Today’s guest is Amy Owen—a Civil Rights Attorney that has worked major civil rights cases alongside Ben Crump. She is known for working alongside professional athletes, celebrities, and other high-profile individuals. Find her online as Pineapple lawyer.
In the first half of the show, Amy discusses the new powers bestowed upon the Trump administration by the Supreme Court, as well as the limiting of the powers of the lower courts. We discuss the implications of this decision and what people can expect.
Support the show: https://www.patreon.com/civiccipher?utm_source=search
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Broadcasting from the Hip Hop Weekly Studios. I'd like to
welcome you to another episode of Civic Cipher, where our
mission is to foster allyship, empathy and understanding. I am
your host, Ramsey Ja.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
He is rams' Jah, I am q Ward. You are
tuned into Civic Cipher.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Yes you are, and we have a very special show
in store for you today. We are joined by the one,
the only Amy Owen aka Pineapple Lawyer. And for those
that don't know, Amy Owen is a civil rights attorney
who has worked major civil rights cases alongside Benjamin Crump,
and she's known for working alongside professional athletes and celebrities
(00:36):
and other high profile individuals. For those that are unfamiliar,
you can find her online as Pineapple Lawyer and she's
in the studio with us today. So welcome back to
the show.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Thank you so much, Ramseys, thanks for having me. Civic
Cipher is one of my favorites of course.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Okay, for those that don't know, she has worked major
civil rights cases alongside Ben Crump, who's also a friend
of the show, and I've been texting him, so he's
going to come on.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
Here's a busy guy's busy busy guy.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Especially now. But Amy's also known for working alongside professional athlete,
celebrities and other high profile individuals, and you can find
her online at Pineapple Lawyer. And we are going to
be having a conversation about some recent developments with the
Trump administration and some powers that are bestowed upon him
by the Supreme Court and the Supreme Courts, I guess,
(01:27):
limiting of powers elsewhere in the judicial branch, and the
implications of all that. So that's that, and also for
the latter part of the show, we are going to
be discussing what is being marketed as the Big Beautiful Bill.
A lot of folks disagree with that marketing jargon and
Alligator Alcatraz. So we have all of that and so
(01:51):
much more to stick around for, so we hope that
you do. Right now it is time for some ebony excellence.
And today's Ebony excellence come from BET Magazine or BT
dot com, I should say will o'newell becomes the first
black woman crown missed Wisconsin. Along with their talents, Newell
created a community initiative entitled Expression Without Exclusion, aimed at
(02:15):
making the arts more inclusive for the community. This June,
Wisconsin held the annual Miss Wisconsin competition, in will o'newell
became the first black woman to be crown. Will o'newell,
a twenty two year old from Racine, dotting a crown
of natural coils and a stunning green gown, was honored
with the title Miss Wisconsin twenty twenty five contestant in
(02:36):
competition since twenty seventeen when she was a teen, The
twenty two year old beauty went up against twenty nine
contestants from around Wisconsin. As reported by WMTV fifteen News,
Newell received a thirteen thousand dollars endowment in scholarships. Sorry
Newell received thirteen thousand dollars in scholarships along with other
(02:58):
awards as a result of successfully completing in five categories
evening Gown, Talent, Private Interview, Health and Wellness, and on
stage conversation and community Grace name the top scoring vocalist
for the talent section. Noel won the Ryan Guy Memorial
(03:18):
Music Scholarship by singing and I'm telling You from the
Dreamgirls musical, according to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, and you know,
we just wanted to shout her out because you know,
anytime we can get a win, we will take it.
And this one felt a little special. I know you
can't see her photo, but suffice it to say she
(03:39):
is all natural and you know, coming from me personally,
a person that wears my hair the way that it grows.
I always love to see someone kind of walking in
their truth, being their valid, most authentic self, and being
accepted for exactly who she is. So so yeah, that
feel positive and we'll take positive. We can get it
(04:00):
around here. Choose the one that sent this over anything
to add here to.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
It's good to have something good to talk about because
it's real easy right now to get bogged down on
very stressful discouraging and just o't write negative story. So
I'm glad that we even have a feature on something
that's good.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Yeah. Absolutely, Okay, Amy Owen, We've had many conversations and
we appreciate you taking the time to come back and
talk to us again. Usually for folks that are just
kind of coming to the table, you know, when it
comes time to kind of make heads or tails of
the judicial system or criminal proceedings or lawsuits or whatever.
(04:41):
Amy's the person that we go we talked to.
Speaker 4 (04:44):
So that is my world. Yes, so very convoluent's changing.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Let's do this. Introduce yourself. I know I give a
brief introduction, but introduce yourself to our listeners. Make sure
everybody knows who you are, and remind them where to
find you, because I know that your social media is
super popping now on the Internet, as you would say.
