Michael Smith on Making It and What To Do Once You’ve Made It

Ally is joined by NBC Sports’ Michael Smith to discuss his meteoric rise within sports media, leaving ESPN, and the numerous pearls of wisdom he gained throughout his career.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Today's podcast is sponsored by Sea Geek. If you didn't know,
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Whether you're trying to go to a Nets game, Liberty game, concert,
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need Sea Geek. Welcome to Courtside Conversation. I'm your girl,

(00:32):
Ali Love. After years on the Heartwood as the in
arena host for the Brooklyn Nets, It's time for me
to take a courtside. We're here with artists, athletes, and
all of our favorite people to break down the game
called life. We're getting real about the grow up and
the glow up. So let's take a seat. Today's guest

(00:58):
is a sports journalist, commentator, and an incredible host in
his own right. He's the founder of a multimedia company,
Inflection Point Entertainment, and truly has done and seen it
all in the sports world, from the sidelines on ESPN
to the podcast space. He is incredible. Let's go ahead
without further ado and take a courtside but the conversation
with Michael Smith. Oh my gosh, everybody, this is happening.

(01:23):
I've been waiting for this moment. It's my brother from
another mother. I'm taking that from you. Michael Smith, UM
sports journalists. Obviously, many of you will know him from
ESPN as a commentator and host, currently the co host
of NBC Sports Peacock Show. Brother from Another and he
is my brother. We hadn't met in ages. We knew
of each other, fans of each other, met at of

(01:44):
course at Harvard and of course fast friends, fast family.
So Michael Smith, thank you so much for spending time
with me. It is it is absolutely my pleasure, Ali,
and I mean that in always than one. UM. I
still can't thank you enough for saying hello to my wife.
Let me tell you something you have to understand. See
that right there, that's gonna get me cool points. So
I have taken my wife to the White House twice

(02:08):
to meet President and Mrs Obama. Okay, my wife has
been to Mexico with Michael Jordan's and me, not just
Michael Jordan by herself, with me too, but for the
first time in twenty years. I am a big deal
because I know Ali love so thank you. You've helped
me my own in my own marriage. That makes me
feel so good. UM. As we take this conversation courtside

(02:30):
of the side conversation. I feel like the first note
I did make in my run of show was to
say hi to Sarah. I really did. I'm not lying
because it was an honor to meet her. And the
reason I think that's important to highlight is black love
is important to highlight. You know, growing up in a
family where my mom is one of ten kids, seeing
marriages that last, we're seeing love and commitment that last,

(02:51):
and seeing families that stick together really important. And so
when we met, obviously it was like one of those
moments where was like, this had to happen at some point,
and it's happening now and we're both have me about it.
And the fact that you were just like, let me
call my wife because she's in on this too, that
really did speak to my heart. And just like the community,
how we're all a part of this and we're all
a part of it together. So I appreciate that if

(03:12):
you're starting off deep, you're about to get every uh,
get an emotional up in there talking about black low.
Let's go yes, of course, um, before we get into it,
you know, the game is always played in the mind
before it's played on the pitch to field, the court,
and so what we did is we're going to take
it to the court this time four quarters, and we
have a little half time fun. So let's kick it
off as the game starts with the first quarter, let's

(03:34):
throw back to where you started. I think it's so
important as humans. I didn't know growing up what my
opportunity sets were. I didn't know what was available to me,
and I had to just figure it out by watching
people like you on TV and saying, like, Wow, what
he does is amazing? Could I do that? What is
that called? Uh? Growing up? Did you always know that
hosting or conversation or having a point of view, a

(03:56):
public point of view was always going to be your
road map? Let alone was an option for you? How
did it start? Uh? Excellent question, not surprising. Um, like
most things. I mean, it started with seeing somebody who
looked and sounded like me, Um on television. I gotta

(04:17):
give a shout out to my late brother from another
Stewart Scott. I came up in an era, uh, you know,
in the nineties. Um, seeing Stewart Scott on national television
and not just seeing a black face, but seeing blackness
on television, seeing unapologetic blackness on television. Um that was
huge for me. Um. So right around high school, I

(04:41):
would say, is when I realized, Hey, this this journalism thing,
it's mass communications thing. Uh, it could be a career
for me. And I had teachers. I went to McDonald
thirty five Senior High School in New Orleans. Shout out
to Ron Eagles class. I had teachers that poured into me.
It was an all black high school that most of
my family attended. So a lot of tradition, there, a

(05:02):
lot of history there. Um, you know, a lot of
legacy there. Um. And I had a lot of teachers
that poured into me and invested in me and thought
I had potential and believed in me and nurtured me.
And so I would say I was around high school,
but even before that, I'm looking back on it. I mean,
you know, I'm the grandson of of a Baptist preacher.

(05:24):
Uh you know, one of my uncles is a Baptist preacher. Um.
You know, grew up in the church. I was the
president of the young Men's usher board at one point
in church, and so preaching has kind of been in
my is in my is in my bloodline. And so UM,
I guess the public speaking aspect um was always there. Uh,

(05:45):
the outspokenness, the opinionated part of it was always there.
But then from a professional standpoint, seeing people like Stewart Scott, um,
it was funny. I I I went into print journalism
when I got into college, so I really didn't work
towards being a broadcaster. It kind of happened organically, and uh,

(06:06):
you know, once I got there, I looked back and
even if I found an article recently, as a matter
of fact, from you know, the local paper, the Times
picking unit in New Orleans did an article on me,
is like a local scholar and it was like, what
do you want to be? And crazy enough, it's a
sports center anchor And I didn't realize that until I
became that but in but in the interim, I did

(06:27):
not work toward that. That was not a goal. But again,
seeing that representation on screen kind of planted that seed.
And now that's basically what I'm trying to be, uh,
is somebody that people can look to and not just
aspire to be like, but be better than. Well. I
don't want to say you're trying. You're doing that. Um,

(06:47):
And it's it's interesting because you said that's something that
you went down a while ago and look at you
now like it's come to fruition and many in more
ways than one in a sense. And so it's almost
like that subconscious north star like sometimes maybe not in
your case, but some of us that are listening, maybe
you know something deep in your gut, and you may
be a whisper to a loved one or to your mom,
Like I remember whispering someone. That's something that I won't

(07:10):
share here, but I remember whispering, um, something to my
mom that I really wanted as a little kid, but
I wouldn't tell anyone because I was like, what if
it never happens for me? So it's like that that
subconscious or deep conscious um want desire. That's almost a
bit scary because, like you said, for me growing up
again brother from another mother, my grandfather was God rest

(07:32):
his soul, a pastor, had a church many years. So
you grew up in the church. Your servant, you're doing,
you're passing the collection plate, you're you're doing communion like
all the things right, and so oh my God, and
our church has never had a c that is another
best don't know. I'm like, where are the thing? It

(07:56):
did not go to the a C. We didn't even
I would say it didn't go to the a C.
Because we had fans, and it didn't go for new
Bibles because the Bibles always was missing the front part
of it. But anyways, it's like we're on the Bible.
We had a fresh new Bibles. Yes, Nope, didn't have that,
but the word was there, so that's all we needed. Um.
But you know, one of the things that you say
is like all of these tools, while they were in

(08:17):
isolation of speaking, was a part of that. You know,
you had seen it represented in the church, or you
saw someone like you on TV that seemed wild, that
seems cool. I would love to if I could. Um,
you said something that I think really is going to
drive this. You know, as we as we think about
the shaping of our youth, that people believe in you
and they poured into you, I'd love to dig a

(08:38):
little deeper in that. And the reason is because we
forget about the the assists. We forget about those that
have really you know, like I said, handed up, you
see okay, clever, there we go. You might so, I mean,
you've done this before, so I'm thing that you see

(09:00):
it in me but you people that you have those
people that pour into you, and you have those people
that are truly that have been the assist in your life.
I love if you could share a moment or a
person to, you know, give a shout out of how
was one of those assists. How did it shape your
next step, whether that was to college right in Louisiana,
whether that was into the professional world. But what did

(09:22):
that look like in in the in the formative years
for you. Oh, we could be here all day with
just shouting out with the assists. I guess is what
Hall of Famers feel like when they got to give
us speech and they got to thank all their teammates
and all their coaches, Uh, you know, everybody that helped
them along the way. That that's me. I mean, I'm
definitely the product of that village, you know what I mean.

