November 22, 2025 • 29 mins
In the second half of the program, we discuss the consequences of unchecked power and anonymity given to ICE agents and how they have deployed their terror campaign in North Carolina.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Keep on riding with us as we continue to broadcast
the balance and defend the discourse from these hip hop
weekly studios. Welcome back to Civic Cipher. I am still
your host, Ramses job.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
He is Rams' job. I am q Ward. You are
still tuned in to Civic Cipher.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Indeed you are, and we need you to stick around
for this part of the show. We're going to lean
into a conversation that we've been having from time to time,
but we're seeing the culmination of a lot of really
disturbing things surrounding ice and ice raids and the powers
(00:44):
granted to ice and ice ignoring lawful rulings by courts
because they're empowered by the President, who in theory, is
you know, working for the American people, not a dictator
or a king. And we've seen these efforts ramped up
(01:08):
in Charlotte, North Carolina, and so we're going to spend
a good amount of this part of the show talking
about what's going on on the ground in Charlotte because
this world, this country especially, is changing right out from
under us. And you know, our job is to remain
informed and do our best to inform you. And so
(01:29):
we're going to do our best with that today before
we get into the weeds. You know, Q, you sent
this over because you wanted to make sure that we
we talked about this. Give me your thoughts in terms
of like what you why you think this is so important,
and what you're hoping you know, people will learn from
(01:52):
you know, what we're sharing today.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
There's a really interesting thing that's happening with this conversation,
this topic, and this moment in history. And you know,
the other side, whatever you call them, has done such
an effective job of othering everyone that isn't a straight
Christian white man, that everyone's worth is less to everyone else.
(02:19):
So we talk about convenient allieship, and we talk about
cognitive dissonance and hypernormalization and people being able to just
carry on about their day and the light of some
things that should be pretty horrific and terrifying and scary
and should hurt people's feelings and enrage people and upset them,
except almost everyone thinks that it's just happening to someone else.
(02:43):
And I say almost everyone because in a lot of
these videos we see there are people outside with cameras protesting, upset,
trying to bring about some change. But most people in
my life that I encounter that I have these conversations with.
It's like they hear what I'm saying, and they might
even agree with the sentiment of what I'm saying, but
(03:06):
I can tell they agree with it in a really abstract,
detached way, you know what I mean, not like it's
having any real impact on them, like, hey, yeah, that's
a in theory, that's a bad thing that that's happening
to someone somewhere. But you know, oh well, I got
to be the work, or oh well, I got to
pick the kids up, or oh well, let's go to
the mall or to a restaurant or to a movie,
or everyone's just carrying on. And I've had people tell me, hey, man,
(03:33):
you gotta you need to just worry more about yourself. Man,
turn the news off, you know, to take a break
from the work you do. And my question is, do
you think if I turned the TV off or took
a break from the work that I do, that I
would feel it less, That I would be less worried, frustrated,
(03:56):
less afraid, less enraged, worry more about myself what I
am worry about myself, my family, my children, my brother's family,
his children, my friends, their families. H I don't think
for some people this this thing is not at their
(04:18):
front door. And i'd i'd cautioned to say yet, right,
because a lot of people don't fit that description that
I started this with, heterosexual Christian white I might even
want to add heterosexual Christian white man and rich. Right,
(04:39):
So all women, all poor people, all black and brown people,
all immigrants, all people who don't fit that description. I
mean we could, we could, we could have this conversation forever.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
And it's just here's my biggest fears.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
You and I are fathers, so the might hit you
a little different, it might hit all fathers a little different.
There is a very indistinguishable thing about the way these
raids and round ups are being carried out.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
And it's.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
It's really the most terrifying, emotionally emotionally complex, morally impossible
question that you or I and I'll make it very simple.
I'll make it me and you and not just people
in general, would have to face because we're being pushed
into a dilemma that we can't really fail if and
(05:43):
when it happens in real time. So masked men you
can't see their face, sunglasses, masks, that cover up everything
but their eyes that are covered by sunglasses. They don't
have to show a badge, they don't have to show
a warned, they.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Don't have to have just you don't have any due process.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
They refuse to identify themselves, to give you their name,
to show them a badge, to cite the authority. They
don't even tell you the reason that they're there. And
you're with your kids, and in my case, my babies,
my six and eight year old, and these men go
(06:23):
to grab them. And Araamsen and I shared a story
once upon a time on the show where someone tried
to take my son from us at a grocery store
in the parking lot, opened the back door and reached
in to take him out of his car seat, also
not identifying themselves. Also have no idea what they look like.
(06:47):
Also trying to take my baby from me as a father?
What am I supposed to do? Are we being arrested?
Are we being kidnapped? Are we being trafficked? Are we
being detained or were being deported? We don't know. And
in that moment, ramses, do we risk our lives to
(07:08):
protect our families, which be our natural inclination from men?
Trying to take our family from us. What do we
instruct our family to do if they're trying to take
us from them?
