May 12, 2023 • 52 mins
This week, Rachel Zoe speaks with interior designer, author, chef, and the founder and CEO of EyeSwoon, Athena Calderone. In this episode, Athena talks about leaning into what brings her joy, falling in love, putting her career on hold and seeing the world through a different lens. Athena also explains how she developed herself in the safety of her home and learned to love being a homemaker.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
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(00:27):
Hi everyone, I'm Rachel Zoe and you're listening to Climbing
in Heels. The show is all about celebrating the most
extraordinary superwomen who will be sharing their incredible journeys to
the top, all while staying glamorous. Today with me, we
have interior designer, author chef, and the founder and CEO
of I Swoon, the beautiful Athena Calderone. In this episode,
(00:51):
Athena talks about leaning into what brings her joy, falling
in love and putting her career on hold, and seeing
the world through a different lens. I'm so excit I
did for you all to listen to this episode.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
It's a really good.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
One and you will learn a lot and take away
a lot and hopefully feel a little more confident in
your superpowers. I can tell you that the common thread
of the countless women that I have had incredible conversations with.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
None of the journeys have been easy.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
None of them have been sort of this beautiful blueprint
of the plan of life and like by reality, no,
and like by twenty five I'm going to do this,
and by twenty eight I'm going to do this, and
by thirty one I'm going to be on my third
child and start my second company and like all this stuff.
So what I like to sort of get into, what
I like to talk about is definitely want to start first.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
You grew up in Long Island. I know this, right,
I did.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Not too far from you, I guess, okay, a little
bit of a world away.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
I was in Nasau County where.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Okay, yeah, I grew up in Shorthills in New Jersey.
We used to call it short Thrills. And you know,
everyone here in LA is like, what's that. I'm like,
it's Brentwood in New Jersey is really what it is?
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Actually, I don't know why I thought you grew up
in Long Island as well.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Everyone does.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Everyone does, because we never did anything in New Jersey.
We never went to the shore since the day I
was born. We went to the Hamptons. We went to
magainst it and my parents were New Yorkers, so I
think it was sort of this place that we lived,
but we didn't really exist that much. Like I went
to school there, but we didn't have such a life there.
We were like always in the city. I was at museums,
in theater. My parents are culture freaks. So I think
(02:32):
people just think either I grew up in New York
or Long Island, because that's just sort of where I
always was, you know, and that's where most of my
friends are.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Honestly, So you grew up on Long Island? And what
kind of child were you?
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Were you like this outgoing, magnetic, charismatic, like dream big
kind of girl, or were you like in the corner,
super shy and like.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
I mean, it's kind of funny. I lived in fantasy world.
I was a big dreamer. I was like a very
I have a girly girl. My parents, who were both hairdressers.
I grew up in the hair salon, and I grew
up around a lot of colorful people, creative, you know,
loved living in this like fantastical world.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
But it wasn't a fancy world, right, more like an
artsy creative.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
I did not grow up fancy at all. My parents,
we didn't grow up with any money. We were kind
of lower class.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
But happy, like I was going to say, but happy.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Happy, and imaginative. And my family was a little chaotic.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
It was as everyone as they are, but you know, big.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Italian American family, lots of energy, lots of you know,
coming together around the table, lots of loud, boisterous expression always.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
And I go to the youngest food A lots of food,
A lot of food.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Yeah. So I would hide out in my rooms and
play make believe all the time.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
I was an absolute dreamer.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
I was always like ready to try something you know,
creative on But I did as I grew up start
to develop this strange insecurity that almost carries through to
the day right now, that like I didn't know what
my thing was. I would always try something, whether it
was you know, I'm talking about really young like dancing
(04:17):
or gymnastics, and I don't know. I always had this
kind of like chaotic and creative spirit. I never quite
knew where it would land, and started to feel shame
surrounding the ping ponging of trying lots of creative things
without anything sticking.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Okay, which is very common, by the way, and interestingly
common on this podcast. So very interesting. I know, I
know a lot of people are like I couldn't find
my way. I can figure it out. I wasn't a student.
I tried a million things.
Speaker 4 (04:44):
I wasn't a student. I wasn't a good student.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
I really I definitely had add but nobody like figured
that out, and no one ever talked about But I
love to write and I loved like art class, and
I grew myself into like dance, and you know, I
was on a dance team in high school, and you
know that was kind of what gave me discipline.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
And then again, I wasn't a good student.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
I didn't know what I wanted to study in college,
and I just like I bopped around to multiple different
schools and colleges as well.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
And I studied dance.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
I knew I wasn't good enough to be successful at dance,
so hard to do fashion, and you know, I just
was all over the place, and I exhausted myself.
Speaker 4 (05:23):
But I was so happy.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
But I was just like I was a bit of
a creative chameleon. Like whoever I was around or my
boyfriend was you know he was a dancer, so then
I was a dancer. Like I didn't have this like
stake in the ground of who I was and what
I wanted from this world. So what I did was
I just started to try everything that interested me, and
even though there was shame around it, I started to
(05:47):
realize that each of these interests were kind of I
was self educated and formulating my interests, and I never
knew where they would land, and I always felt a
little defeat did when they didn't materialize into what I
thought quote unquote success was.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
And at this point, you were like, what in like
twenty twenty, like in your twenties, right.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
Yeah, I was nineteen twenty when I moved to Manhattan
after going to a couple of different colleges and nothing sticking.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
And you feel so insecure right at that point because everyone,
I feel like when we grew up, there was such
if you didn't go to college, like it was such
a thing. And what's so funny is that I'm going
to argue to say that at least fifty percent of
the women I've had on the podcast did not go.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
To college, barely graduated high school.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
I like to talk about education a little just because
I like to touch on it because I really stand
by that our education really doesn't define who we are
in any way, and I think it's you know, listen,
I think some people really lean on it and it
really serves them in their lives. And I just think
so many people don't go to college or do choose
their own path in their educational journey, and I think
(06:58):
it's sort of like, I mean, listen, I always I
learned more in my first week of work than I
learned in four years of college. Not that I'm against
college for everybody, but I just think that conversation.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Is getting more and more relevant, you know.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
I mean what's interesting, though, is it really was a
wound for a really long time.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
I felt inarticulate.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
I didn't feel like I had like I just didn't
feel studied. I didn't feel like I carried myself with
wisdom and with confidence. And I thought that the cure
to that was an education and was college.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Because it's the box you didn't check, right, It's the
box I didn't.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
Check exactly exactly.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
But I will say this education has in some way
been the thing that helped me find myself, but not
in a traditional sense, not a college education, but self education. Sure,
And if I didn't dive down the rabbit hole of
discovery in the culinary space and in the design space
(07:57):
and teach myself the things that I was most passionate about,
I wouldn't feel confident.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
In what I do now.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
And that wound, almost continuously to this day, makes me
have this moment of pause when any opportunity is offered
to me.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
It's almost like because I still come from a little bit.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Of that wounded place, and OVER over compensate and I
over educate, and I over prepare because not that I'm
trying to prove something to the client yourself, it's to myself.
So I feel like I've used a bit of my
insecurity to help me gain my own confidence and my
(08:42):
own knowledge, and that gives me more pride than if
I would have gone to college.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
And I want to talk about that for a second,
because it's funny. I did go to college and get
a formal education in the whole thing. And it's funny
because that insecurity is definitely something that I.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Carry as well, and I think throughout my.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Entire career, I over prepare for everything, and I actually
was on a podcast talking about that and he asked me,
how do you feel about being prepared? And to your point,
I think that when you are trying to still prove
to yourself, right, it's that don't get complacent, don't get
over confident, over prepared, because you have to crush this.
(09:22):
You have to crush everything you do, right. But you
educated yourself, and I think it's sort of like that
education and ultimately in the fields that you love.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
I mean, it is an education, right.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
You're doing your education every single day, I mean, and
I would argue, and now you're teaching other people and
people are learning from you, which is so amazing.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
I always want to be the student and the teacher sure,
Like I love to share all of the tools and
all of the information I've amassed over time, because I
think that people are sometimes too tight with their quote
unquote like career proprietary knowledge, and I'm like, I want
everyone to enjoy a meal like I do, or set
(10:02):
a table like I want to teach people their own tools,
maybe through the lens of some of the principles I've
learned over over the years.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
So okay, So first off, you became a mother very
young right, I did.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
And how old you have a son? Right?
Speaker 4 (10:18):
I have a son. He is twenty years old.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
I don't even understand that. You look twenty years old
to me, by the way.
Speaker 4 (10:25):
Oh well, thank you, bless you. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
I mean I got pregnant at twenty six, which isn't that.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
No, yeah, it's not that. No, it was just for me.
Speaker 4 (10:35):
It happened before career.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Yeah, so you know, I moved to Manhattan, Like I said,
I was either nineteen or twenty. I worked in the
night clubs at the Limelight, the Tunnel and the Palladium,
which is like crazy, I'm sure you were. I had
a shaved head and a septum ring. I was like
working my like bad girl because I was such a
good girl, look like charcoal eyes and like the septembering
(11:02):
and the white tank, the white tank.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
The white tank. Yes, yes, yes, oh my god, I
can see that though.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
I like that for you, I could see it.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
Was really fun.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
I was just trying to be like bad ass because
I was such a good girl. Like literally, I did
some modeling that didn't really work out.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
I went to acting school.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
I was studying method acting that turned out to be
amazing but also really intense for me. I think I
was just like too fragile. I'm always like in this
person that's like outside watching myself, and it caused me
to like watch myself without much more and using your
art for you know, you know, to tap into your
trauma for your art was just like it just wasn't
(11:43):
good for me. Sure it wasn't making me happy because
I felt really unaccomplished.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
I felt like I was living in this like beautifully
dynamic city that offered so many opportunities, and that each
opportunity I tried to grasp that or achieve or was
passionate in wasn't quite panning out for me. And you know,
I ended up falling in love.
Speaker 4 (12:09):
And you know, I met.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Victor when I was nineteen or twenty, the year I
moved to Manhattan, so I you know, i'd literally like
been with one teenager before I was the Victor and unreal.
