Ep5: A Ram in the Bush

The undergraduate trial season at Dillard University gets off to a disastrous start as Hurricane Ida lays waste to the campus, forcing students into hotels for safety.  Coach Adria Kimbrough must quickly re-assemble her team and get them prepped for its first competition at Ole Miss., where generations ago, Black students were denied entry.  Times change and the Dillard team rallies, but some victories are bittersweet.

Learn more about the schools, programs and special guests:

Dillard University Pre-Law Program

American Mock Trial Association 

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Visit our show page for transcripts and more details about the series at ClassActionPod.com

Follow host Katie Phang on Twitter @KatiePhang and Instagram @KatiePhang.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Class action is a production of I Heart Radio and
sound argument. If Ida's winds verify that one fifty mile
per hour landfall today, it will tie for the strongest
hurricane on record to strike the Louisiana coast and the
strongest to strike the Bayou parishes since Betsy. We are
keeping an eye on some of these power puls here

(00:22):
a concern that potentially those could come down. And we've
got category three gusts, flooding rains that are recurring with
flood mornings in the city. Tornado possibilities as well. This
is going all night long. This is not gonna stop
until tomorrow morning. And the longer the winds blow like this,
the more damage there is to the infrastructure. For most areas,

(00:44):
you're looking at between ninety two and nine eight percent
of residents without power. Flooding made some streets of passable.
This is one of the many trees uprooted by Hurricane
Ida's strong winds throughout the New Orleans area. The hurricanes
devastating impact is obvious. I left New Orleans with three

(01:07):
days of clothes, thinking I was coming right back, and
now it's two weeks later and I don't have anything
that is UM Professional to wear. My name is Adria
Kimbro and I am the coach for the Dealer University
mock trial team. Today is September the twentieth. Our campus
is still closed. Our students have all evacuated to their

(01:31):
respective homes or to some place that they decided to evacuate.
The city UM is still very much in recovery. I
just got my trash picked up on Saturday, the first
time in probably three weeks. We had students who had
family members and loved ones who lost folks to COVID

(01:54):
and then to follow that with a hurricane almost a
Category five this year, so sort of back to back.
So the campus will reopen on Friday and in person
classes will resume on Monday. But certainly what that means
is it relates to our team, is that we are

(02:16):
a bit behind. What is it? What doesn't kill you
makes you stronger. I'm Katie Fang. This is episode five
of Class Action. A ram in the Bush. It's a desert.

(02:53):
It's a desert, one week after the campus of Dillard
University in New Orleans was shut down because of the
damage my Hurricane Ida. It it hurts, That's just it hurts.
Students like DeAndre Bell are making the best of it.
This is lawless chapel. This is where we hold all

(03:14):
of our church services and things of that nature. If
you look, you can see that the big main window
at the point or the tip of the chapel was
blown out. There was a big crossing there, blown out,
all that kind of stuff. They had to patch it
up with wood. These are the gardens apartments. You can't
see from here, but like some of the rules are
slightly caved in because the tree branches and things like that.

(03:36):
They have as bestos in the walls, and the hurricane
shook up the walls enough to release that into the air,
which is why we had to move into the hotel
to begin with. All right, good morning everyone, Welcome back,
Welcome back. I hope that you all have gotten something
to eat. Go back if you feel so inclined, because
we pay for it, so you might as well eat it.

(03:58):
The point is the same, The principle is the same,
while there is truth to it. Twice as good as what,
twice as good as home. I mean, let's just be
frank about it. So we're saying twice as good as
the standard, which is white, right, that's I mean, that's
really what it means. And so why is white the standard?

(04:21):
Why should it be? Why should it be instead of
measuring ourselves in comparison to others, we figure out what
our standard is and work to meet it every time.
If it's excellence, it's excellence period. You all know the
history of the team. You know, we started the team

(04:41):
in one year. The second year we made it to
the opening round Championship, which was just like ridiculous. So
once the team had achieved to hit that benchmark, then
it was like, well, now we want to go to
nationals because we've we've been to orcs, so let's nationals
is the next thing. And I think that eard year
and since it's always been nationals, nationals, nationals, and that

(05:05):
makes sense, like that's an admirable goal. Sterling's point was
that Nick Saban is not focused on winning. My name
is Lashing, my graduating senior um. This would be my
fourth and final year on this team. This is DeAndre Here,
I am a junior. This is my third year at

(05:25):
Dilan Montreal. This is a Maya Runswick. I'm a graduating
senior as well, and it is my fourth and final
year one value that I've learned is being able to
lead from every position. I didn't start off as the
president or vice president on this team. I started off
as a middle attorney or an opening attorney. I've been
a witness, I've been a timekeeper, I've been a closer

(05:46):
and opener, and I've had to learn how to help
lead my team even when I didn't have all of
the accolades to show. For you, DeAndre here for me.
One of the biggest takeaways I've gotten from mock trial
is the ability to use my voice for something that's
not for me, you know what I'm saying. Growing up
as a church boy from Texas, there are a lot
of flashy things that we do in the church that

(06:08):
don't necessarily translate well into the courtroom. So learning how
to adjust and modify different approaches has definitely been something
that is helped me grow in the mock trial. Let's
think about what we can do today for the task
at hand. Again, I'm just mesmerized by this because we
talked so much about the endgame, and we don't always

(06:30):
spend as much time talking about how the doing the
things that we need to do to get there. What's
the most important lesson you take away from having coach
Adria and having been on this team, this kim Bro
has she has been very influential in my life. She's

(06:52):
what the old people will say, she's a ram in
the bush, like she's always there. She's very much behind
the scenes. She's the person you know who's looking out
for you when you think nobody's looking out for you.
But I would say the most important lesson I got
from Ms Kimbro was really like, never to doubt myself.

