Psychological Aspects of Breast Implants

How do you deal with the empotional impact of a debilitating chronic illness and being misdiagnosed? How can you avoid the shame, guilt, and the downward spiral that so often accompanies long-term illness?

Special Guests: Eden Sassoon (IG: @edensassoon) and Rev. Tawana Davis (IG: @rev.ms.tee) Follow Kristin on Instagram: @kristin_e_nobles and Christine on Twitter: @CMTorres1017 For more information: www.sicktitties.com

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Close to the Chest with Kristen and Christine is brought
to you by I Heart Radio. My name is Kristin
Nobles and today is November one. This week's episode is
about the psychological impact of breast implant illness. There are
no words to describe what I went through in twenty
three years of chronic illness. The anxiety, depression, helplessness, fear,

(00:25):
all of the moments of being rejected, told that they
couldn't help me, the disease wasn't real. That left me
feeling like I was crazy. It left me ready to
give up. There were times where I carried so much
guilt and shame. I didn't know how I was going
to move forward. But then I started to do my
research and realized the injustice and what we're going through,

(00:45):
and ironically, then I became a fighter. I started to
meet other women and realized that we were not alone,
that this was not our fault, this was nothing we chose,
and I started to develop a plan to hopefully turn
all of my pain into a sense of purpose. And
becoming part of this community made me a strong, determined,

(01:07):
passionate woman who wasn't going to allow this to happen
to other people. So honestly, having b I I nearly
took my life, but it also made me the woman
I've become and allowed me to be noble, be sin
and then question dogut spot walk into the room, heads

(01:29):
turning on down on the fire, Christine. Today we're talking
about the emotional impact of breast implant illness, a debilitating
chronic disease. It varies from patient to patient, but the
fallout is intense, and patients can be triggered by the financial, physical,

(01:52):
and psychological impacts the disease has on them. I know
firsthand this can decimate you emotionally, and I want to
find out how real survivors avoid the shame, guilt, and
downward spiral that so often accompanies a mysterious long term illness. Well, Christian,
I mean you've been sicking now for almost twenty years.
And it's not just like, oh I'm not feeling good,

(02:15):
or I have a headache or a stomach ache, or
I don't feel like getting out of bed today. I
mean you spent over a thousand days and nights in
a hospital. That's over three years, and you've had body
parts taken out and bionic parts put in. I mean
every system in your body has been affected. How is
it that you stay so upbeat and hopeful? You know?

(02:37):
When I first found out what was happening to me,
I was angry. Then I started to realize it was
time to take control of the situation and not only
help myself, but see if we could help other people
using whatever talent tenacity I could muster up the process
of grieving and accepting that my implants for killing me
was brutal. However, once I turned my shame into fuel,

(03:00):
I started to realize I wanted to fight not only
for my life but the women out there who had
no idea what was happening to them. I started to
truly believe that through telling our stories, we could turn
all this pain into a purpose that could literally save lives.
And that is all very noble Christens. But during all
of this, you not only have to deal with all

(03:21):
the debilitating effects of being chronic le I, but also
that the doctors have mistagnosed you, They've accused you of
being drug seeking, they've gasolet you, telling you it's all
in your head. Yes, even as recently as this past summer,
I was gasolt when I met with a top plastic
surgeon and sat there listening to him tell me that
B I I does not exist. Then I shared I

(03:43):
was diagnosed by his colleague and he still refused to
treat me. I was so deflated, but thanks to the
encouragement of my other doctors, I found another surgeon, but
it cost me significant healing time and he was my
quote in network doctor. So I know forstand how this
can be defeating, which leads many of us to feel

(04:04):
helpless and want to give up. I almost did. As
we've heard from other women who have survived and thrived,
it really requires you to have an unstoppable self esteem
and be diligent with your research and yourself until you
find that doctor who can and we'll treat you. Yeah,
you've really put yourself out there, Christen. I mean helping
other women find out that this is real. And I've

(04:27):
seen you get trolled on social media. I mean being
accused of bringing this all on yourself, being told that
this is the price you pay for your vanity. I mean,
how do you stay on track? I mean how do
you persevere regardless of how you're feeling emotionally. I mean
you're on a mission to help women and to save lives.

(04:47):
I mean, what keeps you going? I mean, what is
your secret? And how is it that you don't take
all those people out? Well, to the trolls, I just
invoked my southern charm and say, bless their heart. I
know you're is the New York south of Canada, But seriously,
many people have bought into this dogma that allowed this
to become an epidemic in the first place. I am

(05:10):
still shocked at the amount of people who don't know
about b I I or any of the other risks
associated with breast implants. Many of these people still think
silicoas revolutionized and somehow made it safe back on the market.
So when I share about people like Symbol Goldrich who've
been fighting for the black box warning for over forty
years and how this came to be, I find it

(05:32):
eventually as people here how painful this is and how
we were not given full disclosure. That's when we get
people to show compassion and truly destigmatize this disease. Now,
I know we have exciting news about the black box warnings,
but let's see that for after the interview. So to continue,
have you lost any friends over this? Yes? Many? Unfortunately

(05:56):
in this community. We've lost way too many people to
the disease or the emotional impact, and I'm also very
lonely at times, and I've had to distance myself from
people who didn't understand what I was going through. One
of the hardest things about this disease is how isolated
you feel, because until recently, this wasn't widely recognized or

(06:16):
even really talked about. And the irony for me is
it was social media that made this more widely recognized
and allowed us as women to meet each other to collaborate.
Now I'm part of a community of amazing men and
women that are all advocating for full disclosure the Medical
Device Safety Act, and they've been there to help me
navigate this unknown road and allowed me to feel and

(06:38):
heal again. It seems like you all really rely on
each other, and that's what's inspiring. On that note, who
do we get to talk to you with today? Eden
sass Soon. We all recognize her name, but it's her
as an advocate that's the true story here. She is
a mom, a beauty icon and supporter to many. She

(06:59):
is also a thoughtful, strong woman who has helped me
a lot, and we all know she grew up in
extraordinary circumstances and it's really redefining beauty. She's a b
I I survivor and also out there sharing her story
on the front lines, helping women and men emotionally overcome
so many issues. Eden is still battling b I I
and I'm really curious to hear how she maintains her fight.

