June 7, 2022 • 47 mins
It's boot camp graduation day at St. Mary's and the nervous 2L’s must pass one final test before they can make the team: Cross-examine their coach in an actual courtroom. AJ is a former Marine. One by one they march down Mosquito Alley in their suits. AJ is ready. “Some who you thought were going to do great are gonna fall flat on their face. Some who struggled had a light bulb go off last night and are going to do fantastic. Everyone else is going to be in the middle.” Tears will be shed.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Class action is a production of I Heart Radio and
sound argument. All right, where are we going? So we
are heading over to the courtroom. The only way to
get through it is through this pestle door with a
special key, and you have to go kind of through
mosquito allity to get there. But it doesn't matter because
(00:23):
we're going to get there. Justice BILS coach A. J.
Blito de Luna is preparing the mock court room on
campus for today's exam. I don't remember which key. It
is not that one. M that's weird. It does look
(00:48):
like they did something to the lock. Well that it's
clearly a problem. Just to relax to deep breath, all right,
claim me find the king. So apparently at some point
(01:11):
someone decided to change the lot to the back door
of the courtroom and nobody has a key. If I
want to give the kids the courtroom experience, they've earned it.
I want them to have the majesty of the court,
the judge sitting perched on her chair, and the witness
in the box and the jury in the room. I
(01:34):
want to give them that. I think they've earned it.
Today is the final day of boot camp for the
second year law students. Trying out for the St. Mary's
University mock trial team. By eight am, students are climbing
out of their trucks and family cars. They're dressed for action.
Harris cut nails are done. It's a hundred degrees outside
(01:59):
and even hotter inside the black and gray suits of
the law courts. This is class action. I'm Katie Fang.
(02:20):
In just an hour or so, these students will speak
for the very first time in the courtroom. They're going
to address the judge, conduct a cross examination, refresh a witness,
enter evidence. But for now, they pace, They mutter their lines.
They look up to the heavens. I pray, asked the
(02:40):
Lord to help me bring back to remembers the things
that I've studied episode two. Breathe think relax. That's because
you can't ask me to bring stuff that you never study,
because it's not gonna drop off the sky. I mean,
we're going to find out today whether or not we
(03:02):
push them too hard and too far? Did I do
too much with them? That's what that's on me. Right.
So they're in their final exam. I'm in my final exam.
Did I push them too hard? Are they going to
be able to do all the things that we tried
to instill in them for this year. Good afternoon, how
are you doing today? Don't ask how they're doing. No
(03:23):
one wants to be in court sogesse good morning or
good morning? Yeah, good looking? At what quick question? Would
you do that with your own witness? I never asked
us someone's dealing. Just look. The imposter syndrome is alive
and well in this group, isn't it. We've seen it
all week long that they're continually second guessing themselves, and
(03:47):
it's inherent in our profession to begin with. Do I belong?
Should I be here? Should I be on this team?
Is it right for me? I think for me it's
kind of project team my voice more. But I think
once I'm in there, I'll be I'll be okay with that.
I drew a blank yesterday when we were practiced things.
(04:08):
So I just hope it doesn't happen to fake. None
of them have done this before. This is the first week.
It's a culmination of the first week. Nerves are going
to get to a bunch of them. So some of
them who you thought were going to do great are
going to fall flat on their face. Some people who
had struggled, had a lightbulb go off last night, and
(04:29):
are going to do fantastic. Everyone else is going to
be in the middle. My credit card. Yeah Coldabula is
a third year law student trying out for the first time. Yeah,
he's a serious young man. He wants to be a
(04:50):
jag lawyer for the Air Force. Cole has a certain
kind of earnestness that comes across in a good way.
He competed on the Mood Court team last year arguing
case law only, but now he hopes to find a
new home with a trial team. Um So just kind
of it's something you gotta suck up and go through.
You know, nothing's easy, So do your do your duty
(05:12):
to your team and go forward, just sort of knowing
it's it's something I have to get done to, you know,
not only get a grade, but myself it's part of
the team and show everybody what I'm capable of doing.
It's unfortunately I've had the equivalent to about fifteen hours
of classes plus some work on the side as well
all summer, so I've really had a break, very busy.
(05:40):
Aside from objections, if we miss any question or if
we forget to approach a pusson council or something. Are
you guys gonna say no, like how when we were practicing.
Are you probably get called out for it? Okay, right,
council probably say your honor. I haven't seen that document. Okay, right, okay, Um,
just stop and think great, stop and think right breed,
(06:01):
stop and think yeah. No. I will definitely be tough
on them. You'll see, I mean, I won't be smiling.
I will you know that that isn't gonna happen. I
mean it's going to be very very serious and see
how they react to that. That's part of it as well.
But at the end you're also going to see that
fatherly love of telling them they belong, you know. Sometimes
(06:25):
going into a nerve wracking situation, I'll listen to music. Obviously.
Right now it's been a little difficult to do that.
Big Andrea B. Butchelly fan, So I'd like to go
to any one of his songs, you know, to kind
of calm me down and relax me. In the event
that it's not available, to also pray um and so
that helps calm me down a lot too. So I
(06:46):
will usually recite a Helm Marry or two. Okay, Dean
with real students. Congratulations, I'm so excited. You guys look
so professional. You're ready, right? Will you take the picture
with them? Oh? Wait? Do you want to get the middle?
(07:07):
Oh wait, wait, wait, you want to stay in the
middle like you can stand up? I don't know what
to say, objection, I don't thank you. I am Patricia Roberts.
(07:27):
I am the Dean and Charles E. Canto, Distinguished Professor
of Law at St. Mary's University, School of Law at St. Mary's.
Because our advocacy program is so successful, it plays a
very significant role in the law school in that the
students who take part in it devote tremendous time to it,
(07:50):
but it is a marvelous compliment to what they're learning
in the classroom and what they're learning from the written
advocacy portion of their legal education curriculum. We attract people
who are drawn to providing justice, to increasing access to justice,
and we're also increasing access to the profession for underrepresented individuals.
(08:14):
Where Hispanic serving institution, majority of our students are of
Hispanic or Latina descent. We also have a tremendous population
of first generation students. We are proud to be breaking
ground in many of the graduates we have in their
families and in their communities, in providing additional access to
(08:36):
the profession to those who will then pay it forward
to those they represent. Breathe by relax. We have been
together all week. None of us fight. We don't scream.
(08:57):
Might be stern, but we don't scream. Right, you're going
to mess up. I promise you. You're going to make
a mistake. It's what you do when you make that mistake.
Do you stop breathe, think and then speak, or do
you give up? None of you will give up, None
(09:22):
of you will. You will make a mistake. Relax, Breathe,
I think, speak. You're gonna try to get a piece
of evidence, and if you don't get it in right,
you know what's gonna happen. It's gonna be an objection
improper foundation. What does that tell you? Get it wrong?
You didn't follow the steps right. We're gonna keep going.
(09:45):
We're not gonna lie. You're not gonna hide the ball.
We're not gonna say, oh my god, you wonderful. We're
not gonna do that right. Our job is to correct
you constantly, to make sure that we get it right.
And when you get it right, we're gonna get it better.
And when you get it better, we're gonna get a
more better. That's why Marine Corps talking there. Right, Um,
(10:07):
have fun with this, have far with this. It's a
great day. It's graduation day, right, congraduation from boot camp day. Yeah.
I mean, at the end of the day, this is
still practice. Um, you want to do well because it's
affirming all the work that you've put in all week.
(10:29):
But at the same time, for many of us, all
of us really this is the first time we've ever
done this, and so I've put on the work all
week long. I'm confident in my ability to at least
go out there, and so that's that's just what I'm
hoping is going to carry me through this. There are
(10:51):
surprises in there. So it's really just the I keep
telling myself, like the whole keep calm, carry on, because
if I don't, then you know, just my just might crumble. Ready, Yeah,
all right, thank you, thank you. Oh my god, you
(11:13):
could see their faces, right, they're nervous. Oh my god,
they're so nervous. Get them to calm down. Remember, people
that go through first have the geaser and the people
will go last. Check them make sure that they look
right and say something you look great, and then send
them out. Encourage them. We want them to succeed. Right,
(11:41):
you ready my words of advice, just stay home free.
