Part One: The Civil War Within the Civil War: How the South Won the War for the Union

Margaret talks with Prop about how people escaping slavery turned the tide of the American Civil War and how the South was anything but united.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Blow and Welcome to Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff,
which is, of course, the only podcast that clearly says
what it's about in the title, leaves no room at
all for confusion about its contents. I'm your host, Margaret Killjoy,
and each week I'm gonna bring you another story about rebellion,
resistance and all the cool people who did cool stuff.
My my guest this week is Prop, who I believe

(00:22):
you're a poet and m C and activist and you're
also the host of Hood Politics. Nailed it great. How
are you doing today? Man? I'm all right, I'm it's
pretty hot out here. I'm I'm good, you know, I'm
I'm I'm I'm apprehensive because I'm so nervous about any uh,
any pod that somebody says is like it's kind of

(00:44):
like bastards, you know. I'm like, but reverse, and I'm like,
I don't. I'm just nervous. I'm going I'm coming in blind,
you know, I'm saying, Margaret, But I'm I'm here for
the ride. All right, all right, And we have Sophie
on the call to Sophie, how are you doing. I'm good,
I'm I did it to have Prop here for this one.
I think I think he'll enjoy it. And I mean
that like, I'll actually think you'll enjoy this to when

(01:08):
you're on bastards from like, oh there's going to be
a good one, which means it's not going to be
a good one. Yeah, which means oh, you're gonna enjoy this.
And I'm like, oh yeah, murder, murder, murder, racism, enjoy it.
So and so, Margaret, what are we talking about today? Well,
there is there is murdering racism there, but but it's
not from the point of view of the people who

(01:30):
do the murder and the races. Okay, okay, okay, So
because this week we're going to talk about this war
you might have heard of, called the Civil War, the
US Civil War, but specifically yeah, yeah, but specifically I'm
going to talk about the civil war within the civil war, okay, which,
if you write it out and you put it in between,
is the civil civil war war. And I'm going to

(01:53):
talk about Well done, Thank you yall pause for that.
That was great. I am now impressed. Like again, I was,
I was apprehensive. I know what I was getting into.
But the civil civil war war, that's brilliant. Yeah, I
like that, thank you. And so we're going to talk
about the basically how there was a Civil war. Within

(02:18):
the Civil War, there was a race in a class
revolt against the white Confederates and and so in the
first half, we're gonna talk about the ways that a
lot of different black people in the South for their
own freedom, whether under the U. S. Flag or not
under the U. S. Flag. And we're gonna talk about
how the South wasn't a unified place and support of
the Confederacy, and how all types of people from the

(02:39):
South basically we're like, well, fuck this Confederacy thing and
fought against it. And in the second half, we're gonna
talk about the Lowry Gang who are an indigenous led
guerilla insurgency in North Carolina. Let's go, all right, let's go.
I also, do you know what, I'm glad I'm on this, uh,

(02:59):
you know, for a number of reasons, but one I
think it's like, obviously it's so timely with like you know,
adding Ukraine to the list of like conflicts and wars
across the world right now. But like the idea that
like you can't just you know, say, it's not like
everybody in Russia is down with this, you know what

(03:20):
I'm saying. And it's like it's good to remember that
when you start, like, you know, making your like sort
of American versions of like good guys and bad guys
to be like, yo, do you agree with everything in
your country? Do so? Why you think? Why you think
anywhere else would be the same, you know what I'm saying,
like or would it be the same, Like everybody ain't

(03:40):
down with what you know they government do or what
they sidhe do. Like so I think that this is
I'm glad that this is coming up because that mugg
is like, like, yo, like be realistic about what you're watching.
You know what I'm saying. And it's that like, oh man,
think China really think China loves China, you know what
I'm saying, Like they gonna do what we where. It's
like I'm not gonna let you talk about is but

(04:03):
you know what I'm saying, But not its food beyond
some bullshit you know anyway, No, no, and like and
it's even true on the other side too, right, like
because the North was not like I mean, you got
the bad guys in this story the Confederacy or the course,
like I'm not going sending anything else other than that.
But the North is like, well some of them are
good guys and the assholes too, you know, yeah, yeah,

(04:24):
just because you lived up there. You know what I'm
saying that somehow, yo locale means that you think differently,
like nah man, yeah, yeah. So the So the Civil War,
it runs from eighteen sixty one eighteen sixty five. It
kills six twenty thousand people, which to put that number
in perspective, that's half again as many Americans died in
World War two, or two thirds as many as have

(04:47):
died from COVID as of the time we're recording this.
She's but Civil War starts because eighteen sixty Abraham Lincoln
got elected on a new States out West shouldn't be
Slave States platform arm and a bunch of rich white
people in the slave States didn't like that, so they succeeded.
The North said, now you're not allowed to do that
in the eighteen sixty one nin a war. And to

(05:09):
be to be clear, and I don't know what did
you get taught growing up that the Civil War was
about slavery? Well, yes, I mean I'm remember I'm a Californian.
So the black panther from the inner City. So I
absolutely was taught this was about slaves. That's that is
better than the education I received, dude, I tell you man.

(05:31):
Like when I heard people like it was like, it's
the other way around, where like you know, obviously from
your section, like for somebody to you to become a
full grown adult and somebody would be like, no, it's
about slavery, and how y'all probably like in y'all's area,
was like, what, No, it's about states rights. Like I
felt the other way around when somebody actually said what

(05:52):
was about sayings like what what are you talking about?
Like I who told you that states writes to do what?
This is a big question that Like that's what I
was thinking. I was like, you hear yourself rights to own?
So they don't you serious? You know? Yeah? And so
I will argue that the entire South, white and black

(06:13):
news about slavery. Then the North wasn't sure about what
it was about. For a lot of the North, a
lot of the white North and obviously all the black North,
A lot of the white North news about slavery, but
some of the white North was was fighting for like
you're not allowed to break away? Fuck you, and some
of them were even arguing. I've read some scholars arguing
that some of them were fighting to free the poor

(06:34):
whites in the South. But the Confederates knew what the
funk they were fighting for. They were fighting for slavery.
There's there's no question they didn't know. Yea. So the
start of this war, the Confederates, they're outnumbered, just proof
that just because you're the underdog doesn't make you a
better person. They have little industrial production, so they can't
make their own weapons really, but they have this advantage

(06:55):
that they're fighting on their home territory, and then since
their population is more rural, more of the soldiers come in,
better horse riders and better shots. So they have some advantages.
But they have one big disadvantage because their entire economy.
You probably know this, and probably the audience knows this.
The entire economy of the South relied on slavery and

(07:18):
repressing people. It turns out takes constant attention. Yes, and
all their best fighters suddenly went off to war. Yes.
So this is going to bring us to a woman
named Rose from South Carolina. And so at the beginning
of the war, the Union didn't let black folks in

(07:39):
his soldiers. Right. Um, but it turns out you don't
actually need anyone's permission to kill slavers or steal all
their ship, or grind their combatle halt, or help everyone
run the funk away. You could just do it. It's
cool and good, it is always morally correct. Yeah, and
so people realized that it was actually this this woman Rose.

