October 5, 2023 • 50 mins
Step into a world of personal growth and unwavering faith as hosts Darren and Donny welcome Deborah Joy Winans. In this episode, Deborah brings her extraordinary journey to life, imparting the wisdom she gained from turning 40, surmounting life's hurdles, and uncovering the transformative force of self-love. Deborah's remarkable strength shines as she candidly discusses her personal battle to conquer a challenging pregnancy. Join us for an episode of 'Comeback Stories' that promises to enrich your soul and renew your sense of self-love and faith. Deborah Joy Winans' heartfelt words will remind you that, regardless of life's challenges, you are indeed on the right path and cherished unconditionally.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Comeback Stories is a production of Inflection Network and iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Welcome back, everyone to another episode of Comeback Stories. Darren Waller,
one year co host. I'm here as always with my
brother and my friend, mister Donnie Starkins, and we have
an amazing guest today on with us. Somebody who's from
their last name. He may recognize them as a member
of a legendary gospel family, but somebody that's carved her
own path, not only singing but acting as well. And
(00:39):
we'd love to welcome missus, Deborah Joy Wine us to
the show. Deborah Joy. Deborah Joy, how you doing not Deborah?
Speaker 3 (00:46):
I love it, Deborah Joy projecting, I love it.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
Hi, how are you all?
Speaker 5 (00:51):
We're doing fantastic good.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
I'm very happy to be here. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 5 (00:56):
Oh yeah, it's lovely to have you here.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
When we talk about comeback Stories and the adversity that
people have faced in their orn along the way, we
felt like we always had to go back to the
childhood to you know, get some answers and to see
where everything started. And so could you paint a picture
of what growing up was like, where it was, what
your family situation was, what was going on in your head.
Speaker 5 (01:19):
Just take us through it, Okay.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Growing up, I am from Detroit, Michigan, born and raised
into a very very big family. So family is truly
all I've ever known. Grew up in church, love the Lord.
That is truly my foundation. We were probably in church
more than we were in school. It's just it was
(01:47):
it made me really who I am today. But grew
up in church, and I was always with my family,
my brothers, my aunts, my uncles, all of my family sang.
And when I was getting ready to graduate from high school,
I knew that singing was not something I loved.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
I wanted to act. And when I told my family,
they were.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Like, oh, okay, well what else do you want to
do because they had never seen me do it. But
for some reason, it was just it was a passion,
it was a dream. It was something that was just
in my bones that I could not let go of.
And so I went to Wayne State, which was also
in Detroit with Wayne State University, and I majored in theater.
(02:31):
And my family, particularly my brothers and my parents came
to my first show at Wayne State and they were like, Okay,
this is what you do. But for a lot of
my family. That just wasn't the entertainment business as far
as acting and the things that you could see on
screen and the things that people would do that wasn't
(02:55):
truly something that people of faith would do.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
But for me, that was.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
What I felt God had put in my heart, in
my spirit, in my soul, and so I just followed
the dream that I fully believe God gave me, even
though there were a lot of doubts in my family,
and not doubts that I could do it, but doubts
that I should do it, doubts that it was what
God had for me. But I believe that God gives
(03:24):
you the vision for your life and others will catch
on eventually, and if they don't, they don't. But it's
all good. You are following what God has given you.
But it was very, very difficult. A lot of times
I would look at my family and think, maybe they're right,
maybe I'm in the wrong place. Is God gonna bless this?
(03:44):
Can he bless this? Does He really know my heart?
Does He know that I love him? Just wondering that
if a life of faith and the dreams that I
had could coexist. So that was sort of my journey
growing up, and I'm a big family girl, a big
(04:05):
family girl. Like if my family was singing somewhere, I
was the number one fan. I was the person screaming
like I had never heard them sing before. I was
the person dancing in the aisle. I was the person
cheering when you needed to be quiet. And that is
the person that I still am today. I was always
going to champion everybody in my family because I believed
(04:26):
in them, and so I found it difficult when I
got to a place of really focusing in on the
thing that I really felt like God had given me
to do, and I didn't see all of them cheering
in the background for me.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
But that was that was my life growing up.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
I know that takes a lot of courage to to
step into at some point because I remember me as
a kid. I knew I had, you know, gifts and
callings in music and in other areas, but I knew
I was I was really good at sports as well,
and that's what you know, people kind of know me
for now.
Speaker 5 (05:02):
But I didn't have the courage to be different.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
I was so afraid of not being seen as normal
or not being able to fit in and just be
loved and accepted that. I was like, I'm just gonna
do what everybody else says. It's cool what everybody else
says is is, and that's a little different than your journey.
But just as far as talking to the getting to
the place of courage and stepping out and saying, hey,
this is my journey and being comfortable in your own skin.
(05:29):
I didn't feel comfortable in my own skin until probably
twenty seven years old and having to go through a lot,
God having to take me through a lot. So to
see that courage that you must up, like how how
is that possible? Like how do you? How do you
arrive there? For somebody like is it they have to
go through their own journey to get there?
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Absolutely think I think it's I think it's going through
your own journey.
Speaker 4 (05:58):
But I think it's really love you.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
I have found that it is very difficult to move
forward towards your destiny, your dreams, your goals when you
don't fully love you, and I mean love every piece
of you, the piece of you that you think, oh,
I need to change that. That's not good because we
all have flaws, we all have things that as we
grow we're like, oh, maybe that's not the best character trait.
(06:31):
But if we don't see it and recognize it and
love ourselves, it is hard to make a change. And
so I think the thing that I would tell people
to find the courage means to find the love of you.
And I think when you love you and you love
who God has created you to be, as you grow
(06:54):
and as you journey in this life, you'll see the
things that Ah, Okay, I think I want to change that.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
And that's fine.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Okay, you know this, this was okay for now. But
you know, I think I'm moving higher. I think God
is taking me somewhere different. I think I'm growing in
a different way, and I want to let that go.
I want to shed that. That's been the biggest thing
that has helped me, and that has been It's come
in phases, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
I didn't just like.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Oh, I'm still going to go to school for theater
and it's going to be fine.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
I didn't feel that way at all.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
I did it, but I did not feel like I
was courageous at all. I just was like, I think
I'm by myself, but I did my BFA. I'm the
first person in the Wining's family to get a bachelor's degree.
Speaker 4 (07:44):
So I got my BFA.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
I spent a month in Moscow at the Moscow Art
Theater School, and then I moved to La got my
MFA in acting from cal Arts. I just kept going,
kept going because I felt like if this was the
gift that I knew God gave me, I just wanted
to make it sharp.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
I wanted to make it great. I wanted to be excellent.
So all of that is part of the journey of
loving yourself.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
I found that I am doing the thing that I know,
I love, that God has given me to do. So
I think that I fell in love with that piece
of me, the hard work, the discipline piece of me.
And then as things started to pick up, and you know,
things were happening and I was doing the very thing
that I love, I still got different things from people
(08:31):
close to me that I deemed mentors, people that I
would go to and talk to about everything in life,
Upset that I was doing what I was doing, Upset
sort of at my career trajectory and at the choices
that I had made. And so it wasn't until about
(08:54):
maybe I just turned forty, So it wasn't until maybe
thirty like thirty five, I started feeling it. I was like,
you know what, it's fine. I have my husband, I'm good,
I know what God has given me, and I'm going
to courageously walk into this new life, this journey. I
(09:15):
am going to fully be me, no exceptions. I'm not
feeling bad because someone else doesn't agree.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
But then, baby, when.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
I was about to have my baby, I had just
turned thirty eight, and I did this pregnancy reveal with essence,
and I thought it was fabulous. And then someone very
close to me didn't like that and told me that
was not of God and all these things, and I thought, oh,
(09:47):
that was the last bit of shedding that I needed.
I am boldly standing in who I am. I want
to tell you can't tell me nothing. I had a
baby at a age where everyone says, this is.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
What do they call it?
Speaker 3 (10:03):
It's they call it a certain type of pregnancy, a geriatric.
Speaker 6 (10:09):
Baby.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
They call you geriatric after like.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Thirty three or something, and so they're already saying it's
a geriatric pregnancy. They're already saying I had a I
had a fibroid that was twenty two centimeters. So when
I got pregnant, the doctor's initial response was, Oh, we
should get rid of this, because there's no way this
baby you'll be able to grow with this fibroid.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
We need to get rid of it start over.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
And I looked at my husband and he was like, well,
is she going to be okay? And the doctor said, well,
she'll be fine, but she'll probably be in the worst
pain of her life. And I said, well, if it's pain,
then we're gonna fight, We're gonna hold on. And was
it painful, Yes, the worst pain of my life. Did
I feel like I was living on eggshells because the
(10:56):
doctor said, I don't know if you'll make it past
eighteen weeks.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
I had to have a surgery in the middle of
my pregnancy to make sure the baby didn't come too soon.
And the doctor was like, get me to twenty eight weeks.
And we prayed and we believed, and I was in
a place where, for the first time in my life,
I could not see the other side of the circumstances.
(11:22):
I feel like in every other circumstance, whether it felt
good or not, I just knew God was gonna give
me to the other side. This was the first time
where I was like I can't even see what the
other side is. I don't know if I'm half this baby.
I don't know what's happening to me, Like, I just
don't know. And when we got to twenty eight weeks
(11:42):
and we had a baby shower, I took a breath
and I was like, God, you did this. And so
once I had a baby, I was like, you can't
tell me nothing. I'm not sure who you think you are,
but I do know who God has created.
Speaker 6 (11:55):
Me to be.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
And so it took me levels.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
It took me moment by moment to walk through this
journey and to find courage in each circumstance.
Speaker 4 (12:09):
So this has been a build up of courage.
