August 24, 2023 • 58 mins
New Orleans Saints tight end Foster Moreau reunites with Darren after they both left the Las Vegas Raiders in the offseason. Foster admits why he hasn't come on the podcast before now and how his perspective has shifted. When Foster began exploring free agency, he was focused on the frustrating tight end market, but that all changed when his visit to the Saints uncovered a rare form of Hodgkin's lymphoma. Foster walks Darren and Donny through every painful and revelatory detail, and Darren recalls the moment Foster told him about his diagnosis. Donny and Foster also give Darren his flowers for being such a steadying presence in their lives. Now in remission, Foster looks ahead and unpacks his complicated emotions around suiting up for his hometown team.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Comeback Stories is a production of Inflection Network and iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome back, everyone to another episode of Comeback Stories. My
name is Darren Waller. May know me as a tight
end for the New York Giants. I'm joined here by
my co host, my friend, my brother, Donnie. Donnie, how
you doing today.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Man, I'm doing well.
Speaker 4 (00:22):
Man.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
It's always a great day when we get to drop
in and have some deep, meaningful conversations.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Yes, sir, I'm so excited about this guest that we
have here today. This is my running mate. This was
my fellow tight end and teammate with the Raiders for
the better part of four years, a guy that I
love and enjoy and respect so much on so many
different levels. We got my guy, my friend New York
(00:51):
Saints tight end, mister Foster Moreau Foster. Welcome to the show, brother.
Speaker 4 (00:55):
Darren, Donnie, thanks for having me on. I'm excited to
be here. I'll look forward to this tremendously certainly.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Oh yeah, this is been a while in the making.
I've been trying to poke this bear a long time,
trying to get him on the show. And for some
context for anybody that's listening, this is this man me
and him in meetings, countless meetings, just cutting up in
meetings like I'm somebody, I'm that kid that I had
(01:26):
all a's in school growing up, but my conduct in
my grade, in grades in class I was a lot
of unsatisfactory, a lot of like calls home from the
parents and the principle. So I get distracted very easily.
But just be just engaging with this guy, like jokes, laughing,
(01:46):
but also being serious and being detailed in our craft.
Just a lot of fun on the day to day
and made showing up to work a lot of fun
and just real goofy. But today we're going to dive
into a lot of this man's story, and I want
to start Foster. What was Could you describe what life
was like growing up for you, whether it be just
(02:06):
a physical environment, what it was like going on inside
your head, inside your heart, like, describe what your childhood
was like.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
Sure, my childhood, I'd say was was fairly standard. I
had both of my parents in my life for for
quite some time, and I was I was lucky to
be to be able to say, like say something like that,
you know, I was. I always just loved growing up
around sports. I was I was blessed to be fairly
(02:36):
gifted playing most of the things that I like to engage.
But that's that's more or less where I kind of
found my purpose and my passion and most of my vision.
I'd enjoyed football, basketball, track and field from time to time, but.
Speaker 5 (02:52):
This swimming was swimming was awful.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
But that's where I started to build discipline and I
started to learn most of my my life lessons that
I still carry today, probably through you know, elementary school
sports or on the on the playground or whatever that was.
Speaker 5 (03:11):
But for me.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
I I grew up mostly with most of those lessons
being taught from my mom. From an athletics background. I
learned a lot from her, just in terms of you know,
time management and taking things serious, being true to your
word in a way. And my dad more taught me
(03:33):
kind of how to live life outside of the lines
in a certain way, if that makes sense, just the
dos and don'ts of manhood.
Speaker 5 (03:44):
And how to be the right man when.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
No one's watching, and to live my life for the
greater glory of God at my arm day. Glory is
the Latin translation for that, But that was that was
most of my childhood was shared through those two and
my three sisters.
Speaker 5 (04:04):
It was a it was a special time growing up
for me. Certainly.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
I've gotten the chance to meet all the extended members
of your family just by being your teammate and your friend,
and it's so many good people, so many different personalities.
I've wondered, was with your your parents separating, was that
like a painful experience for you? Like what how did
(04:29):
that maybe affect you internally in ways and maybe force
you to look at life or the world differently.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
Yeah, and that's a great question, Darren. For me, like
many people, I thought that I could harbor some level
of control over it, and I thought I could help
right when in reality it wasn't my battle. I just
(04:57):
I remember going back and forth. We're sitting at the
kitchen table with my mom, dad, three sisters, and we're trying.
Speaker 5 (05:02):
To we're fighting through it.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
I'm like, guys, hand like you could come together through
Christ who strengthens you.
Speaker 5 (05:08):
You could, you could do it. But obviously it was
it was a bit of a.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
I wouldn't call it childish, but it was definitely I
was a little naive to believe that I could bring
them back together. As much as I truly believed, And
from there I started to learn my parents more as
people than as mom and Dad, which I thought gave
me an interesting perspective into growing and learning a little
(05:41):
bit more about the real world than maybe I would
have liked. But it definitely set me with a different perspective,
getting to know them as Tricia and Lyle more than
mom and Dad. I'm I am grateful for that experience,
regardless of what anyone says, and of course I'd still
(06:01):
love for them to be together, but now I have
extended family, and you know, the more the merrier in
certain ways, I'm.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Really fascinated by that, because, well, how old were you
when your parents got divorced.
Speaker 5 (06:13):
I believe I was fourteen years old.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
I think, okay, I was seven, And I always said
and I think it was just a way of really
never processing it. But I always would tell people like
they always made the best out of a bad what
could have been a bad situation, because my parents did
always make it about the kids. And I've coached and
(06:37):
worked through divorce and change with a lot of people,
and oftentimes when they make it about themselves, it's when
the kids actually suffer. But later on in life, after
doing a lot more therapy and healing, I think I
really downplayed the significance of the divorce, and even though
they're cordial and they really did make the best out
(06:59):
of it, just the separation from my mom. I lived
with my dad. I mean I would see my mom
a couple times a week, but just that alone, especially
be the young being the youngest of four and kind
of being a mama's boy, that that that probably had
way bigger of an effect than I had realized at.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
The time, and for years later, Yeah, certainly, I think
I had kind of start to I started to come
into into knowing both of those people and and kind
of developing my own personality and identity, even though you know,
it was far off from where I am today. I
(07:41):
was starting to get to that age that those those
close to teenage years where you start to believe that
you know, you know everything, you're smarter than just about everyone, uh,
and you have you have the rest of your life
ahead of you, when in actuality, those are just the
most important building blocks for your development into a person
with character whose trust and faith carry them through life. Yeah,
(08:07):
for me, I kind of thought better of it, and
for years I came to learn. Like I said, I
came to learn those people probably in a similar way
that you did.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Man, we're all just doing the best we can with
what we have. And you talked about being maybe too
smart for your own good. Something people may not know
is I called Foster coach Foster a lot in meetings
and practice situations because it was really from this place
of Honestly, I never probably vocalized as much, but it
(08:44):
was a place of respect from the way that your
mind approached the game and the way that you tried
to inspire other people to like a standard of excellence.
And I want to like, where did that come from?
Was that always something that just kind of came naturally
to you as a kid, Like how did that passion?
And just like the different type of football mind that
(09:05):
you have developed as a kid.
Speaker 4 (09:09):
Let me ask you this, Darren and you Donnie as well.
Are there ever any times where you were a kid
and you remember sitting in class and your teacher would
roll would roll like a TV screen in and would
put on a movie for you right before Christmas break
or summer vacation, Like, was there ever a time where,
and specifically during one of those times where she'd roll
(09:32):
it in and it was kind of a niche movie
that you were sure twenty nine of your other thirty
classmates hadn't seen, but you were the one kid who
had seen it. I remember feeling like that sometimes when
I was younger, and I was like, oh, wait a minute,
what what is this? This is Oh, I know this movie,
(09:55):
and then all of a sudden, it would fill me
with a rush of like, oh, there's a really good part,
there's really good parts coming up. I've already seen it.
I don't, And I don't know what that was when
I was young. Maybe I just I felt like I
maybe wanted some type of attention or wanted to be
acknowledged as someone who had already seen it. I don't
know what filled me with doing that, but it sort
(10:17):
of started to creep its way into other parts of
my life. But from there someone had identified that in me.
One of my strength coaches back at LSU, SAME's Ben Anakione,
and he identified that that was something that I always did,
was I would help in coaching where I could, and
(10:39):
I'd always take a step back where I didn't know,
and he always he said he really appreciated that, and
I to me. I was flabbergasted. I had no idea
I would do it, but it kind of became a
main stay. And so when it became you and I
that year in twenty nineteen, the mission and the goal
(11:02):
was always to have the best room that we could.
So it became an ownership of making sure that everyone
was on the same page right, And so it always
helped me too, knowing that if you're if you're, if
(11:22):
I know what you're doing, then I know that you're
going to know what I'm doing. And if I could
okay with you at the line, like hey, you got
the shallow here and I'm going to try to get
Zay Jones open on the on the quick whip out route,
Like if I could say that and I could walk
up to the line, I know we're going to be
successful on the play regardless. And that was what was
(11:42):
going to make us the best room. It wasn't about
you know, you guys all as it was necessarily me
being in the right place too.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
So when you guys, when you guys both jumped on
screen when we started the podcast, the smile on each
of your faces when you just saw each other's faces,
I mean, it was hopefully you're watching this on video.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
And caught that.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
But could you guys just talk about your bond and
what makes it so special? I mean, there's an undeniable connection.
I've seen you guys together in the flesh, but just
you know, even in those first few moments when we
started this podcast, you could you could feel it. Where
does that come from? And what's it rooted in?
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Okay, so let me give some context. I remember twenty nineteen,
Frank Smith was our tight end coach who was also
a groomsman in my wedding. As you know, Donnie, he's
the offensive coordinator for the Miami Dolphins now, but he
was our guy. And this was when Fosterer was in
the draft. He's going to be a rookie. And Frank
comes to me in and he's like, man, like, I'm
(12:46):
trying to like build this room. They want to go
in a younger direction, and I'm thinking of a guy
that will like compliment you greatly. I have two guys
in mind, but I think there's one that you know.
I don't even know if they're really sold on him upstairs,
but I just know that he's a guy that would
bring him to this room and it's just going to
be pert and uh and it's and it's Foster. And
(13:07):
we bring Foster in and it's just like we're kind
of like if you look at us, like on paper,
maybe we're like two very different people, you know. Like
he's walking in the room like he's commanding the room.
Like like like I said, I call you coach Foster
because he's vocal. He's not afraid. When he knows something,
he's he's gonna speak on it. And some people will
maybe like, oh, this guy is like a little loud
(13:29):
for a rookie. Don't you think like he's a little
over the top. But but I never really viewed I
was never really on board with like the making rookies
feel like they're just like the little the little guy,
you know. I'm more so like let them be, let
them know. And I feel like if you kind of
let them, I think feel like they're a part of
(13:49):
it'll help them with their growth and their development. More so,
I'm like, let me, let let this guy be. And
it's like he's the vocal. I'm more of like a
reserved guy until I'm around people that I feel safe
around them. I'm just like a complete goofball. But I
feel like, just like maybe as a case of opposite
to tract, but I mean we ended up like finding
light ways to make We made music together. We've made
(14:10):
multiple tracks together. He came to record at my house,
like we're just we find out we're just into a
lot of the similar things. But I feel like it
was coming in mentally with not a lot of ego.