(07:17):
So I'm thinking perhaps maybe let's do something a little
different this year, like maybe we don't talk as much,
and let's be clear the goal is the same, but
instead taking that same energy and focusing it on what
we're doing right now. What are we doing in this practice,
this boot camp, what are we gonna be doing on
Monday at practice. As far as I know, Dillard is

(07:41):
the only HBCU other than Howard who has made it
to an opening round championship UM. And so I'm hopeful
that there will be more teams, more HBCUs that will
consider mock trial teams because I think it's a great activity.
More Over, it's rare for us to see teams that

(08:02):
have African American students on the teams, even from other institutions.
It's just not something that we see very often. And
you know, we could espouse all the reasons why that
might be, but certainly it makes for a learning experience
in a different kind of way for our students because
they're often in these spaces where they are competing with

(08:25):
and competing against students who are from different backgrounds, both racially, ethnically, geographically,
and otherwise. Do you think that you're preparing them in
some way by managing expectations Because I'm a practicing attorney
trial lawyer. You're a practicing attorney, and so you and
I've been into the courtrooms we as in women and

(08:47):
women of color are most certainly still the minority in
the legal profession. So do you think you're kind of
preparing them, like managing their expectations about what to expect
because the percentage is woefully low for people of color
in the liqual professional. Absolutely. I always remind them, I'm like,
this is what it's gonna be, guys, this is it You.

(09:09):
At least you have the community of being on the
team with people who have similar experiences. You will be
the only one. Every place that I have ever practiced,
I have been the only one. Most of my practice
has been. UM in federal court, there's I mean, there's
no women period like any color. And if you find one,

(09:29):
I mean to see another black woman. Even in places
in the South where you have, you know, larger concentrations
of black people. Um, you would think there may be
some diversity showing up in in certain spaces, and it
is not. And so I just remind them, like, this
is what it's going to be. I think that's important.
I mean, it kind of goes back to the point

(09:50):
I made earlier about you know, believing that you number one,
deserved to be at the table and number two that
you can compete. And that to me is what being
a part of being upon this team means. I do
feel as if New Orleans raised me in some sense.
You know, some people call this the city of Sin,

(10:11):
people say it's Las Vegas with regardless, you know, there's
so much here that New Orleans has to offer, and
when you feel the city, there's a different kind of
power and connection that you have here. UM. So this
is the Gentilly area. You will find that many hbc
s across the country are in quote unquote hoods Um

(10:32):
Howard is a good example. Dial It is a good example.
So there are sometimes when we're on campus, he maybe
a gunshot. There are some students who don't feel as safe.
But then you have students like me who are more
than willing to, you know, be like, hey, I got you,
welcome with me, come with many things like that. At

(11:02):
the very beginning, I knew very little. I knew nothing
about I mean, the Dealer montrial team is the first
and only team I've ever coached. I did not do
my trial as an undergrad, so I mean I came
to this just with an idea, but not with a
whole lot of experience. Thank God for Judge Reyes. He
had done some coaching at the law school level, but

(11:24):
had never done any coaching at the undergraduate level. Okay,
let's unpack that. Let's start with unfair prejudice. In this
particular case, we have a case of arson. And let's
say there is a really graphic photograph or someone burned

(11:44):
to a crisp down to their bones where there's no
human flesh left to discern because it's all charred. That
sounds like a really gruesome photograph and I'm the prosecutor.
I want to present this to the jury to make

(12:05):
them absolutely hate the defendant. And so that first year
we went to competition, I was like, oh, we miss this, this, this, this,
So the whole time I was taking notes like, Okay,
I'm watching, I'm observing. So, Renee, what's your objection to

(12:27):
this photographs? Objection you're on a more prejudicial and providence
and why is that? Because the probity value of this
picture it will inflame and mislead the jury. They Adria
and Judge Kern Reese play a familiar role for the
students their family. Adria is the devoted and sometimes demanding mom,

(12:50):
sometimes the protective big sister. And Judge Reese, well, he's
that wise old owl of an uncle who wears a
sweater and comfortable shoes on his days off from Civil
District Court in Orleans Parish. And it's appealed to prejudice
versus reason, and Michelleton wish your response to them together,

(13:11):
they don't get rattled and they hold their team to
high standards. Just drawing upon experience as a trial litigator,
you always have to be able to maintain your composure.
There will be times when people will shock you. There
will be times when people will anger you. There will
be times when cases can get unbelievably sad and you

(13:34):
run through the range of human emotion. But you always
have to be a professional, and that's what I stressed
with them, And you always have to be prepared to
go forward. Something I tell lawyers and go it all
the time. I don't tell you how to prove your case.
I just tell you it. Put your case on. Now.
If you think that the testimony of the carna it's

(13:57):
sufficient to carry your burden of proof, which is roof
beyond a reasonable doubt in a criminal case, then you
don't need the picture. But if you want to die,
all the eyes and cross all the teas, and if
the judge doesn't let it in, but at least I
put on my case to try to establish that I

(14:17):
have the testimony of the card and I have a
picture of the person who died, and the jury had
the benefit of that to come to their decision, and
I will have done everything that I could do to
prove my case. Dillard, like more than six hundred undergraduate
mock trial teams across the country will be competing in

(14:38):
the American Mock Trial Association's tournament. The team will practice
and try the same exact case for the next eight months, competing, refining,
racking up points that will hopefully lead to a birth
at the national Championship in April. Amya, you mentioned that

(14:59):
you're the captain of this team. Can you briefly tell
me what is this mock case? What is this trial
that you guys are going to be doing at regionals,
and what role are you going to play? So this
is an aggravated arson case. We have a defendant who
had spent about a year and a half building up

