December 25, 2024 • 48 mins
In part two of this week's episode, Margaret continues her conversation with Max Collins of Eve 6 about the squatting, organizing, and robin hood antics of Chumbawamba, the one hit wonders with a thirty year career.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Cool Zone Media.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Hello, and welcome to Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff
rerun edition. That's right, it's the holidays, and that means
that I am going to run reruns. And I thought,
what's better to get us in the holiday spirit than
that holiday band. I've decided their holiday band the history
of everyone's favorite an arcopop band, Chumbawamba. It's probably not
(00:27):
a Christmas band. In fact, they might be annoyed if
I call them that. Well, it's too bad because it's
my podcast and this is a history of Chumbawamba. We'll
be back next week with a non rerun whatever you
call it, a run, a regular run. Anyway, here it.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Is Welcome to Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff with
Margarete Kiljoy, a podcast that's about cool people who did
cool stuff. Our guest today is Max Collins. Max, how
are you doing? You want to well about yourself at all?
What's going on?
Speaker 3 (01:05):
I'm doing great.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
Thank you, it's good to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
I was going to say on this day. That is
definitely a different day. I think everything this podcast knows
that we record it and two takes or.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Good.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Yeah, so so Max Collins our guest in the nineties,
he actually did an anthropological field study on one hit
wonders in the rock world.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
That's right, everything Margaret, you're saying right now is absolutely, unequivocally,
verifiably true.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Yeah, exactly, Yeah. Yeah. So today we're talking about one
hit wonder Chumbawamba, And if you haven't listened to part one,
what the fuck is wrong with you? Did something go
wrong with your life? Why do you make the choices
that you make? So go listen to that. Okay, So
around the early nineties, life starts changing for Chumbawamba. It
(01:53):
stays a galitarian, but it goes from this like loose
chaotic thing into something more like a worker's cooperative. They
start having tons of meetings. By one account, they spend
more times in meetings than in practice. There's like eight
or nine of them at this point, and most of
them move out of the squat but stay in the
band and stay activists, and they just want to do
other things with their lives and more and more. They're
also like having families and shit, right, and sometimes maybe
(02:17):
obviously some of them are having kids in the squad,
but I could imagine not being like this is where
I want to raise my children. I don't know, whatever,
and One of the cooler things about them is as
they start doing this, they don't go off vh ones
behind the music, like they keep not exploding. Some of
them did drugs, some of them were sober. They date
within the band, They get one of them dumps one
(02:40):
of them to go date the other bandmate, and everyone
stays good with each other more or less. Like I
don't know, they I feel like they kind of like
did hedonism right at least as its presented. And they're
self mythologizing, right, yeah, parties and raves and shows and everything,
but they're they're not doing the like trash the hotel room,
draw penises, a sexually assault fans thing.
Speaker 4 (03:01):
Right and so.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
And they're basically at this point trying to make it
as no longer young musicians. They're trying to be like
this is. So they sit down and they have a
what the fuck are we doing meeting, like a conversation
ten years into the band, and they're like, all right,
let's fucking do this thing, like let's double or nothing,
let's you know. They they quit their jobs to do
it full time, which means that they needed to pay
(03:25):
their employees, which was themselves and also other people were
helping them out, and so commercial considerations start having to
be balanced alongside musical and political considerations as they make
this music. And in nineteen ninety four they release Anarchy
as the name of an album and the cover of
which features the photo of a child being born, which
is from a book for children about where babies came from.
(03:48):
But this is obviously like their whole point is like,
you're all going to call this pornographic, aren't you, And
it did. It's called pornographic. Stores refuse to sell it.
They keep it in brown bags because you can see
a vagina in it or whatever. It's my favorite of
their albums, and it's the first time that they crack
the very bottom of the mainstream charts, and it has
(04:09):
the song if you haven't if you've never listened to
a Chumbawamba song besides tumb pumping, or even if you
haven't heard that, go listen to Homophobia by Chumbawombam. So
they start getting to play larger and larger shows right
as they start taking this band really seriously. Ten years in,
they tour more of the world, and the press fucking
hates them. They're like, you're washed up, bad musicians. You're
(04:33):
all too old. You scream about politics, but you don't
even believe any of it. You're or like they're all
like you're too woke, you're ruining the music whatever. And
the fans love them. They sell out shows left and right,
and the press goes between ignoring them and hating them,
which is like, this is just like literally how to
succeed as a cult band, that really is. And in
(04:55):
nineteen ninety six, they're not super famous yet, they're not
tub thumping famous yet, but they're sharing a stage of
Smashing Pumpkins in Germany at some big televised event, and
Smashing Pumpkins is apparently being real assholes about it, at
least as related in bof Whaley's book. And so they,
like all the other bands, have to like hide in
their dressing rooms with the doors closed and they can't
(05:16):
be in the corridors when Billy Corgan comes through or something.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
And this is still pretty tough something. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Yeah, So they're like not seeing as Smashing Pumpkins as
peer yet, but they're big enough to be at this
televised event. And so Dan one of the people in
Tumble one, but he likes being naked, like constantly. He's
stripping on stage for the fuck of it, and the
band is like, Ock, what are we going to do
to prank these assholes? That's like what we got to do.
That's our thing, you know, I know, Dan, take off
(05:44):
all your clothes. So Dan gets naked. They write that
word punk and huge letters across his chest. He strolls
out on stage just as Smashing Pumpkins's their big finale.
You know, he walks up to Billy and he salutes
the crowd naked, and then he walks off and yes,
the band has to physically rescue him from bouncers and
that they fled the scene as like they're being chased,
(06:06):
and the promoter is like, you'll never appear on German
television again, which probably didn't turn out to be true.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
Incredible, and yeah, I know, I love it.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
I love it. Also, in nineteen ninety six, they turn
in an album called tub Thumping into their label, which
is a label called One Little Indian, which was not
a great name for a label, and just to be clear,
the label realized that and in twenty twenty they changed
their name to One Little Independent. In nineteen ninety six,
Chumbawamba turns in this album to them, and the label's like, no,
(06:38):
this sucks, go home and write better songs. No good onward.
And then EMI Germany, a major label, was like, well,
we'll give you one hundred thousand fake europe money for it,
maybe pounds, maybe euros, I don't know, one of the
fake moneys that they have over there. And at first
they laugh it off, right, They're like, no way, well
we do that obviously, and then they kind of sit
(07:01):
on it and they're like, we're so fucking broke, and
that is enough money that even if the album doesn't
sell at all, we can still pay everyone involved a
decent wage, you know. They To be clear, Chumbawamba had
put a song out on an anti EMI compilation about
ten years earlier. The compilations called fuck EMI. At the time,
(07:22):
I was deep in the nuclear arms industry. EMI had
since divested from that. But still it wasn't It clearly
wasn't good optics, and they weren't sure, but they I
think what happened is that they they were sure it
wasn't good optics to the punk scene. What they were
trying to figure out was whether or not it was
good ethics, and they wanted to make their decision based
on that. So they talk it over as a collective
(07:43):
like they do everything. They don't vote about major decisions.
They work for consensus, and they talk it over for weeks.
They are like, look, symbolism is bad, but change for
change's sake is sometimes good. They were stagnating, and they
were like, fuck stagnating, that's what we don't want to do.
It's more of a chance to reach more people. Saying
fuck you to a scene that was getting way too
(08:04):
essentially conservative from their point of view, seemed fun to them.
Being able to pay themselves enough to not worry for
a while. Like they're all working class folks, right, and
they're prosing middle aged without much of a safety net
because they all were squad or punks, and and they're
like bands like Fugazi can get away with being fiercely
independent because they're just big enough and sell enough records, right,
(08:25):
Chumbawamba wasn't selling that kind of those kinds of numbers.
And but fear of what people would think was a
big part of it. A few years earlier, in Poland,
some American punk had taken it upon himself to like
slash their tour van tires because he was mad about
how much the band was charging for the show. Punks
can be sort of myopic, Yeah, yeah, and one of
(08:49):
the one of the things that they thought about a lot,
you know. The most convincing argument to some of them,
and I actually think maybe the most convincing argument to
me is they're like, look, our independent labels are also
just all about the money. They are also fucking us over.
They're also greedy, we might as well get paid well.
Alice Nutter puts it in an interview with a punk
(09:11):
magazine later. My reasoning for doing it isn't how we're
going to get our message across to more people. It's
nothing to do with that. It's because my experiences with
one little Indian in the music industry have me convinced
that they're all the fucking same. They're small businessmen and
big businessmen, and they have a different agenda to us.
There's no good or bad capitalism is kind of what
(09:32):
they hit upon. Yeah, they do it, and which brings
us to probably the only song by them that most
of the people listening to this podcast have actually heard.
It'sub thumping about falling down and standing up and about drinking.
I literally don't know. I didn't actually ask Sophie what
I'm allowed to do in terms of quoting song lyrics,
so that's why keep tee speaking about it very vaguely.
(09:52):
Sophie says, yes, I can claim that I wrote the
song and that it is legally my property. That is
what Sophie is nod in and saying yes right now.
So I wrote the song tub Thumping, and when I did? Okay, so,
but I'm going to quote both whiley about this song.
Tub Thumping, from his very outset as an idea, was
definitely populist and based on working class experience. That's working class,
(10:14):
not just as a mythic Trotskyist vision, but as a
cultural and historic whole, which includes family and sport and
community and war and love and entertainment, not just the cliched,
clenched fist getting up, but the getting knocked down as well.
Tub Thumping became known to some purely as a drinking song,
which is fair enough because of nothing else. It didn't
(10:35):
belong to an elite group of musicians. It belonged to people.
People at football matches, people singing along to the radio
as they drove, people at parties, drinking too much whiskey
and tripping over the kitchen chairs people like me, and
because it helped beggar the notion that Chumbo Wamba were
boring zealots from planet Anarchy, And that's not what I
realized when I heard it when I was in the
(10:56):
nineties and like driving around and like, but.
Speaker 5 (10:59):
I think it's cool to They don't try to shew
that interpretation, because yeah, it is a drinking song, you know,
it's but it works on a couple different levels. But
it is a drinking song insofar as like you know,
you're drinking with your mates, and there's community there, and
(11:20):
there's solidarity there, and and there's you know, commiseration for
the getting knocked down, you know, parts of life.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
There, which is punk as fuck. It is punk as fucked,
like put your arms around all your friends and drunkenly
sing songs like whatever. The song you know, like yeah,
like yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
It's collective, it's it's yeah, it's kind of a spiritual experience, you.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Know, yeah, totally, and it's one that we have like
increasingly stripped away from us by by modern life. And
apparently one of the main inspirations of the song was
watching a drunk Irish guy stumbling home from a bar
singing Danny Boy and being told to shut up by
a neighbor. So and the song goes fucking huge. And again,
if you were live in the nineties, you probably remember this.
