Part One: Food Not Bombs, The Criminal Mutual Aid Conspiracy

Margaret talks with podcast host Andrew Ti about the long fight for our right to feed one another in public places.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, and welcome to Cool People Who Did? Cool Stuff
Your a weekly podcast that brings you all the cool
history and cool people who did I'm I'm your host.
I'm tired of saying cool thousand times in every introduction,
but that's the way it's going to be. My name
is Margaret Killjoy and with me this week is none
other than Andrew t who is the host of the
also does what it says? It does? You know? Is

(00:23):
this racist? Yeah? Andrew, how are you doing? Pretty straight up? Yeah,
I'm good good. Uh, yeah, We've I've been. I'm I'm
on a merciful hiatus from my my day job. So um,
I'm still I'm still at the point in the like
like week where I'm like I still wake up at
six am even though I don't have anywhere to be

(00:44):
and things like that. So stare at the wall being
like you understand that so much to do, but how
do I do it? I'm just like so tired. But yeah,
for no good reason, I saw I hung out with
a friends child and I'm gonna just back to the
enveloping and say, like a three or four year old
and I was like sitting on the couch and fell

(01:05):
asleep while she was talking to me, and apparently she
like simply did not stop talking the whole time. But yeah,
I'm I'm at that, just like, why am I so tired?
I'm just falling asleep? Okay, I will attempt not to
put you to sleep. No, No, I'm good, I'm I'm awake.
I had I had coffee, okay. And so freddyone's listening,

(01:27):
who doesn't know it? Just I don't know if that's
any of you. You know, is this racist has been
around for was it like ten years now or something
or notthing like that? Oh god? And from my point
of view, honestly, it did a lot to shape discussions
about race, at least in the subcultures that I'm part of.
So thanks for doing that. We used to like grout
around a not even laptop in our like weird communal

(01:48):
punk house and like laugh at the tumbler. Good lord, Yeah,
I I It's been such a like you know, it's
such a a evolution also of just like how people
talk about stuff. Um, and you know, I've grown And
then I had a co host a couple of years ago,
Tony Newsome, so we've all, like you know, both been

(02:10):
part of conversations, but also everyone's talking about this stuff
in a in a smarter way, but also not um
But yeah, it's nice. It's nice to just have a
thing to do that that's a that's you know, more
or less of my own our own. Uh, and yeah,
I don't know. And the thing that I've always liked
about doing yours this racist is as a person of

(02:32):
color in comedy, I more often than I would like
wind up in situations where it's like all white folks around,
and you know, sometimes people expect you to be the
arbiter of this ship simply by virtue of not being white.
And now I can, Now I can offload that stuff
to podcast. I can just you know, I'm not I'm

(02:52):
not on the clock right now. So yeah, yeah, totally.
I'm not going to tell you whether's something is racist.
And I don't want to talk about this ship. Yeah
that's time. I have a time to do this, and
it's not right now. Yeah. I hear you have a
tour coming up, is that true? Uh? Just a few
tour dates, Yeah, Austin on the August and Brooklyn on
the tenth of September. I'm realizing the months go seven, eight,

(03:14):
nine and the dates go. So that's weird. Anyway, I'm
glad now I wish is the numerology. I'm just looking
at this. Yeah, but yeah, suboptimal pops dot com, suboptimal
pods is the uh, the little not even network because
it's just us, I mean my cost Toney Newsome. We

(03:35):
made a little website and a little little thing for
when we went independent a couple of years ago. Anyway,
please come CEUs would be lovely. Hopefully I will be
entertain you all now enough to make a case for
to the c CS live. Yeah, and I'm optimistic. We

(03:55):
also have our producers Sophie Lichtman on the call. How
are you today, Sophie, I am doing a whole Margaret,
thank you for asking. Sophie, did you ever have a tumbler?
I did not. That was like the one that was
like the one culture thing that I like avoided. I
really think I'm jealous. Yeah, I mean in retrospect, yes,

(04:19):
but it does seem like that kind of ship you
would like. It definitely does. But I, I honestly was,
did not have access to like computers and stuff that much.
I was. I was more like an outside kid, more
of a sports team kid, yeah, doing doing actual ship. Yeah,

(04:41):
I did get I did get my MySpace scrubbed from
the internet like a few years back, because there was
like because it was it was oh man, yeah, but
you have to like contact them because they because because
when you go for a while, when you googled me,
there was just like awkward like ween age photos of
me on the internet. But yeah, you had I had

(05:04):
to work really hard to scrub. But you have to
contact my Space still exists, but you have to contact them,
and you have to contact them like a lot, and
then you can get your skate scrub because it was
y'all keep talking. I'm gonna go ahead and just see
if my Yeah. I am so grateful for the fact
that I was an adult before not before the Internet,

(05:26):
but before the like yourself so much back in my
day the internet. But I was an adult when I
was on my Space, and so I was posting cringe
e stuff. But it's like twenty three year old me
and cringe e stuff or something. A lot of old
bad bands of mine have like multiple I had multiple

(05:48):
MySpace profiles for the same band because um, you can
only have four songs up, and so I just set
the whole. Wo yeah, so enterprising. Yeah, I'm it appears
as if I am not on my Space, and I'm
so happy for you because it was. It was a

(06:09):
mission to remove what was an interesting choice in music. Okay,
so speaking of things that have cringing moments and really
beautiful moments, much like Sophie's my Space. I'm sure I
don't know what order we're going to release the episodes,
but the last week, last week, we recorded this tear

(06:30):
jerker of an episode about the Warsaw ghetto uprising and
people fighting against Nazis, and I cried like a million
times while I was researching it. So I decided I
didn't want to do that this week. So this week
I've got something a little lighter. It doesn't have zero
people killed by Nazis, but so many fewer, so many,

(06:51):
all right, And because anywhere there's activists, there's bad stuff
they're fighting against and you just trying to stop them. Right.
But today we're gonna talking about cool is when people
share food with each other, because today we're gonna talk
about a long standing global mutual aid project. Andrew, how
do you feel about mutual aid? Uh? Yeah, I've been

(07:12):
I've been trying to get more involved in the one
that I my friend set up this little little outfit
on the mostly hand stuff out on skid Row and
San Pedro for the sweep defenses here in l a Um.
It's all called solidarity and snacks, which I guess actually,
if there's another plug the last meeting that I missed,

(07:33):
apparently we are once again as perpetually we are running
well on funds. So solidarity and snacks go, go and
donate if you feel like contribute, because those are two
good things in one title. Yeah, So today we're gonna
talk about a story of a mutual aid group that
has spent a lot of time on the FBI's domestic