But also let's let the folks know who they're going
to be hearing from today.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
Sure.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
So my real name is Amy Owen, but my nickname
is Pineapple Lawyer. I'm known in my community as Pineapple
Lawyer because it's easy to remember. I handle civil rights
and personal injury for anyone, really, but I do specialize
in celebrities, athletes, people who are a little bit more
high profile oftentimes hire me because I have some ins
(05:32):
and outs with that world based on my past, and
I love helping people in general. So people can find
me on Pineapple Lawyer, on Instagram, TikTok, all of those platforms,
it's Pineapple Lawyer.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
My actual website is.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Www dot amyowenlaw dot com, but I think if you
put in Pineapple Lawyer it populates that as well. But yeah,
I just love coming on here. I love talking to
you and Q about relevant issues. I love being your
legal go to. I'll get a text message from you
and I'm always like, it's going to be something good
from Ramseys and Q and Civic Cipher and all the
(06:12):
different platforms that you have. So thank you so much
for having me on. I'm so proud of the work
that you guys are doing. It's so necessarily thank you,
especially right now, it's like really really needed.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
So yeah, yeah, Well, speaking of which, I'll kick us
off Q. SO. Over the weekend, a lot of headlines
about the latest developments with respect to the Supreme Court's decisions,
and first off it talk to us a little bit
about that and what you make of it or what
(06:46):
you've made of it so far.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Sure. So, in law school, one of my favorite subjects
was constitutional law. That's where you learn about the different
branches of government, the presidential branch, the Congress, and judicial
branch of course, the Supreme Court. And what's really interesting
is the interplay between those three branches of government. So
(07:10):
it's very important to know that the Supreme Court is
probably the most powerful aspect of the government because they're
the ones who make sure that the Constitution is read, interpreted,
and followed by the courts of law by the States
or by the country in general as a whole.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Right.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
So this.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Decision coming down that kind of takes away some of
the power of the Supreme Court is very frightening, and
it's frightening especially to I think people who are involved
in the legal profession, like myself, because you know, we
want the consistency of having checks and balances in place
for the different branches of government, and I think this
(07:57):
is eroding that, and it's scary, Like, we don't want
to to turn into a dictatorship. We don't want one
branch of the government to be so omnipotent that it
can squash the jobs of the other parts of the government,
and I feel like this is inching towards that, and
it's very scary.
Speaker 4 (08:17):
Cue your thoughts.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
You know a lot of people, when we kind of
saw what was coming and started to try to ring
the alarm bills, always assumed that checks and balances would
save us, Like, yeah, sure, the dude is, you know,
a bully, and you know there's all these red flags
about him and all the things that he's promising that
he's going to do to harm people. But there's checks
(08:42):
and balances in this country, and one person can't just
decide to do whatever they want to do, right. There's guardrails,
there's these systems in place, these age o systems that
have always been in place. And what you and I
recognize and try to explain to people is this is
not politics as usual. And as we see this guy
(09:02):
rigging everything and really setting things up so that he
controls every lever of government, you kind of saw these
things coming and even before he was re elected, you know,
conversations about immunity to the president by justices that he
put in place or that were pro him. We saw
(09:22):
that those things were being put in place for times
like this so that eventually all power would be consolidated
to the executive branch. It's a terrifying reality for me.
I'm giving you guys the most calm version of myself.
You know, there's a nice where I don't sleep because
I know what people that look like us are going through.
(09:42):
I've been very, very outspoken about what life is like
for my family personally. Now Ramsey and I have a
video up having that conversation that has gone viral. A
lot of support, but also a lot of people who
are like you know, you guys should have done it
the right way. Those people assuming that me and my
family are not citizens is the funny part. It was
(10:03):
never about legality or documentation. It was that when you
look like us and you speak the language that my
children speak, you become a target for an administration that
does not care about legality or documents or paperwork. This
is a really hate forward administration. And as you would
notice if you're watching the news or reading the headlines,
(10:26):
they're not cracking down on criminal enterprises. They're showing up
at immigration hearings and showing up at people's workplaces and
hospitals and courthouses and terrorizing people, and knowing that the
protections that have always existed to stand in the way
of people like this doing very unlawful and unconstitutional things
(10:48):
to people, that those protections are just kind of melting away.
It's a really, really uncomfortable and scary time for our
country right now.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
I agree with you, Q, it's awful.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Well, so let's talk about the actual Supreme Court decision.
So the the outcome in short, from the most recent
Supreme Court session, I guess is what they would call it.
I'm not so familiar with the language that they use.
But the outcome, in short, states that federal judges lack
(11:23):
the authority to grant nationwide injunctions and so so correct
me if I'm wrong. But there are federal judges in
the states, right, But they're federal judges. So there'll be
federal judges in Colorado or Connecticut or whatever.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Correct, they're district there. They're disfigured out by regions and
things like that.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Okay, that makes sense. So these judges have been or
their court rooms, I guess, is where a lot of
lawsuits have been filed. Two stop the Trump administrations many
endeavors into fundamentally changing the culture of the United States
(12:07):
of America with his what are those things that you
signed on the first day of office? What are they called?
Or I'm the new eut vos executive voters? Right, So
people would file lawsuits in these lower courts in Colorado
and in Connecticut those places, and it would prevent Donald
(12:28):
Trump from implementing his Executive Voters because they would halt
his proceedings while it was tied up in the court. Right.