I think things through. You know that you'll get a
passing grade as long as you refresh interpeace evidence to
breathe be yourself here for a reason. Okay, can you
(12:11):
stay your name? My name is Cary Crawford. Okay, and
you may begin your cross whenever you're ready. Good afternoon. Today,
on direct testimony, you testified that you could recognize the
suspect that robbed you. Thank all right over there robbed
me and Veronica j of our stuff. I was very afraid,
(12:32):
and you're sure about that. There's no doubt in my mind.
Just as clear as it was that night, your honor,
my approach the witness. You may this is just when
marked defense Exhibit one for identification purposes. I am going
to read the fifth row and you can just listen
(12:57):
and look at it silently. This has not been admitted
in evidence. You can't read that. I'm sorry, okay. Earlier
we reviewed this document together and you read your name
on the bottom. The document from the government says your
(13:17):
name is not Bobby C. It says it's an alias.
You are not truthful when conducting business with the police.
I was very truthful. My name is Bobby C. Immediately
after that incident, I had my name officially changed. Obviously
is my correct name as of August two thousand. In
(13:39):
the court of law, we can only go by the
evidence that's admitted and the record, So I'll stick with
the evidence that's admitted on the government document. I'm going
to stop. I'm gonna stop you. You're on a fishing
expedition to nowhere, enter the the dents. This is something
(14:03):
that you are going to have to understand. We are
going to help you to stay away from things that
are called rabbit holes. I take it. You know what
a rabbit hole looks like. Yes, you can never get out.
And what's in the bottom of there nothing poop? Right,
(14:23):
Rabbits live in the rabbit hole and they poop. When
you go down to the rabbit hole, You're going down
to a barrel of poop. You keep trying to do
it a different way, and and that's gonna just put
you behind. I need you to trust me so as
much as work, and I could tell how much work
you put into this. Thank you for the effort, but
(14:46):
you didn't do what I asked you to do. Over
the next eight hours, a line of nervous law students
walk down Mosquito Alley to court, only to run into
a buzz saw in the witness chair. Relax for a second,
take a deep breath. Your questions are imperfect. It allows
me to run around on you. You know what you
(15:08):
want to do, and you want me to do it,
but you didn't ask your questions that way. You took
too many leaps in between. One other thing I want
to cover with you. You're standing in the wrong place.
There's a juror way over there. There's a juror there,
and there, and there and there, and all of them
had your back to them. Don't turn your back to
(15:29):
the jury ever again. That's the last time you're going
to do that. It is, in some cultures, the most
disrespectful thing you can do. Right. I agree. I don't
know what you're crying because you did great, But it
was like the final like the relief, right, yeah, hurt,
it's hot. And then I have one other in this comment.
(15:51):
You're gonna hate. You can't stand like that anymore. I
know my shoes broken. I don't care that stuff happens.
You cannot cross your legs like that. You are sending
a message to the jury that everything you're saying is
not worth listening to. You cannot do that. You have
a broken shoe, fight through it, you have a bunyan,
(16:14):
fight through it. You were fighting through the other stuff.
But you're nonverbal. Was saying, don't listen to me. Does
that make sense? So I'm gonna caution you about overacting.
So there was a little over the top. I think
that's that's that's the nervousness. And when you're as smart
(16:35):
as you are, when you pay attention to detail like
you do, you don't have to act as much as
I do. You were testifying through your actions and your words,
the phrasing of those little statements that were coming out
and two and go along with the body movement. What
(16:56):
you were saying was I'm a liar, Like yeah, no
one believes to shut up liar, m This is Jared Hall.
A statement means an oral assertion, Britain assertion, or any
(17:16):
other non verbal conduct if you intended at the assertion.
He was called out by a j for talking like
a farmer. During the early days of boot camp, a
team member said Jared's voice reminded him of corn bread.
I have no idea what you just said. Everything that
you just said is like over my head. I'm not
a lawyer. Let's take a step back. Mr C. You
(17:41):
called nine one one on August twenty nine, and you
gave on statements as part of your calling him. No,
I'm not going to call that statements. I made a
phone call. They asked me some questions. I answered them.
Mr C, there's a copy. If you're not won one call,
(18:03):
Please read silently as I read a loud line thirteen
and fourteen operator, What did they take collar my wallet,
my friends purse. They have all our credit cards in cash.
They also have her phone. Okay, isn't that what I said?
(18:24):
Mr C? Did I read that correctly? You're a good reader. Soon,
no further questions. You're on m The more I pished
you off, the better you get. Now you're going on
some fishing. Look, you're you're on such a fishing expedition.
(18:45):
I do a fishing rod with a reel. As soon
as we fixed your fishing expeditions, you're gonna be all right, man.
I did everything I could to just screw you up,
and I screwed you up a little bit, but not
that much. That impeachment when you didn't ask that one
more question. When you walked away with the police report,
(19:08):
you got what you needed, so that was perfect. What
was the problem with the police report? You kept trying
to impeach me on your on your guy doing it right?
So what did I keep doing? Uh? Kept giving me
a hard time about it? And I also appreciate that
(19:30):
you try to change your presence in the room. Now
we still got a little bit of that you know
thing going on, but I'm okay with it. Don't kill
yourself when you're doing good? Makes sense? All right? Good job?
(19:54):
And is this done in a group setting? A j
Is this the entire group together? It's an open, constructively
critical station. It is, Katie, and it has to be.
And the reason why is that a lesson for one
is a lesson for all. If I have to teach this,
if I have to go through that with every single person,
I don't want everybody crying. I don't want anybody crying.
There's no crying. And trial ads that what you're thinking
(20:16):
trying and trial saying come on. Can you imagine when
the judge admonishes you in a court and you start crying.
I've been admonished by judges. I'm sure you've been admonished
by judges there. I don't think there's a lawyer alive
who isn't admonished by a judge at some point in
their career. The last thing you can start doing is crying.
So you might as well get admonished right now, so
(20:36):
that you get used to being admonished when you do
something that you shouldn't be doing. Hello, turn in your
stuff to a j Please state your name Vanessa Skillman, okay,
and you moved cross whenever you're ready, Mr she I
(20:59):
am showing you. It has been previously marked as defense
Exhibit one for identification purposes. Do you recognize this exhibit?
This is your credit card. You're able to identify this
as your credit card because of your name on the
bottom left. This credit card is the same or substantially
similar to the last time you saw this credit card.
(21:23):
Much from the police report, from what was stated on
the evidence collected from officer Yes, sir, right, the only
item that was obtained was a credit card. Two credit
cards to credit cards no further questions. All right, stop,
(21:44):
I need you to pass. You didn't enter, Oh my god,
staying character, You've done great. Can go through the process
of entering in a piece of evidence. You're Mary. Approach
the clerk. You might thanks, um, I would like to
have this preliminary marked as defense Exhibit one for identification purposes,
(22:10):
Your honor, I request that the evidence previously marked. Does
defense Exhibit one for identification purposes be entered into evidence
as defense exhibit one? Any objections, it is so admitted,
your honor may published with the jury. You may, Hey, Vanessa,
(22:34):
I learned something about you today. I'm so stressed. I
learned something about you today. I didn't know you've been
perfect all so. I was always going to be difficult
with you. I wanted to see how far I could
push you. You are so focused on just getting done
that you're not listening. In the first half I had
(22:58):
said to a bunch of questions, what's on the recording?
