June 21, 2025 • 22 mins
Today’s guest is Wendy Amara—an activist, board member of Roots and Wings (a content creator group that uplifts the stories of immigrants) and the host of the Yes, Mujer--Build It! podcast. She can be found online @wendyamara.
In the second half of the show, we address the right-wing pushback on immigration protests and try to uncover why immigration is such a challenging issue for the country to reconcile with.
Support the show: https://www.patreon.com/civiccipher?utm_source=search
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Keep on riding with us as we continue to broadcast
the balance and defend the discourse from the Hip hop
Weekly Studios. Welcome back to Civic Cipher. I'm your host
ramses Ja. He is Rams's Jah. I am Qward.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
You are hopefully still or tuning back into Civic Cipher.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
And that is what we hope and we hope that
you stay tuned because we are joined by Wendy Amara,
who is an activist board member of Roots and Wings,
the content creator group that uplifts the stories of immigrants,
and she's the host of the Yes Muher Build It
podcast who can be found online at Wendy Amara. So
(00:36):
we are going to be kind of digging a little
bit more into the weeds and uncovering really the conservative
approach to immigration. We're going to get some talking points
out of the way and fleshed out, and we definitely
think it's going to help if you're having tough conversations
around the dinner table or at work. So stick around
(00:58):
for that and so much more. But right now it
is time to be Aba. Become a better ally Baba,
and today's Baba. We want you to check out MDEF
dot org. That's IMMDEF dot org that stands for Immigrant
Defender's Law Center MDEAF and Immigrant Defender's Law Center is
(01:18):
a next generation social justice law firm that defends immigrant
communities against injustices in the immigration system. M DEAF was
created in twenty fifteen from the vision of a small
group of immigration lawyers and.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Advocates who believe there was a better way to.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Protect the due process rights of immigrants facing deportation. At
its founding, MDEAF was solely focused on ensuring that every
immigrant before the immigration court had a lawyer by their side. However,
in the years that followed, they recognized the need to
not only help individual sorry individuals facing deportation, but also
work towards systemic change that reimagines a more just immigration system.
(01:56):
You are needed in this fight. Become an immigrant defender
every day asylum seekers and refugees face new challenges to
seeking safety. Follow their work to learn more on how
to help immigrants feel welcome with dignity, and you could
sign up for their newsletter, donate, or simply learn more
at mdef dot org. And we definitely wanted to shout
(02:19):
out these folks out because there are a lot of
people around the country who are not in California. Maybe
they're not connected to California, but they have an immigrant
story or they just have a beating heart and they
see the humanity in this moment. And we wanted to
make sure that we went through and vetted an organization
that you could donate to, even if you couldn't be
(02:39):
on the ground protesting or helping out in a physical way,
you could send money. And these folks have a full
five oh one C three again, check out more and
vet them yourselves. It's immdf dot org. That is Immigrant
Defender's Laws Center.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Okay, so.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
The conservative approach to immigration, Now, we talked a little
bit about this in the first half of the show,
and nothing is ever really cut and dry, but I
think that oversimplifying immigration has really allowed for them to
(03:26):
interject falsehoods into what is a normal immigrant story in
this country. Donald Trump famously says they're sending their worst,
their rapist, their murderers, that sort of stuff, right, And
by simplifying an immigrant and distilling a human being down
to simply a misdemeanor, they may have committed a paperwork
(03:51):
violation by naming it something more alarming than what it
actually is, which is again in many instances of the
clerical violation. In other instances, it's simply a misdemeanor by
calling those people criminals and then using that criminalization of
(04:12):
them to justify denying them due process and to you know,
kidnap them and sensationalize all of this stuff so that
you can peddle it to your base to say, hey, look,
I'm an effective leader. I'm getting all these criminals and
rapists out of the country and it's not going to
make any material changes to people's lives. I think you
mentioned the first part of the show, Wendy, that you
(04:33):
know people depend on immigrants. We all depend on immigrants.
Immigrants pay taxes, so there's a tax implication there. Immigrants
are a huge part of the workforce in many cities
around the country, not just LA and these people are
our people. They're fabric of our community and they didn't
(04:54):
just come here last week. These are people that have
been here decades, have children here, so forth. Right conservatives
often overlook that part, but we need to speak to
their talking points. So I will start with one that
comes up quite a bit, and Que's going to help
out of course, because Q and I went through this already.
But what would you say to a person that says, well,
(05:18):
you know what, they should have come here legally.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Yeah, we get that question quite a bit in our
comments section.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
I bet you do with.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Our posts with roods and wings. Yeah. Okay, Well, let's
break it down. What does it really take to become
legal and get legal paperwork right? The last time the
process was actually a process was during the Reagan administration.
