Club Shay Shay - Daniel Cormier Part 2

UFC Hall of Famer Daniel Cormier sits down with Shannon Sharpe at Club Shay Shay for an unfiltered conversation about his legendary journey — from Lafayette, Louisiana to becoming one of the greatest fighters to ever step in the octagon.

DC reflects on his humble beginnings, being bullied as a kid, arrested for street fighting in college, and even trying and failing at selling fake crack before finding his path through wrestling. He explains how his wrestling background shaped his fighting style, why his 5’10” height gave him an advantage grappling, and how his first love of boxing through Wide World of Sports laid the foundation for his combat career. Despite not going to school for media, he became one of the most respected voices in sports, proving fans want authenticity and lived experience.

Cormier opens up about starting MMA at 30, fighting into his 40s because the money was too good, and joining the UFC without ever throwing a punch. He talks about cutting massive amounts of weight — even avoiding Thanksgiving seasoning to drop from 255 to 205 in just weeks — and why so many fighters struggle with drugs after retirement, chasing the high of walking through an electric UFC crowd. He even shares the secret of sleeping before fights, baffling his coaches and teammates.

DC relives his iconic rivalry with Jon Jones, from brawling at their first press conference to being knocked out for the first time in his life. He recalls not remembering anything from the knockout to the ambulance ride, and Dana White sending him $1 million afterward. He details how Jones set him up with body kicks before the head-kick KO, why Jones is the most talented fighter ever but not the GOAT because of steroids, and why finding out about Jones’ failed tests felt like losing his first girlfriend. He says Jones wouldn’t beat him at heavyweight, wonders why he won’t fight Tom Aspinall, and insists Jon should fight at the White House so an American can actually win.

Cormier doesn’t hold back on today’s stars: praising Tom Aspinall, calling Derrick Lewis the “Knockout King,” and saying Francis Ngannou looks like the perfect heavyweight champion. He recalls Cyril Gane being starstruck in the ring with Jon Jones, predicts Jake Paul’s boxing ceiling, and weighs in on matchups like Jake Paul vs. Canelo Alvarez, Anthony Joshua, and Mike Tyson. He even explains why boxers can’t beat MMA fighters in a street fight.

On his personal Mount Rushmore, DC picks Demetrious Johnson, Georges St-Pierre, Khabib Nurmagomedov, Chuck Liddell, and Randy Couture — leaving off Anderson Silva and Jon Jones because of steroids. He shares why Khabib is the greatest fighter ever, how their friendship formed, and why Dagestan fighters like Khabib and Islam Makhachev are so dominant. He recalls Khabib turning down $40 million to fight again, explains why Conor McGregor’s money ruined his career, and calls Khabib vs. McGregor the biggest fight in UFC history.

Outside the octagon, DC talks about nearly playing football at LSU, cornering Herschel Walker, his run-ins with fighters like Ronda Rousey, Miesha Tate, and Brock Lesnar (who he says he’d beat easily), and why he never wanted to join WWE despite the money. He also touches on his friendships with athletes across sports — from Christian McCaffrey, the Manning brothers, and Bronny James to Ken Griffey Jr., Barry Bonds, Vlad Guerrero Jr., and Tom Brady — and whether athletes’ kids can ever surpass their famous fathers.

Cormier also opens up about his darkest chapters: his biological father being killed by his stepmother, losing his young daughter in an 18-wheeler accident, and how tragedy shaped him as a father and husband. He explains how his stepfather stepped in as the best role model of his life, how he bought his mom a house, and how money changed his perspective.

Finally, DC gives Shannon insight into fight preparation, the science of recovery, and competing into his 40s like LeBron James, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. He reveals how a simple sneeze before the Derrick Lewis fight ended his career, why even LeBron could face the same fate from one freak injury, and why a fighter’s legacy can change in a single moment.

From rivalries and weight cuts to family, fatherhood, and fighting for legacy — this is Daniel Cormier like you’ve never heard him before.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thank you for coming back. Part two is underway.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
You and Connor went back and forth on social media,
but you said it's over for Connor. I mean the money,
the money that he made from Floyd, the money that
he's made off his alcohol, the money that he that
he's making now to go back into I mean, you're
worth three hundred million dollars to go in there, and
it's like, you know what, I want to get kicked
in my face, hitting my face, elbowed in my face.

Speaker 3 (00:24):
Need Yeah, there's no need there. Yeah, he doesn't need that.
He doesn't need this anymore. Marvin Hackler said, it's hard
to get up in the morning when you're sleeping on
souven sheets right way back in the Yes, yes, there
are a few sayings in the world that are untrue.
That was like that, you know that one where it's like,
to be the champion, you got to defend the belt.

(00:45):
That's bullshit. Rick Clair started.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
To beat the man you gotta beat.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
Rick Clair started that, man, I'll beat the man that
beat the man and be just as happy.

Speaker 3 (00:54):
Give me one belt. The moment they put that belt
on you, you're the champion. But fighters have actually believed
that Connor it's the and he's one of the biggest
superstars in the world. Right he can't walk into any
room with everybody knowing who he is, so the access
he has, how's he gonna look past all of that
to going to a training camp to fight, especially if

(01:17):
he wants to do it right.

Speaker 2 (01:19):
Francis and Kano he was in the UFC he left, Yeah,
it seems to be. There's some speculation that he might
be wanting to come back. There was this talk about
Francis fighting John. Yep, would you like to see that fight?

Speaker 3 (01:32):
I would have. I would have not now, I would
now still back then, I wanted to because Francis in
his last fight against Cyril uh his wrestling looked better.
But I do believe that if he fought John, that's
some more serviceable will fight for John because John can wrestle, Yes,
and he probably would just take Francis down. No, And dude,

(01:56):
do you remember when he was elbow people in the
back in the day like he just I think Francis
would have to knock him out. But Francis could knock
people out.

Speaker 1 (02:04):
Man.

Speaker 3 (02:04):
I've never seen anybody hit harder than France. And yeah,
he got power, He's got the most power seen in
my life. He'd be knocking dudes'll he hit Alice the
Overeim in his head, the back of his head touched
between his shoulders. He hit him with theever cut. The
back of his head touched between his shoulders as he
was falling down. I've never seen anything like it.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
But Francis boxed because okay, he uh Tyson Fury and
it gave him some confidence and then he ended up
fighting Anthony Joshua got knocked out, but he made some money.

Speaker 3 (02:36):
I mean, yep, he's the only one that's actually done that.
And it worked out because he was a heavyweight champ
and Shannon he looks like the heavyweight champ when he
became the champ, and I was like, okay, look at him. Now,
you look like you're looking at the baddest man on
the planet. Yes, you're looking like this dude. France and
Gano looks like he's walking to any place, and you go, well,

(02:56):
that's a dude. I'm not trying to and he had
he had it so when he moved over it worked.
He was that way champ. Yeah, but should he dropped
Tyson Fury, Remember he knocked it out. I thought it
was over. Yeah, man, you should. I exploded out of
my chair. But then Anthony Joshua beat him back, and
you saw when Joshua dropped him the difference in a

(03:19):
boxer and a guy that because Francis was like this,
he needed to grab him. He got flatline.

Speaker 1 (03:28):
And the thing is is that boxers understand how to faint.

Speaker 3 (03:32):
And when he gave him that faint, When he gave
him that faint, Francis.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
Went, I was like, oh my god, and boxer a
boxer throwing a punch in the MMA. Look, I understand that,
you know, they both hit hard, but boxers is just
something about that punch and where it's coming from.

Speaker 1 (03:48):
I mean, it's Shannon.

Speaker 3 (03:50):
I went trained one time in Oakland when I first
started boxing gym. They hit you with a jab and
it's like, what the hell was that? Because they know
how to punch and they sit on everything. Boom boom.
It's not jam jamb touched trying to take you out. Yeah,
I'm just mad in there getting my ass, but I
want I could beat everybody up in there. I'll start

(04:14):
wrestling every one of you fools pistol because the dudes
just putting it on you. They just putting it on
you because there's nothing you can do.

Speaker 1 (04:23):
Why do you fight brock Lesler.

Speaker 3 (04:25):
The w W got him, the WW took him back.
It was that was my golden goose man. We had
that moment in the ring. I pushed him, he pushed me.
WW paid him back. They were paying Brock like six
seven million a year, maybe ten. You're telling me, Brock,
you can go fight DC and lose. Are you can lose?
I'm beating brock Lesler, man, I was beating Brock. Don't matter, Shay,

(04:51):
I was beating brock Lesler. It was one of the
safest fights I could have had. I'm telling you that's
the truth. It's just the truth. I like Brock duds
a great guy. But I watched what Kane did to her.
I watched how he would react to getting punched, and
I was gonna punch it. He would have to take
me down to win the fight, and I can wrestle.

Speaker 1 (05:11):
Yeah, but he's not arest. I mean he was arest, but.

