Our guest is Melinda Grisby—known online as @browngirlpride is a social media activist, Former Air Force Medic twice deployed to Iraq, and a public speaker with a focus on history and decolonization.
In the second half of the show, we discuss the implications of this country’s colonialist roots and how Native American populations were (and continue to be) affected. Our Way Black History Fact contains the story of $5 Indians and the massive governmental fraud that further subjected Native peoples.
Support the show: https://www.patreon.com/civiccipher?utm_source=search
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Keep on riding with us as we continue to broadcast
the balance and defend the discourse from these hip hop
weekly studios. Welcome back to Civic Cipher. I am still
your host, Ramsay's Jah and Q is still traveling these
United States of America hoping to make this land better
for you and for me. But we have a special
guest that is having a fascinating conversation with us this week.
(00:23):
And she goes by the name of Melinda Grisbee. You
can find her online at Brown Girl Pride on all platforms,
and for those that don't know, she's a social media activist,
a former Air Force medic twice deployed to Iraq, and
a public speaker with a focus on history and decolonization.
And again we're right in the middle of a fascinating conversation.
(00:45):
Stick around because I got some really important questions to
ask her, not the least of which is her reaction
to this administration's haphazard approach to this country citizens. I
guess that's about as general as terms as I can
put it in. But before we get back to that conversation,
it is time to Baba become a better ally. Baba
on today's Babba comes from in Sorry ni WRC dot
(01:08):
org that stands for National Indigenous Women's Resource Center. I
want to say this again and I want to say
it right NIWRC dot org, National Indigenous Women's Resource Center.
I'll share from their website. The alarming reports of abduction
and murder of Native women highlight one of the most
devastating issues facing tribal communities. On summer reservations, Native women
(01:31):
face murder rates more than ten times in national average.
These disappearances and murders are often directly linked to domestic violence,
dating violence, sexual assault, stalking, sex trafficking, and long standing
harms impacting Indigenous communities. Understanding these connections is essential to
addressing the crisis of missing and murdered Indigenous women and relatives.
In response to this ongoing crisis, grassroots movements have grown
(01:54):
at the local, regional, national, and international levels to honor
the lives of missing and murdered Indigenous women and relatives
and to work toward lasting safety and support. May fifth
has been recognized as the National Day of Awareness for
Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Relatives, honoring Hannah Harris,
a twenty one year old woman from the Northern Cheyenne
tribe who went missing and was later found murdered in
(02:17):
twenty thirteen. Native families, advocates, and tribal nations have risen
to shine a light on the crisis, strengthen community action,
and uplift the voices of surviving family members. Together, they
continue to call for visibility, support, and positive change to
protect Indigenous women, girls, and relatives. Ini WRC is committed
to supporting families, communities, and advocates in bringing greater awareness
(02:40):
to this national crisis and in honoring the lives of
those taken too soon. For those who want to get involved,
help with policy changes, legislative action, volunteering, and of course donating,
Donating always works. Again the website INIWRC dot org. That's
the National Indigenous Women's Resource Center once again, INIWRC dot org. Okay,
(03:01):
we Linda Grisby, thank you so much again for your time.
It's it's really an honor to have you on the show.
You know, we Q and I we share this a
lot with with guests we have on. You know, we
made this show for people like you. We we're not
the people that you know I shared with you, you know,
(03:24):
before this conversation that we're DJs, you know, by profession,
we like nightclub DJs with the music and scratching and
you know, microphones, gets your hands in the air type
of thing, and of course radio personalities. And we thought
that this place needed to exist for great thinkers and
advocates and people that get beyond the music and appreciate
(03:47):
and love the people beyond hip hop, beyond R and
B that sort of stuff, right, And as we saw,
you know, people showing up for us, we know that
it it's like the Rainbow Coalition, right, we need to
show up for each other, right, because we're stronger together, right.
And I'm a big fan of Fred Hampton, and so
Rainbow Coalition ideology works really well around here. So we
(04:09):
have a symbolic roundtable in the studio and we share
this platform and we've been able to be informed and
educated by some of the greatest minds in this country.
And it is again it's an honor to add you
to that list of folks that have been able to contribute.
And we hope that this will be the beginning of
a long standing relationship. But I wanted to make sure
(04:33):
I got that out of the way and give you
some Flowers. Let's get back to the conversation. Yeah, of course.
So another video that I saw on your page was
you talking about the twenty ten Supreme Court case of
Citizens United versus the Federal Election Commission. Okay, Now, to
people that aren't really in the weeds of all this
(04:55):
sort of stuff that sounds like boring court cases, who cares.
