September 28, 2023 • 53 mins
In this thought-provoking episode, we embark on a journey into the heart of leadership. Join Darren and Donny as they share their incredible stories of self-discovery and transformation. Learn how their past mistakes and moments of selfishness have become the very building blocks of their inspiring journeys as purpose-driven leaders. This conversation is a testament to the remarkable transformation that is possible when we lead with heart and purpose.
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DARREN WALLER
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DONNY STARKINS
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Comeback Stories is a production of Inflection Network and iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Welcome back, everyone to another episode of Comeback Stories. I'm
one of your co host, Darren Waller. I'm joined as
always by my man, my running mate, my road dog,
Donnie starkins. Donnie, how you doing today? Bro?
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Oh Man, that's good. That's like automatic smile comes on
to my face when I see your face.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
No doubt Man's likewise, and I think this is the
very first episode. We're joined by my cat Spiro. So
if you guys hear him winding in the back me Allen,
just just know he means no harm. But we're excited
to be here today diving into a topic that Donnie
and I are both really passionate about, something that's really
unfolding in my life currently. We want to talk about
(00:47):
the topic of leadership, and I feel like it's something
that is constantly being unpacked, constantly being talked about, and
to a lot of people it may sound intimidating, it
may sound like it's outside of their reach, like they
may have to be a CEO or a president or
something grand in order to be a leader. But we
(01:08):
kind of want to debunk that today and give people
inspiration and just tips to help them lead wherever they're at,
because we're all leaders no matter what we're called to,
no matter if it's two people, no matter if it's
two million people. We all have that space that leveraged
that platform to be leaders and it's all about how
(01:30):
we approach it. And you know, the greatest the quote
I saw that keeps leadership simple is leadership is influence,
which you may have heard from John Maxwell. And it's
all about how you use that influence, whether it's for negative,
whether it's for positive. But we all have a choice
in our leadership. And you know, I'm just excited to
unpack this with you guys today. Donnie, what are your
(01:52):
opening thoughts when you think of leadership? What comes to
mind first? For you?
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Well, what comes to mind? There's a couple of things. First,
it's John Maxwell because I think he speaks and writes
on on that top better than anybody. I think his
last book was Leader Shift, which I love that name
because my coaching program is called The Shift. But yeah,
I think it is influence and we can influence positively
or negatively, and you're leading either way. But I think
(02:17):
the essence, I know we talk about this a lot.
Is it's service, right, it's serving others rather than being
self serving or actually wanting to be served by others.
I always like to say, if service is below you,
leadership is beyond you. And man, like, what a gift.
It always comes back to our addiction in our past
(02:38):
and the selfishness and self centeredness that gave us this
antidote to life. It's the greatest life hack, and that's
it's being of service. And it's just such a great
way to lead by example. I think the world is
changed by your example, not by your opinion. And in
a world of social media and a lot of noise
and some you know, leaders in our country and leaders
(03:00):
in our world that might not necessarily be leading by example,
that that it's important that really service is at the
root of it. But as you were, as I saw
your face, and as we're talking about leadership, it just
had me thinking about you know how I'm constantly in
the work of this and wanting to step up and
be a great leader and then sometimes maybe not. And
(03:22):
it can show up even in my relationship. Right, So
like this weekend, came out to see you, came out
to see you play, and my girl, my partner, she
banged up her ankle really bad in New York City
and she couldn't walk, and you kind of have to
be able to walk in New York City. So you know,
the selfish, self centered part of me was like, you know,
(03:45):
stay home, I'm going to go to the game. And
I just kind of had to like step up and
be a leader and make sure she felt taken care
of and sacrifice my own desires. And you know, I
think about initially the level of disappointment that I felt,
but also I started to embody a little bit right,
and it's like it's not her fault, you know what
(04:06):
I mean. And so it was just interesting as you
brought it up, and I'm like, wow, there was a
gap there where maybe I wasn't a good leader in
the relationship. Now luckily I don't think it lasted very long,
but long enough to have some contrasts there. So you know,
I think it's just a reminder that one leadership can
look and it shows up in all areas of our life.
(04:28):
And for me, it's just like constantly evolving from it.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Absolutely, man. And there's a quote I love it. You're
not responsible for your thoughts but you are responsible for
your action. So I feel like in that situation, just
because you had a thought of what you may have
wanted to do, you know, I wouldn't judge yourself for that,
you know, because your actions showed that, Hey, I'm gonna
make sure that she's okay. I'm gonna set the tone
(04:53):
here because she needs help and she's my partner. She's
most important to me, so I'm gonna let that be known.
And that's important man. And I feel like in order
for you to see that, and in order to not
do the people that are listening to disservice, I think
we need to start with Leadership is about leading yourself
before you get the opportunity to lead other people. And
(05:15):
the fact that you're leading yourself whereas it's showing compassion
to yourself, Like, hey, if you were in a certain
situation and you were hurting, you'd care for yourself. So
the fact that you know how to do that, you
can extend that to Maho instead of, you know, trying
to think just about yourself and what you may have
wanted in a moment. And I feel like a lot
(05:35):
of people want platforms, a lot of people want titles
and positions to be able to direct people or tell
people what to do. But where is your level of
leadership at for yourself? Like when nobody else is watching,
where's your level of discipline? Where's your level of you know,
self maintenance, you know, self motivation? Like these things have
(05:58):
to be taken into account because are you going to
be a CEO but you don't know how to work,
you don't have work ethic, or you you want to
be a coach, a head coach, but you don't know
how to serve, You don't know how to you know,
be a position coach first, you don't know how to
do all these things. So I feel like before we
dive into all these things and qualities that people can implement,
(06:18):
we got to start with saying like, hey, like we
need to be leading ourselves because ultimately, our desires and
our wants that are self centered will show if we're
not about you know, having that character and having that
proper influence that we should be policing in ourselves first
(06:39):
before we even start to want to have influence over
other people.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Man, Yeah, it has me thinking about like a quality
of leadership is someone that really prioritizes self care and
personal development. Right, it's taking care of yourself. So there
is an aspect of it where yeah, you do have
to put yourself first before you can serve others. But
that personal development and the self reflection and our in
(07:05):
our recovery program, doing doing daily inventories and sitting in
our practices, it's so important because what it does is
it gives you more emotional intelligence, right, and emotional intelligence
is just the ability to control and express your emotions
as well as handle interpersonal relationships and conflict and when
(07:28):
things don't go your way. And you know, it's just
bringing me back to you know, my my scenario that
I brought up in New York City, and you know,
if I look back on it in my own self reflection,
yes there were thoughts, but I think those thoughts turned
into like leaky emotions a little bit. So luckily again
it didn't last long. But it's just, you know, I'm
(07:51):
aware of it, and I guess I you know, I
just I know the importance of humility and honesty, and
especially on this, you know, on our podcast, like you know,
we can sit here and spit all the wisdom and
knowledge that it's not ours, it's stuff that we learn
but I think it's more important to talk about like
the mess ups and where we're still lacking this and
(08:14):
also just our willingness to like want to do better,
you know, learn and grow from it.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Absolutely. Man. Yeah, like you said, we are people that
are living out these things as as you guys are, Like,
there's a new change and a new shift as far
as leadership in my life being in New York, being
on this new team, I'm one of the older guys
in the locker room. And no matter how long I mean,
(08:41):
the fact that I've been in the league so long,
getting close to a decade, Guys that are young, no
matter what I may be doing, no matter how good
I may be playing, how bad I may be playing,
they see me being in the league nine years just
about and they're like, well, how is he doing that?
Like I want to get there just that length of time.
And so for me, it's about Okay, how conscious of
(09:02):
am I of my routine, means, my my attitude, the
way that I treat people, just being about a collective
goal as opposed to an individual goal, and realizing that
I've adopted this place of leadership whether I want to
accept it or not, because usually you know who I am.
(09:23):
In my core, I kind of just want to blend in,
be quiet, you know, say some jokes, you know, kind
of be say things every now and then. But I
don't want to be the guy that's responsible for making
this thing go. But now, like I feel like God
is calling me out of that. He's not calling me
to just be this super raw, raw leader, but somebody
that can be more vocal, somebody that can share experience,
(09:44):
because me being in the NFL at least in that lead.
In this aspect of leadership of my life. I've been drafted,
been drafted late, I've been cut, I've signed big contracts,
I've been traded, I've been the pro bowler. I've also
been hurt on injured reserve. So there's not an experience
that I haven't add. So, you know, I honestly feel
(10:07):
like shame on me for not wanting to lead, Shame
on me for not wanting to share this experience with
other people, because it's not necessarily about my comfortability with it.
It's more so about how other people can learn. And
that goes back to that servanthood that you were talking
about earlier, Like being a leader is a servant it's
not about what I can take from people. It's about
what I can add. It's about what I can give.
It's about you know, other people being better versions of themselves,
(10:30):
growing just because they were around me and us working
to a collective goal, right like you think of this,
I remember this image I saw a long time ago
before I even wanted to even dive into leadership. It's
two different pictures of what people think leadership is and
what leadership actually is. And some people think leadership is
you know people kind of like carrying a throne like
kind of like some slaves back in the day, like
(10:54):
like way way back like BC, like Roman era, like
carrying a throne of like an emperor on it. The
emperor's pointing like work, we're going this way, but the
leader is kind of just like relaxing and boston people around.
Whereas the real image of leadership is that leader's out
in front doing exactly what others are doing, getting their
(11:14):
hands dirty, getting their feet, you know, ten toes on
the ground, like really out there on the front lines
and moving it. Not just calling out orders, calling out shots,
so just trying to you know, create this image of
you know, what leadership really is from a basic level
and just continue to add to that.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
From a football standpoint, what would you say like your
leadership style is today.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
I feel like it's hard for me to put it
into like one style because I feel like it's shifting
and evolving all the time, because, you know, naturally, I
want my leadership style to be kind of like leading
from the back, kind of like like the wolf situation.
I don't know if anybody's familiar with that, but leading
from the back essentially there's like a there's a wolf
(12:05):
in the front that's kind of leading the pack everywhere
they're going, but then there's a strong wolf that's also
in the back that's like keeping anybody from getting to
the weaker wolves or the wolves that are struggling, or
the or the children, like keeping everybody, you know, make
sure they're moving in the right direction. I feel like
that's natural to me. Of encouraging guys that may have
dropped the pass or made a bad player, made a mistake,
(12:26):
that wanted to just beat themselves up or dive into
self pity. I feel like that's natural for me because
I see myself kind of slipping into those areas as well.
