In the second half of the program, we discuss how Phoenix adopted an idea from the Defund the Police movement and how when Trump weighs in on national tragedies, he often ends up making things worse.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Still broadcasting from the Hip Hop Weekly Studios. Welcome back
to Civic Cipher. I am your host, Ramsy's Jack Ward
in the building, and we need to stick around a little.
Later on the show, we're going to finally be talking
about how Phoenix has adopted at least one idea from
the defund the police movement, and if you know, like
we know, you know, that is definitely something you want
(00:21):
to stick around for because we have historically discussed the
merits some of the merits of that way of thinking,
and to see a place like Phoenix adopt at least
some of that shows maybe a little bit of promise
and maybe there's everyone has to start somewhere, so that's
(00:41):
where Phoenix is starting. We're also going to talk about
the president weighing in on national tragedies and often making
them worse, just creating more division, and so we're going
to talk about what should be normal. And now today's
BABA comes from the b I N. A statue of
civil rights trailblazer Barbara Rose Johns is replacing one of
(01:03):
Confederate General Robert Lee in the US Capitol on Tuesday,
December sixteenth, and eleven foot bronze statue of John's, who
led a landmark student walk out against segregation in schools
as a teenager, was unveiled in an emancipating hall in.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
The Capital Visitor Center.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Per NPR, Johns was just sixteen when she organized a
strike in nineteen fifty one at Virginia segregated Robert Rusholm
Morton High School, protesting overcrowded classrooms and inferior facilities for
black students. The walkout helped spark a legal challenge that
became part of Brown v. Board of Education, the nineteen
fifty four Supreme Court decision that declared school segregation unconstitutional.
(01:38):
The Capital Visitor Center allows each state to honor two
historical figures. For more than a century, Virginia was represented
by George Washington and Lee, whose statue was removed in
twenty twenty amid a national reckoning over Confederate symbols. John's statue,
which is replacing that of Lee's, was created by Maryland
artist Stephen Whitzman and depicts the trailblazing teenager standing at
(01:59):
a podium a spars her rallying words quote, are we
going to just accept these conditions?
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Or are we going to do something about it.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
So this is a feature for obvious reasons, but I
think that it's especially meaningful given this administration's you know,
basically taking a chainsaw to American history, particularly when it
involves black and brown Americans.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
We have sort of felt.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
That our history was not as important, even though we
had a different set of challenges than America would have
you believe at present. And so I guess, you know,
shout out to Virginia for making room for this.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Statue of Barbara Rose Jones. I think that's special.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
That's kind of going around the Trump administration, but you know,
she's there and we love it. Okay, So this story
comes out of Phoenix, which is a place that Q
and I have ties to, really strong ties to, And
I'll share this from KTI dot com. People who call
(03:05):
nine to one one in Phoenix will now have an
additional choice when asked who they need help from. That's
because dispatchers are now required to ask if callers require
help from behavioral health services in addition to the police
department or fire department.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
According to the City of Phoenix, the.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Change was made over a year after the Phoenix City
Council approved measures that aim to modernize public safety services
and expand community focused support.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Quote.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
This new option to request behavioral health help during a
moment of crisis will help make Phoenix a safer community unquote,
Phoenix Mayor Kate Diego said in a press release. She
goes on to say this will help nine one one
dispatchers send the right people with the right training when
it matters most. When a request for behavioral health services
is made during a nine to one one call, a
(03:52):
dispatcher will ask additional questions to determine whether help from
police officers or firefighters is also needed. If it is
determined that the call can be handled solely by behavioral
health professionals, it will be transferred to a behavioral health
dispatcher from the Phoenix Fire Department. A team from the
Community Assistance Program will then be dispatched. And the reason
(04:16):
why this feels good to me at least, and of
course we're going to spend some time talking about this,
so have no fear Q is going to weigh in,
because Q is the reason that many people know us
for covering this topic, because Q has a number of
videos that go viral on our social media accounts, but
this is probably one of his most viral videos suggesting
(04:38):
that there should be a different number that people should
call in the event that there's a mental health crisis.
It's not a criminal call, and it is not a
building on fire, structure fire or anything like that. There's
certain instances when you just need some help with a
person who is not going to harm anyone.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
And Q made the point quite well.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
It went viral, of course, So but I want to
say this before you go qu that this was a
concept that was championed by the defund the Police movement,
and in my imagination, Phoenix is not the place where
(05:19):
defunding the police would ever have it's day in the sun, right,
But for Phoenix to adopt at least this facet of
that movement, it was a multifaceted movement. That's not nothing.