Speaker 7 (12:14):
Wow, there's so much there going back to I was
having breakfast today with a mutual friend of Darren and
I is His name is David g. He's an amazing
meditation teacher here out in California, and I was telling
him who our guest was and he goes, you realize,
you know, you're interviewing this is music royalty, you know,
(12:35):
And he was just like breaking it down because he's
just he's.
Speaker 6 (12:38):
Into all that and just really knows the details.
Speaker 7 (12:41):
And I kept thinking, like, how do you, And Darren
kind of asked this question, but how do you find
your own in a family of royalty like that, especially
when you've got the royalty piece of it, You've got
projection of people's interpretation of religious beliefs and what is
the right or wrong thing to do.
Speaker 6 (13:00):
So yeah, I mean, I know you walked us through.
Speaker 7 (13:03):
That, but I'm just thinking about how challenging that would
be with the domestication process of just growing up and
you know, people telling us we need to do certain
things in order to be successful.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
Oh. Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
I think I've learned from watching having a front row
seat to sort of what this life in the entertainment
industry has looked like for my family and what I've
always kept in mind, even when sometimes it was some
(13:38):
of them telling me, oh no, no, Joy, that's that's
not it. They broke barriers at a time where the
music that they started singing seemed.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
Secular to most Christians.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
A lot of people thought that their music was the
devil's music because it just didn't sound like traditional gospel music.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
But they persevered.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
They kept going because they felt like it was what
God had given them to do, and ultimately got used
that to really break barriers, to set a standard, to
create a foundation that we have lived on, that we
have been grateful for, I think for generations to come.
Speaker 4 (14:22):
So for me, I keep that in mind.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
While they may not see it, I know that they recognize,
Oh you guys just don't see it. You don't have
the vision. And that's okay, we have it. You'll catch
on eventually. So I think that I've kept that as
something to sort of hold on to and go back
to when I'm feeling like, oh joy, this doesn't look
(14:45):
like everybody else, it doesn't have to for me. I
never singing was never my passion, that was never my love.
I have sense, you know, if I talk to kids
or just have a conversation really with anyone who asks
how did you get into the industry, or what do
you like about the industry singing. While it has never
(15:06):
been a passion of mine, it is a gift. And
I tell people use every gift that God has given you,
because you don't know when you will be called upon
to use it. And truly that gift is not for you.
It is meant for the world. It is meant to
touch somebody somewhere somehow. And so my only thing is
I wish I would have also given as much time
(15:29):
and focus and practice and discipline to my singing.
Speaker 4 (15:34):
But all in all, this was just.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
A step by step sort of situation, and people will
either get on the bandwagon or they won't. But it
is difficult feeling like the very people that see you
don't really see you. But also look trust God. That
(16:02):
is my biggest advice that I can give to anybody.
Trust God. Trust that gut instinct that you have, because
you don't want to look back and think I didn't
do this when I wanted to do it because so
and so said something? Who is so and so? Are
you about to pay all my bills? Are you about
to set me up for life? Are you about to
(16:23):
you know, no, you're not doing any of those things.
So recognizing someone's perspective and their ideas versus what God
has given you and what.
Speaker 4 (16:33):
You want to do, I think that's that's the key.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
He come back to trusting God, and I'm the same way.
I don't know how I would have gotten through the
things that I've survived and just able to hold up
the weight that I have on me today without him.
And I feel like I love for you to dive
into how you developed like an authentic love for the Lord,
(17:00):
because I feel like even with me growing up, I was,
you know, I want to My family was you know,
always in church, but church felt like a chore and
it felt like an obligation. And my religion was almost
transactional with God, like if I if I read the Bible,
if I went to you know, Bible study or midweek church,
(17:20):
that God owed me a blessing. But and then when
things got rough in my life, I didn't really I
felt like God was judging me and condemning me as
opposed to having that real relationship. So how how does
one go about developing a love of the Lord and
a loving relationship with him?
Speaker 4 (17:38):
You know, That's a really good question. And I think
for me.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
It was the foundation that my family set, and I
think that you don't always have to agree on everything
to recognize the good in something.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
And I think it.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Was the six Aim prayers that I did not want
to go to, but our parents woke us up and
made us go. Because while I don't remember just getting
there and getting on my knees and praying real hard,
I do remember being next to my grandma and hearing
how she would pray. She talked to the Lord very
(18:25):
matter of fact. It didn't have to be this big voice,
it didn't have to be these incredible words.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
Her vocabulary didn't have to be through the roof.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
It was Lord, I love you, Lord, I thank you, Lord,
I thank you for waking me up. I thank you
for a mind to want to love you, to want
to do right. Thank you for my family. And so
I would hear the way she prayed, and I thought, oh,
I can do that.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
That's not difficult.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
And then I would hear the way my grandfather, just
the joy that he would have talking about the Lord
and everything God had done for him, and then I
would see it in my own life. So I went
from hearing my parents pray, hearing my grandma pray, seeing
my grandfather pray and testify to the things that God
(19:22):
had done, things that he had seen, and then seeing
God in my life pray for certain things and then
they happen, and I'm like, ooh.
Speaker 4 (19:33):
Okay, this is okay, all right.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
But then I think the biggest thing for me was
holding on to it when adversity came, when it felt
like I wasn't enough, when it felt like everything I
did just didn't add up, and like, God, where are you?
I don't understand. I think my faith and my love
(19:57):
increased circumstance by circumstance as I saw God.
Speaker 4 (20:03):
Through it all.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
You know, it's easy to praise Him when everything is wonderful.
It is very difficult to still say thank you Lord
when you're in the middle of a storm, when you
are in the middle of not being able to see
your way out. And I think I've learned that even
(20:28):
through that. Like I spoke about being, I was working
on set when well, I found out I was pregnant.
Then I had to go and do a job. So
I was working on a set without my husband, newly pregnant,
in an immense amount of pain, and I literally said,
(20:50):
I don't know where God is. What did I do
to be in this wilderness? Like, I don't understand? And
then I started to change my perspective and I was like, Okay,
if I feel like I'm in a wilderness, Lord, what
are you trying to show me? Have I not been
depending on you enough? I am very happy to say
(21:14):
that I married Well. When I tell you I love
my husband, it is the best yes I've ever said
in my life second to loving Jesus, I'm so very
grateful he has shown me how to love myself the
way I need to. So, you know, choosing a spouse
is a really choose right because they can lead you
(21:35):
into your destiny. And so I think for me, I
started to see I've started to trust the gift more
than the giver. I started leaning so much on my
husband that I forgot about my relationship with the Lord
and everything. For me, everything is flowing from him. And
(21:56):
so I think for me, I started finding lessons in
the wilderness.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
It's like, I don't want to be here.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
I don't know why I'm here, But you know what,
let's figure that out so that I don't have to
come here again. And so I think my love has
to just continue to develop from stage to stage.
Speaker 4 (22:17):
But it's simple.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
It's loving the Lord and learning how much he loves
me and trusting that even in the hard times.
Speaker 7 (22:26):
Darren, I got to say, Man, I'm loving how you've
really made yourself at home in the big city. I'm curious,
how are you getting around?
Speaker 6 (22:33):
You a subway guy, cab uber.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
I'm glad you're asked, Donnie, Man, I'm a got the
honor to partner with All American Forward over in New Jersey.
They've been taking really good care of me since I
got out here, and that's why I love the most
about it. Man, they treat me like I'm family, not
just a customer trying to get a deal or just
a statistic.
Speaker 5 (22:51):
You know.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
They give me great service. You could tell they got
to commitment to quality. The innovation is unmatched. And just
so if anybody's you know, like me, trying to get
around in New Jersey, don't know where to go, I'm
telling you go check out All American Forward here in Jersey.
They gon'n take real good care of you.
Speaker 7 (23:07):
When we come back, you'll hear more of this inspiring
comeback story.
Speaker 6 (23:13):
It's beautiful.
Speaker 7 (23:14):
I wanted to tie back your faith with I love
how you dove right into loving yourself in the beginning.
Speaker 6 (23:19):
And just for some context, that's been a theme of
mine for the.
Speaker 7 (23:23):
Last probably ten years with my brand, and I have
a retreat every year in January. I do in so
Doana call love Yourself. And the reason why I've been
so passionate about this message is because no matter where
I go and teach or speak or do some type
of event. There's a common theme that we don't love
ourselves enough. Whether it's the way that we have that
(23:44):
not enough story hijacking our life, or it's the way
we critique our body, or when we must make a
mistake or fail in some way, or or feeling inadequate,
or it's when we're putting everybody else's needs before our
own needs. That is the common theme. It's like everywhere
I go. And so I've been so passionate about this
message because I've seen the damage that it's done, not
(24:06):
only to myself but to the people that I'm exposed to.
Speaker 6 (24:10):
So how do you feel like for you, how.
Speaker 7 (24:13):
Does the security of knowing that you are fully loved
by God? How does that help you with your own
self love and not allowing that not enough story to
creep in, Especially in the industry that you're in, which
I would have to imagine there's a lot of there's
a lot of rejection.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
Ooh, there's a lot of rejection. That's a really, really,
really good question, Donnie. I think that when you fully know,
so if we're saying God loves us unconditionally, and that's
been a big thing for me because I think a
(24:56):
lot of times people put God in things that God
is like, I ain't got none to do with that play.
God is love, And if you don't have love, then
I really truly don't know what you have. And so
when you recognize that love is who God is and
that he loves you unconditionally right now as you are,
(25:19):
with all the flaws, you see, God loves you. When
I recognize that, I think there was something that.
