January 31, 2025 • 38 mins
This week, Rachel Zoe is answering listener questions all about healing. For the first time, Rachel is opening up about the changes in her life over the last 6 months and how she is coping with divorce, managing anxiety, and finding her new normal. Also, did the style queen participate in dry January? Tune in and find out!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hi everyone, I'm Rachel Zoe and you're listening to Climbing
in Heels for your weekly dose of glamour inspiration and
of course fun. Well, it is finally the last week
of January, which has felt maybe a thousand days long
in counting. I recently posted and asked me anything on
(00:30):
my Instagram because I hadn't done one in a while,
and I wanted to focus on the topic of healing.
And what's interesting is I actually was not pertaining to
my personal life. I was actually really wanting to address
the pain that everybody was feeling here in Los Angeles
and the fires, you know, and there's so much going
(00:53):
on in the world that I posted the question as
a way to connect with my followers on you know,
just how everyone's feeling and kind of share any advice
that felt appropriate. Well, to say that I was completely
blown away is an absolute understatement. I got a lot,
a lot of questions, an overwhelming amount of questions about
(01:17):
my personal life and how it's changed in the last
six months. I don't think I was planning on talking
about my personal life at all, but I think in
the moment it felt right, and to be honest, it
was too much to actually type, and I just felt
like talking to you guys directly felt, or as much
(01:39):
as you can virtually talk directly, really felt more appropriate
in that moment. And the response was overwhelming, and everybody
was damning and texting and saying, please put it in
my feed, please do it on your podcast. So I
wanted to share here on Climbing and Heels. I wanted
to share the question and some of the answers on
(02:02):
my pod to update you on my life, and really
with the intention to help anyone out there who is
healing from tragedy, grieving a broken heart, a natural disaster,
or just trying to find their new normal like me,
and just trying to figure out who they are in
(02:23):
a new iteration of their own lives. So I hope
any of this helps you. I love how many people
have responded so far, and how many people are taking
I guess my advice or wanting to have more open
conversation about it. So let's just get right into it. Okay,
(02:45):
what has helped you the most navigate your new journey
post breakup? You know, it's very interesting. I don't really
consider what's happened in my life a breakup. I don't know.
For some reason, a breakup to me in my life
feels very like middle school, like I had a boyfriend
and we broke up, or dealing with, you know, my
(03:08):
young teenager's personal life, like oh, they broke up, or
they're not dating anymore, they're not talking anymore. And I
think when you are separating after a thirty three year relationship,
and a public one at that, I don't even know
that I think about it as breaking up. To be
very honest, I think of it as an entire kind
(03:31):
of life altering shift, and I think in some ways
it's a bit of a grieving process. And I want
to talk about that because I think grieving is a
word that is underused, and I think that it really
(03:51):
applies to so much that's happening in the world and
has happened. I think we grieve when natural disasters happen.
I think we grieve when we lose friendships. I think
we grieve, of course, when we when someone passes away.
But I think we also grieve sometimes a person that
once was, or a relationship, a marriage that once was.
(04:15):
I have a friend that lost a husband this past summer,
and it's and it's interesting because I feel like, in
a weird way, we've kind of gone through the grieving
process in many ways together. And you know, I think
when you live a certain way for a really long
time and then you live a completely different way without
(04:36):
someone in your life, you just have to figure out
what that life is. And that's a process, you know.
And so I think what's helped me the most is
sort of to not look back, but just look forward
and look at every day as one I'm grateful for.
(04:59):
I think having two magical children by my side on
each side at all times really helps. I think having
my family, which you know I've talked about before, really
feels in many ways like I've won the lottery because
I have the most incredible family. My sister is like
my life, you know. I mean, I think we must
(05:22):
talk six times a day even when we're not talking.
We just said on the phone. And my team and
my team and my friends, and so I think that
has really helped me because I don't sit home stuck
in my thoughts. And I think that that's a really
(05:44):
big I think that's a really big challenge for people
going through something is not wanting to go out, not
wanting to be with people not wanting to talk about it,
and I think when you actually do go out and
you get out of your head, that is the most
helpful thing to do. And also, I have an incredible life,
(06:06):
and I think that it's important to embrace that to
its fullest. So I mean, I think all these things
have helped me. Okay, what are some signs you're ready
for divorce? I've been married for twenty five years, you know,
I think there are signs. I mean, there definitely are signs.
There are signs to divorce. But I think people would argue,
(06:30):
and I think experts might argue that, you know, what
might be a sign for one person is something that's
like comfortable for another person. So I think that's where
it gets a little challenging. I think that when you
can't figure out And I'm not necessarily saying that all
(06:53):
of these pertain to me at all, I'm just saying
in general because I feel like I've been through divorce
worse probably twenty times in my life before I even
dealt with separating with my husband. And I think that
when you've had a really happy relationship that for an
(07:16):
extended period of time is very unhappy for various reasons,
and you start to realize that you've either like grown
a part, you don't agree on pretty much anything, that
the things that tied you together are not tying you
together anymore. When you know, as I said on my Instagram,
(07:42):
I mean, I think when you run out of reasons
to stay together and you go to sleep at night
not feeling safe. And when I say safe, I want
to be very clear, I don't safe can mean scare
literally physically scared. It can also mean that someone who
(08:05):
made you calm and happy no longer makes you calm
and happy. And I think that in a marriage, Look,
marriages are going to go up and down and around
six hundred times. I think I was very fortunate in that,
you know, I'm not suffering from I married the wrong
person at the age of whatever I was child. I
(08:31):
think that I had many, many years that were amazing.
And I think that sometimes people, I think you start
to look at things differently, and I think that sometimes
you grow together and sometimes you grow apart. And sometimes
I've always kind of believed that people don't change. Obviously,
(08:53):
behaviors can change, but the core I always feel like
those don't change. But honestly, in the last five years,
I've seen seen many people change, and I think that
that is something, in my opinion, that can really impact
a marriage. And I think that when you start to
(09:14):
go to sleep at night with that different feeling and
you address those things, and sometimes you don't address those things.
Sometimes you do therapy and sometimes you don't. And I
think there's a lot of things in a marriage that
are fixable. And then sometimes I think that people don't
(09:35):
want to do the work. And if you don't want
to face things that become challenging in a marriage, I
think then it's time to go on either side, you know.