It's just crazy and I know you probably it later,
but you have a similar story, which I love. But
everybody says, you know, you have to find your career
(12:34):
before you find love, and you have to find your
career before you have a family, and everyone believes that,
and I believed that but not true. I leaned into
what brought me joy, and career wasn't working for me
and I hadn't figured that out yet.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
But what I did figure out was my gold was
my love and my family.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
And that's a time where I was just struggling to
find me. I found me, and the joyous, jovial, happy
human that I am came alive around Victor and.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Such jells I such shells. God.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
Yeah, and having a baby.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
It was just like the sweetest beautiful moment in my
life where Victor was on the road traveling around the
world and we had this newborn baby and we just
traveled everywhere together. I just put me and career on
hold and I just explored my beautiful family life and
travel and seeing the world through a different.
Speaker 4 (13:40):
Lens as a mom.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
And all of a sudden, I was like discovering architecture
and design and patina and texture and flavor and all
of this stuff that I was just like my eyes
were absorbing everything. My taste buds were being taken on
this journey, and it was just like I was just
absorbing so much beauty. And you know, that time of
(14:05):
like being a mom, even though it's probably frowned upon
being a homemaker traveling the world. It's informed everything that
I am today. Really, that was like the impetus of
all of it. It was just this beautiful home life.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
What I am now, and.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
You know, going to culinary school and going back to
design school and starting a design business and launching Eyespoon,
all of it is from that those years of being
home with my baby victor sometimes being on the road
without me and just I don't know.
Speaker 4 (14:40):
I was like, I was.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
This twenty seven year old woman who wasn't developing herself
out in the world like most twenty seven year olds were.
I was developing myself under the umbrella and the safety
of the home. So it was never food or design.
It was never one or the other. That always happened
in tandem, and it happened within like the safety of
(15:04):
like the home, like the home became my school.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
I was a psych major, so I always say like
I just lived my life as a therapist, just for
my friends, for myself. It's how I think, it's how
I'm programmed. I would say that you needed to actually
be happy before you could do your life and your career,
and that's sort of the thing.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
And what's so interesting.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Is I was actually the reverse because I started working.
I found my career, which I wasn't even really looking for.
It just sort of happened. Maybe I was looking for it.
I think it just always so fast. But all of
a sudden I woke up eighteen years later.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
I'm like, oh my god, I need to have a kid.
You know, it was sort of like it was all happening,
and then all of a.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
Sudden, I'm amazing. We each have our own path.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
One hundred percent, and that's my point.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
But in the reverse of that, I was going so
fast that all of a sudden I had my first
son and I felt whole and complete and happy and
then looked at my life in a completely different way.
And to your point, you actually were like trying to
find your happiness and you were so hard on yourself.
This isn't working. I'm gonna try this. I'm going to
(16:08):
try this, and like, by the way, there's a lot
of pain that comes along with that, right, because you're
trying these things and you're like, I suck at this,
I suck at this, I suck at.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
And we're so hard on ourselves.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Right, So there's that and then all of a sudden,
it's almost like the universe was making a decision for
you that you couldn't then make for yourself. Right, So
you fall in love, you have a baby, you're at peace,
you're living your sort of this nomadic you know, young
twenty something life, rolling around with a baby. I mean,
(16:39):
to me, that's the dream. But all of a sudden,
you're like, hey, this is what I'm obsessed with, this
is what makes me happy. And then I swoon born
out of this.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Right.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
So I remember it was funny because I remember when
you sent me your first book, and I knew about
you because we have a lot of mutual friends, and
I was like, who is this incredibly beauty full chic
woman that everything she touches just looks so pretty. And
I just remember like getting your book and it came
with Palasanto sticks. I remember, I remember correctly, and I
(17:11):
just remember my boys. I was like, this is magical,
this Palasanta. So my little one just kept going around
going everyone needs Palo Santo, and he just kept he
just kind of putting it in every room, and he
would put it.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
In his bed and sleep at night.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
And so I said, oh my god, this is incredible
because every page.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
I turned was more beautiful than the next.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
And then we started spending time together at things in
the summer and I was like, she is just her
own little magical elf that kind of walks around with
her fairy dust and just you have this very sort
of ballerina way about you, which is funny because I
didn't know you were a dance. I don't even know
if you were a ballet dancer, but you have that
very swan like way in which you carry yourself. And
(17:52):
it's so funny because I remember we went to this
beautiful dinner, Zimmerman Dinner a couple summers ago, and I said,
that was the pretty est dinner ever. It got me
like excited to do my next thing. And I just
remember afterwards realizing that you were the magic behind a
lot of that setting. And Malcolm's like, well, Athena did that.
(18:13):
I was like, Okay, now everything makes sense to me
and I remember every aspect of it. And so I think,
you know, once you started this whole business, so that
was probably what like ten twelve years ago, right twenty eleven,
I think you started right I started.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
Yeah, And it was really just a way for me
to kind of share a lot. It was right after
our first summer out in Hampton. I'm against it, and
I had this like wealth of like knowledge about just
doing my own renovation.
Speaker 4 (18:43):
Of a home from top to bottom.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
And I was also hosting in my home and like
creating recipes and friends were asking for recipes and design advice,
and I was like, you know what, let me just
like write all this down for our friends on a
tumbler page.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
So it was really like it was, I know, a
tumbling wow. Crazy.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
So it really was just in some crazy way, like
if I go back and think back, you know the
things like I wanted to model and that never worked out.
But like part of like figuring out I swoon was
also like visual identity and different than modeling. It was
about the image and about creating an evocative image. So
(19:23):
it was like me picking up a camera and figuring
out like photography.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
It was so like it was incredible, Like it was
also like.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Me figuring out like I love, Like the one thing
that I loved growing up was writing in school. But
like so it was leaning into like all the various
pieces of myself that I thought were irrelevant that weren't
accumulating to somewhere. It was almost like I swoon, became
this container to hold of all of them. It was
(19:52):
like everything in the home that I love, plus my
love of imagery, plus my love of writing. And I
was like, I finally realize that I didn't have to
find a singular thing to make me successful, that I
can instead use all of these little moments.
Speaker 4 (20:09):
That were leading to me.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
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Speaker 2 (21:11):
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Speaker 2 (22:46):
It's really amazing.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
And now I feel like you are really this hybrid
of so many things. That's what's so kind of amazing.
And I think you know, when I think of you,
it's home, it's entertaining, it's food, it's setting the prettiest table.
And now you just did an amazing collaboration with Creighton
Beryl Right, I did.
Speaker 4 (23:04):
Yeah, this year was a huge year. And the I mean,
I've always really believe in the power of manifestation. I
know I'm not in la you know, no woman, but
like I do believe in setting.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
You are very West coast. Can I just put that
out there? You seem very west coast. You're very West coast.
You're very West coast. Like if you told me you
lived in Venice, like by the canals, it would one
hundred percent like buy into that a billion percent.
Speaker 4 (23:31):
So I do believe in setting intentions.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
And you know, years ago I set the intention to
write a book and I said, I don't want to
just do design or food.
Speaker 4 (23:40):
I want one of each. And I really believe that
with each year or each.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
Couple of years, it's so important to like reassess what
your goals are. And like I wanted to do the books.
I did the food, you know, I did the cookbook
that wanted James Beard Award. I wrote the design book
that's still number one bestseller, and I'm so proud of those.
Speaker 4 (23:57):
But then it was like, Okay, what's next next?
Speaker 3 (24:00):
Because I'm always wanting to grow and expand and figure out,
you know, how I can challenge myself creatively, and you know,
the Create and Barrel collection was something that I definitely
put out into the universe.
Speaker 4 (24:11):
Years ago and started to build a relationship.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
And I think it's really important, Like, you know, as
I started working together with brands, it was really important
to me to like relationship building is everything, everything everything,
Like I cannot stress enough how important it is. Like
I literally I only have a team of five now
in this past year, but prior to that, I had
one employee she's been with me eight years. Like, it's
(24:35):
so important to build relationships. So my point being is
that Creighton Barrel I started small building these relationships with them,
working with them over the holidays to create you know,
recipe development, you know, holiday table scapes, like just finding
little ways that I could start to meet the team
at Creighton Barrel.
Speaker 4 (24:53):
So it was to your point, things don't just like happen.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
They don't just happen.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
They don't just happen. It was, you know, three solid
years of doing content for Creton Barrel. Wow, and then
finally just you know, asking, just saying like, I'd love
to be considered to do. I saw what they did
with LeAnn Ford. I was blown away by it. There's
so much about like craftsmanship and quality, and you know,
(25:19):
it was just something I put out there and it
was really well received. And what's interesting is they wanted
me to do a decorative accessories and tabletop collection, right,
followed by a furniture collection six months later.
Speaker 4 (25:32):
Right, And because I'm food and design or like all
those things. Yeah, yeah, of course where those things overlap
is around the table.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
So I was like, wait a minute, I can't like
show my my dinnerware on someone else's table or style
the objects on someone else's sideboard. So I just I
went to them, which you know, sometimes you just have
to be like take a risk and like sorry, just
be balls out, Like oh, I wanted to create and
I was like, I know, you guys know how to
(26:03):
roll out your collections. However, like I am the entirety
of the home, and I know that this would push
the collection out. Yeah, yeah, would you consider just doing
one holistic collection together?
Speaker 4 (26:16):
And that's what we did. It was one hundred and
forty pieces.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Jesus was the most.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Beautiful that I mean, I saw it. It's incredible. I
mean I lost my mind. And I also think, like listen,
I know, Creton Beryl is this huge, incredible brand.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
I mean I've known it since you know, the beginning.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
But I feel like you just brought such incredible value
and even more recognition in this sort of you know, honestly.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
In the shakespace.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
I'm just going to say it, in this cha can
stylish place that like I know that they want to
be considered, right, but I do one thing I really
want to talk about because it kind of goes back
to sort of you know, girls asking guys out now
and all that kind of stuff. And you know, I
like to talk about in business because there's a lot
(27:04):
of questions that I get about, like I don't know,
I would never want to ask for this, or I
would never whatever. And so I want to just touch
on the fact that you actually because this is not
proto call necessarily right, and so you can sit and
wait around for opportunity to fall on you, or you
can say, hey, we know each other. We've already been dating,
(27:27):
right and I've been writing for you guys. I know
the world of Creighton Barrel, like I know, but like,
guess what, I now want to do more and I
think you should consider me for this and not just
do I want to do entertaining, but I actually want
to do furniture and at the same time, and guess what,
it worked. And I have a theory about creative people
and I always have and maybe because I am one,
(27:49):
but I think the minute you try to stifle control
creative minds and creative people, it really limits the possibilities
of what they can do. And I find that if
you just empower creative talent, that's when you see the
magic happen. But I think there's a lot of mistakes
in that space where you know, a lot of times
(28:12):
corporate America gets in the way and they sorry. I
love corporate America, but I think sometimes, you know, I
think we all just have to own what we do right,
and what our strengths are and what our challenges are.