But there's some serious implications here. So again the twenty
ten Supreme Court case Citizens United versus the Federal Election Commission.
What were the implications of this decision and share with
us how it affects today's political landscape.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Sure, that case basically ruled that corporations were now considered people.
So prior to that, individual people you and I or
rich people could donate as much money as they wanted
to a campaign, but they could never donate on behalf
of their corporations. Corporations could donate to campaigns, but it
was limited at a certain amount of money, so they couldn't
(05:38):
throw you a billion dollar corporation but behind candidate. Well,
the ruling of this when it made corporations people, that
basically allowed corporations to throw as much money as they
wanted into campaigns, into their candidates and things like that
which had detrimental effects on our politicians and how they vote.
(06:00):
Their votes are swayed. This also allows for them, the
government to get away with violating your First Amendment, your
free speech. So the First Amendment is doesn't allow the
government to quiet your speech, doesn't allow them to punish
you if you talk ill about the government or talk
(06:22):
about them in any kind of way that's bad. That's
what the First Amendment is for. It's not for private entities.
Private entities can set their own rules for what they
want in their establishments, but making corporations people allowed for
basically corporations to pay politicians what they want to get
(06:42):
what the legislation they want push and allows for politicians
to get their favor in return by having our speech
limited on social media where you often see people using
censoring themselves on social media so they don't get shadow
bend or so their videos get pushed out there. So
this is kind of their covert to censor our voices
(07:04):
and censor what we see and how they control our
algorithms by you know, doing favors for the corporations. The
corporations will do favors for them. Therefore, they're not technically,
you know, taking away our free speech and not squashing
our free speech, but they are doing it in the
back doors way. So that's a big reason why it's
(07:26):
problematic amongst the other you know, the influence on that.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Yeah, you know, and coming from somebody who's I know,
we're a shadow band on Instagram, you know. I think
we peek through on TikTok and all the rest of
the platforms from time to time, but Instagram, man as,
it feels so disheartening. It's like, well, why don't we
just delete this page? You know, But then there are
some people that seek the content out and they'll go
(07:51):
to the page. We're like, hey, look if those are
the people, you know, Tupac said he might he would
spark the mind of the next great revolutionary, and so
we kind of have that approach. It's not really numbers. Plus,
we don't play Instagram. Were radio folks, and this is
what we do. But I appreciate you sharing that with us,
because then for folks that do listen every week that
(08:12):
are like activist types and they are kind of doing
research and deep dives and sharing content with people, it
kind of helps them to know kind of what they're
up against so that they can pivot or persevere or
whatever the case is. So I appreciate you sharing that.
Another thing I want to get to one of your posts.
You have a quote says and this is like the
Democrats versus the Republicans, and this is a hot take.
(08:35):
So I wanted you to elaborate and share again for
our listeners. You say, if you're fighting for one side
or the other, meaning Democrats or Republicans, you're fighting for
one side or the other. You're fighting for colonialism and
you're anti indigenous, and that is a potent statement. So
my question is, and I don't disagree. I don't disagree.
(08:58):
I cannot disagree. You know more than I do. But
I want to ask you, what should people do. People
who've listened to our conversation so far, they'd say, hey,
this is wrong. I don't like the direction this country
is going in. We're losing freedoms, we're losing rights, we're
being very unkind to each other. This is not the
optimal future that we can create in a country as
magnificent potentially as this one can be. But given the
(09:23):
framework of this democracy, what can people do that have
hurt our conversation, want to make things better? What can
they do within the framework of this democracy while still
being mindful of our relationship with our indigenous brothers and sisters,
Because I don't think anybody that listens to the show
with any consistency wants to be anti indigenous. So talk
(09:45):
to us what should what is an ideal approach?
Speaker 2 (09:53):
I think, especially when we're talking to leftists, progressives, liberals,
I like to start. I challenge those thinkers the right,
not so much obviously, because we know what they think,
but I challenge those on the left to really ask
themselves how many times have they included Indigenous people in
(10:14):
the conversations of how this country should go? Right? I
think that's the biggest thing is that people aren't talking
to Native people, whether it's Native leaders, native activists, our
voices are very much silenced. And even with the tribal communities,
like nobody's going to them and saying, hey, you know,
(10:35):
these are your lands, what do you want us to
do with them? How do you want us to help
you guys take back your lands. We have the land
Back movement, but a lot of people say they support it.
But when you're supporting a colonial government, that is actively
still colonizing indigenous lands and people, then you are supporting colonialism.
