May 22, 2025 • 36 mins
As Co-CEO of Horizon Sports & Experiences, David Levy is helping usher in the next era of sports media—just like he did at Turner. He joins Laura to talk about why sports still command top dollar in a fragmented media landscape, Unrivaled's innovative approach to sponsorship, and where he sees opportunity in the rapidly growing women's sports business.
00:39 Meet David Levy: Co-Founder of Horizon Sports and Experiences
02:18 The Evolution of Sports Media
06:39 The Business Case for Women's Sports
10:10 Challenges and Opportunities in Sports Broadcasting
20:01 The Rise of Unrivaled: A New Era in Women's Sports
20:37 Innovative Sponsorship Strategies
26:30 Expanding the League: Future Plans
33:57 The Business of Women's Sports: Insights and Predictions
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Liberty getting a local deal in New York on Channel five,
huge WNBA preseason game.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
All on television.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Think about this, Okay, these are the things that are changing,
and no one's doing this because they think it's the
right thing. They're doing because it's an roo and they
believe it's going to make money for them. Because you're
seeing this shift right now, and let's keep it up.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Welcome back to Courtside, where we break down the business
of women's sports with the people driving its next era.
I'm your host, Laura Karrenty, and today we're talking about power,
perception and what it really takes to shift an entire industry.
My guest is David Levy, former president of Turner Sports,
longtime media executive, and now co founder of Horizon Sports
(00:46):
and Experiences. If you've ever watched the NBA on TNT,
March Madness, or the launch of Bleacher Report, you've seen
his playbook and action, and now he's bringing that same
energy and strategic vision to women's sports conversation. David and
I talk about what's changed in the media sports landscape
since his early days at Turner, why women's sports are
finally being treated as an investment instead of a favor
(01:09):
and how new properties like Unrivaled are rewriting the rules
of engagement on screen and on the court. We get
into the economics, the partnerships, the potential, and yes, the urgency,
because when someone with David Levy's track record says the
business case for women's sports is here now and undeniable,
it's worth listening. Let's get into it, and we are
(01:31):
back in the studio with David Levy. Welcome to court Side.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
Thank you, Laura. Happy to be here and excited to
talk to you today.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Same same, same, And I have to tell you.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
As I was getting ready for today's show, I was like,
when was the first time I met David Levy?
Speaker 2 (01:45):
And you won't remember this, but I do.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Okay, it was at the tow pop up nightclub in
Park City. There was the choice to walk to your
table are Michael B. Jordan's, And I will tell everybody
I went to your.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
Wow, it had to be the Sundance Film Festival that
we were there.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Right, it was, Yeah, we were there for the Sundance Festival.
But that was my first interaction. You were lovely and
then I think you got out of there before it
got crazy, and I respected that it's.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Known as the Levy tuck n' roll.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Yes, I get out before I get out before it
gets bad.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
So excited to talk to you today because you have
literally seen, i think probably every modern iteration of where
sports and entertainment is today. But I want to go
back to the beginning, even pre your time leading the
charge at Turner, and just curious to know when did
you fall in love with sports?
Speaker 4 (02:36):
You know, it's been a passion of mine.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
I've played hockey for over twenty five years, played at
college club hockey at Syracuse. Was always involved in hockey, baseball, soccer,
and my sister was athletic, my mother was athletic, So
that's just been a part of our history.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
So Syracuse hockey. And then where do you jump from identity.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
Involved in the media business.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
I work an intern and ship up at Syracuse at
an advertising agency called Oakmont Advertising. Came down from Syracuse
after graduating and worked at an agency called SSCNB. I
was an assistant media buyer under the Gary Carr, who
was my boss's boss, and Elizabeth O'Brien and I bought
(03:19):
advertising for Heineken and Cover Girl makeup, and I was
put on the cable business back in nineteen eighty four,
which there wasn't a lot of real dollars dumping into
the cable business. But at that point I got I
fell in love with the cable business because I had
to learn it and it was only about eight cable
channels back then. It was superstation WTBS and MTV and
(03:44):
USA Network and Nashville Network.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Fell in love with the cable business.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Then went on the sales side of the business and
local cable and ultimately worked my way into Turner Broadcasting
as an account executive in about nineteen eighty seven and
started my career the WTBS superstation, and at that point
we had Braves baseball and NASCAR and some SEC college football,
(04:08):
and I started selling sports and then created the first
ever Turner Sports division and became head of the division.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
And from there on in it was in love with sports.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
You were the guy.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
It's like David Levy and sports media hand in hand.
I even knew that when I came into the business,
So I won't tell you I was born in nineteen
eighty four because I was and just talking about coming
into the industry. When you went into cable, I joined
the industry in two thousand and seven where digital was
the thing. You had the choice between AOL and Yahoo,
(04:40):
and so just kind of seeing the evolution right from
cable to digital and now to the proliferation of everything.
There were limited choices, which may you could argue or
not made the job harder easier. I'd love your just
perspective on the art of selling sport and how over
the thirty two years you were at Turner that evolution
(05:01):
change and maybe in some ways it didn't.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
It didn't. I mean, what comes around goes around. And
as new platforms get launched, what do people launch new
platforms with. They launch it with sports properties because sports
has built in fan bases, destination programming, and it's the
ultimate drama. And if you have new technology in the beginning,
(05:24):
the people that tend to gravitate towards new technology are
young males, young males eighteen to thirty four, whether they
have a mobile phone or whether they're an iPad, or
whether it's streaming services and things of that nature. All
these things are tested through young males that are testing it,
and young males like sports, so that's where it's sort
(05:46):
of gravitated. And then what you find out is there's
other family viewing and other things that are happening. And
of course now with women's sports and the growth of
women's sports, that's also.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Changing as well. But I will say that for us
in the cable side is a dual revenue stream. We
could actually charge the subscribers and the cable operators more
for the product that we were putting on, and we
could get an increase for our NBA or for our
MLB or for our March madness. Those days are sort
(06:14):
of ending now because the streaming service is sort of
taking that new role and it's now just a subscription business.
But guess what they did. They launched and that's why
I say things come around. They were all commercial free,
right and not anymore, not anymore, so they're having their
own dual revenue stream.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Right different platforms, say Model and the media right side,
particularly women's sports. Inasmuch as I think people generally thirty
thousand feet understand it, I love your perspective on how
do you know what to go after and how do
you value it.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Every company, every brand, every network have different priorities, different agendas,
different culture that I can't speak for each company, and
what I will say is if the question is around
women's sports specifically. Right now, we're in a growth that
we haven't ever seen in almost I can't imagine on
(07:09):
any property.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Is that men's included.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
I would say men's included. Everybody's been waiting for the
sports bubble to burst. And I've said over the years,
and I've done it many years, the bubble isn't bursting.