(09:42):
Going back to let's go back to church. So as
the pastor's grandchild, Uh, everybody had eyes on me. Uh
you know, I had to sit on the front row.
Everybody had license to check me if I was getting
out of pocket, you know what I'm saying. Uh, if
I was spending a little too much time in the
fellowship hall, goof and off, you know, held to a
certain standard. You know what you know what that's like.

(10:04):
So whether it was associate ministers, whether it was the
you know, Junior Women's Missionary Auxiliary Board, any anybody you
could think of at the church. Uh. You know, I
had a lot of aunts and uncles, um that either
to encourage me, that checked me, that looked out for me. Uh.

(10:28):
In the same went to you know, my school community. Um.
You know, whether it's my teachers, my principles. Uh. W D.
Harris comes to mind as somebody who really was the
person to to spark that journalism flame in me when
I was in high school. He was a mentor of mine. Um.
You know, I think about even some of my friends

(10:49):
parents going back to that village. You know. Recently a
friend of mine, uh names Kristen Kristen Jackson. I still
call it Kristin Leggin's That's how long I've known her.
Her mother recently passed away, and I was talking to
her and uh and and trying to offer words to
comfort as best I could about MS legends. Mama Fay,
Mama Fay picked me up and brought me to school,

(11:10):
you know, from New Orleans East, you know, uh, to
the done of thirty five across town. You know, people
that just little little things like that, you know, just
getting me to school on time every day when when
my mom and my stepdad or my dad before that couldn't. Um.
But then in my household you know, my mom, my dad, uh,
my stepdad, you know, my uncle's um again, my grandparents.

(11:34):
I lived with my grandparents for a long time. Uh.
And then once I got to be a professional. I
remember going to you know, the National Association of Black
Journalist convention in Phoenix. This is while I was in college,
and a sha Rod Blakely read my my newspaper clips.
It was like, dude, you know you got it. You know, Um,
when I went to the Boston Globe, my now co

(11:56):
host on brother from another as you mentioned, thank you
for the shout out. Michael Holly. He was my mentor
before he became my my brother and a groomsmen at
my wedding and the god father to my first child,
so on and so forth. So he poured into me. Um.
I mean, and it's continued. You know again, I did

(12:16):
not get here by myself. So you're you're spot on
your right on target. When you talk about that assist,
and even just bringing our conversation full circle, you know,
I'm able to do what I do and part of
the reason why you know, Sarah was top of mind.
I've been able to do what I've done and I'm
able to do what I do because of Sarah, because
of my kids, because of the support, uh any encouragement

(12:39):
that they give me every day. So, at the risk
of rambling, I'm gonna stop right there. I love this
because you know what it is is that they always
give credits at the end of the movie, right, you
always give the acknowledgements at the end of the book,
and sometimes it's a story. The story has to the
acknowledgement needs to be and the assist needs to be
woven into the story. I find a little bit more effective.

(13:01):
But one of the things that especially if if I
made just quickly interject, especially especially when you're not at
your peak, when you're not at the top, when you
when when when when you're going through it to get
to it, those people that are with you, whether it's family,
whether it's friends, whether it's colleagues, those you know, it's

(13:24):
like a great time to recognize them then versus on
the back end, when you've already gotten to the other
side or whatever it is you're going through. You know,
like I've been in something of a transition period for
a few years. I like to call it another another
opportunity to reinvent myself. Um, and starting with my family, um,
you know, my close friends, my inner circle. It's like

(13:47):
I'm not able just to sustain day to day if
not for them. So you're right, instead of doing it
on the back end, it's like, hey, I'm here, I
made it. I want to shout out all the people,
you know what I mean. It's like, no, like, hey,
before I make it, thank you for helping me just
to get to this point, you know. Um, so yeah,
you know you have to give them their flowers now,

(14:08):
as opposed to you know, when I'm receiving mind from
the masses, it's like, not, these are the people who
have to get here. Un let you know, let you
know what's up right now? Absolutely, um. Thinking of and
something you had said earlier in your response, in this
kind of concept of being poured into and having the
village and and again giving those of flowers, was there
a moment where you just felt like, you know, before

(14:30):
even like getting on mass TV before having a great platform,
or is there a moment where you you may be
filled up, you may feel like you know, I could
you know, the balls in my hand and I'm in
the court, I'm in the arena, I'm here. What should
I Was there a moment where you're like, I don't
know if I can do this. I don't know if
I can make it. Like you second guests your ability,

(14:52):
what was what was there? Or what was from? What
was next? I wouldn't say I second guess myself, um Sea,
I'm thinking because I want to be I want to
make sure I'm being honest with myself, let alone honest
with you, because it's easy for me to be Like, No,
I never I never doubted myself because for the most part,

(15:14):
I haven't, you know, like I can say, I've been
blessed to be very comfortable in my own skin from
a very young age. Um And I've always believed in
my abilities, and I've always believed, uh in the plan
that God had from my life and the blessings that
he had in the story from me. But it ain't

(15:35):
always easy to believe, if that makes sense, you know,
So I guess I would say who not on the
way up, because I mean, honestly, Alan, you know, like
so much happened from me so fast, you know, until
I think that was like I didn't deal with adversity

(15:56):
until way down the line, you know, I was. I mean,
I'm you know, I go to Loyola, New Orleans. I'm
working at the Boston Globe while I'm in college. Six
months after I graduate from college, I'm back in New
Orleans covering the Super Bowl for the Boston Globe. Three
years after I'm out of college, I'm at ESPN. I

(16:17):
was at ESPN B I was on ESPN by working
at ESPN. By excuse me if my years are are
off here, but I would say by my early thirties,
I had my own show. By my late thirties, I

(16:38):
was an anchor in the sports center. So so much
happened for me so fast, until I didn't. I was
a stranger to a real adversity, real professional adversity. Even
in the moments where I was impatient, even when I
was like, yo, when I'm gonna get my When'm gonna
get myne? I looked myne. I look back, and I'm like, dude,
you was tripping you know what I mean, Like, you know,
you was always ahead, you know what I mean? And

(17:00):
so I probably would say it wasn't until you know,
and then ten and in and in uh and then
June that I really started to kind of be like, damn,
like is this Do I have it? You know? Did

(17:21):
I ever have it? You know? Today's podcast is sponsored
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(17:41):
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this wave into the second quarter, because I think that
that lends itself to this. You know, obviously what you
do is very competit it. There can only be one you.
There can't be a rotating chair. Nobody's like, well, they're

(18:04):
gonna be fifty hosts doing this one show. There's one show.
There's only a few. There's only a limited amount of
time in life in a day on TV, and with
high ratings and high views? Um? I mean two parts.
What motivated you throughout this fast, quick pace life where
everything is coming at you? And then how have you
dealt in the last few years when you say, okay,

(18:24):
it got a little sticky, how have you dealt with
I wouldn't call it rejection, but some of that kind
of struggle, right, What was the motivation? And then how
did you look at that? How did you how are you?
And how have you um tapped into that struggle? Can
I can I answer the second part first because I
like that rejection, because I like to remix rejection into redirection,

(18:44):
you know, and that was part of that, was part
of that a word? Was that a word? And that's
a word. That's a word for the congregation. I firmly
believe we don't get rejected, we get redirected. Um. And
again it hasn't always and easy to believe that, UM.
But that's how I've you know, dealt with this transition period,

(19:08):
this inflection point, which before that became a buzzword in
you know the lexicon. I named my company inflection Point Entertainment,
UH when I founded it in because you know, nobody
tells you how long this inflection point is gonna last
like people think it's like just a quick second, you
know it just a quick That cross roads is quick

(19:30):
like now, man, this inflection point can be years before
it turns in a direction that it's supposed to, and
that you were hoping and dreaming that it would. Um. So,
believing that my steps were ordered, uh, and believing that
I'm right where I'm supposed to be again while challenging,

(19:50):
is what has sustained me, Um in terms of your
first question was what kind of gave me that confidence
as I was that meteoric rise atually? Just the work,
because I just know that there's nobody that's gonna outwork me.
There's nobody that's gonna out hustle me. Like as confident
as I am in my abilities, I know that there
are plenty of people who are capable of doing what

(20:14):
I do, not the way that I do it, not
necessarily at the level that I do it. But there
are plenty of talented, capable, driven, determined, brilliant people who
are more knowledgeable than I am, who are more articulate
than I am. You know who maybe here and there
might be better looking than I am. I That was
a kid that was with my wife because she got

(20:35):
watched us and roll our eyes. You know. But it's like,
you know, I just knew that nobody was doing what
I was doing, and nobody was paying the price that
I was paying. Nobody was doing in the dark what
I was doing, Nobody was. Nobody was with me in
the gym, you know, nobody, you know what I mean.