I feel like we can daggle bit more into Foster's journey,
but his journey in mind, I think coming through college
were a little bit similar, whereas we weren't guys that
were just like completely glamorized or these megastars. So there
(14:36):
was like a humility built in kind of through our
journey where people were kind of like, we don't know
about They definitely didn't know about me, like and I
kind of earned that at that point in my career,
and people were kind of like Foster like he's okay,
Like he's physical, Like we know we'll get from him
in the in the in the run game. And it's
like we we knew that we were more than what
(14:57):
we were kind of being sold as, but we knew
that it was going to take work to get there,
and just being on honest and going about the craft
the right way. And I feel like there was mutual
respect from the beginning, wanting to enjoy each and every day,
each and every moment together and then just going out
and like Foster said, like trying to be the best
(15:18):
group we could possibly be. And that started happening quickly.
Like we were in running plays at three tied end
sets that a lot of teams ain't ain't ain't doing
and uh, and Foster was carving out a big time
role for himself and was like our red zone threat
and like like basically our guy that was like putting
(15:40):
the ball in the end zone like and it was
just really cool to see. And I'm glad that I
was able to do some work in my heart to
that point to actually be genuinely happy to see him
succeed and not have like any type of envy and
we could just succeed alongside each other and see the
greatness in him develop and not be bothered by it.
(16:03):
That's what I think made it more fun. And I
don't know if I went too far on that and
didn't allow the room for him to share.
Speaker 4 (16:08):
It all kind of comes back to Frank for me
as I came in. He kind of laid it out
for me in black and white, and I'll give him credit,
he didn't pull any punches. He said, look, the guy
that you're coming in to replace or kind of make
(16:32):
the room younger. The guy's name was Lee Smith. He's
a career exceptional in line, in line tight end, excelled
in pass blocking and run game schematics. He was a
really good player. And so when I got there, basically
what I was told was I'm here in I'm here
(16:52):
to further my career and you know, find development and
definitely grow from the player I was at LSU. But
really it was I was there to protect Darren and
do you know a lot of the jobs that he
could do, But if I did those jobs well, then.
Speaker 5 (17:15):
He could exceed in other fields.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
And it showed from I think it might have been
the first play of the season, or maybe the second play.
Darren had had a thunder route on the outside on
the left and he just converted it because it was
press and went up and lost a guy. And I'm
over there trying my my absolute best not to get
baptized in.
Speaker 5 (17:38):
Fire by von Miller and Bradley Jebb.
Speaker 4 (17:42):
And for me, I said, that's this is it. This
is exactly what it was supposed to be. And the
more I get on the field, the more opportunities I'll
find myself getting into. So being a being a protector
for Darren was not all it's cracked up to be.
(18:04):
Most of the time, I would just try to have
a conversation with him as we were walking in so
he didn't have to sign as many autographs because he
was really starting to become a household name, especially in
the Bay Area, and it gave me a sense of purpose,
especially for a guy who was so well well thought
out and well organized, and he knew who he was.
(18:28):
But I didn't know Darren at all, really, I just
I knew about his story, I knew about his addiction,
and I knew he was working his way into becoming
the man he is today, the man that he always
wanted to be. So for me, I was trying to
help him get there in any way I could. And
you know, I found I found my flock tending to
(18:50):
someone else's field in a way that was that was
what I was trying to do, and with Darren, he
made it.
Speaker 5 (18:56):
He made it so easy and he was.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
He had a quiet leadership role that I could be
as loud as I want, but I'll never command as
much rep acts as he does.
Speaker 5 (19:06):
Especially for me.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Wow, what was it like having Darren in a as
a leader, following his lead, but also just doing things
so different than the majority of the NFL in so
many different areas of life on and off the field.
What was that like? Just kind of having that that
(19:28):
mirror and model.
Speaker 4 (19:29):
I have always said and will always say, and Darren
will deny it till he till the day he dies.
But the the listeners on this on this podcast know
better than me or better than most, that he's commanded
with a gift of When he speaks, it needs to
(19:49):
be addressed. He speaks almost with a with a tongue
of fire. He speaks with the Holy Spirit. I've said
that for a long time. I don't ever. I don't
see a day where I won't. He's he's got a gift,
and he's got a command, and he's got a conviction
to tell his story and change lives. Telling that story
(20:11):
personally through my recent diagnosis. I didn't really want to
make it public. I don't want to make it known.
I kind of just wanted to go deal with it
and then come back and be who I was. But
my mom, my girl, a couple and a couple of
my close friends told me, no, this is a story
(20:34):
that you need to take command of and try to
affect other people's lives through your dealing of it. And
most most everyone would think woe is me to think
I could change someone else's life just through my story.
But we're on the way there, and anyone who I
(20:56):
could positively affect I would be remiss if I didn't.
The first person, then the first face that pops in
my head would be mister Big drink himself, Darren Wallers.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
So for the listeners that aren't familiar, what have the
last six months looked like for you leading up to
today and what exactly are you referring to?
Speaker 4 (21:23):
Back in March March, I believe it was March twenty
third I was diagnosed with Hodgkins lymphoma. I was going
on a free agency visit down in my hometown of
New Orleans, and I found a doctor that was giving
my physical names, Doctor John Amos. He's the team doctor
for the Saints. He goes and he's going to give
(21:48):
me a basically just a routine physical checkup, one that
you would get at any any doctor's appointment. The first
thing he touches right here is my my left my
left claviical and my left lymph node right here.
Speaker 5 (22:06):
To where basically he feels he feels a mass. And
we go.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
Through the tests, the hoops and the bounds. We do
two different biopsies trying to determine what all it is.
But it's certainly it's certainly not just some run of
the milk growth. It's I'm definitely not just coming down
with a little bit of a cold and I have
an I have an inflamed lymph Note I wound up
having Hodgkins lymphoma with the specific cell type of nodular
(22:35):
lymphatic predominant Hodgkins lymphoma, which basically meant that my journey
was going to be different than anyone else's because it's
a more rare form of It's a rare, more rare
form of Hodgkins. From there, we ran more tests and
we wanted to make sure it was this rare form
(22:55):
because ultimately the treatment methods are completely different from what
you would find in a normal Hodgkins patient. So after
we did that secondary biopsy, we found out it was
the NLPHL form of Hodgkins, that that rare strand of
cell type.
Speaker 5 (23:13):
And I was set up to do.
Speaker 4 (23:17):
About a month and month and a half of treatments
that I completed down here in New Orleans, surrounded by
family in the the cancer center of the of the
Benson Cancer Institute on the fifth floor over right here
(23:37):
in my hometown, which was you know, it was pretty
special for me just being about twelve minutes away from
a place that was literally saving my life, and in
twelve minutes the other direction was the doctor who had
who had saved it because unbeknownst to me and unbeknownst
(23:57):
to the doctor from the visit that I was on
the day before I had a I had another physical
less than sixteen hours before that, and that doctor found nothing,
no no impurities, no gross and I was just I
was grateful that my agent set me down here and
(24:21):
he said it'd be good, it's what you want to do,
and he I guess we'll never know how right he
really was, because I'm pretty blessed.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
There's so many layers to this. I remember when you
first called me, and I'm listening and taking it all
in and I'm just like I don't know how to
react to this right now, and and I'm going to
get back to you and how you were on that
call in a second. But when I got off the phone,
(24:55):
I was like, man, for years, I've seen this man
do things on a daily basis to where I'm like,
I know this man is not only like a starting
tied end in the NFL, but a man that could
like be that that piece, that guy on on a
(25:18):
team for years to come, somebody that can be like
this is this is the this is our guy. I've
seen that from you on a daily basis, and the
opportunities that you've been given didn't always match what I
knew as truth. And for you to have an opportunity
and free agency to go somewhere and to have a
(25:41):
new start and a new opportunity to be able to
showcase your skills in a better in a different way,
to have this happen, I was like, man, like, this
is just like not only a lot, but it's just
like it's a whole like spiritual experience in a way.
It's like nothing is guaranteed, you know what I'm saying,
(26:04):
Like this is something that you've put in the work for.
You've and not only been like I can't wait to
get my shot, but you've served teammates, served coaches, served
the Raiders organization, the whole way in a just in
the highest class and to get to this opportunity and
in an instant, in a flash, it's like, oh, this
(26:25):
is like taking away, this is no longer, this may
no longer be a thing. But the calmness of your
voice on that phone call is something that I will
never forget. And I'm just like, how can somebody be
this calm with all this Like, because I know you
were waiting for this moment, waiting for this opportunity, but
you were calm, Like what does that? Can you explain
(26:50):
to the people that are listening, because a lot of
people may just be overflown with anger, overtaken with resentment,
or so many different kinds of emotions, Like one, what
were you what were you feeling at that time? What
were the emotions you were battling with? But can you
speak to that calm because it's something that hit me
as your friend, and it's something that I'll never forget.
Speaker 4 (27:12):
Sure, And not to take away from the seriousness with
a little bit of levity, but that's kind of my thing.
Speaker 5 (27:22):
I was already.
Speaker 4 (27:24):
I was already mad as hell that the entire, the
entire tight end class of free agents, we were not
going to get the numbers we wanted. It wasn't even
going to be close. That was the reasons I was
taking these visits. That was that was the intention. Was like, Hey,
get in front of these guys. They're going to love you,
(27:45):
and then they might give us an extra they might
give us some change on the back end because they
like you that much and now that they've seen you,
they want you. I thought that was a smart strategy,
and I said, okay, let's go with that. And when
I just I saw all the rest of the guys
and their numbers were so low, and I'm like, ah,
this isn't what This isn't what you know, Hayden Hurst,
(28:08):
this isn't what he's worth, you know, Dalton Schultz, this
isn't what he's worth. Right, But these guys are taking
one year deals because the tight end class in the
draft was pretty astounding, a bunch of really high grades
and a bunch of really good players. So I was like, okay,
you know, I'm getting on these flights. I'm tired, I'm anxious,
this is this sucks, but whatever, this is what we're
(28:31):
doing and this is this is what this life is.
And in a second, when that doctor said Hodgkins lymphoma,
every bit of anxiety that I had about free agency,
that I had about ball, that I had about my
public image, of what people thought that I was worth,
or however much my dad sent me that this guy
(28:54):
got or this guy got, all that disappeared and it
was it just melted off of me and none of
it mattered anymore. And I know that's a weird thing
to say, but to me, it didn't. I could only
(29:14):
think about getting this this, this this cancerous lymph node
out of my body, get it healed, get fixed. Obviously
I went through denial initially, but the doctor seemed sincere,
and he seemed knowledgeable, and he knows what he's talking about.