Speaker 4 (25:29):
Really just sort of switched in me. If the creator
of this universe.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
Loves me unconditionally the way that I am, who are
you to tell me that I'm not great? Who are
you to tell me that I can't do this? And
then even to yourself when you start thinking, which I
have so much being in this industry, Oh they wanted
(25:55):
the light skinned girl. Oh they said dark skin isn't
pretty enough. Oh I'm not thin enough. Oh I'm not.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
There's so many you're not You're not.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
I've had to tell myself and people don't realize how
powerful language is. The tongue is very powerful, and you
have to speak life to yourself. So I've had to
change my atmosphere. I've had to change what people are
sort of downloading into me, Oh, they said you're not.
(26:28):
Oh okay, well I am. They just didn't they wanted
something different, you know what I mean. So I've had
to have my daily sort of affirmations. You are beautiful,
you are smart, you are intelligent, You are where you're
meant to be. A lot of times we look at
other people's journeys and we think I should be there. No, no, no,
(26:50):
you don't know what they've gone through to get there.
You don't know what their journey has been. Like your
journey is for you stay in your lane, and I
think that that has been.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
What has helped me. Does that make sense?
Speaker 5 (27:06):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (27:07):
I think it's no matter what you choose to believe in.
I think it's so important. Darren and I have talked about.
Speaker 7 (27:13):
This, how faith relieves us from the burden of excessive responsibility.
Speaker 6 (27:17):
But it's also having that relationship and understanding.
Speaker 7 (27:20):
That God is love, and if God is love and
we are one with God, then we are loved and
we are love. And if we truly know that and
we have that faith, and anything that comes up in
our lives, whether it's a relationship, a job, an opportunity,
if not this something better, if not.
Speaker 6 (27:39):
This something better, like that.
Speaker 7 (27:41):
That affirmation has always stayed with me, that true knowing
that it's all happening for us and if this relationship
isn't gonna work, there's gonna be something better. And that's
really just like, help me a lot not be so
attached to something that I think needs to.
Speaker 6 (27:58):
Be in my life.
Speaker 7 (27:58):
And yeah, God is usually moving it out of there
to make space for something new. But we get hooked
and attached and afraid that we're going to lose something
and never find it again.
Speaker 4 (28:09):
We do and it's difficult. It is.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
It is very, very difficult. So I don't say it
as like all you gotta do is you know, know
that God is love and you're going to be great. No,
it is very difficult. This is a daily thing for me.
This is thank you Lord. I'm grateful for the journey
that you've had me on.
Speaker 4 (28:31):
I am. And I think that as you get older,
you're able you.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
Know, hindsight is twenty twenty. You are able to look
back and be like, whoo, I see why I had
to go through this, this, this, and this, I see
and you see the character that has been developed in
you and how God has groomed you to be who
you're supposed to be for where you're going.
Speaker 6 (28:54):
You know.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
I think that if I would have gotten everything I
asked for at like twenty two, I honestly don't know
where I would be. I don't think I would have
my husband. I don't think I would have my son.
I don't know that I would have this career. I
don't know where I would be. So God knows what
we can handle and also what I love. Oprah Winfrey
(29:20):
once said, love is in the details. And God dreams
bigger dreams for you than you can dream for yourself.
So while you've got all these big dreams, God is
dreaming bigger. So if this doesn't work, trust that God's
dream for you is working and you're getting there.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Man, I gotta put another layer on that, because one
of the greatest books I've ever read is by a pastor.
It's called The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry, And in the
book he talks about how love and hurry are incompatible
because love, love takes.
Speaker 5 (29:56):
Time, you know, and God being love, it may it.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
May take time for whatever your season is, whatever your
journey is in you know, especially like whatever is for
your purpose to be fulfilled. And I love to know, like,
what has the journey been for you, Like when it
comes to cultivating purpose, because you have tremendous gifts in
multiple fields and maximizing those takes a lot of time,
(30:21):
a lot of effort, a lot of resources.
Speaker 5 (30:23):
But how have you found purpose within all that?
Speaker 4 (30:27):
Dang, that's good.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
That's a good question, you know. I think one time
I was just randomly singing. I'll just sing a song,
not even really thinking about it. It just will happen.
And one time someone I was working with on set
just said, ooh, that just touched my soul. And I said, oh, huh,
(30:52):
you're so silly, and she said, I'm very serious. I
don't know what it is about your voice, but it
goes right to my soul. It just got my like
joy you need to And I went to my trophy and.
Speaker 4 (31:06):
I thought.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
That was just some random him that popped up. I
wasn't trying to do anything fancy with it. It just
sort of came from me.
Speaker 4 (31:19):
And I realized that God.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
Touches everything, and so when you sort of relinquish your
control on things and you just trust that what it
is you want to do and you start flowing from that,
(31:47):
God is using that to touch so many people in
so many different ways that you would never think of.
And so I think for me, I've moved gradually in
that way of just resting, assured that God is in it,
(32:08):
if I'm moving with the right motivation, if I am
recognizing that life is a journey, God is in all
of it.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
God is in every relationship you're making.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
We're so we're so in a hurry to get to
the thing that we think is the penultimate thing when
we and we missed the in betweens. I just turned
forty and I could not believe the amount of people
that were at my birthday party. When I walked out,
(32:44):
I was in tears because I saw so many faces
and they knew every face, and to think that they
were all part of my journey, and I would if
I would have hurried and rushed through the journey, I
wouldn't have some of these relationships and have shared so
(33:06):
many moments with this person that said, oh my God,
if it wasn't for you checking in on me, I
just don't know what I would have done or prayed
with this person when they felt like they had nobody
that understood that prayer could work.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
When you rush through.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
Life, you missed the moments that God is trying to use.
And when you have those moments, you can have a
party and look out and see God in all of it.
See every relationship, see whether it's work, whether it's friendship,
whether it was romantic. You see God over your life
(33:46):
when you don't rush through it. And I think for me,
that has been my thing to just sort of move
from a place of love and trust that even if
I don't see it, if I don't recognize the gift,
if I don't think it means anything, to know that
maybe God is using it somewhere, somehow for somebody. And
(34:11):
so I think it's like you said, it's not a hurry.
You got to live this thing. You have to feel
all of it, the good and the bad. And when
you recognize that you have to feel.
Speaker 4 (34:23):
The good and the bad.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
I tend to trust that God is in all of
it and He's gonna bring me through it. And so
then you can look back and you can see his
hand in every single thing. The circumstances that you thought
were not necessary for your growth. You look back and
you're like, oh, but I made this friend. Oh and
I made this friend this has been a lifelong relationship.
(34:48):
I've poured into them, They've poured into me. Where would
I be if I didn't have this. That's my idea
of it, just taking the journey and being happy with
the journey, not trying to rush any peace of it.
And when you don't rush it, you see God in
all of it.
Speaker 7 (35:09):
I want to just take us back even to what
you were saying about you singing and the person on
set that heard you singing. And for me, I always
say that God speaks to me through the mouths of
other people.
Speaker 6 (35:19):
That's where I hear God the most.
Speaker 7 (35:22):
And as you were walking us through that that scenario,
it was like she was hearing God through your voice.
You were hearing God through her voice as a reminder
of this gift.
Speaker 6 (35:34):
That you have.
Speaker 7 (35:35):
And then it brought me to kind of Darren and
I talk a lot about the four Agreements and being
impeccable with.
Speaker 6 (35:41):
Your word and how your word.
Speaker 7 (35:43):
You know, there's two two sides to the sword, and
that your word can neither, you know, send love and light,
or it can cut through like a like a sharp knife.
Speaker 6 (35:52):
And yeah, that was just a beautiful scenario.
Speaker 7 (35:55):
And I believe like if getting to the rushing that
we talked about, like life only unfolds in moments. It's
it's moment to moment, and if we're not present for
those moments, we end up missing.
Speaker 6 (36:07):
Out on what's most valuable in our lives.
Speaker 7 (36:09):
And you know, I've heard you say like we're constantly
looking for ways to prove, you know, that that that
were good enough, instead of just fully understanding like we
are enough.
Speaker 6 (36:21):
Right, We're trying to prove instead of recognized.
Speaker 7 (36:24):
And I think that's like the power of the pause
and taking time to be still. So I'm just curious
for you, like what are your mindfulness practices. Do you
have rituals, practices, mantras that you do to really center
yourself and get present.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
Well, I think I love I love the power of
the pause. That was really really great, And I think
for me.
Speaker 4 (36:52):
It's a reminder sort of daily.
Speaker 3 (36:58):
Like I said, I have my my affirmations that I
know I need to speak to myself. I have affirmation
that I speak over my home, that I speak about
my marriage, that I speak over my son, because I
do believe that we also can speak things into existence.
(37:19):
There is life in what you say, So watch what
you say.
Speaker 4 (37:25):
So yeah, for me, it's prayer.
Speaker 3 (37:29):
It's not only just telling myself who I know I am,
because you really you need to know who you are
before you walk into anybody's room, because they're going to
tell you who you are if you don't.
Speaker 4 (37:41):
So knowing who.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
I am, trusting who I am, trusting what God has
given me to do, walking boldly in that, and then
also I get blessed from telling other people that they're great.
I think I recognized a long time ago, while this
industry is very difficult, I am not in competition. I
(38:07):
think there's room for everybody. Whatever dreams and goals God
has given you, there is room for everybody to fulfill
their destiny. And so I've never felt like I'm in
competition with anybody. So it's very easy for me to
see someone and say, oh my god, you look beautiful.
Oh that's stunning. We could be going in for the
same audition, Oh my god, you look great.
Speaker 4 (38:29):
Gone girl.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
Or just speaking life into other people is a blessing
to me, and you never know what that can do
for them. You never know where they're head space is at.