(07:54):
terrorist watch list. It's an international conspiracy. It's present on
every continent on Earth except an Arctica. It's the present
in at least sixty countries. It has somewhere around a
thousand autonomous cells, and daily they commit crime. Since pretty
much night, thousands of members of this conspiracy have been arrested,
including fifty four of them in one single rate and

(08:15):
one of their terror cells in San Francisco. Because today
we're going to talk about food not bombs. Yes, I
figured we're going to talk about the group of non
violence activists who cook vegetarian meals out of food that
would have gone to waste and then feed it to
for free two people in the park. Yeah. I I

(08:35):
was in high school. I grew up in Antarbia, Michigan um,
which is a you know, sort of because of college
chon vibes, like a big food not bombs kind of joint. Yeah,
it was often like yeah, things like like littering or
um like you know, serving like unlicensed food prep and

(08:56):
things like that where they cry, Yeah, yeah, totally, we're
going to get into how like it's you know, why
they're choosing to come after people with all that stuff.
But yeah, wherever there's people trying to serve free food,
there's people trying to stop them. So I mean that's
that has been the one thing in my short like time,
like really participating regularly intermutualate effort is like, yeah, just

(09:20):
like the act of not having trying to make people's
lives slightly less miserable from time to time or like
dignified slightly more dignified from time and time is like
an act of violence against the state in a way
that is like all right, well, this is good. This
is something like, this is the revolution that my personal

(09:42):
old body can handle. Also totally we can just help people,
And that's like kind of a revelation I think for me. Yeah,
like realizing that it actually Yeah, the fact that they're
mad and try and stop it is how you like
realize you're getting something done. You're kind of like, I mean,
I want to people that rules, but you're like, oh,
this actually means something more. And you know, because they're

(10:04):
trying to stop you from doing it, they're really pissed
about it. Yeah. So so anthropologist David Giles called food
nut Bombs tongue in cheek. He calls it a mass
conspiracy to feed people or a network of anarchist soup kitchens.
And importantly, food nut Bombs tries for a mutual aid
model rather than a charity model. It's basically attempting to

(10:25):
create horizontal care rather than something that denies people agency. Right,
you're trying to increase our collective agency rather than say
well I've got some stuff and you can have it,
you peasant or whatever. Yeah, it's a it's a mass,
leaderless movement of autonomous groups that just share a few
basic concepts in the name. All you've got to do

(10:46):
to be food nut Bombs is call yourself food nut
bombs and then go out and do it, get food
donations or just pull stuff out of the trash, and
then follow three basic principles of the non group. And
the three principles are the food is a vegan or
vegetarian and free to everyone without restriction, rich or poor,
stoned or sober. You can tell this was written a

(11:06):
couple of decades ago. Food not Bombs has no formal
leaders or headquarters, and every group is autonomous and makes
decisions using consensus process. Food not Bombs is dedicated to
non violent direct action and works for non violent social change.
Those are the three rules. But even even these three
rules on the ground, this gets messy, right because not

(11:26):
everyone follows these three rules right right right, Like theoretically,
the one that I've run across the most. You know, theoretically,
a group should not call itself food up bombs if
it serves meat, for example, And I might get flak
for suggesting that I have observed people doing otherwise, right, Um,
you know, usually it's on the side, but you know,

(11:46):
and then I know another group that just didn't call
itself food not bombs because they were like, well, we're
going to do the exact same thing, but we're gonna
serve meat. And the reasoning was sound. The reasoning was
we eat meat. The people who were serving eat meat,
so let's just serve them meat. Yeah, and you know,
and they're getting the same donations of of meat from

(12:07):
the same place they get all the rest of the produce.
Wh fuck it. Yeah yeah, but oh go ahead, Oh no,
I was just gonna say, yeah, we recently had a
thing with solidrated stacks where we got yeah, like a
hot food donation, and it really was a thing where
it was like, man, you know because our normal thing
is like packaged like snacks and water and pope and

(12:28):
stuff like that, and it was just like, al right,
the transition between like serving plates of is so many
layers more difficult. And then like the vegan thing does
have a extremely I guess there's practical elements that sort
of cut both ways. One is like it's a little
while too. It does feel like, look, if there is

(12:49):
food that is not vegan that is going to waste,
it makes sense to get it back out into the community,
I think. But also it does it creates lays of
food safety that are so many, so many magnitudes more complex.
I'm just like, you know, the thing with the vegan
stuff is that it is almost certainly never going to

(13:11):
go bad, and if it goes bad, it's not going
to kill someone. That is literally the next sense of
the script. That is so true. Yeah, in all likely, yeah,
you know, caveat, but yeah, it really is. I was
just like, because, yeah, I think the first time I
came across the vegan thing, I was like, people don't
necessarily want vegan stuff, but it's so much easier. Yeah. Um,

(13:33):
I mean I've been vegan for a very long time, right,
but I I have no problem with the people who
are like figuring out ways to serve other people meet
and all that. Um. But one of the reasons I
stayed vegan for so long was because I ate food
out of the trash for a very long time, and
I was like, the worst I'm facing as a stomach ache.
You know, I'm sure that there's a way that I

(13:54):
could eat vegan trash and kill myself. I really weren't
at it, but yeah, you know, like way easier. I
think it's significantly less likely yeah, I think that that
truly is like the strongest case for it. Yeah, it
was a little hilarious. I forgot like at one point
we were getting um oh, shoot, I feel bad. I

(14:14):
don't remember the name of the organization, but it was
it was some organization in um south Central had vegan burritos. However,
they were like contributing and it was a little like
the chickpea curry burrito. It's like such a staple of Mutually. Yeah.
I was just like, yeah, yeah, yeah, this is what's
going out the door right now. I was like, damn,

(14:38):
I have I have like held this very burrito in
my hand across like different decades, like different states, different cities.
It's always the same thing. Yeah, I love food nut bombs,
but um, I didn't eat eggplant for a very long
time after eating a lot of food nut bombs because
I was just it was impossible to cook it well.

(15:00):
But the truth was random people who don't know how
to cook yeah, don't cook it well. It is it
is that, like God, we feel like someone should just
do like like the updated Mutual Aid cookbook just like
still Ship that you can get frequently in donations. But
we really just got to like change the proportions a

(15:22):
little bit and like figure out some way to or not.
But I was just like, God, damn it, this fucking
you know, like p Curry Burrito had it so many times.
Totally okay. And the other rule that people I think
break are not break, but it's like complicated to a
lot of people who said up these groups is the

(15:43):
third rule, the fact that it has committed to non
violent direct action. I would say food not bombs itself
is a non violent direct action, and people get very
excited about as a non violent direct action. But I
will say that, um, a lot of the the activist
world has changed dramatically since the eighties, and the threat
models that we face have changed dramatically since the eighties.