Then on the second half I said m hm m
hm hm to about five questions. It was four or five,
I don't remember. I haven't told Karen. I was like,
he's gonna say, and I need to go. Is that
a yes, and so the record is not clear there, right. Listen, Vanessa,
(23:21):
I think it's clear that every single coach and every
single three y'all sees a potential superstar in you. If
you don't stop and listen, and if you don't believe
that you need help to get great, we'll never get
there with you. You need to hear us, do what
(23:42):
we ask, pay attention to what you're doing when you're
doing it. When you go to the Army Air Force,
Air Force, forgive me paying attention what you're saying. You
will one day go back and remember this statement that
I just gave to you. It's going to serve you well.
(24:02):
And the fact that you cried tells me that you care. Normally,
I would say, like generally my role in life is like,
you don't practice until you get it perfect. You practice
until you don't get it wrong. Andy Viscarra is a
third year law student and the child team captain. So
you can do it in your sleep. But I think
(24:23):
at the stage that they're at, yes, you can over
practice because then they're just thinking about what's the next
step and making sure they don't make the next step,
and they're not listening to the witness. UM, and that's
a mistake we all made when we started training for
this because you're just you're you're doing you your own show,
which is fine, but if you're not listening to the witness,
it's it's never gonna work. You. You practice until you
(24:45):
can't get it wrong, until it's impossible. But yeah, at
their stage, there's definitely over practicing, Like confidence is everything. Yeah,
after a long wait, which incidentally gave her enough time
to drive home and walk her dog, Genesis, Sealinas is
a bundle of nerves. I'm a try a lot, very
(25:09):
emotional sensitive any times it's about this trial, Like it's
just like it gets very cracking. It's okay though I'm excited,
but I'm like overthinking everything that they could bring up
that I don't feel prepared for. And honestly, like you're
probably going taking your dogs out was like a great
mental break to kind of step away and because people
have been here all day like overthinking and read playing
(25:31):
and playing, so that you had that time to get
some air. Oh yeah, I'm gonna telling you. Okay, thanks, Okay,
so do you have the documents that you get had
to Um, you can't really tell you what to expect,
(25:53):
other than be calm, be competent. You know the packet,
breathe something on expect. He comes up a minute on
your feet. Um, and he's also your court reporter. Okay,
(26:15):
You're gonna stand where you feel comfortable, but you should
you should be closer to your ladies. Whenever you're ready,
state your name, okay. I am Jenesis Sellieness okay, and
you may begin your across whenever you're ready. Mr C.
On August, you went out for drinks. I can't remember
(26:40):
if it was. It might have been the thirtieth. I
don't remember I was drinking. I would see a copy
of transcript helped refresh your memory. If it has a
date on it, it it probably would. I am showing opposing councel.
Count Oh, I'm I am showing opposing counsel the transcript,
(27:08):
your honor, May I approach the witness? You may? I
am handing the witness the transcript, specifically referencing the very
top header. Please look over the document carefully and look
up at me when your memory has been refreshed. I
am handy the witness Defense Exhibit one for identification purposes.
(27:33):
You recognize this document I just handed you the City
of San Antonio rap sheet report. I'm a little I
don't know why she's here. I'm a little freaked out.
Did you look at the rap sheet? I'm sorry, what
do you want me? If you could please look? If
(27:55):
you could please look at the rap sheet? You recognize
this sheet? No, I've never seen this before in my life.
I'm retrieving the document from the witness, Mr c. This
credit card was retrieved from the defendants. UM, I'm assuming
(28:20):
that's true. You have to ask, offer sand Lopo. This
is your credit card. It is my credit card. No
further questions, Ron, I think right about now, the people
that went first or like thinking, boy, I'm glad I
went first and not and not last. Um, because we
(28:41):
will continually make it harder and harder for you. So
you try to get me, you try to impeach me
on a rap sheet that has somebody else's name on it,
that goes back to yesterday with me saying don't do
the hard stuff. Okay, you're not ready yet. I thought
it would be in this of all under six o nine,
(29:02):
I told you not to do six o nine. We
specifically said that it's okay. I had the credit card
backup plan. I practice, we did have the credit card
backup plan, and I want to really applaud you for that.
I didn't like the laughing. I'm sorry, right because it's
out of the moment. Okay, I was doing stuff to
take you out of the moment, but I wanted you
(29:23):
to stay in the moment. If you want to be
able to compete and then go be a good trial lawyer,
we're gonna need to get rid of that, right. You
got to think that every single time you're directing or crossing,
or its opening or closing, it's real. Let's be serious. However,
having said that, you have an incredible presence, Genesis, I
(29:44):
think I think all week long everyone's been saying the
same thing, that your presence is pretty amazing. So let's
just work on that little thing so that you're so
that you can keep the room exactly where you want them,
which is eating out of the palm of your hand,
house of your presence. Everyone started cry from stress starting.
Not everyone cried. Not everyone cried. Yes, we caught up
(30:10):
with Genesis later. So I did feel prepared going in.
I did know what I was doing, but I didn't
feel as confident as I did going in that Monday.
By Friday, I was trying to stay afloat. I was
trying to, you know, get everything out, and I did
do everything correctly except that I was laughing. I was
(30:32):
very nervous. I wasn't as you know, confident and as
assertive as I should have been, and I think that's
just because I was overwhelmed and I did start crying.
A J told me I needed to be more assertive,
and I think that's one thing I struggled with. I
wasn't being the advocate that I needed to be for
Professor A J or for our coaches. Um. So I
didn't realize that I was, I guess, not meeting the
(30:55):
expectations that they had wanted because I wasn't being asserted.
So I don't know what maybe they thought, Oh, you know,
she doesn't have what it takes. She she doesn't get angry,
and I know that I have what it takes. I
just wasn't showing it all. Right, A right, are you
(31:28):
ready order? Can you say your name please? My name
is Cole Dobby, your honor, okay, and when you're ready
to getting your cross, you may begin. Obviously on the
night of August, you went out with a friend. I
met a friend. You met a friend, and that friend
was Veronica J. She's just a friend. There's nothing going on.
(31:52):
We're just friends. And you two went out to a
bar that night. Did you were call making a nine
one one call that night? I definitely did. When your
guy robbed me. Would seeing a transcript of that one
call refresh your memory? Approached witness Shaan. If you can
read that, and once you're done refreshing your memory, can
you look back at me. You two were robbed. We
(32:16):
were by that guy over there, and these two individuals
when they robbed you, they brandished a gun. I'm sorry,
I said again. The two individuals who robbed you, one
of them brandished a gun. Oh, they both had guns.
Both had guns. Is your testimony today that both the
individuals had guns? Yes, I approach the witness Shan. Obviously,
(32:38):
this is a transcript of your one call from the
night of August. By direct your attention to line number ten.
If you can read along silently as I read aloud,
they pointed a gun, took our stuff and run away.
Did I read that correctly? So they pointed a gun
at you that night? They pointed a gun. Each one
(33:01):
of them had a gun. They them two people had
a gun. Each Each of them pointed a gun at
me and Veronica guns they if I may continue, when
you saw them, you weren't able to get a good
(33:21):
look at either of them. That's a fast statement. They
don't have a gun in our face. It all happened
so fast, it's really quick. Now on direct examination, you
said that you got a good look at one of
their faces. You never saw the police report. Now at
(33:43):
the gas station, you saw police officers arrest to individuals. Yeah,
I think that's right. And at that moment of the arrest,
you did not identify either of the defendants as the
man arrested. I did not. For the question, arre m
(34:14):
Mariella and Sinas was the first to arrive this morning,
I can open my binder and have things. In fact,
she was the first to arrive every morning during the week,
quietly taking copious notes and working with the three l's
on her trial strategy. So, yeah, all eyes are on you,
but they're all eyes on you because you're the boss, right,
(34:35):
You're the boss. Mario ELA's goal is to become a prosecutor,
to try cases in a Special Victims Unit. Okay, please
state your names, okay, and as soon as you're ready,
you may begin your cross. Thank you, good afternoon, Mr Cy.
(34:58):
On August fifteen of twenty nineteen, you were at Barbara restaurant.
I was at a restaurant was named after a horse.
But I can't remember if Barbara is a horse or not.
