May 7, 2025 • 37 mins
How do you build a world-class women's football league on one of the sports' biggest stages? Zarah Al-Kudcy, Chief Revenue Officer at the Women's Professional League Limited (the organization behind England’s top women’s football leagues), joins Courtside to discuss how the WPLL is redefining how to build and expand the commercial opportunities for some of the most storied teams in football history. She and Laura dive into the WPLL’s goals, the power of historic club brands like Arsenal and Chelsea, growing a global fanbase, and why creating a distinctive identity for women’s football—not just mirroring the men’s game—is key to partnership development and long-term success.
- 00:00 Introduction: Soccer or Football?
- 02:08 The WPLL: Structure and Vision
- 04:25 Challenges and Opportunities in Women's Football
- 08:29 Media and Global Expansion
- 13:04 Brand Identity and Club Strategies
- 15:14 Commercial Partnerships and Growth
- 20:59 Player Involvement and Standards
- 23:10 Leveraging Global Competitions
- 26:45 Future Prospects and Final Thoughts
- 37:05 Conclusion and Credits
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Can we just clarify, given the accents, are we going
with soccer or football?
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Otherwise I'm the fifteen both.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
I think have some fun with it. But we'll clarify
upfront in this episode that this is a football focused
conversation and we don't mean the American version. Welcome back
to court Side, where we're going to break down the
business of women's sports with the people shaping its future.
I'm your host, Laura Currenty. On this episode of court
Side with Laura Currenty, we are headed across the Pond,
(00:32):
and not with Ted Lasso. No, we are syncing up
with WPLLL commercial executive Zara l Kutsi. Zara is one
of my favorite people who is single handedly leading the
charge and developing the business side of WSL and Championship Leagues.
The WPLL who's recently spun out to house both the
WSL and the Championship League, is going through a bit
(00:54):
of a renaissance under this new structure, with new commercial
partners and growing metea rites deals. Join me court Side
with Zara el Kutzi. I am thrilled to welcome a friend,
colleague trailblazer from across the pond. Zara welcome to the show.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Hello, bringing a bit of English flavor and accent to
the show.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
We love it. There's lots of accents flying right now,
so this is going to be a great listen for
anybody who's tuning in. Zara, as I said, is a
longtime friend and is now spearheading building the business of
the WSL as part of a broader initiative to spin
out into a new co just last year. So Zara,
(01:39):
give us the high level on what the WPLL is
after and then we'll get into it.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
So the WPNL we were founded August last year. We
are a standalone entity that wake up and go to
bed having thought about the women's professional game in England
all day long and actually at the moment pretty much
all night as well. We are charged with the three
competitions in England, so the Barkie's Women's Super League with
(02:05):
twelve teams, the Barkers Women's Championship twelve teams, and then
the Subway League Cup which is our knockout event. So
we have those three competitions and I think the biggest
thing is, you know, how do we keep growing our
game to make sure that it's elite but also distinctive
from the men's game in this country, and I think
you know that the biggest sort of differential from say
(02:26):
you're NWSL is that a number of our teams are
affiliated with men's teams that have phenomenal global and traditional
heritage and backgrounds and brands.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
So that's us in a nutshell.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Can you talk about why the spin out to create
the WPL, particularly in England is such a big deal,
knowing how long the women's teams have been part of
the men's organizations and operated as such.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
So our shareholders are the clubs that play within those leagues.
So this season that's twenty three different teams and this
is actually the twenty four prior to this season with
those that agreed that actually they wanted to have a
standalone entity, much as the Premier League is in the
men's game. The FA had done a phenomenal job since
(03:11):
they founded the WSL back in twenty ten, and actually
the WSLS the top league, only became fully professional in
twenty eighteen, but that whole time, it's also been part
of the FA's remit and the FA's our governing body.
You know, they're charged with participation all the way through
to our line s's and actually being able to have
independent ownership of the women's professional game through our entity
(03:34):
just means that we can support our shareholders, our players,
and our fans and maximize the opportunity and the growth
of the women's game from a club perspective in this country,
albeit working very closely in hand to hand with the FA,
because it is important that we think about our growth
in the context of the overall pyramid here, whether that
is participation or whether that is also the pathway through
(03:58):
to being a lion s and continuing that success on
the world stage.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
When I think about what many of US stateside have experience,
right there has never been the combination of women's entity
with men's entity, and that has led to the start
and stop of women's professional soccer in the US over
many years because the resources, the facilities, the infrastructure hasn't
been there. Have you seen that as a competitive advantage?
And then how are you thinking about the delineation now
(04:25):
and it not being encumbered by the men's brands or identity,
but still being supported and having that head start given
that that infrastructure was already in place.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Yeah, it's you know, we are It's just as obvious
we are different to the men's game, both on and
off the pitch, and it's just it's about developing it
through the lens of the female athlete and also our
fandom and looking at what's unique and what's distinctive. I think,
as you mentioned, we are you know, we are blessed
in the fact that with the game having been born here,
we have some amazing club brands. I mean six of
(04:57):
the biggest sports brands globally according to Forbes sit in
our league as well, Chelsea Arsenal, man United, etc. So
it is great for our women's teams to be able
to tap into that as well. But I think a
shared problem that we have along with the NWSL is
actually when it comes to scheduling and access to stadium
because I know a lot of the NWSL teams also
share with MLS clubs and that's where, Yes, it's great
(05:20):
as you mentioned that you had that infrastructure. I mean
Brighton are actually in the process of building a standalone
women's stadium, much as Kansas have done, and they said,
I think there were about thirty differences to that stadium
versus what they currently have for their men's team. So
it's great we do have infrastructure, but it's also working
out how do you build and how do we help
the women's game grow within a framework that's really well
(05:43):
built around the men's game.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
One of the things you think often about is building
the brand identity, creating space for the teams, the coaches,
the players to have the opportunity to be able to
clearly delineate and define them. So what is the brand
identity for the women's team separate from the men's.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
I mean every single club is doing it a little
bit different, so you know, Arsenal actually have been very
clear that they want to have one club with two
teams in their men's and their women's and they keep
everything very centralized from that perspective, whereas Chelsea recently actually
their women's team is now a standalone entity within the club,
so they share the club, crest and the brand, but
(06:24):
they are effectively to businesses and I think we're just
learning because it's different for every club as to how
they maximize that opportunity. And then you know, we also
do have two clubs in both of our leagues that
aren't affiliated to men's team, so you've got Michelle Kang's
London City lion Esses, and then you've also got this
amazing story that you know, I'm waiting to see it
on Netflix at some point where Durham two lottery winners
(06:48):
have actually now invested in that team as well. So
we've also we do have a mix of some that
aren't affiliated and some that are, some that are associated
to Premier League clubs, some that are EFL clubs. So
with that mix, it's working out what is best for
each club and being able to support that. But I
think just you know, I want to tap into something
that Kate Johnson said on one of your other episodes,
(07:11):
because I love when she talked about in the WNBA
the strength of actually multiple stakeholders coming together. So the
example she gave is, you know, the great work she's
done with Google, but actually it's not just Google and WNBA.
It's making sure ESPN's part of that conversation as well.