(16:04):
And I would say that a lot of people who
cooked in participating food not bombs on organizational level are
not themselves committed to non violence resistance. Sure, yeah, I
mean I think I think rightfully it's a multi art
thing exactly. Yeah, that has been That has been like

(16:25):
the an interesting thing about more actively participating in something
like this too, which is like again something not the
food not bombs, but I mutually more more like regular
mutual aid thing is like yeah, just like like because
part of me was like people here seem really paranoid,
and then like after hanging out with them for a
couple of years, I'm like, I understand what people here

(16:46):
are because I was like, I don't we I feel
like we put a lot of secrecy in like you know,
how many granola bars we're getting this week? And like yeah,
you know. But I was like, Okay, I'm starting to
understand what's happening here. Time. This isn't I'm going off script.
Whoa Okay. So this one time I was in it
was like two thousand two or two thousand and three,

(17:06):
and we're having this demonstration in Chicago and I don't
even remember what we were demonstrating against. These demonstrate against
a lot of things, and we're meeting up in the
basement of the Info Shop and we're like everyone's being
really careful and like speaking about anonymous things, and everyone's
like it's this top secret thing and the city has
spent tens of millions of dollars on the security, and

(17:26):
we're all like, all right, what are we going to cook? What? What?
What is the food? Not bombs? And I remember because
we had to drive past police lines with our like
tables strapped to the top of a minivan in order
to serve food, and and we picked. I was considered
the most arrestable person. So I was the one who
carried the knife so that we could cut the cable.

(17:49):
Why I had nowhere else to be and I wasn't
out as trans yet you know, um, the most arrestable
person loki a flex. Yeah, I was the one with
no responsibilities, and so so I carried the knife so

(18:09):
that we could cut the rope to get the table
off of the top of the minivan so that the
minivan could get away before they would be like pulled
over and ticketed. And it was like, okay, how are
we gonna you know? And I just remember I had
this moment where I was like, they think we're down
here plotting like murder, you know, and we are definitely

(18:30):
like how do we go feed people downtown tomorrow? Um? Yeah,
I mean like the other way to look at it
though a little bit, I think, and the feeling I've
been having and this might be a little not like
self serving and self justifying, is like, you know, like

(18:50):
like any effort, it's it's that like logistical support is
actually like how you running resistance run an army, like
you know, even just like recently, you know, I'm not
like a military person, but just watch you know this
this the ship in Ukraine, Like half of it is

(19:12):
really just like yeah, you you make it so the
food trucks take two days longer to get there and
the army stops. Like it's really like like I think
that that is maybe the other side of it is
like they realized that like this level of organization and
like just truly mass logistical support is the thing that

(19:35):
turns into whatever resistance is most needed at the time,
or at least can turn into. Those are the pieces
and it's part of and now I'm cheating. We'll have
to skip this when I get to it later in
the script. It's part of um what makes it mutual
aid instead of just a charity organization, right, because you're
creating the infrastructure by which we can feed ourselves and others. Yeah,

(19:58):
I know, absolutely, it's one of those things because I
you know, I'm now just like I've just aged into
I'm too old to throw a brick. Not that I
ever threw a brick, but I was certainly not at
least ready ready in theory to throw a brick and
if I know, absolutely had to. And I was just like, alright,
my brick throwing days are over. But like I don't

(20:20):
even remember who this is something I've repeated multiple places,
and I should look up. But this paraphrase, which is like,
you know, it's not the sexiest thing, but someone needs
to wash the dishes during the revolution to like you know,
that's like just you know, not like just as important maybe,
but like those things are all like part of you know,

(20:42):
both an active resistance and an active good society. It's
part of the invisibilized labor to write like yeah, yeah, right,
I mean it's definitely like I'm sure there's an element
to it where the reason it's not glorious is because
it's quote unquote with work. Yeah yeah, okay, So the
first time I wrote in some of you know, the

(21:03):
whole thing isn't just Margaret Nostalgia Hour, but but I
I wrote in part of this the first time I
ate food nut bombs. I've been a traveling activist for
like three days. I had just dropped out of college.
I'm in Richmond, Virginia, and I'm hanging out by the
river with these like super scary train riding people with
like there's like a woman with like face tattoos of
like tiger stripes and stuff. And they're like, all right,

(21:24):
we're going to food nut Bombs. So I go to
food nat Bombs and I show up in the park
and a couple of minivans full of cruss punks, which
is at the time is a very important distinction between
the crust punks who live in houses and the crusties
who don't um. All the terminology has changed since then.
There's no point in me telling anyone this. They come
out and they have all these trades of food. It's
a three course meal. It's actually the best food nut

(21:46):
Bombs and me, well, I've ever eaten. They had like
made dessert. They made this like raspberry cobbler, and it
was hundreds of people in the park from a lot
not all walks of life, right, but a lot of
different walks of life of people are in this park
eating this food and it And that was kind of
when I learned that there was almost this like and
I want to say was because my own my own

(22:06):
knowledge of food nut Bombs tapers off. My own direct
involvement in food nut bombs, but at least at the time,
there was this kind of like network of all of
the different East Coast cities were kind of competing to
see who had the the best food, the most food,
the most servings, and to feed the most people. Um
and it ruled. Like it just you know, that's the
only competition I'm really excited about is the like super

(22:28):
friendly competition where we all just get better at everything,
you know. So yeah, yeah, that that that's sort of
like exactly the best version of this sort of thing.
I guess. It's also like having not as close but
witnessed sort of these things. Also, like it is remarkable

(22:49):
how that what should be friendly competition can then also
turn into like Boker's hierarchical pulsion, which just like come
on totally by any power, I guess, is always dangerous. Okay,
So the history of food not Bombs so started as
a bit of it was a prank, kind of a
bit of street theater. And one of the problems doing

(23:11):
the history of food not Bombs, we mostly have one
guy's word for it. The guy is still around, is
still cooks food not bombs, mostly in Santa Cruz. His
name is Keith McHenry, and I don't agree with most
of his takes on current events. Um he's kind of
gone anti vax but um, but we mostly have his word.