(07:59):
She's one of my favorite stories in all of us,
but she's actually one of the hardest to get any
information about. This Historian Favolia Glimph is the only historian
I found who's collected information about this woman because the
only primary sources we have are all of the terrified
white women writing in their diaries. How fucking scared they
are of this woman named Rose. That story name is like,

(08:24):
it's so classic, it is so Yeah, it's perfect name,
Fivolia Glimph, you said, yeah, perfect name. Yeah. Well, I
was never gonna want to put a pin in her
name too, so I'm glad you did self, because that's
that's quite a name. Also, terrified why women journals is
like the thing that just doesn't die. It really doesn't. God.

(08:49):
They seriously like all their journals are like I can't
sleep at night. I'm up at four am writing this
note because I'm so terrified of the Negroes and the Yankees,
and specifically I'm afraid of this you know Rose that
was leading an insurrection in their town. Uh so so Pineville,
South Carolina, is this like small resort town. It's basically
sixty summer homes for like the rich fox slavers when

(09:11):
they're like taking breaks from their plantations. But with the
Civil War, a lot of the families moved their full
time and basically saw this place of refuge against to
hide from the war. And they tried to bring like
all the people they claim to own, but most of
them were like, no, we're not gonna come with you.
Fuck you. You have no means with which to compel
us to come with you, So funk off the oversea

(09:33):
going at war. Yeah you you ninety two years old
and your wife Keith catching the vapers every time it
gets too hot. No, we're not going. I love it.
And some people did go, and then they kind of
just didn't work. Uh More and more everyone who went
there just refused to work. And then this was happening

(09:55):
all over the South. I want to use this. This
is one of my examples because it ties into this
other thing. The a socialist author W. E. B. Two Boys,
is the first person I've heard of really talk about
this in his book Black Reconstruction. Basically, he claims that
the thing that won the Civil War was the most
powerful general strike the US has ever seen, which was

(10:18):
the Confederate economy was just completely gutted. As black workers,
as he refers to them as black workers withhold their
labor from the Confederates and then offer it for a
wage to the union. And half a million black workers
ended up working for a wage at union camps. And then,
I mean, under really shitty conditions that we're gonna get
into this. But yeah, I think that I think that,

(10:41):
like I'm I'm glad you kind of like like landing
there because I think like the uh, you know, when
you think about the ark of somebody like in Abraham
Lincoln and the ark of like the country finally falling
into secession and then accepting the fact that like, okay,
this is about slaves, like like finally letting themselves it
out loud, like what we are. You know what I'm saying.

(11:03):
When you you you take a slaver. That was like,
I mean, it's just it's just way too much money
on the table. Like I'm being as obviously, I'm like,
this is me being a slave descendant, just understanding like
what's happening in this moment in time when you're like looking, man,
that that cotton crop like it, I mean you're talking
about the the the entire like makes more than every

(11:25):
other commodity in the country combined, like when you add
it all together just from that because you ain't paying
the workers. You know what I'm saying, this is this
is pure profit. You know what I'm saying. You know,
notwithstanding the investment to get the get and feed as
small as you can, you know, the slaver, the slave
that you had, and you could take somebody who might

(11:47):
have been in the beginning like on some like a yeah,
I know, I just kind of like close my eyes
and do it. I mean that kind of sucks, but
I'm like, I'm just one guy. I mean, you know,
you're in the ocean. You might as well swim. I mean,
it's explit like Salona morning, you know what I'm saying.
And then at first check come and you're like, nah,
fam na as muck. Look you can't get it. Look,
I'm look, I'm sorry, sorry, not sorry, you know what

(12:09):
I'm saying. Like, and how that evolution of just being
like and then then the whole like, well, it's it's
too big to fail, Like I mean, it's you know,
if we shut this down, you shut down the whole country.
Like there's no, it's the biggest what do you want
us to do? Do you just the biggest money maker?
You know what I'm saying. Um, And that evolution of
like assuming that at some point, like you said, my

(12:32):
ancestors would be like, uh nah, yeah, I mean, what
worse can you do to us? Yeah? You know yeah? No,
And and two boys makes the argument I have no counterargument.
I believe this who heartily. This is what fucking wins
the war in the end, more than anything else. Yeah,
black workers refusing to to work, also black soldiers fighting,

(12:54):
but black soldiers, yeah, in and in it and being
still paid less, less food, still being treated like you know,
you're not really human. But h but Carrie in the work,
you know what I'm saying. But yeah, like absolutely who
was being like, well, get you in your pocket? Yeah,
And in the end, as so people would flee, especially

(13:15):
once as the Union would come through the South, they'd
be like, yep, and they crossed the lines. In the end, uh,
apparently twelve percent of the South labor pool, I guess
you could call it. They just funk off and they
cross the Union lines. But then further historians have have
argued that it's not just the people who left, who
did this work, who did this general strike. So in Pineville,

(13:35):
South Carolina, it's happening everywhere. It's happening everywhere, but with
folks on Pineville, South Carolina, and the in eighteen sixty five,
in the very last months of the war, this woman
named Rose is an enslaved house servant. She has at
least two grown up kids. It's very little known about it, right,
but she frees herself and then she doesn't funk off
across the Union lines. She sticks around to help fight
and organize. And she was probably the leader of the

(13:58):
insurrection along with her son Pringle. And we know that
what Pringle. Yeah, man's name is. Yeah, I looked it
up at way pre dates Pringles. Yeah, I was gonna
again another name that I was like, I'm gonna let
this pass because he let a slave revolt. So I'm
not gonna drag you. I'm not gonna drag right like

(14:19):
I think it's yea yeah, it's like, you know, two
hundred years later, the association with the chips. You know
what I'm saying. But he could say my name is
Pringle because I get all the chips. You know what
I'm saying. Yeah, I made him a rapper. You did,
you did? I appreciate it. So so this insurrection they lead,

(14:39):
it leads hundreds of people to safety during the time
before the Union army even approaches. And then by the
time at one point the Union army like sweeps through
really quickly. They don't actually conquer the area, but they
get a thousand people across the line when that happens.
And then it's hard to tell how much it was
a quiet insurruction versus a loud one. A lot of
it was that people just refused works, slowed down. A