But now it's you know, situations where I can be
more vocal, like you know, just real. Uh. Just recently
we had a game, first game of the season, and
we got mopped, like it was tough, and you know,
(12:46):
I've seen situations on the sideline and one of the
guys I've always looked up to, with my teammate, Tyrod Taylor,
he was like, hey, man, like, you know, lead these
guys like be you know, be more vocal, like you know,
they're gonna they're gonna listen to you. And it's like okay,
Like in that moment, I'm just kind of like all right,
like this is this is new territory for me, but
it's it's constantly expanding, so it's hard to put myself
into one style. But naturally me and myself, I'm a
(13:10):
guy like lead from the back, maybe not necessarily in
the front, leading rah rah. Like everybody sees like how
ray Lewis was like, that's leadership for sure, But you
don't have to be a leader to be that way.
And I hope people can see that because some people
aren't necessarily comfortable with getting out there and just and
giving a passion filled speech and just going all out,
(13:30):
like maybe we work ourselves into that, but we can
find a leadership role in the style for ourselves exactly
where we're at.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
Does it feel awkward to you to like be more
vocal and when tired like approaches you? Do you do
you feel the resistance initially or are you like taking
charge after you you get a comment like that from him?
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Yeah, I feel the resistance initially because it's not something
that that I've always done and I've always kind of
picked my spots and know like, all right, when I
say something, I'm going to have something to say. But
in that situation, it's like, okay, like these guys, these
guys trust me to to to say things that aren't
gonna be out of line, or that aren't gonna be
attacking people or that aren't gonna be scrutinized because I
(14:14):
am somebody that's careful with my words. I'm careful with
my actions. I'm careful with the way that I you know,
present myself in work and prepare. So it's it's a
matter of just kind of like throwing myself out there,
kind of like taking that leap of faith into it,
and uh, it's gonna take some time, you know, It's
still gonna be a little bit of that resistance, maybe
even for a while, but it's about pushing through it,
(14:35):
you know. Like I've always heard this pastor like name
is Tim Ross, he said, if you can't it's basically like,
if you can't do it brave, do it afraid. And
that's something that I'm embodying in a way to this
new these new chapters of my leadership, because you know,
as you go to new heights, you're gonna be uncomfortable.
You just reset and uh and keep climbing. So I'm
(14:58):
blessed to be in this position even though I do
feel some of that resistance.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
Yeah, I think it comes back to We've talked a
lot about just unfamiliar, right, which is like that's the
part of the brain that doesn't like unfamiliar. It likes
familiar comfort zone. Stay in the stay in the unhealthy relationships,
stay in the dead end job, do what's familiar. And
so immediately we have to do something unfamiliar, and that
(15:23):
part of the brain is trying to protect us, but
you know, it's just trying to keep us doing the
same old thing because it's familiar. And I think leaning
in and you know, finding our edge and being able
to relax at our edge or step out of our
comfort zone. I think this is the evolution. And you know,
if I look at you as a leader, yeah, the
on the field stuff is great, but my guess is
(15:46):
that a lot of your teammates are the majority of
your teammates are leaning on you for leadership because of
everything else beyond the field. Yeah, you've got tenure and
a lot of a lot more years than everybody else.
But I think it's it's those other qualities. And me personally,
if I think about the style of leadership that I
resonate with the most, it's it's like it's you. It's
(16:09):
the quiet, calm confidence. It's not the raw, raw, you know,
yell and kind of like you know, just that that
stuff brings me back to like Pop Warner days and
like you know, high school football, and it's just I
don't resonate with that more. Right, So I think just
your leadership style is something that I would really be
(16:29):
more influenced by as opposed to the raw, raw yelling stuff.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
No, totally get that, man. And I feel like, you know,
a major component of leadership as well is just like
what's your what's your motive, right, Like are you leading
for the simply for the influence or are you leading
for to have relationships with people? Because I feel like
at the end of the day, that's what a leadership
(16:55):
be about. And I feel like that's how I try
to go about my leadership. It's like, you know, just
like not trying to get too fast from you know,
task the task or get too quick to the stats
or like you know, where's mine but more so like
all right, I'm I'm talking to my team. If a
teammate waltks by me, I'm like, yo, how you doing? Man?
Like how's your head? How's your day going? Like if
(17:16):
if if I see a guy and he might be
dealing with an injury, and like how's your how's your
timetable coming? Like you know, what are you like asking
somebody about their journey, ask somebody about their family, and
kind of like build and starting from there because I
feel like when I do that, it'll give me more
of a know how to lead these people when it's time,
(17:38):
Like if it's really in a crunch situation or you know,
we're really you know, we're people's confidence is real and
or you know you're in a jam it's like, oh,
I know how to use my influence for the better
to help us collectively because I actually know this person.
I actually have taken the time to build a relationship
with them, have conversations with them, get to know their life,
(17:59):
what they may be struggling with, what they may be
trying to get over the hump on. So that's something
I try to take into account and you know, kind
of like affirm myself for like, yeah, this is I'm
covering my own lane with leadership, like this is a
this is a certain style, but at the same time,
you know, this has my own flavor on it. Nobody
can do it like me. I can do it in
a way that's inspirational and maybe challenge people that sometimes,
(18:23):
but it's also loving. Like at the end of the day,
those guys in the locker room know, like I just
enjoy being around y'all, and I know where you want
to go. I want to go in the same direction.
Let's do it together and let's take all the ego
out of it.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
You know, Oh man, I think you nailed it right
there with It's also important to kind of define have
our own definition of leadership because I think we all
have natural gifts and talents, and some are going to
be more vocal, some are going to be more high energy,
some are going to be more grounding and have that
calm confidence. But it it does come down to, like,
(18:58):
if we want to step up our leadership game, we
do have to step up our relationships. Emotionally intelligent and
people and leaders understand that their success and failure always
rests on the quality of their relationships. Right. It's kind
of like that trust and having that and it goes
beyond the surface level, right, And this is the essence
(19:18):
of why why we do this podcast and why we
talk about everything and share our stuff, right and bring
on guests who might maybe the world looks at as
like having all this shit together and then you know,
we get to break it down and they don't. And
it's that it's that that common bond, right to talk
about the struggles. And yeah, I think it all does
(19:40):
come down to relationships.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
No doubt in our comeback stories listeners and friends, brothers
and sisters, like the people that have been through struggle
like you and I, Donnie. It may we may be
trained to think like we may not have as much
to offer, or we may have disqualified ourselves from a
position of leadership. But really, at the end of the day,
(20:02):
we're the ones that are more or equipped for that
role because we can empathize with people. We've we've fallen,
and we can we can see, you know, maybe that
little bit of brokenness or that pain and in somebody else.
So when we achieve or assume a leadership position, we're
not gonna judge them, We're not gonna punish them, We're
not gonna, you know, look a look down on them
(20:24):
any type of way. We see them as our fellows,
as our brothers, as even we're not ahead of them,
we're not above them. They're right there with us, and
quite frankly, we have more experience to share. Like when
when crisis hits, do you want a leader that hasn't
been through anything, who everything's been you know, green pastors,
and has never faced the challenge. It's gonna be tough
(20:48):
because he's gonna have to learn in that moment what
a lot of us have learned on our lives journey
and continue to learn. It's like there's no escaping that,
there's no escaping failure, there's no and there I thought
there's people in leadership in the world today that feel
like if you failure is fatal in a way, you
know what I'm saying, When really it's like failure is necessary,
(21:10):
and we need that narrative being pushed more amongst people
because then people can be like, oh, yeah, I have
you know, gotten knocked in the dirt a little bit,
but oh that I could still make something happen. I
could still lead these young men on this team that
I'm coaching. I could still you know, be a mentor
to these kids in these in these rough areas that
(21:30):
don't have an example to look to. I can still
you know, lead in my book club, amongst you know,
wives in the neighborhood. It's like, wherever you are, like
the pain that you've experienced, the hurdles that you've faced
in life, like those are just equipping you to be
a better leader. And people need to know that, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
We all have way more influence than we'll ever imagine.
And people are watching, Your kids are watching, there's people
watching you, and you get to choose how you're going
to show up. And I just keep coming back to
this gift of the gift of desperation in our addiction
that gave us this gift of sobriety that gave us tools.
(22:14):
I'm coming back to, like the early on in sobriety,
it was the HOW acronym honesty, open minded, and willing,
and all we had to really do is walk into
these meetings and just be honest, open minded, and willing.
And I remember early on in twelve step meetings that
I would like because I really cared what other people think,
(22:34):
like I still do, but it's way better than it
used to be. And I would go into these meetings
and just like you know, not be listening and just
be waiting to like in my head about what I
was going to say because I wanted to impress or
like drop a nugget of wisdom. And then I would
go in and watch a newcomer come in just raw,
real honest, crying, showing emotion, and that person had so
(23:00):
much more influence on me than you know, someone that
was just dropping stuff out of the book or you know.
But then I would forget that and then still fall
back into that loop of like and it's like, no,
this is leadership. Like this kind of vulnerability and honesty
is everything that I need, because vulnerability back then was
like an issue for me. So I think, like you know,
(23:22):
it comes down to like these tools that we've been given,
and how like you can just you can be a
living example of leadership by living that how acronym of
just getting honest, getting honest with yourself. That's the self
reflection in the personal development part. Being open minded even
as a leader if you are at the top of
a leadership chain in a company, to still be open
(23:44):
minded that it doesn't have to be your way all
the time. And then willing right, willing to do the work,
willing to get your hands dirty with you know, the
people that are way below you on the ORG chart.
Like all of that is so important to me. That
is the most influential way to lead your people.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
That's so good man. Like if people, if you need
a blueprint on where to start as a leader, that's it.
Like just imagine the leader that you would want, Like,
imagine the leader that you would want if you were
the imperfect human being which you are like and you
were to mess up, and what kind of leader would
you want? Would you want a leader that feels you
(24:24):
could resonate with you and your failure. Would you want
a leader that anytime that you have an idea, they
would shoot it down. No, you want a leader that's
open minded to your ideas and wants to empower you
to have great ideas because that leader wants you to
be a leader one day. Like that's the ultimate goal,
Like leading from a place of I want to create
more leaders. I want to plant seeds. I don't want
(24:45):
it to just be like I'm leading and you guys
are my little minions, you know, as I go about
trying to do what I want and get what I
can get. No, it's about empowering you so that you
can continue to go on and be a leader in
your world and affect more people and have those leaders
affect more people and operate from that place. Because then
it's like we're creating the world we want, you know,
(25:09):
like Gandhi, we're being the change that we want to
see because we're choosing to lead from a place of
strong core values and plant the seed. Because you never
know what one person could could benefit from, Like like Donnie,
like you teaching your yoga class. You don't know somebody
could come in there and you could change their life
one day just by the way that you operate, by
(25:29):
the way that you are the way the energy that
you provide and that you radiate. So it is getting
to that frame of mind with leadership and what she
said about getting in touch with the newcomer and feeling
what they feel. I watched this movie on a plane recently.
