Part Two: The Korean People's Association of Manchuria: When Two Million People Lived In a Horizontal Society

Margaret continues talking with Mia Wong about the deep history of Korean anarchism and how it led to one of the great experiments with antiauthoritarian social structure of the 20th century.

Part 2/4

Sources:

Shin Chae-ho, "Declaration of the Korean Revolution;"

Ha Ki-rak, "A History of the Korean Anarchist Movement;"

Dongyoun Hwang, Anarchism in Korea;

Peter Gelderloos, Anarchy Works;

dogej63, "Summary of the Sinmin Prefecture."

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Cool Zone Media.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
Hello, and welcome to cool People that did cool stuff.
You're weekly reminder that sometimes Margaret and Mia really like
talking about complicated things. I'm your host, Margaret Kiljoy And
as implied in the tagline of the show, which that tagline,
We've been using it the whole time and it never
made any sense until now. But the guest today, despite

(00:27):
being in the tagline every single week, is Mia Wong.

Speaker 1 (00:30):
Hi.

Speaker 3 (00:31):
Hello, glatic can finally covet and make the tagline work.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
I know it's been like we've every now and then
you're here and everything makes sense. It doesn't make sense
when you're not here, Mia, But who's also here, and
it also wouldn't make sense without is Sophie Hi. Sophie Hi.

Speaker 1 (00:49):
I think it could still make sense without me here.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
And not as much I mean, no offense to the
sometimes other producers from the show or in Sophie's spot,
and those episodes are also good. Yes, the only person
who can't be replaced is me. Probably true, I'd be pretty.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
Rentraw has entered the chat, so sorry mom. Yeah, and
then just like clabbers you with love.

Speaker 2 (01:14):
Oh my god, there's this fucking random Instagram video I
saw of like a like lion that greets its handler
by like jumping and tackling and bringing it to Oh
my god, I'm like, it's so amazing. I want Rentroll
to do that to me. So cool, but also so scary.
I know, I don't want a lion to do it
to me. Could Yeah anyway. Our audio engineers Rory Hi,

(01:40):
Rory Hi, Rory Hi, Rory, and our theme musical was
written for Spyan Woman. And this is part two out
of four talking about the history of Korean anarchism as
eventually builds up to the Korean People's Association of Manchuria
and where we last left off, the people of Korea
had tried for big old peasant revolt that seemed really

(02:02):
cool and rebolt, by the way, is what happens when
you start saying rebellion and then switch it to a revolt.
Because you look at your script about halfway through.

Speaker 1 (02:09):
It's about to be like, did we come up with
a new word because I'd like it?

Speaker 2 (02:12):
Yeah. No, Yeah, it's a halfway between a revolt and
a rebellion. What's the difference. I don't know. They're probably synonyms.

Speaker 1 (02:17):
I like it.

Speaker 3 (02:18):
Yeah, And they all got slaughtered because it's.

Speaker 2 (02:22):
Bad when people with fucking in the same way that
you shouldn't bring a knife to a gunfight, you shouldn't
bring a regular gun to a machine gun fight.

Speaker 3 (02:32):
Terrible idea.

Speaker 2 (02:33):
Unfortunately, Uh, maybe there's nowhere to go but up for them.
Just kidding. Japanese imperialism. In the immediate aftermath of this
war eighteen ninety five, you've got the short lived Korean Empire,
which was ostensibly independent for a while, it had close
ties with Russia. This is the aforementioned promise Russian imperialism section,

(02:55):
who didn't want the Japanese to take over, so that's
why they were doing their thing. Korea was like, we
better modernize. We're in trouble, especially our military. We should
modernize our military. Doesn't it seem like we should. Yeah,
I think it seems like we should. But they're pretty
geographically fucked because they are just right in the middle

(03:16):
of the three huge imperial powers China, Japan, and Russia.
They're all right there. Just kidding. Only the United States
is capable period that to everyone that Japan colonized anyway.
Then Russia and Japan got into a pissing match and

(03:36):
Japan beat the shit out of Russia. And this changes
the course of history, and like leads in some ways.
The downfall of this are very least leads to the
revolution in nineteen oh five that doesn't work, but which
leads to the nineteen seventeen revolution it does work. Whatever.
As a result, Japan takes Korea as a protectorate state
in nineteen oh five. By nineteen oh seven, Japan just

(03:57):
dissolves Korea's military or starts too. And then it was
formally annexed as a colony in nineteen ten. And the
first resistance to this colonization were what get called the
righteous Armies, which is a good name, yeah, good pr Yeah,
Like which side is the right side? I don't know,
Probably the righteous ones, yeah yeah. On the other hand,

(04:21):
you can justify a lot when you call yourself a
righteous army.

Speaker 3 (04:24):
That's true.

Speaker 2 (04:25):
But I mean I haven't done a ton of research
on the righteous armies. Like overall, they're actually they're doing
pretty good. Well morally, militarily they're not doing good.

Speaker 3 (04:37):
Yeah, I mean they are someone who is fighting Japan
before nineteen forty one. Yeah, by definition, they're going to
be doing pretty badly.

Speaker 2 (04:48):
Yeah. Before Like my granddad, a hobo from Iowa gets
into a funning offin you know, not that my granddad
saved the day, but I just mean before the US
was like we have a really big with a lot
of fucking torpedoes.

Speaker 3 (05:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (05:04):
Anyway, the Righteous Armies don't succeed. They mostly ran around.
They were like their peak was nineteen oh five to
nineteen twelve. But the idea is going to stick around
as long as colonization is. And the Japanese colonial government
just sucked. It was oppressive as hell, especially right out
of the gate. Japan rapidly modernized Korea. Hey, you finally
get modernization, you know everything, but the military weird, weird

(05:28):
how that happened?

Speaker 1 (05:29):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (05:30):
And one side effect of Japan modernizing Korea is that
one hundred years later there are people who are apologists
for the fucking colonization of Korea because they're like, well,
at least they got modernized.

Speaker 3 (05:42):
There are dudes who run South Korea who are apologists
for college Yeah, pro japad.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
That makes sense. That does not surprise me. I was like,
I bet it's all white people, and I was like, no,
I bet it's not. You know, it was really bad.
It was a really oppressive colonial region. Obviously, colonial regimes
are bad. Everything I've read puts this in the like
it's not Belgian Congo. Yeah, but it's not nice. It's

(06:09):
in the like medium to extra bad. You know. That's
my that's my take. I didn't deep dive it. I
could be wrong.