I think if you look at yourself every day and
you go, I love who I am and I don't
want to change, and your spouse wants you to change
(09:57):
for various reasons, that's a sign for divorce, you know.
And I think that works on either side of a marriage.
I think that ultimately, if the reasons you don't want
to be together override the reasons you do want to
be together. You know, I also have to say that
(10:17):
I do believe in divorce. I'm just going to say
that because I do think that we grew up some
of us. Depending on your age, grew up in a
time where divorce was not accepted in society, and it
was like really taboo, and it was sort of like,
I mean, I can't tell you how many sets of
(10:37):
grandparents I know that stayed together. Even parents are parents.
My parents are happily married. But I think there are
countless people that stay together just because they're supposed to
stay together, and they live miserably until they're gone. And
I don't think that that needs to happen anymore. I don't.
(11:00):
I don't think that means peace out and leave your
marriage without trying. But I think if you've given it
everything you've got and you cannot see it working, or
you're really just not happy, it's okay to go. I
really do. But I think you also know you're ready
at that point. You just are like know that. I
(11:22):
think when you make the decision that you know you
will confidently be happier without this person than with this person,
it's probably time to go. There are a lot of
people in my life going through a lot of things
right now. Are there is the biggest surge of separation
and divorce that I've ever seen, And I don't know
(11:43):
if it's because I'm at that age, and this is
kind of when it mostly occurs. But I also think
that couples have been challenged with things that they've never
been challenged with. Between COVID having more children out of CODD,
getting divorced in COVID coming out of it, I definitely
(12:04):
would say not to be afraid to walk away from
something that really doesn't feel right to you anymore. Someone
asked me something a long time ago. It wasn't even
that long ago. Actually, they said, richeld, do you need
permission to leave this relationship? And in a weird way,
(12:25):
I think I did. I think I needed permission from myself,
And so I think I think that you have to
look at yourself without judgment, without feelings of failure, without
all the things that society puts on relationships and marriages
(12:53):
and people, and I think you need to I think
you need to do the work. I would recommend doing
the work on both sides if it's something that you
want mutually to save. But at some point, I think
it's okay to say, Okay, this has been great, and
(13:14):
now it's not. We've done everything we can and now
it's time to move forward. I'm saying in general and
I am no therapist, I am no professional. I can
only speak from personal experience and experience with people very
close to me in my life. But be honest with yourself.
(13:35):
Do what's best for yourself and for your family the
other thing I would say, And again I'm not speaking
only about myself or specifically about myself and my situation,
but I think that myth of you have to stay
together for the children, I think that has to go
(13:57):
away because children very often know way more than you think,
they feel way more than you think, and it's more
important for children to have two parents that love them
separately or together or both than it is for parents
(14:20):
to stay together in an unhappy relationship where they are
not loving to each other, because kids feel that no
matter the age they feel it. Okay, do I like
being single? You know, it's a really bizarre question and
one that I'm pretty sure I never thought i'd be answering.
(14:44):
I have not been single since I was eighteen, and
in fact, I don't think I was single at eighteen,
so I actually don't even know the least I was single,
and I don't know the last time I went on
like a date. So to the answer is like, so far. Yes,
it's kind of feels like being a teenager, honestly, Like
(15:05):
there is this kind of bizarre freedom that I have.
And when I say freedom, it's sort of like this
feeling of just being able to be myself and not
answer to anyone other than my children, who you know,
(15:27):
I have to answer to. But it is absolutely surreal.
I'm not gonna lie. It is absolutely surreal to be
flirted with and know that it's okay if I wanted
to like react to that. I'm a fiercely loyal person,
(15:47):
so I think it's something that, like, you know, having
been with someone for more than half of my life,
I just don't think that that lever has been pulled
for a really long time. Like, of course, you like
crushes on people you can never be with, like a
Brad Pitt type person, right, But I think there's you know,
I think in real life going out there and being
(16:10):
on trips and being in different cities and going about
my life and people wanting to set me up and
you know, guys talking to me, it's like a very
bizarre thing that I haven't felt since I was a teen,
So I mean, it's it's pretty amazing, honestly, like, I'm
not gonna lie. It's like a very life altering, surreal feeling.
(16:31):
That is something I'm really getting used to. It very liberating. Honestly,
it's wild. So yeah, okay, best way to move on
from a divorce, The best way to move on from
a divorce, honestly, you just move on, like you know.
(16:53):
I think I answered this very similarly on my Instagram
is that you know, you can only move on by
moving on. I know that sounds so ridiculous, but the
truth is I don't overthink that, and I do overthink
most things in my life. But what I don't overthink
is how I move through things on a daily basis.
(17:15):
And I think it's because I have always had to
handle so much. I've never had to handle one thing ever,
I mean, in as long as I can remember. I mean,
I think since I graduated college, I have been handling
multiple things at a time in my life. And whether
(17:38):
that's work, work in kids, my marriage, my family, my
friend's issues, my life, like just it's a lot. My
life is a lot, and I think everybody's life is
a lot. So I don't complain about that, but I
would say that moving on to me is having to
really move through every step of it. So if I'm
(17:59):
having having a hard day, then I have the hard day.
I would say that I really have very few I
really do because I really feel very hard in those
hard days, and I lean on my very safe people
in those moments. I'm not admittedly a huge crier, you know.
(18:21):
I think in this I cried a lot and then
I did it, you know. And then there are days
that I do and I don't love those days, but
you know, it's for different reasons. Usually it's because I'm
overwhelmed by everything, not because I'm sad about one thing.
It's usually because I'm exhausted, and you know, and I'm
dealing with my personal life and my professional life, and
(18:41):
I have to show up for my kids and always
be like positive and strong, you know, because I think
the minute, at least for me, when I was younger,
it was always like if I saw my parents scared
or crying, that is the thing that floored me the most.
So I'm very aware of that, and I think it's
very important, especially as women, to allow ourselves to feel.
