August 2, 2024 • 35 mins
This week, Rachel Zoe is joined by her good friend and fellow stylist Erin Walsh. Together, they talk about Erin's upbringing, her career path, experience as a working mom, and how she switched from acting to styling. With clients like Anne Hathaway and Selena Gomez, Erin has quickly become a powerhouse in the industry. Tune in, grab your tissues, and enjoy!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hi everyone, I'm Rachel Zoe and you're listening to Climbing
in Heels for your weekly dose of glamour, inspiration and
of course fun. Today I'm joined by one of my
favorite stylists in the industry, the lovely Aaron Walsh. Aaron
is such a powerhouse, and she's sharing all about her
journey from theater school where she thought she wanted to
(00:29):
be an actor to assist in at Vogue to world
renowned stylist. I've always aligned myself so easily with Aaron's
perspective on the fashion industry and how hard she's worked
for her success. She's also a wonderful mother of three,
and I can't wait for you to learn more about her.
So let's jump right into it. Be very excited to
(00:50):
have you. And you know, I started climbing in heels
because I think just being so inspired by so many
women in my life. I think being surrounded by extraordinary
women that do really great things, and you know, I
really do believe. You know, obviously, when I say climbing
(01:11):
in heels, for me, it's literal, but for most it's not.
Most people do wear flats, but it is really meant
to mean that while working really hard and being ambitious
and passionate and all of the things, you still embrace
the sort of powers and it's not a word, but
uniqueness of being a woman. And so I wanted to
(01:34):
have you on just because obviously styling is close to
my heart. It's what I breathe, it's what I it's
what I know and love for as long as I know.
But you know, I think sort of watching you grow
as a stylist and working with great women, you know,
I just want to have you on to talk about
the journey because you know, for me, it's every interview
(01:57):
I do pretty much starts with how did you get here?
How did you become Rachel's go And then you know
my answer to that is always like, well, certainly not
on purpose, and certainly I couldn't tell you how because
I never wrote a script or a journey or a path.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
And so when there's not one written for you.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
There isn't And I listen, I think it's also becoming
a mom. It's the same thing. There is no script
and no one tells you how to do it. But
you know, I think for you having three children and
working really hard, and the last time I saw you.
We talked about sort of the struggle with that too,
so I mean, let's get into it.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
My friend, Well, you just said something that occurred to me.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
I haven't thought of it in this way in a minute.
And even as like the title of this of climbing
and heel, I remember before I even had kids.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Got it's so funny.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
I feel like I'm going to be crying this whole conversation,
like what I'm about Like that, it's that dischotomy of
like being a super woman in the sense of like
doing having wanting to and doing all the things ambitioning
career wise and being a full mother, which are two
separate things that we try to combine.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
But the idea of.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Climbing and heels, it was something Lauren Santa Domingo said
to me before I had Matilda, and she had had
her kids at that point, and she was like, you
know what, when I had my kids, I felt like
I could prioritize. She's like, I felt like I became
superwoman because she could prioritize better. She could say no easier,
she had a better understanding of like what was important
(03:29):
and what to say yes to. So it's almost like
I feel like the heels with the.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Mothering of it. Yes, yes it can.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
It's certainly a challenge, and I don't want to act
like it's all so easy. But it does help you
step into a bigger version of yourself, oh.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
One thousand percent, because I don't think you have. I
think it forces you to.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Prize you absolutely.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
It's like whether one wears heels or I personally think
when you wear heels you feel more empowered to do
those things.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Yeah, I'm all.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
If one does not want that, like to care for that. Yeah,
I get the heels you wear.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
I can't even help sometimes on it. Probably not enhansome, no,
But I think it's that thing like.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
As we grow, like we're pushed into versions of ourselves
that are scary, and especially being a parent, because there's
so much of being a parent that is completely out
of your control and completely like not what you would expect.
So like being willing to surrender into the idea of
not just more, but like expanding into a bigger version
(04:38):
of yourself.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
I think it's part of why we're here.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
And also I think you know, I had my children
late in life and built my career and it was
funny because you know, I meet people that, I mean,
I've been meeting more and more women lately that are like, no,
I'm not having children, right, And I'm like, okay, great,
like but like it's almost a bit of a defense,
(05:03):
like no, I'm not having children. Then they go into
an editorial of why or how or because, and I'm like,
you do. You don't owe me an ex explination. But
what I find interesting is, you know, I always wanted.
I always knew I had to be a mother because
I've always been a very mothering person, and I knew
(05:25):
that it was definitely meant for me. I needed to
do it. But in the throes of being a stylist,
you work twenty four seven a lot of the time,
and I know that I definitely did for probably, you know,
good fifteen to eighteen years before my kids. And when
(05:45):
I recently presented you with this award in LA I
very clearly remember as you were accepting the award and
you came back, and then I was talking to your
sweet husband and your daughter was there, and I very
clearly remember you saying we were going to go get
a bite to eat because you were taking a red
(06:06):
eye to New York, and I remembered in that moment, Yeah,
this is actually the real kind of sacrifice and struggle,
meaning you know, and it may not feel that way
for you, but in that moment, for me, I felt
that for you because I remember when my kids were
(06:29):
very little, leaving and I remember I would have to
leave very often on like a Sunday, and it would
be like leaving the park, or leaving the birthday party,
or leaving the real mom things we do, especially on weekends, right,
And for me that was the hardest was doing that
and I and I but it was great to me,
(06:50):
and I always brought my children with me everywhere that
your daughter was with you because she saw you get recognized,
she saw you get celebrated, and then it was like, okay,
now mommy has to go to work, right and so
but she will she will know that she will have
seen that. And instead of her being home and being like, no,
(07:13):
Mommy's going to get an award and then I'm leaving
and I'll see you in forty eight hours or whatever
it is, right, it was, Okay, I'm seeing mommy get
recognized for how hard she works.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Rachel.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
I was so floored by her that night, like I
do you know what. I don't know if your kids
do this, but most of the time, my kids are
not impressed, like with all of this, and they've been
on so many photo shoots, They've come to so many
fittings right on all the clothes, They've seen it all.
They know, like all the people. And if I ask
an opinions that kind of or like do you want
to do this? Maybe not, But she was very excited
(07:44):
to come. She's in the interviews on the carpet. She
like pushed Christian out of the way and she was like,
I want to do these with my mom. And I
was like, are you sure, Yeah, that's what my kids.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
It was so funny and she like wanted to have
her pictures. I was like, look at this little person
you're becoming.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
It happens.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
And it was the first time maybe that I really
saw that she was proud. You know, yeah, I was.
I was just so moved by that because you know,
as you say, like I think so often we spend
our times with like worrying about the guilt and the
shamingarying it like yeah, that you're not doing all the
things that some other kinds of moms maybe do. I
think at this point, I worry, not to say that
(08:24):
I never worry, but I worry less about what say to.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Pick up and the drop off?