Speaker 3 (06:16):
Well, I think the like I think the thing with
Jeopanese superialism is that there's a marked shift where it
gets worse, and this is before the shift where it
gets worse.

Speaker 2 (06:27):
Well, okay, so what's interesting is one of the things
that I was reading was it was saying that this
nineteen ten to nineteen nineteen is like the period of
the saber, and then they get a little bit more
subtle but also more economically destructive. But then I suspect
that it then also continues to get militarily worse also
on top of.

Speaker 3 (06:43):
That, yeah, because it accelerates. Once you get like to
about nineteen thirty seven nineteen thirty eight, everything gets dramatically worse.
For like, you know, if this is the period of
the saber, like once you get to about thirty six
thirty seven, like that's that's when they are building the
concentration camps and yep. Okay, Well I guess I guess

(07:03):
they're doing it a bit in the slightly earlier thirties,
depending on where you are in China.

Speaker 2 (07:08):
But yeah, it re escalates, No, that makes sense. I
did most of my reading, like I read like in
detail up to about like nineteen thirty four or so,
you know, and then that like, yeah, I read the
like summary type stuff of the after.

Speaker 1 (07:24):
Right.

Speaker 2 (07:25):
Overall, the goal was to extract as much value out
of the place as possible, as fast as possible, especially Japan.
Right now they've had like these rice riots I think
we're going to talk about later pretty recently. Well, actually
they happened in nineteen eighteen. But you know, people are
hungry in Japan, and Japan is less and less an
agricultural state, but Korea is, and so they're like, let's

(07:45):
get as much out of there as we can. A
lot of people from Japan moved to Korea, especially more
later after nineteen nineteen or so. I've seen it referred
to as like a lot of the like fail sons
of Japan and then a lot of the like people
trying to come up. Yeah, from Japan are the two
groups of people who move there. Maybe because of my bias.

(08:07):
The most immediate comparison I can make is the English
colonization of Ireland in how they like they're like, oh
here right next door are a bunch of non modern
backwards people. This is August Air quotes that we can
extract value out of, even though we're gonna have to
do a lot of really intense work to build racial
categorization in order to oppress them.

Speaker 3 (08:27):
Yeap, yep.

Speaker 2 (08:28):
I only a little bit understand the like racialization of Koreans,
you know, as relates to Japan, but it it seems
like they had to do a lot of work specifically
to be like, let's come up with how they're different,
you know.

Speaker 3 (08:41):
Yeah, I mean there's like there's a whole I know
less about this in Korea, more about it in China.
But it's like it gets to a point where they
have these like I mean, they're doing just straight up
sort of European style race science. They have like they
have like guys with like they're not calipers. They have
their own system of like racial measure bit things of
like how you measure something's face to determine their characteristics,

(09:02):
and they're trying to like base their like forced labor
system off of that of like who they think is
gonna be the most effective worker by like face shape stuff,
and it's it's real bad. They are unbelievably racist.

Speaker 2 (09:14):
God, which is like we're gonna talk later about the
nineteen twenty three earthquake in Japan where oh yeah, Japan's
gonna run around and kill a lot of Korean immigrants.
Six thousand people are gonna get slaughtered. Yeah, And the
way that they did it is because they couldn't tell
Korean people apart necessarily, so they made them pronounce I
don't remember what word, and then if you pronounce it wrong,
they'd kill you. And it's also like, yeah, I mean,

(09:36):
obviously it's wrong to go around and kill people because
of racial characteristics or like national origin, but like it
caught up a lot of people from like the boonies
of Japan, you know, because they had like different accents.

Speaker 3 (09:48):
Like this is this is a country who's like the
shinzo Abe, their longtime prime minister, like couldn't write in
one of their writing systems, So like, you know, there's
there's a lot going on there in terms of like
the difficulty of language and sort of class.

Speaker 2 (10:04):
Dynamics, okay, And so Korea is being oppressed and there's
this gorilla resistance going on, especially Korean folks who fled
into Manchuria, which is the chunk of China immediately north
of the Peninsula. As we talked about before, folks up
there organizing gorilla bands and raiding Japanese forces regularly in Korea.
But this is still not the like major resistance. The

(10:26):
first like major resistance that people talk about is the
March First Movement. And I bet you can figure out
what part of the year the March First Movement happens
and July close. It's March. I mean it actually it
actually is also I think still happening in July. Like
it doesn't all like happen on one day.

Speaker 1 (10:46):
Here's the thing, though, history is so dumb that in
July would not be that far vegetive an answer.

Speaker 2 (10:51):
Oh yeah, I mean you got the like fucking February
Revolution in Russia.

Speaker 3 (10:54):
Yeah, everything, all the dates in Russia are like this, yes,
like no, it's all different buds.

Speaker 2 (10:59):
Yeah, don't worries orthodox here. So it's fine. Most of
the history I've read for this episode starts basically in
the aftermath of the March First Movement. World War One,
of course, matters everywhere. When it ended, President Woodrow Wilson
was like, here are the fourteen points for peace, and
some of those points were like Poland gets to be

(11:20):
independent of colonial rule, and the Korean people were like, cool,
what about us? Can we be independent of colonial rule?
And obviously the Western powers were like no, no, not you.
Where did you come from? I think after the war
they like send Korean representatives to the League of Nations
and they're like, nah, you can't come in. We don't care,
we're racist.

Speaker 3 (11:40):
Like yeah, wood Wilson's like, I belong to the KKK.
Come on, you thought you guys thought you were going
to get independence, Like go on, what are you doing here?

Speaker 2 (11:50):
Yeah. But despite not being accepted by the Western powers,
the people of Korea are like, nah, let's fucking go.
Let's do it. Let's have a mass, peaceful movement. This
is called the March First Movement because it kicked off
on March first, nineteen nineteen, and this is a huge
mass movement. It is about two million people. There's not
even twenty million people in the whole of the country

(12:12):
at that point. And Japan reacted strongly. This is the
period of the saber death and arrest numbers very real,
wildly because a lot of those numbers come from the
Japanese government, and then other numbers come from like Korean nationalism.
And no one hasn't any interest in telling the truth, right,

(12:33):
I mean many of the people do. But whatever, we're
going to go with seven thousand people killed and likely
about forty thousand people arrested. Jeez. Despite being crushed really badly,
the March First movement did make some gains. The imperial
form switched from will kill the shit out of you
if you do anything we don't like to. We'll try
to ask nicely first, and then we'll kill the shit
out of you. That's my paraphrasing of the stuff I've

(12:55):
read about the transition to like different methods of rule.
And this is what opened Korea up for settler colonialism,
and Japanese folks started moving there. They got tons of
financial incentives paid for by the Japanese government, so it
becomes a settler project as well as a colonial extractive project.
It's in the wake of this movement that Korean anarchism

(13:16):
really got its start, especially under the name anarchism and
when it got started, it immediately went hard. Interestingly, most
of its most impactful work, though, didn't happen in Korea.
Korean anarchists during this period had the most dramatic and
immediate impact in Japan and China, because in the wake
of the March First Movement, a ton of radicals had

(13:37):
to go into exile, mostly into China. I think the
most of them just went into Manchuria because it's right there, right, yeah, yeah,
but a lot of folks went much further to Shanghai
and Beijing and a city called Guangcho, which is more
in southern China.

