June 28, 2025 • 22 mins
Today’s guest is a social media influencer and activist that goes by the name of Asian Soph found online at the handle @asian_soph or @MixedPresent. She speaks on and organizes around the mixed BIPOC/multiracial experience in the United States.
In the second half of the show, Soph discusses recent protests in LA, as well as how outliers, infiltrators, and plants can/do shift the optics of otherwise largely peaceful protests.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Keep on riding, would have says. We continue to broadcast
the balance and defend the discourse from the hip hop
Weekly Studios. Welcome back to Civic Cipher. I'm your host,
Ramsey's Ja.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
He is Ramsey's Jaw. I am q Ward. You are
hopefully still tuned in or really just now tuning into
Civic Cipher.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Either way, we appreciate you and the time that you're
spending with us. And today's guest, who is a social
media influencer that goes by the name of Asian Soap.
She can be found online at the handle at Asian Underscore,
self sph or at Mixed Present and she is one
such individual who speaks on the mixed bipod multiracial experience
(00:38):
in the United States. And we are having just a
grand time talking with her about the state of the world.
And you know, things have been better, but I think
that there's a sense of calmness that comes with at
least understanding the nature of the problem, and she certainly
help us get to the bottom of a lot of
the goings on. Before we continue our conversation, it is
(01:00):
time to be aba, become a better ally. And today's Baba,
we want you to visit stopaapihet dot org. It's been
a while since we've mentioned this org, but they are
one of our favorite orgs to support, and so I'll
share from their website. In the face of inhumane mass deportation,
raids on places like fruit farms and family homes, militarized
(01:21):
force against peaceful protesters, and a sharp escalation of Trump's
authoritarian political agend of millions of people, including many Asian
Americans and Pacific Islanders, decided they had enough. From Los
Angeles to San Francisco, and from Houston and Philadelphia, nationwide
protests bought together people of all backgrounds shouldered to shoulder
with Black, Indigenous, and Latino communities. They showed the world
what solidarity looks like and proved to each other that
(01:43):
they are stronger when they stand together.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
The numbers add up.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
According to the latest data from State of Hate Report,
more than nine to ten aapi adults believe in the
importance of cross racial solidarity, and more than eight and
ten believe it is necessary to end racial discrimination. Trump
is working over time to divide us against each other
any failing on all accounts. This means people cannot give
up now. We must continue to hold the line with
(02:08):
other communities. Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders and all others
need to keep joining protests, calling lawmakers, organizing communities, and
showing up for immigrant neighbors as would our closest friends,
because the fight for justice isn't over and we need
each other to continue pushing back against the abuse of
power against our communities. Data and research, policy and advocacy,
(02:33):
community care, and strategic communications are all ways that AAPI
or stop AAPI dot org uses your investment to make
an impact in the community. So do us a favor.
Visit STOPAAPI hate dot org and make a donation, or
(02:54):
if you can't do that, figure out some other way
to get involved again stop AAPI hate dot org. Okay,
so self, let's switch gears because you have been on
the ground in Los Angeles. So I know that everyone
knows about.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
The ice raids and the protests and so forth, but
not everybody has been able to get a first hand
account of what it was like to be on the ground.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
So one of the things that we learned in twenty twenty,
because Q and I were both out protesting during the
racial reckoning of twenty twenty, Black Lives Matter movement.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Is that we could be out there with our children.
We could be out there.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Holding hands, singing songs, chanting Kendrick Lamar lyrics and all
that sort of stuff, and we'd go home after the
protest was over, after we'd reached the end and everyone
had dispersed, we would see on the news that it
was a riot or otherwise some form of some mischaracterization
of the event that took place. Like we could see
(04:10):
like I got an afro, So it's really easy to say, oh,
look at me, I'm in the corner right there, So
I was these are the protests we're ed.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
I ain't see your riot at all.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Right, So again based in LA getting a chance to
go out to these protests, you know, I want you
to talk about what it's like on the ground, what
you've seen out there, and give you a chance to
really establish a factual narrative that is not secondhand for
(04:39):
our listeners.