(07:32):
All right, so Eden Sassoon, thank you so much for
joining us on Close to the Chest with Kristen and
Christine today. I want to talk to you a bit
about what you've been doing in the beauty industry for
change in your personal journey with breast implant illness. Do
you mind sharing a bit with the listeners about what
you've been through physically, emotionally and financially with b I I.

(07:53):
Of course. And first I'd like to thank both of
you for for thinking of me and for having me. Oh,
I just got the chills. It's a heavy topic. It's
life changing, and you know, we as women, we kind
of just depending on where you're at, don't take it
that serious, um until the body really kind of says, hey, hey, hey,
are you listening to me? Um? And sometimes you know

(08:16):
it's too late not too late, but you're past the
point of sort of what life was like prior to
breast implants. And I was nineteen and realizing like, wait, wait,
I don't look like my mom and my sister, and
I had these little boobs and my nipples are quint
of pointy, and I remembered I would use the word torpedo,

(08:38):
you know, torpedo tips, and then ha ha funny. No,
it wasn't funny. So it really started to to eat
at me. And why wasn't I like all these other
women come to find out my mom and my sister
had implants and I never knew. And at that point,
I just wanted to feel like a lady. A lady
say that at forty eight. At that point, maybe I
just wanted to feel sexy. Maybe I wanted to be

(08:58):
this five three three quarter girl with an okay body
but always trying to be better and you know, living
under the Sassoon name. And I wanted to just have
some breasts, and so I did. I went to my
father and I said, hey, of course, go to the
man that says, you know, beauty is if you don't
look good. We don't look good, and say, I don't

(09:19):
feel like I'm enough, and he'll say, okay, well let's
let's talk about this. So he did go about it
and in the right way. Thank you, Dad, because I
know you're listening and questioned like, okay, why do you
want it? You know, how is it going to make
you feel? Where this padded Brad for a week. It
was really sort of exterior stuff because I don't know
that at the time. We could all get to the
root of why do you want to put something that

(09:42):
doesn't belong in your body in your body to look
a certain way, to intern feel a certain way, to
make people respond to you in a different way. And
we could go on and on and on and on
about that. When you're changing the reality or the the
ideas of male female response love, what does it mean?
You know? I go to all different levels. So long

(10:03):
story Shirt. Right the second he said yes, I went
to his best friend. You was Dr Steven Zacks at
the time, and I said, doctor, what would you do
if I was your daughter only had three sons? And
I he said, here, you know, sign your life away.
Here's the silicone implant. I wanted the boobs. Nothing was
going to stop me. As someone who is an icon
and the beauty is business and you also do so

(10:26):
much in beauty for change. I feel you on the pressure,
and I think you touched on something that's so important
with every woman going through this, is that just because
you chose the implants Eden, we all know we didn't
choose this disease. So you've been sick for a long time, right,
Like this wasn't no, you know it started. I was nineteen,

(10:47):
so it started somewhat immediately. Um My sister passed in
O two, So if we did a math on that,
that was eight nine years. Maybe I would imagine around
six years things started to break and it started with
anxiety and depression. I had a sense of anxiety or
just growing up in this big world and in this

(11:08):
interesting family, UM with a lot of isms around me, alcohol, drug,
So there was always this I know that there's more
to this life. I know that you always in search
of a quest, curiosity, and then sort of when you
invite you know, the powers that be the universe that
the things that started aren't in alignment with your body

(11:31):
or your soul in like deeply in that changes everything.
I mean, we could talk about it in a scientific way,
which I'm not a scientist, so I choose not to,
but in a in a physical sort of energetic way,
you're cutting open your chest, which is right next to
your heart, and you are placing bags of silicone. I
meaning I placed bags of silicone in my body by

(11:55):
my heart and asked it to protect me for as
long as you possibly can. And it did its job
until it couldn't do its job anymore. And these doctors,
Now I'm not pleasing blame on anyone, but someone at
some point has got to take responsibility for this, because,
like I said, I'm not a scientist. I don't know that. Okay, well,
I'm not a doctor. I don't know it. Well, the

(12:16):
more that they see and the more that's happening and
the more that's unfolding, somebody has to be like, okay,
let me speak up. So we women who are struggling
and going through this and doing our best to to
come through it and reaching out to all other women
that are going through it and supporting them in any
way possible are having to do it. And I sort

(12:36):
of just wish that this kind of going off in
a different direction here. Feel free to bring me back
if you need to. But this the powers that be
in what area and how much of this this is
the green that that keeps this going on and this
illness continuing. It's just unacceptable. And then how much is
it in society and what we place on women and
how we buy into it that we need to look

(12:57):
a certain way like that is enough? And the emotional
impact this has on every woman is that rabbit hole
of questions of how we bought into a perception of
beauty right and emotionally to accept in a place that
I am enough, which is something you said a few
minutes ago. I literally wrote that down because I am
enough is the number one thing you have to accept