Speaker 3 (13:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:54):
Meanwhile, students who could afford to went to Japan because
there were I was like, oh, they must have just
been like, oh, that's like the nice place to go
to college is the only place to go to college
if you're a Korean student. There are literally zero colleges
in Korea under early japan Uese rule until nineteen twenty four.
Oh god, yeah, oh my god. And so even when

(14:16):
you hear about like all of the like like all
these anarchists are gonna be set up all these schools
and stuff, right, they're coming out of a time when
there was no schools in their country, yeah, or no
colleges in their country. The first college in Korea in
nineteen twenty four is a Japanese Imperial University.

Speaker 3 (14:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:32):
So most of the students who moved to Japan, they
had to work constantly their work study students. And so
when I say the people who are like rich enough
to go there, these are poor people, but they're like
able to get to Japan, and they're absolutely the underclass
when they get to Japan, and they're doing really shit
jobs in order to get by. And in Tokyo, where
most these students went, they fell into academic Japanese leftist circles,

(14:54):
especially among anarchists, which appeared to be, at least by
the reading that I did, the primary leftist thing going
on there at that time.

Speaker 3 (15:01):
Yeah, it's a I kind of want to take a
second talk about what's going on more broadly. And this
like literally in like within a few months of the
March first movement, because like two months later there's the
May fourth movement in China, which is a very very
similar movement. And if you look at the historiography of
you know, like Chinese anarchism, even Chinese communism, this is

(15:22):
sort of the place where a lot of that starts.
Where because there's this giant student uprising, that's the point
where sort of like Western leftist ideologies like really starting
to take hold. And this is like this whole period
is this real like from here until like really kind
of mentioned twenty seven, is this whole period of like
almost continuous uprising like in China, I mean particularly intensifies

(15:45):
in China like mention twenty four and twenty five, but
like this is this is a period where like the
Chinese left is also emerging really rapidly. But it's also
fascinating because none of the stuff I've ever read about
the May the Fourth Movement ever talks about the fact
that the first one was in Korean. That's what I
was like two months early.

Speaker 2 (16:00):
Yeah, I was trying to figure that out because I
was like, this seems related, you know, it has to
be like a bunch of people from it, like clearly
we're in China when yeah, they all went there.

Speaker 3 (16:10):
I feel like it's just one of these things where
like because it's yeah, it's like it's all the nationalists
his geographies. Yeah, like because it's the main of the
Fourth Movement is really really important to both the Chinese
Nationalist Party and to the Communists, but when they're writing
their history, they don't really want to. I guess you're
biden of one of the fact that they were like
two months late. Yeah, because Koreans went first. Well, that's

(16:31):
even kind of what to talk about about.

Speaker 2 (16:32):
Like Korea seems to be like I mean, it's this
like place, this is constantly colonized by everyone, like kick
back and forth, but it has all of these things
where like are very very impactful on regional politics.

Speaker 3 (16:44):
Yeah, it's almost hadisque where stuff moves there first.

Speaker 2 (16:48):
Totally Okay, And we're gonna talk a little bit more.
And this is good because you're gonna fill in a
lot of gaps for me when we gets it's the
Chinese part of this, because I'm like, because everything talks
about everything siloed off. You read about like ye ye
yeah oh, and then the Korea anarchists in China did
the following and you're like, there's a war on in China,
like how does that relate to it? And it's like, well,
we're just talking about the Koreans, and I'm like, there's

(17:09):
a war where they went that is clearly going to
influence things. And I think what it is is that
a lot of it's like writing for people who like
know that, right, Yeah, But it's like if I read
something that happens in the eighteen sixties in the US,
it's like, should we talk about the fact that there's
a civil war happening?

Speaker 3 (17:24):
You know?

Speaker 2 (17:25):
Like anyway, So in Japan, you know, there's the students,
they go to Tokyo, and then there's a ton of
Korean workers moving elsewhere in Japan, especially to Osaka, and
they were doing migrant labor under terrible working conditions because
their economy had just been destroyed. In Korea, there's nothing
else that they could do. And these folks ended up
being part, a major part of the anarchist led labor

(17:47):
movements that were happening in the industrial districts. And so
you have five distinct Korean anarchist movements all happening at
the same time. One is in Korean and it is
underground as fuck and it is constantly repressed. It is
the worst place to be an anarchist. Out of these, yeah,
one is in Manchuria, which is waging a gorilla war.

(18:10):
One is in the rest of China and they're heavily
involved in Chinese politics and really fascinating and complicated ways,
like hanging out with the communists less and the nationalists
more and all this weird shit. But then be clear,
the communist and nationalists were also hanging out together, so
you can't just use this tankies.

Speaker 3 (18:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (18:26):
And then also in Tokyo whole different movement that's like
working class academic anarchist movement that is like involved in
all of this, like assassination plots and all of this,
like trying to build up things back in Korea, and
is like maybe the most like deeply watching a lot
of them. They're all deeply anti colonial. And then in

(18:47):
Osaka you have the Labor movement. Five different fucking Korean
anarchist movements. It's impressive. That's a lot for one country.

Speaker 3 (18:54):
Yeah, yeah, and.

Speaker 2 (18:56):
There's so much of it. And we're going to start
with what happened in China. But first, even before we
talk about China, we'll talk about if I say products
and services, this is gonna yep, here's ads, and we're back.

