Amanda Seales Part 1

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
She is a young person. Do you know how disgusting
that is?

Speaker 2 (00:03):
And that you cornball nigga who loves to make himself
look like he's the white people savior.

Speaker 3 (00:08):
Who's to that it? Man?

Speaker 1 (00:10):
You will I goo come talk to me white people.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
I'm the black guy that that's nice?

Speaker 3 (00:15):
Man? I know these people. Man, I'm gonna have to help.

Speaker 2 (00:17):
Well you not saying it.

Speaker 3 (00:18):
I am all my life, grinding all my life, sacrifice hustle.

Speaker 2 (00:23):
P Price, want a slice? Got the brow?

Speaker 3 (00:27):
All my life, grinding all my life, all my life, drowning,
all my.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
Life, sacrific hustle, P Price, want a slice? Got the broa?

Speaker 3 (00:38):
All my life be grinding all my life. Come on,
Welcome to another episode of Club Shahe. I am your host,
Shannon Sharp. I'm also the propriet of Club Shohe. The
lady that's stopping by for conversation on the drink today
is a multi tality prolific comedian, actress, writer, producer, director,
TV host, syndicated radio host, author, podcaster, DJ rapper, singer, poet,

(01:01):
media personality, performer, cultural commentator, content creator, an industry veteran,
social media star, NAACP Image Award nominee hip hop, scholar, entrepreneurs,
CEO of philanthropist, and activist. A renaissance woman, she calls
herself a common sense specialist, the people's favorite true tailler
or truth translator, as she preferred to call herself. She

(01:22):
says what folks are actually thinking. Welcome to the show.
Miss Amanda seals you ran it down? How was that?
I mean, so, how was the intro? Did I leave
out anything.

Speaker 2 (01:35):
Had in my life?

Speaker 3 (01:37):
You like that? That's that because you was a little worried.
I mean when you came in, you was like, oh,
that wasn't worried. You was like, uh, You're like you're so,
you're so, you're so formal, Why you're busy worried?

Speaker 2 (01:48):
That's me trying to welcome you. That's That's not me saying.

Speaker 3 (01:51):
That's not how you welcome you in my own house.

Speaker 2 (01:54):
No, because I know that I have a lot of
energy when I come into a space and people will
be like, oh, you know, it's a lot of So
I have been trained over the years to try to
make people feel comfortable.

Speaker 1 (02:04):
So that's what i'd be trying to do.

Speaker 3 (02:06):
Well, Well, I'm trying to make you feel comfortable. Are
you comfortable?

Speaker 2 (02:09):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (02:09):
You know, normally when we when people when gas come
on the show, we'd like to have a toast. So
it's bad luck to toast of spirit and water. Okay,
so a test, all the best, Thanks for stoping by,
but I have to jump on this right quick, show
on hand with it. Real good folks, gohead and get
your money, get your boding this shape by the portier.

(02:31):
So how are you?

Speaker 2 (02:32):
How am I I am? That's a loaded question. How
I'm evolving? That's how I am. I'm evolving. I've had
a lot of information and a lot of slander at
the same time.

Speaker 3 (02:50):
Okay, And.

Speaker 2 (02:54):
In the past months, it's just been a very difficult time,
but there's been really beautiful things that have come out
of it that I will speak to you know in
this conversation.

Speaker 3 (03:07):
Well, since we started there, we'll start there and we
can pick up go to another another direction a little later.
What started this evolution? What caused Amanda to all the
sudden sea things, or not see things differently, but maybe
see things as they actually are?

Speaker 2 (03:29):
Because so many people were seeing what I was experiencing,
and they shared with me that they had had similar experiences.

Speaker 1 (03:39):
And so I recently was diagnosed.

Speaker 2 (03:42):
As someone who has autism spectrum disorder, which is very
difficult to identify in black women because of racism.

Speaker 3 (03:52):
So what exactly is autism spectrum mat because I hear
people say you it used to.

Speaker 2 (03:57):
Be called Asperger's so that is no longer what it's
called because to my knowledge, Asperger was a Nazi. But
what it is typically, what it simply means is that
your brain functions in a different way, so you're neurodivergent,
and you also have certain tendencies that are considered outside

(04:18):
of what the neurotypical way of things is. Ok and
a lot of times that can have you present in
a manner that people misrepresents. Okay, okay, which is the
story of my okay. And so when all of this
started ballooning out of nowhere and people were saying, you know,
you're unlikable and you're a bully. No not you're a bully,

(04:39):
but you're being bullied and these were things. These are
tropes that have been associated with me before, but I'm
in a new level of visibility at this junction, and
you get people saying things like you are difficult, you
are mean, you are nasty, and you know the you

(05:00):
are none of these things, but they're attributing it to
things that are not actually action based, Like I don't
cheat people, I don't lie to people. I don't stab
people in the back, don't I don't operate in mendacity.
I am not duplicitous. I don't do none of this shit.
But I have a certain tone about how I speak

(05:20):
and that makes people feel like, oh, I mean because
something about the tone that I speak in doesn't make
them feel a certain way.

Speaker 3 (05:28):
And so can I ask you this not to cut
you off, but were they people that you had a
relationships with? Were this in the workplace that you became
difficult or this people that you just have general interactions with.

Speaker 1 (05:42):
These are people I've met, so people.

Speaker 2 (05:46):
The people who are saying these things.

Speaker 3 (05:47):
About me have never met me, and that's impacting you. Yes, why.

Speaker 2 (05:58):
For a number of reasons. One, I am not a sociopath. Two,
it is actually a part of being autistic that you
are very, very very sensitive to what people think about
you because you are always keenly aware that you are
an alien. You are keenly aware that you are different,
you are keenly aware that something is very odd about you,

(06:24):
and you're always, always trying to make the room feel good.
We literally just talked about it because it's my habit, right,
It's my habit to try.

Speaker 1 (06:35):
I'm a cry already.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
I've only been here for like five damn minutes. It
is my habit because I've always been labeled as this
you think you know everything. It's not that I think
I know everything, but I really did know the answer,
and I'm thinking I'm helping the room out by having
the answer. But they like it all.

Speaker 1 (06:55):
You're a lot, you're a show off, you're extra.

Speaker 2 (06:58):
In my fresh my sophomore year at college, I was
put in a suite with seven other women, and the
day I got there, my name had been ripped off
the door and thrown on the ground. I didn't even
know these women, and two weeks in of them not
talking to me, I said, listen, I'd like to have
a Friday night where I buy it by La Tequila
and we all just sit around and y'all could take
shots and tell me why you don't like me. And

(07:21):
everybody's reason was, I don't like you because you think
you all that. I don't like you because you extra.
I don't like you because you would show off. None
of that shit is anything having Like I'm not harming them,
Like I'm literally just trying to meet, Like I'm just

(07:41):
trying to exist. I'm literally just existing in the world.
And it's a fucking problem. And so when you are
also I'm also an only child, you know, Like also,
so I didn't have like built in support systems outside
of my mom, you know, I didn't have like that
that brother sister support system. And so I've all always
spelt like the outsider. I've always been an outlier.

Speaker 3 (08:03):
You know.

Speaker 2 (08:03):
It's always interesting when people call me the meaner. I say,
I must have turned into a bad bitch because I
was flat tested and loud for a really long time.
Like I was always the bullied one. I've been bullied
for all type of shit. But when you ask, like
why does that bother you, it's because no one wants
to be invalidated. I don't think anyone is really okay
with that. And I think that also as a black woman,

(08:25):
we are always kind of put in this position of appeasement,
and how do you not disrupt the space?

Speaker 1 (08:31):
How do you not disrupt the space?

Speaker 2 (08:33):
And if you're gonna not like me, I would at
least like it to be for a legit reason, and
I'm so happy to be in this space with you because,
to be honest, like I've spent so much time trying
to convince people, Shannon, trying to convince people of like no, no,
that's not what it is.

Speaker 1 (08:49):
That's not what it is. And it's like I'm I'm
off it.

Speaker 3 (08:51):
Yeah, I'm off it.

Speaker 2 (08:55):
There is the truth, there is my truth, and a
lot of times baby is the same. And one of
the reasons why you can see that is because when
I recount a story, I want you to notice this.
When I recount stories, I don't. I very rarely include
my feelings. It's never I felt that this person did this.
I thought that this person did this. It's like reading
Game of Thrones.

Speaker 3 (09:15):
Gave him this.

Speaker 1 (09:16):
He's just giving you the sequence of events.

Speaker 2 (09:18):
You don't see the feelings of Catlan Stark at the
fucking Red wedding until you watch the show, because in
the writing, it is just a series of events. That
is part of my autism. I speak in directs, I
speak in linear spaces, I speak in literals. That's part
of the reason why people don't like me neither, because
I'm literal and I take things literally. So if you

(09:40):
say to me I'm gonna be there at five, I'm like,
why you ain't here at five?

Speaker 1 (09:43):
They're like, well, I'm at five ish.

Speaker 2 (09:44):
Well you should have said five is because I was
waiting for you at five.

Speaker 3 (09:49):
So let me ask you this. How old were you
when you got diagnosed? And did you always feel that
you was different and you felt something was wrong? Well,
what's today today is Thursday the eighteenth, so.

Speaker 2 (10:05):
Forty two, and however many days until I was just
recently diagnosed. And this came out of this situation because
so many black women who are autistic said to me,
I see you you need to And I've always thought that.
I've always thought you can look at other interviews I
have mentioned before, like I think I'm on the spectrum
because I'm an eighties baby. This was not really a

(10:29):
part of the narrative. And as we started seeing more
about autism, and you start seeing shows about different characters,
and I start learning more, like from people like Holly
Robinson Pete, I'm like, this feels really like me. But
then you know, I think sometimes we're afraid to learn

(10:52):
certain things.

Speaker 3 (10:53):
Yeah, So sixties and seventies baby just got who up
and put in the bed, and to.

Speaker 2 (10:59):
Be honest, it's true. And to be honest, I just
want to say, like, Mom, so in this revelation, my
mother started looking up like symptoms of artistic children and
was like, oh, you exhibited all of this. But I
didn't know what to do with this. She's a single parent,

(11:20):
she's trying to figure it out. But I really just
thank my mom because what my mom couldn't show up
for me emotionally, I realized that she was able to,
at the very least that's not even fair to say,
she was able to still let me be who I
am instead of beating it out of me, right, which
happens to so many kids who are misunderstood, you know,

(11:42):
like and she's West Indian Elijah Paul Grada at myself
and so like I'm over here being this precocious, you know,
little quacious child that's almost talking, telling her like, why
are you letting up just do all this talking and
all of that?

Speaker 1 (11:55):
Why she's she's do fresh?

Speaker 2 (11:57):
She do fresh? Why are you doing all? Why are
you letting her just run? She motes, And my mom
is like, that's Amanda, Like let her live and most
let's be real, most pair of what happened. No, shut
it up. If my father had lived with me, I
would never have been the person I am now because
he wouldn't have He wouldn't have been able to handle it.

Speaker 1 (12:15):
And I believe that he is autistic too.