And I think that's the thing that I love about
the opportunity we have. In general, every stakeholder in the
(07:33):
women's game seems to be a lot more open to
collaborating and working together, whether that's Sky Sports with our
clubs or with Barclay's who our title partner. It's about
getting that mix right with all of them. And I
think what the WNBA have done really well over the
last few years is maximize that integration.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Yeah, I love that, and for so long it's been
out of necessity, but it feels like we are embarking
on an era of out of opportunity, which I think
is just a new model, in a new way of
thinking about the hierarchy, structure, combination of assets, all of
those things. So I couldn't agree more. And speaking of media,
you know, obviously Stateside, ted Lasso completely transformed I think
(08:12):
so many casual or previously non existent fans into fans
of the premier league. Ted is gearing up for a
new season focused on the women's game, But just talk
about in terms of media, thinking about the expansion both
just within your market, but then how you scale visibility
and access to the WSL and Championship League to markets beyond.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
I mean one of the things from this season we
moved from historically the long tail games we're all sat
on the FA Player's att platform, and this season we
moved that to YouTube and we started the season with
zero subscribers, so it was a brand new YouTube channel.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
We now have two hundred and fifty thousand.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Subscribers and the seventy five matches I think it is
on count that we had on YouTube this year have
demonstrated the value of putting it on an open platform
like YouTube, which we then have also been able to
work with advertising partners on. But you know, a really
good example of it, it's more than just how many
eyeballs you're getting.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
On the League Cup.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
We actually worked with both YouTube and then also Subway,
so going back to the point that Kate made about
bringing different stakeholders together and we did multiview so for
the first time, I think it was the first league
in Europe that did multiview on YouTube. And what was
really interesting on that data is that actually we found
people were watching multiview and then you're a lot more
(09:33):
accustomed to it with something like an NFL red zone.
We don't do quite so much of it in England,
but that's how people were watching the four quarter finals
of the League Cup. They were dipping in and out
of key moments of those four matches and actually watched
all four games as a multiview product versus finding it
and then go in and out. So I think YouTube's
opened us up to it. Unsurprisingly a younger demographic. However,
(09:56):
that's also on TV and not necessarily on mobile. But
I think even our partners like Sky are looking at
actually how they all look at all of their platforms
for next season as well as not just linear and
even where they schedule the matches. You know, we had
a great round this year where Arsenal men were at
home to Man City and Arsenal women were away to
Man City, and so they scheduled it as a back
(10:18):
to back and we saw that come through in the
audience ratings as well. So there's a lot of little
things that were learning on stuff like that. And as
you mentioned, you know, yes, we're looking at our international
piece now as well, and I think, you know, the
international growth opportunity, which I know you've talked about in
women's sport previously as being that accelerated piece.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Couldn't agree more.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
I mean, if you just looked the last three seasons,
our global growth has actually flipped completely in terms of
UK used to dominate our audience and now our growth
we've seen that go the other way around, where you know,
global audience used to make up twenty eight percent of
our total audience, it's now sixty three percent In terms
of growth overall.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Where are the big market.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
North America latter a huge growth now as well, and
then Japan Australia. But just I mean, it's kind of
been a multi market piece that we've seen growth in general.
I think it reflects just the number of international players
that we've got in the league. But I think, just
to round out your question, it's also how we support
the players.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
And that's like one.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
Of the big reasons that we made sure as part
of our new media rights agreement that the players will
get access to their own footage.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Because you know, they are the stars of our league.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
They are our strongest marketing arm And it seems crazy
to me right now that you can you know, you'll
watch a live Elatoon Worldie for Man United and all
she can do is post the static Getty image of
it after the match, And so why would we not
give her that ability to clip up her own goal
and put it out on her own channels. So that's
one of the things that we've worked with Sky particularly
(11:47):
on how do we support our players to get access
to their own footage from next season onwards, and actually
how do we help our players build their channels.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Speaking of promotion and tune in, because this is something
that I think has really hamstrung the growth of women's sports,
both from a knowing when and where to find the games,
but b having conversations in ancillary and shoulder programming to
learn more about the team, learn more about the players,
learn more about the league overall. How are you thinking
(12:31):
about that at the league level, to not just obviously
focus on ninety minutes, but really thinking about the stories
and broader narratives that might exist outside of it.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
If I look back before I joined the league, I
was at Chelsea for a year and that was definitely
something we looked at there because prior to being at Chelsea,
I didn't know a lot of the players stories. In
a very short time after I started, it became apparent
like what phenomenal stories there were across that team. You've
got someone like go Writing who's the same time as
being a footballer, is doing a degree in mechanical engineering.
(13:04):
You've got someone that at the time had come through cancer.
I mean now you've got Sachimusovich who is currently pregnant
and will go through being a mum in the team
as well, so there were all these great stories and
one of the things we looked at was actually podcasting
and you know, as we are sat here talking and
said it is it feels like there's a really undertapped
(13:25):
space in the audio area for women's sport in particular
to tell those stories. So we launched the Chelsea podcast
and it's been a huge success and Scoeda then actually
picked it up as part of their partnership.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
So that's just one example.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
You know, we've also looked at how do we, to
your point, provide that content around the live match day
for all of our clubs, But a lot of this
also then taps is. I think the ideas are there
and if a lot of people know the stories, it's
actually how do we support with resource, how do we
support with you know, high production spec because if you
watch some of our games this season on YouTube, if
all of them are single, can I know? Mary Ups
(14:01):
actually wrote a piece on her LinkedIn recently about this,
which is great that she highlighted it because it's one
thing giving people access to it. But we all have
our own unconscious expectation as to what we actually want
to see. So we go from watching a twenty four
cam match production on Sky and then we're disappointed when
we're watching single camera on YouTube. So that's you know,
(14:24):
I think next season we're stepping that up because we
recognize we need to do better production, so we will
have more cameras, will have in bold comms. But then
it is also about helping our clubs find the right
resource to do the clipping or so then in return
understanding from them what are the great stories that we
need to tell how can we support them, So it's
not just one thing. I think that's the thing I've
(14:45):
learned both at Chelsea and also here that a lot
of people know the stories, they just need the support
in telling them.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
There's so much of what we're seeing, particularly Stateside on
that specifically is the role of commercial partners brand partners
to come in and just be the logo slab in
stadium or on kit, but actually providing resources. So you know,
we were talking about Google earlier in Kate Johnson and
one of the things that I love that they did
in the NWSL Championship last year was give a ton
(15:13):
of creators pixels pitch side to be able to capture
content through their lens and amplify what was happening around
that match in real time from different angles, whether it
was about the fashion they were seeing, the fan experiences happening,
or you know, highlights from the game itself. How do
you see your partners coming in You know you mentioned Scota,
I do you know Google's working with Arsenal, But what
(15:34):
are the interesting insights that you're starting to see come
to fruition.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
I mean, first of all, to answer your question, yes,
there is always room for partners to be able to
support with storytelling and amplifying it. It's just working out
which areas because you know, I think it's there are
so many different verticals for a partner to lean into.
It's understanding actually what we either use the word authentic,
but it is important that they're authentic to themselves. So
(15:58):
Barclays is a tie partner. Have been doing a lot
in the grassrooms space and helping grassroots and a young
girls at school level get access to and being able
to be coached into football. And then they bring that
and they lean into their WSL and their championship activations
by bringing some of those young girls there. They'll also
do a lot of B to B hosting at some
of those matches.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
I mean, it's a really simple thing.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
But if you just look at Pinini even just having
a sticker album with every single players details in their
and their skill level, their specs, their name, their number.
I grew up trading stickers, but only the men's stickers,
and so just that is their trade to create trading products.
But actually it's a really powerful partner to have because
you are you're educating at a younger level, and you're
(16:42):
providing a product for Gena to now be part of. Likewise,
with Nike, they do a lot also in developing female
coaches in the community. I think you gave the Google
Pixel example a great example of how they use their
product to actually amplify the storytelling itself.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
So we're seeing it more.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
And more in terms of the partners that are coming
in either through the league or with our clubs, of
their commitment to deliver in a certain area, whether that's
most recently. Personal also did a big campaign in this
country to highlight menstruation within playing sport and young girls,
and actually that can often be a barrier for young
girls to want to play sport because of fear of
(17:21):
period leakage. Likewise, where Man City actually did do a
partnership with a period pant and also the Joy which
is a maternity brand here also with their stadium and
there's a commitment around that as well. So I think
we're seeing a lot more partners with purpose and recognizing
that's a really powerful way to do a partnership. There's
a lot peas in there.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
I love the partnership with purpose, and I think we're
really seeing that, the intentionality, the authenticity, not just here
obviously and across the pond, but around the world in
terms of how brands really are showing up to help
accelerate the women's game. One of the unique differentiators between
the UK and the US from a league perspective is
single entity ownership versus team specific ownership and obviously how
(18:03):
that then impacts decisions. Can you talk a little bit
about the business operating structure for those who might not know.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Yeah, So in the NWSL, an NWSL team will pay
a franchise fee to be part of the NWSL. We
effectively have our as I mentioned, our twenty three shareholders,
our existing clubs, and we are responsible and we report
into those twenty three or twenty four clubs from next season,
which then also means that any whether it's commercial or
(18:32):
strategic changes or additions that we want to make to
the league. So if I bring a new sponsor on
or a new media rights partner, then we do go
to our clubs for votes around that. I think each
of the clubs, as I mentioned, also has a very
different structure that's similar on the men's game as to
ownership and how each of them choose to operate that
(18:53):
within the club, but they effectively have a license to
be within our two league competitions.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
This is great to be around potentially closing off pro
rel for the short term to effectively bolster investment in
the first Division. Can you talk about that?