You don't know where they are mentally, you don't know
what they've just been through. You know, they barely made
it through that door. And so knowing that the small
things you can do a smile, a handshake, a hug,
(38:52):
you look wonderful or welcome or how are you a
genuine how are you can change somebody's life. So those
are also practices that I have put into motion that
really truly blessed me. You know, it's it's easiest to
bless yourself when you're blessing others.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
It's better to give than receive. I mean, I remember,
I remember the first time somebody, uh, I'm a Donnie
and I have been in a twelve step recovery and
in meetings, I remember an old timer saying, you know,
if you want a friend, be a friend, and you know,
getting yourself out of this place of like me receiving
(39:34):
before I give first. And it's like, if I'm following,
if I'm following God, if I'm in relationship with God,
then my character and how I lived my life should
be in alignment with Him, in alignment with with what
how he would act, and and what you said about
like comparing yourself to other people, It's like that's like
(39:54):
the number one thief of joy. I mean, if you're
you log you log onto social media at any point
in time, your your joy could be stolen from you
if you allow it to. So it's it's so important,
especially nowadays too. I think you spoke on it earlier,
just like protecting like what you're consuming and what you're
taking in, Like you really have to be locked in
(40:17):
on that because the world today is going to have
you spinning.
Speaker 5 (40:21):
Like a top and just like you're love in a
many different.
Speaker 3 (40:24):
Directions, have you thinking you crazy, you know, And it's
and it's amazing to me how social media can really
have somebody in.
Speaker 4 (40:34):
A frenzy, y'all.
Speaker 3 (40:36):
Almost ninety nine point nine percent of this stuff is
you know, airbrushed, touched up all the like. This is
not people post the things that make them happy. You
do not typically post the things that are hurting you,
that are breaking you down, that you don't see a
(40:56):
way out of. And when we recognize that, we don't
let it consume us. You know, social media can be
used as a tool, but if you are not ready
to use it like that and understand it and truly
love yourself, I think.
Speaker 4 (41:16):
It is very difficult. I think it is very very difficult.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
It feels like a thief comeing to take every piece
of joy that you have. And that's one thing that
I tell myself too, Donnie, a reminder the world didn't
give it to me, so the world can't take it away.
Speaker 4 (41:33):
Like this joy that I have, the world did not
give it to me.
Speaker 7 (41:37):
So that's like that, as you may, the whole idea
of conditional happiness.
Speaker 6 (41:43):
And I think that's why.
Speaker 7 (41:44):
Most of our world, or much of our world is
struggling so bad, because of the idea of like, I'll
be happy when I get this, or when I get
the likes, or when I get.
Speaker 6 (41:54):
The car or the marriage.
Speaker 7 (41:56):
And it's like, no, you have to figure out that
happiness happens in the now.
Speaker 6 (42:00):
Happiness is an inside job. And yeah, you know what
makes me happy.
Speaker 7 (42:04):
And I heard you say like a lot of the
when you were referencing the social media where a lot
of people are posting what makes them happy. And it's
always a good reminder to me because I think my
life changed forever when I actually shared my shit and
shared my mess and I found like I feel like
I found my voice. It humanized me as a teacher.
(42:26):
It's also how I connected with Darren him hearing his
short story, and I've heard you say that if you're
not showing who you are, how are others gonna actually
see the way? And when you and I heard that,
I was like, Wow, this is exactly why we are
sitting here in this moment, the three of us having
(42:47):
this conversation. And my teacher would always say, how dare
we not? And I get it, like in Darren and
NIC's program, it's known to be anonymous, but I think
I just had to choose impact over anonymity. And again
those words for my teacher, how dare I not share
my story when there's opportunities to help so many other people,
(43:09):
not by how great my life is now, but how
bad it was. Yeah, and then that willingness to just
surrender and lay it all down and actually get honest
and ask for some help.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
Yeah, That's that's what it's about. That's where change happens.
That's I remember. I went through so many things when
I got pregnant, and I'm just like, is this normal?
Speaker 5 (43:39):
Well?
Speaker 3 (43:39):
How come nobody nobody told me about this? Why didn't
someone tell me that this could happen? Or this is
what you go through? Like a lot of times, the
stories that I heard women made it sound like pregnancy
was all roses, and ah, this is delightful, and oh
my child, Oh they're just amazing. My child started kicking
(44:00):
and I was like, oh my goodness, this is this
the earthquake happening. There were just so many things that
I did not know to expect that are typical, and
then understanding after I found out I had the fibroids,
finding out how common it is in women of color,
(44:21):
and then I start asking around and it's like.
Speaker 4 (44:24):
Oh, oh yeah, I had that.
Speaker 3 (44:25):
Oh yeah, you know, you got to get checked for
those because a lot of times doctors won't check you
for it, and so you have to ask them to check.
Speaker 4 (44:32):
I'm like, wait, what, why didn't I know this? I
wish I would have known.
Speaker 3 (44:37):
And that's what led me to share my pregnancy journey
with Essence, because I want somebody to know.
Speaker 4 (44:44):
I know there are women coming behind me that want
to get pregnant.
Speaker 3 (44:47):
If you're a woman of color, ask your doctor to
check you for this, because had I been checked, I
would have had a way.
Speaker 4 (44:55):
Better pregnancy because I would have gotten and removed.
Speaker 3 (44:58):
But you just don't know unless people are talking, unless
people are sharing what they've been through, and I want
to to share it so that people understood, No, this
has not been Roses. This is something you can do
to advocate for yourself. This is something you need to do,
and it's okay. Don't feel shamed. Don't feel like because
a lot of women I talked to felt shame. They
(45:19):
didn't really want to share because it's not normal. Well, honey,
it kind of sort of is. But also who cares.
If you've been through this, you can help somebody else.
Somebody else doesn't have to go through the same thing
you went through. That's what I think about. From my son,
I'm enduring certain things so that he doesn't have to,
you know what I mean. So we have to share.
(45:41):
We have to be honest because honesty brings about change.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
That's I mean, like you said, we feel you, Donnie,
and I for sure, because I mean, I'm somebody that's
I had no plans on being vocal about my journey
with Droy's alcohol and all things that I've been through,
but I feel like that's where my purpose has come from,
and now it's about you know, somebody's life can be different,
somebody's experience can be different because of my vulnerability because
(46:08):
of what I'm willing to share. I'm willing to get
up here and show you my scars. And it's like,
you know, because they're no longer open wounds, they're they're
healed now. They're still there, but they're there for a reason.
Speaker 5 (46:20):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (46:21):
We salute you, We respect you for being vulnerable, showing
the path so many women, whether it's pregnancy, whether it's
you know, stepping out into their gifts and their calling
that they know is true to themselves, dealing with any
rejection along the way, even dealing with the success and
how traumatizing success can be at times. Your vulnerability has
(46:42):
been amazing. I'm walking away from this conversation lit up and.
Speaker 5 (46:46):
Just honor to have shared this time and this platform
with you.
Speaker 3 (46:50):
So we're grateful, Thank you, Thank you so much, Darren.
This has really been a pleasure. I appreciate it. I
don't take it for granted anytime I'm able to talk
and share anything, because I think that these are the
moments that God gives us to be a light to someone,
to share something that could touch and change. And so
(47:12):
thank you, thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.
Darren and Donnie, thank you so much.
Speaker 7 (47:18):
Yeah, I'm wondering if you can leave us with you know,
I love the fact that we're having a lot of
God talk on here, but I'm curious if somebody listening
would be like, jeez, that's a lot of talk about God.
If they're if they're if they're feeling, if they're feeling
that resistance.
Speaker 6 (47:33):
But what what kind of advice?
Speaker 7 (47:35):
What could you, like, leave us with or leave that
person that's maybe had of that experience or has some trauma.
Speaker 6 (47:42):
Around it, or isn't as open minded.
Speaker 7 (47:44):
What would you say to that person that just is
struggling to find faith in their life.
Speaker 3 (47:50):
Life is hard, Life is hard, hard, And I understand
the moments where you're not sure if there is a God,
if there is a higher power, because why would I
ever find myself in such a circumstance, Or if there
(48:14):
is simply hurt from having gone to a church or
a place of faith in worship and been rejected or
told you're not good enough, or told uh, that's not
what someone godly looks like or acts like or dresses like.
Speaker 4 (48:32):
I would say, keep going. I would say.
Speaker 3 (48:37):
Trust that you're here for a reason, and that there
is a greater purpose beyond you, and you will find it.
You don't have to have found it because I found
it right now, or because Darren found it, or because
Donnie found it. You will find it when you're supposed
to find it. But trust that you are on your
(49:00):
right path even though it's difficult, and that you are loved.
I think when you lean into knowing you are loved,
you find God. So I would just tell them you
are loved. Life is going to life, and there can
(49:21):
be people out there acting like, oh no, I'm.
Speaker 4 (49:24):
Good, I'm blessed. God is good. Yes, God is good, Yes,
I am blessed.
Speaker 3 (49:27):
Also, life has been lifing and it has been very difficult,
and I have found myself on my knees. I have
found myself crying. I have found myself feeling like I
am alone. I just have to get to the other
side and know that I'm not and trust that I
am fully loved even in the midst of it all.
So I would just say, just take it step by step,
(49:49):
moment by moment, choosing to know that you are loved,
and when you feel that, you'll find God.
Speaker 5 (50:03):
None else needs to be said out of that. Thank you.
Speaker 6 (50:11):
I could listen to your voice all day long.
Speaker 7 (50:13):
It's just soothing, it's fluid, your I just keep thinking
about the grace and fluidity of your words, and.
Speaker 6 (50:20):
I just feeling coming coming from your heart. But we
know it's coming from something greater than that.
Speaker 7 (50:25):
So thank you for channeling God spirit and sharing the
love with us and our listeners today.
Speaker 6 (50:31):
We appreciate you.
Speaker 4 (50:32):
I appreciate you. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 6 (50:36):
All right, everybody peace, We're.
Speaker 5 (50:46):
Comeback.