(13:19):
in my opinion, to move forward to treatment, because now
we're going back and saying we made a mistake. They
didn't tell me the truth. I want these out and emotionally,
that's a major moment. And so do you mind sharing
with the listeners what you did to deal with the
anxiety and depression during this process, because it doesn't get
cured overnight. It's an ongoing feeling. No, it doesn't get cured,

(13:43):
and it's still not cured, and it's definitely progressed um
consistent daily progress. So this happened you know and let's say,
oh too. Prior to that, UM, I didn't. I didn't
know what was going on, and I didn't realize of course,
Remember the body is starting to break down for trying
to protect itself. Then outside things are happening, like my

(14:04):
sister is overdosing and she's dying, and then my best
friend has cancer and is dying. Well, obviously distress on
that with the body. So I'm I don't realize that
I can't handle this all because of course I can
handle everything. No, I can't. And at that point I
had to get on medication. Um. And that's a very
fine line for me because I've tried a number of

(14:26):
times to get off of the antidepressants. And hey, if
it works for me and it keeps me in a
stable place, that I'm going to stay there. Um. And
if it doesn't, then you know again, I I'm sober
nine years. So I chose to get alcohol out of
my life because it wasn't managing manageable. I exercise sometimes
to a fault, it could be a little bit of
it is, um, But I have learned to slowly, steady

(14:49):
take it steady, you know, slow and steady wins this racy,
even don't don't keep pushing it because then in turn,
which thank you in plants, my thyroid you know, gave
out at a certain point and I've been on medication
for that for six seven years. And so I'm just
gonna right now and honestly even right there, to stop you.
The level of personal strength, acceptance, and adaption that you've

(15:13):
been through and the openness about your emotional, your physical
and self medicating through this process is not something unfortunately
unique to you. And I think that as all women
we go through depression. If we have things like that
in your advocacy there to allow women to come to
a place and men and say listen, I need to
change not beating the ship out of themselves, and as

(15:35):
women in this issue, we're all beating ourselves up when,
like you said, the energy needs to be directed towards
the education, information and full disclosure to know what this
really is. Right Like, I think the unknown part of
this causes huge anxiety. And I think for you, I've
never once looked at you and stared at your chest
first and foremost, I like, it's this amazing, beautiful woman

(15:56):
who is funny and vivacious and out there ativating others
while you're also motivating yourself. Thank you, thank you, thank you,
thank you. Um I somehow, I somehow, and today when
like I said to you, a lot of women do
reach out to me on on Instagram, and for anyone
who's listening, you always can because sometimes they hear a

(16:17):
lot of time, they just want to be heard. They
just want to talk to someone who's done it. They
just I mean I literally sort of I don't go
in lightly. I do go in with the truth, and
I do say, oh my god, congratulations, welcome to your life.
Like it's kind of like when you're like I'm getting
a divorce and you're like, oh no, You're like, yeah, congratulations.

(16:38):
You know, like people, oh this is so sad. No no, no, no, no,
Welcome to the you that you've been looking for for
however many years. She's about to come back and go figure.
You know, I've been searching and searching. I've always have
this book title for when I get, you know, really
up there, like in search of eating. It's always in
search of eating while I'm on another path, like there's
a little more in there that's got to come out,
so I get more sort of open and and capable

(17:01):
and willing and vulnerable and whatever that looks like. Being
part of this community of women has given me a
sense of purpose in my pain where I've met people that,
through the law of attraction, I would want in my
everyday life. What would you give women as advice as
they try to get through their day And what's the
self talk that Eden Sassoon has that really gives her

(17:23):
that attitude that is building you as a thriver in
a survivor. Great question. And I was listening to Dr
Amon this this morning and he was talking about the
positive thinking. He's like, you know, and he's a brain doctor.
I'm not, do you know, the positive thinking. I'm really
into the acceptance of what is and then sort of
moving through that, like really being present. And I'm very
much into like the Joe dispends her way of like

(17:44):
all right, look, this is how I've been programmed. This
is up until you know, nineteen got the boobs, and
then up here you're not good enough, so let's do
this surgery or all these things like okay, but today
is a beautiful day, so of course that's your programming.
But it doesn't have to be. So look in the mirror,
and and I do, and I see my eyes and

(18:06):
and I energetically have to shift it because we can
use these words, and yes they are helpful. But I
look in the mirror and I can see my shoulders
lift and broaden, and the energy lift off me. And
it's almost like, there's my avatar, right, there's your avatar.
That avatar doesn't have these silicone bags in Can you
imagine that avatar running with those amazing long legs like

(18:28):
a gazelle with like big implant. No no, no, no,
she's free, she's alive. I don't even know if we
call her. She whatever that energy is, she's just so powerful.
So I I shift it from just these thoughts because
it's almost like how many times you have to go
sit on the therapist couch like and talk. No, no, no,
let's take action. Let's move this energy, let's shift it.
Let's get in there. Let's reprogram, because that's what it is.

(18:50):
Your brain is trying to protect you, but it doesn't
know any better. So find someone that it can kind of,
you know, work with that you can up for me.
Start to reprogram this this, this that outdated program to
say the least, and get to this energetic place of
how how am I healthy? How do I give this energy?
So the guy woman being next to me can be like,

(19:13):
what is the what is that? Where is she coming from?
Oh my god? I just want want to be I
want to sit in it, you know, Or how she's
feeling a certain way, and I kind of come by
and I give her a smile, and and that person's
maybe five minutes, I don't know, one second changes They're
like they feel lighter. You know. How is it that
I can shift my energy to be of service to
another human being, Whether it's implants, is UM's food, addiction, depression, anxiety,