Since then, there has been no clear pathway, no one
clear pathway, like here are the five steps you need
(05:47):
to take to apply for citizenship, to apply for asylum,
for example. So it is difficult. It is a difficult
process that takes years. I know somebody who's been going
through the process for ten years, ten years to get
their paperwork in order right. That keeps being pushed back
(06:09):
from the government. And then every four years we change
the administration, so then the laws changed, the policy has changed.
So what worked for you five years ago? Oh well
now we got a new policy, so that's changed. So
you might have already been in process with a certain
policy five years ago, and then that changed, and now
new policy, you got to start all over. This is
(06:29):
why it takes people ten fifteen to twenty years, sometimes
five years, six years.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Right.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Secondly, it's expensive. I don't know if you guys know
how much an immigration attorney costs to fill out paperwork. Yeah,
we're talking about in the thousands. I've heard people pay
as much as ten thousand dollars, five thousand dollars for
their immigration paperwork. And that's per person. Right, So if
you have a mom and a dad and it's seven
(06:55):
thousand dollars at the end of the day to get
them through immigration paperwork, then we're talking about fourteen thousand dollars.
What that's a lot of what these families make in
two three years, right combined. So it takes a long time.
Policies keep changing, there is not a clear pathway. Secondly,
it's expensive. A lot of families can't afford it in
(07:17):
the long run. Right. Apparently you can get citizenship and
a green card if you have a million plus dollars
and you just pay directly to Trump. Yeah, and you
get that. What's it called the Golden nugget.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
The Golden ticket thing.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Yeah, the Golden ticket thing, the Golden ticket thing.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Right, I like the Golden nugget, go with that.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
I like it. Yeah, whatever, it's called. So there is
a way to buy your citizenship if you're rich, right,
And apparently you can also get amnesty by the way,
if you know this, if you happen to be South
African and white. Yeah, so there is an amnesty program
for them because they're under attack in their country. Right,
(08:00):
this is what we've been told. But for the man
who's literally been working here for thirty years and has
been paying his taxes and everything forever, and maybe even
as trying to get his paperwork, maybe he's in process.
If he shows up tomorrow for his trial at immigration court,
he's going to get picked up by Ice. His case
(08:20):
is going to be dismissed, and he's going to get
picked up by ice and then sent back to wherever
he came. So even people who were trying to do
the right thing, who at this point have tried to
follow the path, this is why people don't do it legally.
There is no real way to do it legally, quote unquote.
It's challenging. And you know what, Mexico's right next door,
(08:44):
So you're going to have people that are going to
figure out a way to come in. In fact, we
used to have programs right that, but ASSETO program was
a program that existed for many years where Mexico and
the United States actually traded people to come over. So
whenever the United States has needed labor, Mexico has raised
their hand and said, okay, we'll send you some of
our laborers, and then people came over and worked. To
(09:06):
this day, there are sections of Tijuana where people just
cross the border into the US work during the day,
and they go back to tj And it's been peaceful
up until now, up until recent times. But listen, there
have been deportations happening through all of the administrations. So
there were deportations happening, you know when Biden was in office.
In fact, when Biden was in office, there were more
(09:28):
deportations at this point than what has happened now with Trump.
But the way in which it's being done is different.
It is being done in a terrorising way. I cannot
tell you the fear. I, as an American citizen, am
in fear because I think I'm going to get stopped
just because I look brown. I'm going to get stopped
(09:49):
and asked where was I born? And if I can't
come up with it immediately, then they start to question
you and this is random. And when we have footage
of people going to the swamp meet and just going
about their day, American citizens shopping at the local swap meet,
which out here in La r swap meets or where
you get some of the best food. I'm the best merchandise, right,
(10:10):
that's where you want to and there's ice all over
the swap meat and stopping random people who look illegal.
I don't know what you guys consider looking illegal, but
look illegal, and then actually go up to them and
ask them where were you born? Where were you born?
What hospital were you born in? What city were you
born in? One man got nervous because he was adopted,
and he was like, I don't know, but I'm American citizen,
but I don't know where you know, I don't actually
(10:31):
know what hospital I was born in. These are questions
just to throw them off, to get them to feel
an intimidation. That's what's happening, is an intimidation. So if
it was easy, everybody would do it. Trust me, everybody
wants to be an American citizen. Is not easy. It's
time consuming, the process is hard and keeps changing, and
it takes a lot of money and or an attorney.
(10:54):
That's why people don't do it the legal way.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Well, I think it's intentionally complicated, because what we've now
heard and learned that if you're rich and or white,
it's actually quite simple. It's just intentionally complicated for everyone else.
