Club Shay Shay - Big Daddy Kane Part 1

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Big Daddy Kane — hip-hop pioneer, Grammy-winning MC, and one of Brooklyn’s finest — sits down with Shannon Sharpe at Club Shay Shay for an in-depth conversation on his 40-year journey in the culture, from early block parties to influencing some of the biggest artists of all time.

Kane opens up about his roots in Brooklyn, discovering hip-hop through legends like DJ Kool Herc, Melle Mel, Afrika Bambaataa, and Grandmaster Flash, and finding his voice in the early 1980s. He recalls hearing kids rhyme on the block, crafting his first slick lines from hustler slang, and eventually linking with Biz Markie, the man who gave him his first big break. From battling in the streets to recording demos no one heard, Kane explains how persistence turned him into one of rap’s sharpest lyricists.

He reflects on the next wave of Brooklyn talent — Biggie, Jay-Z, Lil’ Kim, Foxy Brown, Mos Def, Busta Rhymes, Joey Bada$$, and Pop Smoke — and how the streets shaped their stories. Kane shares memories of having Biggie and Tupac freestyle at Madison Square Garden, his friendship with Pac dating back to Digital Underground, and why he believes Biggie could’ve been the greatest MC and Pac the “Michael Jackson of hip-hop” if they had lived longer.

The conversation moves into the industry’s highs and lows: lines wrapped around the corner for vinyl releases, the frustration of streaming payouts today, and how fast-food culture has replaced patience and truth in music. Kane talks about turning down Suge Knight’s $1 million Death Row East offer, performing alongside Bobby Brown, and how collaborations with artists like Quincy Jones, Tito Jackson, Wu-Tang Clan, and Madonna gave him some of his most unforgettable experiences.

As hip-hop evolved, Kane watched the role of freestyle, lyricism, and beef change. He looks back at battles like LL Cool J vs. Kool Moe Dee and compares them to today’s Drake vs. Kendrick Lamar, pointing out how competition sharpens MCs but can hurt careers if it spills into reality. He also breaks down why artists like Rakim, J. Cole, Kendrick Lamar, Lady London, Conway the Machine, and Benny the Butcher keep the spirit of lyricism alive.

Kane doesn’t shy away from bigger reflections either — from fashion’s roots in Black culture, to working with icons like Marvin Gaye, Patti LaBelle, Luther Vandross, Ray Charles, and Miles Davis. He explains why his Grammy isn’t on display, why fan appreciation means more than trophies, and how hip-hop grew from neighborhood block parties into global festivals.

Finally, Kane shares his perspective on the next 50 years of the culture. He wants to see young artists who write songs that impact lives, who give unforgettable performances, and who respect the generation that paved the way. From freestyling with Pac and Biggie to mentoring today’s lyricists, Big Daddy Kane delivers rare stories, sharp insight, and a masterclass on what it really means to be an MC — and what it takes to last in hip-hop.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Biggie was twenty four when he passed, Punk was twenty
five when he passed. Given what they were doing, how
big do you think they would have been? Let's just
say they live another ten years, another fifteen, other twenty years.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
Pop would have probably been the Michael Jackson of hip
hop All my.

Speaker 3 (00:16):
Life, grinding all my life, sacrid fights, hustle, pad to Pricing, right,
one slice, gottor bron geyst Swatt all my life. I'd
be grinding all my life, all my life, grinding all
my life, sacrid fights, hustle, bat to Bryson, one slice,
doctor Bronic Geist Swatch all my life. I've been grinding
all my life.

Speaker 1 (00:39):
Hello, Welcome to another episode of Club Sha Shak. I
am your host, Shannon Sharp. I'm also the propriud of
Club Sha Shak. Stopping by for conversation and a drink Today.
Is an og original, a master wordsmith, a hardcore word assassin,
the Grammy Award winning artist, one of the greatest rappers
of all time. He helped shake the way hip hop
is viewed worldwide. He defied the term lyricists. He sold

(01:03):
over five hundred thousand albums before CD streams and social media.
A pioneer from the Golden era. He transformed live performance.
He revolutionized hip hop fashion. A legendary entertainer, actor, songwriter, producer,
and a model. One of the most influential and skilled
respected mcs ever, he's been.

Speaker 4 (01:21):
Active for over forty years. An icon, a Hall of Famer,
Royalty Brooklyn Barn.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
A key to the borough here. He is one of
the greatest lyricists of all time. Big Daddy came, came.

Speaker 4 (01:33):
My brother.

Speaker 1 (01:36):
When you hear me read off those accolades, after being
in the business for forty years, what are you thinking?
What am I thinking? I guess the main thing to
come to mind is it's only been thirty seven.

Speaker 4 (01:49):
I gave you.

Speaker 1 (01:49):
I added years to that thing. Yeah yeah, but it's
all good. I take it, man, I take it.

Speaker 2 (01:55):
I mean, you know, this is just something that you know,
I started doing as a kid and realizing that I
have a voice and people want to hear it. I've
tried to do the right thing with it and you know,
promote the right message. So you know, all these, you know,
decades later, to have people you know, you know, giving
you accolades and flowers and things of that nature, I
think it's a blessing man.

Speaker 4 (02:16):
You know.

Speaker 1 (02:18):
When you got started, I mean in the very because
this thing goes back what.

Speaker 4 (02:23):
DJ Hurt.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
Cool Hurt, DJ Cool Hurt in the Bronx and you
got malely mail.

Speaker 4 (02:31):
They started this thing. So that was is that when
you got hooked because proud of that, there was nothing else.
So how did you like, you know what, this is
what I want to do?

Speaker 2 (02:42):
Well, you know back when Hurt and Africa Bambada and
the Grandmaster Flash No them started, you know, I was
probably about five years old, right, you know, so I
was really you know, playing with toys and things of
that nature. It wasn't until nineteen seventy seven I heard
DJ in Brooklyn by the name of mess Okay and
he threw on love is the Message by MFSB. And

(03:07):
I've seen the craziest thing in the world. I just
seen all the mature teens and adults line up by
the DJ booth Okay, and they all this rhyme they're
getting on the mic, you know, Dip Dip Die socialize
at age one and I had never seen nothing like
that before. That was seventy seven, so hip hop had
already been going on in the Bronx and like that.
But this was in Brooklyn, my first time really seeing it,

(03:30):
and I was like, all right, I don't know what
that is, but I want to be a part.

Speaker 4 (03:33):
I want to be a part of it. Tell you right, yeah, yeah, kin, how.

Speaker 1 (03:36):
Did you how did you find your voice? Because how
did you find like, Okay, this is kind of the
message that I'm going to deliver because you great with
wordplay and you know UKRS one, we're going to get
through the backdrop of that. But how did you decide
to say, you know what, this is kind of the
direction I want to go.

Speaker 4 (03:57):
Well, y'all are you're talking about lyrically? Yes?

Speaker 2 (04:00):
Well, you know, I'm from Brooklyn, so as a kid,
you know, it's nothing like like, yeah, you want to
play outside and have fun. But you know when you
see a coop de Ville El Dorado or a deuce
and a quarter pull up, you know, and one of
the pimps and the hustlers get out, you know you
rush over there, right because you know they gonna give
you like a dub, They're gonna give you like a

(04:21):
twenty spot just to run to the store to either
get them a bill or lucy and tell you to
keep the change.

Speaker 4 (04:27):
You know, so you're around.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
That type of element and then you're hearing them talk
and the way they talk, and everybody just fascinated. But
oh and if they standing there, because I remember one
of my first rhymes.

Speaker 2 (04:37):
I used something I heard one of the older hustler
dude say, you know one of my first rhymes, I said,
I know the tricks, I know the trades, and I'm
sharp as a motherfucking raisor blade. That was something older dudes,
you know what I'm saying. And I'm a kid putting
that in a rhyme, you for see. So it was
like that was I'm like, you know, I just want
to have that slick talk.

Speaker 4 (04:55):
You know. Yeah, Brooklyn, you mentioned Brooklyn. What is it
the water? What is it in the soil? Yourself?

Speaker 1 (05:03):
Biggie Jay z, Kim, Foxy, Most Death, Bust, the foul
pop smoke, Joey Badass? What is it about that Burrow
that's being able to produce this?

Speaker 2 (05:16):
I think that that quality of uniqueness, you know, like,
I just think that Brooklyn just got their own way
of doing things, right. We have our own way of
doing things, you know. I just, you know, I think
that that plays a major part. You know from what
we seen in the streets in Brooklyn and how it

(05:38):
impacted us in a way where this is what we
want to talk about.

Speaker 4 (05:42):
Okay, you know, were you the first mainstream from Brooklyn?
No Houdini? Oh, okay, Whodini?

Speaker 1 (05:51):
First mainstream, first hip hop, sex symbols Oudini? I remember
in nineteen eighty six, I saw Houdini, I saw run DMC,
I saw the Fat Boys, I saw.

Speaker 4 (06:08):
Listen.

Speaker 1 (06:08):
I saw about five groups at Savannah Civic Center. I'll
never forget nineteen eighty six, and it was unbelievable. And
now that you mentioned, I was like, I did not
know they were from Brooklyn.

Speaker 4 (06:19):
Yeah, who Deni's from Brooklyn? And Fat Boys? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (06:22):
I think if I'm correct, I believe the first MC
to have a recording deal from Brooklyn was Jimmy Spicer.
He had a song called super Rhymes and Dollar Bill y'all.
But who DENI were like the first.