(15:20):
this bar that he got ownership of, and with COVID happening,
with people leaving or just the people in the community
not responding well to the changes that he was making,
he started losing money and wasn't able to pay back
a one million dollar loan that he took out from
the bank to make those renovations to the bar. He
had until you know, August first to pay back that

(15:43):
loan or payback a portion of that loan, and he couldn't.
But he knew that he had a fire insurance policy
worth one point five million dollars that would cover the
cost so the case is about whether or not he
did this and what his motive would have been. I
am the closing at Ernie who directs and crosses the
experts on the prosecution side, and then on defense, I

(16:06):
actually direct La Jane as both an expert and a
character witness, and I crossed an expert on that side
as well. So to be clear, everybody on the team
has to be prepared to switch hats and work as
a prosecutor or a defense attorneys. That right. Yes. The

(16:27):
roots of what is now called Dillard University date back
to the end of the Civil War. The school was
founded by the Methodist Episcopal Church and the American Missionary
Association in New Orleans. The school was known as Straight University,
and in eighteen seventy five, towards the end of the
reconstruction era, had its own law school. Walter Kimborough President

(16:50):
Deala University of New Orleans. Part of the historic legacy
of Dealer University, one of the precursor institutions Straight University.
Two of the graduates were behind a plus versus Ferguson. Okay,
so that's just a part of this institution that addressed
those kinds of issues of racial justice. In eight Plusy

(17:12):
versus Ferguson was brought before the United States Supreme Court.
Homer Plusy was from New Orleans. He was arrested in
an act of civil disobedience he refused to sit in
a separate train car for black passengers. It was an
action that could have easily gotten him lynched. Graduates from
Straight University formed a citizens committee to fight the case,

(17:34):
and they hired white attorneys who argued that this law
and others like it, implied that black people were inherently
inferior and were second class citizens. They lost that case
by a vote of seven to one. The court's decision
upheld the so called Separate but Equal doctrine, which cleared
the path for racist politicians to enact vile and de

(17:58):
meeting segregationist policy known as the gym Crow Laws throughout
the South. Yet and bid these hardships the plus The
decision inspired generations of African American attorneys to fight for
racial and social justice. I'm the daughter of civil rights
generation parents. I grew up in Mobile, Alabama. It is

(18:21):
the home of the last slaveship that was illegally brought
to this nation. It is also the home of the
last reported clan lynching of Michael Donald in the eighties.
There were things that were happening in the community that
I grew up in and that just didn't feel right,
and I wanted to find a way to be a
part of that solution. I think when the legal profession

(18:45):
and the judiciary starts to look more like the nation,
we may see different outcomes. The separate but equal law
was overturned in nineteen fifty four in the Brown versus
Board of Education case, a case argued by Chief Counsel
through Good Marshal. Shortly afternoon, Earl war On, the Chief

(19:06):
Justice of the United States, began to read a unanimous
opinion of the Supreme Court ruling in five cases in
which five Negro children sought the right to go to
the same schools as white children. The Cartes said separate
educational facilities are inherently unequal. We do believe that this
decision in itself will encourage the people to take further

(19:29):
steps with our litigation in miniats. By that time, Dillard
University no longer offered a law degree, but the pre
law program and its relatively new mock trial team is
a vital part of the university's mission, so that the
history is I think very important, and I think there
are things that I've tried to do to make sure

(19:49):
that we can make their history living. So, for example,
doing the pre law for a ram to me is
a living way to remember what happened is straight. I
can always and reference it right back to straight to say,
we had a law school, we had these folks who
were involved in place versus ferguson, So that becomes a
natural linkage for us. So I look for those kind

(20:11):
of ways of saying, how do we remember our history
in a modern sense and move forward with it today.
So if you didn't get rules of evidence, there's some
on the back table in the mock trial room. They
should be already whole punched. You can add it to
your finder. We're gonna go through these and then um
the lovely lodging they Shelton has some examples for us,

(20:32):
I think on relevancy. Yes, yes, yes, has some examples.
I would argue some of our students if they went
other places. First of all, they wouldn't even have this opportunity.
They wouldn't know it existed. They might not feel comfortable
to be on the team. So they've gotten the raw skills.
But then I think there's a level of confidence building
that's being done because it's you know, to tell them

(20:53):
that you can compete on this stage and any other
questions about Canary travel weekend. Okay, how some time to
do I have here? I use that sup but like yes, yes, well,
I mean we can talk more about it, but I
think that's prefer Yeah, there maybe some variation that could work,

(21:17):
but the suit is beautifore. We'll make sure that you're
appropriately attire so you feel comfortable because we're sevent pelgra
and eligible students, So we have students who literally they
don't have a suit to compete in it, and Andrean
has given students her suits so they would have something
appropriate to compete in. Once we bring out of the groups,
I'm gonna go get the my trial closet, so I

(21:40):
don't bring that in here for folks to take a
look at, Renee. Did you touch real quick on? Colors
of suit? Very acceptable? And colors are like undershirt or
like you know, lass and stuff. Yeah, I mean I
think dark color is the best. You know, black blue, gray,
I always say outside of it, So I mean it's

(22:03):
all of those things that would have been barriers other
places that they like, I can't be on this team,
I don't have the ability to go. Or do we
take care of all those barriers so that they can
really focus on developing the craft. And I think that's
that becomes the value added for them to be at
a place like building. So I look at several lawyers

(22:29):
throughout history. Of course, just the third good Marshal. He
was an outful man, very powerful man in terms of politics,
even in the church. So he is of course one
of the main lawyers I look up to, especially because
of his profound speech, especially when it came to giving arguments,
very profound a speaking, especially in court. Then of course
you have Johnny Cochrane. I do look up to him.