(19:19):
I hope everyone enjoys those products and services. To talk
about Korean anarchism in China, I'm going to start with
a man and a manifesto. See what I did. There's
man's in the word manifesto. And I've read like five
different versions of this fucking guy's story. Like no, because

(19:40):
he's super important outside of his anarchism, both to the
Korean independence movement and also to like Korean literature and
all this other stuff. Right, so his anarchism, of course
is like only sometimes included. This man's name is shin Chweho,
ironic to how many versions of his history I've seen.
He was a historian and a journalist. He started out

(20:02):
working with a group called the New People's Association, which
is one of these first It wasn't one of the
Righteous Armies, but they were like kind of the people
doing a lot of the intellectual work of like trying
to justify the Righteous Armies. Start in nineteen oh six,
and it's basically advocating for creating a republican Korea. And
they are supporting the various righteous armies. And they're also
opening schools, and I think this is where that style

(20:25):
comes from, but I'm not one hundred percent certain. They
are opening schools for both military training and for regular education.
They're separate schools, so it's not like you go to
it's like you get both. Yeah, it's cool, but they're separate.
Also important. Later around nineteen ten, they have to fuck
off to Manchuria and eventually they're dissolved, and our guy

(20:46):
Shin just starts wandering. He writes for newspapers in Russia
and then China. He kind of settles in China. It
seems like after the March First movement, suddenly all of
these exiles pour into China and the Korean Provisional Government
formed in Shanghai in nineteen nineteen, and soon Chin is
part of it. And this is I think the funniest
thing I've read in an anarchist history. You know how

(21:09):
like sometimes we cover anarchists who then later joined the government.

Speaker 3 (21:13):
Oh no, is he one of the wait know what
government isn't even it's the inverse.

Speaker 2 (21:19):
What you know, where Korean anarchism comes from. It comes
from the Korean Provisional Government, about half of them deciding
they're anarchists and split it off.

Speaker 3 (21:32):
Is that rule? It's they've They've done an even funnier
version of the Portita liber Ati Mexico thing, where the
Liberal Party became anarchists. But this is even funnier because
of their provisional government.

Speaker 2 (21:45):
Yeah, that rules. A whole crew of the Korean provisional
government started off republicans and wound up anarchists, Shin included.
And the way that I've heard this described is they
basically looked at all the political party bullshit that was happening,
all of the fighting between political factions, and were like, well,
this ain't it now. Granted, obviously there's a lot of

(22:07):
infighting and anarchism, but it's not political parties fighting for
domination over each other, right, Yeah. And then they looked
at what the Bolsheviks were doing, crushing their fellow leftists,
and we're like, well, that's not it either. Also, this
is during the peak of Chinese anarchism, like roughly, so
this is the leftism that they're you know, sort of

(22:29):
that or Bolshevism is like the things that they can see.
And the inference I get from these texts is that
also they looked back at traditional Korean ideals, whether from
the Silhak movement or the dong Hak movement, and they
were like, yeah, anarchism seems way closer to that stuff,
you know, Yeah, which is a thing that we've also
seen elsewhere across the world, where, for example, the you know,

(22:49):
the democratic and federalists in Roshava come out of a
communist leader who was like, wait, I just read a
bunch of anarchist texts, and now that I'm thinking about
traditional Kurdish life, that makes more sense.

Speaker 3 (23:02):
Yeah, you know.

Speaker 2 (23:04):
Peter Czarro wrote that in the mid nineteen tens to
about nineteen fifteen was the heyday of Chinese anarchism, and
I think this means like the heyday of it coming up,
but I'm not one hundred percent certain where you would
see quote a good deal of organizational activism, especially in narcosyndicalism,
as well as ideological refinement. And in all of this,
in both Japan and China, the main i explicitly anarchist

(23:25):
ideological influence seems to be friend of the pod. Peter
Kerpotkin specifically around the idea of societies built on mutual aid.
This is like, you know, newspapers that weren't even anarchists,
like covering his funeral will kind of like lead a
lot of people like Shin does that Actually he's like
covers the funeral or whatever, you know. And here's where

(23:46):
we run into one of the splits I've seen between
the two main Korean anarchist historical texts I read, hockey
Rack is focusing on the nationalist aspects of Korean anarchism
and a lot of how it ties into these older
Korean religious movements. Dongwong Hoong, meanwhile, does a really good
job of showing just how explicitly transnational this movement is.
So basically it's like the way that people look at

(24:08):
all of this is like either Koreans were building a
Korean thing even if they weren't at home. And I'm
not trying to say this is like Hockey Wreck is
like specifically supernationalists, but rather Dong Wo Huong is saying
their goal is a cosmopolitan world. And he wrote an
entire book that is basically just showing evidence of the
fact that Korean anarchists, while they were fighting for nationalism,

(24:30):
they were fighting for the liberation of their country, were
fighting very explicitly for a cosmopolitan world, not Korea for Koreans,
but instead to end imperialism, destroy borders, and in order
to do that you start by liberating colonized people like
us in Korea. I have a strong bias towards the
latter position if that didn't come across. Yeah, yeah, but

(24:51):
the evidence is pretty strong. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (24:54):
Well, and I think also, like I don't know how,
I mean, I guess it is possible to develop extremely
national politics by a bunch of people who were spread
out between a bunch of different countries. But it seems
it seems kind of difficult to have a really really
nationalist movement when like half of your people are in
one of like five anarchist circles in Japan, or are

(25:17):
like in Shanghai or Maturia or like in all of
these places that are very very different and also have
their own sort of like anarchist traditions and stuff like that.
It seems hard to just have that turned into a
peer like I mean, admittedly, like I'm saying this, and
this is kind of how nationalism came to China to
the extent that it was like imported back from like

(25:38):
a bunch of intellectuals who've been in Paris for a
bunch of time. But yeah, you know, it's it's kind
of hard for an anarchist but it's really function like that.

Speaker 2 (25:48):
Yeah, and like and it causes I mean, it is
an interesting tension, right that they are all dealing with
and they're all covering all the different anarchist papers and
things are all covering, like there's a paper that's covering
how Chinese women workers are treated at a British owned
factory in Shanghai, and how the liberation of all oppressed
people is the same. Another person writing at the time,

(26:10):
Simyong Chio said Korean anarchists, since they were slaves who
lost their country, had to rely with affection on nationalism
and patriotism, and thus had difficulties in practice discerning which
was their main idea and which was their secondary idea.
The reason for the difficulties was due to that their
enemy was only the one Japanese imperialism. My life is

(26:34):
one that has drifted along with this kind of contradiction inside,
and so they're just like, yeah, like I'm a nationalist
and an anarchist, but not a national anarchist, you know. Yeah,
it's one of those words that you have lots of meanings. Yeah,
And you've got all these exiles and they've started a
government and then half, I don't know what percent a

(26:54):
chunk of the government splits away to become anarchists. Everyone's
starting newspapers, some of them are all Koreans, some of
them are mixed Korean and Japanese. The journalist and historian
I mentioned Shin Chui how he was a prominent author
of this era. He ran a newspaper called New Greater Korea,
as well as another one focused on forming alliances with
China called heavenlye Drum. And I think it was for

(27:16):
Heavenly Drum that he covered the death of Krapakin. And
I love God, I love the names in this. You know,
Yeither's so good. And he became an anarchist, and he
did a few things of note immediately. There's a part
that I know more about, which is that he wrote
a manifesto, and a part that I wish I knew
more about. He became a gorilla.