And trust me, I have a laundry list of challenges
and I am hyper aware of them. I but we
all do, and we're all different learners and we all
have different gifts, right, And I think that you're just
yet another amazing example of not being this traditional learner,
(28:39):
this traditional person that was like, oh, I'm going to
run through the education system like everybody else. I'm the
same kind of learner as all the other kids. And
that's why I just as a parent later in life,
I just constantly scream at the top of every mountain
I can find that every child has their own magic,
every child has their own intelligence, every child has their
own superpower.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
And I think it's only now that this.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Schools and the world is starting to embrace every kind
of learner and not sort of tripping them up and
saying you have to learn this, you have to learn math,
like this.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
You have to read like this, you have to write
like this. That's all changing. And I think that when
I listen to you and a.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
Lot of the amazing women that I've had on climbing
and heels, so many were lost.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Listen, I was not a student.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
I was when I tried, and then I got a's
and whatever, but it wasn't my calling.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
I didn't want it.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
If my parents said to me, you didn't have to
go to college, you can start working, I would have
one hundred percent done that, you know.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
And if I think for them, they just sort of
knew what I was capable of, so they were like,
we know you can do this, so please just do
this and then you can work for the rest of
your life, you know. And in hindsight, you know, I
look at college as the place I grew up, right,
I look at it as the place where I learned
to take care of myself.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
But that's not for everybody.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
And I think that conversation is getting more and more
peeling back, more and more layers of that conversation now
with our own kids. But I think for you, I
look at your success, I look at who you are,
and I know that it didn't happen overnight. And I
know that you've worked your ass off and I know
that there were challenges, and I think the one sort
of last thing I want to talk to you about
(30:12):
is sort of like, were there moments where you were
like I'm done, Like sort of those moments that you
tripped up and said you woke up in tears, You're like,
I can't find my way, I can't do this, none
of this is working. I'm done, right, like you know,
And then was there that moment contrary to that, was
there the moment if you remember it, where you were like, Okay,
(30:34):
I got this, I'm good at this, I can do this,
and this.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Is working, you know?
Speaker 3 (30:38):
Yeah, I mean I would say like just before I started,
I soon I had this moment where like, you know,
I don't know that it was like diagnosed, but I
was depressed.
Speaker 4 (30:50):
Yeah, I was certainly depressed.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
And I would turn in inward and get really like
quiet and contemplative and victorim or you know, we've been
married twenty four years.
Speaker 4 (31:02):
And like I remember that was like the only time
in our marriage that he was like are we okay?
Like what's going on? And I remember like lashing out
and being like it's not.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
Us right, Like you have like extreme success and I'm
still like trying to find my way and feeling really
empty and I feel like a failure. You know.
Speaker 4 (31:26):
That was a real big moment where I just couldn't
figure it out.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
I felt trapped within the confines of my mind and
I just couldn't figure out my place in this creative world.
Speaker 4 (31:38):
So that was like a big moment, a big moment
of like self.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Reflection and like yeah, and sort of like it's those
moments you don't really want to get out of bed
in the morning because you're like I felt guilty.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
Too, because like I had a beautiful home, a beautiful marriage,
a gorgeous child, Like you know, I also beat myself
up about that as well, But it was just that
like I wanted more for me and I knew I
had more to offer, and I just couldn't figure out
where it would land.
Speaker 4 (32:04):
So that was hard.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
And then I remember after I started I Swoon, there
was like a series of like moments that you know,
felt celebrated finally of like my House and Magancett being
published in Elle Decor was like a big moment, And
then we had our apartment in Dumbo that you know,
the dream Harper's Bizarre had done like a profile on that,
(32:27):
and that moment when Harper's wrote the story about our
Dumbo apartment, I had just launched ey Swoon.
Speaker 4 (32:34):
I had something I.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
Felt pride in, so I kind of shared you know
what I swoon was, and that culminated at the same
time as Instagram launching. And there was this one moment
that I only realized recently with somebody on Instagram when
I kind of was sharing that I did both food
and design and how you know, the thread that ties
(32:55):
them together is the umbrella of the home, and how
I was a mom, but I also loved fashion, and
you know, like anyway, I was sharing all these varied
parts of myself that felt chaotic maybe, but also under
some sort of unifying girld.
Speaker 4 (33:11):
Sorry, I'm getting off topic now, No, you're not at all.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
Somebody made a comment in my like all of you know,
five hundred followers on Instagram, but somebody said at that time,
I love that you can represent being more than one thing,
and all of a sudden, I don't even know who
this person was.
Speaker 4 (33:29):
I'd love to like go back and find that comment.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
But that just shifted something in me and it made
me realize that you don't have to be singular to
find success.
Speaker 4 (33:40):
And that was the moment.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
And now years later, I have a podcast called more
Than One Thing, which I thought I came up with
on my own, but I did it because it was
kind of from that Instagram comment.
Speaker 4 (33:50):
I guess my point is.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
Is like inspiration and confidence and finding yourself can come
from a myriad of different places. You know, it comes
from your own creativity, It comes from embracing all the
facets of yourself, sometimes in some random like coming together
of various worlds, like you can find yourself through social
(34:11):
media or you know, like I even think that, like
my eye has been refined and defined further through styling
and through design and through photography and through Instagram. And
it doesn't always have to be from an education in college.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
It doesn't always have to be from you know.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
I also had insecurity that I never came up the
traditional workforce, like whether it be.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Corporate or what like, So why are we so hard
on ourselves? Why is that it's wild?
Speaker 4 (34:44):
Because it's I don't know.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
I like each step along my way I've learned and
I've improved and I've self educated and I've gained confidence
and I'm still on that path.
Speaker 4 (34:56):
You know.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
Right after the creatin Barrel collection, we decided to launch
e commerce platform and now I'm also leading into my
own product development. And now I'm a marketplace and figuring
out how to grow a team and run a business
and you know, understand financial models and this is completely
new for me, and it's so foreign in a similar
(35:19):
way the way it was when I started I swoon,
sure like seo was foreign to me and photography was quarts.
I constantly pushed myself into these uncomfortable moments because they
are and these fearful moments. I'm like, I'm in a
place right now where like I mean, not that long
ago today, I was like in tears about like am
(35:41):
I on the right path? Like am I pushing myself
away from my creativity to lean into this business.
Speaker 4 (35:48):
Woman and marketplace. It's it's overwhelming, it's confusing. I'm making
expensive mistakes.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
Yeah, by the way, and building a business, every freaking
mistake is expensive. I can definitely say that, and a
lot of women have said that on the podcast, and
I think being an entrepreneur is a whole different part
of the journey that goes from being you to we,
and it's complicated, but I think.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
To your point, I actually have never believed in singular.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
I have always believed in holistic and that's always been
my approach to styling. I always called myself a lifestyle brand,
never just a stylist, because it's not just clothes. It's
the hair, the makeup, how you carry yourself, it's all
of it. It's how you entertain, it's how you live
your life, right, And I think that that's what you're doing.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
And I just might add quite beautifully. So I'm a fan.
You have so many fans.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
I'm so impressed with what you've built, and so many
people are impressed with what you've built. And I also
want to say that you've built success in a space
that is.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Considered to be very niche.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
And also, I think by doing multiple things, I think
that you engage a lot of different kinds of people
and a lot of different styles. And I think that
what resonates so much, at least with me, and people
that have always resonated with me are people that I
can sense their passion for what they're doing and their
genuine love. It's not just like, oh, I'm doing this
(37:16):
to make money. It's like I'm actually doing this because
I'm obsessed with what I'm doing and I'm going to
obsess over every detail.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
Oh, and I'm going to share how I do that right.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
And I think that people, you know, social media consumers
in general, they're not dumb. And I think that people
really sense the real deal and authenticity. And you know,
my husband has always really screamed that at the top
of mountains, is that ultimately the people that win or
the people that are authentic to who they are. And
(37:48):
you know, and clearly at least from where I sit,
and I'm not such a oh I want to watch
this person.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
I want to watch this.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
Person like I fell for you because I actually just
love what you do and I just adored you and
I could tell how much you love it. And again
you have this little swan like way about you, like
I knew you were a dancer before I knew you
were a dancer. I can clock dancers a mile away.
It's how they stand, how they walk, how they put
things down.
Speaker 3 (38:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (38:15):
No, it's so true.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
And thank you about saying the authenticity because I do
think that everything that I.
Speaker 4 (38:20):
Do now really was born out of this place of
wanting to. I have always been about.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
Connectivity and community, and it's likely because I didn't have it,
like I didn't for a really long time in the workplace,
and I also felt quite isolated as a young mom.
So I always just wanted to bring people around the
table to you know, I was always a people pleaser,
like I wanted to create a meal for them and
share the recipe with them. I want to learn and
(38:47):
I want to push it back out into the world,
and that is at the core of who I am
and what I do, and that's the core of.
Speaker 4 (38:53):
What Isswoo is as well.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
Well.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
I love it and I'm so happy for you, and
I mean our listeners they probably they are already in
love with you, but if they're not, they will be
now because you know.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
And also, I'd like to.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Say that you can't see Athena, but she's strikingly beautiful.
But she also has incredible style. She's like the person
that runs around in that like gorgeous outfit, like barefoot,
and you're like, why does she look so cool like that?
Like you know, so I think I'm just giving people
the visuals, but you know, I just think, keep doing
what you're doing. And my one takeaway for you would
(39:27):
be just don't lose sight of what you love. Thank you,
Thank you so much, because sometimes in business nice and
when you're building business, all of a sudden, what you
love starts getting pushed down and you just catch it.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
That's all I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (39:41):
Yeah, I mean, if you don't mind, I'd love to
ask you a question.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Yeah, of course.
Speaker 3 (39:45):
You know, you built your business and your brand being
a creative and being a stylist and following your gut
and intuition in a creative space. How did you retain
yourself as a creative as you became I'm a business
woman and an entrepreneur and you launched Curator, and like,
(40:05):
can you speak a little bit about like going from
creative to founder and like how to make sure that
you retained a bit of that creative foundation that you
are built off. Well?
