Part Two: The Orange Alternative: The Polish Hippie Surrealists Who Tore Down a Communist Government

Margaret finishes talking with Courtney Kocak about how a bunch of self-styled anarchist gnomes helped collapse a government.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Cool Zone Media.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
Hello, and welcome to Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff,
your weekly podcast that reminds you that when there's bad things,
there's often good things that people try to do in
response to the bad things, like, for example, the bad introduction.
But I then try to be good by saying the
rest of it, which is that my name is Margaret
Kilsroy and I'm your host, and my guest today is
Courtney Cossack. Hi. Hello, just trying to jud it up

(00:29):
a little, No, I appreciate it. Our producer is Sophie Hi,
Sophie Hi. Our audio engineers Rory Hi, Rory Hi, Ri
Hi Ri, and our theme music was written for us
by own woman. And this is part two about the
orange alternative, the thing that I hate as a name
because I wonder if it's Do I think that orange?

(00:51):
Do I not like the word just because nothing rhymes
with it? Or is it just like, am I wrong
in this?

Speaker 3 (00:55):
You're wrong?

Speaker 2 (00:55):
Do you like the word?

Speaker 4 (00:56):
No?

Speaker 2 (00:56):
You're wrong?

Speaker 5 (00:57):
Because there's like a viral clip of Eminem talking about
how everybody's wrong about things not rhyming with the word orange.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
What are some of the examples that he provides?

Speaker 5 (01:07):
He does like a whole thing where he's like, uh, orange.

Speaker 4 (01:11):
Orange you glad?

Speaker 5 (01:12):
I you know he does like a whole thing where
it's like I want to like bring it up, like
I want to print. Hold on, Rory, we're gonna we're
gonna put this clip in because I'm just like having
a mood where I'm like everyone needs to know this.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
Cool, let's do it.

Speaker 4 (01:29):
Thank you.

Speaker 5 (01:30):
Enjoy this clip of me proving Margaret wrong about the
word orange, thanks to eminem from like, I don't know,
this was a long time ago. I remember it from
maybe like twenty years ago.

Speaker 4 (01:42):
I don't know. Deep cut hell. Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:45):
Like people say that the word orange doesn't rhyme with anything,
and that kind of pisses me off because I can
think of a lot of things that rhyme with orange.
You could say, like I put my orange four inch
orange in store ridge an eight porridge with George. You
just have to figure out the science to breaking down words.

Speaker 4 (02:07):
It's so dumb, it's so dumb, nobody.

Speaker 2 (02:10):
I'm kind of sold.

Speaker 4 (02:12):
I'm so glad.

Speaker 7 (02:12):
Yes, he could rap to it, but those were not
one word.

Speaker 4 (02:17):
No, but I buy it. I buy it like that
we can just manipulate language.

Speaker 2 (02:22):
Yeah, No, totally, and I admit I can see defeat
doorhinge and here I was just making it worse by
But I still don't like the way the word sounds,
and I don't know why. I don't think it's the
rhyming thing. Do I just not like the color? Who knows?

(02:42):
But what I do like is the movement called the
Orange Alternative that was in Poland from well, I guess
they technically restarted in two thousand and one, but like
they did, the main thing that they did is between
nineteen eighty one and nineteen eighty nine, and that's what
we're covering today. If you want to hear the beginning
of it, you have to go back and listen to
the other episode. What are you doing? Why would you
start with part two?

Speaker 4 (03:02):
Ridiculous?

Speaker 2 (03:03):
I don't even understand. And so where we last left
our heroes, they are living in communist Poland and they're
not particularly excited about it, and they just learned how
On May first, in nineteen eighty one, there was a
big to do in Warsaw and.

Speaker 4 (03:17):
They're probably high.

Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yes, they are almost certainly high, and so they do
their own street fighting in a big rebellion in ROTSWAF
in June thirteenth, nineteen eighty one, and that city broke
out in rebellion. But the Orange Alternative they're not against
the street fighting, but that's not their thing. They're not like, oh,

(03:39):
that's totally what's going to bring down everything. They're like, no,
it's going to be weirder than that. So they developed
a strategy, and they actually did think very strategically, even
if their strategy had a lot of like question mark
question mark then revolution in it, you know, they developed
a strategy that was actually kind of smart. It was
called a stay home strike. Because sit down strikes where

(03:59):
you like refuse to work and you go sit in
front of the factory and stuff like that. The cops
had just come and beat you up, right, but they
couldn't go door to door to make everyone work. So
it was just get everyone to stay home completely, which
is like counterintuitive because usually you want everyone in the
streets to have the big movement, you know. And so
the Orange Alternative movement started going around the country promoting this,

(04:21):
and the major who's still underground, he's still on the list,
the poster list of people who've been arrested. He starts
going around the country saying, hey, what if we all
stay home from work. It's probable that the government knew
what he was up to and was following him with
undercovers the whole time. But also he is very paranoid,

(04:42):
so he could just be saying that I don't know.
And again it's reasonable to be paranoid when you are
actively being followed by the secret police of a communist government.
We'ren't on communist government, and the secret police had set
themselves up observing the headquarters of the Orange Alternative, and

(05:03):
so the radicals got creative. They decided to use that
to their advantage. They put up posters around town saying
automatic washing machines for sale and then put their own
address on it. And automatic washing machines were a hot
commodity in Poland at this time. Oh so every time
a store got a new shipment and they were gone immediately.

(05:26):
So by putting up these ads, they got a ton
of people to come over to their house. So the
secret police watching saw all the suspicious activity happening, right,
So then they had to follow every single person who
came over to try and buy a washing machine, which
meant they ran out of agents. Brilliant and they told

(05:49):
each person who came over, they were like, oh, we
don't have a washing machine, but did you know you
could do a stay home strike with us?

Speaker 4 (05:54):
I love it. They're educating the people I know.

Speaker 2 (05:59):
And they're also like one of their big things is
to like force people to become radicals by like putting
them in danger, you know, not like in front of
the CoP's gun or whatever. But like, for example, another
thing that they did everywhere they went, the regiment would
squirt toothpaste into the ticket machines on public transit. So

(06:19):
people would come with their ticket and they put it
into the ticket validation machine and it would come out
covered in toothpaste and it wouldn't work, and so they'd
be like, well, I guess I'm still going to get
on the public transit, right. So now they've turned everyone
into passive resistors of martial law because for anyone who
can't see, Corney is making a I don't like the

(06:41):
idea of toothpaste on my ticket face still.