Speaker 5 (04:42):
I mean, well, first and foremost anyone who's not actually here,
I always say they got the second last opinion because
you don't actually know you know what I mean, And
it's exactly what you said, Like it's beautiful community is
people coming together you know, we're demanding justice and dignity
and chain and trying to protect people in our community
(05:03):
and obviously pushing back against you. I mean, this was
part of the No Kings protests as well too, And
all it is is being in community with one another
almost always, like people are usually dancing, there's usually music,
like I have been at a myriad of protests that
are all different, and they usually involve a lot of joy,
(05:24):
and you can be there with your kids. A lot
of people were there with their kids, and oftentimes what
happens this is not a new tactic. Calling protests a
riot is just this classic tactic to delegitimize them. And
I've organized a number of rallies and marches and vigils
(05:44):
and all kinds of things, and what I see on
the ground is intention and care and community. It's very organized,
is very peaceful, but the media often zooms in on
the bad actors, and law enforcement is known to provoke,
can escalate as it always has. I mean, when you're
rooted in being slave catchers, it's rotten to the core
(06:06):
rights I'm just saying. And then that also it's known
historically that not only has law enforcement and government agencies
infiltrated a lot of these movements, but also the far
right to create chaos and to shift the narrative. It's
not new. It happened with the Black Panthers, it happened
with labor re unions, happened in Selma, happened in all
(06:28):
of these major movements. And these far right agitators come
in and infiltrate to cause chaos, and it gives the
cops a reason to justify a crackdown. It gives you know,
the National Guard or whoever's getting called in a reason
to have violence. And they don't reflect the heart of
the movement when this happens, and people it's just people
(06:51):
demanding dignity and justice and change, like I said. And
the media does such a great job at zooming in
on the wrong thing and talking about the wrong thing
all the time, and that's exactly what we're seeing. And
so people get this narrative that spoon fed to them,
and it shows how easily they fall for propaganda. And
that's how I feel about that.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
You know, it's a really interesting thing happening.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Now.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
We talk about the muzzle velocity with which the president
has disrupted and really terrorized marginalized groups in this country
since he was re elected. And what I know about
our president, what I think a lot of people know
but some won't admit, is that he's not that bright,
he's not that intelligent, he's not that structured, he's not
(07:35):
that he didn't have his ducks in a row in
that way. So you'd imagine that there had to be
some pre planned, you know, maybe nine hundred million page
document that may have already been written, so that by
the time he became president, maybe all the steps that
he needed to take would already be laid out, and
(07:58):
he'd be able to very very efficiently execute something like
what he's doing now. Now, if only any of us
could have saw something like that coming before he got
elected and warned everybody about it, so that we could
have prepared ourselves and maybe made some different decisions. But
we didn't have that insight. We weren't able to warn people,
(08:21):
and we weren't able to let people know what was coming.
So now it's like a oiled machine. And even things
that are already diabolical in nature, you dig one layer
lead one layer deeper, or you flip through a couple
hundred more pages, and you realize that it's even more
nefarious than you thought. So what we see and those
(08:45):
of us who are frustrated, angered, hurt, terrified at the
possibility of what might happen to us and our families
with these ice raids, and with the way that immigrants
and just people of color in general are being treated.
They're not just singling out immigrants, They're using immigrants as
an excuse to really snatch up whoever they want, citizens
(09:07):
and non citizens alike. That by itself seems cruel enough,
but you start flipping through these pages and you realize
that there are people who are involved in a far
more nefarious and capitalistic way that might benefit in ways
you never imagined from being able to, you know, perhaps
(09:28):
snatch people off the streets and turn them into free labor.
I was wondering if you may have heard anything about
something like that possibly going on in our country, as
ice and people dressed as ice just our cart blunche
to snatch people off the street, out their cars, and
out of their homes.
Speaker 5 (09:47):
I mean, I mean just talking about the ice detention
centers themselves, which, by the way, a lot of these
popped up so fast. I mean, we can't like give
people housing. But somehow we can create these centers like
so quick. But they's just a humanitarian crisis. And they're
detained without due process, which is unconstitutional. In the constitution,
(10:11):
you don't have to be a citizen to get certain rights,
and a lot of people just don't know enough about
the constitution and I think that's a huge problem. But
they're detained without due process. The conditions are horrid. It's
a dollar a day, you know, for labor, five dollars
per phone call. I mean, we see that. I mean,
it's just basically like the prison system. Essentially, it's minimal
(10:34):
medical care. You know. Some people were talking about they
haven't been fed. Some people were talking about they were
snatched up and held in abasement and not fed. Families
didn't know where they were. And these centers are run
very much by for profit companies that with government contracts
that require them to stay full. There's quotas, and people's
(10:55):
freedom is directly tied to a business model, much like
the prison system.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Same way.