And if you know me, I might think I have
(29:34):
a medical degree, but in truth, I never do, and
I might I probably never will. But we we went
and we talked to the radiologist. I was scared, I
was nervous, and at that point I just didn't want
the information getting leaked out.
Speaker 5 (29:52):
To anyone.
Speaker 4 (29:53):
I didn't want anyone that I know and love to
get this information from a way that wasn't my words
to them. So I made sure I cut down a
list of people I wanted to tell how I wanted
to tell them, and I didn't want anyone to freak
(30:16):
out because I didn't know any of the information yet.
The doctor said, hey, it's probably high nineties percent that
it is that it is some form of cancer, probably Hodgkins,
And at that point I just wanted to make sure
the people that I knew kind of got to find
out before it would hit you know, a tweet by
(30:39):
Adam Schefter or by anyone, right.
Speaker 5 (30:44):
And I think we handled that well.
Speaker 4 (30:47):
I got to tell my parents, my girl, my best
friends in the world, and at that point I was
okay with starting treatment from that Sunday if I wanted to,
and I didn't have to tell anyone else, but that
point it was it was time for me to share
my story.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Who was helping you, guiding you through that process and
kind of the decision making process of who to tell
did you have a was it the doctor or was
there somebody else in your life or in your corner
at the time.
Speaker 4 (31:18):
I would run everything by my mom. Every decision I
would make, I would say, oh, you know, I had
my mom my dad. They were in the same house
for the first for the first time in a long time,
and I had said, Hey, what do you think about
telling Yeah, telling so and so, Like I mean, do
you think they need to know? And I'm like, yeah,
I think so. I think I think that would And honestly,
(31:40):
it was almost it was therapeutic for me in a
way that I would that I got to talk to
people that I wanted to talk to.
Speaker 5 (31:52):
You know, It's it's such a hard it's such a
hard thing.
Speaker 4 (31:56):
Because one of my best friends in the world, Danny Etlink,
he was on his bachelor trip and I was supposed
to be on it, but he's like, hey, handle your
free agency stuff, Like I get it. It's not a
big deal, Like I'm going to see you before then,
I'm going to see you at the wedding. Don't worry
about it. But to call him as he's on his
bachelor trip like just one of the one of the
(32:19):
times that you always remember. And I didn't want to
tell him, but I put myself in his shoes and
I would definitely want to know, same with you, same
with Alec and Gold, same with Hunter, Renfro, Max Crosby,
A couple of guys, old teammates, old great friends, and
(32:42):
from there I just kind of like put a cap
on it. I didn't tell most of my family members.
I told my mom and my dad obviously, and my
sisters had no idea. But I got him on a
group FaceTime call and they sobbed and we laughed, and
you know, I would make jokes about it to try
(33:04):
to to try to alleviate some of the stress that
they were probably feeling. But from from there it was
I knew it was going to be a battle. It
was just it was important for me to get it
out on my own terms.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
Can you take us through like some of the what
the anything that the cancer may have caused? Was it
did you feel like a lack of energy? Was it fatigue?
Speaker 5 (33:29):
Like?
Speaker 2 (33:29):
Can you take us through like some of this the
physical effects of.
Speaker 5 (33:33):
It, Darren?
Speaker 4 (33:34):
Mostly, the only physical effects I felt were from the
benadrill that they that they gave us, And that's and
that's God's honest truth. It was a completely different My
cancer was rare because it doesn't require chemotherapy or radiation.
(33:56):
I got extremely lucky. I felt the way of the
world bearing down on me. You know, after I got
it out, I was getting texts and calls and you know,
a lot of a lot of love and a lot
of heart and a lot of prayer was being sent
my way. And I felt probably about ten days after
(34:16):
the initial diagnosis, I really started to kind of settle
into a Oh man, this is really going to suck.
This is going to be bad. I'm going to be trained.
I'm not going to be myself. And from there I
got a call from my my oncologist. His name is
doctor Carter Davis. He works over there at the Benson
(34:37):
Cancer Center with Ashner, and he told me, he said,
look like it appears that you might have a rare
cell type. And so of course when you hear rare cancer,
your brain doesn't go to oh nice, that's great.
Speaker 5 (34:56):
Cool.
Speaker 4 (34:59):
No, but he said, you know, it actually might work
out in your favor and you might not miss as
much time from the from the football as you might think.
And I said, okay, well, the football field is that's
a bit on the back. That's on the back is
to burners talk to me about my health. And he's like, okay, Well,
so this form of this form of Hotchin's lymphoma is
(35:20):
not nearly as aggressive, it doesn't grow nearly as fast,
and you might have had it for a lot longer
than you think. Like, okay, that's different, he goes. The
reason that you didn't have any side effects is most
most cancers leave side effects because it's your body's natural
response to what the cancer is doing. Right, Like it's
(35:41):
you're sweating in your sleep. It's it's basically taking all
the sugar that you put into your body, and it's
basically accepting it as its own and growing off of that.
So you might feel like you'll feel tired, you'll go
and you'll you'll lose weight rapidly because your body's not
able to process things the right way. But in my case,
I had just been dealing with it for a long
(36:03):
time without really knowing and kind of just putting natural
defenses up against it.
Speaker 5 (36:09):
But when he told me.
Speaker 4 (36:10):
That, he said, we'd like to do a second we'd
like to get the tissues from the initial biopsy.
Speaker 5 (36:15):
Mind you, they did a biopsy on site that day.
Speaker 4 (36:19):
Within an hour, within thirty minutes of them telling me
I probably had Hodgkins. We were taking tissue samples at
the hospital, like at six forty five in the morning,
and it was not a licensed it was not a
licensed surgeon. It was a radiologist who had cut me
open and took tissue samples out of my shoulder. It
(36:43):
was I mean, I was and I'm just I'm just
I'm shocked in a way that I just I couldn't
I couldn't really do anything other than just take what
they're giving me. And I'm like, oh boy, I'm gonna
have to call Zach Taylor up with Cincinnati and say, hey, man,
like it's not going to work out. It's not gonna uh.
But you know, it was the what I feel from it, right,
(37:10):
what I felt through the entire process. To get back
onto onto the topic, was I felt I felt a
lot of mental stress, angst, a lot of things that
were within my control, but the stress that I felt
were from the things that I couldn't control, to where
I had no idea whether this retusamad medicine wasn't going
(37:32):
to work as well as a chemotherapy might or radiation could.
I also downplayed my diagnosis a lot because I knew
that I wasn't going to have to go through a
lot of the hard things that most other cancer patients
do because for some reason, you know, no pain, no
(37:52):
gain in my brain. But it's just I talked to
I talked to a few different survivors from different cancers.
Speaker 5 (38:07):
And that was always.
Speaker 4 (38:08):
That was always the message that they would leave me
with is, Hey, everyone has a different path, Everyone has
a different journey. Just because yours didn't hurt as bad
makes it doesn't make it any less impactful. It doesn't
make it any less difficult. It's just your story, and
it's it's different. And that I could still see the
(38:29):
face of the woman. Her name was Sarah. I could
still see she was a breast cancer survivor. I could
still see her face. I know exactly how she said it,
and it meant It meant a lot to me. It
gave me more purpose than what I realized I had
already had.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
I'm starting to hear the turnaround, but I'm curious before
you start to tell more of the comeback part of
this story. Was there like a lowest point or like
the darkest place that your mind went, or emotion went
like that kind of rock bottom emotionally, whether it was
around victim is ation or just stories you were telling yourselves.
(39:07):
So what was the darkest point and then what was
the turnaround? What shifted everything for you?
Speaker 4 (39:13):
There's a couple of different low points, but the I
felt fairly helpless after I had gotten after I had
gotten the first scan back, they kind of they kind
of they gave me the information, and I was I
was waiting to do I was waiting to do a
(39:33):
pet scan where they shoot you up with radioactive sugar tracers. Basically,
they go in and they see where the cancer is.
And you're sitting by yourself in a dark trailer. You're
isolated behind a really heavy door because you got you
(39:55):
got radiation literally flowing through your body, radioactive material. And
you know, I I'm blessed to play a game for
a living that pays me handsomely for something I would
gladly do for free with my buddies in a backyard
(40:15):
at any point in time for the rest of my life.
I love playing this game. I love football, and they
pay me way too much money to do it, and
that's a small little spield, but for me, I got
to the desk and they're like, Okay, here's what this
pet scan costs, would you like to pay it an
(40:36):
hour or later? And I'm like, oh my gosh, what
are you talking about. Insurance doesn't cover that. And it's
like they're talking about the premiums and they're talking about, well, no,
you know, you haven't anything on your rent and I'm like,
oh my gosh, So this is so I'm gonna have
to I have to try to beat cancer.
Speaker 5 (40:55):
I got to pay to beat it.
Speaker 4 (40:57):
All.
Speaker 5 (40:57):
You guys wanted me to do the scan.
Speaker 4 (40:59):
I got to pay for the scan, and then I
got to pay for that biopsy, this second biopsy. And
I'm like, I'm just I had been leading this, you know,
this ignorant lifestyle of not I just had no idea
what all was going on. I was stressed out, I
was worried. I was swiping my card for things. I
didn't even know what was going on. And I'm like,
(41:21):
you know, I'm thankful that I know, I knew that
I could afford it regardless of what it cost. But
it just put me in such a low point of saying,
what would happen if you if you weren't necessarily as
skilled at football? What if you were doing something God
knows what what if? What if you went left instead
(41:42):
of right that one time? And I'm just sitting I'm
sitting there waiting for my turn on the on the
pet scan and I'm just I'm praying, I'm I'm thankful,
but also I'm I'm tearful and I'm worried that, you know,
because at that point I knew I had Hodgkins, I
(42:02):
didn't know how bad it was. I didn't know what
my cell type was, and at this point the machine,
this was a test that I was unfamiliar with.
Speaker 5 (42:10):
I was scared.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
That.
Speaker 4 (42:14):
That was probably my lowest point. I think what I
had alluded to earlier when Carter Davis called me and said, hey,
this thing might work out in your favor and you
might have a chance of a much easier treatment process
than what I'm sure you've.
Speaker 5 (42:33):
Been preparing for.
Speaker 4 (42:37):
That really, honestly mentally from a place of a place
of where I started to feel the way of the
world on me. And I'd been talking to people about
their treatment process and about how tough it was, and
I'm like, well, you know, like it probably depends on
the person. They're like, no, it sucks for everyone. I'm like, Okay,
(43:00):
that's that's okay. Thanks, thank you for your help and
your sincerity.
Speaker 5 (43:08):
But when that happened, I definitely felt a shift and
a bit of a.
Speaker 4 (43:12):
Momentum, and I felt God's hand actively waving over my
life in ways that I really couldn't comprehend. And looking
back on it now, that was that was definitely the
point of transmission.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
This would be a crazy question to ask, but do
you feel grateful in a way for your diagnosis?