Speaker 7 (06:44):
Okay, the idea has legs, But holding my grubby toothpaste
card makes me ill.

Speaker 2 (06:51):
Yeah, No, that's fair. It might eve been gritty, you know.
I don't know what kind of toothpaste they used. Sure,
it's not better. And so they felt that resistance to
authoritarianism takes two paths at the same time. There is
active resistance, like when workers and students go on strike
or thromolotovs at cops, sorry militia, and there's passive resistance

(07:16):
like people do a stay at home strike or when
they go on public transport without pain. A lot of
their tactics were to transform passerby and observers into members
of the passive resistance, and they were good at it
by nineteen eighty two. By spring of nineteen eighty two,
they started a counter university and the major taught a
class called tactical painting, which is surrealist anarchist graffiti. And

(07:42):
he had this idea and he was convinced this idea
would bring down the regime. And he was kind of
like both right and wrong about it. The idea was
simple and nonsensical and effective. All over the city, there
are these paint spots, right, And you can see this
in the US, you know where like when they buff
out graffiti or when they pay over graffiti. Especially you
can see the like the paint spots. There's some documentary

(08:05):
that someone saw me about years ago, called the Accidental
Art of Graffiti Removal, And it's about the like esthetic
qualities of these paint spots. You know, I always wanted
to do this thing where I would go to it.
I never actually did it where I would go to
a really big building and put tags in such a
way that whenever someone painted over it, they would then
spell out my name.

Speaker 4 (08:25):
Oh good way to get caught, but also cool.

Speaker 2 (08:29):
Yeah, that was the cost benefit analysis. Wasn't working out
for bringing out big enough of a ladder for that.
I mean, obviously I would never do illegal crime. That's
terrible and immoral. And so there's all of these paint spots,
tens of thousands of them all over the city because
people had been painting over the anti government graffiti because

(08:49):
people would go and write down with the regime, and
you know, and he's like, he's not anti people writing
down with the regime, but it's boring, right, So he's
going to paint dwarves on paint spots. That's his idea.
Here we go, and I'm you know, gnomes elves. Dwarves
small people with big red hats, and he uses the

(09:11):
translation dwarves another thing I read an academic paper I
read used elves. I'm using noomes, but I guess I'm
using them interchangeably here. And I know I've already.

Speaker 4 (09:20):
Talked about this with the hat. It's gnomes.

Speaker 2 (09:22):
Yeah, exactly. If a mill he said about this, If
a million dwarves get painted on a million patches, people
will find strength and the government will fall. Later, armies
of dwarves will appear on the street. There will be
dwarves and the militia aka the cops. The general will surrender,
if not to the Cardinal, then I'll come out with
a white flag and surrender to the dwarves. And yeah,

(09:47):
they are like trying to do this thing. One night,
Major and a friend went out and spray painted some dwarves,
and another friend painted the third one the next morning,
and the first person to paint a dwarf during the
day was a woman named Kaisa, who did it during
the street fights in August nineteen eighty two. Basically was like, ah,
it's a riot on, I can probably get away with

(10:07):
this soon. The whole regiment went out with their regimental
orchestra in tow I think they had like a marching
band with like probably drums and a trumpet. I know
Major played trumpet. I feel like they all played music
and then they just went out with their marching band
and painted dwarfs everywhere all over the city on paint spots.

Speaker 4 (10:27):
Did you get a look at some of these gnomes?

Speaker 2 (10:29):
Yeah, they're They're all different. It's cool. Like I was
thinking to just be like kind of like most people
when you're replicating, like a tag, you just kind of
do the same thing over and over again. Now they're
they're creative. They're multi colored. Some are hand painted, some
of them are spray painted, all different styles. They're cool.
There's a not zero chance I'm getting one of these

(10:49):
things tattooed on me. I really liked this.

Speaker 4 (10:52):
They should do an exhibition. This does sound cool.

Speaker 2 (10:55):
I know, I know. Actually some of it ended up
in this book of the like fifty the most Important
Surrealist Pieces of Art or whatever book that I don't
I didn't write the name down into my script, and
the Major wrote that the goal here was threefold. One
to encourage citizens to paint graffiti in order to increase

(11:16):
the number of paint patches and by doing so, change
the city's visual identity. Two One ought to expect an
increase in the number of dwarves in the city's visual identity,
consistent with the convention of the aesthetics of socialist surrealism,
causing a transformation of quantity into quality. So eventually people
will get good at it. Three to bring about the

(11:38):
appearance of three dimensional dwarves in the streets and start
a total surrealist social revolution in the factories. And so
he's like, yeah, all right, we're gonna go.

Speaker 4 (11:48):
Or smokeboar weed.

Speaker 2 (11:50):
Yeah yeah, where was I Yeah? And it didn't generalize
the way that he wanted. He was like, everyone's gonna
do this, and it wasn't. It was him and his friends.
But they went all over the country and they painted
thousands and thousands of dwarves. It was cool as hell.

(12:12):
And one day the major and a friend were caught
painting dwarves or gnomes or whatever because they were painting
on the Militia officer cadet school in the middle of
the day.

Speaker 4 (12:22):
Oh come on, guys, I know.

Speaker 2 (12:25):
The cop asked what they were doing and they were like, oh,
we're painting a pomp palm on a hat. And they
were like, do you have permission? And he says yes,
they say, from who? Well, from God? Okay, And so
the COPU interrogated him. I'm gonna he does a lot
of these pieces of dialogue in his work that are
some of the more some of the things I think

(12:45):
are a little bit more embellished. But this one's good enough.
I'm gonna include it. The cop who interrogated them was like,
all right, why are you painting dwarves? And here's the dialogue?
What do these dwarves mean? I'll tell you under one condition.
What's that? No one can know about it. It's a secret.
Very well, can you keep a secret? Yes? Word of honor,

(13:07):
Word of honor. All right, I'll tell I want a revolution,
a revolution of dwarves. It's a great secret.

Speaker 7 (13:15):
I love it.

Speaker 2 (13:16):
And so he convinced them he was crazy and they
let him go.

Speaker 4 (13:21):
But the thing is, it was all real. You don't
want a revolution of.

Speaker 2 (13:26):
I know, it's fucking brilliant.