That's my understanding so far. And the Supreme Court says
that those federal judges now lack the authority to grant
(12:48):
nationwide injunctions, meaning that that is no longer a viable
I guess course of action for guming up the Trump
administration for folks that feel like this is a hostile government. So,
first question is do I have that right? And second
question is how scary is that? Is there any other
(13:11):
recourse beyond that? Is there any legal mechanism that still
exists to push back against that?
Speaker 3 (13:17):
Well, the way that the court systems are designed is
that states still have their sovereign immunity, right or they're
a state has their ability to make laws, and then
the federal judges in the federal system is over the
whole country, and then it trickles into the states. Right. Okay,
So now with the recent Supreme Court ruling, it's saying
(13:42):
that these federal judges can't make decisions that would affect
the nation as a whole. Right, as far as the injunctions,
an injunction is just a fancy word for stopping something,
for forcing the Trump administration not to do certain things.
Speaker 4 (13:57):
Right.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
So Donald Trump is really really happy about this ruling
because it gives him a lot more power. He doesn't
have judges now checking him on the lower levels, right,
because he's got the Supreme Court pretty much in his
pocket because there's so many conservatives that he appointed, as
Q said earlier. But in the federal judge bench, there's
(14:20):
you know, a lot more diversity. There's a harder path
for him to just take over. So with this ruling,
it makes it impossible for the I won't say impossible,
nothing's ever impossible, but it makes it harder for these
federal judges to make decisions that would affect the country
as a whole. So it's yet to be seen exactly
(14:43):
how this is going to play out. It's still a
little murky. I think that these rulings come down and
even as a lawyer, I read some of these articles
because I haven't seen the actual court decision in full yet,
and I say, where they coming up with this stuff?
And I feel like the justices are so hell bent
(15:06):
on getting their agenda across that they kind of, in
my opinion, just go along with whatever Trump is kind
of pushing or whatever they think is leaning towards their
political viewpoint, instead of actually looking at the constitution, looking
at what is best for the country and what is
(15:26):
actually legal and correct. They're just popping off in a way,
and it's amazing that people in such a high office
would even take the Constitution so lightly and just bend
at the whim of what I think is kind of
a dictatorship in the making.
Speaker 4 (15:47):
So did that answer your question?
Speaker 1 (15:50):
I think so. I was looking for a modicum of
hope there.
Speaker 4 (15:53):
But not something.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
I guess a little bit of hope is that, you know,
it's yet to be exactly what will happen, and the
Supreme Court does hold a lot of power, so for
them to say, you know, it's kind of like slapping
down the power of the other federal judges in the system,
because you know, it's a tiered system. Of course, the
Supreme Court is the highest, and then the federal system
(16:17):
is right under that, and then the state system is
under that. So it's not necessarily looking great for us
to come out as not conservative, right wing people with
things that are making sense or going to help, like
(16:38):
what Q was talking about his family and their situation
and living in this country. It's kind of going to
start moving towards Trump getting to do what he wants
to do. But I have faith in the fact that
there are still good people who hopefully will stand up
if it gets to that point. Every so often we
(17:01):
do see a Republican leader come forward and say, hey,
that's not right. Let's just hope and pray that that
happens here. I guess sure, sure, okay, that's not nothing too.
I know you had a few questions. Well, I don't
have a few questions. Actually, my problem is I think
we're all kind of looking for hope, and I feel
(17:24):
dishonest and trying to give that to people.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
It doesn't feel very hopeful.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
I don't. I don't.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
I think we've always had this resiliency collectively, you know,
even the nature of our relationship with you know, our
favorite lawyer in the world who helped us establish a
nonprofit and helped us, helped us contribute defeating two and
a half million people with hashtag lunchbag with living through
giving shout out to aj I love that, you know,
(17:53):
in eighty cities around the world, all at the same time.
We all got out of bed on Someday mornings. Some
of us miss church. A lot of people missed America's
real religion, which is football. And we got food together
and water and toiletries and things for people who are
less fortunate. And we did that as a collective around
the world, you know, even having involvement from the United Nations.
(18:17):
So the nature of our relationship has always been trying
to find that light and share it with people, people
who might have lost hope or who might be living
in conditions that seem like there's no repair or like
there's no coming back, or like things won't get better.
We've kind of perpetually been those people to remind people, hey,
everything's going to be okay, and not thinking about trying
(18:39):
to change the world holistically all at once, but changing
the world for individual people one at a time. We
were committed to that and we have been for a
long time. So we've always been able to, without even hesitating,
remind people that, hey, where we're at right now is
not where we'll always be, and things can and will
get better. Except I don't feel that way, so I
(19:00):
can't pretend to. It's really hard to talk about these
things because on election Day, as soon as it was
very very clear to me, and it was very early
in the evening when I realized we're not going to
win this thing. And I still have my opinions on
how or why that's the case, because not winning. When
we were there, we were outside, we were at the rallies,
(19:21):
we were all around the country, and we saw the excitement,
We saw the momentum. I still don't think things were
above board with that, but that's another show in another conversation.
The reason why I was so sad as I watched
what I knew was going to be the result play
out is because I foresaw all these things that are happening.