(19:05):
And I think in a process of divorce, there are
so many different emotions that you go through and like
I said, you grieve, I mean you really grieve, and
even if it's something you decided to do or you
feel good about doing, it doesn't mean there's not grieving
in that process, right, And I think that there's moments
there's things that like I won't do I won't look
(19:28):
at old videos, I won't look at old pictures, I
won't look at all these things the media puts together
about like my history of my relationship. I don't feel
the need to do that right now. And I think
that you have to allow yourself to not allow yourself
to do things and not feel guilty about it. But
(19:52):
I've also always felt better navigating my own path and
doing what feels right to me in the moment and
not following a rule book of like how to grieve.
And I'm not saying that's not helpful for people. I'm
just saying for me, it's not okay. So I also believe.
(20:12):
I just want to say the other thing about that
is that I think moving through a divorce, like moving
through anything, I think it's important to move through every
phase of it. And I think you got to feel
all the feels truthfully. Okay, how do I get over
someone I've been with for twenty seven years. Honestly, it's
(20:36):
a really it's a simple question and a loaded one,
because I'm pretty sure in many ways, you don't ever
get over somebody completely. I think your best friend would
say the only way you're going to get over someone
is with someone else. But I actually think that's the
(20:57):
cop out. I do think that's the quick fix. Obviously,
it's like a heart transfer, right Like, I've loved this
person for twenty seven years, and now I've quickly shifted
to somebody else, and that person is filling my heart
right now, but like, I don't even know if I
love them or like, but your heart has shifted. If
your heart is holding on to someone that you've been
(21:18):
with for twenty seven years and you can't pull it
away enough to feel for anything else or anyone else,
you're never going to get over that person because all
you're going to do is think about all the things
you're missing in that person and all the things that
you miss about that person, and to be honest, that
(21:39):
is destroying you on every level. I definitely, I don't know.
I mean, my team would probably say it's a gift.
My friends would probably say it's a gift. I don't
know how I think of it, but I do compartmentalize
and I do block. I talked about this as well,
but I think when you have a lot of different
(22:02):
channels of life in your life on a daily basis,
like a work bucket, a kid bucket, a friend's bucket,
a coworker bucket, a travel bucket, your family bucket, like
all these things, you have to compartmentalize it because if
you don't, you will go down every time one of
(22:23):
those channels is broken or even just injured, you know.
And I think it's a really important life skill to have.
And I think your personal life and your professional life.
If your personal life goes down when your professional life does,
and your professional life goes down when your personal life does,
(22:44):
you can't really exist in a healthy way all the time.
And so I really think that you have to accept
that you may not truly get one hundred percent over
somebody in the way that you want too. Right, I
don't know that I can realistically say to you you're
never going to care about this person again, You're never
(23:06):
going to think about this person again. But I can
tell you that if you work on yourself and you
become a happy, content, confident person in yourself, you will
most likely attract a person who is going to love
you in a way that makes you feel whole again,
(23:30):
because I think when you get out of something for
twenty seven years, there's a huge part of you, there's
like a huge vacancy, you know. And one would argue
that there are many partners in a relationship that within
seconds and sometimes even before, jump right into another relationship.
(23:52):
Sometimes that's a narcissist. Sometimes that's a serial, you know,
relate reationship kind of person. Sometimes it's the simple fact
that either person cannot be alone with themselves and their
thoughts and their physical selves. They cannot bear the thought
(24:13):
or active being alone ever. And I think for me,
I really love my alone time. I crave it. It
doesn't mean I don't want to partner, it doesn't mean
I don't love love. It just means there is a
level of noise in my life that exists on a
daily basis that my alone, quiet personal time is sacred
(24:34):
and needed for me, and I would rather have that
than be with someone that isn't making me whole or
isn't making me happy. And so I think a lot
of people. To go back to the earlier question, I
think a lot of people need to be with someone
because they're either not happy with themselves or they can't
(24:57):
figure out how to be independent and not code of pends.
And I think you have to really look at why
you're with someone, why you stay with someone, or why
you need to be with someone, because I do think
our culture does dictate that. And I can't tell you that.
When I announced that I was getting separated, thousands of
(25:17):
people from around the world and every part of my
life where like, are you okay, You're going to be okay,
You're going to meet someone, don't worry. And I was like,
and then what's so funny is like, my really badass
friends in my life that are like very fiercely independent
but also have either been divorced and remarried or found
love again or happiness or whatever it is, we're like, congratulations,
(25:38):
welcome to your new life. And I think there's a
way that this culture needs to stop dictating and stop
putting pressure on women even men to be like, oh
I have someone to say, Oh, oh, don't worry, You're
going to find a partner. Oh my god, someone's going
to love you. Again, that narrative has to change. It
(26:00):
has to change, it just does. And I think you
have to accept that you may not one hundred percent
be over somebody forever, because I think someone that you
love for twenty seven years is always going to hold
a piece of your heart, and if you ended in
an amicable way, you will likely hold that person in
a place in your heart. And that's okay. But hopefully
(26:21):
you can open up enough room to make space for
someone else if you choose to. Okay, where does my
confidence come from? My confidence? It is very funny. I
(26:42):
don't think of myself as a confident person, and I
think the people closest to me in my life would
probably say that I'm not an overly confident person. I
think I have insecurities like all of us. I'm probably
more confident about certain things, and I will say I
(27:04):
think that I think that I am very clear on
what I feel most confident about. I know that I
can read a room, I know that I can read people.
I know that I know that I have good instincts
and things like that. But I think a lot of
(27:26):
that is really trial and error. I've lived a lot,
and not to do anything with age but I have
had a very full life and a very very dramatic
life in many ways. You know, it's weird because it's
my normal. So I don't think I really realize that
(27:48):
on a regular basis, I go at things full on
in one thousand percent, and it's the way that I
work best. It's the way that I feel best. And
I think that for me, confidence comes from wanting to
do things myself in a way because I know how
I want them done. So I don't think I look
at it as confidence, but I look at it as
(28:10):
a comfort level in how I like things and how
I like to again like move through my life and
attack things in my life and approach things in my life.
But yeah, again I think I would leave that with
confidence comes with experience, and I think, especially when it
comes to your job, the more you do something I
promise you, the more confident you are. I think it's
(28:30):
the same thing with being a mother. I know that
I'm a great mother because I've now been a mother
for more than four almost fourteen years. But if you
asked me in the first two years of my life,
am I doing this right? I don't know, But I
followed my gut and I just said, I'm never leaving
my kids, and this is what makes me feel like
I'm being a good mother. So you have to do
what makes you feel best about what you're doing. Okay,
(28:55):
favorite tools to deal with anxiety parit tools to deal
with things. I mean, I have done something with friends
and honestly with my youngest son. Really in my own mind.
