CZM Rewind: Baba Yaga: Everyone's Favorite Witch From Folklore, Part One

Margaret talks with Jamie Loftus about Baba Yaga, the Slavic legend who eats children and occasionally helps people.

Original Air Date: 11.7.2022

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Cool media.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
Hello, and welcome to Cool People who Did Cool stuff.
And welcome to the month of October. And you know
what that means. You probably do did mean spooky month,
and I love spooky things. I've never not loved spooky things.
That's not true. I was terrified of everything as a child,
in particular spooky stories. In fact, all the scary stories

(00:24):
that people tell would have done me a disservice because
I was a really scared kid. What a great thing
to tell. All of you. Really excited about that. Really
glad that I can't edit this, because that's not how
podcasting works. You just say things and then they go
out and there's no way to edit them down. This
is a rewind episode, which means it's an episode that's
already been aired. So if you're someone who's already listened

(00:46):
to the deep recesses of cool People who Did cool stuff,
there's nothing new for you, I'm sorry to say. But
you know what, more realistically, you'll like it this time
too if you liked it then. And also more realistically,
you haven't heard it because this week I'm talking about
Babba Ya Go, And you too can become the kind

(01:08):
of pedant who says Babba yaga instead of Babba yaga,
and everyone will love you. Everyone loves a pedant, That's
what people always say. Her house is on chicken legs
and she rides around in a mortar propelled by a pestle,
and yet she's terrifying. It's Baba y go. Okay, here's

(01:37):
the episode. Hello and welcome to the Cool People Who
Did Cool Stuff. I'm your host, Margaret Kiljoy, and each
week I dig into history and find all the radiest
stories of the radest people who did shit like overthrow
governments and smash patriarchy and each children. Most week, this
week's is Halloween. Well, actually last week is Halloween. It's

(01:58):
kind of confusing because next week is Halloween for us,
but last week is Halloween for you. Every day is Halloween.
My guest today is the one and only Jamie Loftus.

Speaker 1 (02:08):
Jamie, how are you hi? Oh? I'm so tired, but
I'm great and I'm ready for Halloween. Do you have
Halloween plans? Margaret?

Speaker 2 (02:16):
No, I'm well, I'm I'm going to go be alone
in the woods on Halloween.

Speaker 1 (02:21):
Okay, that's all I said. That that counts as plans.

Speaker 2 (02:25):
Yeah, yeah, and totally won't be spooked out at all?
What are your Halloween plans?

Speaker 1 (02:33):
My Halloween? Because Halloween's on a Monday this year, which
is troubling. So I have like a Halloween part time
job that's occupying a lot of my time. But on Saturday,
I'm going to see Danny Elfman in concert, which I'm
very excited. Holy shit, the Pumpkin King. I guess that
he does like an annual Halloween show at the Hollywood Bowl.

(02:54):
I didn't know about it before this year, but I'm going, Baby,
I can't wait.

Speaker 2 (02:58):
Yeah, Sophie Halloween plans. Our producer is the one and
only Sophie Lichtterman. Sophie, how are you? What are your
Halloween plans?

Speaker 3 (03:06):
To dress my dog in as many costumes as possible,
and that I hope that kids don't. I'm gonna put
a giant bowl of candy in front of my house
because I would like them to have the candy, but
I don't want to interact. Hmm, But I hope they

(03:27):
don't steal my bowl.

Speaker 1 (03:28):
They prefer it that way too, I mean, I think
we all do.

Speaker 3 (03:33):
And then I'm gonna go do some spooky shit.

Speaker 1 (03:36):
Hell yeah, wait, are you wearing a costume.

Speaker 3 (03:40):
I don't know, didn't get that far on the planning,
was just told where to be in when.

Speaker 1 (03:47):
I like it. Outfit choice not confirmed. I have one
more question, which is what size candy bars are you rocking?
I feel like there should be a mid size between
fun size and full size, but I don't know that
that exists.

Speaker 3 (04:01):
I feel like that's what I got to be honest,
I feel like they don't. They're definitely not full sized Goldilocks.
They're definitely not full size. Let's I got Goldilocks exactly,
but and and I feel like the pack I got,
I was like, this is like a very good like
there's variety, which I appreciate. But yeah, I hope they

(04:22):
don't steal my bowl. That would hurt my feelings. And
I hope that one kid doesn't ruin it for everyone
else by taking all the candy. That's my biggest feel
electrified the bull What if I solid choice, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (04:34):
Not enough to kill because that's probably illegal.

Speaker 3 (04:38):
Yeah, more more important, like if they steal the bowl, okay, fine, like, okay,
I get it, it's you needed the ball. But if
they if one kid takes all the candy from the bowl,
that will upset me, and Anderson will fully nark.

Speaker 2 (04:55):
Yeah, that that will happen is the word you meant
to say.

Speaker 3 (04:58):
That I know, I feel like it will, which would
not be cool because when you're da no, I I
saw it has been, I saw it happen, and I
it's bought.

Speaker 1 (05:11):
No, it's And then you.

Speaker 3 (05:12):
Go up there and you're like, oh my god, that's
so nice.

Speaker 2 (05:14):
That put a bull you put.

Speaker 3 (05:15):
Your hand in the bolt. No candy, and then you're like, wow,
this person sucks. It's like, no, some little shithead kids sucks. Anyways,
that's been my rant.

Speaker 2 (05:24):
You should hide in the bushes and then shout it's
the tragedy of the commons. Don't stop them and don't
explain what the tragedy of the commons is, but maybe
actually then follow them down the street and uh, tell
the story about the Nobel Prize winning scientist who disproved
the concept of the tragedy the commons, and just tell
the like eight year old this, and I promise you

(05:45):
they'll never do it again. It's justice through pedantry, which
is the name of the podcast that you're listening to.
It is not justice through pedantry. Today, I'm going to
explain the difference between hanged and hung h and then
judge everyone who get No, I'm not gonna do that, Jamie.

Speaker 1 (06:04):
I was gonna say, I I don't know what today's
episode is about. So when you said that, I started
mentally preparing myself.

Speaker 2 (06:13):
Well, I'm just gonna I'm gonna plow ahead with my script,
even though I've ruined some of the jokes. Jamie, have
you ever heard of Halloween?

Speaker 3 (06:20):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (06:20):
Yeah, this isn't a story about Halloween. This isn't enough
about Hellleween.

Speaker 1 (06:24):
Okay, but so we were just catching up.

Speaker 2 (06:27):
But it's a special Halloween episode nonetheless, because instead of
talking about a real person today, I want to talk
about a fake person, or in my head, a more
real than real person, an archetype, a god to some.
Because it's Folklore Week on cool people who did cool stuff,

(06:48):
and this inaugural mm hmm, this this inaugural folklore Week.
There's only one lady who fits the bill besides Jamie Loftus.
Of course, sometimes this person helps people, Sometimes she eats people.
She lives in the woods, and she hangs out with geese.
She scoots around the forest in an iron mortar, pushing

(07:10):
herself along with an iron pestle sweeping up her tracks
behind her with a broom, and her hut sits on
chicken legs because she is the one and only Baba
fucking Yaga.

Speaker 1 (07:22):
Oh I feel it's my lucky day. Wow, this is thrilling.
I didn't know her house was on chicken legs. That's
very good, very creative. That's very scary.

Speaker 2 (07:36):
I know, it's actually it's one of the most unique
parts about the Baba Yaga mythology is the like, yeah,
the chicken like in many ways. We'll talk about this later,
but like in many ways, like she's like a witch, right,
and then like, but her house is on chicken legs,
and she like sits in a mortar like mortar and pestle, right,
you know the thing you grind up. You might not this,
but I'm explaining to some of.

Speaker 1 (07:56):
Those are heavy too.

Speaker 2 (07:57):
Yeah, yeah, totally. Well in this way case, it sits
in one that's like big enough for a person and
then like scoots around like rides it like a little cart.

Speaker 1 (08:06):
That's so that sounds both first of all awesome but
logistically inefficient and probably really a.

Speaker 2 (08:14):
Loud Yeah, that's true. You could probably hear Bobby Yagah coming. Yeah.
Well she she sweeps away the tracks of a broom
as she goes, like to clear it so you can
hear her, but you don't know where she went because
you got cleaned up.

Speaker 1 (08:31):
Wow, very tree falls in the woods, except not really
at all. Maybe the opposite.