Speaker 4 (13:31):
Just tell the truth, yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:34):
You know. And it just sounds so weird, and yeah,
because arresting people for painting dwarves with red hats and
shit just looked bad. And the serious revolutionaries of Solidarity
were like annoyed by it at all. They were like,
you're making our serious down with regime graffiti looks silly,
and they're like, eh, whatever, like you paint that, I'll

(13:55):
paint this, Like what do you want?

Speaker 7 (13:56):
You know?

Speaker 2 (13:58):
And it's confusing because most of what you read talks
about Orange Alternative as part of solidarity and as one
of the most important parts in terms of creating the
visual atmosphere and the sort of lutic the playful element
of it all. But it was also if you read
the people who were involved, it was antagonistic to solidarity
in that it refused to be top down. It always

(14:19):
wanted to be bottom up, and it also wanted to
be playful, and it wanted to be direct and be democratic.
Martial law was eventually lifted and the Dwarfs didn't cause
a revolution, and for a couple of years the major
was depressed. It's always hard when social movements recede, which
is why whenever I'm in a social movement that recedes,

(14:41):
I fill that hole with goods and services. I just
go out and buy, especially swords. Actually, this podcast is
brought to you by swords and how you would be
happier if you owned a sword and actually coordney. Are
there any medieval weapons that you would like to get
a Sophie to get us sponsored by.

Speaker 4 (15:01):
Oh my god, are you serious? Is it? Is it
a sword sponsor? No? No, it could be.

Speaker 3 (15:08):
Yeah, you're not.

Speaker 2 (15:09):
Yeah, but if there's any you know, we could we
could probably figure it out. What's your favorite medieval weapon?

Speaker 4 (15:13):
I would just like a guillotine. Does that count? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (15:16):
That's yeah? I love that.

Speaker 4 (15:18):
Great choice.

Speaker 2 (15:19):
Yeah. Brought to you by the guillotine, the symbol that
contains its own contradiction.

Speaker 4 (15:24):
Can I tell you really quick?

Speaker 7 (15:25):
My husband tried to tell me that that was like
a merciful death.

Speaker 4 (15:30):
We were talking about.

Speaker 7 (15:31):
This the other night and he was like, no, actually,
that was like really a great way to die.

Speaker 3 (15:36):
And I was like, hard disagree. It beats drawn and quartered.
I'll give your husband that, but I much prefer being alive.

Speaker 4 (15:48):
I'm me too, love it.

Speaker 2 (15:49):
I want to get put to death by old age
in a bed surrounded by people I care about, amen,
or even in a fight. Honestly, it's still better. Let
me have adrenaline, let me have a chance at hurting them.
Give me a sword.

Speaker 4 (16:05):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (16:07):
Anyway, His podcast brought to you by various weaponry of
antiquated styles and also whatever comes after this and we're back.
So our hero, the major Waldeck, He's like, I just

(16:32):
want to get out of here. The social movement's dying. Like,
I don't like living in communist dictatorship. I need the
state's permission to leave, right because it's a communist dictatorship.
So he tries to get the state to let him
emigrate to Jamaica for fairly obvious reasons that have to
do with marijuana. But you need permission from the state

(16:53):
to leave. So he writes the state, and he writes
them a long letter, and his core argument is like
I don't want to be here, you don't want me here.

Speaker 4 (17:01):
You guys hate me.

Speaker 2 (17:02):
Yeah, just like fucking let me go. He wrote the
government and said, quote, I know that as an anarchist,
authentically endeavoring to free society from the shackles of the
bureaucratized state, I am enemy number one for any government
which makes emigration an obvious choice. I believe that neither
I nor the state authorities should squander this opportunity.

Speaker 4 (17:24):
Good argument.

Speaker 2 (17:25):
I know. The government just didn't respond. They didn't reject him,
they just didn't let him go. And he does some
soul searching, and look, he's a hip. He will not
be surprised by his next steps. He well, he quit
spoking weed, that one you might be surprised with. Oh,
he replaces it with Buddhism and meditation.

Speaker 7 (17:44):
Was he worried about lung cancer like myself or did
he have other fears?

Speaker 1 (17:49):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (17:50):
Interesting? The impression I get is that he found I
think it seemed to like dull his spirit in a
way that like meditation ground him in a similar way,
but in a way that he felt didn't fuck with
his like revolutionary activities. He like, for a little while,
he was on this kind of anti smoking kick where
he's like the state wants he stoned, you know. But

(18:12):
a few years go by, movements in a lull, and
then Chernobyl blows up in nineteen eighty six, Oh shit,
and everyone is like, it's probably not good that the
communist government is covering this up, and a social movement
kicks back in. And I don't know entirely how much
it's exactly just Chernobyl, but that is the impression I

(18:34):
get that that is one of the primary things that
brings people back out in the streets is they're like,
we really got to do some about this government that's
trying to kill us all. And the Orange Alternative gets
back up to its antics. Antics antics is spelled I
always expect more season it never mind anyway, I swear
I'm not the Stone. And it starts off low key,

(18:57):
but they escalate rapidly. And this is where you get
what you asked for and I promised at the beginning
of it. All crazy weird flash mob style shit.

Speaker 4 (19:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:07):
They start with like they do like what appears to
be like smoke bomb parties in public where they pass
out these like cardboard tubes with colorful things that burn bright.
And then they also like are like, let's all wear
paper hats in public and see what the government does.
They just do weird shit that the government doesn't want
you doing, but it looks really foolish if it tries

(19:28):
to stop you, like, how dare you all wear paper
hats in the public square?

Speaker 5 (19:34):
Right?

Speaker 2 (19:35):
And Okay, my best version of something like this I
ever did. We organized a pirate parade in Manhattan once
during kind of the peak of like kind of like
during an anti war period in like two thousand and
three or four, and so cops were following us, and
we're all dressed up like pirates and we're going around
and yelling you are and you know whatever, and the
cop finally at one point is like, what is this about?

(19:58):
And I broke one of my rules, which is we
talked to cops and pot and like things like this.
But I was like, it was about pirates. And he
was like, this is like an anti war thing. And
I was like, no, no, like we're it's about pirates,
like y'all. And he was just so confused, and I
loved it, and it was one of my favorite actions
I've ever been on. And it was all the same
people who did do anti warshit all the time, so

(20:19):
we just you know, but.

Speaker 4 (20:21):
Was it explicitly anti war what you were doing.

