Club Shay Shay - John Elway Part 1

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John Elway, one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time, joins Shannon Sharpe on Club Shay Shay for an unforgettable conversation about football royalty, comeback greatness, and life after the NFL. Elway opens by reflecting on being the most feared and gifted QB of his era, the only player to throw for 3,000 yards and rush for 200 yards in seven straight seasons, retiring as the NFL’s winningest quarterback with 148 wins and a league-record 47 fourth-quarter game-winning drives.

The Hall of Famer walks through his legendary résumé — NFL MVP, AFC Offensive Player of the Year, five Super Bowl starts, back-to-back championships, Super Bowl XXXIII MVP, and becoming the first person to ever win a Super Bowl as both a player and general manager. He shares why Denver made him “The Duke of Denver” and “King of the Comeback.”

Elway and Shannon reminisce about the origins of Club Shay Shay at Broncos training camp, their card-playing days, favorite memories as teammates, and the infamous Seattle touchdown. Elway explains why Shannon was always his second-favorite receiver — right after the open one — and how patience helped Sharpe grow into a Hall of Famer.

The episode dives into Elway’s toughest Super Bowl losses to the Giants, Redskins, and 49ers, how he handled depression, death threats, and the pressure that followed. He details the devastating Jacksonville playoff loss that led to the famous “It ain’t in the game plan, go get open” moment — and how those failures fueled Denver’s underdog victory over the Packers in Super Bowl XXXII.

Elway recounts the Helicopter Run, winning back-to-back Super Bowls, retiring at 36 as a champion and MVP, and why he walked away instead of chasing a three-peat. He compares eras, explains how many seasons he could play today, and revisits his “welcome to the NFL” moments, worst injuries, and legendary arm strength.

The conversation shifts to Stanford, missing the Heisman, refusing to play for the Colts, Terry Bradshaw’s criticism, and the full-circle moment of Bradshaw handing him the Lombardi Trophy. Elway opens up about being drafted by the Yankees, choosing football, and his Mount Rushmore of NFL players who also played baseball.

Finally, Elway reflects on his years as Broncos GM — drafting Von Miller, recruiting Peyton Manning, building the 2015 championship defense — along with regrets like passing on Josh Allen, thoughts on today’s young quarterbacks, the “Elway Rule,” money advice, investing, business ventures with Michael Jordan and Wayne Gretzky, and the lessons of sacrifice that shaped his life.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
You gotta set this up.

Speaker 2 (00:00):
Okay, So this is the AFC Championhip yap. Less than
ten minutes ago. We're third and six and we need
this hurst out.

Speaker 3 (00:06):
Cauld. I believe if we don't get the first out,
we're gonna lose this game. We're gonna lose.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
Starts going well, they ain't in the game plan plan,
and I said it is now, so go down seven yards.

Speaker 3 (00:19):
A one hundred and fifty plays. How do I know
one play that's not that's not in the game play.
It is now now go get over.

Speaker 4 (00:25):
All my life, grinding all my life, sacrifice, hustle, pet price,
one slice got the broc geist, the swap all my life.
I've been grinding all my life, all my life, drowning
all my life, sacrifice, hustle, pet Price, one slice got
the protect geist.

Speaker 1 (00:44):
The squat all my life.

Speaker 4 (00:45):
I've been grinding all my life.

Speaker 3 (00:49):
Hello, welcome to another episode of Club Sha Shay. I
am your host, Shennon Sharp. I'm also the proprie of
Club Sha Sha stopping by very special guests stopping by
for conversation on the drink today. One of the greatest
quarterbacks of all time, one of the most Fairit and
gifted quarterbacks ever to play in the NFL. He's the
only player in the NFL history to pass for more
than three thousand yards rush for more than two hundred
yards in the same season seven consecutive times. He's one

(01:11):
of the winningst quarterbacks in NFL history to with one
hundred and forty eight victories when he retired. He's ranked
number one in NFL history and fourth quarter comebacks, game
winning drives, or game saving drives with forty seven when
he retired. He's an NFL MVP in nineteen eighty seven,
Offensive Player of the Year in nineteen ninety three, a
member of the NFL All Decade Teams of the nineteen nineties.
He's also a member of the very prestigious one hundredth

(01:31):
Anniversary team, which means he's one of the hundred greatest
players to ever play in the NFL. He's the first
quarterback to start five Super Bowls. He won back to
back Super Bowls as a player, helping the Broncos win
their first ever Super Bowl. He's the Super Bowl MVP
of Super Bowl thirty three. He also won the Super
Bowl as a GM and executive for the Denver Broncos.
He's the first person to win a Super Bowl as
a player and a GM A first ballot Hall of Famer,

(01:54):
He's in the College Football Hall of Fame, Colorado Sports
Hall of Fame, Denver Bronco Ring of Fame. His number
seven is one of the three retired by the Denver Broncos.
A nine time Pro Bowler, a five time All ALC,
three time All Pro, greatest and most accomplished player in
Broncos history of Broncos Legend Football Royalty, Denver's favorite son,
the King of the Comeback, the Duke of Denver. He's

(02:14):
the third greatest trivial player in Broncos history, behind myself
and Duke Barney Shavers, my teammate by quarterback. Here you
are the living legend, John Ilwick. Tell you what to do?

Speaker 1 (02:26):
Can you fall me around with all that reduction? Wow,
that's a nice introduction.

Speaker 3 (02:30):
When when you hear all those things, and obviously you've
been retired to over two decades and you hear that
because and I tell people, when you play and you
don't really have a chance to reflect on it, it's
not until you're over with that you reallyct hemn and
people remind you of just how great you were.

Speaker 1 (02:45):
Yeah, yeah, I mean it's yeah, you do kind of
forget it.

Speaker 2 (02:48):
I mean the farther you get away from it, right,
then you move on with life. And especially when it
was the gym, and then once you know, a couple
of years ago and left the Broncos as the GM,
then it was like you kind of move on to
a different life. And so it's kind of it's fun
to come back and visit it, right And so yeah,
it's you know, and that's why this Netflix film is
great too, And it was fun doing that too, to
go back and revisit.

Speaker 1 (03:08):
The memories, jog your memory. Yeah, it has been that
long ago.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
Right, so to go back and jog and remember all
the great things, all the fun we had, and so
it's it's it's fun to look back and enjoy a
little bit forget it.

Speaker 3 (03:21):
It's really fun to have you on Club Shape Shape.
Do you remember when Club Sha Shape started?

Speaker 4 (03:26):
It?

Speaker 1 (03:26):
Did? I can't. It was in the locker room, but
I can't.

Speaker 3 (03:28):
Remember nineteen ninety six Wes in training camp, Keith Burns
rod Smith room, because that's where we gambled, we played
video games, we played cards, we did all those things.
And I remember nobody wanted to be on the eighth
floor because that's where that's where all the noise were
if we weren't going to bed before probably two o'clock
in the morning. But I always thought it was very various.

(03:49):
I don't know why. This is what I want to ask.
Why was it so important for you? Because you you
would gamble with us when we're in the locker room
shooting poppy shot with the basketball, you put your pre
dm down, you gamble with us. I was that so
important for you to do that? Well?

Speaker 1 (04:02):
Number one, I liked doing it.

Speaker 3 (04:04):
You like trying to take our money exactly.

Speaker 1 (04:06):
I figured, I thought, you guys are easy targets. I'm
gonna show.

Speaker 2 (04:10):
Up because I love to play cards, you know, I
pet do those type of things. But you know, and
also I think you know, it was like as a quarterback,
I always wanted to be a part of the team.
Remember of the team, right, because every man, you know,
so many times you get put on the pedestal. It
was always important for me to try to get myself
off that pedestal and spend time with teammates and you know,
play games and you know, play cards and.

Speaker 1 (04:32):
You know, have fun and get to know everybody, right.

Speaker 2 (04:34):
So that's why it was always important to me because
it was like I always wanted to be a part
of the team.

Speaker 1 (04:38):
I didn't want to be above the team. I wanted
to be a part of it, right. So that's why
it was always.

Speaker 3 (04:41):
And it was always because we're at the back of
the plane, we're rolling dice in the alley till Mike
put a cobox into that, we were playing cards, We're
doing all these things. I remember in training camp when
we would go out and uh, we'd get a knife
off one of those once to two times that we're
in training camp and we'd go to the Smiley Moose
and you're like, hey, guys, what y'all doing tonight? Like, man,
I guess we just go to the moves and you
would show up. You know, we made sure you were

(05:03):
protected and naw, he ain't taking no pitche of insign
on autographs. He's just having a good time with the teammates.
But for you to do that, do you think that
that happens enough in today's game?