Speaker 1 (06:34):
The impact, knowing what you know now is that when
you look back at it, and you didn't know that
there were gonna be so many more to come after you.
But did you feel like an obligation like, Okay, I'm
from Brooklyn, you know who Deini? But the first to
like get on their individually and do your thing. Did
you feel like you had to start this thing off,

(06:55):
hold it up because they were gonna be coming after you?

Speaker 4 (06:58):
Or did you not think that bar in advance?

Speaker 2 (07:01):
I felt like I wanted to try to help other
talented artists, okay, get established. That's what I felt, because
that's how I got on, you know. I mean I
started rapping in eighty two. I was making demos and
things of that nature, and no one was checking for me.
I couldn't get a record deal to save my life.

(07:22):
Then in eighty four I met Biz Marquis did did
that where y'all started for the Jews Crew? Well Jews
Crew was before before Biz. That was with mister Magic.
You're right, yeah, mister Magic. You know, Fly tied on them.

Speaker 4 (07:37):
You know.

Speaker 1 (07:38):
Rock Sante Chante was the was it? Yeah, Rox Sanne
Chante was the first artist. Then Shan Craig g and
then Biz, I believe, but Bizz I met him before
he even had a deal, and I met him. We battled, Yeah,
we battled, and after the battle, you know, he says, Yo,
you're dope.

Speaker 4 (07:58):
You should get down with me.

Speaker 2 (08:00):
You know, I do a lot of shows and make
a little bit of money, and I promise you I'm
gonna get your record deal.

Speaker 1 (08:05):
So that's who believed in me. That's who took me,
put me on the stage for the first time. Okay,
So I mean with everything that biz there for me.
You know, once I, you know, got out in the public,
I wanted to try to do that for other artists.
So you are each one, teach one and someone gave
you an opportunity. So now naturally you feel it's canes

(08:26):
job to give back like somebody gave to me.

Speaker 4 (08:29):
Everybody don't look that way.

Speaker 1 (08:30):
A lot of times people get put on realizing someone
helped cut them on. Now I'm gonna pull the ladder
up because I don't want nobody else to get on.

Speaker 2 (08:37):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's a lot of selfish thinking. I've
seen it, I've experienced it, but you know that's not
my style, right, you know.

Speaker 4 (08:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:46):
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(09:47):
biggest favorite rapper. Did you you met Biggie?

Speaker 2 (09:50):
Yeah, yeah, I've been around big twice. Okay, but we
had three phone calls, you know. It was always funny,
you know too, because we didn't have a direct connection.
It was my DJ, mister C who would call and
put us on the phone together, and when you know,
when he clicked big again his first thing, he said,

(10:13):
the real big.

Speaker 4 (10:16):
That's the first thing, and we just laugh and whatnot.
Then he tell me what's on his mind. You know.

Speaker 2 (10:20):
But you know, but I mean, he was someone that
I had so much respect for man, and I thought
was super talented because I've seen a lot of MC's,
you know, develop, you know, their style and become better
throughout the years. I saw Biggie do this in like
a year, yes, and like one year, I've seen him

(10:42):
go from here to here lyrically, you know what I'm saying.
So I was like, had he lived, I think he
would have probably been the greatest MC ever. Wow, did
you know that he had that ability? Because like you said,
it wasn't it wasn't like he had a five year
or ten year career.

Speaker 4 (11:03):
It like he blew up and then it was gone
just like that.

Speaker 2 (11:08):
I mean, it's the type of thing where back then
when when Mr C was trying to get him a deal,
she would be like, yo, he don't remind you you nah,
And then he came out with I believe partying bullshit.
You know, you're rocking and he's like yeah, and he's

(11:28):
asked me again, You're like, yo, you don't because see,
Biggie talked about stuff I didn't talk.

Speaker 4 (11:33):
About, correct, you know what I'm saying. So I'm like, nah,
I don't see it.

Speaker 2 (11:38):
Then when he came out with the remix for One
More Chance, you know, and when I'm like, however, I
stayed coogie down to the slocks, I called see that time?

Speaker 4 (11:46):
All right, my bad? I see it. I see it.
I was like yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:51):
I was like yeah. I was like, yeah, he's a monster.
Bigg invited you to one of Tupac shows. How did
you and Tupac get?

Speaker 2 (12:02):
I was performing in Madison Square, Guardens for the Budweiser
Superfest and Biggie wanted to come, and I was like yeah,
you know. And Biggie was hanging with Park because he
was in New York filming Above the Rim okay, so
he asked, could Pop come? And I was like absolutely
because I knew Park when he was dancing for Digital Underground,
you know, cause they like one. They would have opened

(12:24):
an act on my first tour, so I know hi
Park for that, you know, so I was like absolutely, yeah.

Speaker 4 (12:28):
Bring them.

Speaker 2 (12:29):
So when they brought him, I just I called them,
you know, both on stage and let them freestyle.

Speaker 4 (12:35):
You know, damn yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:38):
How often does that happen, that somewhat of your ilk caliber,
invite somebody on stage, y'all go ahead and freestyle here. Well,
the reason I really, I mean, I do it a lot,
But the reason I really wanted to do it that
particular night is because when I first got on, Bobby
Brown did it for me.

Speaker 4 (12:59):
Oh you know yes.

Speaker 2 (13:01):
Because this is when they wasn't really letting hip hop
in the garden like that.

Speaker 4 (13:04):
You know.

Speaker 2 (13:06):
I think maybe the last ones to beat him might
have been like run dmc lll.

Speaker 4 (13:09):
You know.

Speaker 2 (13:10):
So like Bobby Brown had to show, you know, his
first soul album, and he let me get on and
rock with him and perform one of my songs. So I,
you know, I here's Biggie, a new up and coming artists,
here his pop.

Speaker 4 (13:22):
You know.

Speaker 2 (13:22):
He filming the movie Fat Joe. Also by I ran
out of time. I couldn't let Joe on because they
was telling me five minutes left. But I was like, y'all,
come on, you know rock you know, jo Goo tell
that story. Jogo said, you had twenty five minutes left,
you know, joo Joko asser yees to that thing, so
that thing grow that.

Speaker 4 (13:42):
No, listen, let me explain something to you.

Speaker 2 (13:45):
Ain't nothing better than watching put Jokyo do his thing.

Speaker 1 (13:50):
Jo Yo, come on, okay when when he getting in
his element? I love it, I love it all right,
love it, but I'm gonna let the world no.

Speaker 4 (14:00):
Straight up.

Speaker 2 (14:01):
He telling the truth when he said that he was
there and was supposed to get on that particular night
at Masison Square.

Speaker 4 (14:06):
Guard and Joe telling the truth.

Speaker 1 (14:07):
Because you know, people say, bad man, you was supposed
to go over with k K. What about to let
you own?

Speaker 4 (14:12):
Nah? Nah? He's telling the straight up truth.

Speaker 1 (14:14):
And in all honestly, it was something that you know,
really bothered me because you know, because he was a
new artist at.

Speaker 2 (14:20):
That time, so that would have been a good look
for him. But they like five minutes and I still
hadn't done Woman of Kane or Ain't a Half Stevens,
So I had no.

Speaker 4 (14:27):
Time, don't have no time to get them on. Were
you did you ever get in the studio with Pop?
Do you ever see Parking in the studio? We worked together?
Uh before, like a year before he passed.

Speaker 2 (14:39):
Suld Knight wanted to start Death Row East right, and
you know, he invited me out. We went out, went
out to Tyson Fight, and you know, we talked about
working and then we left Vegas and flew right back
to LA went in the studio and I recorded a
song called Wherever You Are with Pop. I wrote a
song for Hammer called what You're Gonna Do for Me?

(15:02):
And Me, Pock and Hammer or three of us did
a song together called two Let Player All in the
same night.

Speaker 4 (15:07):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (15:08):
Yeah, sure offered you an opportunity, did he Did he
try to sign you the Depth Death Roast?

Speaker 4 (15:13):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (15:14):
Yeah, why you're in the sign It was like, he
asked me, what did I want? I said, four hundred
thousand an album. I didn't because I'm checking the temperature
because at at that point in time, no one was
really trying to sign me, so I'm trying to check
the temperature in the room, you know. So I didn't

(15:35):
want to go hard, so I said four hundred thousand.
He was like, that's a strange number. Four hundred. Why
wouldn't you just simply say five hundred, okay, five hundred,
and he like, man, you big daddy came man.

Speaker 4 (15:47):
He was like, I have to make the dog Pound.

Speaker 1 (15:53):
I have to make I forgot the whether the artists
he mentioned, I have to, you know, make them. You
already an established name I would be in. Sought you
to give you less than a million, Okay, cool, and
I mean I thought we had a deal, right but
then he said, look, I don't know about your financial
status right now, but you know, if you need a
little something, I can, you know, you know, give you
a little hundred thousand right now, you know, to take

(16:14):
with you, you know. And then that's what made me uncomfortable.
Oh yeah, yeah, you feel that you took that on
hundred thousand. She was gonna be indebted to this man
head and all of a sudden that that just.

Speaker 2 (16:24):
Felt like a gangster move. And I was like, you know, like, nah,
I'm good, man, I'm good. And I didn't do it. Yeah.
Biggie was twenty four when he passed. Park was twenty
five when he passed.

Speaker 1 (16:40):
Given what they were doing at the time of their
untimely demise, how big do you think they would have been.
Let's just say they live another ten years, another fifteen
of twenty years.

Speaker 2 (16:52):
I think that Park would have probably been the Michael
Jackson of hip hop Wow, you know, because you got
to understand not only did women love POC, men love POC. Yes,

(17:13):
you know what I'm saying, men like women wanted to
be with Pop. Men wanted to be like POC, you know. So,
I mean he was a very very powerful figure.