I don't know. I don't remember. If I show you
a copy of your on one called transcript, would you
be able to maybe refresh your memory with that if
(35:20):
it's in there? Yeah, I think it might. And on
that night, after you were getting some dinner and a
drink with your friend Veronica, you decided the best decision
was probably to walk her home. I didn't want her
to walk home. What is relevance? Evidence is relevant if
(35:41):
it a has any tendency to make a fact more
or less probable than it would be without the evidence,
and be the fact is of consequence in determining the action.
This is irrelevant because it establishes the night and his
ability to recall the events of that night. Okay, So
(36:03):
when the guns were pointed at you, it was frightening, terrifying.
It was hard to focus. I thought I was going
to die. All you could really focus on was that gun.
I looked right down that barrel and I was just
waiting for the blast. So you couldn't really focus on
(36:24):
anything other than that gun. No. I was also focused
on Veronica j because I was walking her home to
protect her, and I couldn't against that animal. And you
were held at gunpoint. Yeah, and being held at gunpoint
made it difficult to be able to focus on anything
but your safety and veronica safety. I was there for
(36:46):
Veronica the whole time, but it was hard to focus
on anything other than that gun. Being held at gunpoint. Yes,
no further questions, your honor. You didn't let it deter you.
Her objection. You know what you need to get in.
You know that you need it, and so you're going
(37:08):
to find a way to make it happen. So that
was pretty good. I'll say that your voice is awesome.
I love it. I love the way that you projected.
I mean, you fill up this room, and it takes
a lot to do that because you're you're you know,
you're self conscious about your voice when you start out.
Just remember that keep it, never let that go, Never
let the way that you walk up and back and
(37:29):
up to their up to his face and put it
in all that you're own in a courtroom. That's exactly
what you have to do. I asked them in a
comment because I don't like gushing over first year of
trial team members too much. The reason why I think
I'm so impressed is because I remember you from Monday,
afraid to death, from the very first assignment. I would
(37:50):
not have predicted on Monday what you did today. You
had an amazing day. Thank you how to go in there?
I feel it went well. It was definitely a little intimidating.
I enjoyed it, but there were a few hiccups and
(38:12):
definitely things that you can't really plan for. I didn't
rehearse and rehearse to the point of memorization because I
knew that Dean a. J Was going to throw some
things in there that we we there's no way to rehearse,
so to rehearse to the point of memorization really wasn't
worth it for me having the three l's to be
able to listen to me over at least enough to
tell me what I'm technically doing wrong without knowing what's coming.
(38:34):
What do I want to work for a while prosecuting,
and eventually, after I spend a while prosecuting, working appeals
for wrongful conviction. The worst thing a person can do
is is knowingly put someone away the wrong way. Monday,
we came together and we started from scratch. I want
(38:57):
you to think ing a little bit of time that
we've been together, where you were, who you were, and
where you are right now. And I want to ask
you this question, and I want you to just have
this introspection. I like where I'm going, I like where
(39:22):
I am. I look forward to the next challenge. If
you say yes to all three of those, we have
work to do starting on Saturday. If you didn't say
yes to all three of those, you need to come
see me, because this isn't for you. We are going
(39:48):
to work you harder than you did this week. Some
of you, several of you cried happy sad tears either
today or yesterday or this week. You're going to cry more.
(40:08):
You're gonna be upset at me, You're gonna be upset
at yourselves. You're going to be upset at each other.
You know you better than any of us. Can you
take that kind of criticism? Can you be upset with
(40:29):
your partner and still be respectful of them. If you
can where your home. If you can't, I need you
to come see me, and I want you to ask
yourself if you like where you are and if you
are and we're in a good place. The next day,
(40:58):
the entire team gets together at a local bar in
San Antonio. The two els are burned out, but they're happy.
The three all spot the rookies a drink and pat
them on the back. Welcome to the team, rookies. Everyone
is anxious to find out who's going to be assigned
(41:20):
to the upcoming trial competitions that are being held around
the country. It was the hardest thing I've ever done.
He was being extra, We'll put it that way. He
was being extra as the witness. It was a lot.
I cried, but it was like a good cry. And
about two minutes before I went in the court room,
(41:43):
my high heel broke and he had to walk back
and forth in the court room, and it was dreadful
every single time the next time I'll got there. For
one were super true. The three els prepared us. The
three els helped us. We probably would not have been
as confident, and we didn't of them like right before,
like you got this, Like it's fine. I think we're
(42:04):
a solid group. I'm really excited to work with my
fellow two els um. But I think just combine us
with the three else and the support that they've shown
us and and we're gonna be solid. Yesterday was a lot.
I didn't cry in the room. I was trying before
I got in the room. I was reflecting like I
(42:27):
was raised by my my grandparents and they didn't go
past third grade. You know, they were born in the South,
raised in the South. They didn't even go past elementary school.
And I'm standing in the law school and people are
saying that you should be on a trial team. I
felt like a weight of you gotta do your pass,
you gotta just felt a weight of my family history,
(42:50):
or I just felt a weight like if you get
a chance to like sneak in the room, you gotta
try to do your best because you don't always get
a chance to even get in the room because they
spent time to slammed the door. So this is new
for me because I don't like to not know things.
I don't like to be on not on top of
my game. I don't like to not do stuff right.
So this is stressful. When I don't get it right
(43:10):
the first time, I can't give up have Vanessa s
oh I cried, There was no I was on the
ViRGE of tears, like I cried. There's like a lot
of pressure whenever you're doing there's pressure on yourself because
you want to be a good advocate. And then there's pressure,
I guess, like all the external things because it's like
I want to do well. I want to do well
(43:32):
this course. I want to like show that I'm good.
But looking back, I wouldn't have changed anything. So I
think it's important to mess up because it's important to
mess up how and something that doesn't matter or affect anyone.
So I want you could be a better advocate and
attorney later on when your client is actually relying on you,
(44:00):
we know how hard you wor kind of like a
little bit of a hell. We thanks everybody for coming out.
We went to seven competitions last year. Our team this year,
we're gonna go to eight competitions in the fall. I
truly believe that our time is now. I know that
Jason believes, at Maritza and Dad and all the coaches,
(44:24):
we believe that our time is now to our two
else before I tell the three ls where they're going.
Every single three L will tell you the same thing.
They sacrificed a ton for their personal development and for
their team, for themselves and for each other. You have
(44:46):
to be able to do the same thing if you
want to be great. And we started working, you know, Monday.
So for the National Trial League representing us, there are
gonna be Kenneth Robin said, hell Will, Stephanie and John.
(45:07):
The Battle of Experts was the next competition. It starts up.
We're gonna be represented by Andy v Jasmine and we're
gonna do something special. We're gonna add Cold of that list.
The witness for us. He's only got one year, but
you all saw him yesterday. He's are in that right.
(45:28):
We were waiting for yesterday to make this foul call
I'm gonna have. I really want to win. I want
to win all of these. Those are our competitions. Two wells.
I'm really proud of you. I'm happy to be your director,
your coach. I want you to work really hard. These
three l's have set they set a stage for you,
(45:53):
So let's get to work. Let's work hard. Let's work smart.
This last week is nothing like what I'm about to
put you through. This is like hell preparation week. Work
Stay with me, stay with us? All right, congratulations, All
that's congratulates, Gonna get to go to the Generally, law
(46:24):
students across the country are saying goodbye to their friends
and family and they're free time. It's all about the
team and the case. That is a great murder scenario
for a mock trial because it's not your obvious, premeditated
murder that was not supposed to happen. When they're done
(46:46):
beating him to death, I think the de Niro character
sort of says to the pesci character, would you do
that's next time? On class Action. Class Action is a
production of I Heart Radio and Sound Argument. Created, produced, written,
(47:08):
and edited by Kevin Huffman and Lisa Gray. Executive producers
are Taylor Chacogne and Katrina Norvell. Additional story production by
Jennifer Swan, Kristen Cabrera, Jason Foster, and Wendy Nardi. Sound design,
editing and mixing by Evan Tyre and Taylor Chacogne. This
(47:30):
episode had additional field production by Kristen Cabrera. For more
podcasts from I heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app,
Apple podcast, or wherever you get your favorite shows.
