August 2, 2022 • 55 mins
It’s been a grueling season for AJ’s St. Mary’s squad. Spirits are low. Exhaustion has creeped in. The Regional Competition is around the corner – and the case packet has just dropped. If they win in Houston, they advance to Nationals. Lose, and they go home. And standing in their way is perennial nemesis, Baylor University. The odds are low, but when the finals are held on a Sunday, anything can happen.
Learn more about the schools, programs and special guests:
St. Mary's University Law School
Texas Young Lawyers Association
University of Houston Law Center
American Board of Trial Advocates
University of Texas, Austin, School of Law
Follow us on Twitter @ClassActionPod and Instagram @ClassActionPod
Visit our show page for transcripts and more details about the series at ClassActionPod.com
Follow host Katie Phang on Twitter @KatiePhang and Instagram @KatiePhang.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Class Action is a production of I Heart Radio and
Sound argument. All right, my little sister, bringers and hands,
but we don't have Jack Jasmine. Where is she? Where
is she? Jackbreaking stuff? Wait? Wait wait wait missing Jasmine?
(00:21):
Wait we're missing Jasmine. No, Hi, where are you? He's cold?
He's in short tease driving Yeah yeah, yeah, like he
was driving right now? Remember the rule relieving it? Okay,
she said she's walking out a row. Tell her, Tell
her not to her. She said, he said, you have
(00:41):
to run. No, don't do that to her. I'm just kidding.
I'm just kidding. Oh. There she is. She's in she's
me on blue gaster. She's in a full on track suit.
She was met in the medical school. Away. Hello everyone, yes,
(01:06):
all right, here we go road again. Don't wait to
get back all the ruin again? Everybody good? I love
is making music. But I should go to karaoke. Well now,
but I'm so sorry what I'm Jasmine's just mad because
(01:28):
she doesn't understand I don't have it, so when it
comes in, it's just it was my first time. M hm.
So right now, I have no idea where we are.
I just woke up from a now, but we're on
are we Houston and we stopped at of Buckey's classic
(01:50):
must must do in Texas. Apparently they have the best
convenience store barbecue sandwiches in the state. But it's it's
just miserable outside. I mean it is grey, a like
I've never seen Texas be gray before. But we are
moving in root into Houston. Jasmine brought like seven different
albums jackets, Dude, it was at least four weeks that
(02:16):
leather coat completely say for one night you brought that coach, Jasmine,
because you will be Jack Barrow on us. I'm watching
the news. Chernobyl just fell to the Russians. So that's fun.
Chernobyl the side of the nuclear disaster. The Russians just
(02:38):
took it. Okay, so they're still moving south. This is
that entrance Chernobyl. Yeah, they took Chernobyl. You know the
energy in this van. Don't ask me that because I'm
bling this stuff right now. Lanes left East Wen days ago,
(03:04):
still in their frosties. The frosty, their frosties, Yeah, what good?
The little one thing on this big Yeah, Like, why
would you ever get a frosty when you can just
get a bluezard. I did I like frost after the
(03:33):
disappointing loss at the Best of Texas competition. So we
lost that round. We lost that round two to one.
You do. The St. Mary's Trial team. It's back together,
only this time without Mariella, and they're on route to
the highest stakes tournament of the year, the regional bracket
(03:55):
of the National Trial Competition. Eleven schools start out on Friday,
but only two will survive and advance to Nationals on Sunday.
By that time, for everyone else, the season will be over.
And while this isn't the first rodeo for St. Mary's,
it is the first time they'll be competing live this season.
(04:19):
Welcome to the Harris County Civil Court House. Oh you
should know about the trip to the room is where
they're always going to be. How all coffee in the
northern room. It's gonna be lunch as well. The law
(04:41):
students are all dressed up for a swanky happy hour
that's on the docket for tonight. The only table available
to St. Mary's, though, smack dab in the center of
the room where all of the other teams can check
them out. Okay, Judge Christine Weans, the competition host, leaves
(05:05):
the students to fend for themselves. She pulls all of
the coaches into a conference room to sort out the
rules and to draw off the matchups. So we do
a four round prelim just because I hate three round prelimbs.
I'm very bitter. I did I got well. I got
on the losing end of a three round free limb
in law school like twenty five years ago, and I
still hold a grudge about it. So that back in
(05:30):
the main room, it's awkward. The St. Mary's team tries
to act cool. It's unique, just to help you like
and then sate your words before you speak. She does red,
leather yellow. There's a lot of side eye glances, silent judgments,
(05:50):
and forced small talk, except from cold. If you hacked
into a nuclear reactor, you could scram the reactor, which
shuts down the plant, cutting off power. That's very good
for the civilians. Like that are easy when everything's going good,
and then it goes bad. But these are competitors and
they are on high alert for any smack talk from
(06:13):
the other schools, especially from their arch nemesis, Baylor University.
My name is Christopher Grant. I am the young Padawan
to the Jedi Master, Chris Ruise, Christopher Ruise. This is
my fourth tournament on Baffa Baylor. I competed an undergrad,
so I've been reprobailor for seven years now. It's a
(06:33):
great experience. UM really enjoy it and looking forward to
the tournament. An hour goes by and the coaches, well,
they're oblivious to what their suffering students are going through.
You can't do that, you can't play one six, And
everyone that one I know verses that, Yes, I feel
(06:57):
like it'sn consensus is that we are a little bit
just like a tiny it's starving star. How long how
you guys left for the coaches conference? And we thought
like that was the happy hour, so we were like,
bring on the tapas and no, no tapas. Okay, that's
the opening around. I'll put on this on the website.
(07:18):
It's late, it's freezing and it's raining. The top us
and the fashionable cocktails at the happy hour are going
to waste this whole let's get together and bond with
your fellow law student thing. Well, it's a total bust.
I mean the other option is that you'll just go
back to the hotel now and get literally, I prefer that.
(07:40):
I just yeah, I mean we can, we can, I
mean we could do that. I gotta go with happy
Arab and y'all you can go back. There was teams
that didn't even show up to the this is episode
ten of Class Action. Any given Sunday, the excitement level
for them is just huge and it just makes all
(08:01):
of our hearts grow and it's why we do this.
It's extremely fast paced once you're in the competition. Breach
are Vino and Ashley Emil oversee the national competition for
the Texas Young Lawyers Association. There's not a lot of
time to think once you're in it. You just have
to do what you know that you need to do
(08:24):
and move forward. I think the competition setting is important
for them to understand how to be good trial lawyers
when the stakes are high, when there's the pressure on,
when there's the stress to it. As well. This morning,
I will go befoward and was dressing. I couldn't I
couldn't go back to bed, and I was like, oh
my gosh, I'm gonna pass out, like I'm not sleeping
(08:45):
enough and I have to go two rounds, Like what
if that happens? And then Andy woke up finally, and
I'm like Andy just like no, no, we're switching. And
I was like, okay, So my main job is just
to make sure all those cats are heard it at
the beginning, make sure they're on coach. Jason Goss comes
across like a good old boy, but just below the surface,
(09:06):
he's hell bent on a trophy. Jason was the star
attorney on the last Saint Mary's team to make it
to Nationals way back in two thousand. How a killer.
How need road every time because if you don't, which
(09:27):
would be the last one problem did you ever do?
When you're up everything rightes on this weekend, you gotta
kill him. South Texas is very good. I mean they're
just they're always very good. Same Mary's always goes against
South Texas and Taylor always every year since I've been here,
(09:49):
every year, and it's always hard and that's good and
if you beat him, you feel really good. Going both ways,
some of the facts start to blur a little bit together,
especially since some of the initial stuff and openings and
crosses and directs kind of are similar questions, So it
would throw me off. So I saw that I had
two ties that are kind of similar in design. So
(10:11):
in side of gold is defense. I've always been told
red is a prosecution color, So I think blue is
a proper because we're good guys. Well, red red as
prosecution for me. So that's how I keep it straight,
all right. Uh? Calling to order Cause number one eight
(10:33):
three three three the State of lone Star versus Timmy Williams. Uh,
we're on the record. Does the state have any emotions? Yes,
your honor. By way of background, the defendant in today's case,
Timmy Williams, is being charged with possession of the controlled
substance with the intent to deliver. Now, the defendant was
(10:56):
found in apartment number one along with cocaine and other
associated drug paraphernalia. Now the apartment in question is listed
under Tommy Williams, who's the defendant's brother. Yes, your honor,
we are here today on a possession of a controlled
substance with intent to deliver. That controlled substance being cocaine.
(11:20):
A key issue in today's case is who had actual care,
custody and control. It will be our defense that Tommy
Williams was the one who had actual care, custody and control.
That's an officer Perez took the drugs from upstairs, walked
them downstairs to a table where there was a scale.
So he took the cocaine from upstairs, brought it downstairs,
(11:43):
placed it on this scale, and then took the photograph.
Um it would be misleading the jury as it was
manipulated in stage for this photograph to be taken. After
months on Zoo, Jasmine finally has the opportunit unity to
take advantage of the dynamics of a real courtroom. I
(12:04):
may I approach the witness. Cole who's normally pretty shy,
can finally lead those I want to talk about that scale.
Do you see that skill there? Yes, you didn't check
that scale for fingerprints? Did you know you didn't check
that scale for cocaine? And of course Jasmine can have
her hair just right, her nails flawless, as she likes
(12:28):
to say. Everyone is making eye contact with the witness,
the judge, and the other team. It's a revelation. It
was the perfect example of delivery because it was manipulated
in many ways. The defense case, it's juicier. They can
argue that investigators rushed to judgment, that they staged the evidence.