(20:56):
And so that's what gave me the confidence that not
only what I did, could I do it, but I
had earned it. Since this is something of a basketball
theme podcast and conversation Damian Lillard, who I'll show you know, well,
he said something he just stuck with. It, just stuck
with me, and it stuck with me, both for me

(21:18):
and for my son who I have the privilege to
be coaching his AU team, and for my players that
I coached. But it's really I think it's it's a
lesson for life. Like Damian literally made one of his
patented game winning shots. I think it was shock on
TNT asked him about what gives him the confidence in
those moments and I'm not gonna do this um the

(21:39):
justice that it deserves, so go find it on YouTube.
But he said the work that I put it in
the gym makes me believe that I've earned those results
that I deserve to make those shots. You know, like
I put in countless hours. I've I've I've worked past
the point of exhaustion, i perfected my craft. I've put

(22:01):
in the work to where that's just not luck that
that's what I deserve, those results. And so for me,
I always looked at it when I was, you know,
twenty two at the Boston Globe, when I was on ESPN,
when I was thirty something had my own show. I
never looked at it as I looked at any part
like thank you guy for these blessings. But I also

(22:22):
looked at it's like, oh, I ain't just get here
by accident. Like I earned it. I'm one of the
best out here what I do because I because I
work at it, you know, like I take the PEPs
and challenge with anybody doing what it is that I do.
And again, I got a lot of respect for other
people in this game. But I don't take a backseat
to anybody. And that's not arrogance. That's that word confidence
that stems from I have studied, I have home, I

(22:46):
have practiced, I have evaluated I have perfect perfect, not perfected,
because if it's perfected, and do something else. But I
just know that I've you know, sacrificed to get to
where I've gotten. So that's what gave me the confidence
to know that I belong. When the road got rocky
and and and the waves got choppy, um, it was

(23:09):
a foreign experience, you know, because it was the first
time that I wasn't able to work my way out
of it, if that makes sense. It was the first
time that I wasn't able to just grind my way out,
but the first time I wasn't able to just you know,
the first time I had to really consciously surrender control.
Because it's like it's one thing when you feel like
you know, God's God's in control of my life, you know,

(23:33):
you know, I I know, I know who's I know
who's who, Who's Who's whose hands I'm in, you know.
It's it's it's easy to say those things when things
are going well, because then there's another part of you,
especially as type of personalities. If I may call myself
a type of personality, I know you're certainly a type
of personality. The other part of it is is like, oh,
but this is me though, too, you know what I mean? Like, yeah,

(23:55):
Like I'm like I'm doing like I'm doing my thing,
like I'm you know, like I just said, like I'm
doing the world. I'm putting into work. I'm on my grind,
I'm seeing the results. Like what happens when those results
aren't as immediate? What happens with those results are nowhere
in sight? What happens when that tunnel and at light
at the end of the tunnel is non existent. What
happens when you know you're running your race and you

(24:18):
feel like you're getting past and you feel like you're
falling behind when at one point you were leading the pack.
What happens you know, when no matter what you do,
it feels like damn, like is this good enough? Am
I good enough? Let's let's dig into this because I
think while you were discussing and really opening my eyes up. Confidence.

(24:39):
Is this something that I get asked about a lot.
It's something that I don't naturally think that I do.
But I think you and I are very similar, which
is is kind of how we have fast friends, right.
I think it's because I respect that you're good in
your job. I know that you've worked hard for and
vice versa. There there's a level of like real recognized
real here, and we know it's like that, like you

(25:01):
weren't with me shooting in the gym, and you don't
even know how much time I was in the gym,
you know what I mean? Like I'm in the gym
while you sleep. I'm up at four thirty in the
morning while you sleep. And this is no shade. These
are just facts, right, And so I'm gonna quote because
I just was talking to c J, a mutual friend.
I call her a c J, but you have a
mutual friend, and she she had to check me for

(25:22):
a second because yeah, that's that's how that's actually I
got closed. Yeah, she had to check me for a
second because she's like, I keep hearing you say, you know,
in certain meetings when we talk about your opportunity, um
in our leadership meetings, you talked about your opportunity or
you discuss something that you have going on in not

(25:42):
comparison but relative to what else is on offered on
the table, and you use the word privilege, and she's like,
I need to check you because you're not privileged. This
is not because you your opportunity set isn't a privilege
nobody handed you that you work very hard for it.
And I had to and I was like wow, like
that hit that was like the one of the below
the belts that just like woke you up, and you're like, facts,

(26:03):
what am I doing? I want to make sure what
I'm saying about myself is honest and true, and it's
just it's not discrediting the hard work that I put
in every single day. And so I think there's a
some group of people, yes, that like, let's play it small.
Let's like it's humble brag, like you know, not me. No, no, no, no,
when the reality is, let's put away the humble brag.

(26:24):
No longer are the days of the humble brag. We're
here to celebrate and champion each other. And I have
to stand on that. And so I had. It's been
it's still new because it happened a couple of days ago,
but it's actually something I'm recognizing I do too often.
I play small when I tell you not to play small,
so that I'm not too big and overshadowing. And I
say all that to say, like the first part when
you're talking about confidence and you're talking about the fact

(26:46):
that you know, maybe I didn't deal with that second
guess thing. I didn't deal with like quote unquote rejection
or the redirect. I didn't have to redirect right away
in my career. But it was because I was so
committed to doing the world. And there are people out
there that are just like I'm with you. I hear you, Michael,
I hear you, Ali. I'm committed to doing the work.
But what I love and I want to dig in

(27:07):
a little bit more is that we can still do
the work. We can pound against a rock, we can
run as fast as we can, we cannot stop. But
there is a moment in life, moments for many of us,
I call it chaos, the unknown where you meet your match,
you work you you've given all you've got, you've strategized

(27:29):
to the point where you've written everything down, you've thought
about it, you've talked about it, you've prayed about it,
and nothing is happening. Nothing is working in your favor,
nothing is coming as not quote unquote easy, but as
more seamless. Nothing is clicking. And I think there's another
subgroup of people re maybe there's an intersection of those
two people but there's another group of people that's like,
that's where I am. I'm coming out of a few

(27:50):
years where things are challenging, and I'm being strategic, I'm
being thoughtful, I'm having all the conversations with all the
right people. I'm putting myself out there. I'm doing exactly
the work that you're talking about, and I'm not seeing
any of the fruits of that labor. I need to
know in these moments past, in the last few years,
in present, what is your strategy? What is you said

(28:13):
the words surrender? What does that look like? Literally? What
is a surrender look like? Because the word buzzwords? For me,
it's like redefined rebreak breaking down these like buzzwords. What
is the surrender looks like on a we just had
a conversation, a meeting, something that goes your way, something
got taken away from you that maybe you wanted, you
thought you deserved, you thought was your future. What does
surrender look like? What's the action behind that for you? Yeah, okay,

(28:39):
I'll give you Okay, I don't know what this exactly
answers the question, but I'll give you a recent example
because it just kind of popped in when you said
something that I wanted that I didn't get that I
thought I should get. So, first of all, it's it's
removing it. It's it's repenting and changing your mind and