Speaker 2 (12:17):
He's a brilliant No, because he's brilliant, He's just he
was never seen the way he needed to be seen,
and so it turned into narcissism.

Speaker 3 (12:25):
But you can be brilliant without being autistic though, right.

Speaker 2 (12:28):
Oh yeah, absolutely, but just because I'm both. But he
gifted and autistic.

Speaker 3 (12:35):
Yes, But Amanda, sometimes you know, just because you have
a special gift, that doesn't mean that you know you
have a spectrum or you have a uh. Just because
you see things differently, it doesn't mean that you're on
the spectrum or you.

Speaker 2 (12:50):
This isn't related to simply how I see things. This
is related how my brain functions.

Speaker 3 (12:53):
Yes, but just because your brain, just because your brain
functions differently from say mind, Yes, so you feel just
because your brain functions differently, that that's what caused it.
Or there's a clinical diagnosis.

Speaker 2 (13:07):
There are clinical diagnoses or you yes, there are clinical
diagnoses for autism. Yet you when you take the test.
I see when you take the test, you're like, holda
Like this is I've been thinking my whole life that
this was a problem. Like the fact that when I
the fact that I have to I have to doodle,

(13:28):
I have to draw all the time. I have to
be doing things all the time to be stimulated. It's
literally called stimming. Like the fact that when I'm a baby,
I'm not I have to rock like in a child pose,
like literally rock, and my mom would be like, what
why is she doing that? We find out later this
is stimming. This is her literally dealing with her anxiety
in a self soothing way.

Speaker 1 (13:46):
The fact that even little things like if there.

Speaker 2 (13:48):
Was a bowl of penis right here, I would be
lining them up in a row. I'd be lining them
up in a row like this. These are these are
small things that are indicative of like your brain functions
in a very particular way, and that functionality also displays
itself in your behavior, right, so it and it's also
atypical to the way that our society functions. So for instance,

(14:10):
like this society is very keen on people performing. There's
all this phoniness all the time, right, Yes, and when
you are autistic you literally are unable to even catch
these certain social cues. There have been twice in my
life where I was in a fight and I didn't
know I was about to be in a fight because

(14:31):
because I just didn't understand the social cues. I literally
didn't understand what was happening. You know, I'm thinking, like
they said, come outside, and I'm like, what's up? And
then I get punched in the fucking face. For the record,
I won the fight.

Speaker 3 (14:45):
You let her get out, she got on first, and
you still won. Yes, sir, damn got squabble skills like that.

Speaker 1 (14:52):
I have rage.

Speaker 2 (14:54):
Oh, I have rage.

Speaker 1 (14:58):
I'm very strong, like freakishly.

Speaker 3 (15:01):
You're single.

Speaker 1 (15:03):
Yes, you want to talk about.

Speaker 3 (15:05):
It, We're gonna talk about We're gonna talk about it later.
So I'm Lenna ask you this. So there are a
lot of parent teacher conferences with you.

Speaker 2 (15:14):
Huh, yes, but not for what? Well, what do you
think they were about?

Speaker 3 (15:19):
Uh, you're excessive talking? Maybe the doodling, funnily enough.

Speaker 2 (15:26):
No, you know what the parent teacher conferences are about.
What Amanda is sticking up for other kids in the class.
Amanda is correcting me like I had a teacher, miss
Schwank who had who called a conference because she was
talking about Aboriginal art and she said that the She's
stood in front the class and said, you know that

(15:46):
the Aborigines are astone age people. And I was like, ma'am,
there are Aboriginals alive right now, like they are a
part of civilization, Like what are you talking about? And
she's like, well, no, you know what I mean is
that they've never advanced. And we're in a classroom in Orlando, Florida,
so like if we don't check this type of stuff,

(16:07):
it's gonna just continue. So I was that student, like
I was the kid who was always raising my hand
and just wasn't easily appeased by simply just someone being
an authority, right, And my was I always I love
this because when she called my mom and said, you know,

(16:28):
I'd like to set a conference up because I have
some complaints about Amanda, my mom said, well, you know
that's interesting because Amanda has some complaints about you. And
so they came to the meeting and it was my
mom and mister Wright and miss Circe's all black people
at Doctor Phillis High School in Orlando, Florida. And this
lady sat there and she and actually you and mister

(16:51):
Wright had the same bill. And mister Wright was like,
all right, so you know, we're here to discuss Amanda
disrupting the class with her talking.

Speaker 1 (16:59):
And she was like, no, Amanda.

Speaker 2 (17:01):
Doesn't disrupt the class. They're talking. She actually helps the
other students out. He's like, oh, okay, so is it
about her grades? And she's like, actually no, one of
her art pieces is featured in our exhibit at the library.
He's like, so what are we here for. She's like, well,
you know, she corrects me in front of the class,
and these three black people are like, here we go
with this racist bullshit, you know, because that's really what

(17:22):
it is.

Speaker 1 (17:22):
We're in Florida in the eighties and the nineties.

Speaker 3 (17:25):
But let me ask you do this. Let me ask
you this. Okay, if you do you think she would
have felt equally of offended if a white kid, cause
I'm assuming this teacher was white, right, if a would
have a white child would have corrected her. I think
most teachers would feel some type of way if a
child corrects them.

Speaker 2 (17:45):
That's not for me to surmise. I'm just saying that
my experience was this lady giving wrong information.

Speaker 1 (17:51):
Yeah, and I'm allowed to correct her.

Speaker 2 (17:52):
Now. This is the same lady who tried to accuse
me of stealing and when a white girl said, no,
Amanda didn't steal it. I did, she was like, well,
I think both of you need to go the principle.

Speaker 3 (18:01):
Right.

Speaker 2 (18:01):
I'm in Orlando, Florida, which is a notoriously racist state,
Florida in the nineties, and I'm talking to you about
a white woman who is speaking about black people, indigenous
people in a country where those same indigenous people have
had all of their land taken from them by former
criminals that were sent there from England. And she is
calling them stone age people. And I, as a black girl,

(18:24):
the only black girl in her class, am correcting her.

Speaker 3 (18:27):
But my thing is, you're right, she possibly misspoke or
she didn't know's.

Speaker 2 (18:33):
My question to you is, why do you even feel
compelled at this juncture in this interview? Why would you
even feel compelled to try.

Speaker 3 (18:42):
To because I don't want I'm not defending, But my
thing is is that what I'm trying to say, most adults,
when kids correct them or speak feel some type of way.
This is not unique to a black, white, or white black.
That's all I'm saying. I'm sorry that you took it
that way. But I remember when I was growing up,

(19:04):
my grandparents and parents says, hey, kids, stay in your place.
Adults are speaking. That's all I don't Maybe that didn't
happen where you were forming in Orlando, Florida, but where
I grew up and when I grew up, kids did
not correct adults. So I apologized. If you think I

(19:25):
thought it came up as combative, no, Grama, let's get
into your acting. You've been at this game for a
long time. You started in nineteen ninety three as a
child actor. Was that something that you always wanted to do?

Speaker 2 (19:41):
Nothing that I always wanted to do. I mean I
started dance very very young. In nineteen eighty nine. I
was on Disney.

Speaker 1 (19:51):
Well, no, I was sorry.

Speaker 2 (19:53):
In nineteen ninety went to an audition for Disney because
they had something called the Sparkling Christian Spectacular at Disney
World in Orlando, and my mom was like, I think
you should go on auditions. So I went in auditions
and I made it, which I was not expecting to do.
It was like fifteen hundred kids dancing and I made it,
and I'm like, okay, and even though you're gonna probably

(20:13):
have an issue with this, they were racist. So when
I was at Disney, yes, and I was in the
situation at Disney, I was there as the only black
girl and there was a whole crew. It's like twelve
of us, twelve of us, And so I was called
an N word right there while I was there.

Speaker 1 (20:32):
And I was.

Speaker 2 (20:34):
Also bullied while I was there because I was told
that you're only here because you're black. You can't really dance,
You're just here because you're black, So don't get any ideas.
So that's why I'm being told by the other children.
Does that suffice as racist to you or would you
want to call it something else? Is that just kids
being mean?

Speaker 3 (20:48):
That's yeah, the kids. So let me ask you a question.
As a child, do you never said anything derogatory? You
was just this model citizen as a child. I mean children. Now,
we taught in children, not function and adults. Now, if
you told me the adults parents were telling you this,
or the execs or people that in charge of Disney
are telling you this, I could agree with it. But

(21:09):
at eighty nine, you're probably eight nine years of age.
Maybe younger.

Speaker 2 (21:18):
So you have no problem with the children that were
cursing out Ruby Bridges and the Little Rock nine you
think that do you think that was just them being kids?

Speaker 3 (21:27):
Kids can two things can be true. Kids can be
kids and not function as an adult, and things can
be wrong. And sometimes when kids say things, they're repeating
what they heard their parents say. They don't know it's wrong.

Speaker 2 (21:40):
So what about the children who are receiving it that
know it's wrong.

Speaker 1 (21:43):
That does that not much?

Speaker 3 (21:44):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (21:45):
Yes, I'm so if I'm if I'm ten and I'm
receiving that treatment and i know it's wrong, does it
make my experience of it.

Speaker 3 (21:53):
It doesn't make it.

Speaker 2 (21:55):
So that's what we're here to talk about. My experience. Yes,
from my experience is that I experienced that and it
was difficult.

Speaker 1 (22:03):
So that's the valid part of this.

Speaker 2 (22:05):
I'm not here to protect those people because it's irrelevant conversation.
So when I'm talking about me being on this dance show,
I was there and it was there was other kids
there who were actually really kind and they had been
in like the business. And so for instance, I shout
out to Melissa Salimony, her grandmother. They were well, they

(22:28):
were not rich, and a lot of other kids were
really rich, and so they got they got pushed to
decide because they wasn't rich. So her mom and her
grandma and my mom like really like they kind of
found each other. And that's where I learned about headshots
and resumes and agents, et cetera. And I was able

(22:48):
to get an agent from that. So then I start
auditioning and I'm like booking stuff and it's like, oh,
all this precociousness is actually being put to good use.
And then I booked, Like my first big job was

(23:09):
cop and a half. Okay, I was Katie. And I
remember being at my fifth grade trip to a Kaiva
riverwalk and my mom pulling up and was like, we
got to go to this audition. I'm like, come on,
we're about to go on to nature hike and she's

(23:30):
just like, no, we have to go.

Speaker 1 (23:31):
I really think we should go. So I'm just like, h.

Speaker 2 (23:34):
So I was never like the child actor, like the
typical child actor like, and my mom was never like
she was never a mamager. She was more so just
like you know, it's like if you don't want to
practice piano, but your parents know that practicing piano is
good for you.

Speaker 1 (23:49):
Like that's really what it was.

Speaker 2 (23:50):
It was like, you don't want to go, but I
know this is good for you, and I'm the parent,
so we gonna go.

Speaker 3 (23:55):
So you so you said you were like a normal
So you did normal things like a normal child. You
didn't have like you didn't get home school because you
was on this show and you did this. You were
shooting three or four times, you know, four or five
times a week. You had a normal life as a child.

