been terminated from. That requires some research,
that requires some others.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
So the judges have a power here that I'm just
learning about. They can allow these executive orders to more
or less exist in an operational in operational mode until
they weigh in with their decision, or they can freeze it.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Absolutely weigh in they do have you are absolutely correct.
So so what you are hoping for is that they
freeze it depending on who you may be. And so,
and I want you to imagine that many of these
deal with states that have you know, the state of
Maine is involved with one. You've got Illinois, You've got
(12:20):
some Washington, state of Washington has several of them. There's
a list that if you just google it. You know
you'll see almost you'll see every one of us suits
and those are that's millions of people affected, Republicans and Democrats.
So go back to the second side, the democratic side,
(12:41):
which you just described. There are three elections, special elections
that are coming up to replace appointees that Trump made
from Congress, and so if those three places stay Republican,
then this process is going to intention. If throw those
(13:01):
three positions in the various parts of the country flip
to Democrats, we will have a majority in one of
the houses. Nothing that's that trusts me. You you are superstars.
And so what you're saying about waiting out this two
year period, so if I'm over here, my strategy is
to throw in as much junk as I can. I
(13:24):
don't care how crazy I may be. I'm signing it
into as an indexecutive order, and I'm giving my department
heads the ability to make those same statements and initiate
those things within their organizational structure. And so when those
lawsuits come, you're hoping, you're praying that they get held
up in the action frozen, versus allowing those things to
(13:49):
continue to happen until a judge and he has hearings
and these things. Again, both sides could go on from
months and months in my years tied up, and so
the congrus this is the third piece, is sort of
the most important piece. It goes back to your question
about whether the president can make these changes when I
(14:13):
said no, many of the changes that he would want
to make constitutionally. While the Republican majority exist in both houses,
they are not fifty fifty plus one votes. They're not
who has the majority, it's actually there. Many of them
(14:35):
have a sixty forty kind of requirement, or some of
them have different makeups of the number of votes they
have to have in order to pass. And for what
it's worth, and I know a lot of Republican, very
good minded, want to do the right thing. And there
(14:55):
are some of them who will not stand for some
of the constitutional because they are constitutionalists as well, and
they understand that when our forefathers created this Constitution, that
it was designed to create equality, not dictatorship. Yes, and
that's what happens if you continue to change the Constitution.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
So let me ask this. I think somewhere in here
is where we find out. I mean, it's very easy
to see why a lot of people are frustrated with
Elon Musk in his position, But why it's particularly hurtful
and it's disconnected from the democratic process, why it feels
(15:42):
so so deeply upsetting for many people. I think we're
finding it right here because Elon Musk, for for all
intents and purposes, has just been able to do what
he wants terrorize people. And it's all been with the
stroke of a and people have not elected this man,
(16:03):
and it's almost like he flies above the consequence and
he's protected by the executive branch somehow. And for many
of us who've never seen anything like this before, we're like,
how is this even possible? I did a segment on
the Black Information Network recently where I was discussing how
(16:26):
federal jobs really granted access to Black Americans to the
middle class because they were federally protected, despite their race,
despite their back as long as they were qualified to
do the job, they could do it, and it came
with benefits and stability and so forth. And then Elon Musk,
with the stroke of a pen, is able to say
you're all fired, except this money before September or whatever day. Right,
(16:49):
And that's one of the lawsuits, right, right, and so
I think that this is where we start to figure
out why this is particularly upsetting again because this was
not a part of any one's plan, even even again
well intentioned Black Republicans that voted for Donald Trump did
not anticipate this. And so this, again, this part is
(17:11):
is particularly unsettling. And add to that that, you know,
there are a lot of people who I mean, they
understood the far rights approach to DEI that whatever it was,
whatever they're reasoning for, because it sounds really good.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Market it's a marketing it's a marketing effort. You know.
DEI is new, is a new conversation. It's something that
someone figured out that if we can say diversity, equity,
and inclusion, we can build an energy around being opposed
(17:49):
to it, while those who need or benefit from it,
who may fall in one of those two or three categories,
never have the same kind kind of of momentum to
fight back. And so if you can you know, when
I was the director of Equal Opera excuse me, the
(18:13):
equity efforts in the City of Phoenix. It was to
make sure black business has had an opportunity to participate
in government contract.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
You were the Equal Opportunity Director correct equal in that
in that equal opportunity space, I was the small business
minority owned business director.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
I was the person who was at those meetings working
with contractors, primarily white contractors, to make sure that they
hired individual small businesses to use some of the money
that tax payers were giving them to build those facilities.
But when you start to think about the fact that
we live in one of the most diverse countries in
(18:59):
the United in the world world, I mean, we have
people from all races literally from day one, that are here.
When we talk about equity and we talk about inclusion,
if there is a job opening and there are five
(19:20):
interviews that are going to take place and all five
of them are white males, inclusion does not say take
two black folk and kick two of these white folk
out of these five.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
It says interview them too.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
Yes, it says interview seven, okay, because what you don't
know is who the most qualified individual is. Okay, And
there is even some discretion in that terminology. You know,
what you look like on paper may not be what
(19:59):
you are you're sitting in the interview or what you
may be doing in the job one may require more
communication skills and your ability to get people motivated and
do things. Another one may require you to do research
where you sit in a rule and gather numbers.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Okay, so let me ask you this because before this
recent phase of attacks on DEI, and we only have
about a minute or so, there was the weakening of
affirmative action, and we covered that story on the Black
Information Network as well, and that was very scary. That
was a blow because my whole life, affirmative action had
(20:36):
sought to bring about some equity to the to the
lay of the land in terms of employment, in terms
of education, et cetera. And the Supreme Court did that
with a conservative majority in the Supreme Court. Even if
Democrats get the White House and get one or both
chambers of Congress, does the Supreme Court ultimately block the
(20:59):
efforts to that a lot of black folks and marginalized
folks would want to see in terms of bringing about
a more equitable.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
That's a good question. I don't know where the mindset
will be because they will be seeing a tremendous flood.
This is happening so quickly. Judges are being a.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Step band and calls it muzzle.
Speaker 2 (21:18):
Yes, it is moving very very fast. Is going through
the court system. Some of them will be addressed at
the district level, others will go all the way up
to the Supreme Court. I think the first one is
already on its way. So what we have to hope
for is that you know that the rest of the
elected bodies in Congress don't allow Donald Trump to be
(21:41):
a dictator. Because the way he describes how impactful the
individuals are that are black, are disabled, it sounds very
much like he's an aryan. If you're only six two
and white and blue hair, blue eyes and hair, that's all.
It's only people that can do a job, and that's
just not true.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
Well, listen, I appreciate you taking the time. Of course,
we're going to have to have you back. It's always
a joy and I always learn something. But my hope,
of course is that our listeners learn something. And I
do believe that to be true. You are a hero
and a scholar and a gentleman and all the other things.
(22:21):
Once again, our guest has been the Honorable Judge Cody Williams,
former council member for the City of Phoenix and Justice
is the Piece for America County, who served as a
council member for eight years a judge for fifteen years
before we let you go any website, social media, anything
like that. You want to.
Speaker 4 (22:34):
Plug watch Ramse's job, Okay, I'll take that, you know,
and I'm going to count on him to keep me
in the moop.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
So when they call you and they're mad at me
for what I said, you let me know. I'll do
it and we'll work that out on the next time
I come in.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Okay, Well, follow me on all social media at Ramsey's job, qboard,
I am Qward and Civic Cipher. At Civic Cipher
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