Speaker 3 (05:14):
If he shoots on me, I'm I'm gonna make it
so hard for him to get that take down. There
by the time he gets it, he's exhausted. Now I'm
up to my feet and then you're done. That's why
with Cane, he took Kinge down. Caine got up started
needing him in his face. I saw Brock recently. He
still has that scar on his eye from when CA
need him in the face. Still got that big scar
on his eye.

Speaker 1 (05:33):
Damn.

Speaker 3 (05:35):
It's crazy.

Speaker 1 (05:36):
Crazy scholarship.

Speaker 3 (05:38):
I got like offers back then, but I had bad
grades and I just was not going to college to
play football. It was hard to It was hard for
me in the school that I was in to first off,
there's way too much pressure on football down there in Louisiana. Yeah,

(05:59):
and we weren't very good, but I mean I was
the All State m VP defensively. I was pretty much
missed to everything in football because I was a good
little linebacker. But I was small, and they were talking
about me playing cornerback or free safe strong safety. I
was like, I'm supposed to chase how much chase Randy Moss?
I mean he do so Like I'm not smart. I

(06:22):
didn't really know the difference between strong safety is more
like a linebacker, yes, but I was thinking, But I
was thinking, I'm gonna be chasing dudes like Randy Moss
because he was graduating the same year. I was like,
there's no way, No, I'm good. Yeah. I was like,
I'm gonna just go wrestling, and I'm good.

Speaker 1 (06:37):
I did.

Speaker 3 (06:37):
I got I got an offer to go play football.

Speaker 2 (06:40):
You in Hersha Walker's Colonel corner. Yes, m yes, could
Herschel made a career out of that.

Speaker 1 (06:47):
Oh he did what he was supposed to do. Have
work and move it along, Shannon.

Speaker 3 (06:50):
I gotta tell you, man, is he was? He really
the great? He was the great. He's one of the
greatest athletes, wasn't. Yeah he was, Yeah, Shannon, this man
was so strong. But I don't think I've ever seen
anybody like. He was very stiff, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:06):
He had no pleaxibility or he wasn't even in football. Bro.

Speaker 3 (07:10):
He was so stiff. But when he hits you, oh
and this shit, he would like move his feet. He
would move his feet, but they never left the ground.
He ain't never left the ground, bro. Herschel would be
walking towards you like this. So when when this man
will hit you, sometimes he shocked you, you know. Yeah,

(07:32):
sometimes Herschel shocking dudes. Hey, And then we're in the back.
I swear to God, it was the most Herschel Walker
is a different individual. Herschel Walker has had some stuff
in his life where it's like his anger. But if
you meet him and you you men, yeah, yeah, he

(07:54):
is the nicest person. We are all broke. Back in
the day, Herschel was staying at the Intercontinental. Are was
the name of that hotel downtown San Jose, No, but
it was. It was called something else before. It was
a nice one. But Herschel owned a chicken company.

Speaker 1 (08:09):
You know Hershel that ya ya ya ya yah yeah yeah,
yea yeah, one.

Speaker 3 (08:12):
Of the biggest ones in the country does. But because
of that, they service that that restaurant down there. So
Herschel got free rooms at this beautiful hotel downtown San Jose.
He would feed us all, but he wouldn't eat. He
would eat one time a day, Bro, he would he
would eat soup and bread and some eggs. So I'm like, yo,
this is the nicest guy ever, multi millionaire, rich, nice

(08:33):
football Hall of Favorite. We got at the ring or
in the hallway to walk and broke. Something flipped on him.
I said, this is this This dude is dark. There
is the darks out of a gun. Bro. He started
talking to himself talking about I'm killing this. They don't
do ye talking about killing this dude. Wow, he to

(08:56):
get himself there he went there. I was like, yo,
I've heard people like talk to himself to hype himself up.
Herschel was on a whole nother level. It was the
most intense thing I've ever seen in my life. And
he went out there and he won.

Speaker 1 (09:09):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (09:09):
He was over forty. Yeah, he was over forty, retired
from football for many many years, went in there, did
his thing in one of you, I want to fight
in Strikeforce, which at the time was the second biggest
organization of all time. But Bro, they see him go
to that place, Shannon, Yeah, you'd be like, yo, this
dude is crazy. I look back at the other dudes.
I was like, are y'all seeing this? Everybody acting normal?

(09:31):
Herschel's all about killing moff Here's all I killing people.

Speaker 1 (09:35):
Did you ever think about doing WWE?

Speaker 3 (09:38):
So? I thought about it right after I was wrestling.
But then it's hard. People talk about that stuff being fake.
Hey man, it's scripted, yeah, but it ain't fake. It hurts.
You got to throw your arms back. So every time
it's like it's like slapping against the rig or when
you run the ropes, those robes they burn you like

(10:00):
it's it's hard man. And that's why you see him
all break down like that. Yeah, like they're all like
they're all like messed up, like their their their knees
don't work. They're like football players and us y'all got
it hard. Football is hard man. The the wear and
tear on the body is it's crazy, and so is
MMA in wrestling. I'm one of the lucky ones. I
feel like I got out pretty clean, right. Derek Lewis, Yeah,

(10:25):
black beast bro. He coming there to do one thing
you already know. He ain't tried to take you down.

Speaker 2 (10:32):
He ain't tried to kick you, he ain't try to
knee you.

Speaker 3 (10:36):
Trying to knock you out. He tried to knock you
out the knockout kick.

Speaker 1 (10:38):
That's it.

Speaker 3 (10:39):
He got more knockouts than anybody in the history of
You'll see he hits hard. I thought him. He hits hard.
When he hit me, I was holding his leg up, yeah,
and he just kind of went like this and it
skimmed down my eye. Next day I woke up with
a big old black guy. Wow, he kicked me I
had knots all in my my forms he was, but

(11:02):
he knocks these dudes out. Man, he knows exactly. Did
you see him a couple weeks ago? Did you see
his poor wife in there? Man?

Speaker 1 (11:09):
Did did you see her? The ground?

Speaker 3 (11:15):
You see his wife? She was in there so embarrassed
that the camera pans to her. Yeah, I'm in there
and interview with this man. I'm like, I'm like, this dude,
Derek about some crazy stuff.

Speaker 1 (11:23):
Yeah, and he I go, what do you who?

Speaker 3 (11:25):
You want to fight next?

Speaker 4 (11:26):
Like?

Speaker 3 (11:26):
What do you want next? He looks over at his wife.
There gonna be a lot of grounding pond going. I
was like, boyd she to stand there and try to
stay the polls that Derek's out of his mind.

Speaker 1 (11:36):
But you were the first man to submit him.

Speaker 3 (11:37):
I did. Yeah, he couldn't wrestle. It was why I
fought him. They called me three weeks before the fight
to fight it, and UH.

Speaker 1 (11:44):
Like sure, yeah, he's the money.

Speaker 3 (11:47):
Yeah I knew. I knew he couldn't wrestle, So I
know his cardio and if if I can extend him,
he would get tired, right, But yeah, just if you
couldn't wrestle, like I was fighting.

Speaker 2 (11:58):
Yeah, but you gotta get I mean, you got to
get those three round because you let him get you
in the first round.

Speaker 3 (12:02):
Then he hits you and knock you out. But I
just shot on him right away, right right, because he
was so inexperienced with his wrestling that I like backed
him up and just grabbed his leg. That's one thing
I learned fighting the heavier guys. They don't balance well
on their feet, so I would just kind of move
marna until they fell down.

Speaker 1 (12:19):
Wow, learned something new. Who's the hardest puncher? What's the
hardest punch you've taken? Who hit you? Right?

Speaker 3 (12:26):
Dan Henderson, that little dude, he was like he was
made of concrete, Hindo. He hit so hard. He hit me.
He was on his back and he hit me and
he knocked knocked out one of my bottom teeth. I
had to go to like an emergency dentist on Labor Day,
a Memorial Day after he hit me from the bottom.

(12:48):
He hit hard, even from in close. He would just
and it was just crazy.

Speaker 2 (12:56):
Obviously, there are things that you can't do, but are
they dirty things that got you know, you're not supposed
to eye gouge somebody and you're not. Obviously you can't
buy it. You can't do certain things. But if there's
certain things the guys do that the ref can't see.

Speaker 3 (13:10):
I always had a trick while when I would get
on top of him, it always cover their mouth. I
would literally try to smother them.

Speaker 1 (13:17):
Damn DC.

Speaker 3 (13:18):
Yeah nasty Josh Burnette, that's not dirty. It's like I'm
just trying to Like Josh Burnett would like always like
kind of if you let him go behind you. His
hand was going like yeah, yeah, them dudes, they try
to do his life. They trying to get his life
and death out there, saying that his life out like

(13:38):
I saw, Hey, I thought Josh Bournett. I was trying
to take him down. He was elbowing. Man. Cut me
wide open here, first fight I ever had a black guy.
He need me an eye, cutting my head open. When
I was a kid, I was playing football with the
older kids. One dude clothes line me. Broke my collar on.

(13:59):
Yeah it was bad. I walked to my mama house
because I'm trying to be tough.