Speaker 3 (27:34):
Hell yeah, or at.

Speaker 2 (27:36):
Least was probably counterfeiting money and bringing it to the gorillas.
But I'm not rules. Yeah, but he wrote a manifesto,
and it's what comes down to us. One hundred and
one years later, he wrote in nineteen twenty three, and
this becomes I'll talk about how important it becomes, but
it is like not just a like random Reddit post,
you know, it's a very influential document. A manifesto called

(27:57):
the Declaration of a Korean Revolution in nineteen twenty and
according to some accounts, although they're the less convincing accounts,
writing it will be the death of him. That manifesto
opens quote, to sustain the Korean people's survival, we need
to wipe out Robert Japan. The expulsion of Robert Japan
can only be accomplished by a revolution. But where do

(28:20):
we begin to engage in a revolution? After the revolutions
of the old days, people used to become the slaves
of the state, and above them there used to be
lords and masters, a privileged group dominating them. Consequently, the
so called revolution was nothing but an altered name for
the privileged group. In other words, a revolution used to
just replace one privileged group with another. Accordingly, a slogan

(28:42):
such as behead the king console the people became the
sole goal of the revolution. However, today's revolution is one
that the masses make for themselves, and for that reason
we call it a revolution of the masses and a
direct revolution. I'm going to keep reading from me because
I like it and it is very impactful to everything

(29:03):
we're talking about. From later in it, quote, the road
to revolution shall we opened through destruction. However, we destroy
in order not just to destroy, but to construct. If
we do not know how to construct, that means we
do not know how to destroy. And if we do
not know how to destroy, that means we do not
know how to construct. Construction is distinguishable from destruction only

(29:26):
in its form, but in spirit, destruction means construction. And
then they list the five things that they want to destroy,
the rule of a foreign race, a privileged class, the
system of economic exploitation, social inequality, and servile cultural thoughts,
and it ends quote the masses are the supreme headquarters

(29:49):
of our revolution. Violence is our only weapon for our revolution.
We go to the masses and go hand in hand
with the masses with ceaseless violence, assassination, destruct and rebellion.
We will overthrow the rule of Robert Japan, transform all
the absurd systems in our life, and construct an ideal
Korea in which one human being will not be able

(30:11):
to oppress other human beings and one society will not
be able to exploit other societies.

Speaker 3 (30:17):
Yeah, this rules, This is great, This is yeah. I
think that the way that he talks about construction and
destruction is really interesting because you know, there's the sort
of echo of the Bakunin like our creative destruction stuff,
but it's a more thought out.

Speaker 2 (30:33):
Version of it. Yeah, totally, because it's not just like, hey,
destroying is cool too, it's like, well, yeah, actually have
to destroy. But if you don't know how to create things,
you don't know how to destroy things. I really like
that part of it.

Speaker 3 (30:45):
Yeah, it's true also on like a tactical level too,
where you know, I mean like, there's obviously the strategic level,
but on a practical level, it's you know, the best
way to destroy something is by knowing how it works,
and you know obviously like but by being the person
who bakes it work in the first place. So that
lets you understand the most effective way to de shore

(31:06):
it and the most effective way to recreate something better
out of it.

Speaker 2 (31:10):
I like that because it ties that what you just
said ties into both the like famous Druty quote that
might not be a druity quote. There's a general during
the Spanish Civil War who said, we are not in
the least bit afraid of ruins. We are the workers
built these palaces here in Spain, and we can build
them again. Basically, you know, it ties into that and
the like sun Zoo art of war, like you know,

(31:31):
if you know your enemy and know yourself, you don't
have to fear in a thousand battles or whatever. Cool.
I like what you're saying about it. But what I
also is destructive to the flow of this conversation is advertising.
But what at the same time constructs our ability to

(31:52):
have this conversation within the framework of a capitalist society
are these advertisers. So they too know how to build,
destroy and create. And that's why we let them advertise.
We actually make them prove that they can both destroy
and create. We do not that's true.

Speaker 3 (32:10):
We do not.

Speaker 2 (32:11):
Thing that I said wasn't true.

Speaker 1 (32:12):
We have no idea who they are.

Speaker 2 (32:14):
Yeah, here's some stuff we think and we're back. So
the author of this is Shin He. I've read some
versions of his history where he dies in jail, like

(32:35):
more or less the next year for writing this. I
think those are not true. More of the versions say
that he still dies in jail. It's not good for him.
Other versions where he's arrested by Japanese police in either
nineteen twenty eight or nineteen twenty nine, and he's not
arrested for writing this. He's arrested for running counterfeit money
across a border. I tend to believe those versions, and

(32:57):
so in those versions he died in solitary confinement nineteenth six.
He's received numerous awards and recognitions from the South Korean
government in the century that followed well. At the same time,
he's sometimes credited for being the founder of the jew
Cha philosophy of self reliance that guides North Korea. I
don't think he would have anything nice to say about
North Korea or South Korea if he was alive. Yeah, yeah,

(33:22):
what a like that to me? Like that almost sums
up all of this, right, is like he's a national
hero to these completely. There's like a triangle of ideologies here, right,
and he's at one corner at North Korea is at
a different corner, and South Korea is at a different corner.
You know.

Speaker 3 (33:38):
Yeah, it's weird because it reminds me of the way
that like both the okay, how do you actually put this,
both the Chinese Communist Party and the Nationalists like both
claimed Son yet Sen as like their great hero because
he was the guy who was running the Nationalist party
before the Nationalist and Community to split okay, but Sonny
at Sen at least like ideologically, I mean, she's a

(34:03):
mess ideologically one of the weirdest guys who has ever
had a major role in history, like ideologically, but at
least you can sort of understand how his ideology could
lead to either of these other two groups. Ideology, where's
this guy, It's like, this is an anarchist, Like all
of you people have just sort of like, you know,
you were stripping these Although I admittedly I have actually

(34:24):
heard the sort of like anarchist Juja thing before. It
was interesting. Yeah, well it's like and I mean, this
is this is part of what's what's weird about like
ju Cha as an ideology about like sort of the
North Korean version of it is that it's a really
really deeply weird kind of Marxism. Like it's not normal.