(12:10):
It's number two in the UK, it's number six in
the US, It's in the charts everywhere in the world.
It gets ranked on lists of like the twenty most
annoying songs of all time.
Speaker 5 (12:20):
Yeah, I mean there's a distinction to be made there
between between like a hit song and like a global smash.
Speaker 4 (12:29):
Like that song was.
Speaker 5 (12:32):
Like, you know, number one on alternative rock radio or whatever,
but also pop radio and also not just in the US,
but like, yeah, you know everywhere. It was just one
of those, you know, hyper ubiquitous songs that you could
not escape no matter where you were, no matter what
(12:53):
your where, your tastes, what genres your tastes went to,
or whatever.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Yeah, because it's also kind of a genre list song,
Like on its face, you know, it has like I
think electronic drums and just this catchy singalong chorus and
like it's just and it's like, yeah, it's almost like
like a collective delusion, you know, this thing that just
like absorbed everyone for a moment, you know, and yeah,
(13:23):
I don't know, it's fucking interesting.
Speaker 6 (13:25):
It's like, in a way, it's like it it was.
It was a troll sort of, but it also wasn't
a cynical one. They were Yeah, they weren't looking down
on the people enjoying it. Yeah, for whatever surface reasons.
There was no contempt there. Yeah, but it was this
thing that functioned on a couple different levels.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Yeah. Yeah, it's so fucking like, it's just brilliant. It's
such a it's yeah, it's a prank, but it's not
a prank, you know. It's this earnest thing they did
that got injected into pop culture and don't it's fucking
and a lot of their old fans write them letters
calling them sellouts. But the people who really led the
(14:09):
charge of calling them hypocrites were the same music journalists
who had always hated them because they're like, ah see,
we told you their politics didn't mean anything, which was
their way of basically excusing themselves for never having had
decent politics in the first Yeah.
Speaker 5 (14:21):
Which is a really dubious way to sort of yeah,
you know, truffle Hunt for what seems like hypocrisy, but
if you scratch the surface at all, you realize really isn't.
It's a collective who wants to be able to take
care of their own and, as we'll find soon enough
(14:42):
in the story, take care of others as well, and
do that by siphoning corporate bunny and yeah, like you know,
doing Robin hood shit.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Really yeah, totally totally. And it's funny is to look
at like if I had been I, you know, I
was a a salty subcultural but not like a punk
yet right at the time of all of this, if
I had been, like if it had happened in two
thousand and three, I probably would have been one of
the people being like, h you fucking sellouts, right, But
I'm glad that I don't, you know, like twenty one
(15:16):
year old me is not who I look back to
about what decisions were best to make for my life.
You know. No, I'm stuck with some of the tattoos.
But that's okay too.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
So they spend two years, the next two years in
this whirlwind of fame. It doesn't stop them from being themselves.
And first and foremost, they give away just a fuck
ton of money, since since all the money gets split equally.
They didn't like fuss about who deserves what amount and
stuff like that. You know, there were the people who
are the lead singers of the songs whatever, but they're like,
(15:46):
we're just split it in and evenly. We'll work from there.
And they peer pressure each other out of like running
out and buying Jaguars. Boff notes that Dan went out
and bought a really fancy vacuum cleaner, which I must
be what middle age anarchists do. And they suddenly have
a lot of money. You know, nice vacuum cleaner. It's
a very nice thing. And they I get the impression
that they hold onto enough money to not have to
(16:08):
worry about being poor. But they donate money to artists,
women's groups, prisoner defense campaigns, kids football teams, radical media projects, venues,
solidarity groups, individual organizers, community groups, magazines, direct action groups,
and social centers. At one point in two thousand and two,
GM wanted a song for a commercial. Yeah, Jumble Womba
(16:30):
said yes, and they take it. Took one hundred thousand
dollars or different accounts give different amounts, but a large
number of money, high money number one hundred thousand will
go with that, and they just turn around and they
give half of it to indie Media, which is this
big decentralized ub the media network, and they give which
is unfortunately kind of probably what prefigured Twitter and to
(16:52):
rest of the nightmare we live now, but it was
a good idea at the time. And they give the
other half to a project called corp Watch that is
specifically tracking GM, like exposing their crimes. And so they
just turn around and give fifty thousand dollars to people
who are like specifically attacking GM. Yeah, and so if
the two main arguments that they have in favor of
selling out are reach a wider audience and get fuck
(17:13):
tons of money, they do both. But I actually I
think Alice Nutter was right in some ways. The fuck
tons of money, which seems less the radical goal, is
actually in some ways the more radical thing they did
because the wider audience didn't necessarily like get it right.
They talk about anarchism on news shows, they mostly get
made fun of. They sell their music to a ton
(17:35):
of places, but they turned down other places too. They
turned down Nike, who offered them a million and a
half bucks. Their rules were really simple and strict. They
wouldn't sell their music to anyone involved in sweatshop labor
or the arms industry. And when I first started researching
this episode, I thought it was going to be mostly
about their high jinks during the fame period, because they
did really good hijinks. But in the end, I you
(17:57):
know the reason. The first half is more about the
working clas punks in a squat breaking laws is like
what I kind of lingered on. But let's talk about
the hijinks one time. In nineteen ninety seven, in the
Top Thumping era, Dan gets arrested in Italy literally for
just walking down the street wearing a skirt, and he's
held in his cell. He has a show that night.
He gets held in a cell with no one speaking
(18:17):
to him in English, and finally he scrawls I'm in
a pop group called Chumbo Wumba on a piece of
paper and helds it up to the glass of the
cell and they release him and he gets in time
to go to the sound check. The next day, he
appears on Italian TV in the Skirt and says Italy
has some problems with homophobic, macho cop culture. Alice Nutter
(18:42):
steps up as being the kind of unofficial spokesperson for
the band. I think mostly because she enjoyed talking the
most and had the most to say. She was also
maybe the most firebrand of them. In nineteen ninety seven,
she told the UK Press, nothing can change the fact
that we like it when cops get killed. Emi is like,
(19:03):
oh my god, please apologize. What the fuck? Oh my god?
She didn't apologize and such. She clarified her statement. If
you're working class, they won't protect you. When you hear
about them, it's in the context of them abusing people,
you know, miscarriages of justice. We don't have a party
when cops die, you know, we don't. But before we
hear about more of Alice Nutter's anti capitalist hijinks. Ooh,
(19:28):
we have some capitalist hijinks for you in the form
of products and services. Okay, and we are back in
January nineteen ninety eight, Alice Nutter, she goes on the
talk show Politically Incorrect, and she says, basically, yeah, if
(19:51):
you can't afford our music, just go to the nearest big, evil,
giant chain store like Virgin and steal it. And Virgin
didn't like this. Chumbawamba at the time is Universal's number
one selling band, and here's the band saying, just steal it.
Who fucking cares? As long as you steal it from
a large corporation. Virgin threatens to remove the album from
(20:12):
their stores, and it depends on what account you read.
They either stopped carrying it entirely or hit it behind
the counter.
Speaker 7 (20:18):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
And this only makes sales go up, which doesn't fucking
surprise me, right, Like I could have told them that, like, yeah,
more will get stolen. But if people steal the CDs,
people are going to listen to it and talk about it,
and more people are going to go out and fucking
buy it, right.
Speaker 5 (20:33):
And and if you're taking it off the shelves or
hiding it, you're literally manufacturing scarcity for the thing, and
by making it more valuable.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Yeah, yeah, so everyone wants to go out and find
it and get it. Yeah. So anyway, they're contact at
Universal called the band and was like, well, you all
just laugh at me if I tell you that Universal
wants to ask you to apologize for saying all that,
Like they're rep knows it's a like fool's errand that
he's been tasked to call them and ask them to apologize.
He's like, y'all aren't going to do this, are you?
(21:05):
And they're like ha ha Nope. And later Alice Nutters
in a recollection says, why should I apologize? I wasn't sorry,
which is exactly how you should or shouldn't apologize when
you make decisions about apologies. So and on the The
David Letterman Show, they changed the lyrics of tub thumping
(21:26):
to include from free Mumiya bou Jamal and Mamiya bu
Jamal for anyone who's not aware. As a black political
prisoner who was probably framed up on the murder of
a cop in Philly and at the very least definitely
had an unfair trial, he spent a couple decades on
death row, which was reduced to Life without Pearl in
two thousand and one. So Chumbawamba goes on Letterman and
sings free Mumiya bou Jamal, and it was pre recorded,
(21:48):
so Letterman let it happen. In the end, basically they
like sat down, Like The Letterman Show, people were like, fuck,
are we gonna let this fucking happen? And finally the
network is like, all right, fuck it. They run it
and they talk about anarchism with Barbara Walters. They basically
leave a trail of chaos that the record labels are
running around trying to clean up for them. But instead
(22:10):
of trash hotel rooms, it was just weird shit, you know.
And the peak of all this was the nineteen ninety
eight brit Awards, which I think are the Grammys for
people stuck on a tiny island without sunshine. My theory
is that they actually named the country after the award show.
It was called brit Land, but then with the accent,
(22:30):
sound like Britain, and so that's what's stuck.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
That's my thavorite sounds true to me.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Yeah, So I wonder how long I'm gonna get away
with this bit so Jumbawamba. They get invited to the
nineteen ninety eight brit Awards. They're even up for an
award themselves Best Single, and they're going to perform. At first,
they weren't going to perform, but the director he knows
their fucking number, and he's like, all right, you don't
(22:57):
want to perform, We'll let you have a video behind you.
And they're like, yeah, okay, we're in. We can show propaganda.
We are in. And the day of the director of
the wards. He goes up to chumble One personally with
a plea and he's like, hey, could you could you
not physically attack any of the other artists, And that's
(23:17):
his big request to them. Tumbawamba is like, all right, fine, whatever,
we won't attack any of the other artists physically, and
they even technically stuck with that. They they're not super
stoked about it, though, and everyone else is pissing them
off with all being off pop star and shit. And
I have a feeling that every like band that's played
(23:38):
at this level kind of like vaguely enjoys talking about bands.
But you know, they point out this in the book
that like half of Fleetwood Mac refuses to use their
dressing room because of inadequate carpeting. And I don't know
shit about Fleetwood Mac, and I'm taking both Whaley's word
for it. Maybe inadequate carpeting was like maybe like the
whole thing was like this like sewage swamp. I don't
fucking know, you.