Speaker 5 (11:00):
So if someone has proven to be wrongfully detained, they've
still endured a system designed to dehumanize them. And it's
not just about immigration policy. It's incarceration for profit, which
is very much a legacy of the United States. But yeah,
I mean, I don't know what even else to say, Like,
(11:20):
I mean, there's not enough words in the language, in
the English language to talk about how despicable I think
all of this is.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
You know, this is why I think the protests are
so necessary and why I think, you know, conversations like
these are necessary.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Right now.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
You know there, you know, there's one half of the
country that is controlling all the levers of government, and
it's up to the rest of us to ensure that
this doesn't become the norm for this country. Those of
us that still believe in the promise of this country,
(12:01):
those of us who are born here or not, that
have a vested interest in the success of this country,
it's up to us to.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
Protest. That's what we that's what we're able to do.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
And for those of us that feel that we're under
a hostile government, it's still, for the most part, technically
legal for us to do that. I want to circle
back though, because you mentioned something that I think a
lot of people maybe don't realize. First, I'm going to
(12:41):
connect a couple dots. You said something about, you know, tactics,
right wing tactics that they'll use to change narratives, co
op narratives, you know, rebrand things, et cetera. And to
their credit, they're very good at that. You mentioned, you know,
people on the right fil trading movements, you know, protests, etc.
(13:05):
Police infil trading movements. And this is something that I
remember too. I was in like the discord chats, and
like I got into the deep end real early because
I was on the radio. So they were like, hey, look,
we could trust you, so look out for these people.
They usually wear these type of shoes and blah blah blah,
and you could see them out there and they would
whisper in our ear. Hey, that guy is probably one
of them. So anyway, I have not yet come across
(13:33):
the same type of kind of underhanded strategies used by
folks on the left, folks who are more progressive in
terms of their politics. I don't know if there were
any leftists on January sixth at that protest. They were
also trying to set it off and trying to you know,
(13:56):
create friction unnecessarily. I think that those were all bona
fide right wingers doing exactly what their boss told him
to do, and indeed, in any movement, I haven't really
seen that, but I will say that the opposite. You know,
I was at a No King's protest in Phoenix and
(14:18):
there was a gentleman that came out. He was wearing
a gentleman loosely, but he came out and he was
wearing a some sort of I don't know what this
shirt said, I forget, but it had some sort of
message on the shirt that implied that he was a
right winger. But you wouldn't know because you know, there's
a lot of American flags out there, and indeed I
love that effort for folks to reclaim the American flag
(14:42):
for all of us, not just for the right wing.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
But this guy's out there.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
He's got a full face mask, like full ski mask on,
which again there are some people that that's how they
move nowadays, right, But he gets out there and he
like starts picking a fight with somebody. Was super weird.
And you know, of course there's the shouting, the back
and forth. But he's there all alone at the No
Kings protest, so everybody there is on one side of
(15:08):
this topic. He's out there on his own starting a
fight that that turns into like a fistfight, and you know,
the guy ends up losing that fight. Indeed, there were
other people that jumped in to try to break the
fight up, but this was a bigger guy, so he
had a couple of people on him just to tone
him down. He would say he got jumped, but you know,
(15:33):
I don't know what he expected to come out there,
and it'd be like seven thousand people versus him. You know.
But anyway, once he gets up, after you know, his defeat,
he pulls out a gun. Everybody starts running okay, and
you know, people start telling the police, oh, he's got
a gun. He's got a gun. Cop jumps out, chopper
(15:56):
on deck, runs into the crowd, grabs him, arrests him.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
Brings him to the car. Now I saw this happen.
I got a video of it.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
And people in the comments section we're trying to say, oh,
y'all jumped in when he was out there, you know,
the political opposition, They were saying all that type of stuff.
But I suspect that he was one such infiltrator or
a counter protester that didn't come out there to hold
a sign and you know, be accounted among the numbers.
(16:24):
He came out there to actually start friction. Now, because
I know that this has happened with individuals. Indeed, that's
the most recent example I've seen, but I've seen it
happen with police.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
I've seen police throw rocks, you know, like all kinds
of stuff.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
And I know that there's this narrative on the right
that you know, there's LA is this lawless land full
of agitators and rioters and whatnot. I guess what would
you if you could talk to a person who consumes
far right content, what would you say to them if
(17:00):
they were legitimately curious about the nature of not just
the protests, the recent protest, but protest from more progressive
groups in general. What would you say to a person
be willing to listen but has that viewpoint.