Speaker 1 (14:03):
I'm a young kid.

Speaker 3 (14:03):
I can't cry. So I saw my mama. I fall
on the ground. They put me in a cast, broken
collum On. I fought Josh Barnette. My mom passed in
twenty twenty two. When I fought Josh Barnette, I had
won my first big world title, Shrike Force. I was bloody, man,

(14:24):
my eye was open. Everything was They put stitches for
the first time. I walked into the hotel and I'm
good taking pictures of everybody, all champ. The moment I
saw my mama, I started crying like a baby. Man.

Speaker 1 (14:37):
I fell down.

Speaker 3 (14:38):
I'm in her lap like a seven year old kid. Again,
Please make me feel better. That's how nasty he was
in there, dude. He was elbowing me, he was grabbing me,
he was doing everything he could to just like inflict
pain on me. He does that, Jones does that. Certain
guys just no matter where you are, they're just trying
to hurt you. And like that's a yeah, but you

(15:03):
got to be so well rounded to do this thing. Now, Yeah,
if you aren't. You look at Elliott Taporia. He's a monster.
He's a monster. He's one of the best fighters of
all time and he's only fought eight times in the UFC. Wow,
he's amazing. These guys are amazing.

Speaker 2 (15:21):
What does it feel like to knock someone out? What
does it feel like to get knocked out? Because you
and I know exactly what you're saying, because I've been
knocked out and I can't remember anything. I don't remember
driving to the stadium. I don't remember what I had
to eat. I don't remember anything. I just remember looking
up at the scoreboard and asking my teammate Rod Smith.

Speaker 1 (15:39):
I was like, we call him futs. I said, fuotz.
How we get to leave? I don't want to laugh, No,
I'm like, how do we come with?

Speaker 2 (15:49):
I just remember like we were losing before this happened,
and now it's the fourth quarter, and I'm like, what
happens if we win this game?

Speaker 1 (15:57):
He said, food we go to the super Bowl. I
was like, yeah, yeah, we're going to the super Bowl.

Speaker 2 (16:03):
But it's a funny feeling to get knocked out because
you really don't remember anything.

Speaker 3 (16:09):
Hey, my coach told me that's just bad. I'm laughing
because my coach told me it was that the last
time you asked you probably asked him again.

Speaker 2 (16:17):
No, No, that was I was like, no, you probably
ask him again. I started out like I started jumping
up and down the south cause we over at fourteen
with like three minutes to go ahead.

Speaker 3 (16:27):
We got the ball this dude, So I get knocked out, right,
That was John kicked me and they hit him with
the follow up shots. Right, the only time I knocked out.
I'm crying.

Speaker 1 (16:38):
Right.

Speaker 3 (16:39):
I go to my corner. I asked my coach. I said,
what happened? He tells me, I break down crying, right, yeah.
Rogan interviews me as we're walking out of the octagon.
I looked at him and I go, hey, what happened?
He tells me, I break down crying. He told me
I did that seven times. He had to keep explaining

(17:01):
it to me, and then every time he explained it,
I would have the exact same reaction, like it was
the first time I heard this shit. Man bad Yo, Yeah,
that's bad, he said. He told me seven times. And
then I'm in the I'm in the ambulance because they're
trying to get me the amaz I'm refusing. Finally I
get in the ambas and I wake up and I
was present like nothing had happened. I was like I lost.

(17:25):
They're like, yeah, yeah, he lost. I was like, God,
damn it, I swear to God. I woke up and
I woke up in the in the ambulance like and realized.

Speaker 2 (17:36):
Like lost, did did you not? Because obviously, so how
did you? How did you set the head kick up?

Speaker 3 (17:42):
It was it was it was beautiful. It was beautiful, man,
it was beautiful. He kept body kicking me. That's what
he did in the first fight too, and I kept checking,
I kept blocking, I kept blocking. But then in the
second round, I was fighting good. First round, real good,
second round, real good. So now I'm feeling good because
I feel great. My cardial was great. Third round, but
the whole time he's just kicking me in the body.

(18:03):
Third time he tries to kick me in the head,
and the third round is the first one of the
first attempts, and I was like, nah nah, But then
he actually gave me one that looked like it was
going to the body. And so I did this, and
you're supposed to lean right, You're supposed to kind of
lean to kind of take some of the impact off.
But when I lean, he was not going low. He

(18:26):
was going high, right on the side of the head.
So then I started doing the chicken dance right like
you know when your leg and this is this is
this is where, and this is why That's why I
can't stand this dude, because somebody else that's not as
good would have let me off the hook because I
was still there. And again that's me. Football neck, big neck,

(18:48):
short neck can take. Most people just fall down from
a head kicked like that. I was still there, so
I'm like doing this thing running away from him. Yo,
he kicks my leg to spin me. Yes, I remember,
so he kicks. Yeah, So I suspend. It's like that,
should you put the kids where?

Speaker 1 (19:08):
Then you don't know where you're at.

Speaker 3 (19:11):
When I did that, I fell and that was it.
I couldn't not My body was gone. But like if
I was on my feet, I might have been able
to grab him, to hold him by the shot. I
would have done something. But because he's such a great finisher,
he kicks my leg out from under me. So then
I spin, and when I spin, I'm like seeing all
these lights and all of a sudden your body starts falling.

(19:32):
It was like a kid trying to hit a pinata.
It was crazy, man. Then I fall on my stomach.
Of all times in my world to fall on my stomach,
like fall on your back to where you could see
him coming. Maybe get my feet up to try to
block him, but instead I fell on my stomach and
then he jumped on me and started started finishing. And
I know this from watching it.

Speaker 2 (19:54):
So so you watch it. So you watched when you
lost that fight, you watched it over.

Speaker 3 (19:57):
Now for a long time, I didn't watch fight. I uh,
but it's on highlights and stuff. You have seen no
shield us from the if you lost. If you lost,
you're gonna see yourself getting beat at some point. That's
why it was him a Steep Ay faught. It was
the worst the whole week. I'm just out there and
I was like, damn, did I ever win a fight?

(20:18):
I'm just getting beat the whole time.

Speaker 1 (20:20):
It was terrible. I mean that that I mean you
like you said, I mean his tool box.

Speaker 2 (20:25):
The way he can finish the fight with an elbow,
he can submit elbowed and then that that back, that spinning,
that spinning back he got he called perfect.

Speaker 3 (20:36):
Pull step a man and you and he and you.

Speaker 1 (20:38):
He doesn't telegraph it well.

Speaker 3 (20:40):
The box the heavyweights, so boxing and wrestling, they're not
doing all that. You could tell right away when he
needs Steve Steep. It was like, what is this? Yeah,
they're they're kneeing. Now normally a guys trying to to
take me out of box with me made a couple
of leg kicks here and there. John was hitting them
with all kinds of stuff. John hit him with knees, elbows,
spinning kicks. When he hit him with that spinning kick,

(21:02):
step A, you could tell Steve A looked like a
guy that hadn't fought for three and a half years
and was forty two. He looked and he just turned
down you. I was like, oh, John got him. But
he is very good at setting everything up. That's why
he didn't have to cheat. He did not have to cheat.
That's where my biggest issue is, like, you don't need
to cheat. You got all that keep that used what

(21:24):
you have, and he gonna always get mad at me.

Speaker 1 (21:28):
You go be on me.

Speaker 3 (21:28):
No, it is oh the other thing he said, you
live rich free of my house in my brain or
something like that. I'm like, man, shut up.

Speaker 1 (21:39):
Obviously you were there when Anderson Silva was that.

Speaker 3 (21:43):
Rock hole or was that chail Son?

Speaker 1 (21:46):
No, when he checked him?

Speaker 3 (21:47):
When when when that was Chris Widman?

Speaker 2 (21:51):
Had you ever seen have you ever said? Had you
ever seen that before? Because it happened again. Another fighter
got checked.

Speaker 3 (21:57):
Hey, Chris Wideman checked and his this broke his leg.

Speaker 1 (22:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (22:01):
Then Chris Wiman kicked somebody else. Widman kicked a guy
named Riot Hall broke his leg. So the same thing
that happened and Anderson Chris did to himself. I can't
watch it. Did you watch it? I watched it. Can
you actually watch them? I can't. It looked like this
fizz leg.

Speaker 1 (22:17):
Yeah, it like broke half.

Speaker 3 (22:18):
Yeah, you watched it. I can't watch it even next
to the octagen.

Speaker 1 (22:21):
But I watched it. I was watching it live at
the time.

Speaker 3 (22:24):
But all those replays, I was like, how to look.

Speaker 2 (22:27):
Because when you see it, you're like, damn that look
and then you like he tried to you know, you know,
you try to put you know, trying to balance yourself
and you just I'm like.

Speaker 3 (22:37):
Damn, look like his leg. Yes, dude, I have to
ask Roguan and Ane. I'm like, I'm like, did it break?
Did it break? Did the break? They're like, oh, it broke?
It was like, do not watch it. I was a
throw up.