(23:32):
We also have a word from our sponsors. Yeah. So
one of the things that's very important to know about
Cool People did Cool Stuff is that we are only
sponsored by very positive things and also things that you
can't buy. So, for example, we are perpetual and longest
running sponsor is the concept of potatoes. No individual potato
vendor or even style, but just the concept of potatoes.

(23:55):
And I'm wondering if you have anything particularly positive that
you would like Sophie to do the word to get
to sponsor this particular episode. Previous sponsors have been the
concept of tap water, the concept of me I see, well, yeah,
just a little. The dogs. I'm using a toothpick to
point to the dogs. Dogs like a sleepy dog, A

(24:19):
sleepy dog. My. My absolute worst thing that I've done
in the last two years is I have trained the
dogs uh to go into the crate by saying go
to jail, and they go. They hop right in the crate.
And it's funny to me, but not awesome. I that

(24:47):
my friend had a head or dog trained to to
put his paws on the wall. If he said cops,
he would go up. And that's amazing. Yeah, it's really
you know, your relationship with your dogs is interesting. Yeah,

(25:08):
let's give give it off for these little for the
snooze and dogs sleeping dogs and whatever. Whoever else paid
us the money and put ads on the show. Okay,
and we are back from those excellent advertisements about sleeping dogs.
If there were any other advertisements at all, please complain

(25:29):
to Sophie. Um. You should find her on Twitter at
I right, okay, And so Keith mckenry one of the
founders of food nut bombs and the primary historian of
food nut bombs. And I'm I uh, I don't. I
don't think he has any particular reason to lie about
any of this, but it's just sort of frustrating that
I can't check against other things very effecially. Any sometimes

(25:54):
centers himself a little bit in the history. But um,
but maybe it's completely accurate. I don't know. So he
seems to be the one who runs the food up
bombs website. Anyway, I like food nut bombs as a
mass movement is what I'm trying to say, and no
offense to this particular person who I disagree with on
some stuff. So it grows out of the anti nuclear movement.

(26:14):
On on MA, there's this big civil disobedience protest at
a nuclear power plant construction site in New Hampshire. And
I know that nuclear power is kind of more of
a complex issue in the current context of global warming
and as we try and figure out what the how
we're going to do, But at the time, nuclear power
especially was understood as a pretty clear danger, right, the
anti nuke movement spent its time drawing attention to that

(26:37):
danger and especially nuclear disarmament and the fact that they
were all expecting to die in a hall like a
you know, nuclear war at any given moment. And they
were also did all this six years before Chernobyl, so
they clearly weren't entirely wrong about the dangers of nuclear
power plants. Um. So they decided to try and stop
this place from being built, and they do it through
mass civil disobedience, and the way they go about it

(26:58):
it's really fucking cool. Uh. Four thousand people show up
and that's not huge for a protest, but it's really
big for direct action. Four thousand people with construction helmets
and d I Y padded armor and grapp lan hooks
and ships show up, uh and they are all set
to tear down the fence, storm the place, and put
their bodies in front of bulldozers in non violence of

(27:19):
it dis obedience form the government, though the government doesn't
actually want them to do this for some odd reason.
I wasn't able to find the government's reasoning for stopping them,
But they go about working trying to stop them. The
National Guards shows up. They wade in with batons to
beat the ship out of everyone. They pepper spray everyone.
Helicopters dropped tear gas on them from helicopters. I guess

(27:40):
the helicopters are the helicopters and the spokesperson for the
protesters a guy named Brian Feigenbaum. May or may not
have hit a cop with a grapp lane hook. That
is what he got arrested for anyhow, and I would
argue that he deserves support even if he didn't do it.
So so his support team. Thanks thanks for laughing at

(28:04):
my joke, appreciate it. It took me a second. I
was like, I got yeah, yeah, I wrote it, and
I was like, this is this is gonna work? I
don't know anyway. Um, So his support team goes about
trying to raise money for his legal defense, and so
they're like, all right, it's nineteen eighty and you'r how
how would what's the first non crime method that you
would use to try and raise money. I'm I'm curious.

(28:29):
Uh in the god, I don't know. Ah, it's okay,
there's got to be some some like securities. So I said, noncrime,
noncrime crime. I think those most of those guys were

(28:51):
not charged with anything, alright, I like mine dance a thon? Yeah,
there it is, and the world will be a very
different place if they had would dancer fum. They did
not know. They went with for a bake sale. Cute,
and a bake sale is a very cute way to
have people have muffins and brownies, but it is not

(29:11):
a particularly effective way to raise money on the scale
that they're tempting to raise money. So it doesn't work
very well. And so they're like, okay, you know that cliche.
It'll be a great day when our schools get all
the money they need and the air forces to hold
a bake sale to buy a b one bomber. Okay,
So my theory is that in the eighties, everyone in
the United States was a mailed a poster that says this,

(29:33):
and that's how it became a cliche, much like how
I believe it was two thousand five where the government
mailed everyone a Coexist sticker so that they could put
it on their car. Yeah, so they look I mean,
I feel like, I having grown up in like a
kind of hippie college tone, I'm just like, I feel
like I know the exact person who probably had to
be making this coexisting Yeah, totally. Yeah, they're also anti VAXX. Yeah, hippies, hippies.

(29:59):
Why anti boomers hit these way? I guess it's just
like we don't trust the government because I'm like I
don't either, but I trust scientists sometimes. Yeah. Well, it's
also like, I mean, obviously we don't need to, you know,
go go down this road. But it's like that's not
how the government is going to fund you. It's so weird.

(30:22):
It's like they're gonna suck you by not giving you
a vaccine your lunatic or charging your money for him.
If you think they have goddamn terminator style nanobots. Then
like it's over. It's over at that point. The vaccine, Yeah,
the vaccine is by far the least of your words.
Bill Gates can't even get you to buy a fucking telephone.