Speaker 1 (24:10):
Yeah, And my mom was very about that.

Speaker 2 (24:12):
So like my brother and me when I was on
My Brother and Me on Nickelodeon, I was only supposed
to be on two episodes, but they really liked my
work and so they said, Okay, we're going to write
her into the whole show. So my mom was like,
well what does that mean? And they were like, well,
that means we're going to do fifteen episodes. No, it
was twelve episodes, but I'm only in ten because my
mom was like, well, she has a trip with her aunt.

Speaker 3 (24:35):
So how did you feel about that?

Speaker 2 (24:36):
Fine? Because I was never about like this. This was
a hobby. It was a hobby for me at that age.
I was a gymnast that was what I was more
interested in. I'm like, I got to miss well Bella Caarola.

Speaker 3 (24:47):
Wasn't coming to your school to get you to sign
you out of school, Amanda.

Speaker 2 (24:51):
No, but my coach was picking me up from school
to take me to the gym. I went to Orlando Metro.
Shout out to Jeff and Christy. Yeah, I mean I
was a gymnast for real, for real.

Speaker 3 (25:00):
So but I'm not sure I know what I'm saying.
I'm saying, like Nickelodeon, this this was a paying job.
I'm assuming it doesn't matter.

Speaker 2 (25:06):
I'm a child. Remember how children have you know different things? Yes,
how we understand things, So it didn't matter to me.
I cared about gymnastics.

Speaker 3 (25:13):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (25:14):
So literally, like when I was going into the audition
for for Nickelodeon. You you had to do this long
walk from the parking lot to the audition, and I
just remember crying that whole walk because I was mad
because the coach had said that day that I could
work out with the level eights, and my mom said, no,
we got to go to this audition, and I was
just like, you want to work out with the level ads?

Speaker 1 (25:33):
But I booked the show.

Speaker 3 (25:35):
So at the time the Nickelodeon was going on, I said,
Britney Spirit of Amandabines and Rockers. Did you did you
meet any of these?

Speaker 2 (25:43):
No?

Speaker 3 (25:43):
Did you? Did you know any did you know anything
about it? Did you know any other child actors?

Speaker 2 (25:49):
Well, the ones that were on the show with me,
But I wasn't. I mean I was very insolent. Remember
I wasn't out here either. This was in Orlando, okay,
So like we shot on the same soundstage at as
all that for a little bit, but we never met
any of them. Like literally, it was just like in passing.
Then they left and Galla Gala Island took over. But
you're very insulated, I mean you're not really like I

(26:11):
mean also like it's not like I'm the star of
the show, you know, so I'm not going to I
don't even think they had like Nickelodeon Kid's Choice Awards
or things at that time. But we only did one season.
I mean they played the season for seven years, right,
you know, But it wasn't like.

Speaker 1 (26:26):
And again, like I didn't have a mamajer.

Speaker 2 (26:28):
I didn't have like a publicist, and you know, there's
like a lot of kids in those situations, their parents
are seeing them as you know you yes, you the
meal ticket work. Your mom never viewed you is then
my mom is dropping me off at work so she
can go to work, you know, so I'd be on set,
you know, by myself. But I was just super duper
dupa duper fortunate that you know, we were taking care

(26:50):
of we were protected. You know, when you see this
documentary quite on the set, you just feel so so
you feel so sad. Is such a generous it is
such a not accurate work, but you just feel so
bad that these children were not protected and they should
have been protected by the adults that were around them.
And I was.

Speaker 1 (27:07):
I was protected.

Speaker 2 (27:08):
And the creators of the show, Calvin Brown Junior and
a Lunga Adele, like they were really not playing around
with the blackness, like everybody was black on this damn show.
And that was essentially why the show actually did not
go forward because they wanted them to coon it up.

Speaker 1 (27:23):
And you know, there was this kind of trend remember
with JJ and.

Speaker 2 (27:27):
That don't like they wanted them to go that route
and they was like, nah, we're not doing that, Like
this is about a black family, Like let them just
be a black family and so for me, it was
very uh, it was a dope experience. But I'm very
proud though that at one point they had called parent
conferences with the with the director.

Speaker 3 (27:47):
What did you do?

Speaker 2 (27:49):
And so no, with everybody they had they were like,
the kids is acting up, so we're gonna have parent conferences,
and so everybody's looking at their moms like you know,
what's going to happen? And I just, you know, I
was like, I don't know what this is about. And
I'm very proud that I was sitting outside and my
mom was in and out and I was like, why
was it so short? She said, because when I went

(28:09):
in there that mine said A mine does great. So
this whole Amanda's difficult to work with narrative.

Speaker 1 (28:18):
Is fascinating to me. It's fascinating truly.

Speaker 3 (28:23):
So as you said, you only did this for a year.
You were big into gymnastics. You really like gymnastics, and
like child acting was kind of like a hobby. But
do you look back on it or if you ever have,
did you like ever want your own show when you
were a child, or did you look back on and said, damn,
maybe I could have never.

Speaker 2 (28:45):
Never, I never wanted my own show I had a
really fulfilling life. Yeah, you know, like I'm in gymnastics,
I'm doing the child acting. I'm also you know, I'm
thriving in academics. You know, my mom's got me in
like extracurricular programs. I get to travel with my aunt,
you know, just do others. She married a white man,

(29:05):
so we started doing white people activities. So now I'm
doing scuba diving and skiing and shit, a I'm in Colorado.
You know, I'm just getting a whole other experience, and
you know, for all intents and purposes. And I just
want to also just bring this to light for you,
because this is going to be a theme throughout this interview.
I am a scholar of race. I'm not just someone
who experiences it. I'm a scholar.

Speaker 1 (29:26):
I'm an academic of race.

Speaker 2 (29:28):
So I see the world through a particular lens because
I am skilled at doing so, and because I'm an
expert at doing so.

Speaker 1 (29:34):
Like my master's isn't just in African American studies.

Speaker 2 (29:37):
It's the fact that I was taught by some of
the greatest thought leaders of our time. So when you
hear me say these things, I would just like to
ask that because you have someone who is an expert
sitting in front of you to just consider versus be combative,
because there may be an opportunity here to see something differently,
because you have someone with you who is not just

(29:58):
experiencing race, is also examining and there's a different there's
a different intellectualism about that, you know what I mean,
different eduditionalism about that. And I say that also because
that's why I went and got my masters. I went
and got my master's because I know that we live
in a world that loves to try and find ways
to undermine Black people's minds. They love to find ways
to undermine black people's intellect. Look at this DEI bullshit.

(30:21):
This DEI bullshit is trying is trying to state that
in order to include black people, we have to lower
the standard, which is unconscionable. Because if black people with
no schooling were able to build the White House, if
black people with no schooling were able to create all
of these beautiful spirituals that we still sing to this day,

(30:42):
if black people with no schooling were able to till
these fields and know the ways of agriculture enough to
create the actual, the actual bread basket of this nation.
Then you're telling me that their their descendants are not
smart enough to get into Harvard without you lowering a standard.
That's because DEI and affirmative action is not about lowering

(31:03):
the standards, about expanding the opportunity. So I went and
got my master's so that when I am in spaces
and I do bring up race and I talk about
these things, it's not just based on experience, it's based
on actual study.

Speaker 3 (31:17):
Okay, I'll also ask that because if I don't see
things exactly as you see them, I don't expect you to.
Don't take it as being combative combative. You see things
one way, I might see it a different way. That
doesn't mean I'm being combative.

Speaker 2 (31:32):
I would say it's combative when there's an undermining of
how someone sees something.

Speaker 3 (31:37):
But why are you trying to undermine how I see it?

Speaker 1 (31:39):
Because it's my experience.

Speaker 3 (31:41):
Okay, Well I'm telling you I have but I'm saying, see,
you take it as if I don't agree with you,
I'm being combative.

Speaker 1 (31:46):
No, I don't.

Speaker 2 (31:47):
I take it as if I have an experience and
you're telling me that my experience isn't what it is
you're telling me that my thinking somebody is racist who
I was in a classroom with for a year that
you have never met.

Speaker 1 (32:00):
You are you are?

Speaker 2 (32:01):
You are emitting doubt upon that because you because of
your own experiences.

Speaker 3 (32:05):
No, I said, I was talking about the teacher and you,
And I said, I could have believed. I believe based
on my experience. Experience and a lot of people is
that kids correct. An adult, no matter what society it is,
is frowned the plum. That's what I was saying. You

(32:27):
took it too that I'm trying to minimize your experience
and say, well, I'm defending her when I wasn't.

Speaker 2 (32:33):
I think there's something worth saying that that could come
off that way and it should be something to consider.

Speaker 3 (32:38):
Well, well, say again, you're gonna consider it your way
because you see things, like you said, you see things
through your prism.

Speaker 2 (32:44):
Okay, Uh, I think it's fascinating to watch you accuse
me of doing the thing that you're doing. No, I
think it's it's fascinating.

Speaker 3 (32:53):
This is you, this is your interview. So I won't
interject what I thought. But anyway, your mom is white.

Speaker 2 (33:01):
Mother is not white. People keep saying my mother is.

Speaker 3 (33:06):
She's West Indian. Soul is a.

Speaker 2 (33:08):
Black woman from Grenada, which is a black island.

Speaker 3 (33:12):
She married a white man.

Speaker 2 (33:13):
No, she did not.

Speaker 3 (33:14):
You say you started doing white things.

Speaker 1 (33:16):
My aunt married a white man.

Speaker 2 (33:17):
That's what I said.

Speaker 1 (33:18):
I said, my aunt married a white man. No, mother is.

Speaker 2 (33:23):
A black woman.

Speaker 3 (33:24):
Misunderstood.

Speaker 2 (33:25):
Well, listen, I get attacked for this, and people try
to undermine the validity of my voice and my my
even my access to blackness on a regular basis by
trying to make up this thing that my mother is
a white woman. Okay, my mother is a black woman
from Grenada. Grenada is so black that Maurice Bishop said
in a speech that the FBI was worried about Grenada

(33:49):
more than they were about Cuba, because if Grenada really
did become communists, they could influence Black Americans because we
are black and speak English. That's how black Grenada is.

Speaker 3 (34:01):
Well that that's on me.

Speaker 2 (34:02):
If your father is black from Roxbury, Boston.

Speaker 3 (34:05):
That's on me. Because when I heard marriage, I didn't.
I didn't hear the part that you said. It was
it was your aunt that marriage. So okay, good, we're good.
That that we're good. So so what made you after
you did you received it from the spotlight after you
did my brother and me?

Speaker 2 (34:21):
Well, I didn't receive it. I just was a kid
that just was other things that you didn think I
was in the spotlight when I did my brother and me.
I mean, you have to understand it was really Like
first of all, it was five minutes from my house. Yeah,
It's literally the universe was five minutes from my house.
I literally would just drive over it. It was across the.

Speaker 1 (34:37):
Street from my high school.

