November 17, 2021 • 55 mins
You’ve finally had your implants out. How long will it take for your body to heal itself? What should you expect the next step of your journey to look like? Meet survivors thriving and get tips key to recovery!
Special Guests: Jennifer Shultz (IG: @jennifershultzstyle) and Dr. Amanda Savage Brown (IG: @dr.amandasavagebrown). Find out more about BRITE™ Insiders at www.amandasavagebrown.com Follow us on Instagram: Kristin - @kristin_e_nobles and Christine on Twitter - @CMTorres1017 For more information: www.sicktitties.com
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Close to the Chest with Kristin and Christine is brought
to you by My Heart Radio. My name is Kristin
Nobles and today is November sixteenth. This week's episode is
ironically recovery. That is the part of the process I
am knee deep in right now. When I set out
to get treated, it was really important to me to
(00:21):
come up with a plan to not only physically recover
from the disease, but I knew I had huge emotional
scars I had to deal with. And lastly, my hope
was that financially I would be able to get back
on my feet. Physically, I for the rest of my
life will be left with conditions and diseases that need
to be managed and cannot be cured, and that's sad.
(00:41):
But at the same time, I have symptoms that can
be eased and a recovery process ahead of me where
I know life will get better. I've seen so many
women survive and thrive and I so desperately want to
be part of that community, and to do that I
have to do emotional work as well. The shame and
guilt that I have carried for years with this dis ease,
thinking it was my fault blame me myself because I
(01:03):
couldn't afford treatment at times. It really affected the relationship
I have with myself as well as the relationship I
have with other people. I have severe PTSD from this disease,
and I work every day to manage that, the anxiety,
the depression, the anger. But I'm doing what I need
to do to make sure I overcome that. And finding
the right psychological and emotional support for me was key.
(01:23):
And lastly, financially, so many women I talked to and
myself have nearly been bankrupted by this disease. I don't
know how much I've spent over the last twenty years,
but I know it's all I had. Being a chronically
ill single mother managing a disease that wasn't yet named
during a pre existing condition period nearly bankrupted me. Then
(01:45):
I got coverage and I started to go through the
process and met all of the specialists and experts, and
it took years to diagnose me. All those copays, all
that money spent, and I arrived at this place where
I felt helpless emotionally, physically and financially. And recovery I'm
learning is unique to each of us, so I encourage
anyone out there in the recovery process, to be kind
(02:08):
to yourself, take your time, pay attention to your body,
because I'm currently going back into the hospital and it's
not easy, but I'm not giving up because I know
together we are not alone. The sin and then question
dogs walk into the room, heads turning on and down. Fine,
(02:38):
So this episode is all about recovery, and Kristen, you're
still in the relatively early stage of that journey. We've
already heard from many women who are in various stages
of their recovery and from where I sit, and the
only thing you all have in common is the immediate
symptom relief you've felt after having the implants out. Yes, Chris,
and every patient's journey is unique. Each of our bodies
(03:01):
are unique, and the most important thing that we can
do is get these implants safely out of our bodies.
That sounds simple, however, it took me years to get
a doctor to help and thank god that's now changing. However,
it's not just the X plant. There is a long
healing process that's physical, healing, mentally, getting yourself back and financially,
(03:23):
and that will also be unique for each person in patient. Christen,
please explain to our listeners about your most recent adventures
and explanting. What have you been suffering through these past
few weeks. I don't even know where to start. Um,
you know, First, I want to say I'm very grateful
to have these silicon bombs out of my body, because
I did feel some just immediate relief. And I'm really
(03:46):
grateful that I found a doctor who took insurance and
really cares. And as much as I'm glad they're out,
as it took two years to get here, I have
to confess when I first saw myself in the mirror,
I was horrified. I cried and said out on the floor,
and I had to dig pretty deep and temper my
fear of rejection and judgment and people not wanting me.
Knowing my original goal, I want to feel better, so
(04:09):
I focus on feeling healthy, not my appearance for now,
which is hard for me. And I definitely know I
will never miss the way they made me feel. But
in reality, I've been struggling, you know, emotionally, physically and
financially through this process. Well, Christian, is your friend Watching
you struggle or hurts my heart? I wish I could help.
(04:29):
I feel helpless. I imagine most people love b I
patients feel that way. It is, and I fear putting
that burden on people as a patient, but that's not reality.
You know. So many people have stepped in even when
I wouldn't ask for help and been there for me,
from walking my dogs to driving me to doctor's appointments,
to helping with food and natural remedies. Is and I'm sad.
(04:53):
You know that my health is not great and I'm
still suffering from several symptoms and diseases. I suffered day
lee from issues with my thyroid as you mentioned, I'm
having to go into back surgery and I'm only six
weeks out, and six weeks out, I'm only two days
out of the hospital because a week ago on my
left breast blew up and look bigger than it did
(05:15):
with the implant, and at first I thought it was positive,
thinking like my move came back because I imagined it.
But my doctor took one look at the photos, took
immediate action, hospitalized me, and now I have drainage tubes
in and that's just one of my issues. You know,
my lymph nodes are huge and the back surgery, as
we mentioned, so walking is almost impossible, and I feel,
(05:39):
you know, handicap in some way, and I'm scared, but
I'm still determined to figure this out and take one
procedure at a time. I hope that you're hopeful. I am.
You just skimmed a little bit over your back issues.
So let's touch on that you have a fracture in
your lower vertebrae with bulging disks and stenosis, and that's
a lot. Were scheduled to have surgery with to help
(06:02):
with that today, weren't you? Yes? But unfortunately I need
to heal from what's going on in my breast first,
and that's happened a lot in my journey where I
had a procedure scheduled, but then a subcondition came up
that pushed things out. And that's a really frustrating part
of this recovery process is how do you balance conditions
(06:23):
from symptoms and how do you recover? And it just
gets overwhelming. It seems like almost one step forward, two
steps back. Hey, my setbacks will be comebacks. I really
wish your recovery was going smoothly for you, But I
really do think that by sharing your story, our listeners
can gain some insight so that they can manage their expectations.
(06:44):
It's not an overnight care. I know. I thought I
would immediately feel better, and then I got great advice
from someone who told me to document my history and
they had me separate my diseases and my symptoms, and
it allowed me to take a look at what it
can fix, know what will require lifetime management so I
can plan for my care. You know, the degregation in
(07:05):
my spine has been shocking and painful, and honestly, lately
I cry a lot because I feel helpless and ashamed
at how much help I need. It's to the point
where every system and my body is affected. And between
going to emergency rooms, you pay co pay, testing being
ordered more co pays, then you get hospitalized and are
(07:26):
left with this big deductible in This matrix goes on
and on and so sometimes I feel like I'm financially overwhelmed.
But the emotional roller coaster is harder than financial issues
or even the physical pain we're going through. Well, if
you are looking for some kind of support, and I
think you need to look no further than today's gifts.
Our first guest we're speaking with is a therapist that
(07:48):
you know and trust. She is a b AI survivor
as well, Doctor Amanda Savage Brown, Yes, and I'm so
excited to speak with her. Amanda takes a behavioral approach
to therapy and it's been helping so many women with
b I I. She specializes in acceptance and commitment therapy,
which really helps women live with a mindful self acceptance
(08:11):
and pursue values guided change, and I look forward to
hearing her strategy to make everyone future is bright. I
see what you did there. We're so blessed to have
you today because this episode is obviously it's about recovery,
(08:34):
and I think that's something that is a very broad
term when we talk about breast implant illness and so,
as not only a licensed psychotherapist but also a BII survivor,
I wondered if we could start by you just sharing
with the listeners what recovery means to you and why
you think it's so important to talk about it. Yeah,
I mean, and I definitely want to answer that from
(08:56):
both the personal perspective and then what I serve as
a as a therapist kind of watching women and working
with women going through this. So you know, there's so
much information out there about you know, what to expect
when explanting, and um, what we need to buy and
you know, how can we safely plan for explant and
(09:19):
all of that is wonderful, and obviously we need to
use that to help us know what's possible, like what
is all in the realm of possibility, and then to
kind of help us get prepared. And then where I
kind of caution my clients and this kind of pulls
in a bit of my personal experience is I think
(09:40):
it's really important for us to not set expectations for
our body and our recovery based on what happens to
other people. UM. For example, I was told that because
my implants were above the muscle, that I was going
to have this much easier surgery. UM, I was going
(10:01):
to have a much briefer recovery. And you know, honestly
I was banking on that, and UM, that didn't end
up being the case for me. I had very very
thick calcified capsules UM that the doctor said had tentacles
kind of growing away from the capsules UM, and they
(10:22):
were pinching nerves and it was just so much more
involved surgery. What you said about the nerves and it
being an involved surgery. Every person is different and it
is major surgery. I'm sixteen days post X plant, and
the emotional feelings I felt, like you said, to plan
for that recovery isn't just the physical side. I think
(10:43):
for me, my physical recovery has been much. I don't
want to say easy, because it's not been easy, but
my emotional recovery is something that I didn't know what
to expect, like you just said, and I think we
do feel a lot of pressure now that we're sharing
our stories. Also to recad ever, you know, like you
do from pregnancy, you want to recover fast, you want
to do it best, and you know, and it's is
(11:05):
so not that way, like it's unique to each person.
I know that I have some common feelings, but they
come all over the place. That's exactly what what I
was gonna say is that, you know, what I see
is if we set expectations that in you know, finishing
up kind of on that physical side, like we're gonna
wake up and we're gonna feel better. The brain fog
(11:27):
is gonna be gone. You know, we're gonna breathe, the
weight's gonna melt off when and if that doesn't it's
great when that happens, But when it doesn't happen, what
happens to the woman experiencing that is that self doubt
gets amplified, the questioning gets amplified, the comparative thinking, and
then that drives more suffering, which interferes with the recovery.
(11:49):
And then you just raised what to me is the
is an incredibly important point, which is that recovery isn't
just physical. Like these journeys, we we start on them
because of stuff that's pushing us around in our head,
in our heart as women's who women who grow up
in the breast obsess society. And so when we explant,
(12:11):
it removes problematic implants from our body, but it doesn't
remove us from the problematic messaging around our body. And
so we are left with a tremendous amount of inner
work that needs to happen. And that's something I'm very
passionate about bringing to the community. Is you know, actual
(12:32):
support for the psychosocial aspect of breast implant removal b
I I and explant recovery. No, You're absolutely spot on there,
because I think the idea of recovery and what it
means to someone is really important. So what is like
a recovered person mean to a licensed psychotherapist? Gosh, you know,
(12:56):
I think it depends on her goals going into the surgery,
and so you know, some of us are just like,
I want to get these implants out and I'm going
to get back and reclaim my body. Um, and then
like what you said, it's I think that a lot
of us end up really surprised to find that our
(13:18):
recovery actually ends up being a much more holistic process.