(15:01):
lot of them gave themselves quotas like I'm gonna do
half a task per day, so they were like working
just fast enough. And then yeah, and there's no one
around to compel their labor, right because all the all
the white dudes are off fighting the war, and at
the at its peak, this insurrection has the run of
the town. The scared white folks hide in their houses

(15:21):
and writing their journals while black folks are drilling in
the streets and military formation, and they stole whatever they
needed from the people who've been stealing from them their
whole fucking lives. And it's just kept spreading miles and
miles in every direction. People kept coming here, and eventually
Confederate armies like, all right, we have to do something
about this, and so they send these these scouts who

(15:42):
are the guerrilla troops for the Confederate Army. The Union
Army has scouts too, but the official gorillas, and they
go around do the dirty work. And so they round
up and kill a bunch of the leaders this insurrection.
They don't get pringle or rows yet, and they force
everyone back to work, and this kind of turns into
this attracted, slow guerrilla war between the scouts and the insurrection,

(16:04):
and eventually it keeps going on long enough that the
Confederate Army is to send an entire company of cavalry,
which is like a hundred cavalrymen could have been off
fighting the war, and instead of to keep going to
fight this civil war happening within the South. They have
a big battle. It goes really badly for Rose and
Pringle and the rest of them. Thirty of them die
and they they only managed to injure some of the cavalrymen,

(16:27):
and Pringle and Rose get get found and executed. But
but even though they lose this specific battle, this is
after they've freed you know, the record I see is
like implying at least people, right, and yeah, like yeah,
that seems like an alright, you know, like the math

(16:49):
and I'm and I'm positive that like I know, like, um,
those executions were berutal. Yeah, like they were like trying
to you know, they try to make a statement when
they capture somebody that like lit you know, um, other
people to freedom. So I already know, like, even without
knowing her particular story, already know the way they killed

(17:10):
them them too was public and disgusting. Yeah, yeah, it was,
And which I mean leads to the argument that dying
in the streets fighting, you know, seems nice. It's still
pretty rad like it just yeah, and then so the
and the Union Army of course it doesn't have their
backs at all. Uh, there's Lincoln's like Rules of War

(17:33):
that he wrote specifically called this type of thing. It's
qualified the same as piracy or banditry. But they still
do all this awesome ship. Yeah, so let's go. And
speaking of Pringle and potato chips, I'm trying to get
sponsored by really wholesome products on this show. And so

(17:55):
our official sponsor, I believe, our only official sponsor all
the other adds you here on official and they're not allowed,
is potatoes. The concept of potatoes. I'll take that because,
like you know, I just I just listened to three
hours on a potato famine. So how good potatoes are?

(18:16):
You know? And I am a French fry connoisseur. All right,
so I'm here for that. Well you're on the right show, then, yes, yes,
all right, here's some ads and we're back after those
ads that were not about some I hope most of

(18:37):
them are about potatoes. I hope they're potatoes. Let me
tell you something, man, I'm gonna invoke something right now
that's probably not fair. The thing is, like, okay, I
am fully aware of the totality of the problematic nous
of somewhere like a Chick fil a m. However, crossed
my feet. At some point was this person with two

(18:59):
buckets a French of like the cris cut fries, and
I was like, that's an immediate retweet. I'm like, this
is all I saw. I just saw fries and my
eyes glazed over where I was just like, oh my god, buckets,
let's go. And then I was like, damn, man, I know,
I know it's I know, I know, I know. It's okay,

(19:20):
guys like, hear me out though, I know it's chick filate,
but it's not the potatoes fault, you know, but it
ain't the potato fault. Yeah, you understand I'm saying. I'm like,
they pay whale, the place pay whale, Okay, Okay, anyway, yeah,
all right. So the next next chunk of the story

(19:41):
is about a man named Abraham Galloway okay, and he
and the Coastal the Coastal Black Militia in North Carolina,
and we've got way more information about him, in part
because he survives the war, which is a nice anti
spoiler alert, you know, like he's noted during the story
at least not were done with the story. As the

(20:01):
downside is, right with bastards, you have this part where
you're like, all this bad stuff is happening, but then
they die in the end and you're happy that they Yeah,
and then with cool people hit cool stuff, they die
in the end. Um, it's not as good. That's history.
So Abraham Galloway he was born enslaved in a tiny
fishing town near Wilmington, North Carolina, and he was he

(20:24):
was owned by his own second cousin. Yeah, he moved
to wilmington' he becomes a brickmaker and basically his fucking
cousin tells him that he has to go work and
give him the money. And but Wilmington is a hotbed
of abolitionism, which is which I'm not talking about. Like
like when I got told about abolitionism when I was

(20:46):
in public school or whatever, I got told it was
like well meaning white people who like wrote the government
about how morality demanded the end of slavery or whatever. Yeah,
Wilmington was a hotbed of abolition And by that I
mean it was full of black people free and enslaved,
who are teaching black people how to read and write,
who are smuggling fugitives north, who are passing around tracks
that called for the moral necessity of violence to end slavery,

(21:10):
including this this tract by black abolitionist David Walker to
the Colored citizens of the World, which and this is
a reoccurring theme, and all the abolition is propaganda I've
ever seen, specifically includes the need for the rights of
women also and so, and this is the pamphlet that
basically Nat Turner's thirty one Rebellion gets blamed on. And
so David Walker might have written it in Boston, but

(21:32):
he was born in Wilmington's which is where our heroes
is currently. He's twenty years old, it's eighteen fifty seven.
He decides to get the funk out he was. He
was nervous that he was going to get sold further south.
So his friend Richard Eden, decides to come with. Richard
was a barber who had just gotten busted for daring
to marry a free mixed race woman who so he
was facing the lash and he's like, yeah, funk this,

(21:54):
I'm getting out. And it was hard to get out.
Anyone who was caught helping them would have been killed
or sold. One anti slavery ring that had just been
busted right before this or around that time, the the
Black Pilot got sold further south, which was like one
of the main threats that people would face. And the
white Quaker who was involved in the whole thing also

(22:15):
as a pilot, got murdered. Yea, so, but they eventually
they do find a pilot who will sneak them onto
the boat and off they go. They make it to Philly.
They join up with the Vigilance Society there, which is
a crew of abolitionist who fed and housed and generally
helped fugitives. The fugitive, say, Slave Law of eighteen fifty
means that even the Free States weren't free for fugitives, right,

(22:36):
Bounty hunters could just show up and yeah, yeah, And
so they keep going right because the North isn't even safe.
They make it up to Canada with train tickets that
the Society buys them, and they once they're up there,
the abolitionists give them room and board and find them work.
Galloway gets a job, Lane brick Eating gets to open
a barber shop. I just like including Eat and he