Speaker 1 (40:17):
Okay, So first when I launched my TV show and
my books and the Zoo Report, I was still styling
full time. So for me, there was still so much
creativity that I was able to project and get out
of my system. And then in twenty eleven, when I
launched my clothing line that was intended to be a
(40:40):
part of my business, not full time. And ultimately what
happened is it started. When you launch a clothing line,
it has to be full time. And as you may
know from friends in the business, when you design clothing,
about ten percent of that is creative and the rest
is business. And so I started to realize that while
(41:01):
I love to create and design, I like to do
that for other people because I like to wear other brands.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
I like to collect vintage.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
I like to wear it and I love and by
the way, I still wear my own collection probably at
least sixty percent of the time, just because there's things
that I created that I love.
Speaker 3 (41:17):
Right.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
But I think along the way, there are those moments
where I stopped remembering, I started to forget why I
loved what I was doing, because in business you do
get tangled up in it, and especially when you're the
founder CEO, it's like it's a lot and there's a
lot of people leaning on you. And so I think
it's very important to really retain the parts you love
(41:44):
the most and try and delegate the parts that suck
your time that you may not love as much, but
they need to be done, and to me, that was
actually the hardest part was finding those magical people to
do the parts that I couldn't do you anymore, you know,
but knew sort of my vision well enough to execute
(42:05):
on it with me, if that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (42:07):
I feel like I'm having a hard time retaining my
creative footprint and you know, figuring out what the structure
of the business is so that I can get that
support and delegate, you know, whether it be a president
or you know. So, was it hard for you to pivot?
Was it like a tough decision or did it just
become very apparent? Do you trust your gut as you're
(42:29):
making these shifts?
Speaker 4 (42:30):
Like it's hard to know?
Speaker 1 (42:32):
I mean, I had to stop styling, quite honestly, because
I couldn't find people that I trusted to work for me.
And I don't use I don't like to use the
word work for me. I'd like to use the word
work with me. But there were just countless people, time
after time after time that I couldn't trust with my clients.
And I realized that my business of styling was not
a scalable business because I couldn't be in all the
(42:53):
places I needed to be. I had to step away
and took a pause. I'm just now ready after. I mean,
i'll probably seven years now that I could maybe style
again because I miss it, but I miss it in
a way that's healthy, Like I would style maybe one
or two people now, you know, but again because I
know that I can do that and not have to
(43:14):
lean on so many people to help me do that,
if that makes sense, And because styling is so so touch, right,
and it's so touch and it's so emotional, and that's
always been my approach to it that and so personal,
you know, and so I think that it was impossible
to hold on to all of that and all my
other businesses, and so I had to really step away
(43:36):
from that. And so I think that the pivot has
to be when you're ready. It has to be when
you can. You know, I'm very lucky in that. You know,
Roger is my co CEO, and his strengths are my challenges,
and his challenges are my strengths, and so it works
like that. Don't get me wrong. I want to, like,
(43:57):
you know, hit him with a baseball bat sometimes, but
like but better him than like a stranger, you know
what I mean that Like.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
You know, but I don't know.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
I mean, some people would argue they rather it's a stranger.
So I think it just depends. But I think for you,
it's just hold on to what you love, because when
you lose that, you're not happy, you know. And so
that would be like probably my biggest piece of advice
for you, because you are such a creative mind and
such a creative soul.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
And I just business is really not as fun at
least for me. It's not.
Speaker 1 (44:31):
And you know, it's funny because I have really dear
friends that are such successful entrepreneurs that live for it.
They want to just start a business, they want to
write a business plan, they want to do the model,
they want to do whatever, and then pass it off.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
That's the part you love. That's not the part I love.
Speaker 5 (44:46):
That's not the part, yeah, you know you love to Yeah,
the personal aspect of the building and the creative you know,
connection and connectivity of other creative Yeah, well, thank.
Speaker 4 (44:59):
You sharing that.
Speaker 6 (45:00):
I'm definitely in a huge moment of growth and building
my team and figuring out how, you know, what those
next steps are of building and of growth, and it's exciting,
but I just want to scare. I have started to
realize that I need to make sure I retain that
creative footprint that I soon is built upon, and don't
(45:22):
grow too quickly.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
That's the thing. I think.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
The biggest thing that I've learned and also learned from
talking to a lot of very successful entrepreneurs is kind
of doing one big step at a time and mastering
that and then in a year from now, do the
next one.
Speaker 3 (45:42):
You know.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
And I'm just using a year as a timeline.
Speaker 1 (45:44):
Is just figurative, but like I just mean, I think
the biggest mistake I've seen with people going from one
thing to another or turning a creative into a business
is doing like five or ten different things at one
time and like.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
Blowing it out.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
Not in the traditional sense like you're trying to do
eighty different products necessarily at once, but it's almost like, Okay,
if you're launching your e comm, right, like what does
that look like? And let's maybe start in one area
rather than doing like eight verticals on your e comm, right, mean,
you do two or three, you know, and win it
(46:20):
that first, you know, and own that first, and then
when that's crushing it, go to the next vertical, you know,
Because I think that's the thing because I think mind's
like yours, mind's like mine and a lot of our friends.
Speaker 2 (46:31):
It's like you want to do this, you want to
do this.
Speaker 4 (46:32):
You can't just do that.
Speaker 2 (46:33):
You can't because it's all tied together.
Speaker 3 (46:36):
But it's It's also why I think it's so important
to have strategic advisors also because I am this like
creative chaos of like ideas and I need somebody to.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
Be like grounding this.
Speaker 4 (46:48):
This is scalable, Yes, this has legs. Yes, this is
what sets you apart.
Speaker 2 (46:53):
Yep, Yes you know cut that. Yes you know it's true.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
It's true, and don't over stuff and I those are
probably like sort of the biggest you know, sort of
I guess business words of wisdom that I could share
with you because it's just see, I've seen so much.
I've seen so much personally, professionally and around me, you know.
And I will say, like entrepreneurs. I bet there's like
(47:18):
Entrepreneur one oh one book of like the greatest mistakes
entrepreneurs make. And I can tell you that like I
know them firsthand from my friends, from from uber successful people,
from myself, from just living a breathing and seeing it,
you know. And there's so many things, and everyone's like,
oh my god, I feel like you never make mistakes.
I'm like, oh my god, it hundreds, like hundreds, you know,
(47:40):
we all do, but that it's what takes you to
the place that you're going next and also makes you
never do that again.
Speaker 3 (47:50):
It's like the little yeah right, it's I mean, I'm
learning so much in this past year and so much more. Well,
every day, every day, every moment, every mistaque is a
moment to grow and expand.
Speaker 4 (48:02):
Well, thank you, of course, you so much.
Speaker 1 (48:04):
No, I love and adore you. I can't wait to
see you this summer. Well, thanks for being on.
Speaker 2 (48:08):
I love talking to you. I love you, I love
all you do. So congrats on it.
Speaker 3 (48:13):
All feel exactly the same way, and thank you for
your generosity and like sharing, keep processing, keep your.
Speaker 1 (48:19):
Magic fairy dust wand of making things critier all around you.
All Right, everyone, it's that time in the show when
I answer to listener questions.
Speaker 2 (48:32):
So let's see what we have today.
Speaker 1 (48:35):
Okay, what internship is best for a college student looking
to have a career in fashion? I would say work
at a magazine. You will learn everything on the ground
real quick. You know, you kind of do everything. So
I would say first and foremost, because you really learn
like the fashion closet and the styling aspect and the
market work, you.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
Make, the connections you meet great women and men.
Speaker 1 (49:00):
But I would say that's the dream if you can
work at a magazine, and I think if not, I
would say, work at a store where you can work
in like personal shopping, because you learn real quick sort
of how to style real women of every shape and
size and every style. And I think that's sort of
the best training you could possibly get is to work
in personal styling. Okay, I saw you make a breakfast
(49:22):
pastry on your Instagram the other day.
Speaker 3 (49:24):
What was it? So?
Speaker 1 (49:26):
I just recently this past weekend I do make crepes
every weekend, which my kids love. I also make something
called Dutch babies, which looks really hard but it's super easy.
And then this past weekend I made Matza brie, which
I haven't made in a while, which is basically like
it's almost like matza French toast.
Speaker 2 (49:44):
It's sort of like super easy.
Speaker 1 (49:46):
You soak five sheets of matsam and give you the
recipe real quick. You soak five sheets of matsa, you
run them under cold water. Just to soften them a little.
Put them in a bowl, add a cup of milk,
three eggs or two eggs, vanilla, two tablespoons of sugar,
and cinnamon, lots of cinnamon. You pour the liquid batter
over the matza, and you pour it into a big
(50:08):
frying pan and just kind of cook it in, almost
like a pie. And then when one side is cooked
and brown, flip the whole thing over and brown the
other side like a giant pancake, and it is just delicious.
Don't forget to submit your questions for next week's episode.
All you have to do is dm us your questions
to at Climbing in Hills pod on Instagram and I
just might answer them. Thank you so much to my
(50:34):
friend Athena for coming on the podcast. I loved hearing
Athena talk about really developing herself in the safety of
her home and really just sort of becoming this homemaker
and finding peace. After she became a mom, she was
traveling all over the world with her husband, who was
a DJ.
Speaker 2 (50:52):
She was very young. She had really tried.
Speaker 1 (50:55):
And in her opinion, really failed at multiple things and
really struggled to find her a creative happy place and
her real thing, you know, that she could really own
and develop and find her peace and happiness. And it
really came to her later after she became a mom.
(51:17):
And so many people say, you can't have a career
while you're a young mom, or you can't you know,
once you have your kid, you can't start your career.
And I think that one of the most important things
that you know, we talk about. And I think we've
had a few conversations thus far on climbing in heels
with women who really suffered in their lives by not
having that full educational experience, not going to college and
(51:41):
having that sort of box unchecked, and how empty that
made them feel, and how insecure that made them feel
for so many years, and that honestly, it really like
hurts me, like I because I feel like I really
want to destigmatize that. I really want to keep continuing
the conversation because everyone's educated in different ways, and I
(52:01):
think the more we talk about it, the less uncomfortable
it becomes for women to just feel like, you know,
trust me when I tell you, when you find your
career path, you're educated very quickly. So if you want
more at climbing and halls, content Follow me on at
Rachel Zoe and at Climbing in Hills Pod on Instagram
for more updates and upcoming guests, episodes, and all things
(52:23):
cure Tor.
