Kirk Franklin Part 1

Kirk Franklin, a 19-time Grammy Award winner stops by Club Shay Shay for an unforgettable conversation with Shannon Sharpe. They dive into his illustrious career by discussing his hit songs, Grammy victories, and his prolific songwriting for various artists.  Franklin talks about his current work with Michael Jackson's vocals and the life advice he gave Steve Harvey. The episode serves as a captivating journey through the insights of Franklin's musical odyssey, providing an intimate portrait of a man whose influence extends far beyond the Grammy stage.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
You ain't been at black church and a wife.

Speaker 2 (00:01):
Yeah, but that don't don't don't they don't know to
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Speaker 3 (00:04):
You need to start coming on back to back.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
No, I bet I go back on my I ain't going.

Speaker 4 (00:14):
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Speaker 1 (00:22):
I've been grinding all my life, all my life, grinding all.

Speaker 4 (00:26):
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Speaker 5 (02:02):
Hello, Welcome to another edition of Club Shayshay. I am
your host, Shannon Sharp. I'm also the proprietor of Club Shasha.
The guy that's stopping by for conversation today is a
multi platinum selling artist, A gifted songwriter, choir master, extraordinary producer, director,
superstar music genius. He was the first gospel artist to
sell over a million coffies on his first album, first
person to spend one hundred weeks at number one on

(02:24):
the Billboards Songwriting Chart. A nineteen time Grammy Award winning artist,
inaugural inductee of the Black Music and Entertainment Walk of Fame,
television and film executive producer, host, motivational speaker, New York
Times bestselling author, thirty years in the industry, A father,
a husband, a philanthropist, trailblazer, icon legend, phenomenon, the king

(02:45):
of urban gospel.

Speaker 2 (02:47):
Kirk Franklin.

Speaker 1 (02:49):
Lies leave lies?

Speaker 2 (02:51):
Should I leave anything?

Speaker 1 (02:52):
Out? Lies or all lies? Or all lies?

Speaker 3 (02:53):
I thought I came here for something real. I already
see what we're going to. Let's go ahead and start now.
Next question, you are the real star. Next ques the
real stuff. I didn't know I was gonna come here
because I've been watching your show. Yeah, I'm such a fan. Yeah,
I love what you do. Yeah, and you're gonna bring God.

Speaker 1 (03:09):
Notes.

Speaker 5 (03:10):
Yeah, But I gotta get But see, I got I
got to I gotta let my audience know who I'm
bringing to the stage.

Speaker 3 (03:15):
But I don't care about them Channing, and I care
about you. I come here for you.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
Okay, Okay, we go.

Speaker 5 (03:19):
We're gonna get to some good stuff. We go, but
I gotta get the real I gotta get, I gotta get.
I gotta build up. I gotta build this up.

Speaker 3 (03:25):
Finish, finish, go ahead, whatever you gotta do, please continue,
please no no, no, no no no no.

Speaker 1 (03:33):
We're good. We're good. We're good. We good, bro, We're good.

Speaker 5 (03:36):
Can thank you, thank you. We're gracing because this is
the first time we've had someone. What I try to
do at Club shaw Ship, what we try to do
as a team, is that we try to bring celebrities, entertainers, musicians,
all different walks that has a very interesting story, and
we're gonna get to your story because I believe you
have a very very unique and very interesting story and
so hopefully you can share some stories that you've never

(03:59):
told before. But let's things for the very first time
and let audience get an opportunity to seek.

Speaker 3 (04:04):
As long as you try to make it all churchy,
you're all stiffy. As long as you just keep it
real swagging like you did everybody else, don't be coming
in here. I don't want to communion crackers.

Speaker 1 (04:16):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (04:16):
I don't want none of that, you know, just you know,
keep it real. You already brought me some water because
I know as I see you got your shay shape, George,
you know.

Speaker 2 (04:25):
Water right quick?

Speaker 3 (04:26):
Well, if that's what you want to do, that's what
ladies and gentlemen. Do you see it right now? That
I'm getting water poured by one of the greatest athletes
and uh commentators of my time. Isn't this a beautiful thing?
This is such a blessing, such a blessing. But the
you know, Jesus turned the water into.

Speaker 5 (04:44):
Wine, so don't well maybe you can tell maybe you
turned the car, Kurt. I would thank you, brother, I
know your busin man, Thank you talking about it. Thank
you King, Thank you.

Speaker 2 (04:59):
I want to. I want to.

Speaker 5 (05:00):
I want to start with your career and then I'm
gonna work my way backwards, which is something very unique
because I think you're a very unique individual and I
want to put a different.

Speaker 2 (05:08):
Spin on this.

Speaker 1 (05:08):
And this is very nice too.

Speaker 2 (05:10):
Thank you.

Speaker 5 (05:10):
I appreciate that. You know, it's until we get our
own established, which is working. Let it show take this out. Okay,
you were nominated. You've been nominated thirty one time for
the Grammy. You won nineteen. The first time you won
the Grammy? What did it mean and what the subsequent
Grammys mean? First grandmar I won. I was at home,

(05:31):
at home.

Speaker 2 (05:31):
You didn't go to the Warshione.

Speaker 1 (05:32):
First time I want.

Speaker 3 (05:33):
I was at home in the bed, you know, And
it was back in nineteen ninety six.

Speaker 1 (05:38):
What happened was.

Speaker 3 (05:40):
And you know, and I really hope that you can
even deconstruct it even more as we goin to chop
it up, because I'm an open book. I'm over we
can talk about anything. Is that, you know coming up?
Sometimes in church, you can be in communities, they can
be so over religious that it's almost like there's a
fall humility that people force upon you. That you don't

(06:03):
want to seem excited. Is because you don't want to
seem like your two worlds right, And there was like
how old are you? I'm fifty five?

Speaker 1 (06:11):
Fifty five? Okay, so so so what name? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,
I'm fifty three.

Speaker 3 (06:16):
So you know there's this time where anything that looked
like it was in church was the devil.

Speaker 1 (06:22):
You remember that back in.

Speaker 2 (06:23):
The day I do.

Speaker 1 (06:24):
It drives you crazy.

Speaker 3 (06:26):
Now, So a lot of times I would I would
acquiesce to other people's view of don't get caught up.

Speaker 1 (06:34):
You know, that's the world.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
You would accuate to what they thought you should be.

Speaker 1 (06:38):
Yes, And I stayed at home my first Grammar World.

Speaker 3 (06:40):
I stayed at home in bed because I didn't want
to go and look like I was getting caught up in.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
The world stuff. Right, That's why I didn't go. That's
why I didn't go.

Speaker 3 (06:50):
And there were other artists that I were around that well,
I was around that they had the same type of
ideology and so, and they were older than me because
I was so young, because when I came into the game,
I was the young pub and I wanted to show
them that, hey, guys, I want to be like y'all
and I don't want to get caught up in the
world either. So y'all downplay this stuff. Well, I'm a
downplayer too. And it was you know, it was it

(07:12):
was it was. It was the growing pains. And so
that's where I was my first Grammy ward. I was
at the hell. I wasn't sick, right, I could have gone.
I was at home in bed.

Speaker 5 (07:24):
You mentioned that you stay, you downplayed it because you
accuate as to what the world thought a gospel musician,
urban gospel musician should be, how they should present themselves.

Speaker 2 (07:36):
Where did that come from?

Speaker 1 (07:38):
It is? It is.

Speaker 3 (07:39):
It is an ideology from a coach and a generation
of biblical illiteracy. So a lot of times when it
comes to our people, especially when you talk about something
that's colonized as American Christianity, right, sometimes it can be
ideals that people want to make spiritual Like we take

(08:00):
our personal belief systems and we super spiritualize them and
try to put them in the cannon of scripture and
try to make them be a little centric, and they're not.
These are our ideals that these these are our feelings
and our opinions that we force upon people and want
to make them of God.

Speaker 1 (08:14):
We want to make our ideas what.

Speaker 3 (08:16):
God would say, and and that is that.

Speaker 1 (08:19):
So that's such far from the case.