(29:00):
a thing to paradigm from just that. And it's hard
when you're competitive. It's hard when you're confident not to
identify something and say I want that, that's for me,
I should get that, And then when you don't, it's
kind of hard not to feel like, well, was that

(29:20):
some kind of reflection on me? Is that some kind
of referendum on me? What what does that say about me?
And I'm a I'm missing something? Am I not as
dope as I thought I was? And my did I not?
Did I say the wrong thing? Did I not? It's
no different than relationships in many respects, where it's like

(29:41):
just because you don't hit it off with a certain person.
That is the most amazing cup I've ever seen. Hold on,
I need you to like that is wait what this
this is my For those that can't see and just listening, Um,
this is my Jlo cup. So you saw Jlo premiere?
She has this like the dazzle cup. I saw Jelo
a couple of months ago. She had a cup, and

(30:01):
I was like, well, if I'm going to hydrate, if
my hydration station is a part of my whole brand,
then it's got to be flies hell. And so this
is my this is it looks like it can be
like a purse at the same time, like, I mean,
this is why you're grafty, Like this is an innovation
right on the spot. No, it's a it's a very
it's a large cup. I fill it with water and

(30:22):
it's just like water, like it's holy water or something
there because you are you are speaking back, you were
talking about surrender. I'm I will sip this holy water
because I needed Oh my gosh, Sorry for the distraction,
but I was drink water. Be kind and bossa. Like

(30:43):
in a relationship, it's like if somebody, you know, if
somebody doesn't vibe with you. You know, people too often
there's a word rejection, internalizing and be like, oh, well,
something's wrong with me because he or she or they
didn't love me the way I love them. It's like, no,

(31:04):
not necessarily. Maybe you it just wasn't the right time,
or you were what they were looking for. Like when
it comes to you know, opportunity. A recent opportunity that
I I guess I'll flatter myself and say I was
up for um that I didn't get it. And this
is the growth because there was a time when I

(31:26):
may have been disappointed, but once I had the conversation
about this position, I gave it to God because I
had given my best, because I really I told my wife,
I was like, I can't be something else, you know,
like I can't be a former athlete. I mean, I

(31:47):
was a backup quarterback in high school. You know I
had my moments, but I can't be a former No,
you know, I can't be let's. I can't be white.
They looking for somebody white, I can't be that. If
they look at for a woman, I can't be that.
I can only be me right, And it's just like
no different than at a certain point somebody is going
to be looking specifically for me or somebody like me,

(32:12):
and the people that don't get it can't be mad
because they ain't me. Like, I can only be the
best me that I can be, and that has helped
me out. Again, I don't know if that answer your
exact question about what does my process actually looked like?
But it's just like realizing that. And again it's such
a cliche, but it's really hard to live by day

(32:33):
to day, especially when you're going through it is that
what's for me is for me and for nobody else.
It was not for me, ain't for me, you know.
And I can't get upset. I can't say that because
it sounds good and then get upset and don't practice that,
and then get upset when something doesn't go my way.
You know. It's like again, it's just believing that you're
right where you're supposed to be. I mean, there were

(32:53):
times in the last few years where I was just like,
like there was setbacks, you know, whether it was two
startups ago, you know, or or the start up before
this one, or even projects that I'm working on with
with Inflection Point Entertainment with this company. Is just like, man,

(33:14):
you know, like, why does it feel like I'm running
in place if not regressing at times? You know, where
all the opportunities that I think I should be getting where?
You know, why are things falling into place the way
I want them to? And my answer, in another aspect
of my process that has helped me is just that

(33:34):
is just enjoying the process. So the po for the
people that's doing the work but not getting the results.
You can't be in it for the results. You can't
be you can't do what you love with the results
in mind. If you're in the music and I'm not,
I'm not a musician, but you can't make music with
record sales and awards in mind. If you're an artist,

(33:57):
you can't paint, you can't draw, You can't and sculpt
with a commission in mind, or or having it, you know,
hanging in the museum in mind. Even in my low world,
I wouldn't consider what I do art, but let's just
say entertainment in general, or even sports. Going back with sports,
you gotta love the process more than you love the results.

(34:18):
You know, like results are results for a reason. They're
an extension of the process. There they should not be
the goal. It's it. Results are goal and goals are
two different things. It's like you can have a goal,
but you can't. But that goal cannot be your your why.
That can't be your reason. That can be that can
be your destination. Your why is because it is in

(34:40):
and of itself. You love what it is you do.
So for me, I love telling stories. For me, I
love having conversations like this. I love getting to know people.
I love getting to understand people's processes and what makes
them tick, what drives them. I love pulling things the
way you're doing with me right now. I love pulling

(35:01):
things out of people that they wouldn't ordinarily share in
and of itself. Whether that leads to me having my
own platform, my own show, my own network, and getting
paid millions of dollars to do it, those are the results.
But that can't be what gets you up in the morning,
because that's external validation. So if I'm doing this to

(35:21):
get followers on Twitter or Instagram, I'm doing this to
get famous, I'm in for a rude awakening because there's
gonna come a day when I'm not famous, you come
a day when nobody is checking from me. What is
it that gets me up in the morning? What is
it that fulfills me? So my process has been leaning
into just that. The process. There's a couple of things

(35:42):
I'm taking away because we talked, you know, we're talking
about like, what is the actualization of surrender looks like
to you? Because it isn't easy to do, and some
of the things that you for that you said in
terms of your process, I do like that the goals
goals are not your why. Understanding your why and knowing
that that's going to that's going to motivate you every day,
that's going to allow you or encourage you to Readjust

(36:03):
in those moments when things don't work out, when the
piece of the puzzle doesn't fit perfectly and you didn't
get what you thought you deserved and you didn't you're
not at the place where you think or thought you
should be at this age or this space in your life,
and your why I couldn't evolve, like my wife is
different now than maybe it was ten years ago. Like
my why now is to tell stories. Tell the stories

(36:27):
that need to be told by and for the people
that need to hear them and tell them. Kay um, my.
My mission is to amplify voices. It is to amplify stories.
It is to amplify perspectives. It is to lift up.
It is to pull people up and push them beyond

(36:49):
even what I've achieved. You know. It's like I just
I what drives me, even on the little show that
I do right now, even on brother from another right,
I don't get excited, no disrespect, uh to talk about
Kyrie Irvan. You know what I mean. I get excited

(37:09):
to find the people whose dream it is too being
broadcasting and share my platform with them, because like, because, like,
what do I get? Again? I don't mean to diminish
what it is I do. I don't mean to diminish
the fact that somebody pays me to do it. But
what do I get at this point by giving out

(37:30):
my one lebron hot take as opposed to, Hey, this
person is up and coming, or this person needs a shot,
this needs this person needs to get put on. Let
me use this platform, let me use whatever authority that
I have to amplify their voice. Likewise, when it comes
to my company, this is a story that needs to
be told. How can I tell this story? This is

(37:51):
a person who needs to be spotlighted? How can I
How can I use the credibility and the resources and
the relationships that I do it over the years to
uplift this person and put them in position to succeed.
I just again, I'm not It's not to say that
I'm satisfied, But what drives me is not another check.

(38:12):
And I don't mean to sound mag I'm not trying
to sound magnanimous in any way. It's just I think
when you've when you've achieved a lot of those personal
goals early, and then watch the opposite happen when you've
been through the valley, when you've been to the mountaintop
and then been through the valley your perspective on the

(38:33):
way back up changes. Oh my gosh, you get it. Yes,
it's you. There's a level set that occurs, and it
and and it needs to happen. And so I think
I've been there, done that, got the T shirt, like
like you know what I mean. So I'm like, Okay,
I don't need that anymore, but there are other people
who do want that, so let me help them get that. Meanwhile,
what is it? What? What do I want? And that's

(38:56):
what drives me every day? Is my mission, my calling,
my purpose UH to amplify through storytelling, to uplift and
empower through storytelling, to inform, enlighten, and where I can't
entertain through storytelling, that's my purpose And let the results
be what they may. How can I get better at that?