(19:38):
whatever it is, we go through it. We struggle. This
life is not easy, but we do have choices. That's
what we're all asking for, right We want people to
tell other women what the risk is financially, physically, and
emotionally if they make this jump into implant land. You've
dealt with the anxiety, the depression, the emotional impact. Do
you feel that you have a little PTSD going into

(20:01):
the medical system after all this? If you don't mind
me asking, I can't. I don't even know what to
say about that. A hundred percent. I don't know who
to trust. I don't know who to turn to. I
don't know. I mean, you really have to be your
own advocate and and and do the work like your
soldier on the ground with full weapons, going in like
I'm gonna figure this out with other people's you know,

(20:23):
point of views, because maybe hopefully they've studied well enough
or have some sort of internal compass moral compass that
will lead you in the right direction. I seek out
Eastern and Western doctors and somewhere in the middle of
both of them, when my head is spinning upside down,
do this, don't do this, to this, I listen to
my gut and I come to a place freedom within myself,

(20:48):
and you will start to the answers will come and
you will walk the path of least resistance. I know
that's you know, used, but it's the truth. You take
time out of every day to be there and support
others emotionally and as someone who's gone through it, who
pays forward the support. What would you give is advice
to family members, friends newly you know, friends of newly

(21:11):
diagnosed people. What do you recommend they do to be
a pillar of support to someone they know that's currently
being diagnosed and about to jump off this ledge. A
lot of friends and family members do reach out to
me or if I'm at like you know, my hormone.
Wherever I am, someone always says, hey, hey, my friend
or my sister or my my wife, whatever it may be,

(21:33):
is going through this and they and they question, I said, hey,
reach out. And so maybe as a family member, a
friend or a significant other or whatever that looks like
you find somebody who you maybe trust so you can
kind of be involved and say, hey, I saw you know,
let's just use me example or you you know, like
I saw so and so and it seems that this
is what she's going through and maybe you know you

(21:55):
can reach out or I asked, and I think just
getting getting curious about it, um being open and vulnerable
with them and then ominously just sitting there and kind
of shutting up and allowing them to go through their process,
but you being some sort of ground, you know, some

(22:17):
sort of pillars, because it's it's not easy and and
yes it can be done, and yes it's being done
all the time, and yes, all these beautiful, strong women's
stories are coming out and we're getting through it, and
we're all there to support you. Guys who are going
through it and I'm going through it again, and we're here,

(22:38):
we're doing the work. So I think as a family member,
um or friend, just be present and just sort of
maybe just kind of like you know, I would take
that energy shifted off me, listen to them where they're at,
say what can I what can I do for you today?
How can I make today a little leisure on on
your journey? Um? I mean, and that's really the and

(23:00):
just listen and to be there to encourage people not
to give up, to listen to us and allow us
to not be okay, but to know, not to quote Pink,
that we're broken but still beautiful, and that we can
do this. And I think for a lot of people,
the anxiety of the unknown turns into aggression, and it
turns into anger, and there's a big fear of rejection.

(23:20):
So I will say, I guess my last last question
is you know this fear of rejection we all have.
You've embrace that, and I think this idea I am enough.
Was there a moment when you realize that fun this,
I'm no longer afraid of being rejected. I'm afraid of
not loving myself because I see you live that truth
every day. I want to go back to that day

(23:43):
when I was walking down and I got the download
like get the breasts out. It's not your heart, get
the breasts out, not your heart, Get the breasts out.
And I just literally, like when I ripped open my
chest and they cut him and put these bags in,
I energetically saying to the doctor, hey, can you take
I was ripping open my chess, like get these out.
I need to feel my fucking heart. And at that moment,

(24:05):
I was on this new path, like my whole body
has the chills. Um. So for me, when that whole
shift was happening, it's as if my heart just like show.
It was like encompassed me and everybody else, and it
was happy, joy free, Let's let's go and and and
and I'm still there, and yet I'm like, okay, there's

(24:25):
a little more something going on. You got it just
sort of all right, Hey, I'm ready for more love.
I'm ready for more you know, bring it, Let's do this.
I'm not going to give up. And I know I
got you and I got others and and at the
end of that day, I get to them pay that forward.
So if I'm here to learn all these lessons, to

(24:46):
be able to pay it forward to other women, to
hold their hand, to cry with them too, and vice versa.
Then then you know what my last breath, I'm I'm
a enough enough, so I'm sorry. Wow. She is such

(25:15):
an inspiration and a reminder that the best medicine for
this disease is compassion. Well, based on that conversation, Kristen,
I think we have a new tagline. If these don't
feel good, we don't look good. You should turn that
into a T shirt. Chris already on it. She is
such an inspiration and so brave. Talk about somebody who

(25:35):
grew up with the icons of beauty and is out
there speaking her truth, really redefining what it means to
be beautiful. I look forward to seeing what's next for
her and following where her journey takes her. And next
we have another extraordinary guest, the Reverend Tawuana Davis. I
know if you want to meet an angel an advocate,

(25:57):
it's missed Tawana Davis. Not only is she a reverend,
but also just successfully defended her PhD and is harlem
strong battling metastatic breast cancer and b I I the
advocacy work she is doing is changing history, and through
her work, women will have the education and options they
need to make the best choice for their diagnostic, treatment

(26:18):
and reconstructive processes. It is so important to honor, educate,
and empower all women, but particularly those in the African
American community, because, as people should know, one in eight
women will face breast cancer. But in the African American community,
those women, they face a thirty one percent mortality rate,

(26:40):
which is higher than any other racial or ethnic group. Absolutely,
and that's ridiculous. And taking all that into consideration, breast
implant illness and breast cancer go hand in hand because
obviously reconstruction. So through her work, she's lobbying to destigmatize
the C word, leading by example in a preserving via