Speaker 1 (22:47):
I mean because you guys know how to how to
check because it's called you know you.

Speaker 3 (22:52):
Check, you like you check the kick. Yeah, you put.
You either lean into it or you pick your you
pick your your your knee up. And they were doing
were kicking on the inside. That's why when you kick
on the inside, they just turned their knee in that.
If you kick too hard, man, you break your leg.
That's why I don't kick too much. Yeah, I was

(23:12):
out of that boxing just like everybody else.

Speaker 1 (23:14):
What's the worst injury you sustained in the fight.

Speaker 3 (23:19):
In a fight, just more damage like facial stuff like
black eye, cut face. I never got hurt really bad
in fights, but in training ribs torn a c l
uh torn a cl ribs. I tore some sort of
this this ligament in my shin one time kicking, Uh

(23:41):
broke broken hand Like I couldn't. I couldn't punch. I
didn't know how to punch. Like remember the just have
this idea that Floyd had like hands. Yes, that was me.
Like I broke my hand five times when I started fighting. Wow,
every time I would land right, I would I would
break my hand. So then I have a doctor called
stead Of. He did a great job with my with

(24:02):
this and it never broke again. He put a plate
with like eight screws because it just kept breaking. But
when knocking someone out, you don't feel nothing. You literally
don't feel anything. If you knock him out with a punch.
It's like sometimes you feel and it's like that loud
impact when you land the right way. Sometimes it's like

(24:24):
you don't even punch him. It's like you go right
through them. But you know it well, they fall, they fall.
When I had steep A with that one that put
him down to become the double Champ, I had just
I had thrown that punch so many times and it
just so happened to hit him and he went down.
I couldn't. I didn't even feel nothing.

Speaker 1 (24:42):
Yeah, like with Usmann.

Speaker 3 (24:45):
George knoswdal, Yeah, when he called him with his chin
went all away.

Speaker 1 (24:52):
I was like, oh my goodness.

Speaker 3 (24:53):
Maza Do was mad at me one time because they
I was on. I was on the NFL NFL Alive.
I said, with the mug when you when you you
called him, I put him in, put him in a
concussion broke call though he gotta go in the tenth
because his chin went all the way back there. Yeah,
he went down bad. That was Camorrow punched through him

(25:15):
and he just crumbled. Yeah, that was nasty. Tomorrow looked
good coming back.

Speaker 1 (25:20):
Let me see this.

Speaker 2 (25:20):
When you saw Anderson Sila, he could bound his box
a little bit, but he thought Jake Paul.

Speaker 3 (25:25):
See that's I have a problem with all that. I
don't know how y'all feel. I don't know how you
guys feel about the Jake Paul Anderson, the Jake Paul I.

Speaker 2 (25:32):
Wanted to fight boxes boxing at his age. Yes, I
don't think that's asking too much. No, Mike Tyson, Yeah,
Mike Tyson's you beat up on Mike. Mike sixty man,
Mike did make like twenty seven meals, so I get it.

Speaker 3 (25:44):
But sixty years old. I want Jake Paul to fight
guys that he said he wants to fight Canelo. Canelo
fights one fifty four and one sixty. That's one of
his best ways. He'll fight over your care. He fought
he thought the guy at one yeah and got bivil. Yeah,
but like it's like fight Jake waighs two hundred, two

(26:09):
hundred ten to fifteen.

Speaker 1 (26:10):
Yeah, but I means so that means he'd be a heavyweight.

Speaker 3 (26:12):
Yeah, he's like a heavyweight.

Speaker 1 (26:13):
And he told me he said he wants to fight
Anthony Joshua.

Speaker 3 (26:17):
That he's if he fights Anthony Joshua, all everybody's wish
and dream of him getting finished will come to fruition.

Speaker 2 (26:24):
But I think the thing is he's better now. Yeah
oh yeah, yeah yeah yeah. You no, he takes it serious.

Speaker 3 (26:29):
He can fight.

Speaker 1 (26:30):
You can you can appre you can appreciate that.

Speaker 2 (26:32):
You can tell that he spends time in the gym,
you tell that he has serious coaches, and he's taking
this Craft series. He ain't just getting in there. And
people are like, oh, it's.

Speaker 3 (26:40):
Just he's a YouTuber. No he ain't.

Speaker 1 (26:42):
No, he's a box no, no, no, no, no, no,
no no.

Speaker 3 (26:44):
So Jake Paul's a millionaire. Yeah, Jake Paul's not training
at the local YMCA. He's got real coaches on the side.
He got real he's gotten high level coaches. Yes, and
he lives to box now. Yes, he's been boxing seriously now,
so he should be able to compete. Yes, he's a boxer.
Not he's not that same kid. That's why I keep
telling those MMA guys every time they tell me I

(27:04):
got a chance to fight, Uh Jake Paul, I'm like, man,
don't do it.

Speaker 1 (27:08):
Because because he boxed, that's what he does.

Speaker 3 (27:10):
He's a boxer, you know, not a box No, like
my friend been asking, Ben wenting faugh him. Ben should
have never fought him, Yeah, because he was gonna get
Ben never could wrestle, he could never box. No, he
is a wrestler. Tyron Woodley. I was so sad when
Tyron Woodley kept losing him. I love t wood Man,
and I was like T woods like, you.

Speaker 1 (27:29):
Don't see the buttet love. You don't see them punches, Bro,
You're not That's.

Speaker 3 (27:33):
Not what That's not what we do. I can't box
these guys. He tried to. Jake Paul tried to uh
mess with me for a while until I went up
to him in Orlando. I said, I don't play like
these kids. I said, stop playing with me. His bodyguard
I said, oh, I said, I'm gonna slap YouTube.

Speaker 1 (27:49):
I said, I don't play like that.

Speaker 3 (27:50):
Man, don't leave me alone. I swear to god, I
was at the commentary that sham. Yeah, I'm sitting there,
he in the back making faces at me. I took
my hand set off, I put it down. I got up,
walked right the way he was and the stands point
right in his face. I said, man, I don't play
leave me alone. I said, if I do children that
you mess around with, I'm not gonna play with you.

Speaker 1 (28:11):
Leave me alone.

Speaker 3 (28:13):
His body go, ye, won't do nothing. I said, I'm
gonna slapping shit out of YouTube body. Y'all can get it.
The security security security can't get me because you know, man,
come on, we grown up man.

Speaker 1 (28:23):
We don't like I'm not like that.

Speaker 3 (28:25):
No, man, leave me alone unless you really want to
fight John Jones. I respect because he fights me, but
leave me alone, don't. I'm not playing those childes game, right, Yeah,
leave me alone.

Speaker 2 (28:35):
Do you think you see the guys in MLMA going
to fight go in the box for the money, for
the money.

Speaker 3 (28:41):
They do it for the money. They look man, No, no, no,
there's only a select few people that make the big
money in the USC.

Speaker 1 (28:49):
Correct.

Speaker 3 (28:49):
It's the goud on his truth. I mean champions make money. Yes,
Lorenzo for Tita was the best. When Lorezo Fortito was there,
he would do these discretionary bonuses. Yeah, where they would
just give you money. He had an idea of when
he wanted a champion to make and he would make
sure you got it. So when I fought John Jones,
my contract was eighty five thousand dollars. I lost the

(29:10):
first time. On Monday, dan It called me and goes,
you did a great job. We're gonna send you a
check for a million dollars.

Speaker 1 (29:16):
What swear to God eighty five? And did you got?

Speaker 3 (29:19):
He gave me a million dollars. They gave me a
million dollars a check for the first time ever made
that obviously as a wrestler. It was the first time
I'd ever made seven figures. They called me and said,
you did a great job. Here you go. Then I
fought again a few months later and I had got
a new contract and it might have been three hundred thousand,
and then we sold a few hundred thousand pay per

(29:40):
views and they called me and said, hey, we're gonna
give you X amount of dollars to get you back
to a million dollars. Wow, they would do that, man,
They were like, because that's what people don't understand. Like,
I know they thought it, well, this guy, these guys
are underpaid. But it's like when you become a champion
and then you're benefiting the business they did carry you.

(30:04):
And but even even the lowest boxers make are so.

Speaker 1 (30:08):
Low bro like that makes seem like everybody making Floyd
made with the money.

Speaker 3 (30:12):
They are not all making that money, but they're making
thousand dollars.

Speaker 1 (30:16):
Right, I mean they make them look like but like
you said, but the good guys.

Speaker 3 (30:19):
Will make good money. What does a guy make that
so tanking? All them dudes are getting paid right now,
they're in a million. But they're they're the equivalent of
the Iliot, the porious and the israel out. Yes they're
they're those guys. But as you go down, as you
go down the card and you go down the pay scale,

(30:42):
I bet it's all pretty equivalent, are very equal. So yeah,
people talk like all boxers make money, they don't.

Speaker 2 (30:51):
You work for the company now in the commentary, but
how they're negotiating with Dana as a fighter, or do
you did you negotiate?