You have to think about something as what's causing the anxiety.
You have to break it down right because for me,
(29:16):
the immediate reaction. I saw this thing about, you know,
being a virgo, which is like something like being a
virgo means panicking but then doing it yourself. But you
have to panic first and go into a complete spiral
and then you're totally fine. And I think that there's
this like five alarm fire reaction that I have to
things a lot of the time. But I will say
(29:38):
that becoming a mother made me weirdly less anxious about
many things because I realized how either unimportant they were,
how unrealistic they were. But I think a really good
exercise to do is something you would do with a
young child. Is this a rational fear or an irrational fear?
(29:59):
So like if you're walking down the street and you
have a fear of this tree falling on you. Is
that rational? Probably not right. I think having a fear
of driving a car on a crazy ledge with no railing,
that's pretty rational fear to be frightened of, you know.
(30:20):
And I think there is a world of difference between
irrational and rational, and that has helped me with anxiety,
truly trying to break it down in my head truthfully,
breathing breathing techniques actually really do work in the moment,
and sometimes shifting the narrative in your head about what
is actually happening, so it's sort of projecting kind of
(30:45):
what could happen, and then you're like, why are you
wasting this brain space, time and energy on something that
hasn't happened, you know, because I realize how much anxiety
is caused by what could happen but actually hasn't happened.
So I've really been working on a lot of that
and it's really been helpful. And I also find that
(31:08):
when you have children, because you have to be strong
for them, you find you have less time to be
anxious about things not worth being anxious about. And I
do find a big trigger for anxiety is having too
much time to get into your head about anything. Okay,
are you going to date soon? Or do you want
(31:29):
to enjoy being on your own for now? You know what?
I literally the greatest lesson I've learned in my career
and in my life in general. And I'll say it
to anyone who will listen. Never say never, never say never,
and never never turn down an opportunity that hasn't been offered.
(31:51):
So I'm going to now. I always apply that to work,
and now I'm going to apply that to my single life.
So I'm never going to turn down something that hasn't
presented itself. I am excited to date. I'm going to
date someone that excites me. I'm going to date someone
that I'm very clear about what I want and what
(32:14):
I don't want, but I also need to not put
roadblocks up on it. I'm going to take my own
advice on that. But I am really enjoying my piece,
and I am really enjoying being on my own and
just being with my kids and being with my friends
and just meeting great people. And right now it's just
(32:36):
been really nice and really peaceful and no drama, and
that's been really really nice. And i think what happens,
you know, going forward, I mean bringing on. I'm open
to it. No rules, no roadblocks, That's what I keep
(32:57):
saying to myself, No rules, no roadblocks. Okay, how are
the boys doing? The boys are honestly extraordinary. They are
my best friends. They are my little princes, they are
my little guards. They are my two favorite little humans
(33:18):
in the world. And they are thankfully, gratefully doing incredibly.
They are thriving in school, thriving with their friends, and
just overall incredibly happy and peaceful. And that's all I
care about. So the rest is icing. Okay, did I
(33:42):
do try January? That's funny? No? No, did I stutter? No?
But truth be told, I've never actually believed in dry January.
I've never believed in what's the other one, sober November.
I also don't believe in New Year's resolutions. I'm not
(34:02):
that person. I don't believe in those types of things.
It's the same reason I don't set like these big
markers and goals for myself. It doesn't work for me.
To me, that sets me up for failure because it's
the thing I'm trying to do, and if I don't
get to where I wanted to be, or I trip
(34:24):
up along the way. Then then I start to get
really really hard on myself. But to be honest, I've
never really felt that I needed to do a dry
month because I have, at least for now, a very
healthy relationship with alcohol, and I have never leaned on
it to solve problems, and I've never done it in
(34:46):
excess because I didn't want to lose the privilege of
having it. A friend of mine during the wildfires recently,
a group of us really trauma bonded and we talked
about not losing the privilege with certain things, and alcohol,
I think is one of them, because I really do
(35:08):
enjoy I enjoy having a glass of wine when I
want it, and I've always looked at it as I
don't want to not be able to have that glass
of wine because I enjoy it. And I think there's
so many things in life every day that passes everything
that we love or enjoy doing is toxic. So I
(35:31):
know alcohol is not good for us, but I also
feel that it's okay to have a glass of wine
once in a while. So I'm just going to allow
myself right now to continue doing that. But I do
have a very strong rule that I highly recommend, which
is not drinking at home, because there are many nights
that I don't go out and I definitely would never
(35:53):
drink at home on those nights because I think once
you start doing that, you're drinking seven nights a week,
and that per suddenly has saved me, like in COVID
and everything else. It just that is like a no
fly zone for me, because once you break that, all
of a sudden, you're drinking every night. Okay, So I
(36:14):
think that's it for now. Keep the questions coming, and
I will always answer them, or I should say I
should always try to answer them. I will answer as
many as I can. But I hope this was helpful
to you. I definitely want to do more of these.
I think I just like to be real with all
of you. I like to keep this community honest. I
(36:35):
don't believe in being that Instagram happy, and I think
a lot of people are like, are you really happy?
Are you just Instagram happy? I'm like, no, I'm actually
really happy. Like, of course, there's days that fully suck,
but you know it's okay. We all have days that suck.
That's human. So be on the lookout for when I
drop questions on my IG. I hope this podcast helps
(36:59):
anyone who's searching for healing in their life, no matter
what it is, or anyone who is just curious about
how my personal healing journey is going. I love all
of you. You mean a lot to me, and you
know my mission with Climbing in Heels truly is to
help as many people as possible get through whatever it
(37:20):
is in their life, whether it's their professional journey and
now personal journey, and sometimes it's the same thing. Sometimes
it's both colliding about whatever it is. I think we
all have to be open and talk about it because
we're all just going through it, so let's just go
through it together. Thank you so much for listening to
Climbing and Heels. If you haven't already, please subscribe to
(37:43):
the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the iHeart app, or
wherever you get your podcasts, so don't miss a single
episode this season. Be sure to follow me on Instagram
at at Rachel Zo and the show on at Climbing
in Heels pod for the latest episodes and updates. I
will talk to you soon, fat Boy
Hi everyone, I'm Rachel Zoe and you're listening to Climbing
in Heels for your weekly dose of glamour inspiration and
of course fun. Well, it is finally the last week
of January, which has felt maybe a thousand days long
in counting. I recently posted and asked me anything on
(00:30):
my Instagram because I hadn't done one in a while,
and I wanted to focus on the topic of healing.