Speaker 3 (08:21):
So it can be a cultural type of space that's
sometimes black and brown people, and you even see it
even in Catholicism, even with a lot of our Hispanic
brothers and sisters. So you know, there there are these
things that we force upon people that it's part of
fabrics that have nothing to do with our favor, nothing
to do with our relationship with God.

Speaker 1 (08:39):
They have to do with well, this is how I feel.

Speaker 3 (08:42):
And when you don't submit to what I think you
should do, then you're not being moved and being used
by this.

Speaker 5 (08:47):
Okay, but what I tell people, feelings aren't facts exactly.
Because you feel a certain way, that doesn't make it true,
that doesn't make it the gospel. So how so when
did you realize, like, hold on, I've been myself, I'm
trying to appease a certain group when that's not how
I feel, that's not how I think. So when did

(09:07):
you says, you know what I'm going I'm gonna be
k from.

Speaker 3 (09:11):
When I started to see that nothing I was doing
was working, that nothing I did was pleasing anybody, you know,
because then after right after that, the next year, Stone
came out and I got crucified for stomp and I
got beat up, So, you know, I just started to
see that nothing I was doing was satisfying a lot
of the elders, a lot of the community that I
wanted to please. Because again, being raised, I was raised

(09:33):
no family, no parents, being adopted, I had a lot
of acceptance issues. I always wanted to be accepted. I
always wanted to be liked, and I would do anything
to be accepted. I would have done anything to be
like so I was just doing so when I started
to see that they weren't working, I just kind of
slowly started to just become comfortable with either being scrutinized

(09:54):
or being an outsider. And they just slowly I just
became comfortable in being people thought.

Speaker 1 (10:00):
And I still struggle.

Speaker 2 (10:02):
I do.

Speaker 3 (10:02):
I still struggle to this day wanting to be liked
and wanted to be accepted by the church community because
even to this day, people that got danced too much,
and you know what I'm saying, I move around too much,
and you know they've heard me, you know, not always
use the most favorable words.

Speaker 1 (10:16):
You know what I'm saying. People can see that not
I'm a Christian, but I also got a little know what.

Speaker 3 (10:19):
I mean, you know, And so you know, I'm I'm
I'm I'm always trying to find a way to show people.

Speaker 1 (10:26):
Man, I really really love God. But I'm not perfect, right.

Speaker 2 (10:31):
You mentioned.

Speaker 5 (10:33):
Is that because you dance, because you moved because the
choir is swaying back and forth, is that when you're like, well,
hold on, I'm uplifting, and then you come to the realization,
I'm trying to appease a group of people that for
the Lion's Year, I'm not gonna be able to appease.

Speaker 3 (10:50):
Well, first of all, I also saw the post that
you posted of a fight in the club and they
was playing stone and and you were posted and do
you remember that to that was that was funny, that
was okay? So uh is is I just think that
you know, it's it's it's really trial and error.

Speaker 1 (11:07):
It's it's just really.

Speaker 3 (11:09):
The standing and falling and just trying your best to
figure out what is best for you? What is what
is what is the modus operendi for you? Because I
mean even people that love God, love Jesus, everybody don't
worship the same way.

Speaker 1 (11:22):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (11:23):
Some people may cry, some people may dance, some people
may speak in tongues so we may run around. Some
people may just be somber and steel, but we cannot
put our systems to faith on other people. And I
just think with with with with with stonp Stump became
just this other worldly thing that we were all trying

(11:44):
to figure out.

Speaker 5 (11:45):
Could Stop have become the commercial success that it did
become had you not put the spind in what you
put on it.

Speaker 1 (11:53):
Probably not.

Speaker 3 (11:54):
You know, it's I think that it it because at
the time Salt and I will coming friends. She was
kind of growing to her faith and we and we
develop a friendship. And so when this remix, when this
remix for Stump that came out with you know that
George Clinton joined in it, and and.

Speaker 1 (12:12):
Stump, you know, she heard it. I said, did she
want to jump on it?

Speaker 3 (12:15):
And She's like, yeah, man, I love it, and she
really loved matter of fact, she flew to Texas. They
even do her vocals where I live. Is I think
that it was just the perfect storm. I think because
we were young. I was twenty seven, she was young.
God's Property was young, you know, because my first because
my group was the Family. God's Property was a group

(12:36):
that I produced, but they were already put together by
this incredible lady named Linda C. Wright's school teacher. And
so I had these young kids that were good looking,
young kids. They were they were they were there were
some hood and they loved God, and so everything was
just the right marriage at the right time, and I'm
very humble for and very grateful.

Speaker 5 (12:55):
Do you think some of the blowback was because you
were so young? You know, in the church, normally it's
elderly that's leading, that's singing, that's leading devotional, that's doing
the praying. You mentioned you're twenty seven years of age. Yeah,
and maybe something just didn't seem to sit right with
the elders that a twenty seven year old is supposed
to be uplifting and serving.

Speaker 2 (13:15):
The Lord is doing.

Speaker 5 (13:17):
It's kind of like putting this is not saving the
music that we grew up with.

Speaker 1 (13:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (13:21):
Yeah, And and you can even unpack what you're even
saying even more is because we all when we were
young back in that era, had to act old to
be accepted. You remember that, like like like it's funny
because people a running to me and I say, yo, man,
you look younger now that you did back then. Well,
because we were acting and dressing old. Yes, because you
had to do you know, I mean jackets with that.
You remember jackets down here the Square Toe Gas and yeah,

(13:45):
from city slickers and Detroit.

Speaker 2 (13:48):
You remember that your freedoms in Atlanta, Atlanta, Boy.

Speaker 5 (13:51):
Don't you?

Speaker 3 (13:52):
David David Eastman. Yeah, yeah, yeah, So you know, we
were all trying to the point, to the point that
also there was a whole generation of us that if
we were not married, yes you know.

Speaker 1 (14:06):
What I'm saying, They didn't think that.

Speaker 3 (14:08):
It's like, you know, you can't be single and be
out there doing God's work because we know what single
people be doing, you know, and so like, yeah, well
you can still do it even though you're but but
but you got feared into a lot of things that
you may not have been ready for. You didn't understand,
you didn't know what you were doing, because the church
coach at that time has such a suppressive you gotta

(14:30):
be that, you gotta look like that, you gotta do
it like that. And so when you don't know, and
then when you have a level of biblical literacy yourself,
you trust in them to give you God's word instead
of realizing that a lot of you they're giving you
their word.

Speaker 5 (14:44):
Or their interpretation because it's passed out you know, their parents,
and they just passed it down exactly, and they passed down, down, down, down,
even though it's wrong, they're passing down wrong or what
they believe to be right.

Speaker 3 (14:57):
And a lot of that from that generation was the
colonize very version of American Christianity because it was all
about controlling black and brown people that did not have
a voice, and so that control ideal continue because that's
what they were given.

Speaker 2 (15:11):
Right.

Speaker 1 (15:11):
You know, you look at the slave.

Speaker 3 (15:13):
Bible and how certain pages were ripped out just to
control people. So historically we understand that Western religions and
Western Christianity have also unfortunately been tools of also weaponization.

Speaker 5 (15:27):
Yes, how does when you go in how do you
determine like to write a song? Are you like you
know I heard rappers? Like you know, I get up
and you know, I might be sleep and something hit
me and I'll get up and I'll start writing, or
I have an engineer and I start recording. When you
write your song, do they just come to you? Or
you say, you know what, I think it's time for
me to get back into the studio. How does how

(15:49):
did stop? And how did you know? I smile?

Speaker 2 (15:51):
And melodies from? How did they come about? Oh?

Speaker 1 (15:53):
Man?

Speaker 3 (15:53):
And just and just some multiplicitive ways. I mean, when
God is learning a song, they can come anywhere. I
mean they can come and you sleep stop like you're
in the bathroom shower. You know, I mean many times
I've you know, got like I like as I was
best to write a song for young lady Tammela. Man
take me to the King. And if you ever heard

(16:14):
take Me to the King. Yeah, but it's a it's
a real big beautiful song. And you know, like meet
the Brown.