(22:57):
kind of disappears from the story here, but I'm glad
he gets to go fucking be a free barber. You know, yes, yes,
But Abraham Galloway, he didn't want to lay bricks, not really,
he wanted to destroy slavery. So he goes back across Yeah, exactly, Yeah,
and I'm sure he got the chance. Yeah, he goes

(23:18):
back across the border, and he starts giving speeches and
then getting in fights with all the people trying to
kill him. Um, and then I knew. I knew his
name before. I was like, I know Abraham Galloway, and
now now you're at the part that I know him. Yeah, okay, anyway,
go on. Yeah. Yeah. So in in Boston, he hangs
out with the Vigilant Society, and then he hangs out
with this this league I've never heard of before. He
did this research. I've ever heard of, the Anti Man

(23:39):
Hunting League. Yes, these people fucking rule. So dope, yeah,
tell him about him. I'm leaning back. Let you tell
the story. Yeah, No, these fools are hard. So it's
a crew of people who are basically like, all right, well,
kidnappers keep coming here and kidnapping people, right, so we
should just track down the kidnappers and then kidnap them. Basically,

(24:01):
they show up and basically they're dealers. They'll find they'll
find a bounty hunter, and they'll be like, hey, you
would be so much happier and healthier if you just
left Boston right now. So that's what they did. It
was so dope. It was so fools were just like, hey, listen,
don't come to Boston. Tell you right now, don't come

(24:24):
to Boston. We body snatchers, all right, don't come. Oh
you're gonna come, okay, cool? Yeah, we told you it
would happen. I told you not to come. Fan. Yeah.
And so, so the reason that this league starts as
another interesting story. Four, you have a guy named Anthony
Burns who also decided to funk off from slavery, and
he gets smuggled up to Boston and because of the

(24:45):
fugitive slave law, marshals come after him and he gets
arrested and a crew of black and white abolitionists stormed
the courthouse. They break down the door with a battering
ram and then shoot a federal marshal dead. Let's go,
and then they get They eventually get repelled apparently I
think they have to call him the army or some ship. Yeah,
and so, so Burns gets returned to slavery, but for

(25:07):
a moment and as he's being like marched out of
town fifty thou people in Boston come out to like
really aggressively protest his capture. Yeah, and I I don't
have in front of me the population of Boston at
the time, but the population of the United States was
not particularly large back then anyway. Yeah. Yeah. It's also

(25:28):
I love this because it's like, you know, a lot
of times when you flatten history, you just think, like,
you know, these two armies and you have citizens just
kind of like sitting around waiting to see what happens,
you know, especially like this the American slave narrative. That
was like, well, I guess we were just on the
fields hoping everything worked out, you know what I'm saying.

(25:49):
Totally Nah, I'm like, yeah's fighting. Yeah yeah, so I
gave us a green light. It was like all right,
it's so we're gonna do our best, you know. No,
that's fucking exactly it. And like, um, okay, so this
change is Boston overnight. And then that's how they pass
all these laws making it harder to to come and

(26:11):
capture people. But just in case people try it anyway,
you have the Anti Man Hunting League that starts up
with this and then burns himself. The abolitionists raise up
enough money to to buy him his freedom. He goes
to college, he becomes a minister, and then, because it
was the nineteenth century, he dies of tuberculosis. Like fucking
everyone else when he dies of tuberculosis. Life before penicillin. Dog,

(26:34):
These dudes be living triple lives in one life. And
then and then you die at after all that. Yeah,
I'm thirty gonna haven't touched a quarter of what this person.
Do you understand what I'm saying. I'm like that you
did all that? Okay? Yeah, so so so Galloway, he's

(26:56):
passing through Boston on his way to Haiti because the abolitionists,
right after the after John Brown gets executed, they're not
just like waiting around for the US to get its
act together to abolish slavery. They had to Haiti and
they organized. They're organizing a raid from Haiti on the
American South, hoping to directly incite a civil war to
end slavery. So so Galloway takes passage alongside some mother abolitionists,

(27:20):
including this the Scottish immigrant named James Redpath, who helps
secure Haiti's diplomatic connections to the US. This guy Francis Miriam,
who was one of the only people to escape from
John Brown's Harper's Ferry raid, who later fled to Canada
with the help of Parau. Because everyone was actually doing
all kinds of weird ship at the time. The abolitionist

(27:40):
they show up in Haiti, they're received by by Haiti's
president because all of Haiti fucking declares three days a
morning when John Brown is killed. And it it's not
just because they I mean, they fucking hate slavery, right,
this is the history of Haiti. But it's not just
that because they're also looking out for their own country.
Because in the eighteen fifties, the US drew up plans
to canker Haiti and turn it into a slave state,

(28:02):
and then some adventurer Asshoile tried to conquer Cuba to
turn it into a slave state. Around that time, another
one fucking actually conquered Nicaragua for a moment until the
people down there murdered him and didn't let him turn
it into a slave state. Perfect. Yeah, And I was
the ones gonna say, man, I don't know, like what
made him think. I don't know why you would want
it with Haiti. If you didn't read. If you know

(28:22):
anything about their history, it's like, nah, f am, don't
don't come try to it down here. Yeah, you know,
we don't. Won't play down here, don't don't. Don't bring
it down your fan. Yeah. Um. And so so Galloway
stays in Haiti for a while planning this raid, but
then the South seceeds and so he hurries the funk
back to States to fight, because that was the whole point,

(28:44):
was to try and get a civil war. And you know,
but it didn't take invading the South. All you had
to do to start a civil war apparently was to
get a moderate Republican named Lincoln in offense. He was
a moderate and like yo, like uh, the Apple TV

(29:04):
just did like for Black History, did a dope little
three part series on him. Um yeah, it's called The
Lincoln Dilemma, which was really more about Frederick Douglas and
how like really that Frederick Douglas kind of radicalized him.
That was like that, like the and just sort of
the evolution of um this, like you said, rather Khaki,

(29:27):
you know, moderate Republican turning into this like oh yeah no,
we gotta we can't. This can't last. You know what
I'm saying, and it was really Frederick Douglas, so that's
but yeah, yeah, and what took them to finally leave
was the just slightly a little less tiny less racist

(29:47):
yeah yeah, yeah, which has no i mean, living in
the US now, it's impossible to imagine the right wing
getting a moderate yeah yeah, right by like just the
the just vitamin D milk version, just the most plain
saltine cracker, no seasoned fried chicken, undercooked, like just just

(30:15):
potato salad with raisin. I'm sorry, but yeah, yeah, the
most basic, yeah, moderates and they can't handle it, So
they have a whole they can't handle it. Yeah, yes,
which good, It got them fucking crushed. I'm glad. But yeah.
So so Galloway he shows back up in the US

(30:37):
and he's like, all right, he gets himself recruited into
the spy service for the U. S. Army and he's
not really a union guy, but it's like the best
thing going. Yeah, and he's reporting directly to General Benjamin Butler,
who kind of starts the war and asshole, he's like not,
he's even more let's say moderate than Lincoln. He wasn't
even particularly anti slavery. At the start of the war.