(22:53):
He is the quintessential lawyer in terms of you know,
defense and suave while doing you'll learn ms kimbro It
will the sport of Maxstrow doesn't really allow for that
kind of comfort from black people unfortunately. But Johnny Carker
was the type person he go up say what he
had to say, sit back down on and people be
like WHOA, Like, oh my gosh, exactly, Hello, could you

(23:17):
transfer me to the office of Senator Maria Cantwell, thank you. Hello.
My name is Walter Dixon the fourth. Can you transfer
me to Senator Corey Pooker. I'm calling today to act
that you support h R thirty two nine four s
Ignite HBCU Excellence Act. As an HPCU student, this bill

(23:39):
will enhance the experience of me and my classmates on campus. Additionally,
the Ignite HBCU Excellence Act will be a critical step
to bringing HBCU buildings and research facilities up to date
and provide the dynamic talented And how are y'all doing?
Very good? How are you? How are the calls going good?

(24:03):
I've been able to really get to speak to any
senators directly, but we have so today we're having a
joint UM text and phone banking event UM where the
senors are going to be contacting senators and representatives in
support of the HBCU Ignite at UM, which is going
to help provide key infrastructure repair and needs for hbc

(24:25):
USE nation wide. Your face, y'all want to do that?
Like you don't have to do it today, but maybe
like I can create a zoom. Hey, I'm Caitlin Douglas.
I am a transfer student. Um. I am twenty seven
years old. I am technically a sophomore, but a junior.

(24:45):
This is my first semestery Dealard. I joined the martial
team because I'm a strategic thinker. I'm a logical person,
and I said, what would help me socialize? Help me
learn the environment of Dealer. So I do a lot
of student engagement. Dealer students are brilliant. They're very intelligent,

(25:05):
very smart, very mature. They keep their ear to the
ground of what's going on at the other campuses. To
y'all know Howard's protesting. We know Tuskegeees protesting too. I
don't know if y'all need Let's figure out these HBCUs
that are really vocal about the conditions at their schools
and see if we can connect with them and amplify

(25:27):
it and do like a like a video. I am
heavily involved in activism back home in Streeport, Louisiana. After
my first experience with undergraduate studies, I took about a
four year hiatus. I was smart as a whip, but
because I was depressed and I didn't have that support,

(25:49):
and then I had hardships. I had two family members
that a childhood friend died. One was killed. My cousin
was shot two weeks ago. He now will never have
the two for his thomb and they had to remove
his appendix. He's a truck driver. My cousin. That same
cousin has been beaten by the police just because they
got the wrong guy. My sister's boyfriend was murdered in

(26:12):
front of her. I had to go to the scene
and see that. I look at it is, I'm running
towards this direction and then just obstacles are like pushing
me back to street for it. Talk about how we
can get more in their face, y'all want to do that.
I'm a troublemaker to a lot of people, especially because

(26:34):
before I worked with Power Coalition back home, I'm from
street Port, Louisiana. UM, I was very heavily involved in protesting,
marching and grassroots activism, and so I'm being the pretty
aggressive most of the times because I just I stand
in on what I believe in. Yeah, it's good trouble.

(26:54):
I made good trouble. So I just so where are
we now? So this is the hotel parking lot. Unfortunately,
dealers students were working with it, working what we have,
but we have to walk just a little bit to

(27:15):
get to the actual hotel. I hope you all don't mind.
Downtown is a walk, and I will say I like
to walk, so I'm not really too bothered by it
because you know, it's difficult we walk down street. Now,
what you don't see while this daytime is there are
homeless people that do sleep alongside this, so you know

(27:36):
it's dangerous because it can't get dark really fast. But
with that in mind, I feel like a lot of
students have begun to use something of a buddy system,
you know, walking their parents, driving their parents, things of
that nature, just to ensure that people are safe. This

(27:56):
right here is my room. It's pretty clean. A problem
with that, but this is where I lay my head
at night. Yeah, it's literally just a standard hotel room.
No amenities necessarily for students or anything like that. Just
simple living quarters. Your mother won't sit on the bed,

(28:17):
but you're simple living quarters. Usual things. But I try
to make it as close to home as possible. So
I got some season it right here. Um, A couple
of sauce packets and things in case I get nuggets,
so you know, whatever the case may be. UM, A
couple of cups, so whenever I go out to take
a little souvenir cup, putting it right here. Students that
do it were allowed to bring some of their items

(28:38):
from the norm to the hotel. So I brought my microwave. Um,
I brought a second refrigerator because the one here is
absolutely tiny. It's just some left food from last night. Obviously,
drawers right here. I don't necessarily use them all too often,
because you know, I don't want to just have stuff
sitting here. But I do have like my belts and
my ties for whenever mock trial prime example, it's my

(29:00):
little tie box, so I have a bunch of different
colored ties and things of that nature. I do have
some snacks right here, so I can explain these are
not all mine. These are also some of my friends.
You know. Again there are times where I have to
link up with them outside of school. So this is
our snack drawer in case we need to get a
bite to eat or something before we leave, you know,

(29:22):
something like that. Disregard to our promise, those are not
all mine. This is like my quote unquote library, if
you will. I love to read titles. Absolutely so we
have black Power, which is a book by Qualmy Terray,
um Stocally, car Michael, and Charles V. Hamilton's part of
my politics is helping black people, just like everybody else

(29:44):
is getting helped, and so they have that kind of
background would be very essentral moving forward. Barack Obama, Yes,
I got this book for my birthday actually, so as
you know, I started telling my family wants to run
for president. Man Barack Obama has been a big influence
for me terms of doing that. The man did it all.
My dad once said, and I disagree with this, but

(30:05):
he was like, if you know Barack Obama was perfect
and everybody had a problem with them, then you're gonna
have to work even harder because you're not as perfect.
And he's right, absolutely, but like Barack Obama wasn't perfect either,
and the Promise Land is a prime example of that.
And now look at them, you know, for in President
United States, he was a lawyer, he was doing all
these big things. Naturally, it's some shoes that you know,