(34:48):
It's not like an import of Soviet Marxism. It's like
that faction is its own distinct faction that sort of
like wiped out the pro Sovia factions and like was
different than the pro Chinese factions, and so like it
does I guess it kind of makes sense that they
kind of took in a similar way to like there's
elements of Maoism that were taken from earlier Chinese anarchism.
Like I guess it would make sense that they would
absorb it, but it's also so unbelievably not the same thing.

Speaker 2 (35:13):
No, I mean it makes sense. I mean, I mean
the Bolsheviks took an awful lot from the anarchists during
the like October Revolution, and like you know, like yeah,
I mean, fascism takes from you know, everyone takes from Anicus.

Speaker 3 (35:25):
Like it as good as good ideas and good critiques,
and that's it turns out like it's much much better
at producing critiques of other societies than most other people,
like basically the other ideologies. So other ideologies take the
critique and then leave the politics out of it.

Speaker 2 (35:44):
That yeah, that tracks. I got called a tanky on
Twitter the other day by a liberal and I was
just like what. And I think it's because I had
used the word imperialism or whatever, and I'm like, my god,
what did every tankies hate me? Yeah? Anyway, so he
wrote that manifesto. He also probably smuggled counterfeit money, and

(36:07):
he wrote a ton of like novels and shit which
I really want to read, and I did not successfully
find any English translations of them. They might exist. I
didn't find any of my looking, but they are still
in print, some of his books in Korea. When I'm
rich as hell, I'm going to pay translators to translate
all the great novels and shit written by anarchists that
never made it into English. And what's fascinating about this manifesto?

(36:27):
SiZ is cool and I like it is that one.
It is one of the more important documents of the
Korean independence movement. Two. In April nineteen twenty four, a
group called the Eastern Anarchist Federation got started, and this
brings together anarchists from China, Korea, Japan, Vietnam, and Taiwan.
And when they got together, they adopted a platform. And

(36:49):
the platform the anarchists of these five different countries, all
very different positions within the world stage, they adopted the
platform those based on the declaration of the Korean Revolution.
And that is fucking cool, yeah, because it's basically all
of these anarchists from all of these different places they
look at this document about national liberation and are like, yeah,

(37:10):
we want career to be free. That's like kind of
the you know, like we can build from there. You know.
Also cool about this the Eastern Anarchists Federation. I don't
know if you've heard this. Their newspaper. The title translates
to the East. And this makes me happy because there's
this really mid movie called The East from about ten

(37:31):
years ago or something. Have you all seen this movie?

Speaker 1 (37:33):
No?

Speaker 2 (37:34):
Oh my god, have y'all not even heard of this movie?

Speaker 1 (37:36):
No?

Speaker 2 (37:37):
Oh my god. It has that he was the only
famous transactor, trans masculine actor.

Speaker 3 (37:43):
I was gonna say Hunter Shaffer, but clearly.

Speaker 2 (37:45):
Not Elliott Page.

Speaker 3 (37:49):
Yeah, huh.

Speaker 2 (37:51):
It has Elliott Page in it, and they're like an
anarchist cell that's like a terror cell in the US.
It's like clearly based on crime thing.

Speaker 1 (37:58):
This was his fucking face in it. Who's super famous?
What's the name Alexander Skarsgard.

Speaker 2 (38:03):
Yeah, oh yeah, I've never heard this.

Speaker 1 (38:05):
I've quite literally never heard of this, and I like
both of those actors.

Speaker 2 (38:08):
Wow, it's a most it did it clearly didn't do
super well.

Speaker 1 (38:12):
But then again, you called it a mid movie, so
I don't need to care.

Speaker 2 (38:15):
It got it well. Me calling it a mid movie
is saying I like it more than any of my friends.
Valid but they don't like it because it's a reflection
of a specific time of anarchist culture as seen from
an outsider in a way that is like not always
reflective in a positive way, because it's a little culty.
It is very culty. It's a movie about an anarchist

(38:35):
cult that does good things, but like clearly it's made
by someone who's sympathetic but disagrees at the end. Yeah,
and that group is called the East, and it makes
me happy that there's a real group called the East.

Speaker 3 (38:51):
Why would the group why would the American one be
called the East?

Speaker 2 (38:55):
Though?

Speaker 3 (38:55):
Because there's no way that these directors.

Speaker 2 (38:58):
No, I don't know. I don't think they knew about it.

Speaker 3 (39:00):
Korean Americast newspaper.

Speaker 2 (39:04):
I think that they named it that. I get the
impression because they wanted to use like sort of like
a compass, like are you lost, find your way from,
like you know, a guiding star, find the East. They
just wanted a cardinal direction.

Speaker 3 (39:16):
I think they could have made it more realistic by
just saying the word black and picking a random object
like this worst black flag, black wave, black mask, black tide.

Speaker 2 (39:27):
I know, but that style doesn't work as well in
the US. People still do it in the US, but
like overall, calling something black something has just different connotations
in the US.

Speaker 3 (39:38):
That's true, that's true.

Speaker 2 (39:40):
I thought the East was a pretty evocative name, and
I'm just really excited that it's clearly based on the
Eastern Anarchist Federation.

Speaker 3 (39:48):
It's newspaper.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
Also, a random thing that I learned about the Eastern
Anarchist Federation that at least one conference. This is how
I know that there's an anarchist run hospital because one
of the years they met and had their conf at
the hospital. Huh that anarchists had formed and were running
at rules, Yeah, in nineteen twenty eight, that's where their
conference was. These first few years, like nineteen twenty nineteen

(40:11):
twenty five are sort of seen as the early period
of Korean anarchism, which groups were formed and works started
to get done, and in order to kind of understand
what they were doing in China, here's my attempt to
as best as I can understand what's going on in China.
There's a fuck ton going on in China during this time. Yeah,
so much. In nineteen eleven, the two hundred year Qing

(40:35):
dynasty was like, what if we got overthrown by a revolution?
We'll call it the nineteen eleven revolution, and then they
did nineteen twelve, you get the Republic of China, and
it's been that way ever since the end, except that actually, instead,
in nineteen fifteen the monarchy blipped back on the scene
and got overthrown. In nineteen sixteen, the Republic came back,
and then by the time our story happened, it seems
to be get called the warlord era. Yeah, it's never

(40:58):
a good time to be alive. Actually, I mean, I
don't know. It might be fun, it's not a good
time to live A long time.