(10:58):
So I think the biggest thing that I would challenge
people on the left to do is ask yourselves how
many Indigenous people leaders, not just random people on the internet,
but like leaders in the communities are you talking to
are you having these conversations with when it comes to,
you know, fighting and having a revolution. I think if
(11:20):
you're not including indigenous people in those conversations, you're walking
down the wrong path and at least to dangerous waters
on keeping a colonial government in our lands. And that's
not what we want as a whole, you know. Granted,
a lot of us still got to deconstruct and decolonize,
as everybody does. But I think at the end of
the day, all of our goals is to have our
(11:42):
lands back and be the stewards of our lands once again.
And I think that's the goal for indigenous people globally.
So it's not even just anti indigenous here, it's anti
indigenous globally because colonialism has affected the indigenous communities of Africa, Australia,
New Zealand, Asia and here, and even our own indigenous
communities in Europe. So being anti it's a it's a
(12:05):
global thing. It's not just here in the United States
or in the Americas. It's a to be really fully
in with what we want to do or what everybody
wants us talking about. With Palestine, Congo, all of these
things we have to deconstruct from the current government system
that is right all of it and causing all this
(12:26):
havoc in genocide.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Well, thank you for that. That reminds me that I
should once again remind our listeners, because I haven't done
it in some time, that we indeed broadcast from unseated
ancestral lens of the Akima Odam people's uh and we
(12:50):
try our best to keep that central to the narratives
that we have here. But of course we always could
do better. And one of the things that I do
pride myself on, you know, for folks that are able
to listen to the long form show around the country,
is that we do play a lot of music from
(13:10):
indigenous revolutionaries. They make some of the best music, and
so we're very familiar with the land back movement because
we find that it often makes its way into the
music for those that you know, create hip hop from
the reservation and yeah, I don't think that's too tall
in order. I think you're absolutely right, and you can
(13:32):
correct me if I'm wrong. But I feel like you've
made a point that there is no freedom, there is
no revolution, there is no next level until we've fully
paid attention to the goings on with respect to native
populations in this country. And the way you framed that,
(13:53):
I couldn't tell you which video it was because it
was such a deep dive I did, but the way
you framed it it was masterful. I was like, yeah,
that makes sense around here. Of course, we pay attention
to black women. There's a lot of data on black women.
There's you know, and and black women can serve as
as a fantastic barometer for the health of a society, right,
(14:13):
how well black women are doing how that will show
you how well the society is doing. Right. But I
think that there's a separate barometer that has even deeper
roots in this country, and note has even deeper roots
in this country. And maybe there's less data, but we
have to be the change that we want to see,
so we have to start paying attention, so there ends
(14:34):
up being more data. And so this is why conversations
like this are so important. This is a conversation that's
been a long time time. I promise we've really wanted
someone of your caliber and your intellectual capacity to come
up and share this with us. So again, I thank
you for that. Now, because we're here, there are people
(14:54):
that are that listen to this show that are probably
listening for the first time. There are people who listen
past massively because they're driving from work, or driving to work,
or you know, it's the weekend, whatever whatever their story is.
And then of course we have the people that listen
every week religiously because they're trying to get some additional
framing of their reality and ways to push back against
what they feel is a great injustice. But for the
(15:16):
folks that are just coming to the conversation that might
not know all of the history, I want you to
talk about this move by Donald Trump to rename the
Washington Commander's football team and to have them change that
(15:39):
name back to the Washington Redskins. Now, my understanding is
Redskins is an offensive term, and so I mean no offense.
But that was the name of the team for a
very long time. They finally turned over a new leaf,
had this new name, and people may not have known
the why behind that name change, and people may not
(16:00):
even know about this story Donald Trump's push to have
them change it back, which feels exceptionally regressive and it'll
be wildly expensive and offensive to a huge amount of people.
But I would imagine that your thoughts could give more
context to our listeners. Again, just coming to this conversation,
So what is your take on this.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
I think it's just another way to attack Indigenous people,
as they've done for the last five hundred years. Red
skin is a highly offensive term, and that was used
to similar in a way to kind of similar to
the word w et back right or the N word.
(16:43):
Very highly offensive and it was used very derogatorily to
Native Americans. So it also kind of continues to perpetuate
this idea that we're a mascot, you know, the indigenous
people of the lens are mascots, and still kind of
reduces down to less than human and characters versus, you know,
(17:06):
the rightful stewards of the land. So I think part
of that was just another attack on Indigenous people. I
think also it was another way to distract away from
the f Steam files. So I think it played a
two part role in that, But a good majority of
Indigenous people do not like you know, the term redskin.