(30:26):
I'd like to fill into. And departure time is set
for three and either departure would be in front of
the books. I guess it's Halloween weekends and you can
feel the excitement in the air. The team's first competition

(30:46):
is coming up at the University of Mississippi Ole MISS.
This is their first in person tournament and more than
a year, and for a lot of the students it's
their first time ever competing without Zoom. It's a big deal.
It takes about five hours worth sold to get to
Oxford a week where all miss located. There will be

(31:08):
a midpoint stock for dinner. Based upon our calculations, Jackson,
Mississippi appears to be like a bad way point, so
we'll be scouting out places to eat in Jackson, but
probably Adrea is sending two teams to Mississippi. Team A
features DeAndre and Caitlin, who will play an expert witness.

(31:32):
Team B is led by Amaya and Lagene. Both teams
will be coached by Judge Reese and Alicia Fryson. The
biggest thing is jelling and becoming incredibly comfortable in a courtroom.
It's supposed to be a space that's supposed to beat
professionalism into you and make you feel like you don't belong,
especially for black people and people of color. It's a

(31:54):
space institutionally rooted in disenfranchising people of color and I
really intentfully wanted to be a part of this team
to help train future black litigators to embrace that space,
like you belong here and we're gonna make it work.

(32:15):
It rewrites history, It takes back all that strength from
our ancestors. The Diller team is the first to arrive
and they take their seats right down in front, something
unthinkable a generation ago. James H. Meredith is formally enrolled
at the University of Mississippi, ending one chapter in the

(32:36):
federal government's efforts to desegregate the university. The town of
Oxford is an armed can following riots that accompanied the
registration of the first Negro in the universities one year history.
Much of this film record was destroyed when our cameraman,
Gordon Jordry, was attacked, but he didn't salvage pictures of
Governor Ross Barnett at the sea. The governor thought the

(32:58):
court order long and middle fifty years ago, well, maybe
go back to about three. We wouldn't have been here
at all. I mean, that's that's a given. And actually
I was a child. I caught the tail in the
segregation and some of it's after math, and it wasn't
that pretty. It was humiliating, the humanizing, embarrassing, mortifying, and

(33:20):
every other superlative you can come up with. UM. So,

(33:43):
first off, I just want to say give a big
thank you for everyone who decided to come to our
tournament this year. We're really excited to have y'all here
and thank you for coming to the second annual Chucky
Mullins Uh Spectacular Invitational. First, a few things, Uh, the
University of Mississippi does have a mask protocol. Here. We

(34:04):
have six rooms. With that being said, we're going to
start with the challenge order. So Rhodes A, who would
you like to challenge? We would like to talk okay?
And you see Knox, which side would you like to be? Okay?
And that leads us to delay day. Who would you

(34:26):
like to challenge? All right? Um? And which side of
the case would you like to be? All right? And
then you maybe okay? And which side of the case
would you want? Is our first time being back and
I just really missing people in real life, so we
just kind of wanted to introduce ourselves, you know, just

(34:47):
to get this is so this last time ago? So
I don't know, ohiaya you got to Dylan Aversy, Yeah,

(35:11):
what's your name, Mackenzie Lily lilying it here. There have
been times when we went to competitions and as an
all black team when there are other black people within,
like all white teams, being all black team is gonna

(35:32):
stand down and those people are gonna gravitate to you. Naturally.
People will be like, you know, I've been trying to
be an attorney for the past, like um two competitions.
I've been trying out, but you know, they've been kind
of just sticking me in this witness role. Or I'll
try to be an expert witness and they kind of
just want me to, you know, play the cook and
make it about like Southern style cooking or like soul

(35:55):
food cooking. You have people come up to us saying
like I'm being placed in this box. It's not what
we're noticing is, but what we're being told. If you
would buy your his close your eyes, praying your culture
as I do, and my Father God, we come to
you right now saying thank you, Father, thank you for
giving us this season, thank you for delivering us from

(36:15):
all sorts of hurt, harm, and dang Your Father, God,
we thank you for bringing us to this courthouse. We
thank you for this competition. We thank you for the
growth that we've had, the journey that we've been on.
We thank you Father God. But we're here now. Amen, Amen.
Glory kill kill kill blood makes the grass grow. Kill

(36:48):
kill kill blood makes grass Grassoula. With teams from all
over the South competing, the ole Miss courtrooms are positively
buzzing for Dillard. The action bounces from one courtroom to

(37:09):
the next. Team A is squaring off against ole Miss.
I mentioned earlier, So you have limited experience in fraud
and that's because you failed the Certified Fraud Examiner accreditation.
Isn't that correct? Yes, but that credential wasn't necessary now,
just to clarify, to be a forensic financial investigator, you
have to have expert level of knowledge and fraud. Isn't

(37:30):
that right? Yes? But I also I did get the
Certified Financial Forensics and I did that completing the exam
and doing our five thousand hours in the field. As
I mentioned earlier, Thank you for that, But my question
was very specific. You failed the Certified Fraud Examiner test,
but you need expert level fraud knowledge to testify about fraud.
Isn't that correct? This place I mentioned earlier that credential

(37:53):
wasn't necessary. Thank you. I have nothing for them. You're
being paid by the defense to be here today. Yes,
but that's the endered in my field, and in her
debut as a witness, Caitlyn Douglas is acting out the
role of the fire inspector, and your job was to
review Dr Webber's report. It was to review his investigation.

