February 10, 2025 • 51 mins
Margaret talks further with Prop about how the people of Haiti destroyed a slave empire.
Sources:
https://www.newsweek.com/poland-nationalism-new-york-haiti-slave-rebellion-revolution-1382388
A Secret among the Blacks: Slave Resistance before the Haitian Revolution, John D. Garrigus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VofAQYxcHHY
https://catholiceducation.org/en/faith-and-character/king-afonso-i-of-kongo12-06-17.html
https://ecda.northeastern.edu/makandal-knowledge/
http://piketty.pse.ens.fr/files/ideology/pdf/F6.2.pdf
https://ecda.northeastern.edu/makandal-knowledge/
https://www.afrikaiswoke.com/makandal-the-black-messiah/
https://blogs.loc.gov/law/2011/01/slavery-in-the-french-colonies/
https://haitidoi.com/2013/03/18/1804-census-gros-morne-haiti/
https://haitidoi.com/2016/01/26/dessalines-reader-1-april-1804-2/
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s41603-019-00071-5
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Cool Zone Media.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Hello, and welcome to Cool People who did cool stuff.
You're a weekly reminder that while bad things happen, people
do kind of amazing things in the middle of bad things.
I'm your host, Margat Kiljoy and my guest today it's propw.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Are you hey excited to hear about somebody group of
people that did cool things in this Black History Month.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Yeah, they're gonna do some really fucking cool things, some
really cool stuff. Yeah. And our producer is Sophie Just kidding,
I mean well, Sophie star producer.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
Actually he's not on mic right now.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
She's still a producer.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
But yeah, our audio engineers Rory. Everyone's sills to say
hi to Rory.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Hi, Rory sor Ry.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Our theme musical was written for Spy on Woman and
this is the three parter. I am really impressed by
any listener who's starting with part three. Your brain works
differently than mine, you are.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Yeah, that is a wild, a wild choice. Yeah, I
feel like you know what that is. I feels like
first born energy of like I am not going back
to No, this is where we are, and like what
you I'm telling you, if you just go back to
part one and two, it may make no, I already
started it. That's what we're doing.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
I think that's a very accurate I could say this
as the youngest, like yeah, yeah, no, I'm the youngest too,
that's why I yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Yeah, totally yeah, just like watching my sister and I'm
just like, I really think there's a better way for
us to do this.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
And then well, the youngest we get to be the
most adventurouses we feel the least responsible.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Totally.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
But in parts one and two, for anyone who didn't listen,
or for people who want the catching up, we talked
about the history of Sandomong as the French colony was
called the western half of the island now Haiti, and
we talked about the religion Vodom, and we talked a
lot about how that led to a bunch of uprisings.
We talked about a guy named Macndahl who history and
(01:58):
legend has as a mass poisoner, but it was probably
still really interesting living outside the system, doing his own
thing with his followers and then got burned at the stake.
And then and this part actually feels at least as
true as anything else, he cheated death, turned into a mosquito,
and later basically wiped out all the invading armies.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
So bit a bunch of booties.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's how you get things done, you know.
So the thing is setting one guy on fire for
a witchcraft doesn't actually end the hysteria. Even though the
colonial authorities were like, we have caught all the ring leaders,
for decades after enslave people kept getting caught up in
(02:43):
basically an inquisition. Slavers kept torturing enslaved people into false confessions.
So this is why there's like evidence about all this
poisons that we have all these confessions. They were like, hey,
I'm gonna drown this guy in front of you, So
what are.
Speaker 4 (02:58):
You going to do about that? You know?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yeah, And so people were getting like burned alive and
drowned and all the stuff. You go from alive to
dead in the worst possible ways, and they were being
called Mackandall's in the seventeen seventies, so like fifteen years.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
After that guy died.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Wow, the fear of poison and the persecution. I didn't
realize how deep this went. The persecution of supposed poisoners
was a huge part of colonial life, just like everyday
life for decades people were just like, oh, the voodoo
in the woods, and also they're all going to poison us,
and you're like, well, the vodoo in the woods is real.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
Yeah, that's just a religion. People are doing it.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Yeah, yeah, very much. The Dei of its time. It's
just gonna come kill us.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
There are so many weird overlaps with today.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
I've always been really fascinated by the Haitian Revolution because
of how it ties into us abolitionism and stuff. I
didn't realize just how much as a hopeful version of
what we're looking at right now, like because usually you
look at like, oh some well, we'll get to it.
I'll tell you about it as but one of the
(04:11):
first weird overlaps of the modern times. You know what
the colonists were doing. They were vaccine denying. They are
the first anti vax people in the history of the world.
I mean other people are probably doing it at the
same time, but this is before vaccines. Because one of
(04:33):
the histories of vaccines is you have smallpox right just
going around killing everyone, and people figured out, all right, well,
if we take the tiniest bit of smallpox, we can
inoculate ourselves and survive and smart people were like, all right,
we're gonna do that. But most of the colonists were like, no,
(04:54):
people aren't dying of smallpox. People are dying of poison
because the black people are poisoning everyone.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
That's what these bumps are. It's the bumps they working
the roots on you. Oh man yo QAnon COVID head ass.
It's like, yeah, COVID is fake and China gave it
to us word.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Yeah yeah, got hi one all right, yes, yeah both yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
I think this is so so special and like for
a number of reasons, because it's like, all right, first
of all, to your point, for someone to say, to
cure this horrible disease, I just need to take a
little bit of that disease and put it on me.
It sounds absurd, like you know, it's true. It sounds
(05:43):
upshurd off the top where I would be like, yeah,
I don't know, fam, that's sound the wait, but I
don't have it, so you're gonna give it to me?
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Like yes, so stay away from me.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
I thought I should stay away from you. But to
go from that to well, obviously it's they gotta they
got dolls with nail in it, and the nails, like,
that's what's happening.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Yeah, that's so much more realistic.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
That's so much more realistic.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Yeah, And so doctors and scientists and all the people
were actually like paying attention to what was going on,
kept telling everyone it wasn't even just like like you
kind of have this thing where the colonial authorities are
a little bit like, hey, could y'all stop being a
bunch of idiots, and everyone's like, no, we will not.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
You're not here, you don't see what's happening.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, So small boxes running rampant. Some
people are starting to inoculate themselves and then also inoculate
the people.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
That they own.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Yeah, but a lot of people are ignoring all that
and blaming black people. And then the other thing that
was running rampant was anthrax. And I don't know a
ton about anthrax. From my point of view. Anthrax is
like a thing that gets mailed to people in the
late nineties or early aughts or whatever.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Yeah, some sort of some sort of band, Yeah that
the racist white kids liked.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Yeah, totally totally. And but anthrax is this, you know, disease,
and that ye killing a lot of people specifically, is
killing livestock populations, and it shouldn't have then killed any
people because it would have just killed the animals. But
instead the white people decided to starve all the black
people to death, and so people were left with no
(07:15):
food to.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
Eat besides infected meat.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Smart.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Yeah, exactly, it worked out really well for everyone, so
quote that author John D.
Speaker 4 (07:23):
Garrigus.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Although cases of human anthrax were rare in France, they
were common in sant Dumong because the colony was designed
to produce famine among the enslaved to save labor and land,
planters and their agents routinely decided to buy food rather
than produce their own. This maximized sugar profits and made
their workers food supply vulnerable. Plantation life exposed enslaved people
(07:46):
to anthrax in many ways. And again physicians were like,
it's an epidemic of anthrax. We can dissect these animals
and see, and slavers are like, nope, it's them, dastardly
enslave people.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
They're putting the hecks on the beef.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Really, we're cursing the beef, got it, Yeah, the one
that we're eating, like you, we cursed our own food.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
And so Basically, you have all these slavers being like, well,
I want to kill one guy that I own in
order to frighten everyone else to confessing into poison. Which works.
You can get people to confess to poison if you
kill their friend in front of them.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Other people in town were like, no, this is small
pox and anthrox. We have we have the we have
studies on this.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
It's happening everywhere else too, It's not just here.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
So I don't think their voodoo's that powerful. I'm pretty sure. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
As the century winds down, slavers are getting worse and worse.
You have these poison inquisitions and slave people are being
buried alive. Saw Island continues to be Saw Island. To
continue to not watch the Saw movies, but I continue
this metaphor.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
You're not missing anything, Margaret.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Yeah, that's that's really the best I can tell.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Yeah, you're not missing anything.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
As repression ramped up, there was two different groups that
started trying to address that repression of enslaved people, and
both of these actually ended up kind of paving the
way for the revolution. And one of them is the courts. Okay,
because we were talking earlier about how like the courts were like, hey,
you can't treat enslaved people really bad. But then the yea,
(09:23):
or rather France told the local courts, hey you can't
do this, and the local courts are like, we don't care.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
We're gonna do whatever we want.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
And this led to this almost counter revolution. Like Okay,
I've said a million times on the show, I consider
the American Revolution of counter revolution. You have the white
supremacist aristocracy against a like politically moderate monarchy. The white
nationalists like George Washington spun a whole fairy tale about
liberty in order to get poor whites to go die
for the rich people, so American coluinists could invade the
(09:51):
indigenous lands west of the Appalachians. And before the Haitian
Revolution there was almost this same kind of thing. Colonists
started getting mad at France telling them what to do
because the colonists wanted to be even more racist.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
Than the mainland French people.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Yeah, and so you end up with these two revolutions
kind of racing, like going side by side in opposition
to each other. There is the white slavers, and not
even all the slavers, but specifically the white ones and
then you have the enslaved people. Sandomong was hit by
a bunch of really hard times in the seventies. The
(10:30):
seventeen seventies obviously. Yeah, I guess so lost in reading
history books that I'm like, I know more about the
seventeen seventies this week.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Yeah than the nineteen seventies.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Yeah, although that's it. I know an awful lot about
the nineteen seventies. It's the twenty twenties I'm not caught
up on, like.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
You still feel like do you feel like the seventies
was thirty years ago? Still?
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Yeah, it wasn't, And I don't understand how could it
not be?
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, it's fifty years.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Do you ever think about how you're like listening to like,
like in the nineties when I was a kid, you know,
as a teenager, the classic rock was like weird old shit, right, yeah,
and like that shit is more recent than the shit
I was listening to in the nineties.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Yes, yes, Like, man, when people go they're gonna put
on old school hip hop and then they play like
Wu Tang and I'm like, you mean run DMC, Like no, no,
that's ancient. We mean Wu Tang and I'm like, oh dang.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Yeah yeah, and I know, oh, any album that came
out after I became an adult is new.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
That is the perfect way to put it. That is
the perfect that's perfect. I'm just like, oh, yeah, it
just happened, like remembering that two thousand was twenty five
years ago. Yes, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
What as the two oldest people at cool Zone the
too old Yeah, yes, all right. So in the seventeen seventies,
famine hit because the winter in France was so cold
that the ports froze over, so food wasn't imported from there,
and all of the sugar planters were like, we don't
(12:04):
grow food, we only import food. And then seventeen seventy six,
the British had that whole war with the colonies and
they blockaded North America and this reduced the amount of
food coming in even further. And so this is when
you start having all the enslaved people literally digging up
the animals that died of anthrax because they're starving to
death day and the colonial administration in Haiti had to
(12:26):
straight up order the planters to plant food, to allow
the enslaved people to plant the food that they could eat. Themselves.