(30:58):
But he's actually he's the first Union general who starts
hiring black refugees. And it's the biographer I read, David Saselski,
suggests that it's possible he got this idea from Galloway.
And if so, Galloway just changed the fucking face of history,
and that one moment, because all that general strike should
I'm talking about starts with that. And so then Galloway

(31:21):
goes on into spy ship for two and a half years,
and he's incredibly valuable, as are all of the black
spies in the U. S. Service because they know the terrain. Uh.
And also because white people just ignore black people and
pretend because people are fucking racist, and so surely they
can't figure out how to do things. Yeah, exactly, yeah. Um.

(31:45):
And so he actually goes and he scouts the landing
for the Union Army and the shores of North Carolina,
which again changes the fucking face of history, because the
landing in North Carolina is how it's part of how
the US runs its blockade on Southern itpping and helps
crush their economy. That's all fucking Galloway. And then I
mean it's also a ton of other people, right, I'm

(32:07):
not trying to be like it's just all away. Like,
you know, he found black pilots to help navigate the
ships to shore and ship like that, so the black
pilots who are not named in this also get all
the fucking credit. And then he gets set down in Mississippi,
and then he sees the Union treat black refugees like shit,
and they start turning away black refugees. They start working

(32:30):
other ones to death building a canal so that they
can siege a fortress that was a bad idea in
the first fucking place, of course, and the Union fails
at seizing the fortress, and then they just funk off
and they ditch all of the people, all the black
people who are there helping them, including Galloway. They just
fucking ditch him, and he gets captured by the Confederacy.
His story goes dark for a minute, and we don't

(32:52):
know he actually um he he was never literate, and
so we don't have as much of his own words
written down, but we know that he he escapes, and
he makes his way over land over the course of months,
through the entire fucking Confederacy back to North Carolina, to
the city of New bern where the Union is now
in control thanks to his own scouting to town besieged.

(33:14):
The rebel lines are only miles away, but has access
to shipping, so it's not really fully besieged. More than
ten thousand black people seeking their freedom now live there.
And these are like the hardest and most militant refugees
the war fucking sees, because these are the first people
who are like, I'm getting the funk out. They didn't
get out with those I'm not trying, you know, like,

(33:35):
but they got out when the going was hard, you know, yeah, yeah,
yeah yeah. And all these people, not all these people.
A lot of these people start working to scouts and
spies formally or informally, and they head back into Confederate
territory and a regular basis. Some of them do it
for the Union, some of them just do it for
their own fucking families and their friends and sucking everyone,
you know. Um yeah. Mc galloway doesn't rejoin the Union.

(33:56):
He's like, funk the Union, what the fund trust? Yea
yeah um, And so instead he just becomes an organizer.
He's twenty six, he's sarcastic, he's charming, He open carries
a pistol for the rest of his life. And so
in eighteen sixty three, the Unions like, but we need Galloway,
We need Galloway to get us an army. Because at

(34:18):
this point they finally decided the regiment Massachusetts is the
was the first all black regiment of the war. And
this is the one that that movie Glory is about. Yeah,
and it I'm really actually the main there's lots of
things to be mad about that movie. One of the
main things I'm mad about. Two of Frederick Douglas's sons
were in the fut I didn't know that they should

(34:39):
have been the main characters of that movie. But I
just blew my mind. I didn't know that. Yeah, Frederick
Douglas wasn't afraid to fucking I mean, well, his kids
weren't afraid to put some skin in the he was
weren't afraid to shoot. Yeah. Yeah, and soft is all black,
except they're not. Except no commissioned officers are black. Um,
and and it it works, right, is a positive test

(35:05):
or whatever. And so they're like, oh, and also, we're
losing this war and we fucking need more people. Yes,
And so they they send down this guy is this
white recruiter named Edward Kinsley. They send him down in
eighteen in eighteen sixty three down to new Burn to
find Galloway who's like hidden there, and try and convincing
to come over. And Galloway won't meet with this guy

(35:25):
until his he and his friends watch him for a
week to see how he treats black people, and he
basically wins Galloway over just by like the bare fucking
minimum of not being a dick. Like listen, listen, I
hope that's a lesson to all white people everywhere. That's
just like, listen, dog, like it ain't that hard. Just

(35:46):
we're gonna watch you, like I was gonna say, like
even him just being like I ain't gonna meet with you,
but I'm a hat at home. He's watching you, you know,
so which is what we do, right, we all do it.
It's like, well, let meet you know, let me do
our little googles, you know, run your name up the
flag pole. Fine, that was going on, and then once
we see what's up, it's like it's just it's like

(36:07):
the bar so low, like just hey, man, like just
just don't just don't be awful. Yeah, it's pretty. It's
not hard. It's not hard to not be awful. Yeah.
All he did is he he tipped his hat some
black workers and got yelled at by the by the
union soldiers and yeah, and if you do that, you

(36:27):
tip your hat to to to to the black people
and the white dudes, y'all let you like, hey, what
are you doing? You just look at me like, man,
fuck you, doc, Yeah exactly, the man just man, shut
the funk up, and you just keep going because where
you like you, then I'm gonna be like I like
that guy, right, Like it's that easy. Yeah. The bar
is on the floor, so he wants to step over
the bar, Yes, like you have to dig a hole

(36:50):
into the ground to go under the totally yes, yeah,
which plenty of people at this point, plenty of white
people are willing to yes, but so so that they
end up meeting with Galloway and this like perfect like
Cloak and Daggers thing, you know, where he meets with
the innkeeper and she takes him upstairs and then the
room is just entirely full of people and Galloways there

(37:13):
and they tell him point blank why we don't trust
the union. They're not paying black soldiers the same wage
as white soldiers. Black people are not being granted citizenship
by the Emancipation Proclamation. Black people have already been fighting
alongside of and dying alongside of Union troops with absolutely
no recognition. And sometimes these were in like scouting missions,
and sometimes they were like literally like you know, a

(37:35):
place is being attacked and you know the black people
they're also fucking fight and no recognition from the Union army.
And then also a bunch of specifically racist ship is
happening in New Burn. So they're like, all the ship's happening.
And they didn't say like, no, we're not going to
fight for the Union. They're saying, we're not going to
do it unless you meet our demands. Yeah, And so
they say, we want to be outfitted the same and