Speaker 5 (17:14):
Well, I usually am like, do you want like a
short answer or a long answer? A longer answer would
include more historical facts. But for the most part, what
I would tell somebody is, don't believe what you see
in a ten second clip. You know, come to the protests,
see the organized Like when I say community people are
handing out water, they're handing out food, they're taking care
(17:35):
of each other there. When you organize, often you have
to coordinate, like people to keep you safe and medics,
and there's a lot of translation being done for elders
or people who may not speak English. It's protecting each other.
And you see the love and the acknowledgement land acknowledgments. Yeah,
like you see the love and the rage that drives
(17:58):
people to be in the streets. Not for destruction, but
it's for dignity. And you know, another thing to do
is to ask why don't just take things at face value?
Ask why? And ask who is benefiting from you believing
this narrative about it? You know, the real issues are
not broken windows, They're not any sort.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
Of property on fire.
Speaker 5 (18:22):
Yeah, the broken system is the issue. The system that
made the protest necessary is the issue.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
Yeah, very good place.
Speaker 5 (18:33):
And I think a lot of people just again, they
take a lot of things at face value and are
very much not interested in doing their own research and
critically thinking, which is really upsetting because you miss out
on the opportunity to really grow as a person and
to really expand your worldview.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
All right, well, let's shift gears here.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Do us a favor, and because there's there's a lot
of conversations in different like racial groups, and you're one
such person that might be able to speak to the
experiences or the conversations being had in one such group,
discuss what the implications are for Asian Americans to join
(19:16):
this movement or what the consequences could be if they don't.
Speaker 5 (19:23):
Yeah, honestly, not just for Asian Americans, for all people
who are in a marginalized identity group. At the end
of the day, all of this is rooted in racism.
It all goes back to colonization, it all goes back
(19:45):
to slavery, it all goes back. It's all motivated by
the same things. And you know, Asian Americans actually have
a very long, powerful history of solidarity with other marginalized identities. Yes,
I know, yeah, from the Third World Liberation Front and
the Black Student Union at.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
San Francis very good, the Udi.
Speaker 5 (20:06):
Kochiyama standing beside Malcolm ed you know, Grace Lee Boggs
and her husband. But too often that history has been
hidden and instead we're fed this myth of the model
minority to be a wedge between us and other communities
of color. And a lot of it, at the end
of the day, is rooted in anti blackness, and anyone
(20:27):
who doesn't understand that the only reason we have the
ability to be citizens and to vote and to have
the rights that we have is because of black people
just doesn't know enough about our history. And if we're
not asking the question of why and who does this
benefit for us? To not be aware of this stuff again,
(20:47):
you you can be so easily swayed and conditioned into
believing things that are not rooted in reality, and then
you end up voting against your best interests. Like those
Asians who voted against affirmative action and did that whole lawsuit.
They just took the word of the white man, and
that's we got to stop taking else But anyway, joining
the movement isn't just about you know, being transactional or
(21:10):
showing up for ourselves. It's about showing up for others.
It's about reclaiming our own history and our own dignity
and our own collective liberation. Because it's really true that
saying unless we're all free, no one's free. And if
we stay silent, if we at the end of the day,
risk being used as pawns and systems that were not
(21:30):
built or designed for us at all, they are not
built or designed to protect us. And unity at the
end of the day is power and we need each
other now more than ever. And if you're not going
to show up now, don't ask people to show up
when it's you that's on the chopping block.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
Just can't be like that.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Well, those are some powerful words and then words that
we all can use, not just one community, but all
of us can use. So unfortunately we're out of time.
I'd love to keep talking to you, so we're gonna
have to have you back on the show. But I
appreciate the time that you spent.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
With us today.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Do us a favorite before you jet shout out all
your social media how folks can tap in with you
and keep up with all the content that you're putting out.