And so for me, as a therapist looking at it,
I would define recovery as a person who's moving forward
after this surgery and she can age in a youth
obsessed society. She can live with post explant rests, She
(13:40):
can make decisions for her body and her health and
her well being without being so pushed around by all
the toxic messaging, without being like controlled, kind of like
a marionette by those old familiar beliefs that we all
just learn as young women growing up in our culture.
(14:01):
You know. So that's how I would define fully recovered,
is that you can kind of take the the hidden
opportunity with this journey to reclaim not just your body,
but also your mind and then move forward and really
being the driver's seat from that point forward. And and
that sounds simple, and I really acknowledge that it's a
(14:24):
lot of work. It really is, and it's an ongoing
process too. You know. It's funny because I felt like,
if I'm being really, really honest, I felt like a fraud.
So I got breast in plants um before I made
a career change. So originally, I um got a PhD
in genetics, and I worked as a scientist for the
(14:45):
United States Public Health Service and I did that for
you know, over a decade, and then I you know,
I would want it to be truer to myself and
I wanted to work with people one on one. So
then I went back to graduate school and I got
breast in plants. But before I really really started doing
a lot of that inner work and started kind of
reclaiming myself. So i'd sit there helping women. I specialize
(15:08):
in women's self acceptance. So I would sit there and
feel like a fraud because I was behind these two
implants that I knew I didn't want. I absolutely didn't
want to age with implants. I didn't want the like
threat of potential future surgeries hanging over my body, and
so I knew I didn't want them, and yet I
(15:31):
wasn't taking the values guided action to get them out.
I was kind of putting it off out of fear
um and then going through the whole process and you know,
my appearance changed, everything changed, you know, and needing to
be able to be open about that and talk about that,
because I think it's really important for us as women
(15:53):
to be real with each other and to normalize like, look,
I did this just like millions of other of women
have done this to our bodies for all of these reasons,
and we can make decisions moving forward to like repair
that inside and out. So I've tried to be really
transparent with my clients about what's going on, and then
(16:17):
when I'm working the clients who share the b I
I experience or explant, it's it's just incredibly helpful because
women are wired to seek connection with other women who
share and know their distress. That's just how we work.
So I think it's been very, very helpful. But you
just said they're about being able to empathize with someone
(16:40):
who's gone through this, you know, Chris, and I talked
to survivors and thrivers and family members that this journey
you speak of that's so important that right now I'm
going through. It's not pretty. You know. I spend more
time on my bathroom floor than i'd like to share, crying,
but I do notice it's this moment of relief and
release and like you said, connecting to this community of
(17:03):
women there, all of a sudden, I feel like I
belong again, where prior I felt really alone and on
the outside and misunderstood and marginalized. And I just wondered
for you, in the role of mental health, when you're
working with women like us, do you see um because
for me there was major depression and I think the
(17:24):
mental side of the disease took a great toll on
my self, talk, my self, perception, my self value, And
it's almost like I'm rebuilding myself and how I feel
about myself. Is this normal? Yeah? You know? And that's
the frustrating thing about this is that the population isn't
(17:45):
being studied in this respect, right, So we can't with
any confidence say you know that anxiety is observed in patients,
or you know, depressive episodes occur, and we but we
do know that that is the experience, you know. And
then the thing that really really you know, emboldened me
(18:11):
and passioned me to start, you know, to literally completely
shift my practice to specialize in this is the way
that women with b I I what I saw in
terms of how they were being treated. It was shocking
to me when I was going through the explant process,
in the gas lighting, the dismissiveness, the minimizing. It it's
(18:37):
it's like fuel to a fire that is already burning
her up on the inside. And it was really really
upsetting to me to see that. And so we're already
struggling with anxiety that I believe is driven by you know,
a lot of complex things that are being disrupted in
(18:58):
our body that we don't have the studies yet to
really say we understand the pathology behind all of that,
but we've already got this like chemically derived anxiety that's
happening to us. We have this feeling of depression or hopelessness,
this fatigue that leads us to feel like we've completely
(19:19):
lost touch with ourselves, any hope of living the life
that we thought that we were going to live. And
then when you try to help yourself, you're met with controversy, confusion,
and dismissiveness. It's it's really really problematic. And and while
it's wonderful and amazing that there's so many resources that
(19:41):
can help us with the physical side of recovery, like
what you just said about being on your bathroom floor,
more than you care to admit, I know that that
is playing out as we speak right now. That's playing
out for probably I don't know how many women around
the world, you know. And that is what's inspiring me
to do the work that I'm doing. Is I want
(20:01):
women when they're on their bathroom floor, I want them
to feel like they know what to do for themselves,
and I want them to be able to do things
for themselves that ends up helping them heal and recover
in ways that they'll emerge from this. I always think
of like, um, a phoenix rising from ashes, you know,
(20:23):
And I want women to be able to emerge from this,
you know, stronger and more resilient than we go into it.
And I know it's possible because I've seen it happen.
Why is that so hard for women? Why is it
so hard for women to just be kind? Or so?
I know it is, And and I think back, like,
how many of us? I'm sure that if we were
(20:43):
in a room right now with an auditorium filled with
women with b I I and women with breast implants,
and we said, how many of you have been told
to just just learn to love yourself? Just accept yourself?
Like all of our hands would go flying up in
the air. And then if we said how many of
you know how to do that, most of the hands
would go down because we don't know how to do that.
(21:06):
We were so wonderful and loving and caring to others,
and and we're so compassionate to others, and it doesn't
occur to us to treat ourselves the way that we
would treat someone that we love. And that's part of
the work that I do with women, and that's part
of the transformation, is getting her to see that just
(21:27):
as she would treat her mother, her sister, her daughter,
her friend, somebody she loved or cared about, that she
can do those same things for herself. And I believe
that to fully recover from this, that we have to
do that. And you'll hear these beautiful stories of women,
And in my own story, you know, a big turning
(21:48):
point for me is when and I get emotional talking
about this, but it's when I stopped viewing my post
explant aesthetics as something at needed to be fixed, something
that was so upsetting, and and I started responding to
it the way that I would if it was on
(22:10):
my daughter's body. And everything changed for me. And I
started being gentle, I started being loving, I started being caring,
and it changed my relationship with myself. Well, you just
hit on the head there, because I think for a
lot of us, first and formost self sacrifice. We are
raised in a culture where you know, we embrace the
(22:32):
suck we sacrifice, we do for others, and that makes
us a an amazing woman. And I think part of
this new generation of acceptance and self talk is that,
you know, to quote my Angelo, if you can't love yourself,
who can you love? And I think, like you said,
it's not that easy. It's something Then in that moment
when we make the decision to actually go through an
(22:54):
ex plant, you make that first choice of yourself over
everything else. That's this belief system that led you to
get the implants in the first place. So what would
you say to that woman out there that's at the
point where she's choosing to have an explant. We are
scared because we're not sure what life is going to
(23:15):
be like, what would you say to that woman? Is
something we can lean on as one of those tools
to get us through that really fearful moment, because I
know it's scary for a lot of us to choose recovery. Absolutely,
so I think it comes down to you've got to
know your why and you've got to hold it really
(23:35):
really close to your chest. And so I work from
a premise of acceptance and commitment therapy or acceptance and
commitment training, depending on what I'm doing in a big
part of acceptance and commitment therapy is values guided action,
and so it's it's really like a two step thing.
(23:56):
One no and really really embrace the are you doing
this for health? Are you doing this for another value
that you hold? Not everybody x plants because of b
I I. Some women x plant because they're reclaiming their
mind from you know, an abusive partner who ridiculed her
about her body. You know. Some women are are doing
(24:19):
it because they're making a values aligned to move with
natural organic living. So there's different reasons. But whatever yours is,
really know it and like pull it into your heart
and use that as like and like the north on
a on a compass, use that to guide your actions
(24:39):
as you move toward and through X plant. Yeah, so
one of the things that I'll do is I'll help
women literally know like values are basically like adverbs, they
describe your quality of action. So do you want to
treat yourself compassionately, gently, kindly, love, bingly, respectfully, healthfully, whatever
(25:04):
that is for you? And then literally pretend that you're
making a compass um and and and put those things.
And you know, we use a compass when we've lost
our way, right, and we pulled out so that it
helps us find where we're going. So in that moment,
you just described where you're looking in the mirror, and
it's very distressing. It's one of the things you do
(25:25):
is you pull out that compass and you look at
it and you say, Okay, well, I really care about
treating myself lovingly, or I really care about treating myself respectfully,
or I really care about treating myself kindly, And then
you just ask what could I do? Is there something
I need to say to myself or stop saying to myself?
(25:46):
Is there a way that I need to touch myself.
Is there should I should I rest my hand in
my heart? You know? Is there something that I can
do that is values guided as opposed to fear guided
as a pose to being driven by all that baggage.
That's very, very real. Which brings me to the second thing,
(26:07):
or another important thing, is in those moments, we've got
to show up for the part of us that's greeting,
and we've got to show up for the part of
us that's afraid. Right. And I hear so many women
on these journeys. I hear them say, I did this
to myself. I can't be angry. I did this to myself.
I can't That's not true. You don't have to choose.
(26:31):
It isn't all or nothing. I just want to thank
you so much because being able to talk to someone
you know with your not only education but experience, which
I think is the combination that really creates true solutions,
and your willingness to bring this issue to the forefront
of your community and to continue learning is key because
acknowledging the emotional impact of breast implant illness and the
(26:53):
recovery is something, like you said, is not necessarily talked
about enough because it's a physical process for them. And
I think Christine and I can you know, just we're
so grateful to bring this to the listeners attention, and
also for me to have you and my tool kit
as I go forward. It's priceless because I didn't know
what to expect, and now that I'm going through it,
(27:16):
I know it's not only a unique journey, but it's
one that requires this community support to get through. And
I think having you in the community is a blessing.
It's an opportunity for us to all grow and the
fact that you're doing this work is such an inspiration
to me. This this work is my honor. Um I.
Just I'm very very honored to be doing the work.
(27:39):
Um I. I look at this whole situation and how
we get into this and how we get ourselves out
of it. And I I feel like the problem with
problematic rest implants and b I I is a global
(27:59):
women health issue, and you know, being a part of
the solution, I'd like to try to help women. You know,
just look at this lifelong quest for better breasts that
we're all pursuing and kind of step back from it
and get in control of it rather than having it
(28:23):
push us around, you know, because we live in a
time right now where we pursue surgery and put these
bags in our body that lead to illness or problems
or uncomfortable situations, and so being able to kind of
help women, I call it busting the quest for better breasts,
(28:46):
you know, So trying to help women bust that quest
is is it's a proactive kind of way to help
with this whole journey that you know, our generation and
the one for us and the one immediately after us.