Speaker 4 (23:59):
Know, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
But it's easier to imagine, like, ah, those damn rock stars,
said the one rock star to that. Anyway, whatever, it's
more fun to imagine too, Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So they
go up and play and they're all wearing sweatshirts that
say things like sold out or whatever, and they put
on a film behind them and it's full of people
rioting and protesting, and there's act up banners and there's
(24:22):
the stages streaming with red and black banners, and it's like,
it's exactly what I would do if I was up
for one of these aworts. And it's not even not
necessarily in an original way, but just it's it's like
you kind of have to if you're that band, you know.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
And at the time, dockers in Liverpool had been on
strike and it was one of the longest labor disputes
in British history, and the dockers had mostly lost. They
had been forced into a settlement package and they all
lost their jobs. And the Labor Party was currently branding
itself as New Labor and they were culpable for a
lot of that. So Chumbawamba changed the course of tub
(24:59):
Thump to include new Labors sold out the dockers, just
like they'll sell out the rest of us. And they
even brought some dockers with them to the ceremony. With
the plan that if they win, the doctors would go
up and accept on their behalf and give a speech
about what was going on. But Chaumbowama didn't win, so
they didn't get to do the Doctors accept thing. But
(25:21):
after they get off stage, they're like, oh shit, that's
John Prescott and he's the Deputy Prime Minister, which is
roughly the equivalent of vice president, and he's from the
working class. He used to be a member of the
same union as the Dockers, but he basically sold them out.
He was blocking tuition bills, he was fucking over the unemployed.
He was just doing all kinds of shit, right, And
(25:44):
so they're sitting around and they're like, what the fuck
are we going to do. There's the vice president of Britain,
which definitely has a vice president, and they they look
at the bin that had been full of all the
ice for the champagne and all of that, and they're like, Dan, Alice,
you got this and Dan and Alice are like, yes,
we do indeed have it. So they go up to Prescott.
(26:05):
Dan jumps on the table says this is for the
Liverpool Dockers and dumps a bucket of ice water on
John Prescott's head. Not to be outdone, Nutter is right
there behind him with I think an extra bucket of
water and also just soaks him with that as well,
and this is like on okay, So so Dan gets
arrested and Prescott has to be a good sport about
(26:26):
it because he's like trying to look cool with the
kids he's here at the brit Awards or whatever. It's
really hard to imagine a US politician being this cool
about especially a vice president. I'm like, I'm struggling to
imagine the punk band that can dump ice water on
the vice president of the United States and survive, you know.
Speaker 5 (26:42):
Yeah, yeah, I mean we saw the way was it Giuliani?
Who there was that video of a guy who kind
of like lightly like oh yeah, pat on the back
and then talks some shit yeah, and he acted like
it was a saul and.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Yeah yeah yeah. But however, they managed to dump ice
water on the fucking deputy prime minister's head, and the
deputy Prime Minister of Prescott is like, all right, I'm
not pressing charges, and so they get let go and
the tabloids eat the whole thing up, and of course
the usual snotty critics get mad and oh and then
(27:22):
Ginger Spice from The Spice Girls goes up to Prescott
to make sure he's okay. They made sure to include
that part in the in their biography or that's really funny,
and Alice Nutter later, I think it's talking about the
entire like arc of Chumbawamba, and it's like it was
all worth it just to be able to get at
John Prescott, just to get at these people who think
(27:43):
they're untouchable. And that's the thing that's kind of interesting
to me about like like people used to pie politicians
more often, it feels like, and it seems like the
point of that is just to say, like, hey, remember
you're a person. Yeah, you know, like this have been worse,
is what you're saying when you dump ice water on
someone's head. You know.
Speaker 4 (28:04):
Yeah, you're a person who's supposed to be accountable to us.
Speaker 5 (28:10):
Yeah, and you clearly aren't. And you enjoy this sort
of like protected celebrity status, you know.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Yeah totally And so okay. So they spent about two
years on the road doing the celebrity thing, and then
they take a break and they resume other parts of
their lives, figuring out their next move, and then they
put out a second album with EMI, which is a
bit confusing because then they're mythologizing. I've read some of
their accounts that are like, em I wanted to put
(28:39):
out another album, but we said no. But I think
they did put out another album with EMI. Either way,
either em I dumps them or they dump EMI and or.
Speaker 5 (28:50):
Yeah, EMI could have done something where if they were
under contract for another record or something but didn't want
to deliver it where they either. I mean, we had
our record label do that with us, where they put
out I don't know if it was like live stuff
for you know.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Oh interesting because you owed them an album but they
didn't like the way they turned in.
Speaker 5 (29:13):
Yeah, yeah, that kind of thing for us. I don't
remember exactly what the circumstances were, but I could see
it being something like that where they basically manufactured some
kind of release out of B sides or whatever.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
You know. Yeah, are you still they technically owned? I
think you're not still with a major label. Is that correct?
Speaker 4 (29:35):
That's correct?
Speaker 5 (29:35):
Yeah, we got dropped from RCA and like two thousand
and three, and we put records out now with an
indie label.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Called Velocity okay, which always seemed like kind of a
cool like after this, and I'll get to it in
a moment, like Chumbawamba kind of like goes from major
label back to indie. They go from indy to major
to indie, right, and they're like all right, And it's
kind of interesting to me to see that as a well,
you just do what's best in the situation, rather than like,
(30:04):
oh no, you're a failure because the major label dropped you,
or oh no, you're a sellout because you know you
went to a major label at all.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
I don't know, yeah, yeah, I mean sort of like.
Speaker 5 (30:19):
Judging or making the metric of like what is worthwhile
about making rock by what type of record label you're
on or whatever, ain't really.
Speaker 4 (30:34):
Where it's at.
Speaker 5 (30:35):
I can also see how, you know, perception is created
by like by that kind of story, Like you know,
it did feel embarrassing to get dropped from a major
label for all of those reasons, but then you sort
of realize.
Speaker 4 (30:53):
Like why why do you feel that way?
Speaker 1 (30:57):
Right?
Speaker 5 (30:58):
And you know this, the reasons for it are pretty
dubious once you examine them a little bit, like what
what do you what are you making stuff for? Anyway,
is it too, you know, appease, you know, the bean
counters or whatever because you like like to like to
(31:21):
make rock because it makes you feel free or whatever.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Yeah, and like connecting to people like you connect with
people different ways depending on what means by which you
access them, and doesn't make it better or worse, like yep, no,
it's interesting. Yeah, it must have been. You have not
been in that position, but it must have been like, oh,
we've we've hit our crest and now we are coming
down from it, as compared to like, well, no, you
(31:45):
got this like boost of attention and now you're able
to do things with that, you know.
Speaker 4 (31:51):
Yeah, totally.
Speaker 5 (31:52):
It's all in how you sort of frame your perspective
toward it. Yeah, Like I mean, in our case, we
did need to like break up for a host of reasons,
and we did for a few years, and only recently,
in the last couple of years have we started doing
this new iteration of the band that, like I said,
(32:14):
is sort of in practice a side project, but we
just still call it Eve six. But yeah, you know,
we're doing it for for the right reasons. And I
think a band like Trumbawamba was always doing it for
the right reasons.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
You know, yeah, yeah, And you know who else is
doing it for the right reasons. It's it's it's the Advertiser.
We're actually sponsored by this new this new act on
our ca clup Eve seven new band. It's very original.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
Okay, this is interesting. I hadn't I hadn't heard of this,
hadn't heard of this group.
Speaker 5 (32:55):
But my first reaction is, I don't know if this
town is big enough for two of us.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
Well, they've got this hit, and you know it's the
first Advertisers is going to be this hit. It's called what.
Speaker 4 (33:07):
Kind of prepositions are they working with?
Speaker 2 (33:09):
You? Put a blender in my heart? I believe?
Speaker 7 (33:11):
Is that?
Speaker 4 (33:11):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (33:12):
Okay, it's funny because five Seconds of Summer apparently just
released a song called Blender or like emotional Blender or
something like that.
Speaker 4 (33:22):
I haven't listened to it yet, but.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
Yeah, town's only big enough for one blender song.
Speaker 4 (33:26):
That's right? Yeah, stay away from our kitchen appliance.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
That is the official motto of cool Zone Media.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
Is that?
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Is that correct? Sophie is nodding?
Speaker 4 (33:36):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (33:36):
Sometimes I just say Sophie's nodding when Sophie's actually holding
up a sign that says stop doing this, you're going
to get us in trouble. But Sophie's not in this case.
She was nodding, yeah, yeah, totally. And here's some other
products and services including Eve six, I mean sorry, seven, eight,
and nine, and we are back. Okay, so up, and
(34:00):
we were talking about the the at this point, you know,
Chumbawamba is in there. Uh, they've taken a break from
the celebrity thing. Then they then they come back at
making music and they keep at it for another fifteen years.
Tom Pumping is right in the middle of the career
of Chumbawamba as a band. They start their own label,
they work with a bunch of different indies, and they
put out a ton of music and they continue to
(34:23):
accidentally show up at the craziest riots in history. Wow,
what a weird coincidence. And I actually this part actually
caught me by surprise because I had kind of assumed that,
like they're in their forties, I think at this point,
and like they're doing all right, and they're still just like, oh,
there's this riot. I mean, actually it's an accident. There's
just accidentally in all these things. And I really I
(34:44):
really appreciate about that they're bad timing where they keep
showing it for these things and so, and they also
fund a bunch of direct actions, which I think there's
still I don't want to conjecture too hard about the
things that they fund. And a bunch of them leave
the band and in two thousand and four, And I
spent a while trying to be like, what did they
leave the band about? Right? But then I realized that
(35:05):
none of them were trying to talk about it. There
was a little bit of like personal and political differences,
and they leave it at that, right, And.
Speaker 4 (35:13):
And that's cool.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
It's cool that I don't know because they're just like,
their whole thing seems to be like, how do we
come close to this environment that could have made us
douchebag rock stars without And so they're just like they
just worked through it, at least somewhat privately, right.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (35:31):
It sounds like they have loyalty to one another and like, yeah,
actual friendship.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
Yeah yeah. And it's almost like they, you know, repaired
a house together for ten years before they went on
any of this crazy shit, you know. And and even
the people who left in two thousand and four came
back for their twenty twelve Fuck It Were Done Tour.