Speaker 1 (17:26):
You know, anytime you you you you pass away and
people have sightings of you, that's when you're a bad dude,
you know what I'm saying. You know, true, true, Like
people still see my swell to Michael Jackson still alive,
People still swell Elvis President's alive.

Speaker 4 (17:43):
People doing that with Pac, you know, right, how much
do you think.

Speaker 1 (17:49):
Him being something that he's not played a role because
a lot of people say Pop wasn't what he was
rapping about, what he was pretending to be, you know,
this thug life, and he had California, you tatted on him,
he wasn't that.

Speaker 4 (18:03):
Do you think that played a role in his demise.

Speaker 1 (18:08):
I think that Park had a lot of hood ways
in him. I think that Park was a real dude.
I think the Park was a good dude.

Speaker 2 (18:21):
I think that the bad thing was just that he
was easily influenced. You know, I'm not gonna sit here
and say that he wasn't about it, He wasn't real.
I think that he was just easily influenced.

Speaker 1 (18:35):
He was a chameleon because he get with executives be
it TV or music execs, and he was charming.

Speaker 4 (18:42):
He was charismatic.

Speaker 1 (18:44):
Now all of a sudden, he gets with people that
live that lifestyle. He could convince you that he's about
that lifestyle. But you see, you gotta understand.

Speaker 2 (18:52):
When he was a dancer for Digital Underground, Yeah, I
don't know how many nights there would be where I
would have to sit him and it was him and
money B. Yeah, money B wasn't doing that right, Pock
and my dance is school and scrap. I'd have to
sit them down, like, Yo, why are y'all fighting at

(19:13):
an after party?

Speaker 1 (19:14):
Why are y'all you know what I'm saying. So, I've
seen that side of pack before he was right. I've
seen that side. I've seen him, you know, get into
it and romp with cats, you know after a show
on backstage.

Speaker 4 (19:26):
I've seen that side. What was that about? Okay?

Speaker 1 (19:29):
Because you're like he's up and coming, and then he
is at an after party. He's squabbing at an after party.
Why you don't have to do that. We all did that.
Dumb shit, man, I mean, I mean, you can't just
put that on box. We all did that. You know
this thing you're going through, I mean, I mean, you
think about it. He passed it twenty five, so he
had to be what a late teenager early twenties.

Speaker 4 (19:51):
You ain't never had a fight at the after party?
Nah nah nah No, come on, shore n I ain't
never had no fight after party.

Speaker 1 (19:59):
Put it again, big ass dudes, nobody that They probably
ain't want that smoke, you know. So it's yeah, yeah,
let me ask you this, Okay, if you could go
back and do anything different in your career, what would
it be?

Speaker 4 (20:10):
If I could do anything different? I don't know.

Speaker 1 (20:16):
That's a dangerous thing to do, you know, I don't.
I don't know if I really want to. You ain't
trying to rewrite history.

Speaker 4 (20:21):
Yeah, I don't think I want to mess up what
I have. Yeah, yeah, I don't. I don't think I
would want to do that. The money's money. I mean, look,
there was no internet, there was no streaming. There was
you were.

Speaker 1 (20:34):
Selling hard copy albums and CD and CDs, so you
had to to have somebody go wait in the line
for this drop and the line be around the building.

Speaker 4 (20:50):
That was a powerful thing back then. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:54):
Now I used to love like stuff like that. Like
I remember, like me and Albis Sure we dropped like
around the same time. So Warner Brothers had us out
on promotional tour, and I get every day. You know,
we just did clowning and joking and having a good time.
And to like come in a record store and see
the line, like you said, wrapping around the corner.

Speaker 4 (21:15):
Oh man, beautiful thing. Man.

Speaker 1 (21:18):
I sit there, start acting silly and whatnot, you know,
as they start coming in, you know, me and Ire
sitting there, I'm like, all right, all the light skinned
fans on this side, dark skinned fans over here.

Speaker 4 (21:29):
You know, do you think it will ever be Will
it ever be like that again? Kaine? Will music ever
said like that?

Speaker 1 (21:38):
Will people ever line up to want to hear a record,
to go purchase a physical copy of a record or CD?

Speaker 4 (21:45):
Will it ever be like that again?

Speaker 1 (21:47):
Or we relegated to streams and other forms of receiving that.

Speaker 2 (21:54):
I think that it's it's like that right now, just
not as strong. Okay, have artists that's selling vinyl for
like two hundred and fifty dollars a copy, you know,
and people are buying it. They're purchasing it, you know,
So it's happening. It does exist. But will it be

(22:14):
at the forefront like it was before. I doubt it
because the world has pretty much become you know, a
fast food world is fast food now, so.

Speaker 1 (22:25):
It's going to be really really hard. People ain't trying
to wait on nothing came nah. I mean, hey, they
don't want to create the grocery store. They called somebody,
they called somebody the shopboard, they called uber Eve, they
called door dash, they called no, no, no, no, hold this one.
People don't even want to wait on the truth.

Speaker 4 (22:42):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (22:44):
It's not about, you know, getting the story right, It's
about getting the story first first.

Speaker 4 (22:49):
Yeah, you know, okay, what have you learned about money?
I learned about money?

Speaker 1 (22:55):
I mean, you know, for one, you know, you have
have to protect it, you have to tect protect it
and spend.

Speaker 4 (23:04):
It wisely, you know.

Speaker 1 (23:07):
And but how does a young man that's coming into
a large summer money coming up from the background. A
lot of us came up from in Povery's background. Maybe
it wasn't a two parent home, it was a mom
or a grandmom and you've never had and you get
this summer money and all the things that you've ever
wanted as a child or as a young man. You

(23:27):
get an opportunity to get it all at once. You
can get whatever you want, as much as you want.
How does one refrain from being reckless? Because when we
get money, Cane and we our we in our twenties,
we think we're gonna be getting money like this and
I before that, it's fought it fitted So.

Speaker 4 (23:45):
They ain't gonna that's the mentality.

Speaker 2 (23:47):
But you know, you have to understand that, you know,
there was always someone before you. Yes, you know what
I'm saying. There was a run DMC before for me.
There was a Melly Mel before me. You know, there
was a Jim Brown before you. Yes, you know what

(24:09):
I'm saying. So, yeah, you have to understand that was
there was someone before me, right you were.

Speaker 1 (24:16):
But to see rappers what they become, They plot, they
fly private, they got I mean I.

Speaker 4 (24:21):
Saw Drake Dre I was like, whoa man that? Yo?
Gotta say, I'm sixty seven that down these guys.

Speaker 1 (24:30):
You know, thirty forty fifty sixty million dollars nothing for
these guys now, year, Kay probably looking back like, damn,
I'm just forty years too soon.

Speaker 2 (24:43):
Well said man, well said, but you know, I am
so happy for these cats, Like you know when I
see that, you know, when I hear about Drake's success, uh,
jay Z's success, you know, I love hearing those stories
because I know how difficult, especially with jay Z. Yeah, yeah,

(25:07):
because this is someone who I tried to get a
deal for in the early nineties, you know what I'm saying,
and no one was receptive.

Speaker 4 (25:14):
So to see this dude become a billionaire, I'm.

Speaker 1 (25:17):
Like, in their face, yes, you know, I love it right,
you know, And and that goes for the rest of
them as well. You know, Kane, what is the biggest
difference with the rap when you was coming up and
moving it to the fourth front. Let's just say when
you first started and then say the first ten years
versus what you see nine the rap game.

Speaker 2 (25:37):
Well, I mean I have this conversation with a lot
of people all the time when they're against certain things
that artists up today do. I try to explain to
them that, you know, when we were doing it, you know,
like the first rap song came out seventy nine, did you.

Speaker 1 (25:56):
Get your game, Yeah, rather the light. Yeah that's yeah.
I got a deal in eighty eight. That's nine years later.

Speaker 4 (26:04):
Correct.

Speaker 2 (26:04):
Even at that point, hip hop wasn't respected as a
music genre. You know, we wasn't really acknowledged, no, and
damn there, couldn't really get on the radio even at
that point.

Speaker 4 (26:16):
You know, even in.

Speaker 1 (26:17):
MTV didn't really play y'all like that, and you didn't
get the Grammys, didn't acknowledge you until ninety two.

Speaker 4 (26:22):
There you go.

Speaker 2 (26:23):
So it's like it's the type of thing where I
try to explain to a lot of artists, you know
from my era. It's like you got to separate the
culture from the genre, because now hip hop is a genre.
It's music genre, just like R and B, just like rock,
you know, just like pop.

Speaker 4 (26:42):
And let's just look at R and B.

Speaker 1 (26:46):
Two of the greatest R and B vocalists ever, Marvin Gate,
Luther Vandros two of the greatest ever. Both of them
had writers. So you see, like an artist up today,
you be like, yo, so he not even writing his
own stuff, yet he ain't hip hop.

Speaker 4 (27:05):
It's like.

Speaker 1 (27:08):
Culturally speaking that we don't now, we didn't do that.
I still don't do that. I let someone write a hook,
but not my verse.

Speaker 4 (27:16):
You know.

Speaker 1 (27:16):
That's because I'm a part of the culture. I'm from
that era, from that cloth. But artists today, they're coming
out in this thing as it's a hip hop genre,
so they're looking at themselves as artists, not as MC's,
so you know, it's different to them, and some of
it it's still hardcore because I hear that man he
don't even write, he got ghost writer, he got this.