Speaker 2 (20:24):
No, it was just weird public theater strangeness. I don't know,
I'd love it.

Speaker 7 (20:29):
So wait, these people that studied theater, they probably had
like twenty years of pent up. Yeah, like this is
where it's coming out in the flash mob.

Speaker 2 (20:39):
Yeah. On April Fool's Day, they had a huge march
with a giant paper mache centipede puppet weaving its way
through the city where everyone's like under the centipede puppet
like moving through the city. And they really hit their
stride when a group of women among them from a
dorm called xx Latka, which I get the impressions sort

(20:59):
of like sorority ish or something, but it's like, you know,
a group of women's students. They started distributing red dwarf
hats for demonstrations, and the idea was simple. I mean,
this is literally the thing that they'd all been dreaming of.
We're gonna make the dwarf's three dimensional. We're going to
call for a big demonstration where everyone wears dwarf hats,
and we're going to make the government run around chasing

(21:21):
us and stealing our dwarf hats. And that is our plan.
And these hats soon became a major symbol of the
surrealist revolution in Poland. They started off red, but by
nineteen eighty eight they were orange to represent the Orange Alternative.
And everything that I'm going to talk about today is
all stuff in Rodswaft, by and large, but the movement

(21:44):
Orange Alternative did start spreading to other cities around the country.
I just don't know as much about what happened in
those cities. Also, some of it was like, you know,
I read the whole piece by the guy who was there,
and then I like later read an academic piece that
was also like and look, they were also like burning
cop cars and shit.

Speaker 4 (22:01):
Oh okay, you know.

Speaker 2 (22:02):
That part isn't included as much, but they are absolutely
also like getting up to more traditional.

Speaker 4 (22:07):
Memorizing the government.

Speaker 2 (22:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (22:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:11):
The first let's wear hats in public protest or red
hats they've done the paper hats before was June first,
nineteen eighty six. Xx Latka created an auction of enchanted objects,
and that was like one of the things they did,
and so many times on this podcast there are single
sentences in history books that I would read a book about.

(22:33):
All I know is that they had an auction of
enchanted objects, like this is where we all could have
gotten our swords.

Speaker 4 (22:40):
Fascinating. Yeah, I would read that book.

Speaker 1 (22:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:45):
And then they also the women distributed hats to people
all the while cops looked foolish trying to snatch people's
hats and arresting people dressed up as dwarves. Cops started
arresting people, but more people came. Major was arrested pretty off.
He's a very recognizable figure. He always walks around in
that like coat and with the shiny buttons, and he's
a huge beard and stuff.

Speaker 4 (23:06):
Like, dude, take your suit off for a second.

Speaker 2 (23:08):
Yeah, he's gonna learn that eventually, actually, But he's busted
out of the rest van by the crowd and he
like gets out starts throwing candy everywhere, and then they
arrest him again and they throw him back at it,
gets driven off the jail, and cops are screaming take
off your hats through megaphones, and everyone is just laughing

(23:28):
at them, like people are just coming out to laugh
at the government. It's kind of like how like actually
people talk about how to deal with the right wing
right now, where we're like, oh, it's remind them that
they are laughable, right because Nazis hate being like the
authoritarians hate being laughed at. They want their authority respected
more than anything. And all the laughing and screaming take

(23:51):
off your hat's attracted more onlookers and people started singing
some song called We Are the Dwarves that I think
is probably some kind of kids song, and this made
press all over the nation. On October one, they met
up in public to distribute necessities that are hard to
get in Poland, including toilet paper and menstrual pads. Major

(24:11):
was arrested for distributing menstrual pads. This is not the
last time he is going to get arrested for distributing
menstrual pads for free.

Speaker 4 (24:18):
Feminist King, thank you Major.

Speaker 2 (24:21):
I know I was a little bit nervous when I
first started reading the book because at the very beginning
the book is called The Lives of the Orange Men,
and it's about some of the men involved, and in
the introduction he says like, he lists a whole bunch
of women who are really important and involved, and he's like,
but I didn't feel like I could tell their story.
And at first I was like, oh, this seems like
a cop out, and it's still not how I would

(24:42):
recommend to him to do it, right, But after reading
more about him, I'm like, oh no, he like legitimately
probably as part of the feminist may Louis was part of.
He probably was like as a man, I shouldn't be
telling these people's.

Speaker 4 (24:53):
Stories, you know, all right, I could respect that.

Speaker 2 (24:57):
Yeah, Like again, I think you to put women in
your book, you know, but yeah, No, it's a very
actively feminist movement and this makes the government look like idiots.
They're arresting a hippie for giving away menstrual pads because
also it keeps pointing out that, well, no one can
get these, and like the feign press is always like, wait,
what do what do people do if they don't have them?

(25:20):
And it's just kind of this like everyone's like the
joke that apparently everyone was saying is like, oh no, no,
good communist women doments rate not problem.

Speaker 7 (25:29):
That's ridiculous. I'm reading this book Mother Winter. It's actually
really fucking good. But they're in some Soviet block country
in the eighties and they don't have toilet papers, so
they're wiping their asses with newspapers and that's.

Speaker 4 (25:44):
Yeah, that's a rough reality.

Speaker 2 (25:46):
Yeah, and in more ways than one. Yes, good old
butt puns. Yeah, no, it's it's a it's it's a
fucking problem that they can't get their shit, get their shits.
God damn it.

Speaker 4 (26:02):
You're good.