(39:17):
Every day? Sorry? I keep telling you all, but you
got me thinking, you got you got my wheels? No,
you know, do not apologize. This is I'm literally looking down,
I'm taking notes. I have a bunch of notes here,
um and I will share before we get into have
time some of the notes. Because when I was asking
you about surrender, I also you sparked, you know that curiosity,
and me of like, well, how do I surrender? And
I was like, the first thing that came into mind
for me is I do vent. I will like unleash

(39:40):
the draft. Okay, oh my god. That makes me feel
better because sometimes I feel guilty for venting. No, And
you know, I was talking to my husband Andrew yesterday
and he was he said he and he says, it's often,
but it's a good reminder that when you're venting or
you feel hurt, offended, upset about something you even when
you feel like you're on the right side, right and

(40:00):
it's something happened that's in just he's like, you can't help,
but how you feel. So feel how you feel, and
let's work through that. And then you get to a
point where you can now say, Okay, how do I
move forward or how do I go through this? Or
what are my next steps? And so oftentimes I think
we we feel bad about the fact that we feel
bad or that we're angry, that we're upsetting. You're like,
I need to be I tell myself, I can say that,

(40:22):
you know it before I surrender or as I'm surrendering,
I tell myself. Sometimes I beat myself up and I'm like,
you know, you should be happy for that person that
they got that Like, who who are you to say
that if it was for you, and you started using
these cliches, if it was for you, you would have
gotten you know, you should just you should be grateful
for what you have. You should And I'm shooting all
over myself. I'm just like, you should do this, and

(40:44):
then I'm feeling bad about the fact that I feel bad.
And the reality is I'm recognizing that as I in
the midst of surrendering, the action, the verb of surrender
surrendering is that I need to vent. I need to
be me. Like you said, they're gonna be looking for
me one day, but I need to can needed to
be me. I need to feel how I feel. I
need to tell somebody somebody got to and hopefully a

(41:05):
safe person, not like you know, not but not just
a safe person. I know you know church folks say, well,
I can't complain. God ain't said you can't complain. He
just said you gotta trust. He said you couldn't complain.
He said you couldn't. He said you have to enjoy
it all the time. He just said, Yo, just trust me. Okay,
I get it. I get you frustrated. I get you

(41:25):
where you want to be when you want to be there,
and how and how and in the luxury way of
which you want to arrive there. But he needs tripping
because you're frustrated. So but but even still, the reason
why what you say spoke to me is because it's like,
you know, I look at everything that I've received and
everything that I've experienced, and I look at my family,

(41:47):
and I look at what I am, and when I
have to be grateful for every day, that's when I
feel guilty for venting, because I feel like I think
the balance is, don't let the venting bleed over into
the gratitude or let it. Don't don't let it. Don't
don't be more more frustrated and disappointed than you are grateful.
It's like there's room preventing, this room for disappointment. But

(42:10):
it's like you gotta quickly transition back into that, you know,
gratitude space. So that's what that's where I feel guilty
is when I'm just like, you know, even minimizing what
it is and I'm doing because i mean, let's face it,
i mean, who doesn't, especially nowadays you know social media.
Who doesn't get caught up in the comparison game. It's
just kind of hard to avoid it altogether unless you're

(42:34):
like in a rock under a rocket closet. You know,
I'm right there. I'm right there and feeling the close
you come out, but I'm right there with you want
everything like you know, I mean, I mean, you don't
like no unless you're like completely tuned out to the
rest of them. Yes, you're just like I'm not on
social Yeah, it's like it's hard not to look and
be like, damn, what am I doing? You know, why

(42:58):
haven't I done this? Why? What? What? What? What I'm slacking?
You know? So that's that's that's what I mean by
absolutely comparison they say is a thief of joy, and
it absolutely is um But the reality is it goes
back to kind of like a burnet brown thing where
it's like and I'm pretty sure this is her or
this is some kind of something that I've derived from
what I've read from her. Like a deduction that I
had is that you know, first thought not best thought, right,

(43:20):
that your first thought is maybe going to be comparing yourself.
Your first thought is like I should have gotten that,
or like I'm angry, I'm upset, I'm impatient. But your
second thought and third thought you are in control of.
You can say you can take back that narrative, and
it brings me in, which is why I was looking
down on that phone. For those that don't know that
aren't watching the YouTube video, if you're just listening, I
was looking down while Michael was talking because I read

(43:42):
this book that was highly recommended by a friend of mine,
Daniel scott Um, and it's called The Energy Bus, and
it's by John Gorden's The Energy Bus, which is like
now my new plant in life, like I'm here for it.
And one of the things that the discussed is like
there is a there's also another one like the no
complaining rule, right, and it's talks about how energy is contagious.

(44:02):
So obviously when you're in that space of venting, just
to know that's why I say a safe space, just
know that if you bring that in certain spaces, it's negative.
So your energy is contagious. But also like there's a
rule on the flip side of that of like no complaining,
not that you can't complain, it's just that once you've complained,
let's look at the upside, let's move forward. And and
this concept of surrender, I think those things need to coexist.

(44:25):
And the reason I don't think it's at this or
that more of an and it's because I when I surrender,
I need to vent. I need to tell myself there
is negative energy that is pent up inside of me
that I need to get out. I need to get
the complaints out. And then I need to bridge that
gap to say, Okay, now that I'm done there, I'm
not I'm not going to continue to complain. I'm not
going to continue to wear that negative energy. I will

(44:45):
look at to your point, but what am I grateful for?
Not that the gratitude of the things that I have.
A little ventilation, air it out a little, yet there
you go, that sounds better, air it out, um, you know.
And again it's that it's not because I have these
things then I should act a different way, or I
should this shouldn't make me upset because I have these

(45:06):
things that makes me happy and I can get upset,
but just no, I won't stay there. And I think
that is the most important thing when we think of
this journey and we talked, you know, we talked about
your journey in the first quarter of like how did
you know this was available to you? Taking it into
the second quarter of like when did you when did it? When?
When did it hit the fan? And you're just like,
and how did you deal with it? And I think
what we're learning before we get into like this little

(45:27):
quick um halftime is that you can you can it's this,
and that you can be grateful, you can be on
that fast track, you can hit the rocks, get and
you can feel upset, angry and grateful and know that
you can move on. And I think that that juxtaposition
comes back to everything that I will say that one
of the biggest things that you preaching, that you've said

(45:48):
to me too in person when we started having conversations,
is that when they're looking for me, I'm gonna be me.
That is you, and that is powerful because you're not
just this and you're not just that. You're all encompassing
of feeling all of these things and sometimes hell at once.
You know what I mean, And that's what makes these
conversations so powerful. So wait on that note, I want

(46:10):
to I want to. I want to jump into some quick,
very short, um rabbit fire and then I have a
question for you. I'm curious about the question at the
end of this halftime entertainment. So whatever comes to my
super easy, super quick, you know what I mean, super short?
All right, So I call it fire wrapp it because
this is just when I've hosted at the NETS games.
I would like to say that I get all the

(46:31):
words right, but I do not. And while this has
been told to me hundreds of time, that is called
rapid fire. When I introduced it at the next game,
I'm like, hey, I'm here with Michael. He's a Brooklyn
Nets fan, and we're gonna do some fat fire wrap
and I don't know why, but that is the thing.
So for this fire wrappit. Okay, basketball or football, it's

(46:55):
fire rapp it, Michael, I'm sorry. Football, that's hard. Football
it is. That's the point TV or podcast, TV New
Orleans or New York, New Orleans, hosting or being interviewed
hosting co hosting our solo hosting. I'm a solo act now.

(47:19):
I'm not realizing that I'm a solo by a rapid um. Okay,
I would say, very quickly, you're one of your funniest
moments on camera? Go oh god, there's so many to
choose from. Um my funniest moments on camera. I'm sorry,
this is not very rapid. Uh, It's okay. I mean

(47:44):
it's twenty years, twenty some years. There's a lot of
it's a lot of funny. More. I like to have
fun a lot of funny I share my Mine that's
most shared is that I'll put my pants on backwards
on camera, like when I come out for class. I
would say, like, more times than i'd like. When I
teach a class, my pants are on awkwards more times
than i'd like. Funny moments, Okay, just quick quick clarification.