You know, we're all in this together. Um, but we've
got it's like a societal obligation to try to turn
(29:09):
this around so that the minds of women are liberated,
literally empowered, so that we don't keep believing these things
and making these choices that hurt our bodies. Fine, I'm fine. Wow, Kristen,
(29:39):
she has a lot of compassion and understanding for women.
I mean, if I were going through all of this,
I would definitely want to have someone like her holding
my hand to help heal my heart. Yes, she is
a secret weapon of sorts and so dedicated to this community.
Not only has she been very kind and helpful, but
she has a tactical plan and a methodology she designed
(30:00):
from experience. Well, you've been very lucky. You've met some
very incredibly accomplished and generous people along your journey. Yes,
and our next guest is also so giving. Jennifer Schultz
has been an advocate to many of us, including me.
She's empowering women to have faith in their bodies and
as a coach and mentor for women walking through b
i I, her mission is to help them from having
(30:23):
an identity of being sick to an identity of being
healed and healthy with confidence, community, faith, and fashion. Today,
we're so excited to have a dear friend, advocate, colleague,
and someone who has paved the way for the rest
of us in the b i I space. My friend
(30:45):
Jennifer Schultz, who is also a colleague, an advocate and educator,
a speaker, an entrepreneur, and someone who is creatively not
only used fashion and your whole heart to help our community,
but you've really become an advocate helping those of us
recover from the disease, us from diagnostic through treatment. So,
first and foremost, Jennifer, do you mind sharing a bit
with our listeners your experience with b I I, and
(31:08):
how you got involved in this tragic yet sisterhood of
a cause. Hi. Yes, Well, first of all, I just
want to say thank you so much for inviting me
and to be on your podcast. I feel so incredibly honored,
UM and grateful. So let's see, I got sick, like
so many of us women do, and I started feeling
fatigue and brain fog and and I literally thought it
(31:31):
was just because I was working so much. And you know,
we all seemed to put that the blame on that. Oh,
it's I'm busy with the kids and work and this
and that and the other thing. And my illness just
never kept getting better. And I kept going to doctors
after doctors, treatments after treatments. I spent literally over a
hundred fifty thousand dollars during the four and a half
years that I was sick. And I was told I
(31:53):
was fine. I was told my cbcs all came back normal.
I was told that I was depressed. I was told
that after I told the doctor I had vertigo, he
told me I had vertigo. Um. I was told all
kinds of nonsense, right, And but I knew in my
gut that something was not right. I just knew it.
(32:15):
I never thought it was my implants though, until one
of my girlfriends said to me, her name is Brenda.
She said, I think your implants are making you sick.
And I did not want to receive that at all,
because like you, I mean, like who wants to think
their implants are making them sick. So at that point
(32:35):
I started kind of looking around, but honestly, I started
praying and asking God to show me if it were
my implants, and that is when it just like he
just opened the doors, and that's when I really knew, Okay,
it's my implants. And that's kind of how it all started.
So I was sick for and half years found out
it was my implants. Actually went to a kinesiologist because
(32:57):
again I prayed, and God put a woman in in
front of me at church and she had the same illness,
and she said, you have to go see doctor Virgil
because he's the one that told me I had breast
in my illness. He's a kinesiologist. And I was like, kinesiologist,
what the heck? I don't get that. I've been to
all these other doctors and a kinesiologist is going to
(33:17):
tell me. And instantly when I went to see him.
He did muscle testing on me. He said, oh, I
didn't even tell him what was going on. He said,
your implants are making you so sick. Can you tell
us what a kinesiologist is. Yeah, kinesiologist basically is a
natural past chiropractic doctor, so he um, he does chiropractic
(33:38):
type of work, but also he does a lot of
stuff and muscle testing. And I'm a huge believer in
muscle testing because I've seen at work on other people.
So when I went to him, I just said, yeah,
my friend Kim told me to come here and see you.
I've been sick with you know, sick for four and
a half years. I don't know what's going on. She
thinks you can help me. So he started. He literally
(33:59):
put um silicone like a little bottle of silicone in
or sailing. I can't I think it was a silicone
in my hand. It was silicone. And he started muscle
testing me and I literally was failing the test. And
he said, oh, yeah, you are you're He said you
have implants. I said, yes, I do. He said they
(34:20):
are completely like destroying your body, said, your body is
starting to fall apart and like shut down his words,
it's like a fire inside your body is how I've
heard a lot of women explain it. And then talking
to you, the fact that you were able to see
a kinesiologist. What's so fascinating to me is today I
have this horrible tremor and it started and I, you know,
(34:41):
message my doctor before the podcast. And one of the
things in terms of diagnosis and recovery is a lot
of times we're chasing the symptoms versus the root cause,
and you can get sent to all these specialists. So
it's interesting that you found a quarterback who took the
initiative and then for you, it was really like this
radical awakening is kind of what I'm hearing. Oh yeah, completely,
(35:02):
especially because I literally got on my knees. It's like, God,
show me what's wrong with me. I can't do this anymore.
I mean I literally cried out to him. And then
like that Sundays when I met Kim, she normally didn't
even go to my church, um, and then I got
in with Dr Virsil. It just started happening so quickly,
and even after he told me, I felt like I
(35:23):
was sucker punched. I remember going to the beach and
I was like, Okay, I get it. It's the implants.
And like you said, the doctors aren't looking for the
root cause, and there is a root cause, and for
me it was the implants and for whatever reason that
trauma which I will be praying for you on that later,
(35:44):
there's a root cause for that and it's probably the implants. So, Jennifer,
do you mind sharing a bit with the listeners what
you went through when you were deciding to go through
X plants and the process of meeting with the doctor
in having the procedure. Yeah, I think. Um, So what
I was going through at that time was a state
of accepting that it was my implants number one, and
(36:09):
then dealing with the fact I have to have surgery
because no one wants to have surgery. I don't even
like having an ivy second more, and so that part
dis grossed me. So I was going through all the
mental stuff of like, oh, what does all this mean?
And who's going to take care of me? I mean,
all these thoughts start going through your head. So then
going to the surgeon and sitting down with him and
(36:30):
him telling me that I was number one a classic
case and that all the symptoms I've had so many
women have. He did say that my body was shutting down,
just like my knesiologists said. He also said that I
was not a candidate for fat transfer because I was
(36:51):
too sick. He said, if I even tried to do
a fat transfer on you, because my doctor does not
put implants back in because he's totally against it. So
he said, if I even tried to do a fat
transfer with you, um, it's gonna it won't work because
your body is too sick. It will instantly reject it.
So he said, we will discuss it again at a
year's time, if that's you know what your heart's desire. Jennifer,
(37:12):
what you just pointed out there. As a b I
I coach, had I known you three years ago, I
unfortunately did not have a doctor who gave me that
great advice. I made the decision to reimplant implants, So
I ended up having that experience of going from a
bad disease to overnight just decimated. And so as a
b I I coach, it sounds like all these little
(37:32):
tips you picked up you're able to save people. This
quote critical healing time, because that was a big decision
not to reconstruct right away It's not easy to do that, right.
I would love to say that when I speak this
out to people, they instantly say, Okay, I'm not going
to get implants again, because I actually have someone I
was working with who has a lot of the symptoms,
(37:55):
but she ended up putting implants back in her even
though I highly urged her not to, but she was
not willing to, you know, like learn how to have
the confidence of her own identity. So I know that
not everyone's going to listen to me or you for
that matter. All we can do is pray and hope
(38:16):
that we get our message out there and that more
women like think, Okay, if all these women around here
are going through this, then maybe I need to like
do some more research. Maybe I need to consider like
like just being natural, being organic, well and on the mindset.
For me. Initially, how Christine and I got involved is
when I had my implants done the second time during
(38:39):
what I thought was my treatment. When the recall happened,
I was very angry, you know, there was and still
as a part of me that was mad. But then,
like all of us, I think the warrior becomes that
we want to do something about this. And so when
raising awareness. I reached out to Christine and I. You know,
we've done a lot of research, and I think there's
this big reception out there that we don't want anybody
(39:02):
to have implants, et cetera. And one of the most
important things is that all of us honor it's your body,
your choice, but you really need full disclosure. And so
in terms of your recovery and what I've heard you
say you went through, there was a lot of things
we were not told when I got the implants. One
of my questions to you was, all of these symptoms
you've mentioned. Now they have something called the warning. You
(39:22):
know that the FDA is issued that's inside the box.
And we're all lobbying for full disclosure. We all want
people to be told the financial, emotional, and physical risks
of implants. But as you deliver that information to women,
are most of them shocked that this is even the thing.
Funds I meet people every day, They're like, what this is?
(39:43):
This is? This was the thing? Like, yes, I still
blown away with how many people, men and women are
blown away when I tell them, yeah, the implants made
me sick. And here's the deal. I notice how I
say the implants because I don't. They're not mine anymore.
I don't claim them. They're not mine. I don't own
that they're they're gone. So I yes, people are shocked.
(40:06):
They don't know that this is happening worldwide. Women, hundreds
of thousands of women are being affected by this. And
what's happening is then it's affecting their family, then it's
affecting their dreams, then it's affecting their life. So again,
going back to what you were saying, how do people
deal with this and how we've got to change the
way we think once we get the implants taken out,
(40:27):
so therefore we can go back to what God has
called us to do. Everyone's different. I don't know what
you know. There's different people on here, and maybe they've
been called to be a teacher or a mom, or
a lawyer or an entrepreneur um whatever that looks like
for them. This illness puts like almost like a hold
on us. But if we become warriors and we fight,
(40:49):
we fight to stay healthy, to stay healed, and and
then we go after our dreams, it's amazing what what
will happen? And I think to what you talk about, Jennifer,
that's still important. It's the financial side. You brought this up,
and I think one of the third biggest points for
women is that Number one, there's solutions available, there's organizations
out there, but financially we're I was quoted everything from
(41:13):
eight thousand dollars to fifty tho dollars, And I've really
read and we've been talking a lot about there being
a standard of care and so to coach people economically
on how to get through this. This is probably the
epitome of creative financing. There's some insurance tricks and people
you know that are more likely to cover. So the
financial barrier, what are your tips on that is like
(41:34):
kind of the third misconception because I think that's a
really big barrier to women getting treated that it's too
expensive or they can't. Yeah. I hear a lot of
people say, oh my gosh, it was only this amount
to put him in, but it was this amount to
take them out. And I'm like, dude, you were excited
to get him in. You found the money to put
him in, Now find the money to get him out. Okay,
that's my normal thought process because I'm I'm kind of
(41:54):
a bottom line type of person. So again, I can't
say that to some people because they can't handle hearing that.