So they can check a box and decide that you
don't fit, so we're going to get rid of you.
It's a very very interesting thing to watch play out
in real time and let them determine who's legal or
(11:20):
criminal based on how they look. The first time I
heard that, I exclaimed, and people told me I was
being fearmongered too, and friends of mine gas lit me
because every fear I had for my family became real
on election day, because we knew this was happening. This
was not some shock or some surprise that they did,
(11:42):
you know, as some covert mission. The man campaigned on
this idea. We've heard people, strangely enough, say that due
process should be reserved for citizens, not criminal immigrants. What
would you say to people who adopt that position? Forgive
(12:04):
me for laughing, but it's to hide anger and frustration
that I do.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
So Yes, no, thank you for that Every human being
deserves due process. Every human being and is guaranteed it
and is guaranteed it. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
If you are standing in front of somebody and you're
witnessing what is happening to them, and this is actually
what's waking a lot of people up. Is when we
witness it and it's right in front of us, or
we're being shown video that we cannot turn away from
because there's ten people videoing the same thing, and then
you see it from ten different angles, you're starting to understand,
oh crap, this is real. This is what's happening to people.
(12:46):
People are being yanked, people are being killed, right, democratic
lawmakers are being killed. This is actually what's happening. Every
human being deserves due process. Every human being, every mother,
every father, all of us can feel it in our hearts.
And I think if more people were opening their eyes
(13:09):
to this is the truth of what is really happening.
Talk to someone who is an immigrant, talk to someone
who knows someone who is married to someone whose uncle
is an immigrant, whose father is an immigrant. Hear their stories.
Because the more we humanize this, the more people will
start to realize, oh crap, this is really happening. This
is happening in our streets. This is happening in my family,
(13:33):
this is happening in my neighborhood. And that's how we
start to open people's eyes and open people's hearts to
the reality. Yeah. Also, let me tell you, I've heard
of a lot of businesses, privileged space, businesses, businesses in
privileged spaces that are no longer, no longer supporting Trump supporters.
(13:54):
So if you walk in with a Maga hat, you're
being asked to leave.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Good mm hmmm.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
This is starting to happen across the board. So yeah,
for that, people are getting it and people are speaking up.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Yeah. I kind of did a deep dive into Nazi
Germany and the denazification of Germany in particular, and I
I really do feel like, at some point in the future,
because I now that I see how big it is
and how insidious it is and how kind of evil
(14:27):
it is and divisive, at some point this country is
going to have to have a deep, deep, deep purge
of trump Ism and Maga and so I and that
and a lot of people are going to have to
eat their words, and they got to come back down
black people streets and brown people streets. You know, a
(14:48):
lot of people that turn their noses up. So and
then even you know, another thing that exists on the
far right, and it's it's like well documented that it
tends to exist in the far right more than it
does on the left, on the right than it does
on the left, especially so on the far right is
(15:13):
sort of like conspiracy theory type of things, right, And
these are things that you know, people have to confront
in their workspaces, at home, around the dinner table with
their racist uncle or with their Trump supporting grammars or
whatever it is that they have to deal with, these
people with conspiracies in their heads. So what would you
(15:34):
say to people who say, you know, immigration is a
leftist conspiracy to get more votes, get more bodies in
the country, so these illegal immigrants can come into the
United States and vote.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
What do you say to people that that's their truth? Yeah,
I say, let's talk about history. California, the United States
has always been full of immigrants. Are in country that
is built on immigration, always and always has been. So
there is no like new policy of We're going to
bring in more immigrants so that we have more Democrats
(16:10):
and then we get more votes. Right, we can also
look at the fact that just because you get more immigrants,
doesn't mean you're going to necessarily get the vote, because
look at what happened with the Latino population. First of all,
the Latino population is very, very diverse. I don't know
if y' all know that. We're very diverse, right. Also,
South Americans are different. If you talk to Venezuelin or
a Colombian, they think slightly different. I'm from Guatemala. Most
(16:34):
people are like, oh, what part of Mexico is that in.
I'm like, it's another country. It's not in Mexico, it's
Central America. So a lot of people don't even know,
you know, what part of the world that's in. So
we're very diverse. There's lots of different opinions, there's lots
of different policies. Some of us come from countries that
have been taken over by dictators. Some of us come
from countries that experience civil war, like in Guatemala there
(16:55):
was a civil war, very much funded by the United States,
by the way, but that's another topic. So we have
differing beliefs. We're not all a monolith. There's different cultural backgrounds,
even different ways in which we speak Spanish. Some of
us hate the term Hispanic. Some of us love it.