Speaker 2 (52:23):
I will see you all next week month
Entrepreneurs know some of the most challenging times when starting
a business are at the beginning. At Genesis, they've harnessed
all that beginning excitement into the first ever electrified GV seventy,
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(00:27):
Hi everyone, I'm Rachel Zoe and you're listening to Climbing
in Heels. The show is all about celebrating the most
extraordinary superwomen who will be sharing their incredible journeys to
the top, all while staying glamorous. Today with me, we
have interior designer, author chef, and the founder and CEO
of I Swoon, the beautiful Athena Calderone. In this episode,
(00:51):
Athena talks about leaning into what brings her joy, falling
in love and putting her career on hold, and seeing
the world through a different lens. I'm so excit I
did for you all to listen to this episode.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
It's a really good.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
One and you will learn a lot and take away
a lot and hopefully feel a little more confident in
your superpowers. I can tell you that the common thread
of the countless women that I have had incredible conversations with.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
None of the journeys have been easy.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
None of them have been sort of this beautiful blueprint
of the plan of life and like by reality, no,
and like by twenty five I'm going to do this,
and by twenty eight I'm going to do this, and
by thirty one I'm going to be on my third
child and start my second company and like all this stuff.
So what I like to sort of get into, what
I like to talk about is definitely want to start first.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
You grew up in Long Island. I know this, right,
I did.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Not too far from you, I guess, okay, a little
bit of a world away.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
I was in Nasau County where.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Okay, yeah, I grew up in Shorthills in New Jersey.
We used to call it short Thrills. And you know,
everyone here in LA is like, what's that. I'm like,
it's Brentwood in New Jersey is really what it is?
Speaker 3 (02:07):
Actually, I don't know why I thought you grew up
in Long Island as well.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
Everyone does.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Everyone does, because we never did anything in New Jersey.
We never went to the shore since the day I
was born. We went to the Hamptons. We went to
magainst it and my parents were New Yorkers, so I
think it was sort of this place that we lived,
but we didn't really exist that much. Like I went
to school there, but we didn't have such a life there.
We were like always in the city. I was at museums,
in theater. My parents are culture freaks. So I think
(02:32):
people just think either I grew up in New York
or Long Island, because that's just sort of where I
always was, you know, and that's where most of my
friends are.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Honestly, So you grew up on Long Island? And what
kind of child were you?
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Were you like this outgoing, magnetic, charismatic, like dream big
kind of girl, or were you like in the corner,
super shy and like.
Speaker 3 (02:53):
I mean, it's kind of funny. I lived in fantasy world.
I was a big dreamer. I was like a very
I have a girly girl. My parents, who were both hairdressers.
I grew up in the hair salon, and I grew
up around a lot of colorful people, creative, you know,
loved living in this like fantastical world.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
But it wasn't a fancy world, right, more like an
artsy creative.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
I did not grow up fancy at all. My parents,
we didn't grow up with any money. We were kind
of lower class.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
But happy, like I was going to say, but happy.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Happy, and imaginative. And my family was a little chaotic.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
It was as everyone as they are, but you know, big.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Italian American family, lots of energy, lots of you know,
coming together around the table, lots of loud, boisterous expression always.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
And I go to the youngest food A lots of food,
A lot of food.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Yeah. So I would hide out in my rooms and
play make believe all the time.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
I was an absolute dreamer.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
I was always like ready to try something you know,
creative on But I did as I grew up start
to develop this strange insecurity that almost carries through to
the day right now, that like I didn't know what
my thing was. I would always try something, whether it
was you know, I'm talking about really young like dancing
(04:17):
or gymnastics, and I don't know. I always had this
kind of like chaotic and creative spirit. I never quite
knew where it would land, and started to feel shame
surrounding the ping ponging of trying lots of creative things
without anything sticking.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Okay, which is very common, by the way, and interestingly
common on this podcast. So very interesting. I know, I
know a lot of people are like I couldn't find
my way. I can figure it out. I wasn't a student.
I tried a million things.
Speaker 4 (04:44):
I wasn't a student. I wasn't a good student.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
I really I definitely had add but nobody like figured
that out, and no one ever talked about But I
love to write and I loved like art class, and
I grew myself into like dance, and you know, I
was on a dance team in high school, and you
know that was kind of what gave me discipline.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
And then again, I wasn't a good student.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
I didn't know what I wanted to study in college,
and I just like I bopped around to multiple different
schools and colleges as well.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
And I studied dance.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
I knew I wasn't good enough to be successful at dance,
so hard to do fashion, and you know, I just
was all over the place, and I exhausted myself.
Speaker 4 (05:23):
But I was so happy.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
But I was just like I was a bit of
a creative chameleon. Like whoever I was around or my
boyfriend was you know he was a dancer, so then
I was a dancer. Like I didn't have this like
stake in the ground of who I was and what
I wanted from this world. So what I did was
I just started to try everything that interested me, and
even though there was shame around it, I started to
(05:47):
realize that each of these interests were kind of I
was self educated and formulating my interests, and I never
knew where they would land, and I always felt a
little defeat did when they didn't materialize into what I
thought quote unquote success was.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
And at this point, you were like, what in like
twenty twenty, like in your twenties, right.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
Yeah, I was nineteen twenty when I moved to Manhattan
after going to a couple of different colleges and nothing sticking.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
And you feel so insecure right at that point because everyone,
I feel like when we grew up, there was such
if you didn't go to college, like it was such
a thing. And what's so funny is that I'm going
to argue to say that at least fifty percent of
the women I've had on the podcast did not go.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
To college, barely graduated high school.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
I like to talk about education a little just because
I like to touch on it because I really stand
by that our education really doesn't define who we are
in any way, and I think it's you know, listen,
I think some people really lean on it and it
really serves them in their lives. And I just think
so many people don't go to college or do choose
their own path in their educational journey, and I think
(06:58):
it's sort of like, I mean, listen, I always I
learned more in my first week of work than I
learned in four years of college. Not that I'm against
college for everybody, but I just think that conversation.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Is getting more and more relevant, you know.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
I mean what's interesting, though, is it really was a
wound for a really long time.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
I felt inarticulate.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
I didn't feel like I had like I just didn't
feel studied. I didn't feel like I carried myself with
wisdom and with confidence. And I thought that the cure
to that was an education and was college.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Because it's the box you didn't check, right, It's the
box I didn't.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
Check exactly exactly.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
But I will say this education has in some way
been the thing that helped me find myself, but not
in a traditional sense, not a college education, but self education. Sure,
And if I didn't dive down the rabbit hole of
discovery in the culinary space and in the design space
(07:57):
and teach myself the things that I was most passionate about,
I wouldn't feel confident.
Speaker 4 (08:03):
In what I do now.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
And that wound, almost continuously to this day, makes me
have this moment of pause when any opportunity is offered
to me.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
It's almost like because I still come from a little bit.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
Of that wounded place, and OVER over compensate and I
over educate, and I over prepare because not that I'm
trying to prove something to the client yourself, it's to myself.
So I feel like I've used a bit of my
insecurity to help me gain my own confidence and my
(08:42):
own knowledge, and that gives me more pride than if
I would have gone to college.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (08:49):
And I want to talk about that for a second,
because it's funny. I did go to college and get
a formal education in the whole thing. And it's funny
because that insecurity is definitely something that I.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Carry as well, and I think throughout my.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
Entire career, I over prepare for everything, and I actually
was on a podcast talking about that and he asked me,
how do you feel about being prepared? And to your point,
I think that when you are trying to still prove
to yourself, right, it's that don't get complacent, don't get
over confident, over prepared, because you have to crush this.
(09:22):
You have to crush everything you do, right. But you
educated yourself, and I think it's sort of like that
education and ultimately in the fields that you love.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
I mean, it is an education, right.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
You're doing your education every single day, I mean, and
I would argue, and now you're teaching other people and
people are learning from you, which is so amazing.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
I always want to be the student and the teacher sure,
Like I love to share all of the tools and
all of the information I've amassed over time, because I
think that people are sometimes too tight with their quote
unquote like career proprietary knowledge, and I'm like, I want
everyone to enjoy a meal like I do, or set
(10:02):
a table like I want to teach people their own tools,
maybe through the lens of some of the principles I've
learned over over the years.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
So okay, So first off, you became a mother very
young right, I did.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
And how old you have a son? Right?
Speaker 4 (10:18):
I have a son. He is twenty years old.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
I don't even understand that. You look twenty years old
to me, by the way.
Speaker 4 (10:25):
Oh well, thank you, bless you. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
I mean I got pregnant at twenty six, which isn't that.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
No, yeah, it's not that. No, it was just for me.
Speaker 4 (10:35):
It happened before career.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Yeah, so you know, I moved to Manhattan, Like I said,
I was either nineteen or twenty. I worked in the
night clubs at the Limelight, the Tunnel and the Palladium,
which is like crazy, I'm sure you were. I had
a shaved head and a septum ring. I was like
working my like bad girl because I was such a
good girl, look like charcoal eyes and like the septembering
(11:02):
and the white tank, the white tank.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
The white tank. Yes, yes, yes, oh my god, I
can see that though.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
I like that for you, I could see it.
Speaker 4 (11:09):
Was really fun.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
I was just trying to be like bad ass because
I was such a good girl. Like literally, I did
some modeling that didn't really work out.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
I went to acting school.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
I was studying method acting that turned out to be
amazing but also really intense for me. I think I
was just like too fragile. I'm always like in this
person that's like outside watching myself, and it caused me
to like watch myself without much more and using your
art for you know, you know, to tap into your
trauma for your art was just like it just wasn't
(11:43):
good for me. Sure it wasn't making me happy because
I felt really unaccomplished.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
I felt like I was living in this like beautifully
dynamic city that offered so many opportunities, and that each
opportunity I tried to grasp that or achieve or was
passionate in wasn't quite panning out for me. And you know,
I ended up falling in love.
Speaker 4 (12:09):
And you know, I met.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Victor when I was nineteen or twenty, the year I
moved to Manhattan, so I you know, i'd literally like
been with one teenager before I was the Victor and unreal.
It's just crazy and I know you probably it later,
but you have a similar story, which I love. But
everybody says, you know, you have to find your career
(12:34):
before you find love, and you have to find your
career before you have a family, and everyone believes that,
and I believed that but not true. I leaned into
what brought me joy, and career wasn't working for me
and I hadn't figured that out yet.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
But what I did figure out was my gold was
my love and my family.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
And that's a time where I was just struggling to
find me. I found me, and the joyous, jovial, happy
human that I am came alive around Victor and.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Such jells I such shells. God.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
Yeah, and having a baby.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
It was just like the sweetest beautiful moment in my
life where Victor was on the road traveling around the
world and we had this newborn baby and we just
traveled everywhere together. I just put me and career on
hold and I just explored my beautiful family life and
travel and seeing the world through a different.