Class action is a production of I Heart Radio and
sound argument. All right, where are we going? So we
are heading over to the courtroom. The only way to
get through it is through this pestle door with a
special key, and you have to go kind of through
mosquito allity to get there. But it doesn't matter because
(00:23):
we're going to get there. Justice BILS coach A. J.
Blito de Luna is preparing the mock court room on
campus for today's exam. I don't remember which key. It
is not that one. M that's weird. It does look
(00:48):
like they did something to the lock. Well that it's
clearly a problem. Just to relax to deep breath, all right,
claim me find the king. So apparently at some point
(01:11):
someone decided to change the lot to the back door
of the courtroom and nobody has a key. If I
want to give the kids the courtroom experience, they've earned it.
I want them to have the majesty of the court,
the judge sitting perched on her chair, and the witness
in the box and the jury in the room. I
(01:34):
want to give them that. I think they've earned it.
Today is the final day of boot camp for the
second year law students. Trying out for the St. Mary's
University mock trial team. By eight am, students are climbing
out of their trucks and family cars. They're dressed for action.
Harris cut nails are done. It's a hundred degrees outside
(01:59):
and even hotter inside the black and gray suits of
the law courts. This is class action. I'm Katie Fang.
(02:20):
In just an hour or so, these students will speak
for the very first time in the courtroom. They're going
to address the judge, conduct a cross examination, refresh a witness,
enter evidence. But for now, they pace, They mutter their lines.
They look up to the heavens. I pray, asked the
(02:40):
Lord to help me bring back to remembers the things
that I've studied episode two. Breathe think relax. That's because
you can't ask me to bring stuff that you never study,
because it's not gonna drop off the sky. I mean,
we're going to find out today whether or not we
(03:02):
push them too hard and too far? Did I do
too much with them? That's what that's on me. Right.
So they're in their final exam. I'm in my final exam.
Did I push them too hard? Are they going to
be able to do all the things that we tried
to instill in them for this year. Good afternoon, how
are you doing today? Don't ask how they're doing. No
(03:23):
one wants to be in court sogesse good morning or
good morning? Yeah, good looking? At what quick question? Would
you do that with your own witness? I never asked
us someone's dealing. Just look. The imposter syndrome is alive
and well in this group, isn't it. We've seen it
all week long that they're continually second guessing themselves, and
(03:47):
it's inherent in our profession to begin with. Do I belong?
Should I be here? Should I be on this team?
Is it right for me? I think for me it's
kind of project team my voice more. But I think
once I'm in there, I'll be I'll be okay with that.
I drew a blank yesterday when we were practiced things.
(04:08):
So I just hope it doesn't happen to fake. None
of them have done this before. This is the first week.
It's a culmination of the first week. Nerves are going
to get to a bunch of them. So some of
them who you thought were going to do great are
going to fall flat on their face. Some people who
had struggled, had a lightbulb go off last night, and
(04:29):
are going to do fantastic. Everyone else is going to
be in the middle. My credit card. Yeah Coldabula is
a third year law student trying out for the first time. Yeah,
he's a serious young man. He wants to be a
(04:50):
jag lawyer for the Air Force. Cole has a certain
kind of earnestness that comes across in a good way.
He competed on the Mood Court team last year arguing
case law only, but now he hopes to find a
new home with a trial team. Um So just kind
of it's something you gotta suck up and go through.
You know, nothing's easy, So do your do your duty
(05:12):
to your team and go forward, just sort of knowing
it's it's something I have to get done to, you know,
not only get a grade, but myself it's part of
the team and show everybody what I'm capable of doing.
It's unfortunately I've had the equivalent to about fifteen hours
of classes plus some work on the side as well
all summer, so I've really had a break, very busy.
(05:40):
Aside from objections, if we miss any question or if
we forget to approach a pusson council or something. Are
you guys gonna say no, like how when we were practicing.
Are you probably get called out for it? Okay, right,
council probably say your honor. I haven't seen that document. Okay, right, okay, Um,
just stop and think great, stop and think right breed,
(06:01):
stop and think yeah. No. I will definitely be tough
on them. You'll see, I mean, I won't be smiling.
I will you know that that isn't gonna happen. I
mean it's going to be very very serious and see
how they react to that. That's part of it as well.
But at the end you're also going to see that
fatherly love of telling them they belong, you know. Sometimes
(06:25):
going into a nerve wracking situation, I'll listen to music. Obviously.
Right now it's been a little difficult to do that.
Big Andrea B. Butchelly fan, So I'd like to go
to any one of his songs, you know, to kind
of calm me down and relax me. In the event
that it's not available, to also pray um and so
that helps calm me down a lot too. So I
(06:46):
will usually recite a Helm Marry or two. Okay, Dean
with real students. Congratulations, I'm so excited. You guys look
so professional. You're ready, right? Will you take the picture
with them? Oh? Wait? Do you want to get the middle?
(07:07):
Oh wait, wait, wait, you want to stay in the
middle like you can stand up? I don't know what
to say, objection, I don't thank you. I am Patricia Roberts.
(07:27):
I am the Dean and Charles E. Canto, Distinguished Professor
of Law at St. Mary's University, School of Law at St. Mary's.
Because our advocacy program is so successful, it plays a
very significant role in the law school in that the
students who take part in it devote tremendous time to it,
(07:50):
but it is a marvelous compliment to what they're learning
in the classroom and what they're learning from the written
advocacy portion of their legal education curriculum. We attract people
who are drawn to providing justice, to increasing access to justice,
and we're also increasing access to the profession for underrepresented individuals.
(08:14):
Where Hispanic serving institution, majority of our students are of
Hispanic or Latina descent. We also have a tremendous population
of first generation students. We are proud to be breaking
ground in many of the graduates we have in their
families and in their communities, in providing additional access to
(08:36):
the profession to those who will then pay it forward
to those they represent. Breathe by relax. We have been
together all week. None of us fight. We don't scream.
(08:57):
Might be stern, but we don't scream. Right, you're going
to mess up. I promise you. You're going to make
a mistake. It's what you do when you make that mistake.
Do you stop breathe, think and then speak, or do
you give up? None of you will give up, None
(09:22):
of you will. You will make a mistake. Relax, Breathe,
I think, speak. You're gonna try to get a piece
of evidence, and if you don't get it in right,
you know what's gonna happen. It's gonna be an objection
improper foundation. What does that tell you? Get it wrong?
You didn't follow the steps right. We're gonna keep going.
(09:45):
We're not gonna lie. You're not gonna hide the ball.
We're not gonna say, oh my god, you wonderful. We're
not gonna do that right. Our job is to correct
you constantly, to make sure that we get it right.
And when you get it right, we're gonna get it better.
And when you get it better, we're gonna get a
more better. That's why Marine Corps talking there. Right, Um,
(10:07):
have fun with this, have far with this. It's a
great day. It's graduation day, right, congraduation from boot camp day. Yeah.
I mean, at the end of the day, this is
still practice. Um, you want to do well because it's
affirming all the work that you've put in all week.
(10:29):
But at the same time, for many of us, all
of us really this is the first time we've ever
done this, and so I've put on the work all
week long. I'm confident in my ability to at least
go out there, and so that's that's just what I'm
hoping is going to carry me through this. There are
(10:51):
surprises in there. So it's really just the I keep
telling myself, like the whole keep calm, carry on, because
if I don't, then you know, just my just might crumble. Ready, Yeah,
all right, thank you, thank you. Oh my god, you
(11:13):
could see their faces, right, they're nervous. Oh my god,
they're so nervous. Get them to calm down. Remember, people
that go through first have the geaser and the people
will go last. Check them make sure that they look
right and say something you look great, and then send
them out. Encourage them. We want them to succeed. Right,
(11:41):
you ready my words of advice, just stay home free.