Like It's not like we weren't sure they were going
to happen. Every negative, hateful promise that was made as
(19:44):
being upheld. And he started from day one, as Ramses
would say, with muscle velocity, executive order after executive order
and not even pretending because right now on this big
beautiful bill, they're trying to hide bad things in the bill,
but pretending that they're to the benefit of someone. Week
of executive orders, they didn't even hide anything and anything good.
(20:04):
They didn't pretend they were doing anything for anyone. Every
order was taking something away from someone, some protection, some right,
some social benefits, some piece of healthcare administration, some access
to education, some access to capital funding. Like all they've
done is strip things away. And what we've noticed is
there are no roadblocks, there's no emergency break, there are
(20:26):
no systems in place to protect us, no one's coming
to help us. It sounds like doom and gloom until
you realize its reality, like what we're seeing happen on video,
on TV, on social media every day to people who
don't have anybody that can stand up for them, who
can't stop what's happening, And you're there essentially empowering regular
people to show up and pretend to be there on
(20:49):
behalf of the government and just seeing, essentially how long
will people let us do what we want? You know,
the only positive possibility I see is mass uprising by
people who are just tired of being bullied around and
cap about taking away. But short of that, like what
do I can't even pretend to have any hope. And
(21:12):
I'm listening to my sister over there, who is well
versed in law, who has helped us in so many
different ways, not just you know, her areas of expertise,
but she's helped us partner with people to learn more
about things that she's not an expert on because she
knows who to put us in the same room with her.
Who want a text thread or an email chain. So
she's always been that legal voice for us, and I
know that the work that she does right now is
(21:33):
incredibly frustrating because the entire career that she's built has
been on the basis of protecting these documents that they're
shredding up and throwing in the trash. So it's very
difficult for me to have that glimmer of hope or
to even ask questions because I'm at this point now
it's like, for so long as what can we do?
And I'm like, day by day, day by day realizing
(21:56):
nothing that the worst things don't have is what it
feels like.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
But maybe the glimmer of hope could be always keep
your cell phone record. They have the new meta glasses
that are sunglasses and you can with the click of
a button, you can start recording, record people doing these things,
record people doing horrific, racist things, and hope that you
can get a hold of someone who can hold their
(22:24):
feet to the fire. Everything's not stripped away. I tell
everyone use the technology that we have to call out people,
because even if it's the court of public opinion, yeah
that counts.
Speaker 4 (22:40):
That counts.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Like if we can't win against a company for being
racist or something we can still boycott, right We've shown
that we have the power to boycott certain businesses. Look
at Target, They're taking massive hits to their profits. And
so you always have to have your technology in your
(23:03):
hand or accessible so that if something awful starts happening,
you hit that record button, sure, and then you can
share it on your social media.
Speaker 4 (23:11):
You can make things go viral.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Like Q said, he had a video that went viral
that is still available to every single person. And most
people do have access to a cell phone with a camera.
So I know it's bleak, but I think that is
the biggest tool that we have right now.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
And while we're here, just I'm going to share a
piece of advice that you shared with me with our listeners,
you know, for folks that do end up you know,
because you know, I think that a lot of our
work started out just being very anti We were anti
the way policing was done. I don't want to say
we're anti police. I don't think we're ever anti police,
(23:50):
but not a big fans of the way policing was done.
And you know a piece of advice that once upon
a time you shared with me that recently I posted
on my social media and I saw you in the commons,
was that if you end up in trouble with the police,
you don't have to talk to him, and it's probably
smarter that you don't. So another thing I think is
(24:11):
worth keeping in mind is, you know, we haven't lost
all of our individual agency for better or worse. We
are in an economic system of capitalism, and capitalism requires,
you know, participation, and we can always shape the government
(24:37):
and the society by using the levers of capitalism even
if we're not in control of the levers of government.
One of another thing rather that I've said, you know,
I think I might have said this on social media.
I'm not sure you can correct me if I'm wrong,
but you know, when the government is unjust be ungovernable,
and I think that that speaks volumes to you know,
the amount of power that we still have. For me,
(25:00):
I have to remind myself in this time that this
system of government that we have come to espouse in
this country one of you know, checks and balances in
terms of the branches of government, one of due process
and individual liberties and freedoms. This was a system of
government that came about on the backs of other forms
(25:23):
of government, you know, and we based this system of
government on societies that rose and fell. And you know,
when this country was being born, I guess I'll say
the founding fathers looked back into history and said, okay,
this worked in ancient Rome, this worked in Egypt, this
didn't work in Mesopotamia, this worked in England, this didn't
(25:48):
work in Scotland and so forth, and they put together
a modern framework that they thought could survive. So that
reminds me that societies rise and fall, that you know,
the framework that was put in place in this country
was meant to avoid some of the stumbling blocks of
(26:09):
older society, societies we know from antiquity, and you know,
those that would dismantle that or subvert that are genuinely
a threat to, you know, the long term interest of
this country. In my that that's true in my belief.