Speaker 4 (13:40):
Lens as a mom.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
And all of a sudden, I was like discovering architecture
and design and patina and texture and flavor and all
of this stuff that I was just like my eyes
were absorbing everything. My taste buds were being taken on
this journey, and it was just like I was just
absorbing so much beauty. And you know, that time of
(14:05):
like being a mom, even though it's probably frowned upon
being a homemaker traveling the world. It's informed everything that
I am today. Really, that was like the impetus of
all of it. It was just this beautiful home life.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
What I am now, and.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
You know, going to culinary school and going back to
design school and starting a design business and launching Eyespoon,
all of it is from that those years of being
home with my baby victor sometimes being on the road
without me and just I don't know.
Speaker 4 (14:40):
I was like, I was.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
This twenty seven year old woman who wasn't developing herself
out in the world like most twenty seven year olds were.
I was developing myself under the umbrella and the safety
of the home. So it was never food or design.
It was never one or the other. That always happened
in tandem, and it happened within like the safety of
(15:04):
like the home, like the home became my school.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
I was a psych major, so I always say like
I just lived my life as a therapist, just for
my friends, for myself. It's how I think, it's how
I'm programmed. I would say that you needed to actually
be happy before you could do your life and your career,
and that's sort of the thing.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
And what's so interesting.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Is I was actually the reverse because I started working.
I found my career, which I wasn't even really looking for.
It just sort of happened. Maybe I was looking for it.
I think it just always so fast. But all of
a sudden I woke up eighteen years later.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
I'm like, oh my god, I need to have a kid.
You know, it was sort of like it was all happening,
and then all of a.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
Sudden, I'm amazing. We each have our own path.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
One hundred percent, and that's my point.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
But in the reverse of that, I was going so
fast that all of a sudden I had my first
son and I felt whole and complete and happy and
then looked at my life in a completely different way.
And to your point, you actually were like trying to
find your happiness and you were so hard on yourself.
This isn't working. I'm gonna try this. I'm going to
(16:08):
try this, and like, by the way, there's a lot
of pain that comes along with that, right, because you're
trying these things and you're like, I suck at this,
I suck at this, I suck at.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
And we're so hard on ourselves.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Right, So there's that and then all of a sudden,
it's almost like the universe was making a decision for
you that you couldn't then make for yourself. Right, So
you fall in love, you have a baby, you're at peace,
you're living your sort of this nomadic you know, young
twenty something life, rolling around with a baby. I mean,
(16:39):
to me, that's the dream. But all of a sudden,
you're like, hey, this is what I'm obsessed with, this
is what makes me happy. And then I swoon born
out of this.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
Right.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
So I remember it was funny because I remember when
you sent me your first book, and I knew about
you because we have a lot of mutual friends, and
I was like, who is this incredibly beauty full chic
woman that everything she touches just looks so pretty. And
I just remember like getting your book and it came
with Palasanto sticks. I remember, I remember correctly, and I
(17:11):
just remember my boys. I was like, this is magical,
this Palasanta. So my little one just kept going around
going everyone needs Palo Santo, and he just kept he
just kind of putting it in every room, and he
would put it.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
In his bed and sleep at night.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
And so I said, oh my god, this is incredible
because every page.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
I turned was more beautiful than the next.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
And then we started spending time together at things in
the summer and I was like, she is just her
own little magical elf that kind of walks around with
her fairy dust and just you have this very sort
of ballerina way about you, which is funny because I
didn't know you were a dance. I don't even know
if you were a ballet dancer, but you have that
very swan like way in which you carry yourself. And
(17:52):
it's so funny because I remember we went to this
beautiful dinner, Zimmerman Dinner a couple summers ago, and I said,
that was the pretty est dinner ever. It got me
like excited to do my next thing. And I just
remember afterwards realizing that you were the magic behind a
lot of that setting. And Malcolm's like, well, Athena did that.
(18:13):
I was like, Okay, now everything makes sense to me
and I remember every aspect of it. And so I think,
you know, once you started this whole business, so that
was probably what like ten twelve years ago, right twenty eleven,
I think you started right I started.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
Yeah, And it was really just a way for me
to kind of share a lot. It was right after
our first summer out in Hampton. I'm against it, and
I had this like wealth of like knowledge about just
doing my own renovation.
Speaker 4 (18:43):
Of a home from top to bottom.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
And I was also hosting in my home and like
creating recipes and friends were asking for recipes and design advice,
and I was like, you know what, let me just
like write all this down for our friends on a
tumbler page.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
So it was really like it was, I know, a
tumbling wow. Crazy.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
So it really was just in some crazy way, like
if I go back and think back, you know the
things like I wanted to model and that never worked out.
But like part of like figuring out I swoon was
also like visual identity and different than modeling. It was
about the image and about creating an evocative image. So
(19:23):
it was like me picking up a camera and figuring
out like photography.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
It was so like it was incredible, Like it was
also like.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
Me figuring out like I love, Like the one thing
that I loved growing up was writing in school. But
like so it was leaning into like all the various
pieces of myself that I thought were irrelevant that weren't
accumulating to somewhere. It was almost like I swoon, became
this container to hold of all of them. It was
(19:52):
like everything in the home that I love, plus my
love of imagery, plus my love of writing. And I
was like, I finally realize that I didn't have to
find a singular thing to make me successful, that I
can instead use all of these little moments.
Speaker 4 (20:09):
That were leading to me.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
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Speaker 2 (21:11):
What will you begin?
Speaker 1 (21:12):
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Speaker 2 (22:46):
It's really amazing.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
And now I feel like you are really this hybrid
of so many things. That's what's so kind of amazing.
And I think you know, when I think of you,
it's home, it's entertaining, it's food, it's setting the prettiest table.
And now you just did an amazing collaboration with Creighton
Beryl Right, I did.
Speaker 4 (23:04):
Yeah, this year was a huge year. And the I mean,
I've always really believe in the power of manifestation. I
know I'm not in la you know, no woman, but
like I do believe in setting.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
You are very West coast. Can I just put that
out there? You seem very west coast. You're very West coast.
You're very West coast. Like if you told me you
lived in Venice, like by the canals, it would one
hundred percent like buy into that a billion percent.
Speaker 4 (23:31):
So I do believe in setting intentions.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
And you know, years ago I set the intention to
write a book and I said, I don't want to
just do design or food.
Speaker 4 (23:40):
I want one of each. And I really believe that
with each year or each.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
Couple of years, it's so important to like reassess what
your goals are. And like I wanted to do the books.
I did the food, you know, I did the cookbook
that wanted James Beard Award. I wrote the design book
that's still number one bestseller, and I'm so proud of those.
Speaker 4 (23:57):
But then it was like, Okay, what's next next?
Speaker 3 (24:00):
Because I'm always wanting to grow and expand and figure out,
you know, how I can challenge myself creatively, and you know,
the Create and Barrel collection was something that I definitely
put out into the universe.
Speaker 4 (24:11):
Years ago and started to build a relationship.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
And I think it's really important, Like, you know, as
I started working together with brands, it was really important
to me to like relationship building is everything, everything everything,
Like I cannot stress enough how important it is. Like
I literally I only have a team of five now
in this past year, but prior to that, I had
one employee she's been with me eight years. Like, it's
(24:35):
so important to build relationships. So my point being is
that Creighton Barrel I started small building these relationships with them,
working with them over the holidays to create you know,
recipe development, you know, holiday table scapes, like just finding
little ways that I could start to meet the team
at Creighton Barrel.
Speaker 4 (24:53):
So it was to your point, things don't just like happen.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
They don't just happen.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
They don't just happen. It was, you know, three solid
years of doing content for Creton Barrel. Wow, and then
finally just you know, asking, just saying like, I'd love
to be considered to do. I saw what they did
with LeAnn Ford. I was blown away by it. There's
so much about like craftsmanship and quality, and you know,
(25:19):
it was just something I put out there and it
was really well received. And what's interesting is they wanted
me to do a decorative accessories and tabletop collection, right,
followed by a furniture collection six months later.
Speaker 4 (25:32):
Right, And because I'm food and design or like all
those things. Yeah, yeah, of course where those things overlap
is around the table.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
So I was like, wait a minute, I can't like
show my my dinnerware on someone else's table or style
the objects on someone else's sideboard. So I just I
went to them, which you know, sometimes you just have
to be like take a risk and like sorry, just
be balls out, Like oh, I wanted to create and
I was like, I know, you guys know how to
(26:03):
roll out your collections. However, like I am the entirety
of the home, and I know that this would push
the collection out. Yeah, yeah, would you consider just doing
one holistic collection together?
Speaker 4 (26:16):
And that's what we did. It was one hundred and
forty pieces.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Jesus was the most.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Beautiful that I mean, I saw it. It's incredible. I
mean I lost my mind. And I also think, like listen,
I know, Creton Beryl is this huge, incredible brand.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
I mean I've known it since you know, the beginning.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
But I feel like you just brought such incredible value
and even more recognition in this sort of you know, honestly.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
In the shakespace.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
I'm just going to say it, in this cha can
stylish place that like I know that they want to
be considered, right, but I do one thing I really
want to talk about because it kind of goes back
to sort of you know, girls asking guys out now
and all that kind of stuff. And you know, I
like to talk about in business because there's a lot
(27:04):
of questions that I get about, like I don't know,
I would never want to ask for this, or I
would never whatever. And so I want to just touch
on the fact that you actually because this is not
proto call necessarily right, and so you can sit and
wait around for opportunity to fall on you, or you
can say, hey, we know each other. We've already been dating,
(27:27):
right and I've been writing for you guys. I know
the world of Creighton Barrel, like I know, but like,
guess what, I now want to do more and I
think you should consider me for this and not just
do I want to do entertaining, but I actually want
to do furniture and at the same time, and guess what,
it worked. And I have a theory about creative people
and I always have and maybe because I am one,
(27:49):
but I think the minute you try to stifle control
creative minds and creative people, it really limits the possibilities
of what they can do. And I find that if
you just empower creative talent, that's when you see the
magic happen. But I think there's a lot of mistakes
in that space where you know, a lot of times
(28:12):
corporate America gets in the way and they sorry. I
love corporate America, but I think sometimes, you know, I
think we all just have to own what we do right,
and what our strengths are and what our challenges are.