Some of us use the term LATINX, some of us
hate it Latina. I mean, have so many different ways
(17:17):
right rasa, we don't even know what to call ourselves
as a unifying force. So because of this, the differentiation
in terms of how we see things, just because we're
going to be a country of immigrants doesn't mean we're
all going to vote in one particular way. This idea
that oh well, let's stop letting immigrants in because if
they all come in, then we're just going to become
(17:38):
this democratic blue country, I think is a bunch of bs.
People are coming from lots of different countries. We haven't
even talked about Asian population, which by the way, is
also being targeted by ICE. Vietnamese people, Cambodian people, parts
of Los Angeles that have large immigration from East Asia
(17:59):
are being target So ICE is showing up at nail salons.
ICE is showing up at hair salons like places like that.
So this is not just a Latino thing. This is
an immigrant challenge. But what I say to them is
we've always been a country of immigrants. I don't think
you're going to stop immigration all of a sudden, and
you're not going to stop immigration because you're going to
realize eventually as a country that there are jobs that
(18:21):
Americans simply are not willing to do, and we're going
to start to experience the change in the economy. And
although Trump I think wants to bankrupt Los Angeles and California,
we pay a hell of a lot of money into
the federal government. We are the fourth largest economy California,
fourth largest economy in the world, in the world, guys,
(18:44):
look up the statistic. It blew my mind. I was like,
what California. Yep, the United States is first, but we're
right there. We're not that far behind. For number four.
You do not want to bankrupt us, and this will
not bankrupt us. We will figure it out. We will
fight our way to the top, and we will remember.
We will, of course remember.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
I want to say this before you jump in Q.
I want to make sure that I say that. Another
thing that I think is important for people to remember
is that you know, people that come across the border,
because they make it seem like it's an invasion, like
there's the borders wide open and they're just letting all
these voters in or whatever. First off, it is not
an invasion. That's a word that is sensationalized. But these
people cannot vote. You know, you can't just come across
(19:26):
the border and vote in the United States election. That
doesn't work that way. You know, citizens vote, you know,
outside of that, you don't vote. And for people to
think that that's true again, you are kind of in
the conspiracy theory, sort of part of part of your timeline.
And you know, we're just here to remind you that
(19:48):
that's just not a real thing.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
SOQ go ahead.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
You know, prior to this most recent election, voter fraud
was a net zero right almost never ever, our election
tend to be very very secure, except this last one
where they rigged it. And the guy keeps saying on
camera and microphones that they rigged it over and over
again and nobody cares. But you know, we won't keep
saying he rigged it because you know, people might be listening,
(20:12):
and we don't want to give people the impression that
the election was rigged. You know that Donald Trump and
Elon Musk may have rigged the machines in the most
recent election. We don't want to give that impression to
people that they rigged the election, because you know, we
would never say such a thing on the radio. Right,
(20:35):
This has just been such an incredible experience and experiment
for all of us. And I know our time is
kind of windening down here. Any thoughts for people who
have kind of just lost hope and the things that
are supposed to protect us and the idea resilience that
we're supposed to have that there's a light at the
end of the tunnel, Like, if there was a wear
(20:56):
from here, what direction would you point us in?
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Yeah, we're from here. Community unity, Yeah, I like that. Yeah.
We protect ourselves, we protect each other, and we come
together more unified than ever. Community is the medicine. Community
is the antidote to what we're experiencing right now.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Well, I uh, I'm not going to disagree with you,
because one of the things that Q often tells me
whenever we end up in a new city supporting some
civil rights organization or you know, we're there to speak
or to do a live show or something like that,
is we get out of our studio where it's just
(21:40):
me and him, and we get around people who feel
the same way, so we know we're not alone. And
these people have great ideas and they help us with
our ideas and so forth, and that community really does matter,
and it fortifies us and it helps us remain strong.
And so those are absolutely wise words and words that
we intend to live by. So with that in mind,
(22:01):
we're going to leave it right here. Thank you very much,
Wendy for taking the time to hang out with us.
A real quick shout out your social media, as, your podcast,
your website, all that, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Thank you so much. You can find me on Instagram
at Wendyamara. My website is Wendyamara dot com, and you
can find the podcast everywhere that you listen to podcasts.