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Yes, I can talk about it, and we're not talking
about closing anything off. We are looking though at the
different structures of both of the leagues and what is
the optimal opportunity for each of our shareholders and for
us being charged to run the professional game to look
at also within the context of the overall pyramid. There
is no point to us doing something completely in isolation
(19:31):
that doesn't think about because below the championship there are
other tiers of football that the FA operates and that's
where ultimately you come from the grassroots level up and
you come into those tiers and you work your way
up into the Championship and then the WSL. So we
do have to think about the whole piece, but I
mean investment is also crucial to raising the minimum standards
(19:51):
across the whole of the women's games. There are two
tiers and then the tiers below that as well, from
facilities to player support, fan experience, and we know that
we need investments so that women's football can have a
successful future. So it's just working through with each of
our clubs to say what is the best position to
make sure that you can maximize your investment as well
(20:14):
as overall investment into the league to raise those standards
and make sure that we do have a game that's
elite and distinctive and holds true to our mission, which
is to be the most distinctive, competitive and entertaining league
in women's sport.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
What are some of the standards and things that you're
working with in collaboration with the players to elevate the
playing field. I think this is a global initiative right
now to require a level of standards that not only
protects their health and well being, but also can elevate
the economic opportunity for them and the sustainment of the
(20:48):
leagues and teams themselves.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
I agree with you.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
I think it's great that our players actually athletes in general,
and as you mentioned, it's not just women's football that
I think you see this. Women's sport in general are
always willing to speak up. But I also know I
feel quite passionately that there shouldn't be an expectation that
they also have to speak up. We should be trying
to proactively drive change that reflects their desires and reflects
(21:11):
their level of expectation within the arena that they all
play in. In terms of how we work with them,
I mean we with our clubs, because a number of
our clubs, if not a majority of them, actually consult
their players in turn about a lot of this. And
I think when we talk about looking at best structures
and opportunities that lie there, it's actually looking at all
of the and I would give specifics, but the principles
(21:32):
around you know, how many contact coaching hours do you
have with your players? Does every club have the right
structure of performance staff or the similar structure of performance stuff.
Does everyone have the same access to the same equipment.
Does everyone have equal access to the fundamentals and basics
of football, whether that's your balls, boots, hardware, software for training.
(21:54):
So it's making sure that we can try and we've
been doing this. We've been looking at actually what is
that consistency or lack of across both leagues and then
also looking at that pathway and working with the fail
on that is, how do you make it as easy
as possible to get young girls to make that leap
from entry level sort of school age into it an
academy set up with one of our clubs, because that's
(22:15):
probably where it differs a little bit from the US structure,
where you have a really well built and structured collegiate
system which players you know, it's just culturally you go
through that and then you go through into a club.
And so we're looking at how we best set up
that pathway from a young girl right through to a
club to being a Lioness.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
We are on the precipice of the Euros, which we
are very very excited about and we'll be interesting to
see if the Lionesses can go back to back. But
how does the league think about leveraging global competition and
knowing that you have so many great, high profile players
that will be coming together.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
So I mean the boom that we're seeing in women's
in this country happened on the back of the lion
Ses the England team winning the euro Is in twenty
twenty two, so we saw a mass of influx, and
Arsenal in particular they were ready to jump on that
in terms of tickets at the Emirates which is the
main stadia for Arsenal. Then in twenty three with the
(23:11):
World Cup final again we saw a big boom and
the time difference wasn't great in this country with it
being in Australia, but with England being in that final,
we saw an influx again on the back of that
of interest and excitement. I think women's football in this
country is definitely top down in the fact that a
lot of interest comes in from the international game and
(23:31):
then into the club game. This season actually is the
first season in a while that we've had a club
season without the England team in action in the summer prior,
so in a bizarre way, we've been forced to lay
foundations and strengthen ourselves without the reliance of that lion
S summer ready for the Euros, and I will add
also Wales from a home nation's perspective, will be at
(23:53):
the Euros as well as England this summer. I've gone
off on a little bit of a tangent there just
to say we recognize the importance of windows in growing
interest in the game. We're also fortunate in the fact
the BBC is both a partner of ours and also
we have some of the Euro's games, so we also
share a media rights partner in the English game. And
(24:15):
I think the other thing we're looking at is also
how do we amplify some of the bird players and
the heroes outside of the Lioness's You know, I think
they naturally now actually almost look after themselves, such is
the interest in them. It's probably you know, something that
you've you've had for a long time now. The US
team just naturally, the US women's team has interest and profile,
(24:36):
and I think the lion s Is are definitely at
that stage here. So now it's actually looking at a
lot of our other nationalities within our league. Whether it's
our most represented nation in the league outside of England
is Holland, so we have a load of Dutch, great
Dutch players we have some great German, Swedish, French, you know,
we've got plenty of European players in the league that
actually it's about hearing other players as well, so that
(24:58):
when you come back it's not just the Lionesses that
are driving interest. It's a multi nation approach and I think,
you know, it reminds me going back when I've worked
on the Rugby World Cup in twenty fifteen, and yes
it was in England. It was hosted England, so it
was a home World Cup, plus the other three home
nations were also playing. But as the organizers, we said,
(25:19):
our job is not here to prepare for England to
win the World Cup. It's to make sure that we
have a successful World Cup. And I think this is
the same piece where we have to prepare the league
to drive interest and fandom for more than just the
England players this summer, because I think the FA do
a great job of profiling them and tapping into the
England team.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
It's such a great point in terms of how you
think about the broader representation and how leveraging the amount
of nations that are representing the WSL to bring fans
in beyond just the borders. Of the UK. What are
(26:08):
you most excited about rounding out year one of the
WPL in action and where you see the potential.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
I think just time, you know, I kind of I
forget myself that I've only been in this role for
six months and so we as an entity that existed, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
And we've only existed for six and a half months.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
So I think I'm most excited that we've We've put
a lot of groundwork in this season. I mean, I
kind of wish we were talking in a couple of
months time, because I know some of the things that
we've got in the pipeline, and you will see that
the foundations that have been laid just in this season,
we will see bear fruit next season in multiple different ways,
whether that's the strength of our brand, whether that's partners
(26:51):
digital infrastructure. Again, it's sort of I see so many
parallels and this might sound nuts, but I see so
many parallels to when I joined Swoman one in twenty seventeen,
just after Liberty had bought them. When you have the
opportunity of a blank canvas, yet you're built on some
foundations that already exist. In this instance, more than ten
years of a leak structure and you're able to build
(27:14):
on that.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
It's just it's so exciting.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
So I'm excited to see some of the fruits of
our labor coming to fruition in the coming months because
I think that would only help us to amplify and
accelerate further.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
It feels like we have so much momentum at our backs.