Speaker 2 (34:38):
So you really could have walked, Yeah, like I could.
I mean it was so it wasn't as I mean
the other kids on there that were from LA I mean,
they had to travel from La, like, so there's a
much bigger experience attached to it for them, whereas I'm
just like going down the block to do a TV
show for a few months, but have a.

Speaker 3 (34:55):
Pretty big deal. Amanda. I mean, did kids treat you
differently knowing that you were like like, Okay, that's a
pretty big deal, look at Amanda.

Speaker 2 (35:02):
Yes, but I think I didn't make it a big deal.
So you know, that's kind of how I've always operated, Like,
I like, it's like I don't think like even when
people tell me I'm a celebrity. I'm just like, I
don't consider myself a celebrity, Like I don't move that
way like people will people see me by myself and
be like you by yourself, and it's like that's just

(35:22):
kind of like I just don't do the hullabaloo, right,
But no, So I just I mean I did the show.
I went back to eight and I went to eighth grade,
and you know, there wasn't like it's not like Orlando
was like a big industry, right. So after that, I
went to eighth grade and then I really got into gymnastics,
and I just really that was my passion. I mean,

(35:45):
to this day, I'm obsessed with gymnastics. I mean, people
know that I love me some gymnastics. We just saw
our first gymnast from an HBCU win the Nationals, which
I just think is incredible and shout out to Fisk,
and so I just went It wasn't that I received
from the spotlight. It was more so that I just
went on with. Yeah, I just went all my life,

(36:08):
you know, And then I went to Performing Arts High School. Okay,
Doctor Phillips is one of the greatest high schools of
all time. So we were clear. I mean, our alumni
are like Wayne Brady and Joey Fatone and Louis Fonce
and Eddie Wong. I mean we've got you know, my
homeboy Michael Scott, who is the genie in a Laddin
on Broadway.

Speaker 1 (36:26):
Like, we just have a really beautiful legacy.

Speaker 4 (36:28):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (36:29):
And so that's where I went to high school, and
so I was really shaped I would say, by my
gymnastics coach, my teacher, and like the head of the
director of the theater program in high school, Can Rigerio,
and my mother, Like these three people really shaped me.
And these were people that yelled a lot, like you
were being yelled at. You are being you are expected

(36:51):
to be perfect. I had to exhibit a high level
of professionalism from like a very young age, which is
also why when people say a man is difficult to
work with, I just laugh, because like I've always been.
I mean I've been paying taxes since I was eight.
I've been in this business for so long. And then
even when I was in spaces that weren't professional spaces,
you were expected to carry yourself. I mean, you've played

(37:11):
high level sports, so you're expected to be obedient. You know,
you're expected to show up ready to work. You know,
you're expected to be self motivated. You know it's not
enough for your coaches, chare you want you better be
able to do it whether they're there or is motivated. Yes,
So that is gymnastics, and that was theater, and theater
at my school was like football at FSU. I mean

(37:32):
it's top notch at UF and so like, that's what
I come from. I come from people expecting you to
be at your best when they're not looking. That's where
I come from, and that's how I have always operated.

(37:52):
But you know, you go through life and you realize
that's not how everybody operate.

Speaker 3 (37:56):
Yeah. I think that's the biggest mistake that we make
because we we want to see in others as we
say ourselves, I show up on time. Why can't you
show up on time? I did this? Signmon, why can't
you do this? Simon? I did this? Why can't you
do that?

Speaker 2 (38:10):
It takes time to get grace. It takes time to
learn grace. It takes time to understand the beauty and
difference versus the frustration. We also don't live in a
tolerant society. No, we're very taught, we're very much taught
individualism and this idea that what I say goes what

(38:30):
you keep accusing me of, which.

Speaker 1 (38:31):
Is not true.

Speaker 2 (38:33):
But there's really something so great that you learn in maturity,
which is how to identify people who have like differences
from you and people who are harmful to you, right,
And like that's the dance I think for a lot
of us. But I really just thank those people because
they gave me discipline, and they gave me my own discipline.

(38:58):
Like I didn't have to be disciplined by them, you
know what I'm saying. Like they taught me regimen. They
taught me discipline. And when you are somebody who is
an independent thinker, when you're somebody who's an outlier who
goes against the grain, you better have mo fucking discipline
because you're gonna be by yourself a lot.

Speaker 3 (39:17):
But you said, and you know say, you say, this
society teaches you individualism. But I thought it. I thought
you were supposed to be an individual standout while being
able to blend in. Am I wrong?

Speaker 2 (39:29):
So you know, colonial society teaches individualism over community. It's
basically when I say individualism in this context, I'm referring
to like the quest for self, Like, as long as
I'm winning, it don't matter about anybody else, right that idea.

Speaker 3 (39:43):
Okay, okay, now okay.

Speaker 2 (39:44):
It's like people who will say, like racism doesn't exist
because I succeeded, and like there's so many factors that
had to come into play for me to succeed. Right.
So there's I come from a middle class home. I
was very fortunate to be very smart. I'm light skinned,
I behaved, I was well behaved. I had really, really

(40:06):
really good educators that cared about me. Right, I could
have been born ten miles away and had educators that
saw me as a nuisance. Right, and then they put
me in fucking disciplinary classes, et cetera, et cetera. Right,
I with somebody who was very able to very quickly
pick up on like, oh, I can't get in trouble,

(40:28):
I can't have a low credit score, Like I have
to be perfect, perfect, perfect perfect, So like in order
for me to succeed, I had to be and we
all noticed, I mean, we listened to Popapope on scandal Scandal,
you have to be ten you have to be ten
steps perfect then everybody else.

Speaker 1 (40:44):
So you know, irregardless of.

Speaker 2 (40:48):
The racism, you, it's indicative of the fact that you
know you've had to be so flawless to get there right,
and it shouldn't be that way. So the individual is
more so this idea that if one person makes it,
then it's an indicator that the system or the institution

(41:08):
doesn't exist.

Speaker 3 (41:09):
But if you know, I tell people this, you can
be good at any game if you understand the rules,
if you know that you have to be ten steps better.
Isn't it easier because you know this going in without
having to find it out expost factor, like after the fact.
So you knew that Amanda has to be ten times

(41:30):
better than her counterpart, so you prepared yourself to be
ten times better, to be more prepared, to be more disciplined,
to be more dedicated, to be more informed.

Speaker 2 (41:41):
I don't know if I would say it's easier, though,
I mean I think easier. I don't know that that's
the word I would use. I mean I think it's
I mean, I guess there's something to be said for
like when you have a guide, right, there's you know,
you're given a bit more to the game.

Speaker 3 (41:56):
But I think it's easier to take a test if
it's an open book testing the thousand percent.

Speaker 2 (42:01):
But if you still don't know where to find it
in the book, you still ask out because you never
read the book in the first place. So I think
the other thing was having people around me that knew
how to find.

Speaker 1 (42:10):
It in the Book of Mew.

Speaker 2 (42:12):
Like, if it says that I got to be that
much smarter, I still have to learn how to access
my intellect.

Speaker 3 (42:16):
Right.

Speaker 2 (42:17):
If it says I need to be more regimented, more
regiment more disciplined, I still have to know the tools
on how to do that. It's like when you have
to learn, like, you know, like when you'd have to
take like notes taking you Like, I got to take
a class on how to take notes. Yeah, yeah, because
if you don't know how to take notes exactly, then
you wasting your time.

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Speaker 3 (43:46):
You go to college, Why do you go so far away?

Speaker 2 (43:54):
I was always a New Yorker. I just feel like
that was my tribe. Like, I feel like I was
born in a different place than I felt comfortable when
I got to New York. When I went to New
York for the first time when I was twelve, I
was like.

Speaker 3 (44:13):
Huh, I've been here my whole life.

Speaker 2 (44:15):
Yes, my people. And also there was a cultural difference
in New York. So my directness that I had always
been vilified for that people would tell me from a
young age, like, You're You're rude, You're mean, just because
I'm direct. In New York, that was the culture. So
I just felt also a certain level of acceptance immediately

(44:37):
because I'm hearing people talk how I talk and they're
not being vilified for it, They're not being put in
a corner for it.

Speaker 3 (44:44):
You fed in?

Speaker 2 (44:44):
Huh, you fit in? But you fit in, you know
what I'm saying. I fit in because I felt normal
and I had not felt normal, and as a child,
not feeling normal feels terrible, right, And even with hip hop,
my fascination I feel like with hip hop was that
I'm hearing people spit and talk in a way that

(45:08):
I exist. Like when you hear interviews with MC light
and Queen Latifa, they talking like this, you know, I'm saying,
this is how New York is talk, and I'm like,
that's how I talk. I talk just like that. But
I'm from a place in Orlando where they want me
to talk like this. And if I don't talk like this,
then I'm not feminine. If I don't talk like this,
I'm not sweet, I'm not kind.

Speaker 1 (45:26):
And it's like.

Speaker 2 (45:30):
The amount of effort it takes for me to talk
like this. It also is just not who It's just
not who I am. Right, So I really loved New
York and also so at the time, the top three
schools for theater were NYU, well in order, Juilliard, Sunny Purchase,

(45:54):
and NYU. And I was again, I was at Doctor
Phillips and we were a theater school, and it was
this legacy that people, you know, it was a big
deal and where's everybody going to school? Where's everybody going
to school? And so I got into Purchase. I got
a call back to Julliard, but I got into Purchase,
I got into NYU, I got into like the other

(46:18):
schools that I auditioned forward to Paul and SMU, and
going to Purchase was my dream. I mean that was
really like where I really really really wanted to go.
And I talked about this in my new book Body
Waving through the Bullshit, which is coming out in twenty
twenty five, but I talk about just how like going

(46:39):
to Purchase was like this culmination of like all the
work that I'd been doing getting in here was it.
And then I got there and I was like, ooh,
I don't know about these I don't know, because ultimately
what we were doing in high school was actually low key,

(46:59):
more advanced wow, then what we were doing at Purchase.
I mean at Doctor Phellis were doing five shows a year.
We're not just doing the music man and calling it
a rap. So we were in a conservatory in high school.
So when I got to Purchase, it was a wild
time because one also, like I went through my growth

(47:22):
spurt the summer before I went to Purchase. So I
had been like this little, loud, little person, like a
well small person, I should say, for a long time.
And then it was like all of a sudden, like
I had, you know, some height and some woman. This's
about me, you know, And now I'm going to this
school and I'm like these are men, these are like
full grown men, Like these are not boys, there are men,

(47:44):
and again social cues and awkwardness, and I'm trying to
figure it out, and I'm you know, I'm in this city.
But the first night that I was at Purchase, everybody
would like gather on the mall and ciphers would start
the first night every year, and I just remember watching
people just stand in cipher's and rap and I was like,

(48:08):
oh my god, I am in the right place.

Speaker 1 (48:10):
Now. What it turned out to be was that.

Speaker 2 (48:14):
I ended up getting kicked out of the conservatory.

Speaker 3 (48:17):
Tell me why.

Speaker 2 (48:19):
So part of the I guess, the way that these
schools retain their like their status is by who they
by how many people they cut every year. And so
because of that, like, there's certain people that would do
things to try to avoid from getting cut. And so
one of the guys in my class felt like he

(48:42):
was going to get cut, so he decided to try
to sacrifice me so.