Speaker 2 (08:36):
If Bobby a Goad moves through the woods and no
one survives to hear to tell the tale, did it
ever happen.

Speaker 1 (08:44):
Then she probably knocked down that tree she ruins around
to care.

Speaker 2 (08:48):
Yeah, yeah, it's her fucking forest. I think the best
way to introduce a figure out of folklore is to
tell you a folk tale. And so I haven't done
like a direct reading on this podcast before him'ma do
this reading which you can still interrupt, just to put
that out there. We don't have to.

Speaker 1 (09:05):
I confuse that when I went to your when I
went to your live event, you're not supposed to interrupt
it those And so I stood up and started. I
just think everywhere I go as a podcast, and I
can interrupt whenever I want.

Speaker 2 (09:19):
Yeah, you're the guests at every event, ladies and gentlemen,
Jamie loftus I said after Jamie walked through the background
in a hot dog costume. This is a nineteen oh
seven translation of a story called Vasilisa the Beauty or
Vasalisa the Beautiful or whatever, but this translation translated the

(09:40):
title is Vasilisa the Beauty. Once in a certain country
lived a merchant. He had been married twelve years and
had only one child, a daughter, Vasalisa, whom everyone called
Vasilisa the Beauty when her mother died. I mean, everyone
says everyone called her Vasilisa the beauty, but obviously some
people called her Vasalisa the beautiful, so okay, and some

(10:02):
people of Beslisa the fair.

Speaker 1 (10:05):
Vasliza. I mean, I appreciate that that's the only thing
that we know about her so far.

Speaker 2 (10:11):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's let's be clear. She's hot.

Speaker 1 (10:14):
She's fucking hot.

Speaker 2 (10:15):
We are talking about a girl slash woman. Is there
anything else right that you would need to know about
this character?

Speaker 1 (10:21):
Well? No, see, that's that's the thing. I it's I
need to know coming in that the protagonist is conventionally hot,
or why would I continue listening to the story.

Speaker 2 (10:32):
Yeah no, totally flip my.

Speaker 1 (10:34):
Table and leap.

Speaker 2 (10:35):
And absolutely, yeah, don't worry. This whole story is absolutely
there's no more problems. No, no, uh, anyway, amazing. So
she's hot. Yeah, and she's eight so oh no, but
but she does grow up.

Speaker 1 (10:53):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (10:55):
When her mother died, the little girl was eight years old.
On her deathbed, she called her young daughter to her,
took out from under the bedclothes a doll, gave it
to her, and said, listen, dear little Vesselisa, remember and
fulfill my last words. I am dying, and leave you
with a mother's blessing. This doll. Keep it always with you,

(11:16):
and show it to no one, And whenever misfortune happens
to you, give it something to eat and ask its advice. Thereupon,
the mother kissed her little daughter and died this merchant.
The merchant, after his wife's death, mourned as long as
was reasonable, which I don't know how long is reasonable. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:35):
Fun, that sounds like a fun. There are certain phrases
when you know you're reading a translation where you're like,
something got lost there, because that sounds so I don't know,
no feelings.

Speaker 2 (11:48):
Yeah, yeah, no, totally. I actually switched to this translation
from a different translation because this sentence made even less
sense than the other translation. I can't remember it all
the top of my had it was actually from a
couple of years later, so I thought it would be
a more slightly you know, six year more contemporary translation.

Speaker 1 (12:06):
But yeah, post, the post Titanic translation really changed the game.

Speaker 2 (12:10):
Yeah, absolutely. And I totally remember what year the Titanic
went down.

Speaker 1 (12:14):
Oh it's oh, you don't want to know. It went
down between April fourteenth and April fifteenth and nineteen twelve.
I used to sit on my roof every single year
growing up during the times the Titanic was sinking and
really just think about, uh, think about the lives lost
during the Titanic. Very sick way to spend your childhood.

Speaker 2 (12:36):
Were you a goth kid?

Speaker 1 (12:38):
No, I was. I was just kind of a weird kid. Okay,
So I feel like maybe we've talked about that. I
don't remember, but I tried to fit into various alternative
groups as a kid, and no one quite took me on.

Speaker 2 (12:53):
It was like just the wrong thing to mourn. No
one mourns the Titanic.

Speaker 1 (12:58):
I tried. I tried the goth kid, but I couldn't
quite hang. I tried the Juggalos, who were like such
a nice group of kids at my high school, but
they always played hacky sack in a circle outside, and
I wore a back brace, and they're like, you can't
play hacky sack. Couldn't that be a jungle? So I
just I just played the obo and minded my own business.

Speaker 2 (13:21):
Okay, Okay, Well, I hope.

Speaker 1 (13:25):
He warns as long as is reasonable.

Speaker 2 (13:27):
Yeah, yeah, morens as long as was reasonable, And then
began to think about getting married again. He was a
good sensible man and did not concern himself with the maidens.
But best of all, he liked a certain young widow.
She knew about children, had two daughters of her own,
about the same age as vas Lisa, and of course
could keep the house and do all that a mother
should do. Okay, the mother married the widow who I

(13:51):
don't think that's a name.

Speaker 1 (13:52):
Okay. Oh, I was about to say, I like the
widow's my favorite so far, because I just like the
energy that a second wife brings into a story.

Speaker 2 (14:04):
I have bad news for you about folklore and mother
in laws.

Speaker 1 (14:07):
Oh. I know folklore hates the second wife, but as
an aspiring second wife, I'm always rooting for them.

Speaker 2 (14:15):
Okay, Okay. He made a mistake. He did not find
her a good mother for his child. Vasilissa was the
prettiest girl in the whole village, and the stepmother and
the stepsisters were envious of her beauty. They treated her
cruelly and made her do impossible tasks so that she
might grow thin under the burden, and her complexion might
turn dark under the wind and the sun. It was indeed,

(14:37):
it was no life for her at all.

Speaker 1 (14:41):
Was she not going outside prior to this?

Speaker 2 (14:43):
Yeah, she was beautiful, so of course she wasn't going outside.

Speaker 1 (14:46):
That's true.

Speaker 2 (14:47):
She had to be kept in doors, but Vasilissa bore
it uncomplainingly, and every day she grew more beautiful and
plump than ever, while her stepmother and stepsisters grew uglier
and thinner from ill temper, in spite of the fact
that they never did anything but sit around with folded hands,
like fine ladies, How did this happen?

Speaker 1 (15:07):
Okay, that's literally what we do, so I'm still rooting
for them.

Speaker 2 (15:12):
Yeah, yeah, no, that's fair. Vasilisa's doll helped her. Had
it not been for that, the poor girl could not
have stood so much work. Vasilissa did not eat the
daintiest morsels of her scanty fair, but she put them
aside for her little doll, and in the evening, when
the rest had gone to bed, she would shut herself
into her little room and give it the good things, saying, hear,

(15:34):
little doll, eat something and listen to my tale of woe. Here.
I live in my papa's house, but I do not
get any pleasure out of it. My wicked stepmother is
trying to drive me out of the bright world. Teach
me how must I behave and what must I do?

Speaker 1 (15:50):
This is like something that I would do with my
American girl dolls and still do now as an adult
American girl doll collect This is, for example, a conversation
I would have with my doll logan, Okay, have you
ever been to the American Girl Doll Cafe? No?

Speaker 2 (16:07):
Where is this or anywhere?

Speaker 1 (16:11):
There's in most major American metropolitan cities. We gotta go.
I'm like, I wonder if you would like it's they
give you a three course meal. You have to eat
with a doll. If you don't have a doll, they'll
lend you one. And yes they serve the doll tiny food,
and yes you can drink there, and no, you don't

(16:31):
need a kid to go. I went for my twenty
seventh birthday, and I had a hell of a time.

Speaker 3 (16:37):
I think Margaret would either love or hate it, no
in between.

Speaker 1 (16:41):
I know, I'm could have on the fence on how
you but it is it is fun, just you know,
just tip well and they cut you off it after
three blue moons.

Speaker 2 (16:51):
Okay, okay, I can't imagine drinking anything else in front
of an American girl doll, like.

Speaker 1 (17:00):
No, absolutely, and they will not serve the American girl
doll a tiny blue moon, although I was hopeful that
they might.

Speaker 2 (17:07):
I mean, it is a kid, it would be wrong.
I mean, although some of them are probably older than me.