And to excuse one or part of the Constitution, even
(26:31):
with the Supreme Court is supporting you, to excuse one
part of the Constitution for a temporary fix, when it's
a societal framework, it feels like, you know, a maneuver
that will cost us more on the long term that
it gains us. In the short term for people that
really do feel liked, process should be skipped in order
to expedite the deportation of immigrants, and so I think
(26:58):
we have a duty to resist this government.
Broadcasting from the Hip Hop Weekly Studios. I'd like to
welcome you to another episode of Civic Cipher, where our
mission is to foster allyship, empathy and understanding. I am
your host, Ramsey Ja.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
He is rams' Jah, I am q Ward. You are
tuned into Civic Cipher.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Yes you are, and we have a very special show
in store for you today. We are joined by the one,
the only Amy Owen aka Pineapple Lawyer. And for those
that don't know, Amy Owen is a civil rights attorney
who has worked major civil rights cases alongside Benjamin Crump,
and she's known for working alongside professional athletes and celebrities
(00:36):
and other high profile individuals. For those that are unfamiliar,
you can find her online as Pineapple Lawyer and she's
in the studio with us today. So welcome back to
the show.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Thank you so much, Ramseys, thanks for having me. Civic
Cipher is one of my favorites of course.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Okay, for those that don't know, she has worked major
civil rights cases alongside Ben Crump, who's also a friend
of the show, and I've been texting him, so he's
going to come on.
Speaker 4 (01:01):
Here's a busy guy's busy busy guy.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Especially now. But Amy's also known for working alongside professional athlete,
celebrities and other high profile individuals, and you can find
her online at Pineapple Lawyer. And we are going to
be having a conversation about some recent developments with the
Trump administration and some powers that are bestowed upon him
by the Supreme Court and the Supreme Courts, I guess,
(01:27):
limiting of powers elsewhere in the judicial branch, and the
implications of all that. So that's that, and also for
the latter part of the show, we are going to
be discussing what is being marketed as the Big Beautiful Bill.
A lot of folks disagree with that marketing jargon and
Alligator Alcatraz. So we have all of that and so
(01:51):
much more to stick around for, so we hope that
you do. Right now it is time for some ebony excellence.
And today's Ebony excellence come from BET Magazine or BT
dot com, I should say will o'newell becomes the first
black woman crown missed Wisconsin. Along with their talents, Newell
created a community initiative entitled Expression Without Exclusion, aimed at
(02:15):
making the arts more inclusive for the community. This June,
Wisconsin held the annual Miss Wisconsin competition, in will o'newell
became the first black woman to be crown. Will o'newell,
a twenty two year old from Racine, dotting a crown
of natural coils and a stunning green gown, was honored
with the title Miss Wisconsin twenty twenty five contestant in
(02:36):
competition since twenty seventeen when she was a teen, The
twenty two year old beauty went up against twenty nine
contestants from around Wisconsin. As reported by WMTV fifteen News,
Newell received a thirteen thousand dollars endowment in scholarships. Sorry
Newell received thirteen thousand dollars in scholarships along with other
(02:58):
awards as a result of successfully completing in five categories
evening Gown, Talent, Private Interview, Health and Wellness, and on
stage conversation and community Grace name the top scoring vocalist
for the talent section. Noel won the Ryan Guy Memorial
(03:18):
Music Scholarship by singing and I'm telling You from the
Dreamgirls musical, according to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, and you know,
we just wanted to shout her out because you know,
anytime we can get a win, we will take it.
And this one felt a little special. I know you
can't see her photo, but suffice it to say she
(03:39):
is all natural and you know, coming from me personally,
a person that wears my hair the way that it grows.
I always love to see someone kind of walking in
their truth, being their valid, most authentic self, and being
accepted for exactly who she is. So so yeah, that
feel positive and we'll take positive. We can get it
(04:00):
around here. Choose the one that sent this over anything
to add here to.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
It's good to have something good to talk about because
it's real easy right now to get bogged down on
very stressful discouraging and just o't write negative story. So
I'm glad that we even have a feature on something
that's good.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Yeah. Absolutely, Okay, Amy Owen, We've had many conversations and
we appreciate you taking the time to come back and
talk to us again. Usually for folks that are just
kind of coming to the table, you know, when it
comes time to kind of make heads or tails of
the judicial system or criminal proceedings or lawsuits or whatever.
(04:41):
Amy's the person that we go we talked to.
Speaker 4 (04:44):
So that is my world. Yes, so very convoluent's changing.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
Let's do this. Introduce yourself. I know I give a
brief introduction, but introduce yourself to our listeners. Make sure
everybody knows who you are, and remind them where to
find you, because I know that your social media is
super popping now on the Internet, as you would say.