But the planters refused that that was there, Like, oh,
this is a step too far. They're telling us that
we have to let people grow food to feed themselves.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
That's it.
Speaker 4 (12:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
The court started offering really limited I'm not trying to
play up how great the court was here, but it
plays into the revolution. The court started offering really limited
protections to enslave people, the tiniest amounts. At one point,
ten enslave people showed up at court with burns all
over their bodies from all the torture that they had faced,
and the court was like, well, you do got to
(13:08):
go back to your slaver, but we're gonna tell him
that if any of you are killed or sold, he's
in trouble.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
So dread Scott head ass. That is awful and also
so familiar. Yeah, just yeah, lay that on so many things.
It's like, hey, listen, yeah, okay, man, I know he
slapped the shit out of you, but I'm gonna tell him, Hey,
next time you put your hands on that lady, we're coming. Yeah. Okay, thanks,
(13:37):
thanks dude. Appreciated courts. Yeah, it feels so safe now.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Yeah, and this is too much for the slavers. They
start rebelling against the colonial administration because of the slap
on the wrists.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
They because they gently said that there is a way
to keep your investment alive.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Yeah. Y, this is what actually really drove me. It
really interested me because I used to think of slavery
in the West as like an economic arrangement, and that's
the wrong way to look at it. It really is
a white supremacist arrangement. Like at its core, it is
about power even more than economy.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
But all this horrible abuse that enslave people are facing,
they it as it's I don't want to I can't
really say as things got worse because it's already like
the place where the life expectancies like two years, but
it somehow gets worse. Yeah, and so they start responding
even more. You have all these maroon communities, like we've
talked about, there was probably amongst all the poison hysteria
(14:43):
people also poisoning. Being like, well, you gave me a
good idea, and I do have accessed all this anthrax meat,
so I'm sure that some people are getting poisoned, but
we don't have any evidence of that. Yeah, But one
tactic that got used a lot that I have not
personally read about in a comparable situation. They went on.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Strike, they just stopped working.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Like labor strikes, they would just leave the plantation, but
not to run away, just like, until our demands are met,
we're not going to work. And this is fucking high stakes, right.
If you fail, you die. Yeah, but their backs are
against the wall anyway. If they don't strike and get
(15:23):
their conditions better, they're going to die.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
And honestly, these are some of the most inspiring labor
strikes I've ever read about my life.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Amazing. I never read it in terms of labor strike.
I never thought of it as that means that's exactly
what it is.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Yeah, and it Yeah, And it's interesting because like we
talked about on the first episodes, you were on on
about how the you know see all our James talked
about how the South did a general strike during the war. Yeah,
but that's still kind of a like, I mean, that's true,
they did a general strike, but it wasn't quite a like, hey,
we have the following demands and we're we're going to
withdraw our labor until Yeah, this was a fuck labor
(16:00):
strike and it was like, I don't know, I don't
remember exactly where this maps to, like England having labor strikes,
but this is fucking early.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
Yeah, I like, yeah, I would have never like, but
that's what it is. I would have never thought of
it that way because yeah, like this, you know, in
the Southern States, if you are a chattel slave at
the time and y'all going to war, it's like, well,
you gon't die tomorrow. So like I'm not I'm not working, yeah,
(16:31):
you know, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
So at the first one I read about, at an
a state called the Breta Estate, twenty five out of
the one hundred enslaved workers fucked off on a strike
in response to these poison inquisitions. And so, in a
weird way, the poison hysteria did was like a domino
that helped bring down the slave empire because these inquisitions
were too much for people, so they walked off the
(16:54):
job and they short term marooned with a quarter of
the workforce gone. The owner listened to his nephew use
the foreman was like, it's poison, and the nephews were like, hey,
we read science and it's not poison.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
Actually I can read you know, yeah, yeah, you'll oversee
your can't read. I can read.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Yeah, And so the workers returned after the foreman was fired,
and they got you know.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
The inquisition stopped.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
And at this place there's a guy who I'm not
actually gonna talk about nearly as much as I expected to.
They had a coachman working for him named Toussaint Luvitour,
who ends up being one of the heroes of the revolution.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
The man dude.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, And an unlikely class of heroes arose
during the strikes. This part, okay, this part really surprised me.
The people who left these strikes were the most privileged
enslaved people. Yeah, the skilled laborers, the field laborers did
shit too. I'm not trying to dismiss this, Yeah, but
the so you have, like, for example, the people who
(17:55):
make the sugar instead of tending the crops, they have
more like they're harder to replace. You have to get
trained into the job more. The coachmen were doing a
lot of the revolutionary stuff and the strikes. But the
thing that surprised me is that there were the drivers,
basically the slave drivers, right. And the slave drivers were
also enslaved people, but they were like giving whips and
(18:16):
better food and hit people and stuff. They were often
the people who led the strikes.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
This is one of the big start contrasts between America
and Haiti. Yeah, was this point between like, you know,
house workers and field workers that you know, in a
lot of ways to this day still is a sort
of a thing. But like that, you know, obviously I'm
making a gross generalization, but that's one thing that specifically
(18:46):
was was very different to where they were, like, oh,
you you treating me nicely. Don't change the fact that
I'm a slate. Like, nah, I'm with them, yeah, uh huh.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
The fact that white people made this a race war
is the reason that the whole thing fell apart, which
gives is the thing that gives me hope with the
modern era of like kicking out like banning dei or
whatever the fuck you know. Yeah, and so yeah, the
quote unquote privileged enslave people are a huge part of
(19:20):
the revolution leading up to it and during it. And
this is a paragraph where I wrote what you just said,
so I'll just skip that. In May of seventeen eighty two,
people working at the Noah Estate went on strike and
they shut the place down for a week. And these
are like two separate strikes, as the field strike and
(19:41):
the sugar factory strike. Yeah, and the two drivers are
the people who at least get the credit for leading
this Hipolte was the field driver and a man named
Jean Jacques, who's not Jean Jacques de Salinaeus, who's more
important later?
Speaker 3 (19:56):
Yeah's your hero later?
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Yeah, Yeah, but Jean ends up actually one of the
heroes of the early parts of the revolution. One hundred
and forty field workers left the estate, then came back
twenty four hours later, and then the skilled laborers left
for nine days. And I believe this strike was successful
and they got their immediate demands met. Jean Jacques is
an interesting fellow. He's later going to become one of
(20:19):
the early leaders of the revolution. I am not aware
of him having a last name, which is of course common.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
He was a crafts person. He was basically the person
who made the sugar production happen, and he was higher
in authority than a lot of the white employees on
the estate. And the owner had kept promising like, oh,
I'm totally gonna let you go. Like the yeah, the
old owner like in his will was like you should
totally let this guy go one day, you know, and
it didn't happen.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
Well, Thomas Jefferson Stez.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Yeah, yeah, he does get free, but by a little
bit more of a direct route later exactly, and after
these successful strikes, these two drivers, they're punished by putting
them into internal exile. They are fired without being freed,
so they are unemployed slaves.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
Syop dude.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
They I know, they get paid for ending the strike,
Like I think there's all like thanks for ending the strike,
here some money, like I think it's like part of
the negotiations. But then they're left with nothing to do,
but like hang out on the plantation. They can't leave. Yeah,
so they became revolutionaries.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
I mean you idle hands, yeah, idle hands. Yeah, y'all
gave me the time. Yeah, I didn't have time. Now
I got time. Yeah, y'all's fault.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
This plantation, the Noah Plantation, less than a decade later,
is going to be one of the first places to revolt.
But you know who, we would never revolt against.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
Oh, we better not.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
I don't know if that's a comparison. I feel a
good making but.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
I mean we have many times, but yeah, but now
we won't.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
But we we love our goods and services being employed.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
So listen, man, you notion you gotta swim.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Yeah, and here's what we're swimming in. It adds.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
And we're back.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
So the strikers would say things like we're not going
to do night work anymore, or we want a right
to choose our managers among I think amongst themselves, or
they would be protesting like one of the skilled laborers
would you know, be seen as unruly and get demoted
to field work or something. And so it's very similar
(22:39):
types of demands as what wage laborers will end up
going on strike for, you know, one hundred years from now.
And sometimes the strikes make conditions better. Sometimes they make
the conditions worse, but dangerously to the slave empire. The
strikers are often appealing to the court systems for to
be intervene into into the labor demands. Meanwhile, I want
(23:02):
to tell a story about another diviner like Mackandal. In fact,
the Attorney General at the time called this woman Macndal's
second Coming. And her name is King Gay. She was
born in Congo. Then she was stolen, trafficked and sold
across the ocean. Her owner was as best as anyone
can tell a free black woman who let Kingay kind
(23:23):
of do her own thing as long as she paid
a monthly fee to her, which is again the like
that also happened sometimes in the States. You had people
being like, oh, yeah, you can go out and get
a job. I just get a cut, you know.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Yeah, totally.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
The education I got around slavery was very for good reason,
focused on the plantation system and like specifically the most
I don't know whatever, it's like, I feel like it's
useful to see the breadth of this really nasty harble system.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
You know. No, for real, I think the point you
made earlier about how this was really about white supremacy,
because there was a moment where this was not financially viable,
Like there was a moment where it stopped being actually
a good and like you said in the in the
first episode, to where it was like the chattel slavery
in North America was very much an upper crust like
(24:14):
sort of experience. But were you a northern freed educated
black person in the same way you've existed in the
rest of the world, and over time you have somebody
that works for you, you know that you would call
a slave, you know, and but like you said, there's
a stipend, you go just give me a cut, Like
(24:36):
this is our world. I have to own you, Okay,
I own you whatever that means. You know what I
mean totally.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
And it's interesting because the treatment of how even black
slavers started getting cut out of the system is going
to be a huge part of the revolution in a
way that I that was like the part that I
was like, oh, holy shit, but so so Kingaey For
two years seventeen eighty four to seventeen eighty five, she
worked as what I defined last time as a service magician,
(25:05):
similar to makendal, where you go around you help people
with shit and you you know, give evil charms and
help heal and do whatever needs doing. She and her
probably husband traveled around from plantation of plantation selling talismans.
She was probably a vodu practitioner, but the book that
I read that talked about her never used the word
vodu at anywhere. Is I kept running across this Everyone
(25:26):
who writes the history of the Haitian Revolution is completely
different politics from each other and completely different ideas about
which parts they need to include in like xcise. But
she would probably channel spirits. She would so she was
or she was channeled spirits. This is probably that she
let a la mount her and she spoke in a
channeled man's voice. And she is not really honestly a
(25:49):
hero here, and she's but it's more interesting and I
think ties.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
Into some of this stuff.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Okay, she had a strong following among enslaved people. I
believe she was revered. The it was phrased this she
was worshiped. I'm skeptical of that framing because.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
Yeah, that's that's laying on top of that.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Yeah, but she worked for a lot of slavers. The
commander of a local militia is one of her main benefactors.