I don't think that was the actual name of it,
but it might as well have been their fuck it, We're
Done tour, because they basically were like, fuck it, We're done,
and then they had a tour. And they still contribute
(35:58):
to each other's art to this day. They like a
bunch of them make movies and theater and music, and
you know, Baff writes books about running, Alice writes for TV.
Bruce is working on a documentary about Chumbawamba that's currently
on the the circuit where you're not allowed to watch
it unless you have a.
Speaker 4 (36:19):
Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
Right when they broke up, they put out a statement.
I'm a quote from it because I think they do
a good, pretty good job of summing up what they
were doing. Chumbowomba was our vehicle for pointing at the
naked emperors, for telling our version of the truth. It
gave us more than the joy and love of playing live,
writing songs and singing together. It gave us a chance
(36:42):
to be part of a broad coalition of activists and hectors,
optimists and questioners. But eventually the rest of our lives
got in the way and we couldn't commit the time
and enthusiasm that the band demanded, couldn't keep up with
whatever responsibilities came with a band like this. If there
were ever a Chumbawamba manifesto, it would and the inconsistent,
contradictory language of the dataists part strident belligerence and part foolishness.
(37:06):
This ending is no different. It comes almost as much
of a surprise to us as it may do to you.
Always more clown than politician, the band trips over its
outsized feet and performs its final tumble. There have been
squabbles and arguments along the way, a deal of griping, frustration, moaning, exasperation,
but always alongside a huge amount of good will and generosity,
(37:28):
good humor and love. What a riot it's been, frankly,
and now it's time to clear up the mess and
move on. And Dan, I'm gonna read one more quote
about from one of them about this, Dan in an
interview with band Camp in twenty twenty two. This year,
I guess I can just say this year, if I'm
talking about the year I'm in, I'm very proud of
what we did. The whole way through. We tried to
(37:50):
push the envelope. We weren't always successful, but we always tried,
and that's probably a defining characteristic of Chumba Womba. Whatever
era or genre we tried, it always had a working
class basis, which is a whole other story. When we
signed with the major labels in the mainstream, it didn't
destroy us. You could accuse us of selling out, but
we weren't bought up, and I think that's a testament
(38:12):
to the way we had each other's backs. The mainstream
usually swallows people and spits them out. I mean it
did split us out, but we took it as a compliment.
Speaker 4 (38:21):
Really there you go.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Yeah, it's like what you were saying about, Like it
is just how you fucking look at it, you know.
Speaker 8 (38:28):
Yep, they're like prose or you know, I don't know
if that last quotation was what you know, said to
a reporter or something like that.
Speaker 5 (38:40):
But it's so beautiful and it's like better than their lyrics,
I know, their own sort of like yeah, assessment of
their story is is really deep and just like so
on point and includes.
Speaker 7 (39:00):
All of the admittedly seemingly contradictory things that made made
up Shambawamba, this thing that was you know, on one level,
just like a vessel for entertainment and diversion, and on another,
you know, straight up you know activism.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Yeah. Yeah, And it's interesting because I was thinking about
this as I was writing this out. I was like,
you know, I'm not really talking about their music, right,
and like their songs, and I'm not talking about like
their instrumentation and like and all that stuff really matters,
And it clearly mattered to them because the whole time
they're always like, oh yeah, we don't have to play
our instruments. They are like musically really talented to the
point where it's like sort of almost annoying. Like their
(39:44):
a cappella album, I'm like, you all wrote these amazing
like multiple harmonies and like all this crazy shit, you know,
and it's about all of these things at once. It's
one of the things I've had.
Speaker 5 (39:55):
Yeah, the music is an aspect of this thing that
as a whole is like yeah activist performance art. Yeah, yeah,
is really inspiring.
Speaker 4 (40:09):
You know.
Speaker 5 (40:10):
I mean, they they they they they did buck the system,
as as he put like, yeah, maybe they they sold.
Speaker 4 (40:19):
Out, but they didn't. What's the language he used, it.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
Spits them out? Oh right, But.
Speaker 4 (40:26):
Maybe but they weren't bought up. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's
really cool.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
Yeah yeah that it is really like this is funny
because it's like, I know, you're in a band and
I'm in a band, and I'm like, doesn't it make
you want to start a band or like makes you
want to like be in a band, you know, like yeah, yeah,
I'm writing right now. I've been in a bunch of
bands that have done various things, and right now I
like signed to my first indie label with my metal
band Cool and we have an album do soon, right
(40:52):
and it's our It'll be our second full length of
the band. And I'm like, oh, I should really care
about that, you know, in a way where I'm like,
I care about it and I've been working with this
band for years, but I'm like, I don't know it. No,
it's inspiring, yeah it it uh, you know, trains your
your eyes back on like what's important? Fun, joyful?
Speaker 5 (41:15):
Yeah about about a project and you know, exposes all
the things that aren't, all the metrics that are seemingly
important and that matter, and all of that shit which.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
Don't ultimately yeah yeah, and the way in which they
matter is the vehicle with which to do it, like
the thing that, you know, getting the money to make
the music allows them to make the music. That is
the the part of that that matters, you know. It's
just the ability to continue to allow to continue to happen, Right,
That's the end.
Speaker 5 (41:49):
It's not it's not you know, to make yourself obscenely
wealthy or you know, fame or whatever whatever else. It's like,
how that in their case, how that served their project.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
Yeah, totally, and both as individuals and as activists and
as artists, like the music that they make, how it
matters for its own sake and.
Speaker 4 (42:14):
Like mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (42:15):
And so they actually they released one album after they
broke up, because the very last release came in twenty thirteen,
the year after they broke up, and because in two
thousand and five they recorded an EP called in Memoria
Margaret Thatcher, and they were like, this would be released
when Margaret Thatcher dies, And so in twenty thirteen, Margaret
(42:38):
Thatcher did that did the world that that favor and
went ahead and died, and the EP came out along
with a statement, our deepest sympathies go out to the
families of all Margaret Thatcher's victims and it's a very
happy little album.
Speaker 4 (42:51):
It's amazing.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
Yeah, and so okay, so this is and so thanks
for coming along with my episode that I totally didn't
write in order to get myself off the hook for
taking corporate money Giant Faceless Corporation to run a podcast
about radical history. Now you all know my secret reason
we're telling you about Umble them. But but I I look,
I think the analogy works.
Speaker 5 (43:11):
Yeah, you know, yeah, I think I think they might
you know, tip their their bowlers.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
I hope. So if you're listening Jumble one. But yeah,
all right, well well uh yeah, what what can people
you say? You're in a band? What what is that band?
What do you you're the the band that ripped off
Eve seven?
Speaker 5 (43:33):
I think, right, yeah, Look, there's there's a bunch of
you know, vicious like rumors going out going around that
I have no footpold in the truth. Eve six came
before Eve seven, and Eve seven has been like, you know,
(43:54):
biting our vibe, you know, agreed egregiously and and and
you know, anyone who's got.
Speaker 4 (44:02):
Their ear to the ground Margaret has.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
Heard of Eve six, this quiet band that yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, okay,
And it does chronologically, six does come before you?
Speaker 4 (44:14):
Could you could use that that six comes before seven?
Speaker 2 (44:17):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I actually here it's afraid of
seven because seven eight.
Speaker 4 (44:22):
Nine, that's right. See, And that's that too, is true.
Speaker 2 (44:28):
That was despicable.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
If the lizards could only see how happy she was
while making that terrible joke, they would.
Speaker 5 (44:41):
Be they would be truly dismayed.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
Yeah, truly the worst. I lost all of my my
goth points went out the river river.
Speaker 4 (44:51):
Yeah, down the river.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (44:56):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
Well yeah, so so what a what do you have
going on? You play or like, how can people check
it out? Maybe you have a new album out coming out?
Maybe it's even out by the time people listen, because
this will come out about a month after we record it.
Speaker 4 (45:08):
Yeah it might be.
Speaker 5 (45:09):
I have I have no idea when our album comes out,
but I know it comes out in like a few weeks.
Speaker 4 (45:14):
I think I should know this.
Speaker 5 (45:16):
But it's called hyper relevisation. If you follow us on
Twitter at Eve six, you'll you'll hear about all of
that stuff.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
That's the only thing you talked about on Twitter, as
I recall.
Speaker 5 (45:29):
Yeah, that's that's that's all I talk about on Twitter
is just uh, just you know, we just do band
promo on there. It's a very typical nineties band account
where we just like post photos of ourselves with with
wallet chains, you know, doing the devil horns and saying
come out to our show, the rib Fest, you know
(45:53):
in Tulsa.
Speaker 4 (45:54):
That's that's what. That's the kind of content that you're
going to find at our on our Twitter.
Speaker 2 (45:58):
Okay, cool? Do you still have the pants which are
the ones that you cut slits in the side to
make wider so you.
Speaker 4 (46:09):
No, I wish I can't changed, I know, I know. Yeah,
those were so cool.
Speaker 5 (46:17):
Like when I see pictures of us from from back
in the day, it's just really funny because none of
us have feet.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
Yeah, I used to. I used to chain when my
when my pants would rip down the side, I would
chain the hole between the two sides of it, make
chain men.
Speaker 4 (46:36):
Yeah, that's pretty tough, pretty tough.
Speaker 2 (46:38):
Yeah that's what people saw. I saw me coming and
we're like, well that girl's tough. That is absolutely the
vibe I managed to communicate when I was a goth
girl didn't know she was a girl in the nineties. Yeah, okay, Well, Sophie,
do you have anything you'd like to plug just at.
Speaker 1 (46:56):
Cools on media on Twitter and Instagram for all things Margaret.
And you have a book coming out.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
Correct, I do, but I should pitch my band. I
have a band called Feminage School where a feminist, atmospheric
black metal band. And we have a bunch of different releases,
mostly on band camp or through various labels. And then
also eventually we'll have a full length again, we already
have one, but it's not up for pre order right now.
(47:22):
Unlike my book We Won't be Here Tomorrow, in which
I name every short story things that sound like they
would be black metal album titles like The Devil Lives
Here and Into the Gray and you know, very dramatic
things a very dramatic person. And that is okay. So
my book is available for pre order. You can get
at Akpress and if you get it, you get a
(47:44):
little postcard of art. That is nice part. We love that.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
And we'll be back what next week?
Speaker 2 (47:51):
Monday, I believe so cool every Monday and Wednesday. Great,
I'll see you there, all right, Thank.
Speaker 4 (48:00):
You both so much for having me on. This has
been really fun.
Speaker 2 (48:02):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (48:09):
Cool people who did Cool Stuff is a production of
cool Zone Media. For more podcasts on cool zone Media,
visit our website coolzonmedia dot com, or check us out
on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get
your podcasts.