Speaker 3 (17:12):
I was.

Speaker 1 (17:13):
I mean, I would say that Logan, you know, if
I'm sticking to Logan Cannon, I would say he would
sneak a sip of beer. You know, sure is he
canonically fourteen? Yes, but a lot of fourteen year olds sneap,
sneak a little sip here and there.

Speaker 2 (17:28):
I'm not going to answer. Okay, so any of this
about my own life and the night first drink because
my parents listen to this podcast. So I'm back on
board with Vasilisa. The doll would eat a little and
give her good advice and console her for her sorrow,
and before morning came, it would finish every one of
Vasilisa's tasks while she was resting in the cool air

(17:50):
or gathering flowers. The beds were weeded for her, the
cabbage is watered, the pails filled, and the fire made.
The doll also taught her how to avoid sunburn. It
was fine to live with the doll. Is does Logan
do that all that?

Speaker 1 (18:06):
No, Logan has never advised me on my skincare routine
even once. And I'm just realizing, like the magic of
a doll that that you're dying relative gives you. Maybe
it's that is.

Speaker 2 (18:19):
The skincare yer. This is the second time skincare has
come up on this podcast. Last time is about the
blood of children or the blood of the virgins?

Speaker 1 (18:29):
Oh okay, I mean that that is a classic skincare
technique and they don't. You can still use it, but
they just call it something different. Now. Yeah, and I'm
not going to say what it is, but it's hyaluronic acid.
That's the blood of virgins.

Speaker 2 (18:43):
Okay, Okay, this gets deeper into anyone who listened to
the episode where I talked about that, Tori, now you
know more about why that worked. Several years past, and
Vasilisa grew up into a beautiful maiden. All the young
men in town sought her, though none none of them
would so much as look her stepsisters. The step mother
was crosser than ever and replied to all the suitors,

(19:05):
we will not give the youngest one before the older ones.
As soon as she had sent the suitors away, she
would vent her spite on Vasilisa with blows. Now it
happened that the merchant was obliged to go away from
home for a long time on important business. The stepmother
went to live in another house which stood near a
dense forest, and in this was a hut where Baba Yaga,

(19:27):
the Witch dwelt. She was a wicked hat who never
permitted any person to approach her, and she ate men
like chickens.

Speaker 1 (19:36):
Love her, loving her already, I'm imagining the uh the
like reveal of Angelica Houston and the Witches as Babba
Yaga's like reveal yea into the story, Yeah, oh love it.

Speaker 2 (19:53):
Having settled into her new home, the merchant's wife kept
inventing pretexts to send the detested Vasilissa into the forest.
The girl always came back without accident. The doll showed
her the way and did not let her go near
the Baba yagaz Hut. Autumn came. The stepmother one time
gave the three girls their evening's work to do. She
bade one to make woven lace, the second to knit stockings,

(20:16):
but she set Vasilissa to spinning. She put out the
lights throughout the house and left only one little candle
where the girls were working, and she herself went to bed.
While the girls were working, the candle began to gutter.
One of the girls took the snuffers to trim the wick,
but instead of doing so, she followed her mother's directions
and as if accidentally put out the candle.

Speaker 1 (20:38):
Wait, what is it? Candle guttering?

Speaker 2 (20:42):
Oh help, yeah, yeah, no no, so a candle guttering
is where it's like, oh, it's.

Speaker 1 (20:49):
Oh okay, okay, So it's doing the scary thing.

Speaker 2 (20:52):
Yeah yeah, it was like starting to go out.

Speaker 1 (20:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:55):
And then as for snuffers that somehow trim the wick,
I do not know what this object looks like. I
assumed it was one of those little bells that put
on the candle, but that doesn't trim the way, so
there must be scissors on the someone who's listening knows, as.

Speaker 1 (21:14):
An avid viewer of candle YouTube, I can say that
a wick trimmer and a candle snuffer two very different investments.

Speaker 2 (21:23):
You should argue with this and translator, because I think
that you would have done a better job. That's not
a sarcastic time. I mean, it wasn't earnest, but it
was somewhere in between the two. I'm trying to make
fun of it. Okay, now what are we going to do?
Ask the girls. There is not a light in the
whole house, and our stints are not finished. We must

(21:44):
go to the Babba Yaga after a light. I have
all the light I want from my bosom pin, said
the one who is working on the lace. I won't go,
and I won't go, said the one who was knitting stockings.
I have enough light for my knitting needles. Alisa must
go after the light, cried both of them. Hurry to
Baba Yaga the witch and get it, and they drove

(22:06):
her out of the room. Vasilissa went into her little room,
set before her doll the supper that she had saved
for her, and said, now, Dolly, take your supper and
listen to my tale of woe. They are sending me
to the Baba Yaga after fire, and the Baba Yaga
will eat me the doll ate the food, and her
eyes gleamed like two candles. Do not be afraid, little Vasilisa,

(22:28):
she said, sounding very much like a biblical angel. No,
I wasn't okay, go whither they send you. Only keep
me with you always. When you have me, you have
nothing to fear at the witch's hut. So Vasilisa made haste,
hid the doll in her pocket, and, having crossed herself,
went into the dense forest. As she went along, tremblingly,

(22:49):
a horseman suddenly galloped past her. He was white, His
dress was white, the horse he rode was white, and
the horse's trappings were white. Outdoors, it began to grow light.

Speaker 1 (22:59):
That's gonna be a metaphor. And that's going to be
a metaphor for something.

Speaker 2 (23:03):
What what have you did? You beat ahead of you?
You already knew this story.

Speaker 1 (23:06):
Okay, This, this damn doll is cracking me up. This
doll goes back and forth between being like an employee
of Vasilisi's and then randomly acting like the Godfather, like
I'm picturing the doll with like cutting a steak, being like,
don't worry about it, bringing in a witch's house. We're
gonna take care of this.

Speaker 2 (23:27):
No, Like, the doll is absolutely the uninterrogated character in
this Like all of the other characters have like these
like explanations and like Bobby ya guy is like this
crazy witch, but nothing about the fucking doll that is like,
this doll is.

Speaker 1 (23:42):
Very versatile in the roles they can fill in the
story because it's like, I love the doll, and I
am picturing like kind of a Danny DeVito voice coming
out of coming out of a doll to take care
of the situation.

Speaker 2 (23:58):
Yeah, I've just I think the doll represents financial privilege,
but I'm not sure, because you can just like your
mom died leave to you with this blessing where you
don't have to do any work and you don't have
to worry about anything because anytime you're worried, you just
fall back on it.

Speaker 1 (24:14):
Stand inside and be hot. Yeah that's the moral.

Speaker 2 (24:17):
Yeah, yeah, full morals are not great. Okay. She walked
farther and another horseman galloped past. He was red, his
clothing was red, and he rode a red horse, the
sun began to rise. Vasilisa walked all night and day,
and only toward the next evening did she reach the
clearing where stood the Baba Yaga's hut. The fence around
the hut was made of men's bones, and the posts

(24:39):
were decorated with human skulls instead of door posts where
men's leg bones. Instead of shutters were arms. Instead of
a lock, was a mouth with sharp teeth.

Speaker 1 (24:51):
I'm getting the idea. Yeah, I would love if this
description went on for ten pages. Like instead of a
door knob.

Speaker 4 (25:00):
There there was a little There is a little vial
of hair instead of a Yeah, there is a fingernail
instead of one of those things that goes on the window.

Speaker 2 (25:10):
Yeah. The doorbell was just a guy who was like,
you can hit me with a stick.

Speaker 1 (25:14):
Oh, yell, you have to spank someone with a stick
or she won't come to the door.

Speaker 3 (25:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (25:21):
And actually, apparently in the original before this translation, they
then talked about the chicken legs, but the translator was like, oh,
I don't know, that seems complicated, and it was like
ruining his vibe.

Speaker 1 (25:33):
Wow, this translator, I really have some because like that's
the part. Yeah, it's a big it's a fascinating Yeah,
that's very scary.

Speaker 2 (25:42):
Yeah, Vassi Lisa was benumbed with terror and which obviously
doesn't make any sense unless it's the chicken legs, so okay.
But Vasilisa was benumbed with terror and stood as if
rooted to the spot. Suddenly another horseman came riding along.
He was black, His clothing was black, and he rode
a black horse. He galloped up to the Baba Yaga's
gates and disappeared as if he had sunk through the earth.