And when I say we, I think it's the global
women's sports community. Everything from new technology facilities, data analytics,
I mean, all of the things that are going to
help make the business case to continue to bring more
partners to the table. Can you talk about some of
the essentials or requirements maybe even mandates that you think
(27:46):
the WPL needs to implement in order to make sure
that this momentum is sustained and that there is incremental
year over year growth.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
I think from a commercial perspective anyway, it's about how
we best support our clubs with the storytelling piece. So
it's making sure, as I mentioned, that everyone has as
much access to resource and opportunity as possible. Now, if
that's not within their own club, how do we as
a league support that from a central position? Because let's
just say, to use the word mandate. Let's just say
(28:17):
we mandate that everyone has to have a dedicated TikTok
exec or manager that's cutting content and maximizing the women's
team's channel. That's suddenly a headcount that we're pushing on
to people that they're having to commit to from a
salary perspective. So it actually, is there an effective way
that where some clubs might already have that role in place,
(28:37):
some don't, can we centralize the support in that way?
So that's the balance that we're trying to find of
what do we put out to clubs where they want
to own and have the responsibility of running that, and
what can we do from a central position. But I mean,
the main thing I would also say is from women's
sport in general is and you'll know this, there's a
data gap in so many different areas that the more
(28:58):
we can share centralized data, and we've been doing as
much as we can, whether that's linear, TV, social, digital,
even understanding the valuations of each of our clubs sponsorships
on their kit assets and helping them have sight of
what everyone else is charging in the market, because if
if the market valuation is so disparent across the league,
(29:18):
it doesn't help anyone if you've got the bottom is
so low and the top is too high. So how
do we And we've already been working with the clubs
on that because you know, that's where I believe doing
great league deals helps to generate and put market values
markers out there for our clubs to then be able
to lean off. If you look at our you know
we've renewed the Barclays Title partnership, which is now the
(29:40):
largest women's club football sponsorships in the world.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
And likewise Sky as well.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
You know that there was Sky and BBC Sky in particular,
that's sort of their commitment from the media wites perspective.
Again is another marker, and it makes it easier for
our club store to go into their brand and their
prospect discussions and say, well, this is what the league
is currently doing, and this is what the brands are
telling us we're worth. That's why we're asking you for
what we are just also, I had sort of a
(30:05):
more tangible example of some of the things that make
me excited, and only yesterday so Chelsea Manu is the
Women's FA Cup final in May, and both clubs lobbied
the Premier League to move their men's match because Chelsea
Manu just happens in the men's in the Premier League
was scheduled for the same day as the women's FA
(30:26):
Cup final, and both clubs asked the Premier League to
move their men's match so that their fans don't have
to make a choice between watching the women in the
FA Cup final or their men in the Premier League.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
Is that the first time that's ever happened.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
Yes, it is, And I think this it's things like that.
They're so symbolic and sometimes I think we get really
caught up.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
And have they agreed, Yeah, they have.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
They've moved it to the Friday night, which because the
Premier League has said that they would not put a
game on against the men's FA Cup final, which is
the day before, and so so then the team said,
well we don't want one against us either.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
Yeah. Progress, absolute progress. One of the things that I'm
most enamored with right now is how so many of
the WSL players are taking control of their narratives. I know,
you know, Millie Bright and Rachel Daily just launched their
podcast The bright Side. You know, I've been seeing more
and more content coming out from players like Lucy Brown's
(31:21):
both about football, but beyond I'm seeing you know, pregame
fits in photos and you know, just this cultural side
of these footballers that we're not accustomed to, particularly in
the States. Are there things that you're loving right now
that the players are doing to add that level of
dimension to the narrative that is helping you to then
(31:43):
be able to, from a commercial standpoint, merchandise the league
in new and differentiated ways.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
I think that is love.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
When You've listed a couple of good examples, I think
I love the breadth that we're seeing, breadth of platform
and the breadth of content, so it's not all just
for ballers talking about football. You know, I mentioned Mary Ups.
It's got LinkedIn page and she's started talking about the
business of football.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
One of the only, if not the only. Yeah, I
think she was definitely the first female footballer that I've
seen on LinkedIn, and I just thought it was such
a brilliant business move.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Yeah, I'd agree.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
You know, Elatoon and Alessa Russo also have had a
brilliant podcast, and I know Elatoon's YouTube channel also does
really well. You know, her personality definitely comes through on
that front. But I think they're each they're all finding
their own unique way to best represent themselves, whether that's
through their their own channels orlso in some instances where
(32:38):
the clubs are also supporting to do that. So I
kind of I think, I just love that there's a
confidence to be their authentic selves and not feel like
they can only talk about football, because invariably most of
them actually are talking about more than just football.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
In the US, we are seeing a bit of a
gold rush on the commercial side of brands coming in
and around women's sports leagues, but unfortunately for some of
the higher spending categories, that means that they're coming up
against exclusivities and limitations in terms of what they can
and cannot do. What would you say to those who
are blocked state side but are looking to reach a
(33:15):
women's sports audience global at that in what they should
consider in the WSL that they might not have thought
about otherwise.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
So interesting.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
I actually was reading a report today that showed that
a majority of US league Women's league partnerships, to your point,
are domestic brands, whereas actually if you look at WSL
and I think our Spanish and German league compatriots, they
appears they also were predominantly global brands that are actually
(33:45):
sponsoring our teams. So I think it would be the
fact that in the last World Cup we did have
the most number of players at the last World Cup.
We have over thirty four nationalities represented in our league,
and that I think the also the fact, and you
know this is a benefit and we've already talked about it,
(34:05):
that we have six of the biggest sports brands represented
in our league. So I think having that global brand
affinity with some of our clubs, but also then the
fact that we can be distinctive and do things uniquely
indifferent as say than the men's game, is a really
good mix around that. But also you know, you do
(34:26):
get your global growth opportunity as well. And a number
of our clubs also will do summer tours. So last
year you had you know, a number of the teams
went to Australia, somewhere, to Japan, We came to Weep
with my old Chelsea hat On, came to New York
and Arsenal also in Washington, d C. So you've also
got clubs that are able to activate on site within
(34:47):
markets where you know, hopefully some of these brands are based.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
What are the things that you are hopeful for women's
sport in general, but also want to make sure goals
addressed into of you know, ensuring the growth and that
the standards are raised.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
I think it's a little bit like Kate said actually
in her conversation with you, I think the hope is
that this is it continues, and it's we're not still
talking about You're not asking the hope question in five
years time, because actually women's sport has accelerated, lads, and
really solid foundations, and yes it's still growing, but actually
the foundations mean that it's not a hope question anymore.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
It just is.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
So I think that and I think we're seeing it,
but we just can't move quick enough. You know, time
is both the biggest healer and killer because we I
think we're being judged on the men's sports timeline forgetting
a lot of our men's leagues in multiple sports have
been built over decades, and actually the expectation is that
the women's leagues have to get there now. But I
(35:50):
think also that we don't lose sight of the fact
that we have the chance to do things differently. You know,
I've when I had Chelsea and i'd say to Emma Hayes,
I think one of the really opportunities for the women's
game or women's sport is that you can take the
lessons from the men's game or men's sport and actually
take the good bits amply them and then also work
(36:11):
out the bits that haven't worked quite so well. Or
if you could do your time again, how would you
do it that That's what that's the opportunity women's sport has,
and I think also it's if we get it right.
I think it has a really powerful role to play
in society. And I feel like that's a whole other
podcast that you could get into as to where we
are right now.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
Zara, truly always such a pleasure to talk with you.
I'm absolutely rooting for you and the WPLL team. I'm
hopeful people walk away from this conversation a bit more
educated about what's going on in the UK, recognizing that
it's not just though contained to the UK. The international
growth is obvious.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
But I am.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
Hopeful because people like you are at the helm making
it so so thank you so much for joining us
on court side, and I can't wait to see you
soon over a match.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Well.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Thank you and I appreciate you always championing our international
voice in everything you do, so thank you very much.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
I'm your host Laura Crenti, founder and CEO of Deep
Blue Sports and Entertainment. Our executive producer is Jesse Katz,
and this show is produced by Ryan Martz along with
associate producers Meredith Barnes and Rachel Zuckerman. Court Side is
an iHeart Women's Sports production and partnership with Deep Blue
Sports and Entertainment. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts,
(37:27):
or wherever you get your podcasts. Want more, follow, rate,
and review court Side wherever you get your podcasts, and
stay in the game by following us on social media
at iHeart Women's Sports, and don't forget to subscribe to
our newsletter. In the show notes, thanks for listening. We'll
see you next time. Court Side
Can we just clarify, given the accents, are we going
with soccer or football?