Cool Zone Media.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Hello, and welcome to Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff
rerun edition. That's right, it's the holidays, and that means
that I am going to run reruns. And I thought,
what's better to get us in the holiday spirit than
that holiday band. I've decided their holiday band the history
of everyone's favorite an arcopop band, Chumbawamba. It's probably not
(00:27):
a Christmas band. In fact, they might be annoyed if
I call them that. Well, it's too bad because it's
my podcast and this is a history of Chumbawamba. We'll
be back next week with a non rerun whatever you
call it, a run, a regular run. Anyway, here it.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Is Welcome to Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff with
Margarete Kiljoy, a podcast that's about cool people who did
cool stuff. Our guest today is Max Collins. Max, how
are you doing? You want to well about yourself at all?
What's going on?
Speaker 3 (01:05):
I'm doing great.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
Thank you, it's good to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
I was going to say on this day. That is
definitely a different day. I think everything this podcast knows
that we record it and two takes or.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
Good.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Yeah, so so Max Collins our guest in the nineties,
he actually did an anthropological field study on one hit
wonders in the rock world.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
That's right, everything Margaret, you're saying right now is absolutely, unequivocally,
verifiably true.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Yeah, exactly, Yeah. Yeah. So today we're talking about one
hit wonder Chumbawamba, And if you haven't listened to part one,
what the fuck is wrong with you? Did something go
wrong with your life? Why do you make the choices
that you make? So go listen to that. Okay, So
around the early nineties, life starts changing for Chumbawamba. It
(01:53):
stays a galitarian, but it goes from this like loose
chaotic thing into something more like a worker's cooperative. They
start having tons of meetings. By one account, they spend
more times in meetings than in practice. There's like eight
or nine of them at this point, and most of
them move out of the squat but stay in the
band and stay activists, and they just want to do
other things with their lives and more and more. They're
also like having families and shit, right, and sometimes maybe
(02:17):
obviously some of them are having kids in the squad,
but I could imagine not being like this is where
I want to raise my children. I don't know, whatever,
and One of the cooler things about them is as
they start doing this, they don't go off vh ones
behind the music, like they keep not exploding. Some of
them did drugs, some of them were sober. They date
within the band, They get one of them dumps one
(02:40):
of them to go date the other bandmate, and everyone
stays good with each other more or less. Like I
don't know, they I feel like they kind of like
did hedonism right at least as its presented. And they're
self mythologizing, right, yeah, parties and raves and shows and everything,
but they're they're not doing the like trash the hotel room,
draw penises, a sexually assault fans thing.
Speaker 4 (03:01):
Right and so.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
And they're basically at this point trying to make it
as no longer young musicians. They're trying to be like
this is. So they sit down and they have a
what the fuck are we doing meeting, like a conversation
ten years into the band, and they're like, all right,
let's fucking do this thing, like let's double or nothing,
let's you know. They they quit their jobs to do
it full time, which means that they needed to pay
(03:25):
their employees, which was themselves and also other people were
helping them out, and so commercial considerations start having to
be balanced alongside musical and political considerations as they make
this music. And in nineteen ninety four they release Anarchy
as the name of an album and the cover of
which features the photo of a child being born, which
is from a book for children about where babies came from.
(03:48):
But this is obviously like their whole point is like,
you're all going to call this pornographic, aren't you, And
it did. It's called pornographic. Stores refuse to sell it.
They keep it in brown bags because you can see
a vagina in it or whatever. It's my favorite of
their albums, and it's the first time that they crack
the very bottom of the mainstream charts, and it has
(04:09):
the song if you haven't if you've never listened to
a Chumbawamba song besides tumb pumping, or even if you
haven't heard that, go listen to Homophobia by Chumbawombam. So
they start getting to play larger and larger shows right
as they start taking this band really seriously. Ten years in,
they tour more of the world, and the press fucking
hates them. They're like, you're washed up, bad musicians. You're
(04:33):
all too old. You scream about politics, but you don't
even believe any of it. You're or like they're all
like you're too woke, you're ruining the music whatever. And
the fans love them. They sell out shows left and right,
and the press goes between ignoring them and hating them,
which is like, this is just like literally how to
succeed as a cult band, that really is. And in
(04:55):
nineteen ninety six, they're not super famous yet, they're not
tub thumping famous yet, but they're sharing a stage of
Smashing Pumpkins in Germany at some big televised event, and
Smashing Pumpkins is apparently being real assholes about it, at
least as related in bof Whaley's book. And so they,
like all the other bands, have to like hide in
their dressing rooms with the doors closed and they can't
(05:16):
be in the corridors when Billy Corgan comes through or something.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
And this is still pretty tough something. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Yeah, So they're like not seeing as Smashing Pumpkins as
peer yet, but they're big enough to be at this
televised event. And so Dan one of the people in
Tumble one, but he likes being naked, like constantly. He's
stripping on stage for the fuck of it, and the
band is like, Ock, what are we going to do
to prank these assholes? That's like what we got to do.
That's our thing, you know, I know, Dan, take off
(05:44):
all your clothes. So Dan gets naked. They write that
word punk and huge letters across his chest. He strolls
out on stage just as Smashing Pumpkins's their big finale.
You know, he walks up to Billy and he salutes
the crowd naked, and then he walks off and yes,
the band has to physically rescue him from bouncers and
that they fled the scene as like they're being chased,
(06:06):
and the promoter is like, you'll never appear on German
television again, which probably didn't turn out to be true.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
Incredible, and yeah, I know, I love it.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
I love it. Also, in nineteen ninety six, they turn
in an album called tub Thumping into their label, which
is a label called One Little Indian, which was not
a great name for a label, and just to be clear,
the label realized that and in twenty twenty they changed
their name to One Little Independent. In nineteen ninety six,
Chumbawamba turns in this album to them, and the label's like, no,
(06:38):
this sucks, go home and write better songs. No good onward.
And then EMI Germany, a major label, was like, well,
we'll give you one hundred thousand fake europe money for it,
maybe pounds, maybe euros, I don't know, one of the
fake moneys that they have over there. And at first
they laugh it off, right, They're like, no way, well
we do that obviously, and then they kind of sit
(07:01):
on it and they're like, we're so fucking broke, and
that is enough money that even if the album doesn't
sell at all, we can still pay everyone involved a
decent wage, you know. They To be clear, Chumbawamba had
put a song out on an anti EMI compilation about
ten years earlier. The compilations called fuck EMI. At the time,
(07:22):
I was deep in the nuclear arms industry. EMI had
since divested from that. But still it wasn't It clearly
wasn't good optics, and they weren't sure, but they I
think what happened is that they they were sure it
wasn't good optics to the punk scene. What they were
trying to figure out was whether or not it was
good ethics, and they wanted to make their decision based
on that. So they talk it over as a collective
(07:43):
like they do everything. They don't vote about major decisions.
They work for consensus, and they talk it over for weeks.
They are like, look, symbolism is bad, but change for
change's sake is sometimes good. They were stagnating, and they
were like, fuck stagnating, that's what we don't want to do.
It's more of a chance to reach more people. Saying
fuck you to a scene that was getting way too
(08:04):
essentially conservative from their point of view, seemed fun to them.
Being able to pay themselves enough to not worry for
a while. Like they're all working class folks, right, and
they're prosing middle aged without much of a safety net
because they all were squad or punks, and and they're
like bands like Fugazi can get away with being fiercely
independent because they're just big enough and sell enough records, right,
(08:25):
Chumbawamba wasn't selling that kind of those kinds of numbers.
And but fear of what people would think was a
big part of it. A few years earlier, in Poland,
some American punk had taken it upon himself to like
slash their tour van tires because he was mad about
how much the band was charging for the show. Punks
can be sort of myopic, Yeah, yeah, and one of
(08:49):
the one of the things that they thought about a lot,
you know. The most convincing argument to some of them,
and I actually think maybe the most convincing argument to
me is they're like, look, our independent labels are also
just all about the money. They are also fucking us over.
They're also greedy, we might as well get paid well.
Alice Nutter puts it in an interview with a punk
(09:11):
magazine later. My reasoning for doing it isn't how we're
going to get our message across to more people. It's
nothing to do with that. It's because my experiences with
one little Indian in the music industry have me convinced
that they're all the fucking same. They're small businessmen and
big businessmen, and they have a different agenda to us.
There's no good or bad capitalism is kind of what
(09:32):
they hit upon. Yeah, they do it, and which brings
us to probably the only song by them that most
of the people listening to this podcast have actually heard.
It'sub thumping about falling down and standing up and about drinking.
I literally don't know. I didn't actually ask Sophie what
I'm allowed to do in terms of quoting song lyrics,
so that's why keep tee speaking about it very vaguely.
(09:52):
Sophie says, yes, I can claim that I wrote the
song and that it is legally my property. That is
what Sophie is nod in and saying yes right now.
So I wrote the song tub Thumping, and when I did? Okay, so,
but I'm going to quote both whiley about this song.
Tub Thumping, from his very outset as an idea, was
definitely populist and based on working class experience. That's working class,
(10:14):
not just as a mythic Trotskyist vision, but as a
cultural and historic whole, which includes family and sport and
community and war and love and entertainment, not just the cliched,
clenched fist getting up, but the getting knocked down as well.
Tub Thumping became known to some purely as a drinking song,
which is fair enough because of nothing else. It didn't
(10:35):
belong to an elite group of musicians. It belonged to people.
People at football matches, people singing along to the radio
as they drove, people at parties, drinking too much whiskey
and tripping over the kitchen chairs people like me, and
because it helped beggar the notion that Chumbo Wamba were
boring zealots from planet Anarchy, And that's not what I
realized when I heard it when I was in the
(10:56):
nineties and like driving around and like, but.
Speaker 5 (10:59):
I think it's cool to They don't try to shew
that interpretation, because yeah, it is a drinking song, you know,
it's but it works on a couple different levels. But
it is a drinking song insofar as like you know,
you're drinking with your mates, and there's community there, and
(11:20):
there's solidarity there, and and there's you know, commiseration for
the getting knocked down, you know, parts of life.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
There, which is punk as fuck. It is punk as fucked,
like put your arms around all your friends and drunkenly
sing songs like whatever. The song you know, like yeah,
like yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
It's collective, it's it's yeah, it's kind of a spiritual experience, you.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Know, yeah, totally, and it's one that we have like
increasingly stripped away from us by by modern life. And
apparently one of the main inspirations of the song was
watching a drunk Irish guy stumbling home from a bar
singing Danny Boy and being told to shut up by
a neighbor. So and the song goes fucking huge. And again,
if you were live in the nineties, you probably remember this.