Speaker 2 (26:03):
Okay, Yeah, thanks, I totally did that on purpose, absolutely,
And so a few weeks later they all went out
and it's okay if they didn't dress like cops. Instead,
there was like certain colors that the militia used. I'm
not sure what they were, and they painted themselves like
their bodies in those colors like red or whatever, you know,

(26:23):
and then went out and acted like cops, and they
gave away fake tickets because one of the main things
the cops would do is traffic. They would like stand
in the middle of intersections and tell everyone where to
go whatever, and then yell at people for jaywalking. So
all of the Orange Alternative just acted like cops while
in weird body paint and were like giving out fake
tickets for jaywalking to people. And when they all got arrested,

(26:45):
they were like, what, no, We're just trying to help,
Like you seemed overwhelmed, so we're just out there doing
your work for you with you, you know, and soon
they're out of jail again. They the fact that they
get out of jail fairly quickly, rightly, is why I
think that they weren't like machine gunning crowds at this point,
right you know, yeah, yeah, and soon Okay, So next

(27:07):
time they all go out and everyone wears tails and
bows made out of toilet paper, and the cops arrested
sixty eight adults, one child, and two dogs for wearing
toilet paper bows and then you get to my nerd
history hearts favorite of their actions, which is okay. In
nineteen seventeen, during the Russian Revolution, which I did a

(27:30):
six parter about because I'm that kind of girl, anarchists
and communists stormed the Winter Palace in Russia and did
the Second Russian Revolution of that year. This led to
a major civil war where the Bolsheviks crushed all their
former allies, turn on the anarchists and all the other
leftist socialists. And because of this, because of the civil war,

(27:51):
the symbol of the anarchist movement in Russia, the black flag,
was not flown since that guy with the nice beard
that he liked named Peter Kopak and the zoologist. His
funeral in nineteen twenty one was the last time that
the Bolsheviks allowed a public anarchist procession. So the black
flag was off flown in public in any kind of

(28:12):
major way until the Orange Alternative. Because on the seventieth
anniversary of the storming of the Winter Palace, which is
like a big holiday right in USSR and stuff, the
Orange Alternative was like, how can we just like really
fuck with them? And the answer was to kind of
become more communist than the Communist government. They were like,

(28:34):
we're going to recreate the Storming of the Winter Palace
with like cardboard battleships and hobby horses that were going
to ride as like our horses for the cavalry, and
huge red banners and also black flags. And it's going
to be one part protest, one part theater, all surrealism,

(28:56):
and they're going to outread the reds. How could the
Communists be if they all wore red and recreated the
Storming of the Winter Palace. And so they put out
a proclamation that was like everyone come wearing red, red lips,
red nails, a baguette covered in catsup, whatever you feel like,
just bring something red. And they had a special dog

(29:18):
costume competition as part of it. There's so many dogs
in the story.

Speaker 4 (29:23):
I have to say I love the hobby horses, I know,
I know.

Speaker 2 (29:27):
I love that they're like, to me, this is a
kind of important emotional thing where the black flag rises again.
They're like riding hobby horses with me, you know, like
into it. It's so weird.

Speaker 4 (29:36):
I'm like two into those girls on TikTok. The hobby
horse stuff.

Speaker 2 (29:40):
I've seen some of it. Yeah, yeah, so they uh,
there is part of what they're recreating too. Is this
like one of the last times that socialists tried to
have a pluralistic, democratic, communist revolution in Russia, right, And
so they're like recreating that through theater. But it also

(30:03):
sort of weirdly becomes, from my point of view, kind
of true because the Bolsheviks tried to kill socialism in
communism and anarchism by branding authoritarianism as communism, and for
seventy years they succeeded, and then playfully, this rebellious spirit
rises again and fucking destroys them and I love it.

Speaker 4 (30:24):
Wait, it works.

Speaker 2 (30:25):
So this isn't what brings down the government, but things
are coming to a head during this time. They are
within a year of bringing down the communist government at
this point. Oh, this is like part of the revolution
that ends communism in Poland. And I really like that
guy Peter Kropockin and a zoologist. He went to his
grave depressed because he was his old man and he

(30:48):
thought the revolution was going to happen, and then the
Bolsheviks took over and made everything a nightmare, and he
went to his grave really sad, and he gets the
last fucking laugh because people that he inspired fucking brought
down the Bolsheviks, and it just makes me really happy,
awesome and yeah, and they also have hobby horses and

(31:08):
cardboard battleships, and the Major in a brilliant tactical thinking
thinking about all the times he constantly gets arrested immediately
because everyone knows he's there. He shaved his head and
his beard, and he didn't wear his signature long black
coat with shiny silver buttons. Oh and so we didn't
get arrested.

Speaker 4 (31:29):
I would have told him to do that like ten
years ago.

Speaker 7 (31:32):
But I.

Speaker 2 (31:36):
And the cops arrived and they started arresting everyone wearing red,
and they'd be like, get that old lady with a
red scarf, and everyone's running around and it looks real
bad to be the communists arresting everyone wearing red. Yeah,
and the event gets international press. The Communist cops shouting
arrest the reds makes him look like fucking idiots. I

(31:57):
think the orange alternative is unparalleled in history and making
the state look bad, like looking like fools, you know, amazing.
The next big action they do, Major goes in drag
and he talks about this for like a page or
so and I can't totally get like exactly what it
means to him, but he goes in drag and he

(32:19):
like later he's like, I think I understand a little
better about how women are treated by society. He's also
convinced that breaking gender norms is part of bringing down authoritarianism.
And he gets arrested and like, as someone who you
know looks like a man wearing a dress, it is
extra scary to be arrested as a was anyone wearing
a dress, but like, you know, m And then their

(32:42):
next action they throw a Saint Nicholas Day action where
everyone wears Santa Claus outfits. All the Santas tie themselves
to each other so that they're harder to arrest, and
the press just eats up cops arresting Santa Claus. And

(33:02):
because of Saint Nicholas's Day, professional Santa Clauses are like
out about anyway, right, oh, because it's just.

Speaker 4 (33:09):
You know, a different holiday for them, right, They're like, shit,
I'm trying to work, man.

Speaker 3 (33:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:13):
And they're all getting arrested too, which makes them into
passive resistors, right. And the major goes dresses the devil
because I guess why not I don't know. If you
want to dress like the devil, you can buy a devil. No,
we're probably not sponsored by spirit Halloween, it's.

Speaker 4 (33:30):
A commercial holiday.

Speaker 2 (33:31):
Christmas, Oh yeah, we're sponsored by Christmas. Go buy things.

Speaker 5 (33:38):
Is it Christmas or is it on the feast day
of Saint Nicholas.

Speaker 2 (33:41):
Oh it's on the fast December six or something.

Speaker 5 (33:44):
So then it's my birthday.

Speaker 7 (33:45):
So oh oh by Sophie birthday present from one of
the brilliant sponsors.

Speaker 5 (33:51):
Yeah, exactly, think think of me, young listeners.