It's called Tar. It's about this lady who's like this
(25:51):
world famous music composer, and you know, she achieved so
much power and influence that she almost becomes like drunk
off of that power. And she is like, you know,
cheating on her wife and like just you know, treating
like young musical students who are looking up to her.
(26:12):
She's just kind of bashing them and just like you know,
doing whatever she wants. And it almost feels like she's
invincible to consequences. And you know, I don't want to
ruin the movie for anybody, but at the end, at
the very end of the movie, there she talks about
there's a part in the movie like towards the beginning
she talks about like the source of music, where her
source of inspiration was, and just like the root of
(26:32):
just like loving to play music. And at the end,
when her power trip like just exhaust and just completely
burns her out, she goes back to that source and
becomes that has that beginner's mind again of like this
is where I started, like getting back in touch with
you know, just the rawness of what she loved at
(26:53):
that time, which I feel like is similar to getting
in touch with the newcomer, like me being six years
plus in sobriety, Like I still need to hear people's stories.
I still need to hear them being fresh off the
street in the urgency with which they want to be sober,
the urgency with which they want to change their lives,
because that's helping me. And it's like at the end
of the day, leaders don't know it all. Leaders still
(27:14):
need to be learning and to lead and create an
atmosphere in which people know like, hey, you're learning to
I'm learning right alongside you, and we're never finished products.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Yeah, I'm even coming back to that how acronym. You know,
if you're questioning how you are a leader, if you
don't think you're a leader, if you're in any kind
of romantic relationship, coming back to that, that how acronym
to be able to lead in the relationship, you know,
you got to be honest, Like that's that's going to
be really important, but also open minded, open minded to
(27:48):
getting help, getting feedback from your partner, which you know
as a as a male, like to the ego, it
doesn't always feel great, but it's not like our way
isn't always the right way. And then that willingness, right,
it's willing to again get outside help, willing to do
something different. That acronym just runs so deep, and it's
(28:10):
like how you do anything is how you do everything.
So you know you can take that and you can
you know, good or bad, whether you're using something for
a positive or negative, it's going to seep into every
major area of your life. And so you know, again
people are watching and you have no idea the influence
that you're making. And it just kind of comes back
to the podcast where you are referencing, you know, me
(28:32):
teaching a yoga class. But I know you're not on
social media, but like you know, the messages like you don't,
we don't realize, we're just we're me and you are
just chopping it up talking. But the beautiful thing about
having a positive influence on a platform like this is
like the messages that come through and all we're doing
(28:53):
is share in our story and providing space for other
people to share their story to align with our mission,
which was just to reach as many people as possible
to remind them that they're not alone. So, you know,
it's so nice that we get to lean on this,
this gift of recovery that we've gotten and the tools
it's given us to be able to lead. And sometimes
(29:13):
it's just by sharing our story and all the shady
and dumb stuff that we did in our addiction, so
that when we're honest about it and we share, like
you know, it can bankrupt that story of somebody else
thinking they're all messed up because they did this, and
then they hear that you know, you and I both
overdose and and we're still here, right. So yeah, I
(29:34):
think this is our responsibility to really utilize this platform
and lead by example just by just by being honest,
being real.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
Yeah, and being and being real comes with when you're real.
It's like a you hear people talk about purpose, and
one and one person I talked about or hear talk
about with purpose is you know, find what breaks your heart.
And you know, as people like us, I mean even
people that aren't in recovery that have been in touch
(30:06):
with that level of pain and that level of brokenness
and are honest about it and are open about it
and are willing to change it. In those moments you
find purpose, which I feel like leads to the next
component is like leading with a vision, Like when you
know what breaks your heart, you know what you want
to fix, like your your source of inspiration is right there,
(30:29):
Like you're going to attack that issue. You're going to lead,
and you're gonna lead until that vision comes into fruition
and you're going to continue to lead through it. And
I feel like a lot of people, you know, may
not necessarily have a vision or something that they're necessarily
that passionate about. It may be off of cardinal desires,
may be off of money. It maybe just be off
of power and things like that which don't ultimately empower
(30:54):
at the end of the day. And you know, you
talk about the world today is there's a lot of leaders.
And it's honestly been taught to us. It's honestly been
you know, presented to us in a way that is
attractive to to want to lead, to want to get
to the top of the mountain, to want to climb
and get up there and show people that what we've done,
(31:16):
but it's not really a way that is truly healthy
and truly fulfilling. That's why you hear about people that
are worth fifty million dollars, you know, putting a gun
in their mouth, or like people that achieve so much
success being so depressed because there's not something there necessarily
working towards and trying to lead others toward that is
(31:39):
really going to make a difference not only in them
but in so many other people. And I feel like
that's a that's another area, another realm that we have
to to get into as leaders of, Like you know,
what vision do I have that is going to have
a lasting impact long past when I'm done here, or
that lasts longer then I'm in the spotlight, or that
(32:02):
you know, like there's something that my children can continue
to walk in or grandchildren or just whatever it may be,
but something that's that's bigger than you, because I feel
like leadership in a lot of ways, it's like there's
no way it could be bigger than you, because ultimately
you want to lead for yourself and how it makes
you feel. And that's just something that I hope this
(32:24):
world can continue to just unpack and continue to talk
about continue to just face up and look in the
mirror and be like, damn, I really do think like that,
Like I do want this for myself. I do want
the influence for myself and the power for myself as
opposed to when you get it, is it going to
flow through you?
Speaker 3 (32:40):
So yeah, I think it's important to because purpose in leadership,
I mean, in my world and my mind go hand
in hand, and even just figuring out like well how
can I go lead? Well, it comes back to purpose,
which purpose is figuring out what your natural gifts and
talents are. Our purpose isn't static, right, It's not something
we declare a purpose statement and we live by about
(33:02):
the rest of our lives. Our purpose is dynamic. But
what's consistent and static are our natural gifts and talents.
And so if you're looking to lead, or you're looking
to find more purpose or live life with more purpose
on purpose, figure out what your natural gifts and talents
are and then use those to be of service, like
how can I use my gifts to help others and
(33:25):
lead others? Like That's really what it comes down to,
because otherwise you're kind of maybe leading it from a
place of inauthenticity, like you're just playing the role. You know,
when you know, someone gets to the top of the
ladder and they get that CEO or that leadership title
and they have no like relationship skills or you know,
emotional intelligence. It's like the example you gave in the movie.
(33:48):
It's it will create a very toxic environment and disrupt
a culture, whether it's a you know, if it's an organization,
a sports organization or a family. Like it all starts
at the top, and you know they say shit seeps downhill.
So you can turn into a positive. But again it
comes back to like people are watching. They're watching you,
(34:10):
and it doesn't cut. It's not about oh, carrying what
other people think. It's like that level of accountability, like
you are being a role model for somebody. They're watching
you out there, and so you get to choose how
to show up.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
And yeah, I think I think it's important to take
a second to honor and just empathize with these leaders
who who may not be leading in the way that
we would want them to or in the purest fashion,
because leadership isn't easy, especially when you have influence over
a lot of people. You're gonna be tempted by a
lot of things. You're gonna be tempted to go in
certain directions, tempted by things, tempted by metrics, tempted by
(34:51):
you know, funds, like whatever. It may be, tempted away
from your values, tempted away from what you're true to.
And we need to honor them. We need to pray
for them, We need to send loving energy, loving kindness
to them. And you know, I want to say something
that may not necessarily be that sexy, like serve your leaders,
(35:11):
even if that even if that leader above you, it
may not be the leader that you would want or
that you would envision being the best one, Like serve
them like because ultimately, one day, when you're a leader
and you're in a position, you're not going to be perfect.
You may take somebody off, you may ruffle somebody's feathers,
but at the end of the day, like, would you
(35:31):
want them to serve you still, just because even though
you messed up. That's a question we got to ask ourselves,
because we can't you know, put down leaders now just
because they may do certain things, Like we need to
try to honor them in any way possible, Like even
if we don't see eye to eye. Even if we
don't agree with everything that we're doing, we can still
try to see them as human being. That's that's trying
the lead that may be imperfect because we're no better
(35:56):
than them, because we're going to slip ourselves.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
So what would you say is like the main motivation
behind your your leadership today and how you're choosing to lead,
Like what's underneath it all for you?
Speaker 2 (36:12):
I would say motivation behind me for the way in
which I lead is for people to have no shame,
to show up as you know, who they authentically are.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
You know.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
I was a guest on a podcast recently and they
said they interviewed one of my current teammates before and
they asked him about me, and they said, yeah, he's
he's daring no matter what we're in a room he
walks into. And I was like, that's crazy, because I
spent most of my life like wearing different masks, trying
to be somebody different every room I went into. And
(36:44):
it's still tempting sometimes to do that and to not
because of that feeling of getting exposed or something. But
when I heard that, I was like, wow, like because
I never felt that way until up until recently about
being you know, in my own skin and showing up
and like being in a performance driven industry but not
(37:06):
having my whole piece be wrapped up in how I perform.
Like I can show up and be like in joke
and you know, be excited and be enthusiastic. You know,
even in moments where people want to be super wound
up and super tight and super serious. It doesn't mean
that I don't care. It doesn't mean that I don't
hold myself to a high standard and want you to
do the same as well. But it's like that fear
of of Darren Waller being a failure because football may
(37:31):
not have ended the way that I wanted to is like,
that's that's not a thing anymore. And I want people
to do that as well, because when you show up
in the locker room like that, when you show up
to work like that, free of that of that fear
or that shame of oh, if I don't win at this,
or if I do happen to fail fall in my face,
even in a public fashion like that, that it's over
(37:52):
for me. That's not the truth, because my reality is
every There are plenty of situations where it should have
been over for me, and it wasn't. And here I
am still writing my story. Here I am still you know,
continuing on a spiritual journey, trying to find peace, just
trying to you know, just cultivate more and more joy
in my life organically, and I want to see the
(38:13):
people around me do that, especially to men like women
as well for certain but as men, you know, we
carry so much on our shoulders and feel like we
got to do so many things and be so much
that we're not free as men, like we're always tied
to something, some habit, some addiction, something that is we're
(38:35):
just trying to take the edge off because we feel
like life is so hard and we always have to
be performing in a certain way when it's like that's
how I want to lead ultimately, is like to show
men there's a way to you know, have peace throughout
every situation that may come your way. It doesn't have
to steal the stillness and the calm that that you're
(38:56):
trying to cultivate.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
Yeah, just being able to be a witness of your
journey and the constancy of the work that you put in.
Forget about all the on the field stuff. I'm talking
about the daily journaling, the morning routines, the meditations, showing
up at meetings, like being of service, Like the consistency
(39:20):
I believe that you've been in the practice of has
allowed you to consistently show up as Darren and not
somebody else. It's like, the most self confident people are
the ones that keep the promises they make to themselves.
They do the things they say they're going to do.