I think things through. You know that you'll get a
passing grade as long as you refresh interpeace evidence to
breathe be yourself here for a reason. Okay, can you
(12:11):
stay your name? My name is Cary Crawford. Okay, and
you may begin your cross whenever you're ready. Good afternoon. Today,
on direct testimony, you testified that you could recognize the
suspect that robbed you. Thank all right over there robbed
me and Veronica j of our stuff. I was very afraid,
(12:32):
and you're sure about that. There's no doubt in my mind.
Just as clear as it was that night, your honor,
my approach the witness. You may this is just when
marked defense Exhibit one for identification purposes. I am going
to read the fifth row and you can just listen
(12:57):
and look at it silently. This has not been admitted
in evidence. You can't read that. I'm sorry, okay. Earlier
we reviewed this document together and you read your name
on the bottom. The document from the government says your
(13:17):
name is not Bobby C. It says it's an alias.
You are not truthful when conducting business with the police.
I was very truthful. My name is Bobby C. Immediately
after that incident, I had my name officially changed. Obviously
is my correct name as of August two thousand. In
(13:39):
the court of law, we can only go by the
evidence that's admitted and the record, So I'll stick with
the evidence that's admitted on the government document. I'm going
to stop. I'm gonna stop you. You're on a fishing
expedition to nowhere, enter the the dents. This is something
(14:03):
that you are going to have to understand. We are
going to help you to stay away from things that
are called rabbit holes. I take it. You know what
a rabbit hole looks like. Yes, you can never get out.
And what's in the bottom of there nothing poop? Right,
(14:23):
Rabbits live in the rabbit hole and they poop. When
you go down to the rabbit hole, You're going down
to a barrel of poop. You keep trying to do
it a different way, and and that's gonna just put
you behind. I need you to trust me so as
much as work, and I could tell how much work
you put into this. Thank you for the effort, but
(14:46):
you didn't do what I asked you to do. Over
the next eight hours, a line of nervous law students
walk down Mosquito Alley to court, only to run into
a buzz saw in the witness chair. Relax for a second,
take a deep breath. Your questions are imperfect. It allows
me to run around on you. You know what you
(15:08):
want to do, and you want me to do it,
but you didn't ask your questions that way. You took
too many leaps in between. One other thing I want
to cover with you. You're standing in the wrong place.
There's a juror way over there. There's a juror there,
and there, and there and there, and all of them
had your back to them. Don't turn your back to
(15:29):
the jury ever again. That's the last time you're going
to do that. It is, in some cultures, the most
disrespectful thing you can do. Right. I agree. I don't
know what you're crying because you did great, But it
was like the final like the relief, right, yeah, hurt,
it's hot. And then I have one other in this comment.
(15:51):
You're gonna hate. You can't stand like that anymore. I
know my shoes broken. I don't care that stuff happens.
You cannot cross your legs like that. You are sending
a message to the jury that everything you're saying is
not worth listening to. You cannot do that. You have
a broken shoe, fight through it, you have a bunyan,
(16:14):
fight through it. You were fighting through the other stuff.
But you're nonverbal. Was saying, don't listen to me. Does
that make sense? So I'm gonna caution you about overacting.
So there was a little over the top. I think
that's that's that's the nervousness. And when you're as smart
(16:35):
as you are, when you pay attention to detail like
you do, you don't have to act as much as
I do. You were testifying through your actions and your words,
the phrasing of those little statements that were coming out
and two and go along with the body movement. What
(16:56):
you were saying was I'm a liar, Like yeah, no
one believes to shut up liar, m This is Jared Hall.
A statement means an oral assertion, Britain assertion, or any
(17:16):
other non verbal conduct if you intended at the assertion.
He was called out by a j for talking like
a farmer. During the early days of boot camp, a
team member said Jared's voice reminded him of corn bread.
I have no idea what you just said. Everything that
you just said is like over my head. I'm not
a lawyer. Let's take a step back. Mr C. You
(17:41):
called nine one one on August twenty nine, and you
gave on statements as part of your calling him. No,
I'm not going to call that statements. I made a
phone call. They asked me some questions. I answered them.
Mr C, there's a copy. If you're not won one call,
(18:03):
Please read silently as I read a loud line thirteen
and fourteen operator, What did they take collar my wallet,
my friends purse. They have all our credit cards in cash.
They also have her phone. Okay, isn't that what I said?
(18:24):
Mr C? Did I read that correctly? You're a good reader. Soon,
no further questions. You're on m The more I pished
you off, the better you get. Now you're going on
some fishing. Look, you're you're on such a fishing expedition.
(18:45):
I do a fishing rod with a reel. As soon
as we fixed your fishing expeditions, you're gonna be all right, man.
I did everything I could to just screw you up,
and I screwed you up a little bit, but not
that much. That impeachment when you didn't ask that one
more question. When you walked away with the police report,
(19:08):
you got what you needed, so that was perfect. What
was the problem with the police report? You kept trying
to impeach me on your on your guy doing it right?
So what did I keep doing? Uh? Kept giving me
a hard time about it? And I also appreciate that
(19:30):
you try to change your presence in the room. Now
we still got a little bit of that you know
thing going on, but I'm okay with it. Don't kill
yourself when you're doing good? Makes sense? All right? Good job?
(19:54):
And is this done in a group setting? A j
Is this the entire group together? It's an open, constructively
critical station. It is, Katie, and it has to be.
And the reason why is that a lesson for one
is a lesson for all. If I have to teach this,
if I have to go through that with every single person,
I don't want everybody crying. I don't want anybody crying.
There's no crying. And trial ads that what you're thinking
(20:16):
trying and trial saying come on. Can you imagine when
the judge admonishes you in a court and you start crying.
I've been admonished by judges. I'm sure you've been admonished
by judges there. I don't think there's a lawyer alive
who isn't admonished by a judge at some point in
their career. The last thing you can start doing is crying.
So you might as well get admonished right now, so
(20:36):
that you get used to being admonished when you do
something that you shouldn't be doing. Hello, turn in your
stuff to a j Please state your name Vanessa Skillman, okay,
and you moved cross whenever you're ready, Mr she I
(20:59):
am showing you. It has been previously marked as defense
Exhibit one for identification purposes. Do you recognize this exhibit?
This is your credit card. You're able to identify this
as your credit card because of your name on the
bottom left. This credit card is the same or substantially
similar to the last time you saw this credit card.
(21:23):
Much from the police report, from what was stated on
the evidence collected from officer Yes, sir, right, the only
item that was obtained was a credit card. Two credit
cards to credit cards no further questions. All right, stop,
(21:44):
I need you to pass. You didn't enter, Oh my god,
staying character, You've done great. Can go through the process
of entering in a piece of evidence. You're Mary. Approach
the clerk. You might thanks, um, I would like to
have this preliminary marked as defense Exhibit one for identification purposes,
(22:10):
Your honor, I request that the evidence previously marked. Does
defense Exhibit one for identification purposes be entered into evidence
as defense exhibit one? Any objections, it is so admitted,
your honor may published with the jury. You may, Hey, Vanessa,
(22:34):
I learned something about you today. I'm so stressed. I
learned something about you today. I didn't know you've been
perfect all so. I was always going to be difficult
with you. I wanted to see how far I could
push you. You are so focused on just getting done
that you're not listening. In the first half I had
(22:58):
said to a bunch of questions, what's on the recording?
Then on the second half I said m hm m
hm hm to about five questions. It was four or five,
I don't remember. I haven't told Karen. I was like,
he's gonna say, and I need to go. Is that
a yes, and so the record is not clear there, right. Listen, Vanessa,
(23:21):
I think it's clear that every single coach and every
single three y'all sees a potential superstar in you. If
you don't stop and listen, and if you don't believe
that you need help to get great, we'll never get
there with you. You need to hear us, do what
(23:42):
we ask, pay attention to what you're doing when you're
doing it. When you go to the Army Air Force,
Air Force, forgive me paying attention what you're saying. You
will one day go back and remember this statement that
I just gave to you. It's going to serve you well.