(26:05):
Night had come, but the darkness did not last long.
In the skulls on the fence, eyes gleamed, and it
was as light as noon all over the clearing. Vasilissa
shook with terror, but not knowing where to run, she
remained where she was. Soon a terrible noise was heard
in the forest. The trees trembled and the dry leaves rustled.

(26:27):
It was the Baba Yaga coming. She stormed along in
a mortar. She whipped it up with her pestle, and
she swept away the tracks with her besom besom which
I looked it up. It's a It just means an
old witch's broom like it's a broom Okay, yeah cool?

Speaker 1 (26:42):
Wait, new word for bessum b b M.

Speaker 2 (26:45):
I don't know how to pronounce it. I probably should
have looked it up.

Speaker 1 (26:48):
Now I'm into it.

Speaker 2 (26:50):
She came up to the gates, paused and sniffing all around, cried,
fo fo fo, I smell Russian breath? Who is here?
Vasilisa approached me. Vasilisa approached the old dame with fear
and trembling and bowing low, said it is I Granny,

(27:11):
my stepmother's daughter, sent me to you to get some
fire because there's like nowhere else in town. She could
have gotten fire with two days walk. But you know whatever.

Speaker 1 (27:19):
I'm imagining like be Arthur, Like I'm trying to I'm
trying to get a visual on Baba Yaga. But who
do I want to hear storm out and say I
smell Russian blood? Be Arthur? I think?

Speaker 2 (27:33):
Okay, wait, who's b Arthur. I'm just gonna admit that
I don't.

Speaker 1 (27:35):
Ah, she's the tall golden girl Margaret.

Speaker 2 (27:39):
Oh shit, okay, yep, yeah that would rule way.

Speaker 1 (27:42):
It works for me. It works for me.

Speaker 2 (27:44):
Yeah, good, exclaimed Baba Yaga. That is a good actor. No, good,
explained Baba Yaga. I know them, live on and do
some work for me and then I will give you
some fire. But if you do not do it, then
I will eat you up. She turned to the gates
and cried, hey, my strong fence, give way, open my

(28:05):
high gates open. The gates opened, and the Bobby Aga
went in, and Vasilissa followed her, and then all was
closed tight again. As soon as she entered the room,
the Bobby Aga stretched herself out and said to Vasilissa,
bring me here. What is on the stove? I want
to eat? And what do you think, Jamie Loftus, that
there was to eat at? Which is hut hmm?

Speaker 1 (28:27):
Well, I could imagine some homemade stuff, but wouldn't it
be better if there were, like maybe some sponsored products.

Speaker 2 (28:35):
I was just thinking that. I was thinking, what is
better for Vasilisa and Bobbyaga and for you the listener
than a hearty stew made of potatoes sponsor of the show. Okay,
the concept of potatoes.

Speaker 1 (28:49):
You're sponsored by Hardy Zoo made of potatoes.

Speaker 2 (28:53):
We are, we are.

Speaker 3 (28:54):
But I for sure thought one Jamie Loftus was going
to come out and say hot dogs.

Speaker 1 (29:00):
Look, I mean if there's good. And if there's anything
that is more likely to have the flesh of question
mark in it, is it not the classic dish the
hot dog? The rumors are not baseless, all right, a
hot dog horror story. God, it's too late, it's almost

(29:21):
Halloween already. But a witch who blends children into hot dogs.
Oh it's exciting. No one take that idea. That's my idea.

Speaker 2 (29:33):
Right now, change this sentence to bring me here? What
is on the stove? I want to eat those hot dogs?
Never mind who is in them, said the Bobby of God.
And you know what else was in them was all
of the other products and sponsors of this podcast, like
these ones. And we are back and Vasilissa laid it

(29:58):
a splinter at the skull's eye on the fence and
began to take down the food from the stove and
give it to Bobby Yaka. There was enough hot dogs
for ten men. From the cellar. She brought bread and meat,
obviously long meat and a long bread.

Speaker 1 (30:13):
Tube in a natural casing. Yeah, yeah, beer and snap.
I'm sure she's I think I think she I'm trying
to think of, like, what is a villainous hot dog?
I mean, but she's like, I feel like she would
know what she was doing. She would be it would
be grilled, it would be natural casing, like she'd be
eating good hot dogs. She's not boiling this shit, that's

(30:36):
for sure.

Speaker 2 (30:36):
What about those the really old the like twenty years
ago vegan hot dog, the tofu dogs. I feel like
that's the most villainous hot dog.

Speaker 1 (30:44):
I can imagine the Yeah that just like falls apart
in your hands, and you're supposed to be like, thank you, Yeah,
totally yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:54):
The old Dame ate and drank, leaving for Vesslisa only
a bit of soup, a crust of bread, and a
morsel of roast pig, not even a hot dog. Then
the Babba Yaga lay down to sleep, saying, when morning comes,
I am going out, keep your eyes open. Clean the court,
sweep the hut, get the dinner, prepare the bedclothes. Then
go into the corn bin, take forty bushels of wheat

(31:15):
and clean it a fennel. Have all of this completely done,
or I will eat you up. After giving this command,
the Babba Yaga began to snore Vasilissa, but the old
Dame's leavings before the doll burst into tears and said,
now eat little doll and listen to my tale of woe.
The Babba Yaga has given me such a heavy task
to perform, and she threatens to eat me up if

(31:37):
it is not all accomplished. Help me privilege, the doll replied,
fear not, Vasilisa, eat your supper, say your prayers, and
go to sleep. Morning is wiser than the evening, which
is actually good advice, that is a actual good moral,
that is true.

Speaker 1 (31:53):
I mean I feel like it's pulled from the same
logic of like, don't go to bed angry, don't make
any big decisions late at night. Yeah, but this is
like the dolls in Godfather mode again.

Speaker 2 (32:05):
Yeah. Absolutely, Yeah. Well that's sitting there with the tiny
fork and spoon eating.

Speaker 1 (32:10):
The yeah, cutting up, yeah, cutting up a hot dog.
It's taking a lot of effort, but they're so confident
that you're like, ah, she'll get it. Yeah, it's fine.

Speaker 2 (32:18):
And then it starts eating it, like like when a
Lord of the Rings villain is like eating really gross
and sickly at a feast and like it's a a
representation wowed.

Speaker 1 (32:27):
Yeah yeah, and then everyone's like, I have musophonia.

Speaker 2 (32:30):
Please Vasilisa did so. She awoke rather early, but the
babbia Ga was up before her and was looking out
the window. The eyes and the skulls were growing dim,
and now the white horseman galloped by, and it became
quite bright. The Bobbiyaga went outdoors whistled, and before her
appeared her mortar and pestle and bassoom. The red horseman

(32:51):
flashed by, and the sun came up. The Babiyaga got
into her mortar and started off. She spurred it on
with the pestle and swept away the traces with herme.
Vasilisa was left alone, and she began to investigate the
bobby AGA's house. She was amazed at the abundance of everything,
and she could not make up her mind which task
she would take hold of first. But she soon discovered

(33:12):
that her work was done for her already. The doll
was just separating out from the wheat the last grains
of the fennel. Oh you are my dear deliver, exclaimed Vasilisa.
You have saved me from misfortune. All that is left
for you to do is to get dinner, replied the doll,
climbing into Vasilisa's pocket. Get it and God be with you.

(33:32):
But now take a good rest for your health.

Speaker 1 (33:36):
Vasilisa is going to get hit with the invoice of
a lifetime from this doll. Yeah, she's thinking, this is
like some sort of long term internship. This doll is
going to come back for her money.

Speaker 2 (33:51):
This is a fiet okay. Toward evening, Vasilisa left the
table and waited for the babbi Aga. It began to
grow dark. The black horseman galloped by the gates. Then
the eyes and the skulls began to gleam, The trees trembled,
the leaves rustled. Up came the baba Yaga. Vasilissa met her.
Is your work all done? Asked the hag. You can
see for yourself, granny, replied Vasilisa. The Babbiyaga looked all

(34:13):
around and became very angry, because there was nothing to
be angry about. We've all been there.

Speaker 1 (34:19):
Okay, yeah wow hashtag relatable content from the Babiyaga.

Speaker 2 (34:23):
Yeah, very good, she said, sullenly. Then she cried, my
faithful servants, my bosom friends, grind my wheat for me.
Instantly appeared three pairs of hands seized the wheat and
carried it out of sight. The witch ate her supper,
laid down to sleep, and gave again Besilissa her orders tomorrow.