Speaker 5 (22:15):
Yeah, so you go find me at Asian sof Asian Underscore,
s oph on TikTok and Instagram. I actually do prefer
TikTok more. And then you can also find me at
Mixed to Present on Instagram as well too.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
Okay, and don't forget you can follow us on all
platforms at Civic Cipher. You can check me out. I
am Rams's job on platforms.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
I am Qward on all social media as.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
Well, and do us a favorite.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Hit the website Civiccipher dot com and you can submit
any questions topics you want us to cover, make a donation,
download any previous episodes, and anything else that you need
is right there, and we're coming back at you next week,
all right,
Keep on riding, would have says. We continue to broadcast
the balance and defend the discourse from the hip hop
Weekly Studios. Welcome back to Civic Cipher. I'm your host,
Ramsey's Ja.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
He is Ramsey's Jaw. I am q Ward. You are
hopefully still tuned in or really just now tuning into
Civic Cipher.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Either way, we appreciate you and the time that you're
spending with us. And today's guest, who is a social
media influencer that goes by the name of Asian Soap.
She can be found online at the handle at Asian Underscore,
self sph or at Mixed Present and she is one
such individual who speaks on the mixed bipod multiracial experience
(00:38):
in the United States. And we are having just a
grand time talking with her about the state of the world.
And you know, things have been better, but I think
that there's a sense of calmness that comes with at
least understanding the nature of the problem, and she certainly
help us get to the bottom of a lot of
the goings on. Before we continue our conversation, it is
(01:00):
time to be aba, become a better ally. And today's Baba,
we want you to visit stopaapihet dot org. It's been
a while since we've mentioned this org, but they are
one of our favorite orgs to support, and so I'll
share from their website. In the face of inhumane mass deportation,
raids on places like fruit farms and family homes, militarized
(01:21):
force against peaceful protesters, and a sharp escalation of Trump's
authoritarian political agend of millions of people, including many Asian
Americans and Pacific Islanders, decided they had enough. From Los
Angeles to San Francisco, and from Houston and Philadelphia, nationwide
protests bought together people of all backgrounds shouldered to shoulder
with Black, Indigenous, and Latino communities. They showed the world
what solidarity looks like and proved to each other that
(01:43):
they are stronger when they stand together.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
The numbers add up.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
According to the latest data from State of Hate Report,
more than nine to ten aapi adults believe in the
importance of cross racial solidarity, and more than eight and
ten believe it is necessary to end racial discrimination. Trump
is working over time to divide us against each other
any failing on all accounts. This means people cannot give
up now. We must continue to hold the line with
(02:08):
other communities. Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders and all others
need to keep joining protests, calling lawmakers, organizing communities, and
showing up for immigrant neighbors as would our closest friends,
because the fight for justice isn't over and we need
each other to continue pushing back against the abuse of
power against our communities. Data and research, policy and advocacy,
(02:33):
community care, and strategic communications are all ways that AAPI
or stop AAPI dot org uses your investment to make
an impact in the community. So do us a favor.
Visit STOPAAPI hate dot org and make a donation, or
(02:54):
if you can't do that, figure out some other way
to get involved again stop AAPI hate dot org. Okay,
so self, let's switch gears because you have been on
the ground in Los Angeles. So I know that everyone
knows about.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
The ice raids and the protests and so forth, but
not everybody has been able to get a first hand
account of what it was like to be on the ground.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
So one of the things that we learned in twenty twenty,
because Q and I were both out protesting during the
racial reckoning of twenty twenty, Black Lives Matter movement.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Is that we could be out there with our children.
We could be out there.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Holding hands, singing songs, chanting Kendrick Lamar lyrics and all
that sort of stuff, and we'd go home after the
protest was over, after we'd reached the end and everyone
had dispersed, we would see on the news that it
was a riot or otherwise some form of some mischaracterization
of the event that took place. Like we could see
(04:10):
like I got an afro, So it's really easy to say, oh,
look at me, I'm in the corner right there, So
I was these are the protests we're ed.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
I ain't see your riot at all.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Right, So again based in LA getting a chance to
go out to these protests, you know, I want you
to talk about what it's like on the ground, what
you've seen out there, and give you a chance to
really establish a factual narrative that is not secondhand for
(04:39):
our listeners.