(24:02):
And the fact that you cried tells me that you care. Normally,
I would say, like generally my role in life is like,
you don't practice until you get it perfect. You practice
until you don't get it wrong. Andy Viscarra is a
third year law student and the child team captain. So
you can do it in your sleep. But I think
(24:23):
at the stage that they're at, yes, you can over
practice because then they're just thinking about what's the next
step and making sure they don't make the next step,
and they're not listening to the witness. UM, and that's
a mistake we all made when we started training for
this because you're just you're you're doing you your own show,
which is fine, but if you're not listening to the witness,
it's it's never gonna work. You. You practice until you
(24:45):
can't get it wrong, until it's impossible. But yeah, at
their stage, there's definitely over practicing, Like confidence is everything. Yeah,
after a long wait, which incidentally gave her enough time
to drive home and walk her dog, Genesis, Sealinas is
a bundle of nerves. I'm a try a lot, very
(25:09):
emotional sensitive any times it's about this trial, Like it's
just like it gets very cracking. It's okay though I'm excited,
but I'm like overthinking everything that they could bring up
that I don't feel prepared for. And honestly, like you're
probably going taking your dogs out was like a great
mental break to kind of step away and because people
have been here all day like overthinking and read playing
(25:31):
and playing, so that you had that time to get
some air. Oh yeah, I'm gonna telling you. Okay, thanks, Okay,
so do you have the documents that you get had
to Um, you can't really tell you what to expect,
(25:53):
other than be calm, be competent. You know the packet,
breathe something on expect. He comes up a minute on
your feet. Um, and he's also your court reporter. Okay,
(26:15):
You're gonna stand where you feel comfortable, but you should
you should be closer to your ladies. Whenever you're ready,
state your name, okay. I am Jenesis Sellieness okay, and
you may begin your across whenever you're ready. Mr C.
On August, you went out for drinks. I can't remember
(26:40):
if it was. It might have been the thirtieth. I
don't remember I was drinking. I would see a copy
of transcript helped refresh your memory. If it has a
date on it, it it probably would. I am showing opposing councel.
Count Oh, I'm I am showing opposing counsel the transcript,
(27:08):
your honor, May I approach the witness? You may? I
am handing the witness the transcript, specifically referencing the very
top header. Please look over the document carefully and look
up at me when your memory has been refreshed. I
am handy the witness Defense Exhibit one for identification purposes.
(27:33):
You recognize this document I just handed you the City
of San Antonio rap sheet report. I'm a little I
don't know why she's here. I'm a little freaked out.
Did you look at the rap sheet? I'm sorry, what
do you want me? If you could please look? If
(27:55):
you could please look at the rap sheet? You recognize
this sheet? No, I've never seen this before in my life.
I'm retrieving the document from the witness, Mr c. This
credit card was retrieved from the defendants. UM, I'm assuming
(28:20):
that's true. You have to ask, offer sand Lopo. This
is your credit card. It is my credit card. No
further questions, Ron, I think right about now, the people
that went first or like thinking, boy, I'm glad I
went first and not and not last. Um, because we
(28:41):
will continually make it harder and harder for you. So
you try to get me, you try to impeach me
on a rap sheet that has somebody else's name on it,
that goes back to yesterday with me saying don't do
the hard stuff. Okay, you're not ready yet. I thought
it would be in this of all under six o nine,
(29:02):
I told you not to do six o nine. We
specifically said that it's okay. I had the credit card
backup plan. I practice, we did have the credit card
backup plan, and I want to really applaud you for that.
I didn't like the laughing. I'm sorry, right because it's
out of the moment. Okay, I was doing stuff to
take you out of the moment, but I wanted you
(29:23):
to stay in the moment. If you want to be
able to compete and then go be a good trial lawyer,
we're gonna need to get rid of that, right. You
got to think that every single time you're directing or crossing,
or its opening or closing, it's real. Let's be serious. However,
having said that, you have an incredible presence, Genesis, I
(29:44):
think I think all week long everyone's been saying the
same thing, that your presence is pretty amazing. So let's
just work on that little thing so that you're so
that you can keep the room exactly where you want them,
which is eating out of the palm of your hand,
house of your presence. Everyone started cry from stress starting.
Not everyone cried. Not everyone cried. Yes, we caught up
(30:10):
with Genesis later. So I did feel prepared going in.
I did know what I was doing, but I didn't
feel as confident as I did going in that Monday.
By Friday, I was trying to stay afloat. I was
trying to, you know, get everything out, and I did
do everything correctly except that I was laughing. I was
(30:32):
very nervous. I wasn't as you know, confident and as
assertive as I should have been, and I think that's
just because I was overwhelmed and I did start crying.
A J told me I needed to be more assertive,
and I think that's one thing I struggled with. I
wasn't being the advocate that I needed to be for
Professor A J or for our coaches. Um. So I
didn't realize that I was, I guess, not meeting the
(30:55):
expectations that they had wanted because I wasn't being asserted.
So I don't know what maybe they thought, Oh, you know,
she doesn't have what it takes. She she doesn't get angry,
and I know that I have what it takes. I
just wasn't showing it all. Right, A right, are you
(31:28):
ready order? Can you say your name please? My name
is Cole Dobby, your honor, okay, and when you're ready
to getting your cross, you may begin. Obviously on the
night of August, you went out with a friend. I
met a friend. You met a friend, and that friend
was Veronica J. She's just a friend. There's nothing going on.
(31:52):
We're just friends. And you two went out to a
bar that night. Did you were call making a nine
one one call that night? I definitely did. When your
guy robbed me. Would seeing a transcript of that one
call refresh your memory? Approached witness Shaan. If you can
read that, and once you're done refreshing your memory, can
you look back at me. You two were robbed. We
(32:16):
were by that guy over there, and these two individuals
when they robbed you, they brandished a gun. I'm sorry,
I said again. The two individuals who robbed you, one
of them brandished a gun. Oh, they both had guns.
Both had guns. Is your testimony today that both the
individuals had guns? Yes, I approach the witness Shan. Obviously,
(32:38):
this is a transcript of your one call from the
night of August. By direct your attention to line number ten.
If you can read along silently as I read aloud,
they pointed a gun, took our stuff and run away.
Did I read that correctly? So they pointed a gun
at you that night? They pointed a gun. Each one
(33:01):
of them had a gun. They them two people had
a gun. Each Each of them pointed a gun at
me and Veronica guns they if I may continue, when
you saw them, you weren't able to get a good
(33:21):
look at either of them. That's a fast statement. They
don't have a gun in our face. It all happened
so fast, it's really quick. Now on direct examination, you
said that you got a good look at one of
their faces. You never saw the police report. Now at
(33:43):
the gas station, you saw police officers arrest to individuals. Yeah,
I think that's right. And at that moment of the arrest,
you did not identify either of the defendants as the
man arrested. I did not. For the question, arre m
(34:14):
Mariella and Sinas was the first to arrive this morning,
I can open my binder and have things. In fact,
she was the first to arrive every morning during the week,
quietly taking copious notes and working with the three l's
on her trial strategy. So, yeah, all eyes are on you,
but they're all eyes on you because you're the boss, right,
(34:35):
You're the boss. Mario ELA's goal is to become a prosecutor,
to try cases in a Special Victims Unit. Okay, please
state your names, okay, and as soon as you're ready,
you may begin your cross. Thank you, good afternoon, Mr Cy.
(34:58):
On August fifteen of twenty nineteen, you were at Barbara restaurant.
I was at a restaurant was named after a horse.
But I can't remember if Barbara is a horse or not.
I don't know. I don't remember. If I show you
a copy of your on one called transcript, would you
be able to maybe refresh your memory with that if
(35:20):
it's in there? Yeah, I think it might. And on
that night, after you were getting some dinner and a
drink with your friend Veronica, you decided the best decision
was probably to walk her home. I didn't want her
to walk home. What is relevance? Evidence is relevant if
(35:41):
it a has any tendency to make a fact more
or less probable than it would be without the evidence,
and be the fact is of consequence in determining the action.