She showed up and told him he'd been poisoned, and
so she saved him by pulling toads out of him,
one out of his head and one out of his side.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
Love it.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Yeah, And then she told him which of his enslaved
people had poisoned him, and so then he went and
killed a bunch of them.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
Yeah, don't love that.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Oh yeah, no, this is yeah, she's not a hero
and yeah, and so then he killed a bunch of
them and sold the rest. And then she was allowed
to live on his plantation, and he provided carriages and servants,
and the servants were enslaved people to help her travel
around and do her work, which by this point meant
that she would show up and accuse enslave people of
being poisonous. So she's part of this inquisition system and
(26:51):
then like watch those people get killed. She's probably taking
bribes from other enslaved people to be like, hey, I've
I got beef with this guy, can you go kill him?
Speaker 3 (27:00):
Yeah, I'm really tired of I'm really tired as Jean Pierre.
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
But even she wasn't acceptable to the white supremacist institution.
She pissed off the wrong people. She got too big
for a breeches. In seventeen eighty five, the Attorney General
had her and Or probably has been arrested, and they
disappeared from the historical record. This was partly because they
were trying to keep revolt down. They were like, all
of these inquisitions are going badly, But it's just it's
(27:26):
like a, I don't know, I found the story really fascinating.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
It is, and it's also like you know, in parallels
for now, you know, it's not as simple. I can
speak for almost for all the cools on medias being like,
it's not so much that we're like partisan democrats, because
we're like, well, you guys, are you know, khaki beige?
You know, cream a mushroom soup anyway, Like so that's
(27:52):
not even like our lane. But dad being said, you know,
when it was time to push the line, we knew
where to stand. And when you're watching, you know, for example,
at least as a person of color, when you're watching
other people of color actually stand up and defend, you know,
(28:13):
the moves conservative movements to Donald Trump's movement, you know,
for whatever reasons they say they're doing. And a lot
of times among among I'm about to get into a
diatribe here, but a lot of times, like black capitalists,
they're like, you just got to get yours, Like this
is the world we're in, and it's like at the
end of the day, man, like you got to get yours.
You know. You we like Trump because you get to
(28:34):
the money, you know, and at some point, you know,
I don't care you could, you know, you teach you
you keep your kids from listening to hip hop, you
put them in private schools and make them never wear hoodies.
And wear suits and ties. But at the same but
at the end of the day, yeah, listen, you not
want of them, you know, and the day will come,
(28:55):
and when that day comes, you will look out at
the fact that you sold out your own community been
trying to take care of you this whole time, you know.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
So yeah, it's it's real, man, And that's.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
The story of the Haitian Revolution in a like as
we'll keep getting to it, like even the free people
of color, like not even that there's a distinction people
color being the mixed race people in this in this context,
uh huh, Like eventually they're gonna get kicked out of
the white supremacy too.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
You know, you can't and you can't stay. Yeah, especially
out here, especially with all these like immigration things you
know happening, like who's shutting down the freeway. It's actually
been kind of beautiful. Yeah, but like all of them
are looking at the whole Latinos for Trump movement, and
they're just like you see, you see what you've done
to your own people, and you say you're doing the
right thing, you.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
Know, But eventually they're coming for them too.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
They coming for you too, Like, don't you like what
don't you see about this, Like they they'll pat you
on the back and they'll put you all you know,
like good Kanye when he when he was still cool,
like yeah, put him all in the front of us
stow like yeah they yeah, He'll put you in front
of the He'll put you on the stage you're talking
to rally. Yeah, okay, just.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Wait and then one day they won't and one day
they won't yup.
Speaker 4 (30:05):
Yeah. Fuck.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
And so in seventeen eighty five, France passed a law
that gave more authority to the state to check in
on plantations and the treatment of people. They were like,
we're going to actually start punishing slavers. You could now
get murder charges if you killed an enslaved person, And
so white people started saying shit like and this is
(30:28):
a literal quote from a plantation manager, and it just
sounds like it's said today quotes.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
Cannot wait for this.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
If the ordinance is upheld, it would be better to
be a good slave than to be a manager, a
plantation attorney, or even a proprietor. I would say, the
more I see, the more I understand that they want
to free the slaves and put whites under the yoke.
Speaker 4 (30:54):
That fucking amazing, markret.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Like you can a on the Twitter right now and
find the richest man in the world, be like straight
white men or the real oppressed minority.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
Listen, it's that's what's really was happening. Yeah, yes, is
the truth is they hate us, That's what it is.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
I'm just saying, don't kill a bit. I'm just saying
it's a crime. You committing a crime, That's all I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
And it's like we're not even saying freedom. Yeah, we're
not even we're not Yeah, I'm just saying yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
And so local governments start refusing to enforce this new
French law they can't kill people.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
You're fine, don't worry about it.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Racial tensions start getting worse and worse. There's this whole
middle class of free black people and or rather more
accurate to say free people of color, the race hierarchy
and send themong went white mixed race people usually call
people of color in this context, and black people at
the bottom, and then of course the slave people below
all of that. Yeah, any of those people can be free,
(32:06):
any of them can own enslaved people. White people aren't
allowed to be enslaved, but people of color and black
people are.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
And for a long ass time, the free people of
color very much saw themselves as not black, and they
generally identified with their white ancestry. Early colonists in San
Demong were mostly men, and they were encouraged early on,
for like one hundred years, they were encouraged to marry
black and slaved women, convert them those women to Catholicism,
and then free them. And so you have a bunch
(32:36):
of mixed race people who are literally the aristocracy and shit.
It seems to be an inversion of what I understand
of like how shit works in the United States, where
it was like, you know, you have a white man
has black kids, and then they're immediately slaves and not acknowledged.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
Yeah you're still slaves.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Yeah, And in this case, it was like no, no, no,
me and my free wife have these kids. They're French,
you know. But by the secondcity of this whole huge group,
it's about as big as the white people, and which
are both tiny compared to the enslaved black population, of course,
by an order of magnitude. By the second half of
(33:13):
the seventeen hundreds, they start putting all these race restrictions
into place, and we tend to see things in history
foolishly as like linear, like oh, the world used to
be more racist and now it's less racist. But it's
actually an ebb and a flow. I think everyone who
lives in America right now knows this.
Speaker 3 (33:30):
We get it. Yeah, it's not a straight line. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
The sixteen eighty five Black Codes said that free people
at all the same rights as freeborn people. But suddenly
these rights start getting taken away. In seventeen sixty nine,
free men of color could no longer be officers in
the military. By seventeen seventy three, it became illegal for
free men of color to practice medicine or become teachers.
Then they're not allowed to dress like white people. Then
(33:55):
they're not allowed to take the names of their white fathers,
and they soon non white people can't be midwives. By
seventeen eighty you have forced conscription for men of color.
So within a generation their rights are just stripped away completely,
like they would pass laws like oh, as of today,
people of color can't use wheeled carriages or no more jewelry, sorry,
(34:18):
people of color. For it was a little while where
people of color couldn't wear shoes in public.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
What Yeah, I missed that one. That was a new one,
Like yeah, yeah there were shoes. Like if you imagine that,
you imagine the police being like, hey hey Margaret, yeah, uh,
mission just totally misgender you and then are like, now
you gotta take off your shoes.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
Yeah, sorry, what the Yeah, it's just like why are
you why? Yeah, And they're saying this to some of
the people who were like the aristocracy, you know.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
That's the bonker's part to where it's like I I
was in tennis class with you. Yeah, we played croquet together.
What are you talking about?
Speaker 4 (35:03):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (35:04):
Your mom baby sat us? Yeah what yeah?
Speaker 2 (35:07):
We all agree.
Speaker 4 (35:08):
I'm not black like that person.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Yeah all black.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
And then the white men who were married to black
women started to have their nobility denied and stripped from them.
So now it was like miscegenation laws also on top
of it all.
Speaker 3 (35:24):
Yeah you did all that race mixing. Yeah, you dirtied yourself,
all right.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
And then you get into this weird thing where so
people of color weren't allowed to take their white family
name anymore. They had to take on quote African names.
And it's fascinating because overall, right, Like rejecting some name
like Jean Jacques and taking a name like an African
name is like a yeah, a positive reclamation in most.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
Of Yeah, I'm like, you say, you're making them reclaim
their African side. Yep, y'all don't hear y'allself?
Speaker 4 (35:56):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Yeah, They're like they could have just basically been white
people and fought for you. You know, they would have
fought against the Slaver vault if you had let them.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
Yeah. So now und Miso und Miso Mafu right who
used to be to loose La Trek I don't know? Yeah, yeah, right,
So now it's like, okay, well I guess I'm ind
Miso now.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
Yeah, and I guess I fight on the side of
the Africans.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
Fuck it, yeah, you know, you know totally.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
And so all of these rich white dudes who have
black wives and children of color, they start fleeing for
France with their wife and kids, and it's this whole
other level of white fragility, not like white fragility is
like white people being fragile, but white fragility, like whiteness itself,
is fragile. Yes, yes, and uh, all of the suppression
(36:46):
of even free people starts coming to a head because
in seventeen eighty nine we got the French Revolution, which
came out of nowhere, much like these ads.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
You did it again, you did it again.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
So it gets me up on Thursday mornings the day
I record.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
Yes, amazing, here they are and we're back.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
So one of these days I'll probably do the French Revolution.
But I kind of don't care that much about the
French Revolution because it's like mostly rich people and it's like,
I don't know whatever.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
Yeah, kind of didn't Yeah, it kind of didn't go
deep enough. But yeah too. Yeah, yeah, but they're why
we called it right and left. So like there, that's true.
That's a thing.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Yeah, and the French Revolution is a big deal and
it affected a lot of stuff. They also there's this
thing where people basically say, oh, the French Revolution kicked
off the Haitian Revolution because it exported the ideas of
liberty to the people who had never heard of it
before in Haiti, and that's obviously like paternalistic and wrong.
(37:55):
It's all right, but it did fundamentally disrupt the empire
that was in charge.
Speaker 3 (38:02):
Yeah, there's a reality of again, like connecting the now
when you when when you see a kink in the armor,
when the reality of like this person that they can
get touched like you, oh you could get touched, like
you're not invincible, and what and what that germ does
of like, oh this, we could win this. You know
(38:23):
that to me. So it's not that it kicked it off.
It was just like you said, in the paternalistic way,
but in the idea of saying, oh.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Actually things can change around here.
Speaker 3 (38:32):
Yeah no, big hoby. Yeah, it's like, oh, you don't
have backup.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
Yeah wait a minute, yeah you.
Speaker 3 (38:38):
Don't have backup now. Okay, oh we're good now.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
It's like the first time if you've ever seen the
cops retreat from you, yes, you will never forget what
it is like to watch them get in their squad
cars and drive away.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
Yeah you know.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
It changes the understanding of power completely.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
It just it's it's it's mind blowing. When I realized, man,
these these big burly men are more scared of me. Yeah,
you scared of me? And I was like oh yeah,
yo hoh. Posture change is like yeah, yeah, actually you
know what, No, you may not see my ID.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
And that's even why they're dangerous, so they're afraid to you,
you know.