And what's interesting is I actually was not pertaining to
my personal life. I was actually really wanting to address
the pain that everybody was feeling here in Los Angeles
and the fires, you know, and there's so much going
(00:53):
on in the world that I posted the question as
a way to connect with my followers on you know,
just how everyone's feeling and kind of share any advice
that felt appropriate. Well, to say that I was completely
blown away is an absolute understatement. I got a lot,
a lot of questions, an overwhelming amount of questions about
(01:17):
my personal life and how it's changed in the last
six months. I don't think I was planning on talking
about my personal life at all, but I think in
the moment it felt right, and to be honest, it
was too much to actually type, and I just felt
like talking to you guys directly felt, or as much
(01:39):
as you can virtually talk directly, really felt more appropriate
in that moment. And the response was overwhelming, and everybody
was damning and texting and saying, please put it in
my feed, please do it on your podcast. So I
wanted to share here on Climbing and Heels. I wanted
to share the question and some of the answers on
(02:02):
my pod to update you on my life, and really
with the intention to help anyone out there who is
healing from tragedy, grieving a broken heart, a natural disaster,
or just trying to find their new normal like me,
and just trying to figure out who they are in
(02:23):
a new iteration of their own lives. So I hope
any of this helps you. I love how many people
have responded so far, and how many people are taking
I guess my advice or wanting to have more open
conversation about it. So let's just get right into it. Okay,
(02:45):
what has helped you the most navigate your new journey
post breakup? You know, it's very interesting. I don't really
consider what's happened in my life a breakup. I don't know.
For some reason, a breakup to me in my life
feels very like middle school, like I had a boyfriend
and we broke up, or dealing with, you know, my
(03:08):
young teenager's personal life, like oh, they broke up, or
they're not dating anymore, they're not talking anymore. And I
think when you are separating after a thirty three year relationship,
and a public one at that, I don't even know
that I think about it as breaking up. To be
very honest, I think of it as an entire kind
(03:31):
of life altering shift, and I think in some ways
it's a bit of a grieving process. And I want
to talk about that because I think grieving is a
word that is underused, and I think that it really
(03:51):
applies to so much that's happening in the world and
has happened. I think we grieve when natural disasters happen.
I think we grieve when we lose friendships. I think
we grieve, of course, when we when someone passes away.
But I think we also grieve sometimes a person that
once was, or a relationship, a marriage that once was.
(04:15):
I have a friend that lost a husband this past summer,
and it's and it's interesting because I feel like, in
a weird way, we've kind of gone through the grieving
process in many ways together. And you know, I think
when you live a certain way for a really long
time and then you live a completely different way without
(04:36):
someone in your life, you just have to figure out
what that life is. And that's a process, you know.
And so I think what's helped me the most is
sort of to not look back, but just look forward
and look at every day as one I'm grateful for.
(04:59):
I think having two magical children by my side on
each side at all times really helps. I think having
my family, which you know I've talked about before, really
feels in many ways like I've won the lottery because
I have the most incredible family. My sister is like
my life, you know. I mean, I think we must
(05:22):
talk six times a day even when we're not talking.
We just said on the phone. And my team and
my team and my friends, and so I think that
has really helped me because I don't sit home stuck
in my thoughts. And I think that that's a really
(05:44):
big I think that's a really big challenge for people
going through something is not wanting to go out, not
wanting to be with people not wanting to talk about it,
and I think when you actually do go out and
you get out of your head, that is the most
helpful thing to do. And also, I have an incredible life,
(06:06):
and I think that it's important to embrace that to
its fullest. So I mean, I think all these things
have helped me. Okay, what are some signs you're ready
for divorce? I've been married for twenty five years, you know,
I think there are signs. I mean, there definitely are signs.
There are signs to divorce. But I think people would argue,
(06:30):
and I think experts might argue that, you know, what
might be a sign for one person is something that's
like comfortable for another person. So I think that's where
it gets a little challenging. I think that when you
can't figure out And I'm not necessarily saying that all
(06:53):
of these pertain to me at all, I'm just saying
in general because I feel like I've been through divorce
worse probably twenty times in my life before I even
dealt with separating with my husband. And I think that
when you've had a really happy relationship that for an
(07:16):
extended period of time is very unhappy for various reasons,
and you start to realize that you've either like grown
a part, you don't agree on pretty much anything, that
the things that tied you together are not tying you
together anymore. When you know, as I said on my Instagram,
(07:42):
I mean, I think when you run out of reasons
to stay together and you go to sleep at night
not feeling safe. And when I say safe, I want
to be very clear, I don't safe can mean scare
literally physically scared. It can also mean that someone who
(08:05):
made you calm and happy no longer makes you calm
and happy. And I think that in a marriage, Look,
marriages are going to go up and down and around
six hundred times. I think I was very fortunate in that,
you know, I'm not suffering from I married the wrong
person at the age of whatever I was child. I
(08:31):
think that I had many, many years that were amazing.
And I think that sometimes people, I think you start
to look at things differently, and I think that sometimes
you grow together and sometimes you grow apart. And sometimes
I've always kind of believed that people don't change. Obviously,
(08:53):
behaviors can change, but the core I always feel like
those don't change. But honestly, in the last five years,
I've seen seen many people change, and I think that
that is something, in my opinion, that can really impact
a marriage. And I think that when you start to
(09:14):
go to sleep at night with that different feeling and
you address those things, and sometimes you don't address those things.
Sometimes you do therapy and sometimes you don't. And I
think there's a lot of things in a marriage that
are fixable. And then sometimes I think that people don't
(09:35):
want to do the work. And if you don't want
to face things that become challenging in a marriage, I
think then it's time to go on either side, you know.
I think if you look at yourself every day and
you go, I love who I am and I don't
want to change, and your spouse wants you to change
(09:57):
for various reasons, that's a sign for divorce, you know.