Speaker 3 (07:20):
Who knows? Yeah, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Like, this is the most impossible and disgusting thing of
all the time, protect fight to protect my family, or
comply and risk never seeing them again, them never seeing
me again, them being subject to abuse, cruelty, forever trauma.
(07:45):
And we're kind of all waiting for this to happen
to us. We don't realize that because I think some
of us think it never could, even though we're watching
it happen to people that look just like us on
TV and on social media every day. Some of us,
a lot of us have steeled place this as this
thing that's happening on TV and not this very very
real possibility of something that could happen to us. Because
(08:10):
if you resist rams, you can be killed on the spot.
We've seen them fire bullets and tear gas and all
types of stuff into people's cars with children inside. If
you comply, you can be disappeared with no record, no lawyer,
no due process. You protect your family, they can retaliate
more violently if you don't. You live with the guilt
(08:32):
of not intervening and not knowing if you should have
or not. We're left with no safe choice. That's why
it's really hard to not talk about this every time
we get a chance.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Well, let's.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Paint the picture of what's going on in North Carolina
and why it feels it's so different. Okay, So I'm
going to share this from the bi in. Federal immigration
agents carried out a massive sweep in Charlotte, North Carolina,
over the weekend, arresting more than one hundred and thirty
(09:12):
people in an operation that prompted backlash from local leaders
and immigrant advocates. Per Newsweek, I want to know editors. Note,
I know that number is higher. I believe it's over
two hundred people at present, but based on this article,
that was the number they were working with.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Quote.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
During the first two days of operation, Charlotte's web border
patrol arrested over one hundred and thirty illegal aliens who
have all broken the immigration laws of our country, unquote,
a Department of Homeland Security spokesperson said in the statement.
According to DHS, those arrested included individuals with felony larceny,
(09:57):
weapons charges, gang affiliations, assault, hidden on DUI slash DWI
and illegal reentry.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
Quote.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
We will not stop enforcing the laws of our nation
until every criminal illegal alien is arrested and removed from
our country, the agency said. The sweep conducted by CBP,
ICE and the FBI, as well as the DA and
other federal agencies as part of the Trump administration's immigration crackdown.
Mitchell said eighty one people were arrested on Saturday, November
(10:25):
fifteenth alone. DHS spokesperson Tricia McLaughlin said the surge was
intended to quote ensure Americans are safe and public safety
threats are removed. However, local leaders accused agents of stoking
fear in Charlotte communities. North Carolina Governor Josh Stein said
public safety quote means fighting crime, not stoking fear causing
(10:47):
division unquote.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
There's another quote.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
If you see any inappropriate behavior, use your phones to
record and notify local law enforcement unquote.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
Stein said.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Charlotte, where about seventeen point nine percent of its residents
were born outside of the US, saw crime fall eight
percent last year, including a twenty percent drop in violent crime. However,
Trump has repeatedly cited the fatal train stabbing of Ukrainian
refugee Irna.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Zarutzka.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
I believe that's how I say this in calls for
heightened ice operations and democratic led cities. The Enforcement Surgeon
Charlotte is led by Central Commander Gregory Bovino, a Western
North Carolina native whose units have faced scrutiny for heavy
handed tactics. So I'm gonna go back, and I know
I just shared that with you, but there's some some
(11:38):
points I want to make. Okay, during the first two
days of Operation Charlotte's Well have border patrol arrested over
one hundred and thirty illegal aliens. Okay, I want to
I want to focus on that term illegal aliens. Being
in this country illegally is not a felony and is
(12:07):
a misdemeanor. You can be in this country illegally because
of paperwork oversight. You can be in this country illegally
because somehow your paperwork or your you know whatever. You know,
(12:28):
the rules change, laws, change cases get moved. You know
that judges retire all that sort of stuff, and if
you are in violation, we treat that as a misdemeanor. Right,
So this idea of illegal aliens, my belief is that
they use terms like this to scare people and to
(12:50):
group people with paperwork issues in with hardened criminals that
are actively doing crime, in other words, being here in
this country. Not everybody sneaks across the border in the
desert to come here. I believe we talked about this
(13:10):
before in a recent episode. But there are five tiers
of immigration, right the lowest tiers like a bona fide,
you know, illegal person who's just happens to be here.
And then there's three different levels. One is like green card,
one is like you know, work visa, maybe one is
(13:35):
like student visa, like that sort of thing. But there's
there are tiers, and then the top tier, of course,
is the US says. And what isa's done is delineated
the bottom four rungs of the immigration hierarchy or stratification
or whatever, and determined that all of those rungs are
(13:59):
illegal aliens. Right now, some people are in the process
of getting their citizenships, some people are in the process of,
you know, working out their asylum paperwork, and then some
people are you know, bonafide you know, economic asylum seekers
that are just here because you know, they couldn't wait
and they needed to make money and this country has
(14:20):
sucked all the resources out of their country, and they
came through the desert, you know, like that in those ways.