Where have you ever seen where there's so much fragmentation
going on in the marketplace and yet you still see
sports ratings grow.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
It's the last live frontier, right, but.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
They're growing really, not like it's just sustaining and it's
only dropping five percent or temper by the way, a
show drops five ten percent.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
Now that's a hit.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
The growth in ratings while subscribers are decreasing, and while
the platforms are changing, and you know, sometimes it's hard.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
To find where the show actually is on.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
And the reason for it is a multitude of situations
or a multitude of answers here.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
First, I would say it's live.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
People have a passion, there's fan bases, and there's still
loyalty to the sports itself. Second, I would say, is
sports betting. We used to turn off a game. In
the fourth quarter for an NFL game, if it was
a thirty point blowout, you may now stay on because
your running back needs to get one hundred yards, or
(08:20):
your quarterback needs to throw three hundred or you place
the bet in the fourth quarter that they would come
back and win the game or something.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
And that's in every sport.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
So you're seeing ratings increase, and therefore you're seeing sports
rights continue to increase.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
And I said on the women's side, there's no charity here.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Like if you're sitting in my old executive seat and
you're looking to acquire sports properties, you're not going to
look at the WNBA or Unrivaled or NWSL or some
of these new volleyball leagues. You're not doing it because
you know what I think we should do it. It's
the right thing to do. You're doing it because there's
a good ROI against it. Now are there, Fans are there,
(09:02):
Advertisers are shifting dollars. It's certainly still small relative to
the men's market, but it's growing in the triple digital
hundred percent, one hundred and fifty percent increasing in sponsorship
dollars from twenty three to twenty four. You know, I
think there's you know, close to two hundred and twenty
four million versus one hundred and three that a year before,
you know, in three to four Right, You know what
(09:24):
I'm hearing in the marketplace that these media companies now
want to find quality women's sports. They want to put
it on because the advertisers are demanding it.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
Well, yeah, and I think that's the big key, right,
is like advertisers putting their thumb on the scale where
it's no longer about getting a bonus line item, it's
actually directing dollars intentionally a couple things that I'd love,
just because your expertise in this space. One of the
reasons why I believe women's sports has broken through despite
still lack of I would say sufficient coverage, lack of
(09:55):
sufficient storytelling, is because these women have leveraged their social
platform Buy and Large to develop their audience directly effectively,
and then that audience is converting to viewership. But I
think that is putting pressure on the fact that this
audience is coming. The thing that I still believe is
missing to your point earlier in the fragmentation tune in
is abysmal promotion of knowing one where and how to
(10:20):
access games still rudimentary at best. Why do we need
the networks to do more effectively? Because I believe those
numbers can go up. If you build it, they will come,
but they don't even know where to find it.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
So your thoughts on that.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
That's not just a challenge for women, it's to challenge
for men also, And it's a challenge of what has
been happening in the fragmentation of the marketplace and the
demand that maybe the owners or the leagues are looking
for as far as getting increases in pricing. So I
guess I would say this and maybe the NFL is
the one property that I would say can be on
(10:58):
multi platforms and people are just going to figure out
how to find them because of all the betting and
the fantasy people sent to search and find those games.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
But one of the things that.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
We did with our partners and the League of Unrivaled,
you know, as we're invested hs AND's an investor in Unrivaled,
but we also did their media rights for them with WBD,
And when we were out in the marketplace kind of
seeing who'd wanted, we had a bunch of distributors that
were very interested in it. We made a conscious decision
(11:31):
to go with one media company, and I would say
with unrivaled there might have been a situation where there
could have been more money, but the focus was that
they had br Bleacher Report BRW as well, they had
House of Highlights and all the Turner networks, and they
were willing to give us prime time on every single game.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
So that's another thing.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
You could know that every Friday, Saturday and Monday night
you were going to get.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Games where to tune in and win, and that.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Is an important factor. Now that's not to say it
doesn't happen in N sports as well. Sometimes you can't
find a Major League Baseball game that should want to watch.
Is it on an RSN? Is on a local station?
Is it on national station? Is on ABC? Is it
on Turner Broadcasting on ESPN? Right, I've seen leagues get challenged.
I mean way back when when I was a turner,
(12:24):
NASCAR moved a lot of their races off of Turner
and off of ESPN and went to Fox. Fox Sports
one had just launched, and they shifted a lot of
their races to these new networks that nobody knew where
they were, and ratings declined dramatically. But they got a
big increase in fee.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Let's pivot into your entrepreneurial era. So you are co CEO.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
You went and launched Horizon Sports, and alongside your partner
Chris will Yep and partnership right with Horizon Media founder
and CEO Bill Koensberg.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
We created I think, a different agency that kind of
blended the best part of brand sponsorships and experiential marketing
with IP property and development.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
Can you explain what that is for our audiences so
they understand the core service?
Speaker 4 (13:24):
Sure?
Speaker 1 (13:25):
So I would say that we divided Chris and I
really two different opportunities.
Speaker 4 (13:30):
His background, which is Momentum.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
He was a CEO of Momentum Sports, which is the
largest sports marketing agency in the world under IPG, and
he was a CEO there for fifteen plus years and
did a tremendous job in building out that agency. And
that's what he's sort of managing today here at HS.
And he's managing all of our brand consulting and experiential
(13:53):
marketing and activation which is Proximo, right, PayPal and Venmo,
Verizon and doing all of their brand sponsorships that they
have with the leagues and teams. And then activating at
the tracks at different arenas and things of that nature.
What I'm managing and monitoring through is our IP, our
ownership and creation of IP. So we have to pick
(14:15):
a ball slam. We've done three of them now. The
first one was Agacy, Macenroe, Rodick and Chang.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
So pick a ball is not a fad like in
your opinion, this is growing. It's here to stay even
though it's been around for a long time. But I
mean in breaking through the culturals, I guess yeah, No.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
What I would say what HS and E created is
what I would call destination programming, appointment viewing. We're not
really in the major league pick a ball business, right.
What we did is we took the biggest brand names
in racket sports Macenroe, Agacy, Rodick and Chang. And the
second one was Stephie and Ria share a Pova with
(14:51):
Mace and Roe and Agacy, and the third one had
Genie Pschard and Steph and Roddick and so so you're
taking these big brand names and rackets, putting him in
the fastest growing sport in America, which is pickleball, and
putting a million dollar person on it. So they're actually
really playing for something that's very different than do I
think professional pickleball is going to be a television sport?
Speaker 3 (15:14):
Are you creating entertainment right? This is eventizing your IP effectively.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Yeah, but it's not a charity event in the sense
where they're you know, this is they're playing for a
million dollars. It's a million dollar person. It means something
and they have the biggest brand names. So that's IP.
We also have the Sharp Beauty Women's Champions Classic, which
I think there was white space in the marketplace for
early season women's college basketball tournaments. There were a ton
(15:39):
of men's but there really wasn't a dominant women and
so with our partners at Fox, we went and spoke
with Gino at Yukon and said, listen, you should do this.
This is important for women's sports. There's a white space here.
Why isn't there sort of an early season tournament that
means something? And so he committed a five year deal
(16:01):
fantastic to the women Champions Classic. We as HS and E.
We went out and that's part of what's on my
side of the border, if you will. With hs ANDE,
I also managed the entire sales sponsorship division. It goes
out and sells these properties as well as others. We
went out and we were very focused on making sure
that we got a unique title sponsor, not your typical
(16:25):
you know what I would say.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
Once you see most often.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
All State and State Farm, and those are all great
and part of the growth of women's sports as well,
but we wanted to really have a new category. And
so having Sharp Beauty come on as the title sponsor
in this incredible early season tournament meant a lot to
us here at HS and E, meant a lot to Geno,
meant a lot to the tournament itself, and it's hugely successful.
(16:51):
And the activation that we did, which I thought was
very unique in this business was dry bars at the
Barkley Center.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
Yeah, if you could make that permanent, because for the
Liberty Games, this is a service I would use.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
When have you ever seen a drybar ever in an arena?
Speaker 1 (17:05):
And we built these dry bars that a lot of
families used, a lot of women were in there for
twenty thirty minutes.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Yeah, it's fantastic, really.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
Really exciting stuff that's happening there.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
And then, as I said, and when you asked me
about the entrepreneurship, we also represent and we invest in
certain things.
Speaker 4 (17:21):
So we invested in and unrivaled.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
Yeah, let's talk about it, because this was the one
like is it going to hit?
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Will people care about three v? Three?
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Will it get the attention that's needed to succeed. Having
spent one weekend there, I would argue that the answer.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Is yes, yes, and yes.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
So what made you get in and around this format
that was outside of the Olympics, relatively new products, especially
something from a commercial perspective.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Again, from the early stages on, we knew at HSD
we were going to get involved in women's sports.
Speaker 4 (17:56):
We put our money where our mouth is and so forth.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
When this came across my desk and I was approached
to try to help them with their METEA rights and
the launch of this new league, this submerging league, it
was kind of an easy formula to me to take
a look at. I saw the growth when I thought
was going to happen with the WNBA.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
I mean, arguably the thirty six best players in the world.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Yeah, I mean minus one name, Caitlin Clark. You pretty
much had everybody who was the top WNBA player.