But I think if women recognize how excited they were
to get them put in and how they found the money,
we will find the money to get them taken out.
I found the money to get them taken out. I didn't.
I didn't have a clue. So for me, literally, I
(42:17):
went through my insurance. They were not cooked. They were
not They wanted you know what, you know where my
insurance wanted to send me to to a hand surgeon.
I'm like a hand surgeon. He's like, he doesn't know
what he So you've got to be willing to like
know that. Okay, if I want to find the money,
I'm gonna I'm gonna find the money. So here's what
happened with me. And I'm being full on authentic. I
(42:38):
had gone through all my savings. I'm like, how am
I going to come up with this amount? Mine was
around seventeen thousand okay, And again people are like, seventeen thousand,
Oh my gosh. I said, look, I want the best
and I want it done properly. I don't want to
have to go back in for a second surgery. So
this is good for me. Now, my best friend hers
was like, I think ten thousand, holy happy, doing great.
(43:01):
He got it all out, they took pictures, she got
pathology back, all of that kind of stuff. So it
depends on what state you're in, It depends on what city,
It depends on all kinds of what what what you
have done. But these are other nuances that you know.
So when someone reaches out to you as a coach,
you know these brief, nuanced things. And I think that's
amazing because the thing with this and to bring this
(43:23):
kind of full circle is talking to you and listening.
You know, not only have you been through xplant diagnostic,
but you're still in recovery. So for those of us
out there that are listening and are struggling, what you know,
what would you say to women in recovery? How would
you describe it? And do you have a quote that
you'd like to leave them with as inspiration because you
(43:46):
have some amazing ones, Jennifer, I guess what I would
encourage anyone who is going through this? Okay, number one,
don't give up, you are not alone. I would also
encourage you, Um, this is this is a scripture Jeremiah.
For I know the plans I have for you, Plans
to give you a future, plans to give you hope
(44:08):
in a future, plans not to harm you. So I
live by that scripture. I know that God's plans for
me are to give me hope in a future. So
I say that scripture over and over. So I would
encourage anyone if you're struggling or you're having a bad day,
get into scripture and start reading scriptures because the provisions
that God offers us is so much bigger than the
(44:31):
negative stuff. So, for example, if you're dealing with anxiety,
what's the opposite of anxiety, peace? Right? So what if
I start feeling anxiety, I instantly start thinking about, Okay,
peace I need to be. It's a state of peace.
God give me peace. I start praying. You've made this
congregation of women that have come together, that have faith
(44:52):
in each other. There's a big level of trust. And
I think what I'm hearing from you, Jennifer, is that
the key to recovery is to have faith in yourself,
to have faith in the people around you, to like
Christine just said, trust your gut, verify the information, and
find a community that can support you. Because there's so
many amazing communities out there, and I think what you've
(45:12):
done to being not only an advocate, a coach, and entrepreneur,
a fashion stylist, You've given us all solutions that are
not only accessible, but they're real and they're honest, and
they come from this huge heart and empathy. And I
want to thank you for not only the work you
do for others, but for leading by example, because I
think it is very difficult when we're going through this journey.
We want to appear perfect, and you're sharing your experiences
(45:36):
authentically and openly is not only saving lives, but you're
building warriors. And I think through this work, we're not
only going to be able to change the narrative, but
we are going to get full disclosure. And it starts
with those of us sharing what's close to our chest,
which is our story about b I. I well, thank
you for you. I think that what you're able to
(45:56):
do and share for people as incredible. We will leave
a link to your social media ways to get in
touch with you. Um and is there anyone you know
anything you'd like to shout out before you go to
the listeners as resources that you provide your trust. Well,
I would say you You've provide so much information. I
want to thank you for what you're doing because I
know you're still walking through it, and you still have
(46:18):
bad days and you're going through a lot of health issues,
and I just I just like bow down to you
and say thank you for everything you're doing, for not
giving up, for fighting for women, for fighting for this illness,
and and knowing that God has given you such a
bigger purpose and a bigger plan that I don't even think, Honestly,
(46:40):
I don't even think you're aware of. Honestly, I really don't. Um.
It's so humongous. Like literally, I've when I've prayed for you,
I've seen huge, huge things around you. So um, yeah,
your your plans are quite large. So I just want
to say thank you. Look at all of your information
was amazing. Thank you for what you're doing. Christen. She
(47:08):
is so determined, strong, and definitely somebody you want to
have in your life. It is amazing how powerful spirituality
is for the community. No matter what your faith is,
having something that helps you through is really what matters.
It is, Chris. Sharing your story is scary yet necessary,
as these are the testimonies that stave lives since she
began this journey. I love that nothing stands in her way.
(47:31):
And what have you learned listening to these interviews given
where you are on your journey. Definitely first half faith
in your body. That sounds mystical, but it's key regardless
of your denomination. Many survivors share that they lean a
lot on the spiritual community. It was hard for me
to keep faith after all this rejection, but now I
myself even have amazing grace tattooed on my left inner arm,
(47:54):
and I find it interesting how many nurses and doctors
compliment me on it. And then I get to share
my story and why I got the tattoo as a
reminder that I need to have faith and push on
and not give up. Well, what we do know is
that the mind is a very powerful organ and it
sounds like mentally you have to be strong as each
(48:16):
person has their own unique healing process. So finding a
support group is key. I mean, from church to chat rooms.
There are thankfully many options, yes, and the emotional scars
are the hardest for me to heal. I'll bet I'm
glad you found the support. I mean, that is key. However,
let's talk about The second lesson I took away the
(48:38):
recovery process seems to have phases, and that is unique
to each of you. As we've heard, many women have
thyroid issues, on immune issues, and of course B I, A, A, L, C, L,
all these diseases with their own treatments. There are so
many symptoms and diseases that fall under the great umbrella
of breast implant illness. How do you navig need it? Well, Christine,
(49:01):
a very wise man in the entertainment industry, once told
me that life is a series of storms, and the
key to surviving is finding your umbrella. So I took
that advice and I've been working on my umbrella, which
now consists of a full toolkit of experts physical doctors
to psychological support to integrated medicine experts, and working across
(49:23):
disciplines to all these specialists is hard. So the other
thing I did is found the right quarterback. And I
think for anyone that's key. You need someone who can
understand what all of these doctors who focus on just
one part of your body because that's a specialty, say so.
The colon doctors and enter chronologists need to talk to
the hematology doctors to the when you see where I'm going,
(49:45):
I joke that I need the person to manage all
the oologists. Oh my cow, It's like, how do you
keep it all straight? You must have a medical degree
at this point, right web MD. So, Kristen, what was
what is this recovery plan like yours? How much does
it cost you? So far? Everything I mean emotionally clearly
(50:08):
a lot. You know, I have depression, anxiety and really
really hard times physically. You know, I'm left with conditions
and things that will never go away, and financially almost
everything I have. But I've been blessed, you know, to
have friends and people who cared about me to help
me because this disease literally could leave me homeless or
(50:31):
god forbid, I lost my insurance. What would I do?
So it's really important to have a financial plan. It's
part of recovering in know that recovery isn't just surgery
in the two weeks after it could go on because
you have complications. You know, think about what I've spent
being in the hospital for five days recently, and all
the experts I saw, and then all the time I've
(50:52):
missed from work, et cetera. So it's really almost impossible
to quantify this, even when you begin to look at
the opportunity cost right of all the years being sick
versus out there with you making great projects. So for
each person it's different, but in many ways the same,
and the numbers always too much. You know, it extends
us to a place that we never imagined. Well, I mean, Christen,
(51:14):
it seems like the most important thing is that you
need to be able to take the time to be
able to heal. That seems like really the most important
part of it all. I mean, you can be thinking
about all the other stuff, but if you don't take
the time to heal, you're never gonna get better, so
you know, and then it seems like you're stuck on
some kind of a treadmill. It seems like many women
(51:37):
share that, and it's a big barrier to treatment, especially
when it can take you a year more to recover. Absolutely,
you know, women don't want to leave their kids, they
don't want to be out for two weeks, let alone
a year, and it's key to recognize that this is
not a simple process to enter. And honestly, Chris, the
other lesson I learned is that it's something I'm currently
(51:58):
struggling with is. Honestly, that recovery is not a race,
and I think many of us feel disappointed that we're
not healing overnight. You know, I compare it to when
people get pregnant. You see them on the internet three
weeks later and they're like, what baby? And you know,
the type of support people used during recovery, it can
be really expensive and cost prohibitive to many of us.
And I found myself really looking at other patients in
(52:20):
comparing I was at versus where they were at, and
I felt like I was failing, and I really started
to be hard on myself, and you know me, I
wanted to be good at recovery. But then my doctors
reminded me that everybody comes into this with their own
set of conditions and disabilities and symptoms and underlying genetics,
and each journey is different and it's important to remember that,
(52:43):
you know, it's your recovery, and focus on you and
take the time you need. And that's been hard for
me because we have to somehow finance this and we
also want to keep working. But it's important to take
time off and let your body heal. Yeah, you need
to heal, but I mean christ and I think one
of the most important things that we learned from doing
(53:03):
this podcast together is that together we are not alone.
Close to the Chest with Kristen and Christine has been
brought to you by b Noble Media Group and I
Heart Radio. A very special thanks to our guests, dr
Amanda Savage Brown and Jennifer Schultz. To find out more
(53:24):
about dr Amanda Savage Brown, you can find her on
Instagram at dr Amanda Savage Brown. That's at d R
dot A m A N D A s A v
A g E d R O w N. And you
can find out more about her Bright program at www
Amanda Savage Brown dot com and follow Jennifer Schultz on
(53:48):
Instagram at Jennifer Schultz Style. That's at j E n
N I f E R s h u l t
z s t y l E Jennifer Schultz Style. Now,
I'd like to share some gratitude, a very special thanks
to I Heart Radio, to our Parker and her I
(54:09):
Heart Radio marketing team, and a big big thanks to
our executive producer Ramsay Yacht. If you or someone you
know would like to know more about breast and planted illness,
please visit sick titties dot com that's s I c
k t I T t I e s dot com. Also,
please follow us on Instagram at sick dot titties and
(54:31):
at b Noble Art that's b n O B l
e A r T. And we would also love to
have you join our Facebook page at b Noble on
B I I and please remember you're not alone. Together
we can beat this. The views and opinions expressed are
solely those of the podcast author or individuals participating in
(54:53):
the podcast, and do not represent the opinions of my
Heart Media or its employees. His podcast should not be
used medical advice, mental health advice, mental health counseling or therapy,
or as imparting any health care recommendations at all. Individuals
are advised to seek independent medical counseling, advice, and or
therapy from a competent healthcare professional with respect to any
(55:15):
medical condition, mental health issues, health inquiry, or matter, including
matters discussed upon this podcast. Close to the Chest with
Kristen and Christine is a production of I Heart Radio
and produced Inner Studios located in Atlanta, Georgia. For more
podcasts from I heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio
app Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Close to the Chest with Kristin and Christine is brought
to you by My Heart Radio. My name is Kristin
Nobles and today is November sixteenth. This week's episode is
ironically recovery. That is the part of the process I
am knee deep in right now. When I set out
to get treated, it was really important to me to
(00:21):
come up with a plan to not only physically recover
from the disease, but I knew I had huge emotional
scars I had to deal with. And lastly, my hope
was that financially I would be able to get back
on my feet. Physically, I for the rest of my
life will be left with conditions and diseases that need
to be managed and cannot be cured, and that's sad.