And what Donald Trump ran on was saying that he
was going to go after the worst of the worst,
the criminals, that sort of thing, right, In other words,
people that were here, living here, working, making money, paying taxes,
buying goods, you know, sales tax is a thing, you know,
(14:43):
And you know, maybe they haven't started their their citizenship process,
or maybe they're somewhere along the lines, maybe they have families, businesses, whatever.
Those people conceivably would be exempt from Donald Trump's immigration raids.
But obviously, once Donald Trump got the White House, he
(15:05):
put forth a mandate to satisfy the you know, he
said this again on the show the Fever pitch that
he whipped up in his base on the right, suggesting
that there was a criminal invasion at our southern border, right,
which put a spotlight on the backs of in particular
brown people in this country. And having Stephen Miller impost
(15:31):
quotas on these ice agents means that now the hardest criminals,
the hardest, the worst, you know, street thugs or whatever,
you're going to run dry on those people. Very short, shortly,
and the numbers that you deport won't match the sort
of fever pitch that you've whipped up in what people
(15:53):
want to see. And so everyone else in the process,
people that are working, people that are in the applicant process,
they are all grouped in now and getting deported.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
These are people that have integrated in in communities. These
are people that have, as I mentioned, have jobs, families,
et cetera.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
We've discussed ICE raids at courthouses.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
We've discussed ICE where people are in the process that immigration.
ICE goes to the immigration hearings to arrest people while
they're in process. I've said before on the show that
it doesn't make sense. You know, if people say that
they want immigrants to be here legally and pay taxes,
(16:35):
it doesn't make sense to then go and grab these
people and deport them. If they're already here and already
paying taxes and you want them to pay more taxes,
you should make the citizenship process easier. Paying ICE to
go and grab these people and deport them as though
they're all violent criminals. Is throwing good money after bad
(16:58):
If we're talking dollars and not only is it inhumane.
It just doesn't make fiscal sense. And if that's not
your issue, that these people are not citizens and they're
not paying taxes, then I challenge you to examine how
racist you actually are, because I would imagine that if
(17:19):
the issue is not then paying taxes, if they're in
the process to become citizens, or we could create a
process for them to become citizens, and you still espouse
getting them out of the country, then you probably don't
want them in this country because you just don't like them.
As far as breaking the laws are concerned in this country, again,
(17:45):
many people live in this country without knowing that they've
broken the law. For instance, the ice raids in Chicago.
This is Donald Trump's own Department of Justice determined that
(18:05):
six hundred and seven people were apprehended. Of those six
hundred and seven people that were illegal, only sixteen had
criminal records. So the vast majority of these people have
never had any trouble with the law. They're not the
worst of the worst. They're not violent offenders, they're not
criminal street gang street thugs, and those sixteen aren't necessarily
(18:28):
criminals and street thugs and any of that stuff either.
If you got busted for pot when you were in
the tenth grade. You know that'll follow you, and you
know then you show up as one of those sixteen people.
I'm not saying that, you know, all those people had
petty crimes like that or misdemeanor crimes like that, but
(18:51):
obviously the vast majority of them didn't.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
You know.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
I think five hundred and eighty something, five hundred and
ninety something of the people of the six hundred and
seven had no involvement with law enforcement ever in this country.
So again, people are here for a number of reasons.
You know, borders are man made, and this idea, this
(19:15):
notion that people come here and take advantage of our
systems and cost us money, is just a fallacy, especially
when we're talking about these people that come here and work.
They're not free loaders. They don't qualify for welfare, they
don't qualify for healthcare, they don't qualify for any government
programs because they're not citizens. They're in the process of
getting their citizenship. And if your justification for ejecting them
(19:36):
from the country is that they're not citizens, it's sort
of the cart before the horse thing. If they're in
the process of doing that correctly, and if you stand
by isis they do raids at immigration facilities.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
Then again, I think your racism is on full display.
Let me continue.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Yeah, So in South Carolina, they're saying that all these
individual felony, larceny, weapons charges, gang fillions, all that sort
of stuff, some of that stuff has just whipped up stuff,
trumped up charges.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
They've gone to say, this is North Carolina, right, North Carolina.
That's what I meant, sir.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
They're gone to say, we will not stop enforcing the
laws of our nation until every criminal illegal alien is
arrested and removed from our country. Again, they're using specific
terms to paint these human beings in a certain way
that they just don't fit into that mold. They're trying
to fit these square peg people into this round hole
created by Donald Trump so he could retake the White House.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
He wanted.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
There to be a weak border so that he can
campaign on a week border. This is not me speculating.