Speaker 4 (18:26):
So we knew we had the names on the back
of the Jersey.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
We knew that there was a lot of interest in
women's sports and it was going to be a marketplace
that was going to be pretty competitive to want it.
I liked that they were changing it from a five
on five to three on three because I thought it
would show the athleticism of really what these basketball players
can do.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
And it was also solving a problem, a big problem.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
And the big problem was that these women after the
WNBA ends, they have to go overseas to make their
money and they have to leave their families and their friends.
They have brands that they are being sponsored by, they
have to stop the activations. Right here was a way
we were solving a big problem, a big white space
where to actually have them be able to play in
the United States, come down with their families, spend time
(19:12):
with their children or significant others, and really be able
to grow.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
And work out and be in a competitive league for money.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
And not only that, each player has equity in the league,
which then goes back to what you talked about, Laura
early is they were also because they own equity, because
they have a piece of it.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Yeah, they're incentivized for the growth.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
They're incentivized to post for the league right, and then
the sponsors that came on board, they activated with the players,
so to win win win.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
The depth and breadth of sponsors that came in and
around many advertisers who aren't spending in mainstream sports leagues.
At one point, I feel like everybody was like, there
are a number of other active leagues in market, some
that were more established, not in basketball but outside. And
the only question for a period of weeks that I
(20:02):
would get is can we get an unrivaled? Should we
get it around unrival what's happening with unrivaled? And so
I thought Kirby and the brand team did a brilliant job,
kirb reporter of building a direct consumer product through social media,
dropping player hints and doing these reveals like it's just
something we had never seen. Obviously, the opportunity to that
from scratch, not having to do a carbon copy and
(20:23):
effectively creating your own paths, which I thought was brilliant.
But what I was so blown away by was the
depth and breath, seemingly overnight, of bringing so many yues
incumbents in the space, but so many new ones.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
What was driving it so.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
As part of our relationship with Unrivaled. Not just we
did the media rights, but we also became agency of
record for sponsorship sales. And as we focused as we
did with the WCC Women's champions Classic with Shark Beauty,
we also made an effort to say, listen, let's go
out and find brands that have typically not sponsored sports
(21:00):
and let's build out because unless you get those brands
in women's sports, are just going to be a percentage
off of percentage versus actually throwing new brands into the marketplace.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Yeah, you need non endemics and I love the same.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
However, many brands that have been hand raisers and talking
about Unrivaled as a brand has credibility and success out
of the gate. Because if you're able to bring in
these types of businesses that aren't investing elsewhere, your proof
of concept to then increase that investment.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Yeah, Sophora was one of the first ones we really
really targeted, and to give Unrivaled in their entire team
credit was to figure out ways to incorporate them and
activate them at the arena. And you know that clam room,
which now seems to be moving along into the development
in other places, which is great.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Here a trendsetter David Levy.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Yeah, every game people want to know what the players
were wearing.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
It was a ton of shit.
Speaker 4 (21:53):
Integration fantastic.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
And then Wayfair, who had never really been involved in
any sport what's soever as far as in these women's sports,
became the title sponsor of the arena. And there was
a need for Wayfair too, because all these incredible athletes
were being housed in Miami and wanted to have their
apartments redone and redone to how they wanted to redone.
Speaker 4 (22:17):
So there was a really great connection for.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
That and we were proud to bring those two unique
sponsors to it. And then of course give credit to
Kevin Plank and his entire team at under Armour. What
a great opportunity to jump in on a new league
and have those names on the back of the jerseys
and really build that out. I think that's going to
be an everlasting partnership. And I was excited because you know,
(22:43):
they had choices to make. You know, you don't have
money for everything, and they stepped up and they really
wanted to be a part of the league and the
growth of women's sports. And I think that's going to
turn out to be a big, big opportunity for.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
Them, such a brilliant concept to obviously grow the sport,
certainly a strategic concept to support players in staying home
and not having to go abroad, but it also presented
a really interesting opportunity for brands to pilot women's sports.
And obviously yesterday's price will not be today's price. But
(23:14):
the get in I'm sure there had to be an
incentive for those who might not be ready to spend
the price DAG on a full pro season.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Sure was that part of the discussions.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Yeah, And by the way, I think that's a part
discussion for all women's sports.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
I think the barrier entry is low.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
You know, it's much harder to get into a studio
show or something like that in a men's football, basketball, hockey, baseball,
because there have been long term deals and price gone up.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
And up and up.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
But you know, women's sports is new, the ratings are there.
I think the ROI is going to be tremendous, and
the barrier entry is a little bit easier to get in.
They don't have official blank, official blank, And if you
get in early, which a lot of these sponsors did,
and yes they got good pricing, you know what's going
to happen. There's only so much assets that are available,
(24:06):
and pricing will go up and ratings will go up.
One of the things that I that I noticed which unrivaled.
There wasn't any real dips here. Here's some interesting facts.
It didn't matter which of the six teams played. The
ratings were pretty much online no matter which team was
on the court. You saw a huge growth between regular
season and playoffs.
Speaker 4 (24:26):
So now you know there's a there was more of ype.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
It was growing, Yeah, a desire to see who's going
to win championship. The one tournament was a huge success,
and in fact, I think there's conversations of whether Adam
wants to implement that at All Star weekend and have
got a one on one tournament for his men. So
they did some unique things. I love the rules and
the and the eleven points at the in the end
(24:49):
of the fourth quarter.
Speaker 4 (24:51):
I love the fact that WBD on their own went
commercial free in the fourth quarter.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
You know, had it sponsored by eighteen eight Yeah, search
each Your point way back earlier is what are these
media companies need to do and how do you market?
It's things like that, it's being innovative around properties that
you know are going to be successful.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
Well, I love just not taking the traditional playbook and
really designing for the space as opposed to designing for
what people are familiar with. The One benefit of having
superd as a partner in your company is you can
call her up to understand the.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Rules real quick. I was like, so tell me about
this fourth quarter. What are we doing.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
In addition to, you know, obviously the pace what I
loved in going the one week and I was able
to get down with somewhere in mid season sold out environment,
intimate environment, which I actually really loved and appreciate.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Especially in your one.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
You just felt this level of access because the pace
was so fast, the players were so familiar. It just
felt like you were in a space that almost had
tournament like vibes, and that it felt competitive and fast
and you had to get to an outcome while also
feeling very community driven. And even though there was no
one team, I mean, obviously they had team identities, but
(26:15):
not like you're coming from a demo or region adopting quickly.
I saw a lot of Liberty fans that I know
from being a season ticket member last season, so it
clearly became a destination for fans to come and experience.
How do you think about that moving forward? Will unrivaled
move to new markets? What can we expect and what
is the business decision behind that?
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Well, certainly from a cost perspective, having everybody in one
location right without travel and things that nature really helps
a new league and emerging league get off the ground,
so to speak. I do think that the arena was
it felt packed if you were there. We're going to
expand more seats next year.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
The tickets were not cheap and not easy to get
by the way, No, it's a great problem to have.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
There was only eight hundred and seventy five per game,
but we're going to blow out the seats behind the
benches next year. I think that'll also be good for
cameras and things that as.
Speaker 4 (27:07):
It looked a little.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Bubblish on TV, but if you were there, it was
at all And it was also celebrity driven. I mean,
January February March is a good time to go down
to Miami.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Yeah, nobody's complaining about that.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
So you know, we had a good celebrity row and
a lot of celebrity asking for tickets, so that was
all good. But moving forward, I definitely see us taking
this on the road, you know, and moving it into
you know, maybe into Brooklyn, maybe in la maybe in Chicago.