(27:37):
But I never heard anybody say, well, Whitney can't sing
because she didn't write the song. Mariah can't sing because
she didn't write the song. I never hear that other
with other genres except rap. That's because it's like it's
people that understand the culture to understand hip hop culture,
you know, because like what we call biting today, they

(28:02):
call paying homage. Okay, you see what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (28:07):
So it's like it's just it's just it's just different.
Like I mean, even like what we called a freestyle
in the seventies and eighties.

Speaker 4 (28:18):
To today, they call it a written rhyme.

Speaker 1 (28:20):
Right, yeah, because freestyle, I'm thinking, Okay, they say, hey,
coming to the hey to freestyle is it's king Okay?
They start playing a beat. You going through, okay, how
you want to you know, and then you go if
you already got the song in your head, you already
know what you're gonna say, and they drop a beat.

(28:41):
Not in a freestyle. A freestyle mean you got to
come up there and give it to them free.

Speaker 4 (28:44):
You don't. No, no, that's that's that's today's definition. You know.

Speaker 1 (28:49):
No, no, I mean you're not wrong. You're not wrong,
because that is today's definition. Okay, But back in the
in the eighties, we said off the dome. Yes, seventies
they said off the top. Right, today they say freestyle
with us. If you write a rhyme and it's not
about a girl, it's not about poverty, you know, it's

(29:12):
not no gangster stuff about you know who you shot up.

Speaker 2 (29:15):
It's just a rhyme just bragging about how dope you are.
That rhyme that you wrote, that's called a freestyle because
it's free of style. You're not talking about no specific subject.

Speaker 4 (29:24):
Man. Oh okay, that's what a freestyle's.

Speaker 1 (29:27):
A freestyle free is that you're not talking about anything specific, right, Yeah,
off the dome.

Speaker 4 (29:34):
So you going up, so you just going up there
and you just talking about.

Speaker 1 (29:38):
What they called freestyle now is what we called off
the dome back in the days. Okay, okay, you just
say the first thing come to mind and make it rhyme,
you know, right, But what happened to the lyricist? Where
did they go? Did all y'all retire once? K did
all y'all? Did all y'all? A, I'm up out of here.
I'm up, may when you leave it, I'm leaving. Where
are they? Where are they now? You know the story

(30:00):
that used to come on the TV, like the athletes
or whomever that the entertainers.

Speaker 4 (30:04):
Where are they now? Where are the lyrics now?

Speaker 1 (30:06):
Kendrick Lamar is a great lyricist. Jacob Conway the Machine
It is a great lyricist. Benny the Butcher, Oh, okay,
great lyrics. Lady London is a magnificent lyricists. Jake Cole is.

Speaker 2 (30:26):
My favorite of this era, really my favorite great lyricists.
So they're there, they're there, they're there.

Speaker 1 (30:33):
It's just that music is going through this phase where
it's you know, the fans ain't really focused on the lyrics.
When like, you talk to someone you ask them about
the song, the first thing they say is yo, Yeah,
that's a vibe, you know, like the disco era. Yes,
you know you can as long as you can hear that. Yeah,
you ain't care what somebody was singing. You know what

(30:53):
I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (30:54):
It was vibe. You know, streaming? Now, where are you
on stream? Me? You cool with it? Well?

Speaker 2 (31:04):
I mean I don't new music out, you know, so
you know, it is what it is. I wish it
was different because I understand that, you know, artists are
not getting the money that they're opposed to, and they're
being paid less for streams.

Speaker 4 (31:23):
Than they would have had hard yeah physical, you.

Speaker 2 (31:25):
Know, so I mean I I I'm sympathetic you know
for the younger generation that's coming out trying to make
music if that's what they plan to do for their livelihood, right,
you know, because it's going to be very difficult, you know,
depending on streams.

Speaker 4 (31:41):
Right.

Speaker 1 (31:41):
You know, came when you sold five hundred thousand copies,
Did you realize what a feat what what you had accomplished?
Did you understand at that moment what you had done?
I mean, yeah, they gave me to God record, so
I knew what I did. But it's it's just that
that's never been my mentality. You know, my Grammy, I
didn't let me see. I got it in ninety maybe

(32:05):
ninety one. I can't remember what year it was. I mean,
I never put it up until like two thousand. You know,
my whole thing was this.

Speaker 2 (32:15):
What meant the most to me was someone coming up
to me saying, yo, man, your music got me through
high school.

Speaker 1 (32:22):
Your music got me through college. Your music got me
through Desert Storm. That's what meant. Those were the rewards
that those were the most important things to me because
I'm doing this for my fans. You know what I'm saying,
not not not for a Grammy or a Soul Train
Award or you know, if I get it or you
appreciative of it. But yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm appreciated. But

(32:43):
that's not what you know, what I set out to day.
That's not why I made music.

Speaker 4 (32:46):
Your catalog you own your catalog, not yet, but you're
gonna get It's Will, I mean a lord Will and
I oh soul man. You know.

Speaker 1 (32:56):
Prince he really he never let anybody sample his songs,
but you got one. How I don't know. Somebody told me.
Somebody told me the Prince liked me, you know, I
mean musically. Yeah, somebody told me that because we met

(33:17):
and you know, he was cool and uh, when I
wanted to use pop life, you know, he was with it.

Speaker 4 (33:25):
You know.

Speaker 2 (33:26):
Even other than that, when he did the Batman soundtrack,
he did a song called bat Dance, and he asked
Benny Medina, you know, to have me, you know, rap
on it, and I put a verse on it. And
with us both being Warner Brothers, you know that we
thought everything was cool because Batman was coming out on
Warner Films. Yeah, but even though in nineteen eighty nine
wasn't it I can't I can't miss yet. But even

(33:49):
though Warner Brothers Records had rap artists won his film,
didn't want nothing to do with hip hop, so they
took my verse off.

Speaker 4 (33:54):
Oh but Prince had me on the song. You know, yeah, wow,
what are you? Where are you on sampling?

Speaker 1 (34:02):
You let people say, because I ask LLL, I ask
a lot of people, a lot of people say, yeah,
I'm not really big on sampling. To talk to Bobby
Brown had him on. He's like, I don't really I
don't really want to mess it up, but you know what,
if it's the right person and I hear it first
somebody comes to Cane and says, hey, you know, they
want to sample something. Do you need to hear it
before you let them put it out or you just
sign up on it. I'm gonna be honest with you.

(34:27):
I think I would probably rather.

Speaker 4 (34:30):
Not hear it.

Speaker 1 (34:31):
Really, I would rather not hear it. Yeah, because you
heard it, don't like it, you aint gonna little put
it out.

Speaker 3 (34:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:36):
I wouldn't want to not like it and then be like, nah,
I don't don't you know. It's like, if this is
an opportunity for you to shine and you know, become successful,
I'd rather you know you you just do you because
I'm from that era.

Speaker 4 (34:50):
That's that's all we did.

Speaker 1 (34:53):
You know, Because you have to understand, Shannon, you know
when hip hop started? You know, you can't say so
the origin of hip hop music. People can ask that
about country.

Speaker 2 (35:04):
People can ask that about rock, people can ask that
about jazz. You can't ask that about hip hop because
the origin of hip hop music is a DJ cutting
up somebody else's music. You see what I'm saying. So
there is no origin. Like grand Master Kaz, he said
it best. Hip hop didn't invent anything. It reinvented everything.

(35:27):
Those are the words of Grand Master Kaz.

Speaker 1 (35:30):
You know. So the musically, you know, that's all we
did was rhyme over other people the break part of
other people's songs.

Speaker 4 (35:36):
So somebody young, that's what they want to do. Yo,
that's hip hop to me. You know? Do you.

Speaker 1 (35:42):
It's Mama Wilde Music Publishing. But do you you know
studio when you're going when you're going in there, like okay,
I'm just trying to figure out how I came got
himself because like before a game, I'm getting myself, I'm
get ain't inn a train of thought. Okay, I'm gonna
play and go play and these say they call this

(36:03):
playing this down in distance. We get this defense, I
need to be ready blah blah blah. What's going through
when you go into the studio? What is cane thinking? What?
It depends on what what I'm trying to do musically, okay,
cause I'll sit and listen to a beat, come up
with a concept meaning what I want to talk about,

(36:23):
and then I shut the beat off and go somewhere
else with it. Like if it's something I want to
talk about, something sad, I turn the beat off and
throw some otis Redden on or some David Ruffing and
zone out, zone out, like, you know, how can I,
you know, interpret this in today's slang, like what OLDI
is saying, what David Ruffing is saying. How can I,

(36:46):
you know, say that today's slang. I want to say
something sexy, turn it off, throw some Marvin Gaye on,
throw some Asley Brothers on.

Speaker 4 (36:52):
You know mmmmm yeah smooth. You know are you a rider?

Speaker 1 (36:57):
Because you know, listen to people say like like O
with Lil Wayne, and there are guys that don't write
down anything and they tell the great story like hold
hear a beat and he bobbing his head up in
the corner and then he'll go in there and he'll
just lay us track. Are you a writer? Do you
like a write? Yeah? I love to think of myself

(37:22):
as an artist. When I say artists, I don't mean
musical artists. I mean an artist. Like I'm painting, So
it's like I like to take my time and paint
a portrait just right, even if I have to walk
away from it for a couple of days and come
back and finish. Then I like to take my time

(37:44):
so I can paint it just right. Because from that
first line to the very last one. I want it
all to make sense and connect.