Speaker 4 (43:35):
In different ways? Absolutely, Obviously, I'm always going to say
a much happier that it was found when it was,
so for that I am grateful, and you know, I'll
give a small example the guy who found it, John Amos, doctor,
(44:01):
doctor Amos. He was so apologetic through the process of
us walking through the hospital and doing the biopsy, talking
to the radiologist, but he was doing something for the saints.
I was on a free agency visit, last minute thing.
So he rolled out of bed, got into the office,
(44:23):
came to give me a physical. Had it been someone
who was, you know, a little less hands on or
I don't know, maybe someone who might have just might
have just forgot to check that box, I could be
(44:44):
sitting here or anywhere with a camphor like a cancerous
lump still growing in my neck. And I mean, you
know athletes, you know, you know football players. You know
a lot of people, even if they think something might
be wrong, a lot of the times, you know, we'll
(45:09):
just ignore it instead of addressing it, just because it's
easier to just live in ignorance.
Speaker 5 (45:16):
I'm glad he was there that day.
Speaker 3 (45:20):
You know.
Speaker 4 (45:20):
I am grateful that it was found, and I think
I'll be a better man for it, certainly.
Speaker 3 (45:27):
I'm just grateful the way that you are. You've walked
us through these last six months. It's probably less than
six months, but the way that you tell your story,
and it's just captivating, and I have no doubt that
you're going to help so many other people, just like
that doctor who gave you a more optimistic diagnosis, gave
(45:51):
you kind of that glimmer of hope. That was the turnaround.
I mean, that's why Darren and I do this podcast. It's,
you know, for that person that's listening right now that
thinks they're all alone, that nobody understands, whether it's a diagnosis,
if it's an addiction, if it's mental health, and they
can actually hear that somebody else has gone through this,
even though my pain might look a little different than
(46:14):
your pain. You know, this is what connects us all.
But I'm just I'm blown away by how fresh this
still is for you. And one what your perspective is,
but how you tell your story. And I mean, I
think you're going to have some some good options whenever
football is over, for you to have a stage whatever
(46:36):
you want that to look like, to help a shit
ton of people.
Speaker 4 (46:40):
Thank you. You know, I joke with Darren when he
was as he as he so eloquently put it, poke
the bear when you try to get me on the podcast,
I I joke back with him. I say, you know,
like I don't really have anything that I've ever came
back from. You know, I've been I've lived a fairly
(47:04):
I've lived a fairly easy life. I've definitely had some
hiccups along the way, and I've dodged a couple of
bullets here and there.
Speaker 5 (47:12):
I've gotten lucky once or twice, but.
Speaker 4 (47:15):
No real experience that I've had to, you know, stop
my life and start a new path.
Speaker 5 (47:24):
Funny enough, I.
Speaker 4 (47:25):
Was just speaking cancer into my lymph notes, but from
there it was, you know, it's a different it's a
different mentality. Certainly, I'm lucky every day and I'm blessed
that I that I know people like like Darren, like you, Donnie,
(47:48):
like people who I know that. It is fresh in
my mind. But from the moment the diagnosis hit, there
was no option other than victory. There was nothing. There
was nothing else to do. It was just a matter
of time. I go back to my head strength coach
(48:10):
in college. His name's Tommy Moffatt. He's a two time
cancer survivor. I don't remember all that much from college.
I remember plenty of plays, plenty of circumstances, plenty of
fun nights out of the bar. But one thing that
has always and will always stick with me is that
(48:32):
strength coach, Tommy Moffatt, who I respected dearly. He told me,
you don't know how strong you are until strong is
the only option you have.
Speaker 5 (48:46):
I don't.
Speaker 4 (48:46):
I don't think anyone really understood the magnitude of what
he was saying. But coming from someone who would give
us our workouts every day and take ten minutes to
individualize and personalize things for different groups, that he knows
that we're going to have to work on this week,
(49:08):
for him to say something like that. To us, it
just it meant the world. And we might have just
done fifty updowns because three of our guys were late
or missed class, or we just we had to do
punishment runs or whatever that looked like. But you never
know how strong you are until strong is the only
option you have.
Speaker 5 (49:30):
I ted.
Speaker 4 (49:31):
I texted that to him. He texted me back some words.
And certainly experiences like that and people who have been
through it and can give me a little bit of
light in the darkness.
Speaker 5 (49:44):
That's that's what it's all about.
Speaker 2 (49:48):
Man. I can't let you go without asking you in
knowing like the emotions and the joy and what your
heart felt like when you were able to not only
return to practice and return being able to play the
game that you love, but to do it putting on
(50:08):
a helmet of the town, of the streets that you
grew up in, you know, the restaurants and the Marty
Grass and all the crazy things that you crazy folks
do down there. What like, what does that feel like?
Because those kinds of things just don't happen, you know
what I'm saying, Like, like, what does like take us
(50:30):
through that? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (50:31):
I mean in a similar vein how did I get
diagnosed in the same town that my mom is ten
minutes away from the hospital, and I could get my
I can get my initial diagnosis, and I could drive home.
I could drive ten minutes to my house that I've
lived for what feels like my whole life, and hug
(50:54):
my mom, who's probably one of the most important people
in my life, if not the most important, and just
be surrounded by family during in the darkest time that
I had ever experienced. In a similar way, I do
my last treatment on March ninth. I finish it up
(51:16):
three days after my twenty sixth birthday. And I remember
seeing that last that last drop go through the syringe
and I said, Okay, all right, I think I think
that's I think that's all.
Speaker 5 (51:33):
She wrote. I went home.
Speaker 4 (51:39):
I woke up the next morning. I uh, I was
getting a haircut from as Darren knows good and well.
Speaker 5 (51:46):
My haircut.
Speaker 4 (51:46):
My hairstylist is the same woman who gave who gave
gave me life is my mom is Trisha Morrow.
Speaker 5 (51:55):
She's given me a haircut.
Speaker 4 (51:56):
And my my agent calls and he's like, hey, the
Saints offer came through. It's exactly what we thought it was.
How how soon can you be over there to sign it?
Speaker 5 (52:09):
Like I could.
Speaker 4 (52:10):
I just got to get a haircut. It's like, all right,
they'll expect you within the hour, two hours, or whatever
it is. It was a funny day though, because my
little step brother's names William. He was signing his letter
of intent to go play college baseball.
Speaker 5 (52:29):
They just won.
Speaker 4 (52:31):
They just won a state championship with with their baseball team,
and that's where they were going, and so he went
and I had to interrupt my entire signing process so
I can go watch my little step brother on one
of the one of the one of the biggest days
of his life. May teenth was not supposed to be
about me, but you know, he took it on the
(52:54):
chin and we share the day now, which is pretty funny.
Getting back to practice though, was pretty special. And I'd
be lying if I said that there wasn't part of
me that didn't want to be here and deal with
You know, of all the five hundred people that I
probably know in this world, really well, four hundred and
(53:14):
ninety eight of them might be in the stadium every
Sunday when I dress up in the in the black
and gold. I don't know if I really wanted that
pressure or that anxiety. But at the same time, I
thought back to the times of me watching Jeremy Shockey
and Jimmy Graham and Josh Hill and a bunch of
(53:36):
different guys, and I'm like, man, like, oh, I'd kill
for that opportunity, you know, and going to games in
the Dome from when I was very very young. I
had always loved the Saints, and.
Speaker 5 (53:48):
To be here.
Speaker 4 (53:50):
Surrounded by friends and family, and you know, obviously having
Derek here throwing me balls, it's very familiar. I'm very lucky,
I'm very blessed. It's an interesting experience. Certainly, this has
been an honor man.
Speaker 3 (54:08):
I mean, I feel like we could go on and
on and on, and there's so much more of your
comeback still to be written. A couple of things I
want to go back to. You mentioned the word protector,
like you were a Darren's protector, and that really struck
a chord with me because I have felt in other
areas of life that in a sense, I, in my
(54:30):
world have been Darren's protector. And now, mind you, he's
six ' six, full of twisted steel and sex appeals,
so he doesn't necessarily need me like protecting him, protecting
him on the streets, right, but like in other areas
from everything else, the chaos and everything else, trying to
pull him from his center. So, as you said that,
(54:51):
it really it really hit home for me, and I
thank you for taking on that role and seeing that
as a way of being of service and being a
good friend and a teammate and a leader. And then
I just go back to the way that you just
captivated us through a very very fresh story of yours
(55:12):
that happened. I just I'm excited for you and what's possible.
I'm excited for this year. I'm really excited for you
guys to be teammates again playing in the Pro Bowl
at the end of this year. And yeah, it's just yeah,
it's just a it's a gift to have you here, man.
It's been honored to sit back and listen to you.
Speaker 5 (55:29):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (55:30):
It's it's honestly been a blast being here. It shouldn't
have taken us this long, but I'm glad we finally
got it going.
Speaker 5 (55:40):
Yeah, and.
Speaker 4 (55:42):
Darren, plenty of plenty, a lot of twisted steel, but
plenty of sex appeal. Yeah, he's a friend for life.
He's a friend for life, certainly. I'm just I'm happy
that that we're just starting to kind of get to
know each other a little bit a little bit better.
The role, yeah, that that role of protector. I didn't
(56:06):
ever think that that was really something that I could do.
But just being there with him and for him, being
where our feet were every day, that was how I
found my best center certainly. So just you know, being
being a part of him, as you know, he's a
special cat man.
Speaker 2 (56:27):
Thank you, bro, I I was thinking earlier. I was
people always ask me how my off season went, you know,
being with a new team and everything, and like, you know,
everything's great. I'm with a top flight organization. People top
to bottom are just amazing to be with, you know
what I'm saying. But I remember the first time we
came and had meetings and Frank wasn't there, and I
(56:53):
was like, there's gonna be good men that I have
the privilege to be learning from and being around. But
there won't be another Hymn. And I'm going to have
to accept that and and and cherish the memories that
we have and getting back to the Giants, Like, I
(57:14):
love everything about my experience, but there won't be another you, man,
like in the in the room, like just in the
locker room, hanging out, just being a friend, being a guy,
laughing like the things that we laugh about, like and
just you know the way that we went about business, bro,
like there won't there won't be another you. And uh
(57:34):
miss you dearly already. Bro. And I'm grateful that we
got to have this opportunity to talk. Man. I'm so
proud of you, bro. Uh just your strength, your your
your courage, uh and just your overall perspective bro, like
you know you you him. Bro, Just know that thank
my ship. My ship broke off, my shap broke off
(57:56):
my risk.
Speaker 5 (57:58):
I was there. I remember what it did. Yeah, I
remember it was us in the Atlas gym. You know
it was good. Thank you man. That means the word.
Speaker 2 (58:06):
Let me know that for sure.
Speaker 1 (58:08):
Bro.
Speaker 2 (58:08):
So man, Thank you everybody that's tuned in and listened today.
Appreciate you guys. Keep coming back listening to us here
on Comeback Stories. We'll keep coming back for you. You
keep telling people that we keep coming back, and check
us out wherever you get your podcast, check us out
on the Inflection Point YouTube as well, and we will
(58:28):
catch you guys next week.
Speaker 1 (58:32):
Comeback Stories is a production of Inflection Network and iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast,
or wherever you get your podcasts.
Comeback Stories is a production of Inflection Network and iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome back, everyone to another episode of Comeback Stories. My
name is Darren Waller. May know me as a tight
end for the New York Giants. I'm joined here by
my co host, my friend, my brother, Donnie. Donnie, how
you doing today.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Man, I'm doing well.
Speaker 4 (00:22):
Man.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
It's always a great day when we get to drop
in and have some deep, meaningful conversations.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Yes, sir, I'm so excited about this guest that we
have here today. This is my running mate. This was
my fellow tight end and teammate with the Raiders for
the better part of four years, a guy that I
love and enjoy and respect so much on so many
different levels. We got my guy, my friend New York
(00:51):
Saints tight end, mister Foster Moreau Foster. Welcome to the show, brother.
Speaker 4 (00:55):
Darren, Donnie, thanks for having me on. I'm excited to
be here. I'll look forward to this tremendously certainly.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Oh yeah, this is been a while in the making.
I've been trying to poke this bear a long time,
trying to get him on the show. And for some
context for anybody that's listening, this is this man me
and him in meetings, countless meetings, just cutting up in
meetings like I'm somebody, I'm that kid that I had
(01:26):
all a's in school growing up, but my conduct in
my grade, in grades in class I was a lot
of unsatisfactory, a lot of like calls home from the
parents and the principle. So I get distracted very easily.
But just be just engaging with this guy, like jokes, laughing,
(01:46):
but also being serious and being detailed in our craft.
Just a lot of fun on the day to day
and made showing up to work a lot of fun
and just real goofy. But today we're going to dive
into a lot of this man's story, and I want
to start Foster. What was Could you describe what life
was like growing up for you, whether it be just
(02:06):
a physical environment, what it was like going on inside
your head, inside your heart, like, describe what your childhood
was like.
Speaker 4 (02:13):
Sure, my childhood, I'd say was was fairly standard. I
had both of my parents in my life for for
quite some time, and I was I was lucky to
be to be able to say, like say something like that,
you know, I was. I always just loved growing up
around sports. I was I was blessed to be fairly
(02:36):
gifted playing most of the things that I like to engage.
But that's that's more or less where I kind of
found my purpose and my passion and most of my vision.
I'd enjoyed football, basketball, track and field from time to time, but.
Speaker 5 (02:52):
This swimming was swimming was awful.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
But that's where I started to build discipline and I
started to learn most of my my life lessons that
I still carry today, probably through you know, elementary school
sports or on the on the playground or whatever that was.
Speaker 5 (03:11):
But for me.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
I I grew up mostly with most of those lessons
being taught from my mom. From an athletics background. I
learned a lot from her, just in terms of you know,
time management and taking things serious, being true to your
word in a way. And my dad more taught me
(03:33):
kind of how to live life outside of the lines
in a certain way, if that makes sense, just the
dos and don'ts of manhood.
Speaker 5 (03:44):
And how to be the right man when.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
No one's watching, and to live my life for the
greater glory of God at my arm day. Glory is
the Latin translation for that, But that was that was
most of my childhood was shared through those two and
my three sisters.
Speaker 5 (04:04):
It was a it was a special time growing up
for me. Certainly.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
I've gotten the chance to meet all the extended members
of your family just by being your teammate and your friend,
and it's so many good people, so many different personalities.
I've wondered, was with your your parents separating, was that
like a painful experience for you? Like what how did
(04:29):
that maybe affect you internally in ways and maybe force
you to look at life or the world differently.
Speaker 4 (04:35):
Yeah, and that's a great question, Darren. For me, like
many people, I thought that I could harbor some level
of control over it, and I thought I could help
right when in reality it wasn't my battle. I just
(04:57):
I remember going back and forth. We're sitting at the
kitchen table with my mom, dad, three sisters, and we're trying.
Speaker 5 (05:02):
To we're fighting through it.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
I'm like, guys, hand like you could come together through
Christ who strengthens you.
Speaker 5 (05:08):
You could, you could do it. But obviously it was
it was a bit of a.
Speaker 4 (05:15):
I wouldn't call it childish, but it was definitely I
was a little naive to believe that I could bring
them back together. As much as I truly believed, And
from there I started to learn my parents more as
people than as mom and Dad, which I thought gave
me an interesting perspective into growing and learning a little
(05:41):
bit more about the real world than maybe I would
have liked. But it definitely set me with a different perspective,
getting to know them as Tricia and Lyle more than
mom and Dad. I'm I am grateful for that experience,
regardless of what anyone says, and of course I'd still
(06:01):
love for them to be together, but now I have
extended family, and you know, the more the merrier in
certain ways, I'm.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Really fascinated by that, because, well, how old were you
when your parents got divorced.
Speaker 5 (06:13):
I believe I was fourteen years old.
Speaker 3 (06:16):
I think, okay, I was seven, And I always said
and I think it was just a way of really
never processing it. But I always would tell people like
they always made the best out of a bad what
could have been a bad situation, because my parents did
always make it about the kids. And I've coached and
(06:37):
worked through divorce and change with a lot of people,
and oftentimes when they make it about themselves, it's when
the kids actually suffer. But later on in life, after
doing a lot more therapy and healing, I think I
really downplayed the significance of the divorce, and even though
they're cordial and they really did make the best out
(06:59):
of it, just the separation from my mom. I lived
with my dad. I mean I would see my mom
a couple times a week, but just that alone, especially
be the young being the youngest of four and kind
of being a mama's boy, that that that probably had
way bigger of an effect than I had realized at.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
The time, and for years later, Yeah, certainly, I think
I had kind of start to I started to come
into into knowing both of those people and and kind
of developing my own personality and identity, even though you know,
it was far off from where I am today. I
(07:41):
was starting to get to that age that those those
close to teenage years where you start to believe that
you know, you know everything, you're smarter than just about everyone, uh,
and you have you have the rest of your life
ahead of you, when in actuality, those are just the
most important building blocks for your development into a person
with character whose trust and faith carry them through life. Yeah,
(08:07):
for me, I kind of thought better of it, and
for years I came to learn. Like I said, I
came to learn those people probably in a similar way
that you did.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Man, we're all just doing the best we can with
what we have. And you talked about being maybe too
smart for your own good. Something people may not know
is I called Foster coach Foster a lot in meetings
and practice situations because it was really from this place
of Honestly, I never probably vocalized as much, but it
(08:44):
was a place of respect from the way that your
mind approached the game and the way that you tried
to inspire other people to like a standard of excellence.
And I want to like, where did that come from?
Was that always something that just kind of came naturally
to you as a kid, Like how did that passion?
And just like the different type of football mind that
(09:05):
you have developed as a kid.
Speaker 4 (09:09):
Let me ask you this, Darren and you Donnie as well.
Are there ever any times where you were a kid
and you remember sitting in class and your teacher would
roll would roll like a TV screen in and would
put on a movie for you right before Christmas break
or summer vacation, Like, was there ever a time where,
and specifically during one of those times where she'd roll
(09:32):
it in and it was kind of a niche movie
that you were sure twenty nine of your other thirty
classmates hadn't seen, but you were the one kid who
had seen it. I remember feeling like that sometimes when
I was younger, and I was like, oh, wait a minute,
what what is this? This is Oh, I know this movie,
(09:55):
and then all of a sudden, it would fill me
with a rush of like, oh, there's a really good part,
there's really good parts coming up. I've already seen it.
I don't, And I don't know what that was when
I was young. Maybe I just I felt like I
maybe wanted some type of attention or wanted to be
acknowledged as someone who had already seen it. I don't
know what filled me with doing that, but it sort
(10:17):
of started to creep its way into other parts of
my life. But from there someone had identified that in me.
One of my strength coaches back at LSU, SAME's Ben Anakione,
and he identified that that was something that I always did,
was I would help in coaching where I could, and
(10:39):
I'd always take a step back where I didn't know,
and he always he said he really appreciated that, and
I to me. I was flabbergasted. I had no idea
I would do it, but it kind of became a
main stay. And so when it became you and I
that year in twenty nineteen, the mission and the goal
(11:02):
was always to have the best room that we could.
So it became an ownership of making sure that everyone
was on the same page right, And so it always
helped me too, knowing that if you're if you're, if
(11:22):
I know what you're doing, then I know that you're
going to know what I'm doing. And if I could
okay with you at the line, like hey, you got
the shallow here and I'm going to try to get
Zay Jones open on the on the quick whip out route,
Like if I could say that and I could walk
up to the line, I know we're going to be
successful on the play regardless. And that was what was
(11:42):
going to make us the best room. It wasn't about
you know, you guys all as it was necessarily me
being in the right place too.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
So when you guys, when you guys both jumped on
screen when we started the podcast, the smile on each
of your faces when you just saw each other's faces,
I mean, it was hopefully you're watching this on video.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
And caught that.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
But could you guys just talk about your bond and
what makes it so special? I mean, there's an undeniable connection.
I've seen you guys together in the flesh, but just
you know, even in those first few moments when we
started this podcast, you could you could feel it. Where
does that come from? And what's it rooted in?
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Okay, so let me give some context. I remember twenty nineteen,
Frank Smith was our tight end coach who was also
a groomsman in my wedding. As you know, Donnie, he's
the offensive coordinator for the Miami Dolphins now, but he
was our guy. And this was when Fosterer was in
the draft. He's going to be a rookie. And Frank
comes to me in and he's like, man, like, I'm
(12:46):
trying to like build this room. They want to go
in a younger direction, and I'm thinking of a guy
that will like compliment you greatly. I have two guys
in mind, but I think there's one that you know.
I don't even know if they're really sold on him upstairs,
but I just know that he's a guy that would
bring him to this room and it's just going to
be pert and uh and it's and it's Foster. And
(13:07):
we bring Foster in and it's just like we're kind
of like if you look at us, like on paper,
maybe we're like two very different people, you know. Like
he's walking in the room like he's commanding the room.
Like like like I said, I call you coach Foster
because he's vocal. He's not afraid. When he knows something,
he's he's gonna speak on it. And some people will
maybe like, oh, this guy is like a little loud
(13:29):
for a rookie. Don't you think like he's a little
over the top. But but I never really viewed I
was never really on board with like the making rookies
feel like they're just like the little the little guy,
you know. I'm more so like let them be, let
them know. And I feel like if you kind of
let them, I think feel like they're a part of
(13:49):
it'll help them with their growth and their development. More so,
I'm like, let me, let let this guy be. And
it's like he's the vocal. I'm more of like a
reserved guy until I'm around people that I feel safe
around them. I'm just like a complete goofball. But I
feel like, just like maybe as a case of opposite
to tract, but I mean we ended up like finding
light ways to make We made music together. We've made
(14:10):
multiple tracks together. He came to record at my house,
like we're just we find out we're just into a
lot of the similar things. But I feel like it
was coming in mentally with not a lot of ego.