Speaker 1 (16:21):
Have you heard a sing I have not?

Speaker 3 (16:26):
Somebody please get this man take me to the King.
When this is over, he's got to hear this song.
He gonna be calling me crying, this big old near
gro this big negro go call me weeping like bruh, bruh, bruh,
tam me.

Speaker 1 (16:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (16:41):
So so man, you know they just come and and
and in.

Speaker 1 (16:45):
Just a myriad of ways.

Speaker 5 (16:46):
Do you like, Okay, you're you sleep just like I'm sleeping.
Do you get up and start writing down or will
it stay with you till the morning?

Speaker 2 (16:53):
Well? Are you winning in the shower? Do you get
out of the shower?

Speaker 5 (16:56):
Do you stop what you're doing and start to put
pen to paper or can you remember the sequence in
which it.

Speaker 3 (17:05):
So many songs that have blessed people have been written
but naked? Next question, really, but but not one sock
on I straight out the bed.

Speaker 1 (17:17):
But if you come over to my house, don't sit
on that piano bench. Sit on that.

Speaker 3 (17:23):
Piano bench. Ain't had none but cheeks for Jesus. Next question,
what do you think?

Speaker 5 (17:31):
What's Kurk Franklin. Are you a better singer? Are you
a better songwriter?

Speaker 1 (17:36):
I'm a better singer.

Speaker 3 (17:40):
I am the worst singer in the world and I
have a career doing gospel music.

Speaker 1 (17:44):
It don't make no sense.

Speaker 3 (17:46):
It don't make no sense how God has been able
to be so kind to me and I'm not this
great singer. What happened was is that God was so
kind enough to give me this gift of songwriting. Like
I don't know what it was, Shannon, but as a
young boy, God would just give me lyrics and melodies,
and so, by God's grace, man, it's just been. It's

(18:09):
it's amazing. Like times in my life when I've had
doubts or questions about God, I'm always confident that God
exists because I see him vividly through the gift of songwriting.
Because Shannon, I don't even know where they come from.
I don't even know where these songs come from, Shadow,
They just come from all over the place. And you know,

(18:31):
and and all the songs that the people have heard
me do throughout the years, these are songs that God
has given me. I have never on any of my albums,
on any of my albums, and I say this humble.
I say it dependent on God's grace, kindness. I've never
co written with anyone, never co writ and says.

Speaker 1 (18:50):
God, just give me. God just be giving me.

Speaker 3 (18:52):
These music and lyrics and melodies. God just be kind
enough to loan them to me. I believe I've never
written a song in my life. Every song has been
loaned to me.

Speaker 1 (19:01):
Wow. I believe that.

Speaker 5 (19:03):
As a young child, were you one of those that
always sung in the church.

Speaker 1 (19:08):
I was the one that was always doing music. I
was one.

Speaker 3 (19:10):
But it's because I found out early on. I started
playing when I was four. The woman that adopted me,
she sold cans and she recycled cans and newspapers and
pay for my piano lessons, and so she had a
fourth grade education. And I was taking piano lessons at four.
And so I started playing very young. And I noticed
that piano playing would get girls attention. So the more
girls paid attention to me, man, I'd have broke my

(19:32):
fingers trying to get because that's what brought me attention.
And so I got good at it, you know, kind
of like default and so. And then what I could
do early on Shannon is I could I could flip
songs that was on the radio, Like I took a
Billy Jean the Bend in the Jets John, I flipped it,

(19:56):
He's coming back. I know he's coming back. I said that,
geez as I say it's coming in bag bum bum
bum bum bum boom bum.

Speaker 1 (20:04):
He said that he is coming back. Don don Don
don don.

Speaker 3 (20:10):
And I would teacher to the choir. I teach you
to like to like the kids choir. So I was
flipping all these songs, getting in trouble at church because
I was doing all the Earth when at Fire Cool
and the Gang Joints. And so that's how it kind
of just started for me early on.

Speaker 5 (20:24):
You kind of like a hot man, you kind of
like DJ Callen because you get the the choir sing.

Speaker 3 (20:29):
I'm I'm better looking, and I moved around a little. Yeah, Cali,
Cali got bad knees. It's got love you, Cavin.

Speaker 5 (20:43):
So how long does it typically take you from start
to finish to complete a song.

Speaker 1 (20:49):
It all depends. It can be in one night.

Speaker 3 (20:52):
It can be you write a song of the night,
take me to the King, God give me that song
and one night. Uh, I smiled, God give it to
me in a day, uh Stone And yeah, most most
of the time, most of the time I'm going to
labor with a song. I'm I'm not gonna let it
just ride. Like Melodies from Heaven. I was up at

(21:12):
my old high school and working with high school choir
when God lonely Melodies from Heaven nineteen ninety four. Melodie
from Heaven was nineteen ninety four.

Speaker 5 (21:22):
Wow, when you're writing, do you have any idea how successful?

Speaker 2 (21:28):
Nong it's gonna be.

Speaker 1 (21:29):
No.

Speaker 5 (21:31):
Never have you ever been surprised, like, I don't know
about this one? Yes, and it blows away and you're like, oh,
this is a camp basing like dang, I.

Speaker 3 (21:37):
Have never had a song that I was confident in.
Never now, Kirk Franklin, you that don't mean nothing. That
don't mean nothing. I'm always shocked. I'm never confident in
the song, never in my life. And I'm not trying
to be false humility, dude, I'm separate chilling. One of
the dopest players in the game Bad History. I'm not
gonna be, you know, be on any cap. I literally

(22:00):
have never had a song that I was confident that
people going into from my smile to looking for you,
medicine Heaven while we sing now Gold the Lamb, I mean,
my life is in your hands all these songs.

Speaker 5 (22:13):
Uh, why do you believe you've been able to connect
with so many people across so many different genres.

Speaker 1 (22:20):
I don't know, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (22:22):
I you know, it's I think that the weirdest thing
is for me when when the songs do, if there's anything,
maybe God kind of took my beginning. And because I
was a hip hop dancer my name is kid Fresh.
When I was back in the day, I could spend
on my head, I could rap at skating ring, you know,

(22:43):
and I was influenced by urban music. I didn't get
influenced until but by gust music until I was about sixteen.
A friend of mine got killed and then that summer
I trusted the low in my heart that that summer
and got a little more serious with my faith.

Speaker 1 (22:56):
But before that, you know, smoking.

Speaker 3 (22:58):
Weed on a church parket lot, you know, wild and
that back in the you know how the churches used
to have like the Little locke Ins and the teenager
will spend the night church. Oh, it was a lot
of wronging a lot.

Speaker 1 (23:09):
It was a lot of wrong going back to the church.

Speaker 3 (23:11):
So you know, you know, you know, I I I
think that I also think that what gospel music was
not doing that. I think that I didn't intentionally try
to do I was just trying to get my own help.
I think I was just really honest about how I
felt in songs, like if I didn't believe God was

(23:31):
gonna do something, I didn't write it.

Speaker 1 (23:33):
I would write help me believe.

Speaker 3 (23:35):
Or you know, if you know, if you know, like
a song like imagine me. Like I was always just
trying to be honest in my songs. I wasn't trying
to act like I was already there. It's because I
wasn't there. I was struggling. So I think I included
a lot of my struggle in where I was in
life in songs. And I think maybe, and I can
only say maybe, because I don't know God's playing, then

(23:55):
maybe what it did for people that said for people
they were like me too. You know what I'm saying,
I'm there too, you know, And that's the only thing,
that's the only thing.

Speaker 1 (24:05):
I can think of it.

Speaker 3 (24:05):
I don't know, because, bro, you don't know how many
dope gospel artists are out there. And I know that,
you know, you know, it's for whatever reason, maybe because
I'm little and whatever, you know, people see me more.

Speaker 1 (24:17):
Whatever.

Speaker 3 (24:18):
But man, there's so many people in this genre, Shannon,
They cold, cold songwriters, cold singers, and you know, man,
I'm just trying my best to let people know that
it's not just Kirk Franklin is not only in gospel music.
There are so many people, and I feel like it's
my job to shed light on how many dope you know,
Jonathan Mcreynold's and Tasha Cobbs, Lennard, the Walls Group, Doe.