Speaker 2 (33:54):
Buy Sophie's swords. Yeah, and buy whatever comes next because
it will obviously be good because we individually vet every
single ad and can speak to all of them being
good and moral. That part's a lie I've learned from
this book, The Surrealist Thing. Here's an ad or two

(34:20):
and we're back, okay. After the Saint Nicholas, they're like,
we're going to call for a huge festival and it's
gonna be a public ballet. Here's where we get real
fucking what's that word flash, mobby? Yes, and so everyone's
learning ballet to get ready for the Proletario Festival, which

(34:40):
is like Rio is capitalized. At first, I thought it
was gonna be was like a misspelling because if it
was like my Friends, it would have they would have
capitalized riot instead of Rio, you know, but it's actually Rio,
like Rio de Janeiro, where they're like, oh, it's gonna
be carnival, you know.

Speaker 4 (34:54):
Ah yeah, And.

Speaker 2 (34:55):
The handbill said it was going to be so fabulous
that the cops wouldn't touch it. Quote, let's do a
little bit of hocus pocus and either the militia will
disappear or they'll join the carnival.

Speaker 4 (35:07):
That's cute.

Speaker 2 (35:08):
And this time the cops they're like, we're like really
getting into like the regime is like starting to collapse
at this point, right, They're getting less and less capable
of holding onto power, and they are looking more and
more ridiculous. And so the cops try arresting their organizers
ahead of time. But the secret Police is actually fairly infiltrated,

(35:28):
I think by the Orange alternative. I think that they
actually have friends in the Secret Police who are tipping
them off to stuff. And I do know that they
had also broken the code that was used over the
radios by the Secret Police. So everyone went and slept
elsewhere and no one was arrested beforehand, and on the

(35:50):
day of huge crowd arrives these you know, the things
that they're they're happenings that they're called are getting bigger
and bigger, and people are dressed in all sorts of costumes,
including what I would not recommend, which is a bunch
of people came dressed as KKK.

Speaker 7 (36:04):
No, guys, yeah, you have so many other options.

Speaker 2 (36:08):
I know. I think if you're on the other side
of the iron curtain, you're probably thinking, like, this is
basically the same as dressing up as a devil or something.

Speaker 1 (36:15):
You know.

Speaker 2 (36:16):
I don't know, but I don't recommend it. It's one
of those things where I was like, man, my story
would be easier if I don't put in that they
dressed like the I'm like, I should be honest, only
a couple of them. But then it's annoying because then
all the KKK people get arrested, and then I think
makes the cops look great.

Speaker 4 (36:33):
Yeah, you know, were they just lazy? Were they like
I have? All I had was a white sheet?

Speaker 2 (36:39):
So I think that they are not on top of
avoiding cultural appropriation, And yeah, no, I'm sure that that's
part of it. Like I think so, I think that
they're just like we're just going to dress up in
like costume, like weird exotic things from foreign lands, you know.

Speaker 4 (36:54):
Bad call.

Speaker 2 (36:55):
Yeah, the major was not wearing a KKK outfit. He
was arrested while playing trumpet as part of the marching band. Okay,
and supposedly again, all of his interactions with secret police
are the parts that I'm like, really, I don't know.
He got so used to hanging out with the secret
police because he got arrested all the time. They always
interrogate him that he brought two dwarf figurines in his

(37:16):
pocket to give them as presents for when he was
going to be in their custody, and they gave him
a little toy car in return. Oh, and he promised
that he would organize a new holiday just for them,
Undercover Agent's Day, And so that was their next action.

(37:38):
They all trust them. Like undercover agents was like fucking
just like slicked back their hair and wore like a
specific style of suit that every like guy wore when
they would being an undercover agent. And then they would
go around and like pretend to like take pictures clandestinely
of people and like check people's papers and like look

(37:59):
inside people's shoes and just be really obnoxious.

Speaker 4 (38:03):
That is so funny, I know.

Speaker 7 (38:05):
Also kind of like they're bad undercover agents if people
know what their style is.

Speaker 2 (38:11):
I know, well, okay, yes and no, because one of
the points of undercover agents, it's twofold. One you need
the real undercovers who no one knows who are, and
two you actually need the obvious ones because part of
the point of Clindestine operations against revolutionary groups is to
make them paranoid, so you actually want some of your

(38:33):
agents to be seen. They did this a lot in
the US against groups in the sixties and seventies, where
like part of the whole point of disruption is to
get everyone thinking, oh, that guy's a cop. Oh, that
guy's a cop. You know, oh interesting, yeah, and so
this is a way to like deflate that a little bit.
And Okay, a thing happened that probably happened where they

(38:58):
knew before they did this, they to have even more
handbills than usual, right, because otherwise they're actually just being cops,
you know, They like really need everyone to be in
on the gag. So they needed hella fucking handbills printed.
But they're like printing spot had just gotten blownup because
handbills are totally illegal too, right, So they like have
to go find an underground printer or whatever, and they

(39:19):
show up it's like the night before, and the secret
police surround the building and are like going to shut
them down, and then they all left. And the major
likes to think this happened because the Secret Police were
touched that the Orange Alternative had finally included them directly
in one of their art projects. I think that part's mythologizing.

(39:42):
I bet they had some other reason they left, but
I don't know.

Speaker 7 (39:46):
I'm visualizing this and it looks like a mister Being
kind of situation with the like going around opening up people.

Speaker 2 (39:56):
Yeah, I think it's hilarious.

Speaker 4 (39:59):
It is hilary. It is so good.

Speaker 2 (40:01):
I had a friend who grew up or her dad
was an ambassador to Russia during the USSR, and at
one point the family lost their cat. So the ambassador
of goes over to the potted plant and is like, man,
isn't it crazy we lost our cat of the following description,
And about an hour later, a man just like shows

(40:22):
up at their door, being like, I found this cat
for some weird reason. I think it might be yours
gives them their cat back.

Speaker 4 (40:27):
Oh crazy.

Speaker 2 (40:29):
Yeah, Communist society was like full of undercovers. It was
that stuff's real.

Speaker 4 (40:35):
I don't like it.