Speaker 4 (37:52):
Tied up, everything ties together. It has to have a meaning.

Speaker 1 (37:55):
Yeah, I'm you've been in the studio with Teddy, Riley,
Patty La Belle, Barry White, Q Hammer Buffs the Rhydes
UGK three six month for you the game like when
you go in the studio, is there a different kine?
Is there a different mindset according to who you're going
in studio with? No, no, no, no, are you trying?

(38:18):
Let's just say I'm one of the dope rappers. I'm
one of the top five rappers out right now. And
I say, Caine, I want to get you on this track.
You coming to that. You try to destroy Melius to
say the man inbody be on the track. Let me
do my thing and get up out of here. You try
to you trying to. You try not shine me.

Speaker 2 (38:33):
It depends on you know how you address me. You know,
if you you asked me to do the song with
you A spread love, then I want you to shine.

Speaker 4 (38:46):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (38:46):
I'm gonna do something to make my presence felt right.
I'm not gonna overdo it. I want you to shine, Okay.
If you like a right.

Speaker 1 (38:54):
You know, Caine, I need you to be spitting hard.
You know what I'm saying. Don't come up here none
of that sexy shit.

Speaker 4 (38:59):
Man. You A word.

Speaker 2 (39:03):
Got you, that's what you own, got you, no problem. Yeah,
now I'm gonna eat you up.

Speaker 4 (39:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:13):
But when we were talking about to go back, when
we talk about the lyricists, and you mentioned like some
of the lyricists now came Bro, It's like every other
artist was a lyricist in your time. I mean they
were tremendous with words. They did not play. I mean
you look at KRS one, you look at Cool Mo D,

(39:36):
you look at you like yourself, you look at Molly
mal I mean, you get shit.

Speaker 4 (39:40):
Bro.

Speaker 2 (39:42):
Back then, it was very very you know, important, and
I feel like people that were getting an understanding of
hip hop, that's what they were looking for, right, you know,
they were looking for lyrical MC and then especially after
like eighty six when when when when Rock Kim came out. Yeah,

(40:05):
I think that like a lot of labels were really
starting to look for livercal EMCs because.

Speaker 4 (40:12):
Proud of that. Where they looking for that. I think that.

Speaker 1 (40:17):
During the run DMC on up to the Salt and
Pepper era, they were looking for people that could have
party songs, okay, you know yeah, party songs and the
songs that bang in the club and you know, you
could you know, dance to. I think that they were
looking more for that, right, you know. But then eighty six,
you know, uh, you had Rock Kim, you had KRS one,

(40:40):
and I think they started.

Speaker 4 (40:41):
Really looking for more lyrical stuff, right.

Speaker 2 (40:43):
And then eighty seven you had Myself Coolgie rap, you know,
and that was just pretty much. Yeah, you got to
be like this to get to get to get a deal.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
But did you but uh, did you guys come from
battling backgrounds that were the lyricists, the real the truth
because they have a little bit of it now, but
not like then, because you guys had like groups and
you guys would go and you guys would battle. Yeah,
and and that. And I was doing research for this thing.
Came man, y'all beef all the time. It wasn't everything

(41:17):
was a beef.

Speaker 4 (41:20):
I heard. I Am thinking, like, man, these guys beefing
ou No no, uh a jewe Crew and the buget
and the buget out. Damn. Yeah, there was there was,
you know, there was yeah. Mc shannon Carris one.

Speaker 2 (41:35):
You know, they had you know, the Juice crew, pull
you down productions, beef MC light and answering that yeah,
ll cool J and.

Speaker 4 (41:46):
You know, yeah, yeah, it was so this thing.

Speaker 1 (41:50):
People look at it now and think, okay, and obviously
the big one, uh Drake and and and and Kendrick Lamar.
But then you know people forgot like, okay, well Biggie
and Tupac had a thing going. Yeah, and then nwa
ice Q when he left, he came out with no
vasiline and they were going back and forth jay Z
and jay Z and nas even even though LLL and

(42:14):
CuMo cool L and Kumo D.

Speaker 4 (42:16):
But he had one with faub.

Speaker 1 (42:19):
When you go back and look, say like from eighty
five to like ninety.

Speaker 4 (42:25):
Bro y'all stayed into it. Yeah, y'all stay y'all stayed it.

Speaker 1 (42:30):
I mean when you gotta keep in mind, we were
all very very competitive, Yes, very very competitive. Yes, you know,
I mean like I've had like I've had run Reverend run.

Speaker 2 (42:46):
Yes, come to me in my dressing room and tell
me how dopele for them, c I am, how much
he loved me. I go on stage, do my thing,
rip it down, come on after me run like.

Speaker 4 (43:02):
You know, like you know, so Kin came up here
and did this thing. You know, Well, we had a
lot of superstars in this house tonight. But I want
you to know this is my MF in the house,
you know, like whoa whoa bros.

Speaker 1 (43:18):
Like you know, I mean, this is stuff I've seen,
you know, stuff where like Eric b is at my
house on a Thursday night. Right, We're sitting there laughing
at our fathers. He brought his pops over and we're
sitting there laughing at our fathers, trying to look at
Luke Skywalker videos and what I mean, Eric sitting there
like look at him play dirty.

Speaker 4 (43:36):
Old asses man. We laughing. Friday night we got to
show together.

Speaker 1 (43:40):
Erica walk right past me like you don't know me,
you know, because I mean we were very competitive like that.

Speaker 4 (43:46):
You know. It's kind of lock in now. Yeah, yeah,
you know, but it was love. It was love.

Speaker 2 (43:51):
It wasn't a real beef, right, it was like I
got to have it tonight, That's all.

Speaker 4 (43:55):
I got to have it tonight.

Speaker 1 (43:57):
You wanted to Grammy with Quincy Jernes, the greatest producer
of all time? What made Quincy so special? Quincy man
like Quincy is one hell of a producer. Quincy has
an amazing vision.

Speaker 4 (44:14):
That ear man. You know they go Ray Charles or
Frank Sinatra to Michael Jackson to yeah, nah, I mean.

Speaker 1 (44:24):
With me knowing this dude don't really know hip hop
like that, I'm like, yeah, you made the dude, but
you know, okay, you know what you know? I'm I'm
in the studio and he's like, what you know about
Sarah Vaughan?

Speaker 4 (44:38):
Nothing?

Speaker 1 (44:40):
You know what you know about elphiz Jerald, she'd be scatting,
you know. You know, he's asking that he had someone
bring I didn't even know this existed. Did you know
that back in the nineties they had black encyclopedias? No,
neither did I. They brought like about twenty twenty thirty
books in black encyclopedias and going through and looking up

(45:00):
Sarah Vaughan, Jesse Gillespie, Ella Fitzgerald, and as I'm looking,
he's like, oh, you know, me and Miles Davis, we
used to call each other such and such arm you know,
Ella arm. And he's telling me all these his stories
and he's like that real fasting, can you keep it going?
Because like it reminds me of Ella Fitzgerald when she

(45:21):
does her scatting. When you do that real fast rapping,
and I think it will really compliment the track. Like
this is Quincy talking to me, and I'm like, yeah, right,
whatever you want. And so, I mean it's like he's
given me direction as a hip hop artist, how to
rhyme on a jazz record.

Speaker 4 (45:36):
That's how bad he was. Wow.

Speaker 1 (45:38):
Yeah, do we appreciate him properly, Quincy?

Speaker 4 (45:42):
Yeah? I think that real music fans do. Real music
fans know the importance of him, you know, know the
impact that he's had, What he's done for people, you know,
like myself.

Speaker 2 (45:57):
I'll be sure, Barry White, you know what he's done
for Michael Jackson, what he's done for Ray, Charles, Frank
Sinatra and so many of them, so many soundtracks. I
think that, you know, people that really appreciate music that.

Speaker 1 (46:06):
Yeah, And I mean he uh, I think he did
the thing for Samford and Son, so many of the
the jingles, for the uh, the the sitcoms.

Speaker 4 (46:15):
Yeah, he wrote he wrote those. Oh yeah, no amazing.
Have you ever been starstruck?

Speaker 1 (46:22):
And you're for in your thirty thirty seven years, I
said forty in your thirty seven years.

Speaker 4 (46:26):
Have you ever been starstruck by someone? Hmmm?

Speaker 1 (46:34):
Maybe in the earlier days. I mean, now you you
came everybody know who? You know what, you're one of
the greatest lyricists ever.

Speaker 4 (46:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:42):
I think the first time I met Barry White, first
time I met Barry White, they caught me on card.
I was like, oh, yeah, you know yeah, uh Barry White, Yeah,
yeah that that that one you know, really had caught
me on card And that was at Quincy Jones house.

Speaker 4 (47:00):
Really, yeah, a cookout. Yeah. How do you determine who
you're gonna collab with?

Speaker 1 (47:06):
People come in, they tell you like, okay, we you know,
we want to ride, we want to we want to
jump on something.

Speaker 4 (47:10):
Where do you want you to jump on something with us?
How do you determine? Have you ever said no? Would
you say no? No? I said no. I've said no
to a lot of people. Sometimes it's like.

Speaker 2 (47:25):
I don't like the direction of the song, okay, And
there's been times where it's like I don't I don't
really see how I can sit in this right, you know.

Speaker 4 (47:34):
And I mean that happens with with stuff that I do.
I attract it.

Speaker 2 (47:37):
I'm trying to do just by myself, I write something
to it and once I say it, it ain't sitting right.

Speaker 4 (47:42):
Nah. You know. So you know there's there's been situations
like that. Is it hard? Is it hard for you
to turn somebody down? Nah? Nah?