(17:28):
We're not a monolith. So they're gonna be people who
don't care. And then there's going to be those that have,
you know, the the random Cherokee great grandma that everybody
seems to have who will speak for quote unquote Indigenous
people and say, yeah, we're good with it because I'm
Native too, when they've never even participated in any parts
(17:49):
of Native culture in any way. So you'll get that
happening a lot. So I think it, Like I said,
I think it was just part of it was distraction
and the other part was just an additional tackle on
indigeniness people like they do.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
All right, Well, that is a perfect segue for us
to share Today's Way Black History Fact. We're bringing it
back because there's something I really wanted to share. This
Today's Way Black History Fact. We're going to talk about
five dollar Indians. Yeah, there's a whole history here of
(18:23):
another way that Indigenous populations were taken advantage of. So
I'll share this comes from ict news dot org. It
may be fashionable to play Indian now, but it was
also trendy one hundred and twenty five years ago when
people paid five dollars apiece for falsified documents declaring them
native on the dolls rolls. This is the people with
(18:43):
the great grandmother, so they say. These so called five
dollars Indians paid government agents under the table in order
to reap the benefits that came with having Indian blood,
mainly white men with an appetite for land. Five dollars
Indians paid to register on the dolls rolls, earning fraudulent
enrollment in tribes along with benefits inherited by generations to come. Quote.
(19:05):
These were opportunistic white men who wanted to access to
wanted access to land or food rations unquote, said Gregory Smithers,
Associate professor of history at Virginia Commonwealth University. It goes
on to say these were people who were more than
happy to exploit the Dawes Commission, and government agents for
five dollars were willing to turn a blind eye to
the graft and corruption. The DAWs Commission, established in eighteen
(19:29):
ninety three to enforce the General Allotment Act of eighteen
eighty seven or the DAWs Act, was charged with convincing
tribes sorry to seede their land to the United States
and divide remaining land into individual allotments. The Commission also
required Indians to claim membership in only one tribe and
register on the Dows rolls, what the government meant to
(19:49):
be a definitive record of individuals with Indian blood. The
Curtis Act, and passed in nineteen sorry eighteen ninety eight,
targeted the five civilized tribes, which were Cherokee, chucatau ch, Iuka,
saw Creek, and Seminole, forcing them to accept allotments and
register on the Dolls roles. The two acts, which came
during a period of murky social context after the Civil
War when white and black men were intermarrying with Native
(20:12):
American women, aimed to help the government keep track of
real Indians while accelerating efforts to assimilate Indian people into
white culture. Smithers said. The Dolls Commission set up tents
in Indian territory, said Bill Welch, director emeritus of the
Oklahoma Historical Society's Office of American Indian Culture and Preservation.
(20:33):
Their field clerks scoured written records, took oral testimony, and
generated enrollment cards for individuals determined to have Indian blood.
That included authentic Indians, Welch said, but it also included
lots of people with questionable heritage.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Quote.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Commissioners took advantage of their positions and enrolled people who
had very minimal or questionable connections to the tribes, he said,
goes on to say they were not adverse to taking
money under the table. The implications of such shady practices
are enormous now, Smithers said, five dollars Indians passed their
unearned benefits to heirs who still lay claim to tribal
citizenship and associated privileges. That means quote, that means we
(21:11):
have white people who have the ability to vote at large.
It means political rights. It means the potential to influence
tribal policy on a whole range of issues. It means
people have access to healthcare, education, and employment. The implications
are quite profound for people who got away with fraud
on the flip side, while non natives paid to play Indian,
many authentic Indians who didn't trust the government chose not
(21:31):
to register with the DAWs Act at all, said Jane Norris,
a genealogist at the Cherokee National Historical Society, that means
people with legitimate claims to tribal enrollment and the benefits
are now excluded. So again, you know, for those of
us who understand the role that our Native brothers and
(21:53):
sisters play in this society and should be playing in
this society, these are things that we need to know about.
And for those that want to know more. At Brown
Girl U, what is it at Brown Girl Pride? I
don't have it in front of me anymore. Where is it?
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Uh? Yep?
Speaker 1 (22:09):
At Brown Girl Pride, I got it? Okay, yep, there
we go.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
So at Brown Girl Pride, uh, you know, be sure
to follow Melinda on all platforms uh and and really
dive into the long form content because some of it
it'll take you down a rabbit hole you didn't even
know existed. So once again, thank you so much for
your time. Hopefully we can have you back on soon.