(12:51):
They didn't even read Timmy Williams is Miranda Lets. You
didn't talk to anybody that day? Did you know? I
did not? You didn't talk to anyone there any other time,
did you. No prosecution is supposed to keep us safe.
Where it's these supposed to keep the government in check.
You have to keep the bad cops in check, and
you have to hammer them hard. You didn't talk to
(13:14):
the landlord of that apartment comp You never tried to
examine a lease agreements. You never tried to verify who
actually owned apartment one two three, did you? So there's
this weird dynamic. You know, it sounds bad making an
example because you don't want to go too far, but
you also don't want to you know, convicts in the
court of public opinion the copy did nothing wrong, but
(13:35):
you might have to imply that they did something wrong
in order to serve your client. So you can either
choose to do what is right or what is easy,
and the state has chosen to do what is easy.
Members the jury, we're asking you to do what is
right when you see that verdict form to find Mr
(13:55):
Williams not guilty. Thank you cancers. At this point we're
going to submit the matter to the jury. Uh and
so we are in recess until that point off the record,
all right, So I mean I feel good about them.
(14:16):
You know, we'll just kind of see. It's gonna be
interesting because if they do well in these first two rounds,
are gonna be going against the best and the third
and fourth and everybody's gonna knocking each other down. So
that's that's a good thing. It's a surprisingly good first
day for the St. Mary's team. They win this round
(14:38):
as well as the next, with Andy wearing her prosecutor's hat,
ripping apart the key witness for the defense. Yes, Mr Williams,
according to you, the scales and the scale and this
photo isn't yours. It is not according to you, the
straws aren't yours. According to you, the little baggies aren't yours.
(14:59):
And according to you, the coke Hayne isn't yours. And
according to you, you're Tommy Williams. Right. Not according to me,
on Timmy Williams. But that's not what you told the
police on the day that you were arrested. That's accurate
for the questions at this time. Oh okay, I'm sorry.
I'm still waiting to hear from this round in this
round to find out who the presiding judges. But I
know Bill Ford's praying dudge guy saw him on the
(15:19):
bench in that one. Okay, It's the second day of
the regional tournament and head coach A. J. Blito de
Luna is volunteering to help judge Weems with the scoring system.
It's a complex job and something he's done throughout his
career in the trial advocacy world. AJ maintains his neutrality,
(15:40):
but he can't help but be excited at how well
his team is too. Are our St. Mary's two team
of Team one sixty three. They're the ones that just
swept that last round. They're facing the Baylor team, um,
which is happens to be in the first place. We
have a tough match up, but this is where this
(16:02):
is where we're supposed to be. You want to be
in the arena with the big boys, right with the
big teams. That's that's where you want to be. You
want to be playing against the best players. And the
fact that they you know, they came out of the basement,
so there's a lot more about their character. I really
really just hope that we like break this fake curse.
(16:25):
That everyone is talking, you know, like we just haven't
we haven't, we haven't advanced in so long, Like I
really just want to be the team that does it.
It's time. We've waited long enough and we know that
we got it, So we just got to do it
for Andy, Jasmine and Cole. Their entire season is on
the line. Ye was a council Thanks a gentleman the jury,
(16:51):
Please the court. Two wrongs don't make a right. Three
lies don't make a truth. And this trial, Mike Ho
counsel is gonna come before you, Miss Andy Viscotta. She's
gonna go through all of the evidence that you saw
today and you're gonna see the wrongs of the defendant
and the lies of the defendant don't make it true.
(17:13):
She's gonna show you how we have met our burden
of proof, and she will ask you to find the defendant,
Timmy Williams guilty. Baylor is not fooling around. They bring
in their a team, may please the court. My name
is Christopher Crant and I'm proud to be here representing
(17:35):
Timmy Williams. Just a moment ago, the state came before
you and they spent most of their time talking about
the fact that Timmy Williams. Well, they're gonna tell you
over and over and over and over again that he's
a liar. He's a liar. You shouldn't trust him checking
(17:56):
your honor. Apologize. But this is getting into signific me
argument in the territory of hope existence in general, I try.
I am a fairly quiet person, keep to myself, and
I don't confront people here. To me, it makes sense
for me to be a little more snippy and a
little more aggressive. You give me an assignment, I do it.
(18:20):
Maybe it's because it's Baylor, or maybe it's the pressure
or the threat of elimination, but it's obvious these lawyers
really don't like each other. The mascot for Baylor is
the bear for St. Mary's. It's the rattlesnake. Mr Williams.
How many times would you say that you lied to
law enforcement on the day that you were arrested. Mr Williams,
(18:42):
you told that the law enforcement that day that you
were talking about doing that. You're also throwing your brother
under the bus. So the truth is, throughout the entire
course of your investigation, you found no evidence Timmy Williams
ever received any payment in exchange for drugs. I found
(19:02):
no money. Correct, you found no evidence Timmy Williams communicated
with anyone whatsoever to buy or sell two pieces of
key evidence with your bare hands. So, Officer pres you
staged this photograph. I disagree with that. In stage and
(19:24):
gentlemen of the jury, we learned today that when Timmy
Williams is back is against the wall, what he does
his lie. Today, you have the power to deliver a
verdict based on the truth. I asked that you find
the defendant guilty today. May it please the court? It
is a scary society for us to live in, to
(19:45):
think that you can visit somebody's house and because that
somebody else has something incriminating upstairs, you could be found guilty.
He had nothing to hide, That's what they told you.
If you had nothing to hide, why lie? If you
(20:06):
had nothing to hide, why would you ask how do
I get out of these charges? Why not say? Wait? WHOA,
this has gone too far. I'm not Tommy, I'm Timmy.
Those aren't my drugs objection. I'm sorry to interrupt. I
asked that to be stricken, let's move if he had
(20:26):
nothing to hide. While Andy, your style is great, I knew.
I knew from your face you didn't like my original
ruling on on the conversation. No, I mean, it's fine,
and it's okay to be disappointed, right, it's fine. But
I like the way you came back, and you came
(20:47):
back in a very respectful way, and you had new evidence.
Uh Andy, gosh, you're such a good advocate. Cole. Also, man, y'all,
both of you guys are the team super professionals. Christopher,
you are an excellent storyteller. Danielle really good. You're a
(21:10):
really good listener. But maybe don't get too aggressive right
off the back. God, alright, so the part that you
care about, you know, the teams that are advancing in
the semifinals for Regent ten, then the three thirty third
on prosecution will be Team three fifty Baylor two. Okay,
(21:38):
first team one sixty three, say Eric. And then the
last team in the semifinal round will be in the
team three forty nine Baylor one. Persis Team one six
(22:00):
Saint Mary. Y'all broke, I'm sure y'all have work to
do for the rest of you. Didn't break. We thank
you so much for coming there. Help because you need
(22:21):
crete she's a much No, I'm happy, proud of all.
I've told you all, y'all are gonna be in your
need you guys, we are like, we don't take Elsie
(22:42):
give us. Finally we broke. We made it to the
next round where going to the semifinals, and then it's unreal.
It's very sad, it's so happy. We can't remember was
the last time St. Mary's advanced two teams in this
(23:05):
competition to the next round and a live competition. But
the last time that we had two teams advance, especially
the gauntlet that we went through, it's pretty amazing. So
hopefully we're not done today when they're out of the van,
they weren't going to lose and they did exactly what
(23:26):
they needed to do against superb teams. So I'm I'm
ecstatic right now. But it's not good enough business Spensis
two thousand eight. Since we made it to the nationals,
we need them, we need them to do it. So
I am patiously optimistic Colors. So here's the here's the
(23:51):
thing tomorrow. When you go in now, it's for real.
You lay it all out there because the one thing
you don't want to go back and set I put
it down more and at I was tired, which I'm
worried about that I'm waking up tomorrow and saying, oh
my god, we're facing Baylor. Faylor is the best tile
(24:12):
at program in the coat. They really are facing that.
There's a big he can't get to the dashing A
Championship without getting there there, so it's gonna be hard.
It's gonna be a hard day. They can do their
best and it's still not like so we're going back
(24:37):
to the hotel. The team piles into the van and
heads back to the hotel and he calls a team
meeting in her room. Jasmine's already in her pj's and
fuzzy slippers. Wait can I I say the first thing?
Oh yeah, sure, leave the meeting cup. What can we
do to better the rally had this morning? Because it
(24:59):
was a good round, but we need to be great Jasmine, Yeah,
like today I was better than that. You were great
and you're just like you're on it. Next level of
that is like, yeah, Baylor's tomorrow. I don't think like
we should get really psyched out about it because like
I'm not. We did it today and like we did
it today, call you eat pre trial. If you don't
(25:19):
crying help, sorry, you have no You have to assert
your you're the anchor. You have to assert your dominance
from the beginning. It's your time, it's your clock, it's
your room, it's your trial to your case like tomorrow
it's Baylor, so like, read the room, read the witness,
read the judge, and apply your cross accordingly. But even
(25:40):
if it has to be a stop cross, like we're
actually your job is done by noon, Jasmine. Think about
that afternoon You're like, I just need to get it
to you, and I'm good once we get But most
likely they're gonna start to brass. There's no way they
gave St. Mary's two defenses and the semifinal around and
they're not gonna like it's weird. It's maybe years of
(26:02):
my issues. I don't feel like Jesus, you screamed to
everybody loved me, I scream don't. I don't want you
to love me people. That's what it is. There's some
deepness there, all right, I appreciate it. What do you think? Cool?