(30:44):
You think you could control people's minds. Maybe he did.
It would just be through advertising, and like, yeah, they
are control your mind in a different way, so dumb, Sorry,
they would be buying advertising. This is listically radical shows.
Oh no, this is like level of discourse. I apologize

(31:10):
for being so far behind it, all right, I live
under a rock. So okay. So they look at this poster.
They have a copy. They apparently they got one because
they were like they also had like a moving company.
They just had a bunch of different odd jobs and
someone like gave them a poster and they look at
the poster and like, oh, that's a good idea. So
they have another bake sale, but this time they dress

(31:30):
up like generals and they just say we're here to
raise money to buy a bomber. And this once again
does not raise much money for their friend. But what
it does is it shows them that street theater is
a very effective means to to communicate with people and
talk to people, because the first bake sales is kind
of a wash. Second bake sale they don't make any money,

(31:52):
but they talk to people and people get are like, oh,
what's this about. And they get to like talk about
all their politics and stuff with passers by, and people
are into it. So they're like, all right, street theater,
that's the thing. And so the next thing they do,
they're not even trying to raise money anymore. They just
want to protest some banks that are funding nuclear nonsense.
And so there's a big stockholder meeting it's March, and

(32:16):
the activists decided to stay just okay, this part is
actually really cringeing. Um. They decided to stage a soup
kitchen in front, which is okay, and they're like, these
policies are what led us to the Great Depression. We
don't want to go back. I'm like, okay, I'm with you.
And then they're like, so let's dress up like homeless people.
I'm no longer with them. And then they're like, and

(32:40):
let's go to a homeless shelter of the night before
and recruit people to come be extras in our street
theater at this protest by telling them that will give
them some soup if they come. And I don't want
to like deny the people who came their agency, but
like I don't know, I don't yeah, I mean any
anything conditional is all. It's like yeah, yeah, you sort

(33:02):
of like see exactly like the origins of this, um yeah,
that's like kind of type of movement in your way,
You're like, okay, well, but that is actually why it's
nice that um you know, there's I think the emphasis
on a non hierarchical kind of thing. At least it's

(33:24):
like good, there's no there's no gods, there's no founding
fathers that we have to give a shit about. You
get in this mutual eight yeah exactly, which is like
so yeah yeah, and and you know, and I could
be like super grateful that you know what they what
they set up and like, and so they staged this protest.
They set up a soup kitchen, and like fifty people
from the shelter come and they show up for lunch

(33:47):
and everyone was happy and everything was good based on
what we know of it, and and the fifty folks
were like, there's no one really feeding people downtown is Boston?
No one really feeding downtown. You should do this every
day and um, and I would argue that these fifty
anonymous people are the true founders of food, not bombs,
but that's just my own um yeah yeah, And and

(34:08):
they're like, okay, we're actually onto something here. So all
these activists, they're like food matters, Food brings people together.
People also need food. People seem to be addicted to
it for some odd reason. And so they all quit
their jobs. And depending on who you ask, they either
rented a house or squatted a house. And now I
would argue, quit your job and rent a house is
a sort of contradictory statement. So my money is on

(34:30):
squat a house, um, you know, or you know, or
one of them had a bunch of money from somewhere,
which is totally fine, and if so, they just if so,
they use their parents money incredibly well, but my money
is on squat at a house. And they just go
about doing this, and they start soliciting donations of food
that would be going to waste from from bakeries and
food co ops. One of them worked at a food

(34:50):
co op and was like used to throwing away all
this food and was like this sucks, you know, and
they start cooking all this food and they start bringing
it to shelters, to rehabs, to immigrant support center to
housing projects. Basically, they're like, anywhere someone needs food, we're
showing up with food. We're good at finding food, and
we will bring it to people. And then with the
like kind of leftovers, they start having this feed in
Harvard Square and they set up food for all commers

(35:14):
and these feeds turn into events and people are bringing
puppets and drums and all that ship that eighties activists
were super into, and people are sharing radical literature, and
then they're running around graffiti and everything with like peace graffiti.
I've totally met this kind of person before, and I
love them, even though I'm not one of them, you know.
And one of the slogans that they use in their
their tag is money for food not bombs, And eventually

(35:37):
this gets shortened to food not bombs, and that's how
the the Whole Project gets its name, or Keith Henry
coined it depends on who you ask, and I'm gonna
take one more swife at this particular weird history stuff.
Soon they had a logo to which is a purple
fist holding a carrot that's the food not Bombs logo,
and Keith mckenry drew that, but um, the food co

(35:58):
Op movement had been using as totally in a carrot
as a logo since the nineteen seventies. So anyway, whatever,
Like I actually kind of don't care, like, but go ahead. Yeah,
it's that era, Yeah totally. Yeah, it's just sort of
that era and that type of folks. And there's a
kind of limit to how much different graphic design. That's

(36:18):
a good point, yeah, totally. And so culturally this group
grows out of the anti nuke movement, which was a
kind of a fun mix of anarchists and Quaker who
are both friends of the pod. They seem to show
up constantly. Well, the anarchists because I'm I'm one, so
I keep throwing them in, But the Quakers. No idea
when I started this podcast how fucking radical the Quakers
are throughout everything in history. And then also radical Catholics

(36:41):
are part of the anti nuke movement, and and I
know some of the founders of the Fun Bombs are anarchists.
I don't know if all of them were. It's possible
because they like they seem to practice a lot of
the cultural norms of like anarchist activism throughout this time.
But it's also possible that they just set those norms.
So I don't know. But the Anti New movement it's
drawing from these three sources. And as far as I

(37:03):
can tell, you get direct action, protest, and youthful vigor
from the anarchists. You get consensus decision making from the Quakers,
and from the Catholics, you get this um you do
what is right, whether it's safe or not. And then
you also get this idea that I had no idea about,
but I got kind of excited about when I learned
about this idea called personalism, this theological concept, and this

(37:26):
segues us into me explaining the different ways that people
talk and look at homelessness. So I want to do that. Yeah,
all right, wait, are you to go into personal But
it's gonna come back around. Do you want to know
about personalism? Because if so, no, no, no, yea, just
like okay, no, it's gonna come back around to it.
So okay, So this I'm gonna contrast two theories about

(37:48):
homelessness and extreme poverty as a name by sociologist Teresa Gowin,
and I hate a good I hate a good versus
bad dichotomy. But this is a good versus bad dichotomy
because one of these ideas is good and one of
these ideas is bad. Um. The first theory Gowin calls
sick talk, and this theory claims that people are homeless
because of mental health, addiction, and criminality. Do you want

(38:09):
to guess whether this is the good theory or the
bad theory? By my standard, I'm comfortable saying yes. Surprise,
I love this one. Obvious kidding. So sick talk goes
back centuries. Everyone always wants to blame individuals for social problems.
I don't know if you've run across this before. Yes.