I feel like we can daggle bit more into Foster's journey,
but his journey in mind, I think coming through college
were a little bit similar, whereas we weren't guys that
were just like completely glamorized or these megastars. So there
(14:36):
was like a humility built in kind of through our
journey where people were kind of like, we don't know
about They definitely didn't know about me, like and I
kind of earned that at that point in my career,
and people were kind of like Foster like he's okay,
Like he's physical, Like we know we'll get from him
in the in the in the run game. And it's
like we we knew that we were more than what
(14:57):
we were kind of being sold as, but we knew
that it was going to take work to get there,
and just being on honest and going about the craft
the right way. And I feel like there was mutual
respect from the beginning, wanting to enjoy each and every day,
each and every moment together and then just going out
and like Foster said, like trying to be the best
(15:18):
group we could possibly be. And that started happening quickly.
Like we were in running plays at three tied end
sets that a lot of teams ain't ain't ain't doing
and uh, and Foster was carving out a big time
role for himself and was like our red zone threat
and like like basically our guy that was like putting
(15:40):
the ball in the end zone like and it was
just really cool to see. And I'm glad that I
was able to do some work in my heart to
that point to actually be genuinely happy to see him
succeed and not have like any type of envy and
we could just succeed alongside each other and see the
greatness in him develop and not be bothered by it.
(16:03):
That's what I think made it more fun. And I
don't know if I went too far on that and
didn't allow the room for him to share.
Speaker 4 (16:08):
It all kind of comes back to Frank for me
as I came in. He kind of laid it out
for me in black and white, and I'll give him credit,
he didn't pull any punches. He said, look, the guy
that you're coming in to replace or kind of make
(16:32):
the room younger. The guy's name was Lee Smith. He's
a career exceptional in line, in line tight end, excelled
in pass blocking and run game schematics. He was a
really good player. And so when I got there, basically
what I was told was I'm here in I'm here
(16:52):
to further my career and you know, find development and
definitely grow from the player I was at LSU. But
really it was I was there to protect Darren and
do you know a lot of the jobs that he
could do, But if I did those jobs well, then.
Speaker 5 (17:15):
He could exceed in other fields.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
And it showed from I think it might have been
the first play of the season, or maybe the second play.
Darren had had a thunder route on the outside on
the left and he just converted it because it was
press and went up and lost a guy. And I'm
over there trying my my absolute best not to get
baptized in.
Speaker 5 (17:38):
Fire by von Miller and Bradley Jebb.
Speaker 4 (17:42):
And for me, I said, that's this is it. This
is exactly what it was supposed to be. And the
more I get on the field, the more opportunities I'll
find myself getting into. So being a being a protector
for Darren was not all it's cracked up to be.
(18:04):
Most of the time, I would just try to have
a conversation with him as we were walking in so
he didn't have to sign as many autographs because he
was really starting to become a household name, especially in
the Bay Area, and it gave me a sense of purpose,
especially for a guy who was so well well thought
out and well organized, and he knew who he was.
(18:28):
But I didn't know Darren at all, really, I just
I knew about his story, I knew about his addiction,
and I knew he was working his way into becoming
the man he is today, the man that he always
wanted to be. So for me, I was trying to
help him get there in any way I could. And
you know, I found I found my flock tending to
(18:50):
someone else's field in a way that was that was
what I was trying to do, and with Darren, he
made it.
Speaker 5 (18:56):
He made it so easy and he was.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
He had a quiet leadership role that I could be
as loud as I want, but I'll never command as
much rep acts as he does.
Speaker 5 (19:06):
Especially for me.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
Wow, what was it like having Darren in a as
a leader, following his lead, but also just doing things
so different than the majority of the NFL in so
many different areas of life on and off the field.
What was that like? Just kind of having that that
(19:28):
mirror and model.
Speaker 4 (19:29):
I have always said and will always say, and Darren
will deny it till he till the day he dies.
But the the listeners on this on this podcast know
better than me or better than most, that he's commanded
with a gift of When he speaks, it needs to
(19:49):
be addressed. He speaks almost with a with a tongue
of fire. He speaks with the Holy Spirit. I've said
that for a long time. I don't ever. I don't
see a day where I won't. He's he's got a gift,
and he's got a command, and he's got a conviction
to tell his story and change lives. Telling that story
(20:11):
personally through my recent diagnosis. I didn't really want to
make it public. I don't want to make it known.
I kind of just wanted to go deal with it
and then come back and be who I was. But
my mom, my girl, a couple and a couple of
my close friends told me, no, this is a story
(20:34):
that you need to take command of and try to
affect other people's lives through your dealing of it. And
most most everyone would think woe is me to think
I could change someone else's life just through my story.
But we're on the way there, and anyone who I
(20:56):
could positively affect I would be remiss if I didn't.
The first person, then the first face that pops in
my head would be mister Big drink himself, Darren Wallers.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
So for the listeners that aren't familiar, what have the
last six months looked like for you leading up to
today and what exactly are you referring to?
Speaker 4 (21:23):
Back in March March, I believe it was March twenty
third I was diagnosed with Hodgkins lymphoma. I was going
on a free agency visit down in my hometown of
New Orleans, and I found a doctor that was giving
my physical names, Doctor John Amos. He's the team doctor
for the Saints. He goes and he's going to give
(21:48):
me a basically just a routine physical checkup, one that
you would get at any any doctor's appointment. The first
thing he touches right here is my my left my
left claviical and my left lymph node right here.
Speaker 5 (22:06):
To where basically he feels he feels a mass. And
we go.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
Through the tests, the hoops and the bounds. We do
two different biopsies trying to determine what all it is.
But it's certainly it's certainly not just some run of
the milk growth. It's I'm definitely not just coming down
with a little bit of a cold and I have
an I have an inflamed lymph Note I wound up
having Hodgkins lymphoma with the specific cell type of nodular
(22:35):
lymphatic predominant Hodgkins lymphoma, which basically meant that my journey
was going to be different than anyone else's because it's
a more rare form of It's a rare, more rare
form of Hodgkins. From there, we ran more tests and
we wanted to make sure it was this rare form
(22:55):
because ultimately the treatment methods are completely different from what
you would find in a normal Hodgkins patient. So after
we did that secondary biopsy, we found out it was
the NLPHL form of Hodgkins, that that rare strand of
cell type.
Speaker 5 (23:13):
And I was set up to do.
Speaker 4 (23:17):
About a month and month and a half of treatments
that I completed down here in New Orleans, surrounded by
family in the the cancer center of the of the
Benson Cancer Institute on the fifth floor over right here
(23:37):
in my hometown, which was you know, it was pretty
special for me just being about twelve minutes away from
a place that was literally saving my life, and in
twelve minutes the other direction was the doctor who had
who had saved it because unbeknownst to me and unbeknownst
(23:57):
to the doctor from the visit that I was on
the day before I had a I had another physical
less than sixteen hours before that, and that doctor found nothing,
no no impurities, no gross and I was just I
was grateful that my agent set me down here and
(24:21):
he said it'd be good, it's what you want to do,
and he I guess we'll never know how right he
really was, because I'm pretty blessed.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
There's so many layers to this. I remember when you
first called me, and I'm listening and taking it all
in and I'm just like I don't know how to
react to this right now, and and I'm going to
get back to you and how you were on that
call in a second. But when I got off the phone,
(24:55):
I was like, man, for years, I've seen this man
do things on a daily basis to where I'm like,
I know this man is not only like a starting
tied end in the NFL, but a man that could
like be that that piece, that guy on on a
(25:18):
team for years to come, somebody that can be like
this is this is the this is our guy. I've
seen that from you on a daily basis, and the
opportunities that you've been given didn't always match what I
knew as truth. And for you to have an opportunity
and free agency to go somewhere and to have a
(25:41):
new start and a new opportunity to be able to
showcase your skills in a better in a different way,
to have this happen, I was like, man, like, this
is just like not only a lot, but it's just
like it's a whole like spiritual experience in a way.
It's like nothing is guaranteed, you know what I'm saying,
(26:04):
Like this is something that you've put in the work for.
You've and not only been like I can't wait to
get my shot, but you've served teammates, served coaches, served
the Raiders organization, the whole way in a just in
the highest class and to get to this opportunity and
in an instant, in a flash, it's like, oh, this
(26:25):
is like taking away, this is no longer, this may
no longer be a thing. But the calmness of your
voice on that phone call is something that I will
never forget. And I'm just like, how can somebody be
this calm with all this Like, because I know you
were waiting for this moment, waiting for this opportunity, but
you were calm, Like what does that? Can you explain
(26:50):
to the people that are listening, because a lot of
people may just be overflown with anger, overtaken with resentment,
or so many different kinds of emotions, Like one, what
were you what were you feeling at that time? What
were the emotions you were battling with? But can you
speak to that calm because it's something that hit me
as your friend, and it's something that I'll never forget.
Speaker 4 (27:12):
Sure, And not to take away from the seriousness with
a little bit of levity, but that's kind of my thing.
Speaker 5 (27:22):
I was already.
Speaker 4 (27:24):
I was already mad as hell that the entire, the
entire tight end class of free agents, we were not
going to get the numbers we wanted. It wasn't even
going to be close. That was the reasons I was
taking these visits. That was that was the intention. Was like, Hey,
get in front of these guys. They're going to love you,
(27:45):
and then they might give us an extra they might
give us some change on the back end because they
like you that much and now that they've seen you,
they want you. I thought that was a smart strategy,
and I said, okay, let's go with that. And when
I just I saw all the rest of the guys
and their numbers were so low, and I'm like, ah,
this isn't what This isn't what you know, Hayden Hurst,
(28:08):
this isn't what he's worth, you know, Dalton Schultz, this
isn't what he's worth. Right, But these guys are taking
one year deals because the tight end class in the
draft was pretty astounding, a bunch of really high grades
and a bunch of really good players. So I was like, okay,
you know, I'm getting on these flights. I'm tired, I'm anxious,
this is this sucks, but whatever, this is what we're
(28:31):
doing and this is this is what this life is.
And in a second, when that doctor said Hodgkins lymphoma,
every bit of anxiety that I had about free agency,
that I had about ball, that I had about my
public image, of what people thought that I was worth,
or however much my dad sent me that this guy
(28:54):
got or this guy got, all that disappeared and it
was it just melted off of me and none of
it mattered anymore. And I know that's a weird thing
to say, but to me, it didn't. I could only
(29:14):
think about getting this this, this this cancerous lymph node
out of my body, get it healed, get fixed. Obviously
I went through denial initially, but the doctor seemed sincere,
and he seemed knowledgeable, and he knows what he's talking about.
And if you know me, I might think I have
(29:34):
a medical degree, but in truth, I never do, and
I might I probably never will. But we we went
and we talked to the radiologist. I was scared, I
was nervous, and at that point I just didn't want
the information getting leaked out.
Speaker 5 (29:52):
To anyone.