Speaker 3 (39:19):
Yeah, exactly, yeah, you know, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
So the French Revolution seventeen eighty nine, a group calling
itself the French National Assembly was set up. People stormed
the Bastille in Paris. We talked about this on our
prison Break episode a while ago. It was a pretty
good prison break. And then the King Louis the sixteenth
was like, all right, fine, you can be a real group.
Speaker 4 (39:39):
You've scared me enough.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
They wrote up a declaration of the rights of Man
and citizen. And there are all kinds of folks from
Sandemong living in France at the time, and they want
to be part of the revolution. And you have two
different factions. You have a bunch of white people who
are desperately trying to make sure that the revolution doesn't
expand to include black people people of color. They're like
(40:01):
that's their thing. They're like, we're part of this as
long as we make sure it doesn't disrupt white supremacy
in Haiti, yeah, or in sand Demong. But there's also
free black people and people of color and invest as
I can tell, they're like white family and friends who
are fighting that for the new constitution. Of France to include.
Some people are arguing for abolition, but that's not the
big thing. They're arguing that free black people and the
(40:23):
colonies and shit should have like the right to.
Speaker 4 (40:25):
Vote and stuff.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
In March seventeen ninety, the Colonial Committee of the French
Revolution was like, the new constitution doesn't apply to the
colonies because we can't risk upsetting our rich white supremacist planters.
So they just like chicken out. They come around. The
revolution is still underway in France. Things are in turmoil.
A man named Vincent Ouje, he's a mixed race guy
(40:48):
from Sandomong. He had been he was a free man.
He had been in France and then he went home
to sand Humong and he was like, it's time to
stand up to the colonial authorities. We should bring the
French Revolution to the colonies. Not free the enslaved people,
but us people of color, slavers. We should get our rights.
So they threw an armed rally called the Oja Rebellion.
(41:10):
And these are not leftists, like, these are property owning
people of color who the majority of them are slavers. Yeah,
and the colonial authority is like, oh fuck no, because
they don't owe their allegiance to the rich. They don't
owe their allegiance to slavery, they owe their allegiance to
white supremacy.
Speaker 3 (41:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
And so the military breaks up this demonstration and arrests
two hundred and twenty six of them. Oja and another
guy were tortured and beheaded and their heads were put
on pikes, which is a specific symbol. This is what
happens to slave rebellions. Yeah, so this is saying you
are all the same to us.
Speaker 3 (41:51):
Yeah. Yeah, And twenty.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
Three people were executed. Fifteen of them were branded and
then given life imprisonment on a chain gang. Forty four
people were tried in absentia. Two of them were executed
in effigy like they made dummies of the people and
then like tortured and killed the dummies as like a
public spectacle. Weird, which is such a good way to
show we are terrified of you. Yes, yes, you have
(42:16):
so much power over us. And this protest it failed
in the short term, but on May fifteenth, seventeen ninety one,
a couple months after the leaders of the demonstration had
been killed, the French Revolution was like, all right, political
rights for free people of color in the colonies. If
you're born free to free parents and you own shit
(42:37):
and you're a man, you can vote, got it?
Speaker 3 (42:41):
Yeah? Perfect.
Speaker 2 (42:42):
There's only a couple hundred people in Sandumong who.
Speaker 3 (42:45):
Mactually like, I was like, that's like five people. Yeah, okay,
but yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
And this was too much for the white supremacist slavers.
Speaker 4 (42:56):
They couldn't handle it.
Speaker 3 (42:58):
Now it's like right now that's ned and Yahoo's cabinet. Yeah,
they're like ceasefire never. Yeah. I'm like, you're out of bullets.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
You've killed them. They're dead.
Speaker 3 (43:14):
They're dead. There's no one left it. What do you
You leveled the city?
Speaker 2 (43:20):
Yeah? I know it's not enough.
Speaker 3 (43:24):
It's not enough. Or do you want and like and
you're about to sail land you don't own? Yeah, to America.
That's not enough. Yeah, fuck goddamn it.
Speaker 2 (43:40):
I mean everything's gonna be fine. And so, in response
to a couple hundred people of color suddenly being their
equals legally, they they start planning their own revolution. They're
gonna they're planning to break free from France to defend
their right to be white supremacists.
Speaker 3 (43:59):
This is their revolution call.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
But they're they're not the only people plotting a revolution.
This is not an ad transition. I almost wish it was, uh,
because suddenly a bunch of different groups of people who
did not see themselves as part of the same group
now have all their interests aligned. You have the unskilled
enslaved people, you have the skilled enslaved people. You have
the free black people, and the free people of color,
(44:25):
including the slavers among them, who are suddenly forced onto
the same side.
Speaker 1 (44:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:32):
So they had a revolution.
Speaker 3 (44:35):
Yeah. Man, the the stubbornness of your racism just working
against you. Yeah, I mean, is this not history rhyming?
Speaker 4 (44:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
This was one of the things, the biggest things I
got wrong in like twenty fifteen. I was I plotted
out this science fiction novel about like set in like
twenty forty, and in it, I was assuming that like
right wing nationalism was going to take over the US,
but it was going to do it by being like
woke right wing nationalism. Okay, it was going to be
(45:14):
like trans inclusive, all women army units like the fascists
and stuff, you know. Yeah, and like they were gonna
be like as long as you're American, you're American. We
don't care what color you are. If you're gay or whatever,
as long as you're willing to enforce a terrible empire
that conquers the entire world. Yeah, yeah, because I thought
that was the direction things were going, and then nope,
(45:36):
they went back to their old strongest card, just raw racism.
Speaker 3 (45:40):
Just yeah, like you are you you keep lowering your
own like pool of resources. Yeah, you you just keep
telling the most skilled and most qualified people in our
country that they need not even apply. Yeah, like, oh, okay, well,
I guess I'm a diversity higher. I only have four
(46:01):
more degrees than this food. Yeah, I don't know. I
guess I'm a diversity higher. So mean, y'all go ahead, Dan,
Do you know it's.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
Like just I get lost thinking about that ship becau
I'm thinking aboutw It's just like some of the best
programmers in the world are trans women, because there's so
many obviously not all I'm not a programmer, right, yeah,
and awful disproportionate number of the best programmers in this
world are trans women. And to be like, oh no,
(46:29):
they're all diversity higres, they gotta go, and you're like.
Speaker 3 (46:31):
You just so you wait, wait, wait, let me get
this straight. Like even if yeah, I'm just like even
if I'm racist. Yeah, I'm like, wait, hold hold on now,
like she's really good, Like she's really good at this.
Speaker 2 (46:44):
Yeah, all I got does color a girl and she's
down to the program.
Speaker 3 (46:49):
Like yeah it's fine. Yeah, yeah, she doesn't even care
what we're making. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (46:56):
And so just the because again, there's like this whole
thing where in eighteen oh four when Haiti starts to
spoiler alert, there's gonna be a thing that's called the
mass courgenocide depends on who's writing it, where yeah, a
couple thousand white people are killed, and like it's presented
as like all the white people are killed. And first
of all, this because there weren't that many white people
left on the island at that point, but also they
(47:16):
weren't all killed, and we're gonna talk about that. But
like if you just say that totally out of nowhere,
you're like, oh, this sounds kind of bad, right, And
you're like, who made it a race war?
Speaker 3 (47:28):
Yes? Yeah, like yeah, you did you ask what is yeah? Yeah,
yeah absurd.
Speaker 2 (47:36):
But what I'm asking for is your plugs. Because that's
the end of part three, because we're gonna talk about
the revolution itself in part four.
Speaker 3 (47:44):
Finally, man, we're gonna talk about the pew pews. Uh yeah, dude,
the politics pod. I've been trying to like get better
at ways to be in contact with people that are
interested in what I do. So yeah, like so prop
hip hop dot Com that has like you could sign
up for, like the newsletter, you could sign up for
(48:05):
the for the text messaging service. So the text message
and stuff is like, if I'm in town, I'll text you,
Oh that's cool, I'm doing a show.
Speaker 2 (48:14):
Yeah, and just like works by zip code or something
like that.
Speaker 4 (48:17):
Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 3 (48:18):
It just I'll be like, hey, where do you live? Yeah? Uh, Toadsuck, Arkansas?
All right, Hey, I'm gonna be doing a show somewhere
close to there.
Speaker 4 (48:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:28):
People in Arkansas are gonna drive a little further for
shows than people on the mid Atlantic.
Speaker 3 (48:32):
You know.
Speaker 1 (48:33):
Yeah, I have.
Speaker 3 (48:34):
I have performed in Toadsuck, Arkansas.
Speaker 2 (48:36):
Oh okay cool.
Speaker 3 (48:38):
That's why I always pull that stadia out because I'm like,
I know that one anyway. But yeah, prophitpop dot Com.
There's the hood politics thing, there's a newsletter, there's a
music We're gonna start rolling out a ton of music
this year. I'm super excited about So yeah, man prop
hip hop dot Com.
Speaker 2 (48:53):
Hell yeah, if you want to follow me. My next
book comes out this summer and it's called The Immortal
Holds Every Voice and it is a third book in
the Daniel Kaine series. And if you look it up
on Kickstarter you can get information about that. It's going
to kickstart in March. And you're like, what if I've
never heard it before, Well, you're in luck because I
read Robert Evans the first of these books on cools
(49:13):
on Media book clubs. So if you look up The
Lamb Will Slaughter the Lion, you will find me reading
it to Robert. And also one of the rewards for
the Kickstarter is going to be audiobooks of me reading
all three books, so if people have never heard it before,
you can hear all of it.
Speaker 3 (49:28):
So dope. I wish I would have done more on
the Dinah Wars.
Speaker 2 (49:32):
Oh, Dinah Wars is still going on. You still have
a chance to do Dinahars.
Speaker 3 (49:35):
I saw have a chance. Like I've been trying to
come up with an angle. You guys are so good
at this. I'm like, what's the angle? What's the angle? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (49:42):
People want every Sunday, I think on this feed and
on the it could happen here feed. I've been doing
Dinah Wars twenty fifty five how to Survive, and it's
been fun and eventually Propa is going to do part
of an episode.
Speaker 3 (49:56):
I'm going to figure it out, man, I'm going to
figure it out. Yeah, some sort of, I would, because
I was trying to come down a music angle of
like something where it's just like for like two decades
artists just gave up, like they were just like forget it, dude.
Speaker 2 (50:09):
Like we tried there's no money in it more at all,
Like yeah, there's.
Speaker 3 (50:12):
Like there's no money, like yeah, all your favorite artists
are AI, you know. And we tried to tell y'all
like all the way back to like the gunp the dude.
You know what I'm saying, Like we've been trying to
forget it. That's what y'all want. But like maybe there's
one guy that's like, come on, guys, let's try, you know.
So that's kind of what I was kind of coming with.
Speaker 4 (50:31):
Nah it's good, But.
Speaker 2 (50:32):
Anyway, Okay, dear listener, you should bug Prop to write
a song as if Prop has written it in the
year twenty fifty five.
Speaker 3 (50:41):
Okay, that you just get You just gave me the idea. Now,
now that's what I'm doing.
Speaker 2 (50:45):
Cool all right, all right, Well, I'll see everyone on
Wednesday when we tell you more about the Haitian Revolution.
Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of
cool Zone Media.
Speaker 1 (51:00):
For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website
Foolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Cool Zone Media.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Hello, and welcome to Cool People who did cool stuff.
You're a weekly reminder that while bad things happen, people
do kind of amazing things in the middle of bad things.
I'm your host, Margat Kiljoy and my guest today it's propw.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Are you hey excited to hear about somebody group of
people that did cool things in this Black History Month.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Yeah, they're gonna do some really fucking cool things, some
really cool stuff. Yeah. And our producer is Sophie Just kidding,
I mean well, Sophie star producer.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
Actually he's not on mic right now.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
She's still a producer.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
But yeah, our audio engineers Rory. Everyone's sills to say
hi to Rory.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Hi, Rory sor Ry.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Our theme musical was written for Spy on Woman and
this is the three parter. I am really impressed by
any listener who's starting with part three. Your brain works
differently than mine, you are.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Yeah, that is a wild, a wild choice. Yeah, I
feel like you know what that is. I feels like
first born energy of like I am not going back
to No, this is where we are, and like what
you I'm telling you, if you just go back to
part one and two, it may make no, I already
started it. That's what we're doing.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
I think that's a very accurate I could say this
as the youngest, like yeah, yeah, no, I'm the youngest too,
that's why I yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
Yeah, totally yeah, just like watching my sister and I'm
just like, I really think there's a better way for
us to do this.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
And then well, the youngest we get to be the
most adventurouses we feel the least responsible.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Totally.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
But in parts one and two, for anyone who didn't listen,
or for people who want the catching up, we talked
about the history of Sandomong as the French colony was
called the western half of the island now Haiti, and
we talked about the religion Vodom, and we talked a
lot about how that led to a bunch of uprisings.
We talked about a guy named Macndahl who history and
(01:58):
legend has as a mass poisoner, but it was probably
still really interesting living outside the system, doing his own
thing with his followers and then got burned at the stake.
And then and this part actually feels at least as
true as anything else, he cheated death, turned into a mosquito,
and later basically wiped out all the invading armies.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
So bit a bunch of booties.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's how you get things done, you know.
So the thing is setting one guy on fire for
a witchcraft doesn't actually end the hysteria. Even though the
colonial authorities were like, we have caught all the ring leaders,
for decades after enslave people kept getting caught up in
(02:43):
basically an inquisition. Slavers kept torturing enslaved people into false confessions.
So this is why there's like evidence about all this
poisons that we have all these confessions. They were like, hey,
I'm gonna drown this guy in front of you, So
what are.
Speaker 4 (02:58):
You going to do about that? You know?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yeah, And so people were getting like burned alive and
drowned and all the stuff. You go from alive to
dead in the worst possible ways, and they were being
called Mackandall's in the seventeen seventies, so like fifteen years.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
After that guy died.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Wow, the fear of poison and the persecution. I didn't
realize how deep this went. The persecution of supposed poisoners
was a huge part of colonial life, just like everyday
life for decades people were just like, oh, the voodoo
in the woods, and also they're all going to poison us,
and you're like, well, the vodoo in the woods is real.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
Yeah, that's just a religion. People are doing it.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Yeah, yeah, very much. The Dei of its time. It's
just gonna come kill us.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
There are so many weird overlaps with today.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
I've always been really fascinated by the Haitian Revolution because
of how it ties into us abolitionism and stuff. I
didn't realize just how much as a hopeful version of
what we're looking at right now, like because usually you
look at like, oh some well, we'll get to it.
I'll tell you about it as but one of the
(04:11):
first weird overlaps of the modern times. You know what
the colonists were doing. They were vaccine denying. They are
the first anti vax people in the history of the world.
I mean other people are probably doing it at the
same time, but this is before vaccines. Because one of
(04:33):
the histories of vaccines is you have smallpox right just
going around killing everyone, and people figured out, all right, well,
if we take the tiniest bit of smallpox, we can
inoculate ourselves and survive and smart people were like, all right,
we're gonna do that. But most of the colonists were like, no,
(04:54):
people aren't dying of smallpox. People are dying of poison
because the black people are poisoning everyone.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
That's what these bumps are. It's the bumps they working
the roots on you. Oh man yo QAnon COVID head ass.
It's like, yeah, COVID is fake and China gave it
to us word.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Yeah yeah, got hi one all right, yes, yeah both yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
I think this is so so special and like for
a number of reasons, because it's like, all right, first
of all, to your point, for someone to say, to
cure this horrible disease, I just need to take a
little bit of that disease and put it on me.
It sounds absurd, like you know, it's true. It sounds
(05:43):
upshurd off the top where I would be like, yeah,
I don't know, fam, that's sound the wait, but I
don't have it, so you're gonna give it to me?
Speaker 2 (05:50):
Like yes, so stay away from me.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
I thought I should stay away from you. But to
go from that to well, obviously it's they gotta they
got dolls with nail in it, and the nails, like,
that's what's happening.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Yeah, that's so much more realistic.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
That's so much more realistic.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Yeah, And so doctors and scientists and all the people
were actually like paying attention to what was going on,
kept telling everyone it wasn't even just like like you
kind of have this thing where the colonial authorities are
a little bit like, hey, could y'all stop being a
bunch of idiots, and everyone's like, no, we will not.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
You're not here, you don't see what's happening.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, So small boxes running rampant. Some
people are starting to inoculate themselves and then also inoculate
the people.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
That they own.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Yeah, but a lot of people are ignoring all that
and blaming black people. And then the other thing that
was running rampant was anthrax. And I don't know a
ton about anthrax. From my point of view. Anthrax is
like a thing that gets mailed to people in the
late nineties or early aughts or whatever.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Yeah, some sort of some sort of band, Yeah that
the racist white kids liked.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
Yeah, totally totally. And but anthrax is this, you know, disease,
and that ye killing a lot of people specifically, is
killing livestock populations, and it shouldn't have then killed any
people because it would have just killed the animals. But
instead the white people decided to starve all the black
people to death, and so people were left with no
(07:15):
food to.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
Eat besides infected meat.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Smart.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Yeah, exactly, it worked out really well for everyone, so
quote that author John D.
Speaker 4 (07:23):
Garrigus.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
Although cases of human anthrax were rare in France, they
were common in sant Dumong because the colony was designed
to produce famine among the enslaved to save labor and land,
planters and their agents routinely decided to buy food rather
than produce their own. This maximized sugar profits and made
their workers food supply vulnerable. Plantation life exposed enslaved people
(07:46):
to anthrax in many ways. And again physicians were like,
it's an epidemic of anthrax. We can dissect these animals
and see, and slavers are like, nope, it's them, dastardly
enslave people.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
They're putting the hecks on the beef.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Really, we're cursing the beef, got it, Yeah, the one
that we're eating, like you, we cursed our own food.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
And so Basically, you have all these slavers being like, well,
I want to kill one guy that I own in
order to frighten everyone else to confessing into poison. Which works.
You can get people to confess to poison if you
kill their friend in front of them.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Other people in town were like, no, this is small
pox and anthrox. We have we have the we have
studies on this.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
It's happening everywhere else too, It's not just here.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
So I don't think their voodoo's that powerful. I'm pretty sure. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
As the century winds down, slavers are getting worse and worse.
You have these poison inquisitions and slave people are being
buried alive. Saw Island continues to be Saw Island. To
continue to not watch the Saw movies, but I continue
this metaphor.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
You're not missing anything, Margaret.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
Yeah, that's that's really the best I can tell.
Speaker 3 (08:59):
Yeah, you're not missing anything.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
As repression ramped up, there was two different groups that
started trying to address that repression of enslaved people, and
both of these actually ended up kind of paving the
way for the revolution. And one of them is the courts. Okay,
because we were talking earlier about how like the courts were like, hey,
you can't treat enslaved people really bad. But then the yea,
(09:23):
or rather France told the local courts, hey you can't
do this, and the local courts are like, we don't care.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
We're gonna do whatever we want.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
And this led to this almost counter revolution. Like Okay,
I've said a million times on the show, I consider
the American Revolution of counter revolution. You have the white
supremacist aristocracy against a like politically moderate monarchy. The white
nationalists like George Washington spun a whole fairy tale about
liberty in order to get poor whites to go die
for the rich people, so American coluinists could invade the
(09:51):
indigenous lands west of the Appalachians. And before the Haitian
Revolution there was almost this same kind of thing. Colonists
started getting mad at France telling them what to do
because the colonists wanted to be even more racist.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
Than the mainland French people.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Yeah, and so you end up with these two revolutions
kind of racing, like going side by side in opposition
to each other. There is the white slavers, and not
even all the slavers, but specifically the white ones and
then you have the enslaved people. Sandomong was hit by
a bunch of really hard times in the seventies. The
(10:30):
seventeen seventies obviously. Yeah, I guess so lost in reading
history books that I'm like, I know more about the
seventeen seventies this week.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Yeah than the nineteen seventies.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Yeah, although that's it. I know an awful lot about
the nineteen seventies. It's the twenty twenties I'm not caught
up on, like.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
You still feel like do you feel like the seventies
was thirty years ago? Still?
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Yeah, it wasn't, And I don't understand how could it
not be?
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, it's fifty years.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Do you ever think about how you're like listening to like,
like in the nineties when I was a kid, you know,
as a teenager, the classic rock was like weird old shit, right, yeah,
and like that shit is more recent than the shit
I was listening to in the nineties.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
Yes, yes, Like, man, when people go they're gonna put
on old school hip hop and then they play like
Wu Tang and I'm like, you mean run DMC, Like no, no,
that's ancient. We mean Wu Tang and I'm like, oh dang.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Yeah yeah, and I know, oh, any album that came
out after I became an adult is new.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
That is the perfect way to put it. That is
the perfect that's perfect. I'm just like, oh, yeah, it
just happened, like remembering that two thousand was twenty five
years ago. Yes, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
What as the two oldest people at cool Zone the
too old Yeah, yes, all right. So in the seventeen seventies,
famine hit because the winter in France was so cold
that the ports froze over, so food wasn't imported from there,
and all of the sugar planters were like, we don't
(12:04):
grow food, we only import food. And then seventeen seventy six,
the British had that whole war with the colonies and
they blockaded North America and this reduced the amount of
food coming in even further. And so this is when
you start having all the enslaved people literally digging up
the animals that died of anthrax because they're starving to
death day and the colonial administration in Haiti had to
(12:26):
straight up order the planters to plant food, to allow
the enslaved people to plant the food that they could eat. Themselves.
But the planters refused that that was there, Like, oh,
this is a step too far. They're telling us that
we have to let people grow food to feed themselves.
Speaker 3 (12:43):
That's it.
Speaker 4 (12:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
The court started offering really limited I'm not trying to
play up how great the court was here, but it
plays into the revolution. The court started offering really limited
protections to enslave people, the tiniest amounts. At one point,
ten enslave people showed up at court with burns all
over their bodies from all the torture that they had faced,
and the court was like, well, you do got to
(13:08):
go back to your slaver, but we're gonna tell him
that if any of you are killed or sold, he's
in trouble.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
So dread Scott head ass. That is awful and also
so familiar. Yeah, just yeah, lay that on so many things.
It's like, hey, listen, yeah, okay, man, I know he
slapped the shit out of you, but I'm gonna tell him, Hey,
next time you put your hands on that lady, we're coming. Yeah. Okay, thanks,
(13:37):
thanks dude. Appreciated courts. Yeah, it feels so safe now.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Yeah, and this is too much for the slavers. They
start rebelling against the colonial administration because of the slap
on the wrists.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
They because they gently said that there is a way
to keep your investment alive.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Yeah. Y, this is what actually really drove me. It
really interested me because I used to think of slavery
in the West as like an economic arrangement, and that's
the wrong way to look at it. It really is
a white supremacist arrangement. Like at its core, it is
about power even more than economy.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
But all this horrible abuse that enslave people are facing,
they it as it's I don't want to I can't
really say as things got worse because it's already like
the place where the life expectancies like two years, but
it somehow gets worse. Yeah, and so they start responding
even more. You have all these maroon communities, like we've
talked about, there was probably amongst all the poison hysteria
(14:43):
people also poisoning. Being like, well, you gave me a
good idea, and I do have accessed all this anthrax meat,
so I'm sure that some people are getting poisoned, but
we don't have any evidence of that. Yeah, But one
tactic that got used a lot that I have not
personally read about in a comparable situation. They went on.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Strike, they just stopped working.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Like labor strikes, they would just leave the plantation, but
not to run away, just like, until our demands are met,
we're not going to work. And this is fucking high stakes, right.
If you fail, you die. Yeah, but their backs are
against the wall anyway. If they don't strike and get
(15:23):
their conditions better, they're going to die.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
And honestly, these are some of the most inspiring labor
strikes I've ever read about my life.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Amazing. I never read it in terms of labor strike.
I never thought of it as that means that's exactly
what it is.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Yeah, and it Yeah, And it's interesting because like we
talked about on the first episodes, you were on on
about how the you know see all our James talked
about how the South did a general strike during the war. Yeah,
but that's still kind of a like, I mean, that's true,
they did a general strike, but it wasn't quite a like, hey,
we have the following demands and we're we're going to
withdraw our labor until Yeah, this was a fuck labor
(16:00):
strike and it was like, I don't know, I don't
remember exactly where this maps to, like England having labor strikes,
but this is fucking early.
Speaker 3 (16:09):
Yeah, I like, yeah, I would have never like, but
that's what it is. I would have never thought of
it that way because yeah, like this, you know, in
the Southern States, if you are a chattel slave at
the time and y'all going to war, it's like, well,
you gon't die tomorrow. So like I'm not I'm not working, yeah,
(16:31):
you know, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
So at the first one I read about, at an
a state called the Breta Estate, twenty five out of
the one hundred enslaved workers fucked off on a strike
in response to these poison inquisitions. And so, in a
weird way, the poison hysteria did was like a domino
that helped bring down the slave empire because these inquisitions
were too much for people, so they walked off the
(16:54):
job and they short term marooned with a quarter of
the workforce gone. The owner listened to his nephew use
the foreman was like, it's poison, and the nephews were like, hey,
we read science and it's not poison.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
Actually I can read you know, yeah, yeah, you'll oversee
your can't read. I can read.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Yeah, And so the workers returned after the foreman was fired,
and they got you know.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
The inquisition stopped.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
And at this place there's a guy who I'm not
actually gonna talk about nearly as much as I expected to.
They had a coachman working for him named Toussaint Luvitour,
who ends up being one of the heroes of the revolution.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
The man dude.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, And an unlikely class of heroes arose
during the strikes. This part, okay, this part really surprised me.
The people who left these strikes were the most privileged
enslaved people. Yeah, the skilled laborers, the field laborers did
shit too. I'm not trying to dismiss this, Yeah, but
the so you have, like, for example, the people who
(17:55):
make the sugar instead of tending the crops, they have
more like they're harder to replace. You have to get
trained into the job more. The coachmen were doing a
lot of the revolutionary stuff and the strikes. But the
thing that surprised me is that there were the drivers,
basically the slave drivers, right. And the slave drivers were
also enslaved people, but they were like giving whips and
(18:16):
better food and hit people and stuff. They were often
the people who led the strikes.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
This is one of the big start contrasts between America
and Haiti. Yeah, was this point between like, you know,
house workers and field workers that you know, in a
lot of ways to this day still is a sort
of a thing. But like that, you know, obviously I'm
making a gross generalization, but that's one thing that specifically
(18:46):
was was very different to where they were, like, oh,
you you treating me nicely. Don't change the fact that
I'm a slate. Like, nah, I'm with them, yeah, uh huh.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
The fact that white people made this a race war
is the reason that the whole thing fell apart, which
gives is the thing that gives me hope with the
modern era of like kicking out like banning dei or
whatever the fuck you know. Yeah, and so yeah, the
quote unquote privileged enslave people are a huge part of
(19:20):
the revolution leading up to it and during it. And
this is a paragraph where I wrote what you just said,
so I'll just skip that. In May of seventeen eighty two,
people working at the Noah Estate went on strike and
they shut the place down for a week. And these
are like two separate strikes, as the field strike and
(19:41):
the sugar factory strike. Yeah, and the two drivers are
the people who at least get the credit for leading
this Hipolte was the field driver and a man named
Jean Jacques, who's not Jean Jacques de Salinaeus, who's more
important later?
Speaker 3 (19:56):
Yeah's your hero later?
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Yeah, Yeah, but Jean ends up actually one of the
heroes of the early parts of the revolution. One hundred
and forty field workers left the estate, then came back
twenty four hours later, and then the skilled laborers left
for nine days. And I believe this strike was successful
and they got their immediate demands met. Jean Jacques is
an interesting fellow. He's later going to become one of
(20:19):
the early leaders of the revolution. I am not aware
of him having a last name, which is of course common.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
He was a crafts person. He was basically the person
who made the sugar production happen, and he was higher
in authority than a lot of the white employees on
the estate. And the owner had kept promising like, oh,
I'm totally gonna let you go. Like the yeah, the
old owner like in his will was like you should
totally let this guy go one day, you know, and
it didn't happen.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
Well, Thomas Jefferson Stez.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Yeah, yeah, he does get free, but by a little
bit more of a direct route later exactly, and after
these successful strikes, these two drivers, they're punished by putting
them into internal exile. They are fired without being freed,
so they are unemployed slaves.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
Syop dude.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
They I know, they get paid for ending the strike,
Like I think there's all like thanks for ending the strike,
here some money, like I think it's like part of
the negotiations. But then they're left with nothing to do,
but like hang out on the plantation. They can't leave. Yeah,
so they became revolutionaries.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
I mean you idle hands, yeah, idle hands. Yeah, y'all
gave me the time. Yeah, I didn't have time. Now
I got time. Yeah, y'all's fault.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
This plantation, the Noah Plantation, less than a decade later,
is going to be one of the first places to revolt.
But you know who, we would never revolt against.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
Oh, we better not.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
I don't know if that's a comparison. I feel a
good making but.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
I mean we have many times, but yeah, but now
we won't.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
But we we love our goods and services being employed.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
So listen, man, you notion you gotta swim.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Yeah, and here's what we're swimming in. It adds.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
And we're back.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
So the strikers would say things like we're not going
to do night work anymore, or we want a right
to choose our managers among I think amongst themselves, or
they would be protesting like one of the skilled laborers
would you know, be seen as unruly and get demoted
to field work or something. And so it's very similar
(22:39):
types of demands as what wage laborers will end up
going on strike for, you know, one hundred years from now.
And sometimes the strikes make conditions better. Sometimes they make
the conditions worse, but dangerously to the slave empire. The
strikers are often appealing to the court systems for to
be intervene into into the labor demands. Meanwhile, I want
(23:02):
to tell a story about another diviner like Mackandal. In fact,
the Attorney General at the time called this woman Macndal's
second Coming. And her name is King Gay. She was
born in Congo. Then she was stolen, trafficked and sold
across the ocean. Her owner was as best as anyone
can tell a free black woman who let Kingay kind
(23:23):
of do her own thing as long as she paid
a monthly fee to her, which is again the like
that also happened sometimes in the States. You had people
being like, oh, yeah, you can go out and get
a job. I just get a cut, you know.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Yeah, totally.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
The education I got around slavery was very for good reason,
focused on the plantation system and like specifically the most
I don't know whatever, it's like, I feel like it's
useful to see the breadth of this really nasty harble system.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
You know. No, for real, I think the point you
made earlier about how this was really about white supremacy,
because there was a moment where this was not financially viable,
Like there was a moment where it stopped being actually
a good and like you said in the in the
first episode, to where it was like the chattel slavery
in North America was very much an upper crust like
(24:14):
sort of experience. But were you a northern freed educated
black person in the same way you've existed in the
rest of the world, and over time you have somebody
that works for you, you know that you would call
a slave, you know, and but like you said, there's
a stipend, you go just give me a cut, Like
(24:36):
this is our world. I have to own you, Okay,
I own you whatever that means. You know what I
mean totally.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
And it's interesting because the treatment of how even black
slavers started getting cut out of the system is going
to be a huge part of the revolution in a
way that I that was like the part that I
was like, oh, holy shit, but so so Kingaey For
two years seventeen eighty four to seventeen eighty five, she
worked as what I defined last time as a service magician,
(25:05):
similar to makendal, where you go around you help people
with shit and you you know, give evil charms and
help heal and do whatever needs doing. She and her
probably husband traveled around from plantation of plantation selling talismans.
She was probably a vodu practitioner, but the book that
I read that talked about her never used the word
vodu at anywhere. Is I kept running across this Everyone
(25:26):
who writes the history of the Haitian Revolution is completely
different politics from each other and completely different ideas about
which parts they need to include in like xcise. But
she would probably channel spirits. She would so she was
or she was channeled spirits. This is probably that she
let a la mount her and she spoke in a
channeled man's voice. And she is not really honestly a
(25:49):
hero here, and she's but it's more interesting and I
think ties.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
Into some of this stuff.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Okay, she had a strong following among enslaved people. I
believe she was revered. The it was phrased this she
was worshiped. I'm skeptical of that framing because.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
Yeah, that's that's laying on top of that.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Yeah, but she worked for a lot of slavers. The
commander of a local militia is one of her main benefactors.
She showed up and told him he'd been poisoned, and
so she saved him by pulling toads out of him,
one out of his head and one out of his side.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
Love it.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Yeah, And then she told him which of his enslaved
people had poisoned him, and so then he went and
killed a bunch of them.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
Yeah, don't love that.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Oh yeah, no, this is yeah, she's not a hero
and yeah, and so then he killed a bunch of
them and sold the rest. And then she was allowed
to live on his plantation, and he provided carriages and servants,
and the servants were enslaved people to help her travel
around and do her work, which by this point meant
that she would show up and accuse enslave people of
being poisonous. So she's part of this inquisition system and
(26:51):
then like watch those people get killed. She's probably taking
bribes from other enslaved people to be like, hey, I've
I got beef with this guy, can you go kill him?