But also let's let the folks know who they're going
to be hearing from today.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
Sure.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
So my real name is Amy Owen, but my nickname
is Pineapple Lawyer. I'm known in my community as Pineapple
Lawyer because it's easy to remember. I handle civil rights
and personal injury for anyone, really, but I do specialize
in celebrities, athletes, people who are a little bit more
high profile oftentimes hire me because I have some ins
(05:32):
and outs with that world based on my past, and
I love helping people in general. So people can find
me on Pineapple Lawyer, on Instagram, TikTok, all of those platforms,
it's Pineapple Lawyer.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
My actual website is.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Www dot amyowenlaw dot com, but I think if you
put in Pineapple Lawyer it populates that as well. But yeah,
I just love coming on here. I love talking to
you and Q about relevant issues. I love being your
legal go to. I'll get a text message from you
and I'm always like, it's going to be something good
from Ramseys and Q and Civic Cipher and all the
(06:12):
different platforms that you have. So thank you so much
for having me on. I'm so proud of the work
that you guys are doing. It's so necessarily thank you,
especially right now, it's like really really needed.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
So yeah, yeah, Well, speaking of which, I'll kick us
off Q. SO. Over the weekend, a lot of headlines
about the latest developments with respect to the Supreme Court's decisions,
and first off it talk to us a little bit
about that and what you make of it or what
(06:46):
you've made of it so far.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
Sure. So, in law school, one of my favorite subjects
was constitutional law. That's where you learn about the different
branches of government, the presidential branch, the Congress, and judicial
branch of course, the Supreme Court. And what's really interesting
is the interplay between those three branches of government. So
(07:10):
it's very important to know that the Supreme Court is
probably the most powerful aspect of the government because they're
the ones who make sure that the Constitution is read, interpreted,
and followed by the courts of law by the States
or by the country in general as a whole.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Right.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
So this.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Decision coming down that kind of takes away some of
the power of the Supreme Court is very frightening, and
it's frightening especially to I think people who are involved
in the legal profession, like myself, because you know, we
want the consistency of having checks and balances in place
for the different branches of government, and I think this
(07:57):
is eroding that, and it's scary, Like, we don't want
to to turn into a dictatorship. We don't want one
branch of the government to be so omnipotent that it
can squash the jobs of the other parts of the government,
and I feel like this is inching towards that, and
it's very scary.
Speaker 4 (08:17):
Cue your thoughts.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
You know a lot of people, when we kind of
saw what was coming and started to try to ring
the alarm bills, always assumed that checks and balances would
save us, Like, yeah, sure, the dude is, you know,
a bully, and you know there's all these red flags
about him and all the things that he's promising that
he's going to do to harm people. But there's checks
(08:42):
and balances in this country, and one person can't just
decide to do whatever they want to do, right. There's guardrails,
there's these systems in place, these age o systems that
have always been in place. And what you and I
recognize and try to explain to people is this is
not politics as usual. And as we see this guy
(09:02):
rigging everything and really setting things up so that he
controls every lever of government, you kind of saw these
things coming and even before he was re elected, you know,
conversations about immunity to the president by justices that he
put in place or that were pro him. We saw
(09:22):
that those things were being put in place for times
like this so that eventually all power would be consolidated
to the executive branch. It's a terrifying reality for me.
I'm giving you guys the most calm version of myself.
You know, there's a nice where I don't sleep because
I know what people that look like us are going through.
(09:42):
I've been very, very outspoken about what life is like
for my family personally. Now Ramsey and I have a
video up having that conversation that has gone viral. A
lot of support, but also a lot of people who
are like you know, you guys should have done it
the right way. Those people assuming that me and my
family are not citizens is the funny part. It was
(10:03):
never about legality or documentation. It was that when you
look like us and you speak the language that my
children speak, you become a target for an administration that
does not care about legality or documents or paperwork. This
is a really hate forward administration. And as you would
notice if you're watching the news or reading the headlines,
(10:26):
they're not cracking down on criminal enterprises. They're showing up
at immigration hearings and showing up at people's workplaces and
hospitals and courthouses and terrorizing people, and knowing that the
protections that have always existed to stand in the way
of people like this doing very unlawful and unconstitutional things
(10:48):
to people, that those protections are just kind of melting away.
It's a really, really uncomfortable and scary time for our
country right now.
Speaker 4 (10:57):
I agree with you, Q, it's awful.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Well, so let's talk about the actual Supreme Court decision.
So the the outcome in short, from the most recent
Supreme Court session, I guess is what they would call it.
I'm not so familiar with the language that they use.
But the outcome, in short, states that federal judges lack
(11:23):
the authority to grant nationwide injunctions and so so correct
me if I'm wrong. But there are federal judges in
the states, right, But they're federal judges. So there'll be
federal judges in Colorado or Connecticut or whatever.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Correct, they're district there. They're disfigured out by regions and
things like that.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
Okay, that makes sense. So these judges have been or
their court rooms, I guess, is where a lot of
lawsuits have been filed. Two stop the Trump administrations many
endeavors into fundamentally changing the culture of the United States
(12:07):
of America with his what are those things that you
signed on the first day of office? What are they called?
Or I'm the new eut vos executive voters? Right, So
people would file lawsuits in these lower courts in Colorado
and in Connecticut those places, and it would prevent Donald
(12:28):
Trump from implementing his Executive Voters because they would halt
his proceedings while it was tied up in the court. Right.
That's my understanding so far. And the Supreme Court says
that those federal judges now lack the authority to grant
(12:48):
nationwide injunctions, meaning that that is no longer a viable
I guess course of action for guming up the Trump
administration for folks that feel like this is a hostile government. So,
first question is do I have that right? And second
question is how scary is that? Is there any other
(13:11):
recourse beyond that? Is there any legal mechanism that still
exists to push back against that?