(48:06):
Could it be funny to other people, not necessarily to you?
So you giving your background, you'll appreciate this. I would
say my funniest moments for people that have followed me
is any time I'm calling on camera dancing. It is
not a pretty sight. I cannot dance at all. There

(48:26):
are not many things that I do do worse than dance. Um,
but but I do believe I am a moment caeesar.
I seized the moment. Um. There's an infamous video of
me on stage at a party, uh dancing to bell
bill with bell bib devote not to with bell bib
devote to poison. And I just feel like, even though

(48:50):
it was awful, I feel like I deserve credit for
season the moment because they called me on stage and I,
what am I gonna do? Not go? And so I
went up to get my thing. I went up and
I did my things. So I would say my funniest
moments on camera, uh, not necessarily in the studio. Anytime
I've ever been caught dancing is uh seems to bring

(49:11):
a lot of joy. One of my newest favorite proverbs
that I've been saying lately that I heard um is
they'll call you a fool whether you dance or not.
So Michael's dance the honorable mention, I donible to mention.
I'm really proud of some of the sketches that we did, um,
you know on my old show His and Hers. I mean,

(49:34):
like you could have told me when I was growing
up that we'd have an opportunity this is objectively funny, Uh,
that we would never I would have an opportunity to
basically play Eddie Murphy on television. So when it was
coming to America, whether it was Anchorman, whether it was
Step Brothers, whether it was Boys in the Hood, like
we did some we did some black ship. Excuse my language,

(49:56):
it is we did some awesome stuff back in the day. Uh.
And it was proud of that we did some classic material,
so that I would I would say that when in
terms of objectively funny, funny stuff, I love that. Um.
And then last one, as we round out this halftime entertainment,
you can only pick one. Although Angela, you picked like
a bunch and I was down for every single one

(50:16):
she picked. But what is your one pet peeve? Like
irks the nerve? You know how your you know how
your parents who say you're gonna get on my last nerve,
it's the it's the thing that gets on your last nerve.
Even though I used to tell my parents or I
wouldn't say it out loud because I mean, I wanted life, right,
I wanted to live. I chose life. Um, I'd like
if you only have one nerve left. You should go

(50:37):
to the doctor. That's what I thought when they said
that to me. But you know, I digress. I got
I got three kids, so it's hard to narrow right
now to two teenagers. Um. But honestly, I would say,
and this, this is not like a Neil's on the
chalkboard type thing, or it's like, oh, I hate it
when people are late, or I you know, I hate

(51:00):
when dishes are in the sink. No, no, this is
more of a macro issue for me, and this kind
of speaks to our entire conversation. I hate underachievement. I
hate the idea of me not maximize my potential, and
so I hate when I see people, or worse, when
I'm surrounded by people mm hm who do not who

(51:26):
aren't all in all the time. I only know one speed,
and that's a hundred miles an. I only know one
way to play, and that's hard. Every single snap, every
single play, every single minute, every single segment, every single show.
I only every single project. I know one way to play,
and when people mail it in, that's when I get

(51:47):
to be a real a hole. I am. The people
have considered me difficult at various stages, and there's a whole.
That's a whole another conversation we could unpack that that's
that's that's societal, that it's cultural, that's you know, there's
a lot to that idea of being difficult, which I'm
sure you can relate to. But the reason I've been

(52:09):
difficult is because I'm demanding and I don't demand anything
of anybody around me that I don't demanding myself. And
all I demand is that you put forth your best effort,
especially with me on the same team, because if you
ain't pulling your weight that he that means one or
two things. Either I got to pull your weight for you,
we're getting dragged down, and there's absolutely nothing worse than

(52:29):
being held back. So that is my pet peeve ALI
love is people who don't give everything, because if you're
gonna have act, don't do it. That's the way I coach,
that's the way. That's what I tell my son, Like
I don't need you to make the NBA. I don't
need you to be great at basketball. I need you
to be the best that you can be. I don't

(52:50):
yell at him for listening shots. I don't yell at
I yelled at him when he running and he stopped.
That is not an issue now he knows the one
thing I demand is maximum effort. I think my my
love language. I like that because I think conversely, like
my love language is thoughtfulness and preparation, like being prepared,
showing up if you ask for my time, just be prepared,

(53:12):
be thoughtful, and like, I think that that go co
exists with like that's how you continue to raise the bar.
But let's go ahead and step into this third quarter
because there's some things that let's you know in the
first quarter, in the second quarter that you said that
I want to kind of bring full circle and it's
one identifying this format. By the way, thank you, and
so did c J. She thought this was genius. She

(53:33):
was I told her about my podcast and she was like, girl,
like I got. She gave me so many ideas. She
also told me to give you a foul, but I
wrote it down because I was like, maybe I'll give
him a foul because he jumped forward to the fourth
quarter when I asked him to question that stayed in
the second quarter, but then I couldn't tie it. So
c J, don't hate me, but you had a great
quick sidebar c J. I guess she goes about c

(53:54):
J in your world. She should read to Johnson to me, yes,
Johnson in your work. But do you know she She's like,
you're talking about shoutous. Can I can I go back
to the first quarter? Can I give you a foul
for that? Go for it assists assists my career arc
and trajectory change thanks to ce J. C J. Green

(54:16):
lit and supervised his and her her podcast. Yes, so
listen to that woman. Principle is listen to the women.
Listen to that woman, so she knows what she's talking about.
I am I am here for that. I am here
for that. And it's amazing because again, I'm so I'm

(54:37):
so blessed. I'm so fortunate to have this network of
folks like you like her, that I can tap into,
that I can just lean on and ask for help.
And I told her that I was interviewing you, and
she was like, let's go through it, and she she
she was so at some point, maybe I'll give you
a foul, but like, not right now, because I feel
like we're on our role, we're feel like we're winning,
we're ahead. In the third quarter. I do want to

(54:58):
focus on some of the things that was brought up.
And it's this kind of this kind of how to
when we talked about surrender, when we talk about you
know they will be looking for you. It's like, in
this moment where your life has been on speed, You've
gotten a lot of things you wanted at an early age.
Think the ball was rolling in a in a in
a in a great direction. It was redirected at one
time at a couple of times, right, and you're able
to pivot. What does And I'm gonna I'm gonna make this.

(55:21):
I'm gonna give you a little caveat like not no
shade to like the family life, love it. But for
those people that are tuning in for their career, because
your career is is a great roadmap and people sincerely
I mean are trying to mimic it when it comes
to your professional life. What is your metric for success?

(55:42):
I often say like your structure plus strategy equal success. Right,
structure is I'm gonna do this, this at this time
and this and that's gonna lend itself and that's going
to be the roadmap. Your strategy is how you apply it.
Strategy equal success, This is something I've been saying for
many years. Um. As you know, I I developed myself
into I don't want to say that I'm a motivational speaker,

(56:03):
but something that lends I lend myself to that intersection
of professional and personal life that we often neglect. We
don't live in our intersectionality enough. And I think this
is imperative because this is applicable to your personal your
professional life structure. A strategy equal success. You have a
routine in the morning, you do the routine. That's your strategy, strategy.
I'm gonna do this at least five times a week.
It equals accomplishment. I made it, I done, I hit success. Right.

(56:26):
That's a metric for success right there. Um. And so
when you think about your professional life, how do you
how have you you can take this any way that
feels good for you? What is or how have you
established a metric for success for yourself? And what does
that look like? If you don't mind giving us insight, Man,
that's deep because it's changed over the years, you know.