(27:01):
her faith. She's also sharing her story and it's how
many people who now face their fear of being diagnosed
and treated. Today we have Tawanna Davis, and I want
to thank you so much for joining Christine and I
are close to the chest. I think you are exactly

(27:21):
the type of woman that we need to talk to
that has not only been through the experience which I'd
love you to share more about but the way you've
turned this into a sense of purpose and persevered, I
think will not only be an inspiration for the listeners,
but a sort of guide book. And I want to
start by asking you if you mind sharing a bit
with our listeners about your experience with breast implant illness.
Sure Sure. I was diagnosed with metastatic her too positive

(27:45):
metastatic breast cancer in November. So through the treatment plan,
I decided to do reconstructive surgery, and because of other
issues that were happening, I needed the textured in plants.
Like wasn't really a choice. So when I received the
textured implants, I was never told of any risks outside

(28:09):
of the normal surgical risks or bleeding risks because I'm
on blood thinners, so on and so forth. So when
I did some some research, because I tried to keep
up with what's going on, because I'm an advocate not
only for myself, but to teach others to be advocates
for themselves. Because it's your body, your choice. So the
doctors aren't always the dual be all and all. Sometimes

(28:32):
you gotta look elsewhere for answers. So my daughter, who
went with me to every appointment, found this issue, if
you will. Again, we didn't know it was called something.
So she found this issue with textured implants. So in
the midst of that I had a recurrence. They found
another small mass and they were going to remove it,

(28:55):
and in the midst of doing an ultrasound or whatever,
I had a fluid in my us and I said, well,
what is that? And they kind of play dumped it
down a bit like and I had an amazing team
in Denver, and they said, oh, you know, the textured
implants may cause lymphoma. And I'm like, whoa wait a minute.
Lymphoma isn't that cancer. I already have cancer. Why would

(29:16):
I want textured implants and be at risk of another
cancer which is clearly not breast cancer? And I gotta
stress that it's another cancer that you would have to
deal with. So I said, okay, wait, let's back up
a bit. I have these textured implants. You want me
to keep them in the hopes that I don't get

(29:37):
breast implant illness? Absolutely unacceptable. So before we can even
get to the official diagnosis, which that's the direction we
were going in, because I did have fluid between my
skin and my breast, implants. I said, you know what
you're going in to remove this mass. I need you
to go in and remove these textured implants because I

(29:58):
don't want another form of cancer. Plus I was also
prepared for radiation in a couple of months, So I said,
give me the tissue expanders because then it will protect
my my heart because my cancer is on my left side.
It will protect my heart and my lungs. So I
had to make all these medical decisions. These medical decisions
were not recommended to me. These were decisions that my

(30:20):
family and and I decided to make once we found
out about breast implant illness. Once we found that out,
we had to change the trajectory of my treatment plan. Recently,
I had an appointment and what you just said is
so important that these things were not recommended to you.
So if you are a woman with fluid around your
breast or fluid filled cysts, what blows my mind is

(30:43):
the amount of radiologists specifically, and just to share with
our listeners, what Towanna went through is you go in
and you have this imaging and then it's not your
quote doctor that comes in, right t Wana, it's a
radiologist and that person comes in and tells you that
you have nothing to worry about and you should not
be concerned, and that's just you know something that's being researched.

(31:04):
But and and then what really shocked me is what
you mentioned is ana polastic large selemphoma shows up as
a form of fluid, and that fluid can leak into
your bloodstream. So I am a lymphoma survivor. How did
you draw deep to know what's like that they were wrong?
Because you were right, and that's so powerful. But it's

(31:25):
a moment that not everybody gets. I'm glad you asked
that question, because it wasn't because of my wonderful, courageous
prowess that I just knew to push back and ask
these questions. So I have been a volunteer or around
breast cancer survivors probably since I was around six years old,

(31:48):
so I knew of support systems. I saw for myself.
My step mom had has had breast cancer, My aunt
had breast cancer. They're both surviving, they're both doing well.
But I was always around a support system, right, so
when I was diagnosed, I already had kind of that
wherewithal to say, one, I need a support system too,

(32:12):
I should always ask questions and advocate for myself, and three,
when necessary, get a second opinion, and four do my
own research outside of Google when we go into Google.
That's one thing I wanted to share is that there's
so much misinformation out there that it's almost a digital
roulette of where you end up in your information escape.

(32:33):
And so I think having trusted resources, like you said,
if you were part of a breast cancer community, you
had access, I'm sure to a lot of advocates, And
so for our listeners, I really encouraged them to take
to Mana's advice, go to the f d A, go
to other survivors and people who are dealing with this.
People are campaigning to say there's no problem. They're underplaying it,

(32:54):
they're saying it's not that big of a deal. And
then the other side of it is people saying, holy
sh it. So you were in the community of people
who were probably acknowledging this correct absolutely. And it started
with my daughter because my daughter was with me at
every single appointment, every treatment, every step of the way,
every surgery, and I had multiple surgeries, multiple hospital visits,

(33:15):
and she just knew to push back and say, wait
a minute, what do you mean don't worry? You say
cancer and don't worry in the same sentence. That doesn't
sit well with me. We knew that we we had
to ask the questions, and that's what we teach women.
I learned it, so I passed that forward to other women.
Don't be afraid to advocate for yourself. There are no

(33:36):
questions that can be stupid or foolish or I don't
care what the question is. If you have it and
it's on your mind, it is important and that's how
you feel, and you should speak that because surprisingly you
will get the answers. And if they don't have the answers,
you can go elsewhere to get the answers. If your
doctor is offended, then shame on your doctor, because usually