(38:29):
In contrast, you've got system talk, and I think that
they use these terms to be like the way people
talk about it. Right. Um, So you can either talk
about people as sick or you can talk about systems.
And during the Great Depression, future friends of the pod
industrial workers of the world, the Wobblies, they push this
sort of theory. This theory is basically that homelessness is
driven by the boom and bus cycles of capitalism and

(38:50):
the economy's need for a huge reserve of workers and
and for a good forty years or so after the depression.
Even the US government is on system talk. Oh, kind
of a watered down one compared to what the labor
unions want, but and it, and this is where you
get like the New Deal and all that shipped from UM,
which is like trying to moderate out the worst bad

(39:11):
stuff about capitalism UM in a lot of ways as
far as I understand, basically to be like, well, we
either do this or people start thinking that the USSRS
looks like a good idea. You know. Then Reagan came
in and dismantled all that ship in the eighties with
this free market bullshit, which caused a spike in homelessness,
which then got blamed on people getting out of mental institutions,

(39:32):
right even though actually the people there are more people
going into mental institutions, not the other way around. But
sick talk isn't a totally fuckum approach. It's not just
a like I don't care to let them die in
the streets. Instead, it's like like system talk is like, well,
let's provide everyone what they need, or at least let's
set up like work programs and help everyone deal with ship.

(39:55):
Where sick talk solutions are like, oh no, everyone who's
homeless is sick and needs eatment, and they treat homelessness
as this individual problem. Yeah, well it's also that you know,
that's the thing, the charity versus mutually a thing as
you talked about earlier, which is like which is also
a vocabulary I'm like not good at. But yeah, this

(40:18):
idea that it's like like sick sick talk as as
we were, as you were, is sort of like leads
to this like pity, So you do this out of pity, um,
which is not like, I mean, you see the ways
that it's totally No, that's such a good point. And
so even though it's Reagan who brings all this stuff up,

(40:38):
uh is bipartisan, Bill Clinton is entirely on this page,
and everyone since then has pretty much been on this page.
Because if we can see homelessness as a personal failure
instead of an economic crisis, then we can avoid pain
essentially the economic crisis, although I would argue that we
will not be able to avoid talking about the economic
crisis much longer. But um know so, so I don't

(41:03):
like sick talk very much. I like system talk. But
what does this have to do with Food Not Bombs
and Catholics and personalism you ask, Glad you asked. So
these problems they have to get addressed on a system
wide level, but that doesn't mean there aren't individuals who
are suffering from it. And so I want to quote
the author Shaun Parson, who wrote a book called Cooking

(41:24):
Up a Revolution about Food not Bombs. What makes the
radical homelessness politics of groups like Food Not Bombs and
the Catholic Workers unique is not that they embrace a
systems talk, but that the few systems talk with a
radical personalism, personalism which has its roots in Catholic theology
and the writings of Thorou and Tolstoy. Front of the
Pod Tolstoy and every fucking episode along incredible. I did

(41:47):
not think we were getting at in this one. Wow,
No unbelievable. Uh is a European religious ethical philosophy developed
by Emmanuel Monier. I think humane eash and every person
and was modeled in the image of God and therefore
was uniquely beautiful and valuable. Therefore, no person is worth
more than another, and no person is expendable. And so

(42:11):
I'm no is no longer quote. Personalism is really interesting
to me. Um, it springs up in the early twentieth century,
and then it influences this interwar movement in France. I
love falling down these rabbit holes is one of my
favorite parts about this podcast. So there's this this interwar
movement in France called the nonconformists, who do what a
lot of my favorite people do. They like, um, they're

(42:32):
influenced by a bunch of French socialists, including prudal and
the anarchist. And they hate capitalism because reasonably obvious why.
And they hate fascism because it's even more obvious why. Um.
And they hate the uss ARE because reasonably obvious why um.
And Actually one of the reasons that they hate the
USSR though, is that they're mostly religious and they are

(42:54):
not materialists. They believe in spirituality, and so they're like
left with, like, well, what the hell do we believe
if we come up with this like spiritual socialism and
it's very heavily influenced by personalism and um And I
don't know a ton about these folks yet, I'm just
like kind of starting to learn about them. Also, they
kind of didn't get a chance to do anything cool
because then World War two happened, and then like half

(43:16):
of them became collaborationists with the Nazis and the other
half joined the French resistance. Um, I think right, So,
which I guess that makes sense. It's sort of yeah,
those are sort of the two sides. I just even
as you're talking that. The interesting thing is, like, I mean,
like any philosophy, obviously like there anything could be used

(43:37):
in a different way, but I hadn't really like heard
this phrase or this concept personalism. But that also is
the direct line too. If you truly believe that a
fucking embryo as a person, then why why is you know,
a real person more valuable than these cells? Like oh yep,

(44:00):
and you know what else is more valuable than some cells? Advertisements? Yes,
once again debatable, Yeah, fair enough. Unfortunately, based on the
aforementioned economic system that we live under, we are sponsored

(44:21):
by advertisers and you can listen to them if you want,
or you get fast forward. I don't care, neither do I.
And we are back and we're talking about personalism and
all that stuff. And and one of the reasons I
like how it ties into uh taking care of people

(44:44):
is that it's kind of this exploding brain meme. Right. Um,
you get the smallest brain is the sick talk, where
it's like homelessness as an individual person's fault, and then
you get systems talk, which is like, actually, there's alt
of systems that needs to be addressed on a systemic level.
And then you get the big exploding brain thing where
it's like, yeah, it's totally the system's fault and needs
to be addressed on systemic level, But this also affects

(45:05):
individuals and we need to address it on an individual
level as well. Even though the blame isn't on the individual,
the care also needs to happen on an individual level. Um,
so I like it as what I'm trying to say, Yeah, yeah, yeah,
I think that's probably right. I mean it's it's it's
the two sides of that, which is like it's a
systemic problem, but systems are just groups of people doing

(45:28):
shipped to other groups of people. And like one way
to help fix that of as an individual is to
just try to undo some of that totally. And like
like I don't know, if you like walk into your
house and it's trashed totally, wasn't you? I swear? And
like you just gotta start cleaning. You know, it's like,

(45:50):
all right, just pick up one thing, and then the
next thing and then the next thing. Yeah exactly. Um,
you know, and then you also have to figure out
the stems that were allowing your yeah exactly. So anyway,
the anti nuke movement, all these things coming together. I
really like when different different groups with different ideologies get
together and figure out what they can do together and

(46:13):
where their strength overlap. And so that's and and how
you get food not bombs, this global movement out of
this melting pot or you know whatever, chemical pit, mortar
and puzzle. I'm not very good at alchemy. Um. I
have not successfully turned lead into stone, lead into gold.