And you know, if you're not doing those things, it's
really hard to be comfortable in your own skin and
(39:41):
really just be authentic. But if I think about the
qualities of like a good leader of today and the
people that I look up to the most, it's authenticity.
It's just like people that are real, right. But I
don't think you can get to that place if you
don't have going back to the qualities of a leader
of personal development and self reflection and the practices yes
(40:03):
leadership and our purpose it has to be something bigger
than us. But we still have to put us first
in terms of like our sacred practices, our rituals and
the things that are going to like allow us to
lead from a grounded place.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
And I want I want people to know about about
you as well, and your journey in your walk, Like
how are you still finding that desire and that motivation
and that commitment to lead in coaching and teaching yoga?
Like how do you stay grounded in you know, these
leadership principles we've been discussing.
Speaker 3 (40:41):
Man, I think it all comes down to I think
it's a Gary Vee quote that says, my selfishness is
my selflessness, because it goes down to the root of
my addiction, which was selfishness and self centeredness, and how
it was just like all about me, and you know,
the people that I dragged through the glass with me
(41:02):
and that addiction and the pain I put my family through,
and you know, just like really living a terrible, self destructive,
self centered lifestyle. And uh, it's just I never want
to go to that place again. And so I know
the way that I'm I get out of that is
just to serve to help others. But I also know
(41:23):
I can't show up in a real authentic way or
as the best version of myself if I don't have
my practices. I also know, as a coach and as
a leader, that you can only take your people as
far as you're willing to go again. This is why
we do the podcast and why we share our stories
and why we just try to keep it real, because
I think people will sniff that shit out in a
(41:45):
heartbeat if you're just like all bark and you're actually
not in the practices of these things. And I mean
that was me for a while, you know, even early
on in sobriety, but like you know, I was just
trying to figure my shit out. But like today, it
always just comes back to that because man, it was
like the contrast of you know, being an athlete and
then turning into this just disaster of a human. To
(42:09):
be honest with you, just the way I was living
my lifestyle and the people I was attracting into my life.
You know, this is another important part of why having
good leadership skills and embodying leadership is so important, because
your vibe attracts or tribe, so you end up attracting
more of those people in your life. Just like in
(42:30):
my addiction, Like the people I was attracting into my
life not so good, right, They were as lost as
I was. And so yeah, I think it's that And
also for me, it's getting close to people that have
something that I want Proximity is power, and so just
through like osmosis, I've had a gift of like if
I see somebody that has something that I want, and
(42:51):
I'm not talking about houses and material things, I'm talking
about a calm, confidence and inner peace, a stage presence,
a consistency, Like I just want to get close to
those people and grab a hold of a little bit
of what they have or learn and grow from them.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
That's so good man. I felt like this conversation is
bringing new meaning to remember when you were a kid
and adults would be like be a leader, not a follower,
and you're like, oh whatever, Like man, fuck off. But
it's like you never you didn't know back then, like
you know what following an example that isn't true to
(43:31):
you or authentic to your story or your journey where
it could lead you and ultimately where it led us
because I was following what somebody else described to me.
What was a form of peace, which was drugs, which
was alcohol, which was you know, a lot of different things,
but ultimately, at the end of the day, it was
(43:52):
me following an idea of what an ideal life would be, like,
what would make me happy, what would have me to
be fulfilled. And it's like as a kid, you're like, yeah, hey, mom,
like whatever, Like I'm just trying to have fun with
my friends. But eventually there's a there comes a point
in your life where you not even may not even
be aware of it. Like I wasn't aware of it.
(44:14):
I was too lost in the addiction. I was too
lost in you know, the the achievement, that the chase,
the hustle that I never could stop and ask myself
like what am I doing right now? Like am I
am I leading? Or am I following? Like being honest?
The age part of the of the acronym. It's like
I just think back on that phrase, and it's just like,
(44:35):
you know, we carry our inner child with us everywhere
that we go, you know, like you see me, I'm
by the time y'all hear this, I'll be thirty one
years old. But there's still that the little kid reactions.
There's still the little kid fears and insecurities in me
from back then. So it's like now, it's a lot
(44:56):
easier for me now to take that phrase and be
like okay, like I need to be conscious of this
on a daily basis, But how do we get that
conversation to where it's like when you're a kid, you're
conscious and you start, you know, crafting at your leadership
role as at the same age I started using drugs,
Like what, like, you know, what does it look like?
And I don't know, it's just something Nando that it's
popped in my head. But it's like a simple phrase
(45:19):
that was so overlooked but now has big time ramifications.
Here we are forty five minutes of babbling on how
important leadership is and it being one of the most
important commodities in the world, yet we can, you know,
overlook it in the most important part of our lives.
Speaker 3 (45:39):
What do you think You've had a lot of coaches.
I'm just curious from a football standpoint, what qualities of
leadership in coaching? And obviously not the name names or
anything with coaching, but like, what do you think is
lacking from the coaching staff? What qualities or quality is
lacking the most when it comes to leading from a
(46:00):
coaching standpoint.
Speaker 2 (46:03):
I feel like it's changing a lot these days because
football has been through errors, right, there was errors of football.
I mean I think I tasted it grown up in
the nineties when I started playing football, of like no emotions,
no crying, like get the get the bleep up, and
you know, rub some dirt on it, and it's like
(46:25):
you suck, like just you know, yelling right in your face,
just saliva in your face. And and it was like
that was a coach should do it, should just just
absolutely crush the player, just rip them a new one.
And that's what coaches were. But now it's a new world.
It's like people like we're acknowledging like the mental health
(46:48):
aspect of things. Like back in the day, there was
no mental health conversation, so people couldn't even speak on
or even realize that the way certain coaches, certain people
were talking to them and treating them was affecting their
mental health, was affecting their their confidence, was making them
anxious and tight to the point where they're taking the
field and thinking I don't want to fail as opposed
(47:09):
to I'm about to go make a play. So nowadays,
I feel like coaches are realizing that because you can
reach a divide with some players, like players today it's
like noh, like I like you, You're not going to
talk to me like that, Like we're on an evil
playing field here. It used to be like the coaches
is just talking down on the players and this is
what you do and then you go do it when
really it's like, ultimately we're working together. So there needs
(47:32):
to be a common level of respect. There needs to
be a common level of you know, at least trying
to see things from your perspective, meeting them halfway and
being like, Okay, I can't talk to these players like
this anymore. I need to create an environment that's empowering.
I need to create an environment that encourages these players
to not just be not just giving me the results
that I want, but to know like that they're they're
(47:53):
they're cared about here, They're valued here, their experience is
valued here as men, and that when they leave here,
I want them to be better. And that may take
yelling sometimes because they may not be living up to
this standard or they may be slacking in a certain way,
but a lot of the times it's just real conversation
showing them the real side of you. And you know,
I felt I've talked about a couple of times of
(48:15):
when I want to be when I'm a parent, I
feel like I'm going to be real with my kids
because a lot of times there's parents out here that
forget that they were fifteen years old, forget that they
were twenty something years old and made those mistakes or
acted a certain way when really it's like, I feel
like relationships could be better if you just put yourself
(48:37):
in the other person's shoes or just met them where
they were and saw common ground in it. And I
feel like coaches are starting to do that now. I
definitely feel like my head coach does that, the coaches
on our staff do that, and coaches that I've been around,
great coaches that you know, really are about you know what,
this is about my connection with you. First. This isn't
about me saving my ass or you know, trying to
(49:00):
get my promotion. No, it's about improving you as a player,
improving you as a man, and us going on this
journey together to where we can all grow, we can
all get better and achieve everything that we set out for.
And I feel like it's changing. You know, you see
a lot of young coaches. You see a lot more
younger coaches now, a lot more coaches that just have
that energy and can relate to players but also have
(49:22):
that elevated level of knowledge. And that's how you got
to be as a coach now because guys just ain't
aren't going to rock with you. They're not going to
run through a wall for you unless you're really trying
to meet them where they are and do it in
a loving way.
Speaker 3 (49:38):
Yeah, and I think this deserves the shout out to
all the athletes out there that have spoken up about
mental health, which again another leadership quality, that honesty and
that vulnerability, because I think it's taken individuals and athletes
like yourself and other ones that have talked around mental
health that like this is what we needed for a
(49:58):
shift in leadership, especially in a sport like football. You know,
that's for god knows how many years was all about
manning up and so manning up today looks a little different.
So again, this all stem from people speaking up and
talking about their struggles. Otherwise it would be like the
same old thing over and over again. So again it's
(50:19):
just like comes back to that, like that vulnerability and
that honesty and stepping up and sharing what you're going through.
It is so important. It's it's why Darren and I
you know, started this podcast. We say it all the time,
but you know, I think we've been We've been talking
a while on leadership, and I know we could talk
for a lot longer, but I think some nuggets or
(50:40):
some questions, especially from a servant leadership mindset or mentality,
some things that you can ask yourself, you know, you
just want to ask people or ask yourself, like what
do people need from me on a daily that maybe
they're afraid to ask for? Or what can like going
back to the personal development, what can I work on
that's going to help me show up and serve better?
(51:01):
And how am I going to know that I'm actually
serving people? Well, I think that is so important. You
can also get honest and say what is it like
for people to work for me? What is it like
for my children? Like taking an honest look at how
you're showing up for them? And yeah, I think it's
like what can I do every single day that's gonna
allow me to continue to step up my service game
(51:24):
because that's what it all comes down to. It's like
love and service and making sure we're showing up in
a real authentic way.
Speaker 2 (51:32):
That's so well said, bro. And yeah, man, if you
there's so many nuggets in here, I hope you guys
can dig back in re listen. If you need to
send to somebody, send to the leaders that you know,
Send to the leaders that are doing it. Send to
the leaders that are new, that may be experienced, that
could take something away from this, Go ahead and send
it to them, because we feel like here at comeback
(51:54):
Stories that ultimately your your comeback story and your respond
to adversity through resilience is only preparing you to be
the lead that you should be. It's preparing you to
be the leader that people need, that this world needs,
and it's you exactly as you are. And we're praying, hoping,
sending you all the good vibes to the good love,
(52:15):
the good energy that you would be able to step
into that and to step into that with confidence. So
on behalf of Donnie and myself. We appreciate you guys,
join us for another episode. I hope you guys like
rate comments, subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, whether it
be iHeartRadio, Apple, Spotify, you name it. You can also
(52:37):
find us on the Inflection Network on YouTube. But we're
just excited to continue on this journey with you guys
as always, and because we're all going to keep coming back.
We're all coming back. On a daily basis, whether it
be from something huge, something small, just responding to each
and every day showing up. Man, it's important because not
only do the people around you need it and are
(52:59):
looking towards you, but you got to look at that
mirror and love yourself and affirm yourself that you're right
where you're supposed to be on your journey. So we
appreciate you guys joining us and hope you guys rock
with us again next week. Peace We're Out.