Speaker 1 (47:51):
Because I mean in the end, you want it to
be right right, And even though you know in your
mind you may think that it's gonna be right, just
because I'm on it, I'm telling you this ain't gonna
be right.

Speaker 4 (47:58):
This ain't it. Yeah. You know you did a song
with Tito Jackson. How did you? How does can't do
a song with Tito Jackson? Well?

Speaker 2 (48:09):
That came through my management, you know, like my manager
Saquan had told me about it.

Speaker 4 (48:15):
You know.

Speaker 2 (48:15):
I was like, you know, I'm grew up listening to
Jackson five. I'd love to So then they sent the
song and I heard the singing and I called my
manager back and I'm like, man, this ain't no goddamn
Tito Jackson. Man, this is they trying to get us,
see if we can get Tito on the phone. And
then he set up a call and Tito got on
the phone. He's like, hey, hey, hey, what's happening the baby?

Speaker 4 (48:34):
What's having man? Yeah? I said, yeah, that's him.

Speaker 1 (48:37):
I was like, yeah, what you want, right, because because
if you didn't know, because the only really voice you
ever heard was Michael's. Well, now I've heard Tito sing, right,
and he has more of a blues feel. So like
when I heard this with the whole it had that
popish justin Timberlake feel.

Speaker 2 (48:55):
So I'm like, this ain't no damn Tito Jackson. Right,
there's somebody trying to use his name. You know, this
ain't Jackson. But then when I talked him on the phone,
I'm like, nah, that's definitely t Tho.

Speaker 4 (49:04):
Right.

Speaker 1 (49:06):
You've culmulated a lot of relationships in this business. You
O dB, how did you guys? How did you guys meet?

Speaker 2 (49:17):
I had a show with Wu Tang and knew it
at Newark Symphony Hall in New Jersey, Okay, And that's
my first time.

Speaker 4 (49:23):
Ever seeing them, so you know, I stood up.

Speaker 2 (49:27):
In the balcony and watched them, and then I told
my road manager, Yo, do me a favor. Get the
old dirty bassed dude and get the girl with half
her hair braided and bring them upstairs.

Speaker 4 (49:40):
I want to meet them.

Speaker 2 (49:42):
And then he brought them up and because I couldn't
really see see because I was way way up. So
when he brought them up, he was like, yo, yeah yeah,
but he's like that, yeah, that's not a girl. That's
a little kid dude named Shaheen. I'm like, oh okay,
my bad. And they came in and I'm I told
them how dope they was. And from that moment we

(50:02):
clicked and old dirty and Shahim hung out with me
that night. Right, we went to a party in Queen's
and we hung out and we was tight ever since then.

Speaker 4 (50:11):
How soon can you tell somebody is really good? You know?

Speaker 1 (50:18):
Sometimes you can meet someone and it just you know,
it just feel that way, you know, like off the cuff.
You meet them and it's like, you know, like I
love this person energy. Sometimes you can meet someone and
you can't really figure them out. You have to really
get to know each other because it's like you've seen
them on TV.

Speaker 4 (50:39):
That image that you know you created a pers that's
not a great representation.

Speaker 1 (50:42):
You need to you need to see somebody in their
natural element to get a real sense or a true
feel of who and what they really are. Yeah, so
you figure you hey, let's go break bread. You come
to my house, I come to your house, we get
into the studio and to get a sense of who
you are as an individual.

Speaker 2 (50:59):
Yeah, like I've done that with a lot of people,
you know, because you.

Speaker 4 (51:05):
Know, sometimes people trying to read me. So you know,
it's like.

Speaker 1 (51:12):
Let me talk, you know, let me let me vibe
with you first. Let's see where we at, you know,
and you know, I mean I think that's important. I
mean I felt like Quincy Jones did that. Okay, we
worked together.

Speaker 2 (51:23):
I felt like he did that when we worked together,
because it was like me, Mellie Melkumo.

Speaker 4 (51:30):
D and iced tea.

Speaker 2 (51:31):
We all in the studio and then he like, what
you doing tomorrow? Can you come by? Like, yeah, I
come by and we're just talking. We're just sitting there talking.

Speaker 4 (51:46):
And we went in and he was doing something to
the Secret Gardens track, yeah, James Ingram and the barge.
But he was it was just I didn't I didn't
hear nobody vocals. It was just to be playing. Okay.

Speaker 2 (51:59):
He was messing with some eqes or something to look
to that. And then we talking about this and that,
and he was feeling me out. And then that's when
he asked me, what do I know about you know,
Sarah vaugh you know, you know he has all these
black encyclopedias and we chopping it up.

Speaker 1 (52:16):
Ralph, you mentioned something earlier about Bobby Brown. Did you
a solid and there was really at that point in time,
there was not a whole lot of mixing. I mean,
he was an R and B and he brought a
rap artist on and gave you five, ten, fifteen minutes
to do your thing.

Speaker 4 (52:31):
Yeah, like ten minutes. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:33):
Did you realize how impactful that was and how that
was going to change your life?

Speaker 4 (52:37):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (52:38):
I mean, I mean I dreamed of playing the Garden
and you know it was like if I never get to,
I did it that one time. Yeah, you know, yeah,
And you know Bobby, Bobby, Bobby was my boy, Like
that was my dude. Like I'll never forget back in
I want to say, hmm, maybe early two thousands, I

(53:01):
was hanging out in Saint Louis with Bobby Womack, okay,
and he was telling me these stories about what him
and Wilson Pickett used to do, and you know, I'm
taking it in, absorbing it and I'm laughing. But the
whole time I'm listening to the stories saying to myself. Ya,
he's sitting here describing me and Bobby right like everything

(53:23):
he's saying. It's the crazy shit me and Bobby that
did together.

Speaker 4 (53:27):
You know, I'm like, Wow, this is amazing, Dad.

Speaker 1 (53:32):
Another lyricists will slick Rick, But you all didn't always
have the best relationship. How does beef develop between artists?
If we were to take women out of the equation
because we know women, can you know he was datinger
and blah blah, whatever the case may be, But how
do beef develop between artists?

Speaker 2 (53:54):
Sometimes beef can develop, you know, over you know, you know,
status ranking.

Speaker 4 (54:01):
I'm better than you, you better than me for it's all. Yeah,
sometimes it can. You know, it can be because of that,
you know my claim.

Speaker 1 (54:08):
Look, if you got something that I want and I
need to get it, I need to get at you there.

Speaker 4 (54:14):
Yeah have you ever have you ever done that? Like?

Speaker 1 (54:16):
Okay, he on top of the mountain, so let me
let me go at him, and then even if I
don't get him, at least I'll get his audience's here
and now they know about me because I tell people
that all the time a lot of time in this industry,
in the podcasting industry, Sometimes when you're higher up. People
that are a little lower on the podcast as far
as subscription views, whatever the case may be, they might

(54:38):
take a shot at you just so if you respond,
your listener's here.

Speaker 2 (54:46):
Now they got it. Yeah, No, that's what a lot
of people do. A lot of people do that. I
mean me, it was never that type of situation.

Speaker 4 (54:54):
Okay, So you ain't have no be with with slick
Me and Slickwick.

Speaker 1 (55:01):
We had an issue during the LL tour, but we
resolved it, you know, right, Yeah, we resolved.

Speaker 4 (55:06):
Y'all don tour together? Is an LL Nitrol tour? How
to hell that go with? Y'all got to get along
cause y'all gonna be on that thing every night exactly. So,
like I said, we resolved, resolved and continue to finish
the tour and make money.

Speaker 1 (55:18):
Man Cohen, I mean, he was a big prominent during
that time.

Speaker 4 (55:25):
He was.

Speaker 1 (55:26):
I'm trying to think, who's the equivalent of him now
in today's industry? Lord who, Lord coin Leo. Who is
the equivalent of him right now?

Speaker 4 (55:39):
Mm hmm. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (55:44):
I don't know, because in the eighties and nineties that's
the only name that you really heard. Maybe maybe the
Steve style cat. But you know he's I think that
he do it. He moved more quietly. Yes, yes, you
had a Mike Tyson story. Uh uh, you and Mike
was cool? Oh yeah, I love Mike, man, because how long?

Speaker 4 (56:11):
How long have you known Mike?

Speaker 1 (56:15):
I knew Mike, you know, since you know, the late
late ladies when I came out. We met, you know,
we just.

Speaker 2 (56:20):
Bonded and we was cool, saying it was like anytime
we see each other, we pretty much hanging the rest
of the night, right, you know, Mike.

Speaker 1 (56:29):
Tell the story that you you know, you you good
with you good with these things though. Okay, that was
that what Mike saying. I mean, I'm fifty six years old. Man,
I ain't fighting nobody now.

Speaker 4 (56:39):
He ain't talking about now. He talked about back there.
I mean, you know, people, people tried the young Kinge.

Speaker 1 (56:46):
People try everybody. Shy people try everybody, you know, you know,
I try to stay out there way cane.

Speaker 3 (56:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (56:52):
Yeah, yeah, that's that's that's the that's the best thing
to do, you know. Yeah, man, yeah, because.

Speaker 1 (56:58):
You don't move somewhere nice and quiet and rumblin's. I mean,
you hear the birds chirping, cricket and the way rustling
that's all you hear, now, yeah, I.

Speaker 2 (57:08):
Mean, but you know, in all actuality, it's like, I
don't think that even when I was younger, that's what
I wanted, you know, because I mean I'm from the hood,
and through my career you never really heard me glorifying
it or talking much about it.