It's called Yes, Movehead, build it.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
And don't forget.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
You can find us on all social media at Civic
Cipher and be sure to hit civicipher dot com. That's
where you can submit any questions, any topics you want
us to cover. You can also make a donation. The
show grows with your support, and the show is growing
quite a bit, so keep supporting and we'll keep doing
our best. You can also follow us on all social
media at Civic Cipher on all platforms, be sure to
(22:45):
subscribe to our YouTube. You can find me on all
social media at ramses job I.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Am qword on all social media as well.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
And we don't keep it going.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
And until next week, y'all peace,
Keep on riding with us as we continue to broadcast
the balance and defend the discourse from the Hip hop
Weekly Studios. Welcome back to Civic Cipher. I'm your host
ramses Ja. He is Rams's Jah. I am Qward.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
You are hopefully still or tuning back into Civic Cipher.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
And that is what we hope and we hope that
you stay tuned because we are joined by Wendy Amara,
who is an activist board member of Roots and Wings,
the content creator group that uplifts the stories of immigrants,
and she's the host of the Yes Muher Build It
podcast who can be found online at Wendy Amara. So
(00:36):
we are going to be kind of digging a little
bit more into the weeds and uncovering really the conservative
approach to immigration. We're going to get some talking points
out of the way and fleshed out, and we definitely
think it's going to help if you're having tough conversations
around the dinner table or at work. So stick around
(00:58):
for that and so much more. But right now it
is time to be Aba. Become a better ally Baba,
and today's Baba. We want you to check out MDEF
dot org. That's IMMDEF dot org that stands for Immigrant
Defender's Law Center MDEAF and Immigrant Defender's Law Center is
(01:18):
a next generation social justice law firm that defends immigrant
communities against injustices in the immigration system. M DEAF was
created in twenty fifteen from the vision of a small
group of immigration lawyers and.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Advocates who believe there was a better way to.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Protect the due process rights of immigrants facing deportation. At
its founding, MDEAF was solely focused on ensuring that every
immigrant before the immigration court had a lawyer by their side. However,
in the years that followed, they recognized the need to
not only help individual sorry individuals facing deportation, but also
work towards systemic change that reimagines a more just immigration system.
(01:56):
You are needed in this fight. Become an immigrant defender
every day asylum seekers and refugees face new challenges to
seeking safety. Follow their work to learn more on how
to help immigrants feel welcome with dignity, and you could
sign up for their newsletter, donate, or simply learn more
at mdef dot org. And we definitely wanted to shout
(02:19):
out these folks out because there are a lot of
people around the country who are not in California. Maybe
they're not connected to California, but they have an immigrant
story or they just have a beating heart and they
see the humanity in this moment. And we wanted to
make sure that we went through and vetted an organization
that you could donate to, even if you couldn't be
(02:39):
on the ground protesting or helping out in a physical way,
you could send money. And these folks have a full
five oh one C three again, check out more and
vet them yourselves. It's immdf dot org. That is Immigrant
Defender's Laws Center.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Okay, so.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
The conservative approach to immigration, Now, we talked a little
bit about this in the first half of the show,
and nothing is ever really cut and dry, but I
think that oversimplifying immigration has really allowed for them to
(03:26):
interject falsehoods into what is a normal immigrant story in
this country. Donald Trump famously says they're sending their worst,
their rapist, their murderers, that sort of stuff, right, And
by simplifying an immigrant and distilling a human being down
to simply a misdemeanor, they may have committed a paperwork
(03:51):
violation by naming it something more alarming than what it
actually is, which is again in many instances of the
clerical violation. In other instances, it's simply a misdemeanor by
calling those people criminals and then using that criminalization of
(04:12):
them to justify denying them due process and to you know,
kidnap them and sensationalize all of this stuff so that
you can peddle it to your base to say, hey, look,
I'm an effective leader. I'm getting all these criminals and
rapists out of the country and it's not going to
make any material changes to people's lives. I think you
mentioned the first part of the show, Wendy, that you
(04:33):
know people depend on immigrants. We all depend on immigrants.
Immigrants pay taxes, so there's a tax implication there. Immigrants
are a huge part of the workforce in many cities
around the country, not just LA and these people are
our people. They're fabric of our community and they didn't
(04:54):
just come here last week. These are people that have
been here decades, have children here, so forth. Right conservatives
often overlook that part, but we need to speak to
their talking points. So I will start with one that
comes up quite a bit, and Que's going to help
out of course, because Q and I went through this already.
But what would you say to a person that says, well,
(05:18):
you know what, they should have come here legally.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Yeah, we get that question quite a bit in our
comments section.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
I bet you do with.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Our posts with roods and wings. Yeah. Okay, Well, let's
break it down. What does it really take to become
legal and get legal paperwork right? The last time the
process was actually a process was during the Reagan administration.