Speaker 5 (04:42):
I mean, well, first and foremost anyone who's not actually here,
I always say they got the second last opinion because
you don't actually know you know what I mean, And
it's exactly what you said, Like it's beautiful community is
people coming together you know, we're demanding justice and dignity
and chain and trying to protect people in our community
(05:03):
and obviously pushing back against you. I mean, this was
part of the No Kings protests as well too, And
all it is is being in community with one another
almost always, like people are usually dancing, there's usually music,
like I have been at a myriad of protests that
are all different, and they usually involve a lot of joy,
(05:24):
and you can be there with your kids. A lot
of people were there with their kids, and oftentimes what
happens this is not a new tactic. Calling protests a
riot is just this classic tactic to delegitimize them. And
I've organized a number of rallies and marches and vigils
(05:44):
and all kinds of things, and what I see on
the ground is intention and care and community. It's very organized,
is very peaceful, but the media often zooms in on
the bad actors, and law enforcement is known to provoke,
can escalate as it always has. I mean, when you're
rooted in being slave catchers, it's rotten to the core
(06:06):
rights I'm just saying. And then that also it's known
historically that not only has law enforcement and government agencies
infiltrated a lot of these movements, but also the far
right to create chaos and to shift the narrative. It's
not new. It happened with the Black Panthers, it happened
with labor re unions, happened in Selma, happened in all
(06:28):
of these major movements. And these far right agitators come
in and infiltrate to cause chaos, and it gives the
cops a reason to justify a crackdown. It gives you know,
the National Guard or whoever's getting called in a reason
to have violence. And they don't reflect the heart of
the movement when this happens, and people it's just people
(06:51):
demanding dignity and justice and change, like I said. And
the media does such a great job at zooming in
on the wrong thing and talking about the wrong thing
all the time, and that's exactly what we're seeing. And
so people get this narrative that spoon fed to them,
and it shows how easily they fall for propaganda. And
that's how I feel about that.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
You know, it's a really interesting thing happening.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Now.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
We talk about the muzzle velocity with which the president
has disrupted and really terrorized marginalized groups in this country
since he was re elected. And what I know about
our president, what I think a lot of people know
but some won't admit, is that he's not that bright,
he's not that intelligent, he's not that structured, he's not
(07:35):
that he didn't have his ducks in a row in
that way. So you'd imagine that there had to be
some pre planned, you know, maybe nine hundred million page
document that may have already been written, so that by
the time he became president, maybe all the steps that
he needed to take would already be laid out, and
(07:58):
he'd be able to very very efficiently execute something like
what he's doing now. Now, if only any of us
could have saw something like that coming before he got
elected and warned everybody about it, so that we could
have prepared ourselves and maybe made some different decisions. But
we didn't have that insight. We weren't able to warn people,
(08:21):
and we weren't able to let people know what was coming.
So now it's like a oiled machine. And even things
that are already diabolical in nature, you dig one layer
lead one layer deeper, or you flip through a couple
hundred more pages, and you realize that it's even more
nefarious than you thought. So what we see and those
(08:45):
of us who are frustrated, angered, hurt, terrified at the
possibility of what might happen to us and our families
with these ice raids, and with the way that immigrants
and just people of color in general are being treated.
They're not just singling out immigrants, They're using immigrants as
an excuse to really snatch up whoever they want, citizens
(09:07):
and non citizens alike. That by itself seems cruel enough,
but you start flipping through these pages and you realize
that there are people who are involved in a far
more nefarious and capitalistic way that might benefit in ways
you never imagined from being able to, you know, perhaps
(09:28):
snatch people off the streets and turn them into free labor.
I was wondering if you may have heard anything about
something like that possibly going on in our country, as
ice and people dressed as ice just our cart blunche
to snatch people off the street, out their cars, and
out of their homes.
Speaker 5 (09:47):
I mean, I mean just talking about the ice detention
centers themselves, which, by the way, a lot of these
popped up so fast. I mean, we can't like give
people housing. But somehow we can create these centers like
so quick. But they's just a humanitarian crisis. And they're
detained without due process, which is unconstitutional. In the constitution,
(10:11):
you don't have to be a citizen to get certain rights,
and a lot of people just don't know enough about
the constitution and I think that's a huge problem. But
they're detained without due process. The conditions are horrid. It's
a dollar a day, you know, for labor, five dollars
per phone call. I mean, we see that. I mean,
it's just basically like the prison system. Essentially, it's minimal
(10:34):
medical care. You know. Some people were talking about they
haven't been fed. Some people were talking about they were
snatched up and held in abasement and not fed. Families
didn't know where they were. And these centers are run
very much by for profit companies that with government contracts
that require them to stay full. There's quotas, and people's
(10:55):
freedom is directly tied to a business model, much like
the prison system.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Same way.