Speaker 1 (53:16):
Comeback Stories is a production of Inflection Network and iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts.
Comeback Stories is a production of Inflection Network and iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Welcome back, everyone to another episode of Comeback Stories. I'm
one of your co host, Darren Waller. I'm joined as
always by my man, my running mate, my road dog,
Donnie starkins. Donnie, how you doing today? Bro?
Speaker 3 (00:21):
Oh Man, that's good. That's like automatic smile comes on
to my face when I see your face.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
No doubt Man's likewise, and I think this is the
very first episode. We're joined by my cat Spiro. So
if you guys hear him winding in the back me Allen,
just just know he means no harm. But we're excited
to be here today diving into a topic that Donnie
and I are both really passionate about, something that's really
unfolding in my life currently. We want to talk about
(00:47):
the topic of leadership, and I feel like it's something
that is constantly being unpacked, constantly being talked about, and
to a lot of people it may sound intimidating, it
may sound like it's outside of their reach, like they
may have to be a CEO or a president or
something grand in order to be a leader. But we
(01:08):
kind of want to debunk that today and give people
inspiration and just tips to help them lead wherever they're at,
because we're all leaders no matter what we're called to,
no matter if it's two people, no matter if it's
two million people. We all have that space that leveraged
that platform to be leaders and it's all about how
(01:30):
we approach it. And you know, the greatest the quote
I saw that keeps leadership simple is leadership is influence,
which you may have heard from John Maxwell. And it's
all about how you use that influence, whether it's for negative,
whether it's for positive. But we all have a choice
in our leadership. And you know, I'm just excited to
unpack this with you guys today. Donnie, what are your
(01:52):
opening thoughts when you think of leadership? What comes to
mind first? For you?
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Well, what comes to mind? There's a couple of things. First,
it's John Maxwell because I think he speaks and writes
on on that top better than anybody. I think his
last book was Leader Shift, which I love that name
because my coaching program is called The Shift. But yeah,
I think it is influence and we can influence positively
or negatively, and you're leading either way. But I think
(02:17):
the essence, I know we talk about this a lot.
Is it's service, right, it's serving others rather than being
self serving or actually wanting to be served by others.
I always like to say, if service is below you,
leadership is beyond you. And man, like, what a gift.
It always comes back to our addiction in our past
(02:38):
and the selfishness and self centeredness that gave us this
antidote to life. It's the greatest life hack, and that's
it's being of service. And it's just such a great
way to lead by example. I think the world is
changed by your example, not by your opinion. And in
a world of social media and a lot of noise
and some you know, leaders in our country and leaders
(03:00):
in our world that might not necessarily be leading by example,
that that it's important that really service is at the
root of it. But as you were, as I saw
your face, and as we're talking about leadership, it just
had me thinking about you know how I'm constantly in
the work of this and wanting to step up and
be a great leader and then sometimes maybe not. And
(03:22):
it can show up even in my relationship. Right, So
like this weekend, came out to see you, came out
to see you play, and my girl, my partner, she
banged up her ankle really bad in New York City
and she couldn't walk, and you kind of have to
be able to walk in New York City. So you know,
the selfish, self centered part of me was like, you know,
(03:45):
stay home, I'm going to go to the game. And
I just kind of had to like step up and
be a leader and make sure she felt taken care
of and sacrifice my own desires. And you know, I
think about initially the level of disappointment that I felt,
but also I started to embody a little bit right,
and it's like it's not her fault, you know what
(04:06):
I mean. And so it was just interesting as you
brought it up, and I'm like, wow, there was a
gap there where maybe I wasn't a good leader in
the relationship. Now luckily I don't think it lasted very long,
but long enough to have some contrasts there. So you know,
I think it's just a reminder that one leadership can
look and it shows up in all areas of our life.
(04:28):
And for me, it's just like constantly evolving from it.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Absolutely, man. And there's a quote I love it. You're
not responsible for your thoughts but you are responsible for
your action. So I feel like in that situation, just
because you had a thought of what you may have
wanted to do, you know, I wouldn't judge yourself for that,
you know, because your actions showed that, Hey, I'm gonna
make sure that she's okay. I'm gonna set the tone
(04:53):
here because she needs help and she's my partner. She's
most important to me, so I'm gonna let that be known.
And that's important man. And I feel like in order
for you to see that, and in order to not
do the people that are listening to disservice, I think
we need to start with Leadership is about leading yourself
before you get the opportunity to lead other people. And
(05:15):
the fact that you're leading yourself whereas it's showing compassion
to yourself, Like, hey, if you were in a certain
situation and you were hurting, you'd care for yourself. So
the fact that you know how to do that, you
can extend that to Maho instead of, you know, trying
to think just about yourself and what you may have
wanted in a moment. And I feel like a lot
(05:35):
of people want platforms, a lot of people want titles
and positions to be able to direct people or tell
people what to do. But where is your level of
leadership at for yourself? Like when nobody else is watching,
where's your level of discipline? Where's your level of you know,
self maintenance, you know, self motivation? Like these things have
(05:58):
to be taken into account because are you going to
be a CEO but you don't know how to work,
you don't have work ethic, or you you want to
be a coach, a head coach, but you don't know
how to serve, You don't know how to you know,
be a position coach first, you don't know how to
do all these things. So I feel like before we
dive into all these things and qualities that people can implement,
(06:18):
we got to start with saying like, hey, like we
need to be leading ourselves because ultimately, our desires and
our wants that are self centered will show if we're
not about you know, having that character and having that
proper influence that we should be policing in ourselves first
(06:39):
before we even start to want to have influence over
other people.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
Man, Yeah, it has me thinking about like a quality
of leadership is someone that really prioritizes self care and
personal development. Right, it's taking care of yourself. So there
is an aspect of it where yeah, you do have
to put yourself first before you can serve others. But
that personal development and the self reflection and our in
(07:05):
our recovery program, doing doing daily inventories and sitting in
our practices, it's so important because what it does is
it gives you more emotional intelligence, right, and emotional intelligence
is just the ability to control and express your emotions
as well as handle interpersonal relationships and conflict and when
(07:28):
things don't go your way. And you know, it's just
bringing me back to you know, my my scenario that
I brought up in New York City, and you know,
if I look back on it in my own self reflection,
yes there were thoughts, but I think those thoughts turned
into like leaky emotions a little bit. So luckily again
it didn't last long. But it's just, you know, I'm
(07:51):
aware of it, and I guess I you know, I
just I know the importance of humility and honesty, and
especially on this, you know, on our podcast, like you know,
we can sit here and spit all the wisdom and
knowledge that it's not ours, it's stuff that we learn
but I think it's more important to talk about like
the mess ups and where we're still lacking this and
(08:14):
also just our willingness to like want to do better,
you know, learn and grow from it.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Absolutely. Man. Yeah, like you said, we are people that
are living out these things as as you guys are, Like,
there's a new change and a new shift as far
as leadership in my life being in New York, being
on this new team, I'm one of the older guys
in the locker room. And no matter how long I mean,
(08:41):
the fact that I've been in the league so long,
getting close to a decade, Guys that are young, no
matter what I may be doing, no matter how good
I may be playing, how bad I may be playing,
they see me being in the league nine years just
about and they're like, well, how is he doing that?
Like I want to get there just that length of time.
And so for me, it's about Okay, how conscious of
(09:02):
am I of my routine, means, my my attitude, the
way that I treat people, just being about a collective
goal as opposed to an individual goal, and realizing that
I've adopted this place of leadership whether I want to
accept it or not, because usually you know who I am.
(09:23):
In my core, I kind of just want to blend in,
be quiet, you know, say some jokes, you know, kind
of be say things every now and then. But I
don't want to be the guy that's responsible for making
this thing go. But now, like I feel like God
is calling me out of that. He's not calling me
to just be this super raw, raw leader, but somebody
that can be more vocal, somebody that can share experience,
(09:44):
because me being in the NFL at least in that lead.
In this aspect of leadership of my life. I've been drafted,
been drafted late, I've been cut, I've signed big contracts,
I've been traded, I've been the pro bowler. I've also
been hurt on injured reserve. So there's not an experience
that I haven't add. So, you know, I honestly feel
(10:07):
like shame on me for not wanting to lead, Shame
on me for not wanting to share this experience with
other people, because it's not necessarily about my comfortability with it.
It's more so about how other people can learn. And
that goes back to that servanthood that you were talking
about earlier, Like being a leader is a servant it's
not about what I can take from people. It's about
what I can add. It's about what I can give.
It's about you know, other people being better versions of themselves,
(10:30):
growing just because they were around me and us working
to a collective goal, right like you think of this,
I remember this image I saw a long time ago
before I even wanted to even dive into leadership. It's
two different pictures of what people think leadership is and
what leadership actually is. And some people think leadership is
you know people kind of like carrying a throne like
kind of like some slaves back in the day, like
(10:54):
like way way back like BC, like Roman era, like
carrying a throne of like an emperor on it. The
emperor's pointing like work, we're going this way, but the
leader is kind of just like relaxing and boston people around.
Whereas the real image of leadership is that leader's out
in front doing exactly what others are doing, getting their
(11:14):
hands dirty, getting their feet, you know, ten toes on
the ground, like really out there on the front lines
and moving it. Not just calling out orders, calling out shots,
so just trying to you know, create this image of
you know, what leadership really is from a basic level
and just continue to add to that.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
From a football standpoint, what would you say like your
leadership style is today.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
I feel like it's hard for me to put it
into like one style because I feel like it's shifting
and evolving all the time, because, you know, naturally, I
want my leadership style to be kind of like leading
from the back, kind of like like the wolf situation.
I don't know if anybody's familiar with that, but leading
from the back essentially there's like a there's a wolf
(12:05):
in the front that's kind of leading the pack everywhere
they're going, but then there's a strong wolf that's also
in the back that's like keeping anybody from getting to
the weaker wolves or the wolves that are struggling, or
the or the children, like keeping everybody, you know, make
sure they're moving in the right direction. I feel like
that's natural to me. Of encouraging guys that may have
dropped the pass or made a bad player, made a mistake,
(12:26):
that wanted to just beat themselves up or dive into
self pity. I feel like that's natural for me because
I see myself kind of slipping into those areas as well.
But now it's you know, situations where I can be
more vocal, like you know, just real. Uh. Just recently
we had a game, first game of the season, and
we got mopped, like it was tough, and you know,
(12:46):
I've seen situations on the sideline and one of the
guys I've always looked up to, with my teammate, Tyrod Taylor,
he was like, hey, man, like, you know, lead these
guys like be you know, be more vocal, like you know,
they're gonna they're gonna listen to you. And it's like okay,
Like in that moment, I'm just kind of like all right,
like this is this is new territory for me, but
it's it's constantly expanding, so it's hard to put myself
into one style. But naturally me and myself, I'm a
(13:10):
guy like lead from the back, maybe not necessarily in
the front, leading rah rah. Like everybody sees like how
ray Lewis was like, that's leadership for sure, But you
don't have to be a leader to be that way.