Speaker 2 (05:12):
You know, I think that you know, it's I get
asked the question all the time, wouldn't you love to
play now?

Speaker 3 (05:18):
In today's game. Yeah, you know.

Speaker 2 (05:20):
And my comment is no, because I had such a
great time when we played, and you know, things were great.

Speaker 1 (05:25):
I think the game was.

Speaker 2 (05:26):
Obviously the game's changed, correct, The rules have changed, athletes
have changed, social media has changed so much in the
change so much of it right, And I think that
you know, you look at ninety eight, thirty s, both
thirty two and thirty three, the ninety you know, even
really since when Mike came back ninety five, when Mike
came back and we had such good football teams that
it was just so much fun to be together and
the right and Mike put the right kind of guys

(05:47):
on the football team and so everybody got along and
it really was a big family.

Speaker 1 (05:51):
He was we talked about.

Speaker 2 (05:52):
So you know, that's why it's like I loved playing
when I played.

Speaker 1 (05:57):
I think today, you know, and it's hard.

Speaker 2 (05:59):
I don't think it's the player's fault, but you know,
the money is so much bigger now, you know, you
have social media, and players are doing so much more
now off the field than we're kind.

Speaker 1 (06:07):
Of used to it. They have the they have the
opportunity to do that, so God bless them. But I
think it just that doesn't create the team that we had,
and then the closeness that we had on our team, right,
and plus I think Mike also helped with that a lot.
A lot of times they let us.

Speaker 3 (06:22):
You know, we told that we had we had, we
have hope, we had no night.

Speaker 1 (06:26):
You can see no night.

Speaker 2 (06:26):
But then we'd have hat day on ye go, hey,
you go visit Mike and we want a hat day.
So I'd go up and visit Mike and get a
hat day on Friday, and he goes, yeah, but you
better practice your ass off exactly, and so we can't
back down and said, I got a boy, but we
better practice our ass off.

Speaker 3 (06:41):
So I would share a story that I've never shared
it before, but you know this, when Mike got back,
we had this thing in training camp where we had
we go bowling offense against defense, and we had a
fishing tournament. Yeah, first fish, biggest fish, most fish. Yeah.
I went to King Supers, how about fish and the
prone put it on and throw it out there. A

(07:04):
little bit. I forgot that part. I forgot. I didn't
take that part advancy. I didn't take that party man,
But I real officiated the guys like hold on either
you fishing in the Pacific Ocean and this is a
pard the big king salmon or something. Hey man, I
was just trying. I was just trying to win.

Speaker 2 (07:24):
But even that, on top of that fishing, just getting
I mean, I think we played golf that one day.
I think we played nine holes, right, we go play
nine holes, have the fishing deal. But those are the
type of things Mike the dead Mike did that allowed us.

Speaker 3 (07:35):
To really to really bond as a team. And I
think the thing is John, we really sincerely loved being
around each other. I mean, it wasn't a race to
get up out of there. You know, we got there
on time, but guys, we stayed around. We were shooting
poppy shots. We were rolling dice. I mean it'd be
six and ask Steve Backwards to say, many y'all gonna
get me divorce because you know he's married and he's
rolling dice with the single guys. But it was just fun.

(07:56):
We really enjoyed being around each other, and I think
that really helped the team bonding and helped us become
as close as we became.

Speaker 2 (08:02):
Oh no doubt, I mean that, you know, and then
we got in tough times and you know, tough situations
and games and those type things. I think all that
stuff really helped us out. Plus we're really good, so
it was fun being really good.

Speaker 3 (08:13):
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(09:32):
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It's good to be right. People as to ask me,
what do you think John's first impression was when he
met you? Well, I got you now, so you can
because I remember my sister say, Shannon, don't go out
there bull driving with that man. You out there to
try to make the team and to help win some
games or something. Don't go out there messing around and

(09:54):
joking and laughing and all the thing. I couldn't help myself, exactly,
I can't.

Speaker 1 (09:59):
You know what was You know? The thing is, Shannon,
you were you were outside to start with as why
not right, which was which was for me a great
thing because you were a big target, right, Yeah, I'd
had the Three.

Speaker 2 (10:10):
Amigos for so long, you know, but you know Rod
came along, it was a bigger target. But that were
you did you come in the same year as Roner
No I came in in ninety ninety when I came
in and the okay.

Speaker 3 (10:20):
Because remember you didn't practice squad and he didn't get
the start until Mike came in ninety five.

Speaker 1 (10:23):
Okay, that's right.

Speaker 2 (10:24):
So now I have a tough time with the days
a long time ago. But but you know you were
the first big target, right because I you know, I
had the Three Amigos. Now they were you know, they
were great players and you know, but totally different. So
I was looking for a big target. So I love
seeing Shannon outside and watching him run around because he
could run and catch and had great hands and so
it was just a matter I just remember you were

(10:45):
little what's the word I'm looking for, the experienced a
little slow, little raw? Yeah there is, yeah, right, wrong now,
a little wrong? So you know not and I don't
know how much Thrivata state we threw it a bunch,
but it.

Speaker 3 (11:02):
Was very simple six six five that would hold six
six five on one ready break. So uh but and
the thing is, I just remember we had this drill
and you, I don't even remember who the third quarterback was,
but knew it was you and cool and the dB
was in front of us, and you know, we take
off and you would throw it and we try to

(11:22):
jump over to dB and catch the football. And I
remember I drew this sign and I was like, I
would have to draw the talls Dennis Smith, who's six
for a kahuna. I was like, why I got to
try to jump up over him? Why couldn't I get
a Kip Carrington? Why can't I jump up over kill?
But you threw the ball and I jumped over him
and I literally like had my knees on his shoulder
and I caught the ball. And you came and you

(11:42):
looked at him. You're like, do you realize what you
just did? I was like, damn, I messed up. Well,
I was supposed to catch it like this. He's like, nah,
do you realize how high you up? In the era?
I was like, I jumped his high as I needed
to catch the ball home. He's like, you just keep
doing that. You can't do it, You just keep doing that.
What was it about what you saw in me? Because
you took a liking to me. I'm not so sure

(12:04):
you had ever taken a liking to another player like
that before or since. What was it about me that
you saw in me that you was like, you know what,
this kid could be special?

Speaker 2 (12:12):
Well, I mean, I think you know you're having this
show and everything that you're always there engaging rights. You're
fun to be around and like the joke and have
a good time. Plus I think that you were a
guy that wanted to learn, You wanted to be a
great player, you wanted to make it. And I think
that you know, just your curiosity and you know the
questions that you asked to try to make yourself a

(12:34):
better player.

Speaker 1 (12:34):
I think this is what you know.

Speaker 2 (12:35):
And plus I you know when I saw that, and
plus your size and your speed and everything, and I
knew you could be special in this league.

Speaker 1 (12:42):
So I was on your side because I was going
to benefit the most.

Speaker 3 (12:46):
Yeah. Well, you look, at the end of the day,
Coach Reeves made Coach Reeves was smart enough to draft me,
but somehow he was forgot to cut me. But I
think you had a large part of that because, like
you said, and coach Reeves, you know, say, there's a
lot of people pulling for you. They put me on
special teams. I didn't never played no special teams before.
They was like, can you play special teams? I was like, yep,

(13:06):
never played special team before in my life. But they
put me on kickoff, kickoff return, punt return. I was
a gunner, the biggest gun in the history in the
history of the game. But it was just the fact
that I'm thinking to myself. I was like, man, this dude,
really he really wants me to succeed. And you know,
I was always so much more talent to everybody else,
so it was easy. You know, high school college was

(13:26):
really easy. But coming here and everybody was an All American,
everybody was listening to that. At bigger schools, I was like, man,
I can't let him down. And I just remember you
telling me he said, look, I don't care who's on you.
If you're one on one, I'm throwing you the football.
You better catch it. Like well, damn. I was like,
he has more confidence in me than I got it myself.
But do you remember when I remember Dad. They Greek

(13:48):
came and got me and said, Damn wanted to talk
to me. I was like, Damn, I'm gonna get cut.
I mean it started with this, Damn. I thought I
had made it, had made the team. And Dan told
me they're gonna move me to tight end. Would you
I was like, sure, I'd be willing. But at that time, John,
I had done to drop so much weight. I mean
I think I was about two ten trying to play
tight end. So we get in practice. I never told
this story in practice either. So they put me in motion.