And I think that works on either side of a marriage.
I think that ultimately, if the reasons you don't want
to be together override the reasons you do want to
be together. You know, I also have to say that
(10:17):
I do believe in divorce. I'm just going to say
that because I do think that we grew up some
of us. Depending on your age, grew up in a
time where divorce was not accepted in society, and it
was like really taboo, and it was sort of like,
I mean, I can't tell you how many sets of
(10:37):
grandparents I know that stayed together. Even parents are parents.
My parents are happily married. But I think there are
countless people that stay together just because they're supposed to
stay together, and they live miserably until they're gone. And
I don't think that that needs to happen anymore. I don't.
(11:00):
I don't think that means peace out and leave your
marriage without trying. But I think if you've given it
everything you've got and you cannot see it working, or
you're really just not happy, it's okay to go. I
really do. But I think you also know you're ready
at that point. You just are like know that. I
(11:22):
think when you make the decision that you know you
will confidently be happier without this person than with this person,
it's probably time to go. There are a lot of
people in my life going through a lot of things
right now. Are there is the biggest surge of separation
and divorce that I've ever seen, And I don't know
(11:43):
if it's because I'm at that age, and this is
kind of when it mostly occurs. But I also think
that couples have been challenged with things that they've never
been challenged with. Between COVID having more children out of CODD,
getting divorced in COVID coming out of it, I definitely
(12:04):
would say not to be afraid to walk away from
something that really doesn't feel right to you anymore. Someone
asked me something a long time ago. It wasn't even
that long ago. Actually, they said, richeld, do you need
permission to leave this relationship? And in a weird way,
(12:25):
I think I did. I think I needed permission from myself,
And so I think I think that you have to
look at yourself without judgment, without feelings of failure, without
all the things that society puts on relationships and marriages
(12:53):
and people, and I think you need to I think
you need to do the work. I would recommend doing
the work on both sides if it's something that you
want mutually to save. But at some point, I think
it's okay to say, Okay, this has been great, and
(13:14):
now it's not. We've done everything we can and now
it's time to move forward. I'm saying in general and
I am no therapist, I am no professional. I can
only speak from personal experience and experience with people very
close to me in my life. But be honest with yourself.
(13:35):
Do what's best for yourself and for your family the
other thing I would say, And again I'm not speaking
only about myself or specifically about myself and my situation,
but I think that myth of you have to stay
together for the children, I think that has to go
(13:57):
away because children very often know way more than you think,
they feel way more than you think, and it's more
important for children to have two parents that love them
separately or together or both than it is for parents
(14:20):
to stay together in an unhappy relationship where they are
not loving to each other, because kids feel that no
matter the age they feel it. Okay, do I like
being single? You know, it's a really bizarre question and
one that I'm pretty sure I never thought i'd be answering.
(14:44):
I have not been single since I was eighteen, and
in fact, I don't think I was single at eighteen,
so I actually don't even know the least I was single,
and I don't know the last time I went on
like a date. So to the answer is like, so far. Yes,
it's kind of feels like being a teenager, honestly, Like
(15:05):
there is this kind of bizarre freedom that I have.
And when I say freedom, it's sort of like this
feeling of just being able to be myself and not
answer to anyone other than my children, who you know,
(15:27):
I have to answer to. But it is absolutely surreal.
I'm not gonna lie. It is absolutely surreal to be
flirted with and know that it's okay if I wanted
to like react to that. I'm a fiercely loyal person,
(15:47):
so I think it's something that, like, you know, having
been with someone for more than half of my life,
I just don't think that that lever has been pulled
for a really long time. Like, of course, you like
crushes on people you can never be with, like a
Brad Pitt type person, right, But I think there's you know,
I think in real life going out there and being
(16:10):
on trips and being in different cities and going about
my life and people wanting to set me up and
you know, guys talking to me, it's like a very
bizarre thing that I haven't felt since I was a teen,
So I mean, it's it's pretty amazing, honestly, like, I'm
not gonna lie. It's like a very life altering, surreal feeling.
(16:31):
That is something I'm really getting used to. It very liberating. Honestly,
it's wild. So yeah, okay, best way to move on
from a divorce, The best way to move on from
a divorce, honestly, you just move on, like you know.
(16:53):
I think I answered this very similarly on my Instagram
is that you know, you can only move on by
moving on. I know that sounds so ridiculous, but the
truth is I don't overthink that, and I do overthink
most things in my life. But what I don't overthink
is how I move through things on a daily basis.
(17:15):
And I think it's because I have always had to
handle so much. I've never had to handle one thing ever,
I mean, in as long as I can remember. I mean,
I think since I graduated college, I have been handling
multiple things at a time in my life. And whether
(17:38):
that's work, work in kids, my marriage, my family, my
friend's issues, my life, like just it's a lot. My
life is a lot, and I think everybody's life is
a lot. So I don't complain about that, but I
would say that moving on to me is having to
really move through every step of it. So if I'm
(17:59):
having having a hard day, then I have the hard day.
I would say that I really have very few I
really do because I really feel very hard in those
hard days, and I lean on my very safe people
in those moments. I'm not admittedly a huge crier, you know.
(18:21):
I think in this I cried a lot and then
I did it, you know. And then there are days
that I do and I don't love those days, but
you know, it's for different reasons. Usually it's because I'm
overwhelmed by everything, not because I'm sad about one thing.
It's usually because I'm exhausted, and you know, and I'm
dealing with my personal life and my professional life, and
(18:41):
I have to show up for my kids and always
be like positive and strong, you know, because I think
the minute, at least for me, when I was younger,
it was always like if I saw my parents scared
or crying, that is the thing that floored me the most.
So I'm very aware of that, and I think it's
very important, especially as women, to allow ourselves to feel.
(19:05):
And I think in a process of divorce, there are
so many different emotions that you go through and like
I said, you grieve, I mean you really grieve, and
even if it's something you decided to do or you
feel good about doing, it doesn't mean there's not grieving
in that process, right, And I think that there's moments
there's things that like I won't do I won't look
(19:28):
at old videos, I won't look at old pictures, I
won't look at all these things the media puts together
about like my history of my relationship. I don't feel
the need to do that right now. And I think
that you have to allow yourself to not allow yourself
to do things and not feel guilty about it. But
(19:52):
I've also always felt better navigating my own path and
doing what feels right to me in the moment and
not following a rule book of like how to grieve.