Uh if you'll you know, set aside the time for
us and educate it some more. So Yeah, thanks again.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
I would love I would definitely love to and thank
you for inviting me. I appreciate it absolutely.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
And that's going to do it for us here on
Civic Cipher. Be sure to check me out on all
social media. You can find me at Rams's Job, follow
the page at Civic Cipher, and q word can be
found at I am q Ward on all platforms as
well with the website civiccipher dot com. And until next week,
y'all peace,
Keep on riding with us as we continue to broadcast
the balance and defend the discourse from these hip hop
weekly studios. Welcome back to Civic Cipher. I am still
your host, Ramsay's Jah and Q is still traveling these
United States of America hoping to make this land better
for you and for me. But we have a special
guest that is having a fascinating conversation with us this week.
(00:23):
And she goes by the name of Melinda Grisbee. You
can find her online at Brown Girl Pride on all platforms,
and for those that don't know, she's a social media activist,
a former Air Force medic twice deployed to Iraq, and
a public speaker with a focus on history and decolonization.
And again we're right in the middle of a fascinating conversation.
(00:45):
Stick around because I got some really important questions to
ask her, not the least of which is her reaction
to this administration's haphazard approach to this country citizens. I
guess that's about as general as terms as I can
put it in. But before we get back to that conversation,
it is time to Baba become a better ally. Baba
on today's Babba comes from in Sorry ni WRC dot
(01:08):
org that stands for National Indigenous Women's Resource Center. I
want to say this again and I want to say
it right NIWRC dot org, National Indigenous Women's Resource Center.
I'll share from their website. The alarming reports of abduction
and murder of Native women highlight one of the most
devastating issues facing tribal communities. On summer reservations, Native women
(01:31):
face murder rates more than ten times in national average.
These disappearances and murders are often directly linked to domestic violence,
dating violence, sexual assault, stalking, sex trafficking, and long standing
harms impacting Indigenous communities. Understanding these connections is essential to
addressing the crisis of missing and murdered Indigenous women and relatives.
In response to this ongoing crisis, grassroots movements have grown
(01:54):
at the local, regional, national, and international levels to honor
the lives of missing and murdered Indigenous women and relatives
and to work toward lasting safety and support. May fifth
has been recognized as the National Day of Awareness for
Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Relatives, honoring Hannah Harris,
a twenty one year old woman from the Northern Cheyenne
tribe who went missing and was later found murdered in
(02:17):
twenty thirteen. Native families, advocates, and tribal nations have risen
to shine a light on the crisis, strengthen community action,
and uplift the voices of surviving family members. Together, they
continue to call for visibility, support, and positive change to
protect Indigenous women, girls, and relatives. Ini WRC is committed
to supporting families, communities, and advocates in bringing greater awareness
(02:40):
to this national crisis and in honoring the lives of
those taken too soon. For those who want to get involved,
help with policy changes, legislative action, volunteering, and of course donating,
Donating always works. Again the website INIWRC dot org. That's
the National Indigenous Women's Resource Center once again, INIWRC dot org. Okay,
(03:01):
we Linda Grisby, thank you so much again for your time.
It's it's really an honor to have you on the show.
You know, we Q and I we share this a
lot with with guests we have on. You know, we
made this show for people like you. We we're not
the people that you know I shared with you, you know,
(03:24):
before this conversation that we're DJs, you know, by profession,
we like nightclub DJs with the music and scratching and
you know, microphones, gets your hands in the air type
of thing, and of course radio personalities. And we thought
that this place needed to exist for great thinkers and
advocates and people that get beyond the music and appreciate
(03:47):
and love the people beyond hip hop, beyond R and
B that sort of stuff, right, And as we saw,
you know, people showing up for us, we know that
it it's like the Rainbow Coalition, right, we need to
show up for each other, right, because we're stronger together, right.
And I'm a big fan of Fred Hampton, and so
Rainbow Coalition ideology works really well around here. So we
(04:09):
have a symbolic roundtable in the studio and we share
this platform and we've been able to be informed and
educated by some of the greatest minds in this country.
And it is again it's an honor to add you
to that list of folks that have been able to contribute.
And we hope that this will be the beginning of
a long standing relationship. But I wanted to make sure
(04:33):
I got that out of the way and give you
some Flowers. Let's get back to the conversation. Yeah, of course.
So another video that I saw on your page was
you talking about the twenty ten Supreme Court case of
Citizens United versus the Federal Election Commission. Okay, Now, to
people that aren't really in the weeds of all this
(04:55):
sort of stuff that sounds like boring court cases, who cares.
But there's some serious implications here. So again the twenty
ten Supreme Court case Citizens United versus the Federal Election Commission.
What were the implications of this decision and share with
us how it affects today's political landscape.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Sure, that case basically ruled that corporations were now considered people.