That's why this kind of feels good, because again, not
(05:40):
every city. And I want you to kind of tell
it to our listeners because you could do it better
than I could. But the point that you made, at
least in the viral clip and on that show that
we recorded, you said something to the effect of like
a person showing up with a gun to a situation
(06:01):
where a mother's trying to get a son back into
the house or something like that. You know, a person
who has like a psychological condition, or maybe they haven't
had access to medicine or they can't afford it, whatever
the case is, a person with a gun doesn't need
to show up to that situation because that person, especially
(06:25):
if that person is not trained to handle an individual
like that, and a gun being introduced in the equation,
a gun can't help a person who is dealing with
in their minds, they're dealing with a detached, separate reality.
So guns don't mean the same to that person, but
(06:46):
they do mean the same to the officer. Right, So
if the officer feels a threat or feels like there's
a credible threat, and again they're not a professional, so
they can't diagnose that with any real credibility, but they
do and they have qualified immunity, so they can pull
out their gun in the life of somebody who's just
having a bad moment. They lived twenty thirty years, they
(07:06):
were okay, they were going to live another twenty thirty years,
maybe fifty years, who knows. But because an officer showed
up with a gun in that moment, you know, the
consequences are dire. So I know we have a lot
that we could say here, but I want to make
sure you have plenty of time to weigh in here,
so your thoughts.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
So there's times where you assert that I have so
much more to offer things than you.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
He's really profound. I don't think that's true.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Because you've said what I said like you, I don't
have anything different to say than what you said and
what we both said before.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Imagine or something that's that's less fatal.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
If the fire department came for everything, plugged up the
host to a hydrant and unloaded on whatever the thing was. Hey,
I'm locked out of my house and a fire truck
pulled up and plugged the holes into the hydrant and
treated your house like it was on fire. People would
think that that was ridiculous. Hey, I'm stranded on the.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Side of the road.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
The fire department pulled up next to your car, plugged
their fire holes into a water hydrant, and treated your
car like it was on fire.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Everyone would think that that's ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
And I can go on with examples forever, and I
just get more and more ridiculous with the examples, and
the listeners would be like Okay, we get it, except
with the police, you don't get it. We send the
police to like everything that's not a fire, and to
every one of those things, they show up with something
that could end people's lives. And on this show, my
(08:50):
brother has given them the bail of fear. And now
imagine showing up where someone might fully scare you, Right
like if I got to some place called to help
someone write a domestic situation. A husband and a wife,
two brothers, a mother and her son, and the son
(09:11):
is six' four two hundred and ninety, pounds three percent
body fat but mentally. Unstable that could truly be. Scary
AND i have no training in that. Space SO i
have my gun and my. Fear it just got very
very dangerous for that young. Man and that's the case
(09:33):
every time you call the people with the guns to
show up where people aren't in their right, minds where
people are already, afraid where the setting is already. Charged
and we know that police in this country think BECAUSE
i have a, gun at some POINT i should probably use.
It i've been in, Range i've had it on my
(09:56):
hip all these, times and, oh here's a chance for
me to fire this. Gun i've been wanting to fire
SINCE i got this, job on a darker, side a
more cynical, side Because i'm kind of trapped there right.
Now if this person is black or, BROWN i could
probably use this gun today and be.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Tomorrow Maybe i'll get, suspended Maybe i'll even get. Fired
i'll get hired again with the right civil servant protecting.
Me an attorney general can just decide nothing to investigate.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Here we're not even going to press.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
CHARGES a strong police union could have me not serving
in jail time at. All applied to a different, agency
a different, county different, city got my.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Job my life's.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
Okay that mother who was afraid for her, child that
child who was afraid, period that human being that needed
some professional help was, met was met by someone who
could justifiably actually be afraid in this, case but more,
importantly has no, training does not have the proper, mindset
(11:08):
does not have the proper, temperament does not have the
proper tools to handle this. Situation they do have their,
gun though they've been trained how to use. That so
they show up and they do what they're trained to,
do and in far too many cases it's the absolute wrong.
Thing So my simple solution, Was, hey how about when
(11:30):
it's not, dangerous when somebody's just scared and in the
wrong space, Mentally because we pretend that we believe that
mental health is an actual issue in this, country except
we do nothing to serve, it nothing to fix, it
nothing to remedy. It so how about we don't send
people that are trained to kill? PEOPLE i like that
when there's a mental health. Break how about? That, YEAH
(11:51):
i like.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
That and ladies and, gentlemen you see exactly WHY q
always goes. Viral i'm going to chop that up and
put it on the. Internet, everyone's, oh, yeah this guy's.