Speaker 4 (29:53):
I didn't want anyone that I know and love to
get this information from a way that wasn't my words
to them. So I made sure I cut down a
list of people I wanted to tell how I wanted
to tell them, and I didn't want anyone to freak
(30:16):
out because I didn't know any of the information yet.
The doctor said, hey, it's probably high nineties percent that
it is that it is some form of cancer, probably Hodgkins,
And at that point I just wanted to make sure
the people that I knew kind of got to find
out before it would hit you know, a tweet by
(30:39):
Adam Schefter or by anyone, right.
Speaker 5 (30:44):
And I think we handled that well.
Speaker 4 (30:47):
I got to tell my parents, my girl, my best
friends in the world, and at that point I was
okay with starting treatment from that Sunday if I wanted to,
and I didn't have to tell anyone else, but that
point it was it was time for me to share
my story.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Who was helping you, guiding you through that process and
kind of the decision making process of who to tell
did you have a was it the doctor or was
there somebody else in your life or in your corner
at the time.
Speaker 4 (31:18):
I would run everything by my mom. Every decision I
would make, I would say, oh, you know, I had
my mom my dad. They were in the same house
for the first for the first time in a long time,
and I had said, Hey, what do you think about
telling Yeah, telling so and so, Like I mean, do
you think they need to know? And I'm like, yeah,
I think so. I think I think that would And honestly,
(31:40):
it was almost it was therapeutic for me in a
way that I would that I got to talk to
people that I wanted to talk to.
Speaker 5 (31:52):
You know, It's it's such a hard it's such a
hard thing.
Speaker 4 (31:56):
Because one of my best friends in the world, Danny Etlink,
he was on his bachelor trip and I was supposed
to be on it, but he's like, hey, handle your
free agency stuff, Like I get it. It's not a
big deal, Like I'm going to see you before then,
I'm going to see you at the wedding. Don't worry
about it. But to call him as he's on his
bachelor trip like just one of the one of the
(32:19):
times that you always remember. And I didn't want to
tell him, but I put myself in his shoes and
I would definitely want to know, same with you, same
with Alec and Gold, same with Hunter, Renfro, Max Crosby,
A couple of guys, old teammates, old great friends, and
(32:42):
from there I just kind of like put a cap
on it. I didn't tell most of my family members.
I told my mom and my dad obviously, and my
sisters had no idea. But I got him on a
group FaceTime call and they sobbed and we laughed, and
you know, I would make jokes about it to try
(33:04):
to to try to alleviate some of the stress that
they were probably feeling. But from from there it was
I knew it was going to be a battle. It
was just it was important for me to get it
out on my own terms.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
Can you take us through like some of the what
the anything that the cancer may have caused? Was it
did you feel like a lack of energy? Was it fatigue?
Speaker 5 (33:29):
Like?
Speaker 2 (33:29):
Can you take us through like some of this the
physical effects of.
Speaker 5 (33:33):
It, Darren?
Speaker 4 (33:34):
Mostly, the only physical effects I felt were from the
benadrill that they that they gave us, And that's and
that's God's honest truth. It was a completely different My
cancer was rare because it doesn't require chemotherapy or radiation.
(33:56):
I got extremely lucky. I felt the way of the
world bearing down on me. You know, after I got
it out, I was getting texts and calls and you know,
a lot of a lot of love and a lot
of heart and a lot of prayer was being sent
my way. And I felt probably about ten days after
(34:16):
the initial diagnosis, I really started to kind of settle
into a Oh man, this is really going to suck.
This is going to be bad. I'm going to be trained.
I'm not going to be myself. And from there I
got a call from my my oncologist. His name is
doctor Carter Davis. He works over there at the Benson
(34:37):
Cancer Center with Ashner, and he told me, he said,
look like it appears that you might have a rare
cell type. And so of course when you hear rare cancer,
your brain doesn't go to oh nice, that's great.
Speaker 5 (34:56):
Cool.
Speaker 4 (34:59):
No, but he said, you know, it actually might work
out in your favor and you might not miss as
much time from the from the football as you might think.
And I said, okay, well, the football field is that's
a bit on the back. That's on the back is
to burners talk to me about my health. And he's like, okay, Well,
so this form of this form of Hotchin's lymphoma is
(35:20):
not nearly as aggressive, it doesn't grow nearly as fast,
and you might have had it for a lot longer
than you think. Like, okay, that's different, he goes. The
reason that you didn't have any side effects is most
most cancers leave side effects because it's your body's natural
response to what the cancer is doing. Right, Like it's
(35:41):
you're sweating in your sleep. It's it's basically taking all
the sugar that you put into your body, and it's
basically accepting it as its own and growing off of that.
So you might feel like you'll feel tired, you'll go
and you'll you'll lose weight rapidly because your body's not
able to process things the right way. But in my case,
I had just been dealing with it for a long
(36:03):
time without really knowing and kind of just putting natural
defenses up against it.
Speaker 5 (36:09):
But when he told me.
Speaker 4 (36:10):
That, he said, we'd like to do a second we'd
like to get the tissues from the initial biopsy.
Speaker 5 (36:15):
Mind you, they did a biopsy on site that day.
Speaker 4 (36:19):
Within an hour, within thirty minutes of them telling me
I probably had Hodgkins. We were taking tissue samples at
the hospital, like at six forty five in the morning,
and it was not a licensed it was not a
licensed surgeon. It was a radiologist who had cut me
open and took tissue samples out of my shoulder. It
(36:43):
was I mean, I was and I'm just I'm just
I'm shocked in a way that I just I couldn't
I couldn't really do anything other than just take what
they're giving me. And I'm like, oh boy, I'm gonna
have to call Zach Taylor up with Cincinnati and say, hey, man,
like it's not going to work out. It's not gonna uh.
But you know, it was the what I feel from it, right,
(37:10):
what I felt through the entire process. To get back
onto onto the topic, was I felt I felt a
lot of mental stress, angst, a lot of things that
were within my control, but the stress that I felt
were from the things that I couldn't control, to where
I had no idea whether this retusamad medicine wasn't going
(37:32):
to work as well as a chemotherapy might or radiation could.
I also downplayed my diagnosis a lot because I knew
that I wasn't going to have to go through a
lot of the hard things that most other cancer patients
do because for some reason, you know, no pain, no
(37:52):
gain in my brain. But it's just I talked to
I talked to a few different survivors from different cancers.
Speaker 5 (38:07):
And that was always.
Speaker 4 (38:08):
That was always the message that they would leave me
with is, Hey, everyone has a different path, Everyone has
a different journey. Just because yours didn't hurt as bad
makes it doesn't make it any less impactful. It doesn't
make it any less difficult. It's just your story, and
it's it's different. And that I could still see the
(38:29):
face of the woman. Her name was Sarah. I could
still see she was a breast cancer survivor. I could
still see her face. I know exactly how she said it,
and it meant It meant a lot to me. It
gave me more purpose than what I realized I had
already had.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
I'm starting to hear the turnaround, but I'm curious before
you start to tell more of the comeback part of
this story. Was there like a lowest point or like
the darkest place that your mind went, or emotion went
like that kind of rock bottom emotionally, whether it was
around victim is ation or just stories you were telling yourselves.
(39:07):
So what was the darkest point and then what was
the turnaround? What shifted everything for you?
Speaker 4 (39:13):
There's a couple of different low points, but the I
felt fairly helpless after I had gotten after I had
gotten the first scan back, they kind of they kind
of they gave me the information, and I was I
was waiting to do I was waiting to do a
(39:33):
pet scan where they shoot you up with radioactive sugar tracers. Basically,
they go in and they see where the cancer is.
And you're sitting by yourself in a dark trailer. You're
isolated behind a really heavy door because you got you
(39:55):
got radiation literally flowing through your body, radioactive material. And
you know, I I'm blessed to play a game for
a living that pays me handsomely for something I would
gladly do for free with my buddies in a backyard
(40:15):
at any point in time for the rest of my life.
I love playing this game. I love football, and they
pay me way too much money to do it, and
that's a small little spield, but for me, I got
to the desk and they're like, Okay, here's what this
pet scan costs, would you like to pay it an
(40:36):
hour or later? And I'm like, oh my gosh, what
are you talking about. Insurance doesn't cover that. And it's
like they're talking about the premiums and they're talking about, well, no,
you know, you haven't anything on your rent and I'm like,
oh my gosh, So this is so I'm gonna have
to I have to try to beat cancer.
Speaker 5 (40:55):
I got to pay to beat it.
Speaker 4 (40:57):
All.
Speaker 5 (40:57):
You guys wanted me to do the scan.
Speaker 4 (40:59):
I got to pay for the scan, and then I
got to pay for that biopsy, this second biopsy. And
I'm like, I'm just I had been leading this, you know,
this ignorant lifestyle of not I just had no idea
what all was going on. I was stressed out, I
was worried. I was swiping my card for things. I
didn't even know what was going on. And I'm like,
(41:21):
you know, I'm thankful that I know, I knew that
I could afford it regardless of what it cost. But
it just put me in such a low point of saying,
what would happen if you if you weren't necessarily as
skilled at football? What if you were doing something God
knows what what if? What if you went left instead
(41:42):
of right that one time? And I'm just sitting I'm
sitting there waiting for my turn on the on the
pet scan and I'm just I'm praying, I'm I'm thankful,
but also I'm I'm tearful and I'm worried that, you know,
because at that point I knew I had Hodgkins, I
(42:02):
didn't know how bad it was. I didn't know what
my cell type was, and at this point the machine,
this was a test that I was unfamiliar with.
Speaker 5 (42:10):
I was scared.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
That.
Speaker 4 (42:14):
That was probably my lowest point. I think what I
had alluded to earlier when Carter Davis called me and said, hey,
this thing might work out in your favor and you
might have a chance of a much easier treatment process
than what I'm sure you've.
Speaker 5 (42:33):
Been preparing for.
Speaker 4 (42:37):
That really, honestly mentally from a place of a place
of where I started to feel the way of the
world on me. And I'd been talking to people about
their treatment process and about how tough it was, and
I'm like, well, you know, like it probably depends on
the person. They're like, no, it sucks for everyone. I'm like, Okay,
(43:00):
that's that's okay. Thanks, thank you for your help and
your sincerity.
Speaker 5 (43:08):
But when that happened, I definitely felt a shift and
a bit of a.
Speaker 4 (43:12):
Momentum, and I felt God's hand actively waving over my
life in ways that I really couldn't comprehend. And looking
back on it now, that was that was definitely the
point of transmission.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
This would be a crazy question to ask, but do
you feel grateful in a way for your diagnosis?
Speaker 4 (43:35):
In different ways? Absolutely, Obviously, I'm always going to say
a much happier that it was found when it was,
so for that I am grateful, and you know, I'll
give a small example the guy who found it, John Amos, doctor,
(44:01):
doctor Amos. He was so apologetic through the process of
us walking through the hospital and doing the biopsy, talking
to the radiologist, but he was doing something for the saints.