So prior to that, individual people you and I or
rich people could donate as much money as they wanted
to a campaign, but they could never donate on behalf
of their corporations. Corporations could donate to campaigns, but it
was limited at a certain amount of money, so they couldn't
(05:38):
throw you a billion dollar corporation but behind candidate. Well,
the ruling of this when it made corporations people, that
basically allowed corporations to throw as much money as they
wanted into campaigns, into their candidates and things like that
which had detrimental effects on our politicians and how they vote.
(06:00):
Their votes are swayed. This also allows for them, the
government to get away with violating your First Amendment, your
free speech. So the First Amendment is doesn't allow the
government to quiet your speech, doesn't allow them to punish
you if you talk ill about the government or talk
(06:22):
about them in any kind of way that's bad. That's
what the First Amendment is for. It's not for private entities.
Private entities can set their own rules for what they
want in their establishments, but making corporations people allowed for
basically corporations to pay politicians what they want to get
(06:42):
what the legislation they want push and allows for politicians
to get their favor in return by having our speech
limited on social media where you often see people using
censoring themselves on social media so they don't get shadow
bend or so their videos get pushed out there. So
this is kind of their covert to censor our voices
(07:04):
and censor what we see and how they control our
algorithms by you know, doing favors for the corporations. The
corporations will do favors for them. Therefore, they're not technically,
you know, taking away our free speech and not squashing
our free speech, but they are doing it in the
back doors way. So that's a big reason why it's
(07:26):
problematic amongst the other you know, the influence on that.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Yeah, you know, and coming from somebody who's I know,
we're a shadow band on Instagram, you know. I think
we peek through on TikTok and all the rest of
the platforms from time to time, but Instagram, man as,
it feels so disheartening. It's like, well, why don't we
just delete this page? You know, But then there are
some people that seek the content out and they'll go
(07:51):
to the page. We're like, hey, look if those are
the people, you know, Tupac said he might he would
spark the mind of the next great revolutionary, and so
we kind of have that approach. It's not really numbers. Plus,
we don't play Instagram. Were radio folks, and this is
what we do. But I appreciate you sharing that with us,
because then for folks that do listen every week that
(08:12):
are like activist types and they are kind of doing
research and deep dives and sharing content with people, it
kind of helps them to know kind of what they're
up against so that they can pivot or persevere or
whatever the case is. So I appreciate you sharing that.
Another thing I want to get to one of your posts.
You have a quote says and this is like the
Democrats versus the Republicans, and this is a hot take.
(08:35):
So I wanted you to elaborate and share again for
our listeners. You say, if you're fighting for one side
or the other, meaning Democrats or Republicans, you're fighting for
one side or the other. You're fighting for colonialism and
you're anti indigenous, and that is a potent statement. So
my question is, and I don't disagree. I don't disagree.
(08:58):
I cannot disagree. You know more than I do. But
I want to ask you, what should people do. People
who've listened to our conversation so far, they'd say, hey,
this is wrong. I don't like the direction this country
is going in. We're losing freedoms, we're losing rights, we're
being very unkind to each other. This is not the
optimal future that we can create in a country as
magnificent potentially as this one can be. But given the
(09:23):
framework of this democracy, what can people do that have
hurt our conversation, want to make things better? What can
they do within the framework of this democracy while still
being mindful of our relationship with our indigenous brothers and sisters,
Because I don't think anybody that listens to the show
with any consistency wants to be anti indigenous. So talk
(09:45):
to us what should what is an ideal approach?
Speaker 2 (09:53):
I think, especially when we're talking to leftists, progressives, liberals,
I like to start. I challenge those thinkers the right,
not so much obviously, because we know what they think,
but I challenge those on the left to really ask
themselves how many times have they included Indigenous people in
(10:14):
the conversations of how this country should go? Right? I
think that's the biggest thing is that people aren't talking
to Native people, whether it's Native leaders, native activists, our
voices are very much silenced. And even with the tribal communities,
like nobody's going to them and saying, hey, you know,
(10:35):
these are your lands, what do you want us to
do with them? How do you want us to help
you guys take back your lands. We have the land
Back movement, but a lot of people say they support it.
But when you're supporting a colonial government, that is actively
still colonizing indigenous lands and people, then you are supporting colonialism.
(10:58):
So I think the biggest thing that I would challenge
people on the left to do is ask yourselves how
many Indigenous people leaders, not just random people on the internet,
but like leaders in the communities are you talking to
are you having these conversations with when it comes to,
you know, fighting and having a revolution. I think if
(11:20):
you're not including indigenous people in those conversations, you're walking
down the wrong path and at least to dangerous waters
on keeping a colonial government in our lands. And that's
not what we want as a whole, you know. Granted,
a lot of us still got to deconstruct and decolonize,
as everybody does. But I think at the end of
the day, all of our goals is to have our
(11:42):
lands back and be the stewards of our lands once again.