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Otherwise I'm the fifteen both.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
I think have some fun with it. But we'll clarify
upfront in this episode that this is a football focused
conversation and we don't mean the American version. Welcome back
to court Side, where we're going to break down the
business of women's sports with the people shaping its future.
I'm your host, Laura Currenty. On this episode of court
Side with Laura Currenty, we are headed across the Pond,
(00:32):
and not with Ted Lasso. No, we are syncing up
with WPLLL commercial executive Zara l Kutsi. Zara is one
of my favorite people who is single handedly leading the
charge and developing the business side of WSL and Championship Leagues.
The WPLL who's recently spun out to house both the
WSL and the Championship League, is going through a bit
(00:54):
of a renaissance under this new structure, with new commercial
partners and growing metea rites deals. Join me court Side
with Zara el Kutzi. I am thrilled to welcome a friend,
colleague trailblazer from across the pond. Zara welcome to the show.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Hello, bringing a bit of English flavor and accent to
the show.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
We love it. There's lots of accents flying right now,
so this is going to be a great listen for
anybody who's tuning in. Zara, as I said, is a
longtime friend and is now spearheading building the business of
the WSL as part of a broader initiative to spin
out into a new co just last year. So Zara,
(01:39):
give us the high level on what the WPLL is
after and then we'll get into it.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
So the WPNL we were founded August last year. We
are a standalone entity that wake up and go to
bed having thought about the women's professional game in England
all day long and actually at the moment pretty much
all night as well. We are charged with the three
competitions in England, so the Barkie's Women's Super League with
(02:05):
twelve teams, the Barkers Women's Championship twelve teams, and then
the Subway League Cup which is our knockout event. So
we have those three competitions and I think the biggest
thing is, you know, how do we keep growing our
game to make sure that it's elite but also distinctive
from the men's game in this country, and I think
you know that the biggest sort of differential from say
(02:26):
you're NWSL is that a number of our teams are
affiliated with men's teams that have phenomenal global and traditional
heritage and backgrounds and brands.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
So that's us in a nutshell.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
Can you talk about why the spin out to create
the WPL, particularly in England is such a big deal,
knowing how long the women's teams have been part of
the men's organizations and operated as such.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
So our shareholders are the clubs that play within those leagues.
So this season that's twenty three different teams and this
is actually the twenty four prior to this season with
those that agreed that actually they wanted to have a
standalone entity, much as the Premier League is in the
men's game. The FA had done a phenomenal job since
(03:11):
they founded the WSL back in twenty ten, and actually
the WSLS the top league, only became fully professional in
twenty eighteen, but that whole time, it's also been part
of the FA's remit and the FA's our governing body.
You know, they're charged with participation all the way through
to our line s's and actually being able to have
independent ownership of the women's professional game through our entity
(03:34):
just means that we can support our shareholders, our players,
and our fans and maximize the opportunity and the growth
of the women's game from a club perspective in this country,
albeit working very closely in hand to hand with the FA,
because it is important that we think about our growth
in the context of the overall pyramid here, whether that
is participation or whether that is also the pathway through
(03:58):
to being a lion s and continuing that success on
the world stage.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
When I think about what many of US stateside have experience,
right there has never been the combination of women's entity
with men's entity, and that has led to the start
and stop of women's professional soccer in the US over
many years because the resources, the facilities, the infrastructure hasn't
been there. Have you seen that as a competitive advantage?
And then how are you thinking about the delineation now
(04:25):
and it not being encumbered by the men's brands or identity,
but still being supported and having that head start given
that that infrastructure was already in place.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Yeah, it's you know, we are It's just as obvious
we are different to the men's game, both on and
off the pitch, and it's just it's about developing it
through the lens of the female athlete and also our
fandom and looking at what's unique and what's distinctive. I think,
as you mentioned, we are you know, we are blessed
in the fact that with the game having been born here,
we have some amazing club brands. I mean six of
(04:57):
the biggest sports brands globally according to Forbes sit in
our league as well, Chelsea Arsenal, man United, etc. So
it is great for our women's teams to be able
to tap into that as well. But I think a
shared problem that we have along with the NWSL is
actually when it comes to scheduling and access to stadium
because I know a lot of the NWSL teams also
share with MLS clubs and that's where, Yes, it's great
(05:20):
as you mentioned that you had that infrastructure. I mean
Brighton are actually in the process of building a standalone
women's stadium, much as Kansas have done, and they said,
I think there were about thirty differences to that stadium
versus what they currently have for their men's team. So
it's great we do have infrastructure, but it's also working
out how do you build and how do we help
the women's game grow within a framework that's really well
(05:43):
built around the men's game.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
One of the things you think often about is building
the brand identity, creating space for the teams, the coaches,
the players to have the opportunity to be able to
clearly delineate and define them. So what is the brand
identity for the women's team separate from the men's.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
I mean every single club is doing it a little
bit different, so you know, Arsenal actually have been very
clear that they want to have one club with two
teams in their men's and their women's and they keep
everything very centralized from that perspective, whereas Chelsea recently actually
their women's team is now a standalone entity within the club,
so they share the club, crest and the brand, but
(06:24):
they are effectively to businesses and I think we're just
learning because it's different for every club as to how
they maximize that opportunity. And then you know, we also
do have two clubs in both of our leagues that
aren't affiliated to men's team, so you've got Michelle Kang's
London City lion Esses, and then you've also got this
amazing story that you know, I'm waiting to see it
on Netflix at some point where Durham two lottery winners
(06:48):
have actually now invested in that team as well. So
we've also we do have a mix of some that
aren't affiliated and some that are, some that are associated
to Premier League clubs, some that are EFL clubs. So
with that mix, it's working out what is best for
each club and being able to support that. But I
think just you know, I want to tap into something
that Kate Johnson said on one of your other episodes,
(07:11):
because I love when she talked about in the WNBA
the strength of actually multiple stakeholders coming together. So the
example she gave is, you know, the great work she's
done with Google, but actually it's not just Google and WNBA.
It's making sure ESPN's part of that conversation as well.
And I think that's the thing that I love about
the opportunity we have. In general, every stakeholder in the
(07:33):
women's game seems to be a lot more open to
collaborating and working together, whether that's Sky Sports with our
clubs or with Barclay's who our title partner. It's about
getting that mix right with all of them. And I
think what the WNBA have done really well over the
last few years is maximize that integration.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Yeah, I love that, and for so long it's been
out of necessity, but it feels like we are embarking
on an era of out of opportunity, which I think
is just a new model, in a new way of
thinking about the hierarchy, structure, combination of assets, all of
those things. So I couldn't agree more. And speaking of media,
you know, obviously Stateside, ted Lasso completely transformed I think
(08:12):
so many casual or previously non existent fans into fans
of the premier league. Ted is gearing up for a
new season focused on the women's game, But just talk
about in terms of media, thinking about the expansion both
just within your market, but then how you scale visibility
and access to the WSL and Championship League to markets beyond.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
I mean one of the things from this season we
moved from historically the long tail games we're all sat
on the FA Player's att platform, and this season we
moved that to YouTube and we started the season with
zero subscribers, so it was a brand new YouTube channel.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
We now have two hundred and fifty thousand.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Subscribers and the seventy five matches I think it is
on count that we had on YouTube this year have
demonstrated the value of putting it on an open platform
like YouTube, which we then have also been able to
work with advertising partners on. But you know, a really
good example of it, it's more than just how many
eyeballs you're getting.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
On the League Cup.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
We actually worked with both YouTube and then also Subway,
so going back to the point that Kate made about
bringing different stakeholders together and we did multiview so for
the first time, I think it was the first league
in Europe that did multiview on YouTube. And what was
really interesting on that data is that actually we found
people were watching multiview and then you're a lot more
(09:33):
accustomed to it with something like an NFL red zone.