And trust me, I have a laundry list of challenges
and I am hyper aware of them. I but we
all do, and we're all different learners and we all
have different gifts, right, And I think that you're just
yet another amazing example of not being this traditional learner,
(28:39):
this traditional person that was like, oh, I'm going to
run through the education system like everybody else. I'm the
same kind of learner as all the other kids. And
that's why I just as a parent later in life,
I just constantly scream at the top of every mountain
I can find that every child has their own magic,
every child has their own intelligence, every child has their
own superpower.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
And I think it's only now that this.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Schools and the world is starting to embrace every kind
of learner and not sort of tripping them up and
saying you have to learn this, you have to learn math,
like this.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
You have to read like this, you have to write
like this. That's all changing. And I think that when
I listen to you and a.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
Lot of the amazing women that I've had on climbing
and heels, so many were lost.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Listen, I was not a student.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
I was when I tried, and then I got a's
and whatever, but it wasn't my calling.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
I didn't want it.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
If my parents said to me, you didn't have to
go to college, you can start working, I would have
one hundred percent done that, you know.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
And if I think for them, they just sort of
knew what I was capable of, so they were like,
we know you can do this, so please just do
this and then you can work for the rest of
your life, you know. And in hindsight, you know, I
look at college as the place I grew up, right,
I look at it as the place where I learned
to take care of myself.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
But that's not for everybody.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
And I think that conversation is getting more and more
peeling back, more and more layers of that conversation now
with our own kids. But I think for you, I
look at your success, I look at who you are,
and I know that it didn't happen overnight. And I
know that you've worked your ass off and I know
that there were challenges, and I think the one sort
of last thing I want to talk to you about
(30:12):
is sort of like, were there moments where you were
like I'm done, Like sort of those moments that you
tripped up and said you woke up in tears, You're like,
I can't find my way, I can't do this, none
of this is working. I'm done, right, like you know,
And then was there that moment contrary to that, was
there the moment if you remember it, where you were like, Okay,
(30:34):
I got this, I'm good at this, I can do this,
and this.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Is working, you know?
Speaker 3 (30:38):
Yeah, I mean I would say like just before I started,
I soon I had this moment where like, you know,
I don't know that it was like diagnosed, but I
was depressed.
Speaker 4 (30:50):
Yeah, I was certainly depressed.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
And I would turn in inward and get really like
quiet and contemplative and victorim or you know, we've been
married twenty four years.
Speaker 4 (31:02):
And like I remember that was like the only time
in our marriage that he was like are we okay?
Like what's going on? And I remember like lashing out
and being like it's not.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
Us right, Like you have like extreme success and I'm
still like trying to find my way and feeling really
empty and I feel like a failure. You know.
Speaker 4 (31:26):
That was a real big moment where I just couldn't
figure it out.
Speaker 3 (31:30):
I felt trapped within the confines of my mind and
I just couldn't figure out my place in this creative world.
Speaker 4 (31:38):
So that was like a big moment, a big moment
of like self.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Reflection and like yeah, and sort of like it's those
moments you don't really want to get out of bed
in the morning because you're like I felt guilty.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
Too, because like I had a beautiful home, a beautiful marriage,
a gorgeous child, Like you know, I also beat myself
up about that as well, But it was just that
like I wanted more for me and I knew I
had more to offer, and I just couldn't figure out
where it would land.
Speaker 4 (32:04):
So that was hard.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
And then I remember after I started I Swoon, there
was like a series of like moments that you know,
felt celebrated finally of like my House and Magancett being
published in Elle Decor was like a big moment, And
then we had our apartment in Dumbo that you know,
the dream Harper's Bizarre had done like a profile on that,
(32:27):
and that moment when Harper's wrote the story about our
Dumbo apartment, I had just launched ey Swoon.
Speaker 4 (32:34):
I had something I.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
Felt pride in, so I kind of shared you know
what I swoon was, and that culminated at the same
time as Instagram launching. And there was this one moment
that I only realized recently with somebody on Instagram when
I kind of was sharing that I did both food
and design and how you know, the thread that ties
(32:55):
them together is the umbrella of the home, and how
I was a mom, but I also loved fashion, and
you know, like anyway, I was sharing all these varied
parts of myself that felt chaotic maybe, but also under
some sort of unifying girld.
Speaker 4 (33:11):
Sorry, I'm getting off topic now, No, you're not at all.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
Somebody made a comment in my like all of you know,
five hundred followers on Instagram, but somebody said at that time,
I love that you can represent being more than one thing,
and all of a sudden, I don't even know who
this person was.
Speaker 4 (33:29):
I'd love to like go back and find that comment.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
But that just shifted something in me and it made
me realize that you don't have to be singular to
find success.
Speaker 4 (33:40):
And that was the moment.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
And now years later, I have a podcast called more
Than One Thing, which I thought I came up with
on my own, but I did it because it was
kind of from that Instagram comment.
Speaker 4 (33:50):
I guess my point is.
Speaker 3 (33:51):
Is like inspiration and confidence and finding yourself can come
from a myriad of different places. You know, it comes
from your own creativity, It comes from embracing all the
facets of yourself, sometimes in some random like coming together
of various worlds, like you can find yourself through social
(34:11):
media or you know, like I even think that, like
my eye has been refined and defined further through styling
and through design and through photography and through Instagram. And
it doesn't always have to be from an education in college.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
It doesn't always have to be from you know.
Speaker 3 (34:30):
I also had insecurity that I never came up the
traditional workforce, like whether it be.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Corporate or what like, So why are we so hard
on ourselves? Why is that it's wild?
Speaker 4 (34:44):
Because it's I don't know.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
I like each step along my way I've learned and
I've improved and I've self educated and I've gained confidence
and I'm still on that path.
Speaker 4 (34:56):
You know.
Speaker 3 (34:56):
Right after the creatin Barrel collection, we decided to launch
e commerce platform and now I'm also leading into my
own product development. And now I'm a marketplace and figuring
out how to grow a team and run a business
and you know, understand financial models and this is completely
new for me, and it's so foreign in a similar
(35:19):
way the way it was when I started I swoon,
sure like seo was foreign to me and photography was quarts.
I constantly pushed myself into these uncomfortable moments because they
are and these fearful moments. I'm like, I'm in a
place right now where like I mean, not that long
ago today, I was like in tears about like am
(35:41):
I on the right path? Like am I pushing myself
away from my creativity to lean into this business.
Speaker 4 (35:48):
Woman and marketplace. It's it's overwhelming, it's confusing. I'm making
expensive mistakes.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
Yeah, by the way, and building a business, every freaking
mistake is expensive. I can definitely say that, and a
lot of women have said that on the podcast, and
I think being an entrepreneur is a whole different part
of the journey that goes from being you to we,
and it's complicated, but I think.
Speaker 2 (36:14):
To your point, I actually have never believed in singular.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
I have always believed in holistic and that's always been
my approach to styling. I always called myself a lifestyle brand,
never just a stylist, because it's not just clothes. It's
the hair, the makeup, how you carry yourself, it's all
of it. It's how you entertain, it's how you live
your life, right, And I think that that's what you're doing.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
And I just might add quite beautifully. So I'm a fan.
You have so many fans.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
I'm so impressed with what you've built, and so many
people are impressed with what you've built. And I also
want to say that you've built success in a space
that is.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Considered to be very niche.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
And also, I think by doing multiple things, I think
that you engage a lot of different kinds of people
and a lot of different styles. And I think that
what resonates so much, at least with me, and people
that have always resonated with me are people that I
can sense their passion for what they're doing and their
genuine love. It's not just like, oh, I'm doing this
(37:16):
to make money. It's like I'm actually doing this because
I'm obsessed with what I'm doing and I'm going to
obsess over every detail.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
Oh, and I'm going to share how I do that right.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
And I think that people, you know, social media consumers
in general, they're not dumb. And I think that people
really sense the real deal and authenticity. And you know,
my husband has always really screamed that at the top
of mountains, is that ultimately the people that win or
the people that are authentic to who they are. And
(37:48):
you know, and clearly at least from where I sit,
and I'm not such a oh I want to watch
this person.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
I want to watch this.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
Person like I fell for you because I actually just
love what you do and I just adored you and
I could tell how much you love it. And again
you have this little swan like way about you, like
I knew you were a dancer before I knew you
were a dancer. I can clock dancers a mile away.
It's how they stand, how they walk, how they put
things down.
Speaker 3 (38:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (38:15):
No, it's so true.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
And thank you about saying the authenticity because I do
think that everything that I.
Speaker 4 (38:20):
Do now really was born out of this place of
wanting to. I have always been about.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
Connectivity and community, and it's likely because I didn't have it,
like I didn't for a really long time in the workplace,
and I also felt quite isolated as a young mom.
So I always just wanted to bring people around the
table to you know, I was always a people pleaser,
like I wanted to create a meal for them and
share the recipe with them. I want to learn and
(38:47):
I want to push it back out into the world,
and that is at the core of who I am
and what I do, and that's the core of.
Speaker 4 (38:53):
What Isswoo is as well.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
Well.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
I love it and I'm so happy for you, and
I mean our listeners they probably they are already in
love with you, but if they're not, they will be
now because you know.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
And also, I'd like to.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
Say that you can't see Athena, but she's strikingly beautiful.
But she also has incredible style. She's like the person
that runs around in that like gorgeous outfit, like barefoot,
and you're like, why does she look so cool like that?
Like you know, so I think I'm just giving people
the visuals, but you know, I just think, keep doing
what you're doing. And my one takeaway for you would
(39:27):
be just don't lose sight of what you love. Thank you,
Thank you so much, because sometimes in business nice and
when you're building business, all of a sudden, what you
love starts getting pushed down and you just catch it.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
That's all I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (39:41):
Yeah, I mean, if you don't mind, I'd love to
ask you a question.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Yeah, of course.
Speaker 3 (39:45):
You know, you built your business and your brand being
a creative and being a stylist and following your gut
and intuition in a creative space. How did you retain
yourself as a creative as you became I'm a business
woman and an entrepreneur and you launched Curator, and like,
(40:05):
can you speak a little bit about like going from
creative to founder and like how to make sure that
you retained a bit of that creative foundation that you
are built off. Well?