Speaker 3 (27:00):
Yeah, I'm really tired of I'm really tired as Jean Pierre.
Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
But even she wasn't acceptable to the white supremacist institution.
She pissed off the wrong people. She got too big
for a breeches. In seventeen eighty five, the Attorney General
had her and Or probably has been arrested, and they
disappeared from the historical record. This was partly because they
were trying to keep revolt down. They were like, all
of these inquisitions are going badly, But it's just it's
(27:26):
like a, I don't know, I found the story really fascinating.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
It is, and it's also like you know, in parallels
for now, you know, it's not as simple. I can
speak for almost for all the cools on medias being like,
it's not so much that we're like partisan democrats, because
we're like, well, you guys, are you know, khaki beige?
You know, cream a mushroom soup anyway, Like so that's
(27:52):
not even like our lane. But dad being said, you know,
when it was time to push the line, we knew
where to stand. And when you're watching, you know, for example,
at least as a person of color, when you're watching
other people of color actually stand up and defend, you know,
(28:13):
the moves conservative movements to Donald Trump's movement, you know,
for whatever reasons they say they're doing. And a lot
of times among among I'm about to get into a
diatribe here, but a lot of times, like black capitalists,
they're like, you just got to get yours, Like this
is the world we're in, and it's like at the
end of the day, man, like you got to get yours.
You know. You we like Trump because you get to
(28:34):
the money, you know, and at some point, you know,
I don't care you could, you know, you teach you
you keep your kids from listening to hip hop, you
put them in private schools and make them never wear hoodies.
And wear suits and ties. But at the same but
at the end of the day, yeah, listen, you not
want of them, you know, and the day will come,
(28:55):
and when that day comes, you will look out at
the fact that you sold out your own community been
trying to take care of you this whole time, you know.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
So yeah, it's it's real, man, And that's.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
The story of the Haitian Revolution in a like as
we'll keep getting to it, like even the free people
of color, like not even that there's a distinction people
color being the mixed race people in this in this context,
uh huh, Like eventually they're gonna get kicked out of
the white supremacy too.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
You know, you can't and you can't stay. Yeah, especially
out here, especially with all these like immigration things you
know happening, like who's shutting down the freeway. It's actually
been kind of beautiful. Yeah, but like all of them
are looking at the whole Latinos for Trump movement, and
they're just like you see, you see what you've done
to your own people, and you say you're doing the
right thing, you.
Speaker 4 (29:42):
Know, But eventually they're coming for them too.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
They coming for you too, Like, don't you like what
don't you see about this, Like they they'll pat you
on the back and they'll put you all you know,
like good Kanye when he when he was still cool,
like yeah, put him all in the front of us
stow like yeah they yeah, He'll put you in front
of the He'll put you on the stage you're talking
to rally. Yeah, okay, just.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Wait and then one day they won't and one day
they won't yup.
Speaker 4 (30:05):
Yeah. Fuck.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
And so in seventeen eighty five, France passed a law
that gave more authority to the state to check in
on plantations and the treatment of people. They were like,
we're going to actually start punishing slavers. You could now
get murder charges if you killed an enslaved person, And
so white people started saying shit like and this is
(30:28):
a literal quote from a plantation manager, and it just
sounds like it's said today quotes.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
Cannot wait for this.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
If the ordinance is upheld, it would be better to
be a good slave than to be a manager, a
plantation attorney, or even a proprietor. I would say, the
more I see, the more I understand that they want
to free the slaves and put whites under the yoke.
Speaker 4 (30:54):
That fucking amazing, markret.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Like you can a on the Twitter right now and
find the richest man in the world, be like straight
white men or the real oppressed minority.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
Listen, it's that's what's really was happening. Yeah, yes, is
the truth is they hate us, That's what it is.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
I'm just saying, don't kill a bit. I'm just saying
it's a crime. You committing a crime, That's all I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
And it's like we're not even saying freedom. Yeah, we're
not even we're not Yeah, I'm just saying yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
And so local governments start refusing to enforce this new
French law they can't kill people.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
You're fine, don't worry about it.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Racial tensions start getting worse and worse. There's this whole
middle class of free black people and or rather more
accurate to say free people of color, the race hierarchy
and send themong went white mixed race people usually call
people of color in this context, and black people at
the bottom, and then of course the slave people below
all of that. Yeah, any of those people can be free,
(32:06):
any of them can own enslaved people. White people aren't
allowed to be enslaved, but people of color and black
people are.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
And for a long ass time, the free people of
color very much saw themselves as not black, and they
generally identified with their white ancestry. Early colonists in San
Demong were mostly men, and they were encouraged early on,
for like one hundred years, they were encouraged to marry
black and slaved women, convert them those women to Catholicism,
and then free them. And so you have a bunch
(32:36):
of mixed race people who are literally the aristocracy and shit.
It seems to be an inversion of what I understand
of like how shit works in the United States, where
it was like, you know, you have a white man
has black kids, and then they're immediately slaves and not acknowledged.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
Yeah you're still slaves.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Yeah, And in this case, it was like no, no, no,
me and my free wife have these kids. They're French,
you know. But by the secondcity of this whole huge group,
it's about as big as the white people, and which
are both tiny compared to the enslaved black population, of course,
by an order of magnitude. By the second half of
(33:13):
the seventeen hundreds, they start putting all these race restrictions
into place, and we tend to see things in history
foolishly as like linear, like oh, the world used to
be more racist and now it's less racist. But it's
actually an ebb and a flow. I think everyone who
lives in America right now knows this.
Speaker 3 (33:30):
We get it. Yeah, it's not a straight line. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
The sixteen eighty five Black Codes said that free people
at all the same rights as freeborn people. But suddenly
these rights start getting taken away. In seventeen sixty nine,
free men of color could no longer be officers in
the military. By seventeen seventy three, it became illegal for
free men of color to practice medicine or become teachers.
Then they're not allowed to dress like white people. Then
(33:55):
they're not allowed to take the names of their white fathers,
and they soon non white people can't be midwives. By
seventeen eighty you have forced conscription for men of color.
So within a generation their rights are just stripped away completely,
like they would pass laws like oh, as of today,
people of color can't use wheeled carriages or no more jewelry, sorry,
(34:18):
people of color. For it was a little while where
people of color couldn't wear shoes in public.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
What Yeah, I missed that one. That was a new one,
Like yeah, yeah there were shoes. Like if you imagine that,
you imagine the police being like, hey hey Margaret, yeah, uh,
mission just totally misgender you and then are like, now
you gotta take off your shoes.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
Yeah, sorry, what the Yeah, it's just like why are
you why? Yeah, And they're saying this to some of
the people who were like the aristocracy, you know.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
That's the bonker's part to where it's like I I
was in tennis class with you. Yeah, we played croquet together.
What are you talking about?
Speaker 4 (35:03):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (35:04):
Your mom baby sat us? Yeah what yeah?
Speaker 2 (35:07):
We all agree.
Speaker 4 (35:08):
I'm not black like that person.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
Yeah all black.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
And then the white men who were married to black
women started to have their nobility denied and stripped from them.
So now it was like miscegenation laws also on top
of it all.
Speaker 3 (35:24):
Yeah you did all that race mixing. Yeah, you dirtied yourself,
all right.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
And then you get into this weird thing where so
people of color weren't allowed to take their white family
name anymore. They had to take on quote African names.
And it's fascinating because overall, right, Like rejecting some name
like Jean Jacques and taking a name like an African
name is like a yeah, a positive reclamation in most.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
Of Yeah, I'm like, you say, you're making them reclaim
their African side. Yep, y'all don't hear y'allself?
Speaker 4 (35:56):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Yeah, They're like they could have just basically been white
people and fought for you. You know, they would have
fought against the Slaver vault if you had let them.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
Yeah. So now und Miso und Miso Mafu right who
used to be to loose La Trek I don't know? Yeah, yeah, right,
So now it's like, okay, well I guess I'm ind
Miso now.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
Yeah, and I guess I fight on the side of
the Africans.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
Fuck it, yeah, you know, you know totally.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
And so all of these rich white dudes who have
black wives and children of color, they start fleeing for
France with their wife and kids, and it's this whole
other level of white fragility, not like white fragility is
like white people being fragile, but white fragility, like whiteness itself,
is fragile. Yes, yes, and uh, all of the suppression
(36:46):
of even free people starts coming to a head because
in seventeen eighty nine we got the French Revolution, which
came out of nowhere, much like these ads.
Speaker 3 (36:55):
You did it again, you did it again.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
So it gets me up on Thursday mornings the day
I record.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
Yes, amazing, here they are and we're back.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
So one of these days I'll probably do the French Revolution.
But I kind of don't care that much about the
French Revolution because it's like mostly rich people and it's like,
I don't know whatever.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
Yeah, kind of didn't Yeah, it kind of didn't go
deep enough. But yeah too. Yeah, yeah, but they're why
we called it right and left. So like there, that's true.
That's a thing.
Speaker 2 (37:35):
Yeah, and the French Revolution is a big deal and
it affected a lot of stuff. They also there's this
thing where people basically say, oh, the French Revolution kicked
off the Haitian Revolution because it exported the ideas of
liberty to the people who had never heard of it
before in Haiti, and that's obviously like paternalistic and wrong.
(37:55):
It's all right, but it did fundamentally disrupt the empire
that was in charge.
Speaker 3 (38:02):
Yeah, there's a reality of again, like connecting the now
when you when when you see a kink in the armor,
when the reality of like this person that they can
get touched like you, oh you could get touched, like
you're not invincible, and what and what that germ does
of like, oh this, we could win this. You know
(38:23):
that to me. So it's not that it kicked it off.
It was just like you said, in the paternalistic way,
but in the idea of saying, oh.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
Actually things can change around here.
Speaker 3 (38:32):
Yeah no, big hoby. Yeah, it's like, oh, you don't
have backup.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
Yeah wait a minute, yeah you.
Speaker 3 (38:38):
Don't have backup now. Okay, oh we're good now.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
It's like the first time if you've ever seen the
cops retreat from you, yes, you will never forget what
it is like to watch them get in their squad
cars and drive away.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
Yeah you know.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
It changes the understanding of power completely.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
It just it's it's it's mind blowing. When I realized, man,
these these big burly men are more scared of me. Yeah,
you scared of me? And I was like oh yeah,
yo hoh. Posture change is like yeah, yeah, actually you
know what, No, you may not see my ID.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
And that's even why they're dangerous, so they're afraid to you,
you know.
Speaker 3 (39:19):
Yeah, exactly, yeah, you know, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
So the French Revolution seventeen eighty nine, a group calling
itself the French National Assembly was set up. People stormed
the Bastille in Paris. We talked about this on our
prison Break episode a while ago. It was a pretty
good prison break. And then the King Louis the sixteenth
was like, all right, fine, you can be a real group.