Speaker 4 (57:31):
I talk about to come up, you know.

Speaker 2 (57:35):
So it was type of thing where I wanted a
better life, right and when I became successful, I went
back to the hood. Grab cats from you know, from
more for Lewis Avenue from where I live, Grab cats
from you know on Brookline projects, Briefoard projects, LG projects.
Took them on the road with me, you know, not

(57:56):
to show off, but so they can see what I'm doing.

Speaker 4 (58:00):
Went to be inspired right right right, you know see
what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (58:03):
I want to try to help them, try to figure
out a way to get out the hood. What you're
thinking about, what you're feeling, what you want to do.
But you know, sometimes when you do that, cane, people
be thinking you'll be trying to show you be trying
to help somebody, and people think you trying to show out,
trying you trying to shine on them. That's the motherfucker
get you left on the block. Yeah, I say that,
you know what I mean, the one that you took.

(58:26):
He get it, he appreciate it. Yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 4 (58:29):
What do you think the dopest song you ever wrote?

Speaker 1 (58:37):
I would say the dopest rhyme I ever wrote was
on a song called Mortal Kombat, where I said none
of her in front of because every one of my
adversaries lack your little son of obituary columns of read
your name if you ever try to step to the
big dack.

Speaker 2 (58:55):
I think that was my dopest line, right. My dopest song,
I believe. For the song on I Forget the album,
I think it might be Taste of Chocolate called Mister
Pitiful because it was heartfelt. It was me talking about
personal stuff that I was going through at the time.

Speaker 4 (59:12):
You know what I'm saying, and I'm not used to
doing that.

Speaker 2 (59:15):
I'm not comfortable doing that, So I think that's the
dopest song I ever wrote. But my most motivational song
is for my first album, set it Off. I normally
perform at first or second in my stage show because
you know, could it could be nights where you know,
ankle hurting. You know, I have authrit this on my back,

(59:36):
my back, you know, messed up.

Speaker 1 (59:38):
As soon as I hear that out, all the pangs
go away.

Speaker 4 (59:43):
I'm you know, I'm twenty years old again. I'm nineteen
years old again.

Speaker 2 (59:46):
You know everything is back to normal, right that just
just that song just motivates me.

Speaker 4 (59:51):
Yeah. Do you still write today? Absolutely? You writing for
you or you writing for someone else? For me? Mainly
for me mainly. Yeah, you're looking to put something You're
looking to put something out. You're gonna do? Are you?
Just like? Yeah, I let.

Speaker 1 (01:00:12):
I let ll cool J and Q Tip convinced me
to do new music. So yeah, EL excuse me. I
had LLL long about a year ago. LL say he
gonna be on the stage like mut Jagger. EL say,
EL say he gonna be out there like seventy eighty.
I mean I think he can do it. You know
that title, that that title, the Goat. I think he

(01:00:34):
deserves it and he wears it well, you know, because
I mean I don't.

Speaker 4 (01:00:38):
I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
I don't see nobody else that can actually say that.
You know, they've charted for what is it, like four
different decades eighty nineties, two and five five five, Yeah,
charted for five decades. You know, nobody else in hip
hop can say that his longevity.

Speaker 4 (01:01:00):
It's like, yeah, he is.

Speaker 1 (01:01:01):
He re appreciated, is respected as he needs to be
because LLL really LLL brought the women because he was
the first one to start rapping about women.

Speaker 4 (01:01:10):
When I'm alone in my room, I think that, you know,
I think that true hip hop fans understand and respect L.
It's just that he's become such a big movie.

Speaker 1 (01:01:24):
Star outside of music. It's kind of like ho Hove
got his started music, but hole they really do anything.
He's a mobile he doing. Yeah, but I think.

Speaker 4 (01:01:34):
They still respect jay Z as a lyricist as in MC.
You know what I'm saying, It's like he's recent because
it's like everything that he does outside of music is business.

Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
Yes, L Queen Latifa what they do is film Hollywood. Yes,
so they're seeing more as movie stars than MC. Yes,
but you know, you can sleep if he wants youll
COOJ and Queen Latifa will drop a high sixteen on
you and murder the mic any given night.

Speaker 4 (01:02:07):
Latifa definitely don't get what she deserved.

Speaker 1 (01:02:09):
Yeah, because where they start talking about women in rap
and they go to all these and that's not to
minimize anybody name that they mentioned, but y'all forget about
the Queen. Yeah, and it's like you you can't do
that because she did so much for the culture, yes,
and for a female. MC's right, she broke down so
many doors. Your song wraw did you take? Because Eddie

(01:02:31):
Murphy had a tour?

Speaker 4 (01:02:33):
Raw? Is that where you got the tiele from? And
you just did that on your.

Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
No, just some just some own, you're some my own,
you know, you know it's it was just really just slang,
you know, you know, like you know, oh, nah, this's
gonna be raw. Right, We're gonna write now, it's gonna
be something raw because it was. When we did that song,
it was like I had been fiending for months to

(01:02:58):
put a song out by myself. Okay, my very first
song was me and Bizz or just rhyming with Bizz,
and it was getting airplay.

Speaker 4 (01:03:06):
The problem was, no one.

Speaker 1 (01:03:09):
Was booking me for shows because all the promoters thought
it was a new biz song.

Speaker 4 (01:03:13):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:03:14):
So even though I have a song out and it's
playing on the radio, I'm not making no money.

Speaker 4 (01:03:18):
I'm sitting at home broke.

Speaker 2 (01:03:20):
You know what I'm saying, right, Like, we had to
walk to the walk to the corner Bodegga and steal
canned shrimp and Missus Paul's fish sticks to for dinner
while my song is playing on the radio. You know,
we're stealing food to eat for the night. So I'm
going to the person that owned the label, Fly Todd Williams,
and like, Yo, can I please put something out with
just me? And He's like, Yo, we still got life

(01:03:42):
in this song.

Speaker 4 (01:03:42):
We need to let it.

Speaker 1 (01:03:44):
Yeah, but I ain't got no food in my stomach. Yeah, yeah,
there wasn'ty in my pocket.

Speaker 4 (01:03:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:03:49):
Then finally I guess he got tired of me ass
and then you know he was like you know, you know, yeah,
a gouvernmentcord something we'll see. That's why the very first
thing I say on the song is here I am
or aw because I felt like, Okay, finally I get
to be me to do me. When you get that opportunity,
you know, you got to come where they can you
know you got the murder this because this is your

(01:04:10):
opportunity because like you said, you got a song on there,
but they think it's an ODB song and not you,
And so now this is your opportunity. And like EM said, hey,
if you had one chance, one opportunity, would you capture it?

Speaker 4 (01:04:23):
Did you know? This was my opportunity? And I got
to do this with rou absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:04:30):
Like I said, I was home broke with a song
playing on the radio, so I knew that this is
this is it, right, this is it, this is.

Speaker 4 (01:04:38):
Do a die? You know?

Speaker 1 (01:04:40):
Was that common cane to have guys had songs on
the radio and they still ain't really got no money
in their pocket?

Speaker 4 (01:04:47):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, how is that possible?

Speaker 1 (01:04:51):
Well, I mean I want to say that my first
show I ever did was probably for seven hundred and.

Speaker 4 (01:04:58):
Fifty dollars, seven hundred and fifty dollars, seven hundred and
fifty dollars. I think my first, very first performance was
for seven hundred and fifty dollars. Did you have to
pay to get to the show? I don't remember. No.
We probably used the well, we probably used the limit. Yeah.
We probably used a limo and I had to pay
the limo driver. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:05:18):
So yeah, well damn yeah. So you guys, I think
the thing is because a lot of people do this.
You look at and you look at the athletes back
in the forty and fifty sixty seven days, and they're like, damn,
they made good money by standard. But now they look
at the athletes in today's time and they see guys
got sixty million, seventy million, eighty million dollar contracts. They

(01:05:39):
making thirty forty fifty million off. You looking at right, Like, man,
I did my first show seven hundred fifty dollars and
you see Kendrick making thirteen forteen million dollars show.

Speaker 4 (01:05:50):
Yeah, Like, damn.

Speaker 1 (01:05:53):
I used to tell my mom, said, Mom, you couldn't
wait ten years. That's thought to do your wait ten years?
You were dad, wait ten years and your boy in
the money?

Speaker 4 (01:06:00):
You know. I mean, I'm gonna be honest with you.

Speaker 2 (01:06:03):
Man, It's like, had it happen that way, financially, I
would probably be so much more better. But would the
legacy be the same, you know what I'm saying? Would
the legacy be the same? Like I believe that the
Big Daddy Kane legacy will be here when I'm long gone.

Speaker 4 (01:06:25):
You know, yep.

Speaker 1 (01:06:27):
And you what you rapped about then versus what they
rap about now. I think what you rapped about then
has stay in power because it wasn't girls or getting
the bed or what x Y and Z.

Speaker 4 (01:06:41):
Well raped a little about the girl, but I looked.

Speaker 1 (01:06:46):
I'm thinking can, I'm like what damn? How did you
come up with the name Big Daddy Kane? Where did
that come from?

Speaker 4 (01:06:53):
Well?

Speaker 2 (01:06:54):
It was really just mc kane, okay, Like, yeah, it
was just mc kan And I used the name Kane
from the Kung Puu, Yeah, David Carridy and Kung Fuu
because you know we're outside, you know we're playing tag
or Coco Levy or Red Light Green Light, you know,

(01:07:14):
three o'clock on Saturday. I'm gone, came over. I gotta
go watch, you know, Kung Fu theater mouth. So they'd
be like, all right, we just lost Bruce Lee. I
just lost Young Grasshopper. We just lost Kane.