(00:41):
But at the same time, I have symptoms that can
be eased and a recovery process ahead of me where
I know life will get better. I've seen so many
women survive and thrive and I so desperately want to
be part of that community, and to do that I
have to do emotional work as well. The shame and
guilt that I have carried for years with this dis ease,
thinking it was my fault blame me myself because I
(01:03):
couldn't afford treatment at times. It really affected the relationship
I have with myself as well as the relationship I
have with other people. I have severe PTSD from this disease,
and I work every day to manage that, the anxiety,
the depression, the anger. But I'm doing what I need
to do to make sure I overcome that. And finding
the right psychological and emotional support for me was key.
(01:23):
And lastly, financially, so many women I talked to and
myself have nearly been bankrupted by this disease. I don't
know how much I've spent over the last twenty years,
but I know it's all I had. Being a chronically
ill single mother managing a disease that wasn't yet named
during a pre existing condition period nearly bankrupted me. Then
(01:45):
I got coverage and I started to go through the
process and met all of the specialists and experts, and
it took years to diagnose me. All those copays, all
that money spent, and I arrived at this place where
I felt helpless emotionally, physically and financially. And recovery I'm
learning is unique to each of us, so I encourage
anyone out there in the recovery process, to be kind
(02:08):
to yourself, take your time, pay attention to your body,
because I'm currently going back into the hospital and it's
not easy, but I'm not giving up because I know
together we are not alone. The sin and then question
dogs walk into the room, heads turning on and down. Fine,
(02:38):
So this episode is all about recovery, and Kristen, you're
still in the relatively early stage of that journey. We've
already heard from many women who are in various stages
of their recovery and from where I sit, and the
only thing you all have in common is the immediate
symptom relief you've felt after having the implants out. Yes, Chris,
and every patient's journey is unique. Each of our bodies
(03:01):
are unique, and the most important thing that we can
do is get these implants safely out of our bodies.
That sounds simple, however, it took me years to get
a doctor to help and thank god that's now changing. However,
it's not just the X plant. There is a long
healing process that's physical, healing, mentally, getting yourself back and financially,
(03:23):
and that will also be unique for each person in patient. Christen,
please explain to our listeners about your most recent adventures
and explanting. What have you been suffering through these past
few weeks. I don't even know where to start. Um,
you know, First, I want to say I'm very grateful
to have these silicon bombs out of my body, because
I did feel some just immediate relief. And I'm really
(03:46):
grateful that I found a doctor who took insurance and
really cares. And as much as I'm glad they're out,
as it took two years to get here, I have
to confess when I first saw myself in the mirror,
I was horrified. I cried and said out on the floor,
and I had to dig pretty deep and temper my
fear of rejection and judgment and people not wanting me.
Knowing my original goal, I want to feel better, so
(04:09):
I focus on feeling healthy, not my appearance for now,
which is hard for me. And I definitely know I
will never miss the way they made me feel. But
in reality, I've been struggling, you know, emotionally, physically and
financially through this process. Well, Christian, is your friend Watching
you struggle or hurts my heart? I wish I could help.
(04:29):
I feel helpless. I imagine most people love b I
patients feel that way. It is, and I fear putting
that burden on people as a patient, but that's not reality.
You know. So many people have stepped in even when
I wouldn't ask for help and been there for me,
from walking my dogs to driving me to doctor's appointments,
to helping with food and natural remedies. Is and I'm sad.
(04:53):
You know that my health is not great and I'm
still suffering from several symptoms and diseases. I suffered day
lee from issues with my thyroid as you mentioned, I'm
having to go into back surgery and I'm only six
weeks out, and six weeks out, I'm only two days
out of the hospital because a week ago on my
left breast blew up and look bigger than it did
(05:15):
with the implant, and at first I thought it was positive,
thinking like my move came back because I imagined it.
But my doctor took one look at the photos, took
immediate action, hospitalized me, and now I have drainage tubes
in and that's just one of my issues. You know,
my lymph nodes are huge and the back surgery, as
we mentioned, so walking is almost impossible, and I feel,
(05:39):
you know, handicap in some way, and I'm scared, but
I'm still determined to figure this out and take one
procedure at a time. I hope that you're hopeful. I am.
You just skimmed a little bit over your back issues.
So let's touch on that you have a fracture in
your lower vertebrae with bulging disks and stenosis, and that's
a lot. Were scheduled to have surgery with to help
(06:02):
with that today, weren't you? Yes? But unfortunately I need
to heal from what's going on in my breast first,
and that's happened a lot in my journey where I
had a procedure scheduled, but then a subcondition came up
that pushed things out. And that's a really frustrating part
of this recovery process is how do you balance conditions
(06:23):
from symptoms and how do you recover? And it just
gets overwhelming. It seems like almost one step forward, two
steps back. Hey, my setbacks will be comebacks. I really
wish your recovery was going smoothly for you, But I
really do think that by sharing your story, our listeners
can gain some insight so that they can manage their expectations.
(06:44):
It's not an overnight care. I know. I thought I
would immediately feel better, and then I got great advice
from someone who told me to document my history and
they had me separate my diseases and my symptoms, and
it allowed me to take a look at what it
can fix, know what will require lifetime management so I
can plan for my care. You know, the degregation in
(07:05):
my spine has been shocking and painful, and honestly, lately
I cry a lot because I feel helpless and ashamed
at how much help I need. It's to the point
where every system and my body is affected. And between
going to emergency rooms, you pay co pay, testing being
ordered more co pays, then you get hospitalized and are
(07:26):
left with this big deductible in This matrix goes on
and on and so sometimes I feel like I'm financially overwhelmed.
But the emotional roller coaster is harder than financial issues
or even the physical pain we're going through. Well, if
you are looking for some kind of support, and I
think you need to look no further than today's gifts.
Our first guest we're speaking with is a therapist that
(07:48):
you know and trust. She is a b AI survivor
as well, Doctor Amanda Savage Brown, Yes, and I'm so
excited to speak with her. Amanda takes a behavioral approach
to therapy and it's been helping so many women with
b I I. She specializes in acceptance and commitment therapy,
which really helps women live with a mindful self acceptance
(08:11):
and pursue values guided change, and I look forward to
hearing her strategy to make everyone future is bright. I
see what you did there. We're so blessed to have
you today because this episode is obviously it's about recovery,
(08:34):
and I think that's something that is a very broad
term when we talk about breast implant illness and so,
as not only a licensed psychotherapist but also a BII survivor,
I wondered if we could start by you just sharing
with the listeners what recovery means to you and why
you think it's so important to talk about it. Yeah,
I mean, and I definitely want to answer that from
(08:56):
both the personal perspective and then what I serve as
a as a therapist kind of watching women and working
with women going through this. So you know, there's so
much information out there about you know, what to expect
when explanting, and um, what we need to buy and
you know, how can we safely plan for explant and
(09:19):
all of that is wonderful, and obviously we need to
use that to help us know what's possible, like what
is all in the realm of possibility, and then to
kind of help us get prepared. And then where I
kind of caution my clients and this kind of pulls
in a bit of my personal experience is I think
(09:40):
it's really important for us to not set expectations for
our body and our recovery based on what happens to
other people. UM. For example, I was told that because
my implants were above the muscle, that I was going
to have this much easier surgery. UM, I was going
(10:01):
to have a much briefer recovery. And you know, honestly
I was banking on that, and UM, that didn't end
up being the case for me. I had very very
thick calcified capsules UM that the doctor said had tentacles
kind of growing away from the capsules UM, and they
(10:22):
were pinching nerves and it was just so much more
involved surgery. What you said about the nerves and it
being an involved surgery. Every person is different and it
is major surgery. I'm sixteen days post X plant, and
the emotional feelings I felt, like you said, to plan
for that recovery isn't just the physical side. I think
(10:43):
for me, my physical recovery has been much. I don't
want to say easy, because it's not been easy, but
my emotional recovery is something that I didn't know what
to expect, like you just said, and I think we
do feel a lot of pressure now that we're sharing
our stories. Also to recad ever, you know, like you
do from pregnancy, you want to recover fast, you want
to do it best, and you know, and it's is
(11:05):
so not that way, like it's unique to each person.
I know that I have some common feelings, but they
come all over the place. That's exactly what what I
was gonna say is that, you know, what I see
is if we set expectations that in you know, finishing
up kind of on that physical side, like we're gonna
wake up and we're gonna feel better. The brain fog
(11:27):
is gonna be gone. You know, we're gonna breathe, the
weight's gonna melt off when and if that doesn't it's
great when that happens, But when it doesn't happen, what
happens to the woman experiencing that is that self doubt
gets amplified, the questioning gets amplified, the comparative thinking, and
then that drives more suffering, which interferes with the recovery.
(11:49):
And then you just raised what to me is the
is an incredibly important point, which is that recovery isn't
just physical. Like these journeys, we we start on them
because of stuff that's pushing us around in our head,
in our heart as women's who women who grow up
in the breast obsess society. And so when we explant,
(12:11):
it removes problematic implants from our body, but it doesn't
remove us from the problematic messaging around our body. And
so we are left with a tremendous amount of inner
work that needs to happen. And that's something I'm very
passionate about bringing to the community. Is you know, actual
(12:32):
support for the psychosocial aspect of breast implant removal b
I I and explant recovery. No, You're absolutely spot on there,
because I think the idea of recovery and what it
means to someone is really important. So what is like
a recovered person mean to a licensed psychotherapist? Gosh, you know,
(12:56):
I think it depends on her goals going into the surgery,
and so you know, some of us are just like,
I want to get these implants out and I'm going
to get back and reclaim my body. Um, and then
like what you said, it's I think that a lot
of us end up really surprised to find that our
(13:18):
recovery actually ends up being a much more holistic process.