Speaker 3 (13:17):
Well, the way that the court systems are designed is
that states still have their sovereign immunity, right or they're
a state has their ability to make laws, and then
the federal judges in the federal system is over the
whole country, and then it trickles into the states. Right. Okay,
So now with the recent Supreme Court ruling, it's saying
(13:42):
that these federal judges can't make decisions that would affect
the nation as a whole. Right, as far as the injunctions,
an injunction is just a fancy word for stopping something,
for forcing the Trump administration not to do certain things.
Speaker 4 (13:57):
Right.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
So Donald Trump is really really happy about this ruling
because it gives him a lot more power. He doesn't
have judges now checking him on the lower levels, right,
because he's got the Supreme Court pretty much in his
pocket because there's so many conservatives that he appointed, as
Q said earlier. But in the federal judge bench, there's
(14:20):
you know, a lot more diversity. There's a harder path
for him to just take over. So with this ruling,
it makes it impossible for the I won't say impossible,
nothing's ever impossible, but it makes it harder for these
federal judges to make decisions that would affect the country
as a whole. So it's yet to be seen exactly
(14:43):
how this is going to play out. It's still a
little murky. I think that these rulings come down and
even as a lawyer, I read some of these articles
because I haven't seen the actual court decision in full yet,
and I say, where they coming up with this stuff?
And I feel like the justices are so hell bent
(15:06):
on getting their agenda across that they kind of, in
my opinion, just go along with whatever Trump is kind
of pushing or whatever they think is leaning towards their
political viewpoint, instead of actually looking at the constitution, looking
at what is best for the country and what is
(15:26):
actually legal and correct. They're just popping off in a way,
and it's amazing that people in such a high office
would even take the Constitution so lightly and just bend
at the whim of what I think is kind of
a dictatorship in the making.
Speaker 4 (15:47):
So did that answer your question?
Speaker 1 (15:50):
I think so. I was looking for a modicum of
hope there.
Speaker 4 (15:53):
But not something.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
I guess a little bit of hope is that, you know,
it's yet to be exactly what will happen, and the
Supreme Court does hold a lot of power, so for
them to say, you know, it's kind of like slapping
down the power of the other federal judges in the system,
because you know, it's a tiered system. Of course, the
Supreme Court is the highest, and then the federal system
(16:17):
is right under that, and then the state system is
under that. So it's not necessarily looking great for us
to come out as not conservative, right wing people with
things that are making sense or going to help, like
(16:38):
what Q was talking about his family and their situation
and living in this country. It's kind of going to
start moving towards Trump getting to do what he wants
to do. But I have faith in the fact that
there are still good people who hopefully will stand up
if it gets to that point. Every so often we
(17:01):
do see a Republican leader come forward and say, hey,
that's not right. Let's just hope and pray that that
happens here. I guess sure, sure, okay, that's not nothing too.
I know you had a few questions. Well, I don't
have a few questions. Actually, my problem is I think
we're all kind of looking for hope, and I feel
(17:24):
dishonest and trying to give that to people.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
It doesn't feel very hopeful.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
I don't. I don't.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
I think we've always had this resiliency collectively, you know,
even the nature of our relationship with you know, our
favorite lawyer in the world who helped us establish a
nonprofit and helped us, helped us contribute defeating two and
a half million people with hashtag lunchbag with living through
giving shout out to aj I love that, you know,
(17:53):
in eighty cities around the world, all at the same time.
We all got out of bed on Someday mornings. Some
of us miss church. A lot of people missed America's
real religion, which is football. And we got food together
and water and toiletries and things for people who are
less fortunate. And we did that as a collective around
the world, you know, even having involvement from the United Nations.
(18:17):
So the nature of our relationship has always been trying
to find that light and share it with people, people
who might have lost hope or who might be living
in conditions that seem like there's no repair or like
there's no coming back, or like things won't get better.
We've kind of perpetually been those people to remind people, hey,
everything's going to be okay, and not thinking about trying
(18:39):
to change the world holistically all at once, but changing
the world for individual people one at a time. We
were committed to that and we have been for a
long time. So we've always been able to, without even hesitating,
remind people that, hey, where we're at right now is
not where we'll always be, and things can and will
get better. Except I don't feel that way, so I
(19:00):
can't pretend to. It's really hard to talk about these
things because on election Day, as soon as it was
very very clear to me, and it was very early
in the evening when I realized we're not going to
win this thing. And I still have my opinions on
how or why that's the case, because not winning. When
we were there, we were outside, we were at the rallies,
(19:21):
we were all around the country, and we saw the excitement,
We saw the momentum. I still don't think things were
above board with that, but that's another show in another conversation.
The reason why I was so sad as I watched
what I knew was going to be the result play
out is because I foresaw all these things that are happening.
Like It's not like we weren't sure they were going
to happen. Every negative, hateful promise that was made as
(19:44):
being upheld. And he started from day one, as Ramses
would say, with muscle velocity, executive order after executive order
and not even pretending because right now on this big
beautiful bill, they're trying to hide bad things in the bill,
but pretending that they're to the benefit of someone. Week
of executive orders, they didn't even hide anything and anything good.