And I think that's the goal for indigenous people globally.
So it's not even just anti indigenous here, it's anti
indigenous globally because colonialism has affected the indigenous communities of Africa, Australia,
New Zealand, Asia and here, and even our own indigenous
communities in Europe. So being anti it's a it's a
(12:05):
global thing. It's not just here in the United States
or in the Americas. It's a to be really fully
in with what we want to do or what everybody
wants us talking about. With Palestine, Congo, all of these
things we have to deconstruct from the current government system
that is right all of it and causing all this
(12:26):
havoc in genocide.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Well, thank you for that. That reminds me that I
should once again remind our listeners, because I haven't done
it in some time, that we indeed broadcast from unseated
ancestral lens of the Akima Odam people's uh and we
(12:50):
try our best to keep that central to the narratives
that we have here. But of course we always could
do better. And one of the things that I do
pride myself on, you know, for folks that are able
to listen to the long form show around the country,
is that we do play a lot of music from
(13:10):
indigenous revolutionaries. They make some of the best music, and
so we're very familiar with the land back movement because
we find that it often makes its way into the
music for those that you know, create hip hop from
the reservation and yeah, I don't think that's too tall
in order. I think you're absolutely right, and you can
(13:32):
correct me if I'm wrong. But I feel like you've
made a point that there is no freedom, there is
no revolution, there is no next level until we've fully
paid attention to the goings on with respect to native
populations in this country. And the way you framed that,
(13:53):
I couldn't tell you which video it was because it
was such a deep dive I did, but the way
you framed it it was masterful. I was like, yeah,
that makes sense around here. Of course, we pay attention
to black women. There's a lot of data on black women.
There's you know, and and black women can serve as
as a fantastic barometer for the health of a society, right,
(14:13):
how well black women are doing how that will show
you how well the society is doing. Right. But I
think that there's a separate barometer that has even deeper
roots in this country, and note has even deeper roots
in this country. And maybe there's less data, but we
have to be the change that we want to see,
so we have to start paying attention, so there ends
(14:34):
up being more data. And so this is why conversations
like this are so important. This is a conversation that's
been a long time time. I promise we've really wanted
someone of your caliber and your intellectual capacity to come
up and share this with us. So again, I thank
you for that. Now, because we're here, there are people
(14:54):
that are that listen to this show that are probably
listening for the first time. There are people who listen
past massively because they're driving from work, or driving to work,
or you know, it's the weekend, whatever whatever their story is.
And then of course we have the people that listen
every week religiously because they're trying to get some additional
framing of their reality and ways to push back against
what they feel is a great injustice. But for the
(15:16):
folks that are just coming to the conversation that might
not know all of the history, I want you to
talk about this move by Donald Trump to rename the
Washington Commander's football team and to have them change that
(15:39):
name back to the Washington Redskins. Now, my understanding is
Redskins is an offensive term, and so I mean no offense.
But that was the name of the team for a
very long time. They finally turned over a new leaf,
had this new name, and people may not have known
the why behind that name change, and people may not
(16:00):
even know about this story Donald Trump's push to have
them change it back, which feels exceptionally regressive and it'll
be wildly expensive and offensive to a huge amount of people.
But I would imagine that your thoughts could give more
context to our listeners. Again, just coming to this conversation,
So what is your take on this.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
I think it's just another way to attack Indigenous people,
as they've done for the last five hundred years. Red
skin is a highly offensive term, and that was used
to similar in a way to kind of similar to
the word w et back right or the N word.
(16:43):
Very highly offensive and it was used very derogatorily to
Native Americans. So it also kind of continues to perpetuate
this idea that we're a mascot, you know, the indigenous
people of the lens are mascots, and still kind of
reduces down to less than human and characters versus, you know,
(17:06):
the rightful stewards of the land. So I think part
of that was just another attack on Indigenous people. I
think also it was another way to distract away from
the f Steam files. So I think it played a
two part role in that, But a good majority of
Indigenous people do not like you know, the term redskin.