And so for me, as a therapist looking at it,
I would define recovery as a person who's moving forward
after this surgery and she can age in a youth
obsessed society. She can live with post explant rests, She
(13:40):
can make decisions for her body and her health and
her well being without being so pushed around by all
the toxic messaging, without being like controlled, kind of like
a marionette by those old familiar beliefs that we all
just learn as young women growing up in our culture.
(14:01):
You know. So that's how I would define fully recovered,
is that you can kind of take the the hidden
opportunity with this journey to reclaim not just your body,
but also your mind and then move forward and really
being the driver's seat from that point forward. And and
that sounds simple, and I really acknowledge that it's a
(14:24):
lot of work. It really is, and it's an ongoing
process too. You know. It's funny because I felt like,
if I'm being really, really honest, I felt like a fraud.
So I got breast in plants um before I made
a career change. So originally, I um got a PhD
in genetics, and I worked as a scientist for the
(14:45):
United States Public Health Service and I did that for
you know, over a decade, and then I you know,
I would want it to be truer to myself and
I wanted to work with people one on one. So
then I went back to graduate school and I got
breast in plants. But before I really really started doing
a lot of that inner work and started kind of
reclaiming myself. So i'd sit there helping women. I specialize
(15:08):
in women's self acceptance. So I would sit there and
feel like a fraud because I was behind these two
implants that I knew I didn't want. I absolutely didn't
want to age with implants. I didn't want the like
threat of potential future surgeries hanging over my body, and
so I knew I didn't want them, and yet I
(15:31):
wasn't taking the values guided action to get them out.
I was kind of putting it off out of fear
um and then going through the whole process and you know,
my appearance changed, everything changed, you know, and needing to
be able to be open about that and talk about that,
because I think it's really important for us as women
(15:53):
to be real with each other and to normalize like, look,
I did this just like millions of other of women
have done this to our bodies for all of these reasons,
and we can make decisions moving forward to like repair
that inside and out. So I've tried to be really
transparent with my clients about what's going on, and then
(16:17):
when I'm working the clients who share the b I
I experience or explant, it's it's just incredibly helpful because
women are wired to seek connection with other women who
share and know their distress. That's just how we work.
So I think it's been very, very helpful. But you
just said they're about being able to empathize with someone
(16:40):
who's gone through this, you know, Chris, and I talked
to survivors and thrivers and family members that this journey
you speak of that's so important that right now I'm
going through. It's not pretty. You know. I spend more
time on my bathroom floor than i'd like to share, crying,
but I do notice it's this moment of relief and
release and like you said, connecting to this community of
(17:03):
women there, all of a sudden, I feel like I
belong again, where prior I felt really alone and on
the outside and misunderstood and marginalized. And I just wondered
for you, in the role of mental health, when you're
working with women like us, do you see um because
for me there was major depression and I think the
(17:24):
mental side of the disease took a great toll on
my self, talk, my self, perception, my self value, And
it's almost like I'm rebuilding myself and how I feel
about myself. Is this normal? Yeah? You know? And that's
the frustrating thing about this is that the population isn't
(17:45):
being studied in this respect, right, So we can't with
any confidence say you know that anxiety is observed in patients,
or you know, depressive episodes occur, and we but we
do know that that is the experience, you know. And
then the thing that really really you know, emboldened me
(18:11):
and passioned me to start, you know, to literally completely
shift my practice to specialize in this is the way
that women with b I I what I saw in
terms of how they were being treated. It was shocking
to me when I was going through the explant process,
in the gas lighting, the dismissiveness, the minimizing. It it's
(18:37):
it's like fuel to a fire that is already burning
her up on the inside. And it was really really
upsetting to me to see that. And so we're already
struggling with anxiety that I believe is driven by you know,
a lot of complex things that are being disrupted in
(18:58):
our body that we don't have the studies yet to
really say we understand the pathology behind all of that,
but we've already got this like chemically derived anxiety that's
happening to us. We have this feeling of depression or hopelessness,
this fatigue that leads us to feel like we've completely
(19:19):
lost touch with ourselves, any hope of living the life
that we thought that we were going to live. And
then when you try to help yourself, you're met with controversy, confusion,
and dismissiveness. It's it's really really problematic. And and while
it's wonderful and amazing that there's so many resources that
(19:41):
can help us with the physical side of recovery, like
what you just said about being on your bathroom floor,
more than you care to admit, I know that that
is playing out as we speak right now. That's playing
out for probably I don't know how many women around
the world, you know. And that is what's inspiring me
to do the work that I'm doing. Is I want
(20:01):
women when they're on their bathroom floor, I want them
to feel like they know what to do for themselves,
and I want them to be able to do things
for themselves that ends up helping them heal and recover
in ways that they'll emerge from this. I always think
of like, um, a phoenix rising from ashes, you know,
(20:23):
And I want women to be able to emerge from this,
you know, stronger and more resilient than we go into it.
And I know it's possible because I've seen it happen.
Why is that so hard for women? Why is it
so hard for women to just be kind? Or so?
I know it is, And and I think back, like,
how many of us? I'm sure that if we were
(20:43):
in a room right now with an auditorium filled with
women with b I I and women with breast implants,
and we said, how many of you have been told
to just just learn to love yourself? Just accept yourself?
Like all of our hands would go flying up in
the air. And then if we said how many of
you know how to do that, most of the hands
would go down because we don't know how to do that.
(21:06):
We were so wonderful and loving and caring to others,
and and we're so compassionate to others, and it doesn't
occur to us to treat ourselves the way that we
would treat someone that we love. And that's part of
the work that I do with women, and that's part
of the transformation, is getting her to see that just
(21:27):
as she would treat her mother, her sister, her daughter,
her friend, somebody she loved or cared about, that she
can do those same things for herself. And I believe
that to fully recover from this, that we have to
do that. And you'll hear these beautiful stories of women,
And in my own story, you know, a big turning
(21:48):
point for me is when and I get emotional talking
about this, but it's when I stopped viewing my post
explant aesthetics as something at needed to be fixed, something
that was so upsetting, and and I started responding to
it the way that I would if it was on
(22:10):
my daughter's body. And everything changed for me. And I
started being gentle, I started being loving, I started being caring,
and it changed my relationship with myself. Well, you just
hit on the head there, because I think for a
lot of us, first and formost self sacrifice. We are
raised in a culture where you know, we embrace the
(22:32):
suck we sacrifice, we do for others, and that makes
us a an amazing woman. And I think part of
this new generation of acceptance and self talk is that,
you know, to quote my Angelo, if you can't love yourself,
who can you love? And I think, like you said,
it's not that easy. It's something Then in that moment
when we make the decision to actually go through an
(22:54):
ex plant, you make that first choice of yourself over
everything else. That's this belief system that led you to
get the implants in the first place. So what would
you say to that woman out there that's at the
point where she's choosing to have an explant. We are
scared because we're not sure what life is going to
(23:15):
be like, what would you say to that woman? Is
something we can lean on as one of those tools
to get us through that really fearful moment, because I
know it's scary for a lot of us to choose recovery. Absolutely,
so I think it comes down to you've got to
know your why and you've got to hold it really
(23:35):
really close to your chest. And so I work from
a premise of acceptance and commitment therapy or acceptance and
commitment training, depending on what I'm doing in a big
part of acceptance and commitment therapy is values guided action,
and so it's it's really like a two step thing.
(23:56):
One no and really really embrace the are you doing
this for health? Are you doing this for another value
that you hold? Not everybody x plants because of b
I I. Some women x plant because they're reclaiming their
mind from you know, an abusive partner who ridiculed her
about her body. You know. Some women are are doing
(24:19):
it because they're making a values aligned to move with
natural organic living. So there's different reasons. But whatever yours is,
really know it and like pull it into your heart
and use that as like and like the north on
a on a compass, use that to guide your actions
(24:39):
as you move toward and through X plant. Yeah, so
one of the things that I'll do is I'll help
women literally know like values are basically like adverbs, they
describe your quality of action. So do you want to
treat yourself compassionately, gently, kindly, love, bingly, respectfully, healthfully, whatever
(25:04):
that is for you? And then literally pretend that you're
making a compass um and and and put those things.
And you know, we use a compass when we've lost
our way, right, and we pulled out so that it
helps us find where we're going. So in that moment,
you just described where you're looking in the mirror, and
it's very distressing. It's one of the things you do
(25:25):
is you pull out that compass and you look at
it and you say, Okay, well, I really care about
treating myself lovingly, or I really care about treating myself respectfully,
or I really care about treating myself kindly, And then
you just ask what could I do? Is there something
I need to say to myself or stop saying to myself?
(25:46):
Is there a way that I need to touch myself.
Is there should I should I rest my hand in
my heart? You know? Is there something that I can
do that is values guided as opposed to fear guided
as a pose to being driven by all that baggage.
That's very, very real. Which brings me to the second thing,
(26:07):
or another important thing, is in those moments, we've got
to show up for the part of us that's greeting,
and we've got to show up for the part of
us that's afraid. Right. And I hear so many women
on these journeys. I hear them say, I did this
to myself. I can't be angry. I did this to myself.
I can't That's not true. You don't have to choose.
(26:31):
It isn't all or nothing. I just want to thank
you so much because being able to talk to someone
you know with your not only education but experience, which
I think is the combination that really creates true solutions,
and your willingness to bring this issue to the forefront
of your community and to continue learning is key because
acknowledging the emotional impact of breast implant illness and the
(26:53):
recovery is something, like you said, is not necessarily talked
about enough because it's a physical process for them. And
I think Christine and I can you know, just we're
so grateful to bring this to the listeners attention, and
also for me to have you and my tool kit
as I go forward. It's priceless because I didn't know
what to expect, and now that I'm going through it,
(27:16):
I know it's not only a unique journey, but it's
one that requires this community support to get through. And
I think having you in the community is a blessing.
It's an opportunity for us to all grow and the
fact that you're doing this work is such an inspiration
to me. This this work is my honor. Um I.
Just I'm very very honored to be doing the work.
(27:39):
Um I. I look at this whole situation and how
we get into this and how we get ourselves out
of it. And I I feel like the problem with
problematic rest implants and b I I is a global
(27:59):
women health issue, and you know, being a part of
the solution, I'd like to try to help women. You know,
just look at this lifelong quest for better breasts that
we're all pursuing and kind of step back from it
and get in control of it rather than having it
(28:23):
push us around, you know, because we live in a
time right now where we pursue surgery and put these
bags in our body that lead to illness or problems
or uncomfortable situations, and so being able to kind of
help women, I call it busting the quest for better breasts,
(28:46):
you know, So trying to help women bust that quest
is is it's a proactive kind of way to help
with this whole journey that you know, our generation and
the one for us and the one immediately after us.