I was on a free agency visit, last minute thing.
So he rolled out of bed, got into the office,
(44:23):
came to give me a physical. Had it been someone
who was, you know, a little less hands on or
I don't know, maybe someone who might have just might
have just forgot to check that box, I could be
(44:44):
sitting here or anywhere with a camphor like a cancerous
lump still growing in my neck. And I mean, you
know athletes, you know, you know football players. You know
a lot of people, even if they think something might
be wrong, a lot of the times, you know, we'll
(45:09):
just ignore it instead of addressing it, just because it's
easier to just live in ignorance.
Speaker 5 (45:16):
I'm glad he was there that day.
Speaker 3 (45:20):
You know.
Speaker 4 (45:20):
I am grateful that it was found, and I think
I'll be a better man for it, certainly.
Speaker 3 (45:27):
I'm just grateful the way that you are. You've walked
us through these last six months. It's probably less than
six months, but the way that you tell your story,
and it's just captivating, and I have no doubt that
you're going to help so many other people, just like
that doctor who gave you a more optimistic diagnosis, gave
(45:51):
you kind of that glimmer of hope. That was the turnaround.
I mean, that's why Darren and I do this podcast. It's,
you know, for that person that's listening right now that
thinks they're all alone, that nobody understands, whether it's a diagnosis,
if it's an addiction, if it's mental health, and they
can actually hear that somebody else has gone through this,
even though my pain might look a little different than
(46:14):
your pain. You know, this is what connects us all.
But I'm just I'm blown away by how fresh this
still is for you. And one what your perspective is,
but how you tell your story. And I mean, I
think you're going to have some some good options whenever
football is over, for you to have a stage whatever
(46:36):
you want that to look like, to help a shit
ton of people.
Speaker 4 (46:40):
Thank you. You know, I joke with Darren when he
was as he as he so eloquently put it, poke
the bear when you try to get me on the podcast,
I I joke back with him. I say, you know,
like I don't really have anything that I've ever came
back from. You know, I've been I've lived a fairly
(47:04):
I've lived a fairly easy life. I've definitely had some
hiccups along the way, and I've dodged a couple of
bullets here and there.
Speaker 5 (47:12):
I've gotten lucky once or twice, but.
Speaker 4 (47:15):
No real experience that I've had to, you know, stop
my life and start a new path.
Speaker 5 (47:24):
Funny enough, I.
Speaker 4 (47:25):
Was just speaking cancer into my lymph notes, but from
there it was, you know, it's a different it's a
different mentality. Certainly, I'm lucky every day and I'm blessed
that I that I know people like like Darren, like you, Donnie,
(47:48):
like people who I know that. It is fresh in
my mind. But from the moment the diagnosis hit, there
was no option other than victory. There was nothing. There
was nothing else to do. It was just a matter
of time. I go back to my head strength coach
(48:10):
in college. His name's Tommy Moffatt. He's a two time
cancer survivor. I don't remember all that much from college.
I remember plenty of plays, plenty of circumstances, plenty of
fun nights out of the bar. But one thing that
has always and will always stick with me is that
(48:32):
strength coach, Tommy Moffatt, who I respected dearly. He told me,
you don't know how strong you are until strong is
the only option you have.
Speaker 5 (48:46):
I don't.
Speaker 4 (48:46):
I don't think anyone really understood the magnitude of what
he was saying. But coming from someone who would give
us our workouts every day and take ten minutes to
individualize and personalize things for different groups, that he knows
that we're going to have to work on this week,
(49:08):
for him to say something like that. To us, it
just it meant the world. And we might have just
done fifty updowns because three of our guys were late
or missed class, or we just we had to do
punishment runs or whatever that looked like. But you never
know how strong you are until strong is the only
option you have.
Speaker 5 (49:30):
I ted.
Speaker 4 (49:31):
I texted that to him. He texted me back some words.
And certainly experiences like that and people who have been
through it and can give me a little bit of
light in the darkness.
Speaker 5 (49:44):
That's that's what it's all about.
Speaker 2 (49:48):
Man. I can't let you go without asking you in
knowing like the emotions and the joy and what your
heart felt like when you were able to not only
return to practice and return being able to play the
game that you love, but to do it putting on
(50:08):
a helmet of the town, of the streets that you
grew up in, you know, the restaurants and the Marty
Grass and all the crazy things that you crazy folks
do down there. What like, what does that feel like?
Because those kinds of things just don't happen, you know
what I'm saying, Like, like, what does like take us
(50:30):
through that? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (50:31):
I mean in a similar vein how did I get
diagnosed in the same town that my mom is ten
minutes away from the hospital, and I could get my
I can get my initial diagnosis, and I could drive home.
I could drive ten minutes to my house that I've
lived for what feels like my whole life, and hug
(50:54):
my mom, who's probably one of the most important people
in my life, if not the most important, and just
be surrounded by family during in the darkest time that
I had ever experienced. In a similar way, I do
my last treatment on March ninth. I finish it up
(51:16):
three days after my twenty sixth birthday. And I remember
seeing that last that last drop go through the syringe
and I said, Okay, all right, I think I think
that's I think that's all.
Speaker 5 (51:33):
She wrote. I went home.
Speaker 4 (51:39):
I woke up the next morning. I uh, I was
getting a haircut from as Darren knows good and well.
Speaker 5 (51:46):
My haircut.
Speaker 4 (51:46):
My hairstylist is the same woman who gave who gave
gave me life is my mom is Trisha Morrow.
Speaker 5 (51:55):
She's given me a haircut.
Speaker 4 (51:56):
And my my agent calls and he's like, hey, the
Saints offer came through. It's exactly what we thought it was.
How how soon can you be over there to sign it?
Speaker 5 (52:09):
Like I could.
Speaker 4 (52:10):
I just got to get a haircut. It's like, all right,
they'll expect you within the hour, two hours, or whatever
it is. It was a funny day though, because my
little step brother's names William. He was signing his letter
of intent to go play college baseball.
Speaker 5 (52:29):
They just won.
Speaker 4 (52:31):
They just won a state championship with with their baseball team,
and that's where they were going, and so he went
and I had to interrupt my entire signing process so
I can go watch my little step brother on one
of the one of the one of the biggest days
of his life. May teenth was not supposed to be
about me, but you know, he took it on the
(52:54):
chin and we share the day now, which is pretty funny.
Getting back to practice though, was pretty special. And I'd
be lying if I said that there wasn't part of
me that didn't want to be here and deal with
You know, of all the five hundred people that I
probably know in this world, really well, four hundred and
(53:14):
ninety eight of them might be in the stadium every
Sunday when I dress up in the in the black
and gold. I don't know if I really wanted that
pressure or that anxiety. But at the same time, I
thought back to the times of me watching Jeremy Shockey
and Jimmy Graham and Josh Hill and a bunch of
(53:36):
different guys, and I'm like, man, like, oh, I'd kill
for that opportunity, you know, and going to games in
the Dome from when I was very very young. I
had always loved the Saints, and.
Speaker 5 (53:48):
To be here.
Speaker 4 (53:50):
Surrounded by friends and family, and you know, obviously having
Derek here throwing me balls, it's very familiar. I'm very lucky,
I'm very blessed. It's an interesting experience. Certainly, this has
been an honor man.
Speaker 3 (54:08):
I mean, I feel like we could go on and
on and on, and there's so much more of your
comeback still to be written. A couple of things I
want to go back to. You mentioned the word protector,
like you were a Darren's protector, and that really struck
a chord with me because I have felt in other
areas of life that in a sense, I, in my
(54:30):
world have been Darren's protector. And now, mind you, he's
six ' six, full of twisted steel and sex appeals,
so he doesn't necessarily need me like protecting him, protecting
him on the streets, right, but like in other areas
from everything else, the chaos and everything else, trying to
pull him from his center. So, as you said that,
(54:51):
it really it really hit home for me, and I
thank you for taking on that role and seeing that
as a way of being of service and being a
good friend and a teammate and a leader. And then
I just go back to the way that you just
captivated us through a very very fresh story of yours
(55:12):
that happened. I just I'm excited for you and what's possible.
I'm excited for this year. I'm really excited for you
guys to be teammates again playing in the Pro Bowl
at the end of this year. And yeah, it's just yeah,
it's just a it's a gift to have you here, man.
It's been honored to sit back and listen to you.
Speaker 5 (55:29):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (55:30):
It's it's honestly been a blast being here. It shouldn't
have taken us this long, but I'm glad we finally
got it going.
Speaker 5 (55:40):
Yeah, and.
Speaker 4 (55:42):
Darren, plenty of plenty, a lot of twisted steel, but
plenty of sex appeal. Yeah, he's a friend for life.
He's a friend for life, certainly. I'm just I'm happy
that that we're just starting to kind of get to
know each other a little bit a little bit better.
The role, yeah, that that role of protector. I didn't
(56:06):
ever think that that was really something that I could do.
But just being there with him and for him, being
where our feet were every day, that was how I
found my best center certainly. So just you know, being
being a part of him, as you know, he's a
special cat man.
Speaker 2 (56:27):
Thank you, bro, I I was thinking earlier. I was
people always ask me how my off season went, you know,
being with a new team and everything, and like, you know,
everything's great. I'm with a top flight organization. People top
to bottom are just amazing to be with, you know
what I'm saying. But I remember the first time we
came and had meetings and Frank wasn't there, and I
(56:53):
was like, there's gonna be good men that I have
the privilege to be learning from and being around. But
there won't be another Hymn. And I'm going to have
to accept that and and and cherish the memories that
we have and getting back to the Giants, Like, I
(57:14):
love everything about my experience, but there won't be another you, man,
like in the in the room, like just in the
locker room, hanging out, just being a friend, being a guy,
laughing like the things that we laugh about, like and
just you know the way that we went about business, bro,
like there won't there won't be another you. And uh
(57:34):
miss you dearly already. Bro. And I'm grateful that we
got to have this opportunity to talk. Man. I'm so
proud of you, bro. Uh just your strength, your your
your courage, uh and just your overall perspective bro, like
you know you you him. Bro, Just know that thank
my ship. My ship broke off, my shap broke off
(57:56):
my risk.
Speaker 5 (57:58):
I was there. I remember what it did. Yeah, I
remember it was us in the Atlas gym. You know
it was good. Thank you man. That means the word.
Speaker 2 (58:06):
Let me know that for sure.
Speaker 1 (58:08):
Bro.
Speaker 2 (58:08):
So man, Thank you everybody that's tuned in and listened today.
Appreciate you guys. Keep coming back listening to us here
on Comeback Stories. We'll keep coming back for you. You
keep telling people that we keep coming back, and check
us out wherever you get your podcast, check us out
on the Inflection Point YouTube as well, and we will
(58:28):
catch you guys next week.
Speaker 1 (58:32):
Comeback Stories is a production of Inflection Network and iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast,
or wherever you get your podcasts.
Hosts And Creators
Eric Balchunas
Donny Starkins
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