Speaker 3 (31:00):
I've managers, but I was always I was always really
good about that. I would stand on what I believed.
You know, one time I got he he was he
was like, that didn't happen. I was like, but it did, boss.
I was like, of course it did.

Speaker 1 (31:14):
Boss.

Speaker 3 (31:15):
I said, Uh, you were negotiating my contract when I
first came over, and I wanted like a certain amount
of money, didn't want to do it. Dana was like
kind of throwing a fit. Lorenzo goes, it's fine and
we'll figure it out. And by the time I got
to the airport, it was figured out right right, and
he was like, that didn't happen. I was like it did.
I was like, it's not a big deal because I
understand you have to protect your business right, and I

(31:36):
have to protect myself as a business because I'm a
small window to happen. But then when I was retiring,
right Hunter Campbell, who now does a lot of the
stuff with the guys, he calls my managers and he goes, so, guys,
what do you think, same as he made his champ
plus pay per view, Like, yeah, even though I wasn't
a champ, they still gave me the same pay I

(31:56):
made as a champion and the pay per view. So
it's like, I have nothing negative to say because I've
had all greater. The worst experience I had was that
when he said I don't want to give you that,
and I was like, well, okay, then I'll just fight
and then I won't have a contract and then we
can negotiate after that. And they're like, huh, we ain't

(32:17):
doing that. We ain't gonna let you get to Francis.
We ain't letting you get the undefeated heavyweight or light
heavyweight with no contract, where other people can start going, hey,
we want you right. So then eventually I just resound
the company.

Speaker 1 (32:31):
If Dana were to ever step down, would you run
the UFCATION?

Speaker 3 (32:34):
That would be a dream job for anybody. But of
course I would love to do something if they ever,
if they ever trusted me with that, I would do
the best job I ever could do, because it's one
of the greatest organizations in the world. It's one of
the biggest sports organizations in the world, and they've done
such a great job of building it that the job

(32:55):
itself is just don't don't mess it up. Because Dana
does what he does is he's so passionate about it
that I can't imagine the UFC without him.

Speaker 1 (33:05):
But if not, but Danna's standing on business.

Speaker 3 (33:07):
Now he standing on business. You can be his best friend.
He's gonna get you. He's gonna put You're gonna walk
you out the door and say, look that a little
bit I'm running out. You give a little small port
right there. Yeah, hit me up. That's good. That's pretty
good man, it's great. I'm taking that bottle. You can
take it.

Speaker 1 (33:25):
That's coming with me now, but you will get your
address with sing to you your dad.

Speaker 3 (33:30):
My pop's passed away, but I'm sorry that it's okay, but.

Speaker 1 (33:34):
We make sure we make sure you take that you tell.

Speaker 3 (33:37):
I won't drink it in his honor. I'm gonna do
exactly like him. My Positis show home. My Pathers had
the hard days. Man. My postle was working hard, and
he grew up hard, grew hard and working outside. My
dad used to show up sitting that truck for two
hours because he knew hard that at work gotta come
deal with us.

Speaker 1 (33:56):
Yeah, he probably had to help something days to come.
He did, Yes, he did.

Speaker 2 (34:03):
Joe Rogan, I didn't know a whole lot about Joe Rogan.
I just knew him as the guy that fear factor.

Speaker 3 (34:08):
So I didn't know that he became Joe Rogan.

Speaker 2 (34:11):
Yeah, because that's what I mean, because I love fear Factor.
And then they just got too they just got too
ridiculous with it. Me, I can't do this no more.
It was I mean, it was really good. The first
couple of seasons was really really good. And to see
what he's turned into as a podcaster. But in the MMA,
in UFC, he's the Howard Cosel.

Speaker 3 (34:30):
Yes, Yes, he's very good.

Speaker 1 (34:32):
He's I mean, he is very very good.

Speaker 3 (34:35):
I've never met a person that actually remembers more than Rogan.
We go to dinner after the fights. Yeah, and uh,
He'll be talking about events and you f C fifteen
and I'm like, UFC fifteen was that in two thousand and.

Speaker 1 (34:50):
Four, bro, we had three hundred Now you're talking about Yeah, He's.

Speaker 3 (34:54):
Like, I'm telling you like this, but his memory, Jurick
call all these things and I've never seen it anything
like it. But yeah, and and and Shannon. It says
something when you do a job just for the love
of doing the job, when you don't have to do it.
Joe doesn't have to do you with the Spotify thing
that he has going on and everything, and.

Speaker 2 (35:14):
Dana said that when he first started doing it, and
he did it for free. Yeah, he called a fight
for free the like, and you know then they've worked
it out something later. But just because he loved the
sports so much, and and you know he fights into obviously,
you know he he know, he works at it and uh,
uh but he does an unbelievable job.

Speaker 3 (35:33):
He's tremendous.

Speaker 1 (35:34):
Man.

Speaker 3 (35:34):
I think he does a great job of call the fights,
and I think that he and you could tell his
passion for it and everything. I mean, you guys do.
So you guys do like I mean, hours and hours
of TV a week. You gotta love this too, or
you can't do it. You can and you can feel it.
I can see it in YouTube. I've watched you from

(35:56):
Afar and I've admired how well you've done and how
you've really you really broke through the glass ceiling because
there was there was an idea of who you were
supposed to be at Fox. Yeah, and then eventually you
said this idea is now it doesn't work for me, right,
and you became bigger than that idea. And now it's like,
so I'm so happy. I don't really know you. Well, look,

(36:16):
I'm proud of you, but I'm happy for what you've
done and what you accomplished because you deserve it. Man,
hard work deserves to get credit for it.

Speaker 1 (36:23):
And I've watched it that. Yeah. Let me ask you this,
what have you most learned about money?

Speaker 2 (36:28):
Because growing up how you grew up, you know, living
out fifteen hundred bucks a month and you got a
twelve hundred dollars rent and then basically I got to
eat for the next twenty nine days. I got to
live up one hundred and fifty bucks. Yeah, now that
you have you make decent money. Yep, what have you
learned about it?

Speaker 3 (36:45):
Money's hard to keep. Money's very hard to keep. That
other people don't understand. Money's hard to keep. You pay
a lot, pay a lot of taxes, you pay a
lot of other things. It just gives you an opportunity.
I feel like money gives you the ability one you're
going to be exactly who you ever want it to be.
So if a person's ugly because they have money, they
always were ugly, they just didn't have the ability to

(37:06):
be ugly, You're going to be exactly who you want
to be. And you have access to more things that
you have to have. And I also learned that because
you have the ability to pay for stuff, most things
are free.

Speaker 2 (37:17):
Isn't that the craziest crazy thing. Well, you are to
have the most money, they get the most stuff for free.

Speaker 3 (37:21):
When you are living off that fifteen hundred, you want
to go buy, you want something, you got to pay
for it. But when you have the money that you
have and you can pay for it, everybody's like, could
you please just take this? And I just want to
see you have it. Hold it, Shannon, could you just
hold it? And you're like OK. And most times you're like,
I'd rather pay for its. That'll hold it for you.

(37:41):
It's like, it's just it's just that, but also just
that it gives you a free It's it's it's freedom.
It really is just freedom. Like it's it's a freedom
to do things and take care of the people that
you love more than anything. I bought mama house.

Speaker 1 (37:54):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (37:55):
That was one of my greatest accomplishments. Yes, to have
her get a big house.

Speaker 1 (38:01):
Right.

Speaker 3 (38:02):
And then my mom was a house cleaner whenever I
was growing up. So she would take us to these
people's houses and while she worked. The people were beautiful.
One family ast do remember to this day called the
Low Family in Louisiana, Lafayette. She'd go Monday and Wednesday.
There they gave us a car. They gave us like
a brand new car. Just this wonderful family people I had.

(38:23):
I made sure she had house cleaners when she was older. Wow.
So instead of going to clean people's houses, like those
are the things that I'm so proud of in my life,
in my career that you were to do for your mom.
I mean you know that you do. It's like there
are people in your life that mean more than anything,
and that's uh, you take care of them.

Speaker 2 (38:45):
Finding a bait obviously wrestling, you know, and the like
they come and to look like they beaten down your
door and said, oh yeah, I want I want to
because it's not like you know, you're down on television.
It's it's a hard job. It's a grimmy job. Your
moody some days better than others. When you found a wife,
how did you know?

Speaker 3 (39:05):
I've had multiple? So yeah, you get I'm not the
best in love, you know what?

Speaker 2 (39:10):
And and and I tell someone who's telling me this
the other day, They says, Shannon, the best and worst decision.
When you made the best decision, do you know it
was the best decision at the time, No?

Speaker 1 (39:20):
No. When you made the worst decision, did you know
it was the worst decision at the time.

Speaker 4 (39:24):
No.

Speaker 3 (39:24):
No. You just live with the decisions you make. That's
all you can really do. But you part of being
great is being selfish.

Speaker 1 (39:36):
You gotta be and.

Speaker 3 (39:37):
When you're so selfish, it's hard for relationships to work, absolutely,
and I think that is like probably the thing that
athletes need to worry about the most, because.