Since then, there has been no clear pathway, no one
clear pathway, like here are the five steps you need
(05:47):
to take to apply for citizenship, to apply for asylum,
for example. So it is difficult. It is a difficult
process that takes years. I know somebody who's been going
through the process for ten years, ten years to get
their paperwork in order right. That keeps being pushed back
(06:09):
from the government. And then every four years we change
the administration, so then the laws changed, the policy has changed.
So what worked for you five years ago? Oh well
now we got a new policy, so that's changed. So
you might have already been in process with a certain
policy five years ago, and then that changed, and now
new policy, you got to start all over. This is
(06:29):
why it takes people ten fifteen to twenty years, sometimes
five years, six years.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Right.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Secondly, it's expensive. I don't know if you guys know
how much an immigration attorney costs to fill out paperwork. Yeah,
we're talking about in the thousands. I've heard people pay
as much as ten thousand dollars, five thousand dollars for
their immigration paperwork. And that's per person. Right, So if
you have a mom and a dad and it's seven
(06:55):
thousand dollars at the end of the day to get
them through immigration paperwork, then we're talking about fourteen thousand dollars.
What that's a lot of what these families make in
two three years, right combined. So it takes a long time.
Policies keep changing, there is not a clear pathway. Secondly,
it's expensive. A lot of families can't afford it in
(07:17):
the long run. Right. Apparently you can get citizenship and
a green card if you have a million plus dollars
and you just pay directly to Trump. Yeah, and you
get that. What's it called the Golden nugget.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
The Golden ticket thing.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Yeah, the Golden ticket thing, the Golden ticket thing.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
Right, I like the Golden nugget, go with that.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
I like it. Yeah, whatever, it's called. So there is
a way to buy your citizenship if you're rich, right,
And apparently you can also get amnesty by the way,
if you know this, if you happen to be South
African and white. Yeah, so there is an amnesty program
for them because they're under attack in their country. Right,
(08:00):
this is what we've been told. But for the man
who's literally been working here for thirty years and has
been paying his taxes and everything forever, and maybe even
as trying to get his paperwork, maybe he's in process.
If he shows up tomorrow for his trial at immigration court,
he's going to get picked up by Ice. His case
(08:20):
is going to be dismissed, and he's going to get
picked up by ice and then sent back to wherever
he came. So even people who were trying to do
the right thing, who at this point have tried to
follow the path, this is why people don't do it legally.
There is no real way to do it legally, quote unquote.
It's challenging. And you know what, Mexico's right next door,
(08:44):
So you're going to have people that are going to
figure out a way to come in. In fact, we
used to have programs right that, but ASSETO program was
a program that existed for many years where Mexico and
the United States actually traded people to come over. So
whenever the United States has needed labor, Mexico has raised
their hand and said, okay, we'll send you some of
our laborers, and then people came over and worked. To
(09:06):
this day, there are sections of Tijuana where people just
cross the border into the US work during the day,
and they go back to tj And it's been peaceful
up until now, up until recent times. But listen, there
have been deportations happening through all of the administrations. So
there were deportations happening, you know when Biden was in office.
In fact, when Biden was in office, there were more
(09:28):
deportations at this point than what has happened now with Trump.
But the way in which it's being done is different.
It is being done in a terrorising way. I cannot
tell you the fear. I, as an American citizen, am
in fear because I think I'm going to get stopped
just because I look brown. I'm going to get stopped
(09:49):
and asked where was I born? And if I can't
come up with it immediately, then they start to question
you and this is random. And when we have footage
of people going to the swamp meet and just going
about their day, American citizens shopping at the local swap meet,
which out here in La r swap meets or where
you get some of the best food. I'm the best merchandise, right,
(10:10):
that's where you want to and there's ice all over
the swap meat and stopping random people who look illegal.
I don't know what you guys consider looking illegal, but
look illegal, and then actually go up to them and
ask them where were you born? Where were you born?
What hospital were you born in? What city were you
born in? One man got nervous because he was adopted,
and he was like, I don't know, but I'm American citizen,
but I don't know where you know, I don't actually
(10:31):
know what hospital I was born in. These are questions
just to throw them off, to get them to feel
an intimidation. That's what's happening, is an intimidation. So if
it was easy, everybody would do it. Trust me, everybody
wants to be an American citizen. Is not easy. It's
time consuming, the process is hard and keeps changing, and
it takes a lot of money and or an attorney.
(10:54):
That's why people don't do it the legal way.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Well, I think it's intentionally complicated, because what we've now
heard and learned that if you're rich and or white,
it's actually quite simple. It's just intentionally complicated for everyone else.
So they can check a box and decide that you
don't fit, so we're going to get rid of you.