Speaker 3 (41:05):
It sucked. Yeah, So if you want a really really
exhaustive breakdown of this, I did it that. The first
Bastards episode I ever did was about this guy and
David Jong Jong Chong, who's one of the warlords in
this period.

Speaker 2 (41:18):
He's the dog beat general.

Speaker 3 (41:20):
If you go listen to that episode about that, I
actually learned all of the factions, and that episode has
exhaustive detail on it, and I left out like four
of the big factional fights because like all of the
literally the moment the nineteen eleven revolution happens, like there's
all of these different factions based on like the existing
armies and they all break up, and they're all constantly

(41:44):
fighting each other at different Woolard clicks, so like moving
around the country, seizing territory and losing territory. And it's
one of the most politically complicated periods I have ever encountered.
It's like, Yeah, as I'm saying this, I'm realizing this
applies to three people on Earth. But if you've ever
to do a really, really in depth micro look at
who controls one in Yemen, it's like that but across

(42:06):
a continent.

Speaker 2 (42:07):
Yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker 3 (42:08):
It's so convoluted.

Speaker 2 (42:11):
Yeah, And it's funny because the next paragraph says confused yet,
well me, it probably isn't confused, but the listener might be,
and I might be. Yeah, And what I had is that,
you know, the warlord era. Warlordism starts to end when
the Nationalist Party eventually under Chen Kai Shek, but not

(42:31):
yet and the brand new Communist Party joined forces to
create the National Revolutionary Army, and the anarchists are kind
of working with this, and it's complicated. This lasts not
very long that them getting along. In nineteen twenty seven,
Chen Kai Shek was like, fuck all the commis, they
started fighting each other until once again they formed a
United Front nineteen thirty six because Japan was going to
invade further into China. That's my my speed run of it.

Speaker 3 (42:54):
Yeah, I think I think there's one really important moment.
Definitely kind of neither of the the nationalists were I mean,
the Coyist the Communists are kind of involved in it,
but in nineteen twenty five there are these so nuetely
twenty four is when the nationalists who are still under
Sun yet Sen and the communiststart working together and the communists,

(43:15):
like the like literals becically the Bolsheviks rebuild the entire
nationalist party basically into a party that's built in their image.
It's really interesting because they're the first really I think,
like proper like well they're doing this a little bit
before this, Like this is the first real like communist
party built in the image of like of specifically the Bolsheviks.

(43:35):
And then they immediately get taken over by a proto
fascist and who kills all of them.

Speaker 2 (43:40):
Is that Shan Kai shak as the proto fascist.

Speaker 3 (43:42):
Yeah, Shan Kai Shack.

Speaker 1 (43:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (43:43):
Yeah, it's the sort of proto fascist drug lord cartel guy.

Speaker 2 (43:47):
Okay, I heard him Pretisenta as the centrist of the
three people who could have taken over. Yeah. So, but
I trust you more than I trust this thing. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (43:57):
The thing about Shinkai Shek is that so he's trained
in by rushed by Russian military academies. Right when when
the Bolsheviks rebuild the nationalist army, he's one of the
guys who goes through their military thing. And the Russians
like think that he's a communist, but he's not a communist.
He is an organized crime guy and he's been in
his that's been his whole thing from the beginning, is
that he's very very He's like he's a sworn brother

(44:18):
of this thing called the Green Gang, which is one
of the massive like Chinese organized crime cartels.

Speaker 2 (44:23):
Ok.

Speaker 3 (44:24):
And he basically the moment he like takes power, he
starts turning on both left wing of the nationalists and
the communists and eventually just exterminates them all, kills something
like a million people.

Speaker 2 (44:35):
Cool.

Speaker 3 (44:36):
Yeah, And it's he's the guy who puts an end
to sort of the this period that starts in nineteen
twenty five where there are these mass uprisings against against
the warlords, like in every single Chinese City. There are
hundreds of thousands, sometimes millions of people in the streets.
I mean, this enormous general strike. This spreads into like
Hong Kong, like every every one of these cities has
these unbelievably massive uprisings. I I haven't like directly read

(44:58):
about the Korean anarchists being involved in this, but there's
no way they wouldn't have been in the streets because
this was this is like an antiperialist uprising too, because
like the inciting incident is that I think it was
actually specifically Japanese troops open a fire and striking workers, okay,
and everyone just goes up. And so there's this giant
sort of like super revolutionary period between nineteen twenty five

(45:18):
and nineteen twenty seven where the entire country of China
is just going up and the nationalist army's marketing across
the country and then Chang Kai Shek hijackson and kills
them all. So that's that's the brief thing of the
situation in China, which is, yeah, there's this massive revolution
and then Chang Kai Shek slaughters everyone.

Speaker 2 (45:38):
And that's the kind of thing that like when you
present here's Korean anarchism, and they happen to I'll be
in China. Something's happening in China. This is not a
blank slate.

Speaker 3 (45:47):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I guess like I shall also
mention the Chinese anarchist movement is split because there's a
lot of so they're kind of they're kind of in
the nationalist coalition because the nationalist coalition includes everyone from
the nationals coalition stretches from on the one end, like
almost monarchist landlords to Mao. So this is this is

(46:08):
not a viable political coalition, right in the long run.
This is this is the it's it's everyone who actually
is trying to do politics in China fighting like the
war lords. Yeah, so the anarchists are involved in this,
but some of them, I don't know. There's a lot
going on, partially because by this point everyone has started
to realize that the Bolsheviks are killing anarchists, right.

Speaker 2 (46:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (46:28):
And also a lot of these people have close personal
relationship Shankaishek. Yeah, for reasons. They're just like friends with him.
So when the split happens, some of them break with
a nationalists and some of them kind of break towards
neither because both the communists and the nationalists start killing them.

Speaker 2 (46:46):
Yeah, I got the uh kind of remember which source
it was. One of the things I was reading was
saying that, like the split between the anarchists who supported
the nationalists after everything started breaking up and the ones
who are like, what the fuck are you doing? Yeah,
that split is something that Chinese anarchisms just kind of
never recovered from.

Speaker 3 (47:04):
No, it doesn't.

Speaker 2 (47:05):
And that's like when it stopped being one of the
primary political ideologies of the area.

Speaker 3 (47:10):
Yeah. Well, and the second problem is that they don't
have an army, right, both of the Like, the nationalists
have this army that was trained by the Bolsheviks, which
is the best non imperialist army in China. Yeah, and
then the communists have the other part of this army
that was trained by the Bolsheviks, which is.