(34:44):
Do the same as you did today, But above all,
take from the corn crib the poppy and clean it
of all dirt to the last seed. You'll cause trouble
for someone if the least bit of earth is mixed
with the poppy. Then she turned her face to the
wall and began to snore. As before, Vasilisa gave her
doll something to eat. The doll ate it and told
her what she had told her the night before. Pray

(35:07):
to God and go to sleep. Morning is wiser than evening.
All shall be done, dear little Vasilisa. In the morning,
baby Aga again flew away in her mortar, and Vasilisa
and the doll quickly accomplished the work that was to
be done. In the evening, the old hag came home,
inspected everything, and cried out, my faithful servants, my bosom friends,

(35:27):
make some oil out of this poppy. Three pairs of
hands appeared, seized the poppy, and carried it out of sight.
The baby Aga sat down to supper, and while she ate,
Vasilisa stood by in silence. Why don't you have something
to say to me, asked the witch. You stand there
like one tongue tied. I did not dare to, said Vasilisa,
But if you will allow me, I should like to

(35:48):
ask you something. Ask away. Only remember not every question
leads to good. If you come to know too much,
you will quickly grow old.

Speaker 1 (35:57):
Ooh scary ah, scary message. Also, why has the Vasilisa
tried to poison her yet? Vasilisa is just.

Speaker 2 (36:07):
Come on, come on, ish, well, we'll actually talk about it.

Speaker 1 (36:12):
Not that I want the Babiyaga to get hurt, because
she sounds incredible. She sounds like a legend and like
she wouldn't fall for it.

Speaker 2 (36:19):
I know, the like why Vasilisa is a goody two shoes.
We'll actually end up talking about Okay, cool, I only
wanted to ask you about what I saw Grannie. As
I was coming to you, I was overtaken by a
white horseman on a white horse and white clothes. Who
is he? That is my bright day? Said the Babiaga.

(36:40):
Then I was overtaken by another horseman on a red horse.
He was red and in red clothes. Who is he?
That is my red son? Replied the Babiaga, and what
was the meaning of the black horseman who overtook me
just at your gates? Grannie, that was my black knight.
All are my faithful servants. Vasilisa remembered the three pairs
of hands, but said nothing more. Why don't you ask

(37:02):
something more, demanded the Babbiaga. I am afraid of what
you said might happen to me. If one comes to
know too much, one grows old. It is good, said
the babbia Ga, that you should only ask about what
you have seen out of doors and not what you
have seen in the house. I do not like people
to tell tales about me out of school, and I
eat up those who are too inquisitive. And now I'm

(37:24):
going to put a question to you. How did you
succeed in doing the work which I gave you to do? Wow,
my mother's blessings helped me.

Speaker 1 (37:32):
Talk shitn't end up in a hot dog?

Speaker 2 (37:36):
That is I mean, that's your slogan. You have that
back patch on your vest that this has talk shit
end up in a hot If you.

Speaker 1 (37:43):
Talk about what you see in my house, you can
end up in a hot dog.

Speaker 2 (37:47):
Yeah, what is that? Be gone for me? You daughter
with the blessing I don't want people who have been blessed,
and she dragged Vasilisa from the room and pushed her
out of the gates. Then she took down from the
fence one of the skulls with the lighted eyes, put
it on a stick and gave it to her, saying,
here is the light for your stepsisters. Take it. That
is what they sent you here for. Vassilisa hastened home

(38:11):
on the run by the light of the skull, and
it did not go out till the next morning. At last,
toward the evening on the second day, she reached her home.
As she went through the gates, she was going to
throw the skull away. Why of course, she said to herself,
they won't need the light now. But suddenly she heard
a quiet voice from the skull saying, don't throw me away,

(38:32):
take me to your step mother. Okay, yeah, uhuh. She
looked up at her stepmother's house, and, not seeing a
light in any window, she resolved to go in with
the skull. The first persons she met spoke kindly to
her and told her that since she had been away
there had been no light in the house. They couldn't
make anything burn, and the fire which they tried to

(38:54):
bring from the neighbors went out the moment it was
brought into the house. Perhaps your light will keep, said
the stepmother. They carried the skull into the house. Then
the eyes gazed so steadily at the stepmother and the
daughters that it burnt them. They tried to hide, but
wherever they went the eyes always followed them. In the morning,
they were burnt to ashes. But it did not touch Vasilisa.

Speaker 1 (39:17):
Wow, because she she didn't do shit, and she minded
her own business like a good girl.

Speaker 2 (39:23):
Yeah, you're starting to get you're starting to catch on.
This is not Bobby a gospel that she has used
this way.

Speaker 1 (39:31):
No, Bobbi, you got blameless. Yeah, did nothing wrong? Yeah,
Bobby your God did nothing wrong? Is a shirt out?

Speaker 2 (39:39):
Yeah totally. Then Vasilissa buried the skull in the ground,
locked the house up, and went into the city and
asked for shelter with an old woman with whom she
had no relations, or who had no relations. She said
to the old woman, it is tiresome for me to
have nothing to do. Grannie, come buy me the very
best flax and I will spin it for you. Okay. Yeah,

(40:00):
that was like more evidence.

Speaker 1 (40:01):
That she's acting so weirday, Why is she acting so weird?
The three like, I know she didn't like her relatives
and they were cruel to her, but they turned to
ash and she's like, better bury this skull and go
find someone to adopt me. Like what is wrong with her?

Speaker 3 (40:17):
All right?

Speaker 2 (40:17):
But but hear me out. If I'm staying with some
people and then I murder the shit out of them
by accident, I might bury it and then move to
a different city.

Speaker 1 (40:30):
I guess. So, I guess I'm just not expecting this
from Vasilissa, who has not done really much active things
so far.

Speaker 2 (40:38):
Was pretty, That's true.

Speaker 1 (40:41):
She was pretty and she never got a sunburn, which
this story is weirdly fixated on sunburns and just burns
in general.

Speaker 2 (40:48):
Yeah, yep, yeah. The woman brought some of the very
best flacks and Vasilisa sat down to her task. The
work fairly glowed under her hands, and the thread that
she made came out as smooth and as even as
her hair. She made a lot of thread, the finest
that was ever seen. No one could equal it. Vasilisa

(41:09):
had gone to ask her doll's advice, and the doll
had said, bring me an old comb, in an old shuttle,
even a curry comb. I will do it for you.
So Vasilisa got her all that was asked for and
went to bed, and the doll during the day made
a splendid loom. Toward the end of the winter, the
linen was all spun and it was so fine that
one could pass it through the eye of a needle

(41:30):
like thread. In the spring, they bleached the linen and
Vasilisa said to the old woman, Granny, take this linen
and get some money for it. The old dame looked
at the stuff and exclaimed, no, my dear child, no
one except the Tsar should wear such linen. I will
take it to court.

Speaker 1 (41:50):
What this is a very eccentric area. That's like. Okay, imagine,
if you will, Mary, you present me with a scarf
that you've knitted, and I retort by saying, I couldn't
possibly wear this scarf. We've got to bring this scarf

(42:12):
to the White House. We've got to Joe Biden needs
this scarf. I need Joe Biden wearing this scarf today
and I will personally bring what a wild reaction. Okay, Okay,
I'm on board.

Speaker 2 (42:32):
It's a scarf that my don't here that Taylor the
American doll. What's wait, what's your Tyler? Oh, Logan, Logan,
Logan and Tyler are the same in my head.

Speaker 1 (42:42):
I'm sorry, Logan Logan, same energy. Sorry, sorry, sorry to
all the Logans and Tyler's out there. Yeah, yeah, okay,
So we're bringing we're bringing the dolls scarf to the
Joe Biden of the area.

Speaker 2 (42:57):
Interesting and what else should we bring to this our's court?

Speaker 1 (43:01):
Well, I mean you're supposed to bring certain offerings, and
a lot of them I think should be sponsored. Good
then maybe even services.

Speaker 2 (43:08):
Okay, okay, well then let's uh, let's let's listen and
then pick through and pick our favorite, and we are back.
And none of those ads are good enough for Joe Biden.

Speaker 1 (43:23):
Oh wow. If there's one thing I know about Margaret Kiljoy,
it's that she wants what's best for Joe. I have
nothing that I can say, always threading.