And I hope people can see that because some people
aren't necessarily comfortable with getting out there and just and
giving a passion filled speech and just going all out,
(13:30):
like maybe we work ourselves into that, but we can
find a leadership role in the style for ourselves exactly
where we're at.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
Does it feel awkward to you to like be more
vocal and when tired like approaches you? Do you do
you feel the resistance initially or are you like taking
charge after you you get a comment like that from him?
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Yeah, I feel the resistance initially because it's not something
that that I've always done and I've always kind of
picked my spots and know like, all right, when I
say something, I'm going to have something to say. But
in that situation, it's like, okay, like these guys, these
guys trust me to to to say things that aren't
gonna be out of line, or that aren't gonna be
attacking people or that aren't gonna be scrutinized because I
(14:14):
am somebody that's careful with my words. I'm careful with
my actions. I'm careful with the way that I you know,
present myself in work and prepare. So it's it's a
matter of just kind of like throwing myself out there,
kind of like taking that leap of faith into it,
and uh, it's gonna take some time, you know, It's
still gonna be a little bit of that resistance, maybe
even for a while, but it's about pushing through it,
(14:35):
you know. Like I've always heard this pastor like name
is Tim Ross, he said, if you can't it's basically like,
if you can't do it brave, do it afraid. And
that's something that I'm embodying in a way to this
new these new chapters of my leadership, because you know,
as you go to new heights, you're gonna be uncomfortable.
You just reset and uh and keep climbing. So I'm
(14:58):
blessed to be in this position even though I do
feel some of that resistance.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
Yeah, I think it comes back to We've talked a
lot about just unfamiliar, right, which is like that's the
part of the brain that doesn't like unfamiliar. It likes
familiar comfort zone. Stay in the stay in the unhealthy relationships,
stay in the dead end job, do what's familiar. And
so immediately we have to do something unfamiliar, and that
(15:23):
part of the brain is trying to protect us, but
you know, it's just trying to keep us doing the
same old thing because it's familiar. And I think leaning
in and you know, finding our edge and being able
to relax at our edge or step out of our
comfort zone. I think this is the evolution. And you know,
if I look at you as a leader, yeah, the
on the field stuff is great, but my guess is
(15:46):
that a lot of your teammates are the majority of
your teammates are leaning on you for leadership because of
everything else beyond the field. Yeah, you've got tenure and
a lot of a lot more years than everybody else.
But I think it's it's those other qualities. And me personally,
if I think about the style of leadership that I
resonate with the most, it's it's like it's you. It's
(16:09):
the quiet, calm confidence. It's not the raw, raw, you know,
yell and kind of like you know, just that that
stuff brings me back to like Pop Warner days and
like you know, high school football, and it's just I
don't resonate with that more. Right, So I think just
your leadership style is something that I would really be
(16:29):
more influenced by as opposed to the raw, raw yelling stuff.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
No, totally get that, man. And I feel like, you know,
a major component of leadership as well is just like
what's your what's your motive, right, Like are you leading
for the simply for the influence or are you leading
for to have relationships with people? Because I feel like
at the end of the day, that's what a leadership
(16:55):
be about. And I feel like that's how I try
to go about my leadership. It's like, you know, just
like not trying to get too fast from you know,
task the task or get too quick to the stats
or like you know, where's mine but more so like
all right, I'm I'm talking to my team. If a
teammate waltks by me, I'm like, yo, how you doing? Man?
Like how's your head? How's your day going? Like if
(17:16):
if if I see a guy and he might be
dealing with an injury, and like how's your how's your
timetable coming? Like you know, what are you like asking
somebody about their journey, ask somebody about their family, and
kind of like build and starting from there because I
feel like when I do that, it'll give me more
of a know how to lead these people when it's time,
(17:38):
Like if it's really in a crunch situation or you know,
we're really you know, we're people's confidence is real and
or you know you're in a jam it's like, oh,
I know how to use my influence for the better
to help us collectively because I actually know this person.
I actually have taken the time to build a relationship
with them, have conversations with them, get to know their life,
(17:59):
what they may be struggling with, what they may be
trying to get over the hump on. So that's something
I try to take into account and you know, kind
of like affirm myself for like, yeah, this is I'm
covering my own lane with leadership, like this is a
this is a certain style, but at the same time,
you know, this has my own flavor on it. Nobody
can do it like me. I can do it in
a way that's inspirational and maybe challenge people that sometimes,
(18:23):
but it's also loving. Like at the end of the day,
those guys in the locker room know, like I just
enjoy being around y'all, and I know where you want
to go. I want to go in the same direction.
Let's do it together and let's take all the ego
out of it.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
You know, Oh man, I think you nailed it right
there with It's also important to kind of define have
our own definition of leadership because I think we all
have natural gifts and talents, and some are going to
be more vocal, some are going to be more high energy,
some are going to be more grounding and have that
calm confidence. But it it does come down to, like,
(18:58):
if we want to step up our leadership game, we
do have to step up our relationships. Emotionally intelligent and
people and leaders understand that their success and failure always
rests on the quality of their relationships. Right. It's kind
of like that trust and having that and it goes
beyond the surface level, right, And this is the essence
(19:18):
of why why we do this podcast and why we
talk about everything and share our stuff, right and bring
on guests who might maybe the world looks at as
like having all this shit together and then you know,
we get to break it down and they don't. And
it's that it's that that common bond, right to talk
about the struggles. And yeah, I think it all does
(19:40):
come down to relationships.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
No doubt in our comeback stories listeners and friends, brothers
and sisters, like the people that have been through struggle
like you and I, Donnie. It may we may be
trained to think like we may not have as much
to offer, or we may have disqualified ourselves from a
position of leadership. But really, at the end of the day,
(20:02):
we're the ones that are more or equipped for that
role because we can empathize with people. We've we've fallen,
and we can we can see, you know, maybe that
little bit of brokenness or that pain and in somebody else.
So when we achieve or assume a leadership position, we're
not gonna judge them, We're not gonna punish them, We're
not gonna, you know, look a look down on them
(20:24):
any type of way. We see them as our fellows,
as our brothers, as even we're not ahead of them,
we're not above them. They're right there with us, and
quite frankly, we have more experience to share. Like when
when crisis hits, do you want a leader that hasn't
been through anything, who everything's been you know, green pastors,
and has never faced the challenge. It's gonna be tough
(20:48):
because he's gonna have to learn in that moment what
a lot of us have learned on our lives journey
and continue to learn. It's like there's no escaping that,
there's no escaping failure, there's no and there I thought
there's people in leadership in the world today that feel
like if you failure is fatal in a way, you
know what I'm saying, When really it's like failure is necessary,
(21:10):
and we need that narrative being pushed more amongst people
because then people can be like, oh, yeah, I have
you know, gotten knocked in the dirt a little bit,
but oh that I could still make something happen. I
could still lead these young men on this team that
I'm coaching. I could still you know, be a mentor
to these kids in these in these rough areas that
(21:30):
don't have an example to look to. I can still
you know, lead in my book club, amongst you know,
wives in the neighborhood. It's like, wherever you are, like
the pain that you've experienced, the hurdles that you've faced
in life, like those are just equipping you to be
a better leader. And people need to know that, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
We all have way more influence than we'll ever imagine.
And people are watching, Your kids are watching, there's people
watching you, and you get to choose how you're going
to show up. And I just keep coming back to
this gift of the gift of desperation in our addiction
that gave us this gift of sobriety that gave us tools.
(22:14):
I'm coming back to, like the early on in sobriety,
it was the HOW acronym honesty, open minded, and willing,
and all we had to really do is walk into
these meetings and just be honest, open minded, and willing.
And I remember early on in twelve step meetings that
I would like because I really cared what other people think,
(22:34):
like I still do, but it's way better than it
used to be. And I would go into these meetings
and just like you know, not be listening and just
be waiting to like in my head about what I
was going to say because I wanted to impress or
like drop a nugget of wisdom. And then I would
go in and watch a newcomer come in just raw,
real honest, crying, showing emotion, and that person had so
(23:00):
much more influence on me than you know, someone that
was just dropping stuff out of the book or you know.
But then I would forget that and then still fall
back into that loop of like and it's like, no,
this is leadership. Like this kind of vulnerability and honesty
is everything that I need, because vulnerability back then was
like an issue for me. So I think, like you know,
(23:22):
it comes down to like these tools that we've been given,
and how like you can just you can be a
living example of leadership by living that how acronym of
just getting honest, getting honest with yourself. That's the self
reflection in the personal development part. Being open minded even
as a leader if you are at the top of
a leadership chain in a company, to still be open
(23:44):
minded that it doesn't have to be your way all
the time. And then willing right, willing to do the work,
willing to get your hands dirty with you know, the
people that are way below you on the ORG chart.
Like all of that is so important to me. That
is the most influential way to lead your people.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
That's so good man. Like if people, if you need
a blueprint on where to start as a leader, that's it.
Like just imagine the leader that you would want, Like,
imagine the leader that you would want if you were
the imperfect human being which you are like and you
were to mess up, and what kind of leader would
you want? Would you want a leader that feels you
(24:24):
could resonate with you and your failure. Would you want
a leader that anytime that you have an idea, they
would shoot it down. No, you want a leader that's
open minded to your ideas and wants to empower you
to have great ideas because that leader wants you to
be a leader one day. Like that's the ultimate goal,
Like leading from a place of I want to create
more leaders. I want to plant seeds. I don't want
(24:45):
it to just be like I'm leading and you guys
are my little minions, you know, as I go about
trying to do what I want and get what I
can get. No, it's about empowering you so that you
can continue to go on and be a leader in
your world and affect more people and have those leaders
affect more people and operate from that place. Because then
it's like we're creating the world we want, you know,
(25:09):
like Gandhi, we're being the change that we want to
see because we're choosing to lead from a place of
strong core values and plant the seed. Because you never
know what one person could could benefit from, Like like Donnie,
like you teaching your yoga class. You don't know somebody
could come in there and you could change their life
one day just by the way that you operate, by
(25:29):
the way that you are the way the energy that
you provide and that you radiate. So it is getting
to that frame of mind with leadership and what she
said about getting in touch with the newcomer and feeling
what they feel. I watched this movie on a plane recently.
It's called Tar. It's about this lady who's like this
(25:51):
world famous music composer, and you know, she achieved so
much power and influence that she almost becomes like drunk
off of that power. And she is like, you know,
cheating on her wife and like just you know, treating
like young musical students who are looking up to her.