(38:13):
Is you also visited the scene, didn't you? But this
was three months after the fire had occurred, correct, That's correct,
And it actually made the scene a little better to
view because I was able to look at everything that
had transpired over a course of time. But within that
three months, alterations could have been down the hall. Dillard's

(38:33):
upper class members, La Jane and Amaya are already in
fighting form. May it please the court opposing counsel members
of the jury. These photos that I have in my hands,
and that were presented before you earlier in this trial,
show you exactly how beloved firefighter Jalen Williams died on

(38:54):
August one, two thousand twenty. The damages in these photos
show how the fire was started in the kitchen by
an accellert found in paint thinner. These damages show every
horrific dec I think it's important that there's a place
for lawyers that, you know, work with empathy, that sympathize

(39:17):
with their clients, that understand that there's more behind the story.
And I think whenever you get in that courtroom, it's
important that the person that's sitting at the defendant's table
that their story is portrayed in a way that that
makes the jury or the judge empathize or placed themselves
in their shoes. But what these photos can't show you

(39:41):
is the real damage that happened that night. You see,
when you go to breckon Ridge County Fire Department, you'll
find Jalen Williams locker empty. When you go to his home,
you'll see that his seat at the table is gone.
And when you talk to his parents, that's all you
how they'll never see his smiling face again. It was

(40:05):
easy for the defendant to forget that when she let
the match at Chuggy's, someone else's life could go up
in flames with it. It was easy for her to
forget because the only thing she was we're out trial today.
There was a story painted to you by the prosecution,
and I just want to go over that store. They
wanted to tell me the Dacode Sutcliffe walked around their

(40:29):
business and looked at everything They poured into it, pouring
into the lights for the business, having a new electrical
box installed, redoing the floor, revamping the bar, even opening
a patio area in a downstairs seating area. Decided to
open a can of paint dinner and spread it all
a way. And then after spreading that paint that or around.

(40:51):
They want you to believe that as she looked upon
this place, she decided to take a match and lighted.
Not only do they want you to believe that she
is the person who could have done this and that
she wanted her place to burn down, they want you
to believe that she would go to put it out.
She wanted this place burned down, but instead she went
to the firehouse to stop the fire. Ladies and gentlemen.

(41:15):
That is a story. There are three things that you
heard today from the prosecution. They talked about debt, They
talked about distress, and they talked about debt more than
the three elements they had to prove. But there's one
thing they left out, and that's doubt. Now let's talk
about that doubt that we see. It's in the back

(41:35):
of my head like this is the last, like this
is your last, like the first time you're getting in
the gate, for your last time of being on this team.
And of course that's always gonna like that's looming over
this whole entire competition, and you want to do your best,
of course, but I also want to be in the
moment and enjoy this competition. I don't want to be
so caught up in the competing aspect, like the competitive

(41:57):
I want to also have fun, because my will should
be fun. It's so fun now when you go into
that jury room and you deliberate over the evidence that
you have saw today, and you see that doubt, You
see the very thing the prosecution has tried to pull

(42:18):
the roll over your eyes forlor and we asked that
you delivered the only just verdict, not just for Jamie
and Williams, but to CoA subclick, that you find a
coda subclick, not guilty, because the prosecution didn't do the
job for Jamie. Willis Day didn't wait smoke to clean. Hey,

(42:46):
that's right. The judges in both rooms give high praise
to the Dealer team. We had some good attorney exchanges.
Uh Anthony and uh watching what's your nay? Sorry, Okay,
I'm sure you get it occasionally an you all had
a really good get back and forth there on the witnesses.

(43:12):
I enjoyed the witnesses. Make sure you keep eye contact
with the judges. Make sure you slow down. Some of
you speak really quickly. For us southern born lived people,
sometimes we don't talk that fast, so just slow it
down a little bit. But I thought y'all did a
really good job. I think you're all doing quite well.

(43:34):
Opening for the prosecution was good. It would occurred to
me at that point in time that I kind of
wish we had jurors and and and there was a
moment where I thought about asking everybody go sit over there,
going to the prosecution's first witness, very vibrant witness. And
enjoyed that that was very strong cross examination. Oh, I

(43:55):
really like when you're you're I'm sorry, thank you, but
that's not exactly what I asked. Let me reward that question. No,
I love that. That was great. I mean, what a
great way to deal with an evasive witness. I was
I was very impressed with that. On the other hand,
impeachment with the affidavit didn't quite go as well as
you planned him. These these are little little tidbits on

(44:18):
top of the basic thing, which is you guys did
a great job. Good luck out your head. I just
need some He has to go get the boxes. Yeah.

(44:42):
The team spills out onto some of the couches in
the hallways while lunch boxes are passed around, memorizing stuff
for the next round. You want to do one run
through name, but I think I should tell you something
would The young lady who was the middleist turning, She
said she really used and how we were all black
and a team of color as attorneys, all black open

(45:03):
tip of post. She said, I liked how all your
attorneys were with it made her feel really empowered as
a woman. She said, I feel really intimidated by men
in this space, and just to see all all women
attorney team and especially women of color, and she said
it was really impactful. That's great, especially coming from pastball

(45:26):
to let me keep um. Caitlyn Douglas, I think, first
of all, I'm very proud of my team. All the
practice really showed up today and I think we got
a chance to work out some of those nerves between
leaving campus, congregating on the bus and then getting into
the hotels and kind of getting comfortable and settled. So

(45:48):
I'm very proud of the outcomes. A Gene and DeAndre
have crossed me way harder and practice like they make
it to where you're prepared, and so I feel like
y'all are competing at the law school level. Comment. I
feel like it's because we have team members who who
push us, and that's important for somebody like me. But

(46:09):
their coaches are not about to let them get too overconfidence.
When you let that sit there and rest, you let
them set the tone for what's going on. They don't
your judge doesn't know your law. Your judge isn't judging out.
They're going like, okay, this is the state's bringing their case.
It's just how we're gonna go shut it down. Do
not respond back to the relevant issue on their grounds.