It's a very very interesting thing to watch play out
in real time and let them determine who's legal or
(11:20):
criminal based on how they look. The first time I
heard that, I exclaimed, and people told me I was
being fearmongered too, and friends of mine gas lit me
because every fear I had for my family became real
on election day, because we knew this was happening. This
was not some shock or some surprise that they did,
(11:42):
you know, as some covert mission. The man campaigned on
this idea. We've heard people, strangely enough, say that due
process should be reserved for citizens, not criminal immigrants. What
would you say to people who adopt that position? Forgive
(12:04):
me for laughing, but it's to hide anger and frustration
that I do.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
So Yes, no, thank you for that Every human being
deserves due process. Every human being and is guaranteed it
and is guaranteed it. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (12:24):
If you are standing in front of somebody and you're
witnessing what is happening to them, and this is actually
what's waking a lot of people up. Is when we
witness it and it's right in front of us, or
we're being shown video that we cannot turn away from
because there's ten people videoing the same thing, and then
you see it from ten different angles, you're starting to understand,
oh crap, this is real. This is what's happening to people.
(12:46):
People are being yanked, people are being killed, right, democratic
lawmakers are being killed. This is actually what's happening. Every
human being deserves due process. Every human being, every mother,
every father, all of us can feel it in our hearts.
And I think if more people were opening their eyes
(13:09):
to this is the truth of what is really happening.
Talk to someone who is an immigrant, talk to someone
who knows someone who is married to someone whose uncle
is an immigrant, whose father is an immigrant. Hear their stories.
Because the more we humanize this, the more people will
start to realize, oh crap, this is really happening. This
is happening in our streets. This is happening in my family,
(13:33):
this is happening in my neighborhood. And that's how we
start to open people's eyes and open people's hearts to
the reality. Yeah. Also, let me tell you, I've heard
of a lot of businesses, privileged space, businesses, businesses in
privileged spaces that are no longer, no longer supporting Trump supporters.
(13:54):
So if you walk in with a Maga hat, you're
being asked to leave.
Speaker 1 (13:59):
Good mm hmmm.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
This is starting to happen across the board. So yeah,
for that, people are getting it and people are speaking up.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Yeah. I kind of did a deep dive into Nazi
Germany and the denazification of Germany in particular, and I
I really do feel like, at some point in the future,
because I now that I see how big it is
and how insidious it is and how kind of evil
(14:27):
it is and divisive, at some point this country is
going to have to have a deep, deep, deep purge
of trump Ism and Maga and so I and that
and a lot of people are going to have to
eat their words, and they got to come back down
black people streets and brown people streets. You know, a
(14:48):
lot of people that turn their noses up. So and
then even you know, another thing that exists on the
far right, and it's it's like well documented that it
tends to exist in the far right more than it
does on the left, on the right than it does
on the left, especially so on the far right is
(15:13):
sort of like conspiracy theory type of things, right, And
these are things that you know, people have to confront
in their workspaces, at home, around the dinner table with
their racist uncle or with their Trump supporting grammars or
whatever it is that they have to deal with, these
people with conspiracies in their heads. So what would you
(15:34):
say to people who say, you know, immigration is a
leftist conspiracy to get more votes, get more bodies in
the country, so these illegal immigrants can come into the
United States and vote.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
What do you say to people that that's their truth? Yeah,
I say, let's talk about history. California, the United States
has always been full of immigrants. Are in country that
is built on immigration, always and always has been. So
there is no like new policy of We're going to
bring in more immigrants so that we have more Democrats
(16:10):
and then we get more votes. Right, we can also
look at the fact that just because you get more immigrants,
doesn't mean you're going to necessarily get the vote, because
look at what happened with the Latino population. First of all,
the Latino population is very, very diverse. I don't know
if y' all know that. We're very diverse, right. Also,
South Americans are different. If you talk to Venezuelin or
a Colombian, they think slightly different. I'm from Guatemala. Most
(16:34):
people are like, oh, what part of Mexico is that in.
I'm like, it's another country. It's not in Mexico, it's
Central America. So a lot of people don't even know,
you know, what part of the world that's in. So
we're very diverse. There's lots of different opinions, there's lots
of different policies. Some of us come from countries that
have been taken over by dictators. Some of us come
from countries that experience civil war, like in Guatemala there
(16:55):
was a civil war, very much funded by the United States,
by the way, but that's another topic. So we have
differing beliefs. We're not all a monolith. There's different cultural backgrounds,
even different ways in which we speak Spanish. Some of
us hate the term Hispanic. Some of us love it.