Speaker 2 (43:37):
About Yeah, much like I feel about the Czar. So
she went to the Tsar's palace and kept marching up
and down in front of the windows. The Czar saw
her and asked, what do you want, old Dame. Your majesty,

(43:57):
she replied, I have brought you some wonderful cloth. I
do not want to show it to anyone except yourself.
This doesn't turn into a murder of the czar thing,
which is really confusing to me.

Speaker 1 (44:08):
Oh that's a that's a bummer. I was sort of
hoping that Bobby Yeagau would have it in for the Czar. Yeah,
something like, yeah, yeah, we should. It's not where it's
going though.

Speaker 2 (44:20):
No, although like I'm like, I probably shouldn't rewrite it
on the flat.

Speaker 1 (44:23):
Okay, we could punch this up. He really, I think.

Speaker 2 (44:27):
We're here, we'll workshop this.

Speaker 1 (44:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (44:30):
The Czar commanded that it be brought before him, and
when he saw the linen, he was dumbfounded. Why did
you think you should know? What will you take for this?
He asked? It will not cost you anythings, our father,
I have brought it for you as a gift. The
Czar thanked her and sent her off heirdo with handsome presence. Yeah,

(44:51):
it's almost like the concept of folklore is to reinforce
values that the society wants people to have.

Speaker 1 (44:57):
But how is bring the czar bring the all? Right? Whatever? Fine?

Speaker 2 (45:05):
From that linen. They started to make the czar some shirts.
They cut them out, but they could not find a
seamstress anywhere to make them. They searched long, and at
last the Tsar summoned the old Dame and said to her,
you are clever enough to spin and weave this cloth,
you must be clever enough to make some shirts out
of it. Sovereign, it was not I who spun and
wove this cloth, said the old Dame. It is the
work of my adopted daughter. Well let her make them,

(45:27):
he said. The woman went home and told Vasilisa all
about this I knew, said Vasilisa, that this work of
my hands would not suit them. She shut herself in
her room and took hold of the work. She sewed steadily,
without once letting it out of her hands, and soon
a dozen shirts were ready. The Dame took the shirts
to the Tsar, and Vasilisa washed her face and hands,

(45:48):
combed her hair, dressed herself, and sat down at the window,
waiting to see what would happen. Presently, one of the
Tsar's servants came into the old dame's yard and said,
our sovereign Czar wishes to see the clever artist who
has made him the shirts, and to reward him from
his own hands, Vasilissa and went and showed herself before
the eyes of the Tzar. When he saw the fair

(46:09):
young girl, who there's been no evidence that this character
has grown old. Just be clear.

Speaker 1 (46:15):
I'm very curious. Yeah, yeah, okay, thank you for clearing
that up. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:20):
When he saw the fair young girl, he fell passionately
in love with her. No, he exclaimed, I will never
part with you. No, you shall be my wife. So
the Tsar Tooksila, I hate this town. Yeah, no fun
this place.

Speaker 1 (46:33):
This place is so stressful. Yeah, but it feels like
Bobby Yaga is like the Babbyaga is the only person
who is reacting to anything with the proper intensity.

Speaker 4 (46:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:46):
Absolutely, absolutely, So the Tsar took Vasilisa by her white
hands and caused her to sit by his side. Caused
her to sit by.

Speaker 1 (46:55):
His side cause, oh this is so yeah, this translation
is freaking me out. Yeah, caused her. I'm imagining a
suplex like.

Speaker 2 (47:07):
I mean, what is marriage in a traditional nineteen like
back in the day anyway.

Speaker 1 (47:14):
But causing you to sit by someone else's said, I
guess it's true. It implies lack of choice.

Speaker 2 (47:19):
Yeah, and so they celebrated a great wedding Vasilissa's father
soon afterwards returned home. He is not like, she's like
gone off and got herself adopted by He was delighted
with her good fortune.

Speaker 1 (47:33):
No, go ahead, and it was he like, where is
my wife at? Where my stepp done? Why?

Speaker 2 (47:38):
Why would we care about that?

Speaker 1 (47:41):
You're right, his daughter has been caused to marry the czar,
So yeah, fuck his wife.

Speaker 2 (47:45):
Yeah. He was delighted with her good fortune, and from
that time forth he lived at his daughter's. Vasilisa took
the old dame also to be with her, but the
doll she kept in her pocket to the very end
of her days.

Speaker 1 (48:00):
The end, the end. This story is confusing. I have
I'm gonna go full like worst kind of YouTuber mode
and be like all the plot holes in the Babba
Yagas story. Interesting, let's get into it. Looks like someone
some writers didn't get the message that a story is

(48:22):
supposed to have a beginning, of middle, and an end. Jamie,
you're triggering me. I do not like this.

Speaker 2 (48:30):
Geez wait, Jamie, where did you get that hat? What
do you call that type of hat? Is that a
trophy or a fedora?

Speaker 1 (48:38):
Oh well, he lady, it's a fedora. And in this
essay I will be talking about the implications of the
Babba Yaga and why Vasilisa did nothing wrong. I oh
my god, what I do? That said? That said a

(49:00):
lot of questions about the Bobby a God doesn't even
get to come back. That's my that's my sadness. She disappears.

Speaker 2 (49:07):
So one of the things about the stories about Babbia
Go is bobbya God is always a side character. Bobby
a guy is okay, Sometimes Babbia guys like the main villain, right,
and this one babbya Go's barely even a villain. But
Babbia guys always a thing that people are tested against
rather than like really even a person in a lot

(49:30):
of ways.

Speaker 1 (49:33):
So so I guess like in the internal logic of
this story, like Vasilisa navigating and surviving the Babba Yaga
situation is just like what she needs to get her
to go get Vanquish, to get as our husband. Yeah, huh, Margaret,
I have a question, which is what is the moral

(49:57):
of this story?

Speaker 2 (49:59):
So the moral of the story, as far as I
can tell, the moral of a lot of Babbiaga stories
is listen to your mother and don't trust the bad mother,
which is either the step mother or the wicked witch
in the woods. Babia Ga like often is the stand
in for like bad mom is like as the evil
old woman figure. And so basically there's different like lessons.

(50:23):
It's who gets thrown against Bobby a Ga like leads
to different things. And if you're a young girl, then
being obedient is the way to deal with Bobby a Ga.
And I think if you're a grown ass man, being
looking for a lady is a good way to interact
with Bobby a GAK. And yeah, I don't know. It's

(50:45):
basically this like fear of the woods, like don't go
into the dark woods or the witch will eat you.
But if you're good and obedient, you will survive that experience.

Speaker 1 (50:56):
And what is a scarier thing in this era then
an older woman living by herself and seeming to have
a nice time. Yeah yeah, yeah, terrifying.

Speaker 2 (51:09):
So I'm going to talk a little bit. We're gonna
talk about like kind of who Babby Yaga is today
and then when we come back Wednesday, we'll talk more
about what it all means and there'll be another story.

Speaker 1 (51:21):
Cool, there's another story, Okay because this one. Sorry, I
don't know. I'm putting my Fedora on again. What is
the So is the doll kind of this like personification
of good good mommy. And then Babba.

Speaker 2 (51:38):
Yaga is that's maybe the most famous story about Babi Yaga,
and it's the one I run across the most, partly
because there's this really beautiful art from the nineteen hundred
edition of us A Lisa. The Beautiful that is like
metal bands use it as their T shirts. I have
a Ragana shirt, which is a really sick metal band.
It's a do metal band and they use specially. So

(52:00):
the Beautiful is their art and stuff. But probably for
other reasons.

Speaker 1 (52:04):
Is a popular character that's interesting, No.

Speaker 2 (52:09):
I mean I think it's like I think it's because
the art. Honestly, there's like this, like you know, Russian
girl walking through the woods with a skull gleaming light
on a stick. It's pretty fucking metal, you know.

Speaker 1 (52:21):
Oh yeah, I see that shirt at the merch booth.
I take out my.