We covered this story. This is why Joe Biden was
not able to get a border bill across because Donald
Trump called and demanded that Republicans not pass a bipartisan
border deal. So again, when he was campaigning this last
(21:02):
go round, he was pointing out the fact that the
border was vulnerable.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
And you know, vulnerability of the border.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Changes with administrations, with Mexico's administrations, with just the changing
of the times, the changing of the seasons, right, so
we always start refining our operations on our southern border,
and we were in need of a new one. Joe
Biden wasn't able to get one done because Donald Trump
torpedoed it. Donald Trump then campaigned on a week border
(21:32):
week southern border so that he could retake the White House,
whipped up this frenzy on the right. Everyone thinks there's
an invasion and there wasn't, certainly not a criminal invasion.
And now they're using language like this every criminal illegal alien.
They're using language like this to justify all of the
(21:53):
deportations that they're doing, when the truth is most of
these people are decent folks working and trying to make
something happened while they're here on these grounds. I do
want to mention too that this is a democratic city.
Black woman is the mayor of this city and the
governor of North Carolina is a Democrat. And you know,
(22:20):
last point I'll make is that you know the process,
the heavy handed process that they're using, you know, breaking
people's windows, snatching people out of cars, forcing people to
identify themselves, disappearing people, as you mentioned, people that are citizens,
even US citizens are on the menu because they look
like they might not be US citizens, which is extremely racist.
(22:44):
We've covered these stories, but the craziest part about it
is these masks that they wear because you can't see
these people, and it brings out the worst in people
when there's no potential for accountability. As illustrate, I have
this article up this also from the b In the
headline reads ice worker flexed his employment while being arrested
(23:09):
in child sex sting.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Okay, that's just what we're reading right now.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
We've covered stories of SA we've covered stories of robberies,
we've covered stories of all kinds of gross stuff. Usually
these are like sexual devians masked up and they're dressed
like ICE agents. Maybe they are, there's no way to
(23:34):
know because Ice is protected from consequences. So either Ice
is out of hand or this uniform is creating these
copycats that are terrorizing communities. And so there is a
mess in this country right now with respect to this
ICE stuff, and we see it on full display in
(23:58):
North Carolina, and it is our job to share what
we see with you, your reflections here.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
I mean, I kept, excuse me wanting to interrupt you,
because we just spent a lot of time opening about
legal status and immigration status and immigration court and immigration steps.
And you know, whether the misdemeanor status of being here
without the proper paperworking, YadA, YadA, YadA, as if that
matters at all. Almost two hundred US citizens, almost two
(24:34):
hundred US citizens, not immigrants, not student visas, not green cards,
not going through the process of becoming citizens, no citizens.
So none of that matters, whether it's a misdemeanor or
a felony, or the level of crime, or the immigration
(24:56):
status or the category of immigrant that you are. Because
this is racist on its face. They can say that
you don't look or sound like a citizen, and the
Supreme Court of the United States has determined that's good enough.
We didn't think you looked or sounded like a citizen,
(25:18):
so you too. And when there's no due process, you
can't even prove that they're wrong. And when they're wrong,
they just say oops and do it to someone else.
This should be terrifying.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Can I make that live a little bit more for you,
because I know what you're talking about. But you remember
you sent me an article and it was about a
Native American woman that was caught up in an ice ray,
Native American caught up to be deported. So go ahead,
We covered the story. So for people want to go
(25:56):
check me.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
No, that's important to point out someone who's ancestors were
here before. This was a country, before the constitution existed,
the constitution that you guys now stomp on.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
On.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
A clerical error, is what they said at the end
of it. It's not because it was a clerical error
because you know what we haven't seen yet, Ramses mistakenly
snatched up white immigrants or citizens, because there are undocumented
white immigrants all.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
Over the country. Absolutely, to the hundreds of.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Thousands, maybe to the millions, not a single case, not
a single case of a white citizen or immigrant being
snatched up, detained, separated from their family, shot, sexually assaulted,
beat up, tortured, imprisoned, or deported. It's never had anything
(26:52):
to do with immigration status and had to do with
the criminalization of others and the justification of unlawful, cruel, disgusting,
grotesque treatment of others and the moral compass of this
country is broken, and almost everyone has decided as long
(27:17):
as it's not happening happening to specifically me right now,
I guess I could just turn the other cheecken keep
going about my day. And that's why we can't stop
talking about it. Well around here, we intend to do
(27:39):
our job, so be sure to keep us honest. We
know that one took a while to get through. But yeah,
also get your passports. If you don't have a passport,
get your passport. Okay, you're gonna need some documentation. If
(27:59):
you're able, get a passport. And that's going to do
it for us here on Civic Cipher.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
I have been your host ramses joh and you can
find me on all platforms at ramses Jah.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
I am q Ward on a social media as well,
and I just work here.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
And be sure to hit the website zivic cipher dot
com if you got any questions, any topics you want
us to cover. You can also make a donation once again,
that is civic cipher dot com. You shure to follow
us on all social media at Civic Cipher. You can
download this in any previous episode. UH lock in with
us and UH you know, let's keep on rocking in
the still somewhat free world for some of us.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
And until next week, y'all, Peace Now, watch
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Erations, arming direct
Keep on riding with us as we continue to broadcast
the balance and defend the discourse from these hip hop
weekly studios. Welcome back to Civic Cipher. I am still
your host, Ramses job.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
He is Rams' job. I am q Ward. You are
still tuned in to Civic Cipher.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Indeed you are, and we need you to stick around
for this part of the show. We're going to lean
into a conversation that we've been having from time to time,
but we're seeing the culmination of a lot of really
disturbing things surrounding ice and ice raids and the powers
(00:44):
granted to ice and ice ignoring lawful rulings by courts
because they're empowered by the President, who in theory, is
you know, working for the American people, not a dictator
or a king. And we've seen these efforts ramped up
(01:08):
in Charlotte, North Carolina, and so we're going to spend
a good amount of this part of the show talking
about what's going on on the ground in Charlotte because
this world, this country especially, is changing right out from
under us. And you know, our job is to remain
informed and do our best to inform you. And so
(01:29):
we're going to do our best with that today before
we get into the weeds. You know, Q, you sent
this over because you wanted to make sure that we
we talked about this. Give me your thoughts in terms
of like what you why you think this is so important,
and what you're hoping you know, people will learn from
(01:52):
you know, what we're sharing today.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
There's a really interesting thing that's happening with this conversation,
this topic, and this moment in history. And you know,
the other side, whatever you call them, has done such
an effective job of othering everyone that isn't a straight
Christian white man, that everyone's worth is less to everyone else.
(02:19):
So we talk about convenient allieship, and we talk about
cognitive dissonance and hypernormalization and people being able to just
carry on about their day and the light of some
things that should be pretty horrific and terrifying and scary
and should hurt people's feelings and enrage people and upset them,
except almost everyone thinks that it's just happening to someone else.
(02:43):
And I say almost everyone because in a lot of
these videos we see there are people outside with cameras protesting, upset,
trying to bring about some change. But most people in
my life that I encounter that I have these conversations with.
It's like they hear what I'm saying, and they might
even agree with the sentiment of what I'm saying, but
(03:06):
I can tell they agree with it in a really abstract,
detached way, you know what I mean, not like it's
having any real impact on them, like, hey, yeah, that's
a in theory, that's a bad thing that that's happening
to someone somewhere. But you know, oh well, I got
to be the work, or oh well, I got to
pick the kids up, or oh well, let's go to
the mall or to a restaurant or to a movie,
or everyone's just carrying on. And I've had people tell me, hey, man,
(03:33):
you gotta you need to just worry more about yourself. Man,
turn the news off, you know, to take a break
from the work you do. And my question is, do
you think if I turned the TV off or took
a break from the work that I do, that I
would feel it less, That I would be less worried, frustrated,
(03:56):
less afraid, less enraged, worry more about myself what I
am worry about myself, my family, my children, my brother's family,
his children, my friends, their families. H I don't think
for some people this this thing is not at their
(04:18):
front door. And i'd i'd cautioned to say yet, right,
because a lot of people don't fit that description that
I started this with, heterosexual Christian white I might even
want to add heterosexual Christian white man and rich. Right,
(04:39):
So all women, all poor people, all black and brown people,
all immigrants, all people who don't fit that description. I
mean we could, we could, we could have this conversation forever.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
And it's just here's my biggest fears.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
You and I are fathers, so the might hit you
a little different, it might hit all fathers a little different.
There is a very indistinguishable thing about the way these
raids and round ups are being carried out.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
And it's.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
It's really the most terrifying, emotionally emotionally complex, morally impossible
question that you or I and I'll make it very simple.
I'll make it me and you and not just people
in general, would have to face because we're being pushed
into a dilemma that we can't really fail if and
(05:43):
when it happens in real time. So masked men you
can't see their face, sunglasses, masks, that cover up everything
but their eyes that are covered by sunglasses. They don't
have to show a badge, they don't have to show
a warned, they.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Don't have to have just you don't have any due process.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
They refuse to identify themselves, to give you their name,
to show them a badge, to cite the authority. They
don't even tell you the reason that they're there. And
you're with your kids, and in my case, my babies,
my six and eight year old, and these men go
(06:23):
to grab them. And Araamsen and I shared a story
once upon a time on the show where someone tried
to take my son from us at a grocery store
in the parking lot, opened the back door and reached
in to take him out of his car seat, also
not identifying themselves. Also have no idea what they look like.
(06:47):
Also trying to take my baby from me as a father?
What am I supposed to do? Are we being arrested?
Are we being kidnapped? Are we being trafficked? Are we
being detained or were being deported? We don't know. And
in that moment, ramses, do we risk our lives to
(07:08):
protect our families, which be our natural inclination from men?
Trying to take our family from us. What do we
instruct our family to do if they're trying to take
us from them?
Speaker 3 (07:20):
Who knows? Yeah, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Like, this is the most impossible and disgusting thing of
all the time, protect fight to protect my family, or
comply and risk never seeing them again, them never seeing
me again, them being subject to abuse, cruelty, forever trauma.
(07:45):
And we're kind of all waiting for this to happen
to us. We don't realize that because I think some
of us think it never could, even though we're watching
it happen to people that look just like us on
TV and on social media every day. Some of us,
a lot of us have steeled place this as this
thing that's happening on TV and not this very very
real possibility of something that could happen to us. Because
(08:10):
if you resist rams, you can be killed on the spot.
We've seen them fire bullets and tear gas and all
types of stuff into people's cars with children inside. If
you comply, you can be disappeared with no record, no lawyer,
no due process. You protect your family, they can retaliate
more violently if you don't. You live with the guilt
(08:32):
of not intervening and not knowing if you should have
or not. We're left with no safe choice. That's why
it's really hard to not talk about this every time
we get a chance.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
Well, let's.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Paint the picture of what's going on in North Carolina
and why it feels it's so different. Okay, So I'm
going to share this from the bi in. Federal immigration
agents carried out a massive sweep in Charlotte, North Carolina,
over the weekend, arresting more than one hundred and thirty
(09:12):
people in an operation that prompted backlash from local leaders
and immigrant advocates. Per Newsweek, I want to know editors. Note,
I know that number is higher. I believe it's over
two hundred people at present, but based on this article,
that was the number they were working with.
Speaker 3 (09:32):
Quote.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
During the first two days of operation, Charlotte's web border
patrol arrested over one hundred and thirty illegal aliens who
have all broken the immigration laws of our country, unquote,
a Department of Homeland Security spokesperson said in the statement.
According to DHS, those arrested included individuals with felony larceny,
(09:57):
weapons charges, gang affiliations, assault, hidden on DUI slash DWI
and illegal reentry.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
Quote.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
We will not stop enforcing the laws of our nation
until every criminal illegal alien is arrested and removed from
our country, the agency said. The sweep conducted by CBP,
ICE and the FBI, as well as the DA and
other federal agencies as part of the Trump administration's immigration crackdown.
Mitchell said eighty one people were arrested on Saturday, November
(10:25):
fifteenth alone. DHS spokesperson Tricia McLaughlin said the surge was
intended to quote ensure Americans are safe and public safety
threats are removed. However, local leaders accused agents of stoking
fear in Charlotte communities. North Carolina Governor Josh Stein said
public safety quote means fighting crime, not stoking fear causing
(10:47):
division unquote.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
There's another quote.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
If you see any inappropriate behavior, use your phones to
record and notify local law enforcement unquote.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
Stein said.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Charlotte, where about seventeen point nine percent of its residents
were born outside of the US, saw crime fall eight
percent last year, including a twenty percent drop in violent crime. However,
Trump has repeatedly cited the fatal train stabbing of Ukrainian
refugee Irna.
Speaker 3 (11:16):
Zarutzka.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
I believe that's how I say this in calls for
heightened ice operations and democratic led cities. The Enforcement Surgeon
Charlotte is led by Central Commander Gregory Bovino, a Western
North Carolina native whose units have faced scrutiny for heavy
handed tactics. So I'm gonna go back, and I know
I just shared that with you, but there's some some
(11:38):
points I want to make. Okay, during the first two
days of Operation Charlotte's Well have border patrol arrested over
one hundred and thirty illegal aliens. Okay, I want to
I want to focus on that term illegal aliens. Being
in this country illegally is not a felony and is
(12:07):
a misdemeanor. You can be in this country illegally because
of paperwork oversight. You can be in this country illegally
because somehow your paperwork or your you know whatever. You know,
(12:28):
the rules change, laws, change cases get moved. You know
that judges retire all that sort of stuff, and if
you are in violation, we treat that as a misdemeanor. Right,
So this idea of illegal aliens, my belief is that
they use terms like this to scare people and to
(12:50):
group people with paperwork issues in with hardened criminals that
are actively doing crime, in other words, being here in
this country. Not everybody sneaks across the border in the
desert to come here. I believe we talked about this
(13:10):
before in a recent episode. But there are five tiers
of immigration, right the lowest tiers like a bona fide,
you know, illegal person who's just happens to be here.
And then there's three different levels. One is like green card,
one is like you know, work visa, maybe one is
(13:35):
like student visa, like that sort of thing. But there's
there are tiers, and then the top tier, of course,
is the US says. And what isa's done is delineated
the bottom four rungs of the immigration hierarchy or stratification
or whatever, and determined that all of those rungs are
(13:59):
illegal aliens. Right now, some people are in the process
of getting their citizenships, some people are in the process of,
you know, working out their asylum paperwork, and then some
people are you know, bonafide you know, economic asylum seekers
that are just here because you know, they couldn't wait
and they needed to make money and this country has
(14:20):
sucked all the resources out of their country, and they
came through the desert, you know, like that in those ways.