And I'm not saying that's not helpful for people. I'm
just saying for me, it's not okay. So I also believe.
(20:12):
I just want to say the other thing about that
is that I think moving through a divorce, like moving
through anything, I think it's important to move through every
phase of it. And I think you got to feel
all the feels truthfully. Okay, how do I get over
someone I've been with for twenty seven years. Honestly, it's
(20:36):
a really it's a simple question and a loaded one,
because I'm pretty sure in many ways, you don't ever
get over somebody completely. I think your best friend would
say the only way you're going to get over someone
is with someone else. But I actually think that's the
(20:57):
cop out. I do think that's the quick fix. Obviously,
it's like a heart transfer, right Like, I've loved this
person for twenty seven years, and now I've quickly shifted
to somebody else, and that person is filling my heart
right now, but like, I don't even know if I
love them or like, but your heart has shifted. If
your heart is holding on to someone that you've been
(21:18):
with for twenty seven years and you can't pull it
away enough to feel for anything else or anyone else,
you're never going to get over that person because all
you're going to do is think about all the things
you're missing in that person and all the things that
you miss about that person, and to be honest, that
(21:39):
is destroying you on every level. I definitely, I don't know.
I mean, my team would probably say it's a gift.
My friends would probably say it's a gift. I don't
know how I think of it, but I do compartmentalize
and I do block. I talked about this as well,
but I think when you have a lot of different
(22:02):
channels of life in your life on a daily basis,
like a work bucket, a kid bucket, a friend's bucket,
a coworker bucket, a travel bucket, your family bucket, like
all these things, you have to compartmentalize it because if
you don't, you will go down every time one of
(22:23):
those channels is broken or even just injured, you know.
And I think it's a really important life skill to have.
And I think your personal life and your professional life.
If your personal life goes down when your professional life does,
and your professional life goes down when your personal life does,
(22:44):
you can't really exist in a healthy way all the time.
And so I really think that you have to accept
that you may not truly get one hundred percent over
somebody in the way that you want too. Right, I
don't know that I can realistically say to you you're
never going to care about this person again, You're never
(23:06):
going to think about this person again. But I can
tell you that if you work on yourself and you
become a happy, content, confident person in yourself, you will
most likely attract a person who is going to love
you in a way that makes you feel whole again,
(23:30):
because I think when you get out of something for
twenty seven years, there's a huge part of you, there's
like a huge vacancy, you know. And one would argue
that there are many partners in a relationship that within
seconds and sometimes even before, jump right into another relationship.
(23:52):
Sometimes that's a narcissist. Sometimes that's a serial, you know,
relate reationship kind of person. Sometimes it's the simple fact
that either person cannot be alone with themselves and their
thoughts and their physical selves. They cannot bear the thought
(24:13):
or active being alone ever. And I think for me,
I really love my alone time. I crave it. It
doesn't mean I don't want to partner, it doesn't mean
I don't love love. It just means there is a
level of noise in my life that exists on a
daily basis that my alone, quiet personal time is sacred
(24:34):
and needed for me, and I would rather have that
than be with someone that isn't making me whole or
isn't making me happy. And so I think a lot
of people. To go back to the earlier question, I
think a lot of people need to be with someone
because they're either not happy with themselves or they can't
(24:57):
figure out how to be independent and not code of pends.
And I think you have to really look at why
you're with someone, why you stay with someone, or why
you need to be with someone, because I do think
our culture does dictate that. And I can't tell you that.
When I announced that I was getting separated, thousands of
(25:17):
people from around the world and every part of my
life where like, are you okay, You're going to be okay,
You're going to meet someone, don't worry. And I was like,
and then what's so funny is like, my really badass
friends in my life that are like very fiercely independent
but also have either been divorced and remarried or found
love again or happiness or whatever it is, we're like, congratulations,
(25:38):
welcome to your new life. And I think there's a
way that this culture needs to stop dictating and stop
putting pressure on women even men to be like, oh
I have someone to say, Oh, oh, don't worry, You're
going to find a partner. Oh my god, someone's going
to love you. Again, that narrative has to change. It
(26:00):
has to change, it just does. And I think you
have to accept that you may not one hundred percent
be over somebody forever, because I think someone that you
love for twenty seven years is always going to hold
a piece of your heart, and if you ended in
an amicable way, you will likely hold that person in
a place in your heart. And that's okay. But hopefully
(26:21):
you can open up enough room to make space for
someone else if you choose to. Okay, where does my
confidence come from? My confidence? It is very funny. I
(26:42):
don't think of myself as a confident person, and I
think the people closest to me in my life would
probably say that I'm not an overly confident person. I
think I have insecurities like all of us. I'm probably
more confident about certain things, and I will say I
(27:04):
think that I think that I am very clear on
what I feel most confident about. I know that I
can read a room, I know that I can read people.
I know that I know that I have good instincts
and things like that. But I think a lot of
(27:26):
that is really trial and error. I've lived a lot,
and not to do anything with age but I have
had a very full life and a very very dramatic
life in many ways. You know, it's weird because it's
my normal. So I don't think I really realize that
(27:48):
on a regular basis, I go at things full on
in one thousand percent, and it's the way that I
work best. It's the way that I feel best. And
I think that for me, confidence comes from wanting to
do things myself in a way because I know how
I want them done. So I don't think I look
at it as confidence, but I look at it as
(28:10):
a comfort level in how I like things and how
I like to again like move through my life and
attack things in my life and approach things in my life.
But yeah, again I think I would leave that with
confidence comes with experience, and I think, especially when it
comes to your job, the more you do something I
promise you, the more confident you are. I think it's
(28:30):
the same thing with being a mother. I know that
I'm a great mother because I've now been a mother
for more than four almost fourteen years. But if you
asked me in the first two years of my life,
am I doing this right? I don't know, But I
followed my gut and I just said, I'm never leaving
my kids, and this is what makes me feel like
I'm being a good mother. So you have to do
what makes you feel best about what you're doing. Okay,
(28:55):
favorite tools to deal with anxiety parit tools to deal
with things. I mean, I have done something with friends
and honestly with my youngest son. Really in my own mind.