Made wait till we finish the, show we'll, Talk.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
But check this.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
OUT i actually know some people friends of the, show
AND i was campaigning this with them because you, know
they work kind of in this space more or less public,
policy et, cetera and wanted to get their thoughts on
what was going on In phoenix and these people who
live In phoenix and work out there and so. Forth
and so a friend of, mine her name Is Michelle, blau.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Has been in the field for twenty two. Years she
has a master's in.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Psychology she's worked in the mental Health field currently is
in Homeless Field, services, sorry homeless Services, field AND i
reached out to her and another friend of the, show
Doctor Carrie, sampson And michelle, Says, OH i have so many,
opinions namely that there needs to be a significant amount
(12:52):
of money put into place for training all, officers increasing
the number OF cit, officers more social workers to ride,
along more mental health services for the. POLICE i actually
have a proposal That i've been trying to get past
with The city Of mesa regarding a similar concept SOMETHING
i worked on In, Portland, oregon and would love to
see In. Phoenix and So mesa is basically in the
(13:15):
larger metropolitan, area it's basically a suburb Of. Phoenix Doctor
Carrie sampson ways in. Again she's an associate professor At Arizona.
State her research focuses ON k through, twelve educational, leadership,
policymaking and, equity with a particular emphasis on school, boards,
districts and community. Advocacy she, says from my vantage, point
it seems like a great move, forward But i'm not
(13:37):
in the thick of providing social. Services shell makes some
points that suggest these services are serely severely, underfunded and.
Undersupported if that's the, case it seems like a performative
move and unfunded. Mandate michelle then responds, saying, exactly we
can have great ideas all day, long but if we
don't fund, them we. Fail portland defunded the police and decriminalized,
(13:59):
substances but nothing to support harm reduction and the mental health.
Services so naturally it failed, miserably and then all The
republicans were, like, see it.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Was maddening to.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Watch she, Says i've been in the field twenty two,
years and if someone would just put me in, CHARGE
i could make stuff. Happen so, Again i'm excited that
this is something that at least as they're experimenting with In.
Phoenix i'd love for it to again have its day
(14:28):
in the sun so we can see the benefits of.
It and this obviously being something that you AND i
have pushed for for some, time it feels good to know,
that you, know at least we have something happening in
a big enough city to maybe make some inroads. There
so moving, on let's talk about the president. Again so,
(14:55):
yeah WHAT i was saying is THAT i don't know
if you're like, me and you grew up in a
country where in moments where there was a national or global,
tragedy the president would.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Speak and it would offer.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Comfort this was true kind of crossed the board in
my estimation BECAUSE i do Remember George Bush, junior and
during nine to ELEVEN i was in, College GEORGE. W
(15:37):
bush and, Me GEORGE. W. Bush, yeah DID i get it?
Wrong you Said George Bush. Junior his Father's GEORGE. H. W.
Bush He's GEORGE. W, bush Not George, okay that's the
GUY i was thinking. Of but, YEAH i remember during
nine to eleven he came out and he had maybe
(15:59):
they weren't words of, comfort but he HAD i remember
taking comfort in his sober approach to that. Moment could
someone have done a better, job, sure but he was the.
(16:21):
Guy it happened on his, watch and he did something that,
certainly you, know in, hindsight seems more, presidential BUT i
won't take it away from in the moment it seemed.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Presidential he did what a president would. Do he got out.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
There you, KNOW q AND i have a, joke an inside,
joke but you, know you got to Have George bush
when he started talking about, war you, know and that's
HOW i remember presidents responding to national. Tragedies AND i
picked On GEORGE. W bush because he's A republican AND
i did not vote for, him, Right so it's not
(16:59):
Like i'm Picking, democratic you, know presidents Or republican presidents
to pick. On i'm just know that the office typically
comes with that type of. Responsibility, well in the past
couple of, days we've had a couple of.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Snares makes no.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Difference let's call them national, tragedies And Donald trump has
managed to make them. Worse according to a lot of.
People this isn't just ramses And q's. Thoughts a lot
of people and this is Why i'm able to share
these notes with. You so this first one comes From
The New York. Times President trump seized on the stabbing
death Of Rob reiner and his wife to make a
baseless attack on The hollywood director less than a day
(17:39):
after reporting of his, killing suggesting that Mister hiner's criticism
of Mister trump may have led to his. Murder the
attack on Mister reiner so soon after his death prompted
a rare backlash against The president from SOME maga Aligned,
republicans some of whom urged The president to retract his.