(17:28):
We're not a monolith. So they're gonna be people who
don't care. And then there's going to be those that have,
you know, the the random Cherokee great grandma that everybody
seems to have who will speak for quote unquote Indigenous
people and say, yeah, we're good with it because I'm
Native too, when they've never even participated in any parts
(17:49):
of Native culture in any way. So you'll get that
happening a lot. So I think it, Like I said,
I think it was just part of it was distraction
and the other part was just an additional tackle on
indigeniness people like they do.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
All right, Well, that is a perfect segue for us
to share Today's Way Black History Fact. We're bringing it
back because there's something I really wanted to share. This
Today's Way Black History Fact. We're going to talk about
five dollar Indians. Yeah, there's a whole history here of
(18:23):
another way that Indigenous populations were taken advantage of. So
I'll share this comes from ict news dot org. It
may be fashionable to play Indian now, but it was
also trendy one hundred and twenty five years ago when
people paid five dollars apiece for falsified documents declaring them
native on the dolls rolls. This is the people with
(18:43):
the great grandmother, so they say. These so called five
dollars Indians paid government agents under the table in order
to reap the benefits that came with having Indian blood,
mainly white men with an appetite for land. Five dollars
Indians paid to register on the dolls rolls, earning fraudulent
enrollment in tribes along with benefits inherited by generations to come. Quote.
(19:05):
These were opportunistic white men who wanted to access to
wanted access to land or food rations unquote, said Gregory Smithers,
Associate professor of history at Virginia Commonwealth University. It goes
on to say these were people who were more than
happy to exploit the Dawes Commission, and government agents for
five dollars were willing to turn a blind eye to
the graft and corruption. The DAWs Commission, established in eighteen
(19:29):
ninety three to enforce the General Allotment Act of eighteen
eighty seven or the DAWs Act, was charged with convincing
tribes sorry to seede their land to the United States
and divide remaining land into individual allotments. The Commission also
required Indians to claim membership in only one tribe and
register on the Dows rolls, what the government meant to
(19:49):
be a definitive record of individuals with Indian blood. The
Curtis Act, and passed in nineteen sorry eighteen ninety eight,
targeted the five civilized tribes, which were Cherokee, chucatau ch, Iuka,
saw Creek, and Seminole, forcing them to accept allotments and
register on the Dolls roles. The two acts, which came
during a period of murky social context after the Civil
War when white and black men were intermarrying with Native
(20:12):
American women, aimed to help the government keep track of
real Indians while accelerating efforts to assimilate Indian people into
white culture. Smithers said. The Dolls Commission set up tents
in Indian territory, said Bill Welch, director emeritus of the
Oklahoma Historical Society's Office of American Indian Culture and Preservation.
(20:33):
Their field clerks scoured written records, took oral testimony, and
generated enrollment cards for individuals determined to have Indian blood.
That included authentic Indians, Welch said, but it also included
lots of people with questionable heritage.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Quote.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Commissioners took advantage of their positions and enrolled people who
had very minimal or questionable connections to the tribes, he said,
goes on to say they were not adverse to taking
money under the table. The implications of such shady practices
are enormous now, Smithers said, five dollars Indians passed their
unearned benefits to heirs who still lay claim to tribal
citizenship and associated privileges. That means quote, that means we
(21:11):
have white people who have the ability to vote at large.
It means political rights. It means the potential to influence
tribal policy on a whole range of issues. It means
people have access to healthcare, education, and employment. The implications
are quite profound for people who got away with fraud
on the flip side, while non natives paid to play Indian,
many authentic Indians who didn't trust the government chose not
(21:31):
to register with the DAWs Act at all, said Jane Norris,
a genealogist at the Cherokee National Historical Society, that means
people with legitimate claims to tribal enrollment and the benefits
are now excluded. So again, you know, for those of
us who understand the role that our Native brothers and
(21:53):
sisters play in this society and should be playing in
this society, these are things that we need to know about.
And for those that want to know more. At Brown
Girl U, what is it at Brown Girl Pride? I
don't have it in front of me anymore. Where is it?
Speaker 2 (22:08):
Uh? Yep?
Speaker 1 (22:09):
At Brown Girl Pride, I got it? Okay, yep, there
we go.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
So at Brown Girl Pride, uh, you know, be sure
to follow Melinda on all platforms uh and and really
dive into the long form content because some of it
it'll take you down a rabbit hole you didn't even
know existed. So once again, thank you so much for
your time. Hopefully we can have you back on soon.
Uh if you'll you know, set aside the time for
us and educate it some more. So Yeah, thanks again.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
I would love I would definitely love to and thank
you for inviting me. I appreciate it absolutely.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
And that's going to do it for us here on
Civic Cipher. Be sure to check me out on all
social media. You can find me at Rams's Job, follow
the page at Civic Cipher, and q word can be
found at I am q Ward on all platforms as
well with the website civiccipher dot com. And until next week,
y'all peace,
Popular Podcasts
New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce
Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!