(46:34):
I don't even know what I'm supposed to turn lead into.
I'm gonna continue with the script gold. Yes, that's it.
You don't need that lead, um, oh my god. Okay,
but when we start our work around AMMO Factory and
we use it to fund food for everyone, we can
have the slogan turning lead into gold because we make money. Yeah,

(46:56):
I thought you were going the other way. We're turning
gold into lead. Both points. Okay, that's actually a better direction.
All right, you should be in charge of that figuring
out what we're doing. Okay, so yeah, I can see
other stuff to do. Okay, I wouldn't be good. You

(47:17):
don't want me, alright, alright, fine, we'll find someone else, Sophie.
All right, Anderson. Maybe Sophie kick in my head person.
I mean, she doesn't have thumbs, but she would give
it her best. Ever. Well, that's our Our logo is

(47:39):
just Anderson's face. Anderson is a dog. For anyone who's listening.
She just gave me the best side eye a dog
could give. Like, I was like, is that true? That's
what you're doing on your free time? And she was like,
uh huh, so I guess it's true. All right. So

(48:04):
back to honestly, back in the early eighties, Food not
Bombs is at every protest, including anti nuclear activism, against
the war on drugs. They're working against all the factory
that the US is getting up to in Central America. Basically,
they're part of every movement that anyone who is paying
attention in the nineteen eighties would be part of. And

(48:26):
and this part is important to write that they fed protests.
You know, we talked about this a bit before, right that,
like it's mutualate is this act of solidarity, um, because
it's it's sharing things, because sharing things is good, because
we should take care of each other. And there's like
this reciprocity implied in mutual aid. And actually a lot
of the older definitions of mutual aid are actually um
like mutual aid societies where everyone like pools their money

(48:47):
and take care of each other. It's actually where like
modern insurance comes from, and all this ship um like yeah,
basically like you you join a society, yeah, yeah, but
but this mutual late it's it doesn't certainly imply a
one to one. It's not I scratch your back and
you scratch mine. And so the mutual aated food not bombs.
Is I'm human, your human. Let's take care of each other.
I got all those extra food. I cooked it up

(49:09):
for me and my friends. You can come to you know,
um and a lot of the people, more than other
organizations that I've seen that do this. It's not perfect
or utopian. Then it's never always right, but it's like
a lot of the people who come to eat end
up winding wind up cooking and organizing as well, because
it's so participatory and they've done two things intertwined for

(49:30):
forty plus years. First it feeds hungry people, and second
it's better movement and just basically allows these social movements
to exist. You know, like when when I was a
full time activist, when I was sick, I would go
to activist doctors. When I needed shelter, I would squat buildings,
or I would stay in people's backyards or basements or
wherever people could find shelter for me while it's in

(49:52):
town for a protest or whatever. And and when we
needed food, there's food, not bombs. Uh. Sometimes in some
cities there be four or five of days a week
that you could go to food nut bombs and get
a hot meal and groceries to take home, and anyone
who comes you're treated like a person instead of like
sort of like lots of other groups feed and that's cool,
but there's like a scale of how inclusive it feels.

(50:15):
Like when you show up and they're like, here's your number.
Make sure you sit at least thirty feet away from me,
because I don't like looking at you. You know. Yeah, yeah,
that's like, oh God, I mean that's such like it's
so like I just I can't even figure out, like
the what I'm saying, but it is just the thing

(50:38):
where you're like, yeah, you see that, and yeah, maybe
this is again me me now having spent more time
on Skin Road than I had, you know, prior in
the last like two years. But it is like, and
I'm sure every every bit of like you know, I roll,
I feel like watching some other groups, I'm like I

(50:59):
have in that person. So I'm trying not to just
be like like you know, Kate keeping or a dick
about it at all. It is so you're just like,
oh my god, yeah, all those things that you see,
it's like almost and not always without malice, but often
it's like not even with malice, it's just like, you know,
you don't know how to if you're not sort of

(51:22):
comfortable or fluent in in what folks need and want,
and you know, you know, there's and there's elements too
of just like what I'm giving you something you know
that I think you see, like you should be greatful
that is like so like yeah, yeah, and it's like
and sometimes it sucks, right, Like you give someone something
and they're like, well, I want another one, and I'm like,

(51:43):
I wish you appreciated that I had made this for you,
you know, and like because like sometimes it's like, well,
you also want to be seen as human and now
I walked through my life and I'm seeing as human
on a fairly regular basis as compared to the person
who I'm offering this thing too. But yeah, like it
you know, yeah, it's it's it's all a scale and
like I'm not trying to knock people who, you know.

(52:03):
It's like and even the like, the line between charity
and mutual aid is not this like impassable gulf with
two completely different ideas on each side. It's like it's
a spectrum and like we should all look at trying
to increase other people's agencies and create mutual aid, you know.
But it's like but also just like fucking go out

(52:24):
there and try and help people have better lives and
then figure it out, I don't know, like whatever, Yeah, yeah,
I think hopefully the good version of this is people
get there no matter what. And then another another thing
that sort of ties into this like movement building version
of mutual aid really quickly that I is not really

(52:44):
included in this episode, will have his own episode, i'm sure,
is the Black Panther's Breakfast Program, that they did, you know,
And there's this famous thing that the Black Panthers. One
of the most radical things they did, and actually one
of the things that, if I believe, even the FBI
said was one of the most dangerous things they did,
was that they fed people. They fed kids before they

(53:05):
went to school, and like, and that's a movement feeding itself,
you know, even though it's like, I mean, the kids
aren't the activists, but like whatever, Like, I don't know.
So this is what they're doing in Boston at this point.
This is not spread yet. And there's one little tiny
anecdote that I think is just like cute and funny
about them. Okay, So this is the Pepsi challenge, right,

(53:26):
and I think this is this thing that only exists
in the eighties, but I was like looking it up
for this episode. Apparently it's like still ongoing. I don't know. Um, Okay,
So there's a Pepsi challenge where you're like supposed to
drink pepsi versus coke and a blind taste test. Sophie's
looking at the scripting like where is this ship going? Yeah,
because this is a thing again. This is a thing again.
It's all over you would that you would not know this, Margaret,

(53:48):
because it is very pop cultrue. But it's a whole
thing right now where there's a bunch of people and
they take, you know, diet coke, diet pepsi coke, pepsi
cokes are all the things, and they put it, they
put all the cans or whatever, and then the person
drinking it can't take it, and people are like trying
to be like, no, I know what the real one is,