(37:56):
paid the same, we want housing for our families, we
want education for our kids, and we want the Union
to compel the Confederacy to treat captured black soldiers as
prisoners of war instead of selling or executing them. And
and this person a little like so Kinsley says yes, right,
So that of course he does, yeah, exactly. So then
they hold guns to his head and make him say

(38:17):
it again. Um, let me tell you how much I
love my people. Let me tell you how But because
that is the answer. But that man say yes, like
I don't think I need to make sure say it again.
Yeah no, wait, wait no, no, I don't say it again.
Now you now, you promise it on your mama, this
on your mama, on your hood, on your children. You're

(38:38):
gonna do this, yeah, Joe say, I mean I love
my people. Yeah. No, And and so he says yes again.
And and the thing I read is like Kinsley knows
he can't actually do these things. Galloway can't do these things.
What they're saying is you're gonna fucking try, and yes, yes,
and he does try. He doesn't. Some of the things
getting met eventually, some of them whatever. But but Kinsley

(38:58):
and Galloway they end up a friends and stay in
touch the rest of their lives. And over five thousand
black men volunteer for the Union Army in New Burn alone,
they formed what was generally known as the African Brigade.
In the end, a hundred and eighty six thousand black
men fought for the Union. The vast majority of them
were formally enslaved people, and they were as you as
you point out, they're paid less than white soldiers until

(39:21):
eighteen sixty four. Uh, and part of that gets applied retroactively,
and there's a million fucking loopholes for the equal pay
that they eventually they're still prevented from being commissioned officers
and combat roles. You get some some commissioned officers and
like medical roles, and then the Confederacy just keeps executing
captured black people and the any white officer fighting alongside

(39:41):
of them, and the Union could have done something about
it and fucking didn't. Except actually, and I didn't write
this in the script, so I'll get all the details wrong.
Except actually, the white guy who was the commissioned officer
for this African brigade, he was known as like the
hanging like I don't know, the hangman or whatever the
fun because whenever black soldiers were captured and killed, he
would kill Confederate prisoners. I love it because he was like, no,

(40:04):
I don't yeah, no, right, yeah, it's like you should
kill prisoners of war. But like was, yeah, but you
take one, we take five, you know, it's it's what
you're doing. Yeah, yeah, And then uh, but Union Army
is still proving to be racist as fun. And one guy,
William Walker, he goes on strike until he gets an
equal wage. He was court mount court marshaled and shot.

(40:25):
Another guy, William Johnson, he was caught deserting. He was
executed in this like highly publicized case that where they
brought out a photographer to make a big spectacle of
killing this black man. Two of the two of the
soldiers was to shoot him where these German immigrants, and
they refused to shoot, so they were arrested. And but
even with all that going on, so Galloway is like

(40:46):
two jobs now. One is that he is recruiting black
men to fight, and he's also fighting against all the
racism within the military. He even gets his old general
Butler the Moderate to to press his higher ups for
equal equal pay. But he's no longer a union spy,
but his networks ran deep. And I should probably talk
about potatoes right now. It feels like a good time

(41:07):
to talk about potatoes and French fries, which I really love.
I'm really excited about my air fryer, which makes really
good French fries. They really do. Man, you could even
go with like frozen like a bag of frozen ones
for that airfec device to reheat French fries. Yeah, because
you can't reheat fries. It's really hard to do that.
But if you could do, we could do it in
an air fry with a little little bit of olive

(41:28):
boyd on them little little lowrys. You're good. Yeah, And
so that's we're sponsored by the idea of French fries
and these other ads and we're back. Yeah we are.
I uh I sometimes like try to put myself in
the shoes of like a just moderately reasonable white dude

(41:54):
at this time who like like like you're saying, it's
like trying to tell his higher ups like, yo, we
should pay to do it is the same as everybody else,
and just being like and just kind of looking at
him like but they day holding the same they the bullet,
don't care like they die and just like we die,
Like I don't understand why you think they what this

(42:15):
don't make no sense to me, Like they liping just
as much dangerous are It's not more dangerous because they
running a higher matter of fact, we should be paying
them more because they running a higher risk than we are, Like,
don't do don't make sense to you and they got
more steaks, shouldn't they you think the bullet care what
color they are? Like what you know? So just I
just wondered. I just sometimes I just think, like, man,

(42:37):
how maddening that must have been, even if you just
like slightly just logical, You're like, what, we're doing the
same job, though, aren't we? Like? Are we doing the
same job? Yeah? I think a lot of you and
white people got radicalized by all this, like and all
my reading, it's like a lot of people start off
being like, oh, I don't know, and then they're like, oh,
this is evil, you know. Yeah, So so Galloway right,

(42:58):
He's no longer a Union's by, but his networks run
really deep all over the South. He managed to smuggle
his own mother out of Wilmington's, which is seventy five
miles beyond Confederate lines and one of the most heavily
fortified cities in the entire Confederacy. He gets out, he
arranges for her to send up to be Boston, where
she stays with one of his friends from the Anti

(43:19):
Man Hunting League. Yes, I want to think that I
would be have the balls to dude, have to get
my mom out. You know what I'm saying, Like, send
me that's a long walk. Yeah, um, and so okay,
So it's it's hard to overstate the importance of the
black soldiers and black insurgents fighting. It's like and the

(43:40):
striking black workers on the war effort. So I'll just
say that they fucking won the war. Militarily, they win
it by fighting hard and well and by spying and scouting.
But economically they wanted to And I've already said that
like three times, but i just want to make sure
I wanta leaves with that impression. And then North Carolinian
journalist David Forbes puts it like this. In April eighteen
sixty four, Lincoln met with a delegation of Galloway and

(44:03):
several other prominent insurgent figures from the North Carolina ports.
The President greeted them with an unusual, almost obsequious hospitality.
The few observers of the meeting noted that the delegates
weren't deferential. They were direct that they wanted the greatest
of privileges, their political rights and autonomy, and pointedly emphasized
the dire straits the war effort would be in without
their support. The incident comes off not as a commander

(44:26):
in chief giving orders, but is essentially autonomous militias, fully
aware of their leverage, and a government eager to keep
them actively on their side. That stuff they don't tell you, Yeah, exactly,
Like everything I'd always read is like, oh, and then
the you know, the grateful black people were so excited
that the white Irish Northerners saved them or whatever, yeah,

(44:48):
from the horrible racists of the South, And like, no,
first of all, the white people are racists everywhere, and
some of them are on racist everywhere, and but yeah,
fucking anyway, Yeah, I love that. So so Galloway end
of the war, he he moves to Wilmington's, the Confederacy
takes off their gray uniforms and put on white hoods.
As we all know, in eighteen sixty seven, the KKK