Speaker 1 (50:47):
Stories is a production of Inflection Network and iHeartRadio. For
more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast,
or wherever you get your podcasts.
Comeback Stories is a production of Inflection Network and iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Welcome back, everyone to another episode of Comeback Stories. Darren Waller,
one year co host. I'm here as always with my
brother and my friend, mister Donnie Starkins, and we have
an amazing guest today on with us. Somebody who's from
their last name. He may recognize them as a member
of a legendary gospel family, but somebody that's carved her
own path, not only singing but acting as well. And
(00:39):
we'd love to welcome missus, Deborah Joy Wine us to
the show. Deborah Joy. Deborah Joy, how you doing not Deborah?
Speaker 3 (00:46):
I love it, Deborah Joy projecting, I love it.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
Hi, how are you all?
Speaker 5 (00:51):
We're doing fantastic good.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
I'm very happy to be here. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 5 (00:56):
Oh yeah, it's lovely to have you here.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
When we talk about comeback Stories and the adversity that
people have faced in their orn along the way, we
felt like we always had to go back to the
childhood to you know, get some answers and to see
where everything started. And so could you paint a picture
of what growing up was like, where it was, what
your family situation was, what was going on in your head.
Speaker 5 (01:19):
Just take us through it, Okay.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Growing up, I am from Detroit, Michigan, born and raised
into a very very big family. So family is truly
all I've ever known. Grew up in church, love the Lord.
That is truly my foundation. We were probably in church
more than we were in school. It's just it was
(01:47):
it made me really who I am today. But grew
up in church, and I was always with my family,
my brothers, my aunts, my uncles, all of my family sang.
And when I was getting ready to graduate from high school,
I knew that singing was not something I loved.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
I wanted to act. And when I told my family,
they were.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Like, oh, okay, well what else do you want to
do because they had never seen me do it. But
for some reason, it was just it was a passion,
it was a dream. It was something that was just
in my bones that I could not let go of.
And so I went to Wayne State, which was also
in Detroit with Wayne State University, and I majored in theater.
(02:31):
And my family, particularly my brothers and my parents came
to my first show at Wayne State and they were like, Okay,
this is what you do. But for a lot of
my family. That just wasn't the entertainment business as far
as acting and the things that you could see on
screen and the things that people would do that wasn't
(02:55):
truly something that people of faith would do.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
But for me, that was.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
What I felt God had put in my heart, in
my spirit, in my soul, and so I just followed
the dream that I fully believe God gave me, even
though there were a lot of doubts in my family,
and not doubts that I could do it, but doubts
that I should do it, doubts that it was what
God had for me. But I believe that God gives
(03:24):
you the vision for your life and others will catch
on eventually, and if they don't, they don't. But it's
all good. You are following what God has given you.
But it was very, very difficult. A lot of times
I would look at my family and think, maybe they're right,
maybe I'm in the wrong place. Is God gonna bless this?
(03:44):
Can he bless this? Does He really know my heart?
Does He know that I love him? Just wondering that
if a life of faith and the dreams that I
had could coexist. So that was sort of my journey
growing up, and I'm a big family girl, a big
(04:05):
family girl. Like if my family was singing somewhere, I
was the number one fan. I was the person screaming
like I had never heard them sing before. I was
the person dancing in the aisle. I was the person
cheering when you needed to be quiet. And that is
the person that I still am today. I was always
going to champion everybody in my family because I believed
(04:26):
in them, and so I found it difficult when I
got to a place of really focusing in on the
thing that I really felt like God had given me
to do, and I didn't see all of them cheering
in the background for me.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
But that was that was my life growing up.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
I know that takes a lot of courage to to
step into at some point because I remember me as
a kid. I knew I had, you know, gifts and
callings in music and in other areas, but I knew
I was I was really good at sports as well,
and that's what you know, people kind of know me
for now.
Speaker 5 (05:02):
But I didn't have the courage to be different.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
I was so afraid of not being seen as normal
or not being able to fit in and just be
loved and accepted that. I was like, I'm just gonna
do what everybody else says. It's cool what everybody else
says is is, and that's a little different than your journey.
But just as far as talking to the getting to
the place of courage and stepping out and saying, hey,
this is my journey and being comfortable in your own skin.
(05:29):
I didn't feel comfortable in my own skin until probably
twenty seven years old and having to go through a lot,
God having to take me through a lot. So to
see that courage that you must up, like how how
is that possible? Like how do you? How do you
arrive there? For somebody like is it they have to
go through their own journey to get there?
Speaker 3 (05:50):
Absolutely think I think it's I think it's going through
your own journey.
Speaker 4 (05:58):
But I think it's really love you.
Speaker 3 (06:06):
I have found that it is very difficult to move
forward towards your destiny, your dreams, your goals when you
don't fully love you, and I mean love every piece
of you, the piece of you that you think, oh,
I need to change that. That's not good because we
all have flaws, we all have things that as we
grow we're like, oh, maybe that's not the best character trait.
(06:31):
But if we don't see it and recognize it and
love ourselves, it is hard to make a change. And
so I think the thing that I would tell people
to find the courage means to find the love of you.
And I think when you love you and you love
who God has created you to be, as you grow
(06:54):
and as you journey in this life, you'll see the
things that Ah, Okay, I think I want to change that.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
And that's fine.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Okay, you know this, this was okay for now. But
you know, I think I'm moving higher. I think God
is taking me somewhere different. I think I'm growing in
a different way, and I want to let that go.
I want to shed that. That's been the biggest thing
that has helped me, and that has been It's come
in phases, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
I didn't just like.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Oh, I'm still going to go to school for theater
and it's going to be fine.
Speaker 4 (07:26):
I didn't feel that way at all.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
I did it, but I did not feel like I
was courageous at all. I just was like, I think
I'm by myself, but I did my BFA. I'm the
first person in the Wining's family to get a bachelor's degree.
Speaker 4 (07:44):
So I got my BFA.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
I spent a month in Moscow at the Moscow Art
Theater School, and then I moved to La got my
MFA in acting from cal Arts. I just kept going,
kept going because I felt like if this was the
gift that I knew God gave me, I just wanted
to make it sharp.
Speaker 4 (07:58):
I wanted to make it great. I wanted to be excellent.
So all of that is part of the journey of
loving yourself.
Speaker 3 (08:08):
I found that I am doing the thing that I know,
I love, that God has given me to do. So
I think that I fell in love with that piece
of me, the hard work, the discipline piece of me.
And then as things started to pick up, and you know,
things were happening and I was doing the very thing
that I love, I still got different things from people
(08:31):
close to me that I deemed mentors, people that I
would go to and talk to about everything in life,
Upset that I was doing what I was doing, Upset
sort of at my career trajectory and at the choices
that I had made. And so it wasn't until about
(08:54):
maybe I just turned forty, So it wasn't until maybe
thirty like thirty five, I started feeling it. I was like,
you know what, it's fine. I have my husband, I'm good,
I know what God has given me, and I'm going
to courageously walk into this new life, this journey. I
(09:15):
am going to fully be me, no exceptions. I'm not
feeling bad because someone else doesn't agree.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
But then, baby, when.
Speaker 3 (09:26):
I was about to have my baby, I had just
turned thirty eight, and I did this pregnancy reveal with essence,
and I thought it was fabulous. And then someone very
close to me didn't like that and told me that
was not of God and all these things, and I thought, oh,
(09:47):
that was the last bit of shedding that I needed.
I am boldly standing in who I am. I want
to tell you can't tell me nothing. I had a
baby at a age where everyone says, this is.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
What do they call it?
Speaker 3 (10:03):
It's they call it a certain type of pregnancy, a geriatric.
Speaker 6 (10:09):
Baby.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
They call you geriatric after like.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Thirty three or something, and so they're already saying it's
a geriatric pregnancy. They're already saying I had a I
had a fibroid that was twenty two centimeters. So when
I got pregnant, the doctor's initial response was, Oh, we
should get rid of this, because there's no way this
baby you'll be able to grow with this fibroid.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
We need to get rid of it start over.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
And I looked at my husband and he was like, well,
is she going to be okay? And the doctor said, well,
she'll be fine, but she'll probably be in the worst
pain of her life. And I said, well, if it's pain,
then we're gonna fight, We're gonna hold on. And was
it painful, Yes, the worst pain of my life. Did
I feel like I was living on eggshells because the
(10:56):
doctor said, I don't know if you'll make it past
eighteen weeks.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
I had to have a surgery in the middle of
my pregnancy to make sure the baby didn't come too soon.
And the doctor was like, get me to twenty eight weeks.
And we prayed and we believed, and I was in
a place where, for the first time in my life,
I could not see the other side of the circumstances.
(11:22):
I feel like in every other circumstance, whether it felt
good or not, I just knew God was gonna give
me to the other side. This was the first time
where I was like I can't even see what the
other side is. I don't know if I'm half this baby.
I don't know what's happening to me, Like, I just
don't know. And when we got to twenty eight weeks
(11:42):
and we had a baby shower, I took a breath
and I was like, God, you did this. And so
once I had a baby, I was like, you can't
tell me nothing. I'm not sure who you think you are,
but I do know who God has created.
Speaker 6 (11:55):
Me to be.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
And so it took me levels.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
It took me moment by moment to walk through this
journey and to find courage in each circumstance.
Speaker 4 (12:09):
So this has been a build up of courage.
Speaker 7 (12:14):
Wow, there's so much there going back to I was
having breakfast today with a mutual friend of Darren and
I is His name is David g. He's an amazing
meditation teacher here out in California, and I was telling
him who our guest was and he goes, you realize,
you know, you're interviewing this is music royalty, you know,
(12:35):
And he was just like breaking it down because he's
just he's.
Speaker 6 (12:38):
Into all that and just really knows the details.
Speaker 7 (12:41):
And I kept thinking, like, how do you, And Darren
kind of asked this question, but how do you find
your own in a family of royalty like that, especially
when you've got the royalty piece of it, You've got
projection of people's interpretation of religious beliefs and what is
the right or wrong thing to do.
Speaker 6 (13:00):
So yeah, I mean, I know you walked us through.
Speaker 7 (13:03):
That, but I'm just thinking about how challenging that would
be with the domestication process of just growing up and
you know, people telling us we need to do certain
things in order to be successful.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
Oh. Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (13:17):
I think I've learned from watching having a front row
seat to sort of what this life in the entertainment
industry has looked like for my family and what I've
always kept in mind, even when sometimes it was some
(13:38):
of them telling me, oh no, no, Joy, that's that's
not it. They broke barriers at a time where the
music that they started singing seemed.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
Secular to most Christians.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
A lot of people thought that their music was the
devil's music because it just didn't sound like traditional gospel music.
Speaker 4 (14:01):
But they persevered.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
They kept going because they felt like it was what
God had given them to do, and ultimately got used
that to really break barriers, to set a standard, to
create a foundation that we have lived on, that we
have been grateful for, I think for generations to come.
Speaker 4 (14:22):
So for me, I keep that in mind.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
While they may not see it, I know that they recognize,
Oh you guys just don't see it. You don't have
the vision. And that's okay, we have it. You'll catch
on eventually. So I think that I've kept that as
something to sort of hold on to and go back
to when I'm feeling like, oh joy, this doesn't look
(14:45):
like everybody else, it doesn't have to for me. I
never singing was never my passion, that was never my love.
I have sense, you know, if I talk to kids
or just have a conversation really with anyone who asks
how did you get into the industry, or what do
you like about the industry singing. While it has never
(15:06):
been a passion of mine, it is a gift. And
I tell people use every gift that God has given you,
because you don't know when you will be called upon
to use it. And truly that gift is not for you.
It is meant for the world. It is meant to
touch somebody somewhere somehow. And so my only thing is
I wish I would have also given as much time
(15:29):
and focus and practice and discipline to my singing.
Speaker 4 (15:34):
But all in all, this was just.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
A step by step sort of situation, and people will
either get on the bandwagon or they won't. But it
is difficult feeling like the very people that see you
don't really see you. But also look trust God. That
(16:02):
is my biggest advice that I can give to anybody.
Trust God. Trust that gut instinct that you have, because
you don't want to look back and think I didn't
do this when I wanted to do it because so
and so said something? Who is so and so? Are
you about to pay all my bills? Are you about
to set me up for life? Are you about to
(16:23):
you know, no, you're not doing any of those things.
So recognizing someone's perspective and their ideas versus what God
has given you and what.
Speaker 4 (16:33):
You want to do, I think that's that's the key.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
He come back to trusting God, and I'm the same way.
I don't know how I would have gotten through the
things that I've survived and just able to hold up
the weight that I have on me today without him.
And I feel like I love for you to dive
into how you developed like an authentic love for the Lord,
(17:00):
because I feel like even with me growing up, I was,
you know, I want to My family was you know,
always in church, but church felt like a chore and
it felt like an obligation. And my religion was almost
transactional with God, like if I if I read the Bible,
if I went to you know, Bible study or midweek church,
(17:20):
that God owed me a blessing. But and then when
things got rough in my life, I didn't really I
felt like God was judging me and condemning me as
opposed to having that real relationship. So how how does
one go about developing a love of the Lord and
a loving relationship with him?
Speaker 4 (17:38):
You know, That's a really good question. And I think
for me.
Speaker 3 (17:44):
It was the foundation that my family set, and I
think that you don't always have to agree on everything
to recognize the good in something.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
And I think it.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Was the six Aim prayers that I did not want
to go to, but our parents woke us up and
made us go. Because while I don't remember just getting
there and getting on my knees and praying real hard,
I do remember being next to my grandma and hearing
how she would pray. She talked to the Lord very
(18:25):
matter of fact. It didn't have to be this big voice,
it didn't have to be these incredible words.
Speaker 4 (18:34):
Her vocabulary didn't have to be through the roof.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
It was Lord, I love you, Lord, I thank you, Lord,
I thank you for waking me up. I thank you
for a mind to want to love you, to want
to do right. Thank you for my family. And so
I would hear the way she prayed, and I thought, oh,
I can do that.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
That's not difficult.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
And then I would hear the way my grandfather, just
the joy that he would have talking about the Lord
and everything God had done for him, and then I
would see it in my own life. So I went
from hearing my parents pray, hearing my grandma pray, seeing
my grandfather pray and testify to the things that God
(19:22):
had done, things that he had seen, and then seeing
God in my life pray for certain things and then
they happen, and I'm like, ooh.
Speaker 4 (19:33):
Okay, this is okay, all right.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
But then I think the biggest thing for me was
holding on to it when adversity came, when it felt
like I wasn't enough, when it felt like everything I
did just didn't add up, and like, God, where are you?
I don't understand. I think my faith and my love
(19:57):
increased circumstance by circumstance as I saw God.
Speaker 4 (20:03):
Through it all.
Speaker 3 (20:06):
You know, it's easy to praise Him when everything is wonderful.
It is very difficult to still say thank you Lord
when you're in the middle of a storm, when you
are in the middle of not being able to see
your way out. And I think I've learned that even
(20:28):
through that. Like I spoke about being, I was working
on set when well, I found out I was pregnant.
Then I had to go and do a job. So
I was working on a set without my husband, newly pregnant,
in an immense amount of pain, and I literally said,
(20:50):
I don't know where God is. What did I do
to be in this wilderness? Like, I don't understand? And
then I started to change my perspective and I was like, Okay,
if I feel like I'm in a wilderness, Lord, what
are you trying to show me? Have I not been
depending on you enough? I am very happy to say
(21:14):
that I married Well. When I tell you I love
my husband, it is the best yes I've ever said
in my life second to loving Jesus, I'm so very
grateful he has shown me how to love myself the
way I need to. So, you know, choosing a spouse
is a really choose right because they can lead you
(21:35):
into your destiny. And so I think for me, I
started to see I've started to trust the gift more
than the giver. I started leaning so much on my
husband that I forgot about my relationship with the Lord
and everything. For me, everything is flowing from him. And
(21:56):
so I think for me, I started finding lessons in
the wilderness.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
It's like, I don't want to be here.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
I don't know why I'm here, But you know what,
let's figure that out so that I don't have to
come here again. And so I think my love has
to just continue to develop from stage to stage.
Speaker 4 (22:17):
But it's simple.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
It's loving the Lord and learning how much he loves
me and trusting that even in the hard times.
Speaker 7 (22:26):
Darren, I got to say, Man, I'm loving how you've
really made yourself at home in the big city. I'm curious,
how are you getting around?
Speaker 6 (22:33):
You a subway guy, cab uber.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
I'm glad you're asked, Donnie, Man, I'm a got the
honor to partner with All American Forward over in New Jersey.
They've been taking really good care of me since I
got out here, and that's why I love the most
about it. Man, they treat me like I'm family, not
just a customer trying to get a deal or just
a statistic.
Speaker 5 (22:51):
You know.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
They give me great service. You could tell they got
to commitment to quality. The innovation is unmatched. And just
so if anybody's you know, like me, trying to get
around in New Jersey, don't know where to go, I'm
telling you go check out All American Forward here in Jersey.
They gon'n take real good care of you.
Speaker 7 (23:07):
When we come back, you'll hear more of this inspiring
comeback story.
Speaker 6 (23:13):
It's beautiful.
Speaker 7 (23:14):
I wanted to tie back your faith with I love
how you dove right into loving yourself in the beginning.
Speaker 6 (23:19):
And just for some context, that's been a theme of
mine for the.
Speaker 7 (23:23):
Last probably ten years with my brand, and I have
a retreat every year in January. I do in so
Doana call love Yourself. And the reason why I've been
so passionate about this message is because no matter where
I go and teach or speak or do some type
of event. There's a common theme that we don't love
ourselves enough. Whether it's the way that we have that
(23:44):
not enough story hijacking our life, or it's the way
we critique our body, or when we must make a
mistake or fail in some way, or or feeling inadequate,
or it's when we're putting everybody else's needs before our
own needs. That is the common theme. It's like everywhere
I go. And so I've been so passionate about this
message because I've seen the damage that it's done, not
(24:06):
only to myself but to the people that I'm exposed to.
Speaker 6 (24:10):
So how do you feel like for you, how.
Speaker 7 (24:13):
Does the security of knowing that you are fully loved
by God? How does that help you with your own
self love and not allowing that not enough story to
creep in, Especially in the industry that you're in, which
I would have to imagine there's a lot of there's
a lot of rejection.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
Ooh, there's a lot of rejection. That's a really, really,
really good question, Donnie. I think that when you fully know,
so if we're saying God loves us unconditionally, and that's
been a big thing for me because I think a
(24:56):
lot of times people put God in things that God
is like, I ain't got none to do with that play.
God is love, And if you don't have love, then
I really truly don't know what you have. And so
when you recognize that love is who God is and
that he loves you unconditionally right now as you are,
(25:19):
with all the flaws, you see, God loves you. When
I recognize that, I think there was something that.
Speaker 4 (25:29):
Really just sort of switched in me. If the creator
of this universe.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
Loves me unconditionally the way that I am, who are
you to tell me that I'm not great? Who are
you to tell me that I can't do this? And
then even to yourself when you start thinking, which I
have so much being in this industry, Oh they wanted
(25:55):
the light skinned girl. Oh they said dark skin isn't
pretty enough. Oh I'm not thin enough. Oh I'm not.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
There's so many you're not You're not.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
I've had to tell myself and people don't realize how
powerful language is. The tongue is very powerful, and you
have to speak life to yourself. So I've had to
change my atmosphere. I've had to change what people are
sort of downloading into me, Oh, they said you're not.