How are you feeling? Yeah? Cool? You actually have done
(26:23):
the most work ever, Like you've been astrative gangster g
every round it's gonna do it again to wall Yeah,
he said, you are the glue to this team. You
are the glue to this team without you. Jasmine's so
we're talking about what's good at dinner. Yeah, bad, it's bad,
Like you make us better. Dad was in the Marines
(26:46):
a few years before I was born. My mom's father,
he was in the Air Force. Military is just something
I sort of grew up interested in. People watch whatever
TV shows, reality shows or whatever. I'd be watching some
military very documentary or some something like that just because
that's what I found interesting. So my dad, he's all
(27:07):
for Joint Military, very supportive of it. My biological father
is the same way. He's put me in contact with
people that he knows that were former JAG to talk
to them and learn more about the program. My mom
isn't as thrilled about it, that motherly protection kind of thing. Um.
She thought the JAG was a civilian thing where they
just work for the military. She didn't realize it was
actual military. So if I did JAG, it would be
(27:29):
basic training, should be officer kind of get school after
that and then JAG training. A lot of attorneys, um,
a lot of law students at least they need to
be in charge, which is an inherently bad thing. But
if you don't take orders from other people, well then
military avacene isn't gonna be good for you. Some people
can be commanded, some people can't. Um. Some people can
(27:52):
step into leadership shoes. Some people can't. It's just the
way it is. I think I can um, and hopefully
the military agrees. Morning. Andy and I had some good
conversations this morning, just about the rounds and not like
(28:12):
us as people. I guess too, so I feel like
we got for any de bunds of times, just like
you're not doing myself. You know. Andy's advice is like,
don't try anything somebody or not. Basically, I'm not gonna
get intimidated by case law. I'm not gonna get intimidated
man in hell. Yeah today I am or don't accept
(28:45):
any of presses that they give. Do tell me your
little three things. The law tries to codify equity. You're
herd to argument strong. It should not be over like
come by anything because Corea never ever gen You told
(29:07):
me a record of me again please time I have.
I'm not just get up, as coaches told me. The
thing about me, is I have like a I think
he said sweet disposition, Like I'm yeah, I go up
(29:28):
there and I'm like sweet and everything or not sweet,
but like I don't seem all aggressive, but then when
it comes down to it, I can do it. The
thing about that I love about the law is that
the purpose is to obviously keep the community safe, but
also to uphold justice and fairness. But I personally, I
do know attorneys who are like that. They don't care
(29:51):
about their clients, not one bit at all. I want
to be a difference, Like if somebody were to hire
me instead of this other attorney, that could like actually,
you know, affect their case. I don't know what my
purpose is, like we're all finding it out every day,
but I think one of my purposes has got to
be to make the world a better place. Has got
(30:12):
to be to change lives, because one attorney could really
change a life. Okay, I just don't think you I
shouldn't remind you that we beat the girl invest in Texas.
I know, because the two girls does. Um yeah, so
(30:35):
you'll know where to stand, you know where to do?
You know all this stuff. This is fun. I mean,
it's you know, it's stressful, but it's fun. I mean,
then you know, all we can prepare you for us
to break because once you're in the break grounds, you're
always going to get to school. That's as good as
you are. It doesn't matter who the advocates are. You
all understand the program. You watched it all yesterday, so
you all went through it yesterday. So it's only about
(30:58):
what your little thing that are happening, and who your
judges are, and so it's just there's so many variables
that right now we're just all hanging on for the ride,
and you gotta win to break the The whole idea
is is that the person who has calmist, the team,
who is most professional and the most calm, is going
(31:20):
to be the one who wins. The one who confidently
goes through and does what they're doing, it's gonna be
the one that wins. You got it, I got it. Yeah,
you're right, you you young. It's just style. Whatever feels
right in that moment, Like we could tell you like yeah,
maybe just give it to the helps me first. It's
like it's really gonna like speak for a strike for
(31:40):
a strike car like numerosy do not between that gum
I'm about getting it all out. Oh my gosh, are
h oh, Good morning everybody. So this is gonna be
(32:03):
a good case. This is going to be a good
opportunity for all of you advocates. I hear great things
about you. So my bailiff got fired because of bad attitude.
So do we have somebody to keep time for us? Andy,
who's kind of losing it at this point because she's
dying to compete volunteers. I don't have to be time
(32:25):
for us? Is that all right? So I have a
new beata find it the last and only lasted three days.
Apparently I'm a tyrant. Andy takes a seat in the
jury box. It's the perfect spot to keep an eye
on her teammates. Eventually, you did call the narcotics unit.
I did because you had a dream that maybe one
(32:48):
day I could move from being a patrol officer to
the narcotics unit. Yes, Jasmine has kind of come into herself,
and I think at the beginning she was very quiet
and not sure of herself, and she has improved like
leaps about. She's way better right now than she has
ever better to person. Timmy lied because he was a
(33:09):
victim of the system. But the state has based their
entire case on these lies. If the detective on scene
doesn't do their job, who else is supposed to. That's
on the detective, that's on the state to investigate properly.
That is not the country that we live in today.
(33:35):
All four of you, just your movements were good. You
anchored you, you were repetition, you used each other's themes
against each other. All of that was good. Um, so again,
congratulations on getting this far. It was very tough to judge.
You know, there's gotta be a winner and I gotta
be a loser. And I can already tell you that
there's a difference as to very small percentage as to
(33:57):
who won and who lost. All four of you one
so jee fast. I was trying to smile, but I
can't be making faces at you with them watching him.
(34:18):
And I was just like it, no, I just can't be.
I can't be like, I can't. I couldn't feel it.
You need to face And I was like no, I
was trying to like help my weight to cry, like
I'm trying I was. I was like, I was like,
I can't react to this, how do you feel? So
I feel like I stumbled in emotions and like its
(34:39):
just you did sure. I have no idea vomit, do
you have any idea? I'm gonna barth. I don't know.
I thought I thought Presiding was with you the whole time,
even though he was like overrule and stuff, like he
was like he got a little gleam in his eyes,
especially like when Cole was got people look, judges look cool,
especially presiding, um, just because he's he's just he has
(35:03):
that thing you want. You believe him, You believe him.
I don't know if the judges liked it or not.
You know, you can't really tell by just comments alone. Right,
Sometimes the judge will crap on your team and just
criticize you. And then you found out that they had
you winning by thirty points, So you don't You don't
know until we get the ballots back. Like you killed
them with kindness exactly like we talked about and like
(35:23):
that's really powerful. And for them, yeah, they were, they
were trying to bully us. But the sun came out.
And that's what I'm working with because I did manifest
that for today. I didn't look at the weather forecast. Um,
So I mean there's a chance there's there's a chance.
I yeah, And if there's a chance, and we knocked
out Baylor, we're gonna have a food. We did the
best you think, Yes, how did you feel? I feel like, well,
(35:45):
I'm gonna right again. I feel like maybe I disappointed everybody, know,
just because emotionally I caught tongue title and know you
did it. You were called. They were like, and you
were like your honor, like you were you were good.
It seemed like, no, you don't seem shaky. You were calm,
(36:06):
because the whole entire time you were like and you smiled,
you went up there, You're like, okay, let's talk about it.
I was like, we're killing them with logic today. Okay, okay,
And that was great, Okay, okay, good, We're good right there.
You're like, you know, my heart, my heart is in
(36:28):
my whause, my stomach is in my heart. I don't
know that. Yeah, all right, just come up. We're here,
all right, um, all right, everybody, some very very well
(36:50):
thought battles. We are super proud of every water. Be
all please. It's always hard because every time you advanced,
somebody's got to go home. And in this instance, obviously
four teams have to go home and for moving on
to the finals. These are the teams that are moving
on into the finals in their two final rounds. In
the two ninety five on prosecution, it will be Team
(37:11):
three forty nine Baylor versus Team three forty six South
Texas College of Law Onto. In the three thirty third Courtroom,
Team one seventy six Texas will go prosecution against Team
one sixty three St. Mary's congratulations to all of you.
(37:38):
For those of you who do not advance, y'all want
a six pack of beer? Seriously, we got tons. He's
already like, I already got one. I ain't competing today.
So they said Texas, What should they say Texas too?
I don't remember. I just heard Texas. I blacked out
after they said you weren't prosecution? I did too. It
(38:00):
sounds like we have to be cold. Did they say
Texas to or Texas one? It's probably the Texas were
the guy one best prosecutor, probably because he was Texas.
He was Houth Texas. I was Texas. Is it a
coin toss on what side we go most defense? It
has to do with the meetings, the pairings, and where
(38:21):
we It's an automatic flip said, it had nothing to
do with us. It had to do with that. You
had to do with where they work. So we are going.
I think it's ut. I'm not sure how the bracket
ends up works, but that's what we're doing now. I've
going in exsecution, were on defense, and UT School of
Law is like one of the best in the country. Overall.
(38:42):
I don't care that i'd be Baylor. I need to
beat these guys. I know, I was wondering about y'all.
I was like, oh man, you must be like, are
you chomping at the bits? I like, I'm just like,
I was so happy that we were advancing that I
didn't care, you know, because it ansing is advancing. But yeah,
I mean, like it's hard. You're like fighting the feeling
(39:05):
of like I'm not crying, like that's the super Bowl
and I got benched and it wasn't even my choice,
and it wasn't my coach and it wasn't my teammates.