(12:10):
It's number two in the UK, it's number six in
the US, It's in the charts everywhere in the world.
It gets ranked on lists of like the twenty most
annoying songs of all time.
Speaker 5 (12:20):
Yeah, I mean there's a distinction to be made there
between between like a hit song and like a global smash.
Speaker 4 (12:29):
Like that song was.
Speaker 5 (12:32):
Like, you know, number one on alternative rock radio or whatever,
but also pop radio and also not just in the US,
but like, yeah, you know everywhere. It was just one
of those, you know, hyper ubiquitous songs that you could
not escape no matter where you were, no matter what
(12:53):
your where, your tastes, what genres your tastes went to,
or whatever.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Yeah, because it's also kind of a genre list song,
Like on its face, you know, it has like I
think electronic drums and just this catchy singalong chorus and
like it's just and it's like, yeah, it's almost like
like a collective delusion, you know, this thing that just
like absorbed everyone for a moment, you know, and yeah,
(13:23):
I don't know, it's fucking interesting.
Speaker 6 (13:25):
It's like, in a way, it's like it it was.
It was a troll sort of, but it also wasn't
a cynical one. They were Yeah, they weren't looking down
on the people enjoying it. Yeah, for whatever surface reasons.
There was no contempt there. Yeah, but it was this
thing that functioned on a couple different levels.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Yeah. Yeah, it's so fucking like, it's just brilliant. It's
such a it's yeah, it's a prank, but it's not
a prank, you know. It's this earnest thing they did
that got injected into pop culture and don't it's fucking
and a lot of their old fans write them letters
calling them sellouts. But the people who really led the
(14:09):
charge of calling them hypocrites were the same music journalists
who had always hated them because they're like, ah see,
we told you their politics didn't mean anything, which was
their way of basically excusing themselves for never having had
decent politics in the first Yeah.
Speaker 5 (14:21):
Which is a really dubious way to sort of yeah,
you know, truffle Hunt for what seems like hypocrisy, but
if you scratch the surface at all, you realize really isn't.
It's a collective who wants to be able to take
care of their own and, as we'll find soon enough
(14:42):
in the story, take care of others as well, and
do that by siphoning corporate bunny and yeah, like you know,
doing Robin hood shit.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Really yeah, totally totally. And it's funny is to look
at like if I had been I, you know, I
was a a salty subcultural but not like a punk
yet right at the time of all of this, if
I had been, like if it had happened in two
thousand and three, I probably would have been one of
the people being like, h you fucking sellouts, right, But
I'm glad that I don't, you know, like twenty one
(15:16):
year old me is not who I look back to
about what decisions were best to make for my life.
You know. No, I'm stuck with some of the tattoos.
But that's okay too.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
So they spend two years, the next two years in
this whirlwind of fame. It doesn't stop them from being themselves.
And first and foremost, they give away just a fuck
ton of money, since since all the money gets split equally.
They didn't like fuss about who deserves what amount and
stuff like that. You know, there were the people who
are the lead singers of the songs whatever, but they're like,
(15:46):
we're just split it in and evenly. We'll work from there.
And they peer pressure each other out of like running
out and buying Jaguars. Boff notes that Dan went out
and bought a really fancy vacuum cleaner, which I must
be what middle age anarchists do. And they suddenly have
a lot of money. You know, nice vacuum cleaner. It's
a very nice thing. And they I get the impression
that they hold onto enough money to not have to
(16:08):
worry about being poor. But they donate money to artists,
women's groups, prisoner defense campaigns, kids football teams, radical media projects, venues,
solidarity groups, individual organizers, community groups, magazines, direct action groups,
and social centers. At one point in two thousand and two,
GM wanted a song for a commercial. Yeah, Jumble Womba
(16:30):
said yes, and they take it. Took one hundred thousand
dollars or different accounts give different amounts, but a large
number of money, high money number one hundred thousand will
go with that, and they just turn around and they
give half of it to indie Media, which is this
big decentralized ub the media network, and they give which
is unfortunately kind of probably what prefigured Twitter and to
(16:52):
rest of the nightmare we live now, but it was
a good idea at the time. And they give the
other half to a project called corp Watch that is
specifically tracking GM, like exposing their crimes. And so they
just turn around and give fifty thousand dollars to people
who are like specifically attacking GM. Yeah, and so if
the two main arguments that they have in favor of
selling out are reach a wider audience and get fuck
(17:13):
tons of money, they do both. But I actually I
think Alice Nutter was right in some ways. The fuck
tons of money, which seems less the radical goal, is
actually in some ways the more radical thing they did
because the wider audience didn't necessarily like get it right.
They talk about anarchism on news shows, they mostly get
made fun of. They sell their music to a ton
(17:35):
of places, but they turned down other places too. They
turned down Nike, who offered them a million and a
half bucks. Their rules were really simple and strict. They
wouldn't sell their music to anyone involved in sweatshop labor
or the arms industry. And when I first started researching
this episode, I thought it was going to be mostly
about their high jinks during the fame period, because they
did really good hijinks. But in the end, I you
(17:57):
know the reason. The first half is more about the
working clas punks in a squat breaking laws is like
what I kind of lingered on. But let's talk about
the hijinks one time. In nineteen ninety seven, in the
Top Thumping era, Dan gets arrested in Italy literally for
just walking down the street wearing a skirt, and he's
held in his cell. He has a show that night.
He gets held in a cell with no one speaking
(18:17):
to him in English, and finally he scrawls I'm in
a pop group called Chumbo Wumba on a piece of
paper and helds it up to the glass of the
cell and they release him and he gets in time
to go to the sound check. The next day, he
appears on Italian TV in the Skirt and says Italy
has some problems with homophobic, macho cop culture. Alice Nutter
(18:42):
steps up as being the kind of unofficial spokesperson for
the band. I think mostly because she enjoyed talking the
most and had the most to say. She was also
maybe the most firebrand of them. In nineteen ninety seven,
she told the UK Press, nothing can change the fact
that we like it when cops get killed. Emi is like,
(19:03):
oh my god, please apologize. What the fuck? Oh my god?
She didn't apologize and such. She clarified her statement. If
you're working class, they won't protect you. When you hear
about them, it's in the context of them abusing people,
you know, miscarriages of justice. We don't have a party
when cops die, you know, we don't. But before we
hear about more of Alice Nutter's anti capitalist hijinks. Ooh,
(19:28):
we have some capitalist hijinks for you in the form
of products and services. Okay, and we are back in
January nineteen ninety eight, Alice Nutter, she goes on the
talk show Politically Incorrect, and she says, basically, yeah, if
(19:51):
you can't afford our music, just go to the nearest big, evil,
giant chain store like Virgin and steal it. And Virgin
didn't like this. Chumbawamba at the time is Universal's number
one selling band, and here's the band saying, just steal it.
Who fucking cares? As long as you steal it from
a large corporation. Virgin threatens to remove the album from
(20:12):
their stores, and it depends on what account you read.
They either stopped carrying it entirely or hit it behind
the counter.
Speaker 7 (20:18):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
And this only makes sales go up, which doesn't fucking
surprise me, right, Like I could have told them that, like, yeah,
more will get stolen. But if people steal the CDs,
people are going to listen to it and talk about it,
and more people are going to go out and fucking
buy it, right.
Speaker 5 (20:33):
And and if you're taking it off the shelves or
hiding it, you're literally manufacturing scarcity for the thing, and
by making it more valuable.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Yeah, yeah, so everyone wants to go out and find
it and get it. Yeah. So anyway, they're contact at
Universal called the band and was like, well, you all
just laugh at me if I tell you that Universal
wants to ask you to apologize for saying all that,
Like they're rep knows it's a like fool's errand that
he's been tasked to call them and ask them to apologize.
He's like, y'all aren't going to do this, are you?
(21:05):
And they're like ha ha Nope. And later Alice Nutters
in a recollection says, why should I apologize? I wasn't sorry,
which is exactly how you should or shouldn't apologize when
you make decisions about apologies. So and on the The
David Letterman Show, they changed the lyrics of tub thumping
(21:26):
to include from free Mumiya bou Jamal and Mamiya bu
Jamal for anyone who's not aware. As a black political
prisoner who was probably framed up on the murder of
a cop in Philly and at the very least definitely
had an unfair trial, he spent a couple decades on
death row, which was reduced to Life without Pearl in
two thousand and one. So Chumbawamba goes on Letterman and
sings free Mumiya bou Jamal, and it was pre recorded,
(21:48):
so Letterman let it happen. In the end, basically they
like sat down, Like The Letterman Show, people were like, fuck,
are we gonna let this fucking happen? And finally the
network is like, all right, fuck it. They run it
and they talk about anarchism with Barbara Walters. They basically
leave a trail of chaos that the record labels are
running around trying to clean up for them. But instead
(22:10):
of trash hotel rooms, it was just weird shit, you know.
And the peak of all this was the nineteen ninety
eight brit Awards, which I think are the Grammys for
people stuck on a tiny island without sunshine. My theory
is that they actually named the country after the award show.
It was called brit Land, but then with the accent,
(22:30):
sound like Britain, and so that's what's stuck.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
That's my thavorite sounds true to me.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Yeah, So I wonder how long I'm gonna get away
with this bit so Jumbawamba. They get invited to the
nineteen ninety eight brit Awards. They're even up for an
award themselves Best Single, and they're going to perform. At first,
they weren't going to perform, but the director he knows
their fucking number, and he's like, all right, you don't
(22:57):
want to perform, We'll let you have a video behind you.
And they're like, yeah, okay, we're in. We can show propaganda.
We are in. And the day of the director of
the wards. He goes up to chumble One personally with
a plea and he's like, hey, could you could you
not physically attack any of the other artists, And that's
(23:17):
his big request to them. Tumbawamba is like, all right, fine, whatever,
we won't attack any of the other artists physically, and
they even technically stuck with that. They they're not super
stoked about it, though, and everyone else is pissing them
off with all being off pop star and shit. And
I have a feeling that every like band that's played
(23:38):
at this level kind of like vaguely enjoys talking about bands.
But you know, they point out this in the book
that like half of Fleetwood Mac refuses to use their
dressing room because of inadequate carpeting. And I don't know
shit about Fleetwood Mac, and I'm taking both Whaley's word
for it. Maybe inadequate carpeting was like maybe like the
whole thing was like this like sewage swamp. I don't
fucking know, you.