(56:52):
And and I would say how, I'll tell you how
I define it then, how I define it then, and
how I define it now. Like most love a good
sale two for one. Give it to me. Like most
people you know, growing up um in the you know,
I was born in nine and growing up in the
eighties and the nineties and growing up in New Orleans.
The way I grew up, you know, it was going

(57:16):
to college and getting a good job. H Okay. Once
I fell into journalism, you know, it was when I
was at the Boston Globe. It was like, Okay, I
want to be the Patriots beat writer. That happened in
a year. Okay, you know, I want to be the
national reporter, the national NFL reporter. Another paper offer me

(57:37):
the job, and the blow couldn't match it, but they,
you know, maybe the beat writer, and they put me
on around the horn. So I'm on ESPN at four
years old while working in the Boston Globe. ESPN doubles
my salary and hires me at something like that, and

(57:58):
I'm a national NFL reporter. Um, a black national NFL reporter,
I mean um. And I'm kicking ass and taking names

(58:19):
and very quickly. So if you see what I'm kind
of establishing here is like again, just I'm moving, you know,
I'm on the rise and like meteoric right, wonder King,
whatever you want to call it. Right, It's like, I
want my own show, and I'd be successful if I
had my own show. M M. So I get my

(58:39):
own show, Well, I will be more successful if we
were on ESPN and not ESPN two. I'd be more
successful if I got if I made more money, you know.
And so I get all of that. I get not
not just my own show, but the show. I get
paid out the wild Zoo, you know what I mean.

(59:02):
You know, I get this big contract, I get this
big staff, this cavernous studio. I'm on billboards, I'm on commercials.
It's like doing it and it was the most miserable
experience in my life sports um. And so then I'm

(59:23):
kind of in this professional purgatory just trying to like
figure out what happened around and eighteen, just like what
the heck just happened. It's the first time that the
sailing was not, relatively speaking, smooth. And so it's like, well,
what I want to do, all right? I want to
be an executive and I want to be a content

(59:43):
creator and a storyteller and a producer. It's like, well,
I go to a startup and that startup dissolves in
seven weeks after I got there. Oh ship, but I
do now. I just I just left money on the
table at ESPN to get my freedom, and now to
place that I went to, Like where do I can't
go back? Like, excuse me, I was wondering, you know,

(01:00:07):
I can't go back where I left. So it was like,
what am I do. It's like, well, I form another
startup off of that startup, and then very early on
I'm like, this ain't for me either. Mm hmm. All right,
I guess I'll give this some time and give it
a year. Okay, I gotta, I gotta this ain't for me.

(01:00:29):
I gotta go Damn. What do I do now? All right?
You'll want me to do a talk show at the
intersection of sports and culture, kind of like the one
I was doing before it was popular. All Right, I
guess it's not really what I want to do, but okay,
I guess I'll do it. It's something it's with my

(01:00:49):
you know, one of my best friends. My brother might
as well do it. This ain't really what I want
to do. It's ain't really where I want to be
right now, But okay, I guess there's worse things to
be doing. Sorry for the long answer, but my point
is it's like I've realized that, like, if you define
success based on external standards and expectations, if you define

(01:01:13):
success based on what the world has convinced you, success
looks like. So in my profession, it's having your own show,
it's being on ESPN, it's being on national television, it's
having your own television show. It's making a lot of money.
If you define success based off of those barometers, you

(01:01:36):
are in for a route awakening, because that will not
last more more times and not sometimes. Some of us
are fortunate that it will last forever. It may not
last forever, it may change suddenly. How then do you
defend against feeling like you're a failure. If how you

(01:01:59):
define success, it's taken away from me. So for me long,
I'm sorry, I'm long with it. The way that I
define success now and the way that I've come to
define successes for us phrase it that way is did
I inspire somebody? Did I enlighten somebody? Did I inform somebody?

(01:02:26):
Did I empower somebody? Did I dish out and assist? Today?
And for me it's day today, today, and last but
not least, did I challenge myself today, did I did
I stretch myself? Did I do something out of my
comfort zone? So for me, and honestly, yeah, I'm talking

(01:02:52):
to somebody who I know does not approach things this way,
so you know, but I'm just I've never I've never
been the type to like write down a five year plan,
obtain your plan. I'm not a vision board type. My
wife is. I'm not a vision board type. Just I
kind of like, I put my head down, I grind,
I keep digging, and I let the work speak for

(01:03:12):
itself and you know, let the chips fall away and
they have anyone to phrase it. So for me, success
is more intangible. If I could kind of land this
plane and wrap this up being it's more intangible than
it once was. Once upon a time, it was tangible.
Now for me, it's more of a feeling. It's do

(01:03:32):
I feel fulfilled? Like? For me, success this past weekend
was coaching my son's AU team. Real talk, I would
be my full time job. If if I could do
that full time, I would coach and I ain't excess
and those guys, I'm more of a motivator, if I
may say so. But the success was like, look, I
was able to spend Father's Day with a group of

(01:03:55):
kids and offer correction, offer guidance for motivation. Today after
I finished doing Brother from Another with a friend of mine,
another friend of mine, not Michael, I'm gonna go around
the corner and I'm going to coach practice. That's success
to me because I'm happy, Like I'm happy, I'm fulfilled,

(01:04:18):
My kids are happy. My kids are provided for, you know,
thanks to the work that I put in. So it's
like because if I let, if I let you know,
the amount of viewers or views or followers or my
bank account dictate my success, and I can grant it.

(01:04:38):
Kind of easy. I'm gonna use this privilege word. It's
kind of easy for me to say my bank account
doesn't determine my success. Not that I can't stand and
make more money. Hello, if you're listening, I welcome more check.
My point is I can I am privileged and fortunate
enough to be able to look at success through through
an intangible lens because UM comfortable for the most part,

(01:05:03):
not set for life, but comfortable for the most part.
So for me, success is much more about who I'm helping,
what am I doing for the culture. What am I
doing too? You know, as best I can close the
gap between society's problems and solutions. You know that's so
sorry for the long answer, No, no, no, but but
it's an evolution for me. I've evolved into this place

(01:05:25):
of how have your success? I don't think that you.
I don't know, apology necessary. I think the point of
people tuning into a podcast like this is to learn
something to take away first, to look back at someone's
journey so they have insight on how they became to
be and what they're doing now. And that like we're
gonna step into the fourth quarter, um before the game
is over, because I think you said your impact on

(01:05:47):
you want to be impactful. You want to be intentional
and impactful on your community, whether it's one person or many.
And that's fulfillment, right, That fulfills you. I wrote down
success is what fulfills you? Is what you say, and
so I want to unpack that in this fourth quarterback
talking about what you mentioned and what you've got going
on now in the buzzword. But you're reclaiming inflection right,

(01:06:08):
this inflection point media. You've created a multimedia company and
it's something that you said well, I tried this. I
tried that. I tried this, and now I know what
I want to do. I know what success looks like,
and more importantly, I know what it feels like. And
so I'd love for us to kind of in tear
of understanding why creating an inflection point media, um, talk

(01:06:32):
about the name a little bit more. I know you
said it. It's not just one, it's not an abbreviated
amount of time. It could last for a long time,
So I assume there's there's a connection there, um, And
then like, where do you hope that it will go? Yeah?
I mean, you know, I always knew that I didn't
want to just be a talking head forever. Somebody told
me a long time ago if you were talent, if
you're always talent, you could always be replaced. And I

(01:06:54):
always feel like I had an entrepreneurial spirit, you know,
when it comes to I knew that I wanted to
I had a major in business. I didn't study business,
but I knew I wanted my own business. I wanted
to be self employed. I wanted to employ others. I
did not want to be forever at the mercy of
somebody else's vision or lack thereof. I did not want

(01:07:17):
to be at the mercy of the revolving door of
the C suites making decisions based off of their preference,
you know, their agenda, and I'm just upon in their game.
I always wanted to tell stories that I wanted to
tell the way I wanted to tell them, and on
and on a foundational level. That's all inflection point entertainment

(01:07:37):
is it is. We are platform, genre, um and subject agnostic,
which is a fancy way of saying like, if it's
a story I want to tell, I'll tell it, so
right now. Our development slate has you know, feature films
around within you know, influential figures in sports, the Supreme Court, um,

(01:08:04):
you know, gender, sexual assault, race, you know all the
different issues, uh, you know within society and and not
all heavy. Some of it is you know, literally fun
and games. I'm doing documentaries, I'm doing film, I'm doing podcasts,

(01:08:24):
you know, and honestly some of some of my day
it's also to another part of my process is just
like appreciating like the small winds, Like every wind does
not have to be big, and I do not despise
the day of small beginnings. Inflection point is two years old,
just about and it still feels like we're on the