That's just how the cookie crumbled. Um. I mean, like,
you know, I'm proud of us no matter what, but
a little bit. But it's hard. It's hard, all right.
(39:37):
Three o eight in session, the honor Borial Open deciding
a good afternoon, your honor. My name is Augustus Talkington,
along with my coke council Nicholas Lowry Uh. It is
our privileged to represent the state of a Lone start today.
Good afternoon, your honor. My name is Jasmine Old Gene.
That is O. L G U I N and I
(40:00):
on with my co counseling the afternoon, y honor of
My name is Cole C L E D A V
I L A. We represent the defendant, Mr Timney Williams.
It's Sunday. All of the other regional tournaments in the
country have been decided. All eyes are on Texas. Both
(40:20):
teams are exhausted, none more than Cole, who has argued
this case five times already. The courtroom is packed, spectators,
alumni and parents all are leading in. Only one of
the teams in this courtroom will get an automatic bid
to the national championship. To that members of the jury today,
(40:42):
the evidence will show that the defendant owned illegal drugs.
More than this, he intended to deliver those illegal drugs
into this very community. While opposing counsels making their opening statements,
while I am making mine during all the way, this
is all of the evidence during closing arguments and even
(41:05):
while you were deliberating. Timmy Williams is presumed to be innocent.
It's not supposed to be easy to convict somebody, because
we do not want the police and the government to
simply take the easy way out and grab the first
person they saw that day. Question that the defense is
(41:26):
going to ask you is who lived in that apartment? Now,
we as this state will show that the defendant lived
in that apartment. Now the defense is gonna come up
here and they're gonna tell you a story about how
the defendant's brother and his wife and kids lived in
that apartment. But ask yourself, does this story makes sense?
Now you see, you're gonna hear from enter Perez that
(41:49):
they took those two bags of cocaine from that night stand,
walked them downstairs, found some scales, placed them on the scales,
lined up the shot, and took photographs. One of your
rules as a patrol officer is to give out traffic tickets.
You don't investigate scenes that involved narcotics. You're not trained
(42:10):
to handle narcotics. You became excited when you saw that cocaine. Yeah, absolutely,
I mean, I'm doing my job. This is what I
signed up for. You lie to the police to get
out of trouble. There, big jection, your honor. This has
been asked and answered. I'll ask the question again. You
lied to the police to get into trouble using your
brother's license. That is correct. My objection. You're saying for
(42:33):
the statements of the officers station asking answer sustainable objection,
ask and answered. You know, and they're doing it like
they're coming out and executing. And that's all I can ask,
you know, just don't don't sit down and sweat and
you know, pass out. Have you ever loved your team
so much that you can't even watch them in the
biggest game of the season, but you keep checking the
(42:56):
score anyway? Well, that's Jason Goff. He's pacing up and
down the hallway. He quietly slips into the back of
the courtroom, gets anxious, comes back out, sits down, stands up,
starts pacing again. That such astmas Cross. I thought it
was great should really good jobs sayed really cool? Um,
(43:17):
which is important. Um. If Cole held his own an opening,
then you know the closing. You know, if it's close,
the closing will decide. It may please the court Council,
Members of the jury. Timmy Williams was found with two
(43:40):
and a half grands of cocaine and all of his
supplies for delivering that cocaine right into this community, and
instead of accepting the fact that he was caught, he lied.
And as I walked through each of these elements, I
will discuss what those words mean, but just remember that
it simply breaks down into presence of the cocaine, possession
(44:03):
of the cocaine, and intend to deliver the cocaine. Objection,
your honor, This is a misstatement of the law. It's
not presence that was established this element. The element is
just possession, which is actual care, custody, and control, not
just presence. As posting counsel has stated two times already.
As just rephrase, Council to keep going, I find maybe
(44:27):
you heard. Okay. You can either do what is right
what is easy. The state did what was easy. The
members of the jury today, we're asking you to do
what is right. This failure to investigate who actually live there,
(44:50):
this manipulation of the evidence that's not beyond a reasonable doubt,
the state has not met their burden today. We're asking
you to you what is right. And when you see
this verdict form, we asked that you find Timmy Williams
not guilty. Anything further from either side, No, your honor,
(45:16):
all right, jury charge has been submitted to the jury.
Court is in recess while they deliberate. Sure, if it
is my last rounds, then it's my last round. It's not.
It's not either way. I have to do the best
I can write, finish out on a high note or
a strong note, or you know, do do nothing and
then guarantee to be finished. But I know that my
(45:38):
future is going to be doing this for real. So
it's and a mock trial, but it's going to be
the start of real trial. It was good, It was
It was a fun round. I learned for my mistakes
yesterday and I really did like go in here thinking
this is the last round I could ever do for
mock trial, Like there's right here and I knew that.
(46:01):
I was like, I have to give it my all.
That's awesome. Absolutely, congratulations. You guys are ratest experience. You
guys are stuff amazing, amazing, great performance out of the side.
(46:22):
You're better than nine percent of the lawyers that appear
that I am. I am very encouraged about the future.
The good guardians of the Seventh Amendment because it's under attack,
so be very good guardians of that. Preserve that right
to the jury in this country because people are trying
to erode. We're leaving your hands protected. We're leaving it
(46:49):
in your hands. Yeah, te Yeah, they say, Mary's Texas. Yes,
yourself called, yes, failer, Yes, wonderful, delightful. Congratulations you guys
(47:11):
you made to the very end. And I can't tell
you how thrilled I am that we are done, but
NEEDS say I am tremendously proud of all of you.
The rounds you did, the work you did. I know
you guys have worked so freaking hard to get to
this moment where two of y'all will be going to
see it for it worth. In April, in the round
(47:34):
of three forty nine Baylor versus three forty six South
Texas College of Law, there's going to be three six
South Texas talk again. Uh. In the round of one
seventy six versus one sixty three, the winner was six
(48:09):
eraduate absolutely great. We can congratulating, go up and done
as well. Resolutions represent us. I mean, they were good,
they were something they deserve to be there. They deserve
(48:30):
to be in the final, they deserve to represent us
in national So you would have too. Y'all are gladiators,
and y'all got in there, I mean killed it. And
at the end of the day, I mean, they just
had a team that didn't make mistakes. Really, you know
they did, they were just you know, yeah, I knew
we were working on I know, I know what happened,
(48:52):
But I think you're an idiot if you don't know
what happened. Oh, no, fantastic, right, And we always said
that the road of the championship goes through Veylor, and
we did that and it was a real emotional high.
(49:14):
And we didn't help them get ready for that next one.
We didn't separate the two because you saw some mistakes
immediately that you hadn't seen all weekend except for the
first round. They were still good, they were still competitive,
and it's only a couple of point difference between the ballots.
(49:39):
But I think the emotional high of one making the
break and then two, you know, beating the number two
team in the country and a team that has dominated
this region for twelve years, it wasn't It was a
real emotional high, and I really thought that we were
(50:04):
you know, that's you know, don't count your chickens, right, um.
And then I was watching it on the simulcas and
I realized that there's we just can't. God, I wanted
to win. I wanted to win for them. It's hard,
(50:32):
and it's my reaction has nothing to do with my teammates.
It's just really hard. It's just like how they cookie crumbled.
You know. I don't understand how we lost to them.
I need to talk to like coach, like what happened?
(50:52):
What went wrong? I think that was probably my most
rout of this tournament. I don't know, kept it up
for all these rounds and then slipt. Yeah, that's gonna
I'll be something that haunts at me for a while.
You're a better swing than I could ever be learned
(51:15):
at all from you. I'm glad to have made it
back on the team. It's such a good captain. No
one else could do it like you. I never forget that.
I'll always be grateful. Always stop. I'm already crying. Cool, Yeah,
but some things need to be said. Thanks. Of course,
(51:39):
that's what friends are for. I am in your abilities.
(52:03):
Could always be sad right now? Are you treeting us?
Of course? I mean I I think that's cruel to
the humane enough. You know what in fetus when we left,
do we have a head count as everyone in the bay,
(52:27):
we got six advocates, Kristen, seat belts please head all right? Okay,
you took down the bear, you took down the king.
That's awesome, that is completely awesome. Um, and I mean god,
(52:48):
you cannot have been closer, just could not have been closer. Um,
I think, um, I think you guys should hold your
Head's really odd. A j drives the team. Hope it's
quiet in the van this time. There isn't the chatting,
(53:10):
the phone calls, the joking around for the three ls.
The mock trill season is ending. They'll move on to
finish classes, take the bar exam, get jobs. They've just
gone through an amazing weekend with the highest levels of achievement,
a lot of surprises, and a heartbreak at the end.
But through it all it's forged even stronger bonds between them.
(53:33):
Almost more than anything else. The story of the St.
Barry's Mock Trial team, it's a story of friendship. All right,
Here we go again, can't wait to get back all
the ruin again. Love is making music. Um the show.
(53:56):
I'll do the background. You know when we're we're in
the core house. You were inquired. That's a conversation for
another day. Look, you need to hear about it that sort.
(54:29):
You ever feel like you've been in a boxing match
with the person that taught you how to box, It's
like not, it's yeah, I mean it's a lot. It's
kind of like going against a child or something where
you know you're proud of him, but you're also trying
to beat him. Um, and I do want to be
them because I think it's justice from my client. That's
next time on Class Action. Last Action is a production
(54:52):
of I Heart Radio and Sound Argument. Created, produced, written,
and edited by Kevin Huffman and Lisa Gray. Additional story
production by Jennifer Swan, Kristen Cabrera, Jason Foster, and Wendy Nardi.
