September 6, 2025 • 22 mins
Christopher Towler, PhD is an Associate Professor in the Department of Political Science at California State University, Sacramento…He is the Director of the Black Voter Project, Co-Founder of Black Insights Research and the Editor-in-Chief of the Journal of Race, Ethnicity, and Politics
In the second half of the show, we look ahead to the strategies that may be successful for Democrats ahead of the midterm elections as well as the role of Democratic Socialism in modern politics.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Keep on riding with us as we continue to broadcast
the balance and defend the discourse from the Hip hop
Weekly Studios. Welcome back to Civic c seipherhim still your
host Rams's Jah And for those that don't know, q
Ward will return soon, but he is in the great
state of Michigan taking care of his mother, so please
keep his family in your thoughts and prayers. But in
(00:21):
the meantime, in between time, we have the great doctor
Christopher Talu with us. He is an associate professor in
the Department of Political Science at California State University, Sacramento.
Is also the director of the Black Voter Project, co
founder of Black Insights Research, and the editor in chief
of the Journal of Race, Ethnicity and Politics and the
author of the article the Newsweek article from Decline to
(00:44):
Revival why Democrats must repair the relationship with Black voters.
And we are having a conversation about that very article,
so be sure to stick around for the second part
of this conversation. But before we get there, it is
time to discuss Baba becoming a better Oullot Baba and
today's Baba. I want to share a story about two
black or sorry, two pastors that were arrested for protesting
(01:06):
the removal of a black mural in Florida. So this
from the Black Information Network. Two Florida pastors were arrested
after peacefully protesting the removal of a Black History Matter
Street in Saint Petersburg street mural sorry. According to Fox
thirteen Tampa Bay, Reverend Andrew Oliver of Allendale United Methodist
Church and Reverend Benedict Aherton Zemen of Unitarian Universalist Church
(01:30):
of Saint Petersburg were arrested after sitting directly on the
mural to block Florida Department of Transportation workers from painting
over it. Police said both men were repeatedly warned to
move before being arrested and charged with pedestrian obstruction and
hindering traffic. The protest came after Senate Bill sixteen sixty
two was signed in a law by Governor Ron de
Santis in June, prohibiting any form of political expression, including
(01:52):
street murals on state control transportation facilities. Critics say the
law is part of a broader effort by DeSantis and
Republican allies to target express of diversity and inclusion. Quote.
Let's be honest, we all know that this is about.
This is not about traffic safety. This is political. It's
part of the same culture war climate where symbols of
inclusion are targeted precisely because they represent acceptance. It's about
(02:14):
erasing the visibility of the LGBTQIA plus people. This according
to Delray Beach Vice Mayor Rob Long. The city of
Saint Petersburg pushed back against the effort, requesting exemptions for
several murals, including prime themed and campus artwork. Officials also
cited traffic crash data showing no safety issues tied to
the murals. Still, f DOT denied the request and moved
(02:37):
forward with the erasure. Saint Petersburg Mayor Ken Welch released
a statement last week in response to the situation, quote,
these murals are more than paint on the pavement. There
are expressions of our community identity and values. As mayor
of our city, I will not risk these essential investments
in a fight I don't believe we can win. But
make no mistake, this is not the end of his story.
Our response will be strategic, not reactionary. This, according to
(03:00):
Mayor Welch. So yeah, shout out to the two pastors
that put their bodies on the line to protest what
they believe is right, that is indeed true, allyship, and
we celebrate that around here. Okay, doctor Taller. Now, in
the first part of the show, you discuss something, and
(03:20):
this is my mistake because I should have asked. I
shouldn't have assumed that everyone knows what you meant. I
have the privilege of knowing you outside of this show,
so you've taught me quite a bit. But talk to
our listeners a bit about high propensity voters and low
propensity voters and what that means, because I don't think
(03:41):
that I think that the conversation registers a little bit
better once people understand what those terms actually entail.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Absolutely, So, when we talk about voters, especially black voters,
most of the time, it's just talked about in general
as a group of people that need to get out
to the polls to vote. However, deeper analyzes tend to
look at different types of black voters, and so we've
really really tried to impression upon sort of the mainstream
(04:11):
media and anyone we talk to that there are voters
who get out and vote all the time, who are
likely to vote in every single election, and they typically
have you know, a certain profile. They're more educated, more
economically well off, older, right oftentimes, live in urban communities.