(46:32):
They have to prove that the purpose was too deep fraud.
If you burned down its own building and you ended
right there and you make them look stupid by letting
them know like you don't even know what and I
would walk all over them in the clothing. Well, everybody,
this this is the first round of the first tournament,

(46:55):
so there's always room for improvement. I thought something were
done very well. Some things were done okay, something needs
some work. I think that from a technical proficiency standpoint,
we did well. I thought you handled the objections well.
A lot of objections weren't made a lot from the

(47:19):
very first competition though I expected people to, you know,
just kind of let a little see how it goes well.
You know, you will come against teams that will be
well prepared, so especially at this this is this is
the first blush. It gets more interesting as we go overall.
You know, I was I was not displeased with the performance,

(47:41):
because if I was, I would let you know. As

(48:02):
the tournament moves on to the second day, Dillard is
clearly stacking up the winds. This is de Andre. Yes,
I know what my team score is. I think everyone
will be pleased with the outcome. My team the you
know me, Caitlin. Everybody is six and old, meaning we
won both ballots for all three rounds. So it's amazing.

(48:27):
And you can feel the confidence and the focus coming
through from their team huddles. He's covered suspicion and Madox
just want to say that he spilled bad? Did he not? Y,
you're going to do that to you? Didn't really good? Um, Alex,

(48:48):
you did good. You were a little combative and you
know that. Um. They're gonna if y'all need to make
any comments, y'all, y'all focus on this men and latin.
I'm gonna practice this runs cross boy, which it's this one. Mother. Yeah,
you were hired by the SCRECT. You were hired to
review the record of Officer Robert Right, Yes, I will.

(49:10):
You would agree with me that Officer Webber made a
determination of the way beany made y'all. Yeah, I just
thought of something. They're saying, medics Diddy in medics field accelerate.
They can't say that the cause of the fire wasn't accelerant.
What do we do? What do we mentioned that inclosed? Yes,

(49:34):
I think we should go in earlier. I need to
share those documents. That would be the time now it's right.
So I read a really interesting clip about or about Lagene,
about your voice and the tenor the tone, the volume

(49:57):
and the at how that gets construct rude and how
there's a judgment that comes especially for women when it
comes to how we use our voice literally sometimes how
do you use your voice? So as a small anecdote,
I was in court one time with a judge and
this judge knew me very well, and I was cross

(50:18):
examining a defendant, as you guys know, is very rare
and criminal court because defendants usually don't take the stand,
but he did and I was cross examining him. And
it was just a probation violation hearing, so there was
no jury, It was just the judge, but it was
a packed court room and the judge because the public
defender objected and said that I was badgering the witness,

(50:40):
which was really the defendant, right, And the judge goes, ah,
you know, I'm not really going to sustain that, but misspaying,
I'd asked that you stay behind the podium because I
had come out from behind the podium to be able
to approach the witness box where the defendant was testifying.
So what I did was, because it wasn't bolted down,

(51:00):
I just took the podium with me. So I moved
the podium closer to the witness box and I looked
at the judge and I said, I'm still behind the podium, judge.
So my question for you logen A is do you
feel offended when it's brought to your attention that you

(51:22):
sound aggressive or does it just kind of water off
your back, because you know that part of that is
just it's perception, right, it's because you're a woman, maybe
because you're a woman of color and somebody has a
problem with how you're using your voice. That is an
excellent question, Katie, because when we talk about this so often,

(51:47):
I'll bring up a small anecdote to just kind of
like go into how I personally feel about it. At
a tournament, keep in mind, my counsel, it's all women,
and we're all black women, and I think at that

(52:08):
time every witness we had was also a woman too.
So there's these three female attorneys, black female attorneys, and
a Maya says this all the time. She's like watching it.
Is always gonna do her best when she's going up
against a white man, like that's what they were. And

(52:28):
you know, I put my I put my poker face
on the whole time, you know, and I do what
I have to do. At the end of trial, one
of the opposing counsels, this young man, he comes up
to me, he shakes my hand really aggressively and says,
you're literally so scary. You are so scary, you know.

(52:55):
I'm trying not to agree act too much to it.
And I'm like, I hope I and on a bad way,
and he's like, um no, not really. It's just like
you were just really going after what you want. And
then he's like, they you just know too much, like
you just know a lie and that's just crazy. And

(53:17):
I'm like, okay, so I might not supposed to know enough.
Maybe you need to know what I know. The comments come.
It's not gonna it's not my first comment like that,
it's not gonna be my last. Those comments like that
we get all the time. You kind of just realize
it and you take it, and you very much take

(53:38):
it as a compliment, you know, because that's that's basically
what it is. They were threatened by you in some way,
shape or form. They weren't expecting you to give the
performance that you gave, so that that's them. That's all
on them. So yeah, it hurts in the moment, but
then you remember, but that's life, and I'm like, I'm

(54:00):
gonna get this regardless, so I'm gonna keep doing what
I'm doing. I still got a ten on that. On
whatever the part he said, I scared him, Matt, And
that's all that matters. A special element that was referenced
in that closing. Ladies and gentlemen, you heard today that
that very witness has no certification to be able to
examine fraud and to see if fraud was around in

(54:22):
any evidence they bought today. And even with that, they
got up on this stand and told you I saw
no evidence of fraud. I looked over alone statement, I
looked over a fire restaurants policy. I looked at every
single transaction of Chucky's, and I saw no fraud. Ladies
and gentlemen, the fraud is an element in their case,

(54:45):
and they bought for a witness that disproves that element.
And last, but not least, they bought to you, Alex
Silva of berken Bridge County Firefighter and why we do
sympathizemy in a family of overall is great job, Mr Bella.