You have to think about something as what's causing the anxiety.
You have to break it down right because for me,
(29:16):
the immediate reaction. I saw this thing about, you know,
being a virgo, which is like something like being a
virgo means panicking but then doing it yourself. But you
have to panic first and go into a complete spiral
and then you're totally fine. And I think that there's
this like five alarm fire reaction that I have to
things a lot of the time. But I will say
(29:38):
that becoming a mother made me weirdly less anxious about
many things because I realized how either unimportant they were,
how unrealistic they were. But I think a really good
exercise to do is something you would do with a
young child. Is this a rational fear or an irrational fear?
(29:59):
So like if you're walking down the street and you
have a fear of this tree falling on you. Is
that rational? Probably not right. I think having a fear
of driving a car on a crazy ledge with no railing,
that's pretty rational fear to be frightened of, you know.
(30:20):
And I think there is a world of difference between
irrational and rational, and that has helped me with anxiety,
truly trying to break it down in my head truthfully,
breathing breathing techniques actually really do work in the moment,
and sometimes shifting the narrative in your head about what
is actually happening, so it's sort of projecting kind of
(30:45):
what could happen, and then you're like, why are you
wasting this brain space, time and energy on something that
hasn't happened, you know, because I realize how much anxiety
is caused by what could happen but actually hasn't happened.
So I've really been working on a lot of that
and it's really been helpful. And I also find that
(31:08):
when you have children, because you have to be strong
for them, you find you have less time to be
anxious about things not worth being anxious about. And I
do find a big trigger for anxiety is having too
much time to get into your head about anything. Okay,
are you going to date soon? Or do you want
(31:29):
to enjoy being on your own for now? You know what?
I literally the greatest lesson I've learned in my career
and in my life in general. And I'll say it
to anyone who will listen. Never say never, never say never,
and never never turn down an opportunity that hasn't been offered.
(31:51):
So I'm going to now. I always apply that to work,
and now I'm going to apply that to my single life.
So I'm never going to turn down something that hasn't
presented itself. I am excited to date. I'm going to
date someone that excites me. I'm going to date someone
that I'm very clear about what I want and what
(32:14):
I don't want, but I also need to not put
roadblocks up on it. I'm going to take my own
advice on that. But I am really enjoying my piece,
and I am really enjoying being on my own and
just being with my kids and being with my friends
and just meeting great people. And right now it's just
(32:36):
been really nice and really peaceful and no drama, and
that's been really really nice. And i think what happens,
you know, going forward, I mean bringing on. I'm open
to it. No rules, no roadblocks, That's what I keep
(32:57):
saying to myself, No rules, no roadblocks. Okay, how are
the boys doing? The boys are honestly extraordinary. They are
my best friends. They are my little princes, they are
my little guards. They are my two favorite little humans
(33:18):
in the world. And they are thankfully, gratefully doing incredibly.
They are thriving in school, thriving with their friends, and
just overall incredibly happy and peaceful. And that's all I
care about. So the rest is icing. Okay, did I
(33:42):
do try January? That's funny? No? No, did I stutter? No?
But truth be told, I've never actually believed in dry January.
I've never believed in what's the other one, sober November.
I also don't believe in New Year's resolutions. I'm not
(34:02):
that person. I don't believe in those types of things.
It's the same reason I don't set like these big
markers and goals for myself. It doesn't work for me.
To me, that sets me up for failure because it's
the thing I'm trying to do, and if I don't
get to where I wanted to be, or I trip
(34:24):
up along the way. Then then I start to get
really really hard on myself. But to be honest, I've
never really felt that I needed to do a dry
month because I have, at least for now, a very
healthy relationship with alcohol, and I have never leaned on
it to solve problems, and I've never done it in
(34:46):
excess because I didn't want to lose the privilege of
having it. A friend of mine during the wildfires recently,
a group of us really trauma bonded and we talked
about not losing the privilege with certain things, and alcohol,
I think is one of them, because I really do
(35:08):
enjoy I enjoy having a glass of wine when I
want it, and I've always looked at it as I
don't want to not be able to have that glass
of wine because I enjoy it. And I think there's
so many things in life every day that passes everything
that we love or enjoy doing is toxic. So I
(35:31):
know alcohol is not good for us, but I also
feel that it's okay to have a glass of wine
once in a while. So I'm just going to allow
myself right now to continue doing that. But I do
have a very strong rule that I highly recommend, which
is not drinking at home, because there are many nights
that I don't go out and I definitely would never
(35:53):
drink at home on those nights because I think once
you start doing that, you're drinking seven nights a week,
and that per suddenly has saved me, like in COVID
and everything else. It just that is like a no
fly zone for me, because once you break that, all
of a sudden, you're drinking every night. Okay, So I
(36:14):
think that's it for now. Keep the questions coming, and
I will always answer them, or I should say I
should always try to answer them. I will answer as
many as I can. But I hope this was helpful
to you. I definitely want to do more of these.
I think I just like to be real with all
of you. I like to keep this community honest. I
(36:35):
don't believe in being that Instagram happy, and I think
a lot of people are like, are you really happy?
Are you just Instagram happy? I'm like, no, I'm actually
really happy. Like, of course, there's days that fully suck,
but you know it's okay. We all have days that suck.
That's human. So be on the lookout for when I
drop questions on my IG. I hope this podcast helps
(36:59):
anyone who's searching for healing in their life, no matter
what it is, or anyone who is just curious about
how my personal healing journey is going. I love all
of you. You mean a lot to me, and you
know my mission with Climbing in Heels truly is to
help as many people as possible get through whatever it
(37:20):
is in their life, whether it's their professional journey and
now personal journey, and sometimes it's the same thing. Sometimes
it's both colliding about whatever it is. I think we
all have to be open and talk about it because
we're all just going through it, so let's just go
through it together. Thank you so much for listening to
Climbing and Heels. If you haven't already, please subscribe to
(37:43):
the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the iHeart app, or
wherever you get your podcasts, so don't miss a single
episode this season. Be sure to follow me on Instagram
at at Rachel Zo and the show on at Climbing
in Heels pod for the latest episodes and updates. I
will talk to you soon, fat Boy
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