Speaker 1 (48:47):
That he wouldn't get cut.

Speaker 2 (48:48):
So he created a story and he told the teacher
a lie. He told her that I was listening to
my headphones in class, which I was not. But she
was already a batty lady anyway. And again, I'm the
only black girl in my class, So like, you're just
a very easy target. And I've been writing about this,
so I've been talking to my classmates and just we're

(49:09):
just thinking back on like the type of shit that
used to get said.

Speaker 1 (49:13):
And she just lost it. I mean she lost it.

Speaker 2 (49:16):
She was like, I can't believe this.

Speaker 4 (49:18):
I can't believe you would be here listening to your headphones.

Speaker 1 (49:21):
You are the attention span.

Speaker 2 (49:23):
Of a three year old. You are never gonna make it. Mind,
you have already been on shows.

Speaker 3 (49:29):
But but can she see you in the class, like,
I mean, if you should just look, I mean, would
you have one hundred students in your class? She could
have just looked out there like, well I had twenty?
What damn it? It ain't that hard to see who has
old headphones or who? I mean, they were big back then.
They don't have the little the little pause that you.

Speaker 2 (49:47):
And I Hell, now, what would you deduce? Why would
she just flip out?

Speaker 3 (49:58):
That would lead me to expect elation, conjecture in u
in though, So you were there, I mean, had you
had any run ins with this teacher prior to this?
So you were a model student in class.

Speaker 1 (50:10):
Straight a's straight a's, every class straight as and.

Speaker 3 (50:15):
That one incident possibly led to you.

Speaker 2 (50:19):
So then she goes on a mission to get me
kicked out of the conservatory. And you can, I mean,
you can look at the transcript and it's just like
so all of her reviews up until this point stellar, stellar, amazing, amazing, amazing,
and then all of a sudden, there's no excuse.

Speaker 1 (50:36):
I don't know, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (50:37):
That's why I'm asking you. I don't know. But she
definitely went the distance and she got me kicked out,
and I appealed. The two heads of the conservatory at
the time were two brothers, Dean Herbie and the late
Israel Hicks.

Speaker 1 (50:52):
And I appealed.

Speaker 2 (50:54):
And I had I asked everyone in my class that
they would be willing to write a letter in my defense.
Even the fucking who lied wrote a letter in my
defense because now he felt bad. And the head of
the appeals process said, we can't take the word of
twenty five students over a tenured professor. So what we're

(51:16):
going to do is we will reduce your sentence from
an expulsion to a suspension, so you can take a
year off and then come back. What so, because this
is a conservatory within a liberal arts school, you have
like what's called your core classes that you got to take,

(51:37):
you know, R. So basically I was allowed to go
take my core classes and then come back to the
Conservatory the next year. But during that year where I
was taking my core classes, I realized I didn't want
to go back to the Dustys Conservatory. They could keep that,

(51:58):
and so then I was like, I'm gonna drop out
of school.

Speaker 1 (52:02):
I'm gon quit school.

Speaker 2 (52:03):
I don't want to be here. I'm gonna drop out
of school because like everyone was just majoring and shit
that I just had no interest in people majoring in like,
you know, psychology or sociology. And I worked at the
gap and all of my bosses had all these degrees,
and I'm like, well, you telling me about how to
fold jeans, but you got a sociology degree. Clearly that

(52:24):
shit ain't working for you, right, So I'm like, and also,
this is gonna cost me a bunch of money. So
I'm like, I just can't see myself spending all this
damn money to get a degree just to say I
got a degree. Right now, my mom is losing it,
you know, everybody's just like, oh my god, what's gonna
happen to Amanda.

Speaker 3 (52:41):
So you call your mom and told her that you
had what transpire? Or did you?

Speaker 2 (52:44):
Oh yeah, yeah, no, no.

Speaker 3 (52:45):
No, don't.

Speaker 2 (52:46):
I can't hold water. Yeah, I can't hold water. Yeah
I can't. I can hold other people's secrets, not my own. Yeah.
I told her everything.

Speaker 3 (52:55):
How does she take it?

Speaker 2 (52:57):
I mean she was livid because she knows it's not back.
Like one thing by Amanda is she gonna give you
a red lip, a wingliner and straight A's okay. One
thing I'm good at is school. Baby, I do school.
So for me to get kicked out of school, fuck
out of here. Also, I'm a brilliant actress. So there's

(53:19):
also like no version of this that's related to my skills,
Like I didn't get here by accident.

Speaker 1 (53:24):
This is the number two conservatory in the nation.

Speaker 2 (53:27):
I am one of only twenty students, and I won
like national scholarships. I won the Arts Scholarship, the NFA
Art Scholarship, I won the Johnna Reid Scholarship. They're picking
two students out of fifteen hundred auditionees. Like so proof,
I'm proof positive here, So there's nothing legitimate and you know,
for all, for all, it's worth y'all, like I'm saying

(53:49):
y'all to the people, but like I am very self
aware about like Okay, I could have done that better,
you know, but in this situation, it's like, no, I
really showed up.

Speaker 1 (53:58):
So nonetheless, my my mom.

Speaker 2 (54:01):
Was panicking because you know, that meant like I'm coming
into the real world, Like, so what is this gonna be?
Like I'm a quit school and be a waitress and
try and make it in New York City like her
just trying to imagine that was just like oh my god.
And then I had a professor who was like, you know,

(54:21):
you're too smart to quit school. We're gonna figure this out.
And I told her, like, I'm not gonna stay here
on some bullshit. And she found out that I could
create my own major. And so in order to create
your major, you had to connect two schools of studies.

Speaker 1 (54:35):
So there's like the School of Natural.

Speaker 2 (54:36):
Sciences, the School of Social Sciences, the School of Theater,
Arts and Film. And so I had already had thirty
two credits for my freshman year in acting, but all
I cared about was learning about black history because I
had never been taught it, Like you know, I mean,
you hear you learned about yeah, yeah, yeah. But within
my core classes, I got to take Harlem Renaissance, I

(55:00):
got to take you know, African American women writers, I
got to take you know, African American history one oh one.
And you're just like, you feel like you have yeah,
but you feel like you've been betrayed.

Speaker 3 (55:14):
Yes. Yes.

Speaker 2 (55:16):
So at that point I was like, this is all
I care about, this is all I'm interested in. And
so I was able to create my own major because
they didn't have Black studies at my school. So I
made up the major Black studies with the concentration the
visual and performing arts. So I combined the School of
Social Sciences with the School of Theater, Arts and Film.
That meant I had to go back to Dean Irby

(55:38):
and have him sign off in order for me to
get this major. And he was my advisor, so he's
the one who watched me go from straight a'. So
then some random shit and I'm looking at Dean like.

Speaker 3 (55:49):
What you gonna do about this?

Speaker 1 (55:51):
He's like you, no, I don't really know what to
tell you.

Speaker 2 (55:53):
I'm like, god, damn it, brother. But I came back
to him with that piece of paper, and I remember
him looking at it and pausing, and I said, I
need you to sign this because you tried.

Speaker 1 (56:02):
To ruin my life.

Speaker 2 (56:03):
He told a man that I need you to sign this. Yeah,
when people tell you that you have to take a
year off of school for no reason because they want
to keep a quota for their little college. Yes, you
tried to ruin my life. I need you to sign this.

Speaker 3 (56:16):
So what did he say?

Speaker 2 (56:17):
He signed that, and then I ended up graduating on time,
and I was a commencement speaker and I got to
say what I needed to say, and you can watch
the speech on YouTube.

Speaker 3 (56:29):
You got a master's degree in African American Studies with
a concentration on hip hop from Columbia. Yeap. What made you?
What made you need in this band's degree?

Speaker 2 (56:43):
Well, that's what I mentioned earlier. It was that I
felt like I want to I want to be a
voice of liberation and I want to use my art
to do it. And I know that in this nation
they need you to have certain you know, for whatever reason,
they need you to have certain credentials to legitimize you.

(57:04):
And I also knew that they would need it from
a predominantly white institution. So at ivy League, even better,
even better. The other reason though, was again like I
knew that I'm an artist, but I also and I
also knew that I had a purpose here. I've always

(57:25):
known that. I've always known that I have a purpose,
even if I don't know what the purpose is.

Speaker 1 (57:28):
I've always known that I have a purpose.

Speaker 2 (57:31):
And the hardest times of it, the hardest times in
my life have been when I wasn't sure of what
that purpose is and at that point in time, and
I still have the essay. Like I said, I.

Speaker 1 (57:43):
Need to come to Columbia.

Speaker 2 (57:46):
I need to go to I need to get this
advanced degree because I want to speak for my people.
I want to speak with my people. I want to
speak like in the in the efforts of my people,
and I'm going to need as much information as possible
to do so to the better to my abilities.

Speaker 3 (58:02):
You have a concentration in hip hop? Yeah, what with
it being in New York and seeing all this and
the battles and the going on, You're like, yeah, okay,
so what made you do the concentration in hip hop?

Speaker 2 (58:19):
So in order for black culture to continue to thrive
and grow, it has to also be protected. One of
the ways that culture gets protected, is it becomes academized.
And you know, we saw that happen with jazz. We
saw jazz go from this like music of sex to

(58:42):
an actual part of academia. Right, hip hop as well
was happening at that time, like you see like Ninth
Wonder teaching classes and Chuck d and kras One and Bumbe,
and so you started to see the academizing of hip
hop as not just an art form, but as a
culture that has more to it than just music. Right,

(59:03):
you got breaking, you got graffiti, you got DJing, you
got style. You know, it becomes something that is now
a part of black history versus just like a thing
that's being done. And so at the time, I was
also working at Serious Satellite Radio, and I would be
in my studio and over there is Dana Dane. Behind
me is Grand massa flash to the right of me
is EMC Light. Over there is Red Alert. I'm surrounded

(59:27):
by the history. So I'm like, well, this is an
opportunity for me to put this on record and have
archival study that is growing, you know with these people.
So what I would do is all of my papers,
one third of them would include some interview with somebody
within hip hop. So no matter what class I was in,

(59:48):
whether it was within the African American Studies, whether it's
in the African American Studies department or not, I would
find a way to tie whatever the thesis was of
that paper for the final paper, tie that thesis to
hip hop in some way, and I would involve in
our interview with you know anybody.

Speaker 1 (01:00:06):
That made sense. So, like my graduate thesis is.

Speaker 2 (01:00:12):
About how the hip hop album is a continuation of
the African American narrative. And so in that paper, I
do that first part where I just explained my thesis.
The second part was a comparative analysis between Richard Wright's
Native Son and Biggie's Ready to Die and showing with
the album when the and the lyrics are ready to die, how.

Speaker 1 (01:00:33):
This is a novel on wax.

Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
And then the third section was interview about the importance
of storytelling to hip hop. And in that interview, it
was like everybody kept saying NAS, kept saying NAS, kept
saying nod. And then finally I was able to interview NAS.
And so the third part of it is interview with
you know a lot of people and finally NAS about
the necessity for storytelling in hip hop, and that proved

(01:00:57):
my thesis.