And what Donald Trump ran on was saying that he
was going to go after the worst of the worst,
the criminals, that sort of thing, right, In other words,
people that were here, living here, working, making money, paying taxes,
buying goods, you know, sales tax is a thing, you know,
(14:43):
And you know, maybe they haven't started their their citizenship process,
or maybe they're somewhere along the lines, maybe they have families, businesses, whatever.
Those people conceivably would be exempt from Donald Trump's immigration raids.
But obviously, once Donald Trump got the White House, he
(15:05):
put forth a mandate to satisfy the you know, he
said this again on the show the Fever pitch that
he whipped up in his base on the right, suggesting
that there was a criminal invasion at our southern border, right,
which put a spotlight on the backs of in particular
brown people in this country. And having Stephen Miller impost
(15:31):
quotas on these ice agents means that now the hardest criminals,
the hardest, the worst, you know, street thugs or whatever,
you're going to run dry on those people. Very short, shortly,
and the numbers that you deport won't match the sort
of fever pitch that you've whipped up in what people
(15:53):
want to see. And so everyone else in the process,
people that are working, people that are in the applicant process,
they are all grouped in now and getting deported.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
These are people that have integrated in in communities. These
are people that have, as I mentioned, have jobs, families,
et cetera.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
We've discussed ICE raids at courthouses.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
We've discussed ICE where people are in the process that immigration.
ICE goes to the immigration hearings to arrest people while
they're in process. I've said before on the show that
it doesn't make sense. You know, if people say that
they want immigrants to be here legally and pay taxes,
(16:35):
it doesn't make sense to then go and grab these
people and deport them. If they're already here and already
paying taxes and you want them to pay more taxes,
you should make the citizenship process easier. Paying ICE to
go and grab these people and deport them as though
they're all violent criminals. Is throwing good money after bad
(16:58):
If we're talking dollars and not only is it inhumane.
It just doesn't make fiscal sense. And if that's not
your issue, that these people are not citizens and they're
not paying taxes, then I challenge you to examine how
racist you actually are, because I would imagine that if
(17:19):
the issue is not then paying taxes, if they're in
the process to become citizens, or we could create a
process for them to become citizens, and you still espouse
getting them out of the country, then you probably don't
want them in this country because you just don't like them.
As far as breaking the laws are concerned in this country, again,
(17:45):
many people live in this country without knowing that they've
broken the law. For instance, the ice raids in Chicago.
This is Donald Trump's own Department of Justice determined that
(18:05):
six hundred and seven people were apprehended. Of those six
hundred and seven people that were illegal, only sixteen had
criminal records. So the vast majority of these people have
never had any trouble with the law. They're not the
worst of the worst. They're not violent offenders, they're not
criminal street gang street thugs, and those sixteen aren't necessarily
(18:28):
criminals and street thugs and any of that stuff either.
If you got busted for pot when you were in
the tenth grade. You know that'll follow you, and you
know then you show up as one of those sixteen people.
I'm not saying that, you know, all those people had
petty crimes like that or misdemeanor crimes like that, but
(18:51):
obviously the vast majority of them didn't.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
You know.
Speaker 1 (18:53):
I think five hundred and eighty something, five hundred and
ninety something of the people of the six hundred and
seven had no involvement with law enforcement ever in this country.
So again, people are here for a number of reasons.
You know, borders are man made, and this idea, this
(19:15):
notion that people come here and take advantage of our
systems and cost us money, is just a fallacy, especially
when we're talking about these people that come here and work.
They're not free loaders. They don't qualify for welfare, they
don't qualify for healthcare, they don't qualify for any government
programs because they're not citizens. They're in the process of
getting their citizenship. And if your justification for ejecting them
(19:36):
from the country is that they're not citizens, it's sort
of the cart before the horse thing. If they're in
the process of doing that correctly, and if you stand
by isis they do raids at immigration facilities.
Speaker 3 (19:49):
Then again, I think your racism is on full display.
Let me continue.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Yeah, So in South Carolina, they're saying that all these
individual felony, larceny, weapons charges, gang fillions, all that sort
of stuff, some of that stuff has just whipped up stuff,
trumped up charges.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
They've gone to say, this is North Carolina, right, North Carolina.
That's what I meant, sir.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
They're gone to say, we will not stop enforcing the
laws of our nation until every criminal illegal alien is
arrested and removed from our country. Again, they're using specific
terms to paint these human beings in a certain way
that they just don't fit into that mold. They're trying
to fit these square peg people into this round hole
created by Donald Trump so he could retake the White House.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
He wanted.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
There to be a weak border so that he can
campaign on a week border. This is not me speculating.