Speaker 1 (39:45):
You got to find somebody that understands yes, and not
many people do. They don't.

Speaker 3 (39:49):
It's really hard.

Speaker 2 (39:49):
Everybody say they can be Oh, I understand. Everybody can
be second until they actually have to be second.

Speaker 3 (39:55):
Until also until everybody can be second when they don't
have the moment there's a comfortability to life. It's like,
wait a minute, everything that we hoped would happen has
now happened. Not worry about, but it's not done yet.
The job's never done.

Speaker 4 (40:13):
No.

Speaker 3 (40:14):
I feel like for high thinkers like you and myself
to just retire. Could you imagine that as you die,
I was a part of you would die. And so
for me it's like I need to be chasing career.
I need to be I gotta work, a worker, gotta work.
It's what I was put on this earth to do.

(40:35):
But that can be seen as selfish.

Speaker 1 (40:36):
It is, and but that's the.

Speaker 2 (40:40):
That's the only way you can become great, the only
way there, and greatness is not a some time thing.

Speaker 1 (40:47):
It's an all the time thing.

Speaker 3 (40:48):
It's an all the time thing. You don't get to
be great just when you want to be great in
front of people. You got to be willing to do
that work behind closed doors. Yeah, but you don't never
know anything.

Speaker 2 (40:59):
Your biofe father was shot and killed by his second wife. Yep, yep,
father in self defense. Dude, you remember that?

Speaker 3 (41:08):
Oh yeah, I remember. I remember watching things. Given day
of nineteen eighty six, were at my aunt's house, Mardorie.
We're all sitting down, we ate, we're all watching the
color purple, and my mom getting a call and she

(41:30):
goes crazy. It was hysterical. I was a seven year
old kid. I had no idea what was going on.
Then they told her, your dad's just been killed. You
Joseph has just been killed. Your ex has been killed.
She goes crazy. She has to sit down now and
tell me that my older brother is twelve years older

(41:52):
than me. Imagine a nineteen year old kid learning that
his father's been killed. I met seven, just crying because
I don't have the greatest memories. I don't have the
I don't have the memories of my dad like like
your brother does, like my brother does. But I also
don't have like Shannon, I can retain one real vivid
memory of my father, and that was we were at

(42:14):
a truck stop because he drove trucks.

Speaker 1 (42:16):
That's it.

Speaker 3 (42:17):
That's the only real vivid memory I have of my father.
But my dad, Percy had already moved into my life
when I was three, so I'm four years into that
relationship with my mother, and it was just sad. Man.
I remember going to that funeral and I see my
dad in that casket. He's got two families, right, because

(42:41):
well my mom is not with him anymore. They have kids.

Speaker 1 (42:46):
Hurry, action told me that you still loved your dad.

Speaker 3 (42:48):
I don't think they ever fall out of love. It's
like something that they don't really let go of, especially
that first one. But my mom's sitting there with my dad,
and let me tell you, I knew my mom still
loved my dad. One time, I don't know if my dad.
I don't quite understand that my dad was I don't
know what it was. But my mom took the car

(43:12):
at a four way stop. The other woman was driving
the other car.

Speaker 1 (43:16):
She hit her.

Speaker 3 (43:18):
What she hit her, My mom was an angel. You
better hold My mom was an agent was an age.

Speaker 1 (43:26):
She can't real car said, why did you hit her?

Speaker 3 (43:30):
She goes, that's my call too, This is my call,
that's my call. I want to record, I go record.
I said, Oh my god, it was a little red light.
It was a bumper, but it wasn't like a hard hit.

Speaker 1 (43:43):
But she like she hit her.

Speaker 3 (43:45):
But yes, but yes, so yes, she must have still
loved my dad. But yeah, it was, it was. It
was awful.

Speaker 2 (43:51):
You mentioned that your stepfather being came in your life
at a very young age. Yes, what did you learn
from him?

Speaker 3 (43:58):
Everything? Everything personally been while I was man, he was
the best. He was the best. He he worked so hard.
He made decisions him and my mother that made me
appreciate them more than I don't know if I ever
could appreciate anyone in my life. When we were like

(44:21):
seven eight years old at that time, when my dad
got passed, they decided not to take over an assistance anymore.
We want to make it on our own. We were struggling,
but they did. They took no help. They just made
it on their own. Then they bought their first house together.
And then I watched that man get up in the
morning and he would go and work for the city

(44:42):
of Lafayette. It was hot, man, it was ninety five
one hundred degrees one hundred degree humidity. You know what
Louisiana's like. He would take the lime and make the
baseball fields and could cut the fields and the grass,
and he would come home at five point thirty, eat
real quick, and he would get a bath because we
didn't have a shower, jump in his truck and go

(45:05):
to a pizza parlor and wash dishes to make an
extra sixty bucks every time he did that. And he
did that constantly. And then when I got old enough,
I realized more what he was doing. When the days
that he wasn't going back to there, he was going
to the cemetery and he was cutting it and he
was weed eating next to the graves to make more money.

(45:26):
So when I got old enough, he started taking me
with him and he's like, you get thirty five dollars
a month, so every time you do this, I guess
I made eight or ten dollars, right, because it would
take us a little bit of time. I learned to work.
He taught me to work, and I think by him
teaching me to work, it is defined my life. It's

(45:48):
defined my life. I don't. I was the captain of
the Olympic wrestling team and it's because I worked hard.
They saw me. They saw me and said, I want
this guy to lead our team.

Speaker 1 (46:01):
Is that the type of father you are? You got
to be with Percy, what's to your own?

Speaker 3 (46:05):
That's what I try to be for my kids. I
try to be present and show them I'm working. Man,
I'm making a life for you guys that can be
and I hope that you see and appreciate what I'm
doing because while I don't see the struggle, they don't
see the struggle that I saw. They do see that

(46:26):
their dad is willing to just I took my daughters
to a photo shoot I did for Monson and Energy
the other day and they were like, Dad, you work hard.
I was like, I wanted to give you a just
kind of see what dad does when he gets up
at five am and he's back hold by six to
make sure you guys have dinner.

Speaker 1 (46:43):
Right.

Speaker 3 (46:43):
It's like those types of things they mean the world
of me. My dad was the best.

Speaker 1 (46:49):
You lost your daughter I did man eighteen wheel accident.

Speaker 3 (46:54):
Yeah, that was the worst. That was the worst. I've
had a lot of things happened in my life that
I try not to let define me. I try to like,
I try not to let like certain things define me,
like the bad. But yeah, that was the worst. I

(47:15):
was twenty three years old. I had a daughter named
kitaan memory, and we were in college or just finishing college.
So her mom was from Colleen, Texas, and they were
driving home to see her parents.

Speaker 4 (47:31):
And.

Speaker 3 (47:34):
But her car didn't have air conditioning, and she was like,
I'm gonna put my kid in the car with my
friend because they have a newer car. Yeah, they got
reared by Aten wheeler. That was the worst. If she
was with her mom, she would have been fine. But
we make these decisions at times that we think are

(47:56):
the right decision, and it has killed her mom's life.

Speaker 2 (48:00):
I would you know what, DC, I was about to
ask you. I bet she beat herself up. I should
have I should have just rolled the window down. She
should have been with me.

Speaker 3 (48:08):
Ye, her mom's life is it hadn't been the same,
has it? No? That girl, that girl was on a
track team at Oklahoma State. I went to school, and
she had such a big future and now it's like
she's at home taking care of her mother that that
losing that kid, losing our kids like it killed her.
I was able to I was able to spind it

(48:32):
and say that every time I wrestle, every time I fight,
I have an angel sitting on the cage to watch
over me. Her mom was never able to do that.
It's sad, man, It's yeah, that was the worst thing
that's ever happened.

Speaker 1 (48:44):
Because parents, we expect that kids to bury us. Yes,
we don't expect to bury it.

Speaker 3 (48:49):
Not that young not that young man. She's three and
a half months old, so like to put her in
a casket. Yeah, that shit sucks. I even think just
thinking about it, like it sucks.

Speaker 2 (49:02):
Has it changed the relationship that you had with subsequent
quid kid that you hold them tighter, that you like
you realize how just how fragile life is that tomorrow
is not promised even three hours from right now isn't promised.

Speaker 3 (49:19):
No, I know, yeah, it's it's uh, it is. It's
bad to the point that Shannon, at times, you gotta
like you have to I have to, like, I have
to like consciously try not to be as much of
a like a helicopter parent. I'm trying to, like because

(49:40):
I know how important it is for them to experience things.
But it is scary. Like my my son is getting
old enough, I just started. I let him ride his
bike to the barber shop now to get a haircut.
That was something I could have never done. Never talk
about it. A bifigre or motorbiketorycle one of those electric
electric by Okay, okay, okay. So I let everybody, but

(50:02):
I always but I make him put his location on
the moment he leaves the house, location on. So I'm trying, dude,
but it's hard. It really has. Uh, it really has
changed me in terms of parenting. You try, you try.
It's important. Like I did a lot growing up. I
had a lot of freedom.