Comments Mister trump wrote on to True social On monday
that Mister ryan death was quote reportedly due to the
(18:01):
anger he caused in others through his, massive unyielding and
incurable affliction with a mind crippling disease known As trump derangement.
Syndrome asked by reporters later in the day whether he
stood by those, comments Mister trump was. Unapologetic. Quote WHILE
i wasn't a fan of his at, all he was
a deranged. PERSON i thought he was very bad for our.
Country the reiners thirty two year old son has been
(18:24):
booked on suspicion of. Murder the police said there was
no indication from the authorities that the couple's political beliefs
had anything to do with their. Deaths Mister hiner was
found dead On, sunday long side his, Wife michelle's Singer,
reiner at their home In Los. Angeles Mister trump's attack
brought immediate, outrage including from close allies who said the
attack Undercut republicans call for Civility after the assassination Of
(18:46):
charlie Kirk, Hmmm prominent conservatives called for public, shaming, firings
and the threat of prosecution for those who spoke ill
of Mister. Kirk all, Right, now if that wasn't, enough
let me sure another one just from the bi. In
President donald Try trump is facing criticism after his response
to a deadly mass shooting At Brown, university where two
people were killed and nine others injured during finals. Week
(19:08):
speaking at A White House christmas reception On, Sunday december,
Fourteenth trump addressed the, attack which occurred the day, prior
which Was december, thirteenth inside an engineering building on The
Ivy league campus In Rhode. Island Quote Brown university great,
school really one of the greatest schools anywhere in the,
World trump, said before adding quote things can. Happen so
(19:30):
to the nine, injured get well, fast and to the
families of those two that are no longer with, US
i pay my deepest regards and respects from The United
states Of. America While trump offered, condolences the phrase things
can happen quickly drew backlash, online with critics accusing the
president of minimizing the severity of the violence and showing
(19:51):
a lack of empathy for the victims and their. Families
so this things can, happen thing that to me sounds
very similar to other things That i've, heard basically excusing
gun violence because there's no way to fix that, problem
(20:18):
or will we need to accept that problem in order
to continue to enjoy.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Our Second. Amendment, Right.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
So it sounds dismissive Because Donald, trump if he's shown,
anything he's shown that he's effective at getting stuff.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Done that he wants.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Done and IF i would imagine if he wanted there
to be some gun reform or some legislator, something some
approach to, this which again the majority of the country
wants some form of gun, control the government to step
in and.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Make this.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Better when When trump says things can have and it
comes across as dismissive and just like kind of, like, oh,
well you, know this is what are you going to? Do?
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Anyway rest in, peace, everybody you. Know and so.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Again we have a, president rather than being solution, oriented providing,
comfort what have, you we have a president that almost
does the opposite. Consistently and sometimes he might appeal to
a fraction of his own, base like the most EXTREME maga.
(21:32):
Folks sometimes it's in the middle of his. Base sometimes
it's at the more let's call it progressive side of his,
base and he alienates his hard maga you know, base
but rarely does he provide comfort for the majority Of.
Americans it's typically just a slice of the population and
everyone else is just, like this is what we have
(21:52):
to deal, with and it's heartbreaking to know that our
friends and neighbors and country folks have voted for.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
This some people voted three.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
TIMES. Q i want to make sure that you got
the rest of the time here if you want to
talk about this. Too you, know it's an interesting.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
Thing even when things like this happen And republicans and you,
know Maga republicans who have been lockstep with him on
everything else disagree with, him he still dismisses.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
It so there's no reigning him.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
In it's him above, Everything him above everything slipped, out
and his response to the criticism of, this he doubled
down on it when speaking to reporters at The White.
House and he'll find a way to center himself even
in your. Death great for a leader of the free,
world don't you. Think, Nope, Nope that's WHY i started saying.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
That started by saying, that you, Know i'm. ACCUSTOMED i
lived most of my life under you, know the idea
that the president was the president of all of the,
people even if you voted for him or not so,
well that's going to do it for us here On Civic.
CIPHER i have been your host ramses Ja.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
I am qward and be.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Sure to follow us on all social media. Platforms you
can find us At Civic cipher that is C i
B I c C i p h E. R also
hit the website civiccipher dot. Com you can download this
in any previous. Episode, also you can send a, Donation
you can suggest any topics you want us to, cover
or just generally interact with. Us so you can find
me on all platforms at ramses ja q is on
all platforms at im qward and until next, time y'all,
(23:29):
peace
Still broadcasting from the Hip Hop Weekly Studios. Welcome back
to Civic Cipher. I am your host, Ramsy's Jack Ward
in the building, and we need to stick around a little.