Executive producers are Taylor Chacogne and Katrina Norvelle. Sound design,
(55:15):
editing and mixing by Evan Tyre and Taylor Chacogne. This
episode had additional field production by Kristin Cabrera and Alfredo
de la Garza. For more podcasts from I heart Radio,
visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you get your favorite shows.
Class Action is a production of I Heart Radio and
Sound argument. All right, my little sister, bringers and hands,
but we don't have Jack Jasmine. Where is she? Where
is she? Jackbreaking stuff? Wait? Wait wait wait missing Jasmine?
(00:21):
Wait we're missing Jasmine. No, Hi, where are you? He's cold?
He's in short tease driving Yeah yeah, yeah, like he
was driving right now? Remember the rule relieving it? Okay,
she said she's walking out a row. Tell her, Tell
her not to her. She said, he said, you have
(00:41):
to run. No, don't do that to her. I'm just kidding.
I'm just kidding. Oh. There she is. She's in she's
me on blue gaster. She's in a full on track suit.
She was met in the medical school. Away. Hello everyone, yes,
(01:06):
all right, here we go road again. Don't wait to
get back all the ruin again? Everybody good? I love
is making music. But I should go to karaoke. Well now,
but I'm so sorry what I'm Jasmine's just mad because
(01:28):
she doesn't understand I don't have it, so when it
comes in, it's just it was my first time. M hm.
So right now, I have no idea where we are.
I just woke up from a now, but we're on
are we Houston and we stopped at of Buckey's classic
(01:50):
must must do in Texas. Apparently they have the best
convenience store barbecue sandwiches in the state. But it's it's
just miserable outside. I mean it is grey, a like
I've never seen Texas be gray before. But we are
moving in root into Houston. Jasmine brought like seven different
albums jackets, Dude, it was at least four weeks that
(02:16):
leather coat completely say for one night you brought that coach, Jasmine,
because you will be Jack Barrow on us. I'm watching
the news. Chernobyl just fell to the Russians. So that's fun.
Chernobyl the side of the nuclear disaster. The Russians just
(02:38):
took it. Okay, so they're still moving south. This is
that entrance Chernobyl. Yeah, they took Chernobyl. You know the
energy in this van. Don't ask me that because I'm
bling this stuff right now. Lanes left East Wen days ago,
(03:04):
still in their frosties. The frosty, their frosties, Yeah, what good?
The little one thing on this big Yeah, Like, why
would you ever get a frosty when you can just
get a bluezard. I did I like frost after the
(03:33):
disappointing loss at the Best of Texas competition. So we
lost that round. We lost that round two to one.
You do. The St. Mary's Trial team. It's back together,
only this time without Mariella, and they're on route to
the highest stakes tournament of the year, the regional bracket
(03:55):
of the National Trial Competition. Eleven schools start out on Friday,
but only two will survive and advance to Nationals on Sunday.
By that time, for everyone else, the season will be over.
And while this isn't the first rodeo for St. Mary's,
it is the first time they'll be competing live this season.
(04:19):
Welcome to the Harris County Civil Court House. Oh you
should know about the trip to the room is where
they're always going to be. How all coffee in the
northern room. It's gonna be lunch as well. The law
(04:41):
students are all dressed up for a swanky happy hour
that's on the docket for tonight. The only table available
to St. Mary's, though, smack dab in the center of
the room where all of the other teams can check
them out. Okay, Judge Christine Weans, the competition host, leaves
(05:05):
the students to fend for themselves. She pulls all of
the coaches into a conference room to sort out the
rules and to draw off the matchups. So we do
a four round prelim just because I hate three round prelimbs.
I'm very bitter. I did I got well. I got
on the losing end of a three round free limb
in law school like twenty five years ago, and I
still hold a grudge about it. So that back in
(05:30):
the main room, it's awkward. The St. Mary's team tries
to act cool. It's unique, just to help you like
and then sate your words before you speak. She does red,
leather yellow. There's a lot of side eye glances, silent judgments,
(05:50):
and forced small talk, except from cold. If you hacked
into a nuclear reactor, you could scram the reactor, which
shuts down the plant, cutting off power. That's very good
for the civilians. Like that are easy when everything's going good,
and then it goes bad. But these are competitors and
they are on high alert for any smack talk from
(06:13):
the other schools, especially from their arch nemesis, Baylor University.
My name is Christopher Grant. I am the young Padawan
to the Jedi Master, Chris Ruise, Christopher Ruise. This is
my fourth tournament on Baffa Baylor. I competed an undergrad,
so I've been reprobailor for seven years now. It's a
(06:33):
great experience. UM really enjoy it and looking forward to
the tournament. An hour goes by and the coaches, well,
they're oblivious to what their suffering students are going through.
You can't do that, you can't play one six, And
everyone that one I know verses that, Yes, I feel
(06:57):
like it'sn consensus is that we are a little bit
just like a tiny it's starving star. How long how
you guys left for the coaches conference? And we thought
like that was the happy hour, so we were like,
bring on the tapas and no, no tapas. Okay, that's
the opening around. I'll put on this on the website.
(07:18):
It's late, it's freezing and it's raining. The top us
and the fashionable cocktails at the happy hour are going
to waste this whole let's get together and bond with
your fellow law student thing. Well, it's a total bust.
I mean the other option is that you'll just go
back to the hotel now and get literally, I prefer that.
(07:40):
I just yeah, I mean we can, we can, I
mean we could do that. I gotta go with happy
Arab and y'all you can go back. There was teams
that didn't even show up to the this is episode
ten of Class Action. Any given Sunday, the excitement level
for them is just huge and it just makes all
(08:01):
of our hearts grow and it's why we do this.
It's extremely fast paced once you're in the competition. Breach
are Vino and Ashley Emil oversee the national competition for
the Texas Young Lawyers Association. There's not a lot of
time to think once you're in it. You just have
to do what you know that you need to do
(08:24):
and move forward. I think the competition setting is important
for them to understand how to be good trial lawyers
when the stakes are high, when there's the pressure on,
when there's the stress to it. As well. This morning,
I will go befoward and was dressing. I couldn't I
couldn't go back to bed, and I was like, oh
my gosh, I'm gonna pass out, like I'm not sleeping
(08:45):
enough and I have to go two rounds, Like what
if that happens? And then Andy woke up finally, and
I'm like Andy just like no, no, we're switching. And
I was like, okay, So my main job is just
to make sure all those cats are heard it at
the beginning, make sure they're on coach. Jason Goss comes
across like a good old boy, but just below the surface,
(09:06):
he's hell bent on a trophy. Jason was the star
attorney on the last Saint Mary's team to make it
to Nationals way back in two thousand. How a killer.
How need road every time because if you don't, which
(09:27):
would be the last one problem did you ever do?
When you're up everything rightes on this weekend, you gotta
kill him. South Texas is very good. I mean they're
just they're always very good. Same Mary's always goes against
South Texas and Taylor always every year since I've been here,
(09:49):
every year, and it's always hard and that's good and
if you beat him, you feel really good. Going both ways,
some of the facts start to blur a little bit together,
especially since some of the initial stuff and openings and
crosses and directs kind of are similar questions, So it
would throw me off. So I saw that I had
two ties that are kind of similar in design. So
(10:11):
in side of gold is defense. I've always been told
red is a prosecution color, So I think blue is
a proper because we're good guys. Well, red red as
prosecution for me. So that's how I keep it straight,
all right. Uh? Calling to order Cause number one eight
(10:33):
three three three the State of lone Star versus Timmy Williams. Uh,
we're on the record. Does the state have any emotions? Yes,
your honor. By way of background, the defendant in today's case,
Timmy Williams, is being charged with possession of the controlled
substance with the intent to deliver. Now, the defendant was
(10:56):
found in apartment number one along with cocaine and other
associated drug paraphernalia. Now the apartment in question is listed
under Tommy Williams, who's the defendant's brother. Yes, your honor,
we are here today on a possession of a controlled
substance with intent to deliver. That controlled substance being cocaine.
(11:20):
A key issue in today's case is who had actual care,
custody and control. It will be our defense that Tommy
Williams was the one who had actual care, custody and control.
That's an officer Perez took the drugs from upstairs, walked
them downstairs to a table where there was a scale.
So he took the cocaine from upstairs, brought it downstairs,
(11:43):
placed it on this scale, and then took the photograph.
Um it would be misleading the jury as it was
manipulated in stage for this photograph to be taken. After
months on Zoo, Jasmine finally has the opportunit unity to
take advantage of the dynamics of a real courtroom. I
(12:04):
may I approach the witness. Cole who's normally pretty shy,
can finally lead those I want to talk about that scale.
Do you see that skill there? Yes, you didn't check
that scale for fingerprints? Did you know you didn't check
that scale for cocaine? And of course Jasmine can have
her hair just right, her nails flawless, as she likes
(12:28):
to say. Everyone is making eye contact with the witness,
the judge, and the other team. It's a revelation. It
was the perfect example of delivery because it was manipulated
in many ways. The defense case, it's juicier. They can
argue that investigators rushed to judgment, that they staged the evidence.
(12:51):
They didn't even read Timmy Williams is Miranda Lets. You
didn't talk to anybody that day? Did you know? I
did not? You didn't talk to anyone there any other time,
did you. No prosecution is supposed to keep us safe.
Where it's these supposed to keep the government in check.