Speaker 2 (52:29):
Yeah, yeah, totally, yeah, that's right. Never mind, all right.
And so, so she's the the scary old crone that
lives in the woods and in some stories she helps,
some stories she hurts, but and the ones which she helps.
She always has the capacity to do great violence. She's
never like, hey, little lost friend, here you go. And
it's as I was talking about earlier, but now I'm

(52:51):
just reading the script anyway, it's the clever girls, the
ones who do as they're told, who survive their encounters
with Bobby A gom So. Who the fuck is Bob Yega?
It depends on the story. You'll be shocked to know this.
And there are some things that they all tend to
agree on. Babiyaga is a wizard old crone who lives

(53:13):
in the forest or at the edge of the forest,
sometimes underground, but usually edge of the forest. Her hut
stands on chicken legs. Sometimes it's two legs, sometimes it's
four legs. Sometimes it's goat legs, but usually it's chicken legs.

Speaker 1 (53:27):
I yeah, I mean, not that anyone asked, but I
really loved the chicken legs.

Speaker 2 (53:33):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (53:33):
I just think it's because also precarious. Yeah you know, yeah,
goat legs are sturdy. Yeah, chicken legs. Excuse me, Okay, sorry,
I put my fedora on again.

Speaker 2 (53:48):
No, this is a it's a good it's your inner self.
I'm glad that you're letting your true self be seen.
The house can walk around on these legs. Sometimes it
can like move around, but more often it kind of
stays in one place, and it can turn in place
in a lot of ways. The house is its own entity.
Often when the traveler arrives, they can't find the door.

(54:11):
Sometimes the house is no windows or doors, and you
can make the house turn around and face you with
like the so you can see the door if you
say the right command, which one of the examples of
the right command is hut hut, stand with your back
to the forest, you're front to me, which is very literal.

Speaker 1 (54:28):
Oh, I'm saying that all the time.

Speaker 2 (54:29):
Yeah, yeah, totally, that's what I do. Uh, that's super helpful.
My self driving car that I totally own. That's how
I get my car to come to me. It's on
chicken legs.

Speaker 1 (54:39):
Yeah, Oh that's it. That would be I mean, if
there's anything that's going to get me on board with
self driving cars, which feels near impossible, but yeah, if
we're talking little chicken legs that can read my mind,
maybe plug me in checking car.

Speaker 2 (54:57):
They went down the wrong alley, like focusing on like
Tesla and all these like scientists. It should have been
focusing on Bobby Agha, which is why I'm looking for
investors for my company. That will No, I'm not going
to try and become an never mind. The hut is
surrounded by a fence made of bones, with skull lanterns
topping the posts. In some stories there's a skull missing,

(55:20):
which is a spot waiting to be your skull.

Speaker 1 (55:26):
Ooh, that is creepy. Yeah, Okay.

Speaker 2 (55:28):
Inside the hut, she might be lying on the stove,
her body stretched from one corner of the hut to
the other, with her nose having grown so long it
goes into the ceiling. Sometimes her breasts hang down over
a carton like a curtain rod. A lot of old
folklore is like really into being like, and this lady

(55:48):
is ugly, and by that I mean tits, saggy tits.
People get really into that.

Speaker 1 (55:55):
People. I mean people love some saggy tit imagery when
it comes to a woman they're supposed to hate. Yeah,
picking up on some anti Semitic stuff. This is like,
I feel like all the cartoon logic classics of a
way to characterize a villain in the worst kind of way. Yeah,
but I love her. I love that she like it,

(56:19):
like it? How does she get so big?

Speaker 2 (56:22):
I'm not it was sometimes actually a lot of stories
she's an ogress and like literally a giant, and I'll
talk a little bit about the origins of that version
of it. Sometimes she stirs the coals of her fire
with her nose. Sometimes she's a regular sized woman and
is like rail thin and ugly. Sometimes she has bear
claws for hands. Sometimes she has iron teeth, and sometimes

(56:43):
there's iron teeth like protrude from her gums, either like
bore tusks or just like kind of like sideways like
sticking out.

Speaker 1 (56:49):
Does she ever have guns for hands?

Speaker 2 (56:51):
Yeah? Probably. I can't imagine a version where she doesn't
have guns from hands actually, And like one of the
things that a lot of there's a lot of feminists
who quite like Bobby a Go for some odd reason.
And one of the main one one of the things
that comes up is that like she just does not
give a shit that she's ugly. She like revels in
her power, right, And that's like the beauty of being

(57:13):
a crone is like you're past the judgment of society
that wants like Vasilissa only has one value and it's
that she's beautiful and obedient. I guess she has two values.
Bobbiaga has all kinds of value because she can like
fuck everything up that she wants, and she controls night
and day and the sun and shit.

Speaker 1 (57:30):
You know, I love that rate of it because it's like, yeah,
i mean, Vasily's the beautiful I know we're supposed to
view her as the virtuous hero, but it's like everything
about her that's considered societally desirable is what is also
actively hindering her life totally being any kind of interesting
of like, okay, you we think you're beautiful, so you

(57:54):
can never go outside or have an experience. Yeah, and
the bizarre things. You're beautiful, so you actually have to
marry him today right now, and you're going to be
caused to sit next to him. Is that what it? Yes? Yeah,
So it is like she's and then the Bobby I got, Well,
you know, I'm sure that there are drawbacks, but it's

(58:16):
like she's just completely liberated from anyone's bullshit, which does
seem to have its merit. And she's a homeowner. Yeah, okay,
she's a homeowner.

Speaker 2 (58:27):
I know. And she doesn't have aspirational like she doesn't.
She is her own doll. She is her own you know,
godfather figure.

Speaker 1 (58:36):
She did right. She doesn't need a doll. She doesn't
need uh, she doesn't. She doesn't need a mommy. Yeah,
although I would, I do want to know what her
mom was like.

Speaker 2 (58:47):
Well, we'll talk a little bit about her origins. I
think maybe more on Wednesday, but I'm not sure. Where
is it in my script?

Speaker 1 (58:53):
Who knows? The only way to know is to go forward.

Speaker 2 (58:57):
Sometimes she has a leg made out of clay or
iron or steel. Sometimes on one leg has been like
shriveled down to bone. Sometimes the things that people say
about her rhyme like bobby ya gab bony leg rhymes
in Russian apparently. And she leaves every day she's off
to you know, she very She gets a lot done.

(59:17):
She goes off to wherever she's doing in the world,
usually to steal children for her meals. Comes home every night.
Out in the world. She rides around in a huge mortar,
like a you know, mortar pescle. She crouches in it
with her knees almost up to her chin in some
of the depictions, some of them it's like a little
bit yeah, And in one hand, she wields the pestle,

(59:39):
which she uses like a kind of like a riding
crop to drive the mortar along, although I've also seen
it where like she's like kind of paddling like a
canoe along the ground with it.

Speaker 1 (59:49):
Oh. I like that again, You're just like, this is
going to be very loud, Yeah, and arduous, which means
that while maybe she's not the most you know, mcan minded,
she must be pretty strong.

Speaker 2 (01:00:02):
That's true. I don't think I could if.

Speaker 1 (01:00:04):
You're heaving that thing, especially if you're in the fetal
position while you're doing it. Yeah, that takes some serious
upper arm strength on the bobby of gospel.

Speaker 2 (01:00:13):
Yeah, And she has three horsemen who are obedient to her,
and she's not like you there, ride this around for me.
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:00:20):
Do you think the horsemen are unionized? Do you think
they're paid?

Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
I don't know. I wonder about the four Horsemen of
the Apocalypse, Like is that a collective? Is it like
work around? Because if so, I don't know, fucking bring it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
What's the internal drama with the four horsemen? Because you
know that there's like.

Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
A polycule, there's some.

Speaker 1 (01:00:42):
There's a polycule in there, and you know, like, and
then there's there's one person who everyone is like, well,
if we had to vote one horseman off the island,
we all know who it was. Sorry, but like we're
not going to go there. Yeah, sorry, sorry to that horseman.

Speaker 2 (01:00:58):
Yeah, that's a good point. In her other hand, she
has a broom which she uses to sweep away the
tracks and some of the newer versions of the fairy tale.
And when I say newer, I mean like a hundred
years ago, like the mortar itself flies, and then she
uses the broom to like sweep away the like basically
like the contrails, like the way it disrupts the clouds
when she flies, she sweeps it away with the broom.

(01:01:20):
She's often surrounded by birds. Sometimes it's flocks of blackbirds
that announce her coming. The wind also announces her coming.
Sometimes black geese follow her around on her daily quest,
maybe helping her find the that. Yeah love that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
Maybe chickens used to follow her around and then something
terrible happened.

Speaker 2 (01:01:41):
No, they kind of like voltroned up into the house.