(33:57):
doctors are like, no, go get that second opinion. You know,
I want you to be well. At least my team
of doctors did. They were very supportive with me getting
a second opinion. One of my questions for your tornas
what did you notice initially as your symptoms with the
B I I nothing really stood out for me in
the moment. It was more hindsight, like, oh, no, wonder

(34:18):
why I was feeling this? Way or no wonder why
I was feeling discomfort and I was feeling discomfort in
both because I had both breast removed even though I
had the cancer was prevalent in the left breast. I
had went on and had both breast removed bilateral astectomy
because her too positive is very aggressive, and so I

(34:39):
had grade three. I don't know if our listeners really know.
We hear a lot about staging, but grading is just
as important or even more important than the staging. So
I was at the top grade. So I had to
make a decision to have both of my breast removed
to diminish the chance of me having a recurrence. So
with that um, I was feeling this discomfort, a little swelling,

(35:03):
So I asked questions like, you know, what's what's going on?
And I think, you know, the recurrence really saved me.
I don't know if I would have made that decision
if they weren't already going in to take out the
mass or if I wasn't feeling that discomfort, they may
have given me ice packs or you know, told me
this is a part of the healing process. So I'm

(35:26):
ironically grateful for the recurrence that probably ended up saving
me from having lymphoma due to the textured implants. Well,
when you talk about the recurrence, and that's so powerful
because when you do a biletomo sectomy, how quick after
did you do reconstruction. Yeah, So I'm gonna try to

(35:49):
make this story very very short, So about three months
because we needed about three months of healing time because
I'm an active treatment because I am at a static,
i am always receiving chemotherapy, so my my immune system
is always challenged. I'm always gonna have neuropathy. I'm always
going to have fatigue, I'm always gonna have some some

(36:11):
semblance of nausea. All of that happens just on a
regular So we needed to wait a bit before I
got the tissue expanders first and then the implants, because
for our listeners, the tissue expanders stretch the skin and
the muscle so that they can place the implant into
your your body and your skin will form naturally around

(36:36):
the breast implant, which is why I needed the textured
implants because they put it on top of my muscle
instead of under my muscle. So the textured implants were
supposed to like marry my skin so that my breast
will be as natural as as possible. When I had
the bilateral mastectomy, UM, so, I had the six rounds

(36:57):
of chemo where I lost all my hair, my eight
couldn't eat, everything tastes like metal. Three months later, I
went in to have the bilateral mastectomy, removing both of
my breast. Then I went in for the radiation mapping
because they were going to do radiation, and they found
out that all of my cancer came back. So that
was my first recurrence, right, So then I had to

(37:20):
then switch doctors because in big pharma clinical trials just
aren't available everywhere. You have to be attached to a
certain hospital. So this particular hospital had a clinical trial
that really saved my life because that's how aggressive the
cancer was. So so I needed to just say that
to then bring me to the why it took so

(37:42):
long to get the tissue expanders. And then three months
after that, I had the breast implants put in, the
textured ones, and then a year later, UM I had
the recurrence. So we had the textured and plants taken
out because of the concern about the lymph oma, and
then to shoot expanders put back in because of the

(38:04):
radiation and then we took those out and put in
regular smooth in plants. But then I had a chematoma
and almost bled out. So I said, you know what,
take this ship out. I don't want any foreign things
in my body. I already have enough healing juices, if
you will, that's what we call them, because it's gross.

(38:25):
I think chemo sometimes is worse than the cancer itself.
But um, I said, take them out. So I'm breastless.
I'm breastless. One of the reasons why I wore my
Harlem T shirt today so you can see I am breastless.
And I had to embrace that. And I was really
hard for me to embrace because being at the time
I was diagnosed at forty six, I've had my breast,

(38:47):
I've had children, I've I've done you know what I
needed to do, and um, not to have breasts and
and to look in the mirror every day at these scars. Um,
it's hard. But it's also in origing one because I
know that I made the right decision to have those
textured implants removed, even though it required two additional surgeries,

(39:09):
but also because I think it's roomy, and I think roomy,
says this that you know, your scars is where the
light enters. So I take those scars and I embraced
the light. You know, the breath that I get to
take every day because I didn't have another cancer on
top of this aggressive cancer that I have. Well, you

(39:32):
are so brave and so open and first and foremost,
you know, you are stunning and radiant. And what I
would say to you is that you know, the Harlem
T shirt rocks, but your heart underneath it is what's
the pulse of your attitude and what you bring to
this community and to all women. And so when you
went to these doctors and you started sharing this, what

(39:55):
was the support system like for you and making the
decision to then remove the second set of IT plans?
You know, my my doctors were very supportive and and
really encouraged me that whatever decision I make is going
to be the right decision. Like if they offered a
treatment plan, if I didn't want that treatment plan, they

(40:17):
would remind me, TA, wanna, this is your decision, your body,
your choice. I am offering you options for a treatment
plan based on what I know. Cancer is so dynamic
and complex and we're still trying to figure out how
does this ship happen? Where does it come? Is it environment?

(40:37):
Is it food? Is it cultural? Is it? This? Is
it that? So my doctors um were very supportive. I mean,
I know they didn't tell me about the challenge with
the implants. Yes, And I realized that doctors aren't perfect either,
which is why we had to do as a family
the research that we needed to do and ask the
hard questions. So they were supportive of all the decisions

(41:01):
that I made, like even when they were going to
remove the recurrence the second the mass, my doctor said,
remove the implants. Uh. Yeah, And I said, let me
tell you why. I said, because I'm about to go
through radiation. I'd rather protect my heart and my lungs
than have one breast up here close to my neck
and one breast down here, because radiation shrinks your skin

(41:25):
and your muscles, and it damages all the layers of
your skin. My left and my right side don't even
look the same, even though I don't have breasts. So
I told her, I said, that makes sense to me,
that that is life giving to me, So take them out.
And she said, okay, we will do it, and yes,
that does make sense, and we'll put in the tissue
expanders to protect your heart and your lungs. Even though

(41:47):
I ended up getting radiation numinitis anyway, and spent a
week in the hospital with this form of pneumonia, but
I'm still here. These doctors have delivered all kinds of
like really scary news about what's going on in your
body and cancer and chemo and radiation and and all
this stuff. I mean, how did that affect you and

(42:08):
your family? So my daughter was with me during my
initial diagnosis, and I I was so so fortunate, um
that I had the type of doctor that sat me
down face to face, because I hear horror stories about
doctors picking up the phone and saying, oh, by the way,
you have breast cancer. Okay, talk too soon, so you
had your next appointment. But I had a doctor that

(42:30):
hugged me and was very supportive of me and my daughter.
And I don't even remember crying that day. I remember
looking at my daughter and the fear on her face.
Because in our community or culture, we don't even say cancer.
We say the C word, or people die in silence

(42:53):
and you don't find out they have cancer until they die.
So for us, the equation cancer and death has that
equal sign. So my daughter was devastated, and I felt
like I needed to be strong and to really tap
into my faith and that in that moment, and then
there were moments where I would break down and ask

(43:16):
why you know I can I was pretty I've never
had surgery before, I've had two healthy children, I never
had blood pressure medic I mean, I'm I was a
healthy person and for this to happen was was such
a surprise. So I went through the whole stages of
grief because it's a loss. It's a loss of health,

(43:36):
then the loss of my my breasts, then the loss
of being around other people. Like at the time, I
was an associate pastor at a fairly large church. I
had to stop going to church because I couldn't be
around people, because you know, we want to hug in
the church. That's what we do if we don't get
nothing else right in the church, we love to hug.

(43:58):
So I couldn't go because of the My immune system
was compromised. So I was wearing a mask before COVID,
I was wearing gloves before COVID. I was staying in
and out of large crowds before COVID, so COVID just
took this thing to the next level where it's even
further isolating because I can't even really be around my
kids because we don't live in the same household. But

(44:20):
we're all vaccinated. Let me just say that. And I
did get my booster shot, but it was very emotional,
and I would have times where I would look in
the mirror with no hair, no eyebrows, about fifty pounds lighter,
and look in the mirror and say, who is that?
I couldn't see me A strong yes, And if I

(44:42):
can add to that, strength also comes with weakness or
tears or concern. That's what makes us strong, being able
to acknowledge all of that that is going on, and
then still being able to reconcile all of that and
move forward. So I'm a faithful person. I'm a person

(45:05):
of faith. And people talk about, oh, you shouldn't fear,
just trust trust trust. Nah, the universe gave me this, this,
this fear, so I can do something about it, so
I can respond the challenges when the fear keeps me stuck.
You know, cancer could have kept me stuck, but no,
I needed to say, nah, this is not gonna get

(45:26):
the best to me. I was born and raised in Harlem.
I didn't seen the worst, been through the worst, life
at risk so on, and so I can get through cancer.
So with all of those feelings, that what that's what
gave me the strength to then move forward. And the
love of my family and the love of my community.
I had a very large community because I was a

(45:48):
local pastor so and I was into, you know, out
on the streets protesting when things were happening, and so
I had a big village. So that really helped me
fund on my emotions. But they were still there, and
there were times when I would be in the bed
crying and my grandson would come in from school and
peek in the room and come and check on me,

(46:10):
and he wouldn't say a word. He'll just come in
and he'll say you're okay, Mima, and I'd be like, yeah,
I'm okay, and then he would just walk quiet. Those
are the things that gave me life and helped me
get through all of the emotions that I was feeling.
The love that I was feeling really took precedent and
took control over all the other feelings that I had

(46:32):
to experience. But yes, it is scary, it's frustrating. I
was angry, I was piste off. I was happy to
still be alive, happy to have a successful surgery, happy
to be on a clinical trial, happy to be with
no evidence of disease. So my treatment is working. But yeah,
it's still that mixture of a whole bunch of emotions

(46:53):
and feelings that I still feel to this day, because
this can be a lonely journey at times when you
were just made your fork in the road. Where in
I think this is so important to point out to
a lot of people about destigmified tizing this disease, is
that cancer sucks, right, And then you're at that fork
in the road and you're making a decision and you're

(47:13):
offered these implants as an option to get yourself back
right like, and we think that's the best choice because
they don't sit there and say all of like you said,
they don't give you this full disclosure is what I
like to call it, about the financial, emotional, and physical
risks of that path versus a flat closure or something else.
And so another question I have for you is, in

(47:34):
that moment, did they give you the risks of the
texturized implants? Yes? But not the breast illness as a
you know, not that part. How did they miss that part?
I'm not I don't understand. But they did tell me
of the general risks, if you will, and even offered

(47:58):
other ways to do reconcu ouctive surgery that I wasn't
eligible for because at the time I was fifty pounds lighter.
And they're like, well, you don't have enough fat on
your body to do and I'm like, what are you serious?
It is that a thing? Can you like take it
from my thighs or something, you know, But they did,
you know, look at other plans. But I don't think

(48:18):
anyone thought of no, let me say this at the time,
having metastatic disease and being in treatment, and definitely I'm
not sure if the connection was made with what happens
to Tijuana if she gets these implants like this was
this general warning, this general side effect list, this general thing.

(48:42):
What happens to Tijuana who has had a serious life
threatening recurrence, who has also she's on chemotherapy indefinitely, She's
on blood thinners because I had a DBT, because I
have the port in my arm which caused the blood
clot so more blood dinners for the rest of my life,
as long as I have this port in my arm.

(49:04):
So what happens to Tijuana? And I think that's the
piece that was missing for me when I was not
told about this illness, because you didn't think about me
and my individual situation and circumstance and the risks that
will happen to me, not in general for women, but

(49:24):
to me, And and that's very unfortunate. Fine, both Eden
and Tawana are examples of women who are vibrant and
strong and fortunate to be reckoned with. You are in
great company, Kristen. These women are definitely your tribe. They

(49:45):
are my tribe and proof that this disease has negative
impacts but does not tear us down. These women are
strong and a testimony to how diverse yet similar and
determine this community is Christine. From Harlem to Hollywood. I
have met women who are uniting for this cause, and

(50:06):
for many of us, the most cathartic moment is hearing
that the disease is recognized and the dogma that plastic
surgeons were being taught, specifically that b I I is
not real and breast implants are safe, was what was
holding us back, really feeling like we weren't being believed.
But now, thanks to millions of women who bravely shared

(50:27):
their stories, not only did the FDA recognize b I I,
but they're making some changes that we all know would
have saved many of us from this disease. Christ and
let's talk about impact. The FDA issued some great news
this past week on October they mandated the black box warnings.

(50:47):
Now that means there is a warning on the box
containing implants um It also means that the prescribing doctor
has to review a checklist so that the patient has
full disclosure regarding the risks. They include a rupture screening recommendation,

(51:07):
and they have an ingredients list and a device card
which hopefully assists should those implants ever be recalled or
you know, when they're recalled. Now, we have a link
to the announcement with all the particulars on the sick
tities dot com website on the resources page. Absolutely, and

(51:28):
there were some more recalls this week, and this is
a great first step. But hopefully this means that doctors
give people the full disclosure as to the entire cost
of the implants, specifically the financial and the physical risks
as well as the emotional impact implants can have. Also,
there are some amazing people working to get the Medical

(51:51):
Device Safety Act back in front of Congress, But until then,
women are the full disclosure and their stories are saving lives.
Only need to understand the full scope of this disease
and the PTSD. Many patients have given the diagnostic and
treatment process they went through totally well. Today, I learned
that in order to survive, you have to fight the

(52:13):
system that does not know how to serve you, and
regardless of what obstacles you face, follow your instinct. These
women did and it is paying off. You have to
be your own best advocate. We cannot say this enough.
You have to be your own best advocate, and don't
let other people tell you how you're feeling, because they
can totally hijack your sense of self. Yes, and the

(52:36):
emotional impact can be the greatest barrier. You obviously need
to avoid shame and guilt, and the key thing that
leads to healing is finding the serenity in the journey,
knowing what we can control and what we can't. We
need to embrace the situation as it is an attack
the problem, not the people. Remember education is most empowering

(52:58):
driving change. I think that when women share their stories
it's what changes things. I was raised that you don't
challenge authority like doctors, et cetera. And this disease has
made me empower myself in all areas of my life,
and raising awareness seems to be the best medicine exactly.
And one of the key steps these women took was
to ask for help. They did not accept that this

(53:21):
was their fault, and they provided their doctor with the
facts and thank god they had doctors that helped him
avoid the shame Sparrow. Yes, it's so important to remember
that we've been through a chronic, long term illness and
it takes time to heal, and it's important to recognize
the toilet takes on you and your emotions and take
time not to just heal physically, but also learn what

(53:43):
it takes to overcome the depression, anxiety, anger, and fear
that we all experience. For me, it was just important
to be okay, not being okay. I think. I hope
you know you can tell me anything. I'm always here
for you if you needs somebody to talk to or
shoulders and done. I do. And I'm lucky to have
gathered a kind group of family and friends who can

(54:04):
help me when times are bleak. Those are the times
we really need to be able to reach out and
find this the part we need. It's not easy when
things aren't going great together. We are not alone. We
are not alone. Close to the Chest with Kristen and
Christine has been brought to you by b Noble Media

(54:24):
Group and I Heart Radio. A very special thanks to
our guests Eating Sassoon and Reverend Tajuanna Davis. You can
find both women on Instagram. Eden is at Eaton Sassoon
which is at e d e N s A S
s o o N, and Reverend Tajuanna Davis is at

(54:45):
rev dot ms dot t. That's at r e V
dot ms dot t e E. Now I'd like to
share some gratitude, A very special thanks to I Heart Radio,
to our Parker and her I Heart Radio marketing team,
and a big big thanks to our executive producer, Ramsey Young.

(55:05):
If you or someone you know would like to know
more about breast and plant illness, please visit sick titties
dot com. That's s i c K T I T
t i e s dot com. Also, please follow us
on Instagram at sick dot Titties and at b Noble
Art that's b n O B l e A r T.

(55:28):
And we would also love to have you join our
Facebook page at b Noble on B I I and
please remember you're not alone. Together, we can beat this.
The views and opinions expressed are solely those of the
podcast author or individuals participating in the podcast, and do
not represent the opinions of our Heart Media or its employees.

(55:49):
This podcast should not be used as medical advice, mental
health advice, mental health counseling or therapy, or as imparting
any health care recommendations at all. Individuals are advised to
seek in the pendant medical counseling, advice, and or therapy
from a competent healthcare professional with respect to any medical condition,
mental health issues, health inquiry, or matter, including matters discussed

(56:12):
on this podcast. Close to the Chest with Kristen and
Christine is a production of I Heart Radio and produced
in our studios located in Atlanta, Georgia. For more podcasts
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