Speaker 1 (40:17):
Okay, So first when I launched my TV show and
my books and the Zoo Report, I was still styling
full time. So for me, there was still so much
creativity that I was able to project and get out
of my system. And then in twenty eleven, when I
launched my clothing line that was intended to be a
(40:40):
part of my business, not full time. And ultimately what
happened is it started. When you launch a clothing line,
it has to be full time. And as you may
know from friends in the business, when you design clothing,
about ten percent of that is creative and the rest
is business. And so I started to realize that while
(41:01):
I love to create and design, I like to do
that for other people because I like to wear other brands.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
I like to collect vintage.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
I like to wear it and I love and by
the way, I still wear my own collection probably at
least sixty percent of the time, just because there's things
that I created that I love.
Speaker 3 (41:17):
Right.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
But I think along the way, there are those moments
where I stopped remembering, I started to forget why I
loved what I was doing, because in business you do
get tangled up in it, and especially when you're the
founder CEO, it's like it's a lot and there's a
lot of people leaning on you. And so I think
it's very important to really retain the parts you love
(41:44):
the most and try and delegate the parts that suck
your time that you may not love as much, but
they need to be done, and to me, that was
actually the hardest part was finding those magical people to
do the parts that I couldn't do you anymore, you know,
but knew sort of my vision well enough to execute
(42:05):
on it with me, if that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (42:07):
I feel like I'm having a hard time retaining my
creative footprint and you know, figuring out what the structure
of the business is so that I can get that
support and delegate, you know, whether it be a president
or you know. So, was it hard for you to pivot?
Was it like a tough decision or did it just
become very apparent? Do you trust your gut as you're
(42:29):
making these shifts?
Speaker 4 (42:30):
Like it's hard to know?
Speaker 1 (42:32):
I mean, I had to stop styling, quite honestly, because
I couldn't find people that I trusted to work for me.
And I don't use I don't like to use the
word work for me. I'd like to use the word
work with me. But there were just countless people, time
after time after time that I couldn't trust with my clients.
And I realized that my business of styling was not
a scalable business because I couldn't be in all the
(42:53):
places I needed to be. I had to step away
and took a pause. I'm just now ready after. I mean,
i'll probably seven years now that I could maybe style
again because I miss it, but I miss it in
a way that's healthy, Like I would style maybe one
or two people now, you know, but again because I
know that I can do that and not have to
(43:14):
lean on so many people to help me do that,
if that makes sense, And because styling is so so touch, right,
and it's so touch and it's so emotional, and that's
always been my approach to it that and so personal,
you know, and so I think that it was impossible
to hold on to all of that and all my
other businesses, and so I had to really step away
(43:36):
from that. And so I think that the pivot has
to be when you're ready. It has to be when
you can. You know, I'm very lucky in that. You know,
Roger is my co CEO, and his strengths are my challenges,
and his challenges are my strengths, and so it works
like that. Don't get me wrong. I want to, like,
(43:57):
you know, hit him with a baseball bat sometimes, but
like but better him than like a stranger, you know
what I mean that Like.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
You know, but I don't know.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
I mean, some people would argue they rather it's a stranger.
So I think it just depends. But I think for you,
it's just hold on to what you love, because when
you lose that, you're not happy, you know. And so
that would be like probably my biggest piece of advice
for you, because you are such a creative mind and
such a creative soul.
Speaker 2 (44:26):
And I just business is really not as fun at
least for me. It's not.
Speaker 1 (44:31):
And you know, it's funny because I have really dear
friends that are such successful entrepreneurs that live for it.
They want to just start a business, they want to
write a business plan, they want to do the model,
they want to do whatever, and then pass it off.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
That's the part you love. That's not the part I love.
Speaker 5 (44:46):
That's not the part, yeah, you know you love to Yeah,
the personal aspect of the building and the creative you know,
connection and connectivity of other creative Yeah, well, thank.
Speaker 4 (44:59):
You sharing that.
Speaker 6 (45:00):
I'm definitely in a huge moment of growth and building
my team and figuring out how, you know, what those
next steps are of building and of growth, and it's exciting,
but I just want to scare. I have started to
realize that I need to make sure I retain that
creative footprint that I soon is built upon, and don't
(45:22):
grow too quickly.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
That's the thing. I think.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
The biggest thing that I've learned and also learned from
talking to a lot of very successful entrepreneurs is kind
of doing one big step at a time and mastering
that and then in a year from now, do the
next one.
Speaker 3 (45:42):
You know.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
And I'm just using a year as a timeline.
Speaker 1 (45:44):
Is just figurative, but like I just mean, I think
the biggest mistake I've seen with people going from one
thing to another or turning a creative into a business
is doing like five or ten different things at one
time and like.
Speaker 2 (45:59):
Blowing it out.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
Not in the traditional sense like you're trying to do
eighty different products necessarily at once, but it's almost like, Okay,
if you're launching your e comm, right, like what does
that look like? And let's maybe start in one area
rather than doing like eight verticals on your e comm, right, mean,
you do two or three, you know, and win it
(46:20):
that first, you know, and own that first, and then
when that's crushing it, go to the next vertical, you know,
Because I think that's the thing because I think mind's
like yours, mind's like mine and a lot of our friends.
Speaker 2 (46:31):
It's like you want to do this, you want to
do this.
Speaker 4 (46:32):
You can't just do that.
Speaker 2 (46:33):
You can't because it's all tied together.
Speaker 3 (46:36):
But it's It's also why I think it's so important
to have strategic advisors also because I am this like
creative chaos of like ideas and I need somebody to.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
Be like grounding this.
Speaker 4 (46:48):
This is scalable, Yes, this has legs. Yes, this is
what sets you apart.
Speaker 2 (46:53):
Yep, Yes you know cut that. Yes you know it's true.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
It's true, and don't over stuff and I those are
probably like sort of the biggest you know, sort of
I guess business words of wisdom that I could share
with you because it's just see, I've seen so much.
I've seen so much personally, professionally and around me, you know.
And I will say, like entrepreneurs. I bet there's like
(47:18):
Entrepreneur one oh one book of like the greatest mistakes
entrepreneurs make. And I can tell you that like I
know them firsthand from my friends, from from uber successful people,
from myself, from just living a breathing and seeing it,
you know. And there's so many things, and everyone's like,
oh my god, I feel like you never make mistakes.
I'm like, oh my god, it hundreds, like hundreds, you know,
(47:40):
we all do, but that it's what takes you to
the place that you're going next and also makes you
never do that again.
Speaker 3 (47:50):
It's like the little yeah right, it's I mean, I'm
learning so much in this past year and so much more. Well,
every day, every day, every moment, every mistaque is a
moment to grow and expand.
Speaker 4 (48:02):
Well, thank you, of course, you so much.
Speaker 1 (48:04):
No, I love and adore you. I can't wait to
see you this summer. Well, thanks for being on.
Speaker 2 (48:08):
I love talking to you. I love you, I love
all you do. So congrats on it.
Speaker 3 (48:13):
All feel exactly the same way, and thank you for
your generosity and like sharing, keep processing, keep your.
Speaker 1 (48:19):
Magic fairy dust wand of making things critier all around you.
All Right, everyone, it's that time in the show when
I answer to listener questions.
Speaker 2 (48:32):
So let's see what we have today.
Speaker 1 (48:35):
Okay, what internship is best for a college student looking
to have a career in fashion? I would say work
at a magazine. You will learn everything on the ground
real quick. You know, you kind of do everything. So
I would say first and foremost, because you really learn
like the fashion closet and the styling aspect and the
market work, you.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
Make, the connections you meet great women and men.
Speaker 1 (49:00):
But I would say that's the dream if you can
work at a magazine, and I think if not, I
would say, work at a store where you can work
in like personal shopping, because you learn real quick sort
of how to style real women of every shape and
size and every style. And I think that's sort of
the best training you could possibly get is to work
in personal styling. Okay, I saw you make a breakfast
(49:22):
pastry on your Instagram the other day.
Speaker 3 (49:24):
What was it? So?
Speaker 1 (49:26):
I just recently this past weekend I do make crepes
every weekend, which my kids love. I also make something
called Dutch babies, which looks really hard but it's super easy.
And then this past weekend I made Matza brie, which
I haven't made in a while, which is basically like
it's almost like matza French toast.
Speaker 2 (49:44):
It's sort of like super easy.
Speaker 1 (49:46):
You soak five sheets of matsam and give you the
recipe real quick. You soak five sheets of matsa, you
run them under cold water. Just to soften them a little.
Put them in a bowl, add a cup of milk,
three eggs or two eggs, vanilla, two tablespoons of sugar,
and cinnamon, lots of cinnamon. You pour the liquid batter
over the matza, and you pour it into a big
(50:08):
frying pan and just kind of cook it in, almost
like a pie. And then when one side is cooked
and brown, flip the whole thing over and brown the
other side like a giant pancake, and it is just delicious.
Don't forget to submit your questions for next week's episode.
All you have to do is dm us your questions
to at Climbing in Hills pod on Instagram and I
just might answer them. Thank you so much to my
(50:34):
friend Athena for coming on the podcast. I loved hearing
Athena talk about really developing herself in the safety of
her home and really just sort of becoming this homemaker
and finding peace. After she became a mom, she was
traveling all over the world with her husband, who was
a DJ.
Speaker 2 (50:52):
She was very young. She had really tried.
Speaker 1 (50:55):
And in her opinion, really failed at multiple things and
really struggled to find her a creative happy place and
her real thing, you know, that she could really own
and develop and find her peace and happiness. And it
really came to her later after she became a mom.
(51:17):
And so many people say, you can't have a career
while you're a young mom, or you can't you know,
once you have your kid, you can't start your career.
And I think that one of the most important things
that you know, we talk about. And I think we've
had a few conversations thus far on climbing in heels
with women who really suffered in their lives by not
having that full educational experience, not going to college and
(51:41):
having that sort of box unchecked, and how empty that
made them feel, and how insecure that made them feel
for so many years, and that honestly, it really like
hurts me, like I because I feel like I really
want to destigmatize that. I really want to keep continuing
the conversation because everyone's educated in different ways, and I
(52:01):
think the more we talk about it, the less uncomfortable
it becomes for women to just feel like, you know,
trust me when I tell you, when you find your
career path, you're educated very quickly. So if you want
more at climbing and halls, content Follow me on at
Rachel Zoe and at Climbing in Hills Pod on Instagram
for more updates and upcoming guests, episodes, and all things
(52:23):
cure Tor.
Speaker 2 (52:23):
I will see you all next week month
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