You know, we take a look at who's playing on
what teams, but I think there's going to be some
travel season two because it's nice to get exposure and
(27:40):
people are asking for it. I probably see expansion in
teams as long as the quality doesn't decrease and as
long air quality players like you know, we know pages
coming into the league and we have a good base
of people. Cameron Brink will be back and she was
around but didn't play this year, so there could be
expansion teams. And then do you go overseas and what
(28:02):
do you do there? And there's there's a lot to this.
And then I even think youth is a three on
three something that could happen on youth basketball card totally
and maybe take it to a youth level. So Unrival's
got a lot of unique opportunities. You know, we don't
want to grow too shast and not concentrate on the
main brand, and Alex has done a terrific job in
(28:24):
growing that. That's not really my responsibility day to day,
but certainly we have conversations about it.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Yeah, he's done a fantastic job.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
You know him, and if the FISA is amazing and
beyond it, the three of them have really latched onto
something here and so yes, we have conversations of expansion
of travel and I think travels definitely into year two expansion,
maybe year three, four, who knows, But a lot of
exciting stuff. The good news is you can live with
(28:53):
the WNBA because we're not competitive as far as timing
and so over this.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
Is just feels like a different product altogether. Like I
have to tell I think the three v three and
why I said like the tournament vibes was because of
the intimacy of the environment. The players obviously being super familiar,
but being on new teams, the shit talking, you could
feel the pace and the experience. Whether or not that's
by design, but it just came across in a more
accessible competitive environment. I just thought it was brilliant and
(29:18):
I was glad to be able to experience it firsthand.
Speaker 4 (29:21):
Yeah, it certainly was competitive.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
It wasn't competitive, It wouldn't be a good product right totally.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
Before I let you go, one thing that I would
love to get your perspective on, especially having worked on
the broadcast side for as long as you have, is
the shoulder programming, the ancillary program the storytelling. You know,
I believe women's sports has really struggled from a lack
of telling those stories. And just curious to get your
perspective on perhaps what you've learned from unrivaled the Women's
(29:47):
Basketball Classic that you put on. What are the stories
that are missing and how do you think we can
improve on that moving forward as an industry.
Speaker 4 (29:55):
You know, I think it's each and every year it's growing.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
You got to remember where sit in the last three
years is very different than it was prior to the
last three years, right, totally in our lifetime, did we
ever believe and Laura, be honest, did you ever believe
that the women's finals, semifinals, and finals would out deliver
the men's in NCAA March Madness?
Speaker 3 (30:17):
No? Well, I have to tell you I didn't start
Deep Blue Sports Entertainment because it was a pipe dream.
All the signals were there better than no grow, yes,
and I think we had a lightning in a bottle
situation as you saw this year. The numbers are still up,
but we experienced a cultural phenomenon that you know might
be ones in a generation. We don't know, but yeah,
I mean to the extent to the enthusiasm, to the excitement.
(30:40):
But my God, wasn't right on time.
Speaker 4 (30:42):
Right on time, right?
Speaker 1 (30:43):
And so timing is everything in life, right, And you know,
I'd rather be lucky than good. And when I started
looking at women's sports two and a half years ago,
when Chris and I launched HSNE, you know, it wasn't
as where it is today. So I'm two and a
half years ahead of the next person, right. But what
I will say is this, if you're starting to see
(31:03):
and I am like little things that really.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Pop out to me, what are they?
Speaker 4 (31:09):
I'll tell you a few.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
Number one, Liberty getting a local deal in New York
on Channel five.
Speaker 4 (31:15):
Huge, Like Channel.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Five said, you know what, we want to air Liberty games.
The Dallas Wings just did a local deal WNBA preseason games.
Think about this, Okay, these are the things that are changing,
and no one's doing this because they think it's the
right thing. They're doing it because they're doing because it's
an ROI and they believe it's going to make money
(31:38):
for them. And that's what's will be happening is you're
seeing this shift right now, and let's keep it up.
Let's also understand in the next four years, five years,
what's soccer going to be here in the US.
Speaker 4 (31:51):
Between the Olympics and.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
World Cup everything and Club World Cup that's happening this summer,
there's so much going to be focused around these two sports.
And then listen, I think volleyball is also a really
big opportunity for women.
Speaker 4 (32:05):
I'm a little concerned.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
That there's too many leagues and I don't know if
there's enough quality product for all these leagues right I mean,
one of the reasons why it took as long as
it did, I think for women's college basketball is the
product on the floor wasn't as good as it is today.
And if the product's not good, you're not going to
get both men and females to watch.
Speaker 4 (32:28):
Right now, the product on the floor is good, I.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Will tell you though. As a sidebar, it's interesting.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
I talked to Sue about what the difference makers are
and you know, she has shared, like when she was
in tournament getting into Elie eight final four territory, they
were selling out stadiums too. Just the exposure access wasn't there,
So it is interesting to see the role media.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Has played in it.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
But yeah, arguably you had dominant teams over dynasties and generations.
I mean, obviously, I'm sure there's a reason you went
to chat with Gino to bring them in as the
anchor team for your tournament. But I do think the exposure,
the access through social media, all of these things are colliding.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Well, let's understand, you know social media, you know, the
younger generation Gen zs and millennials and the women are
all over it, and so they're sharing and telling stories
and that's part of it too.
Speaker 4 (33:18):
Not everybody watches a complete game anymore.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
Totally, but there's a reason how the highlights does so well.
Speaker 4 (33:24):
That's right. And by the way, what's happening also is.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
When you're getting a tweet or a hit or somebody's
pinging you that, hey, did you see that the game
is tied one on one, one on one, you know,
Connecticut versus Tennessee, you're going to turn it on tune in, right,
So I think there's tremendous growth going on here.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
They're great signals and I mean, you've seen it all.
So if you tell me, I believe you, And that
means I'll stay in business, which is even better. What
is the most surprising thing you've learned getting in and
around the women's sports space since starting HS and E.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
I would say in the beginning, me recognizing how little
people were spending in women's sports. Yeah, maybe it was
eye open me because I didn't really understand until I
started digging deep into understand which brands and and so forth.
But at the same time, what we do here, you know,
at hssee and a horizon as well. You know, we
(34:18):
try to see that white space and try to see
what the numbers actually say. And the numbers were just
arrows pointing up of what we were seeing in ratings
and in impressions and what was going on.
Speaker 4 (34:31):
Yet I wasn't seeing them.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
Dollars follow that, so I said, you know, at some
point it's going to catch up, right, So I said,
let's start putting our money where our mouth is, and
that's where the women's champions class. Again, by the way,
we have two or three other things we're going to announce.
I love it in the next couple of months that
are going to be eye opening as well into certain
sports that normally you wouldn't be putting your money there.
Speaker 4 (34:53):
But I think there's real opportunity.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
That's great.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
What's one bet you're making in twenty twenty five on
women's sports?
Speaker 1 (35:00):
My bed is that advertiser going to still I think
dollars are going to continue to shift.
Speaker 4 (35:05):
And I said it almost four months ago, and here
it was.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
I said, I'm surprised luxury good items are not involved
with women's sports. And then I saw a coach being
sponsored to doubt draft yet totally, yeah, totally, and there
it was. There, it was right, and I was like,
there it is.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
I mean, seeing fenty Beauty getting in and around the
New York Liberty, no brainer.
Speaker 4 (35:25):
But they're not in sport. You know, they're normally seen.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
They're normally seen on award shows, the Academy Awards, the Oscars,
you know, and you know loreal and but now you're
starting to see these cosmetic companies and high end brands.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
Sports is culture, it's driving culture.
Speaker 4 (35:39):
Sports is culture.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
Well, David Leevy, thank you for sharing so many of
your great insights, and please make sure you saved me
a ticket for next year's Winter Classic. I'm your host.
Laura Krenti, founder and CEO. Of Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment.
Our executive producer is Jesse Katz, and this show is
produced by Ryan Martz along with associate producers Meredith Barnes
and Rachel Zuckerman. Court Side is an Iheartwomen's Sports production
(36:04):
and partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Listen on the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Want more, follow, rate,
and review court Side. Wherever you get your podcasts, and
stay in the game by following us on social media
at Iheartwomen's Sports, and don't forget to subscribe to our newsletter.