Speaker 4 (23:59):
Know, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
But it's easier to imagine, like, ah, those damn rock stars,
said the one rock star to that. Anyway, whatever, it's
more fun to imagine too, Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So they
go up and play and they're all wearing sweatshirts that
say things like sold out or whatever, and they put
on a film behind them and it's full of people
rioting and protesting, and there's act up banners and there's
(24:22):
the stages streaming with red and black banners, and it's like,
it's exactly what I would do if I was up
for one of these aworts. And it's not even not
necessarily in an original way, but just it's it's like
you kind of have to if you're that band, you know.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
And at the time, dockers in Liverpool had been on
strike and it was one of the longest labor disputes
in British history, and the dockers had mostly lost. They
had been forced into a settlement package and they all
lost their jobs. And the Labor Party was currently branding
itself as New Labor and they were culpable for a
lot of that. So Chumbawamba changed the course of tub
(24:59):
Thump to include new Labors sold out the dockers, just
like they'll sell out the rest of us. And they
even brought some dockers with them to the ceremony. With
the plan that if they win, the doctors would go
up and accept on their behalf and give a speech
about what was going on. But Chaumbowama didn't win, so
they didn't get to do the Doctors accept thing. But
(25:21):
after they get off stage, they're like, oh shit, that's
John Prescott and he's the Deputy Prime Minister, which is
roughly the equivalent of vice president, and he's from the
working class. He used to be a member of the
same union as the Dockers, but he basically sold them out.
He was blocking tuition bills, he was fucking over the unemployed.
He was just doing all kinds of shit, right, And
(25:44):
so they're sitting around and they're like, what the fuck
are we going to do. There's the vice president of Britain,
which definitely has a vice president, and they they look
at the bin that had been full of all the
ice for the champagne and all of that, and they're like, Dan, Alice,
you got this and Dan and Alice are like, yes,
we do indeed have it. So they go up to Prescott.
(26:05):
Dan jumps on the table says this is for the
Liverpool Dockers and dumps a bucket of ice water on
John Prescott's head. Not to be outdone, Nutter is right
there behind him with I think an extra bucket of
water and also just soaks him with that as well,
and this is like on okay, So so Dan gets
arrested and Prescott has to be a good sport about
(26:26):
it because he's like trying to look cool with the
kids he's here at the brit Awards or whatever. It's
really hard to imagine a US politician being this cool
about especially a vice president. I'm like, I'm struggling to
imagine the punk band that can dump ice water on
the vice president of the United States and survive, you know.
Speaker 5 (26:42):
Yeah, yeah, I mean we saw the way was it Giuliani?
Who there was that video of a guy who kind
of like lightly like oh yeah, pat on the back
and then talks some shit yeah, and he acted like
it was a saul and.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Yeah yeah yeah. But however, they managed to dump ice
water on the fucking deputy prime minister's head, and the
deputy Prime Minister of Prescott is like, all right, I'm
not pressing charges, and so they get let go and
the tabloids eat the whole thing up, and of course
the usual snotty critics get mad and oh and then
(27:22):
Ginger Spice from The Spice Girls goes up to Prescott
to make sure he's okay. They made sure to include
that part in the in their biography or that's really funny,
and Alice Nutter later, I think it's talking about the
entire like arc of Chumbawamba, and it's like it was
all worth it just to be able to get at
John Prescott, just to get at these people who think
(27:43):
they're untouchable. And that's the thing that's kind of interesting
to me about like like people used to pie politicians
more often, it feels like, and it seems like the
point of that is just to say, like, hey, remember
you're a person. Yeah, you know, like this have been worse,
is what you're saying when you dump ice water on
someone's head. You know.
Speaker 4 (28:04):
Yeah, you're a person who's supposed to be accountable to us.
Speaker 5 (28:10):
Yeah, and you clearly aren't. And you enjoy this sort
of like protected celebrity status, you know.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Yeah totally And so okay. So they spent about two
years on the road doing the celebrity thing, and then
they take a break and they resume other parts of
their lives, figuring out their next move, and then they
put out a second album with EMI, which is a
bit confusing because then they're mythologizing. I've read some of
their accounts that are like, em I wanted to put
(28:39):
out another album, but we said no. But I think
they did put out another album with EMI. Either way,
either em I dumps them or they dump EMI and or.
Speaker 5 (28:50):
Yeah, EMI could have done something where if they were
under contract for another record or something but didn't want
to deliver it where they either. I mean, we had
our record label do that with us, where they put
out I don't know if it was like live stuff
for you know.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Oh interesting because you owed them an album but they
didn't like the way they turned in.
Speaker 5 (29:13):
Yeah, yeah, that kind of thing for us. I don't
remember exactly what the circumstances were, but I could see
it being something like that where they basically manufactured some
kind of release out of B sides or whatever.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
You know. Yeah, are you still they technically owned? I
think you're not still with a major label. Is that correct?
Speaker 4 (29:35):
That's correct?
Speaker 5 (29:35):
Yeah, we got dropped from RCA and like two thousand
and three, and we put records out now with an
indie label.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Called Velocity okay, which always seemed like kind of a
cool like after this, and I'll get to it in
a moment, like Chumbawamba kind of like goes from major
label back to indie. They go from indy to major
to indie, right, and they're like all right, And it's
kind of interesting to me to see that as a well,
you just do what's best in the situation, rather than like,
(30:04):
oh no, you're a failure because the major label dropped you,
or oh no, you're a sellout because you know you
went to a major label at all.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
I don't know, yeah, yeah, I mean sort of like.
Speaker 5 (30:19):
Judging or making the metric of like what is worthwhile
about making rock by what type of record label you're
on or whatever, ain't really.
Speaker 4 (30:34):
Where it's at.
Speaker 5 (30:35):
I can also see how, you know, perception is created
by like by that kind of story, Like you know,
it did feel embarrassing to get dropped from a major
label for all of those reasons, but then you sort
of realize.
Speaker 4 (30:53):
Like why why do you feel that way?
Speaker 1 (30:57):
Right?
Speaker 5 (30:58):
And you know this, the reasons for it are pretty
dubious once you examine them a little bit, like what
what do you what are you making stuff for? Anyway,
is it too, you know, appease, you know, the bean
counters or whatever because you like like to like to
(31:21):
make rock because it makes you feel free or whatever.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Yeah, and like connecting to people like you connect with
people different ways depending on what means by which you
access them, and doesn't make it better or worse, like yep, no,
it's interesting. Yeah, it must have been. You have not
been in that position, but it must have been like, oh,
we've we've hit our crest and now we are coming
down from it, as compared to like, well, no, you
(31:45):
got this like boost of attention and now you're able
to do things with that, you know.
Speaker 4 (31:51):
Yeah, totally.
Speaker 5 (31:52):
It's all in how you sort of frame your perspective
toward it. Yeah, Like I mean, in our case, we
did need to like break up for a host of reasons,
and we did for a few years, and only recently,
in the last couple of years have we started doing
this new iteration of the band that, like I said,
(32:14):
is sort of in practice a side project, but we
just still call it Eve six. But yeah, you know,
we're doing it for for the right reasons. And I
think a band like Trumbawamba was always doing it for
the right reasons.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
You know, yeah, yeah, And you know who else is
doing it for the right reasons. It's it's it's the Advertiser.
We're actually sponsored by this new this new act on
our ca clup Eve seven new band. It's very original.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
Okay, this is interesting. I hadn't I hadn't heard of this,
hadn't heard of this group.
Speaker 5 (32:55):
But my first reaction is, I don't know if this
town is big enough for two of us.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
Well, they've got this hit, and you know it's the
first Advertisers is going to be this hit. It's called what.
Speaker 4 (33:07):
Kind of prepositions are they working with?
Speaker 2 (33:09):
You? Put a blender in my heart? I believe?
Speaker 7 (33:11):
Is that?
Speaker 4 (33:11):
Oh?
Speaker 5 (33:12):
Okay, it's funny because five Seconds of Summer apparently just
released a song called Blender or like emotional Blender or
something like that.
Speaker 4 (33:22):
I haven't listened to it yet, but.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
Yeah, town's only big enough for one blender song.
Speaker 4 (33:26):
That's right? Yeah, stay away from our kitchen appliance.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
That is the official motto of cool Zone Media.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
Is that?
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Is that correct? Sophie is nodding?
Speaker 4 (33:36):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (33:36):
Sometimes I just say Sophie's nodding when Sophie's actually holding
up a sign that says stop doing this, you're going
to get us in trouble. But Sophie's not in this case.
She was nodding, yeah, yeah, totally. And here's some other
products and services including Eve six, I mean sorry, seven, eight,
and nine, and we are back. Okay, so up, and
(34:00):
we were talking about the the at this point, you know,
Chumbawamba is in there. Uh, they've taken a break from
the celebrity thing. Then they then they come back at
making music and they keep at it for another fifteen years.
Tom Pumping is right in the middle of the career
of Chumbawamba as a band. They start their own label,
they work with a bunch of different indies, and they
put out a ton of music and they continue to
(34:23):
accidentally show up at the craziest riots in history. Wow,
what a weird coincidence. And I actually this part actually
caught me by surprise because I had kind of assumed that,
like they're in their forties, I think at this point,
and like they're doing all right, and they're still just like, oh,
there's this riot. I mean, actually it's an accident. There's
just accidentally in all these things. And I really I
(34:44):
really appreciate about that they're bad timing where they keep
showing it for these things and so, and they also
fund a bunch of direct actions, which I think there's
still I don't want to conjecture too hard about the
things that they fund. And a bunch of them leave
the band and in two thousand and four, And I
spent a while trying to be like, what did they
leave the band about? Right? But then I realized that
(35:05):
none of them were trying to talk about it. There
was a little bit of like personal and political differences,
and they leave it at that, right, And.
Speaker 4 (35:13):
And that's cool.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
It's cool that I don't know because they're just like,
their whole thing seems to be like, how do we
come close to this environment that could have made us
douchebag rock stars without And so they're just like they
just worked through it, at least somewhat privately, right.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (35:31):
It sounds like they have loyalty to one another and like, yeah,
actual friendship.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
Yeah yeah. And it's almost like they, you know, repaired
a house together for ten years before they went on
any of this crazy shit, you know. And and even
the people who left in two thousand and four came
back for their twenty twelve Fuck It Were Done Tour.
I don't think that was the actual name of it,
but it might as well have been their fuck it, We're
Done tour, because they basically were like, fuck it, We're done,
and then they had a tour. And they still contribute
(35:58):
to each other's art to this day. They like a
bunch of them make movies and theater and music, and
you know, Baff writes books about running, Alice writes for TV.