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Right?
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Well that and like if the other moms have an
opinion that not just moms, there's dads too, no humans,
but I worry less about that and like serving them,
then how is this affecting my kids and I? Because
that's the thing is always, even when I knew less
what to do, I've always tried to be completely present
(08:54):
and as much of a parent as I know how
to be when I'm with them.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
And then then there's the times that I'm not there,
and that's.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Yeah, you know, and it's hard. But I want I
want to talk about your sort of journey a little
bit because I think there's so much mystery and excitement
around becoming a stylist. And as you know, when I
became a stylist, I didn't even know what it was.
There was no path. It was now like literally no
(09:20):
idea that I could ever have a job doing something
I loved. But I do know that now you know,
you can take classes, there are books on it, there's
a million internships, there's all the things. So I want
to talk to you a little bit about your coming
up in this insanity, because it is insane and can
(09:43):
be and so total. I always said I was this
normal girl living in a crazy world. I don't know
what normal is. I don't.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
I don't think you're normal, though.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
So I don't think anyone does. But I felt normal
in the moment. No.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
I mean that in the best way, because I feel
like a wizards attract each other.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
And I find you to be more of a wizard
than a muggle.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Che I think that's what you grew up where.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
So I grew up in North Plumb Beach and I
wanted to be an actor.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
I was, I don't know, why, do you know what's funny?
Speaker 3 (10:19):
I grew up always wanting to be an actor and
thinking I was, you know, either going to be a
movie star like on Broadway, except I was always thinking
more about I was always thinking more about the clothes.
I would like as little girl, I would, you know,
going to bed, lie in bed. And I still do this,
as I'm sure you do too, Like thinking about like
different outfits. It's such a weird thing to do that
(10:40):
you would understand that at all.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
That's all I would ever take away from theaters.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Yeah, and I loved but anyway, so I did. I
got into NYU for theater. I went to School of
the Arts.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Like New York to me was like stepping into this
fantasy of everything that I never knew was possible. And
when you go to New York that way, like conservatory training,
it's like life training. You're it's not like regular college
where you have your classes and stuff. You're like in
nine to six conservatory three or four days of the week.
And the other thing that they teachose at ste Adler
(11:13):
is this idea of becoming a conscious person, like that
that's the first step to becoming an actor. So that
was my first initiation to New York. And kind of
like adulthood was the idea of like how can I
be more present all the time? Like that's that's how
it all started. And look, when I graduated, I think
I was a good actor. I don't think I was great.
I think, like my the things I was good at
(11:36):
was was because I am very empathic and I'm a
great connector, Like I connect with people so well.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
So I think those are my strengths and I probably
wasn't a great actor.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
And when I graduated I just panicked because all of
a sudden, I was like, well what if I what
if I don't get an agent and what if in
ten years i'm a waitress.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
And I was like, I don't want to fail, Like
it's this.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
I had this this visceral feeling of like, well what
if I'm the failure?
Speaker 2 (12:01):
So I was like, okay, and.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Your parents supported this process.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Like they did, but I thought they I thought they.
I decided I was going to quit, and then I
remember I was talking to my parents and I'm like,
so maybe I'm going to travel or like take some
time and they're like, okay, but who's going to pay
for that? I'm like, oh, you won't support me, and
they're like, no, you need to get a job.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Okay. It's like cushy timeline.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
But now you get it right, Like now you're like.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
That, thank god, thank you.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
So I managed a store and then I worked in
pr for a minute, and I thought I was going
to write for a fashion magazine because I'd always been writing,
was writing plays and movies during college too.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
I love writing.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
And so I threw a friend of mine who I
grew up with, who was working at Bogue. She was
like oh, come to me with this fashion party with
the girls from the fashion apartment of both I'm like,
cool this bag because I think I don't remember the
name later of the bad company, but it was very
trendy at the time. And I met Silvana, who was
working in the accessories department.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Yeah, and she was like, oh, do you want to
work at Vogue? Like there's an opening. I'm sure I
want to work at Vogue. That's great.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Okay, I've break my arm and she was literally like, okay,
We're going to get you an interview tomorrow. And I
got a job at Vogue within a week I met
with It was with Fellis Cosnik, who was the editor
of Vogue who'd been there longer than Anna and had
a reputation for being very like stern and serious. She
was the only one who was doing photoshoots with like
(13:33):
Irving Pen and she was my, good, yeah, she's she's
o G. So I Vogue you'd have like the editors
who did all the fashions like a Grace or Atani
at the time on the market, and she was more
of a sittings editor, so she would do like say
with it with Irving Penn at that time, when you
shot with him, you go into the studio, it's like
one photo for all day and you'd have a break
(13:54):
for lunch and it's filmed. Nothing's on the camera and
there's no music, there's no talking. It was more like church.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Yeah. Also it started. That's a very long wind.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
It's definitely not like that now.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
No, God, I.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Kept like the demands and the what's it called the
deliverables now like on any shoot, it's insane.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Try to stay focused.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Like totally. Yeah, that's wild. Okay, So how long were
you at Vogue?
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Not long.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
I worked for Phyllis for like a year, year and
a half. And I've said this before. It was like
oil and water. I So when I got the job
at Vogue, I remember I walked in.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Off the elevator and.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
You know, there's the big Bogue on the wall, and
I remember I still I like to think that I'm
a little bit site. Still I think that I am.
I'm intuitive, But I remember at that moment I looked
at the sign and I was like, oh my god,
this is my life. I'm going to be here for
fifty years. I see it, it's happening. I'm like, this
is it? Like where else do I go from here?
(14:58):
And it was it ended. It was like this ongoing
struggle that first of all, I knew nothing, and it's
it's a learning care for any assistant. But like I'm
sort of as you can tell this like open heart,
you know, person.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Yeah, and it just I wasn't what I got.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
I got it like it wasn't in your DNA. It was.
It wasn't free, and I at.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
That time it wasn't like because there was other editors
who like I was like hoping to transfer to but
like you know, the politics, so you can't like work
for someone.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
I know, I know. Why do you think? Why do
you think I went freelance at twenty five?
Speaker 2 (15:34):
There was nowhere to go, okay, but I was heartbroken.
I thought that was it.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
I I it was then that I realized there were
freelance stylists. So then I just started first this is
funny too. So I was like, well, maybe I'm not
going to work for Legacine. Maybe I'll go back to
the PR. And I interviewed in PR and everybody was like, no,
you need to be a fashion editor, like this right
job doesn't make sense for you. But I started working
for freelance stylists and that, and I did that for
(15:59):
like two or three years, and then I just like
jumped on my own because I I was so itchy,
you know.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Yeah, I mean it's it's it's interesting. I think you're
a Vogue girl or not. You know, I think it's
for you or it's not. And I think there's no
better training.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
There's no better training, there's no better, no better thinking.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
And the idea of like the specificity and the attention
to detail and the relentlessness and like you do. I
remember one time I couldn't make something happen, and the
lesson I got from my boss that night was well, no,
it doesn't exist at Folk, and so I took.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
That with me.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
And I always had the movie My Friend, which.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
Came out when I was there my friends who are systems,
and we saw like I just remember feeling like I
was going to throw up.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
It was so real. I was like, oh yeah, God run.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
And when I finally ended up meeting Annie many years later,
I was like, you know, I worked there when that
came out, and she was.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Like, oh man, I mean pretty wild. I mean Leslie
Freemar went on to be a big stylist and you
know who was there as well, And I think.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
I love her take on things.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
She's so real, she's so nice, ye like, yeah, it's
I think she's a good example of the power of
no annoying that serves you, you know.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Yeah, yeah, And I think listen, I think I think
styling has come a long way. I think it's digressed
in many ways. I think it's progressed in many ways.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
I think, I know, I mean.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
I think there is no more you know. I was
talking to someone about this at dinner last night, because
they were they brought up my show and all this stuff,
and I said, look, the mission behind my show was
to sort of teach people and let people in on
how the brilliance of the fashion industry actually, like what
(18:03):
was involved, and how it happened and how these you know,
these icons appeared in front of them before them, But
what went into creating that, right, right, And there was
a lot of that, But I don't think the intention
was ever to fully lift any kind of mystery, you know,
(18:23):
of fashion. And I think now, because of social there
is no mystery. We see everything, We see everything before
it even happens, We see everything before the p.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
And people think safety and everything, so they have made
up their minds about what.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
They need to do.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Sure.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
What's interesting I think about what you managed to do
is like, so I think the whole world like people
think it's so fantastical, and it is so fantastical, and
the fashion industry is filled with like these mythical kind
of iconic figures that we get used to or people
think they'll they'll never meet. And if you combine that
(18:59):
with the idea that this life that we're living a
lot of it kind of feels like a show. It
feels like a game show, like random serendipitous things. I
feel like it just brought an insider of you to
that fantastical reality that you know. That's that's why I
like people rewatching it now. I think they're like, as
(19:21):
you're saying, maybe now they're lacking some of that fantasytory,
you know, that mystery. I also like you bring a reverence.
You always brought a reverence and a level of like
seriousness about what you do. That an end of work
ethic that I think, like now I see and this
isn't criticia like anybody, but I do see, like, especially
(19:44):
up and coming people not so willing or wanting to
get their hands dirty and put in the work.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
And I think without that, you don't understand the fantasy.
Like to have the be elevated, you need to have
a base upon basis.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
I don't. I don't think you deserve the fantasy at
that point.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Like yeah, and that too, Yeah, totally, you know, And
I hate.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
To sound like harsh about it. I just I think
for me, I think you really know the talented artists
out there. You know the talent, you know the ones
that work for it, you know the ones that deserve
the success that they have. And you know west Men,
who you work with a lot, who I've known forever,
(20:27):
who I think was one of the very first makeup
artists Eber worked with with Cameron, like in two thousand
and three, I think, like on Shrek literally and Gucci
then was so highly regarded as like the queen, like
oh my god, you got Gucci Westman, you know, and
like now, you know, you see her as this mom
and she launched her product, and you know she has
(20:49):
all this success, but she's still you know, I saw
her the other day and she's still like Gucci, She's
still like oh my god, my lips Nick, you know,
and I think she's but I think there's that humility
then to me, like the surge Normans and the like.
I think that these people they're more rare now, but
(21:10):
when they happen, you really root for them, you know.
And I know for me, I just really root for
people that from what I see And I said this
when I presented you with your award. It's the it's
the starry eyes, it's the passion, it's the graciousness, it's
the I'm lucky to be doing this. I love it
(21:33):
so much, but also the humility to know that what
you're doing is a service, right, Like.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
I can't believe you just said that, Rachel, it is
a service.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
I was in the shower earlier thinking like, like, what's
one thing that I feel like is important to bring
to this conversation, And the first thing that occurs to
me was the idea that this is all it all
is about being of service, Like it is working with
fancy people or fancy clothes or any of it. That's
all kind of incidental factors that are part of the process.
(22:06):
It is about like like we're all here to like
walk in this world as our buss selves, and we
look to stars to better understand how to do that.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
That's a service.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
And like any anybody I work with, I want to
make them feel like the most beautiful, best version of
selves of themselves so that they can better shine. And
I feel like so many people miss that very fundamental.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
True because they get tangled up in the nonsense.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Yeah, I don't get it without that.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
To me, it's like without having a purpose driven reason
behind this, I don't see the point.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
You know. Yeah, I wouldn't. I would.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
I would have lost in trust a long time ago
because it's too much work and it's too much. I
mean you, you and I both work this way. It's
too much heart like, there's too much of your heart
on the line and it can be art breaking and
heart making. And so if it's not purpose driven, you know,
count me up. I wouldn't happen any other way.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
What do you find to be your greatest sort of
like fears or challenges, Like as you sit here today
and having done this for several years and having kind
of come up in your own way, and you know,
and it's funny. I I feel like, at least when
I was coming up, there was a lot of people
(23:22):
had issues with me with the fact that I came
from a like a a good, loving family. There was
some resentment as to why is she working this hard?
She doesn't need to, like she has so much support,
she has a fiance or whatever. I was like, are
you okay? Like what, I'm the first one here, I'm
(23:43):
the last one to leave. Why are you judging me? Like?
I guess my question is like, is it other stylists?
Is there still that pettiness? Is there still that competition?
I don't think there's that much anymore.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
But I think, like my biggest issue is not doubting
whether I'll get it done, or whether I'll get it
done well, or whether I will be able to serve somebody.
Because I've put in the ten thousand hours. I really
know what I'm doing at this point. My problem is
that I'm still a human and so that my feelings
(24:17):
get hurt all the fucking way. And so it's not
because I mean, you certainly you hear things and people
have opinions, and not everybody will like what you do.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
You're not going to be.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Everybody's of course, especially in this.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Especially in this and I am generally okay.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
With that, but I think the hardest part is just like, look,
if you work in this business with people, like, there's
going to be a lot of opinions, and not all
of them are going to be nice.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
So I try to you know, when do I have
some tormaline here?
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Probably I try to wear my armor, you know, but
I'm human and I get my feelings short, and I
find that to be problematic, and I try to, you know,
heart forward down and keep doing the work in a
way that feels like it's a service.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
So you're you're never going to please everyone and be thankful.
You live in a world of cancel culture where people
don't speak badly really as much anymore about people. Where
ten years ago, people who knew nothing about fashion could
not even dress themselves, were sitting there attacking these beautiful
(25:28):
talented artists and being like what were they thinking?
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Blah blah blah the world best?
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Are you okay? And I think I'm hearing.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
How I want to start asking people that are you okay?
I mean I feel like that's a good question when somebody.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Is not.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Are you on? Well? Like what like I don't get it,
Like you crazy and you're telling me that this, Like
do you or whatever that was customer like, it's this
most stunning thing I've ever seen. Who do you think
you are?
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Like right, right, it's funny, and that's funny.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
It's important to have your I think, look, if you're
aware of what matters, it's easy to like step back
into yes.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
But in the moment, it hurts.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
And also I think more importantly, even if it doesn't
hurt you or or the stylist or whoever, it hurts
the artist. Even if they say it doesn't hurt, it
does hurt. It hurts, totally, hurts.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Totally because.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
I have I think that that's harder to deal with
than like the process, because I always know, as you know,
you've said this before that you told me show like
you were having brain surgery or something. But it's not
so like if you're having a problem at a shoot
or in a fitting, like you can always solve that.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
People.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
I heard from my agent, and I find this to
be so fascinating, like that, you know, we'll call and
they complain about this person or that person around the
people and they're saying like, well, it's so hard, and
so I would never do that. I never complain. I
never I'm just like, let's let's do this. Let's solve it,
because like, why is somebody hiring you to do this
(27:18):
service for that, like get a different job if you
don't want to solve it.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
Yeah, but I do. But here's the thing that I'm
going to say. And I posted this recently on my
social and I couldn't believe the reaction to it. And
I think because historically when I was growing up, it
was always sort of like, oh my god, don't have
a woman do that. It'll be so emotional. Oh my god,
(27:45):
it'll be she will just like get hurt too easily,
or she will care too much or like or like
she'll just bring too much emotion and sensitivity to the table.
And I sit here today and I'm like, Wow, what
a fucking superpower that we have that we do bring
our emotion to it. And I would think that, you know,
(28:08):
for what you just said, like the biggest challenge is
being hurt. That was absolutely, by far and away, the
biggest challenge for me was how hurt I got by
people that worked with me, by people I work, you know,
people external people, by you know, agents that crushed me
and still owe me money today, Like you know, a
constant heartbreak in that stuff. And Roger, you know, would
(28:31):
be like, take the high road, take the high road.
I'm like, oh, like that is actually the hardest challenge
that I've ever faced in any business that I've done. Truthfully,
it was taking the high road still is, and it's
something I'm trying to teach my kids, and in all fairness,
when I teach my kids, as I say, listen, this
is something mommy has struggled with forever because it is
(28:52):
the harder thing to do taking the high road, to take.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
The high road in to also, like, I think that
in combination with just trying to step back and we
realize that people, well people show you who they are.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Yes, you know, you have to believe it. You have
to believe it.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
And I think that that lesson is really hard to
and we look, we learn that again and again because
you put the hard out there, like thanks don't always
work out the way you want.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
No, they really don't. But but I do think that
I'm I honestly love what you're doing. I love the
women that you work with, you know, I love how
much you love what you're doing.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
What's it's like, it's it's again, it's it's of service.
And also the women that I work with, they're not
just about like going out there and wearing a pretty
brothe right and like looking great. Like yeah, so those
things are happening, and that's part of it. But they
are out there, like in the most purpose driven way,
(29:54):
trying to change the world through their art and through
their sentiments and how they engage with their fans. You know,
I feel like, f yes, like that's that's why we're here.
And so like using your platform in that way, that's
what's exciting to me. And so in terms of like
taking that to another level, that's exactly what I'm doing.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
I'm working on a book call after This about that
actually that we're selling next month. The idea is my
book is.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
That I want I want to, like basically what Marie
Kondo was able to do with organization, I want to
do that for style and I want to like us
to have a system to use what we wear to
step into our best self every day. So like, what's
what's your system? What can you return to because some
of us, most of us, wake up most days maybe
(30:47):
not feeling like the best or perfect version of yourself.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
So it's like this strange combination of like metaphysical and.
Speaker 4 (30:54):
Physical practical guide because I also hadn't really seen a
style idea that was about aligning your entire life and
like how you could better do that.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
By changing your relationship to what you were so working
on that.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
I listen, I've always stood by find your uniform. Find
your uniform, and what is that uniform?
Speaker 3 (31:16):
You will be interviewed for the book rich you can
talk about that you're the that's that that is an
element of course of practical style if you because it's
that's also the confidence thing too, write if you if
you don't know what works for you, like once you
(31:37):
know that, then you can take risks and.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
Do the But I think it's just about making it
easier for everybody because it's scary for most people, the
full process.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
And it's vulnerable.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
And like if if that's like if all these other
things are going on in the world, like we don't
have to name the walk the world is very person.
Can't you start using like make it so your wardrobe
works for you better, so that you can already start
feeling and living as the person you want to be,
Like I give it a pressure manifestation.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
You're also probably too young. But did you watch the
Jetsons ever?
Speaker 3 (32:17):
Oh my god, do you know what I was thinking
of this recently?
Speaker 2 (32:21):
I did as I could, but I can't.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Like, okay, so you need to google Jetsons because if
you look at Judy and Jane Jetson, they used to
press a button and their clothes would come around and
just get being dressed. And when I was little. When
I was little, I would just sit every morning, every
Saturday and Sunday morning my sister and I My sister
(32:46):
had no interest in it, but I was like, oh
my god, if I could be Judy Jetson and I
could just snap my fingers or press a button and
then it would get dressed, and I could say what
I felt like wearing, and like, I just that's what
I was manifested. And then later on I wanted to
be elsa clench and then you know.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
Oh my god, I need to rewatch it. That's hilarious.
I feel like that probably is the future.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
Well it is, it actually is. I think we're weirdly
like not that much. That's far away from that actually happening.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
And I bet you Dubai they probably do. But let's
go talk to Dubai. When you do this, I'm done
with that. I think people want want, they're like the
logistics of their lives to be easier so they can
spend more time like living of especially with the world
thing as complicated as it is. So Jadi Johson, it
(33:38):
is I that could be another chapter.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
I love and adore you. I love knowing you, I
love watching you, I love being friends with you, I
love supporting you. And I'm excited to see you out here.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
I'm so excited.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
And I wish everybody could see what you're wearing because
you look very fabulous.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
Oh my god, not at all.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
I'm like, I'm just these are your necklaces? Pretty? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Thank you, Brian, Yeah yeah, well this one is Devin
Woodhill and this one is Briany.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Oh my god, it's so good. I can't wait to
see you. We're going to sen I'm excited. Thank you
very much.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Enjoy and I'll see you. So I'll see you very soon. Absolutely,
thank you so much. To my very sweet, brilliant friend
Aaron Walsh, were coming unclimbing in heels today. I am
so impressed by her vulnerability, her work, ethic and just
her overall sort of humility and graciousness about being so
(34:40):
lucky to do what she loves and really just be
great at it and love it so much along the way,
and still being an incredibly hands on mom to three.
So thanks for listening and I will see you all
next week. Wow.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
From the front of the Potic protected a policing from
public polic
Hi everyone, I'm Rachel Zoe and you're listening to Climbing
in Heels for your weekly dose of glamour, inspiration and
of course fun. Today I'm joined by one of my
favorite stylists in the industry, the lovely Aaron Walsh. Aaron
is such a powerhouse, and she's sharing all about her
journey from theater school where she thought she wanted to
(00:29):
be an actor to assist in at Vogue to world
renowned stylist. I've always aligned myself so easily with Aaron's
perspective on the fashion industry and how hard she's worked
for her success. She's also a wonderful mother of three,
and I can't wait for you to learn more about her.
So let's jump right into it. Be very excited to
(00:50):
have you. And you know, I started climbing in heels
because I think just being so inspired by so many
women in my life. I think being surrounded by extraordinary
women that do really great things, and you know, I
really do believe. You know, obviously, when I say climbing
(01:11):
in heels, for me, it's literal, but for most it's not.
Most people do wear flats, but it is really meant
to mean that while working really hard and being ambitious
and passionate and all of the things, you still embrace
the sort of powers and it's not a word, but
uniqueness of being a woman. And so I wanted to
(01:34):
have you on just because obviously styling is close to
my heart. It's what I breathe, it's what I it's
what I know and love for as long as I know.
But you know, I think sort of watching you grow
as a stylist and working with great women, you know,
I just want to have you on to talk about
the journey because you know, for me, it's every interview
(01:57):
I do pretty much starts with how did you get here?
How did you become Rachel's go And then you know
my answer to that is always like, well, certainly not
on purpose, and certainly I couldn't tell you how because
I never wrote a script or a journey or a path.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
And so when there's not one written for you.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
There isn't And I listen, I think it's also becoming
a mom. It's the same thing. There is no script
and no one tells you how to do it. But
you know, I think for you having three children and
working really hard, and the last time I saw you.
We talked about sort of the struggle with that too,
so I mean, let's get into it.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
My friend, Well, you just said something that occurred to me.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
I haven't thought of it in this way in a minute.
And even as like the title of this of climbing
and heel, I remember before I even had kids.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Got it's so funny.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
I feel like I'm going to be crying this whole conversation,
like what I'm about Like that, it's that dischotomy of
like being a super woman in the sense of like
doing having wanting to and doing all the things ambitioning
career wise and being a full mother, which are two
separate things that we try to combine.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
But the idea of.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Climbing and heels, it was something Lauren Santa Domingo said
to me before I had Matilda, and she had had
her kids at that point, and she was like, you
know what, when I had my kids, I felt like
I could prioritize. She's like, I felt like I became
superwoman because she could prioritize better. She could say no easier,
she had a better understanding of like what was important
(03:29):
and what to say yes to. So it's almost like
I feel like the heels with the.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Mothering of it. Yes, yes it can.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
It's certainly a challenge, and I don't want to act
like it's all so easy. But it does help you
step into a bigger version of yourself, oh.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
One thousand percent, because I don't think you have. I
think it forces you to.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Prize you absolutely.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
It's like whether one wears heels or I personally think
when you wear heels you feel more empowered to do
those things.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Yeah, I'm all.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
If one does not want that, like to care for that. Yeah,
I get the heels you wear.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
I can't even help sometimes on it. Probably not enhansome, no,
But I think it's that thing like.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
As we grow, like we're pushed into versions of ourselves
that are scary, and especially being a parent, because there's
so much of being a parent that is completely out
of your control and completely like not what you would expect.
So like being willing to surrender into the idea of
not just more, but like expanding into a bigger version
(04:38):
of yourself.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
I think it's part of why we're here.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
And also I think you know, I had my children
late in life and built my career and it was
funny because you know, I meet people that, I mean,
I've been meeting more and more women lately that are like, no,
I'm not having children, right, And I'm like, okay, great,
like but like it's almost a bit of a defense,
(05:03):
like no, I'm not having children. Then they go into
an editorial of why or how or because, and I'm like,
you do. You don't owe me an ex explination. But
what I find interesting is, you know, I always wanted.
I always knew I had to be a mother because
I've always been a very mothering person, and I knew
(05:25):
that it was definitely meant for me. I needed to
do it. But in the throes of being a stylist,
you work twenty four seven a lot of the time,
and I know that I definitely did for probably, you know,
good fifteen to eighteen years before my kids. And when
(05:45):
I recently presented you with this award in LA I
very clearly remember as you were accepting the award and
you came back, and then I was talking to your
sweet husband and your daughter was there, and I very
clearly remember you saying we were going to go get
a bite to eat because you were taking a red
(06:06):
eye to New York, and I remembered in that moment, Yeah,
this is actually the real kind of sacrifice and struggle,
meaning you know, and it may not feel that way
for you, but in that moment, for me, I felt
that for you because I remember when my kids were
(06:29):
very little, leaving and I remember I would have to
leave very often on like a Sunday, and it would
be like leaving the park, or leaving the birthday party,
or leaving the real mom things we do, especially on weekends, right,
And for me that was the hardest was doing that
and I and I but it was great to me,
(06:50):
and I always brought my children with me everywhere that
your daughter was with you because she saw you get recognized,
she saw you get celebrated, and then it was like, okay,
now mommy has to go to work, right and so
but she will she will know that she will have
seen that. And instead of her being home and being like, no,
(07:13):
Mommy's going to get an award and then I'm leaving
and I'll see you in forty eight hours or whatever
it is, right, it was, Okay, I'm seeing mommy get
recognized for how hard she works.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Rachel.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
I was so floored by her that night, like I
do you know what. I don't know if your kids
do this, but most of the time, my kids are
not impressed, like with all of this, and they've been
on so many photo shoots, They've come to so many
fittings right on all the clothes, They've seen it all.
They know, like all the people. And if I ask
an opinions that kind of or like do you want
to do this? Maybe not, But she was very excited
(07:44):
to come. She's in the interviews on the carpet. She
like pushed Christian out of the way and she was like,
I want to do these with my mom. And I
was like, are you sure, Yeah, that's what my kids.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
It was so funny and she like wanted to have
her pictures. I was like, look at this little person
you're becoming.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
It happens.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
And it was the first time maybe that I really
saw that she was proud. You know, yeah, I was.
I was just so moved by that because you know,
as you say, like I think so often we spend
our times with like worrying about the guilt and the
shamingarying it like yeah, that you're not doing all the
things that some other kinds of moms maybe do. I
think at this point, I worry, not to say that
(08:24):
I never worry, but I worry less about what say to.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Pick up and the drop off?
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Right?
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Well that and like if the other moms have an
opinion that not just moms, there's dads too, no humans,
but I worry less about that and like serving them,
then how is this affecting my kids and I? Because
that's the thing is always, even when I knew less
what to do, I've always tried to be completely present
(08:54):
and as much of a parent as I know how
to be when I'm with them.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
And then then there's the times that I'm not there,
and that's.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Yeah, you know, and it's hard. But I want I
want to talk about your sort of journey a little
bit because I think there's so much mystery and excitement
around becoming a stylist. And as you know, when I
became a stylist, I didn't even know what it was.
There was no path. It was now like literally no
(09:20):
idea that I could ever have a job doing something
I loved. But I do know that now you know,
you can take classes, there are books on it, there's
a million internships, there's all the things. So I want
to talk to you a little bit about your coming
up in this insanity, because it is insane and can
(09:43):
be and so total. I always said I was this
normal girl living in a crazy world. I don't know
what normal is. I don't.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
I don't think you're normal, though.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
So I don't think anyone does. But I felt normal
in the moment. No.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
I mean that in the best way, because I feel
like a wizards attract each other.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
And I find you to be more of a wizard
than a muggle.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
Che I think that's what you grew up where.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
So I grew up in North Plumb Beach and I
wanted to be an actor.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
I was, I don't know, why, do you know what's funny?
Speaker 3 (10:19):
I grew up always wanting to be an actor and
thinking I was, you know, either going to be a
movie star like on Broadway, except I was always thinking
more about I was always thinking more about the clothes.
I would like as little girl, I would, you know,
going to bed, lie in bed. And I still do this,
as I'm sure you do too, Like thinking about like
different outfits. It's such a weird thing to do that
(10:40):
you would understand that at all.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
That's all I would ever take away from theaters.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Yeah, and I loved but anyway, so I did. I
got into NYU for theater. I went to School of
the Arts.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Like New York to me was like stepping into this
fantasy of everything that I never knew was possible. And
when you go to New York that way, like conservatory training,
it's like life training. You're it's not like regular college
where you have your classes and stuff. You're like in
nine to six conservatory three or four days of the week.
And the other thing that they teachose at ste Adler
(11:13):
is this idea of becoming a conscious person, like that
that's the first step to becoming an actor. So that
was my first initiation to New York. And kind of
like adulthood was the idea of like how can I
be more present all the time? Like that's that's how
it all started. And look, when I graduated, I think
I was a good actor. I don't think I was great.
I think, like my the things I was good at
(11:36):
was was because I am very empathic and I'm a
great connector, Like I connect with people so well.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
So I think those are my strengths and I probably
wasn't a great actor.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
And when I graduated I just panicked because all of
a sudden, I was like, well what if I what
if I don't get an agent and what if in
ten years i'm a waitress.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
And I was like, I don't want to fail, Like
it's this.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
I had this this visceral feeling of like, well what
if I'm the failure?
Speaker 2 (12:01):
So I was like, okay, and.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Your parents supported this process.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Like they did, but I thought they I thought they.
I decided I was going to quit, and then I
remember I was talking to my parents and I'm like,
so maybe I'm going to travel or like take some
time and they're like, okay, but who's going to pay
for that? I'm like, oh, you won't support me, and
they're like, no, you need to get a job.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Okay. It's like cushy timeline.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
But now you get it right, Like now you're like.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
That, thank god, thank you.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
So I managed a store and then I worked in
pr for a minute, and I thought I was going
to write for a fashion magazine because I'd always been writing,
was writing plays and movies during college too.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
I love writing.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
And so I threw a friend of mine who I
grew up with, who was working at Bogue. She was
like oh, come to me with this fashion party with
the girls from the fashion apartment of both I'm like,
cool this bag because I think I don't remember the
name later of the bad company, but it was very
trendy at the time. And I met Silvana, who was
working in the accessories department.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Yeah, and she was like, oh, do you want to
work at Vogue? Like there's an opening. I'm sure I
want to work at Vogue. That's great.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Okay, I've break my arm and she was literally like, okay,
We're going to get you an interview tomorrow. And I
got a job at Vogue within a week I met
with It was with Fellis Cosnik, who was the editor
of Vogue who'd been there longer than Anna and had
a reputation for being very like stern and serious. She
was the only one who was doing photoshoots with like
(13:33):
Irving Pen and she was my, good, yeah, she's she's
o G. So I Vogue you'd have like the editors
who did all the fashions like a Grace or Atani
at the time on the market, and she was more
of a sittings editor, so she would do like say
with it with Irving Penn at that time, when you
shot with him, you go into the studio, it's like
one photo for all day and you'd have a break
(13:54):
for lunch and it's filmed. Nothing's on the camera and
there's no music, there's no talking. It was more like church.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Yeah. Also it started. That's a very long wind.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
It's definitely not like that now.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
No, God, I.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
Kept like the demands and the what's it called the
deliverables now like on any shoot, it's insane.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Try to stay focused.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Like totally. Yeah, that's wild. Okay, So how long were
you at Vogue?
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Not long.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
I worked for Phyllis for like a year, year and
a half. And I've said this before. It was like
oil and water. I So when I got the job
at Vogue, I remember I walked in.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Off the elevator and.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
You know, there's the big Bogue on the wall, and
I remember I still I like to think that I'm
a little bit site. Still I think that I am.
I'm intuitive, But I remember at that moment I looked
at the sign and I was like, oh my god,
this is my life. I'm going to be here for
fifty years. I see it, it's happening. I'm like, this
is it? Like where else do I go from here?
(14:58):
And it was it ended. It was like this ongoing
struggle that first of all, I knew nothing, and it's
it's a learning care for any assistant. But like I'm
sort of as you can tell this like open heart,
you know, person.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Yeah, and it just I wasn't what I got.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
I got it like it wasn't in your DNA. It was.
It wasn't free, and I at.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
That time it wasn't like because there was other editors
who like I was like hoping to transfer to but
like you know, the politics, so you can't like work
for someone.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
I know, I know. Why do you think? Why do
you think I went freelance at twenty five?
Speaker 2 (15:34):
There was nowhere to go, okay, but I was heartbroken.
I thought that was it.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
I I it was then that I realized there were
freelance stylists. So then I just started first this is
funny too. So I was like, well, maybe I'm not
going to work for Legacine. Maybe I'll go back to
the PR. And I interviewed in PR and everybody was like, no,
you need to be a fashion editor, like this right
job doesn't make sense for you. But I started working
for freelance stylists and that, and I did that for
(15:59):
like two or three years, and then I just like
jumped on my own because I I was so itchy,
you know.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Yeah, I mean it's it's it's interesting. I think you're
a Vogue girl or not. You know, I think it's
for you or it's not. And I think there's no
better training.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
There's no better training, there's no better, no better thinking.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
And the idea of like the specificity and the attention
to detail and the relentlessness and like you do. I
remember one time I couldn't make something happen, and the
lesson I got from my boss that night was well, no,
it doesn't exist at Folk, and so I took.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
That with me.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
And I always had the movie My Friend, which.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
Came out when I was there my friends who are systems,
and we saw like I just remember feeling like I
was going to throw up.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
It was so real. I was like, oh yeah, God run.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
And when I finally ended up meeting Annie many years later,
I was like, you know, I worked there when that
came out, and she was.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
Like, oh man, I mean pretty wild. I mean Leslie
Freemar went on to be a big stylist and you
know who was there as well, And I think.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
I love her take on things.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
She's so real, she's so nice, ye like, yeah, it's
I think she's a good example of the power of
no annoying that serves you, you know.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Yeah, yeah, And I think listen, I think I think
styling has come a long way. I think it's digressed
in many ways. I think it's progressed in many ways.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
I think, I know, I mean.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
I think there is no more you know. I was
talking to someone about this at dinner last night, because
they were they brought up my show and all this stuff,
and I said, look, the mission behind my show was
to sort of teach people and let people in on
how the brilliance of the fashion industry actually, like what
(18:03):
was involved, and how it happened and how these you know,
these icons appeared in front of them before them, But
what went into creating that, right, right, And there was
a lot of that, But I don't think the intention
was ever to fully lift any kind of mystery, you know,
(18:23):
of fashion. And I think now, because of social there
is no mystery. We see everything, We see everything before
it even happens, We see everything before the p.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
And people think safety and everything, so they have made
up their minds about what.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
They need to do.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Sure.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
What's interesting I think about what you managed to do
is like, so I think the whole world like people
think it's so fantastical, and it is so fantastical, and
the fashion industry is filled with like these mythical kind
of iconic figures that we get used to or people
think they'll they'll never meet. And if you combine that
(18:59):
with the idea that this life that we're living a
lot of it kind of feels like a show. It
feels like a game show, like random serendipitous things. I
feel like it just brought an insider of you to
that fantastical reality that you know. That's that's why I
like people rewatching it now. I think they're like, as
(19:21):
you're saying, maybe now they're lacking some of that fantasytory,
you know, that mystery. I also like you bring a reverence.
You always brought a reverence and a level of like
seriousness about what you do. That an end of work
ethic that I think, like now I see and this
isn't criticia like anybody, but I do see, like, especially
(19:44):
up and coming people not so willing or wanting to
get their hands dirty and put in the work.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
And I think without that, you don't understand the fantasy.
Like to have the be elevated, you need to have
a base upon basis.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
I don't. I don't think you deserve the fantasy at
that point.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Like yeah, and that too, Yeah, totally, you know, And
I hate.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
To sound like harsh about it. I just I think
for me, I think you really know the talented artists
out there. You know the talent, you know the ones
that work for it, you know the ones that deserve
the success that they have. And you know west Men,
who you work with a lot, who I've known forever,
(20:27):
who I think was one of the very first makeup
artists Eber worked with with Cameron, like in two thousand
and three, I think, like on Shrek literally and Gucci
then was so highly regarded as like the queen, like
oh my god, you got Gucci Westman, you know, and
like now, you know, you see her as this mom
and she launched her product, and you know she has
(20:49):
all this success, but she's still you know, I saw
her the other day and she's still like Gucci, She's
still like oh my god, my lips Nick, you know,
and I think she's but I think there's that humility
then to me, like the surge Normans and the like.
I think that these people they're more rare now, but
(21:10):
when they happen, you really root for them, you know.
And I know for me, I just really root for
people that from what I see And I said this
when I presented you with your award. It's the it's
the starry eyes, it's the passion, it's the graciousness, it's
the I'm lucky to be doing this. I love it
(21:33):
so much, but also the humility to know that what
you're doing is a service, right, Like.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
I can't believe you just said that, Rachel, it is
a service.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
I was in the shower earlier thinking like, like, what's
one thing that I feel like is important to bring
to this conversation, And the first thing that occurs to
me was the idea that this is all it all
is about being of service, Like it is working with
fancy people or fancy clothes or any of it. That's
all kind of incidental factors that are part of the process.
(22:06):
It is about like like we're all here to like
walk in this world as our buss selves, and we
look to stars to better understand how to do that.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
That's a service.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
And like any anybody I work with, I want to
make them feel like the most beautiful, best version of
selves of themselves so that they can better shine. And
I feel like so many people miss that very fundamental.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
True because they get tangled up in the nonsense.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Yeah, I don't get it without that.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
To me, it's like without having a purpose driven reason
behind this, I don't see the point.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
You know. Yeah, I wouldn't. I would.
Speaker 3 (22:44):
I would have lost in trust a long time ago
because it's too much work and it's too much. I
mean you, you and I both work this way. It's
too much heart like, there's too much of your heart
on the line and it can be art breaking and
heart making. And so if it's not purpose driven, you know,
count me up. I wouldn't happen any other way.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
What do you find to be your greatest sort of
like fears or challenges, Like as you sit here today
and having done this for several years and having kind
of come up in your own way, and you know,
and it's funny. I I feel like, at least when
I was coming up, there was a lot of people
(23:22):
had issues with me with the fact that I came
from a like a a good, loving family. There was
some resentment as to why is she working this hard?
She doesn't need to, like she has so much support,
she has a fiance or whatever. I was like, are
you okay? Like what, I'm the first one here, I'm
(23:43):
the last one to leave. Why are you judging me? Like?
I guess my question is like, is it other stylists?
Is there still that pettiness? Is there still that competition?
I don't think there's that much anymore.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
But I think, like my biggest issue is not doubting
whether I'll get it done, or whether I'll get it
done well, or whether I will be able to serve somebody.
Because I've put in the ten thousand hours. I really
know what I'm doing at this point. My problem is
that I'm still a human and so that my feelings
(24:17):
get hurt all the fucking way. And so it's not
because I mean, you certainly you hear things and people
have opinions, and not everybody will like what you do.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
You're not going to be.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Everybody's of course, especially in this.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Especially in this and I am generally okay.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
With that, but I think the hardest part is just like, look,
if you work in this business with people, like, there's
going to be a lot of opinions, and not all
of them are going to be nice.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
So I try to you know, when do I have
some tormaline here?
Speaker 3 (24:49):
Probably I try to wear my armor, you know, but
I'm human and I get my feelings short, and I
find that to be problematic, and I try to, you know,
heart forward down and keep doing the work in a
way that feels like it's a service.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
So you're you're never going to please everyone and be thankful.
You live in a world of cancel culture where people
don't speak badly really as much anymore about people. Where
ten years ago, people who knew nothing about fashion could
not even dress themselves, were sitting there attacking these beautiful
(25:28):
talented artists and being like what were they thinking?
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Blah blah blah the world best?
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Are you okay? And I think I'm hearing.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
How I want to start asking people that are you okay?
I mean I feel like that's a good question when somebody.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
Is not.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Are you on? Well? Like what like I don't get it,
Like you crazy and you're telling me that this, Like
do you or whatever that was customer like, it's this
most stunning thing I've ever seen. Who do you think
you are?
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Like right, right, it's funny, and that's funny.
Speaker 3 (26:08):
It's important to have your I think, look, if you're
aware of what matters, it's easy to like step back
into yes.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
But in the moment, it hurts.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
And also I think more importantly, even if it doesn't
hurt you or or the stylist or whoever, it hurts
the artist. Even if they say it doesn't hurt, it
does hurt. It hurts, totally, hurts.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
Totally because.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
I have I think that that's harder to deal with
than like the process, because I always know, as you know,
you've said this before that you told me show like
you were having brain surgery or something. But it's not
so like if you're having a problem at a shoot
or in a fitting, like you can always solve that.
Speaker 2 (26:54):
People.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
I heard from my agent, and I find this to
be so fascinating, like that, you know, we'll call and
they complain about this person or that person around the
people and they're saying like, well, it's so hard, and
so I would never do that. I never complain. I
never I'm just like, let's let's do this. Let's solve it,
because like, why is somebody hiring you to do this
(27:18):
service for that, like get a different job if you
don't want to solve it.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
Yeah, but I do. But here's the thing that I'm
going to say. And I posted this recently on my
social and I couldn't believe the reaction to it. And
I think because historically when I was growing up, it
was always sort of like, oh my god, don't have
a woman do that. It'll be so emotional. Oh my god,
(27:45):
it'll be she will just like get hurt too easily,
or she will care too much or like or like
she'll just bring too much emotion and sensitivity to the table.
And I sit here today and I'm like, Wow, what
a fucking superpower that we have that we do bring
our emotion to it. And I would think that, you know,
(28:08):
for what you just said, like the biggest challenge is
being hurt. That was absolutely, by far and away, the
biggest challenge for me was how hurt I got by
people that worked with me, by people I work, you know,
people external people, by you know, agents that crushed me
and still owe me money today, Like you know, a
constant heartbreak in that stuff. And Roger, you know, would
(28:31):
be like, take the high road, take the high road.
I'm like, oh, like that is actually the hardest challenge
that I've ever faced in any business that I've done. Truthfully,
it was taking the high road still is, and it's
something I'm trying to teach my kids, and in all fairness,
when I teach my kids, as I say, listen, this
is something mommy has struggled with forever because it is
(28:52):
the harder thing to do taking the high road, to take.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
The high road in to also, like, I think that
in combination with just trying to step back and we
realize that people, well people show you who they are.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Yes, you know, you have to believe it. You have
to believe it.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
And I think that that lesson is really hard to
and we look, we learn that again and again because
you put the hard out there, like thanks don't always
work out the way you want.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
No, they really don't. But but I do think that
I'm I honestly love what you're doing. I love the
women that you work with, you know, I love how
much you love what you're doing.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
What's it's like, it's it's again, it's it's of service.
And also the women that I work with, they're not
just about like going out there and wearing a pretty
brothe right and like looking great. Like yeah, so those
things are happening, and that's part of it. But they
are out there, like in the most purpose driven way,
(29:54):
trying to change the world through their art and through
their sentiments and how they engage with their fans. You know,
I feel like, f yes, like that's that's why we're here.
And so like using your platform in that way, that's
what's exciting to me. And so in terms of like
taking that to another level, that's exactly what I'm doing.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
I'm working on a book call after This about that
actually that we're selling next month. The idea is my
book is.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
That I want I want to, like basically what Marie
Kondo was able to do with organization, I want to
do that for style and I want to like us
to have a system to use what we wear to
step into our best self every day. So like, what's
what's your system? What can you return to because some
of us, most of us, wake up most days maybe
(30:47):
not feeling like the best or perfect version of yourself.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
So it's like this strange combination of like metaphysical and.
Speaker 4 (30:54):
Physical practical guide because I also hadn't really seen a
style idea that was about aligning your entire life and
like how you could better do that.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
By changing your relationship to what you were so working
on that.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
I listen, I've always stood by find your uniform. Find
your uniform, and what is that uniform?
Speaker 3 (31:16):
You will be interviewed for the book rich you can
talk about that you're the that's that that is an
element of course of practical style if you because it's
that's also the confidence thing too, write if you if
you don't know what works for you, like once you
(31:37):
know that, then you can take risks and.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
Do the But I think it's just about making it
easier for everybody because it's scary for most people, the
full process.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
And it's vulnerable.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
And like if if that's like if all these other
things are going on in the world, like we don't
have to name the walk the world is very person.
Can't you start using like make it so your wardrobe
works for you better, so that you can already start
feeling and living as the person you want to be,
Like I give it a pressure manifestation.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
You're also probably too young. But did you watch the
Jetsons ever?
Speaker 3 (32:17):
Oh my god, do you know what I was thinking
of this recently?
Speaker 2 (32:21):
I did as I could, but I can't.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Like, okay, so you need to google Jetsons because if
you look at Judy and Jane Jetson, they used to
press a button and their clothes would come around and
just get being dressed. And when I was little. When
I was little, I would just sit every morning, every
Saturday and Sunday morning my sister and I My sister
(32:46):
had no interest in it, but I was like, oh
my god, if I could be Judy Jetson and I
could just snap my fingers or press a button and
then it would get dressed, and I could say what
I felt like wearing, and like, I just that's what
I was manifested. And then later on I wanted to
be elsa clench and then you know.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
Oh my god, I need to rewatch it. That's hilarious.
I feel like that probably is the future.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
Well it is, it actually is. I think we're weirdly
like not that much. That's far away from that actually happening.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
And I bet you Dubai they probably do. But let's
go talk to Dubai. When you do this, I'm done
with that. I think people want want, they're like the
logistics of their lives to be easier so they can
spend more time like living of especially with the world
thing as complicated as it is. So Jadi Johson, it
(33:38):
is I that could be another chapter.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
I love and adore you. I love knowing you, I
love watching you, I love being friends with you, I
love supporting you. And I'm excited to see you out here.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
I'm so excited.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
And I wish everybody could see what you're wearing because
you look very fabulous.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
Oh my god, not at all.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
I'm like, I'm just these are your necklaces? Pretty? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (34:04):
Thank you, Brian, Yeah yeah, well this one is Devin
Woodhill and this one is Briany.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Oh my god, it's so good. I can't wait to
see you. We're going to sen I'm excited. Thank you
very much.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Enjoy and I'll see you. So I'll see you very soon. Absolutely,
thank you so much. To my very sweet, brilliant friend
Aaron Walsh, were coming unclimbing in heels today. I am
so impressed by her vulnerability, her work, ethic and just
her overall sort of humility and graciousness about being so
(34:40):
lucky to do what she loves and really just be
great at it and love it so much along the way,
and still being an incredibly hands on mom to three.
So thanks for listening and I will see you all
next week. Wow.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
From the front of the Potic protected a policing from
public polic
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