You know, we're all in this together. Um, but we've
got it's like a societal obligation to try to turn
(29:09):
this around so that the minds of women are liberated,
literally empowered, so that we don't keep believing these things
and making these choices that hurt our bodies. Fine, I'm fine. Wow, Kristen,
(29:39):
she has a lot of compassion and understanding for women.
I mean, if I were going through all of this,
I would definitely want to have someone like her holding
my hand to help heal my heart. Yes, she is
a secret weapon of sorts and so dedicated to this community.
Not only has she been very kind and helpful, but
she has a tactical plan and a methodology she designed
(30:00):
from experience. Well, you've been very lucky. You've met some
very incredibly accomplished and generous people along your journey. Yes,
and our next guest is also so giving. Jennifer Schultz
has been an advocate to many of us, including me.
She's empowering women to have faith in their bodies and
as a coach and mentor for women walking through b
i I, her mission is to help them from having
(30:23):
an identity of being sick to an identity of being
healed and healthy with confidence, community, faith, and fashion. Today,
we're so excited to have a dear friend, advocate, colleague,
and someone who has paved the way for the rest
of us in the b i I space. My friend
(30:45):
Jennifer Schultz, who is also a colleague, an advocate and educator,
a speaker, an entrepreneur, and someone who is creatively not
only used fashion and your whole heart to help our community,
but you've really become an advocate helping those of us
recover from the disease, us from diagnostic through treatment. So,
first and foremost, Jennifer, do you mind sharing a bit
with our listeners your experience with b I I, and
(31:08):
how you got involved in this tragic yet sisterhood of
a cause. Hi. Yes, Well, first of all, I just
want to say thank you so much for inviting me
and to be on your podcast. I feel so incredibly honored,
UM and grateful. So let's see, I got sick, like
so many of us women do, and I started feeling
fatigue and brain fog and and I literally thought it
(31:31):
was just because I was working so much. And you know,
we all seemed to put that the blame on that. Oh,
it's I'm busy with the kids and work and this
and that and the other thing. And my illness just
never kept getting better. And I kept going to doctors
after doctors, treatments after treatments. I spent literally over a
hundred fifty thousand dollars during the four and a half
years that I was sick. And I was told I
(31:53):
was fine. I was told my cbcs all came back normal.
I was told that I was depressed. I was told
that after I told the doctor I had vertigo, he
told me I had vertigo. Um. I was told all
kinds of nonsense, right, And but I knew in my
gut that something was not right. I just knew it.
(32:15):
I never thought it was my implants though, until one
of my girlfriends said to me, her name is Brenda.
She said, I think your implants are making you sick.
And I did not want to receive that at all,
because like you, I mean, like who wants to think
their implants are making them sick. So at that point
(32:35):
I started kind of looking around, but honestly, I started
praying and asking God to show me if it were
my implants, and that is when it just like he
just opened the doors, and that's when I really knew, Okay,
it's my implants. And that's kind of how it all started.
So I was sick for and half years found out
it was my implants. Actually went to a kinesiologist because
(32:57):
again I prayed, and God put a woman in in
front of me at church and she had the same illness,
and she said, you have to go see doctor Virgil
because he's the one that told me I had breast
in my illness. He's a kinesiologist. And I was like, kinesiologist,
what the heck? I don't get that. I've been to
all these other doctors and a kinesiologist is going to
(33:17):
tell me. And instantly when I went to see him.
He did muscle testing on me. He said, oh, I
didn't even tell him what was going on. He said,
your implants are making you so sick. Can you tell
us what a kinesiologist is. Yeah, kinesiologist basically is a
natural past chiropractic doctor, so he um, he does chiropractic
(33:38):
type of work, but also he does a lot of
stuff and muscle testing. And I'm a huge believer in
muscle testing because I've seen at work on other people.
So when I went to him, I just said, yeah,
my friend Kim told me to come here and see you.
I've been sick with you know, sick for four and
a half years. I don't know what's going on. She
thinks you can help me. So he started. He literally
(33:59):
put um silicone like a little bottle of silicone in
or sailing. I can't I think it was a silicone
in my hand. It was silicone. And he started muscle
testing me and I literally was failing the test. And
he said, oh, yeah, you are you're He said you
have implants. I said, yes, I do. He said they
(34:20):
are completely like destroying your body, said, your body is
starting to fall apart and like shut down his words,
it's like a fire inside your body is how I've
heard a lot of women explain it. And then talking
to you, the fact that you were able to see
a kinesiologist. What's so fascinating to me is today I
have this horrible tremor and it started and I, you know,
(34:41):
message my doctor before the podcast. And one of the
things in terms of diagnosis and recovery is a lot
of times we're chasing the symptoms versus the root cause,
and you can get sent to all these specialists. So
it's interesting that you found a quarterback who took the
initiative and then for you, it was really like this
radical awakening is kind of what I'm hearing. Oh yeah, completely,
(35:02):
especially because I literally got on my knees. It's like, God,
show me what's wrong with me. I can't do this anymore.
I mean I literally cried out to him. And then
like that Sundays when I met Kim, she normally didn't
even go to my church, um, and then I got
in with Dr Virsil. It just started happening so quickly,
and even after he told me, I felt like I
(35:23):
was sucker punched. I remember going to the beach and
I was like, Okay, I get it. It's the implants.
And like you said, the doctors aren't looking for the
root cause, and there is a root cause, and for
me it was the implants and for whatever reason that
trauma which I will be praying for you on that later,
(35:44):
there's a root cause for that and it's probably the implants. So, Jennifer,
do you mind sharing a bit with the listeners what
you went through when you were deciding to go through
X plants and the process of meeting with the doctor
in having the procedure. Yeah, I think. Um, So what
I was going through at that time was a state
of accepting that it was my implants number one, and
(36:09):
then dealing with the fact I have to have surgery
because no one wants to have surgery. I don't even
like having an ivy second more, and so that part
dis grossed me. So I was going through all the
mental stuff of like, oh, what does all this mean?
And who's going to take care of me? I mean,
all these thoughts start going through your head. So then
going to the surgeon and sitting down with him and
(36:30):
him telling me that I was number one a classic
case and that all the symptoms I've had so many
women have. He did say that my body was shutting down,
just like my knesiologists said. He also said that I
was not a candidate for fat transfer because I was
(36:51):
too sick. He said, if I even tried to do
a fat transfer on you, because my doctor does not
put implants back in because he's totally against it. So
he said, if I even tried to do a fat
transfer with you, um, it's gonna it won't work because
your body is too sick. It will instantly reject it.
So he said, we will discuss it again at a
year's time, if that's you know what your heart's desire. Jennifer,
(37:12):
what you just pointed out there. As a b I
I coach, had I known you three years ago, I
unfortunately did not have a doctor who gave me that
great advice. I made the decision to reimplant implants, So
I ended up having that experience of going from a
bad disease to overnight just decimated. And so as a
b I I coach, it sounds like all these little
(37:32):
tips you picked up you're able to save people. This
quote critical healing time, because that was a big decision
not to reconstruct right away It's not easy to do that, right.
I would love to say that when I speak this
out to people, they instantly say, Okay, I'm not going
to get implants again, because I actually have someone I
was working with who has a lot of the symptoms,
(37:55):
but she ended up putting implants back in her even
though I highly urged her not to, but she was
not willing to, you know, like learn how to have
the confidence of her own identity. So I know that
not everyone's going to listen to me or you for
that matter. All we can do is pray and hope
(38:16):
that we get our message out there and that more
women like think, Okay, if all these women around here
are going through this, then maybe I need to like
do some more research. Maybe I need to consider like
like just being natural, being organic, well and on the mindset.
For me. Initially, how Christine and I got involved is
when I had my implants done the second time during
(38:39):
what I thought was my treatment. When the recall happened,
I was very angry, you know, there was and still
as a part of me that was mad. But then,
like all of us, I think the warrior becomes that
we want to do something about this. And so when
raising awareness. I reached out to Christine and I. You know,
we've done a lot of research, and I think there's
this big reception out there that we don't want anybody
(39:02):
to have implants, et cetera. And one of the most
important things is that all of us honor it's your body,
your choice, but you really need full disclosure. And so
in terms of your recovery and what I've heard you
say you went through, there was a lot of things
we were not told when I got the implants. One
of my questions to you was, all of these symptoms
you've mentioned. Now they have something called the warning. You
(39:22):
know that the FDA is issued that's inside the box.
And we're all lobbying for full disclosure. We all want
people to be told the financial, emotional, and physical risks
of implants. But as you deliver that information to women,
are most of them shocked that this is even the thing.
Funds I meet people every day, They're like, what this is?
(39:43):
This is? This was the thing? Like, yes, I still
blown away with how many people, men and women are
blown away when I tell them, yeah, the implants made
me sick. And here's the deal. I notice how I
say the implants because I don't. They're not mine anymore.
I don't claim them. They're not mine. I don't own
that they're they're gone. So I yes, people are shocked.
(40:06):
They don't know that this is happening worldwide. Women, hundreds
of thousands of women are being affected by this. And
what's happening is then it's affecting their family, then it's
affecting their dreams, then it's affecting their life. So again,
going back to what you were saying, how do people
deal with this and how we've got to change the
way we think once we get the implants taken out,
(40:27):
so therefore we can go back to what God has
called us to do. Everyone's different. I don't know what
you know. There's different people on here, and maybe they've
been called to be a teacher or a mom, or
a lawyer or an entrepreneur um whatever that looks like
for them. This illness puts like almost like a hold
on us. But if we become warriors and we fight,
(40:49):
we fight to stay healthy, to stay healed, and and
then we go after our dreams, it's amazing what what
will happen? And I think to what you talk about, Jennifer,
that's still important. It's the financial side. You brought this up,
and I think one of the third biggest points for
women is that Number one, there's solutions available, there's organizations
out there, but financially we're I was quoted everything from
(41:13):
eight thousand dollars to fifty tho dollars, And I've really
read and we've been talking a lot about there being
a standard of care and so to coach people economically
on how to get through this. This is probably the
epitome of creative financing. There's some insurance tricks and people
you know that are more likely to cover. So the
financial barrier, what are your tips on that is like
(41:34):
kind of the third misconception because I think that's a
really big barrier to women getting treated that it's too
expensive or they can't. Yeah. I hear a lot of
people say, oh my gosh, it was only this amount
to put him in, but it was this amount to
take them out. And I'm like, dude, you were excited
to get him in. You found the money to put
him in, Now find the money to get him out. Okay,
that's my normal thought process because I'm I'm kind of
(41:54):
a bottom line type of person. So again, I can't
say that to some people because they can't handle hearing that.
But I think if women recognize how excited they were
to get them put in and how they found the money,
we will find the money to get them taken out.
I found the money to get them taken out. I didn't.