(26:28):
Oh okay, well I am. They just didn't they wanted
something different, you know what I mean. So I've had
to have my daily sort of affirmations. You are beautiful,
you are smart, you are intelligent, You are where you're
meant to be. A lot of times we look at
other people's journeys and we think I should be there. No, no, no,
(26:50):
you don't know what they've gone through to get there.
You don't know what their journey has been. Like your
journey is for you stay in your lane, and I
think that that has been.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
What has helped me. Does that make sense?
Speaker 5 (27:06):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (27:07):
I think it's no matter what you choose to believe in.
I think it's so important. Darren and I have talked about.
Speaker 7 (27:13):
This, how faith relieves us from the burden of excessive responsibility.
Speaker 6 (27:17):
But it's also having that relationship and understanding.
Speaker 7 (27:20):
That God is love, and if God is love and
we are one with God, then we are loved and
we are love. And if we truly know that and
we have that faith, and anything that comes up in
our lives, whether it's a relationship, a job, an opportunity,
if not this something better, if not.
Speaker 6 (27:39):
This something better, like that.
Speaker 7 (27:41):
That affirmation has always stayed with me, that true knowing
that it's all happening for us and if this relationship
isn't gonna work, there's gonna be something better. And that's
really just like, help me a lot not be so
attached to something that I think needs to.
Speaker 6 (27:58):
Be in my life.
Speaker 7 (27:58):
And yeah, God is usually moving it out of there
to make space for something new. But we get hooked
and attached and afraid that we're going to lose something
and never find it again.
Speaker 4 (28:09):
We do and it's difficult. It is.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
It is very, very difficult. So I don't say it
as like all you gotta do is you know, know
that God is love and you're going to be great. No,
it is very difficult. This is a daily thing for me.
This is thank you Lord. I'm grateful for the journey
that you've had me on.
Speaker 4 (28:31):
I am. And I think that as you get older,
you're able you.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
Know, hindsight is twenty twenty. You are able to look
back and be like, whoo, I see why I had
to go through this, this, this, and this, I see
and you see the character that has been developed in
you and how God has groomed you to be who
you're supposed to be for where you're going.
Speaker 6 (28:54):
You know.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
I think that if I would have gotten everything I
asked for at like twenty two, I honestly don't know
where I would be. I don't think I would have
my husband. I don't think I would have my son.
I don't know that I would have this career. I
don't know where I would be. So God knows what
we can handle and also what I love. Oprah Winfrey
(29:20):
once said, love is in the details. And God dreams
bigger dreams for you than you can dream for yourself.
So while you've got all these big dreams, God is
dreaming bigger. So if this doesn't work, trust that God's
dream for you is working and you're getting there.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Man, I gotta put another layer on that, because one
of the greatest books I've ever read is by a pastor.
It's called The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry, And in the
book he talks about how love and hurry are incompatible
because love, love takes.
Speaker 5 (29:56):
Time, you know, and God being love, it may it.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
May take time for whatever your season is, whatever your
journey is in you know, especially like whatever is for
your purpose to be fulfilled. And I love to know, like,
what has the journey been for you, Like when it
comes to cultivating purpose, because you have tremendous gifts in
multiple fields and maximizing those takes a lot of time,
(30:21):
a lot of effort, a lot of resources.
Speaker 5 (30:23):
But how have you found purpose within all that?
Speaker 4 (30:27):
Dang, that's good.
Speaker 3 (30:30):
That's a good question, you know. I think one time
I was just randomly singing. I'll just sing a song,
not even really thinking about it. It just will happen.
And one time someone I was working with on set
just said, ooh, that just touched my soul. And I said, oh, huh,
(30:52):
you're so silly, and she said, I'm very serious. I
don't know what it is about your voice, but it
goes right to my soul. It just got my like
joy you need to And I went to my trophy and.
Speaker 4 (31:06):
I thought.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
That was just some random him that popped up. I
wasn't trying to do anything fancy with it. It just
sort of came from me.
Speaker 4 (31:19):
And I realized that God.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
Touches everything, and so when you sort of relinquish your
control on things and you just trust that what it
is you want to do and you start flowing from that,
(31:47):
God is using that to touch so many people in
so many different ways that you would never think of.
And so I think for me, I've moved gradually in
that way of just resting, assured that God is in it,
(32:08):
if I'm moving with the right motivation, if I am
recognizing that life is a journey, God is in all
of it.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
God is in every relationship you're making.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
We're so we're so in a hurry to get to
the thing that we think is the penultimate thing when
we and we missed the in betweens. I just turned
forty and I could not believe the amount of people
that were at my birthday party. When I walked out,
(32:44):
I was in tears because I saw so many faces
and they knew every face, and to think that they
were all part of my journey, and I would if
I would have hurried and rushed through the journey, I
wouldn't have some of these relationships and have shared so
(33:06):
many moments with this person that said, oh my God,
if it wasn't for you checking in on me, I
just don't know what I would have done or prayed
with this person when they felt like they had nobody
that understood that prayer could work.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
When you rush through.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
Life, you missed the moments that God is trying to use.
And when you have those moments, you can have a
party and look out and see God in all of it.
See every relationship, see whether it's work, whether it's friendship,
whether it was romantic. You see God over your life
(33:46):
when you don't rush through it. And I think for me,
that has been my thing to just sort of move
from a place of love and trust that even if
I don't see it, if I don't recognize the gift,
if I don't think it means anything, to know that
maybe God is using it somewhere, somehow for somebody. And
(34:11):
so I think it's like you said, it's not a hurry.
You got to live this thing. You have to feel
all of it, the good and the bad. And when
you recognize that you have to feel.
Speaker 4 (34:23):
The good and the bad.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
I tend to trust that God is in all of
it and He's gonna bring me through it. And so
then you can look back and you can see his
hand in every single thing. The circumstances that you thought
were not necessary for your growth. You look back and
you're like, oh, but I made this friend. Oh and
I made this friend this has been a lifelong relationship.
(34:48):
I've poured into them, They've poured into me. Where would
I be if I didn't have this. That's my idea
of it, just taking the journey and being happy with
the journey, not trying to rush any peace of it.
And when you don't rush it, you see God in
all of it.
Speaker 7 (35:09):
I want to just take us back even to what
you were saying about you singing and the person on
set that heard you singing. And for me, I always
say that God speaks to me through the mouths of
other people.
Speaker 6 (35:19):
That's where I hear God the most.
Speaker 7 (35:22):
And as you were walking us through that that scenario,
it was like she was hearing God through your voice.
You were hearing God through her voice as a reminder
of this gift.
Speaker 6 (35:34):
That you have.
Speaker 7 (35:35):
And then it brought me to kind of Darren and
I talk a lot about the four Agreements and being
impeccable with.
Speaker 6 (35:41):
Your word and how your word.
Speaker 7 (35:43):
You know, there's two two sides to the sword, and
that your word can neither, you know, send love and light,
or it can cut through like a like a sharp knife.
Speaker 6 (35:52):
And yeah, that was just a beautiful scenario.
Speaker 7 (35:55):
And I believe like if getting to the rushing that
we talked about, like life only unfolds in moments. It's
it's moment to moment, and if we're not present for
those moments, we end up missing.
Speaker 6 (36:07):
Out on what's most valuable in our lives.
Speaker 7 (36:09):
And you know, I've heard you say like we're constantly
looking for ways to prove, you know, that that that
were good enough, instead of just fully understanding like we
are enough.
Speaker 6 (36:21):
Right, We're trying to prove instead of recognized.
Speaker 7 (36:24):
And I think that's like the power of the pause
and taking time to be still. So I'm just curious
for you, like what are your mindfulness practices. Do you
have rituals, practices, mantras that you do to really center
yourself and get present.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
Well, I think I love I love the power of
the pause. That was really really great, And I think
for me.
Speaker 4 (36:52):
It's a reminder sort of daily.
Speaker 3 (36:58):
Like I said, I have my my affirmations that I
know I need to speak to myself. I have affirmation
that I speak over my home, that I speak about
my marriage, that I speak over my son, because I
do believe that we also can speak things into existence.
(37:19):
There is life in what you say, So watch what
you say.
Speaker 4 (37:25):
So yeah, for me, it's prayer.
Speaker 3 (37:29):
It's not only just telling myself who I know I am,
because you really you need to know who you are
before you walk into anybody's room, because they're going to
tell you who you are if you don't.
Speaker 4 (37:41):
So knowing who.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
I am, trusting who I am, trusting what God has
given me to do, walking boldly in that, and then
also I get blessed from telling other people that they're great.
I think I recognized a long time ago, while this
industry is very difficult, I am not in competition. I
(38:07):
think there's room for everybody. Whatever dreams and goals God
has given you, there is room for everybody to fulfill
their destiny. And so I've never felt like I'm in
competition with anybody. So it's very easy for me to
see someone and say, oh my god, you look beautiful.
Oh that's stunning. We could be going in for the
same audition, Oh my god, you look great.
Speaker 4 (38:29):
Gone girl.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
Or just speaking life into other people is a blessing
to me, and you never know what that can do
for them. You never know where they're head space is at.