(54:10):
and like most of the time they get it wrong. Yeah,
so it's yeah, no, that's like a viral trend right now,
and on trend by accident, for some reason, I get those,
which is like, why, okay, apparently that's something I'm super
into and now we're talking about it on Cool. People
did question maybe maybe the algorithm wrote this episode. Maybe

(54:34):
I'm the algorithm, I'm the machine. Are you the algorithm? Machine?
I knew it. Yeah, that's where you're so angry against me.
It's a raging against joke. That's a band I've heard of,
even though the pop culture I'm joking. I'm okay. So
the pepsi challenge has been going on since the seventies.
The least important thing that's ever happened in the history

(54:55):
of the universe. You got the cola Wars between coke
and pepsi. So Pepsi is setting up tents and doing
this blind taste test and they probably there's like different
ideas of how they like make it so that they
win all the time, um, you know. And one one
claim is that they basically put out like fizzy pepsi
and flat coke and they set up right next to

(55:18):
the Food Not Bombs tent in Harvard Square and so
and they keep doing this and the food Nut Bombs
is like, oh my god, we hate this so much.
This is the nineteen eighties, Like anti corporate branding is
like their thing, right and um, and so they hate
this so much. So what they do is they go
home and then they come back and they have the

(55:38):
Tofu Challenge where they make smoothies with tofu in them,
and they offer people free smoothies with tofu in them.
And I hope they made them taste okay, because you
can have a tasty tofu smoothie. It's just that sounds
like some ship. So my my brother has was like

(56:00):
plant based for about ten years. When he started medical school,
he stopp being it because I'm just air it out
his life. He stopped being able to digest meat. He
can digest meat again. He kept trying to trick me
into eating tofu, Like he would be like, isn't that delicious?
And then and then and like his good he'd be like,
it's tofu, and like I wouldn't know. So I had

(56:22):
like major like trust issues vegans for a minute because
he'd be like, isn't that delicious? It's not actually cheese.
It's like, yeah, I I know you sprinkled it from
like a little container. Like I'm a very aware that
that is not cheese on the thing you're calling pizza anyways,

(56:44):
But yeah, tofu smoothie, delicious, hot. I'm not believing, not
believing you. Here's my pitch. Half a block of tofu,
a tablespoon or two of cocoa, some protein powder if
you feel like you want protein powder, and then a
bunch of maple syrup and so some almond milk if
you need to. You kind of just gotta make it.
Make it. Yeah, it's like for texture. Still Now all right, well,

(57:08):
everyone don't believe you will try it. I'll try it
because you're telling me what it is before giving it
to me, and they're not going hot tofu or whatever
the but yeah, so it's a smoothie with no fruit.
What's happening. So it's actually more like like the first
time I did it, it's like chocolate. It's actually if

(57:30):
you have if you have a food processor and I don't,
you don't have to add the almond milk and then
it's like a moose texture, um, and you just have
to add enough sugar so it tastes good because the
texture is fine. Um, mine are a little bit more smooth.
You can also, I mean it's just that I think
you might be thinking of a different tofu, Sophie. It's
it's more like that very silk and stuff, a B

(57:53):
C D type place. So once you that's fair, well,
well you can go like with the smooth just you know,
tricked and eating tofu won too many times. I didn't
eat tofu for the first like two years I was
vegan because when I was a teenager, I went to
a salad bar and was like, I will try tofu
and it was just a block of unseasoned tofu. Yeah,

(58:14):
it's horrible. It was one of the worst things I've ever,
if you don't know how to take tofu, and that's
how that's what you think tofu? Is it tastes horrible?
But cooked tofu done correctly and marinated and seasoned, and
you know, actually it's delightful, especially in a soup or stew.
And so what I wonder and I think the most

(58:34):
important decision before we can decide whether the Fun Bombs
original crew was good or bad, it was whether or
not they made good tofu and fed it to people,
or whether they made bad tofu and fed it to people,
because they could go either way. Yeah, it was definitely.
I'm gonna I'm gonna say that I would find it
bad pretty confident. I think you're probably right, especially when
you're right next to fucking Like. I don't drink some

(58:56):
of this isn't like purity thing. I do all kinds
of bad things for my body. But like, but if
if someone was like, does this taste better? Is this
taste better? And one of them is soda, and one
of them is like random tofu smoothie, I bet my
money is on the soda. There's no Yeah, it's pretty unlikely,
but they scared away the pepsi people, and I suspect

(59:19):
it was more to do with the fact that they
were probably like cussing Outam and yelling at them all
the time than the tofu. That's yeah, that's I mean,
that's like kind of a nice victory. Yeah, And that's
what I'm going to end today's today's episode where we
can you know, there's hippies feeding Boston healthy food and
I hope it's tasty, but who knows. And you know,

(59:43):
they get more and more interesting to me as they spread. Um,
And that's what we're gonna talk about next time. The
and the massive and sort of unfammable repression that they
faced for giving out free food all takers. That's yeah.
This is a good a good place to put up
os and then hear the other side, Sophy. Do you

(01:00:04):
have any plugs? Uh? Yeah, listen to Okay, listen to
Hood Politics with Prop on the Cool Zone Media network
wherever you get your podcasts. That's that's the podcast of
my choice to plug right now, and just like follow
Prop in general because he's the best at prop hit pop.
That is all I would like to plug at this time. Andrew,

(01:00:26):
oh god, I mean, you know, if you've enjoyed even
this amount come out UM Austin August and Brooklyn September ten.
UM doing that with the oss racist me and Tanny Knew.
So we're gonna be there. So far, we just did
one show in Boston and I ate a lobster roll
on stage in uh Many people in the audience said

(01:00:50):
it was one of the worst things they've ever seen,
So challenge. You just sold that for me. The way
I did it was Margeret, you have a book coming out,
don't you. I do on September twenty, my book of
short fiction. Cool people who did? That's my podcast Live

(01:01:10):
like that. That's the other podcast. We won't be here tomorrow.
There it is. We'll be out from a K Press
on September twenty, and you can pre order it now
and if you pre order through different independent bookstores. If
you just google we won't be here tomorrow, Market Hilder
pre order or whatever. You probably don't need that many words.
It'll come up if you order it through UM different
independent bookstores, including several cooperatives. So this wasn't an episode

(01:01:33):
about cooperatives, but they're cool anyway. You will get an
art print from the book, which is also cool. That's
the end. Yea, see you see We'll be back. We
won't see you, but we'll be back on Wednesday with
another episode and ship. This is an audio medium. Get
it Together Okay, Bye bye. Cool People Who Did Cool

(01:01:58):
Stuff is a production of Cool Media. More podcasts on
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