Speaker 1 (50:22):
Yeah, and it.

Speaker 3 (50:25):
It gave me a little bit of like street smarts
and the ability to adjust and make my way around life.

Speaker 2 (50:30):
You I mean probably people probably wouldn't know this about you,
but you've had a I mean you've had a lot
of death in your family.

Speaker 1 (50:37):
Grandmother, your cousin, you lost a child at a very
young age.

Speaker 3 (50:42):
M hmm.

Speaker 2 (50:44):
People ask me because they know how close I am
with my grandmother. They would share, Shannon, how did you
get over? I said, you never get over it. You
just get better at dealing with it. Yeah, how have
you been able to get better at dealing with lost?

Speaker 3 (50:57):
Uh? Well, when you lose a kid at that age,
right like, you feel like nothing ever is going to
feel worse. But I've done I've managed to I've managed
to learn how to take those things and try to

(51:18):
make them push me forward. So with my daughter, like
I had never made a United States team after my
daughter passed, I made six in a row. Swear to God.
My daughter passed in June or in May of ay. Yes, yes,
and from by all this, I wrestled in the World

(51:39):
Championships for the first time, in the Olympic Games, and
all the way through my mom when she passed a
couple of years ago. Obviously I don't do anything competitive anymore.
But in terms of my media career has just got bigger. Yep,
because I work harder now because I know that even
though I don't have to provide for her in the
way that I did before, I still need to work

(52:02):
because she was part of that one. Yes, I want
to do more TV because she watched everything, right, so
even though she's not there watching now, like I know
she watched it. Also, I try to. I try to
spin it. It's the only way because otherwise it cripples you.
It does. It really does cripple you. Like you and
your like I've heard stories about you and your grandmother
and it's like in all special old lady she was

(52:23):
to you.

Speaker 1 (52:24):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (52:24):
But yeah, you don't. You don't ever get over losing
somebody you love that much. You can't.

Speaker 2 (52:30):
This cutting weight thing. You said that, and this Thanksgiving
you weigh two fifty seven. Yeah, and basically forty five
fifty days you were down to two h four Yep.

Speaker 1 (52:42):
Obviously that's very taxing on the body.

Speaker 2 (52:44):
Yes, it is very taxing to cut that kind of
water weight, because that's not that's not all just you know,
good weight.

Speaker 1 (52:51):
Yeah, and you went the renal fairure at one time, right,
I did.

Speaker 3 (52:56):
I did Olympic Games. Yeah, but I wasn't that big
at the time. I was just in wrestling. I didn't
have the access to the I didn't have the access
of the resources. I couldn't have done that without my
chef I had, like Tyler Minton was working for him
at the time.

Speaker 1 (53:12):
He uh.

Speaker 3 (53:15):
Every meal, every meal, every drink. He would feed me.
Then he would write it he would feed me, then
he would write it down. I got to drink at
kombucha every day. That was it. Outside of water, that's
all I had, and some sort of like electrolyte stuff
to make sure I wasn't cramping when I went to

(53:35):
the cage to train it. But outside of like that,
I had water and eat every meal ego and at
the right times when I was wrestling, I would I
would eat until Wednesday and then I just would not
eat until I wait in on Friday or Saturday. I
would go three days without anything. But Rob Dwallace Wally

(53:56):
still does that. The champion won thirty five years. He
just will not eat.

Speaker 1 (54:01):
I don't.

Speaker 3 (54:01):
I don't. You don't have to do it that way anymore.
You don't use that money. But yeah, I would. Uh
my kidneys quit on me at the Olympic Games. Never
in the hospital that was in a diamond.

Speaker 1 (54:15):
Because they don't let you take diarretics does it.

Speaker 3 (54:17):
Can't take diretics, can't take ivs, can't do nothing. If
I could have took an IV after weighs, I'd have
been fined r right. It was right before the Olympic
Games that they did away with ivs. I didn't want
to cheat. I didn't want to cheat my body, dude.
That was that was what's what's the most weight you've
had to cut? So by by design, if I was

(54:42):
fighting on if I was fighting on Saturday, when I
showed up to Vegas on Tuesday, I probably was like
two twenty if it was good. But I remember one
time I in New York against Rumbo and Buffalo, I
was like thirty one on Sunday before the fight on Saturday,

(55:04):
what two thirty one.

Speaker 1 (55:05):
And you gotta get down to two oh five.

Speaker 3 (55:08):
Yeah, But I was like I was heavy, so I'd
go run lose like five pounds. You lose a lot
of weight chanting, yeah, and you drink a lot of water.
Those these nutritions are so good at manipulating weight. Now, yes,
you have no idea.

Speaker 1 (55:22):
So like.

Speaker 3 (55:24):
If I'm like two seventeen to eighteen to twenty.

Speaker 1 (55:26):
Like two twenty, you sweets by you and your wheel
because because now.

Speaker 3 (55:29):
I've got that with two gallons of water in a day, right, right,
that's sixteen pounds a minimum. So by the time I
get in that song and I'm like, it all comes off,
but it's only for a short period of time, right,
Like I'm at two o four and a half or
maybe an hour.

Speaker 2 (55:46):
When you reap, when you re hydrate, Yeah, what are you?
What are you going back up to? You go rebound
to what? Twenty twenty?

Speaker 4 (55:53):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (55:53):
When John Jones? For when I thought John Jones and
I was in peak physical condition, Yes, there was nothing
I could do to get over to twenty two. Like,
I mean literally trained there for the last four weeks
of camp because I was so locked in. Right when
I fought Rumbo Johnson. I weigh two thirty one on
Saturday night when I thought him. The next day, wow,
I weighed two or five Yeah, two of I gained
twenty six pounds overnight. That's too much. I felt so

(56:16):
sluggish and horrible, right, but yeah, I've cut a lot
of weight. I used you lose like ten pounds an
hour ago when you do those weight cuts.

Speaker 1 (56:24):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (56:26):
Do you feel your height? I mean because like you
a little, but probably your take under six foot tall.

Speaker 3 (56:33):
I'm five. I've gotten shorter. I'm like on a good
day five ten and a half, I was, I've shrunk sham.
Have you shrunk out off? You gotten shorter?

Speaker 1 (56:41):
Yeah? I think so too. I think as we get older,
we shrink it. I believe I have.

Speaker 2 (56:46):
But when you, when you you used like for you,
I would think somebody your side your height would be ideal.
It is ideal for wrestling because you because you got
a short turns over, but you got long.

Speaker 3 (56:58):
Legs, compact. Yeah, and I'm good at gtting close once
I get, once I can get. If I get they
say I'm sticky. If I get close to you, I'm
sticking to you like you're stuck in the fly trap.
Like seriously, it's like, so.

Speaker 1 (57:10):
You tried to close the distance.

Speaker 3 (57:11):
Or if I got close, you're in trouble. If I
can grab you by the head, I'm punching you up
a cuts. If I can grab your leg, then really
in trouble because I had a thousand ways to finish
the takedown. The moment I got your leg, you're in
a lot of trouble. Yeah, because I'm either going to
move here, left, right, up, down. It's all subtleties. It's
the same thing like how what so, Like Shannon, I

(57:32):
could I could actually try to guard you right now,
and I could not, because even if you might not
be able to run as fast as you did, you're
gonna give me something in the shoulders or something in
the eyes, you're gonna get some separation.

Speaker 1 (57:44):
Correct.

Speaker 3 (57:44):
That's me and wrestling. I'm just like here, here, here, here,
and they get lost.

Speaker 2 (57:51):
It's funny like when you grab somebody here because I'm
watching these boxes and you watch him close up. He'll
throw a punt and he put his hand up because
he knows me, and he'll do this, and he'll throw that. Oh,
he'll do this and he'll do that. So you know, like,
if I got this, I know what he's gonna do.

Speaker 3 (58:08):
Absolutely, I'll manipulate you to do what I want you
to do. Wow, yeah, I'll manipulate you. That's why, like
my takedown offense, I think I might have landed fifty
percent of my takedown was forty. Wow. They're like, dude,
you only landed forty. Yeah. But the first few aren't
designed to take you down, right, They're to set you
up for number four, five, and six, and I really

(58:29):
want to get you out. Then you get up in
the air, I flip you or I trip you or
it's like yeah, it's like it's all setups.

Speaker 1 (58:36):
You mentioned boxing was your first love, though.

Speaker 3 (58:39):
Yep, I did, because it's all I knew. It's what
we knew. Like they would watch my uncles all watch
The Wild War to Sports every weekend and we'd watch
like George Foreman clips and mom and I'll leave clips
Mike Tyson. So it's like we're watching this greatness and
it looks like us, right, that is where the difference was.

(59:00):
You watch that greatness and it's like, Wow, this dude
looks like he could be where I'm from and he's
making He's the man, He's a superstar. That's what drop
drew me in the boxing, because every story was about
a kid from a tough neighborhood. Yes, he was from Michigan,
he was from Louisville, Kentucky. He is from like just
all these billy billy streets. Yeah mean street's like wait
a minute, this looks very familiar. And look at him today.