(26:12):
She's just kind of bashing them and just like you know,
doing whatever she wants. And it almost feels like she's
invincible to consequences. And you know, I don't want to
ruin the movie for anybody, but at the end, at
the very end of the movie, there she talks about
there's a part in the movie like towards the beginning
she talks about like the source of music, where her
source of inspiration was, and just like the root of
(26:32):
just like loving to play music. And at the end,
when her power trip like just exhaust and just completely
burns her out, she goes back to that source and
becomes that has that beginner's mind again of like this
is where I started, like getting back in touch with
you know, just the rawness of what she loved at
(26:53):
that time, which I feel like is similar to getting
in touch with the newcomer, like me being six years
plus in sobriety, Like I still need to hear people's stories.
I still need to hear them being fresh off the
street in the urgency with which they want to be sober,
the urgency with which they want to change their lives,
because that's helping me. And it's like at the end
of the day, leaders don't know it all. Leaders still
(27:14):
need to be learning and to lead and create an
atmosphere in which people know like, hey, you're learning to
I'm learning right alongside you, and we're never finished products.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Yeah, I'm even coming back to that how acronym. You know,
if you're questioning how you are a leader, if you
don't think you're a leader, if you're in any kind
of romantic relationship, coming back to that, that how acronym
to be able to lead in the relationship, you know,
you got to be honest, Like that's that's going to
be really important, but also open minded, open minded to
(27:48):
getting help, getting feedback from your partner, which you know
as a as a male, like to the ego, it
doesn't always feel great, but it's not like our way
isn't always the right way. And then that willingness, right,
it's willing to again get outside help, willing to do
something different. That acronym just runs so deep, and it's
(28:10):
like how you do anything is how you do everything.
So you know you can take that and you can
you know, good or bad, whether you're using something for
a positive or negative, it's going to seep into every
major area of your life. And so you know, again
people are watching and you have no idea the influence
that you're making. And it just kind of comes back
to the podcast where you are referencing, you know, me
(28:32):
teaching a yoga class. But I know you're not on
social media, but like you know, the messages like you don't,
we don't realize, we're just we're me and you are
just chopping it up talking. But the beautiful thing about
having a positive influence on a platform like this is
like the messages that come through and all we're doing
(28:53):
is share in our story and providing space for other
people to share their story to align with our mission,
which was just to reach as many people as possible
to remind them that they're not alone. So, you know,
it's so nice that we get to lean on this,
this gift of recovery that we've gotten and the tools
it's given us to be able to lead. And sometimes
(29:13):
it's just by sharing our story and all the shady
and dumb stuff that we did in our addiction, so
that when we're honest about it and we share, like
you know, it can bankrupt that story of somebody else
thinking they're all messed up because they did this, and
then they hear that you know, you and I both
overdose and and we're still here, right. So yeah, I
(29:34):
think this is our responsibility to really utilize this platform
and lead by example just by just by being honest,
being real.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
Yeah, and being and being real comes with when you're real.
It's like a you hear people talk about purpose, and
one and one person I talked about or hear talk
about with purpose is you know, find what breaks your heart.
And you know, as people like us, I mean even
people that aren't in recovery that have been in touch
(30:06):
with that level of pain and that level of brokenness
and are honest about it and are open about it
and are willing to change it. In those moments you
find purpose, which I feel like leads to the next
component is like leading with a vision, Like when you
know what breaks your heart, you know what you want
to fix, like your your source of inspiration is right there,
(30:29):
Like you're going to attack that issue. You're going to lead,
and you're gonna lead until that vision comes into fruition
and you're going to continue to lead through it. And
I feel like a lot of people, you know, may
not necessarily have a vision or something that they're necessarily
that passionate about. It may be off of cardinal desires,
may be off of money. It maybe just be off
of power and things like that which don't ultimately empower
(30:54):
at the end of the day. And you know, you
talk about the world today is there's a lot of leaders.
And it's honestly been taught to us. It's honestly been
you know, presented to us in a way that is
attractive to to want to lead, to want to get
to the top of the mountain, to want to climb
and get up there and show people that what we've done,
(31:16):
but it's not really a way that is truly healthy
and truly fulfilling. That's why you hear about people that
are worth fifty million dollars, you know, putting a gun
in their mouth, or like people that achieve so much
success being so depressed because there's not something there necessarily
working towards and trying to lead others toward that is
(31:39):
really going to make a difference not only in them
but in so many other people. And I feel like
that's a that's another area, another realm that we have
to to get into as leaders of, Like you know,
what vision do I have that is going to have
a lasting impact long past when I'm done here, or
that lasts longer then I'm in the spotlight, or that
(32:02):
you know, like there's something that my children can continue
to walk in or grandchildren or just whatever it may be,
but something that's that's bigger than you, because I feel
like leadership in a lot of ways, it's like there's
no way it could be bigger than you, because ultimately
you want to lead for yourself and how it makes
you feel. And that's just something that I hope this
(32:24):
world can continue to just unpack and continue to talk
about continue to just face up and look in the
mirror and be like, damn, I really do think like that,
Like I do want this for myself. I do want
the influence for myself and the power for myself as
opposed to when you get it, is it going to
flow through you?
Speaker 3 (32:40):
So yeah, I think it's important to because purpose in leadership,
I mean, in my world and my mind go hand
in hand, and even just figuring out like well how
can I go lead? Well, it comes back to purpose,
which purpose is figuring out what your natural gifts and
talents are. Our purpose isn't static, right, It's not something
we declare a purpose statement and we live by about
(33:02):
the rest of our lives. Our purpose is dynamic. But
what's consistent and static are our natural gifts and talents.
And so if you're looking to lead, or you're looking
to find more purpose or live life with more purpose
on purpose, figure out what your natural gifts and talents
are and then use those to be of service, like
how can I use my gifts to help others and
(33:25):
lead others? Like That's really what it comes down to,
because otherwise you're kind of maybe leading it from a
place of inauthenticity, like you're just playing the role. You know,
when you know, someone gets to the top of the
ladder and they get that CEO or that leadership title
and they have no like relationship skills or you know,
emotional intelligence. It's like the example you gave in the movie.
(33:48):
It's it will create a very toxic environment and disrupt
a culture, whether it's a you know, if it's an organization,
a sports organization or a family. Like it all starts
at the top, and you know they say shit seeps downhill.
So you can turn into a positive. But again it
comes back to like people are watching. They're watching you,
(34:10):
and it doesn't cut. It's not about oh, carrying what
other people think. It's like that level of accountability, like
you are being a role model for somebody. They're watching
you out there, and so you get to choose how
to show up.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
And yeah, I think I think it's important to take
a second to honor and just empathize with these leaders
who who may not be leading in the way that
we would want them to or in the purest fashion,
because leadership isn't easy, especially when you have influence over
a lot of people. You're gonna be tempted by a
lot of things. You're gonna be tempted to go in
certain directions, tempted by things, tempted by metrics, tempted by
(34:51):
you know, funds, like whatever. It may be, tempted away
from your values, tempted away from what you're true to.
And we need to honor them. We need to pray
for them, We need to send loving energy, loving kindness
to them. And you know, I want to say something
that may not necessarily be that sexy, like serve your leaders,
(35:11):
even if that even if that leader above you, it
may not be the leader that you would want or
that you would envision being the best one, Like serve
them like because ultimately, one day, when you're a leader
and you're in a position, you're not going to be perfect.
You may take somebody off, you may ruffle somebody's feathers,
but at the end of the day, like, would you
(35:31):
want them to serve you still, just because even though
you messed up. That's a question we got to ask ourselves,
because we can't you know, put down leaders now just
because they may do certain things, Like we need to
try to honor them in any way possible, Like even
if we don't see eye to eye. Even if we
don't agree with everything that we're doing, we can still
try to see them as human being. That's that's trying
the lead that may be imperfect because we're no better
(35:56):
than them, because we're going to slip ourselves.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
So what would you say is like the main motivation
behind your your leadership today and how you're choosing to lead,
Like what's underneath it all for you?
Speaker 2 (36:12):
I would say motivation behind me for the way in
which I lead is for people to have no shame,
to show up as you know, who they authentically are.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
You know.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
I was a guest on a podcast recently and they
said they interviewed one of my current teammates before and
they asked him about me, and they said, yeah, he's
he's daring no matter what we're in a room he
walks into. And I was like, that's crazy, because I
spent most of my life like wearing different masks, trying
to be somebody different every room I went into. And
(36:44):
it's still tempting sometimes to do that and to not
because of that feeling of getting exposed or something. But
when I heard that, I was like, wow, like because
I never felt that way until up until recently about
being you know, in my own skin and showing up
and like being in a performance driven industry but not
(37:06):
having my whole piece be wrapped up in how I perform.
Like I can show up and be like in joke
and you know, be excited and be enthusiastic. You know,
even in moments where people want to be super wound
up and super tight and super serious. It doesn't mean
that I don't care. It doesn't mean that I don't
hold myself to a high standard and want you to
do the same as well. But it's like that fear
of of Darren Waller being a failure because football may
(37:31):
not have ended the way that I wanted to is like,
that's that's not a thing anymore. And I want people
to do that as well, because when you show up
in the locker room like that, when you show up
to work like that, free of that of that fear
or that shame of oh, if I don't win at this,
or if I do happen to fail fall in my face,
even in a public fashion like that, that it's over
(37:52):
for me. That's not the truth, because my reality is
every There are plenty of situations where it should have
been over for me, and it wasn't. And here I
am still writing my story. Here I am still you know,
continuing on a spiritual journey, trying to find peace, just
trying to you know, just cultivate more and more joy
in my life organically, and I want to see the
(38:13):
people around me do that, especially to men like women
as well for certain but as men, you know, we
carry so much on our shoulders and feel like we
got to do so many things and be so much
that we're not free as men, like we're always tied
to something, some habit, some addiction, something that is we're
(38:35):
just trying to take the edge off because we feel
like life is so hard and we always have to
be performing in a certain way when it's like that's
how I want to lead ultimately, is like to show
men there's a way to you know, have peace throughout
every situation that may come your way. It doesn't have
to steal the stillness and the calm that that you're
(38:56):
trying to cultivate.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
Yeah, just being able to be a witness of your
journey and the constancy of the work that you put in.
Forget about all the on the field stuff. I'm talking
about the daily journaling, the morning routines, the meditations, showing
up at meetings, like being of service, Like the consistency
(39:20):
I believe that you've been in the practice of has
allowed you to consistently show up as Darren and not
somebody else. It's like, the most self confident people are
the ones that keep the promises they make to themselves.
They do the things they say they're going to do.
And you know, if you're not doing those things, it's
really hard to be comfortable in your own skin and
(39:41):
really just be authentic. But if I think about the
qualities of like a good leader of today and the
people that I look up to the most, it's authenticity.