(14:10):
I stopped, hold on what I gotta get a job.
He said, don't worry about it. Just we're gonna put
your in motion. I just want you to go one
hundred miles an hour. This is we're a mile high
five thousand, two hundred and eighty feet. If you've ever
been to Colorado, you understand the altitude. So imagine me
going in motion. So they put me in motion for

(14:33):
the entire of the game. And people didn't believe this
when I said this in my speech, because I had
never said it before. Is that they put me in
motion the entire game. And if you're calling out the signals,
as I run by, you tell me what i'd have
to run. But why why you just say, damn, he
doesn't learn. He doesn't know the plays right now. Until
he's able to get up to full speed, I don't
know if we can play it. Well, I knew you'd

(14:53):
get to play, you know.

Speaker 2 (14:55):
And plus that's how much I thought of you as
a player right now, especially with you to tied end,
you know. And really it was more of an age,
more of an h back, which you know, as a receiver.
But the thing is you could have to you know,
to me, it was even a better spot for you.
Obviously it turned out being a better spot for you.
But I wanted you to stay around, and I knew
how bad you wanted it, and so therefore, you know,
And I knew the play, you know, I knew everything.

(15:17):
I knew invention you would get it. You were you know,
still very raw, yes, and that it was just going
to take time. So a lot of times I did
it just to make sure you knew. I knew you
knew sometimes, you know, and if if it wasn't too loud,
we could do it at home a lot more than
we could go on the road. But I could tell
if you didn't know what you do, and that's what
I for sure told you. But you know, evention, I
you know, yeah, you knew everything that was going on,

(15:39):
and it was just a matter. And I think that
was as I say, I keep using the word raw,
you know, because of what you would.

Speaker 1 (15:46):
You hadn't learned.

Speaker 2 (15:46):
You just scratched the surf, right, right, And that experience
takes time, does right, and so you know that's all
you needed. And once you get that experience, you just
absolutely took off. You know, And I say this all
the time. They always ask me, they say who's your favorite, right, say, well,
number one is the open one, right, and number two
it's Shannon Sharp. And the reason why is we had

(16:07):
such great matchups. You always got great matchup. Yes, you
would swat off little d B and then the backers couldn't.

Speaker 3 (16:13):
The back ups run away from that, they couldn't run
with it.

Speaker 2 (16:14):
Right, And so that's why you were such a great
player in the Hall of Fame because of the matchups
that we got with you. And that's why for me
when it was nut cutting time and we had a
big play, we needed a third down.

Speaker 1 (16:25):
And I'm bringing up to the Pittsburgh game.

Speaker 2 (16:28):
Yeah that I always knew that I had if it
was man coverage, I had a great matchup with you,
and I just had your catch radious. Yes, it was
so big, right, So I if I got pressure whatnot,
If I got it in the area, chances are you're
gonna come down with it.

Speaker 3 (16:41):
Back to that play. Normally, we practiced the plays during
the week that we're going to run in the game,
and so we put this play in. If I'm not mistaken,
I think we got to set this Okay.

Speaker 2 (16:54):
So this is the AFC Championship given nineteen in nineteen
ninety seven. Yep, in ninety eight season because we're guts
or uh the ninety six season, six even ninety seven
super Bowl, right, Yeah, we just to go to Super
Bowl thirty two. Yeah, super Bowl thirty two. So we're
we're in three rivers. This is a year after we
got upset by Jackson jackvib the first round when we
had we were thirteen three at on the field and

(17:16):
we got upset. So now we got to go to Pittsburgh.
We just got we got out of Kansas City before
we pounded on Miami or Jacksonville when they came back
in that year, so we're in Pittsburgh and now it's
we went up like twenty one to three.

Speaker 3 (17:30):
Yeah, we did well, big, We've feeling good about ourselves.

Speaker 1 (17:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:33):
And so all of a sudden it's coming back and
now we're we're there's less maybe right, less than two
minutes ago.

Speaker 1 (17:38):
We're third and six, and we need this first out.
Could I believe if we don't.

Speaker 3 (17:43):
We don't get the first out, we're gonna lose this game.

Speaker 1 (17:45):
We're gonna lose.

Speaker 3 (17:45):
We don't lose. They had they had all the momentum.

Speaker 2 (17:47):
All the momentum, and I think it was twenty one
to twenty. I can't remember the score, but we this
was the play, were to make this player. We don't
time out. Go to the sideline, Gary and microve there
and say okay, Gary carries there and say what we're
gonna go three twenty four all hitch. I said, okay,
that's fine, Dad. It was a TV timeout. So I
get back to the hitle and I just said, tell

(18:09):
everybody what we're doing. We're going three twenty four all
hitch and I told everybody to get past get down
past the first four no mark, And it was you know.

Speaker 3 (18:16):
We were with sco Impy. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:19):
Yeah, So it was just go down past the mark
and I'm going to take the best look right and
try to get the first down. I say, it's three
twenty four all hits and all of a sudden, and
now we've run three twenty four all hitch the whole year.
I mean, it's like we ran it in training camp.
It's in our base installation every year that started back

(18:41):
in May. Starts going, well, it ain't in the game
plan plan, and I said it is, now, so go
down seven yards.

Speaker 3 (18:51):
He said go get open because I had memorized the
play because, like you say it, I didn't really know.
Like when I came in, I was so wrong. And
so I made him out the note every play that
was in the game plan, and I'm like, that's not
in the game plan. That's not one hundred and fifty plays.
How do I know one play that's not that's not
in the game play. It is now, now go get over.
If we get the hardest coverage, they go Cover five,

(19:13):
which is man two under. But the backer is up
is playing underneath, and I don't realize it until I
turn around. It's Greg Lloyd, Jason Gilden Jason Gilden Jason
Gilder all he had to do. If he does this,
the ball hits the back of his hand in history.
But he tried to swipe. Yeah, and by the time
he did this, the ball was already there. And I
spends away and I get the and I was like, Lord,

(19:36):
have mercy.

Speaker 1 (19:38):
Well Leah Cotton found her here.

Speaker 3 (19:40):
It came because I just remember in ninety one, John,
we had a situation against the Raiders where our style
and I dropped the ball in the south end zone
and a lineup tight. They motioned me out and they
walk the backer out and I'm like, one on one,
I got it, got it. If I catch this ball,
we're gonna have home field throughout the playoffs. I drop it.

(20:01):
We end up having to go to Buffalo. We end
up losing the Buffalo in the FC Chesship ten to seven.
And I just remember thinking that I was going home
and I was I was crying. I called my brother, said, man,
I just messed up. He said, what happened? I said,
I dropped the touchdown and I know it would have
given us home field throughout the playoffs. He said, don't
worry about it. You'll get another opportunity, and it took
six years basically for that opportunity to present itself. I said,

(20:24):
if I ever put get back in this situation, I
ain't letting this happen again. And man, that was I
don't think. I don't think. We sat down the plane
was taken off, we were still standing up. That's the
best part about charter fights because they don't really tell
you what to do. We kind of like do our
own thing. That was of all the super Bowls and
all the that's probably my greatest moment. There was nothing

(20:45):
like that. I mean, obviously the beating the package in
the Super Bowl. But what was your favorite play? Though?

Speaker 4 (20:50):
Me and you?

Speaker 3 (20:50):
What's your favorite play? Was it that you and I?

Speaker 1 (20:52):
Yeah, that's what I talk about all the time. But
we you know, we had some many we had it,
you know.

Speaker 2 (20:57):
And the thing is and this this thing is you know,
that's why I did this netflix you get this ain't
gone so I can remember different, right, But you know,
that's the one that always sticks out to me. And
plus plus that was so funny when you well.

Speaker 3 (21:09):
That ain't the game said it is now he realized
he's like I remember him asking me, like, why did
your boys do that when you get he said, are
you doing Are you doing that on purposes? Like, nah,
it's just like when I get excited, it goes like
three octaves. Because but I remember in the Netflix you
was like the David Brandon play in Seattle in the

(21:31):
old Kingdome. People don't realize if you never played it,
how loud that place. Yeah, that place get got loud.
It was only like what fifty five sixty thousand, but
they're like right there on top of you.

Speaker 1 (21:42):
And it was on some match.

Speaker 2 (21:43):
Yeah, so the noise bounced off everything. And so that
was by far the noisiest place of yet where that
we played.