Later on the show, we're going to finally be talking
about how Phoenix has adopted at least one idea from
the defund the police movement, and if you know, like
we know, you know, that is definitely something you want
(00:21):
to stick around for because we have historically discussed the
merits some of the merits of that way of thinking,
and to see a place like Phoenix adopt at least
some of that shows maybe a little bit of promise
and maybe there's everyone has to start somewhere, so that's
(00:41):
where Phoenix is starting. We're also going to talk about
the president weighing in on national tragedies and often making
them worse, just creating more division, and so we're going
to talk about what should be normal. And now today's
BABA comes from the b I N. A statue of
civil rights trailblazer Barbara Rose Johns is replacing one of
(01:03):
Confederate General Robert Lee in the US Capitol on Tuesday,
December sixteenth, and eleven foot bronze statue of John's, who
led a landmark student walk out against segregation in schools
as a teenager, was unveiled in an emancipating hall in.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
The Capital Visitor Center.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Per NPR, Johns was just sixteen when she organized a
strike in nineteen fifty one at Virginia segregated Robert Rusholm
Morton High School, protesting overcrowded classrooms and inferior facilities for
black students. The walkout helped spark a legal challenge that
became part of Brown v. Board of Education, the nineteen
fifty four Supreme Court decision that declared school segregation unconstitutional.
(01:38):
The Capital Visitor Center allows each state to honor two
historical figures. For more than a century, Virginia was represented
by George Washington and Lee, whose statue was removed in
twenty twenty amid a national reckoning over Confederate symbols. John's statue,
which is replacing that of Lee's, was created by Maryland
artist Stephen Whitzman and depicts the trailblazing teenager standing at
(01:59):
a podium a spars her rallying words quote, are we
going to just accept these conditions?
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Or are we going to do something about it.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
So this is a feature for obvious reasons, but I
think that it's especially meaningful given this administration's you know,
basically taking a chainsaw to American history, particularly when it
involves black and brown Americans.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
We have sort of felt.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
That our history was not as important, even though we
had a different set of challenges than America would have
you believe at present. And so I guess, you know,
shout out to Virginia for making room for this.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Statue of Barbara Rose Jones. I think that's special.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
That's kind of going around the Trump administration, but you know,
she's there and we love it. Okay, So this story
comes out of Phoenix, which is a place that Q
and I have ties to, really strong ties to, And
I'll share this from KTI dot com. People who call
(03:05):
nine to one one in Phoenix will now have an
additional choice when asked who they need help from. That's
because dispatchers are now required to ask if callers require
help from behavioral health services in addition to the police
department or fire department.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
According to the City of Phoenix, the.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Change was made over a year after the Phoenix City
Council approved measures that aim to modernize public safety services
and expand community focused support.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Quote.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
This new option to request behavioral health help during a
moment of crisis will help make Phoenix a safer community unquote,
Phoenix Mayor Kate Diego said in a press release. She
goes on to say this will help nine one one
dispatchers send the right people with the right training when
it matters most. When a request for behavioral health services
is made during a nine to one one call, a
(03:52):
dispatcher will ask additional questions to determine whether help from
police officers or firefighters is also needed. If it is
determined that the call can be handled solely by behavioral
health professionals, it will be transferred to a behavioral health
dispatcher from the Phoenix Fire Department. A team from the
Community Assistance Program will then be dispatched. And the reason
(04:16):
why this feels good to me at least, and of
course we're going to spend some time talking about this,
so have no fear Q is going to weigh in,
because Q is the reason that many people know us
for covering this topic, because Q has a number of
videos that go viral on our social media accounts, but
this is probably one of his most viral videos suggesting
(04:38):
that there should be a different number that people should
call in the event that there's a mental health crisis.
It's not a criminal call, and it is not a
building on fire, structure fire or anything like that. There's
certain instances when you just need some help with a
person who is not going to harm anyone.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
And Q made the point quite well.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
It went viral, of course, So but I want to
say this before you go qu that this was a
concept that was championed by the defund the Police movement,
and in my imagination, Phoenix is not the place where
(05:19):
defunding the police would ever have it's day in the sun, right,
But for Phoenix to adopt at least this facet of
that movement, it was a multifaceted movement. That's not nothing.