Bruce is working on a documentary about Chumbawamba that's currently
on the the circuit where you're not allowed to watch
it unless you have a.
Speaker 4 (36:19):
Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
Right when they broke up, they put out a statement.
I'm a quote from it because I think they do
a good, pretty good job of summing up what they
were doing. Chumbowomba was our vehicle for pointing at the
naked emperors, for telling our version of the truth. It
gave us more than the joy and love of playing live,
writing songs and singing together. It gave us a chance
(36:42):
to be part of a broad coalition of activists and hectors,
optimists and questioners. But eventually the rest of our lives
got in the way and we couldn't commit the time
and enthusiasm that the band demanded, couldn't keep up with
whatever responsibilities came with a band like this. If there
were ever a Chumbawamba manifesto, it would and the inconsistent,
contradictory language of the dataists part strident belligerence and part foolishness.
(37:06):
This ending is no different. It comes almost as much
of a surprise to us as it may do to you.
Always more clown than politician, the band trips over its
outsized feet and performs its final tumble. There have been
squabbles and arguments along the way, a deal of griping, frustration, moaning, exasperation,
but always alongside a huge amount of good will and generosity,
(37:28):
good humor and love. What a riot it's been, frankly,
and now it's time to clear up the mess and
move on. And Dan, I'm gonna read one more quote
about from one of them about this, Dan in an
interview with band Camp in twenty twenty two. This year,
I guess I can just say this year, if I'm
talking about the year I'm in, I'm very proud of
what we did. The whole way through. We tried to
(37:50):
push the envelope. We weren't always successful, but we always tried,
and that's probably a defining characteristic of Chumba Womba. Whatever
era or genre we tried, it always had a working
class basis, which is a whole other story. When we
signed with the major labels in the mainstream, it didn't
destroy us. You could accuse us of selling out, but
we weren't bought up, and I think that's a testament
(38:12):
to the way we had each other's backs. The mainstream
usually swallows people and spits them out. I mean it
did split us out, but we took it as a compliment.
Speaker 4 (38:21):
Really there you go.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
Yeah, it's like what you were saying about, Like it
is just how you fucking look at it, you know.
Speaker 8 (38:28):
Yep, they're like prose or you know, I don't know
if that last quotation was what you know, said to
a reporter or something like that.
Speaker 5 (38:40):
But it's so beautiful and it's like better than their lyrics,
I know, their own sort of like yeah, assessment of
their story is is really deep and just like so
on point and includes.
Speaker 7 (39:00):
All of the admittedly seemingly contradictory things that made made
up Shambawamba, this thing that was you know, on one level,
just like a vessel for entertainment and diversion, and on another,
you know, straight up you know activism.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Yeah. Yeah, And it's interesting because I was thinking about
this as I was writing this out. I was like,
you know, I'm not really talking about their music, right,
and like their songs, and I'm not talking about like
their instrumentation and like and all that stuff really matters,
And it clearly mattered to them because the whole time
they're always like, oh yeah, we don't have to play
our instruments. They are like musically really talented to the
point where it's like sort of almost annoying. Like their
(39:44):
a cappella album, I'm like, you all wrote these amazing
like multiple harmonies and like all this crazy shit, you know,
and it's about all of these things at once. It's
one of the things I've had.
Speaker 5 (39:55):
Yeah, the music is an aspect of this thing that
as a whole is like yeah activist performance art. Yeah, yeah,
is really inspiring.
Speaker 4 (40:09):
You know.
Speaker 5 (40:10):
I mean, they they they they they did buck the system,
as as he put like, yeah, maybe they they sold.
Speaker 4 (40:19):
Out, but they didn't. What's the language he used, it.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
Spits them out? Oh right, But.
Speaker 4 (40:26):
Maybe but they weren't bought up. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's
really cool.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
Yeah yeah that it is really like this is funny
because it's like, I know, you're in a band and
I'm in a band, and I'm like, doesn't it make
you want to start a band or like makes you
want to like be in a band, you know, like yeah, yeah,
I'm writing right now. I've been in a bunch of
bands that have done various things, and right now I
like signed to my first indie label with my metal
band Cool and we have an album do soon, right
(40:52):
and it's our It'll be our second full length of
the band. And I'm like, oh, I should really care
about that, you know, in a way where I'm like,
I care about it and I've been working with this
band for years, but I'm like, I don't know it. No,
it's inspiring, yeah it it uh, you know, trains your
your eyes back on like what's important? Fun, joyful?
Speaker 5 (41:15):
Yeah about about a project and you know, exposes all
the things that aren't, all the metrics that are seemingly
important and that matter, and all of that shit which.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
Don't ultimately yeah yeah, and the way in which they
matter is the vehicle with which to do it, like
the thing that, you know, getting the money to make
the music allows them to make the music. That is
the the part of that that matters, you know. It's
just the ability to continue to allow to continue to happen, Right,
That's the end.
Speaker 5 (41:49):
It's not it's not you know, to make yourself obscenely
wealthy or you know, fame or whatever whatever else. It's like,
how that in their case, how that served their project.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
Yeah, totally, and both as individuals and as activists and
as artists, like the music that they make, how it
matters for its own sake and.
Speaker 4 (42:14):
Like mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (42:15):
And so they actually they released one album after they
broke up, because the very last release came in twenty thirteen,
the year after they broke up, and because in two
thousand and five they recorded an EP called in Memoria
Margaret Thatcher, and they were like, this would be released
when Margaret Thatcher dies, And so in twenty thirteen, Margaret
(42:38):
Thatcher did that did the world that that favor and
went ahead and died, and the EP came out along
with a statement, our deepest sympathies go out to the
families of all Margaret Thatcher's victims and it's a very
happy little album.
Speaker 4 (42:51):
It's amazing.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
Yeah, and so okay, so this is and so thanks
for coming along with my episode that I totally didn't
write in order to get myself off the hook for
taking corporate money Giant Faceless Corporation to run a podcast
about radical history. Now you all know my secret reason
we're telling you about Umble them. But but I I look,
I think the analogy works.
Speaker 5 (43:11):
Yeah, you know, yeah, I think I think they might
you know, tip their their bowlers.
Speaker 2 (43:18):
I hope. So if you're listening Jumble one. But yeah,
all right, well well uh yeah, what what can people
you say? You're in a band? What what is that band?
What do you you're the the band that ripped off
Eve seven?
Speaker 5 (43:33):
I think, right, yeah, Look, there's there's a bunch of
you know, vicious like rumors going out going around that
I have no footpold in the truth. Eve six came
before Eve seven, and Eve seven has been like, you know,
(43:54):
biting our vibe, you know, agreed egregiously and and and
you know, anyone who's got.
Speaker 4 (44:02):
Their ear to the ground Margaret has.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
Heard of Eve six, this quiet band that yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, okay,
And it does chronologically, six does come before you?
Speaker 4 (44:14):
Could you could use that that six comes before seven?
Speaker 2 (44:17):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I actually here it's afraid of
seven because seven eight.
Speaker 4 (44:22):
Nine, that's right. See, And that's that too, is true.
Speaker 2 (44:28):
That was despicable.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
If the lizards could only see how happy she was
while making that terrible joke, they would.
Speaker 5 (44:41):
Be they would be truly dismayed.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
Yeah, truly the worst. I lost all of my my
goth points went out the river river.
Speaker 4 (44:51):
Yeah, down the river.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (44:56):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (44:56):
Well yeah, so so what a what do you have
going on? You play or like, how can people check
it out? Maybe you have a new album out coming out?
Maybe it's even out by the time people listen, because
this will come out about a month after we record it.
Speaker 4 (45:08):
Yeah it might be.
Speaker 5 (45:09):
I have I have no idea when our album comes out,
but I know it comes out in like a few weeks.
Speaker 4 (45:14):
I think I should know this.
Speaker 5 (45:16):
But it's called hyper relevisation. If you follow us on
Twitter at Eve six, you'll you'll hear about all of
that stuff.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
That's the only thing you talked about on Twitter, as
I recall.
Speaker 5 (45:29):
Yeah, that's that's that's all I talk about on Twitter
is just uh, just you know, we just do band
promo on there. It's a very typical nineties band account
where we just like post photos of ourselves with with
wallet chains, you know, doing the devil horns and saying
come out to our show, the rib Fest, you know
(45:53):
in Tulsa.
Speaker 4 (45:54):
That's that's what. That's the kind of content that you're
going to find at our on our Twitter.
Speaker 2 (45:58):
Okay, cool? Do you still have the pants which are
the ones that you cut slits in the side to
make wider so you.
Speaker 4 (46:09):
No, I wish I can't changed, I know, I know. Yeah,
those were so cool.
Speaker 5 (46:17):
Like when I see pictures of us from from back
in the day, it's just really funny because none of
us have feet.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
Yeah, I used to. I used to chain when my
when my pants would rip down the side, I would
chain the hole between the two sides of it, make
chain men.
Speaker 4 (46:36):
Yeah, that's pretty tough, pretty tough.
Speaker 2 (46:38):
Yeah that's what people saw. I saw me coming and
we're like, well that girl's tough. That is absolutely the
vibe I managed to communicate when I was a goth
girl didn't know she was a girl in the nineties. Yeah, okay, Well, Sophie,
do you have anything you'd like to plug just at.
Speaker 1 (46:56):
Cools on media on Twitter and Instagram for all things Margaret.
And you have a book coming out.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
Correct, I do, but I should pitch my band. I
have a band called Feminage School where a feminist, atmospheric
black metal band. And we have a bunch of different releases,
mostly on band camp or through various labels. And then
also eventually we'll have a full length again, we already
have one, but it's not up for pre order right now.
(47:22):
Unlike my book We Won't be Here Tomorrow, in which
I name every short story things that sound like they
would be black metal album titles like The Devil Lives
Here and Into the Gray and you know, very dramatic
things a very dramatic person. And that is okay. So
my book is available for pre order. You can get
at Akpress and if you get it, you get a
(47:44):
little postcard of art. That is nice part. We love that.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
And we'll be back what next week?
Speaker 2 (47:51):
Monday, I believe so cool every Monday and Wednesday. Great,
I'll see you there, all right, Thank.
Speaker 4 (48:00):
You both so much for having me on. This has
been really fun.
Speaker 2 (48:02):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (48:09):
Cool people who did Cool Stuff is a production of
cool Zone Media. For more podcasts on cool zone Media,
visit our website coolzonmedia dot com, or check us out
on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get
your podcasts.
Host
Margaret Killjoy
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