Speaker 5 (11:00):
So if someone has proven to be wrongfully detained, they've
still endured a system designed to dehumanize them. And it's
not just about immigration policy. It's incarceration for profit, which
is very much a legacy of the United States. But yeah,
I mean, I don't know what even else to say, Like,
(11:20):
I mean, there's not enough words in the language, in
the English language to talk about how despicable I think
all of this is.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
You know, this is why I think the protests are
so necessary and why I think, you know, conversations like
these are necessary.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Right now.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
You know there, you know, there's one half of the
country that is controlling all the levers of government, and
it's up to the rest of us to ensure that
this doesn't become the norm for this country. Those of
us that still believe in the promise of this country,
(12:01):
those of us who are born here or not, that
have a vested interest in the success of this country,
it's up to us to.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
Protest. That's what we that's what we're able to do.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
And for those of us that feel that we're under
a hostile government, it's still, for the most part, technically
legal for us to do that. I want to circle
back though, because you mentioned something that I think a
lot of people maybe don't realize. First, I'm going to
(12:41):
connect a couple dots. You said something about, you know, tactics,
right wing tactics that they'll use to change narratives, co
op narratives, you know, rebrand things, et cetera. And to
their credit, they're very good at that. You mentioned, you know,
people on the right fil trading movements, you know, protests, etc.
(13:05):
Police infil trading movements. And this is something that I
remember too. I was in like the discord chats, and
like I got into the deep end real early because
I was on the radio. So they were like, hey, look,
we could trust you, so look out for these people.
They usually wear these type of shoes and blah blah blah,
and you could see them out there and they would
whisper in our ear. Hey, that guy is probably one
of them. So anyway, I have not yet come across
(13:33):
the same type of kind of underhanded strategies used by
folks on the left, folks who are more progressive in
terms of their politics. I don't know if there were
any leftists on January sixth at that protest. They were
also trying to set it off and trying to you know,
(13:56):
create friction unnecessarily. I think that those were all bona
fide right wingers doing exactly what their boss told him
to do, and indeed, in any movement, I haven't really
seen that, but I will say that the opposite. You know,
I was at a No King's protest in Phoenix and
(14:18):
there was a gentleman that came out. He was wearing
a gentleman loosely, but he came out and he was
wearing a some sort of I don't know what this
shirt said, I forget, but it had some sort of
message on the shirt that implied that he was a
right winger. But you wouldn't know because you know, there's
a lot of American flags out there, and indeed I
love that effort for folks to reclaim the American flag
(14:42):
for all of us, not just for the right wing.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
But this guy's out there.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
He's got a full face mask, like full ski mask on,
which again there are some people that that's how they
move nowadays, right, But he gets out there and he
like starts picking a fight with somebody. Was super weird.
And you know, of course there's the shouting, the back
and forth. But he's there all alone at the No
Kings protest, so everybody there is on one side of
(15:08):
this topic. He's out there on his own starting a
fight that that turns into like a fistfight, and you know,
the guy ends up losing that fight. Indeed, there were
other people that jumped in to try to break the
fight up, but this was a bigger guy, so he
had a couple of people on him just to tone
him down. He would say he got jumped, but you know,
(15:33):
I don't know what he expected to come out there,
and it'd be like seven thousand people versus him. You know.
But anyway, once he gets up, after you know, his defeat,
he pulls out a gun. Everybody starts running okay, and
you know, people start telling the police, oh, he's got
a gun. He's got a gun. Cop jumps out, chopper
(15:56):
on deck, runs into the crowd, grabs him, arrests him.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
Brings him to the car. Now I saw this happen.
I got a video of it.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
And people in the comments section we're trying to say, oh,
y'all jumped in when he was out there, you know,
the political opposition, They were saying all that type of stuff.
But I suspect that he was one such infiltrator or
a counter protester that didn't come out there to hold
a sign and you know, be accounted among the numbers.
(16:24):
He came out there to actually start friction. Now, because
I know that this has happened with individuals. Indeed, that's
the most recent example I've seen, but I've seen it
happen with police.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
I've seen police throw rocks, you know, like all kinds
of stuff.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
And I know that there's this narrative on the right
that you know, there's LA is this lawless land full
of agitators and rioters and whatnot. I guess what would
you if you could talk to a person who consumes
far right content, what would you say to them if
(17:00):
they were legitimately curious about the nature of not just
the protests, the recent protest, but protest from more progressive
groups in general. What would you say to a person
be willing to listen but has that viewpoint.