That's why this kind of feels good, because again, not
(05:40):
every city. And I want you to kind of tell
it to our listeners because you could do it better
than I could. But the point that you made, at
least in the viral clip and on that show that
we recorded, you said something to the effect of like
a person showing up with a gun to a situation
(06:01):
where a mother's trying to get a son back into
the house or something like that. You know, a person
who has like a psychological condition, or maybe they haven't
had access to medicine or they can't afford it, whatever
the case is, a person with a gun doesn't need
to show up to that situation because that person, especially
(06:25):
if that person is not trained to handle an individual
like that, and a gun being introduced in the equation,
a gun can't help a person who is dealing with
in their minds, they're dealing with a detached, separate reality.
So guns don't mean the same to that person, but
(06:46):
they do mean the same to the officer. Right, So
if the officer feels a threat or feels like there's
a credible threat, and again they're not a professional, so
they can't diagnose that with any real credibility, but they
do and they have qualified immunity, so they can pull
out their gun in the life of somebody who's just
having a bad moment. They lived twenty thirty years, they
(07:06):
were okay, they were going to live another twenty thirty years,
maybe fifty years, who knows. But because an officer showed
up with a gun in that moment, you know, the
consequences are dire. So I know we have a lot
that we could say here, but I want to make
sure you have plenty of time to weigh in here,
so your thoughts.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
So there's times where you assert that I have so
much more to offer things than you.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
He's really profound. I don't think that's true.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
Because you've said what I said like you, I don't
have anything different to say than what you said and
what we both said before.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Imagine or something that's that's less fatal.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
If the fire department came for everything, plugged up the
host to a hydrant and unloaded on whatever the thing was. Hey,
I'm locked out of my house and a fire truck
pulled up and plugged the holes into the hydrant and
treated your house like it was on fire. People would
think that that was ridiculous. Hey, I'm stranded on the.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Side of the road.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
The fire department pulled up next to your car, plugged
their fire holes into a water hydrant, and treated your
car like it was on fire.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Everyone would think that that's ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
And I can go on with examples forever, and I
just get more and more ridiculous with the examples, and
the listeners would be like Okay, we get it, except
with the police, you don't get it. We send the
police to like everything that's not a fire, and to
every one of those things, they show up with something
that could end people's lives. And on this show, my
(08:50):
brother has given them the bail of fear. And now
imagine showing up where someone might fully scare you, Right
like if I got to some place called to help
someone write a domestic situation. A husband and a wife,
two brothers, a mother and her son, and the son
(09:11):
is six' four two hundred and ninety, pounds three percent
body fat but mentally. Unstable that could truly be. Scary
AND i have no training in that. Space SO i
have my gun and my. Fear it just got very
very dangerous for that young. Man and that's the case
(09:33):
every time you call the people with the guns to
show up where people aren't in their right, minds where
people are already, afraid where the setting is already. Charged
and we know that police in this country think BECAUSE
i have a, gun at some POINT i should probably use.
It i've been in, Range i've had it on my
(09:56):
hip all these, times and, oh here's a chance for
me to fire this. Gun i've been wanting to fire
SINCE i got this, job on a darker, side a
more cynical, side Because i'm kind of trapped there right.
Now if this person is black or, BROWN i could
probably use this gun today and be.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Tomorrow Maybe i'll get, suspended Maybe i'll even get. Fired
i'll get hired again with the right civil servant protecting.
Me an attorney general can just decide nothing to investigate.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Here we're not even going to press.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
CHARGES a strong police union could have me not serving
in jail time at. All applied to a different, agency
a different, county different, city got my.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
Job my life's.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
Okay that mother who was afraid for her, child that
child who was afraid, period that human being that needed
some professional help was, met was met by someone who
could justifiably actually be afraid in this, case but more,
importantly has no, training does not have the proper, mindset
(11:08):
does not have the proper, temperament does not have the
proper tools to handle this. Situation they do have their,
gun though they've been trained how to use. That so
they show up and they do what they're trained to,
do and in far too many cases it's the absolute wrong.
Thing So my simple solution, Was, hey how about when
(11:30):
it's not, dangerous when somebody's just scared and in the
wrong space, Mentally because we pretend that we believe that
mental health is an actual issue in this, country except
we do nothing to serve, it nothing to fix, it
nothing to remedy. It so how about we don't send
people that are trained to kill? PEOPLE i like that
when there's a mental health. Break how about? That, YEAH
(11:51):
i like.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
That and ladies and, gentlemen you see exactly WHY q
always goes. Viral i'm going to chop that up and
put it on the. Internet, everyone's, oh, yeah this guy's.