I didn't have a clue. So for me, literally, I
(42:17):
went through my insurance. They were not cooked. They were
not They wanted you know what, you know where my
insurance wanted to send me to to a hand surgeon.
I'm like a hand surgeon. He's like, he doesn't know
what he So you've got to be willing to like
know that. Okay, if I want to find the money,
I'm gonna I'm gonna find the money. So here's what
happened with me. And I'm being full on authentic. I
(42:38):
had gone through all my savings. I'm like, how am
I going to come up with this amount? Mine was
around seventeen thousand okay, And again people are like, seventeen thousand,
Oh my gosh. I said, look, I want the best
and I want it done properly. I don't want to
have to go back in for a second surgery. So
this is good for me. Now, my best friend hers
was like, I think ten thousand, holy happy, doing great.
(43:01):
He got it all out, they took pictures, she got
pathology back, all of that kind of stuff. So it
depends on what state you're in, It depends on what city,
It depends on all kinds of what what what you
have done. But these are other nuances that you know.
So when someone reaches out to you as a coach,
you know these brief, nuanced things. And I think that's
amazing because the thing with this and to bring this
(43:23):
kind of full circle is talking to you and listening.
You know, not only have you been through xplant diagnostic,
but you're still in recovery. So for those of us
out there that are listening and are struggling, what you know,
what would you say to women in recovery? How would
you describe it? And do you have a quote that
you'd like to leave them with as inspiration because you
(43:46):
have some amazing ones, Jennifer, I guess what I would
encourage anyone who is going through this? Okay, number one,
don't give up, you are not alone. I would also
encourage you, Um, this is this is a scripture Jeremiah.
For I know the plans I have for you, Plans
to give you a future, plans to give you hope
(44:08):
in a future, plans not to harm you. So I
live by that scripture. I know that God's plans for
me are to give me hope in a future. So
I say that scripture over and over. So I would
encourage anyone if you're struggling or you're having a bad day,
get into scripture and start reading scriptures because the provisions
that God offers us is so much bigger than the
(44:31):
negative stuff. So, for example, if you're dealing with anxiety,
what's the opposite of anxiety, peace? Right? So what if
I start feeling anxiety, I instantly start thinking about, Okay,
peace I need to be. It's a state of peace.
God give me peace. I start praying. You've made this
congregation of women that have come together, that have faith
(44:52):
in each other. There's a big level of trust. And
I think what I'm hearing from you, Jennifer, is that
the key to recovery is to have faith in yourself,
to have faith in the people around you, to like
Christine just said, trust your gut, verify the information, and
find a community that can support you. Because there's so
many amazing communities out there, and I think what you've
(45:12):
done to being not only an advocate, a coach, and entrepreneur,
a fashion stylist, You've given us all solutions that are
not only accessible, but they're real and they're honest, and
they come from this huge heart and empathy. And I
want to thank you for not only the work you
do for others, but for leading by example, because I
think it is very difficult when we're going through this journey.
We want to appear perfect, and you're sharing your experiences
(45:36):
authentically and openly is not only saving lives, but you're
building warriors. And I think through this work, we're not
only going to be able to change the narrative, but
we are going to get full disclosure. And it starts
with those of us sharing what's close to our chest,
which is our story about b I. I well, thank
you for you. I think that what you're able to
(45:56):
do and share for people as incredible. We will leave
a link to your social media ways to get in
touch with you. Um and is there anyone you know
anything you'd like to shout out before you go to
the listeners as resources that you provide your trust. Well,
I would say you You've provide so much information. I
want to thank you for what you're doing because I
know you're still walking through it, and you still have
(46:18):
bad days and you're going through a lot of health issues,
and I just I just like bow down to you
and say thank you for everything you're doing, for not
giving up, for fighting for women, for fighting for this illness,
and and knowing that God has given you such a
bigger purpose and a bigger plan that I don't even think, Honestly,
(46:40):
I don't even think you're aware of. Honestly, I really don't. Um.
It's so humongous. Like literally, I've when I've prayed for you,
I've seen huge, huge things around you. So um, yeah,
your your plans are quite large. So I just want
to say thank you. Look at all of your information
was amazing. Thank you for what you're doing. Christen. She
(47:08):
is so determined, strong, and definitely somebody you want to
have in your life. It is amazing how powerful spirituality
is for the community. No matter what your faith is,
having something that helps you through is really what matters.
It is, Chris. Sharing your story is scary yet necessary,
as these are the testimonies that stave lives since she
began this journey. I love that nothing stands in her way.
(47:31):
And what have you learned listening to these interviews given
where you are on your journey. Definitely first half faith
in your body. That sounds mystical, but it's key regardless
of your denomination. Many survivors share that they lean a
lot on the spiritual community. It was hard for me
to keep faith after all this rejection, but now I
myself even have amazing grace tattooed on my left inner arm,
(47:54):
and I find it interesting how many nurses and doctors
compliment me on it. And then I get to share
my story and why I got the tattoo as a
reminder that I need to have faith and push on
and not give up. Well, what we do know is
that the mind is a very powerful organ and it
sounds like mentally you have to be strong as each
(48:16):
person has their own unique healing process. So finding a
support group is key. I mean, from church to chat rooms.
There are thankfully many options, yes, and the emotional scars
are the hardest for me to heal. I'll bet I'm
glad you found the support. I mean, that is key. However,
let's talk about The second lesson I took away the
(48:38):
recovery process seems to have phases, and that is unique
to each of you. As we've heard, many women have
thyroid issues, on immune issues, and of course B I, A, A, L, C, L,
all these diseases with their own treatments. There are so
many symptoms and diseases that fall under the great umbrella
of breast implant illness. How do you navig need it? Well, Christine,
(49:01):
a very wise man in the entertainment industry, once told
me that life is a series of storms, and the
key to surviving is finding your umbrella. So I took
that advice and I've been working on my umbrella, which
now consists of a full toolkit of experts physical doctors
to psychological support to integrated medicine experts, and working across
(49:23):
disciplines to all these specialists is hard. So the other
thing I did is found the right quarterback. And I
think for anyone that's key. You need someone who can
understand what all of these doctors who focus on just
one part of your body because that's a specialty, say so.
The colon doctors and enter chronologists need to talk to
the hematology doctors to the when you see where I'm going,
(49:45):
I joke that I need the person to manage all
the oologists. Oh my cow, It's like, how do you
keep it all straight? You must have a medical degree
at this point, right web MD. So, Kristen, what was
what is this recovery plan like yours? How much does
it cost you? So far? Everything I mean emotionally clearly
(50:08):
a lot. You know, I have depression, anxiety and really
really hard times physically. You know, I'm left with conditions
and things that will never go away, and financially almost
everything I have. But I've been blessed, you know, to
have friends and people who cared about me to help
me because this disease literally could leave me homeless or
(50:31):
god forbid, I lost my insurance. What would I do?
So it's really important to have a financial plan. It's
part of recovering in know that recovery isn't just surgery
in the two weeks after it could go on because
you have complications. You know, think about what I've spent
being in the hospital for five days recently, and all
the experts I saw, and then all the time I've
(50:52):
missed from work, et cetera. So it's really almost impossible
to quantify this, even when you begin to look at
the opportunity cost right of all the years being sick
versus out there with you making great projects. So for
each person it's different, but in many ways the same,
and the numbers always too much. You know, it extends
us to a place that we never imagined. Well, I mean, Christen,
(51:14):
it seems like the most important thing is that you
need to be able to take the time to be
able to heal. That seems like really the most important
part of it all. I mean, you can be thinking
about all the other stuff, but if you don't take
the time to heal, you're never gonna get better, so
you know, and then it seems like you're stuck on
some kind of a treadmill. It seems like many women
(51:37):
share that, and it's a big barrier to treatment, especially
when it can take you a year more to recover. Absolutely,
you know, women don't want to leave their kids, they
don't want to be out for two weeks, let alone
a year, and it's key to recognize that this is
not a simple process to enter. And honestly, Chris, the
other lesson I learned is that it's something I'm currently
(51:58):
struggling with is. Honestly, that recovery is not a race,
and I think many of us feel disappointed that we're
not healing overnight. You know, I compare it to when
people get pregnant. You see them on the internet three
weeks later and they're like, what baby? And you know,
the type of support people used during recovery, it can
be really expensive and cost prohibitive to many of us.
And I found myself really looking at other patients in
(52:20):
comparing I was at versus where they were at, and
I felt like I was failing, and I really started
to be hard on myself, and you know me, I
wanted to be good at recovery. But then my doctors
reminded me that everybody comes into this with their own
set of conditions and disabilities and symptoms and underlying genetics,
and each journey is different and it's important to remember that,
(52:43):
you know, it's your recovery, and focus on you and
take the time you need. And that's been hard for
me because we have to somehow finance this and we
also want to keep working. But it's important to take
time off and let your body heal. Yeah, you need
to heal, but I mean christ and I think one
of the most important things that we learned from doing
(53:03):
this podcast together is that together we are not alone.
Close to the Chest with Kristen and Christine has been
brought to you by b Noble Media Group and I
Heart Radio. A very special thanks to our guests, dr
Amanda Savage Brown and Jennifer Schultz. To find out more
(53:24):
about dr Amanda Savage Brown, you can find her on
Instagram at dr Amanda Savage Brown. That's at d R
dot A m A N D A s A v
A g E d R O w N. And you
can find out more about her Bright program at www
Amanda Savage Brown dot com and follow Jennifer Schultz on
(53:48):
Instagram at Jennifer Schultz Style. That's at j E n
N I f E R s h u l t
z s t y l E Jennifer Schultz Style. Now,
I'd like to share some gratitude, a very special thanks
to I Heart Radio, to our Parker and her I
(54:09):
Heart Radio marketing team, and a big big thanks to
our executive producer Ramsay Yacht. If you or someone you
know would like to know more about breast and planted illness,
please visit sick titties dot com that's s I c
k t I T t I e s dot com. Also,
please follow us on Instagram at sick dot titties and
(54:31):
at b Noble Art that's b n O B l
e A r T. And we would also love to
have you join our Facebook page at b Noble on
B I I and please remember you're not alone. Together
we can beat this. The views and opinions expressed are
solely those of the podcast author or individuals participating in
(54:53):
the podcast, and do not represent the opinions of my
Heart Media or its employees. His podcast should not be
used medical advice, mental health advice, mental health counseling or therapy,
or as imparting any health care recommendations at all. Individuals
are advised to seek independent medical counseling, advice, and or
therapy from a competent healthcare professional with respect to any
(55:15):
medical condition, mental health issues, health inquiry, or matter, including
matters discussed upon this podcast. Close to the Chest with
Kristen and Christine is a production of I Heart Radio
and produced Inner Studios located in Atlanta, Georgia. For more
podcasts from I heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio
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