You don't know where they are mentally, you don't know
what they've just been through. You know, they barely made
it through that door. And so knowing that the small
things you can do a smile, a handshake, a hug,
(38:52):
you look wonderful or welcome or how are you a
genuine how are you can change somebody's life. So those
are also practices that I have put into motion that
really truly blessed me. You know, it's it's easiest to
bless yourself when you're blessing others.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
It's better to give than receive. I mean, I remember,
I remember the first time somebody, uh, I'm a Donnie
and I have been in a twelve step recovery and
in meetings, I remember an old timer saying, you know,
if you want a friend, be a friend, and you know,
getting yourself out of this place of like me receiving
(39:34):
before I give first. And it's like, if I'm following,
if I'm following God, if I'm in relationship with God,
then my character and how I lived my life should
be in alignment with Him, in alignment with with what
how he would act, and and what you said about
like comparing yourself to other people, It's like that's like
(39:54):
the number one thief of joy. I mean, if you're
you log you log onto social media at any point
in time, your your joy could be stolen from you
if you allow it to. So it's it's so important,
especially nowadays too. I think you spoke on it earlier,
just like protecting like what you're consuming and what you're
taking in, Like you really have to be locked in
(40:17):
on that because the world today is going to have
you spinning.
Speaker 5 (40:21):
Like a top and just like you're love in a
many different.
Speaker 3 (40:24):
Directions, have you thinking you crazy, you know, And it's
and it's amazing to me how social media can really
have somebody in.
Speaker 4 (40:34):
A frenzy, y'all.
Speaker 3 (40:36):
Almost ninety nine point nine percent of this stuff is
you know, airbrushed, touched up all the like. This is
not people post the things that make them happy. You
do not typically post the things that are hurting you,
that are breaking you down, that you don't see a
(40:56):
way out of. And when we recognize that, we don't
let it consume us. You know, social media can be
used as a tool, but if you are not ready
to use it like that and understand it and truly
love yourself, I think.
Speaker 4 (41:16):
It is very difficult. I think it is very very difficult.
Speaker 3 (41:20):
It feels like a thief comeing to take every piece
of joy that you have. And that's one thing that
I tell myself too, Donnie, a reminder the world didn't
give it to me, so the world can't take it away.
Speaker 4 (41:33):
Like this joy that I have, the world did not
give it to me.
Speaker 7 (41:37):
So that's like that, as you may, the whole idea
of conditional happiness.
Speaker 6 (41:43):
And I think that's why.
Speaker 7 (41:44):
Most of our world, or much of our world is
struggling so bad, because of the idea of like, I'll
be happy when I get this, or when I get
the likes, or when I get.
Speaker 6 (41:54):
The car or the marriage.
Speaker 7 (41:56):
And it's like, no, you have to figure out that
happiness happens in the now.
Speaker 6 (42:00):
Happiness is an inside job. And yeah, you know what
makes me happy.
Speaker 7 (42:04):
And I heard you say like a lot of the
when you were referencing the social media where a lot
of people are posting what makes them happy. And it's
always a good reminder to me because I think my
life changed forever when I actually shared my shit and
shared my mess and I found like I feel like
I found my voice. It humanized me as a teacher.
(42:26):
It's also how I connected with Darren him hearing his
short story, and I've heard you say that if you're
not showing who you are, how are others gonna actually
see the way? And when you and I heard that,
I was like, Wow, this is exactly why we are
sitting here in this moment, the three of us having
(42:47):
this conversation. And my teacher would always say, how dare
we not? And I get it, like in Darren and
NIC's program, it's known to be anonymous, but I think
I just had to choose impact over anonymity. And again
those words for my teacher, how dare I not share
my story when there's opportunities to help so many other people,
(43:09):
not by how great my life is now, but how
bad it was. Yeah, and then that willingness to just
surrender and lay it all down and actually get honest
and ask for some help.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
Yeah, That's that's what it's about. That's where change happens.
That's I remember. I went through so many things when
I got pregnant, and I'm just like, is this normal?
Speaker 5 (43:39):
Well?
Speaker 3 (43:39):
How come nobody nobody told me about this? Why didn't
someone tell me that this could happen? Or this is
what you go through? Like a lot of times, the
stories that I heard women made it sound like pregnancy
was all roses, and ah, this is delightful, and oh
my child, Oh they're just amazing. My child started kicking
(44:00):
and I was like, oh my goodness, this is this
the earthquake happening. There were just so many things that
I did not know to expect that are typical, and
then understanding after I found out I had the fibroids,
finding out how common it is in women of color,
(44:21):
and then I start asking around and it's like.
Speaker 4 (44:24):
Oh, oh yeah, I had that.
Speaker 3 (44:25):
Oh yeah, you know, you got to get checked for
those because a lot of times doctors won't check you
for it, and so you have to ask them to check.
Speaker 4 (44:32):
I'm like, wait, what, why didn't I know this? I
wish I would have known.
Speaker 3 (44:37):
And that's what led me to share my pregnancy journey
with Essence, because I want somebody to know.
Speaker 4 (44:44):
I know there are women coming behind me that want
to get pregnant.
Speaker 3 (44:47):
If you're a woman of color, ask your doctor to
check you for this, because had I been checked, I
would have had a way.
Speaker 4 (44:55):
Better pregnancy because I would have gotten and removed.
Speaker 3 (44:58):
But you just don't know unless people are talking, unless
people are sharing what they've been through, and I want
to to share it so that people understood, No, this
has not been Roses. This is something you can do
to advocate for yourself. This is something you need to do,
and it's okay. Don't feel shamed. Don't feel like because
a lot of women I talked to felt shame. They
(45:19):
didn't really want to share because it's not normal. Well, honey,
it kind of sort of is. But also who cares.
If you've been through this, you can help somebody else.
Somebody else doesn't have to go through the same thing
you went through. That's what I think about. From my son,
I'm enduring certain things so that he doesn't have to,
you know what I mean. So we have to share.
(45:41):
We have to be honest because honesty brings about change.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
That's I mean, like you said, we feel you, Donnie,
and I for sure, because I mean, I'm somebody that's
I had no plans on being vocal about my journey
with Droy's alcohol and all things that I've been through,
but I feel like that's where my purpose has come from,
and now it's about you know, somebody's life can be different,
somebody's experience can be different because of my vulnerability because
(46:08):
of what I'm willing to share. I'm willing to get
up here and show you my scars. And it's like,
you know, because they're no longer open wounds, they're they're
healed now. They're still there, but they're there for a reason.
Speaker 5 (46:20):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (46:21):
We salute you, We respect you for being vulnerable, showing
the path so many women, whether it's pregnancy, whether it's
you know, stepping out into their gifts and their calling
that they know is true to themselves, dealing with any
rejection along the way, even dealing with the success and
how traumatizing success can be at times. Your vulnerability has
(46:42):
been amazing. I'm walking away from this conversation lit up and.
Speaker 5 (46:46):
Just honor to have shared this time and this platform
with you.
Speaker 3 (46:50):
So we're grateful, Thank you, Thank you so much, Darren.
This has really been a pleasure. I appreciate it. I
don't take it for granted anytime I'm able to talk
and share anything, because I think that these are the
moments that God gives us to be a light to someone,
to share something that could touch and change. And so
(47:12):
thank you, thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.
Darren and Donnie, thank you so much.
Speaker 7 (47:18):
Yeah, I'm wondering if you can leave us with you know,
I love the fact that we're having a lot of
God talk on here, but I'm curious if somebody listening
would be like, jeez, that's a lot of talk about God.
If they're if they're if they're feeling, if they're feeling
that resistance.
Speaker 6 (47:33):
But what what kind of advice?
Speaker 7 (47:35):
What could you, like, leave us with or leave that
person that's maybe had of that experience or has some trauma.
Speaker 6 (47:42):
Around it, or isn't as open minded.
Speaker 7 (47:44):
What would you say to that person that just is
struggling to find faith in their life.
Speaker 3 (47:50):
Life is hard, Life is hard, hard, And I understand
the moments where you're not sure if there is a God,
if there is a higher power, because why would I
ever find myself in such a circumstance, Or if there
(48:14):
is simply hurt from having gone to a church or
a place of faith in worship and been rejected or
told you're not good enough, or told uh, that's not
what someone godly looks like or acts like or dresses like.
Speaker 4 (48:32):
I would say, keep going. I would say.
Speaker 3 (48:37):
Trust that you're here for a reason, and that there
is a greater purpose beyond you, and you will find it.
You don't have to have found it because I found
it right now, or because Darren found it, or because
Donnie found it. You will find it when you're supposed
to find it. But trust that you are on your
(49:00):
right path even though it's difficult, and that you are loved.
I think when you lean into knowing you are loved,
you find God. So I would just tell them you
are loved. Life is going to life, and there can
(49:21):
be people out there acting like, oh no, I'm.
Speaker 4 (49:24):
Good, I'm blessed. God is good. Yes, God is good, Yes,
I am blessed.
Speaker 3 (49:27):
Also, life has been lifing and it has been very difficult,
and I have found myself on my knees. I have
found myself crying. I have found myself feeling like I
am alone. I just have to get to the other
side and know that I'm not and trust that I
am fully loved even in the midst of it all.
So I would just say, just take it step by step,
(49:49):
moment by moment, choosing to know that you are loved,
and when you feel that, you'll find God.
Speaker 5 (50:03):
None else needs to be said out of that. Thank you.
Speaker 6 (50:11):
I could listen to your voice all day long.
Speaker 7 (50:13):
It's just soothing, it's fluid, your I just keep thinking
about the grace and fluidity of your words, and.
Speaker 6 (50:20):
I just feeling coming coming from your heart. But we
know it's coming from something greater than that.
Speaker 7 (50:25):
So thank you for channeling God spirit and sharing the
love with us and our listeners today.
Speaker 6 (50:31):
We appreciate you.
Speaker 4 (50:32):
I appreciate you. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 6 (50:36):
All right, everybody peace, We're.
Speaker 5 (50:46):
Comeback.
Speaker 1 (50:47):
Stories is a production of Inflection Network and iHeartRadio. For
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Hosts And Creators
Eric Balchunas
Donny Starkins
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