(20:04):
They didn't pretend they were doing anything for anyone. Every
order was taking something away from someone, some protection, some right,
some social benefits, some piece of healthcare administration, some access
to education, some access to capital funding. Like all they've
done is strip things away. And what we've noticed is
there are no roadblocks, there's no emergency break, there are
(20:26):
no systems in place to protect us, no one's coming
to help us. It sounds like doom and gloom until
you realize its reality, like what we're seeing happen on video,
on TV, on social media every day to people who
don't have anybody that can stand up for them, who
can't stop what's happening, And you're there essentially empowering regular
people to show up and pretend to be there on
(20:49):
behalf of the government and just seeing, essentially how long
will people let us do what we want? You know,
the only positive possibility I see is mass uprising by
people who are just tired of being bullied around and
cap about taking away. But short of that, like what
do I can't even pretend to have any hope. And
(21:12):
I'm listening to my sister over there, who is well
versed in law, who has helped us in so many
different ways, not just you know, her areas of expertise,
but she's helped us partner with people to learn more
about things that she's not an expert on because she
knows who to put us in the same room with her.
Who want a text thread or an email chain. So
she's always been that legal voice for us, and I
know that the work that she does right now is
(21:33):
incredibly frustrating because the entire career that she's built has
been on the basis of protecting these documents that they're
shredding up and throwing in the trash. So it's very
difficult for me to have that glimmer of hope or
to even ask questions because I'm at this point now
it's like, for so long as what can we do?
And I'm like, day by day, day by day realizing
(21:56):
nothing that the worst things don't have is what it
feels like.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
But maybe the glimmer of hope could be always keep
your cell phone record. They have the new meta glasses
that are sunglasses and you can with the click of
a button, you can start recording, record people doing these things,
record people doing horrific, racist things, and hope that you
can get a hold of someone who can hold their
(22:24):
feet to the fire. Everything's not stripped away. I tell
everyone use the technology that we have to call out people,
because even if it's the court of public opinion, yeah
that counts.
Speaker 4 (22:40):
That counts.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Like if we can't win against a company for being
racist or something we can still boycott, right We've shown
that we have the power to boycott certain businesses. Look
at Target, They're taking massive hits to their profits. And
so you always have to have your technology in your
(23:03):
hand or accessible so that if something awful starts happening,
you hit that record button, sure, and then you can
share it on your social media.
Speaker 4 (23:11):
You can make things go viral.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Like Q said, he had a video that went viral
that is still available to every single person. And most
people do have access to a cell phone with a camera.
So I know it's bleak, but I think that is
the biggest tool that we have right now.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
And while we're here, just I'm going to share a
piece of advice that you shared with me with our listeners,
you know, for folks that do end up you know,
because you know, I think that a lot of our
work started out just being very anti We were anti
the way policing was done. I don't want to say
we're anti police. I don't think we're ever anti police,
(23:50):
but not a big fans of the way policing was done.
And you know a piece of advice that once upon
a time you shared with me that recently I posted
on my social media and I saw you in the commons,
was that if you end up in trouble with the police,
you don't have to talk to him, and it's probably
smarter that you don't. So another thing I think is
(24:11):
worth keeping in mind is, you know, we haven't lost
all of our individual agency for better or worse. We
are in an economic system of capitalism, and capitalism requires,
you know, participation, and we can always shape the government
(24:37):
and the society by using the levers of capitalism even
if we're not in control of the levers of government.
One of another thing rather that I've said, you know,
I think I might have said this on social media.
I'm not sure you can correct me if I'm wrong,
but you know, when the government is unjust be ungovernable,
and I think that that speaks volumes to you know,
the amount of power that we still have. For me,
(25:00):
I have to remind myself in this time that this
system of government that we have come to espouse in
this country one of you know, checks and balances in
terms of the branches of government, one of due process
and individual liberties and freedoms. This was a system of
government that came about on the backs of other forms
(25:23):
of government, you know, and we based this system of
government on societies that rose and fell. And you know,
when this country was being born, I guess I'll say
the founding fathers looked back into history and said, okay,
this worked in ancient Rome, this worked in Egypt, this
didn't work in Mesopotamia, this worked in England, this didn't
(25:48):
work in Scotland and so forth, and they put together
a modern framework that they thought could survive. So that
reminds me that societies rise and fall, that you know,
the framework that was put in place in this country
was meant to avoid some of the stumbling blocks of
(26:09):
older society, societies we know from antiquity, and you know,
those that would dismantle that or subvert that are genuinely
a threat to, you know, the long term interest of
this country. In my that that's true in my belief.
And to excuse one or part of the Constitution, even
(26:31):
with the Supreme Court is supporting you, to excuse one
part of the Constitution for a temporary fix, when it's
a societal framework, it feels like, you know, a maneuver
that will cost us more on the long term that
it gains us. In the short term for people that
really do feel liked, process should be skipped in order
to expedite the deportation of immigrants, and so I think
(26:58):
we have a duty to resist this government.
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