Made wait till we finish the, show we'll, Talk.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
But check this.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
OUT i actually know some people friends of the, show
AND i was campaigning this with them because you, know
they work kind of in this space more or less public,
policy et, cetera and wanted to get their thoughts on
what was going on In phoenix and these people who
live In phoenix and work out there and so. Forth
and so a friend of, mine her name Is Michelle, blau.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Has been in the field for twenty two. Years she
has a master's in.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Psychology she's worked in the mental Health field currently is
in Homeless Field, services, sorry homeless Services, field AND i
reached out to her and another friend of the, show
Doctor Carrie, sampson And michelle, Says, OH i have so many,
opinions namely that there needs to be a significant amount
(12:52):
of money put into place for training all, officers increasing
the number OF cit, officers more social workers to ride,
along more mental health services for the. POLICE i actually
have a proposal That i've been trying to get past
with The city Of mesa regarding a similar concept SOMETHING
i worked on In, Portland, oregon and would love to
see In. Phoenix and So mesa is basically in the
(13:15):
larger metropolitan, area it's basically a suburb Of. Phoenix Doctor
Carrie sampson ways in. Again she's an associate professor At Arizona.
State her research focuses ON k through, twelve educational, leadership,
policymaking and, equity with a particular emphasis on school, boards,
districts and community. Advocacy she, says from my vantage, point
it seems like a great move, forward But i'm not
(13:37):
in the thick of providing social. Services shell makes some
points that suggest these services are serely severely, underfunded and.
Undersupported if that's the, case it seems like a performative
move and unfunded. Mandate michelle then responds, saying, exactly we
can have great ideas all day, long but if we
don't fund, them we. Fail portland defunded the police and decriminalized,
(13:59):
substances but nothing to support harm reduction and the mental health.
Services so naturally it failed, miserably and then all The
republicans were, like, see it.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Was maddening to.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Watch she, Says i've been in the field twenty two,
years and if someone would just put me in, CHARGE
i could make stuff. Happen so, Again i'm excited that
this is something that at least as they're experimenting with In.
Phoenix i'd love for it to again have its day
(14:28):
in the sun so we can see the benefits of.
It and this obviously being something that you AND i
have pushed for for some, time it feels good to know,
that you, know at least we have something happening in
a big enough city to maybe make some inroads. There
so moving, on let's talk about the president. Again so,
(14:55):
yeah WHAT i was saying is THAT i don't know
if you're like, me and you grew up in a
country where in moments where there was a national or global,
tragedy the president would.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Speak and it would offer.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Comfort this was true kind of crossed the board in
my estimation BECAUSE i do Remember George Bush, junior and
during nine to ELEVEN i was in, College GEORGE. W
(15:37):
bush and, Me GEORGE. W. Bush, yeah DID i get it?
Wrong you Said George Bush. Junior his Father's GEORGE. H. W.
Bush He's GEORGE. W, bush Not George, okay that's the
GUY i was thinking. Of but, YEAH i remember during
nine to eleven he came out and he had maybe
(15:59):
they weren't words of, comfort but he HAD i remember
taking comfort in his sober approach to that. Moment could
someone have done a better, job, sure but he was the.
(16:21):
Guy it happened on his, watch and he did something that,
certainly you, know in, hindsight seems more, presidential BUT i
won't take it away from in the moment it seemed.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
Presidential he did what a president would. Do he got out.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
There you, KNOW q AND i have a, joke an inside,
joke but you, know you got to Have George bush
when he started talking about, war you, know and that's
HOW i remember presidents responding to national. Tragedies AND i
picked On GEORGE. W bush because he's A republican AND
i did not vote for, him, Right so it's not
(16:59):
Like i'm Picking, democratic you, know presidents Or republican presidents
to pick. On i'm just know that the office typically
comes with that type of. Responsibility, well in the past
couple of, days we've had a couple of.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Snares makes no.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Difference let's call them national, tragedies And Donald trump has
managed to make them. Worse according to a lot of.
People this isn't just ramses And q's. Thoughts a lot
of people and this is Why i'm able to share
these notes with. You so this first one comes From
The New York. Times President trump seized on the stabbing
death Of Rob reiner and his wife to make a
baseless attack on The hollywood director less than a day
(17:39):
after reporting of his, killing suggesting that Mister hiner's criticism
of Mister trump may have led to his. Murder the
attack on Mister reiner so soon after his death prompted
a rare backlash against The president from SOME maga Aligned,
republicans some of whom urged The president to retract his.