In the show notes, thanks for listening. We'll see you
next time. Court Side
Liberty getting a local deal in New York on Channel five,
huge WNBA preseason game.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
All on television.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Think about this, Okay, these are the things that are changing,
and no one's doing this because they think it's the
right thing. They're doing because it's an roo and they
believe it's going to make money for them. Because you're
seeing this shift right now, and let's keep it up.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Welcome back to Courtside, where we break down the business
of women's sports with the people driving its next era.
I'm your host, Laura Karrenty, and today we're talking about power,
perception and what it really takes to shift an entire industry.
My guest is David Levy, former president of Turner Sports,
longtime media executive, and now co founder of Horizon Sports
(00:46):
and Experiences. If you've ever watched the NBA on TNT,
March Madness, or the launch of Bleacher Report, you've seen
his playbook and action, and now he's bringing that same
energy and strategic vision to women's sports conversation. David and
I talk about what's changed in the media sports landscape
since his early days at Turner, why women's sports are
finally being treated as an investment instead of a favor
(01:09):
and how new properties like Unrivaled are rewriting the rules
of engagement on screen and on the court. We get
into the economics, the partnerships, the potential, and yes, the urgency,
because when someone with David Levy's track record says the
business case for women's sports is here now and undeniable,
it's worth listening. Let's get into it, and we are
(01:31):
back in the studio with David Levy. Welcome to court Side.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
Thank you, Laura. Happy to be here and excited to
talk to you today.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Same same, same, And I have to tell you.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
As I was getting ready for today's show, I was like,
when was the first time I met David Levy?
Speaker 2 (01:45):
And you won't remember this, but I do.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Okay, it was at the tow pop up nightclub in
Park City. There was the choice to walk to your
table are Michael B. Jordan's, And I will tell everybody
I went to your.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
Wow, it had to be the Sundance Film Festival that
we were there.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Right, it was, Yeah, we were there for the Sundance Festival.
But that was my first interaction. You were lovely and
then I think you got out of there before it
got crazy, and I respected that it's.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Known as the Levy tuck n' roll.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Yes, I get out before I get out before it
gets bad.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
So excited to talk to you today because you have
literally seen, i think probably every modern iteration of where
sports and entertainment is today. But I want to go
back to the beginning, even pre your time leading the
charge at Turner, and just curious to know when did
you fall in love with sports?
Speaker 4 (02:36):
You know, it's been a passion of mine.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
I've played hockey for over twenty five years, played at
college club hockey at Syracuse. Was always involved in hockey, baseball, soccer,
and my sister was athletic, my mother was athletic, So
that's just been a part of our history.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
So Syracuse hockey. And then where do you jump from identity.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
Involved in the media business.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
I work an intern and ship up at Syracuse at
an advertising agency called Oakmont Advertising. Came down from Syracuse
after graduating and worked at an agency called SSCNB. I
was an assistant media buyer under the Gary Carr, who
was my boss's boss, and Elizabeth O'Brien and I bought
(03:19):
advertising for Heineken and Cover Girl makeup, and I was
put on the cable business back in nineteen eighty four,
which there wasn't a lot of real dollars dumping into
the cable business. But at that point I got I
fell in love with the cable business because I had
to learn it and it was only about eight cable
channels back then. It was superstation WTBS and MTV and
(03:44):
USA Network and Nashville Network.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Fell in love with the cable business.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Then went on the sales side of the business and
local cable and ultimately worked my way into Turner Broadcasting
as an account executive in about nineteen eighty seven and
started my career the WTBS superstation, and at that point
we had Braves baseball and NASCAR and some SEC college football,
(04:08):
and I started selling sports and then created the first
ever Turner Sports division and became head of the division.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
And from there on in it was in love with sports.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
You were the guy.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
It's like David Levy and sports media hand in hand.
I even knew that when I came into the business,
So I won't tell you I was born in nineteen
eighty four because I was and just talking about coming
into the industry. When you went into cable, I joined
the industry in two thousand and seven where digital was
the thing. You had the choice between AOL and Yahoo,
(04:40):
and so just kind of seeing the evolution right from
cable to digital and now to the proliferation of everything.
There were limited choices, which may you could argue or
not made the job harder easier. I'd love your just
perspective on the art of selling sport and how over
the thirty two years you were at Turner that evolution
(05:01):
change and maybe in some ways it didn't.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
It didn't. I mean, what comes around goes around. And
as new platforms get launched, what do people launch new
platforms with. They launch it with sports properties because sports
has built in fan bases, destination programming, and it's the
ultimate drama. And if you have new technology in the beginning,
(05:24):
the people that tend to gravitate towards new technology are
young males, young males eighteen to thirty four, whether they
have a mobile phone or whether they're an iPad, or
whether it's streaming services and things of that nature. All
these things are tested through young males that are testing it,
and young males like sports, so that's where it's sort
(05:46):
of gravitated. And then what you find out is there's
other family viewing and other things that are happening. And
of course now with women's sports and the growth of
women's sports, that's also.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Changing as well. But I will say that for us
in the cable side is a dual revenue stream. We
could actually charge the subscribers and the cable operators more
for the product that we were putting on, and we
could get an increase for our NBA or for our
MLB or for our March madness. Those days are sort
(06:14):
of ending now because the streaming service is sort of
taking that new role and it's now just a subscription business.
But guess what they did. They launched and that's why
I say things come around. They were all commercial free,
right and not anymore, not anymore, so they're having their
own dual revenue stream.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
Right different platforms, say Model and the media right side,
particularly women's sports. Inasmuch as I think people generally thirty
thousand feet understand it, I love your perspective on how
do you know what to go after and how do
you value it.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Every company, every brand, every network have different priorities, different agendas,
different culture that I can't speak for each company, and
what I will say is if the question is around
women's sports specifically. Right now, we're in a growth that
we haven't ever seen in almost I can't imagine on
(07:09):
any property.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Is that men's included.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
I would say men's included. Everybody's been waiting for the
sports bubble to burst. And I've said over the years,
and I've done it many years, the bubble isn't bursting.
Where have you ever seen where there's so much fragmentation
going on in the marketplace and yet you still see
sports ratings grow.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
It's the last live frontier, right, but.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
They're growing really, not like it's just sustaining and it's
only dropping five percent or temper by the way, a
show drops five ten percent.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
Now that's a hit.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
The growth in ratings while subscribers are decreasing, and while
the platforms are changing, and you know, sometimes it's hard.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
To find where the show actually is on.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
And the reason for it is a multitude of situations
or a multitude of answers here.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
First, I would say it's live.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
People have a passion, there's fan bases, and there's still
loyalty to the sports itself. Second, I would say, is
sports betting. We used to turn off a game. In
the fourth quarter for an NFL game, if it was
a thirty point blowout, you may now stay on because
your running back needs to get one hundred yards, or
(08:20):
your quarterback needs to throw three hundred or you place
the bet in the fourth quarter that they would come
back and win the game or something.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
And that's in every sport.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
So you're seeing ratings increase, and therefore you're seeing sports
rights continue to increase.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
And I said on the women's side, there's no charity here.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Like if you're sitting in my old executive seat and
you're looking to acquire sports properties, you're not going to
look at the WNBA or Unrivaled or NWSL or some
of these new volleyball leagues. You're not doing it because
you know what I think we should do it. It's
the right thing to do. You're doing it because there's
a good ROI against it. Now are there, Fans are there,
(09:02):
Advertisers are shifting dollars. It's certainly still small relative to
the men's market, but it's growing in the triple digital
hundred percent, one hundred and fifty percent increasing in sponsorship
dollars from twenty three to twenty four. You know, I
think there's you know, close to two hundred and twenty
four million versus one hundred and three that a year before,
you know, in three to four Right, You know what
(09:24):
I'm hearing in the marketplace that these media companies now
want to find quality women's sports. They want to put
it on because the advertisers are demanding it.