We covered this story. This is why Joe Biden was
not able to get a border bill across because Donald
Trump called and demanded that Republicans not pass a bipartisan
border deal. So again, when he was campaigning this last
(21:02):
go round, he was pointing out the fact that the
border was vulnerable.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
And you know, vulnerability of the border.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Changes with administrations, with Mexico's administrations, with just the changing
of the times, the changing of the seasons, right, so
we always start refining our operations on our southern border,
and we were in need of a new one. Joe
Biden wasn't able to get one done because Donald Trump
torpedoed it. Donald Trump then campaigned on a week border
(21:32):
week southern border so that he could retake the White House,
whipped up this frenzy on the right. Everyone thinks there's
an invasion and there wasn't, certainly not a criminal invasion.
And now they're using language like this every criminal illegal alien.
They're using language like this to justify all of the
(21:53):
deportations that they're doing, when the truth is most of
these people are decent folks working and trying to make
something happened while they're here on these grounds. I do
want to mention too that this is a democratic city.
Black woman is the mayor of this city and the
governor of North Carolina is a Democrat. And you know,
(22:20):
last point I'll make is that you know the process,
the heavy handed process that they're using, you know, breaking
people's windows, snatching people out of cars, forcing people to
identify themselves, disappearing people, as you mentioned, people that are citizens,
even US citizens are on the menu because they look
like they might not be US citizens, which is extremely racist.
(22:44):
We've covered these stories, but the craziest part about it
is these masks that they wear because you can't see
these people, and it brings out the worst in people
when there's no potential for accountability. As illustrate, I have
this article up this also from the b In the
headline reads ice worker flexed his employment while being arrested
(23:09):
in child sex sting.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Okay, that's just what we're reading right now.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
We've covered stories of SA we've covered stories of robberies,
we've covered stories of all kinds of gross stuff. Usually
these are like sexual devians masked up and they're dressed
like ICE agents. Maybe they are, there's no way to
(23:34):
know because Ice is protected from consequences. So either Ice
is out of hand or this uniform is creating these
copycats that are terrorizing communities. And so there is a
mess in this country right now with respect to this
ICE stuff, and we see it on full display in
(23:58):
North Carolina, and it is our job to share what
we see with you, your reflections here.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
I mean, I kept, excuse me wanting to interrupt you,
because we just spent a lot of time opening about
legal status and immigration status and immigration court and immigration steps.
And you know, whether the misdemeanor status of being here
without the proper paperworking, YadA, YadA, YadA, as if that
matters at all. Almost two hundred US citizens, almost two
(24:34):
hundred US citizens, not immigrants, not student visas, not green cards,
not going through the process of becoming citizens, no citizens.
So none of that matters, whether it's a misdemeanor or
a felony, or the level of crime, or the immigration
(24:56):
status or the category of immigrant that you are. Because
this is racist on its face. They can say that
you don't look or sound like a citizen, and the
Supreme Court of the United States has determined that's good enough.
We didn't think you looked or sounded like a citizen,
(25:18):
so you too. And when there's no due process, you
can't even prove that they're wrong. And when they're wrong,
they just say oops and do it to someone else.
This should be terrifying.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Can I make that live a little bit more for you,
because I know what you're talking about. But you remember
you sent me an article and it was about a
Native American woman that was caught up in an ice ray,
Native American caught up to be deported. So go ahead,
We covered the story. So for people want to go
(25:56):
check me.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
No, that's important to point out someone who's ancestors were
here before. This was a country, before the constitution existed,
the constitution that you guys now stomp on.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
On.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
A clerical error, is what they said at the end
of it. It's not because it was a clerical error
because you know what we haven't seen yet, Ramses mistakenly
snatched up white immigrants or citizens, because there are undocumented
white immigrants all.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
Over the country. Absolutely, to the hundreds of.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Thousands, maybe to the millions, not a single case, not
a single case of a white citizen or immigrant being
snatched up, detained, separated from their family, shot, sexually assaulted,
beat up, tortured, imprisoned, or deported. It's never had anything
(26:52):
to do with immigration status and had to do with
the criminalization of others and the justification of unlawful, cruel, disgusting,
grotesque treatment of others and the moral compass of this
country is broken, and almost everyone has decided as long
(27:17):
as it's not happening happening to specifically me right now,
I guess I could just turn the other cheecken keep
going about my day. And that's why we can't stop
talking about it. Well around here, we intend to do
(27:39):
our job, so be sure to keep us honest. We
know that one took a while to get through. But yeah,
also get your passports. If you don't have a passport,
get your passport. Okay, you're gonna need some documentation. If
(27:59):
you're able, get a passport. And that's going to do
it for us here on Civic Cipher.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
I have been your host ramses joh and you can
find me on all platforms at ramses Jah.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
I am q Ward on a social media as well,
and I just work here.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
And be sure to hit the website zivic cipher dot
com if you got any questions, any topics you want
us to cover. You can also make a donation once again,
that is civic cipher dot com. You shure to follow
us on all social media at Civic Cipher. You can
download this in any previous episode. UH lock in with
us and UH you know, let's keep on rocking in
the still somewhat free world for some of us.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
And until next week, y'all, Peace Now, watch
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Erations, arming direct
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