Speaker 3 (21:49):
And we uh, this was this had to be ninety
This was ninety three. When you take the shotgun, snap
and he comes in unblocked. Now, I don't know of
all the things why you did, and because a lot
of times you would like to spin out, but this this,
for whatever reason, you just dunk up under. Yeah, and
flat footage throws the ball about sixty yards. Yeah, And
we had all scenes on and I got played black

(22:12):
and for a touchdown? Did you like you like, oh
he got there somewhere?

Speaker 1 (22:16):
Well no, I mean that was one of my you know,
and you're right, you know.

Speaker 2 (22:19):
And the thing is, there's so many things when when
you're playing, you know, And that's why I don't think
i'd have been a good coach, because there's a lot
of things that I can't explain.

Speaker 1 (22:26):
Why I did things right or why I reacted.

Speaker 2 (22:29):
You just react right, and so you know, in that situation,
it was probably because there was nowhere to go go
anywhere else and he was coming so hard. Yes, right,
so you know I was able to duck and then
you know, get the ball to you. But that was
you know, that's one of my favorite plays that I've
had too, as far as you know, in my career
that you know, I was able to put it on
the money to you and at least avoid that's act.

Speaker 3 (22:52):
I remember in meetings we used to sit next to
each other and it's cool that they're going through the
game plan. I would write on your like, Okay, this
week seemed like like two fifty two touchdowns. You give
me the thumbs up this Sometimes just to message, I'm like, yeah,
this seems like maybe one hundred and seventy five y'all
a touchdown? You like crossed that out? No, I'm thinking
like three hundred and three days. But when when? What

(23:15):
was it about our chemistry and I make up? Because
we did a lot of things in practice and I
was like, I was like, this seems a little long.
I mean, I don't know if I'm gonna have time,
and I want to and you was like, Okay, run
it like this in practice because I know you're going
to speed it up in the game. Because we had that,
we had that interaction what they would call because at
the end of the day then like, well, why'd you
do it like that? I say, because the guy that

(23:35):
has the ball, he was gonna throw me the ball.
He told me to run it like that. You didn't
have no ball, so I'm missing it to him.

Speaker 1 (23:42):
Yeah, but you know, you're right sayings Shannon.

Speaker 2 (23:44):
There was just a you know, we just had that, right,
we thought of like we talked a lot about it,
as you said, and I think and the thing is,
I had so much confidence in you, right, and so
that to me is what And I I just knew
that we're getting a good and I knew that if
I put it close, wasn't gonna get paid right, right,
because I was not always on target. You know that
it wasn't, but just the confidence that I had in

(24:06):
knew that, you know it was. I got another story
I'll bring up, and I can't remember what I think
it was. I've been there, laugh my last year in
ninety nine, and I remember we're playing here and I
get pressure or something like that, and I have to
throw the ball to the front side and you're on
the back side.

Speaker 1 (24:21):
And they didn't even cover you, right, and you're over there.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
He's waving and he's flowing his arms down and I'm
looking at him like we get to the sideline.

Speaker 1 (24:31):
I said, don't you ever do that to me again?

Speaker 2 (24:34):
I said, I couldn't see I was getting pressure, and said,
don't make me look, you know, don't don't like I
was supposed to be looking at you because the reads
on the other side you weren't even in the progression.

Speaker 3 (24:42):
I would not. So you want to play water back,
you can back. No, I can't think.

Speaker 1 (24:49):
So I was still mad at him. So the next
week in practice, I wouldn't throwing the ball that was
show I was showing yet, I mean I would, I would.

Speaker 3 (24:57):
I forgot it. You know what I forgot all about it?
That was that was absolutely right. I'm like, well, I
remember asking people. I was like, what am I doing?
I run all these routes. I'm supposed to be one
of the progression. He going two to three. I think
it's a bull time man.

Speaker 2 (25:12):
And so you get to Friday and he is now mad.
He's going to Brian Perry, on to the tight end coach,
and then Brian grass me. He goes, what would you
please throw the ball the shannon.

Speaker 1 (25:21):
I said, well, you make sure that he's not gonna
show me off in the middle in front of seventy
six thousand people. Again, he goes, okay, no he won't.
I promise you would. I said, okay, he's learned his lesson.

Speaker 3 (25:32):
Trash talk. Did you did you ever do any trash talk?
Or do I do it? Did enough?

Speaker 1 (25:36):
If you took care of you you were great at right,
so you you handled most of that. No, I didn't really.

Speaker 2 (25:42):
You know, I get some more small chippings of guys
at defensive lineman and da da da dah. But you know,
especially if you know later in the game and you
get mad or something like that, then you know small.
But I I never liked you know how many times guys? Yeah, Well,
I'm coming to get you, And I said, well, you
know where I'll be right.

Speaker 1 (25:58):
I'll be right here, right, you gotta get to these
five first, I'll be right here.

Speaker 3 (26:02):
But now that wasn't you know?

Speaker 2 (26:03):
There's enough going on, you know, with next play and
figuring out down in distance and all the different things
you have to do as a quarterback that I didn't
waste a lot of time with it.

Speaker 3 (26:12):
I love the fact I think we played Indy. We
played Indy here in ninety three and you threw a
pass and Steve Tman with the number one pick in
the draft, and he knocked it. He batted the ball down,
and he's going crazy. You're like, bro, you're the number
one pick in the draft. You're supposed to knock it down.
We come back to the very next flight and throw
a touchdown. He's like, I guess you did knock that
one down. I'm like, oh, my quarterback, you're talking a

(26:35):
little trash. Uh. The Super Bowls you went to five
started five? Which one was the toughest loss? Or were
they all the things?

Speaker 4 (26:46):
You know?

Speaker 2 (26:48):
The last you know, the last one against the Niners, right,
because that was a third one, right? And so they
got progressively worse and we played progressively worse, and you know,
and against the Giants, and the first one in eighty.

Speaker 1 (26:59):
Six, you know, we played a great first half.

Speaker 2 (27:02):
We just didn't we you know, and then we you know,
Rich Carlos made the longest field goal in Super Bowl history,
and then we missed one. We had first and goal
on the one right before half and came away with
no point. So I ended up going away going into
halftime ten nine. And so that one, you know, we
played really good the first half, and then the Giants
just kind of steamrolled that second half, you know, the
second half, and so that was disappointing, but it was

(27:24):
all right.

Speaker 1 (27:24):
It was the first one. They were good. They beat us.
And then the next year we go and we're actually
favorites against the Redskins.

Speaker 3 (27:30):
Get up to the great start. You think you started nothing.

Speaker 1 (27:32):
We're up ten. The first play of the game, we
throw bomber. Could we go up seven?

Speaker 4 (27:37):
Right?

Speaker 2 (27:37):
And then then there's a they had kicked off they
we kicked off whatnot? We got a funble, didn't get it,
and then it was like nineteen plays later we're down
thirty five to ten, right, So and then we had
a bad We were probably five hundred in eighty eight
and then eighty nine were playing the forty.

Speaker 1 (27:55):
Nine ers, and you know, they were like they were machines.

Speaker 2 (28:00):
And the funny thing is we were in practice in
tu lane and back then we just had the two
quarterbacks as Gary and I, and so we'd always we'd
split when we're taking the offense, I'd go for, Gary,
go too, and then when scout team, Gary go.

Speaker 1 (28:13):
For and I'd go to.

Speaker 2 (28:15):
So we're down and practicing that too lane down in
New Orleans, and you know, we're we're kind of tearing
them up and as a scout team, and we're throwing
these posts right because our reads, we're reading it like
we're supposed to and our reads there's no free safety,
and so you know, John Taylor and Jerry Rides are
running post either side, and so we're hitting these posts.

Speaker 1 (28:38):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (28:38):
And so Charlie, our defensive corderate, Charlie Wider, is gussing,
how only goes stop throwing the post. They don't sew
the post right, And I'm like, well, that's the West
Coast offense.

Speaker 1 (28:48):
I grew up with that in college.

Speaker 2 (28:50):
That's all we threw. And one of the first reads
was there's always a built in post. Absolutely, there's always
a built in post. And so's there's no free safety.
That's your first read.

Speaker 1 (29:00):
I was like, uh oh, the jump it. Yeah, we
stopped telling that, we stopped selling the posts and Jerry.

Speaker 3 (29:06):
Ends up scarting. He touched down on the posts.

Speaker 2 (29:09):
But you know, we were just out man there and
they were a much better football team than we were.
So that was the toughest one, just because now all
of a sudden, it's like here comes. Can't win the
big one, you know, dad? And so that was that
one lingered for a long time. Actually, you know, it
takes eight years to get back until how did that?

Speaker 3 (29:29):
How did that? How did that mess with you mentally?
Because in eighty seven you won the m v P
and you were one of you were the highest graded
player at that point in time to ever come out
of come out of college. Mailchrift was gray. You was
like the no, you were supposed to the goal, You're
supposed to win, like have for of these things by now, right,
And now all of a sudden you're suffering the most
lopsided Super Bowl losses. Then they're progressively getting worse and worse.

(29:52):
And I remember you told a story like, damn, I
don't even want to go back if we ain't got
no better chance to wear to what we got. So
so how was that? How was that dealing with you?
How was that mentally on you? You know it was
it was.

Speaker 2 (30:01):
The thing is you couldn't get away from it, Yes, right,
you couldn't get away from it, because that's all the
media wanted to talk about, right is the fact is
you know, your will your career be complete if you
don't win a suit create right, And so I lived
my whole life saying well, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:16):
I'd be proud of it, which is which is not true.

Speaker 2 (30:20):
I knew that, you know, for me to be considered
a great player, great quarterback, that we had to win
a super Bowl at some point in time. And so
you know that's the hardest thing was you couldn't, Like
I said, you couldn't. We couldn't escape it because it
got brought up every year, right, and each year when
we make the playoffs, it was the first round. It
was like a round you know that'd come back, and
it'd come back, and it'd come back, and so but

(30:42):
on top of that, it also added more incentive, right,
and and so it can't be working hard, and you know,
you were a great influence. I mean I thought I
worked hard in the weight room until I saw you room,
and you know, and I got pretty strong. I always
remember too, which I was the Great Unveiling.

Speaker 3 (31:03):
I see, we don't talk. I don't know about those
they don't.

Speaker 2 (31:05):
Know about it, about the Great Unveiling. Yeah, so we
made you know, we'd work out four times a week,
and Shannon was in there. We don't getting in there
both at the same time. And obviously he was working
with a different group.

Speaker 3 (31:14):
And I was.

Speaker 2 (31:15):
But he would always wear his big baggy shirts and long,
long sleeves, and so he's just sit there and he'd
work his tail off, and you know, it just get
like like the Hulk. And so at the end, at
the end of the off season program every year, uh,
it'd be we call it the Great Unveiling.

Speaker 1 (31:33):
And that's when Shannon would take his his shirt off.

Speaker 2 (31:36):
And go It's like show everything that he'd worked for
in the last four weeks. So that went on for
my last six years. It was always when's when's the
Great Unvailing.

Speaker 3 (31:46):
I wouldn't even shower with nobody, so they never they
never saw me as always I was always lonely, always covered,
and he was asked me, I even practiced like that
for you know, I always practice would long leave and
he's like, why do you do that? It's you know,
a bailey, you guys top sea. You can't see. You
can't see until you see and then you know, it's
like damn. He's like, what do you eat? Your dad like,
what do you eat? Do you eat anything? Because you know,

(32:08):
I brought my own food, uh uh and everything. I
was always diligent about what I ate. I didn't have
any sauces anything like that because I felt, you know,
the work I put in the off season, I wasn't
gonna ruin it once I got back in season. So
I stayed conscious of that.

Speaker 2 (32:23):
But that what but the yeah, yeah, the great all
but getting back to the fact that, you know, it
was just a matter added a little more fuel of
the fire, you know, and then you know, Dan got
fired and then Wade came in.

Speaker 1 (32:36):
There was kind of some excitement there. We won eight
and eight to two years.

Speaker 3 (32:39):
Now, we went to the We went to the playoff
in the first year.

Speaker 1 (32:41):
Yeah, well played the Raiders back to back right one.
We got to La home and then back to La.

Speaker 3 (32:45):
Yes, if we have won that game, they'd had to
come here. Correct, they beat us? And I remember that game.
We you, we were cooking them me and you were
cooking them. We got off to the great start, and
that's the game I needed. Uh. I think I needed
one hundred and twenty one yards to get a thousand,
and I was gonna get one hundred thousand dollars. That
was one hundred dollars. Was a lot of money back.
It still is, but it was really, really, really a

(33:07):
lot of money back there because considered that I was
only making like three hundred thousand, and I remember I
caught six for a buck, fifteen and two touchdowns and
then I looked at the stat sheet and I had
nine ninety five and I was like, god, dang. Because
on the plane we always sot across from each other,
so I was sitting on this side and the hour,
you sitting on that side. In the hour, and you're like, tee,
what what you know? Besides we lost the game? What happened?

(33:28):
I said, Man, if I got a thousand yards i'd had,
i'd have got one hundred thousand dollars. I only needed
five yards. And you looked at me, and you said,
don't ever let that happen again. I don't care. If
you need twenty five yards, you tell me, I'll get
you the ball, and then we go back out there
to following. You throw me thirteen for a buck fifty six.
I said, I needed thirteen for a buck fifty six

(33:48):
last week. But what what type of toll did that
take on at home? Did I take a toll on
home losing like that? Knowing? And I tell this is
what I tell people teach. I say, the harder you
work for something and when it doesn't come to fruition,
the more it hurts. Yeah, I said, if you work
for I don't care what it is. If you work
for something really hard and when it doesn't pan out,
it hurts like hell. Anybody tells you it doesn't they're

(34:09):
not working hard enough. It doesn't mean enough to it exactly.

Speaker 1 (34:12):
And I think that, yeah, I mean it does.

Speaker 2 (34:14):
You know, the disappointment and as you know, the older
you get, you know, you know, my dad always said,
don't ever let winning be a relief and losing be
a tragedy, right, yes, and that and the older you get,
that's kind of you know, that's when you know you're
kind of getting close to the end because now of
a sudden you really don't get the joy because football
is hard enough, yes, that if you don't enjoy the
victories no as much as you hate the losses, it

(34:36):
doesn't balance out. It's lobsite and makes it that much tougher.
But you know, I think that, and I had a
thought right there on what you had just said as hard, oh,
working hard. The thing that I learned there though, was
because I know going in those first three Super Bowls
that I tried harder each time, right right, And one
thing I learned is the bigger the game, the let

(34:59):
you you got to you gotta calm yourself down and
relax yourself to where you're saying, Okay, I'm gonna go
out and play the best game I've ever played.

Speaker 1 (35:06):
I gotta play great, I gotta do this, I gotta
do that, I.

Speaker 2 (35:08):
Gotta do this, which all that does is adding more
pressure to you, just like going into Super Bowl thirty two,
like all right, don't think about the outcome, forget about
the outcome. Take it one day at one play at
a time, don't think about it, and don't watch TV.
Stay out of all the hooplah, right, and just go
play a football game and don't think about it being
the Super Bowl anything else, to where you're not putting

(35:29):
that much more pressure on you. Because by the time
I got to San Francisco on that third one, I'm
sitting and going I'm gonna have to win this by myself, right,
which is the worst thing you can do, and all
I did and I played terrible, right, So going into
that Super Bowl thirty game was the fact that okay,
let's just go concentrate on one play. Don't think about,
don't even don't even think about it what it would

(35:50):
feel like to be world champions, right, right, don't even
don't let that enter your mind. Go out and play
a football game, and everything else will fall in line.
And so that was kind of the you know, jumping
ahead a little bit, but that's what my thought process.

Speaker 1 (36:03):
Was going into the Green Bay game. And you know,
I played better there and we were able to win
the football.

Speaker 3 (36:08):
But it got so bad after those losses that you
had to have they had policees behind it because you
started getting death there. I mean, they had police standing
behind you just to make sure ain't nobody get you
at the game.

Speaker 2 (36:19):
Well, I mean, it's like in the first Super Bowl
we lost, we had like five hundred thousand people at
the parade, and the last one we lost, there's like
twenty thousand people.

Speaker 3 (36:29):
But in the Green Bay, the one that we won,
did you think we could lose? Because I went to
maybe it was just naive take, but I didn't think
we could lose. I didn't think Green Baking beatles.

Speaker 1 (36:38):
I didn't either, especially with the game plan that we have. Yes,
and Mike and Gary did such a great job of
that game plan.

Speaker 2 (36:42):
If you remember we split you out the whole game, Yes,
to get Leroy Butler out of out of the box,
because Leroy Butler was playing strong safety, and he would
mess He never knew where he was gonna be. He'd
mess up the running game, he'd mess everything up. And
that's why I think Gary and Mike did such a
fantastic job put him outside. Plus they knew how good
they were were in the secondary, two great corners and

(37:03):
uh Robinson in pre safety, that they were that good
that you know, we're gonna have to run the football
right and by spreading everybody out, getting you out, getting
le Roy Butler out out of the ball, so he
couldn't screw things up, and then TD just you know,
went crazy for us, and and uh.

Speaker 3 (37:18):
I just often asked. I said, man, I wonder what
how many yards he would have had had he not
missed the entire second quarter? Yeah, because he had one
fifty seventy three quarters, right, he might have been he
might have broke Timmy Smith's record.

Speaker 1 (37:28):
No, no question, no question, because he was.

Speaker 2 (37:31):
And that's the thing is. And I remember too, green
Bay putting there. The next guy they put down was
a d lineman.

Speaker 3 (37:36):
Yes, right, And.

Speaker 2 (37:38):
So our guys up front, Nayland's threat Zimmerman, Habib and
Tony Jones.

Speaker 1 (37:44):
I mean, they just they absolutely warm them out.

Speaker 3 (37:47):
Did you get that that game? I don't think you got.

Speaker 1 (37:49):
I don't think so. I don't think so. We didn't
throw it. We threw it like twenty three twenty four times, right,
but no, they just warm out.

Speaker 3 (37:56):
I remember Gilbert Brown grip on one. D oh, he
go the sideline, look at it. I know.

Speaker 1 (38:03):
I remember in that game too.

Speaker 2 (38:04):
Remember late in the game, it's like we're going in
the score, last touchdown, yes, and green Band called time
out and I went to the sideline and.

Speaker 1 (38:11):
I said, because we're on the one yard line.

Speaker 2 (38:14):
So and they had a couple of time time out,
slept and so I went and I said, I said, Mike,
let me let me nose dive, let me sneak it
to the half yard line. Make them use another time
out because they're not going to stop us right right.
And then I don't think that we gotta score the points.

Speaker 3 (38:30):
But you know, and then that's when the one they
just they talked about, well we let him score it,
y'all hadn't stopped the ball day.

Speaker 1 (38:35):
They didn't let us score. They want they wanted the ball.

Speaker 3 (38:38):
They wanted the ball because they just opened like like,
well damn, we did a great job on that. And
you see Eugenie Robinson he comes down, he basically two hands,
touches like okay, they get the ball back. And then
I remember, uh, Greg Robinson, rest your soul. He's like, Mike,
what do you how do you want to call it?
And Mike was telling him, like, just just do what
you're always doing. Greg. What the pressure guy? Greg loved

(39:00):
the brain pressure. And I remember the last call and
he's on the sideline bomb blow it up, fourth and ten,
blow it up.

Speaker 1 (39:09):
And that's what because we don't Steve that water.

Speaker 3 (39:12):
Steve Well, Steve knocked Thatt like he knocked out there
guys in. One of my guys at that point ran
to hear you and Robert Brooks and himself. Yeah, Crockett
tail pulled his hamstring. So he's out right. So we're
down three DB's in the secondary right, And so I
was like, oh lord. And then when I saw Greg
on the sideline, tell him blow it up. I said, oh, man, yeah, yeah,

(39:34):
and they and uh, I was like, man, it seemed
like it's slow motion. It was just I'd be like,
I'm looking, Okay, he's back, he throws the ball. I'm
tracking the ball, and I was like, momy picked he
but he been dropping them all all year, so I'm
not surprising on the why. I thought you'd gonna catch it.
And then I realized it's like and we just rrupt
and we're standing next to each other and it's like

(39:55):
were running onto the field. Man. That is the greatest feeling.

Speaker 4 (39:58):
That was.

Speaker 3 (39:59):
That is the great.

Speaker 2 (40:01):
The greatest win I ever had, by far the fact
that they raised some of those other things, but it
was just yeah, I can still remember the feeling, and
it's just.

Speaker 3 (40:10):
And the second was hard.

Speaker 1 (40:11):
It was hard to believe.

Speaker 3 (40:12):
Yes, it take us.

Speaker 2 (40:13):
It probably took me three days or a week to
really figure out that we're world champions.

Speaker 3 (40:17):
Yes, it was. And then we get back to that
parade and we see a million fans out there. It's like, yeah,
it was unbelievable.

Speaker 1 (40:23):
Special time.

Speaker 3 (40:24):
But you know, the year before, like you said, we're
thirteen and three. I mean we're cruising, We're crushing everybody.
I mean the game the last game you didn't play.
I didn't play, TV didn't play. We played the Chargers.
We had everything sewn up, and Mike like, hey, we
shu gonna take this time, don't even worry about it,
blah blah blah. And then we get jagged. They had
just been a team, they just came into the league
in ninety five. Oh yeah, we got these bums. Yeah,

(40:46):
and we got out to it. I remember we got
out to a twelve nothing league. We go for two.
You split our split out wide left, we throw the
slant and I don't open up far enough and I
was like, damn, so it's twelve nothing instead of fourteen nothing.
And then the next three quarters it was like a dream.
It was like a nightmare. Yeah, I mean everything, we

(41:08):
got a shallow we got the perfect play call on
the shallow cross. I mean the guy gets picked, you
throw it and in the process of me pulling in in,
I punch it out on my knee. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:18):
It was one of those days, right, I mean you
have those days and Brunelle and the Jags will they
played really well.

Speaker 1 (41:24):
Brenelle threw the ball really well and put it on target.
So that, though, I think was what led to the
next two years.

Speaker 2 (41:30):
Yes, that incentive of knowing how bad that one hurt,
you know, because I'm looking at it too.

Speaker 1 (41:34):
It's like those Super Bowls were bad. That one was
just as bad too, Yes, because I'm in my I
was in my fourteenth year that year.

Speaker 4 (41:41):
Yeh.

Speaker 1 (41:41):
And I mean that that that windows is really close.

Speaker 2 (41:44):
Yes, So you know that was as big as you know,
toughest losses, you know, and I had had counting the
Super Bowls and so what do you think it? You know,
it's set up the next two years for us, incentive wise,
you know, and us thinking about how good we were
and start concentrating, like you just said, we got these bombs, right,
That's when it turned it around and we just started
concentrating on how well we were going to play, concentrate

(42:05):
on our standards, what we had to play and how
we had to play, and and you know, so that's
you know, I still believe that you got to have
those tough ones that they say, you don't forget that
hurt that bad, you don't forget them, and it led
us to those next team. What do you think we
did wrong the Jacksonville game?

Speaker 1 (42:23):
You know, I don't. I think you just have those days.

Speaker 2 (42:26):
And you know, it's been a while since I've seen
the film on the game. I want to see, yeah,
you know, but you know, I think it's just one
of those things. And that's why you got to be ready.
Especially in the NFL. Anybody can beat anybody on a
given day.

Speaker 3 (42:36):
I think that's what a matter.

Speaker 1 (42:37):
If you're home field, you get comfortable to be in home.

Speaker 2 (42:39):
Field, and you know, so you know, and we had
we had taken a week off, right, like you said,
you know, and I think, you know, you take that
week off, your mind relaxes a little bit, and when
you know, when you're in the season, it's like by
weeks when you're in the season, you can't I could
never get away. I never want to go on a vacation,
right because I knew if you unload it all, it's
twice as hard to get it back, and it take

(43:00):
shit a couple of weeks to get back. And so
I think that, you know, we might unload a little bit.
There weren't quite as sharp as we needed to be,
and you know, and they played well, they played, They
played really you know, you know, it was kind of
like last week with Broncos.

Speaker 3 (43:11):
And I mean you look at the numbers. Jackson Bale
just played unbelievable.

Speaker 1 (43:14):
They played really good.

Speaker 3 (43:15):
They sacked them five times Bowt Nicks. I mean the
number might be a little distorted, but Jacksonville played extremely
well offensively every time, you know, we come with the
blitz and then they throw the swing out to the
back to eight and at the backside and they're running
down the field.

Speaker 1 (43:31):
You know, we missed a couple of.

Speaker 2 (43:32):
Tas hitches, which those you know, it's funny, and we
talked about this before. You look at an NFL game,
there's five.

Speaker 1 (43:39):
Plays to make a difference.

Speaker 2 (43:40):
Yep, right, absolutely, there's five plays that make a difference
because everybody is so close and you can always look
at those you don't know if that plays one place
that first quarter, second quarter, but there's five plays that
made a difference, and those five plays last week with
the Roncos and the Jags, the Jags made those five
plays and that's.

Speaker 1 (43:55):
Why they ended up winning the football.

Speaker 3 (43:56):
Gim you win that Super Bowl in thirty two, the
adulation I, I don't know if i've and I had
I had at that point in time. I had been
around you as a player, well at Water had, but
me and at Water had been around you the longest,
and I don't know if I've ever seen you that happy, like, Okay,
finally I got that monkey off our back and then
there was a decision Okay, you're coming back and the

(44:16):
process of coming back. Did you know at that season
sixteen that that was going to be your last year?

Speaker 2 (44:23):
I had a pretty good idea, you know, and I
think that you know, at ninety five, people were more
more people talked about me coming back than me really
thinking I wasn't coming back, right, I was playing on
coming back.

Speaker 1 (44:33):
I'm still healthy, had a good year that year and
you know, didn't get banged up.

Speaker 2 (44:37):
The thing about in ninety eight was, you know, I
fell on the ball and Cincinnati down on the one
yard lane. That jumped on top of me and popped
at rib curtilage, you know, And so I came out
the next week. I tried to play the next week
against the Chargers. Bubby started the game. I was in
there getting shot up, trying to figure out if I could.

Speaker 1 (45:00):
I never forget.

Speaker 2 (45:00):
So then I come back into the second series, it's
third and seven, and we bust. We busted like a
scheme blocking scheme. Junior say oh because untouched hits me
right here, and I'm just like, you know, And then
I pulled the hamstring. Against Dallas, I got a couple
of games, threw three games there, and so it was

(45:21):
just I knew the body was breaking down a little bit.
So after the ninety eight season, I canon knew, and
especially the way it finished. And then it was almost
like even I was like, this is too weird that
we're playing Dan in a super Bowl right right? That
how this comes full circle? And everything that came about
is that, you know, is God telling me something?

Speaker 1 (45:41):
Right?

Speaker 2 (45:41):
Number one and number two is my greatest fear was
I do want to play and never wanted to play
a super Bowl in the rain, right, yep, never wanted
to play in the rain. And so that whole week
I'm in my room watching the weather channel. I watched
the Weather Channel the whole week.

Speaker 3 (45:56):
It was fifty to fifty yep.

Speaker 2 (45:58):
And so you know, we get we win the game
and do the selling. The trophy comes, and get the
trophy and it isn't ten minutes later we.

Speaker 3 (46:05):
Get in the locker room and it opens.

Speaker 1 (46:07):
It just opens up.

Speaker 2 (46:08):
I'm like, guys, telling me something, God tell me something.
But I you know, it was just you know, for
me to have to have sets of fond memories and
you know in the MVP. Yeah, and if I hadn't
I don't think if my body had reacted better the
year before where it wasn't hurt all the time I
missed the four games that.

Speaker 1 (46:27):
I missed that, you know, I would have probably come back.
But I was like, yeah, I don't want to. I
didn't want to go out. I want to go out
on top. I didn't want to go down this way. Yeah,
you know, so it was it was the right time.

Speaker 3 (46:39):
And remember ninety seven, we're in Mexico City and you
tell your bicyl, Yeah, And I remember coming over there
looking at it, like John Thorpe. It started like John
towards bicycle towards by. I was like, damn, were gonna
miss some time. And I remember going over there looking
and I was like, you voted your arm up. I
was like, that's the first time you ever had definition
of your bust. You look at it like, yeah, I

(47:01):
told my box you crack it joke. So that like,
but I guess, I guess you didn't tear it all
the way off the bone, because there's like you didn't
miss any time.

Speaker 2 (47:10):
Well, I tore the I tore the outside outside. Okay, right,
the inside you tear the inside is the one, and
now I tore the outside one. And people never knew,
and I had i'd had a couple of years, i'd
have some tenan itis, right, you know, so it's hard
to get loose, and it was sore because of all
the throws and and so I tore the outside and
so that's when I rolled up and bundled up, and
I was like, you know, that was the first week,

(47:31):
first preseason game that we was down there.

Speaker 1 (47:33):
So they said they really didn't know. Greek really didn't know.
The doctors didn't know because they'd never really seen it
with a thrower, right.

Speaker 3 (47:40):
With a football. I guess that's a baseball injury or something.

Speaker 1 (47:43):
Right, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:43):
Yeah, And so they said, well we're going to wait
seven ten days, and so you know, got treatment on
it for the the next ten days.

Speaker 1 (47:50):
And when I came back out, I was.

Speaker 2 (47:52):
Like, I was like, you like, he just wanted days
on it. You want to day that was But it
was like tanned nightis was gone. Everything was gone, and
so you know, I just I just had a bigger bicyle.

Speaker 3 (48:06):
And you do you think if you had come back,
if Mike had done a great job, had come back,
do you think we could have repeeted? You think we
could have made it back to the playoffs and then
rolled the Knights that didn't interest you?

Speaker 4 (48:17):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (48:18):
That did.

Speaker 2 (48:18):
I wasn't sure we could do that. I had looked
at the schedule, yeah, you know, and so I mean
I think that, yeah, we probably had a good enough
football team that we could have and the mindset was
good enough, yes, and so yeah, I think we could have.
But it was, like I said, I get back to
the on the personal side and the physical side, whether
you know, build to hold.

Speaker 3 (48:40):
Up, what went into the decision. You make the decision
you're like, God has showed me something. I'm coming full circle.
My first NFL coach, I played him in the Super Bowl.
I hated playing in the rain and definitely didn't want
to play a super Bowl in the rain. And ten
minutes after I get this trophy, we get off that stadium,
the heavens open up. And so now you got to

(49:00):
make a decision. How long did it take you to
come to that decision that you know what this is?

Speaker 1 (49:05):
You know what, I want to really take my time, right.

Speaker 2 (49:08):
I wanted to take the time because I didn't want
to say, Okay, you know, you got to get away
from the game.

Speaker 1 (49:13):
You got to get away.

Speaker 3 (49:14):
You know.

Speaker 2 (49:14):
Obviously we're at a high win in the super Bowl,
and and so to me, I had to get away
from it to be able to make a sound decision
on what was right wrong. I wanted to see how
because I felt great at the time winning Super Bowl,
I want to see how I felt about the same
things I was thinking three four months later.

Speaker 3 (49:31):
So I, you know, so.

Speaker 2 (49:33):
I just took the time, you know, and I you know,
I think Shannon, the other thing is it was getting
tougher to playing cold weather.

Speaker 3 (49:39):
Yes, and yet you know, that's what I tell people about.

Speaker 2 (49:42):
It's getting playing into cold weather. And then all the
other stuff, right, the media stuff and all that kind
of stuff. I've been doing it for so long. It's
like do you want to come you know? And I
despise it that. I was like, you know what, you
really want to come back and do that, you know,
and you know you can spend more time with the kids.
So all those things were factors to where I said.

(50:03):
And plus you know, to be able to write off
on the sunset think back. You know, your last game
was you know, Super Bowl and two super Bowl that's
two years, have great memories, and you know, to where
I didn't want to. I didn't want to clunker thrown
in there at the end if I couldn't you know,
physically I could handle anymore.

Speaker 1 (50:22):
So that's why I think it was.

Speaker 3 (50:24):
It was the best decision, right. I remember, uh, you
know John's going to retire hereing that, but you postponed
it because you're supposed to do it and Columbine happened,
so you had to postpone it a month. Yeah, and
then you know we came out there and you know,
I remember, like.

Speaker 2 (50:40):
I know, you know, and I didn't want to. I
didn't want to retire. I want this thing to be
twenty seven. Yeah, because it was so much fun. But yeah,
it was just a you know, and there's you know,
when I talked to my dad a lot, he was
always a good sounding board, right and you know because
I because you know, as player, Shannon, we're the last
ones to know that we're not as good as as

(51:01):
a right, we always think that this is what our
confidence is what made us made us what we are
right now at the talent too.

Speaker 1 (51:07):
But the confidence of what we had is really what
made us what we were and the players that we were.

Speaker 2 (51:14):
And so that's why I always wanted to bounce it
off my dad to say, okay, am I am I
seeing the same things, you know, because I asked him
after ninety seven, I said the same thing.

Speaker 1 (51:22):
He goes, John, you have lots of step that you
can still play boom boom boom, you know.

Speaker 2 (51:27):
And plus the offense was so friendly with Terrell and I,
I mean, the offense and playing for Mike was great.
So you know that's what made us so tough. But
I was, you know, ninety eight it was more physical
than anything. Whether I could take the whole year, and
I mean I couldn't now oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (51:42):
But I think you know what the biggest thing is, John,
as we get older, and this is and I never
talked to you about this, is that we just can't
do it with the regularity we once could when were younger. Yeah,
I could put together one hundred yards one hundred yards.
I remember, you know, we played we played the charges. Here,
I go thirteen for one to fifty three, three touchdowns,
play of the week, come back against Baltimore nine for

(52:03):
one sixty one, and then another one hundred. I could
do that. As I got older, one hundred, then you
get a forty, you get thirty, you get twenty five.
The consistency level is you can't do it with the consistency.
And you like, damn, I'm still in my mind, I'm
I still see the same thing. I'm still yoked up. Yeah,
you just can't do it. Yeah. Yeah, And you're you're

(52:24):
you're the left I remember watching myself.

Speaker 2 (52:25):
Right, you're the first one to know you would have
never got to where that was anyway, right, because you
didn't have a confidence level and believe that you can
still play right, because that's what you know.

Speaker 3 (52:32):
That drove us and then I remember watching myself at
practice one time it was cold and we was I
was like, damn that guy moving slow. That's me. Oh no, yeah, yeah,
you're time. It's time to go. It's time to go
to the house. I show hope something else opens up.
But you see Tom played till he forty three. Philip

(52:53):
rivers after five years.

Speaker 2 (52:54):
Yeah, yeah, that was pretty amazing. I watched him play
last night. I didn't say the first one. I watched
it last night.

Speaker 3 (53:00):
He's pretty good. He really good, you know. So he's
never been a mobile guy. He's never going to be mobile.
So if he was a mobile in his twenties, what
makes you think he's not going to be mobile.

Speaker 2 (53:08):
And that's why I think he was able to come
back because he never used mobility as that was never
his you know, it'd been tougher for a guy that
used his mobility to come back after five years, because
you're not gonna be able to move like he could.

Speaker 1 (53:16):
But Philip was a.

Speaker 2 (53:17):
Pocket guy, as was Tom. Yes, so I think that's
what extended their career too. It was the fact that
they were never the mobile guys and so they just
had to stay in the pick and get protected. And
they still could throw the ball and and so you know,
plus the rules are so different.

Speaker 3 (53:30):
They're different. You can't take the quarterback, no, all that.
You can't drop your weight on the quarterback. They lived
to drop their weight on.

Speaker 2 (53:36):
That used to be the worst because everybody asked me.
They always say, okay, John, who hate you the hardest? Right,
I'm like the ground.

Speaker 1 (53:42):
When they land on me and I hit the ground, that's.

Speaker 2 (53:45):
What hurt the most, exactly, And right, so they take
you know, they take that one out, which you don't
protect the quarterbacks trying to keep him up, right, is
you know, good for the game. It's just it's just
changed from when we played there.

Speaker 3 (53:55):
I mean back in the day, there was nothing off limits.
They could hit you anyway.

Speaker 1 (53:59):
Try to get us out of the game.

Speaker 3 (54:00):
Yes, right, that was the whole thing, and not the
quarterback because that was and I gave you.

Speaker 2 (54:02):
An advantage, gave you a team, your team and advantage
of the their starring quarterback was out.

Speaker 1 (54:07):
Yes, if we can get him out, we got a
better chance to win.

Speaker 3 (54:11):
You're the exact John Elway, the same abilities. You're a
mobile as you are. You had the arm streen you
played in the eighties and nineties. Let's just say you
came in and the two thousand or the twenty teens,
could you have played more than sixteenth?

Speaker 1 (54:26):
I think so.

Speaker 2 (54:27):
I think so with the rules the way they are now,
rules now, yeah, I think so. You know, but you know, again,
in the right situation, now, I'd love to play for Mike.

Speaker 3 (54:35):
Right, yeah, I think that offense. Do you see Kyle,
what Kyle is doing.

Speaker 2 (54:38):
With PRT I think he's Kyle is the best offensive
coordinating the league now too, right, I mean what he
does and you know been that offense is so quarterback
apparently because everything is built off the running game, is
making so much ease and then play actions. You stand
back there with you know, you got five year ard.
You can see the whole field and all that. So
you know, it would have depended on you know, this

(54:59):
right situation. Yeah, the situation in the offense.

Speaker 3 (55:02):
But but you look at all these guys. Now you
look at Kyle, you look at Sean McVay, you look
at Andy Reid, all those those West Coast product came
out of that West Coast prodigy. You look at their quarterbacks. Yeah, yeah,
they're lighting it up. Yeah, what rule do you wish
that in the eighties and nineties when you were there
that they have now for the quarterback was instituted back

(55:22):
then that.

Speaker 1 (55:23):
You can't hit them low.

Speaker 2 (55:25):
You can't hit the quarterback low, right, because now because
when you're a quarterback and you're in the pocket and
now of a sudden you're throwing you know, I'm throwing
you on a on a post round right, all my
weights on that front foot yep, right, And so that's that's.

Speaker 1 (55:36):
The most vulnerable. Your left legs the most vulnerable.

Speaker 2 (55:38):
And so when those guys falling off you know, and
they're falling off blocks a lot of times they are
hitting you low.

Speaker 1 (55:43):
You know, you're worried about that.

Speaker 2 (55:44):
So it makes you, you know, you're more conscious of
your legs, and it makes you not as accurate as
you should get because you're you know, now you want
to get the weight off that leg so it's not
stuck in the ground when they hit it in three
hundred pounds and then you know kres and knee and
so to me, if they took that the below the
hit rate and blow the wigs on quarterbacks, to me,
it would have been.

Speaker 3 (56:04):
Like because they didn't change the rule that's the Brady rule,
because Brady went Brady in two thousand and eight when
he got hit. Because if you remember, in ninety nine,
the exact same thing happened to Trick Green. Rod de
Harrison hit Trick Green and put him out. That's how
kurtent Water got his start. They end up winning the
Super Bowl. But it wasn't until Brady, when I think
Bernie Poler did it hit him in his knee, and

(56:26):
they changed the next year they changed it. Yeah, and
now you got all these rules defensive receivers, the incidental contact.
If you weren't looking at me and I was on
the backside, they're not throwing a flag because they would
tell you what, he's not looking at you. You know why,
because he holded me. He can see they holding me.
That's why he's not looking right. But now they just
have these rules. Now. I just I look in amazement. John.

(56:46):
I was like, how these guys just be running scot ass.

Speaker 1 (56:48):
Free, right, you know? And the thing is, it's like,
you know. The other thing too is what I you know,
and they've done a good job, whether you know you
always look.

Speaker 4 (56:56):
You know.

Speaker 2 (56:56):
I can't stand that the quarter quarterback gets hitting the head,
he looks with it with a hand.

Speaker 1 (57:00):
Yeah, it's a penalty. I'm like, why does he have
a helmet on?

Speaker 2 (57:04):
Right? I mean, I'm still a quarterback, but I still
you know, because I remember when I was coming in
the league, Jack Lambert said we need to put skirts
on quarterbacks.

Speaker 1 (57:13):
Yes, you remember they said the early eighties, Yes, put
a skirt on. I'm like, I'm one of them these guys.
I get hit all the time too, not as much
as they get hit, right.

Speaker 2 (57:22):
So I always wanted quarterbacks to have the you know, toughness,
a little bit of the toughness in those safe things,
and you know that just they take it to another
level with the way it is now.

Speaker 1 (57:31):
But you know, and it changes the game.

Speaker 3 (57:34):
It does.

Speaker 2 (57:34):
It changes games and people don't realize a fifteen yarder
if a guy goes up to block a pass, comes
down and glances a quarterback's helmet. I and I don't
remember any quarterbacks getting going to the tent after they've
got hit with a hand.

Speaker 1 (57:47):
No for concussion, for concussion.

Speaker 3 (57:49):
Back, it ain't no, no, it was no. Well, I
don't even know if they used the term concussion. They
just say you got your bail, run or you got
Dean and so you know, oh yeah, I was just
watching something. Pat McAnally pat mcinally got knocked. He was
the punter and a receiver for the Bengals. He ended
up getting knocked out of the game. He lay motionless
for ten minutes, they carded him off and he ends

(58:10):
up coming in and catch a game. When he touchdown,
there is no way they would allow that. I said,
I've never seen this day ladies happen before. By life.
This concludes the first half of my conversation. Part two
is also posted and you can access it to whichever
podcast platform you just listened to part one on. Just

(58:30):
simply go back to the club Shashay profile and I'll
see you there.