Speaker 2 (40:37):
No, I wouldn't like it either. A couple weeks later,
they went out to go distribute menstrual pads in public again,
and it was International Women's Day, which is an important holiday,
especially actually in the communist era, because that's the day
that the Russian Revolution started, because women actually started that revolution,
because we get written out of history constantly and everyone

(40:57):
talks about Lenin and no one talks about whatever. Anyway,
I didn't know that. Yeah, you know, some women who
went on strike and then a bunch of people were like, oh,
we should do that too, And that was the February
Revolution that brought down the czar. And so they arrest
the major for distributing menstrual paths in public, and this
time they're like, what if we put him on trial

(41:19):
and keep him in jail, because we keep arresting him
like every week. You know, they're like, okay, I think
he spends two months in prison for making a mockery
of the state before his trial, So the Orange Alternative
used his incarceration and his trial to make a mockery
of the state. He becomes an instant martyr, intellectual sign letters,

(41:43):
student stage protests, and the government looks dumb as hell.
And at his trial, all of his witnesses Okay, there's
two versions of this, one in an academic article and
one in his memoirs, But either way, it's funny. Everyone
who came to the trial pretended to be dating him,
both men and women. That part's true either All of

(42:06):
the witnesses when they went on the stand were like, Oh,
I'm his boyfriend, or oh, I'm his girlfriend and then
proceeded to say what they were going to say, or
you weren't allowed into the trial unless you were his fiancee,
and so every single person was like, I'm engaged to
be married to that man.

Speaker 4 (42:23):
Amazing.

Speaker 2 (42:24):
And his version as everyone was my boyfriend and girlfriend
on the stand. And I don't know which one's true,
but either way, it's funny as hell and queer as hell,
and I love it because this would have been crazy
radical in the eighties in the US. Yeah, you know, like.

Speaker 4 (42:39):
No one knew polyamory. This is a new.

Speaker 2 (42:42):
Thing, and like boys dating boys, you know, Yeah, and
he was acquitted. Hey, awesome. Did they let him go
to Jamaica. No, he was never allowed to go to Jamaica.
And then on June first, nineteen eighty eight, they finally
had what they'd wanted this entire time. They had the

(43:03):
Revolution of the Dwarves. It was their largest happening that
they ever did. Thousands of people and dwarf hats came
out for it, and so the city were trying to
be clever. They were like, oh, we're going to overwhelm
it by calling for our own demonstration at the same
time and place right. Instead of the city taking over

(43:24):
the Dwarf event, it went the other way around, and
everyone who came out for the city's event joined the
Revolution of the Dwarves. And it like ten thousand people
marched behind a giant dragon puppet with everyone wearing orange
gnome hats.

Speaker 4 (43:43):
Amazing. How big is this place that you've been telling
us about.

Speaker 2 (43:47):
It is a big city now. It currently has one
point two five million people, so it's not like the
entire city came out.

Speaker 4 (43:54):
It's a chunk of people. It's a chunk of people.

Speaker 2 (43:57):
Yeah. And then they had like one more weird action
that I can't find more information about and his account
of it does not explain what happened, but I'm going
to do my best anyway, because it's really interesting. For
at least a couple decades now, people in Europe, especially anarchists,
as I understand it, have thrown what are called no

(44:18):
border camps where they go to especially at the borders
of the EU. They'll go and people from both sides
of the border will come to the border and hold
it as one big protest area so that people can
move freely back and forth across. And I think they're
really cool. I think that they threw one of these
between Poland and Czechoslovakia, or they were trying to go

(44:42):
to Czechoslovakia to inspire the Czech radicals to also rise
up because Poland was way ahead in terms of like
how much they were fighting the Communist state, or some
combination between the two. I don't know. All I know
is that they dressed up in like full anarchist battle

(45:05):
regalia from like the equivalent of like they're like costs.
I think their costplane is like nineteen tens Russian revolutionaries
right with black flags and then marched on Czechoslovakia and
has freaked out. The border guards of both sides, the
armies are like fully mobilized, like and it happens in
like snowy mountains, and at one point the major he's

(45:28):
dressed up like a samurai and he's on a ski lift,
but he's only a couple meters in the air, and
then they like get stopped and so he drops down
and he's like trying to get away, but they arrest him.
And while he's in jail, he looks out over the
hills and he sees the black flag rising in the
snow as the army marches towards his position, and the

(45:51):
secret police have to whisk him away before his comrades
can come rescue him. Oh that's all I can figure out.
I don't know how it went. I don't know what
his purpose was. I'm so annoyed.

Speaker 4 (46:06):
But wait, you know that major is still alive, right, yes?

Speaker 2 (46:09):
Yeah, how do you know that? Uh? Well, okay, his
Wikipedia doesn't have his Wikipedia uses the present tense, and
he got his PhD in twenty twelve, and but like
there's not any updates from about the past ten years.

Speaker 4 (46:23):
But you know, yeah, let us know, Major, I.

Speaker 2 (46:28):
Know, if you're listening what was that one about. Please
explain slightly more. I appreciate your surrealist to take on things.
Please talk to someone who's less, who's more of a historian,
and let them write it too. And then in nineteen
eighty nine the Communist government gave into pressure and engaged

(46:51):
with talks with Solidarity, and there were free elections and
the Communist government fell.

Speaker 4 (46:57):
Amazing, Wait, what year was that nineteen eighty nine? Nineteen
eighty nine, yes.

Speaker 2 (47:02):
Okay, within a year of the Big Revolution of the Dwarfs.
And of course the anarchist dreams of the Orange women
and men were never realized. They didn't create a stateless
socialist society. Capitalism hit the country, but the specific despotic
authoritarian state was crushed, and no small part thanks to
the laughing stock that surrealists turned it into an academic name.

(47:25):
Luciana Romanico argues that quote declining state capacity was further
paralyzed through the theatrical device of street level demonstrations involving humor. Furthermore,
because of the intensity of the absurdity of humorous devices
employed in resistance messages, the Soviet apparatus was unable to

(47:47):
fragment Polish opposition through the standard course of tactics typically
used by the regime, spontaneous collective comprehension of humorous nuances,
unified polls on both sides of the ideological battle, thus
preventing the exogenous state actors in Moscow from mandating violence
to quell uprisings. And so basically they're like, all of

(48:10):
the polls found this funny, and so they couldn't divide
this movement the way that they would normally divide this
movement along ideological lines because everyone thinks it's hilarious. You
can't just go beat up the dwarfs. And there's like
other things that that same academic argues about how it's

(48:35):
an interesting piece, but it's you know, the tone of
it is fairly academic, which is its purpose. But it
argues that it basically made it harder for the government
to like shoot people and shit in the streets because
the soldiers don't want to because they're like, oh, that's great,
because it reminds everyone that these are just people and

(48:56):
they're playing, you know, they're doing something interesting. You don't
feel like you're the good guys when you repress them.