And so this group of voters is what we would
(04:31):
call high propensity voters or sort of frequent voters or
super voters. People that are going to vote most of
the time, have voted most of their lives. You don't
necessarily have to look at them and say are they
going to vote? Right. On the other hand, there are
you know, a large group of voters in some estimates,
you know, forty percent of the black population that are
(04:53):
lower propensity voters. And these are voters who might vote
once in a while or maybe have voted in one
election in the last couple of cycles, but do not
vote all the time, do not really pay attention to
politics in the same way that the other group does,
and they have a different profile. Right Oftentimes, less educated,
less economically affluent, might live in more rural areas in
(05:15):
different parts of the country. Those low propensity voters, to
us are the ones who we need to be paying
attention to, especially in these since Obama left office, because
what we saw is that during President Obama's tenure, in
those elections two thousand and eight and twenty twelve, both
high and low propensity voters came out to vote at
(05:37):
historic rates. They wanted to see the first black president
not just win, but win a second term and serve
eight full years in the White House. And so under that, guys,
we saw the Democratic Party win elections that they probably
wouldn't have won as easily without black turnout being extremely high.
And so we saw for the first time in twenty twelve,
(06:00):
black turnout actually surpass white turnout in the national election. Right,
that's the first time in history that it's happened, and
it hasn't happened since. And that can be mostly attributed
to low propensity voters coming out at rates, you know,
very much more closer to these high propensity voters. But
then after Obama leave's office or left office, we saw
(06:20):
a lot of these low propensity infrequent voters go back
to not really paying attention to politics, not really voting
all the time or frequently like their high propensity counterparts.
And so in the newsweek piece we start to discuss
this in our analysis and say you have to start
to look at these two different groups of voters separately
(06:41):
and distinctly to really understand what types of messaging and
what types of campaign strategies need to be put in
place to win elections and to get black voters to
the polls to help turn the tide YEA.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
So now that that is identify, we know the difference
between hyperpensity and low propensity voters and the roles that
each plays, I guess there's a little bit more clarity
in looking back on the twenty twenty four election and
(07:15):
the messaging, because, again you mentioned this in the first
part of the show, sending the messaging to the voters
that already know and that are engaged doesn't necessarily move
the needle with people who would are. They're not privy
(07:38):
to that information and it's not a part of their
lives as many people, as we've established on the show.
Many times they wake up in the morning and they
go to work, and then they get their kids from
daycare or pick them up from the babysitter, and then
go home and then they have to make dinner, and
after they make dinner, they go to their second job.
And that's their life cycle, you know what I mean.
And they're not really they're trying to survive and they're
(07:59):
trying to get as much money as they can to
change their material reality. So when it comes to politics,
it may as well be in Pokemon cards. You know,
they're just it's just not a thing for them. And so,
and looking back on where you know Democrats went wrong
(08:20):
in the twenty twenty four election, trusting that people would
show up just because Kamala Harris was black. That was
putting a lot of faith and I believe also taking
advantage of and assuming that black people only show up
(08:40):
for race and not because a person really represents a
fundamental change for their lifestyle. Now, Democrats, having learned that lesson,
I think might adopt the different strategy going into midterms.
(09:04):
So my question to you is, again, as a great
political mind, can you say with more certainty what Democrats
should be prioritizing ahead of the midterm elections, not just
with respect to low propensity voters, but in general. Do
you have any thoughts that you think would you know,
(09:28):
move the needle for Democrats in this country?
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Yeah, I mean, first and foremost Democrats need to find
ways to invest in black voters early, right and often
like start now, find resources and funding to start get
out the vote campaigns where you have people in black communities,
especially in districts and states where you have contested midterm elections,
(09:52):
right where you either have sort of a governor election
or a Senate or a House election that black voters
can make a difference in. Right, have people out in
those communities talking to voters impression it upon them the
importance of their vote as soon as possible, right. And
that takes money, that takes resources, And that's one reason
why we often don't see it as much as it
(10:14):
needs to be done because the resources are hard to
come by. Most campaigns, most political democratic establishments have finite resources.
But if I could push them to do anything, it
would be to get out there and use as much
resources as possible in black communities early and often right
when it comes to actual messaging right again, all of
(10:37):
the work I've done for the last seven to eight years,
ever since sort of Trump's first term, going into the
twenty eighteen midterms and looking at twenty twenty suggests that
black voters will be most convinced to vote if they
understand the current threat, what's right in their face when
(10:57):
it comes to Trump and mega impressioning upon them the
importance of their vote in right now, protecting the gains
that have been made over the last fifty to sixty
years really since the Civil rights movement, right, the generational
gains in progress the black community has seen, because it's
clear if you have even a short conversation about this
(11:18):
with anyone, that the MAGA make America Great Again movement
again part is harrowing back, hearkening back to a time
period where black people had less rights, where black people
had less freedoms, where it was harder to vote, and
where the black community was less well off than it
is today. Right, even though, as we've talked about, many
people don't necessarily feel like their lives are that great today,
(11:40):
there's a lot of struggle going on. It can always
get worse, right, And I think those are the arguments
that need to be made when talking to people with
an understanding that it's right in our face now right,
this is the time to take action if there ever
was time, And these midterm elections are not just one
way to necessarily move towards change for the future, but
(12:03):
to stop what's taking place right now Right. If you
don't like troops being sent into black cities, this is
an opportunity to vote to try and change that. If
you don't like, you know, a lot of the gutting
of DEI policy funding being taken from black colleges and
universities across the country that your voters can change that
(12:23):
right now, right there's there's a tax on the black
community coming from the Trump administration, the MAGA movement, that
can be stopped and at least there can be some
sense of opposition if Democrats, you know, succeed and when
not when back offices either in the House or the
Senate in the midterm elections.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
I love that. Okay, So there's another I guess wrench
in in the uh in the mix here, give us
your thoughts on zoron my Donnie in New York City.
(13:03):
Do you feel like there might be a concern that
black voters might be interested in maybe Democratic Socialism over
the traditional Democratic Party, because based on what I've seen,
obviously the numbers don't support that, but there's been some
trends that that movement, the Democratic Socialist of America, is
(13:24):
growing and it's fueled particularly by people of color. Do
you think that, well, really, just give us your thoughts
on that, on that whole movement, because I know it's
hard to predict. It's kind of still early, but you know,
that's not nothing, so it talk to us about that.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Yeah, I think one thing's for certain that the New
York mayors race has become a sort of national spectacle
because both parties are trying to use it as a
symbol for what could be or could not be for
the future of American politics, right. And so there's been
some embrace of the race and progressive policies there if
(14:02):
they think it can be beneficial to the Democrats, But
there's also been some sort of highlighting how these policies
move away from what you might consider traditional politics from
the Republicans if they feel like it can hurt the
Democrats in the future. And so that that mayoral race
is getting a lot of attention, even though it's not
necessarily going to affect national politics in the way that
(14:24):
people might say it will, right, I think that it's
still going to be very contained to New York City
and New York State and not changed too much outside
of there. When it comes to sort of this idea
of democratic socialism, there's always been a sort of interest
within the Black community for a third party, a party
that is not necessarily attached to Democrats or Republicans a
(14:45):
party that can serve the interests of those who are
not in the sort of political elite. Because there's also
a sense, as we just talked about, right, that not
just Republicans, but Democrats are not paying attention to the
majority of black voters unless they need something from them,
such as their vote. Right, and so even in our
surveys over the last election cycle, there's a need. Thirty
(15:06):
to forty percent of Black people consistently say, yeah, we're
interested in the third party. We'd love to have a
third option out there. Democratic socialism, though in practice at
least over the last decade, has struggled to capture black
voters because there's been a disconnect from the political elite
pushing the movement and the black community. And a focus
(15:26):
on economics is great, but black people also understand that
there is racism baked into our economic system. And a
focus just on economics without a mention of how racism
within economics, whether it's institutional or individual racism, will be
dealt with, right, leads to some of the same problems
that black people live through in almost any other section
(15:48):
of society beyond economics. Right, This idea that great, you
can have an economic policy, but that economic policy could
also be racist and just benefit certain people over others.
And this has come up time in a game when
we've done analysis of sort of Bernie Sanders, and the
lack of black support for Sanders has come down to
this idea that he talks a lot about economics and
(16:11):
economic policies that are popular with the black community, but
when talked about how those economic policies will make sure
that they are not just benefiting white people or they're
not leaving black people behind, there's again sort of this
lack of conversation or lack of trust in the system,
the party, the ideas from the black community because they
(16:33):
don't they don't want to see the same thing happen
with those policies that happens with everything else. Sure Where
it turns into a great policy, but in practice, in operation,
black people still get the short end of the stick.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Yeah, yeah, okay, okay, So before we I know we're
close to the end here, but I want to circle
back because we had a conversation early about the way
that Democrats have been branded by this current administration as
(17:05):
do nothing democrats. What are your thoughts on that label,
especially given the fact that Donald Trump has been able
to maybe not legally, maybe not through traditional and expected channels,
(17:26):
but he has been successful at really shifting the culture
in this country in short order, where Democrats have historically
succumbed to legislative roadblocks and the like. This term do
(17:51):
nothing democrats. I feel like that is very harmful for
people who espouse a progressive agenda. But do you think
that it has some basis in the real world or not?
And if so, do you think the Democrats are learning
getting a crash course and what can be done given
(18:11):
this current administration's trajectory.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
I hope that would be the case. We're kind of
seeing that in the redistricting battle that's taking place. Yes, yes, okay,
we are really trying to find ways to fight back
and ways to fight back that are you know, voters
recognize as fighting rather than just another sort of wordplay
and talk. Right, They're actually trying to put some money
(18:35):
where their mouth is this time, So hopefully they're learning.
I think the Democrats face a major challenge here and
that for so long they've ridden on the back of
civil rights gains and the civil rights movement when it
comes to black support with an understanding that Democrats pushed
forward through segregation right, the undoing of Jim Crow, the
(18:56):
institution of the Voting Rights Act, the expansion of the franchise,
all of this are things that for decades the Democrats
had relied upon to win black support, to gain black support. However,
a lot of that civil rights policy did not change
the actual material status of the black community right. The
black community still there's still major gaps, if not growing
(19:17):
gaps when it comes to family income, when it comes
to the black versus white wealth and employment, home ownership,
these gaps have not closed much, if at all, since
the nineteen sixties and seventies, and so Democrats now are
having to explain for that right, the civil rights gains
of the past are now really in the past. And
(19:39):
there's especially a new generation of black voters coming of
age who are looking at their lives and being like, Okay, yeah,
I understand we're not segregated anymore, but I'm still having
a hard time paying my rent. I'm still having a
hard time not living. Check a month to month, check
to check what can be done now, like we need
to as some of these actual material gains or lack thereof,
(20:03):
and really invest in policy that is redistributing resources and
bringing resources to the black community in ways that now,
you know, address these gaps that have existed and haven't
closed since the nineteen sixties and seventies. There's sort of
this second half of the civil rights movement, these gains
now when it comes to poverty levels, when it comes
(20:23):
to employment, that there needs to be real solutions, right.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Yeah, yeah, And before I let you go, just maybe
like twenty seconds, you know, and you spark the thought.
You know, many folks are suggesting that Trump's presidency looks
like the beginning of the decline of the American Empire, right,
and they come with parallels and data and all this
(20:49):
sort of stuff to support this conclusion. Any thoughts on
this idea that Donald Trump is fundamentally changing this country
to where will no longer be recognizable as indeed the
American Empire that we've come to know.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
I'm going to just stick with sort of black politics
here and say, from the perspective of at least historical
race relations, many black people would you know, laugh at
that from the beginning and say the America is never
the empire. It says it was right that it's been
a facade. This whole idea of the American dream has
(21:27):
not been reachable for many black people. You know, for
the entire history of the country. That this idea that
the American empire is crumbling is really just a sense
that the rest of the country is seeing what non
white groups, what minority groups have lived for most of
their lives in America. Right, And so from my perspective,
(21:48):
at least coming from someone who studies black politics and
researches the black community and has these lived experiences, this
idea of a crumbling empire is nothing new. Right, It
was bound to have been considering how most people view
their lives and their position in American politics and society
day in and day out.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Doctor Christopher Twaler, I appreciate you every single time you
take a moment to talk to us and to our
listeners and educate us on about the goings on in
the country, having data driven conversations, indeed doing the research
before we let you go. Please shout out to your
social media ways folks can support you and keep in
contact with all the work that you're doing.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Absolutely, you can follow me on social media, you know,
post analysis and things on x or Twitter at Black
b l K p R o F CCT, blackprop CCT,
and then definitely check out the research and analysis on
the websites www Dot Blackmotor Project dot com and www
(22:48):
Dot Black Insightsresearch dot com. Thanks so much for having
me you know again, it's always a great conversation, happy
to talk about these important topics.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
We appreciate you, sir,
Keep on riding with us as we continue to broadcast
the balance and defend the discourse from the Hip hop
Weekly Studios. Welcome back to Civic c seipherhim still your
host Rams's Jah And for those that don't know, q
Ward will return soon, but he is in the great
state of Michigan taking care of his mother, so please
keep his family in your thoughts and prayers. But in
(00:21):
the meantime, in between time, we have the great doctor
Christopher Talu with us. He is an associate professor in
the Department of Political Science at California State University, Sacramento.
Is also the director of the Black Voter Project, co
founder of Black Insights Research, and the editor in chief
of the Journal of Race, Ethnicity and Politics and the
author of the article the Newsweek article from Decline to
(00:44):
Revival why Democrats must repair the relationship with Black voters.
And we are having a conversation about that very article,
so be sure to stick around for the second part
of this conversation. But before we get there, it is
time to discuss Baba becoming a better Oullot Baba and
today's Baba. I want to share a story about two
black or sorry, two pastors that were arrested for protesting
(01:06):
the removal of a black mural in Florida. So this
from the Black Information Network. Two Florida pastors were arrested
after peacefully protesting the removal of a Black History Matter
Street in Saint Petersburg street mural sorry. According to Fox
thirteen Tampa Bay, Reverend Andrew Oliver of Allendale United Methodist
Church and Reverend Benedict Aherton Zemen of Unitarian Universalist Church
(01:30):
of Saint Petersburg were arrested after sitting directly on the
mural to block Florida Department of Transportation workers from painting
over it. Police said both men were repeatedly warned to
move before being arrested and charged with pedestrian obstruction and
hindering traffic. The protest came after Senate Bill sixteen sixty
two was signed in a law by Governor Ron de
Santis in June, prohibiting any form of political expression, including
(01:52):
street murals on state control transportation facilities. Critics say the
law is part of a broader effort by DeSantis and
Republican allies to target express of diversity and inclusion. Quote.
Let's be honest, we all know that this is about.
This is not about traffic safety. This is political. It's
part of the same culture war climate where symbols of
inclusion are targeted precisely because they represent acceptance. It's about
(02:14):
erasing the visibility of the LGBTQIA plus people. This according
to Delray Beach Vice Mayor Rob Long. The city of
Saint Petersburg pushed back against the effort, requesting exemptions for
several murals, including prime themed and campus artwork. Officials also
cited traffic crash data showing no safety issues tied to
the murals. Still, f DOT denied the request and moved
(02:37):
forward with the erasure. Saint Petersburg Mayor Ken Welch released
a statement last week in response to the situation, quote,
these murals are more than paint on the pavement. There
are expressions of our community identity and values. As mayor
of our city, I will not risk these essential investments
in a fight I don't believe we can win. But
make no mistake, this is not the end of his story.
Our response will be strategic, not reactionary. This, according to
(03:00):
Mayor Welch. So yeah, shout out to the two pastors
that put their bodies on the line to protest what
they believe is right, that is indeed true, allyship, and
we celebrate that around here. Okay, doctor Taller. Now, in
the first part of the show, you discuss something, and
(03:20):
this is my mistake because I should have asked. I
shouldn't have assumed that everyone knows what you meant. I
have the privilege of knowing you outside of this show,
so you've taught me quite a bit. But talk to
our listeners a bit about high propensity voters and low
propensity voters and what that means, because I don't think
(03:41):
that I think that the conversation registers a little bit
better once people understand what those terms actually entail.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Absolutely, So, when we talk about voters, especially black voters,
most of the time, it's just talked about in general
as a group of people that need to get out
to the polls to vote. However, deeper analyzes tend to
look at different types of black voters, and so we've
really really tried to impression upon sort of the mainstream
(04:11):
media and anyone we talk to that there are voters
who get out and vote all the time, who are
likely to vote in every single election, and they typically
have you know, a certain profile. They're more educated, more
economically well off, older, right oftentimes, live in urban communities.
And so this group of voters is what we would
(04:31):
call high propensity voters or sort of frequent voters or
super voters. People that are going to vote most of
the time, have voted most of their lives. You don't
necessarily have to look at them and say are they
going to vote? Right. On the other hand, there are
you know, a large group of voters in some estimates,
you know, forty percent of the black population that are
(04:53):
lower propensity voters. And these are voters who might vote
once in a while or maybe have voted in one
election in the last couple of cycles, but do not
vote all the time, do not really pay attention to
politics in the same way that the other group does,
and they have a different profile. Right Oftentimes, less educated,
less economically affluent, might live in more rural areas in
(05:15):
different parts of the country. Those low propensity voters, to
us are the ones who we need to be paying
attention to, especially in these since Obama left office, because
what we saw is that during President Obama's tenure, in
those elections two thousand and eight and twenty twelve, both
high and low propensity voters came out to vote at
(05:37):
historic rates. They wanted to see the first black president
not just win, but win a second term and serve
eight full years in the White House. And so under that, guys,
we saw the Democratic Party win elections that they probably
wouldn't have won as easily without black turnout being extremely high.
And so we saw for the first time in twenty twelve,
(06:00):
black turnout actually surpass white turnout in the national election. Right,
that's the first time in history that it's happened, and
it hasn't happened since. And that can be mostly attributed
to low propensity voters coming out at rates, you know,
very much more closer to these high propensity voters. But
then after Obama leave's office or left office, we saw
(06:20):
a lot of these low propensity infrequent voters go back
to not really paying attention to politics, not really voting
all the time or frequently like their high propensity counterparts.
And so in the newsweek piece we start to discuss
this in our analysis and say you have to start
to look at these two different groups of voters separately
(06:41):
and distinctly to really understand what types of messaging and
what types of campaign strategies need to be put in
place to win elections and to get black voters to
the polls to help turn the tide YEA.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
So now that that is identify, we know the difference
between hyperpensity and low propensity voters and the roles that
each plays, I guess there's a little bit more clarity
in looking back on the twenty twenty four election and
(07:15):
the messaging, because, again you mentioned this in the first
part of the show, sending the messaging to the voters
that already know and that are engaged doesn't necessarily move
the needle with people who would are. They're not privy
(07:38):
to that information and it's not a part of their
lives as many people, as we've established on the show.
Many times they wake up in the morning and they
go to work, and then they get their kids from
daycare or pick them up from the babysitter, and then
go home and then they have to make dinner, and
after they make dinner, they go to their second job.
And that's their life cycle, you know what I mean.
And they're not really they're trying to survive and they're
(07:59):
trying to get as much money as they can to
change their material reality. So when it comes to politics,
it may as well be in Pokemon cards. You know,
they're just it's just not a thing for them. And so,
and looking back on where you know Democrats went wrong
(08:20):
in the twenty twenty four election, trusting that people would
show up just because Kamala Harris was black. That was
putting a lot of faith and I believe also taking
advantage of and assuming that black people only show up
(08:40):
for race and not because a person really represents a
fundamental change for their lifestyle. Now, Democrats, having learned that lesson,
I think might adopt the different strategy going into midterms.
(09:04):
So my question to you is, again, as a great
political mind, can you say with more certainty what Democrats
should be prioritizing ahead of the midterm elections, not just
with respect to low propensity voters, but in general. Do
you have any thoughts that you think would you know,
(09:28):
move the needle for Democrats in this country?
Speaker 2 (09:30):
Yeah, I mean, first and foremost Democrats need to find
ways to invest in black voters early, right and often
like start now, find resources and funding to start get
out the vote campaigns where you have people in black communities,
especially in districts and states where you have contested midterm elections,
(09:52):
right where you either have sort of a governor election
or a Senate or a House election that black voters
can make a difference in. Right, have people out in
those communities talking to voters impression it upon them the
importance of their vote as soon as possible, right. And
that takes money, that takes resources, And that's one reason
why we often don't see it as much as it
(10:14):
needs to be done because the resources are hard to
come by. Most campaigns, most political democratic establishments have finite resources.
But if I could push them to do anything, it
would be to get out there and use as much
resources as possible in black communities early and often right
when it comes to actual messaging right again, all of
(10:37):
the work I've done for the last seven to eight years,
ever since sort of Trump's first term, going into the
twenty eighteen midterms and looking at twenty twenty suggests that
black voters will be most convinced to vote if they
understand the current threat, what's right in their face when
(10:57):
it comes to Trump and mega impressioning upon them the
importance of their vote in right now, protecting the gains
that have been made over the last fifty to sixty
years really since the Civil rights movement, right, the generational
gains in progress the black community has seen, because it's
clear if you have even a short conversation about this
(11:18):
with anyone, that the MAGA make America Great Again movement
again part is harrowing back, hearkening back to a time
period where black people had less rights, where black people
had less freedoms, where it was harder to vote, and
where the black community was less well off than it
is today. Right, even though, as we've talked about, many
people don't necessarily feel like their lives are that great today,
(11:40):
there's a lot of struggle going on. It can always
get worse, right, And I think those are the arguments
that need to be made when talking to people with
an understanding that it's right in our face now right,
this is the time to take action if there ever
was time, And these midterm elections are not just one
way to necessarily move towards change for the future, but
(12:03):
to stop what's taking place right now Right. If you
don't like troops being sent into black cities, this is
an opportunity to vote to try and change that. If
you don't like, you know, a lot of the gutting
of DEI policy funding being taken from black colleges and
universities across the country that your voters can change that
(12:23):
right now, right there's there's a tax on the black
community coming from the Trump administration, the MAGA movement, that
can be stopped and at least there can be some
sense of opposition if Democrats, you know, succeed and when
not when back offices either in the House or the
Senate in the midterm elections.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
I love that. Okay, So there's another I guess wrench
in in the uh in the mix here, give us
your thoughts on zoron my Donnie in New York City.
(13:03):
Do you feel like there might be a concern that
black voters might be interested in maybe Democratic Socialism over
the traditional Democratic Party, because based on what I've seen,
obviously the numbers don't support that, but there's been some
trends that that movement, the Democratic Socialist of America, is
(13:24):
growing and it's fueled particularly by people of color. Do
you think that, well, really, just give us your thoughts
on that, on that whole movement, because I know it's
hard to predict. It's kind of still early, but you know,
that's not nothing, so it talk to us about that.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Yeah, I think one thing's for certain that the New
York mayors race has become a sort of national spectacle
because both parties are trying to use it as a
symbol for what could be or could not be for
the future of American politics, right. And so there's been
some embrace of the race and progressive policies there if
(14:02):
they think it can be beneficial to the Democrats, But
there's also been some sort of highlighting how these policies
move away from what you might consider traditional politics from
the Republicans if they feel like it can hurt the
Democrats in the future. And so that that mayoral race
is getting a lot of attention, even though it's not
necessarily going to affect national politics in the way that
(14:24):
people might say it will, right, I think that it's
still going to be very contained to New York City
and New York State and not changed too much outside
of there. When it comes to sort of this idea
of democratic socialism, there's always been a sort of interest
within the Black community for a third party, a party
that is not necessarily attached to Democrats or Republicans a
(14:45):
party that can serve the interests of those who are
not in the sort of political elite. Because there's also
a sense, as we just talked about, right, that not
just Republicans, but Democrats are not paying attention to the
majority of black voters unless they need something from them,
such as their vote. Right, and so even in our
surveys over the last election cycle, there's a need. Thirty
(15:06):
to forty percent of Black people consistently say, yeah, we're
interested in the third party. We'd love to have a
third option out there. Democratic socialism, though in practice at
least over the last decade, has struggled to capture black
voters because there's been a disconnect from the political elite
pushing the movement and the black community. And a focus
(15:26):
on economics is great, but black people also understand that
there is racism baked into our economic system. And a
focus just on economics without a mention of how racism
within economics, whether it's institutional or individual racism, will be
dealt with, right, leads to some of the same problems
that black people live through in almost any other section
(15:48):
of society beyond economics. Right, This idea that great, you
can have an economic policy, but that economic policy could
also be racist and just benefit certain people over others.
And this has come up time in a game when
we've done analysis of sort of Bernie Sanders, and the
lack of black support for Sanders has come down to
this idea that he talks a lot about economics and
(16:11):
economic policies that are popular with the black community, but
when talked about how those economic policies will make sure
that they are not just benefiting white people or they're
not leaving black people behind, there's again sort of this
lack of conversation or lack of trust in the system,
the party, the ideas from the black community because they
(16:33):
don't they don't want to see the same thing happen
with those policies that happens with everything else. Sure Where
it turns into a great policy, but in practice, in operation,
black people still get the short end of the stick.
Speaker 1 (16:45):
Yeah, yeah, okay, okay, So before we I know we're
close to the end here, but I want to circle
back because we had a conversation early about the way
that Democrats have been branded by this current administration as
(17:05):
do nothing democrats. What are your thoughts on that label,
especially given the fact that Donald Trump has been able
to maybe not legally, maybe not through traditional and expected channels,
(17:26):
but he has been successful at really shifting the culture
in this country in short order, where Democrats have historically
succumbed to legislative roadblocks and the like. This term do
(17:51):
nothing democrats. I feel like that is very harmful for
people who espouse a progressive agenda. But do you think
that it has some basis in the real world or not?
And if so, do you think the Democrats are learning
getting a crash course and what can be done given
(18:11):
this current administration's trajectory.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
I hope that would be the case. We're kind of
seeing that in the redistricting battle that's taking place. Yes, yes, okay,
we are really trying to find ways to fight back
and ways to fight back that are you know, voters
recognize as fighting rather than just another sort of wordplay
and talk. Right, They're actually trying to put some money
(18:35):
where their mouth is this time, So hopefully they're learning.
I think the Democrats face a major challenge here and
that for so long they've ridden on the back of
civil rights gains and the civil rights movement when it
comes to black support with an understanding that Democrats pushed
forward through segregation right, the undoing of Jim Crow, the
(18:56):
institution of the Voting Rights Act, the expansion of the franchise,
all of this are things that for decades the Democrats
had relied upon to win black support, to gain black support. However,
a lot of that civil rights policy did not change
the actual material status of the black community right. The
black community still there's still major gaps, if not growing
(19:17):
gaps when it comes to family income, when it comes
to the black versus white wealth and employment, home ownership,
these gaps have not closed much, if at all, since
the nineteen sixties and seventies, and so Democrats now are
having to explain for that right, the civil rights gains
of the past are now really in the past. And
(19:39):
there's especially a new generation of black voters coming of
age who are looking at their lives and being like, Okay, yeah,
I understand we're not segregated anymore, but I'm still having
a hard time paying my rent. I'm still having a
hard time not living. Check a month to month, check
to check what can be done now, like we need
to as some of these actual material gains or lack thereof,
(20:03):
and really invest in policy that is redistributing resources and
bringing resources to the black community in ways that now,
you know, address these gaps that have existed and haven't
closed since the nineteen sixties and seventies. There's sort of
this second half of the civil rights movement, these gains
now when it comes to poverty levels, when it comes
(20:23):
to employment, that there needs to be real solutions, right.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Yeah, yeah, And before I let you go, just maybe
like twenty seconds, you know, and you spark the thought.
You know, many folks are suggesting that Trump's presidency looks
like the beginning of the decline of the American Empire, right,
and they come with parallels and data and all this
(20:49):
sort of stuff to support this conclusion. Any thoughts on
this idea that Donald Trump is fundamentally changing this country
to where will no longer be recognizable as indeed the
American Empire that we've come to know.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
I'm going to just stick with sort of black politics
here and say, from the perspective of at least historical
race relations, many black people would you know, laugh at
that from the beginning and say the America is never
the empire. It says it was right that it's been
a facade. This whole idea of the American dream has
(21:27):
not been reachable for many black people. You know, for
the entire history of the country. That this idea that
the American empire is crumbling is really just a sense
that the rest of the country is seeing what non
white groups, what minority groups have lived for most of
their lives in America. Right, And so from my perspective,
(21:48):
at least coming from someone who studies black politics and
researches the black community and has these lived experiences, this
idea of a crumbling empire is nothing new. Right, It
was bound to have been considering how most people view
their lives and their position in American politics and society
day in and day out.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
Doctor Christopher Twaler, I appreciate you every single time you
take a moment to talk to us and to our
listeners and educate us on about the goings on in
the country, having data driven conversations, indeed doing the research
before we let you go. Please shout out to your
social media ways folks can support you and keep in
contact with all the work that you're doing.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Absolutely, you can follow me on social media, you know,
post analysis and things on x or Twitter at Black
b l K p R o F CCT, blackprop CCT,
and then definitely check out the research and analysis on
the websites www Dot Blackmotor Project dot com and www
(22:48):
Dot Black Insightsresearch dot com. Thanks so much for having
me you know again, it's always a great conversation, happy
to talk about these important topics.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
We appreciate you, sir,
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