Speaker 1 (01:01:47):
Okay, I like that better.

Speaker 2 (01:01:49):
She smells when people are coming in almost every story
about her, specifically, she smells that they're Russian, and it
kind of reminds me of Jack in this beanstalk, you know,
like fee five so fum I smell the blood of
an English right m hm.

Speaker 1 (01:02:04):
And that's how there's I feel like there's there's certain
types of people that can smell insecure women from the
New England area in a similar way, and they're not
afraid to announce themselves either. Whatever the modern modern equivalent
of fe fi full FuMB is. It might just be

(01:02:25):
dming you high every week until you die.

Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
Yeah, it's like her pickup line, hi hi hi hi.

Speaker 1 (01:02:35):
I smell the blood someone who's visibly insecure. Yeah, exactly,
uh did for them.

Speaker 2 (01:02:46):
So Russian doesn't have a definite versus indefinite article in
speech like the versus a, and it uses other contexts
to get those ideas across. It's not like lacking that
concept as far as I understand, but translators often struggle
to understand. And so something that has come up a
lot is Bobbi Yaga a specific person or is it

(01:03:07):
like a type of creature? You know, is she Babbi
Yaga or she the Babba Yaga or she Bobby Yaga?
And the answer to that is yes, she is all
of those things depending on the story.

Speaker 1 (01:03:21):
I like that that good answer.

Speaker 2 (01:03:24):
Sometimes her name is capitalized in the Russian, sometimes it isn't,
so sometimes it's just like, you know whatever. And in
some stories she has two sisters. Their names names of
her sisters. I'm gonna give you a chance to guess
the names of.

Speaker 1 (01:03:37):
Her sisters, the names of her sisters.

Speaker 2 (01:03:41):
I'll give you what as a riddle.

Speaker 1 (01:03:46):
Baba and Yaga.

Speaker 2 (01:03:48):
No, it's Babba Yaga and Bobbi Yaga. They all have
the same name.

Speaker 1 (01:03:59):
Have you said Baba yaga? Does it translate to anything
or is it just like.

Speaker 2 (01:04:05):
Yeah, okay, So then this is this cuts into this
cuts into Wednesdays. But actually, like I should have put
this here, so I'm being such a being. So Baba
and Yaga is two different things. Baba is grandma and
then a lot of Slavic languid languages, Baba means grandma.
And that's why like characters are like being like hey, granny, right,

(01:04:26):
and I'll talk about some of the adultmological shit of
that that gets interesting. And then Yaga. People have said,
oh it translates to this or it's etymologically similar to this,
But there's like eighteen different things that people think it's
similar to. As far as I can tell, it's basically
just a proper name in this context, because it's like
some people are like, oh, it comes from serpent, or
it comes from deceiver, or it comes from witch, or

(01:04:48):
it becomes from this, that or the other thing. So
there is like the most common direct translation of Babiyaga's
grandmother Witch, which is also very fitting to how because
you're like, oh, there's a grandmother witch who lives in
the forest, right, m hmm. But yeah. Sometimes she guards
the water of life, which can bring people back from

(01:05:10):
the dead. Sometimes she guards both the waters of life
and death. The water of life brings you back from
the dead, but the water of death reconstitutes your corpse
because it's like the water of corpses. So if you're
like beheaded or whatever, you can't just like sprinkle the
water of life on you, right, or you'll like come
back from the dead and die ruct.

Speaker 1 (01:05:26):
Oh and then you'll you'll just be in extreme pain.

Speaker 2 (01:05:28):
Yeah, yeah, so you need both the waters of life
and death. Sometimes she sucks the life out of women
out by their breasts. There is quite possibly a fair
amount of lesbianism and the older stories that was kind
of left out of the translations into English, and I've
only found references to this in like an academic book

(01:05:49):
that's like, oh, and some of the subtexts of this
was left out of the translations, And I'm like, motherfucker,
give me the subtext. This is all I want.

Speaker 1 (01:05:58):
Yeah, I was like, there's a lot of people out
there who would love to hear a story about a
mysterious woman in the woods sucking the life out of.

Speaker 2 (01:06:05):
Your Tata's totally.

Speaker 1 (01:06:06):
There's maybe just a lot of people who want to
hear that.

Speaker 2 (01:06:08):
Yeah, I think that we could probably make a living
writing those stories. Actually fifty shit in their mind, maybe
better in any of that. Anyway, she has a and
there's actually so Babiyaga is the main name that people
use for now, but she has dozens or hundreds of names.
Like most of the iconic figures out of folklore, she's

(01:06:29):
most known for being Russian, but there's versions of her
found in pretty much every Slavic culture, and echoes of
her can be found throughout the world, and like comparable
figures can be found in cultures around the world. Interesting
and one of the things that's interesting about her. She's
the figure of the witch right, but in most Western
European belief which is are individual mortal women who made
some kind of pact with the devil, Baby Aga is

(01:06:53):
more of a force of nature herself. She doesn't need
the devil. There's one origin for her story for her
that involves the devil. The Devil's like, you know what
I need? I need like a bad bitch. So he
finds twelve of the worst women he could find, and
he throws them into the devil's stewpot, cooks them up
and hails the steam, and then he spits back into

(01:07:13):
the cauldron and out pops Bobby a.

Speaker 3 (01:07:15):
Go.

Speaker 1 (01:07:16):
I hope he at least made like a sexy calendar
with them.

Speaker 2 (01:07:19):
For that's true, is the twelve of.

Speaker 1 (01:07:21):
The worst women in the world. That's a calendar that
would be really appealing to me. Wait, so he boiled
twelve women together, and then the Bobby Aga was the result.

Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
Yeah, boil the women together and hailed the steam of
the boiling women, and then spit and Bobby Agaz that
was created from the spit of the devil. After inhaling
the steam of the twelve the people that he hired
for the calendar.

Speaker 1 (01:07:47):
Wow, that's a very thorough cooking process.

Speaker 2 (01:07:51):
Yeah. I don't think that's where Babiyagah comes from. That's
like one version, right, but it is a little bit
later than Bobby A. Gaza as a specifically constituted mythical character.
And when we come back on Wednesday, we'll talk about
where she comes from as my cliffhanger. But we don't
have to like end it there if you have like

(01:08:11):
my thoughts. But that's what I got for a cliffhanger.

Speaker 1 (01:08:16):
No, I mean, I have a million more questions, but
I feel I feel as if all may be revealed.

Speaker 2 (01:08:23):
It might be, but well, first let's reveal Jamie Loftus
as a person who has stuff to plug.

Speaker 1 (01:08:33):
Yeah, yeah, okay, I'm sorry, I'm like coming down from this,
Bobby go ha. I'm so excited to learn more about her.
I've only heard about her, I think only a name.
So this is thrilling. I guess what I will plug is.
You can follow me on Twitter and Instagram at Jamie
Lofti's help or uh, you can buy my book about

(01:08:57):
Bobby Gau's favorite dish, hot Dogs, my book all about
the history and sort of I can't think of the word.
There's usually a big word I use. It's not coming
right now. It's all about it's everything about dot dogs.
It's called raw Dog. It's anti disestablishmentarians, everyone's go to

(01:09:20):
big word. But yeah, you can buy Raw Dog. You
can pre order it now. It comes out next May.
It would be awesome if you pre ordered it. I
hear that that's supposed to be helpful. Or you can
listen to podcasts including Ghost Church, my scary little podcast

(01:09:41):
on cool Zone Media. You can listen to it right now.

Speaker 2 (01:09:44):
You can yay, Sophie, you have anything to plug.

Speaker 3 (01:09:51):
Listen to Internet Hate Machine, Cool Zone, Indian's newest show
with Bridget Todd. Wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 2 (01:09:57):
Yeah, hell, yes, okay. I'm on the Internet under my name.
If you search me, you'll find me on the Internet
saying I wish I was on the Internet less, and
everyon'll make ha haha, and I'll be like, no, I'm serious,
and then they'll be like it's kind of an asshole.
Thank for you to say, since we're all people who
like being on the Internet, that's something you can do
if you would like. And I will talk at you

(01:10:22):
on Wednesday, good.

Speaker 3 (01:10:26):
Bye Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production
of cool Zone Media. More podcasts on cool Zone Media,
visit our website Coolezonemedia dot com, or check us out
on the irt radio app I'm a Podcast, or wherever
you get your podcasts,