Some of us use the term LATINX, some of us
hate it Latina. I mean, have so many different ways
(17:17):
right rasa, we don't even know what to call ourselves
as a unifying force. So because of this, the differentiation
in terms of how we see things, just because we're
going to be a country of immigrants doesn't mean we're
all going to vote in one particular way. This idea
that oh well, let's stop letting immigrants in because if
they all come in, then we're just going to become
(17:38):
this democratic blue country, I think is a bunch of bs.
People are coming from lots of different countries. We haven't
even talked about Asian population, which by the way, is
also being targeted by ICE. Vietnamese people, Cambodian people, parts
of Los Angeles that have large immigration from East Asia
(17:59):
are being target So ICE is showing up at nail salons.
ICE is showing up at hair salons like places like that.
So this is not just a Latino thing. This is
an immigrant challenge. But what I say to them is
we've always been a country of immigrants. I don't think
you're going to stop immigration all of a sudden, and
you're not going to stop immigration because you're going to
realize eventually as a country that there are jobs that
(18:21):
Americans simply are not willing to do, and we're going
to start to experience the change in the economy. And
although Trump I think wants to bankrupt Los Angeles and California,
we pay a hell of a lot of money into
the federal government. We are the fourth largest economy California,
fourth largest economy in the world, in the world, guys,
(18:44):
look up the statistic. It blew my mind. I was like,
what California. Yep, the United States is first, but we're
right there. We're not that far behind. For number four.
You do not want to bankrupt us, and this will
not bankrupt us. We will figure it out. We will
fight our way to the top, and we will remember.
We will, of course remember.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
I want to say this before you jump in Q.
I want to make sure that I say that. Another
thing that I think is important for people to remember
is that you know, people that come across the border,
because they make it seem like it's an invasion, like
there's the borders wide open and they're just letting all
these voters in or whatever. First off, it is not
an invasion. That's a word that is sensationalized. But these
people cannot vote. You know, you can't just come across
(19:26):
the border and vote in the United States election. That
doesn't work that way. You know, citizens vote, you know,
outside of that, you don't vote. And for people to
think that that's true again, you are kind of in
the conspiracy theory, sort of part of part of your timeline.
And you know, we're just here to remind you that
(19:48):
that's just not a real thing.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
SOQ go ahead.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
You know, prior to this most recent election, voter fraud
was a net zero right almost never ever, our election
tend to be very very secure, except this last one
where they rigged it. And the guy keeps saying on
camera and microphones that they rigged it over and over
again and nobody cares. But you know, we won't keep
saying he rigged it because you know, people might be listening,
(20:12):
and we don't want to give people the impression that
the election was rigged. You know that Donald Trump and
Elon Musk may have rigged the machines in the most
recent election. We don't want to give that impression to
people that they rigged the election, because you know, we
would never say such a thing on the radio. Right,
(20:35):
This has just been such an incredible experience and experiment
for all of us. And I know our time is
kind of windening down here. Any thoughts for people who
have kind of just lost hope and the things that
are supposed to protect us and the idea resilience that
we're supposed to have that there's a light at the
end of the tunnel, Like, if there was a wear
(20:56):
from here, what direction would you point us in?
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Yeah, we're from here. Community unity, Yeah, I like that. Yeah.
We protect ourselves, we protect each other, and we come
together more unified than ever. Community is the medicine. Community
is the antidote to what we're experiencing right now.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Well, I uh, I'm not going to disagree with you,
because one of the things that Q often tells me
whenever we end up in a new city supporting some
civil rights organization or you know, we're there to speak
or to do a live show or something like that,
is we get out of our studio where it's just
(21:40):
me and him, and we get around people who feel
the same way, so we know we're not alone. And
these people have great ideas and they help us with
our ideas and so forth, and that community really does matter,
and it fortifies us and it helps us remain strong.
And so those are absolutely wise words and words that
we intend to live by. So with that in mind,
(22:01):
we're going to leave it right here. Thank you very much,
Wendy for taking the time to hang out with us.
A real quick shout out your social media, as, your podcast,
your website, all that, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Thank you so much. You can find me on Instagram
at Wendyamara. My website is Wendyamara dot com, and you
can find the podcast everywhere that you listen to podcasts.
It's called Yes, Movehead, build it.
Speaker 2 (22:23):
And don't forget.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
You can find us on all social media at Civic
Cipher and be sure to hit civicipher dot com. That's
where you can submit any questions, any topics you want
us to cover. You can also make a donation. The
show grows with your support, and the show is growing
quite a bit, so keep supporting and we'll keep doing
our best. You can also follow us on all social
media at Civic Cipher on all platforms, be sure to
(22:45):
subscribe to our YouTube. You can find me on all
social media at ramses job I.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Am qword on all social media as well.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
And we don't keep it going.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
And until next week, y'all peace,
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