(55:06):
You're speaking rhythm is outstanding. If you never decided to
not go to law school, I think you could be
a preacher. I'm telling you, man, just your rhythm and
pacing is like outstanding, is an amazing and so if

(55:29):
you choose to not do law could find a vacation. Man,
I can't think of any other general comments. You know
you'll you'll think, did well, keep it up, keep up
the good work, and yeah, good luck the rest of
the season. Oh what school? It's prosecution from Dealer. Okay,

(55:53):
I'm Troy Skipworth. I'm from the University of North Alabama
and Florence, Alabama. Dealer. Uh. The kids always come with
such joy. You can tell they enjoy what they do.
They enjoy being there, they enjoy the opportunity, and that
comes across on what they do, and so they're a
joy to judge in that sense. And so you don't

(56:17):
find that from all the teams, but they always bring
the energy. So I enjoy judging them. Everybody did Gray,
but I will call both of you out the two
in the end. My is that my ya? Is that right?
And then Ella, I think y'all were excellent overall. But yeah,
same thing. Clothing is very polished, like a good job,
the very job. They're mostly about intonation and where to

(56:40):
start vocally as they started left here or we don't
hear concerning the middle back on stuff think Peaks and
Valley's vocal intensity, because they're both very good pulp speakers.
But you just need to know where to start because
if you start all the way up here vocally like
whether it's with her tone, whether you're volume and thing
like God, the only place you can go down where
we start out here is up. So it kind of

(57:03):
started happy mediums. They have to room to flush weight
as we're all so, yeah, thank you, thank you, YEA
loved it in It's great. It's really enjoytle those seeing.
Seems like you all actually prepare and do stuff, flesh
out theories, flesh out character stuff like that. But the

(57:24):
thing is, seems like I'll make it worth it showing
up and actually being engaging, being entertaining stuff like that,
because we don't want to be bored to tears for
three hours. So thank you all for that. That was
really nice. The single let's pick a fark you in this.
We're done, that's what the the books, all right, come on,

(57:45):
let's go with that. As the tournament comes to a close,
all of the exhausted students pile into the auditorium for
the closing ceremonies and award announcements. You can actually breathe easy,
analyst competitions over with and it's time for closing, so
get excited. We actually had no eighteen ranks top attorneys,

(58:17):
so we go straight into nineteen with nineteen ranks from
Team the Conjuring Dillard A on the defense side, DeAndre
Bell also with nineteen ranks on the prosecution side from

(58:37):
Team Insidious Dillard B A Mayor Rondo, and finally we
had a perfect scoring attorney on the defense side, Dillard B.

(58:59):
We had two nineteen ranked witnesses they are actually both
from the same team on defense with nineteen rates from
Team Insidious Dillard B. It's sterling Ball and that second
ninth team ranked witness also won an attorney award from
Team and Citius Dillard B. Lajen A Shelter. We had

(59:24):
one witness who received a perfect score on the defense
side with twenty ranks from Dillard A, Caitlin Dougs. Congratulations
to all of our top witnesses and our attorneys. Now
we're going to move on to the spirit of antil Lord.
I love it. It shows that you are a kind team,

(59:45):
that you care about others, that you people like to
work with you, and that you're just a good sport
so it's honestly my favorite award. I think it's the
best award to receive. We had one team receive it,
and that would be Dillard B. So at this tournament

(01:00:05):
we are giving out three team awards, but we do
have first and honorable mention that we'd like to announce
um with five and a half ballots, a CS of
thirteen and a half and a p D of twenty eight.
That is roadsby Friday the thirteen in third place, Diller

(01:00:26):
Day the Conjuring m and in second place, Road See
the Perch, and finally first place, the winner of this
year's second annual Chucky Mullin spook Tacular version of the

(01:00:49):
Invitational Poulter guys turn us out yet so regulated you yea,

(01:01:18):
so probably you don't. Yeah, I was so happy to
thank you so much. I really am surprised if we
had a top perform was all on the same thing. Yeah,
But we want to teach the younger ones how we're
doing right, So we broke the team up and put

(01:01:41):
uh inexperienced people with the battles so they learned, like
even though we dropped those two ballots, like obviously more

(01:02:02):
working should be done. I love that I'm not upset about.
The two ballets were times because I can see where
you need to him fool and it's good that we
have We're having these moments early on because it's we're
getting to have a temperature, what's going on where we
need to fuck her energy. So this was great. It
was great. Yeah, but I'm gonna call my dad. He

(01:02:27):
deserves Yes, I am overjoyed. Admittedly, Now I do have
some reservations in terms of the last round. Y'all were
in there, so y'all kind of heard on what was
going on. I could have sworn the team could have
sworn that we were about to go in there and
take the first place trophy with a perfect score. It's

(01:02:48):
gonna be interesting. We're looking at the ballots, especially revereing
them with Judge Reese. But all in all, Um, I'm
proud of the team. We all came with the mission
that that mission was to grow and we did just that.
Where you took them home, we got a five hour
ride in front of us, and we gotta stop and
get something to eat subways, so we'll probably get home

(01:03:11):
around midnight. And what happens tomorrow? Tomorrow they get a
day off and get ready for the next tournament, which
is in two weeks. Yes, your Honor, the plaintiff has

(01:03:36):
a few housekeeping matters to attend to. Firstly, would your
Honor like a courtesy copy of the plaintiff's notice of appearance? No,
I don't need one. Would your Honor like a brief
recitation of the facts for today's case? Not as a
housekeeping matter? Now? Additionally, your honor permission to have local
rules constructively ready into the record. Local rules do not
need to be ready into the record. That's next time

(01:03:58):
on Class Action. Class Action is a production of I
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(01:04:21):
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(01:04:44):
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