Speaker 2 (47:28):
Well, what's interesting, and I think I have a little Okay, Well,
the thing I want to say is just like a
couple paragraphs down, So I'm just going to keep going.
In the meantime, Korean and Chinese and Japanese anarchists in China,
they start setting up schools everywhere, and this is like
kind of what they're doing, right, and they're like full
on primary and secondary schools, and they're also setting up

(47:49):
military schools, and specifically they're doing this thing where they're
trying to train peasants into these peasants militias as a
way to help them drive off both like warlords and
bandits and also the Chinese Communist Party. Yep. Yeah, and
this movement is particularly large in Guangzhou, a city in

(48:09):
southern China, and they raise people's militias because they figured
people's militias would be harder to recuperate into one of
these large militaries. So the impression I get from what
you just said and the sources that I've been looking
at was it sounds like the anarchists didn't have an
army on purpose, which might not have worked out for
them in the end.

Speaker 3 (48:27):
Yeah. Well, and it's it's also a mess because Guangzhou,
so Guangzho is is like very it's very close to
both sort of Shenzhen, and well, Shenzen is not really
a real city at that point, like it's it's not
the city that is now, but it's really close to
Hong Kong. And this is sort of unfortunate because this
is that's like the nationalist heartland.

Speaker 2 (48:46):
Yeah, okay, and so.

Speaker 3 (48:48):
It's it's kind of trying to wager insurgency from there,
is a bit like you're trying to wage an insurgency
from Texas, where it's.

Speaker 2 (48:56):
Like, well, and so what happened is the these schools
were largely funded by the nationalists. Yeah, but eventually the
nationalists are like, fuck this, We're going to force you
to dissolve all this.

Speaker 3 (49:08):
Yeah, we have so many drugs to sell, we do
not have time to run schools. Like, yeah, we are
too busy getting unbelievably rich off the opium trade to
have your peudy anarchist teaching children how to read thing.

Speaker 2 (49:22):
Yeah, No, that doesn't surprise me. Overall, the vibe I
got from reading about Chinese anarchism through this lens of
what the Korean anarchists were doing in China was that
the vibe was like, we're going to build schools and
I guess hospitals, and raise people's militias and help peasants
defend themselves and educate themselves, which is a good vibe.

Speaker 3 (49:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:39):
In the schools that they built, faculty and students lived
eight and worked together. They intentionally included Korean anarchists as
well as Chinese anarchist teachers, I believe also Japanese anarchist
teachers I was reading about. They would teach social movements,
they'd teach critiques of communism, they'd teach how to organize
rural societies, they teach critiques of capitalism. And they had
three goals, a free and autonomous life, a cooperative laboring life,

(50:02):
and a cooperative defensive life. And then the Nationalist Party
ordered it dissolved after less than a year. Yeah, they
really really did their hard right turn. But they keep
doing all this shit. And the reason that this part
is important, this seems to be the vibe that causes
Manchuria do its thing that we're going to talk about later,

(50:24):
you know, because it's a similar this idea, this idea
of free autonomous life, a cooperative laboring life, and a
cooperative defensive life. Yeah, as like paired together. Like I'm
down with that. I mean, obviously it has. It clearly
didn't work out militarily in this particular, you know. But
we're not going to talk about Manchuria yet because we've
still got Japanese Korean anarchists to talk about. In labor

(50:47):
unions and assassination plots, and also we're going to talk
about Korean Korean anarchists who are desperately trying to organize underground.
And on top of that, we're going to eventually talk
about two million people who built a bottom up peasant
society to fight imperialism and live their best lives. And
we'll talk about it all next week, but first we're

(51:09):
going to talk about it could happen here or whatever
you want to talk about. Whatever you want to talk about.

Speaker 3 (51:14):
Yeah, well let's look like what I could happen here.
It's I've realized I haven't actually mentioned what this podcast
is about. Our tagline is things falling apart and how
to put them back together again. So we do a
lot of I don't know we do. We do a
lot of of history stuff. We do a lot of
I guess news labor. I do a lot of labor
reporting also good history. Yeah, I was about to say

(51:36):
I had I had you on the show. I don't
remember how long ago it was, but to talk about
Japanese anarchism. So if that, if that's the thing that
you want to talk about, Yeah, there's some episode about
it in the In the Misty Past that was that
was That was a really good time.

Speaker 2 (51:50):
Yep. And if you want to hear what I have
to say about random ship, God, I'm really selling myself
right now. I am so hungry. We're recording this a
little bit later than we usually record, and it is showing.
But I have a substack called whatever it's called. Just
google Margaret Kiljoy substack and you'll find it and then

(52:10):
you'll hear me write about politics and history and all
the stuff. And some of it's personal and some of
it's not. And the most recent piece I wrote is
called I Hate Election Years, and it's about why I
hate election years. Yea, and yeah, no, it's great. It's
like designed to piss off all the people who are like,
no vote for the lesser evil, or like no voting's

(52:31):
bad or just I'm just like it's how I'm tired
of it, all hate it. I'm tired of it. I
can't wait till next year. I mean, I'm sure everything's
gonna be worse next year. But anyway, that's me, Sophia.
Gu anything you want to plug.

Speaker 1 (52:46):
Oh, I just gonna talk about the importance of voting. No,
I'm kidding, whatever, No, just follow at Coolson media. We
got a bunch of shows that are really really interesting
and well researched, and I just can't recommend them enough
to look out for that, including it could happen here

(53:07):
featuring Mia.

Speaker 2 (53:09):
And if you're ever like how do I make the
world better but you don't know how. There's two things
that are almost never bad, feeding people and rescuing animals.

Speaker 1 (53:18):
I was gonna say, yeah, one of those better be
a pet.

Speaker 2 (53:21):
Yeah no, yeah, no, I was. I was like watching
a just Twitter video of someone rescuing a straight dog
and saving it and befriending it, and you know, like
there's there's certain things that you're like almost never in
the wrong when you feed people, yeah, and you're almost
never in the wrong when you find and rescue animals.

(53:43):
Someone's gonna be like, what do you mean almost never,
And I'll be like I hate discourse by I see
you all next week. Yeah, that's it.

Speaker 1 (53:50):
That's the end, And that's the end of this podcast.
Because my rescue dog is looking at me like excuse me, Yeah,
it's my time, it's why are we not paying attention
to me? And she is correct, Yeah, So I'm gonna
go pay attention to her.

Speaker 2 (54:03):
Dog times see y'all next week. Bye.

Speaker 1 (54:11):
Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of
cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media,
visit our website coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out
on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

Speaker 3 (54:24):
You get your podcasts.