You have to keep the bad cops in check, and
you have to hammer them hard. You didn't talk to
(13:14):
the landlord of that apartment comp You never tried to
examine a lease agreements. You never tried to verify who
actually owned apartment one two three, did you? So there's
this weird dynamic. You know, it sounds bad making an
example because you don't want to go too far, but
you also don't want to you know, convicts in the
court of public opinion the copy did nothing wrong, but
(13:35):
you might have to imply that they did something wrong
in order to serve your client. So you can either
choose to do what is right or what is easy,
and the state has chosen to do what is easy.
Members the jury, we're asking you to do what is
right when you see that verdict form to find Mr
(13:55):
Williams not guilty. Thank you cancers. At this point we're
going to submit the matter to the jury. Uh and
so we are in recess until that point off the record,
all right, So I mean I feel good about them.
(14:16):
You know, we'll just kind of see. It's gonna be
interesting because if they do well in these first two rounds,
are gonna be going against the best and the third
and fourth and everybody's gonna knocking each other down. So
that's that's a good thing. It's a surprisingly good first
day for the St. Mary's team. They win this round
(14:38):
as well as the next, with Andy wearing her prosecutor's hat,
ripping apart the key witness for the defense. Yes, Mr Williams,
according to you, the scales and the scale and this
photo isn't yours. It is not according to you, the
straws aren't yours. According to you, the little baggies aren't yours.
(14:59):
And according to you, the coke Hayne isn't yours. And
according to you, you're Tommy Williams. Right. Not according to me,
on Timmy Williams. But that's not what you told the
police on the day that you were arrested. That's accurate
for the questions at this time. Oh okay, I'm sorry.
I'm still waiting to hear from this round in this
round to find out who the presiding judges. But I
know Bill Ford's praying dudge guy saw him on the
(15:19):
bench in that one. Okay, It's the second day of
the regional tournament and head coach A. J. Blito de
Luna is volunteering to help judge Weems with the scoring system.
It's a complex job and something he's done throughout his
career in the trial advocacy world. AJ maintains his neutrality,
(15:40):
but he can't help but be excited at how well
his team is too. Are our St. Mary's two team
of Team one sixty three. They're the ones that just
swept that last round. They're facing the Baylor team, um,
which is happens to be in the first place. We
have a tough match up, but this is where this
(16:02):
is where we're supposed to be. You want to be
in the arena with the big boys, right with the
big teams. That's that's where you want to be. You
want to be playing against the best players. And the
fact that they you know, they came out of the basement,
so there's a lot more about their character. I really
really just hope that we like break this fake curse.
(16:25):
That everyone is talking, you know, like we just haven't
we haven't, we haven't advanced in so long, Like I
really just want to be the team that does it.
It's time. We've waited long enough and we know that
we got it, So we just got to do it
for Andy, Jasmine and Cole. Their entire season is on
the line. Ye was a council Thanks a gentleman the jury,
(16:51):
Please the court. Two wrongs don't make a right. Three
lies don't make a truth. And this trial, Mike Ho
counsel is gonna come before you, Miss Andy Viscotta. She's
gonna go through all of the evidence that you saw
today and you're gonna see the wrongs of the defendant
and the lies of the defendant don't make it true.
(17:13):
She's gonna show you how we have met our burden
of proof, and she will ask you to find the defendant,
Timmy Williams guilty. Baylor is not fooling around. They bring
in their a team, may please the court. My name
is Christopher Crant and I'm proud to be here representing
(17:35):
Timmy Williams. Just a moment ago, the state came before
you and they spent most of their time talking about
the fact that Timmy Williams. Well, they're gonna tell you
over and over and over and over again that he's
a liar. He's a liar. You shouldn't trust him checking
(17:56):
your honor. Apologize. But this is getting into signific me
argument in the territory of hope existence in general, I try.
I am a fairly quiet person, keep to myself, and
I don't confront people here. To me, it makes sense
for me to be a little more snippy and a
little more aggressive. You give me an assignment, I do it.
(18:20):
Maybe it's because it's Baylor, or maybe it's the pressure
or the threat of elimination, but it's obvious these lawyers
really don't like each other. The mascot for Baylor is
the bear for St. Mary's. It's the rattlesnake. Mr Williams.
How many times would you say that you lied to
law enforcement on the day that you were arrested. Mr Williams,
(18:42):
you told that the law enforcement that day that you
were talking about doing that. You're also throwing your brother
under the bus. So the truth is, throughout the entire
course of your investigation, you found no evidence Timmy Williams
ever received any payment in exchange for drugs. I found
(19:02):
no money. Correct, you found no evidence Timmy Williams communicated
with anyone whatsoever to buy or sell two pieces of
key evidence with your bare hands. So, Officer pres you
staged this photograph. I disagree with that. In stage and
(19:24):
gentlemen of the jury, we learned today that when Timmy
Williams is back is against the wall, what he does
his lie. Today, you have the power to deliver a
verdict based on the truth. I asked that you find
the defendant guilty today. May it please the court? It
is a scary society for us to live in, to
(19:45):
think that you can visit somebody's house and because that
somebody else has something incriminating upstairs, you could be found guilty.
He had nothing to hide, That's what they told you.
If you had nothing to hide, why lie? If you
(20:06):
had nothing to hide, why would you ask how do
I get out of these charges? Why not say? Wait? WHOA,
this has gone too far. I'm not Tommy, I'm Timmy.
Those aren't my drugs objection. I'm sorry to interrupt. I
asked that to be stricken, let's move if he had
(20:26):
nothing to hide. While Andy, your style is great, I knew.
I knew from your face you didn't like my original
ruling on on the conversation. No, I mean, it's fine,
and it's okay to be disappointed, right, it's fine. But
I like the way you came back, and you came
(20:47):
back in a very respectful way, and you had new evidence.
Uh Andy, gosh, you're such a good advocate. Cole. Also, man, y'all,
both of you guys are the team super professionals. Christopher,
you are an excellent storyteller. Danielle really good. You're a
(21:10):
really good listener. But maybe don't get too aggressive right
off the back. God, alright, so the part that you
care about, you know, the teams that are advancing in
the semifinals for Regent ten, then the three thirty third
on prosecution will be Team three fifty Baylor two. Okay,
(21:38):
first team one sixty three, say Eric. And then the
last team in the semifinal round will be in the
team three forty nine Baylor one. Persis Team one six
(22:00):
Saint Mary. Y'all broke, I'm sure y'all have work to
do for the rest of you. Didn't break. We thank
you so much for coming there. Help because you need
(22:21):
crete she's a much No, I'm happy, proud of all.
I've told you all, y'all are gonna be in your
need you guys, we are like, we don't take Elsie
(22:42):
give us. Finally we broke. We made it to the
next round where going to the semifinals, and then it's unreal.
It's very sad, it's so happy. We can't remember was
the last time St. Mary's advanced two teams in this
(23:05):
competition to the next round and a live competition. But
the last time that we had two teams advance, especially
the gauntlet that we went through, it's pretty amazing. So
hopefully we're not done today when they're out of the van,
they weren't going to lose and they did exactly what
(23:26):
they needed to do against superb teams. So I'm I'm
ecstatic right now. But it's not good enough business Spensis
two thousand eight. Since we made it to the nationals,
we need them, we need them to do it. So
I am patiously optimistic Colors. So here's the here's the
(23:51):
thing tomorrow. When you go in now, it's for real.
You lay it all out there because the one thing
you don't want to go back and set I put
it down more and at I was tired, which I'm
worried about that I'm waking up tomorrow and saying, oh
my god, we're facing Baylor. Faylor is the best tile
(24:12):
at program in the coat. They really are facing that.
There's a big he can't get to the dashing A
Championship without getting there there, so it's gonna be hard.
It's gonna be a hard day. They can do their
best and it's still not like so we're going back
(24:37):
to the hotel. The team piles into the van and
heads back to the hotel and he calls a team
meeting in her room. Jasmine's already in her pj's and
fuzzy slippers. Wait can I I say the first thing?
Oh yeah, sure, leave the meeting cup. What can we
do to better the rally had this morning? Because it
(24:59):
was a good round, but we need to be great Jasmine, Yeah,
like today I was better than that. You were great
and you're just like you're on it. Next level of
that is like, yeah, Baylor's tomorrow. I don't think like
we should get really psyched out about it because like
I'm not. We did it today and like we did
it today, call you eat pre trial. If you don't
(25:19):
crying help, sorry, you have no You have to assert
your you're the anchor. You have to assert your dominance
from the beginning. It's your time, it's your clock, it's
your room, it's your trial to your case like tomorrow
it's Baylor, so like, read the room, read the witness,
read the judge, and apply your cross accordingly. But even
(25:40):
if it has to be a stop cross, like we're
actually your job is done by noon, Jasmine. Think about
that afternoon You're like, I just need to get it
to you, and I'm good once we get But most
likely they're gonna start to brass. There's no way they
gave St. Mary's two defenses and the semifinal around and
they're not gonna like it's weird. It's maybe years of
(26:02):
my issues. I don't feel like Jesus, you screamed to
everybody loved me, I scream don't. I don't want you
to love me people. That's what it is. There's some
deepness there, all right, I appreciate it. What do you think? Cool?
How are you feeling? Yeah? Cool? You actually have done
(26:23):
the most work ever, Like you've been astrative gangster g
every round it's gonna do it again to wall Yeah,
he said, you are the glue to this team. You
are the glue to this team without you. Jasmine's so
we're talking about what's good at dinner. Yeah, bad, it's bad,
Like you make us better. Dad was in the Marines
(26:46):
a few years before I was born. My mom's father,
he was in the Air Force. Military is just something
I sort of grew up interested in. People watch whatever
TV shows, reality shows or whatever. I'd be watching some
military very documentary or some something like that just because
that's what I found interesting. So my dad, he's all
(27:07):
for Joint Military, very supportive of it. My biological father
is the same way. He's put me in contact with
people that he knows that were former JAG to talk
to them and learn more about the program. My mom
isn't as thrilled about it, that motherly protection kind of thing. Um.
She thought the JAG was a civilian thing where they
just work for the military. She didn't realize it was
actual military. So if I did JAG, it would be
(27:29):
basic training, should be officer kind of get school after
that and then JAG training. A lot of attorneys, um,
a lot of law students at least they need to
be in charge, which is an inherently bad thing. But
if you don't take orders from other people, well then
military avacene isn't gonna be good for you. Some people
can be commanded, some people can't. Um. Some people can
(27:52):
step into leadership shoes. Some people can't. It's just the
way it is. I think I can um, and hopefully
the military agrees. Morning. Andy and I had some good
conversations this morning, just about the rounds and not like
(28:12):
us as people. I guess too, so I feel like
we got for any de bunds of times, just like
you're not doing myself. You know. Andy's advice is like,
don't try anything somebody or not. Basically, I'm not gonna
get intimidated by case law. I'm not gonna get intimidated
man in hell. Yeah today I am or don't accept
(28:45):
any of presses that they give. Do tell me your
little three things. The law tries to codify equity. You're
herd to argument strong. It should not be over like
come by anything because Corea never ever gen You told
(29:07):
me a record of me again please time I have.
I'm not just get up, as coaches told me. The
thing about me, is I have like a I think
he said sweet disposition, Like I'm yeah, I go up
(29:28):
there and I'm like sweet and everything or not sweet,
but like I don't seem all aggressive, but then when
it comes down to it, I can do it. The
thing about that I love about the law is that
the purpose is to obviously keep the community safe, but
also to uphold justice and fairness. But I personally, I
do know attorneys who are like that. They don't care
(29:51):
about their clients, not one bit at all. I want
to be a difference, Like if somebody were to hire
me instead of this other attorney, that could like actually,
you know, affect their case. I don't know what my
purpose is, like we're all finding it out every day,
but I think one of my purposes has got to
be to make the world a better place. Has got
(30:12):
to be to change lives, because one attorney could really
change a life. Okay, I just don't think you I
shouldn't remind you that we beat the girl invest in Texas.
I know, because the two girls does. Um yeah, so
(30:35):
you'll know where to stand, you know where to do?
You know all this stuff. This is fun. I mean,
it's you know, it's stressful, but it's fun. I mean,
then you know, all we can prepare you for us
to break because once you're in the break grounds, you're
always going to get to school. That's as good as
you are. It doesn't matter who the advocates are. You
all understand the program. You watched it all yesterday, so
you all went through it yesterday. So it's only about
(30:58):
what your little thing that are happening, and who your
judges are, and so it's just there's so many variables
that right now we're just all hanging on for the ride,
and you gotta win to break the The whole idea
is is that the person who has calmist, the team,
who is most professional and the most calm, is going
(31:20):
to be the one who wins. The one who confidently
goes through and does what they're doing, it's gonna be
the one that wins. You got it, I got it. Yeah,
you're right, you you young. It's just style. Whatever feels
right in that moment, Like we could tell you like yeah,
maybe just give it to the helps me first. It's
like it's really gonna like speak for a strike for
(31:40):
a strike car like numerosy do not between that gum
I'm about getting it all out. Oh my gosh, are
h oh, Good morning everybody. So this is gonna be
(32:03):
a good case. This is going to be a good
opportunity for all of you advocates. I hear great things
about you. So my bailiff got fired because of bad attitude.
So do we have somebody to keep time for us? Andy,
who's kind of losing it at this point because she's
dying to compete volunteers. I don't have to be time
(32:25):
for us? Is that all right? So I have a
new beata find it the last and only lasted three days.
Apparently I'm a tyrant. Andy takes a seat in the
jury box. It's the perfect spot to keep an eye
on her teammates. Eventually, you did call the narcotics unit.
I did because you had a dream that maybe one
(32:48):
day I could move from being a patrol officer to
the narcotics unit. Yes, Jasmine has kind of come into herself,
and I think at the beginning she was very quiet
and not sure of herself, and she has improved like
leaps about. She's way better right now than she has
ever better to person. Timmy lied because he was a
(33:09):
victim of the system. But the state has based their
entire case on these lies. If the detective on scene
doesn't do their job, who else is supposed to. That's
on the detective, that's on the state to investigate properly.
That is not the country that we live in today.
(33:35):
All four of you, just your movements were good. You
anchored you, you were repetition, you used each other's themes
against each other. All of that was good. Um, so again,
congratulations on getting this far. It was very tough to judge.
You know, there's gotta be a winner and I gotta
be a loser. And I can already tell you that
there's a difference as to very small percentage as to
(33:57):
who won and who lost. All four of you one
so jee fast. I was trying to smile, but I
can't be making faces at you with them watching him.
(34:18):
And I was just like it, no, I just can't be.
I can't be like, I can't. I couldn't feel it.
You need to face And I was like no, I
was trying to like help my weight to cry, like
I'm trying I was. I was like, I was like,
I can't react to this, how do you feel? So
I feel like I stumbled in emotions and like its
(34:39):
just you did sure. I have no idea vomit, do
you have any idea? I'm gonna barth. I don't know.
I thought I thought Presiding was with you the whole time,
even though he was like overrule and stuff, like he
was like he got a little gleam in his eyes,
especially like when Cole was got people look, judges look cool,
especially presiding, um, just because he's he's just he has
(35:03):
that thing you want. You believe him, You believe him.
I don't know if the judges liked it or not.
You know, you can't really tell by just comments alone. Right,
Sometimes the judge will crap on your team and just
criticize you. And then you found out that they had
you winning by thirty points, So you don't You don't
know until we get the ballots back. Like you killed
them with kindness exactly like we talked about and like
(35:23):
that's really powerful. And for them, yeah, they were, they
were trying to bully us. But the sun came out.
And that's what I'm working with because I did manifest
that for today. I didn't look at the weather forecast. Um,
So I mean there's a chance there's there's a chance.
I yeah, And if there's a chance, and we knocked
out Baylor, we're gonna have a food. We did the
best you think, Yes, how did you feel? I feel like, well,
(35:45):
I'm gonna right again. I feel like maybe I disappointed everybody, know,
just because emotionally I caught tongue title and know you
did it. You were called. They were like, and you
were like your honor, like you were you were good.
It seemed like, no, you don't seem shaky. You were calm,
(36:06):
because the whole entire time you were like and you smiled,
you went up there, You're like, okay, let's talk about it.
I was like, we're killing them with logic today. Okay, okay,
And that was great, Okay, okay, good, We're good right there.
You're like, you know, my heart, my heart is in
(36:28):
my whause, my stomach is in my heart. I don't
know that. Yeah, all right, just come up. We're here,
all right, um, all right, everybody, some very very well
(36:50):
thought battles. We are super proud of every water. Be
all please. It's always hard because every time you advanced,
somebody's got to go home. And in this instance, obviously
four teams have to go home and for moving on
to the finals. These are the teams that are moving
on into the finals in their two final rounds. In
the two ninety five on prosecution, it will be Team
(37:11):
three forty nine Baylor versus Team three forty six South
Texas College of Law Onto. In the three thirty third Courtroom,
Team one seventy six Texas will go prosecution against Team
one sixty three St. Mary's congratulations to all of you.
(37:38):
For those of you who do not advance, y'all want
a six pack of beer? Seriously, we got tons. He's
already like, I already got one. I ain't competing today.
So they said Texas, What should they say Texas too?
I don't remember. I just heard Texas. I blacked out
after they said you weren't prosecution? I did too. It
(38:00):
sounds like we have to be cold. Did they say
Texas to or Texas one? It's probably the Texas were
the guy one best prosecutor, probably because he was Texas.
He was Houth Texas. I was Texas. Is it a
coin toss on what side we go most defense? It
has to do with the meetings, the pairings, and where
(38:21):
we It's an automatic flip said, it had nothing to
do with us. It had to do with that. You
had to do with where they work. So we are going.
I think it's ut. I'm not sure how the bracket
ends up works, but that's what we're doing now. I've
going in exsecution, were on defense, and UT School of
Law is like one of the best in the country. Overall.
(38:42):
I don't care that i'd be Baylor. I need to
beat these guys. I know, I was wondering about y'all.
I was like, oh man, you must be like, are
you chomping at the bits? I like, I'm just like,
I was so happy that we were advancing that I
didn't care, you know, because it ansing is advancing. But yeah,
I mean, like it's hard. You're like fighting the feeling
(39:05):
of like I'm not crying, like that's the super Bowl
and I got benched and it wasn't even my choice,
and it wasn't my coach and it wasn't my teammates.
That's just how the cookie crumbled. Um. I mean, like,
you know, I'm proud of us no matter what, but
a little bit. But it's hard. It's hard, all right.
(39:37):
Three o eight in session, the honor Borial Open deciding
a good afternoon, your honor. My name is Augustus Talkington,
along with my coke council Nicholas Lowry Uh. It is
our privileged to represent the state of a Lone start today.