Comments Mister trump wrote on to True social On monday
that Mister ryan death was quote reportedly due to the
(18:01):
anger he caused in others through his, massive unyielding and
incurable affliction with a mind crippling disease known As trump derangement.
Syndrome asked by reporters later in the day whether he
stood by those, comments Mister trump was. Unapologetic. Quote WHILE
i wasn't a fan of his at, all he was
a deranged. PERSON i thought he was very bad for our.
Country the reiners thirty two year old son has been
(18:24):
booked on suspicion of. Murder the police said there was
no indication from the authorities that the couple's political beliefs
had anything to do with their. Deaths Mister hiner was
found dead On, sunday long side his, Wife michelle's Singer,
reiner at their home In Los. Angeles Mister trump's attack
brought immediate, outrage including from close allies who said the
attack Undercut republicans call for Civility after the assassination Of
(18:46):
charlie Kirk, Hmmm prominent conservatives called for public, shaming, firings
and the threat of prosecution for those who spoke ill
of Mister. Kirk all, Right, now if that wasn't, enough
let me sure another one just from the bi. In
President donald Try trump is facing criticism after his response
to a deadly mass shooting At Brown, university where two
people were killed and nine others injured during finals. Week
(19:08):
speaking at A White House christmas reception On, Sunday december,
Fourteenth trump addressed the, attack which occurred the day, prior
which Was december, thirteenth inside an engineering building on The
Ivy league campus In Rhode. Island Quote Brown university great,
school really one of the greatest schools anywhere in the,
World trump, said before adding quote things can. Happen so
(19:30):
to the nine, injured get well, fast and to the
families of those two that are no longer with, US
i pay my deepest regards and respects from The United
states Of. America While trump offered, condolences the phrase things
can happen quickly drew backlash, online with critics accusing the
president of minimizing the severity of the violence and showing
(19:51):
a lack of empathy for the victims and their. Families
so this things can, happen thing that to me sounds
very similar to other things That i've, heard basically excusing
gun violence because there's no way to fix that, problem
(20:18):
or will we need to accept that problem in order
to continue to enjoy.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Our Second. Amendment, Right.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
So it sounds dismissive Because Donald, trump if he's shown,
anything he's shown that he's effective at getting stuff.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Done that he wants.
Speaker 1 (20:38):
Done and IF i would imagine if he wanted there
to be some gun reform or some legislator, something some
approach to, this which again the majority of the country
wants some form of gun, control the government to step
in and.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Make this.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
Better when When trump says things can have and it
comes across as dismissive and just like kind of, like, oh,
well you, know this is what are you going to? Do?
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Anyway rest in, peace, everybody you. Know and so.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Again we have a, president rather than being solution, oriented providing,
comfort what have, you we have a president that almost
does the opposite. Consistently and sometimes he might appeal to
a fraction of his own, base like the most EXTREME maga.
(21:32):
Folks sometimes it's in the middle of his. Base sometimes
it's at the more let's call it progressive side of his,
base and he alienates his hard maga you know, base
but rarely does he provide comfort for the majority Of.
Americans it's typically just a slice of the population and
everyone else is just, like this is what we have
(21:52):
to deal, with and it's heartbreaking to know that our
friends and neighbors and country folks have voted for.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
This some people voted three.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
TIMES. Q i want to make sure that you got
the rest of the time here if you want to
talk about this. Too you, know it's an interesting.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
Thing even when things like this happen And republicans and you,
know Maga republicans who have been lockstep with him on
everything else disagree with, him he still dismisses.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
It so there's no reigning him.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
In it's him above, Everything him above everything slipped, out
and his response to the criticism of, this he doubled
down on it when speaking to reporters at The White.
House and he'll find a way to center himself even
in your. Death great for a leader of the free,
world don't you. Think, Nope, Nope that's WHY i started saying.
Speaker 1 (22:40):
That started by saying, that you, Know i'm. ACCUSTOMED i
lived most of my life under you, know the idea
that the president was the president of all of the,
people even if you voted for him or not so,
well that's going to do it for us here On Civic.
CIPHER i have been your host ramses Ja.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
I am qward and be.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Sure to follow us on all social media. Platforms you
can find us At Civic cipher that is C i
B I c C i p h E. R also
hit the website civiccipher dot. Com you can download this
in any previous. Episode, also you can send a, Donation
you can suggest any topics you want us to, cover
or just generally interact with. Us so you can find
me on all platforms at ramses ja q is on
all platforms at im qward and until next, time y'all,
(23:29):
peace
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