This is irrelevant because it establishes the night and his
ability to recall the events of that night. Okay, So
(36:03):
when the guns were pointed at you, it was frightening, terrifying.
It was hard to focus. I thought I was going
to die. All you could really focus on was that gun.
I looked right down that barrel and I was just
waiting for the blast. So you couldn't really focus on
(36:24):
anything other than that gun. No. I was also focused
on Veronica j because I was walking her home to
protect her, and I couldn't against that animal. And you
were held at gunpoint. Yeah, and being held at gunpoint
made it difficult to be able to focus on anything
but your safety and veronica safety. I was there for
(36:46):
Veronica the whole time, but it was hard to focus
on anything other than that gun. Being held at gunpoint. Yes,
no further questions, your honor. You didn't let it deter you.
Her objection. You know what you need to get in.
You know that you need it, and so you're going
(37:08):
to find a way to make it happen. So that
was pretty good. I'll say that your voice is awesome.
I love it. I love the way that you projected.
I mean, you fill up this room, and it takes
a lot to do that because you're you're you know,
you're self conscious about your voice when you start out.
Just remember that keep it, never let that go, Never
let the way that you walk up and back and
(37:29):
up to their up to his face and put it
in all that you're own in a courtroom. That's exactly
what you have to do. I asked them in a
comment because I don't like gushing over first year of
trial team members too much. The reason why I think
I'm so impressed is because I remember you from Monday,
afraid to death, from the very first assignment. I would
(37:50):
not have predicted on Monday what you did today. You
had an amazing day. Thank you how to go in there?
I feel it went well. It was definitely a little intimidating.
I enjoyed it, but there were a few hiccups and
(38:12):
definitely things that you can't really plan for. I didn't
rehearse and rehearse to the point of memorization because I
knew that Dean a. J Was going to throw some
things in there that we we there's no way to rehearse,
so to rehearse to the point of memorization really wasn't
worth it for me having the three l's to be
able to listen to me over at least enough to
tell me what I'm technically doing wrong without knowing what's coming.
(38:34):
What do I want to work for a while prosecuting,
and eventually, after I spend a while prosecuting, working appeals
for wrongful conviction. The worst thing a person can do
is is knowingly put someone away the wrong way. Monday,
we came together and we started from scratch. I want
(38:57):
you to think ing a little bit of time that
we've been together, where you were, who you were, and
where you are right now. And I want to ask
you this question, and I want you to just have
this introspection. I like where I'm going, I like where
(39:22):
I am. I look forward to the next challenge. If
you say yes to all three of those, we have
work to do starting on Saturday. If you didn't say
yes to all three of those, you need to come
see me, because this isn't for you. We are going
(39:48):
to work you harder than you did this week. Some
of you, several of you cried happy sad tears either
today or yesterday or this week. You're going to cry more.
(40:08):
You're gonna be upset at me, You're gonna be upset
at yourselves. You're going to be upset at each other.
You know you better than any of us. Can you
take that kind of criticism? Can you be upset with
(40:29):
your partner and still be respectful of them. If you
can where your home. If you can't, I need you
to come see me, and I want you to ask
yourself if you like where you are and if you
are and we're in a good place. The next day,
(40:58):
the entire team gets together at a local bar in
San Antonio. The two els are burned out, but they're happy.
The three all spot the rookies a drink and pat
them on the back. Welcome to the team, rookies. Everyone
is anxious to find out who's going to be assigned
(41:20):
to the upcoming trial competitions that are being held around
the country. It was the hardest thing I've ever done.
He was being extra, We'll put it that way. He
was being extra as the witness. It was a lot.
I cried, but it was like a good cry. And
about two minutes before I went in the court room,
(41:43):
my high heel broke and he had to walk back
and forth in the court room, and it was dreadful
every single time the next time I'll got there. For
one were super true. The three els prepared us. The
three els helped us. We probably would not have been
as confident, and we didn't of them like right before,
like you got this, Like it's fine. I think we're
(42:04):
a solid group. I'm really excited to work with my
fellow two els um. But I think just combine us
with the three else and the support that they've shown
us and and we're gonna be solid. Yesterday was a lot.
I didn't cry in the room. I was trying before
I got in the room. I was reflecting like I
(42:27):
was raised by my my grandparents and they didn't go
past third grade. You know, they were born in the South,
raised in the South. They didn't even go past elementary school.
And I'm standing in the law school and people are
saying that you should be on a trial team. I
felt like a weight of you gotta do your pass,
you gotta just felt a weight of my family history,
(42:50):
or I just felt a weight like if you get
a chance to like sneak in the room, you gotta
try to do your best because you don't always get
a chance to even get in the room because they
spent time to slammed the door. So this is new
for me because I don't like to not know things.
I don't like to be on not on top of
my game. I don't like to not do stuff right.
So this is stressful. When I don't get it right
(43:10):
the first time, I can't give up have Vanessa s
oh I cried, There was no I was on the
ViRGE of tears, like I cried. There's like a lot
of pressure whenever you're doing there's pressure on yourself because
you want to be a good advocate. And then there's pressure,
I guess, like all the external things because it's like
I want to do well. I want to do well
(43:32):
this course. I want to like show that I'm good.
But looking back, I wouldn't have changed anything. So I
think it's important to mess up because it's important to
mess up how and something that doesn't matter or affect anyone.
So I want you could be a better advocate and
attorney later on when your client is actually relying on you,
(44:00):
we know how hard you wor kind of like a
little bit of a hell. We thanks everybody for coming out.
We went to seven competitions last year. Our team this year,
we're gonna go to eight competitions in the fall. I
truly believe that our time is now. I know that
Jason believes, at Maritza and Dad and all the coaches,
(44:24):
we believe that our time is now to our two
else before I tell the three ls where they're going.
Every single three L will tell you the same thing.
They sacrificed a ton for their personal development and for
their team, for themselves and for each other. You have
(44:46):
to be able to do the same thing if you
want to be great. And we started working, you know, Monday.
So for the National Trial League representing us, there are
gonna be Kenneth Robin said, hell Will, Stephanie and John.
(45:07):
The Battle of Experts was the next competition. It starts up.
We're gonna be represented by Andy v Jasmine and we're
gonna do something special. We're gonna add Cold of that list.
The witness for us. He's only got one year, but
you all saw him yesterday. He's are in that right.
(45:28):
We were waiting for yesterday to make this foul call
I'm gonna have. I really want to win. I want
to win all of these. Those are our competitions. Two wells.
I'm really proud of you. I'm happy to be your director,
your coach. I want you to work really hard. These
three l's have set they set a stage for you,
(45:53):
So let's get to work. Let's work hard. Let's work smart.
This last week is nothing like what I'm about to
put you through. This is like hell preparation week. Work
Stay with me, stay with us? All right, congratulations, All
that's congratulates, Gonna get to go to the Generally, law
(46:24):
students across the country are saying goodbye to their friends
and family and they're free time. It's all about the
team and the case. That is a great murder scenario
for a mock trial because it's not your obvious, premeditated
murder that was not supposed to happen. When they're done
(46:46):
beating him to death, I think the de Niro character
sort of says to the pesci character, would you do
that's next time? On class Action. Class Action is a
production of I Heart Radio and Sound Argument. Created, produced, written,
(47:08):
and edited by Kevin Huffman and Lisa Gray. Executive producers
are Taylor Chacogne and Katrina Norvell. Additional story production by
Jennifer Swan, Kristen Cabrera, Jason Foster, and Wendy Nardi. Sound design,
editing and mixing by Evan Tyre and Taylor Chacogne. This
(47:30):
episode had additional field production by Kristen Cabrera. For more
podcasts from I heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app,
Apple podcast, or wherever you get your favorite shows.
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