Speaker 1 (01:07:28):
So when I decided to change my rap name, I
was like, yeah, I like Kane better Young Grasshopper.

Speaker 4 (01:07:35):
You know, So I just mc kane.

Speaker 1 (01:07:37):
But I would use the term big Daddy a lot
in the rhyme, right, And this was the one that
told me, now you need to just put that on,
put that together and be big daddy came not king. Yeah,
because there are a lot of EMC's back there too though.

Speaker 4 (01:07:50):
Oh yeah, so you and now Big Daddy Kane stands apart.

Speaker 2 (01:07:55):
Yeah yeah, I mean that's like, it's it's funny to
me because like to see that a name like that
could actually have state power, because it's very few names
that really have that. Big Daddy, Camee, Dougie Fresh, you know,
you know, Scarface, you know, because like there's some names

(01:08:17):
like like like like if.

Speaker 4 (01:08:19):
Your rap name would have been Shannon Dee. You know
what I'm saying, That thing ain't nobody an It's like
certain names, remember that. Yeah, you know, it's certain names
that you know didn't have that state state power, you know.
So I mean that's definitely a blessing that you know,
it don't sound corny today.

Speaker 1 (01:08:39):
You're riding around in your car today. Who you listening to?
Same person? I always been listening to Willie Hutch or
David Ruffin.

Speaker 4 (01:08:47):
Oh so you don't listen to you listen you listen
to old school.

Speaker 1 (01:08:51):
Yeah, but I mean as far as the new artists.

Speaker 4 (01:08:55):
When I do listen, I listen to new artists.

Speaker 2 (01:08:58):
Mainly in the House, Lady London, Lady London, Conway, the Machine,
those are probably the main two new artists I love.
I love the the new Tiler to create at my
son turned me onto Okay Tiler.

Speaker 4 (01:09:15):
New album is Wire.

Speaker 1 (01:09:16):
Okay, Yeah, when you listen, I give example, when I
watch a football game or I watching a sporting event,
I'm critiquing, I'm analyzing. Okay, man, they're in this coverage. Oh,
they're in this formation. It's just down and distance this
area of the field. This is what I think they
should be doing. This is what I think the defense
should be doing. When you listen to a new artist,

(01:09:38):
when you listen to rap, are you dissecting it like that?
Are you just the boys? I've always done that. I've
always done that.

Speaker 2 (01:09:48):
And not only have I always done that, Sometimes I
linger around the artists hoping, you know that they asked me.
That's my point of view, you know, like I hear
something that I could have took it to the next level,
you know, while everybody else zoning.

Speaker 4 (01:10:03):
Out like yeah, that's fire, that's fire. I'll be up
close to the artists like this here, like just waiting,
you know, it's patiently waiting, like you just.

Speaker 1 (01:10:10):
Ask me, just yeah, just hask me, you know, because
I mean, you know, I want to see everybody shine, man,
I want to see everybody shine. If you could jump
on the track with somebody today, give me, give me
four or five artists you'd like to jump.

Speaker 4 (01:10:24):
On the track with today. Uh, right now today, I'm.

Speaker 2 (01:10:32):
Uh Jake Cole, of course, Jake Cole, Lady London, Sheelo Green,
Anthony Hamilton.

Speaker 1 (01:10:48):
I would have never put you. I'd never put you
in Anthony Hamilton and then Sealow together. I'd have thought
you to like, you know, okay, obviously Jake Cole because
you say he's he's your favorite today, because he's a
you know, he's a lyricist. I would have thinked talk
you to say, maybe somebody like Wayne or or you
know whoever. You know, I would I would have never.
I would have never put you with ce Loo and

(01:11:08):
Anthony Hamilton.

Speaker 4 (01:11:09):
See Low is slect talker man. He is is slect
talker man. Yeah. The Dungeon, Yeah, yeah, he he is
select talker. You know what you want to do? You
want me to run through with my gun Drew This
nigga don do something that he can undo. And anybody's
with him they deserve one too. Yeah. I love man.
People don't realize, but he has a tremendous voice also.

Speaker 2 (01:11:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and Anthony Hamilton. You know it's like
it's like I love soul music, yes, and.

Speaker 4 (01:11:35):
We don't have too many arms, you know, soul singers left, no,
you know, you know, I mean we we have, you know,
we still got Al Green, the Old Jays, Ronald Eisley,
but I mean like from the younger Yeah, well, I
mean from our generation, you know, you know, Anthony Hamilton,

(01:11:58):
Casey Haley, Dave Hollist, Fantasia, Jennifer Hudson. Right, you know,
it's you know, not too many soul singers, you know left.

Speaker 1 (01:12:07):
It's a different time, and I don't know if it's
ever gonna be like what it was was with the
soul singers when you get to you mentioned you had
Barry White, and you had Marvin gay and you had Halfaway,
and you had Freddie Jackson, and you had Teddy Pendergrass
and you had Marvin Gaye and you had this one.
You had ten fifteen twenty oh yeah, and you had

(01:12:28):
ten fifteen twenty women. Oh yeah, absolutely because and a
lot of times I've asked artists that I've been fortunate
enough to sit down and it's hip hop is hip
hop dead, it's R and B dead. Maybe in that format,
maybe as we saw it when we were growing up came.

Speaker 4 (01:12:48):
I think that.

Speaker 2 (01:12:51):
It's it doesn't have a strong presence in mainstream, okay.

Speaker 4 (01:12:55):
But it's still there.

Speaker 1 (01:12:56):
It's still there because you you you gotta think, even
when we had artists like the Old Jay's Brothers, Teddy Pendergrass,
Patti la Bell in main stream.

Speaker 4 (01:13:11):
Steffand in to Steffan, the Mills, and we had all
them in main stream.

Speaker 1 (01:13:15):
Yes, we still was able to find artists like Lenny Williams.

Speaker 4 (01:13:20):
Yes, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (01:13:22):
We still was able to you know, find artists like
you know, Sam and Dave, like there was artists that
wasn't you know, like in the mainstream like that, you.

Speaker 4 (01:13:32):
Know, but soulful artists.

Speaker 1 (01:13:34):
Right, you know what I'm saying that we had to
search for right, you know, And that's what it is today.

Speaker 4 (01:13:39):
You just have to search for them, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:13:41):
Only thing is just that there's not any in the
main stream like there was then.

Speaker 1 (01:13:47):
Are we ever gonna get another Sam Cook? Are we
ever gonna get another Marvin Gaye? Are we gonna ever
get another you know, Barry White? Are we ever gonna
get another I hope Aretha. I hope not Whitney. I
hope not damn come on, no, no, I want them
to be in a class by themselves.

Speaker 4 (01:14:03):
I don't want another Sam Cook.

Speaker 1 (01:14:05):
I want to hear someone that might remind me of
Sam Cook, but got their own lane, right, got their
own style. Okay, you know what I'm saying, because now,
because I don't want nobody trying to.

Speaker 2 (01:14:17):
Replace Sam cook legacy or Marvin Gaye legacy. You know,
I mean like I like October London. Okay, you know
what he does in the Marvin flavor, but you know
he got his own.

Speaker 4 (01:14:29):
Thing, his own thing. Yeah, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (01:14:32):
Yeah, So I mean, let man j Cole there is
I guess it started out his moother and Kendrick said
they talk about the big three is just big me
and Cole started on this.

Speaker 4 (01:14:42):
Journey like nah, I'm off.

Speaker 1 (01:14:43):
And I've talked to a lot of people that say, look,
if somebody call you out, you got to jump off
the porch.

Speaker 4 (01:14:49):
I know Cain would have jumped off the porch.

Speaker 2 (01:14:51):
God damn right, I'm gonna tell you something. I remember
talking to Pappoose about it and then Cole pulled the
song back and said, did he not there?

Speaker 1 (01:15:10):
And I was mad, Really, I was mad. I'm like, no,
come on, brother man, call you out. You got to
come back. Yeah, I was mad. But then as I
watched the Drake and Kendrick battle unfold, I had so
much respect for cold decision.

Speaker 4 (01:15:28):
I respected his decisions so much more.

Speaker 2 (01:15:32):
Because it was like, I don't feel like the fans
were enjoying the battle. I think the fans were taking
too much time trying to fact check what they're saying, right,
you know, it's like it's a battle right the way,
whether it's true or not. Well, I mean, if you
dissing someone, yeah, it's a fifty to seventy five percent

(01:15:55):
chance that you're gonna lie about some shit.

Speaker 4 (01:15:57):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (01:15:58):
I mean, when Ll wined Hammer my old gym teaching
supposed to rap. When was Hammer ever LL's gym teacher.
You know it ain't true, but the line was funny
as well, exactly see what I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (01:16:13):
Yes, So I mean it's like, you know, just enjoy
the battle, and I don't think. I just feel like,
I don't think. I don't think the fans would have
really appreciated it.

Speaker 2 (01:16:22):
I don't think that it would have had the impact
that the jay Z and Nas battle had, that the
Tupac Biggie.

Speaker 1 (01:16:31):
Yeah, Shan, Yeah, Shan and Kas or not. I don't
think it would have had the type of impact you know.

Speaker 4 (01:16:36):
Yeah right.

Speaker 1 (01:16:37):
This concludes the first half of my conversation. Part two
is also posted and you can access it to whichever
podcast platform you just listened to part one on. Just
simply go back to Club Sha profile and I'll see
you there.