Speaker 3 (09:34):
Well, yeah, and I think that's the big key, right,
is like advertisers putting their thumb on the scale where
it's no longer about getting a bonus line item, it's
actually directing dollars intentionally a couple things that I'd love,
just because your expertise in this space. One of the
reasons why I believe women's sports has broken through despite
still lack of I would say sufficient coverage, lack of
(09:55):
sufficient storytelling, is because these women have leveraged their social
platform Buy and Large to develop their audience directly effectively,
and then that audience is converting to viewership. But I
think that is putting pressure on the fact that this
audience is coming. The thing that I still believe is
missing to your point earlier in the fragmentation tune in
is abysmal promotion of knowing one where and how to
(10:20):
access games still rudimentary at best. Why do we need
the networks to do more effectively? Because I believe those
numbers can go up. If you build it, they will come,
but they don't even know where to find it.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
So your thoughts on that.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
That's not just a challenge for women, it's to challenge
for men also, And it's a challenge of what has
been happening in the fragmentation of the marketplace and the
demand that maybe the owners or the leagues are looking
for as far as getting increases in pricing. So I
guess I would say this and maybe the NFL is
the one property that I would say can be on
(10:58):
multi platforms and people are just going to figure out
how to find them because of all the betting and
the fantasy people sent to search and find those games.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
But one of the things that.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
We did with our partners and the League of Unrivaled,
you know, as we're invested hs AND's an investor in Unrivaled,
but we also did their media rights for them with WBD,
And when we were out in the marketplace kind of
seeing who'd wanted, we had a bunch of distributors that
were very interested in it. We made a conscious decision
(11:31):
to go with one media company, and I would say
with unrivaled there might have been a situation where there
could have been more money, but the focus was that
they had br Bleacher Report BRW as well, they had
House of Highlights and all the Turner networks, and they
were willing to give us prime time on every single game.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
So that's another thing.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
You could know that every Friday, Saturday and Monday night
you were going to get.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Games where to tune in and win, and that.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
Is an important factor. Now that's not to say it
doesn't happen in N sports as well. Sometimes you can't
find a Major League Baseball game that should want to watch.
Is it on an RSN? Is on a local station?
Is it on national station? Is on ABC? Is it
on Turner Broadcasting on ESPN? Right, I've seen leagues get challenged.
I mean way back when when I was a turner,
(12:24):
NASCAR moved a lot of their races off of Turner
and off of ESPN and went to Fox. Fox Sports
one had just launched, and they shifted a lot of
their races to these new networks that nobody knew where
they were, and ratings declined dramatically. But they got a
big increase in fee.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Let's pivot into your entrepreneurial era. So you are co CEO.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
You went and launched Horizon Sports, and alongside your partner
Chris will Yep and partnership right with Horizon Media founder
and CEO Bill Koensberg.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
We created I think, a different agency that kind of
blended the best part of brand sponsorships and experiential marketing
with IP property and development.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
Can you explain what that is for our audiences so
they understand the core service?
Speaker 4 (13:24):
Sure?
Speaker 1 (13:25):
So I would say that we divided Chris and I
really two different opportunities.
Speaker 4 (13:30):
His background, which is Momentum.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
He was a CEO of Momentum Sports, which is the
largest sports marketing agency in the world under IPG, and
he was a CEO there for fifteen plus years and
did a tremendous job in building out that agency. And
that's what he's sort of managing today here at HS.
And he's managing all of our brand consulting and experiential
(13:53):
marketing and activation which is Proximo, right, PayPal and Venmo,
Verizon and doing all of their brand sponsorships that they
have with the leagues and teams. And then activating at
the tracks at different arenas and things of that nature.
What I'm managing and monitoring through is our IP, our
ownership and creation of IP. So we have to pick
(14:15):
a ball slam. We've done three of them now. The
first one was Agacy, Macenroe, Rodick and Chang.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
So pick a ball is not a fad like in
your opinion, this is growing. It's here to stay even
though it's been around for a long time. But I
mean in breaking through the culturals, I guess yeah, No.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
What I would say what HS and E created is
what I would call destination programming, appointment viewing. We're not
really in the major league pick a ball business, right.
What we did is we took the biggest brand names
in racket sports Macenroe, Agacy, Rodick and Chang. And the
second one was Stephie and Ria share a Pova with
(14:51):
Mace and Roe and Agacy, and the third one had
Genie Pschard and Steph and Roddick and so so you're
taking these big brand names and rackets, putting him in
the fastest growing sport in America, which is pickleball, and
putting a million dollar person on it. So they're actually
really playing for something that's very different than do I
think professional pickleball is going to be a television sport?
Speaker 3 (15:14):
Are you creating entertainment right? This is eventizing your IP effectively.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Yeah, but it's not a charity event in the sense
where they're you know, this is they're playing for a
million dollars. It's a million dollar person. It means something
and they have the biggest brand names. So that's IP.
We also have the Sharp Beauty Women's Champions Classic, which
I think there was white space in the marketplace for
early season women's college basketball tournaments. There were a ton
(15:39):
of men's but there really wasn't a dominant women and
so with our partners at Fox, we went and spoke
with Gino at Yukon and said, listen, you should do this.
This is important for women's sports. There's a white space here.
Why isn't there sort of an early season tournament that
means something? And so he committed a five year deal
(16:01):
fantastic to the women Champions Classic. We as HS and E.
We went out and that's part of what's on my
side of the border, if you will. With hs ANDE,
I also managed the entire sales sponsorship division. It goes
out and sells these properties as well as others. We
went out and we were very focused on making sure
that we got a unique title sponsor, not your typical
(16:25):
you know what I would say.
Speaker 4 (16:27):
Once you see most often.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
All State and State Farm, and those are all great
and part of the growth of women's sports as well,
but we wanted to really have a new category. And
so having Sharp Beauty come on as the title sponsor
in this incredible early season tournament meant a lot to
us here at HS and E, meant a lot to Geno,
meant a lot to the tournament itself, and it's hugely successful.
(16:51):
And the activation that we did, which I thought was
very unique in this business was dry bars at the
Barkley Center.
Speaker 3 (16:57):
Yeah, if you could make that permanent, because for the
Liberty Games, this is a service I would use.
Speaker 4 (17:02):
When have you ever seen a drybar ever in an arena?
Speaker 1 (17:05):
And we built these dry bars that a lot of
families used, a lot of women were in there for
twenty thirty minutes.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Yeah, it's fantastic, really.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
Really exciting stuff that's happening there.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
And then, as I said, and when you asked me
about the entrepreneurship, we also represent and we invest in
certain things.
Speaker 4 (17:21):
So we invested in and unrivaled.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
Yeah, let's talk about it, because this was the one
like is it going to hit?
Speaker 2 (17:28):
Will people care about three v? Three?
Speaker 3 (17:30):
Will it get the attention that's needed to succeed. Having
spent one weekend there, I would argue that the answer.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Is yes, yes, and yes.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
So what made you get in and around this format
that was outside of the Olympics, relatively new products, especially
something from a commercial perspective.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Again, from the early stages on, we knew at HSD
we were going to get involved in women's sports.
Speaker 4 (17:56):
We put our money where our mouth is and so forth.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
When this came across my desk and I was approached
to try to help them with their METEA rights and
the launch of this new league, this submerging league, it
was kind of an easy formula to me to take
a look at. I saw the growth when I thought
was going to happen with the WNBA.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
I mean, arguably the thirty six best players in the world.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Yeah, I mean minus one name, Caitlin Clark. You pretty
much had everybody who was the top WNBA player.
Speaker 4 (18:26):
So we knew we had the names on the back
of the Jersey.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
We knew that there was a lot of interest in
women's sports and it was going to be a marketplace
that was going to be pretty competitive to want it.
I liked that they were changing it from a five
on five to three on three because I thought it
would show the athleticism of really what these basketball players
can do.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
And it was also solving a problem, a big problem.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
And the big problem was that these women after the
WNBA ends, they have to go overseas to make their
money and they have to leave their families and their friends.
They have brands that they are being sponsored by, they
have to stop the activations. Right here was a way
we were solving a big problem, a big white space
where to actually have them be able to play in
the United States, come down with their families, spend time
(19:12):
with their children or significant others, and really be able
to grow.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
And work out and be in a competitive league for money.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
And not only that, each player has equity in the league,
which then goes back to what you talked about, Laura
early is they were also because they own equity, because
they have a piece of it.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
Yeah, they're incentivized for the growth.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
They're incentivized to post for the league right, and then
the sponsors that came on board, they activated with the players,
so to win win win.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
The depth and breadth of sponsors that came in and
around many advertisers who aren't spending in mainstream sports leagues.
At one point, I feel like everybody was like, there
are a number of other active leagues in market, some
that were more established, not in basketball but outside. And
the only question for a period of weeks that I
(20:02):
would get is can we get an unrivaled? Should we
get it around unrival what's happening with unrivaled? And so
I thought Kirby and the brand team did a brilliant job,
kirb reporter of building a direct consumer product through social media,
dropping player hints and doing these reveals like it's just
something we had never seen. Obviously, the opportunity to that
from scratch, not having to do a carbon copy and
(20:23):
effectively creating your own paths, which I thought was brilliant.
But what I was so blown away by was the
depth and breath, seemingly overnight, of bringing so many yues
incumbents in the space, but so many new ones.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
What was driving it so.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
As part of our relationship with Unrivaled. Not just we
did the media rights, but we also became agency of
record for sponsorship sales. And as we focused as we
did with the WCC Women's champions Classic with Shark Beauty,
we also made an effort to say, listen, let's go
out and find brands that have typically not sponsored sports
(21:00):
and let's build out because unless you get those brands
in women's sports, are just going to be a percentage
off of percentage versus actually throwing new brands into the marketplace.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
Yeah, you need non endemics and I love the same.
Speaker 3 (21:13):
However, many brands that have been hand raisers and talking
about Unrivaled as a brand has credibility and success out
of the gate. Because if you're able to bring in
these types of businesses that aren't investing elsewhere, your proof
of concept to then increase that investment.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
Yeah, Sophora was one of the first ones we really
really targeted, and to give Unrivaled in their entire team
credit was to figure out ways to incorporate them and
activate them at the arena. And you know that clam room,
which now seems to be moving along into the development
in other places, which is great.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
Here a trendsetter David Levy.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Yeah, every game people want to know what the players
were wearing.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
It was a ton of shit.
Speaker 4 (21:53):
Integration fantastic.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
And then Wayfair, who had never really been involved in
any sport what's soever as far as in these women's sports,
became the title sponsor of the arena. And there was
a need for Wayfair too, because all these incredible athletes
were being housed in Miami and wanted to have their
apartments redone and redone to how they wanted to redone.
Speaker 4 (22:17):
So there was a really great connection for.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
That and we were proud to bring those two unique
sponsors to it. And then of course give credit to
Kevin Plank and his entire team at under Armour. What
a great opportunity to jump in on a new league
and have those names on the back of the jerseys
and really build that out. I think that's going to
be an everlasting partnership. And I was excited because you know,
(22:43):
they had choices to make. You know, you don't have
money for everything, and they stepped up and they really
wanted to be a part of the league and the
growth of women's sports. And I think that's going to
turn out to be a big, big opportunity for.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
Them, such a brilliant concept to obviously grow the sport,
certainly a strategic concept to support players in staying home
and not having to go abroad, but it also presented
a really interesting opportunity for brands to pilot women's sports.
And obviously yesterday's price will not be today's price. But
(23:14):
the get in I'm sure there had to be an
incentive for those who might not be ready to spend
the price DAG on a full pro season.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Sure was that part of the discussions.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
Yeah, And by the way, I think that's a part
discussion for all women's sports.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
I think the barrier entry is low.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
You know, it's much harder to get into a studio
show or something like that in a men's football, basketball, hockey, baseball,
because there have been long term deals and price gone up.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
And up and up.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
But you know, women's sports is new, the ratings are there.
I think the ROI is going to be tremendous, and
the barrier entry is a little bit easier to get in.
They don't have official blank, official blank, And if you
get in early, which a lot of these sponsors did,
and yes they got good pricing, you know what's going
to happen. There's only so much assets that are available,
(24:06):
and pricing will go up and ratings will go up.
One of the things that I that I noticed which unrivaled.
There wasn't any real dips here. Here's some interesting facts.
It didn't matter which of the six teams played. The
ratings were pretty much online no matter which team was
on the court. You saw a huge growth between regular
season and playoffs.
Speaker 4 (24:26):
So now you know there's a there was more of ype.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
It was growing, Yeah, a desire to see who's going
to win championship. The one tournament was a huge success,
and in fact, I think there's conversations of whether Adam
wants to implement that at All Star weekend and have
got a one on one tournament for his men. So
they did some unique things. I love the rules and
the and the eleven points at the in the end
(24:49):
of the fourth quarter.
Speaker 4 (24:51):
I love the fact that WBD on their own went
commercial free in the fourth quarter.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
You know, had it sponsored by eighteen eight Yeah, search
each Your point way back earlier is what are these
media companies need to do and how do you market?
It's things like that, it's being innovative around properties that
you know are going to be successful.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
Well, I love just not taking the traditional playbook and
really designing for the space as opposed to designing for
what people are familiar with. The One benefit of having
superd as a partner in your company is you can
call her up to understand the.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Rules real quick. I was like, so tell me about
this fourth quarter. What are we doing.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
In addition to, you know, obviously the pace what I
loved in going the one week and I was able
to get down with somewhere in mid season sold out environment,
intimate environment, which I actually really loved and appreciate.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Especially in your one.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
You just felt this level of access because the pace
was so fast, the players were so familiar. It just
felt like you were in a space that almost had
tournament like vibes, and that it felt competitive and fast
and you had to get to an outcome while also
feeling very community driven. And even though there was no
one team, I mean, obviously they had team identities, but
(26:15):
not like you're coming from a demo or region adopting quickly.
I saw a lot of Liberty fans that I know
from being a season ticket member last season, so it
clearly became a destination for fans to come and experience.
How do you think about that moving forward? Will unrivaled
move to new markets? What can we expect and what
is the business decision behind that?
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Well, certainly from a cost perspective, having everybody in one
location right without travel and things that nature really helps
a new league and emerging league get off the ground,
so to speak. I do think that the arena was
it felt packed if you were there. We're going to
expand more seats next year.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
The tickets were not cheap and not easy to get
by the way, No, it's a great problem to have.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
There was only eight hundred and seventy five per game,
but we're going to blow out the seats behind the
benches next year. I think that'll also be good for
cameras and things that as.
Speaker 4 (27:07):
It looked a little.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Bubblish on TV, but if you were there, it was
at all And it was also celebrity driven. I mean,
January February March is a good time to go down
to Miami.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Yeah, nobody's complaining about that.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
So you know, we had a good celebrity row and
a lot of celebrity asking for tickets, so that was
all good. But moving forward, I definitely see us taking
this on the road, you know, and moving it into
you know, maybe into Brooklyn, maybe in la maybe in Chicago.
You know, we take a look at who's playing on
what teams, but I think there's going to be some
travel season two because it's nice to get exposure and
(27:40):
people are asking for it. I probably see expansion in
teams as long as the quality doesn't decrease and as
long air quality players like you know, we know pages
coming into the league and we have a good base
of people. Cameron Brink will be back and she was
around but didn't play this year, so there could be
expansion teams. And then do you go overseas and what
(28:02):
do you do there? And there's there's a lot to this.