Speaker 4 (49:05):
No, it shouldn't be illegal to play, No, so what
and you're.

Speaker 7 (49:11):
Probably going there, But so Poland since then, I mean, yes,
it's like capitalists, but is it freer?

Speaker 2 (49:19):
So it's I believe, and I am not an expert
on this, I believe overall it would be safe to
refer to it as a freer place in the way
that like, I don't believe the US is truly a
free country, right, but there are things that people can
do here that you can't do under communism in the
twentieth century in Eastern Europe, right, And you know, I mean,

(49:44):
like there are still a lot of problems that people
have with the state, and you know, a lot of things,
and capitalism is a major problem, right, But I am
operating under the idea that like ending communist rule and
Poland and allowing to democracy, allowing people to vote to
see what happens, you know, even though again, like representative
democracy is and this true democracy and money votes every

(50:06):
day and we only vote every now and then, and like.

Speaker 4 (50:08):
It's not a perfect system, but it's like way fucking
better than whatever was happening before.

Speaker 2 (50:13):
Yeah, that's the vibe I am getting from the stuff
I'm reading about it, you know, and telling the story
about the fall of you know, the communist regime and
pull and through the lens of the Orange Alternative is
downplaying the ten million members of Solidarity to focus on
the women and men of the Orange Alternative. But it's
also like there's that meme that goes around where people

(50:35):
are like, oh, if you go back in time, you're
always worried about how one tiny thing can change everything.
And yet we don't live our lives as if one
tiny thing we do now can change everything. Yes, and
yet people have done this without the same effect time
and time again. Right, but sometimes it does happen. When

(50:55):
we throw sparks, sometimes they catch. And you know, even
the like I'm going to get everyone to draw dwarves
on walls didn't work, but it laid the groundwork for
something that did. Yeah, you know, and it kept up
people's morale.

Speaker 4 (51:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (51:15):
No, I love how playful it was. And I am
a big believer in the butterfly effect.

Speaker 2 (51:21):
Yeah, totally. And it's like nice to remember we have agency,
you know.

Speaker 4 (51:26):
Yeah, fuck yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:28):
And the major he ran for president in the upcoming elections.
He did not come anywhere close to winning. He got
enough signatures to get on the ballot. He came in
like at least fourth, good for him. The communist did better,
the capitalist did better. The Yeah, for some weird reason,
the playful anarchist who probably wasn't going to take it
seriously didn't win. He moved to Paris for a while

(51:48):
and started writing about everything he'd seen, and then eventually
he moved back to Poland. There's a statue of a
dwarf still in roque cloth, and the city has adopted
the little Guy's a bit of a symbol driving tourism,
which actually makes the major Madison because he's anti communist,
but he's also anti capitalist and now his you know,
symbol is being used for things he doesn't like. But
it's still kind of cute that the city is like,

(52:10):
there's our guy, you know, the little gnomes. We like
the gnomes. He got his PhD in Warsaw in twenty twelve.

Speaker 5 (52:17):
Do you know what?

Speaker 4 (52:17):
He studied.

Speaker 2 (52:19):
Art with a fucking long ass title about how I mean,
he studied his own movement, you know, he studied like
how art interacts with like playfulness and social change or whatever. Yeah, no,
I honestly it's probably really interesting stuff. And the Orange Alternative,
which was inspired in part by the Dutch Cabuters, which
actually cabalter the people I mentioned way at the beginning

(52:42):
from the nineteen seventies in the Netherlands who came before
all this, Kubouchers are also gnomes right, and the Orange
alternative spread to Czechoslovakia and Hungary, and then in Ukraine
they had the Orange Revolution of two thousand and four.
I don't know a ton about, but it was fought
against rigged elections that had were trying to hand Ukraine

(53:03):
over to a pro Russian party. So it continues to
have a wild legacy.

Speaker 4 (53:09):
That's a life well lived, good job major.

Speaker 2 (53:12):
I know. And there's a way other you know, he
was like the some ways the leader, the central figure,
but in otherwise he just like completely wasn't and but
like but he did good. Yep, that would be I
would be happy were I him. That would I would
look back upon my life and be proud.

Speaker 4 (53:30):
Amazing, what a fun story.

Speaker 2 (53:33):
And if people want to look at your work and
be proud, how should they do that?

Speaker 7 (53:40):
Oh so I joked in part one that I'm trying
to start a cult, and I legit am trying to start.

Speaker 4 (53:46):
A writing cult.

Speaker 7 (53:48):
I'm teaching this writing intensive it's called back.

Speaker 4 (53:51):
To School Pitch Party.

Speaker 7 (53:52):
I did a version called Midsommer Pitch Party in July
and it was so fucking fun. My students wrote like
twenty seven to forty thousand words and they have got
bylines in the Huffington Post and The Sun and it
was just everyone had a really good time. So anyway,
I'm doing that again in September. All the info is

(54:14):
on my website, Cornycosac dot com. So if you're a
writer who would like meet a be your dominatrix, I
will do that.

Speaker 2 (54:24):
Hell yeah, awesome. And if you want to hear more
cool Zone media podcasts, you should listen to Weird Little Guys.
It's not about cabalters or dwarves or gnomes, but instead
about weird little annoying Nazis. If you want to read
more of my writing, I have a substack post every Wednesday.
Half of the posts are free. The posts that are

(54:46):
more like important or political or often like reflections on
the history that I write about, those are all free.
And then the ones that are more personal. I'm like, yeah,
you can. You can subscribe to my substack if you
want to hear me write my memoirs and shit like that.
Just search Margaret Kiljoy substack and you'll find it great substack. Thanks.

Speaker 5 (55:05):
Yeah, I have one more thing to plug, if that's
all right with you, mac Bie Fine, Yeah, what's up? Fine?
Behind the Bastards is now on YouTube with video behind
the Bastards. Channel is YouTube dot com slash at behind
the Bastard. So if you want to see Robert's.

Speaker 4 (55:20):
Face and Sophie's face and your face, sure that is there.
The art is so excited, the artwork is great. Enjoy.

Speaker 2 (55:31):
Yeah, all right, we'll see you next week when we
talk about more cool people the cool Stuff.

Speaker 1 (55:35):
Bye bye, cool People Who did Cool Stuff is a
production of cool Zone Media.

Speaker 5 (55:45):
For more podcasts and cool Zone Media, visit our website
Coolzonemedia dot com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.