(24:41):
I mean, it's so many hitters out here, so many
channeler more.

Speaker 1 (24:46):
Man, it's some beast in the game.

Speaker 5 (24:48):
Do you think because of your age you were able
to bring a younger generation into secular music? Because when
I was growing up, it was Shirley Caesar, it was
the Mississippi.

Speaker 2 (24:57):
Man's Choir, it was all.

Speaker 5 (24:59):
It was the older Now maybe now that I look
back at it, I mean, maybe they weren't that much older,
But it was just they seemed.

Speaker 1 (25:06):
They way older than you. Yeah, they're way older.

Speaker 2 (25:09):
But you, I mean in your twenties.

Speaker 1 (25:11):
Shirley Sees is one hundred and thirty seven years old.
That's my mom. I love. Who were you listening to?

Speaker 3 (25:19):
Like like like like, did you ever listen to any
gospel music when you was back in the day?

Speaker 2 (25:22):
Well, my grandfather, yeah, chirty Caesar.

Speaker 1 (25:26):
But you you and then you you no, no.

Speaker 2 (25:28):
No no no no no no. We not riding to ride.

Speaker 5 (25:30):
As soon as soon as they got at the call,
we popped something else here, We popped the earth.

Speaker 2 (25:34):
Wait to fire the barcade?

Speaker 3 (25:36):
Ohio player, Yes, sir, did you ever listen to any
of my.

Speaker 1 (25:40):
Music back then?

Speaker 2 (25:41):
Oh? The ones that just came over.

Speaker 3 (25:44):
Got you Got, You Got, You Got, you Got, you got,
you got, got your soul?

Speaker 1 (25:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (25:46):
So so then you didn't know that there was a
whole bunch of like hitters. No, yeah, oh man, Chumpy
Key Fred, heaven have you heard of these guys? I
have not, brother, Jumpy Key Fred Hammon Man, just bro.
Just the list I'm talking about is I'm talking about
Shannon through the artists that went Beyonce and Joe des

(26:11):
He would walk into the room. They'd be doing this
to these artists because see, you got to remember, gospel
music influenced Black.

Speaker 2 (26:18):
Yes, absolutely so they grew up.

Speaker 1 (26:20):
Whitney grew up in the church and everybody, everybody.

Speaker 3 (26:23):
So when they walked into the room and a Fred
Hammond was in the room, or the Clark sisters was
in the room, Dude, the biggest pop stars justin Timberlake,
they idolize these people in gospel music. And I think
I really do believe, Shanon, that I'm that that one
of my callings in life is to shed light on

(26:44):
the talent and the greatness that exists in my community.

Speaker 5 (26:49):
How were you able to get some of the biggest
artists from other genres to collab with you? I'm looking
at you. Get Whitney and Kanye Mary j Jill Scott,
little Baby, chance to wrap a Mariah j T JB.
De Melvado, Babyface, Stevie wanted Tomorrow Braxton boys, DEMI saw
how I.

Speaker 2 (27:09):
Don't know, So what's the call? Okay? Like man, I think,
I mean I would like to have beyonso or I'd
like to have this. So you you just put.

Speaker 3 (27:19):
In life some and then some are relationships that others
may have and say, hey, so and so wants to
you to jump on something, or it may be a
movie and the studio it's like, hey, we want to
put you together with so and so so.

Speaker 1 (27:35):
You know.

Speaker 3 (27:35):
So it's just been just a multiplicity of moments that
have just kind of, you know, just come from relationship.
And then you know, there were also people like a
Mary J. Blige or or or a Pharrell, And these
are people that were raised in the church that knew
the music that I was already doing because they were
listening to it in their own private time. So when

(27:56):
it was time to do something, they were already at
clim made it not necessarily to me, but through the
music that I was doing and really loved it. And
so you know, that kind of built some relationships. So
it's it's it's been a myriad of ways. And I'm
just very grateful.

Speaker 2 (28:11):
Who was in the studio. Kurk frankly was.

Speaker 3 (28:14):
In all of Stevie Wonder, Steve because he's Stevie Wonder,
and Stevie Wonder allowed me to produce him to Now
that's what gave me get Now, that's what gave me
Bubba Guts. I got Bubba Guts because I because I
was I was recommending some things for him to do vocally, right,
and it's like and he was cool with I'm like, okay,

(28:36):
I can't believe that he's trusting my compass in this
song moment, and he did and it was it was
you know, and I was like, and I mean, just
to have that for me was life changing because you
talk about somebody who has just reached over generations in decades, yes,
and you know, and you talk about goat status, you know,

(28:56):
like he's out pack of status, you know what I mean,
our packer, you know, So you know, to be able
to have that was just a very beautiful moment.

Speaker 2 (29:07):
Well, Michael with me. I never worked with Michael. You
never worked with Michael, so what would have been?

Speaker 3 (29:13):
Like I've worked with some of but but watched this
though John McClain, who's an incredible guy who oversees Michael
Jackson's the state. John McLean got me my deal over
at inter School for Jimmy Ivean several years ago. And
John McLean oversees the state and so they're always reimagining
Michael's uh, his his catalog and so there have been

(29:34):
some projects that I've redone that had Michael on it,
And so I'm in the studio listening to Michael's raw
vocals and just so you know, it's it's been amazing.

Speaker 5 (29:44):
What's that? What's that? What's that like? Because we know,
I mean, we grew up with Mike. I'm talking about
in the Jackson five and then he went off the wall.

Speaker 3 (29:51):
Big nos, Michael, little nose, Michael, baby heard Michael.

Speaker 5 (29:56):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we grew up with Mike. So what's
it like to like the here his voice unfiltered?

Speaker 3 (30:03):
It is, it is It makes you feel a level
of unworthiness that you are experiencing royalty in the room
to be able to take all the tracks out and
you can hear just Michael breathing and Michael singing and
Michael doing pants and I'm talking about I've been blessed
to work on quite a few projects for Jonathan, I mean,
for for for John McClain, where I'm working on Michael's

(30:27):
raw vocals. I'm working with Michael's stuff that he did
with his brothers and stuff he did with himself and
trying to reimagine it. And it is like rawty and
the fact that he was that cold because back then.

Speaker 1 (30:38):
One no auto tune, you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (30:41):
That's him, but bro, that's him stomping and breathing while
he's singing. It's it's it's because everything right now, you know,
is don't nobody want to hate on the next generation.
But everything is so produced, Everything is so filtered.

Speaker 1 (30:55):
Down at times.

Speaker 3 (30:58):
But the challenge is was overproducer now is what people's
ears accustomed to, and so people like it.

Speaker 2 (31:03):
Right, So if you don't overproduce it, they gonna think
that person.

Speaker 3 (31:06):
Can't they don't like it anymore. It's because now music
is not music anymore. Music now is a vibe, right,
It's a vibe and and and if the musical had
that vibe, and sometimes the vibe is overproduced. Sometimes the
vibe is slowed down. Slow the voice down, filter the
voice down. So you're not going nowhere like Michael. Because
Michael was just breathing, sweating, and you can you can

(31:27):
hit a stank on the microphone, spitting on the microphone.

Speaker 1 (31:30):
And you know that that that was a great moment
for me.

Speaker 5 (31:34):
Prince Michael Whitney, if you had an opportunity to work
with those what do you think that.

Speaker 1 (31:42):
Would be like for you, I've had a chance to
work with Whitney.

Speaker 2 (31:46):
How's Whitney's voice?

Speaker 1 (31:48):
You know, are you here?

Speaker 5 (31:49):
I mean to hear it on a on a on
a record to hear and when he's doing things, But
to be there, it has to be different in studio
than it is.

Speaker 3 (32:00):
M M yeah, yeah, you know she she well And
then see Whitney is not fair because Whitney was a
church girl and she never churched, she never turned that off.
So it wasn't far removed from the worlds that we
lived in. Her and c C were cool, She was
cool with all these other people. So so Whitney was
just an extension of the world that I came from.

Speaker 1 (32:22):
Prince Prince came. I was, I was.

Speaker 3 (32:27):
I was seated at an event channing and during a
commercial break, Prince came down to me and kneel before
me and he gave me. He said, here's my number,
and I want you to come to Minneapolis and jam
with me.

Speaker 1 (32:39):
And you know, I didn't go. It was so early
on in my career.

Speaker 3 (32:43):
Those voices from that church culture, because you know, you
know Prince, you know he'll do music.

Speaker 1 (32:49):
And his draws.

Speaker 2 (32:50):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, he'll come.

Speaker 1 (32:52):
To study on a g strike.

Speaker 2 (32:53):
Yeah yeah, yellow, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (32:59):
I didn't, you know, and so you know, people seeing
his cheeks out, I didn't want to be trying to argue, well,
you know what, you know what, you know, his cheeks
is a bed to do good music, you know. So
so I didn't even return them, is I didn't even
I didn't even take him up on all he said.
He said, I want you come to Minneapolis and jam.

Speaker 1 (33:17):
And I didn't do it. Man, I didn't do it.
He called the crib.

Speaker 2 (33:21):
You gotta go just to see Pays the park.

Speaker 1 (33:23):
I know I want to. He called the crib.

Speaker 3 (33:26):
He called the crib bro and kissed my baby and
said hey, say hey to Tamm before he left. And
and I let fear get in the way of me
working with him.

Speaker 5 (33:36):
What artist today would you like to do collab with
that you have it? If you haven't done what with them?
Who would you like to do a collab with?

Speaker 3 (33:48):
You know, as I know that some of the church
folk would probably give me again. Man, But you know,
I am a fan of the lyrical genius of Sean Carter.

Speaker 1 (33:59):
Oh I am, I am.

Speaker 3 (34:03):
I think lyrically he's a juggernaut, the fact that he
doesn't write what he says down and the intentionality of
the conversations that he has good and bad. Right, you know,
I'm I'm just I've always been because you know, we're
in the same age Democrat, you know, so I've got
to you know, I've had a chance to live with

(34:25):
with his journey.

Speaker 1 (34:26):
It would be Sean.

Speaker 3 (34:28):
Carter and uh Sting wow Sting from the police. Those
those would be my two dream And if he was living,
I would love to work with Andre Crouch.

Speaker 1 (34:42):
Andre Kroutch was a great guy.

Speaker 2 (34:44):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, the wine, I.

Speaker 3 (34:47):
Think all that James Cleveland, all that grandfather age.

Speaker 1 (34:52):
Sure, yeah, man.

Speaker 5 (34:54):
But so Prince was the one that you like, man,
I mean, he might have had y'all min could have.

Speaker 2 (35:00):
Done a song together.

Speaker 1 (35:01):
His cheeks was out.

Speaker 5 (35:02):
It was a man that got nothing to do with that.
The man, like you said, he was a genius. Oh
you talk about right?

Speaker 3 (35:10):
Oh oh, and you know, like like I don't even
have that conversation with people, you know where everybody bring
up the Michael of Prince. I don't even do that.
But first of all, it's it's an insult to their greatness.
But they were two different different, two different phenoms. But
Prince musically the fact, because you know Prince could play
every instruments and then he could go to the studio

(35:32):
and engineer what he plays. That's just a whole nother bohemos.
That's that's that's that's yeah.

Speaker 1 (35:37):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (35:38):
You gonna walk You gonna walk around with your cheeks out.
If you can do all that, you see what I'm saying.

Speaker 5 (35:43):
Yea, his mind has to be because you think about
what Raspberry ray and and and and pink and pink.

Speaker 1 (35:49):
Cash made all of that mind.

Speaker 5 (35:51):
Jesus, oh, purple rain unders the cherry moons.

Speaker 3 (35:57):
His nose in April, just even that line. And he
was having that kind of line back in the eighties.

Speaker 5 (36:03):
Yes, yes, he was new. He was way ahead of
his time. Yeah, because the way he was thinking, I
was like, you.

Speaker 3 (36:10):
Remember Lady cap Driver, Yes, do you know that's him
on drums? Is it listen to their pack to pack
the boom back?

Speaker 1 (36:17):
Better packed back? Doom pack to packed up? Princess playing drums.

Speaker 2 (36:23):
Lady cab Driver, won't you take me? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (36:29):
It's genius.

Speaker 2 (36:31):
I mean, so as far as songwriters, you might have to.

Speaker 3 (36:34):
Like Stevie Prince babyface, baby yeah face, Stevie Prince Babyface,
And I'm gonna tell you who I think. Let me
tell you who. I'm gonna tell your name, and you
tell me what you think of his name. Let me
tell you who I think should have been with Like
you remember when Dady had domain over all?

Speaker 1 (36:53):
What was happening musically? Yeah, let me tell who I think?

Speaker 3 (36:56):
And Timberland like like like you remember how much Yeah,
ain't Timberland had just a real estate.

Speaker 1 (37:01):
Let me tell you your name.

Speaker 3 (37:02):
I'm gonna throw out a name to you, and I'm
gonna tell you who I think that we slept on
that he should have been. The name that really dominated
the conversation of nineties black pop music. Davante from Jodasy. Yeah,
you remember the sound that Jodasy brought in because they
were church boys, Yes, they were church boys.

Speaker 2 (37:25):
But Davante's he brought something else that what he brought,
what he brought.

Speaker 3 (37:30):
Brought in a lot of babies, brought a lot of babies,
a lot of babies. Davante's production, if you listen to
those Jodysy records, his production, it was like what But
then again he come up under You know that that Virginia.

Speaker 1 (37:44):
World him for real Timberland.

Speaker 3 (37:47):
But but miss he was working he was working on
Missy Elliston Davante. Davante, I think is a name that
we miss and forget when it comes to popular black music.

Speaker 5 (37:59):
So when you you go down this path, you're you're
denying who you really are to appease the masses because
that's what they think it should be. You're trying to
appease them, so that's what you think it should be.
So now, so how do you make that flip and
want to perform? Because you're a performer at the end

(38:20):
of the day. Yeah, you're a songwriter. Yeah you can sing,
but I've seen you. You're a performer at the end
of the day.

Speaker 2 (38:27):
Yeah, saw ya.

Speaker 3 (38:29):
What do you send me for?

Speaker 5 (38:30):
I got TV you. You're a performer, and when you're
up there, I think sometimes you like, Okay, yeah, I
know this is second suburban gospel music, but you're not
You're not moving like Miss Magic Brother Brown in the

(38:51):
Deacon's Course.

Speaker 3 (38:53):
I just enjoy having fun. I enjoy having fun. I
enjoy what I when I'm when i'm when i'm when
I'm blessed to do and I love getting excited about
my faith and I love it get excited about the music.
And sometimes I'm probably sometimes I probably do too much.
I know I probably move around too much. But you
know I'm I'm forgetting and getting just getting lost in

(39:13):
the beauty of the moments.

Speaker 2 (39:15):
You know, Man, apply if want to do a don't
want to do a collapse.

Speaker 1 (39:18):
He don't want to do nothing.

Speaker 2 (39:18):
He'll want that. He don't want to do nothing.

Speaker 3 (39:20):
He'll want to do nothing. He'll want do not he
be talking.

Speaker 1 (39:22):
He'd be running, he'd be just running.

Speaker 2 (39:25):
Hear that, he said, you'd be talking you want me?

Speaker 1 (39:26):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (39:27):
Yeah, it's because we we were supposed to being a
guy together. We was gonna do something in Florida and Miami.

Speaker 2 (39:32):
What do we have?

Speaker 1 (39:33):
He don't want to do nothing, He'll w't do nothing.

Speaker 3 (39:34):
Is because I think he's really, really, really afraid that
I could be his daddy swag.

Speaker 5 (39:47):
I mean you come here today, you got the l
V on, you dripped. I mean, you're not dressed tipping
like the church would want you to dress. So how
did you say?

Speaker 2 (40:00):
You know what?

Speaker 5 (40:01):
Man, I ain't for the window, Square Toe Gator, I
ain't for the window Stacy Adam window, real socks.

Speaker 2 (40:06):
I'm not fit to wear the low jacket.

Speaker 3 (40:08):
Hey, but there was a time I did though, That's
what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (40:12):
There was a time I did.

Speaker 3 (40:13):
I had the guy, I had the square toe game.

Speaker 2 (40:16):
You a small man, though, you can't be wearing those
big old zoo suit I know.

Speaker 3 (40:19):
And that's why I look the food. That's why I
look the food, trying to pease the church people. You know,
it's I just think that I'm Shanny.

Speaker 1 (40:26):
You know how it is.

Speaker 3 (40:27):
Man, the older you get, the more comfortable. Yes, you
find yourself in your skin.

Speaker 2 (40:32):
Yes, you gotta be.

Speaker 1 (40:33):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (40:34):
I'm fifty three. My first album came up I was
twenty three. So I've lived through my twenties. I've lived
through my thirties, I've lived through my forties.

Speaker 1 (40:41):
I'm comfortable.

Speaker 3 (40:43):
Who don't like me now, ain't gonna like me?

Speaker 2 (40:45):
Correct?

Speaker 1 (40:46):
Not at fifty three.

Speaker 3 (40:47):
Ain't nothing I can do to change anybody's mind now nothing.
And those who rock with me, you know, we'll go
to baby Gap and I don't give me a ones in,
you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (40:56):
And keep it pushing.

Speaker 2 (40:57):
So the dash moves, I mean, when you up there
Oh my gosh, I mean you be doing the later down.
I mean you be watching, Oh my gosh, and you
incorporating them.

Speaker 1 (41:06):
Oh my gosh. I'll be just having fun.

Speaker 3 (41:09):
I'm not a dancer. Like I couldn't go to a
studio and learn choreography, right, I couldn't. I would be horrible.
And a one and a two and a and a
stop and the turner. I couldn't do it. It would
be horrible. So I'm just really having fun. I'm just
having fun. I'm having fun, and I'm an excited man
to be telling people how double Jesus is.

Speaker 1 (41:28):
Man, and I have a good time doing it. I
just have a good time.

Speaker 3 (41:32):
I think that what has always been confusing to me, Shannon,
is that we say that we got the truth, we
say we got the light of love, and we got
the hope and compass from people. But we can be
the most square, the most lame acting people in the world.

Speaker 1 (41:47):
And so for me, I.

Speaker 3 (41:49):
Just need to be counterintuitive to all of the social
constructs of what people think a Christian should be and
shouldn't be and shouldn't do. What I'm walking around telling
y'all the man I'm in love with the creator of
the universe.

Speaker 1 (42:05):
Right, that should get you lit right.

Speaker 3 (42:06):
That shouldn't get you turned more than more than talking
about you know, as I was on the block, you know,
with with that, with that, with that work in my
backpack and whoop, And it's like, bro, bro, I'm out
here giving you this Jesus.

Speaker 1 (42:19):
Right, and you can't be letting with me. I'm that
that has always confused me.

Speaker 3 (42:25):
We should be the most excited, most on fire, most loving,
most compassionate, most forgiving people in the world because we
look in the mirror every day and see what we were,
We see who we are and if it weren't for
God's grace, where would I be?

Speaker 2 (42:40):
Yeah, we also the most judgmental. You left that part.

Speaker 3 (42:42):
Out and it's sad, But why do you think that is?

Speaker 2 (42:47):
Man?

Speaker 1 (42:48):
And just keep it a buck.

Speaker 5 (42:50):
I just think the thing is is that we have
a hard time seeing someone that looks like us have
more than us. It is not the fact that it's
not the fact that they don't have it. They just
don't want you to have it. Because for the longest time,
as long because I've had homies, as long as I

(43:11):
was doing what they were doing, they had the exact
same thing.

Speaker 2 (43:13):
As they had nothing more, nothing less.

Speaker 5 (43:15):
Yeah we're cool. Yeah, I start to go here. They
didn't go with me. Yeah, not the problem I changed,
Yeah I did. Unfortunate part about it. You didn't change
with me. But it's sad because when I hear most
of the hard screen and I don't have no problem
with you critiquing me. If there's my performance I'm on
television and something, I didn't worry it properly, okay, But

(43:38):
to just dislike me or to say something so negative.

Speaker 2 (43:43):
Just because, yes, that's the problem. That's where I like.

Speaker 5 (43:49):
Joe saying it be your own people, And it does
because most of the people that criticized me on social media,
they aint of the opposite race.

Speaker 2 (43:57):
They looked like me.

Speaker 3 (44:00):
My My only criticism seriously would be it's I think
you brush your teeth too much.

Speaker 1 (44:10):
I just don't see how that's fair to your teeth.
I just don't to me.

Speaker 3 (44:15):
To me, that's that's that's that's that's that's teeth brutality.

Speaker 5 (44:22):
I got one hundred and thirty bands with veneers and implants.

Speaker 1 (44:26):
But they don't need that much into that that.

Speaker 2 (44:29):
That I mean, you can't be all of it.

Speaker 5 (44:31):
May you all up in people's faith and they'd be like, yeah, yeah, man, okay,
I'll see you later.

Speaker 3 (44:35):
But Shannon, how often do you do it today? Once again?
How much fun?

Speaker 2 (44:40):
Seventyeen?

Speaker 3 (44:41):
That's what I'm saying, that that that is discrimination, that
there's there's there's there's something very cool to that toothbrush.
That can you imagine the trauma that that.

Speaker 2 (44:52):
Tooth change it out every two weeks?

Speaker 3 (44:54):
So then you abandoned the toothbrush, That's what I'm saying.
So you're just so so so you're not even loyal.

Speaker 5 (44:59):
No, not to the tooth brush though, I mean with
that many times, I mean you only get you only
get so many brushes out.

Speaker 2 (45:06):
Of a tooth brush.

Speaker 3 (45:07):
I think any therapy maybe Yeah. I just don't think
that's right. And I'm gonna be praying for you on that.

Speaker 1 (45:15):
Okay, that's why.

Speaker 2 (45:16):
What if I could it down to five.

Speaker 1 (45:19):
Half?

Speaker 5 (45:22):
But I can't leave the house. I mean I can't
leave the house without brushing my teeth.

Speaker 3 (45:25):
So do you have a holotosis problem?

Speaker 1 (45:27):
Do you feel like your brother?

Speaker 2 (45:28):
I don't think so, but I don't want to run the.

Speaker 3 (45:31):
Risk I had a woman say it to you.

Speaker 2 (45:32):
No, I've never had so.

Speaker 1 (45:34):
Then I just I would say, but that would be that.

Speaker 5 (45:37):
Would be a bad feeling, because I've had I mean,
have you ever had to tell somebody and if you
have to find the appropriate way to tell someone that.

Speaker 3 (45:46):
Do you know being in church, how many preachers would
bad breath be praying over you?

Speaker 1 (45:50):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (45:50):
Yeah, all the stinky prayers.

Speaker 5 (45:52):
And that's probably why God ain't heard it pray heard, yeah,
because he keep it them away.

Speaker 2 (45:56):
From looking the girl.

Speaker 3 (46:00):
Brush your teeth once in the morning, Brush your teeth
before you go to band, no move.

Speaker 1 (46:05):
That's what the average Dennis will tell you.

Speaker 5 (46:07):
The new see see remember how they thought in the
church how it should be.

Speaker 2 (46:13):
You see how they see how they pants that down
to you.

Speaker 3 (46:18):
So you said we got you said we got colonized tennis?

Speaker 5 (46:23):
Oh it just after break, after every meal. Now, I
mean as soon as I get up in the morning,
I got before I do anything. I don't go downstairs
before I brush my teeth. That's fair, that's right.

Speaker 2 (46:31):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (46:31):
Now eat, I gotta brush him again, that's kind of fair.

Speaker 5 (46:37):
Okay, I get to work, I gotta brush them again.
For you, I gotta brush him again before I go
in there.

Speaker 1 (46:42):
What happened?

Speaker 3 (46:42):
What happened before you left the crib. I mean, you
left the crib and you get to work. Ain't nothing happened?

Speaker 2 (46:46):
Nothing?

Speaker 3 (46:47):
Nothing though, because if something, if something else happened, then
you don't have a tooth brushing problem.

Speaker 1 (46:52):
You got a whole. There's a whole out of a fungus.

Speaker 5 (46:56):
Nah, I'm good you No, I brushed our fly off,
I go. Why it's a year to the dinners. You know,
makes everything okay inside is good? So no, I don't
have no, I don't have no problem. Like you said,
maybe you know what, maybe it is a little obsessive,
But what's normal? What is normal? Because what's normal to
you might not be normal to me. Obviously what's normal

(47:17):
to me is not normal to you.

Speaker 1 (47:19):
Well, I brushed my teeth a couple of times a week.

Speaker 3 (47:21):
That that that's.

Speaker 1 (47:25):
What I'm lying.

Speaker 3 (47:32):
I brush my teeth every day, every day, just once
in the morning and the night.

Speaker 1 (47:36):
Shannon, Jesus, I sure hope.

Speaker 2 (47:38):
You don't go out your house every child.

Speaker 3 (47:44):
Did you play sports as a child, Shannon, I've been
this height since I was six, so I've struggled with sports.

Speaker 1 (47:53):
Now.

Speaker 2 (47:53):
If you want to play sports now, I.

Speaker 3 (47:55):
Tried to run track I was good in track, okay,
because I was tired to get my butt whips. I
was always good running, right, you know, So yes, I
could run track. I was good in track. But then
by the time I got to high school, everybody grew right,
and and.

Speaker 1 (48:08):
It was a rap. It was a rap.

Speaker 2 (48:10):
So did you did you.

Speaker 1 (48:11):
The trauma that just coming back in mouth?

Speaker 3 (48:13):
I just remember just everybody growing up and I didn't
get to just to grow up.

Speaker 5 (48:16):
So okay, as a six seven year old, eight year
old your average height, then all of a sudden, you
go for the summer and you steal that same height
and everybody and then another summer, bro.

Speaker 1 (48:28):
I'm talking about that.

Speaker 3 (48:29):
But that summer between the eighth and ninth grade, right,
it was like oh oh. And then the summer between
the ninth and tenth grade it was oh, it was
old like Cusworth.

Speaker 1 (48:40):
And so every.

Speaker 3 (48:41):
Year, bro, and it's like, okay, am I gonna be
like a little person, you know, you know, like I
was gonna have to like, you know, I always carry
like a car seat, you know.

Speaker 1 (48:51):
Would I be able to work? Would I be able
to ride all the rids of six Flags?

Speaker 2 (48:55):
You know?

Speaker 3 (48:56):
You know, well, I always have to work clothes they
have like a big zipper in the front, right. You know,
I just didn't really know what was gonna happen.

Speaker 5 (49:02):
To that, so obviously you know it. Look, this is
not new. I mean they call it bullying. Now we
call it picky make fun of your size, your height,
you know how we do.

Speaker 3 (49:16):
Do you know that when it came to girls and
when it came to things I did not have. I
did not know that my height was a big issue
until I had a career. And then after I had
a career, I could hear people say like, oh, he's.

Speaker 1 (49:30):
Short in person, he's shortened person.

Speaker 3 (49:32):
Right, But but before that, I never had a girl
say I'm not gonna.

Speaker 1 (49:36):
Date you because you're shark.

Speaker 2 (49:38):
You kind of yeah, that was that was, I mean,
I see what ex actly this?

Speaker 1 (49:44):
What is? What is? Okay? I was because that.

Speaker 3 (49:47):
Hurt me so bad. I was like, wow, but you
said it loud.

Speaker 5 (49:52):
I did, But I didn't need to blurt it out
like that because I didn't mean to seem as surprised
as I was.

Speaker 2 (49:57):
But kind of surprise.

Speaker 5 (49:59):
I because I mean, I mean, normally you know they
want the big athlete, they won't but you could.

Speaker 2 (50:04):
See, you know what you could see I.

Speaker 1 (50:06):
Could play that.

Speaker 3 (50:06):
See yeah see that to see that was you couldn't
play that.

Speaker 5 (50:09):
Pim See that's what you that's how you. Yeah, musicians,
entertainers and athletes.

Speaker 3 (50:14):
You know how short Princess I do. And Prince could
take you a woman?

Speaker 2 (50:18):
Yeah yeah yeah, now.

Speaker 5 (50:21):
He said, considered the guy in the tenth grade too,
got so, I don't think PRIs would have any problem.

Speaker 2 (50:30):
See, man, you got your I was just joking. What
was your favorite sport as a child?

Speaker 3 (50:39):
You know, I didn't play sports as a child until
school and the right track.

Speaker 1 (50:43):
Outside of that, it was music. Everything was music.

Speaker 2 (50:47):
But you had that. Okay, let me, let me, let
me please ask.

Speaker 1 (50:50):
You the athlete. I'm trying to tell you that.

Speaker 2 (50:53):
Okay from Dallas, please tell me. I'm from Worth, You're
from for Worth? Okay, your favorite team.

Speaker 1 (50:59):
To my favorite?

Speaker 3 (51:05):
I never had a It's I never had a favorite
team coming up. It's because I remember liking land Swan.
Well no, no, I remember liking Tony Dark said, I
remember liking Joe Namas.

Speaker 1 (51:20):
I remember liking uh, you know, just just different.

Speaker 5 (51:24):
And I've got at the team where you stayed that
you're from, Yes, you would all way around the world
just to say that.

Speaker 2 (51:40):
I like Liz wid I like your name. That stop there.
You don't go, well, you love the cowboy.

Speaker 1 (51:46):
But no, no, it's what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (51:48):
I'm not a big sports guy, so I'm not really
paying attention until maybe like the playoffs and the championships
and then I give.

Speaker 5 (51:55):
You a cowboy pair from you. Ain't got nothing, no
cowboy helmet.

Speaker 1 (51:59):
Never had, never hold, no Mavericks nothing. No.

Speaker 3 (52:03):
I was not the kid I had on my wall.
I had pulled out of GQ magazine.

Speaker 1 (52:07):
That's what I had on my wall.

Speaker 3 (52:09):
I had to have post them like Ralph Lauren, you know,
Perry Yellois.

Speaker 2 (52:13):
Yeah, I was that guy.

Speaker 1 (52:14):
Yes, I was that kid.

Speaker 2 (52:16):
You see. It's easy for you to dress.

Speaker 1 (52:18):
Oh because I'm little, but you'll be flying, I see you.

Speaker 2 (52:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (52:22):
But most of the stuff has to be customer, has
to be extra lar. But I mean, so you just
go get off the rack.

Speaker 3 (52:26):
I do, and some stuff I can get with. The
whole thing is on the same rack.

Speaker 2 (52:34):
Hold on.

Speaker 3 (52:37):
John Drummond, John Drummond, track runner, Yeah, best friend, John Drummond,
best friend, Gold medalist. It just depends what we're running from,
depends where we're running from shout out to John Drummond.

Speaker 1 (52:52):
No, I have a lot of great athlete friends. And then.

Speaker 3 (52:56):
Dion and I right close friends, em It great friends,
Kirk Warner great friends. I have a lot of great friends,
Chris Paul, Chris Paul Rock great friends. And they love
me because I don't know nothing about what they do.
If we don't talk sports, we just talk about life.

(53:18):
I know none of the stats and all that.

Speaker 2 (53:20):
If you weren't a musician, wouldn't Kirk Frankly be doing?

Speaker 3 (53:27):
I think I would love to be a fourth grade
school teacher. What I would love to work with.

Speaker 2 (53:31):
Kikids bad and the teachers don't make any money.

Speaker 3 (53:35):
They don't make any money. But I love teaching and help.

Speaker 5 (53:39):
It might have been okay before the cell phone came out.
Now you know every fourth grade got a cell.

Speaker 1 (53:44):
Phone in fourth grade.