And then I even think youth is a three on
three something that could happen on youth basketball card totally
and maybe take it to a youth level. So Unrival's
got a lot of unique opportunities. You know, we don't
want to grow too shast and not concentrate on the
main brand, and Alex has done a terrific job in
(28:24):
growing that. That's not really my responsibility day to day,
but certainly we have conversations about it.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
Yeah, he's done a fantastic job.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
You know him, and if the FISA is amazing and
beyond it, the three of them have really latched onto
something here and so yes, we have conversations of expansion
of travel and I think travels definitely into year two expansion,
maybe year three, four, who knows, But a lot of
exciting stuff. The good news is you can live with
(28:53):
the WNBA because we're not competitive as far as timing
and so over this.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
Is just feels like a different product altogether. Like I
have to tell I think the three v three and
why I said like the tournament vibes was because of
the intimacy of the environment. The players obviously being super familiar,
but being on new teams, the shit talking, you could
feel the pace and the experience. Whether or not that's
by design, but it just came across in a more
accessible competitive environment. I just thought it was brilliant and
(29:18):
I was glad to be able to experience it firsthand.
Speaker 4 (29:21):
Yeah, it certainly was competitive.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
It wasn't competitive, It wouldn't be a good product right totally.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
Before I let you go, one thing that I would
love to get your perspective on, especially having worked on
the broadcast side for as long as you have, is
the shoulder programming, the ancillary program the storytelling. You know,
I believe women's sports has really struggled from a lack
of telling those stories. And just curious to get your
perspective on perhaps what you've learned from unrivaled the Women's
(29:47):
Basketball Classic that you put on. What are the stories
that are missing and how do you think we can
improve on that moving forward as an industry.
Speaker 4 (29:55):
You know, I think it's each and every year it's growing.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
You got to remember where sit in the last three
years is very different than it was prior to the
last three years, right, totally in our lifetime, did we
ever believe and Laura, be honest, did you ever believe
that the women's finals, semifinals, and finals would out deliver
the men's in NCAA March Madness?
Speaker 3 (30:17):
No? Well, I have to tell you I didn't start
Deep Blue Sports Entertainment because it was a pipe dream.
All the signals were there better than no grow, yes,
and I think we had a lightning in a bottle
situation as you saw this year. The numbers are still up,
but we experienced a cultural phenomenon that you know might
be ones in a generation. We don't know, but yeah,
I mean to the extent to the enthusiasm, to the excitement.
(30:40):
But my God, wasn't right on time.
Speaker 4 (30:42):
Right on time, right?
Speaker 1 (30:43):
And so timing is everything in life, right, And you know,
I'd rather be lucky than good. And when I started
looking at women's sports two and a half years ago,
when Chris and I launched HSNE, you know, it wasn't
as where it is today. So I'm two and a
half years ahead of the next person, right. But what
I will say is this, if you're starting to see
(31:03):
and I am like little things that really.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Pop out to me, what are they?
Speaker 4 (31:09):
I'll tell you a few.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
Number one, Liberty getting a local deal in New York
on Channel five.
Speaker 4 (31:15):
Huge, Like Channel.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Five said, you know what, we want to air Liberty games.
The Dallas Wings just did a local deal WNBA preseason games.
Think about this, Okay, these are the things that are changing,
and no one's doing this because they think it's the
right thing. They're doing it because they're doing because it's
an ROI and they believe it's going to make money
(31:38):
for them. And that's what's will be happening is you're
seeing this shift right now, and let's keep it up.
Let's also understand in the next four years, five years,
what's soccer going to be here in the US.
Speaker 4 (31:51):
Between the Olympics and.
Speaker 1 (31:52):
World Cup everything and Club World Cup that's happening this summer,
there's so much going to be focused around these two sports.
And then listen, I think volleyball is also a really
big opportunity for women.
Speaker 4 (32:05):
I'm a little concerned.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
That there's too many leagues and I don't know if
there's enough quality product for all these leagues right I mean,
one of the reasons why it took as long as
it did, I think for women's college basketball is the
product on the floor wasn't as good as it is today.
And if the product's not good, you're not going to
get both men and females to watch.
Speaker 4 (32:28):
Right now, the product on the floor is good, I.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Will tell you though. As a sidebar, it's interesting.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
I talked to Sue about what the difference makers are
and you know, she has shared, like when she was
in tournament getting into Elie eight final four territory, they
were selling out stadiums too. Just the exposure access wasn't there,
So it is interesting to see the role media.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Has played in it.
Speaker 3 (32:50):
But yeah, arguably you had dominant teams over dynasties and generations.
I mean, obviously, I'm sure there's a reason you went
to chat with Gino to bring them in as the
anchor team for your tournament. But I do think the exposure,
the access through social media, all of these things are colliding.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Well, let's understand, you know social media, you know, the
younger generation Gen zs and millennials and the women are
all over it, and so they're sharing and telling stories
and that's part of it too.
Speaker 4 (33:18):
Not everybody watches a complete game anymore.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
Totally, but there's a reason how the highlights does so well.
Speaker 4 (33:24):
That's right. And by the way, what's happening also is.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
When you're getting a tweet or a hit or somebody's
pinging you that, hey, did you see that the game
is tied one on one, one on one, you know,
Connecticut versus Tennessee, you're going to turn it on tune in, right,
So I think there's tremendous growth going on here.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
They're great signals and I mean, you've seen it all.
So if you tell me, I believe you, And that
means I'll stay in business, which is even better. What
is the most surprising thing you've learned getting in and
around the women's sports space since starting HS and E.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
I would say in the beginning, me recognizing how little
people were spending in women's sports. Yeah, maybe it was
eye open me because I didn't really understand until I
started digging deep into understand which brands and and so forth.
But at the same time, what we do here, you know,
at hssee and a horizon as well. You know, we
(34:18):
try to see that white space and try to see
what the numbers actually say. And the numbers were just
arrows pointing up of what we were seeing in ratings
and in impressions and what was going on.
Speaker 4 (34:31):
Yet I wasn't seeing them.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
Dollars follow that, so I said, you know, at some
point it's going to catch up, right, So I said,
let's start putting our money where our mouth is, and
that's where the women's champions class. Again, by the way,
we have two or three other things we're going to announce.
I love it in the next couple of months that
are going to be eye opening as well into certain
sports that normally you wouldn't be putting your money there.
Speaker 4 (34:53):
But I think there's real opportunity.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
That's great.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
What's one bet you're making in twenty twenty five on
women's sports?
Speaker 1 (35:00):
My bed is that advertiser going to still I think
dollars are going to continue to shift.
Speaker 4 (35:05):
And I said it almost four months ago, and here
it was.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
I said, I'm surprised luxury good items are not involved
with women's sports. And then I saw a coach being
sponsored to doubt draft yet totally, yeah, totally, and there
it was. There, it was right, and I was like,
there it is.
Speaker 3 (35:21):
I mean, seeing fenty Beauty getting in and around the
New York Liberty, no brainer.
Speaker 4 (35:25):
But they're not in sport. You know, they're normally seen.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
They're normally seen on award shows, the Academy Awards, the Oscars,
you know, and you know loreal and but now you're
starting to see these cosmetic companies and high end brands.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
Sports is culture, it's driving culture.
Speaker 4 (35:39):
Sports is culture.
Speaker 2 (35:40):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
Well, David Leevy, thank you for sharing so many of
your great insights, and please make sure you saved me
a ticket for next year's Winter Classic. I'm your host.
Laura Krenti, founder and CEO. Of Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment.
Our executive producer is Jesse Katz, and this show is
produced by Ryan Martz along with associate producers Meredith Barnes
and Rachel Zuckerman. Court Side is an Iheartwomen's Sports production
(36:04):
and partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Listen on the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Want more, follow, rate,
and review court Side. Wherever you get your podcasts, and
stay in the game by following us on social media
at Iheartwomen's Sports, and don't forget to subscribe to our newsletter.
In the show notes, thanks for listening. We'll see you
next time. Court Side
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