(59:23):
So yeah, it just drew me in. Like Budd and Canilo,
that's a tough fight. I saw Bud recently. He's big yo.
Bud's son is ridiculous. We had WrestleMania right up the street.
He got a belt. He walked past me and he
was looking at me the whole time. He looked at me,

(59:46):
say you the wrestler I knocked you out on UFC.
I was like, boy, you crazy when he's crazy, Budd
told me at the whip him. Bud said, he went
to sewn uh, what's his name, Sean Crawford, Sean Taylor, SHAWNA,
Shawn Shan Porter. Bud said, Sean Budd said that saying
what Sean Porter said, my dad knocked you out. Sean

(01:00:07):
Porter at the caller and be like, Welly's that's crazy.
But I had to speak you he crazy, But yes,
he's bigger. It's a big time fight. That a little
better have his game ready because if not, he's gonna
get beat by Bud.

Speaker 2 (01:00:20):
Yeah, Bud, but I mean, like I said, Budd, but
I mean Bud walks Bud party. You know last part
of you know Junior Middlewe at one fifty four, but
Bud walks around in like one eight.

Speaker 3 (01:00:30):
He's big man. And he's tall too. Yeah, he's very tall.
He looked big. I saw him inside the the APEX
training yeap, he looked big. You would watch him train two?

Speaker 1 (01:00:39):
No, we did. We did an interview with him and
he I say, he's stronger than your think.

Speaker 3 (01:00:44):
He's stronger than you could tell you.

Speaker 2 (01:00:45):
Yeah, he's strong his hands for he does. You were
bullied as a kid. Is that why you got into
wrestling and fighting him? Because you were bully? You like,
I ain't taking this issue.

Speaker 3 (01:00:54):
So I was bullied bad Shannon, Like, this guy used
to beat me up all the time. He would beat
me up for the reason. It was like no reason
to fight me. He would just pick off me. If
they could have three other kids fight, he would show
up to watch the fight. The ones that fight was over.
He's like, sh I might as well give me one.
Did they get a I was scared too. I was
so scared of him, and then I learned to wrestle.

(01:01:16):
Once I got him was over. Man. Once I got him,
once it was over. But yeah, yeah, it gave me
self defense. I think wrestling is so important for kids
because then you learn to defend yourself and also it
gives you a confidence. I got this academy in Gilroy,
the Dating Court Wrestle Academy. Kids walk in there hunched over,
looking like scared because the ones that have been doing

(01:01:39):
it for a while have this intensity about him. They're
strong and they're confidence. Six months later they're like walking
in with some I'm like, okay, yeah, that's what I need.
That's what wrestling gives you. I think it's the best.

Speaker 1 (01:01:51):
Right. Have you ever been arrested for screen fighting?

Speaker 3 (01:01:54):
One time? I got a wrestling in college when I
was a freshman. I punched the guy.

Speaker 1 (01:01:58):
Man, what do you do?

Speaker 3 (01:02:00):
So I went to a junior college in Kansas, and
one of the biggest mistakes that young black men make
when they go to different places is they almost try
to recreate themselves. You can be a great kid, but
you will portray yourself as a gangster or a bad
guy because you want people to not only respect you,
you want to make sure you fit in and they

(01:02:22):
kind of fear you a little bit. Yep, it's like
very important. So I did that, and I'm at this
party and we got this party and the guy comes
out it is his house, and he starts talking and
he said something that I viewed as disrespectful when he
came charges towards me, so I punched him. Bro I
don't know if his jaw was like super like loose,
because he went down and his jaw broke really bad.

(01:02:46):
So blood's like everywhere we run off. Me and all
my wrestler friends. The cops come to get us. We're
in Kansas. I was like, well, man, we saw I
saw this Mexican dude do it and run away. They said, nah, man,
it was you. It was you.

Speaker 1 (01:03:01):
You're not trying to put it off.

Speaker 3 (01:03:03):
I try to put it on a Mexican dude.

Speaker 4 (01:03:04):
Man.

Speaker 3 (01:03:04):
I was like, oh, I ain't got many brown people
out here. They ain't got many brown people out here.
They said, no, it was you. They put me in jail.
I was crying, dude. Then they put they put me
in jail on a Friday night, Shaannon, and in those
little towns Monday, and then once Monday come they got
seventy two hours to see and they kept me in
jail till Wednesday.

Speaker 1 (01:03:24):
Damn. I was crying.

Speaker 3 (01:03:26):
My mom actually to pay them to pay to get
me out. She had to think, like put it up
against her house to get me out of jail. She
put her house on the line as a as counter
for the for the baill yep. And then I was like,
this one will do anything for me. I'm the one
that messed up. I ran her phone bill up, calling

(01:03:47):
her every day thousands of thousands of dollars. They ain't
had nothing to pay that, but she answered it every time.
That's why she was the best to me. Everybody like, oh,
you love your mama more than you love anybody in
the world. You saw what she did for me. She
said she was the best.

Speaker 1 (01:04:03):
You tried some everything. You sold drugs as a kid.

Speaker 3 (01:04:07):
You tried to Channing. I was a bad drug dealer.
You don't want to hear this story, shading. We made
horrible We made fake drugs one time, old on.

Speaker 1 (01:04:18):
So when you cut grass and just put it.

Speaker 3 (01:04:20):
This was when I was a kid. No, no, no, no,
Back when I was growing up, it wasn't weed. It
was cracked. H I tried to sell cracks, Shanning. I was, bro,
I need it twenty dollars.

Speaker 1 (01:04:31):
Bro, you don't know how to cook.

Speaker 3 (01:04:33):
I don't know how to cook. I don't know. I
don't know nothing about it. But listen what we did though.
We took some wax, yeah, and put or gel on
it because I guess that it must number the face
or something. One of my friends told me that one
he was Yeah. So I gave it to the drug.
I gave it to the dude you gave he gave
me the money. He's dark.

Speaker 1 (01:04:53):
He look up.

Speaker 3 (01:04:53):
I took off running. I took off.

Speaker 1 (01:05:00):
May he called me man. I gave you man, you
got that bad. Ain't the crack?

Speaker 3 (01:05:06):
Now?

Speaker 1 (01:05:08):
That was the last time.

Speaker 3 (01:05:09):
That was the last time I ever dried some stupid
shit like that. I was like, man's sports for me.
It's bad.

Speaker 1 (01:05:17):
Could a boxer would be the m M A fighter
in the street fight?

Speaker 3 (01:05:20):
No, No, they would get taken them. It would happen
too fast. I saw James Tony fight Randy Coulteur. James
Tony is one of the slickeest best boxers of all time.
He tapped without actually tapping Randy. He just waved at
the ref like saved me. That's what happens when the
boxers fight. The baddest man on the planet baddest man

(01:05:41):
on the planet is a mixed martial arts fighter, nothing
else in terms of hand to hand combat. Yeah, the
baddest man on the planet is the UFC heavyweight champion.
Every time, unless Francis and Gano was out there fighting
for someone else, and there's a chance that he's the
baddest man on the planet, he might beat whoever we

(01:06:03):
have because he's that good. But if not, it's either
tom asminav Franceson and John Jones. Right now, those are
the bad haestmen on the planet.

Speaker 1 (01:06:11):
Nobody else.

Speaker 2 (01:06:13):
We come back and have a conversation five years, ten
years from now, what's DC doing.

Speaker 3 (01:06:22):
Probably the same thing, probably doing the same thing, work
in UFC fights. I love my job. I love calling fights.
I think I have the best job in the world, podcasting,
doing television. Same because I don't think that right now.
I don't think that right now. I'm willing to stop you.
Like we said earlier, you're a worker.

Speaker 1 (01:06:41):
I'm a worker.

Speaker 3 (01:06:43):
I just might be living in the town wherever my
son or my daughter goes to college. I just can't
let it go. I told my daughter the other day,
if you, I said, pick a school close and I'll
pay everything.

Speaker 1 (01:06:53):
You want to get it.

Speaker 3 (01:06:57):
You're thinking of colleges yet she goes, what, No, it's
just just that I'm thirteen. I go, could you go
to cal Like? Stay close? I go. I'll pay your rent,
I'll give you a stipend, I'll do everything. She's like, No,
you don't have to. You're you're good. You want to
get away from my ass Courtmia, Yes, you know what
I man if a Courtmia or Cormier Cormier Cormier Cormier DC.

(01:07:20):
That was good.

Speaker 4 (01:07:22):
All my life, grinding all my life, sacrifice, Rustle Pa
the price, wanta slice, Got the brother Dice, Swap all
my life. Poppy grinding all my life, All my life,
grinding all.

Speaker 3 (01:07:34):
My life, sacrifice, Hustle bat the price.

Speaker 4 (01:07:38):
Want a slice?

Speaker 3 (01:07:39):
Got the brother dice the swap all my life. Poppy
grinding all my life,