It's just like people that are real, right. But I
don't think you can get to that place if you
don't have going back to the qualities of a leader
of personal development and self reflection and the practices yes
(40:03):
leadership and our purpose it has to be something bigger
than us. But we still have to put us first
in terms of like our sacred practices, our rituals and
the things that are going to like allow us to
lead from a grounded place.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
And I want I want people to know about about
you as well, and your journey in your walk, Like
how are you still finding that desire and that motivation
and that commitment to lead in coaching and teaching yoga?
Like how do you stay grounded in you know, these
leadership principles we've been discussing.
Speaker 3 (40:41):
Man, I think it all comes down to I think
it's a Gary Vee quote that says, my selfishness is
my selflessness, because it goes down to the root of
my addiction, which was selfishness and self centeredness, and how
it was just like all about me, and you know,
the people that I dragged through the glass with me
(41:02):
and that addiction and the pain I put my family through,
and you know, just like really living a terrible, self destructive,
self centered lifestyle. And uh, it's just I never want
to go to that place again. And so I know
the way that I'm I get out of that is
just to serve to help others. But I also know
(41:23):
I can't show up in a real authentic way or
as the best version of myself if I don't have
my practices. I also know, as a coach and as
a leader, that you can only take your people as
far as you're willing to go again. This is why
we do the podcast and why we share our stories
and why we just try to keep it real, because
I think people will sniff that shit out in a
(41:45):
heartbeat if you're just like all bark and you're actually
not in the practices of these things. And I mean
that was me for a while, you know, even early
on in sobriety, but like you know, I was just
trying to figure my shit out. But like today, it
always just comes back to that because man, it was
like the contrast of you know, being an athlete and
then turning into this just disaster of a human. To
(42:09):
be honest with you, just the way I was living
my lifestyle and the people I was attracting into my life.
You know, this is another important part of why having
good leadership skills and embodying leadership is so important, because
your vibe attracts or tribe, so you end up attracting
more of those people in your life. Just like in
(42:30):
my addiction, Like the people I was attracting into my
life not so good, right, They were as lost as
I was. And so yeah, I think it's that And
also for me, it's getting close to people that have
something that I want Proximity is power, and so just
through like osmosis, I've had a gift of like if
I see somebody that has something that I want, and
(42:51):
I'm not talking about houses and material things, I'm talking
about a calm, confidence and inner peace, a stage presence,
a consistency, Like I just want to get close to
those people and grab a hold of a little bit
of what they have or learn and grow from them.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
That's so good man. I felt like this conversation is
bringing new meaning to remember when you were a kid
and adults would be like be a leader, not a follower,
and you're like, oh whatever, Like man, fuck off. But
it's like you never you didn't know back then, like
you know what following an example that isn't true to
(43:31):
you or authentic to your story or your journey where
it could lead you and ultimately where it led us
because I was following what somebody else described to me.
What was a form of peace, which was drugs, which
was alcohol, which was you know, a lot of different things,
but ultimately, at the end of the day, it was
(43:52):
me following an idea of what an ideal life would be, like,
what would make me happy, what would have me to
be fulfilled. And it's like as a kid, you're like, yeah, hey, mom,
like whatever, Like I'm just trying to have fun with
my friends. But eventually there's a there comes a point
in your life where you not even may not even
be aware of it. Like I wasn't aware of it.
(44:14):
I was too lost in the addiction. I was too
lost in you know, the the achievement, that the chase,
the hustle that I never could stop and ask myself
like what am I doing right now? Like am I
am I leading? Or am I following? Like being honest?
The age part of the of the acronym. It's like
I just think back on that phrase, and it's just like,
(44:35):
you know, we carry our inner child with us everywhere
that we go, you know, like you see me, I'm
by the time y'all hear this, I'll be thirty one
years old. But there's still that the little kid reactions.
There's still the little kid fears and insecurities in me
from back then. So it's like now, it's a lot
(44:56):
easier for me now to take that phrase and be
like okay, like I need to be conscious of this
on a daily basis, But how do we get that
conversation to where it's like when you're a kid, you're
conscious and you start, you know, crafting at your leadership
role as at the same age I started using drugs,
Like what, like, you know, what does it look like?
And I don't know, it's just something Nando that it's
popped in my head. But it's like a simple phrase
(45:19):
that was so overlooked but now has big time ramifications.
Here we are forty five minutes of babbling on how
important leadership is and it being one of the most
important commodities in the world, yet we can, you know,
overlook it in the most important part of our lives.
Speaker 3 (45:39):
What do you think You've had a lot of coaches.
I'm just curious from a football standpoint, what qualities of
leadership in coaching? And obviously not the name names or
anything with coaching, but like, what do you think is
lacking from the coaching staff? What qualities or quality is
lacking the most when it comes to leading from a
(46:00):
coaching standpoint.
Speaker 2 (46:03):
I feel like it's changing a lot these days because
football has been through errors, right, there was errors of football.
I mean I think I tasted it grown up in
the nineties when I started playing football, of like no emotions,
no crying, like get the get the bleep up, and
you know, rub some dirt on it, and it's like
(46:25):
you suck, like just you know, yelling right in your face,
just saliva in your face. And and it was like
that was a coach should do it, should just just
absolutely crush the player, just rip them a new one.
And that's what coaches were. But now it's a new world.
It's like people like we're acknowledging like the mental health
(46:48):
aspect of things. Like back in the day, there was
no mental health conversation, so people couldn't even speak on
or even realize that the way certain coaches, certain people
were talking to them and treating them was affecting their
mental health, was affecting their their confidence, was making them
anxious and tight to the point where they're taking the
field and thinking I don't want to fail as opposed
(47:09):
to I'm about to go make a play. So nowadays,
I feel like coaches are realizing that because you can
reach a divide with some players, like players today it's
like noh, like I like you, You're not going to
talk to me like that, Like we're on an evil
playing field here. It used to be like the coaches
is just talking down on the players and this is
what you do and then you go do it when
really it's like, ultimately we're working together. So there needs
(47:32):
to be a common level of respect. There needs to
be a common level of you know, at least trying
to see things from your perspective, meeting them halfway and
being like, Okay, I can't talk to these players like
this anymore. I need to create an environment that's empowering.
I need to create an environment that encourages these players
to not just be not just giving me the results
that I want, but to know like that they're they're
(47:53):
they're cared about here, They're valued here, their experience is
valued here as men, and that when they leave here,
I want them to be better. And that may take
yelling sometimes because they may not be living up to
this standard or they may be slacking in a certain way,
but a lot of the times it's just real conversation
showing them the real side of you. And you know,
I felt I've talked about a couple of times of
(48:15):
when I want to be when I'm a parent, I
feel like I'm going to be real with my kids
because a lot of times there's parents out here that
forget that they were fifteen years old, forget that they
were twenty something years old and made those mistakes or
acted a certain way when really it's like, I feel
like relationships could be better if you just put yourself
(48:37):
in the other person's shoes or just met them where
they were and saw common ground in it. And I
feel like coaches are starting to do that now. I
definitely feel like my head coach does that, the coaches
on our staff do that, and coaches that I've been around,
great coaches that you know, really are about you know what,
this is about my connection with you. First. This isn't
about me saving my ass or you know, trying to
(49:00):
get my promotion. No, it's about improving you as a player,
improving you as a man, and us going on this
journey together to where we can all grow, we can
all get better and achieve everything that we set out for.
And I feel like it's changing. You know, you see
a lot of young coaches. You see a lot more
younger coaches now, a lot more coaches that just have
that energy and can relate to players but also have
(49:22):
that elevated level of knowledge. And that's how you got
to be as a coach now because guys just ain't
aren't going to rock with you. They're not going to
run through a wall for you unless you're really trying
to meet them where they are and do it in
a loving way.
Speaker 3 (49:38):
Yeah, and I think this deserves the shout out to
all the athletes out there that have spoken up about
mental health, which again another leadership quality, that honesty and
that vulnerability, because I think it's taken individuals and athletes
like yourself and other ones that have talked around mental
health that like this is what we needed for a
(49:58):
shift in leadership, especially in a sport like football. You know,
that's for god knows how many years was all about
manning up and so manning up today looks a little different.
So again, this all stem from people speaking up and
talking about their struggles. Otherwise it would be like the
same old thing over and over again. So again it's
(50:19):
just like comes back to that, like that vulnerability and
that honesty and stepping up and sharing what you're going through.
It is so important. It's it's why Darren and I
you know, started this podcast. We say it all the time,
but you know, I think we've been We've been talking
a while on leadership, and I know we could talk
for a lot longer, but I think some nuggets or
(50:40):
some questions, especially from a servant leadership mindset or mentality,
some things that you can ask yourself, you know, you
just want to ask people or ask yourself, like what
do people need from me on a daily that maybe
they're afraid to ask for? Or what can like going
back to the personal development, what can I work on
that's going to help me show up and serve better?
(51:01):
And how am I going to know that I'm actually
serving people? Well, I think that is so important. You
can also get honest and say what is it like
for people to work for me? What is it like
for my children? Like taking an honest look at how
you're showing up for them? And yeah, I think it's
like what can I do every single day that's gonna
allow me to continue to step up my service game
(51:24):
because that's what it all comes down to. It's like
love and service and making sure we're showing up in
a real authentic way.
Speaker 2 (51:32):
That's so well said, bro. And yeah, man, if you
there's so many nuggets in here, I hope you guys
can dig back in re listen. If you need to
send to somebody, send to the leaders that you know,
Send to the leaders that are doing it. Send to
the leaders that are new, that may be experienced, that
could take something away from this, Go ahead and send
it to them, because we feel like here at comeback
(51:54):
Stories that ultimately your your comeback story and your respond
to adversity through resilience is only preparing you to be
the lead that you should be. It's preparing you to
be the leader that people need, that this world needs,
and it's you exactly as you are. And we're praying, hoping,
sending you all the good vibes to the good love,
(52:15):
the good energy that you would be able to step
into that and to step into that with confidence. So
on behalf of Donnie and myself. We appreciate you guys,
join us for another episode. I hope you guys like
rate comments, subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, whether it
be iHeartRadio, Apple, Spotify, you name it. You can also
(52:37):
find us on the Inflection Network on YouTube. But we're
just excited to continue on this journey with you guys
as always, and because we're all going to keep coming back.
We're all coming back. On a daily basis, whether it
be from something huge, something small, just responding to each
and every day showing up. Man, it's important because not
only do the people around you need it and are
(52:59):
looking towards you, but you got to look at that
mirror and love yourself and affirm yourself that you're right
where you're supposed to be on your journey. So we
appreciate you guys joining us and hope you guys rock
with us again next week. Peace We're Out.
Speaker 1 (53:16):
Comeback Stories is a production of Inflection Network and iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts.
Hosts And Creators
Eric Balchunas
Donny Starkins
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