Speaker 5 (17:14):
Well, I usually am like, do you want like a
short answer or a long answer? A longer answer would
include more historical facts. But for the most part, what
I would tell somebody is, don't believe what you see
in a ten second clip. You know, come to the protests,
see the organized Like when I say community people are
handing out water, they're handing out food, they're taking care
(17:35):
of each other there. When you organize, often you have
to coordinate, like people to keep you safe and medics,
and there's a lot of translation being done for elders
or people who may not speak English. It's protecting each other.
And you see the love and the acknowledgement land acknowledgments. Yeah,
like you see the love and the rage that drives
(17:58):
people to be in the streets. Not for destruction, but
it's for dignity. And you know, another thing to do
is to ask why don't just take things at face value?
Ask why? And ask who is benefiting from you believing
this narrative about it? You know, the real issues are
not broken windows, They're not any sort.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
Of property on fire.
Speaker 5 (18:22):
Yeah, the broken system is the issue. The system that
made the protest necessary is the issue.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
Yeah, very good place.
Speaker 5 (18:33):
And I think a lot of people just again, they
take a lot of things at face value and are
very much not interested in doing their own research and
critically thinking, which is really upsetting because you miss out
on the opportunity to really grow as a person and
to really expand your worldview.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
All right, well, let's shift gears here.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Do us a favor, and because there's there's a lot
of conversations in different like racial groups, and you're one
such person that might be able to speak to the
experiences or the conversations being had in one such group,
discuss what the implications are for Asian Americans to join
(19:16):
this movement or what the consequences could be if they don't.
Speaker 5 (19:23):
Yeah, honestly, not just for Asian Americans, for all people
who are in a marginalized identity group. At the end
of the day, all of this is rooted in racism.
It all goes back to colonization, it all goes back
(19:45):
to slavery, it all goes back. It's all motivated by
the same things. And you know, Asian Americans actually have
a very long, powerful history of solidarity with other marginalized identities. Yes,
I know, yeah, from the Third World Liberation Front and
the Black Student Union at.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
San Francis very good, the Udi.
Speaker 5 (20:06):
Kochiyama standing beside Malcolm ed you know, Grace Lee Boggs
and her husband. But too often that history has been
hidden and instead we're fed this myth of the model
minority to be a wedge between us and other communities
of color. And a lot of it, at the end
of the day, is rooted in anti blackness, and anyone
(20:27):
who doesn't understand that the only reason we have the
ability to be citizens and to vote and to have
the rights that we have is because of black people
just doesn't know enough about our history. And if we're
not asking the question of why and who does this
benefit for us? To not be aware of this stuff again,
(20:47):
you you can be so easily swayed and conditioned into
believing things that are not rooted in reality, and then
you end up voting against your best interests. Like those
Asians who voted against affirmative action and did that whole lawsuit.
They just took the word of the white man, and
that's we got to stop taking else But anyway, joining
the movement isn't just about you know, being transactional or
(21:10):
showing up for ourselves. It's about showing up for others.
It's about reclaiming our own history and our own dignity
and our own collective liberation. Because it's really true that
saying unless we're all free, no one's free. And if
we stay silent, if we at the end of the day,
risk being used as pawns and systems that were not
(21:30):
built or designed for us at all, they are not
built or designed to protect us. And unity at the
end of the day is power and we need each
other now more than ever. And if you're not going
to show up now, don't ask people to show up
when it's you that's on the chopping block.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
Just can't be like that.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Well, those are some powerful words and then words that
we all can use, not just one community, but all
of us can use. So unfortunately we're out of time.
I'd love to keep talking to you, so we're gonna
have to have you back on the show. But I
appreciate the time that you spent.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
With us today.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Do us a favorite before you jet shout out all
your social media how folks can tap in with you
and keep up with all the content that you're putting out.
Speaker 5 (22:15):
Yeah, so you go find me at Asian sof Asian Underscore,
s oph on TikTok and Instagram. I actually do prefer
TikTok more. And then you can also find me at
Mixed to Present on Instagram as well too.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
Okay, and don't forget you can follow us on all
platforms at Civic Cipher. You can check me out. I
am Rams's job on platforms.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
I am Qward on all social media as.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
Well, and do us a favorite.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Hit the website Civiccipher dot com and you can submit
any questions topics you want us to cover, make a donation,
download any previous episodes, and anything else that you need
is right there, and we're coming back at you next week,
all right,
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