(45:11):
demanded that all black organizing cease in Wilmington's. So Galloway
and the black militia were like, well, you could, you
could fucking make us if you want. Yeah, how about that.
There's like four days of street battles with the clan,
and then the clan fox off out of Wilmington's for
the next thirty years. Love it, he winds up a senator.
He refuses to show difference to white people. He fought

(45:31):
for the rights of women, including full suffrage. He walked
around carrying a pistol. He fought for labor rights. He
started working to build coalitions with poor whites along class lines.
And then because of the nineteenth century, you know what
he did, he died at thirty three. Oh my goodness,
it's been like this man was so successful. You know,

(45:56):
we are all like, listen, we're all losers, like Uka
thirty three, Doug okay ye. Then yeah, yeah, he dies
at thirty three because it's nice. Yeah, and then he
either dies of like a fever or he gets poisoned.
It depends on what what history book you about you read,
But yeah, that's that's Gollaway. And there's a few more

(46:21):
parts of this whole Civil War within the Civil War,
the Civil Civil War war, and it was civil war.
One part is that the the white South was far
from united in the support of the Confederacy. A lot
of people didn't want to fight and die for slavery,
a few of them because I thought slavery was bad.
More because they were just like too poor to get
to own people themselves. Yeah, but in eighteen sixty, I

(46:44):
was gonna say, I think that that's important part of
his story to this, Like you're like why intersectionality and
critical race theory, like why you need to notice stuff?
Is that type of intersection to where it's like, hey, dude, like, yeah,
maybe I'm not a slave, but I can see it
at that's bullshit and I can't afford to have one anyway.
And I can't stand your owner either totally, you know

(47:08):
what I'm saying, Like, Nah, he's a dickhead, you right, yeah, nah,
fuck that guy. But I'm just as poor as you are,
you know what I'm saying, Well, not just as poor,
but like in their perception they're just like I mean,
I'm poor too, Like nah for this guy, not even
a fight for that, you know what I'm saying. So
it's more like it's not so much that like you know,
like obviously like socially conscious and aware for their time,

(47:31):
but just more the reality of like this is what
this is What a lack of resources does It makes
you be like man fighting your principal cause like talking
about no man, that guy, you know, you just summarize
the next chunk of my script. Let's go yeah, like, okay,

(47:53):
so in eighteen sixty, most white Southerners they don't live
in the plantation belt. They live upland they live in
mountains and hills. And then to them, they don't grow
cash cash crops. They even the ones who own land,
they didn't so they didn't grow cotton. They were just
subsistence farmers. Some of them were heard Muslim subsistence farmers
called the and they get called the the yeomen, which

(48:13):
is a word I never knew how to pronounce. I
only know how to spell because it's also a word
in like ye oldly medieval stories. But yeah, so the
when the Confederacy formed and succeeded, a lot of delegates
from the mountains voted to remain within the Union or
only voted for secession after they were threatened. That's another
thing that doesn't get talked about. Even some of the
people voted secession were like, well, you're gonna kill me,

(48:34):
so all right, you know, yeah, yeah, I guess. And
then the reason West Virginia, where I live, the reason
it exists is because it didn't want to succeed from
the Union. So it's succeeded from Virginia. The whole of
East Tennessee voted to remain in the Union two to one,
and they they weren't playing around. Pro Union military companies
formed in every county. One guy went up to d

(48:56):
C to be like, hey, if we if we blow
up all the bridges from the rest of Tennessee, you
sent down troops to protect us, And the general was like, yeah, sure, guy,
we can do that. Um. So they went and they
torched four bridges, but they weren't able to capture the rest.
So they were too heavily guarded by the Confederates. So
instead of a Union army marching in, a Confederate army
marched in and occupied East Tennessee. They declare martial law,

(49:18):
they start seizing property, a bunch of the ring leaders
are executed, hundreds are arrested, and then thousands of men
of military age flee through the mountains through the Confederacy
to go join the Union army. When the when the
Union recaptures East Tennessee, it was it was led by
a Union regiment of Tennessee infantry. They had enough fucking
people funk off and they were able to form an

(49:39):
entire fucking regiment that was like, no, we know, we
know these we know these blue mountains out we know them.
Let me tell you what to go. You know I'm
saying yeah. Winston County, Alabama, in the northern part of
the state, they voted to secede from the Confederacy. So
they decided, look, if the Confederates are allowed to seceed
from the Union were allowed to seceed from the Confederacy.
They formed militia ban that stopped Confederate conscription and they

(50:02):
protected local families from being robbed by the army. The
the Peace and Constitutional Society of Arkansas again in the mountains,
this time in the Ozarksalachia. They resist conscription. Hundred of
them are arrested. Eight thousand of them fled and served
in the Union Army. In the total, over the course
of the war, a hundred thousand Confederate troops deserted, most
of them facing execution if they got caught. Almost all

(50:25):
of them are folks who didn't known slaves, and they
knew that there. They ran off because they were like,
my family will fucking starve by a subsistence farmer, Like
if I'm not there to put crops in the ground,
my family will die. Funk this war. Yeah. In the
hills of Choctawk County, Mississippi, a loyal league of deserters
spied for the Union help people desert robbed the families

(50:47):
of those who were loyal to the Confederacy. Northern Alabama
started off loyal to Confederacy, but by eighteen sixty three
was full of people resisting and Floyd County West go ahead.
I was gonna say, man, at some point, it's like,
I don't care what your politics are, man, you're not
gonna feed your children and know me? Grinder, Yeah, you
know what I mean. Like, at some point you like

(51:08):
this is yeah, like you said, there is some bullshit man.
Like even if you started off being like yeah, you know,
and then you're like, you know what this look, man,
I'm go home grossing potatoes. Yeah. Basically, all through the
South people just fought against the Confederacy. They would ambush,
they would rob, they would sabotage, they would assassinate, and
then they were met with massacres and arson. There's a

(51:29):
whole fucking civil war within the Civil War. In North Carolina,
the coast had black and indigenous guerrillas. They had Maroons
hanging out in the swamps would attack. The center had
these like direct action abolitionists. The west and the mountains
had diehard Unionists. Madison County, which is where I lived
for four or five years before now, it was called
Bloody Madison. The Confederates there came from the cities, but

(51:50):
they were outnumbered by the anti Confederates who came from
the hills and the unions. Unions there. Basically, they're tired
of being robbed constantly by the Confederates, so they robbed
all their own ship back and then the Confederates came
and they rounded up thirteen people and shot them in
the mountains, including a thirteen year old boy. Some of
the soldiers hesitated to shoot, and the commander said, anyone
who doesn't shoot is going to get shot too. The