Speaker 4 (39:39):
You've scared me enough.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
They wrote up a declaration of the rights of Man
and citizen. And there are all kinds of folks from
Sandemong living in France at the time, and they want
to be part of the revolution. And you have two
different factions. You have a bunch of white people who
are desperately trying to make sure that the revolution doesn't
expand to include black people people of color. They're like
(40:01):
that's their thing. They're like, we're part of this as
long as we make sure it doesn't disrupt white supremacy
in Haiti, yeah, or in sand Demong. But there's also
free black people and people of color and invest as
I can tell, they're like white family and friends who
are fighting that for the new constitution. Of France to include.
Some people are arguing for abolition, but that's not the
big thing. They're arguing that free black people and the
(40:23):
colonies and shit should have like the right to.
Speaker 4 (40:25):
Vote and stuff.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:27):
In March seventeen ninety, the Colonial Committee of the French
Revolution was like, the new constitution doesn't apply to the
colonies because we can't risk upsetting our rich white supremacist planters.
So they just like chicken out. They come around. The
revolution is still underway in France. Things are in turmoil.
A man named Vincent Ouje, he's a mixed race guy
(40:48):
from Sandomong. He had been he was a free man.
He had been in France and then he went home
to sand Humong and he was like, it's time to
stand up to the colonial authorities. We should bring the
French Revolution to the colonies. Not free the enslaved people,
but us people of color, slavers. We should get our rights.
So they threw an armed rally called the Oja Rebellion.
(41:10):
And these are not leftists, like, these are property owning
people of color who the majority of them are slavers. Yeah,
and the colonial authority is like, oh fuck no, because
they don't owe their allegiance to the rich. They don't
owe their allegiance to slavery, they owe their allegiance to
white supremacy.
Speaker 3 (41:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
And so the military breaks up this demonstration and arrests
two hundred and twenty six of them. Oja and another
guy were tortured and beheaded and their heads were put
on pikes, which is a specific symbol. This is what
happens to slave rebellions. Yeah, so this is saying you
are all the same to us.
Speaker 3 (41:51):
Yeah. Yeah, And twenty.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
Three people were executed. Fifteen of them were branded and
then given life imprisonment on a chain gang. Forty four
people were tried in absentia. Two of them were executed
in effigy like they made dummies of the people and
then like tortured and killed the dummies as like a
public spectacle. Weird, which is such a good way to
show we are terrified of you. Yes, yes, you have
(42:16):
so much power over us. And this protest it failed
in the short term, but on May fifteenth, seventeen ninety one,
a couple months after the leaders of the demonstration had
been killed, the French Revolution was like, all right, political
rights for free people of color in the colonies. If
you're born free to free parents and you own shit
(42:37):
and you're a man, you can vote, got it?
Speaker 3 (42:41):
Yeah? Perfect.
Speaker 2 (42:42):
There's only a couple hundred people in Sandumong who.
Speaker 3 (42:45):
Mactually like, I was like, that's like five people. Yeah, okay,
but yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:49):
And this was too much for the white supremacist slavers.
Speaker 4 (42:56):
They couldn't handle it.
Speaker 3 (42:58):
Now it's like right now that's ned and Yahoo's cabinet. Yeah,
they're like ceasefire never. Yeah. I'm like, you're out of bullets.
Speaker 2 (43:12):
You've killed them. They're dead.
Speaker 3 (43:14):
They're dead. There's no one left it. What do you
You leveled the city?
Speaker 2 (43:20):
Yeah? I know it's not enough.
Speaker 3 (43:24):
It's not enough. Or do you want and like and
you're about to sail land you don't own? Yeah, to America.
That's not enough. Yeah, fuck goddamn it.
Speaker 2 (43:40):
I mean everything's gonna be fine. And so, in response
to a couple hundred people of color suddenly being their
equals legally, they they start planning their own revolution. They're
gonna they're planning to break free from France to defend
their right to be white supremacists.
Speaker 3 (43:59):
This is their revolution call.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
But they're they're not the only people plotting a revolution.
This is not an ad transition. I almost wish it was, uh,
because suddenly a bunch of different groups of people who
did not see themselves as part of the same group
now have all their interests aligned. You have the unskilled
enslaved people, you have the skilled enslaved people. You have
the free black people, and the free people of color,
(44:25):
including the slavers among them, who are suddenly forced onto
the same side.
Speaker 1 (44:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:32):
So they had a revolution.
Speaker 3 (44:35):
Yeah. Man, the the stubbornness of your racism just working
against you. Yeah, I mean, is this not history rhyming?
Speaker 4 (44:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
This was one of the things, the biggest things I
got wrong in like twenty fifteen. I was I plotted
out this science fiction novel about like set in like
twenty forty, and in it, I was assuming that like
right wing nationalism was going to take over the US,
but it was going to do it by being like
woke right wing nationalism. Okay, it was going to be
(45:14):
like trans inclusive, all women army units like the fascists
and stuff, you know. Yeah, and like they were gonna
be like as long as you're American, you're American. We
don't care what color you are. If you're gay or whatever,
as long as you're willing to enforce a terrible empire
that conquers the entire world. Yeah, yeah, because I thought
that was the direction things were going, and then nope,
(45:36):
they went back to their old strongest card, just raw racism.
Speaker 3 (45:40):
Just yeah, like you are you you keep lowering your
own like pool of resources. Yeah, you you just keep
telling the most skilled and most qualified people in our
country that they need not even apply. Yeah, like, oh, okay, well,
I guess I'm a diversity higher. I only have four
(46:01):
more degrees than this food. Yeah, I don't know. I
guess I'm a diversity higher. So mean, y'all go ahead, Dan,
Do you know it's.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
Like just I get lost thinking about that ship becau
I'm thinking aboutw It's just like some of the best
programmers in the world are trans women, because there's so
many obviously not all I'm not a programmer, right, yeah,
and awful disproportionate number of the best programmers in this
world are trans women. And to be like, oh no,
(46:29):
they're all diversity higres, they gotta go, and you're like.
Speaker 3 (46:31):
You just so you wait, wait, wait, let me get
this straight. Like even if yeah, I'm just like even
if I'm racist. Yeah, I'm like, wait, hold hold on now,
like she's really good, Like she's really good at this.
Speaker 2 (46:44):
Yeah, all I got does color a girl and she's
down to the program.
Speaker 3 (46:49):
Like yeah it's fine. Yeah, yeah, she doesn't even care
what we're making. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (46:56):
And so just the because again, there's like this whole
thing where in eighteen oh four when Haiti starts to
spoiler alert, there's gonna be a thing that's called the
mass courgenocide depends on who's writing it, where yeah, a
couple thousand white people are killed, and like it's presented
as like all the white people are killed. And first
of all, this because there weren't that many white people
left on the island at that point, but also they
(47:16):
weren't all killed, and we're gonna talk about that. But
like if you just say that totally out of nowhere,
you're like, oh, this sounds kind of bad, right, And
you're like, who made it a race war?
Speaker 3 (47:28):
Yes? Yeah, like yeah, you did you ask what is yeah? Yeah,
yeah absurd.
Speaker 2 (47:36):
But what I'm asking for is your plugs. Because that's
the end of part three, because we're gonna talk about
the revolution itself in part four.
Speaker 3 (47:44):
Finally, man, we're gonna talk about the pew pews. Uh yeah, dude,
the politics pod. I've been trying to like get better
at ways to be in contact with people that are
interested in what I do. So yeah, like so prop
hip hop dot Com that has like you could sign
up for, like the newsletter, you could sign up for
(48:05):
the for the text messaging service. So the text message
and stuff is like, if I'm in town, I'll text you,
Oh that's cool, I'm doing a show.
Speaker 2 (48:14):
Yeah, and just like works by zip code or something
like that.
Speaker 4 (48:17):
Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 3 (48:18):
It just I'll be like, hey, where do you live? Yeah? Uh, Toadsuck, Arkansas?
All right, Hey, I'm gonna be doing a show somewhere
close to there.
Speaker 4 (48:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (48:28):
People in Arkansas are gonna drive a little further for
shows than people on the mid Atlantic.
Speaker 3 (48:32):
You know.
Speaker 1 (48:33):
Yeah, I have.
Speaker 3 (48:34):
I have performed in Toadsuck, Arkansas.
Speaker 2 (48:36):
Oh okay cool.
Speaker 3 (48:38):
That's why I always pull that stadia out because I'm like,
I know that one anyway. But yeah, prophitpop dot Com.
There's the hood politics thing, there's a newsletter, there's a
music We're gonna start rolling out a ton of music
this year. I'm super excited about So yeah, man prop
hip hop dot Com.
Speaker 2 (48:53):
Hell yeah, if you want to follow me. My next
book comes out this summer and it's called The Immortal
Holds Every Voice and it is a third book in
the Daniel Kaine series. And if you look it up
on Kickstarter you can get information about that. It's going
to kickstart in March. And you're like, what if I've
never heard it before, Well, you're in luck because I
read Robert Evans the first of these books on cools
(49:13):
on Media book clubs. So if you look up The
Lamb Will Slaughter the Lion, you will find me reading
it to Robert. And also one of the rewards for
the Kickstarter is going to be audiobooks of me reading
all three books, so if people have never heard it before,
you can hear all of it.
Speaker 3 (49:28):
So dope. I wish I would have done more on
the Dinah Wars.
Speaker 2 (49:32):
Oh, Dinah Wars is still going on. You still have
a chance to do Dinahars.
Speaker 3 (49:35):
I saw have a chance. Like I've been trying to
come up with an angle. You guys are so good
at this. I'm like, what's the angle? What's the angle? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (49:42):
People want every Sunday, I think on this feed and
on the it could happen here feed. I've been doing
Dinah Wars twenty fifty five how to Survive, and it's
been fun and eventually Propa is going to do part
of an episode.
Speaker 3 (49:56):
I'm going to figure it out, man, I'm going to
figure it out. Yeah, some sort of, I would, because
I was trying to come down a music angle of
like something where it's just like for like two decades
artists just gave up, like they were just like forget it, dude.
Speaker 2 (50:09):
Like we tried there's no money in it more at all,
Like yeah, there's.
Speaker 3 (50:12):
Like there's no money, like yeah, all your favorite artists
are AI, you know. And we tried to tell y'all
like all the way back to like the gunp the dude.
You know what I'm saying, Like we've been trying to
forget it. That's what y'all want. But like maybe there's
one guy that's like, come on, guys, let's try, you know.
So that's kind of what I was kind of coming with.
Speaker 4 (50:31):
Nah it's good, But.
Speaker 2 (50:32):
Anyway, Okay, dear listener, you should bug Prop to write
a song as if Prop has written it in the
year twenty fifty five.
Speaker 3 (50:41):
Okay, that you just get You just gave me the idea. Now,
now that's what I'm doing.
Speaker 2 (50:45):
Cool all right, all right, Well, I'll see everyone on
Wednesday when we tell you more about the Haitian Revolution.
Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of
cool Zone Media.
Speaker 1 (51:00):
For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website
Foolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Host
Margaret Killjoy
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