Speaker 2 (53:45):
Then the Internet. Yeah, and they want to be on
the cell phone when you teach it.

Speaker 3 (53:48):
That is true, That is true. But I probably would
have loved to be a school teacher or something like that.

Speaker 1 (53:53):
I don't know. I don't know. I've been doing music
all my whole life. I don't know what else I do.

Speaker 5 (53:57):
You had a movie yeah, hold on, you had a
soundtrack on the movie Norbit Any given Sunday.

Speaker 3 (54:04):
Yeah, it's I had a song in the movie Orbit,
and I had a song in any given Sunday.

Speaker 2 (54:10):
You know that's not normal for.

Speaker 1 (54:13):
A gospel artist. Yeah, I'm grateful. I'm very grateful.

Speaker 2 (54:18):
Do you understand just how big you are?

Speaker 3 (54:27):
I don't think it's necessary to even even have the conversation.
I think that it's a mute moment for me, and
there's nothing beneficial about it for me. For me personally,
I'm not saying it's wrong for anybody else, but for Kirk.
Conversations of self glory and self self loathing spaces For me,

(54:50):
I'd rather be in rooms or have conversations about how
dope you are or how dope that person is. They've
just never been beneficial for me, so I always choose
to kind of just kind of bowed those questions and conversations.

Speaker 2 (55:04):
Have you ever considered getting into acting?

Speaker 3 (55:06):
I've done a little bit of stuff here and there,
kind of doubled. We have a show right now on
on b ET Plus called Kingdom Business, and I'm an
executive producer along with Devon Franklin, The Holly Davis Carter
and I've got a little role I do in there,
and I've executive produced a couple of Christmas movies hall
Mark and I'll jump in. So yeah, you know, I've
had has just to do some fun stuff here and there.

Speaker 5 (55:26):
Is that something that you would like to take on
full time or are you too busy with your other
career of the music.

Speaker 1 (55:30):
I love dabbling and all of it.

Speaker 3 (55:32):
You know, there's a couple of properties that we're working
on right now, with a couple of little ips that
that we're out shooting and pushing around right now.

Speaker 1 (55:40):
You know, we've been trying.

Speaker 3 (55:41):
To see about doing a reboot of you remember the
shows to come on NBC called Amen.

Speaker 1 (55:49):
Sherman Hemsley.

Speaker 2 (55:50):
Yes, yes, yes, absolutely.

Speaker 3 (55:52):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, because you know, like the first Prince
did the reboot y yeah, and so we've been just
kind of talking about maybe seeing yeah, sitting in that space.
So we all, Yeah, we're just always trying to figure
out different things to just keep having conversations that lift
people up.

Speaker 2 (56:05):
Right. You did a gospel comedy tour with Steve Harvey.
What was that like?

Speaker 1 (56:09):
It was really dope. I did the music.

Speaker 3 (56:10):
Steve and I are really really good friends. Steven our
great great man yo yo man.

Speaker 1 (56:15):
He a real one. Yeah yeah, Steve a real one.

Speaker 2 (56:18):
So would you consider Steve a mentor yours?

Speaker 1 (56:20):
Yes, he is, no doubt. Steve is a mentor and
a hero. He is no doubt.

Speaker 5 (56:26):
What did Steve teach you about you? Because Steve is
a guy, he don't care you talking about it? Yeah yeah, yeah,
He's like, if you ain't got my number, you talking
about me?

Speaker 2 (56:34):
He don't do nothing. Yeah, yeah, do nothing to me
or for me.

Speaker 3 (56:37):
What's amazing is I would say to you, Steve would
probably say more about what I've taught him. Wow, what's
been amazing. It's because Steve. Steve continues to say that
when he was going through his transition, trying to find
faith and trying to find moments in his life, he
said I said to him almost twenty years ago, as
I said to him, Steve, the only difference between you

(56:57):
and my world is that in my world we wear
a mask.

Speaker 2 (57:00):
Ask.

Speaker 3 (57:01):
That's the only thing is we wear a mask and
then after Sunday would take the mask off.

Speaker 2 (57:04):
Rob.

Speaker 1 (57:05):
It's the only difference.

Speaker 2 (57:08):
Mm hmm. So when you go on tours, So what's
a tour like.

Speaker 3 (57:14):
You know, it's it's not like what you would think
of other tours, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (57:18):
You know, there there are no girls in the lobbies. None, Okay,
sister Johnson, them not in the lobby.

Speaker 2 (57:25):
Aunties with tambourines, with them stockings.

Speaker 1 (57:35):
He has got the little, got the little.

Speaker 2 (57:38):
You have to look the boys.

Speaker 3 (57:41):
Nothing sexy about them boys. Now there's no aunties in
the lobby now, man. You know, And and you know,
the kind of tours that I love to curate is
we try to create like rock star tours, like people come,
it's you know, it's lights and it's screams and it's
boom boom of boom, and then we and then we're
gonna give you that Jesus. So you know, we we

(58:02):
try to be wild and bananas in the production and
presentation and so you know, it is like it is
in any situation. You know, we are, we're hitting the stage,
we're hitting the streets, production crew to us meet and
greets and you know, but but but we are seeing people, man,
that just want to be reminded that in these crazy times, man,
that God got them any love them.

Speaker 1 (58:22):
That's all we're trying.

Speaker 3 (58:23):
To do, Like like like like like my whole mission
in life. I just want to remind you God love
you and he got you.

Speaker 2 (58:29):
Right.

Speaker 1 (58:30):
That's it, that's it, that's it.

Speaker 3 (58:32):
Once you get closer to God, the stuff about your
life that needs to change.

Speaker 1 (58:36):
I trust God with you, you.

Speaker 3 (58:38):
His and I trust God to deconstruct and tare down
the things in you that he needs to make a
better youth.

Speaker 1 (58:44):
That ain't my job to police your process, right, Like can't?

Speaker 2 (58:52):
What did I just say?

Speaker 1 (58:53):
That's not my job to police your process?

Speaker 2 (58:58):
Just lett that you're not black folk? Do want say something?

Speaker 1 (59:02):
Got a little some of them is like just let
that thing.

Speaker 2 (59:06):
Let let's sit with that.

Speaker 5 (59:08):
Where did you learn your stat I saw that you
went to the uh you pulled the USh on what
I do?

Speaker 2 (59:15):
You went naughty? You know what you did? I went
naughty win the audience.

Speaker 1 (59:20):
And what I do?

Speaker 2 (59:21):
I mean you have a stage presence. I mean in
the church. You can't have really doing something nasty. How
you say nasty?

Speaker 1 (59:28):
It was borderline nasty?

Speaker 2 (59:30):
Close?

Speaker 1 (59:30):
What was I doing? Like I rating?

Speaker 2 (59:34):
That was me?

Speaker 1 (59:35):
That was me?

Speaker 2 (59:35):
Yeah, that was what I mean.

Speaker 1 (59:37):
And I'm and you know, and I don't be trying
to man, I'm just Dann. But you know what though,
for a.

Speaker 3 (59:42):
Lot of people that may criticize and stuff I do,
they need to go to church in Africa. They need
to go to church in Brazil. I mean we are
and we are people that move.

Speaker 1 (59:54):
Brother.

Speaker 3 (59:54):
I mentioned some churches in Africa that baby them, sisters move,
they move baby. First time I went to Brazil and
I took my band with me because Brazil has.

Speaker 2 (01:00:09):
Carl Ball and they have yet very nice yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:11):
Very nice looking sisters.

Speaker 3 (01:00:13):
Yeah, okay, nice sisters in Christ Okay, really well, they
have beautiful women.

Speaker 2 (01:00:19):
Yeah, they do not in Brazilians.

Speaker 1 (01:00:20):
Yes, sir.

Speaker 3 (01:00:22):
So they come to church and they worshiping God, but
they know I'm looking for a nice God. Being Wolfandillia,
I got quite a few.

Speaker 1 (01:00:30):
I can introduce you to Brazil.

Speaker 3 (01:00:32):
Great in America, I would look at you out of collection.

Speaker 5 (01:00:41):
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