We don't do quite so much of it in England,
but that's how people were watching the four quarter finals
of the League Cup. They were dipping in and out
of key moments of those four matches and actually watched
all four games as a multiview product versus finding it
and then go in and out. So I think YouTube's
opened us up to it. Unsurprisingly a younger demographic. However,
(09:56):
that's also on TV and not necessarily on mobile. But
I think even our partners like Sky are looking at
actually how they all look at all of their platforms
for next season as well as not just linear and
even where they schedule the matches. You know, we had
a great round this year where Arsenal men were at
home to Man City and Arsenal women were away to
Man City, and so they scheduled it as a back
(10:18):
to back and we saw that come through in the
audience ratings as well. So there's a lot of little
things that were learning on stuff like that. And as
you mentioned, you know, yes, we're looking at our international
piece now as well, and I think, you know, the
international growth opportunity, which I know you've talked about in
women's sport previously as being that accelerated piece.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Couldn't agree more.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
I mean, if you just looked the last three seasons,
our global growth has actually flipped completely in terms of
UK used to dominate our audience and now our growth
we've seen that go the other way around, where you know,
global audience used to make up twenty eight percent of
our total audience, it's now sixty three percent In terms
of growth overall.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Where are the big market.
Speaker 1 (10:58):
North America latter a huge growth now as well, and
then Japan Australia. But just I mean, it's kind of
been a multi market piece that we've seen growth in general.
I think it reflects just the number of international players
that we've got in the league. But I think, just
to round out your question, it's also how we support
the players.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
And that's like one.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
Of the big reasons that we made sure as part
of our new media rights agreement that the players will
get access to their own footage.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Because you know, they are the stars of our league.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
They are our strongest marketing arm And it seems crazy
to me right now that you can you know, you'll
watch a live Elatoon Worldie for Man United and all
she can do is post the static Getty image of
it after the match, And so why would we not
give her that ability to clip up her own goal
and put it out on her own channels. So that's
one of the things that we've worked with Sky particularly
(11:47):
on how do we support our players to get access
to their own footage from next season onwards, and actually
how do we help our players build their channels.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Speaking of promotion and tune in, because this is something
that I think has really hamstrung the growth of women's sports,
both from a knowing when and where to find the games,
but b having conversations in ancillary and shoulder programming to
learn more about the team, learn more about the players,
learn more about the league overall. How are you thinking
(12:31):
about that at the league level, to not just obviously
focus on ninety minutes, but really thinking about the stories
and broader narratives that might exist outside of it.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
If I look back before I joined the league, I
was at Chelsea for a year and that was definitely
something we looked at there because prior to being at Chelsea,
I didn't know a lot of the players stories. In
a very short time after I started, it became apparent
like what phenomenal stories there were across that team. You've
got someone like go Writing who's the same time as
being a footballer, is doing a degree in mechanical engineering.
(13:04):
You've got someone that at the time had come through cancer.
I mean now you've got Sachimusovich who is currently pregnant
and will go through being a mum in the team
as well, so there were all these great stories and
one of the things we looked at was actually podcasting
and you know, as we are sat here talking and
said it is it feels like there's a really undertapped
(13:25):
space in the audio area for women's sport in particular
to tell those stories. So we launched the Chelsea podcast
and it's been a huge success and Scoeda then actually
picked it up as part of their partnership.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
So that's just one example.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
You know, we've also looked at how do we, to
your point, provide that content around the live match day
for all of our clubs, But a lot of this
also then taps is. I think the ideas are there
and if a lot of people know the stories, it's
actually how do we support with resource, how do we
support with you know, high production spec because if you
watch some of our games this season on YouTube, if
all of them are single, can I know? Mary Ups
(14:01):
actually wrote a piece on her LinkedIn recently about this,
which is great that she highlighted it because it's one
thing giving people access to it. But we all have
our own unconscious expectation as to what we actually want
to see. So we go from watching a twenty four
cam match production on Sky and then we're disappointed when
we're watching single camera on YouTube. So that's you know,
(14:24):
I think next season we're stepping that up because we
recognize we need to do better production, so we will
have more cameras, will have in bold comms. But then
it is also about helping our clubs find the right
resource to do the clipping or so then in return
understanding from them what are the great stories that we
need to tell how can we support them, So it's
not just one thing. I think that's the thing I've
(14:45):
learned both at Chelsea and also here that a lot
of people know the stories, they just need the support
in telling them.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
There's so much of what we're seeing, particularly Stateside on
that specifically is the role of commercial partners brand partners
to come in and just be the logo slab in
stadium or on kit, but actually providing resources. So you know,
we were talking about Google earlier in Kate Johnson and
one of the things that I love that they did
in the NWSL Championship last year was give a ton
(15:13):
of creators pixels pitch side to be able to capture
content through their lens and amplify what was happening around
that match in real time from different angles, whether it
was about the fashion they were seeing, the fan experiences happening,
or you know, highlights from the game itself. How do
you see your partners coming in You know you mentioned Scota,
I do you know Google's working with Arsenal, But what
(15:34):
are the interesting insights that you're starting to see come
to fruition.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
I mean, first of all, to answer your question, yes,
there is always room for partners to be able to
support with storytelling and amplifying it. It's just working out
which areas because you know, I think it's there are
so many different verticals for a partner to lean into.
It's understanding actually what we either use the word authentic,
but it is important that they're authentic to themselves. So
(15:58):
Barclays is a tie partner. Have been doing a lot
in the grassrooms space and helping grassroots and a young
girls at school level get access to and being able
to be coached into football. And then they bring that
and they lean into their WSL and their championship activations
by bringing some of those young girls there. They'll also
do a lot of B to B hosting at some
of those matches.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
I mean, it's a really simple thing.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
But if you just look at Pinini even just having
a sticker album with every single players details in their
and their skill level, their specs, their name, their number.
I grew up trading stickers, but only the men's stickers,
and so just that is their trade to create trading products.
But actually it's a really powerful partner to have because
you are you're educating at a younger level, and you're
(16:42):
providing a product for Gena to now be part of. Likewise,
with Nike, they do a lot also in developing female
coaches in the community. I think you gave the Google
Pixel example a great example of how they use their
product to actually amplify the storytelling itself.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
So we're seeing it more.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
And more in terms of the partners that are coming
in either through the league or with our clubs, of
their commitment to deliver in a certain area, whether that's
most recently. Personal also did a big campaign in this
country to highlight menstruation within playing sport and young girls,
and actually that can often be a barrier for young
girls to want to play sport because of fear of
(17:21):
period leakage. Likewise, where Man City actually did do a
partnership with a period pant and also the Joy which
is a maternity brand here also with their stadium and
there's a commitment around that as well. So I think
we're seeing a lot more partners with purpose and recognizing
that's a really powerful way to do a partnership. There's
a lot peas in there.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
I love the partnership with purpose, and I think we're
really seeing that, the intentionality, the authenticity, not just here
obviously and across the pond, but around the world in
terms of how brands really are showing up to help
accelerate the women's game. One of the unique differentiators between
the UK and the US from a league perspective is
single entity ownership versus team specific ownership and obviously how
(18:03):
that then impacts decisions. Can you talk a little bit
about the business operating structure for those who might not know.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
Yeah, So in the NWSL, an NWSL team will pay
a franchise fee to be part of the NWSL. We
effectively have our as I mentioned, our twenty three shareholders,
our existing clubs, and we are responsible and we report
into those twenty three or twenty four clubs from next season,
which then also means that any whether it's commercial or
(18:32):
strategic changes or additions that we want to make to
the league. So if I bring a new sponsor on
or a new media rights partner, then we do go
to our clubs for votes around that. I think each
of the clubs, as I mentioned, also has a very
different structure that's similar on the men's game as to
ownership and how each of them choose to operate that
(18:53):
within the club, but they effectively have a license to
be within our two league competitions.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
This is great to be around potentially closing off pro
rel for the short term to effectively bolster investment in
the first Division. Can you talk about that?