Speaker 3 (01:00:59):
You know, it was since you're a hip hop scholar,
you see all the beef's going on. Are they good
for hip hop?

Speaker 2 (01:01:10):
Are they good for hip hop? I mean it's a
different kind of beefs than the one that I grew
up with. Yeah, yeah, I mean I think anything is
good for hip hop that elevates skill. I think anything
is good for hip hop that brings attention to hip
hop as an art form versus as a gossip thing.

(01:01:32):
You know. I feel like so much of what we
hear about hip hop and even about the music, you know,
it's like this nigga his baby mama, you know, and
this nigga arrested for this bullshit. You know. So when
it's something that's really more focused on the music, I
think that is good for hip hop. I think it's
also interesting how it went because I think what's also
good for hip hop is just the maturation of hip hop.

(01:01:55):
You know. And it is very mature for J Cole
to say, you know, I did is, but then it
didn't feel right.

Speaker 3 (01:02:02):
It is. Yeah, but here's the thing. I grew up
the first b flack B for this was a coulmo
d n l ll okay. And then you know, obviously
you came on and you had ice Cube with n
w A no baseline. You had big in Tupac. I
mean you know big into uh Tupac hit I hit
him up. And then you have jay Z And now

(01:02:22):
that that's still the hardest one, right, hit him up
is the hardest one, right, have to edit this out. This,
that's the hard one.

Speaker 1 (01:02:39):
You to.

Speaker 2 (01:02:42):
Whoa whoa whoa? For life?

Speaker 3 (01:02:44):
What whoa whoa? But so it's normally a one on one.
What we see now with the okay, we see Ross's
coming at Drake, we see Kendri Lamar, we see this,
we see future in Metro. It seemed like they're allays
like break your Thanos and everybody coming at it.

Speaker 2 (01:03:03):
Did I miss something that's a different I hadn't. I
hadn't seen it like that. But that's not too far off.
But you know why not? You know, things things to changes.
We need we need different ship. So okay, I mean
when Hole came, remember Hole didn't just come it nats.

(01:03:28):
He came in mob deep as well. Rest in peace
to Pe.

Speaker 1 (01:03:31):
He put a lot of he was on that.

Speaker 2 (01:03:33):
That screen that that that's summer jam screen came in
Moby also, I know, I know, I know.

Speaker 1 (01:03:42):
Being here being in.

Speaker 3 (01:03:46):
So was it with the women beef? You okay? With
the women beef?

Speaker 2 (01:03:50):
Beef is a part of hip hop. I just wanted
to stay on the wax. You know, that's that's really
the goal is that for it to stay on wax.
But it challenges you, it forces you to get your
lyrics up, and that's what as long. I just want
to see people rap. I want to see people like rap.
Well that's really it like to me. And I know
people are gonna fight me for this, but y'all already

(01:04:11):
want to fight me anyway. I feel like nah's one
the jay Z beef because jay Z skill, in my opinion,
like diminished on that last rap when he's talking about
I left a condom on your Yeah, I was like, no,
see that that's not.

Speaker 3 (01:04:27):
Got h. No, I got to hit you low. You
don't talk to you if it get me, I'm going low.

Speaker 2 (01:04:34):
But he started it.

Speaker 3 (01:04:35):
I can't tell you you'll get the best of me.
When they go high, I go low.

Speaker 2 (01:04:38):
I'm not saying that you can't go low, but I
just felt like his rhyme quality, Like normally Hope would
have done that in a very metaphorical clever way.

Speaker 3 (01:04:47):
But that's the old hard I mean Now, I don't
Hope is above that. Now, he wouldn't even he wouldn't
even dignify any response somebody. Yeah, but but you got
I got to get you.

Speaker 2 (01:04:57):
You think, will that beef?

Speaker 3 (01:04:59):
That's what? No, No, no, That's what.

Speaker 2 (01:05:02):
I'm talking about.

Speaker 3 (01:05:02):
But it's just like just like when Pak said, he said,
I hit your wife.

Speaker 2 (01:05:07):
I'm not my wife, Shannon. I'm not talking about what
they said. I'm talking about how they said it. Like
Pac delivered that shit in the way POC delivers shit.
He didn't change up the whole I know, the hole
who says things like can't stop I from drinking my
ties with t tie down in word life. Yeah, that

(01:05:28):
seemed like a diminishment of his skill set.

Speaker 1 (01:05:31):
That's all I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (01:05:36):
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price guaranteed. You're a poet and this You were in
a group called Floyd You right, and you replaced one
of the I guess one of the founding members. Now, yeah,
natlie and read a lot that you weren't well received.

(01:06:47):
Do you know, I mean, if they're turning it back,
they're bullying. I mean, I guess the people that you're
trying to read the poetry too incorrect? Okay? Correct me?

Speaker 2 (01:07:00):
I will write about this extensively. I was asked to
join flow a Tree after Natalie. I was told that
Natalie left. Apparently that was not the case, but that's
what I was told. And then we prepared to go
on tour, and they did not tell the fans that

(01:07:20):
Natalie would not be joining Marsha on the tour. So
when I come on stage, I do not resemble Natalie
in any shapeway or form, right, So immediately our first
show in Boston, people are like, well, who the fuck
is this bitch? But I can sing and I know
the songs. So the first show, great time, good job.

(01:07:42):
But now the word is out Natalie ain't on the tour, right,
It's Amanda whoever it is broad Is it's Amanda Seals. Well,
actually no, I had a name by then because I
had done MTV. So we now.

Speaker 1 (01:07:56):
Went from Boston. The next show that we were doing
was somewhere else.

Speaker 2 (01:08:00):
I can't remember, but maybe Philly, and so I guess
to just correct the scenario.

Speaker 1 (01:08:07):
It's not that people were.

Speaker 2 (01:08:08):
Mad at me because of how I was delivering the work.
It was that they felt duped by the ticket sales
because they had bought tickets to see the Flowa tree
they knew, and they were protesting that this was not
the Flowa tree they knew. Nonetheless, every time I won

(01:08:29):
them over because I am talented, So every time I
won them over. And I remember, you know, being at
Club Love in DC and they had their backs turned
to the stage and it was like I had to
It was like I was on the voice, you know,
I had to get them to turn them, to spin
them chairs around. But I sang my I sang my son.
That really happened, my nigga. Yes, what are you talking about? Yes?

Speaker 1 (01:08:52):
Do you mind if I call you my nigga?

Speaker 3 (01:08:55):
I mean, I mean, I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:08:57):
Speaking about literally like and then I'm here. Oh you
gotta do is say yes? And they like to not
what you feel.

Speaker 1 (01:09:08):
Let me undress your baby. Maybe maybe this little skinny
like skin bite.

Speaker 2 (01:09:12):
Got some widder.

Speaker 1 (01:09:13):
Yeah, that really happened. But I wasn't doing poetry.

Speaker 3 (01:09:16):
I was singing, Okay, so okay, you winning the ball?
Like okay. They like that.

Speaker 2 (01:09:21):
They ain't like a man. But Marcia never made it
any easier.

Speaker 3 (01:09:30):
Why why, yes, why why did Okay?

Speaker 4 (01:09:39):
Natalie, don't I think I think I think this is now.

Speaker 2 (01:09:44):
See what I'm saying I think, okay, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:09:46):
Okay, this is your point of view, this is.

Speaker 1 (01:09:48):
Your pob I think that they wanted me to quit.

Speaker 2 (01:09:52):
Why because then she could proceed on the tour by herself,
and she was in the process of going into her
solo career. And the way that I was treated was
so just shitty that I think they were really trying
to force me to quit, and they all most did.
They almost got me out of that back there, you
see it. Honestly, it wasn't even me who said it. It

(01:10:12):
was our drummer at the time, Darryl, and me and
Daryl didn't even rock with each other, but he spoke
into me and he was like, because I was really
like out of here, out of here because every show
we would come on the stage and she would not
even say my name, and every night she would say
to me, okay, so this is how we're gonna start
the show tonight.

Speaker 1 (01:10:31):
So I never got a rhythm.

Speaker 2 (01:10:32):
Can you imagine you on the football field and every
night the quarterback come in with a play you ain't
never ran before, you ain't never seen this shit, and
he like, all right, we want to do We're gonna
do a fifty two banana split with a cherry on top.

Speaker 1 (01:10:43):
You're like, Nigga, we ain't never done that before.

Speaker 2 (01:10:45):
I thought we were doing the banana parfet right, So
that's what every single night, and it would get more
and more egregious.

Speaker 1 (01:10:53):
I just never forget. We were in North Carolina and.

Speaker 2 (01:10:55):
She was like, all right, so how we're gonna do
this is I'm gonna come on stage, I'm gonna start
singing butterflies, and then you're gonna come on stage, but
you're gonna like dap up the other the musicians. But
I'm already gonna be sing I'm already gonna be sing
You're gonna dap up the musicians, and you're gonna come
on stage. After you dap up the musicians, you'll just
like start singing and then we'll just do the show.

(01:11:15):
And I was like, so at no point you're gonna
say like, this is Amanda Sales. And she was like,
I just don't want to. I just don't want to
disrupt the audience. Now, if I'm being generous, maybe she
was just trying to mitigate the I don't know, maybe
she was just trying to mitigate the nastiness from the audience,
but like, if that was the case, she wasn't communicating
that to me. So I felt very very very very

(01:11:36):
isolated in the situation and like nobody was communicating this
to me.

Speaker 3 (01:11:39):
So at no point in time after Natalie and left
the group, Okay, you do the first show in Boston
and then you go to Philee or you go to Baltimore.
Whatever did she say? Natalie is no longer in the group.
We have a lovely other lady named Amanda, and she's unbelievable.

Speaker 2 (01:11:56):
No, no, and we didn't do press and I remember
Wendy Williams. So we get to Atlanta.

Speaker 3 (01:12:02):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:12:03):
Now, what people didn't know.

Speaker 2 (01:12:07):
Was that even before any of this had started, I
was music director. So oh god, comeo, you eight months before.

Speaker 3 (01:12:15):
You ain't supposed to do that.

Speaker 2 (01:12:17):
I didn't even know he was the music director. I
was already nigga before.

Speaker 3 (01:12:20):
But then once you find out, you like, I can't
do this.

Speaker 1 (01:12:23):
Well, no, My point is that I had an insider.

Speaker 3 (01:12:25):
Oh oh, okay, okay, okay, okay, So you had you
had some good intel.

Speaker 2 (01:12:29):
Okay, that's all I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (01:12:30):
Yes, so he gonna tell you everything.

Speaker 1 (01:12:35):
You gotta do is say yeah, can't not what you feel.

Speaker 2 (01:12:40):
Let me undress your baby.

Speaker 3 (01:12:41):
So he's telling you.

Speaker 2 (01:12:43):
So we're in Atlanta and I had a solo song
that I would sing. It was one of my songs.
So we're in Atlanta and after rehearsal, he tolls my coat.
He's like, hey, she trying to She trying to cut
your song. But she didn't tell me this. He's like, like,
she literally cuts your song from the set list, which

(01:13:03):
would mean that we would be in the middle of
the show and I would realize that my song is
not happening, and.

Speaker 3 (01:13:10):
You gonna be out there like, Dad, what's my song?

Speaker 1 (01:13:13):
So I said, I said, for show for show for show, Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:13:19):
But now we got to get in the car together,
me and Marsha, We got to get in the car
together to go back to the hotel. On the way
to the car, my boy, Dwight Willisy texts me and says, hey,
you listen to Wendy Williams. Also like, why am I
just casually listening to William Williams. But he's like, turn
on Wendy Williams. Not Lee's on Wendy Williams. Not Lee's
on Wendy Williams. Talking about the real flower Tree. I

(01:13:43):
don't know who, if Samanda is, I'm not sure how
she got involved.

Speaker 1 (01:13:47):
But I am the real flow A Tree or.

Speaker 2 (01:13:48):
I am the real flow Tree.

Speaker 1 (01:13:49):
I'm working on my accent. I'm the real flow A Tree.

Speaker 2 (01:13:52):
And so if you'll go into these shows, just no,
you'ren't support in the real flow A Tree. We're sitting
in the car and I just found out you're trying
to cut my song.

Speaker 1 (01:13:59):
And I said, did you try to cut my song
from the show?

Speaker 2 (01:14:02):
I don't know what you show came about. I said,
I was told that you're trying to cut my song
from the show.

Speaker 3 (01:14:06):
She's like, who told you that?

Speaker 2 (01:14:08):
She actually didn't ask sid she didn't ask to my recollection,
she didn't ask.

Speaker 1 (01:14:13):
But nonetheless it was just like I want my song
on the show.

Speaker 3 (01:14:17):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (01:14:17):
And so she's like, alright, whatever. But now I'm texting.
I'm seeing from Dwight that like Natalie is on Wendy
Williams talking crazy. So I run up to the room
and so now I'm like, yo, apparently mah Lee's on
Wendy Williams. So now we turn this shit on the car.
We're sitting in the car, listen to this. She ain't
saying nothing. We get to the hotel, I go to
the room. I'm still listening. Natalie is burning me up.

Speaker 4 (01:14:40):
She's like, I'm in the Seals. Is not real, She's fake.
This is all fake faith faith fake. So now Marsha
calls me like, did you listen?

Speaker 3 (01:14:51):
I said, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:14:51):
What you gonna do about it? Nothing? I said, Oh, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:14:58):
And this is this is a true of me not
being protected.

Speaker 2 (01:15:01):
Right, Okay, did.

Speaker 3 (01:15:04):
You actually think she was going to protect you considering
that she had never given you the proper recognition, the
proper identification, she'd never given you the prop.

Speaker 2 (01:15:13):
Shouldn't have but I did. Okay, I shouldn't have, but
I did because I always expect.

Speaker 1 (01:15:18):
And this is also a flaw.

Speaker 2 (01:15:19):
But I always hope for the best in people, because Shannon, you.

Speaker 3 (01:15:26):
Hoping people what you do yourself. We talked about this earlier.
We got to stop that.

Speaker 2 (01:15:33):
I know, but it feels so defeated to do it.
But it's true. But it feels like you're giving into it.
Just feels like you're giving into the worst parts of
existence to do it. That's what it feels like. It
feels very realistic to just really give in, but it

(01:15:54):
is the only way that you can really protect yourself.
And my co host Supreme on my radio show always
he'd be like, Amanda, most people are full of shit.
If you would just accept this, you would have such
less heartache. And I'm like, I know, but so you

(01:16:14):
just want them to not be so now okay, So
now she didn't do nothing.

Speaker 3 (01:16:18):
You didn't do anything. You're feeling some type of way too.
Now I can see it. I see it right now.

Speaker 2 (01:16:23):
Well, I'm what most people think is feeling some type
of way for me is actually just me being hurt.
It's really it just reads because of the type of
human I am and the way that my self is
set up, it reads as anger, but it really is
deep hurt.

Speaker 1 (01:16:40):
That's what you're reading.

Speaker 2 (01:16:41):
And I and betrayal and I'm giving so much of
myself to this and to your point, ain't shit been
right up to this point? So it is a straw
on a camel ah, you know. So I'm like, okay, man,
I'm out. Now. I call the music director like, yo,

(01:17:05):
this shit just got ridiculous. He's like, Ye're about to
come to your room, let's talk. I'm like, okay, nigga
never comes to the room. I come downstairs. He's talking
to a white chick at the bar. I'm like, God, they're.

Speaker 3 (01:17:14):
The one that you used to I thought he came
up in here from one last floor.

Speaker 2 (01:17:18):
Rate I would I would think it, because that would
have made sense. Yeah, for sure, the pain away, you know.
But no. So I then called my homegirl to take
me to the airport. Okay, so I called my mom
and I'm like, buck me a ticket. I'm out of here.
I'm out of here because I've reached my wits end.
And again I have no allies here. I had. I
had a manager who was none of the of us. Okay,

(01:17:40):
this nigga sent me in on the road with no contract,
talking about well, you should just be happy.

Speaker 1 (01:17:46):
They asked you what So, I want you to follow the.

Speaker 2 (01:17:50):
Themes in this interview. I want you to follow two themes,
misunderstood and not protected. I want you to follow those themes. Okay,
because you've noticed its themes. You follow the theme of racism.
But I want you to follow those other themes because
they're important.

Speaker 1 (01:18:06):
They're important to understanding someone like me.

Speaker 2 (01:18:08):
And when you have not been protected and you are misunderstood,
what are you going to naturally develop defense mechanism? For sure,
you have to protect yourself. Yes, there's no other way.
They will tear you up, they will eat you a lot.
And if you're if you're creating these things also within
the context of autism, within the context of already speaking

(01:18:30):
a certain way, thinking a certain way, you are setting
yourself up for a very hard road. But you're not
even the one setting yourself up.

Speaker 1 (01:18:40):
I take that back. You are set up for a
hard road in the midst of.

Speaker 2 (01:18:43):
All of this though you are brilliant, you have talent,
and you are in a field that that's the only
way that those things really work in. You know, It's
not like I can go be the theatrical seals like
at the hospital. You feel me like, this is where
I have to be. So so I was about to leave.

(01:19:05):
I was about to leave, and the drummer, who we
used to clash because we both had these like really
big personalities that we hadn't matured into yet, you know,
he hit me and he said, you can't leave. You
cannot leave because if you leave, they'll win, and they

(01:19:25):
want you to leave, and you cannot let them win.
And he said because later in life, you will look
back on this and you will say I stayed and
I was strong, and it's gonna matter. It's gonna matter,
and he was right. And so that night.

Speaker 1 (01:19:43):
I ended up saying I came back and we had
a show that night.

Speaker 2 (01:19:47):
And we had a conversation before the show, and you know,
the forty eight laws of power. It can be used
in a very duplicitous fashion, but sometimes it is useful
when you're dealing with folks.

Speaker 1 (01:19:59):
That I just can't see you because of their own
blind spots.

Speaker 2 (01:20:03):
And I'm a very, very emotionally intelligent person, and so
a lot of times I end up having to do
the emotional labor for other people to get us through. Right,
It's exhausting. It's exhausting.

Speaker 3 (01:20:19):
In your life. How many people do you feel that
have protected you and understood you?

Speaker 1 (01:20:31):
Like you want a number?

Speaker 3 (01:20:32):
Yeah, because you say it.

Speaker 2 (01:20:35):
On one hand, I mean at this point, I've I've
amassed an incredible amount and it's been a beautiful evolution.

Speaker 3 (01:20:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:20:47):
In my youth, I mean, my mom.

Speaker 3 (01:20:50):
That was your rock.

Speaker 2 (01:20:52):
And you know it's like it's just there's different processes, right,
Like I will say, like my gymnastic coach you.

Speaker 3 (01:21:01):
Speak verily high you know what, you speak very highly
of the gymnastics coach. And there are a couple of
teachers that John Phillips High School, doctor tul Doctor Phillips
High School, that you speak in glowing terms about, and
then when you speak of them, you radiate. You don't speak,
You don't radiate when you mentioned anybody else's name, But
when you mention those people's names, your mother, your gymnastics coach,

(01:21:26):
the people at the instructor that doctor Phillips High School,
you radiate. What was it about them that caused them
to not only understand Amanda, but was willing to protect Amanda?
Your mom? I get that's your mom. She's supposed to because.

Speaker 2 (01:21:44):
They because they they saw what some people consider as flaws,
they saw a strengths. You know, I remember when I
started going to therapy. I started going to therapy because
I was like, you know, people keep telling me that
no one likes me, and I do not understand.

Speaker 3 (01:21:58):
Did you believe it that no one likes me?

Speaker 2 (01:22:02):
Yeah? Because I have low self esteem.

Speaker 3 (01:22:05):
OK So.

Speaker 1 (01:22:09):
I'm just like, I don't I don't but I don't understand.

Speaker 2 (01:22:13):
And she I remember her asking me, well, what are
the reasons why people say they don't like you, and
I told her, I said my tone, I'm they feel
that I'm like too detail oriented, like it's annoying, you know.
They tell me like like they like me being detail oriented.

(01:22:35):
They take it as nitpicky, right, that I am too demanding,
whereas like for me, it's like, well no, it's like
it's more so just me holding you accountable. They say
that I am mean, but in my version of it,
it's like, well, no, I'm just being honest. And so

(01:22:57):
we started working on me being better at understanding like
the neurotypical like the normal way that things are read,
so that I could better protect myself. Like that may
be the truth, but you don't got to tell it
right now. You know it, and good for you, lad,
Hold lad, you don't got a tailler right now. It

(01:23:21):
may have been a yes or no question, but people
need extra words. I lost the job because I was
answering and yes or no questions.

Speaker 3 (01:23:30):
How you lose a job if you answer yes or
no because you added.

Speaker 2 (01:23:34):
Because they were emailing me asking me yes or no
questions and my responses were yes, yes, and no. And
then finally I got an email that said, you know what,
we decided to go with somebody else because by your responses,
it seems like you're not interested.

Speaker 3 (01:23:50):
What you say to answer yes or no.

Speaker 1 (01:23:56):
So now you understand me. It took us a little bit,
but you hear.

Speaker 3 (01:23:59):
So I'm so they won't you just say yes? I
would love to have the job because I think this
is an amazing opportunity for me and I just love this company.
I thank you, but.

Speaker 2 (01:24:13):
Get out there and dance, nigga.

Speaker 1 (01:24:16):
But Amanda and black people do it to each other.

Speaker 3 (01:24:19):
Amanda, we had the conversation up earlier, and what did
we say, if you understand the rules, No, but.

Speaker 2 (01:24:26):
I didn't understand the rules. I'm just talking.

Speaker 1 (01:24:28):
Then I didn't understand the rules. I didn't understand the.

Speaker 3 (01:24:30):
Rules, so we'll learned.

Speaker 2 (01:24:31):
So I was saying that the therapy help you. Yes,
but even still it's like understanding the rules and like
you know, then you are who you are.

Speaker 1 (01:24:38):
Like that ends up being in conflict with each other
so often.

Speaker 2 (01:24:41):
You know what I'm saying, Like you understand the rules,
but you're like in order for me to to like
play this game, I gotta like do a whole renovation
of self. That's not going to be an upgrade. It's
just me really, just trying to mask to become palatable
to you.

Speaker 3 (01:24:57):
But don't you think realistically, they're a lot more people
that dress and Halloween costumes year round as opposed to
just on that day.

Speaker 2 (01:25:07):
I do not want to be those people, and those
are not the people that change the world. And that's
what I'm here to do. And I literally went and
got my master's because rich Bova on the campus of
Purchase College stopped me and held my hand because he
was a psychic.

Speaker 1 (01:25:19):
You would always do readings for people.

Speaker 2 (01:25:20):
And he just held my hand and was like, well,
you gotta go get your master's now.

Speaker 1 (01:25:24):
I was like, God, I thought I was done with this.

Speaker 2 (01:25:27):
And he was like, no, you got to go get
your master's because you're going to change the world and
you're going to need it to do it.

Speaker 3 (01:25:32):
Do you believe in psychics?

Speaker 1 (01:25:34):
I believe in a lot.

Speaker 3 (01:25:36):
Oh my goodness.

Speaker 2 (01:25:38):
How can you not believe in psychics and believe in God?

Speaker 3 (01:25:40):
No? No, no, psychic?

Speaker 2 (01:25:42):
What do you wait? No? No, come, let's take a moment.
Let's take a moment.

Speaker 3 (01:25:47):
Yes, if you believe in.

Speaker 2 (01:25:50):
God, then you believe in a spiritual power that is
greater than all of us. You also believe that there
are people who are able to access that in a
way that others cannot do you not, That's what our
pastors do, That's what people who are Catholics believe priests
are doing.

Speaker 1 (01:26:05):
And for all intents and.

Speaker 2 (01:26:06):
Purposes, when we pray, we are attempting to contact that power.

Speaker 1 (01:26:11):
We are attempting to just let me finish.

Speaker 2 (01:26:12):
We are attempting to tap in to that power, to
tap into that energy and bring it to us as
we are continuing to bring it to them. Now, when
we vilify the idea of psychics or whiches, etc. A
lot of times what's mixed into that is shit that
ain't got nothing to do with actual connection to spirit.
There are people who are operating in dark spaces and

(01:26:35):
dark places, but there are people who are tapped in
that just have different names. And so the idea of
a psychic, like I'm not calling him a psyche, a
medium or somebody who is literally just more connected I
am very connected to Like I'm empathic, I can feel
I'm very connected to just nature, to the vibration of things,

(01:26:55):
because I want to be, but also because I'm an artist,
right like I can meet something from nothing, like there's
something that is really unique in that ability to do so.
So when I'm talking about someone who is able to
read you, it's not like there are It's not that
they're dealing with dark magic. It's that they are able
to see their profits. So it's just language. But as

(01:27:20):
long as it's done in love, it's all coming from
the same place.

Speaker 3 (01:27:24):
Pastors seems to have been accessing people's bank accounts a
lot later.

Speaker 2 (01:27:27):
That is very true, and that is why we have
to always be careful about who is at the Paul Pits.

Speaker 3 (01:27:33):
So what are your first jobs in New York? Was
a radio host? How'd you get in? You know what?

Speaker 2 (01:27:40):
I feel like I didn't finish that previous story.

Speaker 3 (01:27:42):
Go ahead and tell it for you tell.

Speaker 2 (01:27:43):
It, Oh, flow a tree, Yes, let me finish it.

Speaker 3 (01:27:45):
Okay, tail it because I thought you were done with well.

Speaker 2 (01:27:48):
No, Well, I just feel like it's important to note
that with the forty laws of power, I realize in
that moment, Oh, I have to win the I have
to let her win the battle to win the war, Okay,
and my ego has to be removed in order to
do that. And that's something I had to learn in
that moment, like ego is not serving you here, and
I really don't have an ego in that way, like

(01:28:09):
I can really often see like there's a bigger picture here.
And so I had to let her know that I
was not a threat to her. And I realized that
for some reason she was like sinks treating me that way.
I don't know if that was her.

Speaker 3 (01:28:22):
So you actually had a conversation right before.

Speaker 2 (01:28:24):
The show, and I had to tell her like, I
just want you to like me. I just want you
to feel safe with me here. I just want you
to see me as someone who is not trying to
step on your toes, because that's what it feels like.
And if that's not what it is, so be it.
But if that's what it is, I just want you
to know that that's not what I'm trying to do.
So I had to make myself small so that she

(01:28:45):
could not feel like I was trying to take her place.
And after that it.

Speaker 1 (01:28:50):
Had no problems.

Speaker 3 (01:28:52):
I don't know that, Amanda.

Speaker 1 (01:28:53):
You don't know much, Amanda.

Speaker 3 (01:28:54):
I mean I'm the Manada made herself shrink down. I
mean it went down to honey, I shrunk.

Speaker 1 (01:29:00):
Kid, baby, I know what to do.

Speaker 2 (01:29:02):
That's the part that people don't understand is that it's
not even that you necessarily are shrinking, it's that you understand.
It's like if you're on a field and you know
that in this play, I'm not the star. Yes, in
this play, all I need to do is block this

(01:29:23):
so that this ball can get to this point. Yes,
that's the point, and I am that person. I know
what role I'm playing on the fields.

Speaker 3 (01:29:32):
Yes, you can be good at any game you understand
the rules.

Speaker 2 (01:29:37):
There you go from an hour ago and you don't
talk to me like that.

Speaker 3 (01:29:41):
Dab it up? Can I call you my solster out?
Can I call you by soter? Dab it up?

Speaker 1 (01:29:48):
Now?

Speaker 2 (01:29:49):
You because what you're saying is not accurate to the situation.
Yes it is, No, because the game we're talking about
two different games.

Speaker 3 (01:29:57):
No, In that moment, you realize I'm.

Speaker 1 (01:30:01):
Not arguing that point. I'm not arguing that point.

Speaker 2 (01:30:04):
You were saying that it's easier if you understand the game,
And all I was saying was that I don't know
that it's easier, but it definitely is important because it
wasn't necessarily easy, let me tell you, but it was
necessary and I didn't and if I if I'm being honest,
I don't know that I will call it the game
as much as I would call it. I mean, I
use that as a metaphor, but it's like you could
use that example in an operating room, like if you're

(01:30:26):
the nurse, you not with the scalpel, but you are
important and you know your role in this situation and
that is fine. It's the lieutenant and the captain, right,
Like you just have to understand that, and when you do,
your ego doesn't matter because you your ego is not
based on being at the top. Your ego is based
on Your ego is based on being useful. Yes, And

(01:30:49):
that that really is what I feel like a lot
of people in this society are not realizing we have
this main character energy that a lot of people are
just really built into. And it's like everybody needs to
feel like they're the star, they're at the top, their
name is on the et cetera, and there's so many
other ways to be of value, and a lot of
people are not cut for being the leader. They not

(01:31:10):
cut for being the star, and they in these positions
and they don't know how to motherfucking act and they're
actually really being you.

Speaker 3 (01:31:20):
Stay on the tour, you work at you and uh marsha,
y'all hash out your different you hash them out or
you just y'all make peace to get through the tour.

Speaker 2 (01:31:33):
No, after that, it was fine because I had I
let her know that I wasn't a threat to her,
So then it's not a problem.

Speaker 3 (01:31:38):
How were you? It was her? It was her show, right,
so hi.

Speaker 1 (01:31:43):
H, I can't you know. All I can do is
my best.

Speaker 3 (01:31:49):
So you did end up leaving the show? No, I
did the whole tour, did the whole tour.

Speaker 2 (01:31:54):
Did the whole tour, and then after we were going
to be a group called Fluor Tree Remixed, and so
her manager kept playing around with my manager around it,
and then she had me make a MySpace page for us,
and then she didn't accept the friend request.

Speaker 1 (01:32:11):
And that was the end of it.

Speaker 2 (01:32:13):
And then I just did my own music and I
put out my album Life Experience.

Speaker 3 (01:32:20):
Have you talked to her since?

Speaker 2 (01:32:24):
I actually saw her at usher show recently and she
went to hug me and I was like, no, I'm good.

Speaker 3 (01:32:29):
Come on, you didn't do that. Come mat como now,
don't be, don't be, don't be petty label?

Speaker 2 (01:32:34):
How was that petty? God?

Speaker 3 (01:32:36):
She was she? Really? After all them years?

Speaker 2 (01:32:40):
Yeah, after all the years, What am I hugging her for?

Speaker 1 (01:32:43):
That's not my peopils?

Speaker 3 (01:32:44):
I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:32:44):
First of all, I'm not a hugger in general. But
that's not Yeah. See, I'm not petty, I'm not phony.
I'm not gonna hug people that are not my people.
If you treat me like shit in real life, don't
try to hug me at a party because I won't
hug you back. It's a song. If you treat me
like she in real life, don't try to hug me
at a party because I won't hug you back.

Speaker 3 (01:33:07):
That's not a smong you made it. But here's the thing,
I can't believe you. I can't believe you would do that.
That was.

Speaker 1 (01:33:14):
I am who I am.

Speaker 2 (01:33:15):
People know who I am, and that's a beautiful thing.
The person I am is beautiful because you don't never
have to guess. People like me are a blessing. You
don't ever have to guess. And so much of this
life is people not wanting to deal with the real
and just hiding in the shadows and instead.

Speaker 1 (01:33:31):
Of honoring honor is a strong word.

Speaker 2 (01:33:33):
But instead of you know, regarding and respecting people who
are straight ahead, we treat them like they are a nuisance.
We treat them like they are a disruption, when really
they are a gift, because it really removes the guesswork
of subtext, It removes the guesswork of alterior motives. I
am what I am. What you see is what you get.

(01:33:54):
Whatever you hear me saying is what I'm saying. And
to me, that is such an easier route, you know,
And I've found people in my life over time that
really see that that is such a a dope way
to exist and it's been a blessing. So when you
asked me earlier about like people who have protected me

(01:34:14):
and like people who understand me like, it's those people
people who see that as a gift, not as an attack.

Speaker 3 (01:34:21):
Have you ever hugged anybody that you didn't like or
shake shook their hands?

Speaker 2 (01:34:27):
I mean, I'm sure I did when I was less
sure of myself and when I felt like I needed
to play the game. You know, I've had an I
had you know, I've had self esteem and inferior to
complex issues for a long time, and I've had to
learn how to love myself as who I am and
be okay with that, and also understand the repercussions of that.

Speaker 3 (01:34:49):
It's okay, we move on. Now we go with Marsha.
This concludes the first half of my conversation. Part two
is also posted and you can access it to whichever
podcast platform you just listened to part one on. Just
simply go back to club profile and I'll see you there.

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Host

Shannon Sharpe

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