Good afternoon, your honor. My name is Jasmine Old Gene.
That is O. L G U I N and I
(40:00):
on with my co counseling the afternoon, y honor of
My name is Cole C L E D A V
I L A. We represent the defendant, Mr Timney Williams.
It's Sunday. All of the other regional tournaments in the
country have been decided. All eyes are on Texas. Both
(40:20):
teams are exhausted, none more than Cole, who has argued
this case five times already. The courtroom is packed, spectators,
alumni and parents all are leading in. Only one of
the teams in this courtroom will get an automatic bid
to the national championship. To that members of the jury today,
(40:42):
the evidence will show that the defendant owned illegal drugs.
More than this, he intended to deliver those illegal drugs
into this very community. While opposing counsels making their opening statements,
while I am making mine during all the way, this
is all of the evidence during closing arguments and even
(41:05):
while you were deliberating. Timmy Williams is presumed to be innocent.
It's not supposed to be easy to convict somebody, because
we do not want the police and the government to
simply take the easy way out and grab the first
person they saw that day. Question that the defense is
(41:26):
going to ask you is who lived in that apartment? Now,
we as this state will show that the defendant lived
in that apartment. Now the defense is gonna come up
here and they're gonna tell you a story about how
the defendant's brother and his wife and kids lived in
that apartment. But ask yourself, does this story makes sense?
Now you see, you're gonna hear from enter Perez that
(41:49):
they took those two bags of cocaine from that night stand,
walked them downstairs, found some scales, placed them on the scales,
lined up the shot, and took photographs. One of your
rules as a patrol officer is to give out traffic tickets.
You don't investigate scenes that involved narcotics. You're not trained
(42:10):
to handle narcotics. You became excited when you saw that cocaine. Yeah, absolutely,
I mean, I'm doing my job. This is what I
signed up for. You lie to the police to get
out of trouble. There, big jection, your honor. This has
been asked and answered. I'll ask the question again. You
lied to the police to get into trouble using your
brother's license. That is correct. My objection. You're saying for
(42:33):
the statements of the officers station asking answer sustainable objection,
ask and answered. You know, and they're doing it like
they're coming out and executing. And that's all I can ask,
you know, just don't don't sit down and sweat and
you know, pass out. Have you ever loved your team
so much that you can't even watch them in the
biggest game of the season, but you keep checking the
(42:56):
score anyway? Well, that's Jason Goff. He's pacing up and
down the hallway. He quietly slips into the back of
the courtroom, gets anxious, comes back out, sits down, stands up,
starts pacing again. That such astmas Cross. I thought it
was great should really good jobs sayed really cool? Um,
(43:17):
which is important. Um. If Cole held his own an opening,
then you know the closing. You know, if it's close,
the closing will decide. It may please the court Council,
Members of the jury. Timmy Williams was found with two
(43:40):
and a half grands of cocaine and all of his
supplies for delivering that cocaine right into this community, and
instead of accepting the fact that he was caught, he lied.
And as I walked through each of these elements, I
will discuss what those words mean, but just remember that
it simply breaks down into presence of the cocaine, possession
(44:03):
of the cocaine, and intend to deliver the cocaine. Objection,
your honor, This is a misstatement of the law. It's
not presence that was established this element. The element is
just possession, which is actual care, custody, and control, not
just presence. As posting counsel has stated two times already.
As just rephrase, Council to keep going, I find maybe
(44:27):
you heard. Okay. You can either do what is right
what is easy. The state did what was easy. The
members of the jury today, we're asking you to do
what is right. This failure to investigate who actually live there,
(44:50):
this manipulation of the evidence that's not beyond a reasonable doubt,
the state has not met their burden today. We're asking
you to you what is right. And when you see
this verdict form, we asked that you find Timmy Williams
not guilty. Anything further from either side, No, your honor,
(45:16):
all right, jury charge has been submitted to the jury.
Court is in recess while they deliberate. Sure, if it
is my last rounds, then it's my last round. It's not.
It's not either way. I have to do the best
I can write, finish out on a high note or
a strong note, or you know, do do nothing and
then guarantee to be finished. But I know that my
(45:38):
future is going to be doing this for real. So
it's and a mock trial, but it's going to be
the start of real trial. It was good, It was
It was a fun round. I learned for my mistakes
yesterday and I really did like go in here thinking
this is the last round I could ever do for
mock trial, Like there's right here and I knew that.
(46:01):
I was like, I have to give it my all.
That's awesome. Absolutely, congratulations. You guys are ratest experience. You
guys are stuff amazing, amazing, great performance out of the side.
(46:22):
You're better than nine percent of the lawyers that appear
that I am. I am very encouraged about the future.
The good guardians of the Seventh Amendment because it's under attack,
so be very good guardians of that. Preserve that right
to the jury in this country because people are trying
to erode. We're leaving your hands protected. We're leaving it
(46:49):
in your hands. Yeah, te Yeah, they say, Mary's Texas. Yes,
yourself called, yes, failer, Yes, wonderful, delightful. Congratulations you guys
(47:11):
you made to the very end. And I can't tell
you how thrilled I am that we are done, but
NEEDS say I am tremendously proud of all of you.
The rounds you did, the work you did. I know
you guys have worked so freaking hard to get to
this moment where two of y'all will be going to
see it for it worth. In April, in the round
(47:34):
of three forty nine Baylor versus three forty six South
Texas College of Law, there's going to be three six
South Texas talk again. Uh. In the round of one
seventy six versus one sixty three, the winner was six
(48:09):
eraduate absolutely great. We can congratulating, go up and done
as well. Resolutions represent us. I mean, they were good,
they were something they deserve to be there. They deserve
(48:30):
to be in the final, they deserve to represent us
in national So you would have too. Y'all are gladiators,
and y'all got in there, I mean killed it. And
at the end of the day, I mean, they just
had a team that didn't make mistakes. Really, you know
they did, they were just you know, yeah, I knew
we were working on I know, I know what happened,
(48:52):
But I think you're an idiot if you don't know
what happened. Oh, no, fantastic, right, And we always said
that the road of the championship goes through Veylor, and
we did that and it was a real emotional high.
(49:14):
And we didn't help them get ready for that next one.
We didn't separate the two because you saw some mistakes
immediately that you hadn't seen all weekend except for the
first round. They were still good, they were still competitive,
and it's only a couple of point difference between the ballots.
(49:39):
But I think the emotional high of one making the
break and then two, you know, beating the number two
team in the country and a team that has dominated
this region for twelve years, it wasn't It was a
real emotional high, and I really thought that we were
(50:04):
you know, that's you know, don't count your chickens, right, um.
And then I was watching it on the simulcas and
I realized that there's we just can't. God, I wanted
to win. I wanted to win for them. It's hard,
(50:32):
and it's my reaction has nothing to do with my teammates.
It's just really hard. It's just like how they cookie crumbled.
You know. I don't understand how we lost to them.
I need to talk to like coach, like what happened?
(50:52):
What went wrong? I think that was probably my most
rout of this tournament. I don't know, kept it up
for all these rounds and then slipt. Yeah, that's gonna
I'll be something that haunts at me for a while.
You're a better swing than I could ever be learned
(51:15):
at all from you. I'm glad to have made it
back on the team. It's such a good captain. No
one else could do it like you. I never forget that.
I'll always be grateful. Always stop. I'm already crying. Cool, Yeah,
but some things need to be said. Thanks. Of course,
(51:39):
that's what friends are for. I am in your abilities.
(52:03):
Could always be sad right now? Are you treeting us?
Of course? I mean I I think that's cruel to
the humane enough. You know what in fetus when we left,
do we have a head count as everyone in the bay,
(52:27):
we got six advocates, Kristen, seat belts please head all right? Okay,
you took down the bear, you took down the king.
That's awesome, that is completely awesome. Um, and I mean god,
(52:48):
you cannot have been closer, just could not have been closer. Um,
I think, um, I think you guys should hold your
Head's really odd. A j drives the team. Hope it's
quiet in the van this time. There isn't the chatting,
(53:10):
the phone calls, the joking around for the three ls.
The mock trill season is ending. They'll move on to
finish classes, take the bar exam, get jobs. They've just
gone through an amazing weekend with the highest levels of achievement,
a lot of surprises, and a heartbreak at the end.
But through it all it's forged even stronger bonds between them.
(53:33):
Almost more than anything else. The story of the St.
Barry's Mock Trial team, it's a story of friendship. All right,
Here we go again, can't wait to get back all
the ruin again. Love is making music. Um the show.
(53:56):
I'll do the background. You know when we're we're in
the core house. You were inquired. That's a conversation for
another day. Look, you need to hear about it that sort.
(54:29):
You ever feel like you've been in a boxing match
with the person that taught you how to box, It's
like not, it's yeah, I mean it's a lot. It's
kind of like going against a child or something where
you know you're proud of him, but you're also trying
to beat him. Um, and I do want to be
them because I think it's justice from my client. That's
next time on Class Action. Last Action is a production
(54:52):
of I Heart Radio and Sound Argument. Created, produced, written,
and edited by Kevin Huffman and Lisa Gray. Additional story
production by Jennifer Swan, Kristen Cabrera, Jason Foster, and Wendy Nardi.
Executive producers are Taylor Chacogne and Katrina Norvelle. Sound design,
(55:15):
editing and mixing by Evan Tyre and Taylor Chacogne. This
episode had additional field production by Kristin Cabrera and Alfredo
de la Garza. For more podcasts from I heart Radio,
visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you get your favorite shows.
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