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Yes, I can talk about it, and we're not talking
about closing anything off. We are looking though at the
different structures of both of the leagues and what is
the optimal opportunity for each of our shareholders and for
us being charged to run the professional game to look
at also within the context of the overall pyramid. There
is no point to us doing something completely in isolation
(19:31):
that doesn't think about because below the championship there are
other tiers of football that the FA operates and that's
where ultimately you come from the grassroots level up and
you come into those tiers and you work your way
up into the Championship and then the WSL. So we
do have to think about the whole piece, but I
mean investment is also crucial to raising the minimum standards
(19:51):
across the whole of the women's games. There are two
tiers and then the tiers below that as well, from
facilities to player support, fan experience, and we know that
we need investments so that women's football can have a
successful future. So it's just working through with each of
our clubs to say what is the best position to
make sure that you can maximize your investment as well
(20:14):
as overall investment into the league to raise those standards
and make sure that we do have a game that's
elite and distinctive and holds true to our mission, which
is to be the most distinctive, competitive and entertaining league
in women's sport.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
What are some of the standards and things that you're
working with in collaboration with the players to elevate the
playing field. I think this is a global initiative right
now to require a level of standards that not only
protects their health and well being, but also can elevate
the economic opportunity for them and the sustainment of the
(20:48):
leagues and teams themselves.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
I agree with you.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
I think it's great that our players actually athletes in general,
and as you mentioned, it's not just women's football that
I think you see this. Women's sport in general are
always willing to speak up. But I also know I
feel quite passionately that there shouldn't be an expectation that
they also have to speak up. We should be trying
to proactively drive change that reflects their desires and reflects
(21:11):
their level of expectation within the arena that they all
play in. In terms of how we work with them,
I mean we with our clubs, because a number of
our clubs, if not a majority of them, actually consult
their players in turn about a lot of this. And
I think when we talk about looking at best structures
and opportunities that lie there, it's actually looking at all
of the and I would give specifics, but the principles
(21:32):
around you know, how many contact coaching hours do you
have with your players? Does every club have the right
structure of performance staff or the similar structure of performance stuff.
Does everyone have the same access to the same equipment.
Does everyone have equal access to the fundamentals and basics
of football, whether that's your balls, boots, hardware, software for training.
(21:54):
So it's making sure that we can try and we've
been doing this. We've been looking at actually what is
that consistency or lack of across both leagues and then
also looking at that pathway and working with the fail
on that is, how do you make it as easy
as possible to get young girls to make that leap
from entry level sort of school age into it an
academy set up with one of our clubs, because that's
(22:15):
probably where it differs a little bit from the US structure,
where you have a really well built and structured collegiate
system which players you know, it's just culturally you go
through that and then you go through into a club.
And so we're looking at how we best set up
that pathway from a young girl right through to a
club to being a Lioness.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
We are on the precipice of the Euros, which we
are very very excited about and we'll be interesting to
see if the Lionesses can go back to back. But
how does the league think about leveraging global competition and
knowing that you have so many great, high profile players
that will be coming together.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
So I mean the boom that we're seeing in women's
in this country happened on the back of the lion
Ses the England team winning the euro Is in twenty
twenty two, so we saw a mass of influx, and
Arsenal in particular they were ready to jump on that
in terms of tickets at the Emirates which is the
main stadia for Arsenal. Then in twenty three with the
(23:11):
World Cup final again we saw a big boom and
the time difference wasn't great in this country with it
being in Australia, but with England being in that final,
we saw an influx again on the back of that
of interest and excitement. I think women's football in this
country is definitely top down in the fact that a
lot of interest comes in from the international game and
(23:31):
then into the club game. This season actually is the
first season in a while that we've had a club
season without the England team in action in the summer prior,
so in a bizarre way, we've been forced to lay
foundations and strengthen ourselves without the reliance of that lion
S summer ready for the Euros, and I will add
also Wales from a home nation's perspective, will be at
(23:53):
the Euros as well as England this summer. I've gone
off on a little bit of a tangent there just
to say we recognize the importance of windows in growing
interest in the game. We're also fortunate in the fact
the BBC is both a partner of ours and also
we have some of the Euro's games, so we also
share a media rights partner in the English game. And
(24:15):
I think the other thing we're looking at is also
how do we amplify some of the bird players and
the heroes outside of the Lioness's You know, I think
they naturally now actually almost look after themselves, such is
the interest in them. It's probably you know, something that
you've you've had for a long time now. The US
team just naturally, the US women's team has interest and profile,
(24:36):
and I think the lion s Is are definitely at
that stage here. So now it's actually looking at a
lot of our other nationalities within our league. Whether it's
our most represented nation in the league outside of England
is Holland, so we have a load of Dutch, great
Dutch players we have some great German, Swedish, French, you know,
we've got plenty of European players in the league that
actually it's about hearing other players as well, so that
(24:58):
when you come back it's not just the Lionesses that
are driving interest. It's a multi nation approach and I think,
you know, it reminds me going back when I've worked
on the Rugby World Cup in twenty fifteen, and yes
it was in England. It was hosted England, so it
was a home World Cup, plus the other three home
nations were also playing. But as the organizers, we said,
(25:19):
our job is not here to prepare for England to
win the World Cup. It's to make sure that we
have a successful World Cup. And I think this is
the same piece where we have to prepare the league
to drive interest and fandom for more than just the
England players this summer, because I think the FA do
a great job of profiling them and tapping into the
England team.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
It's such a great point in terms of how you
think about the broader representation and how leveraging the amount
of nations that are representing the WSL to bring fans
in beyond just the borders. Of the UK. What are
(26:08):
you most excited about rounding out year one of the
WPL in action and where you see the potential.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
I think just time, you know, I kind of I
forget myself that I've only been in this role for
six months and so we as an entity that existed, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
And we've only existed for six and a half months.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
So I think I'm most excited that we've We've put
a lot of groundwork in this season. I mean, I
kind of wish we were talking in a couple of
months time, because I know some of the things that
we've got in the pipeline, and you will see that
the foundations that have been laid just in this season,
we will see bear fruit next season in multiple different ways,
whether that's the strength of our brand, whether that's partners
(26:51):
digital infrastructure. Again, it's sort of I see so many
parallels and this might sound nuts, but I see so
many parallels to when I joined Swoman one in twenty seventeen,
just after Liberty had bought them. When you have the
opportunity of a blank canvas, yet you're built on some
foundations that already exist. In this instance, more than ten
years of a leak structure and you're able to build
(27:14):
on that.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
It's just it's so exciting.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
So I'm excited to see some of the fruits of
our labor coming to fruition in the coming months because
I think that would only help us to amplify and
accelerate further.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
It feels like we have so much momentum at our backs.
And when I say we, I think it's the global
women's sports community. Everything from new technology facilities, data analytics,
I mean, all of the things that are going to
help make the business case to continue to bring more
partners to the table. Can you talk about some of
the essentials or requirements maybe even mandates that you think
(27:46):
the WPL needs to implement in order to make sure
that this momentum is sustained and that there is incremental
year over year growth.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
I think from a commercial perspective anyway, it's about how
we best support our clubs with the storytelling piece. So
it's making sure, as I mentioned, that everyone has as
much access to resource and opportunity as possible. Now, if
that's not within their own club, how do we as
a league support that from a central position? Because let's
just say, to use the word mandate. Let's just say
(28:17):
we mandate that everyone has to have a dedicated TikTok
exec or manager that's cutting content and maximizing the women's
team's channel. That's suddenly a headcount that we're pushing on
to people that they're having to commit to from a
salary perspective. So it actually, is there an effective way
that where some clubs might already have that role in place,
(28:37):
some don't, can we centralize the support in that way?