(52:12):
most famous of these yeoman results revolts sorry in the
Civil War was the Free State of Jones, Mississippi. Is
another Hollywood movie ever seen? Free State of Jones. Uh?
Is this another Hollywood movie that gets fucking white saviory
about this ship? Yea um. But basically, there's this Confederate
soldier named Newton Knight. He heard that his brother in

(52:33):
law was abusing his kids, so he deserts. He walks
two d miles home and he kills the aforementioned brother
in law. Then he takes the swamps where he's hanging
out with the maroon community, the runaway enslave folks or
the people no longer enslaved, people fleeing enslavement. So he's
hanging out there and then other Confederate deserters. They form
a multi racial grilla gang. They raid Confederate storehouses. They

(52:55):
distribute the food back to the farmers. They fought fourteen
skirmishes with the confess Tod Army. Newton Knights said their
numbers never exceeded twenty five fighters, but a general from
the Union Army claims it was six d. They declared
their county free from Confederates. They raised the U. S
Flag over the courthouse, and they declared a free state
of equal rights. And after the war, Newton Knight writes

(53:17):
to the US government and he asked for compensation for
the families of the men who died in battle. In
the US is like, uh, no, we don't, we don't
know you all. We don't know you. Yeah, because my
argument is that the Union isn't really the good guys
in the story. They're just the better than the Confederates guys,
the other guys. Dude, there's a this This is a

(53:39):
dope moment, like culturally, um, for a number of reasons.
But I think one of the doper like modern tie
ins is especially around like the Appalachia stuff because um,
just like the origins of like folk music, like the
banjo is West African, Like that's a West African instrument.

(54:00):
So when you have this like interaction of freed or like, um,
you know, self emancipating slaves, right, former slaves hit these
Appalachian with these like Gaelic and Irish, So you have
these type of sing songy stuff that's Gaelic and Irish
that we're hiding in the Appalachians plus this like African

(54:21):
banjo's and it made what we know as folk music
said is these people existing in these mountains who was poor,
trying to figure out what they did, and they was
playing music outside. And I'm like that to me is
like a sign of like you said, what you're talking
about to where it's like these these people up in
the MOUNTA was like, man, funk your ward. Like I
had nothing to do with that. Now y'all come stay

(54:42):
with us, you know what I'm saying, or the other
way around. Like black people just found this mountain. It
was like, oh damn, people live up here, you know.
I was like, what y'all doing? You know? We free Now,
I ain't scared of y'all, yo, but uh yeah, So
I just think they these I wish more people would
tell these stories. Um, if anything, just not for those no,

(55:06):
like you know, making make us feel better about like, well,
not all white people, not for that thing, but to
just understand that, you know, history is way more complicated
than we was taught. Yeah, no, exactly. Like even as
I'm trying to write this, I'm trying to be like,
I'm not trying to center the white anti racists on this, right,
but I want people to know that, like, for whatever

(55:27):
the reasons, the South was not a fucking unified place,
you know, and then to close off this whole thing
about it. Even some of the fucking plantation owners. Fuck them.
I'm not defending them. They get in on the effect
of hating the Confederacy, but they do it purely out
of self interest because they're a bunch of capitalists, right,
and so yes, of course, when well they'll do whatever
is the most profitable. When New Orleans gets occupied in

(55:49):
eighteen sixty two and then throughout Mississippi in eighteen sixty three,
some rich fox are like, you know what, fuck it, well,
so we got cotton and sugar, we'll sell it to
the Union Army instead, um, which is like, it's basically
what you get when you try to run a war
based on the idea of creating like the collective self
interest of capitalists. They don't have collective self interest, Like, no,

(56:09):
there is no Yeah, it's the self interest is the money.
So I love it. They was like, y'all fighting for
us to be able to keep slaves, but y'all don't
buy enough. So, uh, what's that with y'all? Y'all, y'all, y'all,
y'all was in sugar yo, say, and now y'all smoke,

(56:31):
y'all smoke, y'all smoke yea, we got to tobacco. It's ridiculous.
And that is the story of the Civil Civil War War.
Feeling about the Civil Civil War War, man, I I am.
I hope that this pod gets so much like air

(56:56):
and oxygen in it because of the amount of story
as that aren't told out of this not only just
to like the culture as a whole, but black people period.
I think a lot of times, like you know, we
know that, we know the we know the highlight reels,
you know what I mean, the harreat Tubmans. Then that
Turner is the sole general truths, you know what I'm
saying that you know, the Frederick Douglas is the ones

(57:18):
that were literate and you know, wrote um biographies and
autobiographies and such, but like these like you know, regular
dudes that were like nah, fam, you think you think
your ancestors, you know what I'm saying, You really think
your ancestors just took it like they didn't just take
it like you know what I'm saying, like nah, like

(57:39):
fuck too finial the whole time. You know. So I
think that like even just hearing that you're you're you're
right this, I have the opposite feeling of the bastard
thing where I feel like invigorated and inspired, like yeah, foo,
yeah you know what I'm saying. Yeah I succeeded. You did, Margaret.
I appreciate you calling me for this one. Thanks for

(58:00):
coming on. And on Wednesday, we're gonna talk about the
Lowry Gang, which is tying into all of this, and
you all will not be disappointed by this. Let's go prop.
You got any plugables for us at the end here, Yeah,
prop hip hop dot com. Um, you know what I'm
gonna do. I haven't pluged this on any of the
pod yet, but if y'all are in the l A area,

(58:22):
I do this thing called Club Real Ones. It's every
first Sunday in Long Beach. It's and it's it's just
the day party for y'all grown folks. I gotta work
the next day. We're done by eight, you know what
I'm saying. And there's there'sn't there. I mean, there's an
after part if you want to. You can go get
cocktails next door. We have that too if you don't
gotta work tomorrow. But if you do, Yo three to

(58:44):
three to eight, just come chill with us the greatest
DJs in CALLI you know what I'm saying. Uh yeah,
Club real Ones dot It's on my website, profit pop
dot com. And then all the professional stuff, like I
wrote a book. You know, I got my podcast for politics,
yeah terrif Yeah, which I just got an award yesterday
for which is ship Yeah. Anyway, so yeah, those are

(59:06):
my plugs, Margaret, anything you want to plug at the
end here, well, at the moment I seem to like
plug in my new podcast, Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff.
You can also follow me on Twitter at Magpie Killjoy
and a bunch of books out. I guess the most
recent one that's out. It's called A Country of Ghosts.
It's an anarchist utopian novel. Okay, so we'll be back.

(59:27):
We'll be back on Wednesday. We're back in the feeds.
We're back in the feeds. The rapping is mean by
Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of
cool Zone Media. For more podcasts and cool Zone Media,
visit our website cool zone media dot com, or check

(59:48):
us out on the I Heard Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts.