March 14, 2025 • 43 mins
This week, Rachel Zoe is joined by the incredible friend duo that is Kadi Lee and Myka Harris. These talented women are behind the hair care and hair wellness brand, Highbrow Hippie. After working with some of Hollywood’s biggest stars, Kadi and Myka launched Highbrow Hippie as a blog sharing beauty and wellness tips which evolved into an atelier salon. They recently launched incredible products that support hair loss and hair health and more products are on the horizon! Don't miss this fun episode!
Highbrow Hippie Haircare & Wellness is extending a special discount code to the Climbing in Heels listeners! Shop the Highbrow Hippie Haircare & Wellness product line on www.highbrowhippie.com using code HEELS15 for a 15% off discount. Offer is valid through May 31st , 2025.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi everyone, I'm Rachel Zoe and you're listening to Climbing
in Heels for your weekly dose of glamour, inspiration and fun. Okay,
today I'm joined by the incredible friend duo and talented
women behind the haircare and hair wellness brand Highbrow Hippie.
After working with some of Hollywood's biggest stars, Katie Lee
(00:21):
and Micah Harris launched Hibro Hippie as a blog sharing
beauty and wellness tips, which evolved into an attilie salon
and now incredible products that support hair loss and hair health.
These incredible women have such a clear vision for their
brand and their method of working quietly is fascinating and inspiring.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
So let's get right into it.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
I'm very excited to talk to you. I've known of
you for many many years. I know many of the
extraordinary women that you work with. But I first want
to go back because Climbing in Heels is really about
celebrating and talking about the journey and also similar to
(01:03):
a seat at the table dinners, it's about talking about
how hard it is for us as women in general
to make it in anything. Let alone have a dream.
I want to go back a little bit too, like,
how did you even find each other?
Speaker 2 (01:20):
How are you? How does this even happen?
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Because you know, I think you've probably lived and worked
long enough to know that, you know, partnerships, especially with friends,
it doesn't always work right, and this is clearly working.
So I want to talk a little bit about how
it started and what happened.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
So we met almost thirty years ago in college, and
we were both working in fashion at BCBG really and
where Atlanta, Georgia. We are both students at Spelman College.
Micah was getting ready to leave for Paris to go
(02:01):
to Parsons for her grad degree, and I was a freshman,
and yeah, it was our after school job and it
was a good one, and I don't know, we just
kind of fell into lockstep pretty quickly. That was the
first meeting, and then there were a few years in
between where I was still in school, Micah was in
(02:25):
school but at Parses in Paris, and then we both
ended up in New York City and I was working
at Frederick FACAI and at that point Micah ironically was
working for DVF of all people, who was now a
client wow, and then working for her the world's first
(02:47):
like trend forecasters.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
Yeah, a beauty futurologist. So I was working with her
trend forecasting on the beauty front.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Yeah. So then one day, like two thousand and one, and.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
It would have been two thousand and one because it
was yeah for nine eleven.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
That's how we'll always know two thousand and one. Yeah, Aaron,
I was going to Diane's studio And is.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Not funny like such, you know, passing ships, but it
was a true New York story where we were both
on Madison Avenue. We walked right into each other, like
actually bumped into each other. Yeah. Yeah, actually.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
Looked right into each other, and then discovered that we
lived around the corner from one another in Brooklyn, and
we went to like have dinner at our little local
neighborhood spot, and then that was it. We were just
kind of off to the races, like in.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Your twenties, and you were like just happen to be
really bumped into each other.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
That's so wide And I never walked by the way.
I was one of those like Uji, like twenty one
year olds who spent every dime that I made at
the salon on like car services back to Brooklyn.
Speaker 5 (04:00):
Yeah, of course, yeah, by the way, I love that
about you. I see you by the way, and I
was a complete opposite. I'm like on the subway, you know,
going back to Brooklyn. But it's like our highbrow hippie
Don't you.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Feel like Venice is brooklyn Ish?
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Not literally, but just like I feel like people who
live in Venice, if they moved to New York might
live in Brooklyn and vice versa.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
I mean, listen, there's definitely through lines, and there's a
reason why we've both lived here for sure. Yeah, you know,
it has a bit more of just the freedom to it,
and even though it's changed a lot in the past
few years, it still has a very neighborly quality. Venice
is cool. So you're in Brooklyn, what you come out here?
When do you come here? Well?
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Probably what happened.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Between Brooklyn and here, I mean a lot happened. Mica
got married and moved to Europe. Yeah, got it in
the system. Yeah, I moved to la about three years
during the time that you were in Europe. Because I
will go back and forth. And then once Micah was
(05:10):
separated and back in Atlanta, we I don't know, we
just would like talk about what what if we just
started this like blog and one of Micah's boyfriends used
to call her a bourgeois bohemian and we were like, well,
we can't call it that because like Americans will butcher
(05:32):
the name. Yeah, I love the word highbrow. And then
Michah just said the word hippie and the alliteration was working,
and we yeah, that's it, and that's her blog ready
to go. I love it.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
So you just started blogging and that was what like
two thousand and h twelve, eleven twelve where it was
where it was called a blog.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Yeah, right, we have blog. We have this list that
we made and I looked at it the other day,
a manifesting list and what hybrow hippie could be, and
it was like, one day we're going to have a
brick and mortar. Then we're going to have a coffee
table book, then we're going to have a product line.
I mean, we literally wrote every single thing down before
we even launch the blog, and a lot of those
(06:14):
things today are true.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Wow, isn't not wild, like because you don't even remember
doing that sometimes, you know. And two other female founders
that have a clothing line told me when I met
her in COVID because we were both in Malibu and
she said, I manifested you, and I said, what do
you mean? She's like fashion obsessed and she used to
(06:37):
write this list of people that she knew were going
to be in her life at some point.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
And I never believed in that.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
And I not that I didn't believe in it, but
like I'm a little I'm scared to put those things
down because if you don't achieve them, then I feel
like a failure. Right So so, but it's interesting with
you guys, because it's almost like everything kept bringing you
back right together. And then I feel like the fact
(07:06):
that you had the same shared dreams, the fact that
you kind of lived your separate lives and then together
lives right Because you guys, don't seem the type to
me from the little I know you to put yourselves
out there in a very public manner, a very loud manner,
or a very soliciting manner.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
I find you to be quite the opposite.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
So clearly it's your talent that actually got you where
you are because you do touch and style obviously hundreds
and maybe thousands of peads and hair and people, but
like you and arguably do some of the biggest names
in the world and who have access to anyone in
(07:52):
the business. So despite how nice, despite how professional, despite
how whatever, you're clearly both extremely talent, and so I
want to sort of talk about that, because it's very
hard to launch a brand and product and brick and
mortar and all the things while still maintaining the integrity
(08:15):
of the brand.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Right, So I talk about that.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
The talent is obviously what's speaking over over everything else.
So I want to talk like how you sort of
balance the still touching the peop and doing what you
do to still keep the other parts of it going strong,
because it's the other parts of it that is the
actual tangible business, right And coming up as a stylist.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
And then launching a brand and product.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
I know how hard it is, I know how scary
it is, but I do know you get to that
inflection point where you're like, what I do is providing
a service. What I do is dictated by how hard
I work, Right, Like every minute I work.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Is how much I make more or less.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
And at some point you say, what happens if you
need to have something that can live on beyond.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
You or outside of you?
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Right, So at what point did you guys decide to say, Okay,
let's do some of these things that we've dreamed about,
talked about because it's scary.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
It is. I'm going to say something really quickly, Micah.
Then I want you to build on it because you
asked a few questions. One point that you made is
that we do work really hard, and we work in
silence and we've never felt which is rare.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
Yeah, it's like we laugh because we feel as though,
you know, people are like, whoa surprise sometimes when we
do things and it's like.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
We've been here, We've been here here, We've.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Been doing this and keep going overnight success of twenty
years of work.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
Exactly, you know, like we are two very grown women.
But so so you first touch on the service point
and as you know, like you cannot maintain a career
of twenty five years in this industry with the clients
that I've a mass being a colorist by not being excellent.
(10:24):
And there are a few things that always drive that,
Like you know, Mike and I have never been one
to kind of bat around a subject. And the bottom
line is, as a black woman in the beauty industry,
I did not have a choice but to be excellent
did I couldn't fall back on anything. It wasn't about
my like winning personality, although you know, catch me on
(10:47):
the right day, I could be pretty funny. But like
usually it's it all comes down to am I doing
good work? So while I was focused on really just
being really excellent at my and I'm always known as
the hardest worker. I will outwork anyone. I love it.
You know, I'm a Leo and I'm a Jamaican immigrant,
(11:09):
so like it's like put any stereotype on me with
that and like I'm going to do it. What you
sound like, Oh, we both have virgo tendencies. Actually you
should see the level of attention. I feel it like
Mark's paper is not in the stack. Were very meticulous.
They don't see what we see, you know. I mean
(11:30):
we serve every single beverage at Hybrid Hippie with a press, linen, napkin.
It's it's to the next level. It's it's kind of
disturbing sometimes. But going back to how it happened, you know,
while I was busy building very slowly, you know, Micah
was also in Atlanta owning a company in the beauty space.
(11:52):
She owned like Atlanta's first natural waxing and nail studio,
so she had some experience on the back end of
back running a business and running it well. I knew
a obviously, everything changed when Julia Roberts became my client.
It she put a level of trust in me that
really took my confidence to the next level. And once
(12:17):
that happened, and we knew that we could create a
space where women who were discerning and who really craved
peace and privacy could go, we knew that we could
put our heads together not only create a physical space
that was like everything we ever dreamed of, but we
(12:38):
could also translate that into a product that people could
take home as well. It's hard.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
By the way, Julia's unbeliever. I think it's like she's magic.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
She's actual magic and starting human beings. Ever, you know,
both her and Serge Vermont, who's my mentor. I love him,
I mean, I mean I love that man. I love him.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
I love him like when I see him, it is.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Like it's love of a love, a warmth.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
He is one of the greatest of all time as
not just talent, but just as a life, yeah, a
human And it makes sense all of it that Julia chooses.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
All of you.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Yeah. I mean, I'm like the most junior person kind
of in the long term squad, and I've been around
for over fifteen years with her, so she really she
chooses her family. We choose her right back. Serge and
Julia have been such big supporters of Micah and I.
She was the very first person to ever step into
(13:43):
hybrid hybie the physical space. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
By the way, if you're going to dream a dream
of who's ever going to walk into your space, I'm
pretty sure Julia Roberts is number one.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Yeah. And is there any more iconic hair that exists
her style?
Speaker 2 (13:57):
By the way, I was going to say, it's the hair, it's.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Smile, it's her, it's all the things.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
And she chose you.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
That's the thing. That's my point. It's like your success
is for a reason. And I always say the people
that stand out you can get somewhere. You can have
an introduction, you can have help, you can have all
the things, but the talent ultimately is the only thing that.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Will keep you there.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Yeah, you get there, you can get there.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
One thing I wanted to add in terms of building
this sustainable brand, I think that one thing that has
always worked for us, and it's kind of overused, but
this idea of being authentic, like everything that we're doing,
that we're putting out, that we're discussing, that we are
trying to share with our clients and our community is
(14:48):
authentically what we would want for ourselves, you know, and
so we're viewing it through that lens often, like, you know,
if we were on the other side of this, what
would work for us? And sometimes, you know, we're doing
things and people are like, oh, I don't really know
about that, but eventually it catches up, you know, like
(15:08):
what we might be seen is doing something that's slightly.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
Against the grain. You know. Katie kind of touched on
this earlier. It's like she didn't really have a choice.
Speaker 4 (15:17):
You know. It's like you're this black woman, You're showing
up in this way, and so you have to have
the hard conversation. You have to acknowledge certain things. So
we've always been like very outspoken around politics and things
that were happening in our world as a startup brand,
you know, because it was very authentic to us. And
now of course everyone's you know, discusses this idea of
(15:39):
you know, who are you as a brand, like authentically,
are you expressing yourself? And you know we've always done
that and we'll continue to be that way.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
I think that the consumer or client, I think they
see authenticity, they know it that I think they're given
credit for.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
You know.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
Yeah, love for you to talk about sort of what
is most exciting to you, like in terms of what
you're doing now, like in terms of product, in terms
of the space, are you planning on opening more?
Speaker 3 (16:12):
Oh god? So all right? So the best thing and
the hardest and always like where we are. We love
a small team, We love a small space. About who
is their right mind would take on more real estate
right now? You know it's not worth it. But I
(16:33):
will say what sometimes brands that launch a product, what
they do is they launched a product and then they
try to find the community afterwards around that product. I
think what really is working for us and has always worked,
is that we had the community first, and then we
leaned on them before we launched one product, before we
(16:55):
designed any packaging. Mica had this idea, We did this
huge survey, and we really took the downtime that we
had during COVID like seriously and while we were scrambling
to make sure that the attiliate could even stay open.
We got this survey up and running, and we asked
our clients everything about their beauty closet. What are you
(17:19):
buying right now? Commus are you spending? What are your
top three items, what are your top five items, what
are your top ten items? And we took that information
and took their concerns and that was our starting point
for developing our product line. So we have this community
of women that it's like the best secret, you know
(17:40):
that they are the most discerning. They want us to succeed,
but they also want us to make things that they
can use.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Sure, and how big is the range now of products.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
We just launched with two two more coming out in
a few months.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
I think you roll out son, study.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
Slow and study, but we by the end end of
next year will have about eight in.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
The art I love and it's and it's always neat
what kind of affects you and what doesn't like? What
gives you? What makes it hard to go to sleep?
Are you do you have fears about doing this? It's
because just being an entrepreneur is very different than being
an artist.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Yeah, I mean everybody has fears I certainly do. And
you know, I'm in the throes of perimenopause.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Mike is, so it's so fun.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Yeah. So anxiety and lack of sleep and worry at
night is just part of the game. But I mean,
of course you have fears that listen, I worry, are
we late? You know? But then if we're late, just
do it better. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe I don't
have fears. I feel like we have this army of
(18:49):
women behind us that, like always, I look to them
and I just know it's going to be okay. I
know that one thing that Mike and I and I
feel like I'm talking too much. I'm gonna shut up
real soon, Mica.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
But one thing that her and I something tells me,
you guys would cut each other off if you needed to.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Yeah, we would.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Yeah. But one thing that I think is important that
a lot of people don't talk about as entrepreneurs is
that we've always had the same endgame, and we always
knew that in a few years. You know, we do
want to sell the company, we want to exit, We
want to do different things with our lives. We want
to have different chapters in our lives. And I think
(19:29):
once you know where you're going. It's easy to just
be in the present because then you know what you're
working towards. Like one person said to us, like, I mean,
how could you be thinking ahead? Like don't you want
to hold on to it forever? And we're both like, no,
we sure don't.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
It's like we want to build something great, you know,
and pass it off to someone else, because I think
that's the fun. I mean, for me, the fun is
in the building, right, Like having this thing that.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
You build, you create, and then you iterate and you.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
Build something else, you create that and at some point,
you know, you hand it off to somebody else.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
To continue continue doing that. Are they going to do
it the way that you would do it? No, But
at that point who cares? Who cares? That's okay because
it's different.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
I'm a huge believer in eight Not for everybody, but
I'm a huge believer in building something to the point
where you have maxed out what you can do for it,
and then it's time for it to fly with somebody else,
you know, spread the way, move and move on, you know.
And I think that's you know, at least for me,
I think that's just a great It's like it's kind of.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
Making peace with like exactly what you said.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
It's like creating something and growing it and then at
some point you wake up and go, it's like time to.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Fly with somebody else now, you know.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
And it doesn't always happen, and it's not necessarily the
dream for it for everybody.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
You know.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
I've had amazing founders on the pod that are just like, no, no, no,
I have no egxit plan. That's never my thing. And
then people are like, I'm exiting it in two years
from now. I'm like, Jesus, yeah, you guys, I'm so
impressed with you. I think surrounding yourself with people like
the Emigreeds of the world, even though there's only one
Emmigreed by the way, and like Diane from First and Burn,
(21:18):
I think these are women that I think we need
to get inspired by women like this regularly and surround
ourselves with women like who do quite frankly.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Give you a you know, have you.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Guys ever had any challenges like working together? Because as
I said of the best friend thing, the partner thing,
it doesn't always work, but when it does, it's like
the perfect magic, right, And so what do you think
makes it work so well with you guys. And have
you ever had a moment where you felt like you
(21:52):
couldn't agree on where you wanted to take something?
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Or are you always so InSync?
Speaker 3 (21:56):
Oh? No, no, no, we're human, of course we're too.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Very I think it's great. I think it's healthy.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Yeah, very different individuals, you know, And I think because
we have the same end goal, we're always going to
be on the same page. And you know, like that
thing where someone if someone else talks about your family,
you're fighting them, but like you know, you all could
fight like internally, like nobody can come for Mica, nobody
(22:25):
can come for Katie. But when it comes two of us,
we're both LEO women. It is gnarly sometimes, I don't know,
even when you know, I'm sure I drive her nuts
and even when she's driving me nuts, it's just kind
of like we retreat to our corners and you just
keep it moving, you know, because the world is against
(22:46):
black women enough. At the end of the day, we're
never going to throw each other under the bus. Like
we have different strengths, we try to go back to
highlight those strengths. But you know, we're not as close
as friends anymore. But I don't think that is necessarily
a bad thing. I think it makes us better like
business partners. I think she needs different things out of friendships.
(23:10):
You know, she's a mom and I'm not, and I
need different things out of friendships like that support like
my phase in life. I don't know. I think like
having the shared history helps because there's trust there, like
I'm not going to let somebody else come in and
you know, know half the things about my life that
Mica does and vice versa, but just very different people
(23:33):
to go.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
One thing I want to touch on is you mentioned perimenopause,
and I feel like menopause is this thing where like
it's the weirdest thing because no one talked about it
for like one hundred years, and now I feel like
there isn't like a room you walk into where women
aren't talking about it. And thankfully, I think, you know,
very big public women are talking about it, writing books
(23:56):
about it, and from Halle Berry, Naomi Watts goes on
Gwyneth like you know everyone, And I think I want
to talk about that because I think something that I
imagine is a huge conversation in your in your salon
is hair loss because I feel like that's I mean,
(24:16):
I must hear a friend or a dinner or an
event or literally anything there's someone I know or don't
know that's, oh my god, my hair's flying out from
the age of thirty.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Eight to fifty five.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Like it's just like, oh my god, my hair used
to be this or I know that that's some of
the focus of the product, But like, tell me how
that impacts you and how often you hear this in
the room, because I imagine it's daily.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
I mean it's it's hourly, hourly. Yeah, So what interest
come being is that you know, I'm in my twenty
fifth year of being a hair colorist, and a lot
of the clients that I started with when I was
in my twenties are now going through the same phase
of life that Mike and I are. If they're not
going through perimenopause, they're going through postpartum, and if going
(25:08):
through that, then they're dealing with maybe an illness or
some sort of chronic condition. And again, going back to
that survey that we took, there was not one person
that did not want help with their hair health and
their hair loss, and so we knew that there was
absolutely no freaking way we were going to launch with
a shampoo and conditioner R. Nobody talk about saturated, nobody
(25:31):
wants it, nobody needs it, and nobody cares. Nobody cares lass.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
It's literally putting liquid gold on your head to grow
your hair.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Yeah, that's the only way it's going to stand out
at there.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
Yeah. So our poor kevist and formulators, I mean we
were like, Okay, that's great, what else? What else? And
we would just push it and like listen, before it
also became trendy, Micah was taking all sorts of herbs
and things. I mean, it became clear that, like a supplement,
it was going to be one of the first go tos,
(26:03):
but we had to It also was clear that we
had to have some sort of through line with the
internal and the external because they both were affecting hair
health and hair loss. That's where our strength also came in.
Micah really took the lead with the supplement. I took
the lead with the serum. We got to both kind
of put it together, and that's where our next two
(26:23):
releases are both both topical and internal as well. Tea
that has some of the same properties as the supplement
out with one of probably the best hair mask I've
ever used in my whole career. And that is saying
a lot. So again, having our clients lead the charge
and what are the most important things that they're needing
(26:45):
right now. So yeah, I just think no one's really
approaching it the way that we are, Like we're not,
you know, pick a brand like you know where it's
not shampoo, conditioner, hair spray, like sure, Like that doesn't
even make sense to us. It's not how we run
the business on a day to day basis. People come
(27:06):
in there really a obviously for excellent color and styling,
but really to have like we're kind of known to
like be the fixers, and you know that's how God,
that's how I got Emma and going off and DVF
and all of these women. And we look at these
(27:26):
women walking through our doors who cannot be any more
picky and there that's my point.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Yeah, trust you guys are doing something very right over there.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Taking hormones out of it.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
I know that's a bold statement because you can't really
take hormones out of anything.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
So I don't really mean it that way.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
I just mean hair one oh one, you know, as
someone who is not adventurous with hair. I mean I
literally am like sharing the seventies right now, like my hair.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
I don't cut it.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
I don't like it's my secure bank, it right, So
and I think for many women it is and had
I've had Unfortunately many friends go through cancer, and it's
obviously I would say the thing that hurts most is
when they lose hair, and because they don't feel like
women anymore, they feel that they look in the mirror
at that point and go, now, I have cancer, right,
(28:19):
And I went through this with one of my very
best friends.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
And it's like hard. I get emotional, and I say.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
I think hair is one of the most important things
to us as women, and I think that when we
talk about how do we preserve that, how do we
why is everyone losing their hair?
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Like meaning, I know it's hormonal.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
I know it's all the shifts and all the things, right,
but I also know one of my best friend's moms
is seventy five with the most gorgeous, full head of
hair you've ever seen, and it's like Rapunzel. I mean,
it's gorgeous. So I do want to understand. I guess
from where you are, is it the color?
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Is it bad? Colorists.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
Is it just like, what is it that is killing
the hair or is it all of it? I know
that's a very loaded question, but I think for my listeners,
I want to share what young people and then just
going all the way up can do to sort of
preserve the health of their hair.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
Start with the external stuff that I'm going to have
Mica takeover on one some of the other factors that
are contributing listen from the beginning. I've never been the
colorists that wanted to like fry anybody's hair, like you
cannot reverse some of that. And my kind of signature
is like, how can we make this color the best
(29:40):
version of what your hair really wants to do. And
obviously there are some exceptions to the rule, like I
have to take Julia from blonde to red to you know,
all the things for her different roles. But for the
most part, people have always come to us to correct
bad color, to get them on like a healthy tre
(30:00):
with a good relationship with hair color. And it seems
counter you know, productive, because you know, you want people
coming back often so you can have their money, but like,
really do you because if your hair is healthy and
then they're stuck with you for like decades instead of
then leaving you after a couple of years because you've
damaged it. You're making more return that way. So I've
(30:23):
always put my I've always banked my career on that
and been very happy with it. It may kind of
pigeonhole me as maybe the boring one, but I can
tell you I can fix anything because and then once
it's fixed, they never want to leave, you know.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
Will you say no if someone says I'm I want
to go platinum, right and you look at their hair
and you go.
Speaker 3 (30:47):
That's a bad idea. That's a bad idea. Your hair
is also a very different animal when you're in your twenties, thirties,
forties on nons and everything. Yeah, exactly. So I'll tell
them like, Okay, you really want to try it. The
hair age is just like we do. So if you
really want to try it, and I think the hair
can handle it, and they're good with doing a good
(31:08):
shop afterwards. As far as the other factors of hair loss,
I'll have Micah speak to that. Well.
Speaker 4 (31:14):
When you were talking about it, I was thinking about
one of the major contributors to this is stress too.
Like I mean, think about the society and the culture
that we're living in, Like we're constantly engaged, We're constantly
being fed horrific news of things that are happening not
only in our backyard but around the world, and social media,
(31:38):
we're ingesting all of these things and comparing ourselves to
other people all the time.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
So I think a big part.
Speaker 4 (31:44):
Of it is the stress, you know, and what that
stress does throughout our body. You know, it creates inflammation.
It throws your adrenals into overdrive, and that has a
compounding effect on the rest of your body, and it
shows up in your hair, primarily hair.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
And again, so it's a big contributor.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
And when we started our research, we found out that
over seventy five percent of women will experience hair loss
in their lifetime.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Yeah, that is mental.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
It's so mental.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
It's mental, and that needs to be said louder.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Yeah, because my first experience was after my first son,
and then it got really, really thick, and then after
my second son.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
It just was different. Yeah, it just was different. Yeah,
And I just I'm like, God, you guys really take everything,
don't you. But our hearts, our hair. They don't talk
about us loud enough. And one thing that we've never
had a problem with is talking. You know, we'll talk
about anything and everything. We'll chat about it. If it's taboo,
(32:45):
even better, we're like, let's talk about it more, you know.
And hair loss is one of those things. And our
clients seeing that we actually were really working towards the solution,
they were like, we'll trust you guys. You know, you
haven't led us wrong so far. So, like Micah was saying,
this constant bombardment of connection with so much technology as well,
(33:08):
I mean he I haven't seen a person that is
as technology challenge is like she will use her phone
on purpose.
Speaker 4 (33:15):
I lost my phone on Saturday. I still don't have
a new phone yet. I lost it at the Ballue
Museum downtown and somebody's like, aren't you freaking out? And
I'm like, well, not really, because I can text from
my computer and I've been working in front of my computer.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
So I think this afternoon I'll go get a new one.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
Yeah, And then like social media's wild. I'm on the
Hybro hippie account, but I don't have a personal one
because like I don't need anymore, you know.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
I didn't have to have it for my brand. I
don't think I would.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
Have it at all. Yeah, you know much.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
There's there's a way that your brain can relax when
you don't feel that you.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
Have to be.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Something out in responsive or if they know, but in
business with a brand, as you know, you have to
be right. You have to just figure out how you
want to play the game. You don't have to play
it the same as everyone else, but you do have
to be in it.
Speaker 4 (34:08):
I think we've worked recently and over the years, we've
had a lot of ups and downs with our business.
And we opened eight months to the day before COVID
and had to shut down. We were one of the
first ones that had to close and the last businesses
that were allowed to open. So we've done a lot
of this and we didn't even touch on prior to this,
(34:29):
things like our relationship with an old investor that went south.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
I mean, that's a whole nother episode.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
But I've been there.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
We've all been there, and I can tell you right
now every single woman at that table at Emma's house
has been there.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
Yeah, at least months. It was devastating, and we wasted
about seven years trying to get like hiro hippie. The
first iteration of it off the ground and we had
to start over from scratch.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
Okay, I want to talk about that for a second.
I'm not going to let you stay. I'm not going
to let you pass over that, because the whole intention
of Climbing and Heels is talking about that. And every
woman that I've had on here, every single one has
said the same thing. It's like, you know this brand
because this is the brand that's winning. But there was
so many fails before this that you never heard about.
(35:18):
That I cried in my kitchen, that I cried in
my closet, that I lost everything that I you know,
and the stories are endless and they're always going to
be and I think at the end of the day,
what goes public typically is the win, right. You know,
some people fall harder than others, some people that hurts
(35:39):
more than others.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Seven years is a lot is a lot.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
I mean, it's a lot, and you're never going to
forget it, and you learned from it. But it's also
why you are where you are now. And so I
think it's sort of like in those moments, you just
have to I think trust the universe has some plan
that you just may not know about yet.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
And the way things worked out is that we were
able to gain one hundred percent control of the company.
So that means for a much more handsome exit when
we're ready to do so, and when it was time
to rebuild, the fact that we still had our same
mission and we just kept at it, that's when I
(36:22):
knew we were going to be okay. You know, we
both didn't falter. We were like, okay, we have to
do it in a different way. We did it in
a smaller footprint. It ended up being better, less overhead, Like,
we did it in a smaller space, but it was
one that we could really control. And then if we
had opened up the original footprint that we planned on
(36:44):
then getting shut down with COVID, we would have been
dead in the water, Yeah, because our overhead would have
been so high. I still think of the day we
found out that that deal went south, and I get
a feeling, a pit in my stomach that to this
day stops me in my tracks. I do know that feeling,
and more people know that feeling than you know. Yeah,
(37:06):
And I did want to say, because we've you know,
touched on the Emma's and the Julia's and Gwynnis and
all the people that you know are well known that
are in our corner. You know, my very first client
was this woman named Suzanne Nora Johnson and she's still
my client today. And Suzanne Nora was the first female
(37:28):
managing director of Goldman Sachs. And I used to shampoo
her hair as an assistant at Frederick Fakai. And she said,
when you get promoted, I'm going to become your client.
She said, I just like your hustle, I like the
way you work. Suzanne Nora Johnson has been there for
Mike and I in ways that are just it could
(37:49):
literally make me cry. She was just always there for us.
She's a woman that you know, few people may know
her name, but like she she's now the current chair
of the board at USC. She took over for Rick
Ruso Cash's but she's just this legend who she's always
(38:10):
treated us. It didn't matter if we were twenty two
or now in our late forties. Suzanne has always treated
us as smart, capable women. Whenever we really needed like
just the real deal, she would give it to us.
And she is now, you know, one of our investors,
(38:30):
as are many of our longtime clients. Those women and
there are many women like Suzanne. Our lead investor is
a client of mine who have had for twenty three years,
who nobody would know, and she is not rich or famous,
but she gave us a quarter of a million dollars
on the spot.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
You have to think about that because as someone who
is an investor, you know, there are moments where I
meet women that are so impressive in these moments and
I'm like, are you doo race, Like, are you because
you want to be part of yeah?
Speaker 2 (39:06):
Their orbit?
Speaker 3 (39:07):
Yeah, because you are a believer. And to me, I.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
Think especially I do think that's a little bit how
women invest. It's kind of like the same way we
approach anything in life right with our heart.
Speaker 3 (39:23):
Right.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
It's sort of like you feel it, you're connected to it,
you believe in it, because otherwise you can't do it.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:29):
Right. One of your biggest fans are a mutual friend,
Cleo Wade. She love you know, Cleo. I've only been
friends with her for a few years. Cleo blog multiple
investors to the table that ended up accounting for a
huge part of our raise herself. We've just had these
people show up for us in big ways, and not
(39:51):
all of them are big names, and I think it's
important for they don't need to make it, they don't
need to be they don't.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
Need to you know, anonymous. Yeah, it's just having that support.
It's just having that support. And I'll tell you this,
you know. And I think it's part of why Emma
started fifteen percent with a roar and started doing a
Seat at the Table dinners with Stephanie from Google, because
these are champions of women. But what I will say
(40:18):
is women don't just support and write checks to be cool.
And it doesn't matter how much money they have or
don't have. They invest. If they're believers, they invest if
they connect with it. And I've seen that over and
over because I've seen I've also seen women not be
able to get a check from a woman, you know.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
So I see that a lot.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
So it's not because you're a woman, it's not you know,
it's not for any of those reasons. It's because the
talent is there, because they're experiencing it, because they're living it,
and because they believe in it.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
And I am so excited to watch you guys grow.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
And timing is everything, guys, and everything happens for a reason.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
I believe that I've lived it, trust me, lived it.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
And there are those moments where you like sit in
your closet just crying by yourself and you're like, I can't,
I can't, I can't.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
I'm done. Like this is like I'm I'm exiting stage left.
Speaker 3 (41:16):
I can do.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
And then you know, and then you.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
Get that light and you get that client, and you
get that woman who's like, yeah, you're doing this and
this is how and this is why and these are
the people that are going to come join the room
and you know, and you get that and you don't
forget that, and you don't forget that, you know. So
I'm here for the ride. I'm here to watch you guys.
(41:41):
I'm going to come in and have you guys, you know,
transform me.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
I adore you both. You're so impressive.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
I'm so obsessed with Hybro Hippy and so is everybody,
and you know, I think we're really excited to for
everyone to be able to get a piece of Hybro Hippy.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
Now, thanks for being on.
Speaker 3 (42:00):
Thanks for having us.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
Thank you so much to Katie and Micah for coming
on the pod today. I have mad respect and admiration
for what they've built and what they have planned for
the future. The women famous and not known, just brilliant
women that continue to support them and help them grow
and live their brand just is a testament to the
(42:23):
talent and the authenticity of their brand. I mean you, guys,
Julia Roberts. It's like, I don't even there's another fifty
names that are the most famous in the world. But
let's just start and end with Julia and I just
want to say I learned a lot today. I got
very inspired today. I also love keeping it real. I
(42:44):
also love talking about the what feels like a failure
in the moment in order to move forward and be
exactly where you're meant to be. So thank you so
much for listening to Climbing and Heels. If you haven't already,
please subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the iheartapp,
or wherever you get your podcasts. You don't miss a
(43:05):
single episode this season, and be sure to follow me
on Instagram at at Rachel Zoe and the show at
Climbing Inhales pod for the latest episodes and updates.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
I will talk to you soon.
Hi everyone, I'm Rachel Zoe and you're listening to Climbing
in Heels for your weekly dose of glamour, inspiration and fun. Okay,
today I'm joined by the incredible friend duo and talented
women behind the haircare and hair wellness brand Highbrow Hippie.
After working with some of Hollywood's biggest stars, Katie Lee
(00:21):
and Micah Harris launched Hibro Hippie as a blog sharing
beauty and wellness tips, which evolved into an attilie salon
and now incredible products that support hair loss and hair health.
These incredible women have such a clear vision for their
brand and their method of working quietly is fascinating and inspiring.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
So let's get right into it.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
I'm very excited to talk to you. I've known of
you for many many years. I know many of the
extraordinary women that you work with. But I first want
to go back because Climbing in Heels is really about
celebrating and talking about the journey and also similar to
(01:03):
a seat at the table dinners, it's about talking about
how hard it is for us as women in general
to make it in anything. Let alone have a dream.
I want to go back a little bit too, like,
how did you even find each other?
Speaker 2 (01:20):
How are you? How does this even happen?
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Because you know, I think you've probably lived and worked
long enough to know that, you know, partnerships, especially with friends,
it doesn't always work right, and this is clearly working.
So I want to talk a little bit about how
it started and what happened.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
So we met almost thirty years ago in college, and
we were both working in fashion at BCBG really and
where Atlanta, Georgia. We are both students at Spelman College.
Micah was getting ready to leave for Paris to go
(02:01):
to Parsons for her grad degree, and I was a freshman,
and yeah, it was our after school job and it
was a good one, and I don't know, we just
kind of fell into lockstep pretty quickly. That was the
first meeting, and then there were a few years in
between where I was still in school, Micah was in
(02:25):
school but at Parses in Paris, and then we both
ended up in New York City and I was working
at Frederick FACAI and at that point Micah ironically was
working for DVF of all people, who was now a
client wow, and then working for her the world's first
(02:47):
like trend forecasters.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
Yeah, a beauty futurologist. So I was working with her
trend forecasting on the beauty front.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Yeah. So then one day, like two thousand and one, and.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
It would have been two thousand and one because it
was yeah for nine eleven.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
That's how we'll always know two thousand and one. Yeah, Aaron,
I was going to Diane's studio And is.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
Not funny like such, you know, passing ships, but it
was a true New York story where we were both
on Madison Avenue. We walked right into each other, like
actually bumped into each other. Yeah. Yeah, actually.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
Looked right into each other, and then discovered that we
lived around the corner from one another in Brooklyn, and
we went to like have dinner at our little local
neighborhood spot, and then that was it. We were just
kind of off to the races, like in.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Your twenties, and you were like just happen to be
really bumped into each other.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
That's so wide And I never walked by the way.
I was one of those like Uji, like twenty one
year olds who spent every dime that I made at
the salon on like car services back to Brooklyn.
Speaker 5 (04:00):
Yeah, of course, yeah, by the way, I love that
about you. I see you by the way, and I
was a complete opposite. I'm like on the subway, you know,
going back to Brooklyn. But it's like our highbrow hippie
Don't you.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Feel like Venice is brooklyn Ish?
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Not literally, but just like I feel like people who
live in Venice, if they moved to New York might
live in Brooklyn and vice versa.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
I mean, listen, there's definitely through lines, and there's a
reason why we've both lived here for sure. Yeah, you know,
it has a bit more of just the freedom to it,
and even though it's changed a lot in the past
few years, it still has a very neighborly quality. Venice
is cool. So you're in Brooklyn, what you come out here?
When do you come here? Well?
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Probably what happened.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Between Brooklyn and here, I mean a lot happened. Mica
got married and moved to Europe. Yeah, got it in
the system. Yeah, I moved to la about three years
during the time that you were in Europe. Because I
will go back and forth. And then once Micah was
(05:10):
separated and back in Atlanta, we I don't know, we
just would like talk about what what if we just
started this like blog and one of Micah's boyfriends used
to call her a bourgeois bohemian and we were like, well,
we can't call it that because like Americans will butcher
(05:32):
the name. Yeah, I love the word highbrow. And then
Michah just said the word hippie and the alliteration was working,
and we yeah, that's it, and that's her blog ready
to go. I love it.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
So you just started blogging and that was what like
two thousand and h twelve, eleven twelve where it was
where it was called a blog.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Yeah, right, we have blog. We have this list that
we made and I looked at it the other day,
a manifesting list and what hybrow hippie could be, and
it was like, one day we're going to have a
brick and mortar. Then we're going to have a coffee
table book, then we're going to have a product line.
I mean, we literally wrote every single thing down before
we even launch the blog, and a lot of those
(06:14):
things today are true.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Wow, isn't not wild, like because you don't even remember
doing that sometimes, you know. And two other female founders
that have a clothing line told me when I met
her in COVID because we were both in Malibu and
she said, I manifested you, and I said, what do
you mean? She's like fashion obsessed and she used to
(06:37):
write this list of people that she knew were going
to be in her life at some point.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
And I never believed in that.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
And I not that I didn't believe in it, but
like I'm a little I'm scared to put those things
down because if you don't achieve them, then I feel
like a failure. Right So so, but it's interesting with
you guys, because it's almost like everything kept bringing you
back right together. And then I feel like the fact
(07:06):
that you had the same shared dreams, the fact that
you kind of lived your separate lives and then together
lives right Because you guys, don't seem the type to
me from the little I know you to put yourselves
out there in a very public manner, a very loud manner,
or a very soliciting manner.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
I find you to be quite the opposite.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
So clearly it's your talent that actually got you where
you are because you do touch and style obviously hundreds
and maybe thousands of peads and hair and people, but
like you and arguably do some of the biggest names
in the world and who have access to anyone in
(07:52):
the business. So despite how nice, despite how professional, despite
how whatever, you're clearly both extremely talent, and so I
want to sort of talk about that, because it's very
hard to launch a brand and product and brick and
mortar and all the things while still maintaining the integrity
(08:15):
of the brand.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Right, So I talk about that.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
The talent is obviously what's speaking over over everything else.
So I want to talk like how you sort of
balance the still touching the peop and doing what you
do to still keep the other parts of it going strong,
because it's the other parts of it that is the
actual tangible business, right And coming up as a stylist.
Speaker 2 (08:45):
And then launching a brand and product.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
I know how hard it is, I know how scary
it is, but I do know you get to that
inflection point where you're like, what I do is providing
a service. What I do is dictated by how hard
I work, Right, Like every minute I work.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Is how much I make more or less.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
And at some point you say, what happens if you
need to have something that can live on beyond.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
You or outside of you?
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Right, So at what point did you guys decide to say, Okay,
let's do some of these things that we've dreamed about,
talked about because it's scary.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
It is. I'm going to say something really quickly, Micah.
Then I want you to build on it because you
asked a few questions. One point that you made is
that we do work really hard, and we work in
silence and we've never felt which is rare.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
Yeah, it's like we laugh because we feel as though,
you know, people are like, whoa surprise sometimes when we
do things and it's like.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
We've been here, We've been here here, We've.
Speaker 1 (09:58):
Been doing this and keep going overnight success of twenty
years of work.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
Exactly, you know, like we are two very grown women.
But so so you first touch on the service point
and as you know, like you cannot maintain a career
of twenty five years in this industry with the clients
that I've a mass being a colorist by not being excellent.
(10:24):
And there are a few things that always drive that,
Like you know, Mike and I have never been one
to kind of bat around a subject. And the bottom
line is, as a black woman in the beauty industry,
I did not have a choice but to be excellent
did I couldn't fall back on anything. It wasn't about
my like winning personality, although you know, catch me on
(10:47):
the right day, I could be pretty funny. But like
usually it's it all comes down to am I doing
good work? So while I was focused on really just
being really excellent at my and I'm always known as
the hardest worker. I will outwork anyone. I love it.
You know, I'm a Leo and I'm a Jamaican immigrant,
(11:09):
so like it's like put any stereotype on me with
that and like I'm going to do it. What you
sound like, Oh, we both have virgo tendencies. Actually you
should see the level of attention. I feel it like
Mark's paper is not in the stack. Were very meticulous.
They don't see what we see, you know. I mean
(11:30):
we serve every single beverage at Hybrid Hippie with a press, linen, napkin.
It's it's to the next level. It's it's kind of
disturbing sometimes. But going back to how it happened, you know,
while I was busy building very slowly, you know, Micah
was also in Atlanta owning a company in the beauty space.
(11:52):
She owned like Atlanta's first natural waxing and nail studio,
so she had some experience on the back end of
back running a business and running it well. I knew
a obviously, everything changed when Julia Roberts became my client.
It she put a level of trust in me that
really took my confidence to the next level. And once
(12:17):
that happened, and we knew that we could create a
space where women who were discerning and who really craved
peace and privacy could go, we knew that we could
put our heads together not only create a physical space
that was like everything we ever dreamed of, but we
(12:38):
could also translate that into a product that people could
take home as well. It's hard.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
By the way, Julia's unbeliever. I think it's like she's magic.
Speaker 3 (12:46):
She's actual magic and starting human beings. Ever, you know,
both her and Serge Vermont, who's my mentor. I love him,
I mean, I mean I love that man. I love him.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
I love him like when I see him, it is.
Speaker 3 (13:02):
Like it's love of a love, a warmth.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
He is one of the greatest of all time as
not just talent, but just as a life, yeah, a
human And it makes sense all of it that Julia chooses.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
All of you.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Yeah. I mean, I'm like the most junior person kind
of in the long term squad, and I've been around
for over fifteen years with her, so she really she
chooses her family. We choose her right back. Serge and
Julia have been such big supporters of Micah and I.
She was the very first person to ever step into
(13:43):
hybrid hybie the physical space. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
By the way, if you're going to dream a dream
of who's ever going to walk into your space, I'm
pretty sure Julia Roberts is number one.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Yeah. And is there any more iconic hair that exists
her style?
Speaker 2 (13:57):
By the way, I was going to say, it's the hair, it's.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Smile, it's her, it's all the things.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
And she chose you.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
That's the thing. That's my point. It's like your success
is for a reason. And I always say the people
that stand out you can get somewhere. You can have
an introduction, you can have help, you can have all
the things, but the talent ultimately is the only thing that.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Will keep you there.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Yeah, you get there, you can get there.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
One thing I wanted to add in terms of building
this sustainable brand, I think that one thing that has
always worked for us, and it's kind of overused, but
this idea of being authentic, like everything that we're doing,
that we're putting out, that we're discussing, that we are
trying to share with our clients and our community is
(14:48):
authentically what we would want for ourselves, you know, and
so we're viewing it through that lens often, like, you know,
if we were on the other side of this, what
would work for us? And sometimes, you know, we're doing
things and people are like, oh, I don't really know
about that, but eventually it catches up, you know, like
(15:08):
what we might be seen is doing something that's slightly.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
Against the grain. You know. Katie kind of touched on
this earlier. It's like she didn't really have a choice.
Speaker 4 (15:17):
You know. It's like you're this black woman, You're showing
up in this way, and so you have to have
the hard conversation. You have to acknowledge certain things. So
we've always been like very outspoken around politics and things
that were happening in our world as a startup brand,
you know, because it was very authentic to us. And
now of course everyone's you know, discusses this idea of
(15:39):
you know, who are you as a brand, like authentically,
are you expressing yourself? And you know we've always done
that and we'll continue to be that way.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
I think that the consumer or client, I think they
see authenticity, they know it that I think they're given
credit for.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
You know.
Speaker 1 (15:57):
Yeah, love for you to talk about sort of what
is most exciting to you, like in terms of what
you're doing now, like in terms of product, in terms
of the space, are you planning on opening more?
Speaker 3 (16:12):
Oh god? So all right? So the best thing and
the hardest and always like where we are. We love
a small team, We love a small space. About who
is their right mind would take on more real estate
right now? You know it's not worth it. But I
(16:33):
will say what sometimes brands that launch a product, what
they do is they launched a product and then they
try to find the community afterwards around that product. I
think what really is working for us and has always worked,
is that we had the community first, and then we
leaned on them before we launched one product, before we
(16:55):
designed any packaging. Mica had this idea, We did this
huge survey, and we really took the downtime that we
had during COVID like seriously and while we were scrambling
to make sure that the attiliate could even stay open.
We got this survey up and running, and we asked
our clients everything about their beauty closet. What are you
(17:19):
buying right now? Commus are you spending? What are your
top three items, what are your top five items, what
are your top ten items? And we took that information
and took their concerns and that was our starting point
for developing our product line. So we have this community
of women that it's like the best secret, you know
(17:40):
that they are the most discerning. They want us to succeed,
but they also want us to make things that they
can use.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Sure, and how big is the range now of products.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
We just launched with two two more coming out in
a few months.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
I think you roll out son, study.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
Slow and study, but we by the end end of
next year will have about eight in.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
The art I love and it's and it's always neat
what kind of affects you and what doesn't like? What
gives you? What makes it hard to go to sleep?
Are you do you have fears about doing this? It's
because just being an entrepreneur is very different than being
an artist.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Yeah, I mean everybody has fears I certainly do. And
you know, I'm in the throes of perimenopause.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Mike is, so it's so fun.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Yeah. So anxiety and lack of sleep and worry at
night is just part of the game. But I mean,
of course you have fears that listen, I worry, are
we late? You know? But then if we're late, just
do it better. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe I don't
have fears. I feel like we have this army of
(18:49):
women behind us that, like always, I look to them
and I just know it's going to be okay. I
know that one thing that Mike and I and I
feel like I'm talking too much. I'm gonna shut up
real soon, Mica.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
But one thing that her and I something tells me,
you guys would cut each other off if you needed to.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Yeah, we would.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Yeah. But one thing that I think is important that
a lot of people don't talk about as entrepreneurs is
that we've always had the same endgame, and we always
knew that in a few years. You know, we do
want to sell the company, we want to exit, We
want to do different things with our lives. We want
to have different chapters in our lives. And I think
(19:29):
once you know where you're going. It's easy to just
be in the present because then you know what you're
working towards. Like one person said to us, like, I mean,
how could you be thinking ahead? Like don't you want
to hold on to it forever? And we're both like, no,
we sure don't.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
It's like we want to build something great, you know,
and pass it off to someone else, because I think
that's the fun. I mean, for me, the fun is
in the building, right, Like having this thing that.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
You build, you create, and then you iterate and you.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
Build something else, you create that and at some point,
you know, you hand it off to somebody else.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
To continue continue doing that. Are they going to do
it the way that you would do it? No, But
at that point who cares? Who cares? That's okay because
it's different.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
I'm a huge believer in eight Not for everybody, but
I'm a huge believer in building something to the point
where you have maxed out what you can do for it,
and then it's time for it to fly with somebody else,
you know, spread the way, move and move on, you know.
And I think that's you know, at least for me,
I think that's just a great It's like it's kind of.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
Making peace with like exactly what you said.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
It's like creating something and growing it and then at
some point you wake up and go, it's like time to.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Fly with somebody else now, you know.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
And it doesn't always happen, and it's not necessarily the
dream for it for everybody.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
You know.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
I've had amazing founders on the pod that are just like, no, no, no,
I have no egxit plan. That's never my thing. And
then people are like, I'm exiting it in two years
from now. I'm like, Jesus, yeah, you guys, I'm so
impressed with you. I think surrounding yourself with people like
the Emigreeds of the world, even though there's only one
Emmigreed by the way, and like Diane from First and Burn,
(21:18):
I think these are women that I think we need
to get inspired by women like this regularly and surround
ourselves with women like who do quite frankly.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Give you a you know, have you.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Guys ever had any challenges like working together? Because as
I said of the best friend thing, the partner thing,
it doesn't always work, but when it does, it's like
the perfect magic, right, And so what do you think
makes it work so well with you guys. And have
you ever had a moment where you felt like you
(21:52):
couldn't agree on where you wanted to take something?
Speaker 2 (21:54):
Or are you always so InSync?
Speaker 3 (21:56):
Oh? No, no, no, we're human, of course we're too.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Very I think it's great. I think it's healthy.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Yeah, very different individuals, you know, And I think because
we have the same end goal, we're always going to
be on the same page. And you know, like that
thing where someone if someone else talks about your family,
you're fighting them, but like you know, you all could
fight like internally, like nobody can come for Mica, nobody
(22:25):
can come for Katie. But when it comes two of us,
we're both LEO women. It is gnarly sometimes, I don't know,
even when you know, I'm sure I drive her nuts
and even when she's driving me nuts, it's just kind
of like we retreat to our corners and you just
keep it moving, you know, because the world is against
(22:46):
black women enough. At the end of the day, we're
never going to throw each other under the bus. Like
we have different strengths, we try to go back to
highlight those strengths. But you know, we're not as close
as friends anymore. But I don't think that is necessarily
a bad thing. I think it makes us better like
business partners. I think she needs different things out of friendships.
(23:10):
You know, she's a mom and I'm not, and I
need different things out of friendships like that support like
my phase in life. I don't know. I think like
having the shared history helps because there's trust there, like
I'm not going to let somebody else come in and
you know, know half the things about my life that
Mica does and vice versa, but just very different people
(23:33):
to go.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
One thing I want to touch on is you mentioned perimenopause,
and I feel like menopause is this thing where like
it's the weirdest thing because no one talked about it
for like one hundred years, and now I feel like
there isn't like a room you walk into where women
aren't talking about it. And thankfully, I think, you know,
very big public women are talking about it, writing books
(23:56):
about it, and from Halle Berry, Naomi Watts goes on
Gwyneth like you know everyone, And I think I want
to talk about that because I think something that I
imagine is a huge conversation in your in your salon
is hair loss because I feel like that's I mean,
(24:16):
I must hear a friend or a dinner or an
event or literally anything there's someone I know or don't
know that's, oh my god, my hair's flying out from
the age of thirty.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Eight to fifty five.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Like it's just like, oh my god, my hair used
to be this or I know that that's some of
the focus of the product, But like, tell me how
that impacts you and how often you hear this in
the room, because I imagine it's daily.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
I mean it's it's hourly, hourly. Yeah, So what interest
come being is that you know, I'm in my twenty
fifth year of being a hair colorist, and a lot
of the clients that I started with when I was
in my twenties are now going through the same phase
of life that Mike and I are. If they're not
going through perimenopause, they're going through postpartum, and if going
(25:08):
through that, then they're dealing with maybe an illness or
some sort of chronic condition. And again, going back to
that survey that we took, there was not one person
that did not want help with their hair health and
their hair loss, and so we knew that there was
absolutely no freaking way we were going to launch with
a shampoo and conditioner R. Nobody talk about saturated, nobody
(25:31):
wants it, nobody needs it, and nobody cares. Nobody cares lass.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
It's literally putting liquid gold on your head to grow
your hair.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Yeah, that's the only way it's going to stand out
at there.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
Yeah. So our poor kevist and formulators, I mean we
were like, Okay, that's great, what else? What else? And
we would just push it and like listen, before it
also became trendy, Micah was taking all sorts of herbs
and things. I mean, it became clear that, like a supplement,
it was going to be one of the first go tos,
(26:03):
but we had to It also was clear that we
had to have some sort of through line with the
internal and the external because they both were affecting hair
health and hair loss. That's where our strength also came in.
Micah really took the lead with the supplement. I took
the lead with the serum. We got to both kind
of put it together, and that's where our next two
(26:23):
releases are both both topical and internal as well. Tea
that has some of the same properties as the supplement
out with one of probably the best hair mask I've
ever used in my whole career. And that is saying
a lot. So again, having our clients lead the charge
and what are the most important things that they're needing
(26:45):
right now. So yeah, I just think no one's really
approaching it the way that we are, Like we're not,
you know, pick a brand like you know where it's
not shampoo, conditioner, hair spray, like sure, Like that doesn't
even make sense to us. It's not how we run
the business on a day to day basis. People come
(27:06):
in there really a obviously for excellent color and styling,
but really to have like we're kind of known to
like be the fixers, and you know that's how God,
that's how I got Emma and going off and DVF
and all of these women. And we look at these
(27:26):
women walking through our doors who cannot be any more
picky and there that's my point.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Yeah, trust you guys are doing something very right over there.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Taking hormones out of it.
Speaker 1 (27:38):
I know that's a bold statement because you can't really
take hormones out of anything.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
So I don't really mean it that way.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
I just mean hair one oh one, you know, as
someone who is not adventurous with hair. I mean I
literally am like sharing the seventies right now, like my hair.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
I don't cut it.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
I don't like it's my secure bank, it right, So
and I think for many women it is and had
I've had Unfortunately many friends go through cancer, and it's
obviously I would say the thing that hurts most is
when they lose hair, and because they don't feel like
women anymore, they feel that they look in the mirror
at that point and go, now, I have cancer, right,
(28:19):
And I went through this with one of my very
best friends.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
And it's like hard. I get emotional, and I say.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
I think hair is one of the most important things
to us as women, and I think that when we
talk about how do we preserve that, how do we
why is everyone losing their hair?
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Like meaning, I know it's hormonal.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
I know it's all the shifts and all the things, right,
but I also know one of my best friend's moms
is seventy five with the most gorgeous, full head of
hair you've ever seen, and it's like Rapunzel. I mean,
it's gorgeous. So I do want to understand. I guess
from where you are, is it the color?
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Is it bad? Colorists.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
Is it just like, what is it that is killing
the hair or is it all of it? I know
that's a very loaded question, but I think for my listeners,
I want to share what young people and then just
going all the way up can do to sort of
preserve the health of their hair.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
Start with the external stuff that I'm going to have
Mica takeover on one some of the other factors that
are contributing listen from the beginning. I've never been the
colorists that wanted to like fry anybody's hair, like you
cannot reverse some of that. And my kind of signature
is like, how can we make this color the best
(29:40):
version of what your hair really wants to do. And
obviously there are some exceptions to the rule, like I
have to take Julia from blonde to red to you know,
all the things for her different roles. But for the
most part, people have always come to us to correct
bad color, to get them on like a healthy tre
(30:00):
with a good relationship with hair color. And it seems
counter you know, productive, because you know, you want people
coming back often so you can have their money, but like,
really do you because if your hair is healthy and
then they're stuck with you for like decades instead of
then leaving you after a couple of years because you've
damaged it. You're making more return that way. So I've
(30:23):
always put my I've always banked my career on that
and been very happy with it. It may kind of
pigeonhole me as maybe the boring one, but I can
tell you I can fix anything because and then once
it's fixed, they never want to leave, you know.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
Will you say no if someone says I'm I want
to go platinum, right and you look at their hair
and you go.
Speaker 3 (30:47):
That's a bad idea. That's a bad idea. Your hair
is also a very different animal when you're in your twenties, thirties,
forties on nons and everything. Yeah, exactly. So I'll tell
them like, Okay, you really want to try it. The
hair age is just like we do. So if you
really want to try it, and I think the hair
can handle it, and they're good with doing a good
(31:08):
shop afterwards. As far as the other factors of hair loss,
I'll have Micah speak to that. Well.
Speaker 4 (31:14):
When you were talking about it, I was thinking about
one of the major contributors to this is stress too.
Like I mean, think about the society and the culture
that we're living in, Like we're constantly engaged, We're constantly
being fed horrific news of things that are happening not
only in our backyard but around the world, and social media,
(31:38):
we're ingesting all of these things and comparing ourselves to
other people all the time.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
So I think a big part.
Speaker 4 (31:44):
Of it is the stress, you know, and what that
stress does throughout our body. You know, it creates inflammation.
It throws your adrenals into overdrive, and that has a
compounding effect on the rest of your body, and it
shows up in your hair, primarily hair.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
And again, so it's a big contributor.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
And when we started our research, we found out that
over seventy five percent of women will experience hair loss
in their lifetime.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Yeah, that is mental.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
It's so mental.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
It's mental, and that needs to be said louder.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Yeah, because my first experience was after my first son,
and then it got really, really thick, and then after
my second son.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
It just was different. Yeah, it just was different. Yeah,
And I just I'm like, God, you guys really take everything,
don't you. But our hearts, our hair. They don't talk
about us loud enough. And one thing that we've never
had a problem with is talking. You know, we'll talk
about anything and everything. We'll chat about it. If it's taboo,
(32:45):
even better, we're like, let's talk about it more, you know.
And hair loss is one of those things. And our
clients seeing that we actually were really working towards the solution,
they were like, we'll trust you guys. You know, you
haven't led us wrong so far. So, like Micah was saying,
this constant bombardment of connection with so much technology as well,
(33:08):
I mean he I haven't seen a person that is
as technology challenge is like she will use her phone
on purpose.
Speaker 4 (33:15):
I lost my phone on Saturday. I still don't have
a new phone yet. I lost it at the Ballue
Museum downtown and somebody's like, aren't you freaking out? And
I'm like, well, not really, because I can text from
my computer and I've been working in front of my computer.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
So I think this afternoon I'll go get a new one.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
Yeah, And then like social media's wild. I'm on the
Hybro hippie account, but I don't have a personal one
because like I don't need anymore, you know.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
I didn't have to have it for my brand. I
don't think I would.
Speaker 3 (33:44):
Have it at all. Yeah, you know much.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
There's there's a way that your brain can relax when
you don't feel that you.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
Have to be.
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Something out in responsive or if they know, but in
business with a brand, as you know, you have to
be right. You have to just figure out how you
want to play the game. You don't have to play
it the same as everyone else, but you do have
to be in it.
Speaker 4 (34:08):
I think we've worked recently and over the years, we've
had a lot of ups and downs with our business.
And we opened eight months to the day before COVID
and had to shut down. We were one of the
first ones that had to close and the last businesses
that were allowed to open. So we've done a lot
of this and we didn't even touch on prior to this,
(34:29):
things like our relationship with an old investor that went south.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
I mean, that's a whole nother episode.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
But I've been there.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
We've all been there, and I can tell you right
now every single woman at that table at Emma's house
has been there.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
Yeah, at least months. It was devastating, and we wasted
about seven years trying to get like hiro hippie. The
first iteration of it off the ground and we had
to start over from scratch.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
Okay, I want to talk about that for a second.
I'm not going to let you stay. I'm not going
to let you pass over that, because the whole intention
of Climbing and Heels is talking about that. And every
woman that I've had on here, every single one has
said the same thing. It's like, you know this brand
because this is the brand that's winning. But there was
so many fails before this that you never heard about.
(35:18):
That I cried in my kitchen, that I cried in
my closet, that I lost everything that I you know,
and the stories are endless and they're always going to
be and I think at the end of the day,
what goes public typically is the win, right. You know,
some people fall harder than others, some people that hurts
(35:39):
more than others.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Seven years is a lot is a lot.
Speaker 1 (35:44):
I mean, it's a lot, and you're never going to
forget it, and you learned from it. But it's also
why you are where you are now. And so I
think it's sort of like in those moments, you just
have to I think trust the universe has some plan
that you just may not know about yet.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
And the way things worked out is that we were
able to gain one hundred percent control of the company.
So that means for a much more handsome exit when
we're ready to do so, and when it was time
to rebuild, the fact that we still had our same
mission and we just kept at it, that's when I
(36:22):
knew we were going to be okay. You know, we
both didn't falter. We were like, okay, we have to
do it in a different way. We did it in
a smaller footprint. It ended up being better, less overhead, Like,
we did it in a smaller space, but it was
one that we could really control. And then if we
had opened up the original footprint that we planned on
(36:44):
then getting shut down with COVID, we would have been
dead in the water, Yeah, because our overhead would have
been so high. I still think of the day we
found out that that deal went south, and I get
a feeling, a pit in my stomach that to this
day stops me in my tracks. I do know that feeling,
and more people know that feeling than you know. Yeah,
(37:06):
And I did want to say, because we've you know,
touched on the Emma's and the Julia's and Gwynnis and
all the people that you know are well known that
are in our corner. You know, my very first client
was this woman named Suzanne Nora Johnson and she's still
my client today. And Suzanne Nora was the first female
(37:28):
managing director of Goldman Sachs. And I used to shampoo
her hair as an assistant at Frederick Fakai. And she said,
when you get promoted, I'm going to become your client.
She said, I just like your hustle, I like the
way you work. Suzanne Nora Johnson has been there for
Mike and I in ways that are just it could
(37:49):
literally make me cry. She was just always there for us.
She's a woman that you know, few people may know
her name, but like she she's now the current chair
of the board at USC. She took over for Rick
Ruso Cash's but she's just this legend who she's always
(38:10):
treated us. It didn't matter if we were twenty two
or now in our late forties. Suzanne has always treated
us as smart, capable women. Whenever we really needed like
just the real deal, she would give it to us.
And she is now, you know, one of our investors,
(38:30):
as are many of our longtime clients. Those women and
there are many women like Suzanne. Our lead investor is
a client of mine who have had for twenty three years,
who nobody would know, and she is not rich or famous,
but she gave us a quarter of a million dollars
on the spot.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
You have to think about that because as someone who
is an investor, you know, there are moments where I
meet women that are so impressive in these moments and
I'm like, are you doo race, Like, are you because
you want to be part of yeah?
Speaker 2 (39:06):
Their orbit?
Speaker 3 (39:07):
Yeah, because you are a believer. And to me, I.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
Think especially I do think that's a little bit how
women invest. It's kind of like the same way we
approach anything in life right with our heart.
Speaker 3 (39:23):
Right.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
It's sort of like you feel it, you're connected to it,
you believe in it, because otherwise you can't do it.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (39:29):
Right. One of your biggest fans are a mutual friend,
Cleo Wade. She love you know, Cleo. I've only been
friends with her for a few years. Cleo blog multiple
investors to the table that ended up accounting for a
huge part of our raise herself. We've just had these
people show up for us in big ways, and not
(39:51):
all of them are big names, and I think it's
important for they don't need to make it, they don't
need to be they don't.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
Need to you know, anonymous. Yeah, it's just having that support.
It's just having that support. And I'll tell you this,
you know. And I think it's part of why Emma
started fifteen percent with a roar and started doing a
Seat at the Table dinners with Stephanie from Google, because
these are champions of women. But what I will say
(40:18):
is women don't just support and write checks to be cool.
And it doesn't matter how much money they have or
don't have. They invest. If they're believers, they invest if
they connect with it. And I've seen that over and
over because I've seen I've also seen women not be
able to get a check from a woman, you know.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
So I see that a lot.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
So it's not because you're a woman, it's not you know,
it's not for any of those reasons. It's because the
talent is there, because they're experiencing it, because they're living it,
and because they believe in it.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
And I am so excited to watch you guys grow.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
And timing is everything, guys, and everything happens for a reason.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
I believe that I've lived it, trust me, lived it.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
And there are those moments where you like sit in
your closet just crying by yourself and you're like, I can't,
I can't, I can't.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
I'm done. Like this is like I'm I'm exiting stage left.
Speaker 3 (41:16):
I can do.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
And then you know, and then you.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
Get that light and you get that client, and you
get that woman who's like, yeah, you're doing this and
this is how and this is why and these are
the people that are going to come join the room
and you know, and you get that and you don't
forget that, and you don't forget that, you know. So
I'm here for the ride. I'm here to watch you guys.
(41:41):
I'm going to come in and have you guys, you know,
transform me.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
I adore you both. You're so impressive.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
I'm so obsessed with Hybro Hippy and so is everybody,
and you know, I think we're really excited to for
everyone to be able to get a piece of Hybro Hippy.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
Now, thanks for being on.
Speaker 3 (42:00):
Thanks for having us.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
Thank you so much to Katie and Micah for coming
on the pod today. I have mad respect and admiration
for what they've built and what they have planned for
the future. The women famous and not known, just brilliant
women that continue to support them and help them grow
and live their brand just is a testament to the
(42:23):
talent and the authenticity of their brand. I mean you, guys,
Julia Roberts. It's like, I don't even there's another fifty
names that are the most famous in the world. But
let's just start and end with Julia and I just
want to say I learned a lot today. I got
very inspired today. I also love keeping it real. I
(42:44):
also love talking about the what feels like a failure
in the moment in order to move forward and be
exactly where you're meant to be. So thank you so
much for listening to Climbing and Heels. If you haven't already,
please subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the iheartapp,
or wherever you get your podcasts. You don't miss a
(43:05):
single episode this season, and be sure to follow me
on Instagram at at Rachel Zoe and the show at
Climbing Inhales pod for the latest episodes and updates.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
I will talk to you soon.
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