So that's the balance that we're trying to find of
what do we put out to clubs where they want
to own and have the responsibility of running that, and
what can we do from a central position. But I mean,
the main thing I would also say is from women's
sport in general is and you'll know this, there's a
data gap in so many different areas that the more
(28:58):
we can share centralized data, and we've been doing as
much as we can, whether that's linear, TV, social, digital,
even understanding the valuations of each of our clubs sponsorships
on their kit assets and helping them have sight of
what everyone else is charging in the market, because if
if the market valuation is so disparent across the league,
(29:18):
it doesn't help anyone if you've got the bottom is
so low and the top is too high. So how
do we And we've already been working with the clubs
on that because you know, that's where I believe doing
great league deals helps to generate and put market values
markers out there for our clubs to then be able
to lean off. If you look at our you know
we've renewed the Barclays Title partnership, which is now the
(29:40):
largest women's club football sponsorships in the world.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
And likewise Sky as well.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
You know that there was Sky and BBC Sky in particular,
that's sort of their commitment from the media wites perspective.
Again is another marker, and it makes it easier for
our club store to go into their brand and their
prospect discussions and say, well, this is what the league
is currently doing, and this is what the brands are
telling us we're worth. That's why we're asking you for
what we are just also, I had sort of a
(30:05):
more tangible example of some of the things that make
me excited, and only yesterday so Chelsea Manu is the
Women's FA Cup final in May, and both clubs lobbied
the Premier League to move their men's match because Chelsea
Manu just happens in the men's in the Premier League
was scheduled for the same day as the women's FA
(30:26):
Cup final, and both clubs asked the Premier League to
move their men's match so that their fans don't have
to make a choice between watching the women in the
FA Cup final or their men in the Premier League.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
Is that the first time that's ever happened.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
Yes, it is, And I think this it's things like that.
They're so symbolic and sometimes I think we get really
caught up.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
And have they agreed, Yeah, they have.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
They've moved it to the Friday night, which because the
Premier League has said that they would not put a
game on against the men's FA Cup final, which is
the day before, and so so then the team said,
well we don't want one against us either.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
Yeah. Progress, absolute progress. One of the things that I'm
most enamored with right now is how so many of
the WSL players are taking control of their narratives. I know,
you know, Millie Bright and Rachel Daily just launched their
podcast The bright Side. You know, I've been seeing more
and more content coming out from players like Lucy Brown's
(31:21):
both about football, but beyond I'm seeing you know, pregame
fits in photos and you know, just this cultural side
of these footballers that we're not accustomed to, particularly in
the States. Are there things that you're loving right now
that the players are doing to add that level of
dimension to the narrative that is helping you to then
(31:43):
be able to, from a commercial standpoint, merchandise the league
in new and differentiated ways.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
I think that is love.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
When You've listed a couple of good examples, I think
I love the breadth that we're seeing, breadth of platform
and the breadth of content, so it's not all just
for ballers talking about football. You know, I mentioned Mary Ups.
It's got LinkedIn page and she's started talking about the
business of football.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
One of the only, if not the only. Yeah, I
think she was definitely the first female footballer that I've
seen on LinkedIn, and I just thought it was such
a brilliant business move.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Yeah, I'd agree.
Speaker 1 (32:17):
You know, Elatoon and Alessa Russo also have had a
brilliant podcast, and I know Elatoon's YouTube channel also does
really well. You know, her personality definitely comes through on
that front. But I think they're each they're all finding
their own unique way to best represent themselves, whether that's
through their their own channels orlso in some instances where
(32:38):
the clubs are also supporting to do that. So I
kind of I think, I just love that there's a
confidence to be their authentic selves and not feel like
they can only talk about football, because invariably most of
them actually are talking about more than just football.
Speaker 3 (32:54):
In the US, we are seeing a bit of a
gold rush on the commercial side of brands coming in
and around women's sports leagues, but unfortunately for some of
the higher spending categories, that means that they're coming up
against exclusivities and limitations in terms of what they can
and cannot do. What would you say to those who
are blocked state side but are looking to reach a
(33:15):
women's sports audience global at that in what they should
consider in the WSL that they might not have thought
about otherwise.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
So interesting.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
I actually was reading a report today that showed that
a majority of US league Women's league partnerships, to your point,
are domestic brands, whereas actually if you look at WSL
and I think our Spanish and German league compatriots, they
appears they also were predominantly global brands that are actually
(33:45):
sponsoring our teams. So I think it would be the
fact that in the last World Cup we did have
the most number of players at the last World Cup.
We have over thirty four nationalities represented in our league,
and that I think the also the fact, and you
know this is a benefit and we've already talked about it,
(34:05):
that we have six of the biggest sports brands represented
in our league. So I think having that global brand
affinity with some of our clubs, but also then the
fact that we can be distinctive and do things uniquely
indifferent as say than the men's game, is a really
good mix around that. But also you know, you do
(34:26):
get your global growth opportunity as well. And a number
of our clubs also will do summer tours. So last
year you had you know, a number of the teams
went to Australia, somewhere, to Japan, We came to Weep
with my old Chelsea hat On, came to New York
and Arsenal also in Washington, d C. So you've also
got clubs that are able to activate on site within
(34:47):
markets where you know, hopefully some of these brands are based.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
What are the things that you are hopeful for women's
sport in general, but also want to make sure goals
addressed into of you know, ensuring the growth and that
the standards are raised.
Speaker 1 (35:04):
I think it's a little bit like Kate said actually
in her conversation with you, I think the hope is
that this is it continues, and it's we're not still
talking about You're not asking the hope question in five
years time, because actually women's sport has accelerated, lads, and
really solid foundations, and yes it's still growing, but actually
the foundations mean that it's not a hope question anymore.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
It just is.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
So I think that and I think we're seeing it,
but we just can't move quick enough. You know, time
is both the biggest healer and killer because we I
think we're being judged on the men's sports timeline forgetting
a lot of our men's leagues in multiple sports have
been built over decades, and actually the expectation is that
the women's leagues have to get there now. But I
(35:50):
think also that we don't lose sight of the fact
that we have the chance to do things differently. You know,
I've when I had Chelsea and i'd say to Emma Hayes,
I think one of the really opportunities for the women's
game or women's sport is that you can take the
lessons from the men's game or men's sport and actually
take the good bits amply them and then also work
(36:11):
out the bits that haven't worked quite so well. Or
if you could do your time again, how would you
do it that That's what that's the opportunity women's sport has,
and I think also it's if we get it right.
I think it has a really powerful role to play
in society. And I feel like that's a whole other
podcast that you could get into as to where we
are right now.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
Zara, truly always such a pleasure to talk with you.
I'm absolutely rooting for you and the WPLL team. I'm
hopeful people walk away from this conversation a bit more
educated about what's going on in the UK, recognizing that
it's not just though contained to the UK. The international
growth is obvious.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
But I am.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
Hopeful because people like you are at the helm making
it so so thank you so much for joining us
on court side, and I can't wait to see you
soon over a match.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Well.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Thank you and I appreciate you always championing our international
voice in everything you do, so thank you very much.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
I'm your host Laura Crenti, founder and CEO of Deep
Blue Sports and Entertainment. Our executive producer is Jesse Katz,
and this show is produced by Ryan Martz along with
associate producers Meredith Barnes and Rachel Zuckerman. Court Side is
an iHeart Women's Sports production and partnership with Deep Blue
Sports and Entertainment. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts,
(37:27):
or wherever you get your podcasts. Want more, follow, rate,
and review court Side wherever you get your podcasts, and
stay in the game by following us on social media
at iHeart Women's Sports, and don't forget to subscribe to
our newsletter. In the show notes, thanks for listening. We'll
see you next time. Court Side
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