(01:08:44):
ground floor. But yet day by data is just little
things that might happen, even if it's the completion of
a deck of a pitch deck that makes me like, yeah,
this is what I'm supposed to be doing. Or it
could just be a meeting and that meeting may or
may not lead to a relationship, a partnership, a strategic partnership,
you know, a sponsorship, a deal. But still like the

(01:09:10):
idea of like meeting and ideating and pitching and developing
and just I love it, you know, I love networking,
you know. So, um, yeah, what was your what was
your original question? I know you're telling us about it.
I'm saying like, you know what is what it is,

(01:09:31):
but that's what it is, and what you know what
you're doing saying this are the things that you're agnostic about.
Some of these stories I want to tell the stories
that people need to hear and and giving people the
opportunity that needed to I think also one of the things,
one of the things that you say, um, as we
closed to the game, is that inflection point media is
that you you're reclaiming agency, right, You're taking back your

(01:09:52):
power if talent can be replaced along the days where
you are the talent, Now you're the person behind the lens.
Now you're the person to have a at the table
that's owning the table to say, let's bring creators in
facilitating that conversation, facilitating what content creation looks like for
the next generation. And the story is being told and
the un stories that need to be told. So I
think that you've done, I thank you well, suff you

(01:10:18):
just take it. But when you're so close to something,
is like when I describe Love Squad, I say, I'll
do Love Squad to my dying days, because even if
it never becomes a huge company, it's a small company
that I'm the CEO and founder of. We do women
apartment events virtually in real life. And I'm like, the
reason it fulfills me so much because it comes back
to what you said, the metric of success is making
sure that you know. I find what fulfills me is
that ability to give back through conversation. I think the

(01:10:41):
catalyst for changes conversation and it's through these conversations, through
the game of life that we just play, that we
just went through, that we just talked about that's going
to change someone's life. There's something here that's gonna get
someone to think, that's gonna get someone to pivot, that's
gonna get someone to have a feeling about something, that's
gonna invoke some evokes something. And I think that is
that's what magic is like when we talk about magic,

(01:11:01):
you know, that's what the magic is. It's the kid
you just think to think in the way you've never
done before. Right, that's what magic said for the game,
you said we were closing the game. I do have
a question for you, if I may. It's hard. I mean,
I just you know you do this, do you do
this for a living? So, but it's hard for me
to turn it off. It's hard for me to turn
it off because I got so many questions on them. So,
you know, curious about you because it's like and I

(01:11:23):
saw it at Harvard, you know, when we spent four
days together and it felt like, hey, it felt like
we've known each other forever. Be it felt like we
had spent you know, four months together. After that, you
know that four days, I felt like, you know, I'm
violent with her, I know her, but you have so
many people and my wife as an example of so
many people that you're a part of their lives. And

(01:11:44):
maybe you've been asking you know, some some version of
this question before, But you're a part of their lives
in a way that I can't even relate to, Like, yeah,
maybe your routine is, you know, while you're at the gym,
or while you're driving, or or you're you know, when
you get home from school or from work, you're watching me.
But literally you are their gym. You are part of
people's lifestyle, right, And so there's a connection there. But

(01:12:08):
with that connection is also this expectation, you know, because
people when they get on that bike, they're not in
some part part escape but part inspiration. They're looking to you.
So you almost have to be like strong for everybody
on the other side of the screen. And and then
I saw it at Harvard where it's like everybody is

(01:12:29):
like coming to you and gravitating towards you. It's like
it's almost like you're not allowed to have a bad day.
It's like you're not allowed to be off your game,
You're not allowed to just be just be Ali. It's
like you gotta be Ali love I feel, I mean,
from outside looking at it, I imagine that that can
get heavy sometimes. So that's not a question that's a
lot of commentary. I'll get straight to the question. It's like,

(01:12:52):
what do you do to help bear that burden of
being ali love keeping it to the game of sports.
Billy Jane King, who my mild obsession that I have
is her life and her story and what she continues
to do around the community um and being inclusive, and
is that pressure is a privilege And so I know

(01:13:16):
that I it comes back to, yes, I am grateful
for where I am. I've worked very hard to be here.
There's a combination of not luck, but being blessed and
being anointed with my heart work that's coupled into positioning
me to be where I am. That also lends itself
to Yes, pressure as a privilege, and I'm privileged to
have this pressure. But it's not without the fact that
I do have many bad days that I do wake

(01:13:39):
up and say I don't know how I'm going to write.
And in terms of how I handle it, I think
that I'm also continuing through commerce. Sincerely, I know I
keep saying through conversation like these very excited. As you
can see, You're definitely one of my longest conversations. I'm
very grateful for this because because she wants it to
be shorter. Yeah, she does not long podcast. No, no,

(01:14:01):
I know, okay, okay, we might have to with this
into okay, but no, no, no. But the reality is
that in terms of handling it, dealing with it, it's
through conversation. It's through understanding how someone else is handling
their lives, because I too can get caught up in
Michael's life is perfect. He's been on this TV. He's

(01:14:22):
done everything that I wish I could have done or
that I wish I could do. And it's always I romanticize.
I make everything more of a fantasy out on the outside.
I'm sure they're good, their life is great. They look
like this, they got this and look it and pour me.
And so what I do is one you know, I
do a lot of things, but one of the things
I really do is I put myself in positions and

(01:14:43):
I surround myself with people um to have conversations, to
learn about their lives, to ask more questions. And I'm
being asked. And the reason for that is because I
think when I learn about people, it gives me a
wide aperture to what life is really like. It gets
me out of my own way. It gets me out
of my own Is that what inspired you to do
this podcast? Yeah, I've been wanting to do this for

(01:15:03):
a long time. I've been working with the Nets for
nine seasons and I've been wanting more in the organization,
and so I created a podcast because I wanted to
be a podcaster. This is my podcast. And so what
I end up doing is I pitched it to the GNATS.
I was like, do you want to do this? I
have this really cool idea, and so this is a
little bit of a collaboration going on, but for the
most part, it is this. It's that I selfishly. I mean,

(01:15:24):
I get to spend time with you and people like you,
and I get insight for free that otherwise I have
to pay for. Access to information is expensive, Honey. If
you went to Harvard, even for the business school, you
already know. We know it's expensive. Access to information into
and two people is expensive. And so the fact that
I get to do this for free, at a load
of no cost is what I want to afford every
other person the access too. And that's why I do this,

(01:15:48):
and that's how I take care of myself. That's how
I wear that burden and continue, you know, again, not
without bad days, but still that's this is what this
is my pick me up. This is my feel good ride.
You take my feel good rides. This is my feel
good ride. So I like it. On that note, just
is gonna be mad. But I think this was a
very successful podcast for us, and I'm very proud of us.
I really appreciate your time. This was a very in

(01:16:08):
depth conversation. I hope those of you that are listening
that you really take something away and pact not only digested,
have that internal dialogue, but more importantly, have an external
dialogue because it's always that ability to pay it forward,
to pass it on, to share information. That's wealth in
itself and it's all through you. Michael Smith. Thank you
so much. I appreciate you taking a court size seat
with me. I am honored, I am grateful. UM, this

(01:16:30):
has been so much fun. And I am not blown
and smoke. You're really good at this, UM. You know
like you have a you have a gift for making
people feel comfortable. UM, and you know this is uh
You're you're doing just you're supposed to be doing. And
I'm I'm happy to have done it with you. This
is this has been a thrill. I'm so glad to

(01:16:52):
have met you, so glad to be connected to you.
And uh yeah, I hope, I hope the audience got
some moderus as well. Thank you for I'm sure, and
let's do it again. We're gonna, we're gonna, We're definitely
gonna do it again. Let's just ask we're gonna do this.
We'll do it shorter. I don't think we have any restrictions.
I'm taking restrictions off. I'm saying, I told you I
preach his grandson. This is this is great. I am

(01:17:15):
this is great. But either way, all right, everyone, thank
you so much for tuning into court Tich conversation from
Ali Love Michael Smith. What a tax